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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Having read an interesting post on tumblr raising some points about the potential toxicity of holding rigidly to monogamy, I'd be intrigued to hear the views of the forum...
I'm single, so in neither a monogamous or polyamorous relationship -- but for the purposes of discussion, I agree with the points raised.
"What I mean when I say 'toxic monogamy culture':
- the normalization of jealousy as an indicator of love
- the idea that a sufficiently intense love is enough to overcome any practical incompatibilities
- the idea that you should meet your partner’s every need, and if you don’t, you’re either inadequate or they’re too needy
- the idea that a sufficiently intense love should cause you to cease to be attracted to anyone else
- the idea that commitment is synonymous with exclusivity
- the idea that marriage and children are the only valid teleological justifications for being committed to a relationship
- the idea that your insecurities are always your partner’s responsibility to tip-toe around and never your responsibility to work on
- the idea that your value to a partner is directly proportional to the amount of time and energy they spend on you, and it is in zero-sum competition with everything else they value in life
- the idea that being of value to a partner should always make up a large chunk of how you value yourself |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"What you've described sounds like a hugely dysfunctional relationship to me and a very skewed view of love. It could be though that I'm the odd one out."
Perhaps it is! I read it in terms of challenging monogamy as always being the answer (not that I'm suggesting polyamory is, IMO) and I thought it interesting in those terms. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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What do you agree with OP? The points you list may be true in some cases but not all.
They read to me like a Swinger/ cheater with a chip on their shoulder that is trying to give reasons not to be monogamous. Plenty of people are happy in monogamous relationships. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"What you've described sounds like a hugely dysfunctional relationship to me and a very skewed view of love. It could be though that I'm the odd one out.
Perhaps it is! I read it in terms of challenging monogamy as always being the answer (not that I'm suggesting polyamory is, IMO) and I thought it interesting in those terms. "
I guess perhaps by not being in a relationship I'm reading it more around the potential pitfalls of investing in a one person for everything versus getting various things from various people -- thus it's focusing on the potential negativities of monogamy rather than how a monogamous relationship has to be. But yes, I take your point re-looking at it from a slightly different slant. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"What do you agree with OP? The points you list may be true in some cases but not all.
They read to me like a Swinger/ cheater with a chip on their shoulder that is trying to give reasons not to be monogamous. Plenty of people are happy in monogamous relationships. "
Yes, I can see that's how the points can be taken -- it's not what I was thinking about -- and certainly I'm not agreeing with it in terms of a premise that no one is happy in a monogamous relationship! I guess I was thinking more hypothetically around the challenge it gave to me on thinking about the societal pressure to find one person and be with them. |
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"What you've described sounds like a hugely dysfunctional relationship to me and a very skewed view of love. It could be though that I'm the odd one out.
Perhaps it is! I read it in terms of challenging monogamy as always being the answer (not that I'm suggesting polyamory is, IMO) and I thought it interesting in those terms. "
It's not a definition of monogamy really in my opinion but you did say "toxic" monogamy and I suppose that qualifies it. I don't see it's value as a challenge to monogamy as a whole but certainly monogamy on those terms isn't the answer. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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My husband and I have only ever been with each other. I married him with the intention of only ever having one man in my life and while I will love him forever we are keen to explore introducing someone into our relationship longer term.
The limits of monogamy are aparent to us as we grow older. We know who we are but not who we could be with other people. I rely on him to support me fully emotionally and sexually but our circumstances don't allow for him to always be with me physically so to find someone else will only encourage me to become a stronger person I think.
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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago
Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum |
I remain single as I know I cannot remain faithful in a relationship. However, in the relationship with my daughters father, most of the OP did not apply. We were adults and therefore could live together with compromise. I say most of the OP, as he managed to coerce me into being a vegetarian for most of the relationship. The first thing I did when we split up was have a mahoosive steak.  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"What you've described sounds like a hugely dysfunctional relationship to me and a very skewed view of love. It could be though that I'm the odd one out.
Perhaps it is! I read it in terms of challenging monogamy as always being the answer (not that I'm suggesting polyamory is, IMO) and I thought it interesting in those terms.
It's not a definition of monogamy really in my opinion but you did say "toxic" monogamy and I suppose that qualifies it. I don't see it's value as a challenge to monogamy as a whole but certainly monogamy on those terms isn't the answer."
I'll just clarify that from the "what I mean when I say...." onwards it is not my words but a post I read elsewhere. And yes it's talking about the potential toxic pitfalls of monogamy -- not the absolutes of monogamy. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"My husband and I have only ever been with each other. I married him with the intention of only ever having one man in my life and while I will love him forever we are keen to explore introducing someone into our relationship longer term.
The limits of monogamy are aparent to us as we grow older. We know who we are but not who we could be with other people. I rely on him to support me fully emotionally and sexually but our circumstances don't allow for him to always be with me physically so to find someone else will only encourage me to become a stronger person I think.
"
That's really interesting, thank you for sharing. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"What you've described sounds like a hugely dysfunctional relationship to me and a very skewed view of love. It could be though that I'm the odd one out.
Perhaps it is! I read it in terms of challenging monogamy as always being the answer (not that I'm suggesting polyamory is, IMO) and I thought it interesting in those terms.
It's not a definition of monogamy really in my opinion but you did say "toxic" monogamy and I suppose that qualifies it. I don't see it's value as a challenge to monogamy as a whole but certainly monogamy on those terms isn't the answer.
I'll just clarify that from the "what I mean when I say...." onwards it is not my words but a post I read elsewhere. And yes it's talking about the potential toxic pitfalls of monogamy -- not the absolutes of monogamy. "
That makes sense. 
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I remain single as I know I cannot remain faithful in a relationship. However, in the relationship with my daughters father, most of the OP did not apply. We were adults and therefore could live together with compromise. I say most of the OP, as he managed to coerce me into being a vegetarian for most of the relationship. The first thing I did when we split up was have a mahoosive steak. "
But isn't the article suggesting exactly that, that compromise has to occur as one person can't be everything to you (I think perhaps my head has been in an odd place on reading it, but I read it as a challenge to the construct that gets pushed that out one true love sorts it all out...I totally appreciate monogamy works with compromise, hell actually it's the same for polyamory and I'm going in circles!)
More importantly - steak!  |
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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago
Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum |
"I remain single as I know I cannot remain faithful in a relationship. However, in the relationship with my daughters father, most of the OP did not apply. We were adults and therefore could live together with compromise. I say most of the OP, as he managed to coerce me into being a vegetarian for most of the relationship. The first thing I did when we split up was have a mahoosive steak.
But isn't the article suggesting exactly that, that compromise has to occur as one person can't be everything to you (I think perhaps my head has been in an odd place on reading it, but I read it as a challenge to the construct that gets pushed that out one true love sorts it all out...I totally appreciate monogamy works with compromise, hell actually it's the same for polyamory and I'm going in circles!)
More importantly - steak! "
Steak indeed!
I think its the difficulty of deciding whether the original article is talking about monogamy in general, or only about toxic monogamy, which to me sounds like an abusive relationship. The fact that monogamy CAN become toxic does not negate the fact that for many people it is the chosen route to living together happily. |
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"I remain single as I know I cannot remain faithful in a relationship. However, in the relationship with my daughters father, most of the OP did not apply. We were adults and therefore could live together with compromise. I say most of the OP, as he managed to coerce me into being a vegetarian for most of the relationship. The first thing I did when we split up was have a mahoosive steak.
But isn't the article suggesting exactly that, that compromise has to occur as one person can't be everything to you (I think perhaps my head has been in an odd place on reading it, but I read it as a challenge to the construct that gets pushed that out one true love sorts it all out...I totally appreciate monogamy works with compromise, hell actually it's the same for polyamory and I'm going in circles!)
More importantly - steak!
Steak indeed!
I think its the difficulty of deciding whether the original article is talking about monogamy in general, or only about toxic monogamy, which to me sounds like an abusive relationship. The fact that monogamy CAN become toxic does not negate the fact that for many people it is the chosen route to living together happily."
On rereading its talking about the "toxic monogamy culture". That implies to me that the culture of monogamy is toxic and I can't agree with that. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I remain single as I know I cannot remain faithful in a relationship. However, in the relationship with my daughters father, most of the OP did not apply. We were adults and therefore could live together with compromise. I say most of the OP, as he managed to coerce me into being a vegetarian for most of the relationship. The first thing I did when we split up was have a mahoosive steak.
But isn't the article suggesting exactly that, that compromise has to occur as one person can't be everything to you (I think perhaps my head has been in an odd place on reading it, but I read it as a challenge to the construct that gets pushed that out one true love sorts it all out...I totally appreciate monogamy works with compromise, hell actually it's the same for polyamory and I'm going in circles!)
More importantly - steak!
Steak indeed!
I think its the difficulty of deciding whether the original article is talking about monogamy in general, or only about toxic monogamy, which to me sounds like an abusive relationship. The fact that monogamy CAN become toxic does not negate the fact that for many people it is the chosen route to living together happily."
Actually yes. You're right. It's more about toxicity of a relationship.  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I remain single as I know I cannot remain faithful in a relationship. However, in the relationship with my daughters father, most of the OP did not apply. We were adults and therefore could live together with compromise. I say most of the OP, as he managed to coerce me into being a vegetarian for most of the relationship. The first thing I did when we split up was have a mahoosive steak.
But isn't the article suggesting exactly that, that compromise has to occur as one person can't be everything to you (I think perhaps my head has been in an odd place on reading it, but I read it as a challenge to the construct that gets pushed that out one true love sorts it all out...I totally appreciate monogamy works with compromise, hell actually it's the same for polyamory and I'm going in circles!)
More importantly - steak!
Steak indeed!
I think its the difficulty of deciding whether the original article is talking about monogamy in general, or only about toxic monogamy, which to me sounds like an abusive relationship. The fact that monogamy CAN become toxic does not negate the fact that for many people it is the chosen route to living together happily.
On rereading its talking about the "toxic monogamy culture". That implies to me that the culture of monogamy is toxic and I can't agree with that."
It's certainly got me going in circles. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"That kind of monogamy definetly sounds toxic to me"
Yes! As a relationship it does.
The original post was positing the concept of monogamy culture as being toxic because it pushes these kind of views and pressures -- but I swing from going yeah! to going no, that's just a bad relationship! So it's left me ruminating. I do think there are issues with monogamy but then I keep wondering if it's due to my being single I'm framing issues as a coping mechanism....? I need a gin! |
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"I remain single as I know I cannot remain faithful in a relationship. However, in the relationship with my daughters father, most of the OP did not apply. We were adults and therefore could live together with compromise. I say most of the OP, as he managed to coerce me into being a vegetarian for most of the relationship. The first thing I did when we split up was have a mahoosive steak.
But isn't the article suggesting exactly that, that compromise has to occur as one person can't be everything to you (I think perhaps my head has been in an odd place on reading it, but I read it as a challenge to the construct that gets pushed that out one true love sorts it all out...I totally appreciate monogamy works with compromise, hell actually it's the same for polyamory and I'm going in circles!)
More importantly - steak!
Steak indeed!
I think its the difficulty of deciding whether the original article is talking about monogamy in general, or only about toxic monogamy, which to me sounds like an abusive relationship. The fact that monogamy CAN become toxic does not negate the fact that for many people it is the chosen route to living together happily.
On rereading its talking about the "toxic monogamy culture". That implies to me that the culture of monogamy is toxic and I can't agree with that.
It's certainly got me going in circles. "
It's interesting though. I do know people, well one person who would identify with that description.
The problem is some people use extreme examples when they're arguing against something or want to influence others. There are many shades of monogamy I think.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I remain single as I know I cannot remain faithful in a relationship. However, in the relationship with my daughters father, most of the OP did not apply. We were adults and therefore could live together with compromise. I say most of the OP, as he managed to coerce me into being a vegetarian for most of the relationship. The first thing I did when we split up was have a mahoosive steak.
But isn't the article suggesting exactly that, that compromise has to occur as one person can't be everything to you (I think perhaps my head has been in an odd place on reading it, but I read it as a challenge to the construct that gets pushed that out one true love sorts it all out...I totally appreciate monogamy works with compromise, hell actually it's the same for polyamory and I'm going in circles!)
More importantly - steak!
Steak indeed!
I think its the difficulty of deciding whether the original article is talking about monogamy in general, or only about toxic monogamy, which to me sounds like an abusive relationship. The fact that monogamy CAN become toxic does not negate the fact that for many people it is the chosen route to living together happily.
On rereading its talking about the "toxic monogamy culture". That implies to me that the culture of monogamy is toxic and I can't agree with that.
It's certainly got me going in circles.
It's interesting though. I do know people, well one person who would identify with that description.
The problem is some people use extreme examples when they're arguing against something or want to influence others. There are many shades of monogamy I think.
"
That there are! |
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"I remain single as I know I cannot remain faithful in a relationship. However, in the relationship with my daughters father, most of the OP did not apply. We were adults and therefore could live together with compromise. I say most of the OP, as he managed to coerce me into being a vegetarian for most of the relationship. The first thing I did when we split up was have a mahoosive steak.
But isn't the article suggesting exactly that, that compromise has to occur as one person can't be everything to you (I think perhaps my head has been in an odd place on reading it, but I read it as a challenge to the construct that gets pushed that out one true love sorts it all out...I totally appreciate monogamy works with compromise, hell actually it's the same for polyamory and I'm going in circles!)
More importantly - steak!
Steak indeed!
I think its the difficulty of deciding whether the original article is talking about monogamy in general, or only about toxic monogamy, which to me sounds like an abusive relationship. The fact that monogamy CAN become toxic does not negate the fact that for many people it is the chosen route to living together happily.
On rereading its talking about the "toxic monogamy culture". That implies to me that the culture of monogamy is toxic and I can't agree with that.
It's certainly got me going in circles.
It's interesting though. I do know people, well one person who would identify with that description.
The problem is some people use extreme examples when they're arguing against something or want to influence others. There are many shades of monogamy I think.
That there are! "
And therein lies the problem behind many of humanities woes. An inbuilt inability to accept that other people might live their lives differently. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"
It's interesting though. I do know people, well one person who would identify with that description.
The problem is some people use extreme examples when they're arguing against something or want to influence others. There are many shades of monogamy I think.
That there are!
And therein lies the problem behind many of humanities woes. An inbuilt inability to accept that other people might live their lives differently."
Now that I totally agree with!
I'm still trying to get my head around what it was that resonated with me on reading the above commentary. And there's something about the "pressure" or perceived pressure/need to be in monogamous, happy relationships, having babies and saving each other that likely sits far from the healthy reality you're talking about from monogamous relationships, that I was like -- yes!!! I feel this and it *is* toxic -- if that makes sense? That's what I mean, in terms of being a single, childless 40year old female....! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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If you can fall in love with more than one person then surely you should. If you can't then that shows you're naturally monogamous. But if you can why on earth would you not?
I believe everyone has the capacity to fall in love with more than one person, how else would we love all our various family members. As such, this means monogamous people merely don't allow themselves to fall in love with others... that monogamy is an unnatural act of self discipline.
To the monogamous... what could possibly be wrong with loving more than one person? Why the self discipline? Isn't it a zero sum game, played by each partner only because they don't want the other to love anyone else? |
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"
It's interesting though. I do know people, well one person who would identify with that description.
The problem is some people use extreme examples when they're arguing against something or want to influence others. There are many shades of monogamy I think.
That there are!
And therein lies the problem behind many of humanities woes. An inbuilt inability to accept that other people might live their lives differently.
Now that I totally agree with!
I'm still trying to get my head around what it was that resonated with me on reading the above commentary. And there's something about the "pressure" or perceived pressure/need to be in monogamous, happy relationships, having babies and saving each other that likely sits far from the healthy reality you're talking about from monogamous relationships, that I was like -- yes!!! I feel this and it *is* toxic -- if that makes sense? That's what I mean, in terms of being a single, childless 40year old female....!"
That pressure is there I agree but it's only toxic if you allow it to be. In some ways its similar to the pressure applied to women when they have babies to conform to some perfect idea of motherhood. Breastfeed but not for too long, establish a routine, get your figure back, go back to work blah, blah.
Basically if you're content...stuff 'em |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"
It's interesting though. I do know people, well one person who would identify with that description.
The problem is some people use extreme examples when they're arguing against something or want to influence others. There are many shades of monogamy I think.
That there are!
And therein lies the problem behind many of humanities woes. An inbuilt inability to accept that other people might live their lives differently.
Now that I totally agree with!
I'm still trying to get my head around what it was that resonated with me on reading the above commentary. And there's something about the "pressure" or perceived pressure/need to be in monogamous, happy relationships, having babies and saving each other that likely sits far from the healthy reality you're talking about from monogamous relationships, that I was like -- yes!!! I feel this and it *is* toxic -- if that makes sense? That's what I mean, in terms of being a single, childless 40year old female....!
That pressure is there I agree but it's only toxic if you allow it to be. In some ways its similar to the pressure applied to women when they have babies to conform to some perfect idea of motherhood. Breastfeed but not for too long, establish a routine, get your figure back, go back to work blah, blah.
Basically if you're content...stuff 'em"
oh to be content!
But yes, I see what you're saying. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"If you can fall in love with more than one person then surely you should. If you can't then that shows you're naturally monogamous. But if you can why on earth would you not?
I believe everyone has the capacity to fall in love with more than one person, how else would we love all our various family members. As such, this means monogamous people merely don't allow themselves to fall in love with others... that monogamy is an unnatural act of self discipline.
To the monogamous... what could possibly be wrong with loving more than one person? Why the self discipline? Isn't it a zero sum game, played by each partner only because they don't want the other to love anyone else? "
Interesting points |
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"If you can fall in love with more than one person then surely you should. If you can't then that shows you're naturally monogamous. But if you can why on earth would you not?
I believe everyone has the capacity to fall in love with more than one person, how else would we love all our various family members. As such, this means monogamous people merely don't allow themselves to fall in love with others... that monogamy is an unnatural act of self discipline.
To the monogamous... what could possibly be wrong with loving more than one person? Why the self discipline? Isn't it a zero sum game, played by each partner only because they don't want the other to love anyone else? "
Love for your family is not the same as love for your romantic partner though.
Some people genuinely want monogamy, problems arise when they're in a relationship with someone who doesn't. |
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"If you can fall in love with more than one person then surely you should. If you can't then that shows you're naturally monogamous. But if you can why on earth would you not?
I believe everyone has the capacity to fall in love with more than one person, how else would we love all our various family members. As such, this means monogamous people merely don't allow themselves to fall in love with others... that monogamy is an unnatural act of self discipline.
"
No, that's a fallacious argument, loving is not the same as falling in love, and I for one have simply totally lost romantic or sexual interest in everyone else when I love someone, I don't even look, simply don't see lol!. Monogamy is a far more natural state to me, I have to force myself to have more than one partner, even on fab!
Of the OP's list, most are totally foreign to me, and speak of dysfunctional relationships, period, not healthy monogamy!
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The consensus of evolutionary psychologists is that ~70% of the population are predisposed to multiple partners and ~30% are predisposed to monogamy. Of course not everyone has to follow their predisposition but it does consume energy to resist it.
The real problems come from having one half of the relationship predisposed one way and the other being different.
From personal experience the most common arrangement I find amongst non-swingers is a wife who is wilfully ignorant of her husbands extra-marital behaviour. Although infidelity rates are actually roughly the same for men and women, with four major studies all suggesting that 60-70% of married people will be unfaithful at some point in their marriage. Then of course we have the sky high divorce rate and the serial monogamists... |
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