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Nurses and equivalent pay
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
This really gets me going......
When will the government recognise and acknowledge that nurses are the cornerstone of health care and should be rewarded and paid accordingly.
Without the nurses that looked after myself and treated me in Afghanistan I would have died. Simple.
I am always thankful for nurses and all they do. Thank you. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I agree that they should be rewarded and looked after.
However as one of the biggest employers in the UK, the NHS increasing wages by a relatively small degree results in a massive amount of money needing to be found?
I'm no economics graduate, and I'm sure restructuring away from profit orientated private companies within the service would free some cash, but not enough? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" Though I imagine the "nurses in Afghanistan" are nothing to do with the NHS !!"
In fact a lot of nurses and doctors came from the NHS to help a get training ? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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" Though I imagine the "nurses in Afghanistan" are nothing to do with the NHS !!"
Actually a lot of them are full time NHS on secondment out there.
Some of the top medical professionals in there field ie trauma have all done tours out there and a lot of medical advancements in the NHS today are used to treat patients from lessons learned out their. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Op can I ask you a none loaded question...
In order to fund an increase nurses salary how much extra would you be prepared to pay by the implementation of an increase in income tax and national insurance?  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Op can I ask you a none loaded question...
In order to fund an increase nurses salary how much extra would you be prepared to pay by the implementation of an increase in income tax and national insurance? "
It would not bother me personally whatever it takes.
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"Op can I ask you a none loaded question...
In order to fund an increase nurses salary how much extra would you be prepared to pay by the implementation of an increase in income tax and national insurance? "
Sharp. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Civilians that went out to Afghanistan were paid significantly more than most the soldiers that were out there.
I agree that nurses do a fantastic job, but what kind of renumeration package do you think they should have?
The majority of the public sector have been pretty much limited to a 1% payrise for quite a few years now, and due to changes in pensions some earn less than they did 3,4,5 years ago.
An increase for the NHS should result in an increase across all of the public sector and that is just unaffordable.
No one joins the publuc sector to get rich, unfortunately the government know this.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Op can I ask you a none loaded question...
In order to fund an increase nurses salary how much extra would you be prepared to pay by the implementation of an increase in income tax and national insurance?
It would not bother me personally whatever it takes.
"
Ok not the considered answer I hoped for ..... but in effect basically you acknowledging you'd be happy reducing the amount of disposable income of the vast majority of working people in Britain in order to fund an increase in the salary of nurses,,,
Is that correct or did you see it in a different way? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Stop paying millions in bonuses to management would help. Millions are paid to managers in the NHS every year, for achieving 'targets'. Targets that the frontline staff work to achieve. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Op can I ask you a none loaded question...
In order to fund an increase nurses salary how much extra would you be prepared to pay by the implementation of an increase in income tax and national insurance?
It would not bother me personally whatever it takes.
"
When your at bastion and the incoming mert alarm goes off every five minutes and the dying and injured are being flown in and there are fleets of ambulances waiting to treat them as soon as they land,your thankful they are there. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Op can I ask you a none loaded question...
In order to fund an increase nurses salary how much extra would you be prepared to pay by the implementation of an increase in income tax and national insurance?
It would not bother me personally whatever it takes.
Ok not the considered answer I hoped for ..... but in effect basically you acknowledging you'd be happy reducing the amount of disposable income of the vast majority of working people in Britain in order to fund an increase in the salary of nurses,,,
Is that correct or did you see it in a different way? "
I think it's twofold Soxy. If it's a simple case of increasing my contribution to increase their pay alone? Mmm so of us aren't that altruistic.
But couple that with a better service too? Yes I'd pay quite a bit more. |
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By *rwolfMan
over a year ago
bristol |
" Though I imagine the "nurses in Afghanistan" are nothing to do with the NHS !!"
during the Afghanistan war there was a huge collaboration of both military nurses and NHS ones.... this was due to the cut backs made by the government to the army medical corp.
Also I will add that during the same war, medical staff like myself volunteered our time to assist in bringing troops back home....if anything we were 99% NHS trained.
the NHS is failing due to there being to many board members taking ridiculous saleries to sit and say the ground staff "need more training".... no we need more funding...
if 1 board member who earns 100,000k per year quits, that is 4 decent nurses working hard... 4 paramedics, 2 ambulances.
a few years ago 2 nurses worked out if every premier league footballer donated 1 weeks wage, they could fund a hospital for a year.....only a small percentage said yes... a little pause for thought there |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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" Though I imagine the "nurses in Afghanistan" are nothing to do with the NHS !!
during the Afghanistan war there was a huge collaboration of both military nurses and NHS ones.... this was due to the cut backs made by the government to the army medical corp.
Also I will add that during the same war, medical staff like myself volunteered our time to assist in bringing troops back home....if anything we were 99% NHS trained.
the NHS is failing due to there being to many board members taking ridiculous saleries to sit and say the ground staff "need more training".... no we need more funding...
if 1 board member who earns 100,000k per year quits, that is 4 decent nurses working hard... 4 paramedics, 2 ambulances.
a few years ago 2 nurses worked out if every premier league footballer donated 1 weeks wage, they could fund a hospital for a year.....only a small percentage said yes... a little pause for thought there"
Even maybe the members of Parliament who all got a fat cat pay rise should have elected to defer it and instead give it to the nursing profession! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Op can I ask you a none loaded question...
In order to fund an increase nurses salary how much extra would you be prepared to pay by the implementation of an increase in income tax and national insurance?
It would not bother me personally whatever it takes.
Ok not the considered answer I hoped for ..... but in effect basically you acknowledging you'd be happy reducing the amount of disposable income of the vast majority of working people in Britain in order to fund an increase in the salary of nurses,,,
Is that correct or did you see it in a different way?
I think it's twofold Soxy. If it's a simple case of increasing my contribution to increase their pay alone? Mmm so of us aren't that altruistic.
But couple that with a better service too? Yes I'd pay quite a bit more. "
I guess in many cases having the ability to be actively altruistic depends on the income and financial circumstances of each family and each individual.... |
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"Op can I ask you a none loaded question...
In order to fund an increase nurses salary how much extra would you be prepared to pay by the implementation of an increase in income tax and national insurance? "
Cut foreign aid. Pay them from that. Stop elective surgery that we all pay for as well. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Op can I ask you a none loaded question...
In order to fund an increase nurses salary how much extra would you be prepared to pay by the implementation of an increase in income tax and national insurance?
Cut foreign aid. Pay them from that. Stop elective surgery that we all pay for as well."
Here here well said  |
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We hear this all the time that the nhs is at breaking point, insufficient funds to run key services and insufficient staff coming through to replace those leaving..
By the sounds of it, the service is dying on its feet..
So the alternative is a private medical service that you pay for..
Medical insurance which is based upon how healthy you are, so those with an unhealthy lifestyle; smokers,drinkers, those that are overweight, will all pay a premium for it.. The rest of us will still have to pay a considerable amount more for a healt plan than we pay now for the nhs. Of course this isn't even considering those that could never afford insurance for all their family members, that decision of who not to insure..
The nhs does a Stirling job for the small amount we pay into it and I am all for an increase in NI contributions to help keep it running.. |
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"This really gets me going......
When will the government recognise and acknowledge that nurses are the cornerstone of health care and should be rewarded and paid accordingly.
Without the nurses that looked after myself and treated me in Afghanistan I would have died. Simple.
I am always thankful for nurses and all they do. Thank you. "
They won't. Lives don't matter. It may not be said outright but lives don't matter. One soldier dies another takes his place. One nurse leaves others - even cheaper - take their place. Money above everything.
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Op can I ask you a none loaded question...
In order to fund an increase nurses salary how much extra would you be prepared to pay by the implementation of an increase in income tax and national insurance?
Cut foreign aid. Pay them from that. Stop elective surgery that we all pay for as well."
Far be it for me to dissect the credibility of any financial probability such action would be sufficiently effective in implementing a significant and sustainable solution .....So I'll just have presume your suggestion is based on a costed plan that would provide an effective and sustainable solution .... |
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"Op can I ask you a none loaded question...
In order to fund an increase nurses salary how much extra would you be prepared to pay by the implementation of an increase in income tax and national insurance?
Cut foreign aid. Pay them from that. Stop elective surgery that we all pay for as well.
Far be it for me to dissect the credibility of any financial probability such action would be sufficiently effective in implementing a significant and sustainable solution .....So I'll just have presume your suggestion is based on a costed plan that would provide an effective and sustainable solution .... "
Its got to help hasn't it? I can't see the justification in sending cash to a country that runs it's own space program for example. |
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So basically nobody has any better ideas than robbing peter to pay paul.
The real problem is the anemic growth rates of the economy, which is still below it's 2008 peak by the way and an eye watering national debt, which has gone up not down since 2008. Until anyway has some bright ideas about those problems then this is just cloud talk despite the fact that i personally feel nurses and soldiers are the two most chronically underpaid groups in the economy. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"This really gets me going......
When will the government recognise and acknowledge that nurses are the cornerstone of health care and should be rewarded and paid accordingly.
Without the nurses that looked after myself and treated me in Afghanistan I would have died. Simple.
I am always thankful for nurses and all they do. Thank you.
They won't. Lives don't matter. It may not be said outright but lives don't matter. One soldier dies another takes his place. One nurse leaves others - even cheaper - take their place. Money above everything.
"
Spot on  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Op can I ask you a none loaded question...
In order to fund an increase nurses salary how much extra would you be prepared to pay by the implementation of an increase in income tax and national insurance?
Cut foreign aid. Pay them from that. Stop elective surgery that we all pay for as well.
Far be it for me to dissect the credibility of any financial probability such action would be sufficiently effective in implementing a significant and sustainable solution .....So I'll just have presume your suggestion is based on a costed plan that would provide an effective and sustainable solution ....
Its got to help hasn't it? I can't see the justification in sending cash to a country that runs it's own space program for example. "
Sighting one example of in appropriate overseas aid doesn't justify ignoring the plight endured by many people around the world whose circumstances are no fault of their own.....
But yes indeed any wasteful money squandering that could be done should but the total value of raising funds by stopping overseas aid is an infinitesimally small amount compared to the shortfall required to placate the deficiencies in the provision ideal NHS services in this country ... |
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"Op can I ask you a none loaded question...
In order to fund an increase nurses salary how much extra would you be prepared to pay by the implementation of an increase in income tax and national insurance?
Cut foreign aid. Pay them from that. Stop elective surgery that we all pay for as well.
Far be it for me to dissect the credibility of any financial probability such action would be sufficiently effective in implementing a significant and sustainable solution .....So I'll just have presume your suggestion is based on a costed plan that would provide an effective and sustainable solution ....
Its got to help hasn't it? I can't see the justification in sending cash to a country that runs it's own space program for example.
Sighting one example of in appropriate overseas aid doesn't justify ignoring the plight endured by many people around the world whose circumstances are no fault of their own.....
But yes indeed any wasteful money squandering that could be done should but the total value of raising funds by stopping overseas aid is an infinitesimally small amount compared to the shortfall required to placate the deficiencies in the provision ideal NHS services in this country ... "
Surely nurses can get a good pay rise when the NHS get an extra £350m a week in 2 years? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"This really gets me going......
When will the government recognise and acknowledge that nurses are the cornerstone of health care and should be rewarded and paid accordingly.
Without the nurses that looked after myself and treated me in Afghanistan I would have died. Simple.
I am always thankful for nurses and all they do. Thank you.
They won't. Lives don't matter. It may not be said outright but lives don't matter. One soldier dies another takes his place. One nurse leaves others - even cheaper - take their place. Money above everything.
Spot on "
This country used to be called great Britain - seems that the great is no longer. Change it to corrupt Britain. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Op can I ask you a none loaded question...
In order to fund an increase nurses salary how much extra would you be prepared to pay by the implementation of an increase in income tax and national insurance?
Cut foreign aid. Pay them from that. Stop elective surgery that we all pay for as well.
Far be it for me to dissect the credibility of any financial probability such action would be sufficiently effective in implementing a significant and sustainable solution .....So I'll just have presume your suggestion is based on a costed plan that would provide an effective and sustainable solution ....
Its got to help hasn't it? I can't see the justification in sending cash to a country that runs it's own space program for example.
Sighting one example of in appropriate overseas aid doesn't justify ignoring the plight endured by many people around the world whose circumstances are no fault of their own.....
But yes indeed any wasteful money squandering that could be done should but the total value of raising funds by stopping overseas aid is an infinitesimally small amount compared to the shortfall required to placate the deficiencies in the provision ideal NHS services in this country ...
Surely nurses can get a good pay rise when the NHS get an extra £350m a week in 2 years? "
haha,, well lets keep our fingers crossed  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
A story from a few years ago when i worked for the nhs.
A junior Dr in a&e had a child come in very very sick! Both parents there and saw the Dr struggle to keep that child alive (it had meningococcal meningitis) luckily the child lived, in general conversation it got onto wages as the Dr had finished shift but stayed in her team as most do. The father earned £47k being a manager at a supermarket je was shocked the junior Dr who picked up the child's condition was only paid £28k and the nurse £24k.
The CEO of the trust is on about £120k why? And why is a manager of a supermarket on £47k yet our government only reward invaluable staff with 1% to me that screams your children and there care isnt a important enough issue and a life doesn't matter.
|
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"This really gets me going......
When will the government recognise and acknowledge that nurses are the cornerstone of health care and should be rewarded and paid accordingly.
Without the nurses that looked after myself and treated me in Afghanistan I would have died. Simple.
I am always thankful for nurses and all they do. Thank you.
They won't. Lives don't matter. It may not be said outright but lives don't matter. One soldier dies another takes his place. One nurse leaves others - even cheaper - take their place. Money above everything.
Spot on
This country used to be called great Britain - seems that the great is no longer. Change it to corrupt Britain. "
Great refers to a geographic area as in 'greater britain'. Exactly the same as "Greater Manchester Police" - does anyone get confused and think Manchester have an especially epic police force? |
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"A story from a few years ago when i worked for the nhs.
A junior Dr in a&e had a child come in very very sick! Both parents there and saw the Dr struggle to keep that child alive (it had meningococcal meningitis) luckily the child lived, in general conversation it got onto wages as the Dr had finished shift but stayed in her team as most do. The father earned £47k being a manager at a supermarket je was shocked the junior Dr who picked up the child's condition was only paid £28k and the nurse £24k.
The CEO of the trust is on about £120k why? And why is a manager of a supermarket on £47k yet our government only reward invaluable staff with 1% to me that screams your children and there care isnt a important enough issue and a life doesn't matter.
"
You know there was a country where the government determined all wages according to the kind of criteria you set out... it didn't work out very well |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"This country used to be called great Britain - seems that the great is no longer. Change it to corrupt Britain.
Great refers to a geographic area as in 'greater britain'. Exactly the same as "Greater Manchester Police" - does anyone get confused and think Manchester have an especially epic police force? "
Now that how to deliver an forum uppercut....  |
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It is worth remembering that pretty much all NHS staff other than Drs are on the same Agenda for Change T&Cs and therefore the same payscales as nurses. So physiotherapists, radiographers, Operating Department? Practitioners, pharmacists, administrators, managers, HR, accountants, IT....all are subjected to the same real term salary cuts. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
All health care professionals do a dammed hard job..
Wages through out the health care sector i feel are low..
Every member of staff are valued. Without domestic staff/laundry/HCA's the nurses/doctors would have an even more difficult job. We all count
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The full AfC payscales are here if you are interested. A Staff Nurse will start at the bottom of Band 5
http://www.nhsemployers.org/case-studies-and-resources/2017/03/agenda-for-change-pay-scales-and-points-april-2017 |
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"All health care professionals do a dammed hard job..
Wages through out the health care sector i feel are low..
Every member of staff are valued. Without domestic staff/laundry/HCA's the nurses/doctors would have an even more difficult job. We all count
"
This. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"This really gets me going......
When will the government recognise and acknowledge that nurses are the cornerstone of health care and should be rewarded and paid accordingly.
Without the nurses that looked after myself and treated me in Afghanistan I would have died. Simple.
I am always thankful for nurses and all they do. Thank you.
They won't. Lives don't matter. It may not be said outright but lives don't matter. One soldier dies another takes his place. One nurse leaves others - even cheaper - take their place. Money above everything.
Spot on
This country used to be called great Britain - seems that the great is no longer. Change it to corrupt Britain.
Great refers to a geographic area as in 'greater britain'. Exactly the same as "Greater Manchester Police" - does anyone get confused and think Manchester have an especially epic police force? "
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"All health care professionals do a dammed hard job..
Wages through out the health care sector i feel are low..
Every member of staff are valued. Without domestic staff/laundry/HCA's the nurses/doctors would have an even more difficult job. We all count
"
I've never encountered anyone who would disagree with the points you've raised there |
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"Op can I ask you a none loaded question...
In order to fund an increase nurses salary how much extra would you be prepared to pay by the implementation of an increase in income tax and national insurance?
Cut foreign aid. Pay them from that. Stop elective surgery that we all pay for as well.
Far be it for me to dissect the credibility of any financial probability such action would be sufficiently effective in implementing a significant and sustainable solution .....So I'll just have presume your suggestion is based on a costed plan that would provide an effective and sustainable solution ....
Its got to help hasn't it? I can't see the justification in sending cash to a country that runs it's own space program for example.
Sighting one example of in appropriate overseas aid doesn't justify ignoring the plight endured by many people around the world whose circumstances are no fault of their own.....
But yes indeed any wasteful money squandering that could be done should but the total value of raising funds by stopping overseas aid is an infinitesimally small amount compared to the shortfall required to placate the deficiencies in the provision ideal NHS services in this country ... "
Look after the pennies, (and uk citizens) and the pounds will look after themselves. But really i don't think the "business model" that the NHS was built to cope with is still extant. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Op can I ask you a none loaded question...
In order to fund an increase nurses salary how much extra would you be prepared to pay by the implementation of an increase in income tax and national insurance?
Cut foreign aid. Pay them from that. Stop elective surgery that we all pay for as well.
Far be it for me to dissect the credibility of any financial probability such action would be sufficiently effective in implementing a significant and sustainable solution .....So I'll just have presume your suggestion is based on a costed plan that would provide an effective and sustainable solution ....
Its got to help hasn't it? I can't see the justification in sending cash to a country that runs it's own space program for example.
Sighting one example of in appropriate overseas aid doesn't justify ignoring the plight endured by many people around the world whose circumstances are no fault of their own.....
But yes indeed any wasteful money squandering that could be done should but the total value of raising funds by stopping overseas aid is an infinitesimally small amount compared to the shortfall required to placate the deficiencies in the provision ideal NHS services in this country ...
Look after the pennies, (and uk citizens) and the pounds will look after themselves. But really i don't think the "business model" that the NHS was built to cope with is still extant. "
Indeed Clem..... 1948 population of 50 million whose original NHS service expectation was totally incomparable to a population of 70 million inhabitants whose sense of entitlement exponentially increases year on year ..... |
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By *ander_XMan
over a year ago
Greater Manchester |
Although I agree that nurses should be paid more, from discussing the issues with a couple of relatives who have left the profession, for lower paid jobs, the main issue is staffing levels.
There is a vicious cycle of nurses and midwives wanting to leave the profession because they just don't have enough time to do their job properly. They feel under pressure to cut corners just to get their job done, putting their heads on the line if something goes wrong.
Higher pay isn't the answer to that. |
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It appears that when the NHS reaches crisis point the answer to spend money on governance by performance managers, many of whom have little or no medical knowledge and they are paid salaries commensurate with their peers in other sectors.
The consultant mafia doesn't help either; they push back against change either beneficial or not.
The nurses and junior docs are the grafters at the coal face and yet they are subject to crap wages and long hours and are vilified by the government for speaking out and taking action to effect change.
We cannot let the NHS fail, it is imperative that we keep it. IMHO I think it is all about the extracting money from the populace and a private medical insurance scheme in lieu of the NHS would extract more cash from the working man and woman and put it in the pocket of those who dont need it.
I am a political as IMHO they are all as bad as each other before I am called out.
Would a 10p rise in Income Tax for one month only not affect us greatly but benefit the NHS massively?
Lets fix it its too good an asset to lose.
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"Op can I ask you a none loaded question...
In order to fund an increase nurses salary how much extra would you be prepared to pay by the implementation of an increase in income tax and national insurance?
Cut foreign aid. Pay them from that. Stop elective surgery that we all pay for as well.
Far be it for me to dissect the credibility of any financial probability such action would be sufficiently effective in implementing a significant and sustainable solution .....So I'll just have presume your suggestion is based on a costed plan that would provide an effective and sustainable solution ....
Its got to help hasn't it? I can't see the justification in sending cash to a country that runs it's own space program for example.
Sighting one example of in appropriate overseas aid doesn't justify ignoring the plight endured by many people around the world whose circumstances are no fault of their own.....
But yes indeed any wasteful money squandering that could be done should but the total value of raising funds by stopping overseas aid is an infinitesimally small amount compared to the shortfall required to placate the deficiencies in the provision ideal NHS services in this country ...
Look after the pennies, (and uk citizens) and the pounds will look after themselves. But really i don't think the "business model" that the NHS was built to cope with is still extant.
Indeed Clem..... 1948 population of 50 million whose original NHS service expectation was totally incomparable to a population of 70 million inhabitants whose sense of entitlement exponentially increases year on year ..... "
I'm amazed that the government would rather see me disabled than give me a joint replacement. Yet a mate of mine who's having gender reassignment can have her beard hair laser treatment on the NHS. |
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"Op can I ask you a none loaded question...
In order to fund an increase nurses salary how much extra would you be prepared to pay by the implementation of an increase in income tax and national insurance?
Cut foreign aid. Pay them from that. Stop elective surgery that we all pay for as well.
Far be it for me to dissect the credibility of any financial probability such action would be sufficiently effective in implementing a significant and sustainable solution .....So I'll just have presume your suggestion is based on a costed plan that would provide an effective and sustainable solution ....
Its got to help hasn't it? I can't see the justification in sending cash to a country that runs it's own space program for example.
Sighting one example of in appropriate overseas aid doesn't justify ignoring the plight endured by many people around the world whose circumstances are no fault of their own.....
But yes indeed any wasteful money squandering that could be done should but the total value of raising funds by stopping overseas aid is an infinitesimally small amount compared to the shortfall required to placate the deficiencies in the provision ideal NHS services in this country ...
Look after the pennies, (and uk citizens) and the pounds will look after themselves. But really i don't think the "business model" that the NHS was built to cope with is still extant.
Indeed Clem..... 1948 population of 50 million whose original NHS service expectation was totally incomparable to a population of 70 million inhabitants whose sense of entitlement exponentially increases year on year ..... "
There's nothing special about the NHS anyway, cold hard facts are that there are 57 other countries in the world with universal health care (with destroys the often made american comparison) and NHS is ranked 18th for healthcare by the WHO. Whilst it's true that France (#1) pay more overall, I'd rather pay more and get more out personally. |
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By *ander_XMan
over a year ago
Greater Manchester |
"Op can I ask you a none loaded question...
In order to fund an increase nurses salary how much extra would you be prepared to pay by the implementation of an increase in income tax and national insurance?
Cut foreign aid. Pay them from that. Stop elective surgery that we all pay for as well.
Far be it for me to dissect the credibility of any financial probability such action would be sufficiently effective in implementing a significant and sustainable solution .....So I'll just have presume your suggestion is based on a costed plan that would provide an effective and sustainable solution ....
Its got to help hasn't it? I can't see the justification in sending cash to a country that runs it's own space program for example.
Sighting one example of in appropriate overseas aid doesn't justify ignoring the plight endured by many people around the world whose circumstances are no fault of their own.....
But yes indeed any wasteful money squandering that could be done should but the total value of raising funds by stopping overseas aid is an infinitesimally small amount compared to the shortfall required to placate the deficiencies in the provision ideal NHS services in this country ...
Look after the pennies, (and uk citizens) and the pounds will look after themselves. But really i don't think the "business model" that the NHS was built to cope with is still extant.
Indeed Clem..... 1948 population of 50 million whose original NHS service expectation was totally incomparable to a population of 70 million inhabitants whose sense of entitlement exponentially increases year on year ..... "
Overall population doesn't matter, it's the age of the population that is significant. The biggest pressure on the NHS, by far, is our aging population. |
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"Op can I ask you a none loaded question...
In order to fund an increase nurses salary how much extra would you be prepared to pay by the implementation of an increase in income tax and national insurance?
Cut foreign aid. Pay them from that. Stop elective surgery that we all pay for as well.
Far be it for me to dissect the credibility of any financial probability such action would be sufficiently effective in implementing a significant and sustainable solution .....So I'll just have presume your suggestion is based on a costed plan that would provide an effective and sustainable solution ....
Its got to help hasn't it? I can't see the justification in sending cash to a country that runs it's own space program for example.
Sighting one example of in appropriate overseas aid doesn't justify ignoring the plight endured by many people around the world whose circumstances are no fault of their own.....
But yes indeed any wasteful money squandering that could be done should but the total value of raising funds by stopping overseas aid is an infinitesimally small amount compared to the shortfall required to placate the deficiencies in the provision ideal NHS services in this country ...
Look after the pennies, (and uk citizens) and the pounds will look after themselves. But really i don't think the "business model" that the NHS was built to cope with is still extant. "
It has widened it's scope, and the range of treatments on offer have become more expensive. Hence NICE, but every illness is personal, so accepting you can't get treatment because your one course of drugs could do 100 hip replacements doesn't work.
So the cost will continue to increase. However, we do not pay as much tax here as, for example, Germany and therefore our services are not of the same quality.
But we also don't collect taxes as effectively as we could. The money is in the economy for a better service. We just need to pry it from the closed hands of the super-rich and big corporations, with their clever lawyers and accountants... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Op can I ask you a none loaded question...
In order to fund an increase nurses salary how much extra would you be prepared to pay by the implementation of an increase in income tax and national insurance?
Cut foreign aid. Pay them from that. Stop elective surgery that we all pay for as well.
Far be it for me to dissect the credibility of any financial probability such action would be sufficiently effective in implementing a significant and sustainable solution .....So I'll just have presume your suggestion is based on a costed plan that would provide an effective and sustainable solution ....
Its got to help hasn't it? I can't see the justification in sending cash to a country that runs it's own space program for example.
Sighting one example of in appropriate overseas aid doesn't justify ignoring the plight endured by many people around the world whose circumstances are no fault of their own.....
But yes indeed any wasteful money squandering that could be done should but the total value of raising funds by stopping overseas aid is an infinitesimally small amount compared to the shortfall required to placate the deficiencies in the provision ideal NHS services in this country ...
Look after the pennies, (and uk citizens) and the pounds will look after themselves. But really i don't think the "business model" that the NHS was built to cope with is still extant.
It has widened it's scope, and the range of treatments on offer have become more expensive. Hence NICE, but every illness is personal, so accepting you can't get treatment because your one course of drugs could do 100 hip replacements doesn't work.
So the cost will continue to increase. However, we do not pay as much tax here as, for example, Germany and therefore our services are not of the same quality.
But we also don't collect taxes as effectively as we could. The money is in the economy for a better service. We just need to pry it from the closed hands of the super-rich and big corporations, with their clever lawyers and accountants..."
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"
But we also don't collect taxes as effectively as we could. The money is in the economy for a better service. We just need to pry it from the closed hands of the super-rich and big corporations, with their clever lawyers and accountants..."
And how's that working out for you? |
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By *rwolfMan
over a year ago
bristol |
" Though I imagine the "nurses in Afghanistan" are nothing to do with the NHS !!
during the Afghanistan war there was a huge collaboration of both military nurses and NHS ones.... this was due to the cut backs made by the government to the army medical corp.
Also I will add that during the same war, medical staff like myself volunteered our time to assist in bringing troops back home....if anything we were 99% NHS trained.
the NHS is failing due to there being to many board members taking ridiculous saleries to sit and say the ground staff "need more training".... no we need more funding...
if 1 board member who earns 100,000k per year quits, that is 4 decent nurses working hard... 4 paramedics, 2 ambulances.
a few years ago 2 nurses worked out if every premier league footballer donated 1 weeks wage, they could fund a hospital for a year.....only a small percentage said yes... a little pause for thought there
Even maybe the members of Parliament who all got a fat cat pay rise should have elected to defer it and instead give it to the nursing profession! "
We live in a world where pipes are laid across continents for oil and yet every year we get bono, lenny henry asking to get water to third world countries.. Why?
We live in a world where there is a cure for some cancers and its not in production...why?
For the same reason those in parliament get 11% plus expenses and those on the lowest runs barely get 1%
Those in power dont care as long as they are taken care of...the conservative government has been dismantling the nhs to replace with a system similar to the US which means the rich stay fit and the poor get crippled with debt.
It is very wrong on so many different levels |
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" Though I imagine the "nurses in Afghanistan" are nothing to do with the NHS !!
during the Afghanistan war there was a huge collaboration of both military nurses and NHS ones.... this was due to the cut backs made by the government to the army medical corp.
Also I will add that during the same war, medical staff like myself volunteered our time to assist in bringing troops back home....if anything we were 99% NHS trained.
the NHS is failing due to there being to many board members taking ridiculous saleries to sit and say the ground staff "need more training".... no we need more funding...
if 1 board member who earns 100,000k per year quits, that is 4 decent nurses working hard... 4 paramedics, 2 ambulances.
a few years ago 2 nurses worked out if every premier league footballer donated 1 weeks wage, they could fund a hospital for a year.....only a small percentage said yes... a little pause for thought there
Even maybe the members of Parliament who all got a fat cat pay rise should have elected to defer it and instead give it to the nursing profession!
We live in a world where pipes are laid across continents for oil and yet every year we get bono, lenny henry asking to get water to third world countries.. Why?
We live in a world where there is a cure for some cancers and its not in production...why?
For the same reason those in parliament get 11% plus expenses and those on the lowest runs barely get 1%
Those in power dont care as long as they are taken care of...the conservative government has been dismantling the nhs to replace with a system similar to the US which means the rich stay fit and the poor get crippled with debt.
It is very wrong on so many different levels "
So is your interpretation of how economics works |
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I personally think that nurses and midwifes are not paid enough for what they do and the skills & knowledge that they have and it could be funded by a reduction in the staff at middle management level, and an over priced I T system. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Op can I ask you a none loaded question...
In order to fund an increase nurses salary how much extra would you be prepared to pay by the implementation of an increase in income tax and national insurance?
Cut foreign aid. Pay them from that. Stop elective surgery that we all pay for as well.
Far be it for me to dissect the credibility of any financial probability such action would be sufficiently effective in implementing a significant and sustainable solution .....So I'll just have presume your suggestion is based on a costed plan that would provide an effective and sustainable solution ....
Its got to help hasn't it? I can't see the justification in sending cash to a country that runs it's own space program for example.
Sighting one example of in appropriate overseas aid doesn't justify ignoring the plight endured by many people around the world whose circumstances are no fault of their own.....
But yes indeed any wasteful money squandering that could be done should but the total value of raising funds by stopping overseas aid is an infinitesimally small amount compared to the shortfall required to placate the deficiencies in the provision ideal NHS services in this country ...
Look after the pennies, (and uk citizens) and the pounds will look after themselves. But really i don't think the "business model" that the NHS was built to cope with is still extant.
It has widened it's scope, and the range of treatments on offer have become more expensive. Hence NICE, but every illness is personal, so accepting you can't get treatment because your one course of drugs could do 100 hip replacements doesn't work.
So the cost will continue to increase. However, we do not pay as much tax here as, for example, Germany and therefore our services arecorporations in same quality.
But we also don't collect taxes as effectively as we could. The money is in the economy for a better service. We just need to pry it from the closed hands of the super-rich and big corporations, with their clever lawyers and accountants..."
Well said, instead of getting bonuses for targets the fat cats should have a performance indicator based on filling out a satisfaction survey by their staff, if it scores highly they keep their job.
This would make higher level management work harder to ensure those beneath them get pay rises and terms and conditions that would suit. |
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"Op can I ask you a none loaded question...
In order to fund an increase nurses salary how much extra would you be prepared to pay by the implementation of an increase in income tax and national insurance?
Cut foreign aid. Pay them from that. Stop elective surgery that we all pay for as well.
Far be it for me to dissect the credibility of any financial probability such action would be sufficiently effective in implementing a significant and sustainable solution .....So I'll just have presume your suggestion is based on a costed plan that would provide an effective and sustainable solution ....
Its got to help hasn't it? I can't see the justification in sending cash to a country that runs it's own space program for example.
Sighting one example of in appropriate overseas aid doesn't justify ignoring the plight endured by many people around the world whose circumstances are no fault of their own.....
But yes indeed any wasteful money squandering that could be done should but the total value of raising funds by stopping overseas aid is an infinitesimally small amount compared to the shortfall required to placate the deficiencies in the provision ideal NHS services in this country ...
Look after the pennies, (and uk citizens) and the pounds will look after themselves. But really i don't think the "business model" that the NHS was built to cope with is still extant.
It has widened it's scope, and the range of treatments on offer have become more expensive. Hence NICE, but every illness is personal, so accepting you can't get treatment because your one course of drugs could do 100 hip replacements doesn't work.
So the cost will continue to increase. However, we do not pay as much tax here as, for example, Germany and therefore our services arecorporations in same quality.
But we also don't collect taxes as effectively as we could. The money is in the economy for a better service. We just need to pry it from the closed hands of the super-rich and big corporations, with their clever lawyers and accountants...
Well said, instead of getting bonuses for targets the fat cats should have a performance indicator based on filling out a satisfaction survey by their staff, if it scores highly they keep their job.
This would make higher level management work harder to ensure those beneath them get pay rises and terms and conditions that would suit. "
So basically you've never heard of the agent-principle problem then? |
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The NHS has been suffering because it's had several years of funding cuts in real terms, whilst demands of course have risen. Too much exploring down this route and it means it becomes a topic for the politics board.
I think they've had polls on increased taxes and the public's willingness to pay and most were for it - as I would be. Nurses are a vital element of our health system and many more years' of effective pay decreases will damage the services that we end up with Imo. |
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"The NHS has been suffering because it's had several years of funding cuts in real terms, whilst demands of course have risen. Too much exploring down this route and it means it becomes a topic for the politics board.
I think they've had polls on increased taxes and the public's willingness to pay and most were for it - as I would be. Nurses are a vital element of our health system and many more years' of effective pay decreases will damage the services that we end up with Imo."
I don't really disagree with anything you said there but health (and education) are like buckets with holes in them. Whilst it's true that we don't spend as much as other countries on health, I'm not convinced we'd get the results if we did. When you have ministers who are determined to use health and education as a CV booster then it will always be unstable via change for the sake of change. I think it needs to be better protected from the whims of politicians really. |
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