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We were planning a nice day out tomorrow..
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" On the whole, they must be happy with their lot. They used to be as militant as **** years back. " The bastards whacked the hell out of my backside back in the day!  | |||
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"Not quite the same job though is it? Teacher in a tough Inner City school....and working in Jane Norman selling blouses." Nor the same pay if you want to make that comparison. There are plenty of jobs which are equally if not tougher than teaching.... not many of which have an equally generous pension scheme if they are in the private sector. Public sector pensions are a luxury this country can ill afford to preserve for the sake of "it's always been that way" | |||
"Not quite the same job though is it? Teacher in a tough Inner City school....and working in Jane Norman selling blouses." both could be out of work. | |||
"Not quite the same job though is it? Teacher in a tough Inner City school....and working in Jane Norman selling blouses. Nor the same pay if you want to make that comparison. There are plenty of jobs which are equally if not tougher than teaching.... not many of which have an equally generous pension scheme if they are in the private sector. Public sector pensions are a luxury this country can ill afford to preserve for the sake of "it's always been that way"" Nicely put, Polo x | |||
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"A graduate entering the Marks and Spencer Management Trainee programme starts on a £24,000 salary from day one. A graduate entering the Graduate Teaching Programme (outside of London) earns just under £16,000. ." Thats not quite true of a teachers starting salary, it is around £21,000 | |||
"A graduate entering the Marks and Spencer Management Trainee programme starts on a £24,000 salary from day one. A graduate entering the Graduate Teaching Programme (outside of London) earns just under £16,000. The teacher will in all likelyhood never attain the salary that the M&S employee will if both are succesful in their careers and start at the same time, with Primary School Head Teachers earning about Two thirds that of an M&S store manager. We empower these graduate teachers to teach the nations children, all very nice and cozy in my local village Primary School....not so nice and cozy just Thirty miles down the road in some Primary schools of Plymouth City centre. It's not all rosy being a teacher in 2011." A valid point but no one puts a gun to their head and makes them teach. You have to wonder if teaching is bad and pay is poor why they do it! | |||
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"A graduate entering the Marks and Spencer Management Trainee programme starts on a £24,000 salary from day one. A graduate entering the Graduate Teaching Programme (outside of London) earns just under £16,000. The teacher will in all likelyhood never attain the salary that the M&S employee will if both are succesful in their careers and start at the same time, with Primary School Head Teachers earning about Two thirds that of an M&S store manager. We empower these graduate teachers to teach the nations children, all very nice and cozy in my local village Primary School....not so nice and cozy just Thirty miles down the road in some Primary schools of Plymouth City centre. It's not all rosy being a teacher in 2011. A valid point but no one puts a gun to their head and makes them teach. You have to wonder if teaching is bad and pay is poor why they do it! " Because like many other careers (Nursing, Policing etc.) they feel it is a career that does society some good? Where would any of us be without a decent education? | |||
"The entry salary in the Graduate Teaching Programme is under £16,000....my niece started last October after graduating from Uni." Then she is being conned. You do mean a qualified teacher just fresh out of Uni with QTS? | |||
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"The entry salary in the Graduate Teaching Programme is under £16,000....my niece started last October after graduating from Uni. Then she is being conned. You do mean a qualified teacher just fresh out of Uni with QTS?" Ok scrap that, we are at odds here. What you are talking about is someone training to be a teacher? Which isn't quite a teacher yet. The salary for a QTS ie, someone who is already a teacher is around £21.000 | |||
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" Education, Education, Education. What a frigging con. My how frustrated, and angry, the next generation of "educated" folks are gonna be. " "Educated" folks don't get conned. That's what education is all about. | |||
"A graduate entering the Marks and Spencer Management Trainee programme starts on a £24,000 salary from day one. A graduate entering the Graduate Teaching Programme (outside of London) earns just under £16,000. The teacher will in all likelyhood never attain the salary that the M&S employee will if both are succesful in their careers and start at the same time, with Primary School Head Teachers earning about Two thirds that of an M&S store manager. We empower these graduate teachers to teach the nations children, all very nice and cozy in my local village Primary School....not so nice and cozy just Thirty miles down the road in some Primary schools of Plymouth City centre. It's not all rosy being a teacher in 2011. A valid point but no one puts a gun to their head and makes them teach. You have to wonder if teaching is bad and pay is poor why they do it! Because like many other careers (Nursing, Policing etc.) they feel it is a career that does society some good? Where would any of us be without a decent education?" Educated by peers i guess. There are many home schooled who do ok. I don't really buy the "do it for the good of society though" If that was right and they were so altruistic then they wouldn't strike or take so many sick days off. | |||
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"A graduate entering the Marks and Spencer Management Trainee programme starts on a £24,000 salary from day one. A graduate entering the Graduate Teaching Programme (outside of London) earns just under £16,000. The teacher will in all likelyhood never attain the salary that the M&S employee will if both are succesful in their careers and start at the same time, with Primary School Head Teachers earning about Two thirds that of an M&S store manager. We empower these graduate teachers to teach the nations children, all very nice and cozy in my local village Primary School....not so nice and cozy just Thirty miles down the road in some Primary schools of Plymouth City centre. It's not all rosy being a teacher in 2011. A valid point but no one puts a gun to their head and makes them teach. You have to wonder if teaching is bad and pay is poor why they do it! Because like many other careers (Nursing, Policing etc.) they feel it is a career that does society some good? Where would any of us be without a decent education? Educated by peers i guess. There are many home schooled who do ok. I don't really buy the "do it for the good of society though" If that was right and they were so altruistic then they wouldn't strike or take so many sick days off. " 'OK' don't cut it in 2011. Peers are your equal - they can't, by definition, expand your thought. | |||
"A graduate entering the Marks and Spencer Management Trainee programme starts on a £24,000 salary from day one. A graduate entering the Graduate Teaching Programme (outside of London) earns just under £16,000. The teacher will in all likelyhood never attain the salary that the M&S employee will if both are succesful in their careers and start at the same time, with Primary School Head Teachers earning about Two thirds that of an M&S store manager. We empower these graduate teachers to teach the nations children, all very nice and cozy in my local village Primary School....not so nice and cozy just Thirty miles down the road in some Primary schools of Plymouth City centre. It's not all rosy being a teacher in 2011. A valid point but no one puts a gun to their head and makes them teach. You have to wonder if teaching is bad and pay is poor why they do it! Because like many other careers (Nursing, Policing etc.) they feel it is a career that does society some good? Where would any of us be without a decent education? Educated by peers i guess. There are many home schooled who do ok. I don't really buy the "do it for the good of society though" If that was right and they were so altruistic then they wouldn't strike or take so many sick days off. 'OK' don't cut it in 2011. Peers are your equal - they can't, by definition, expand your thought." Haven't a clue what your getting at. Put soda and ice in mine will ya.  | |||
"The Graduate Teaching Programme is for those who choose to enter teaching after attaining a degree in another subject. This is how most modern day teachers start their careers, they attain a degree, often in subjects like Sociology and Psychology and then choose a career path of their choosing. Many enter the Graduate Teaching Programme, many others enter the Police Force or Social Workers etc. The GTP is a One year scheme that leads to a QTS and is on site in a Primary School." Yes I realised what you were talking about so reposted. Whichever way a teacher qualifies, be that through a 3 year degree plus a year training or a teachers degree, at the end of it they get a £21,000 starting salary. | |||
"Here are the pay grades for teachers as of September 2010, source: TDA (Training and Development Agency) Headteachers: Max £105,097, Min £42,379 Advanced Skills Teachers: Max £56,950, Min £37,461 Post-threshold pay scale: Max £36,756, Min £34,181 Main pay scale: Max £31,552, Min £21,588 Unqualified teachers: Max £25,016, Min £15,817 ~ As you can see, the £16k you quoted is way down at the bottom of the teacher pay scale but that teacher grad has the potential to earn £100k+ in his/her career, and even those teachers who do not make it to headteacher status will still earn more than the average private sector worker, and that's more than enough to provide themselves with a decent pension on retirement." "the average private sector worker" hasn't spent 4 or 5 years at university and teacher training college. | |||
" Education, Education, Education. What a frigging con. My how frustrated, and angry, the next generation of "educated" folks are gonna be. "Educated" folks don't get conned. That's what education is all about." No? It's said of North Africa and the Arab world, the popular uprising, 30% or so of young educated people with no jobs or prospects. the next generation of our youngsters, led to believe through school that they are special 'cos they have 12 GCSE's , 7 at A* grade, they take a substandard degree course, may well need a "masters" degree to follow. McDonalds of al people, going to start their own "degree courses". Glad i'm not gonna be the new "educated". | |||
" "the average private sector worker" hasn't spent 4 or 5 years at university and teacher training college." Paid for by the taxpayer up until now. | |||
"The starting salary for a probationary teacher (in Scotland) in Nursery, Special, Primary and Secondary schools in Scotland as of 1/4/10 IF, and it's a big IF, they can find a job, is £21,438. Not exactly a King's Ransom for someone who can make such an immense difference to a child's future." by the way until you have been there and seen it and been part of the education system its dam hard for NQTS  | |||
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"The Graduate Teaching Programme is for those who choose to enter teaching after attaining a degree in another subject. This is how most modern day teachers start their careers, they attain a degree, often in subjects like Sociology and Psychology and then choose a career path of their choosing. Many enter the Graduate Teaching Programme, many others enter the Police Force or Social Workers etc. The GTP is a One year scheme that leads to a QTS and is on site in a Primary School. Yes I realised what you were talking about so reposted. Whichever way a teacher qualifies, be that through a 3 year degree plus a year training or a teachers degree, at the end of it they get a £21,000 starting salary." Which is still £3,000 less than a management trainee in M&S....selling knickers and Prawn Sandwiches. | |||
"Here are the pay grades for teachers as of September 2010, source: TDA (Training and Development Agency) Headteachers: Max £105,097, Min £42,379 Advanced Skills Teachers: Max £56,950, Min £37,461 Post-threshold pay scale: Max £36,756, Min £34,181 Main pay scale: Max £31,552, Min £21,588 Unqualified teachers: Max £25,016, Min £15,817 ~ As you can see, the £16k you quoted is way down at the bottom of the teacher pay scale but that teacher grad has the potential to earn £100k+ in his/her career, and even those teachers who do not make it to headteacher status will still earn more than the average private sector worker, and that's more than enough to provide themselves with a decent pension on retirement." The lowest grade is unqualified teachers Wishy, ie TA's | |||
"Here are the pay grades for teachers as of September 2010, source: TDA (Training and Development Agency) Headteachers: Max £105,097, Min £42,379 Advanced Skills Teachers: Max £56,950, Min £37,461 Post-threshold pay scale: Max £36,756, Min £34,181 Main pay scale: Max £31,552, Min £21,588 Unqualified teachers: Max £25,016, Min £15,817 ~ As you can see, the £16k you quoted is way down at the bottom of the teacher pay scale but that teacher grad has the potential to earn £100k+ in his/her career, and even those teachers who do not make it to headteacher status will still earn more than the average private sector worker, and that's more than enough to provide themselves with a decent pension on retirement. "the average private sector worker" hasn't spent 4 or 5 years at university and teacher training college." The average private sector worker! Well if you include the ones who are on the min wage no. If you include architects doctors and lawyers its a different matter. | |||
" Which is still £3,000 less than a management trainee in M&S....selling knickers and Prawn Sandwiches." That I don't doubt, I was just mentioning the figure wasn't quite right. | |||
"Here are the pay grades for teachers as of September 2010, source: TDA (Training and Development Agency) Headteachers: Max £105,097, Min £42,379 Advanced Skills Teachers: Max £56,950, Min £37,461 Post-threshold pay scale: Max £36,756, Min £34,181 Main pay scale: Max £31,552, Min £21,588 Unqualified teachers: Max £25,016, Min £15,817 ~ As you can see, the £16k you quoted is way down at the bottom of the teacher pay scale but that teacher grad has the potential to earn £100k+ in his/her career, and even those teachers who do not make it to headteacher status will still earn more than the average private sector worker, and that's more than enough to provide themselves with a decent pension on retirement." Wishy mate, a few months back, the Government published a large spreadsheet of all public salaries over £100,000. Some 39,000 entries, some very public names, some i know in person. There are many headteacher salaries well over, and i mean significantly well over, £105,000. | |||
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" There are many headteacher salaries well over, and i mean significantly well over, £105,000. " I'm absolutely sure there are, I was quoting from TDA which says £105k max which is there 'official' figures I guess. | |||
"TA's weren't even listed on the source I sent you. There were TLA payments and special needs allowances but no teaching assistants. My sister is a TA and she's doing her degree to become a qualified teacher eventually. And she's 50 so there's hope for us all lol." I am guessing it was the unqualified teachers Wishy...they were not qualified  | |||
"Teachers have absolutely every right to strike! I would be MASSIVELY pissed off, if I signed up for a pension, paid into it for X amount of years, to then be told, I weren't getting what were agreed in the beginning!! Wouldn't everyone be the same?...Plus, they work Extremely Hard & a horrendous amount of hours! Fair play to them" That's the point of contention. Anyone signing up for a deal, whether it be a pension over 40+ years of working life, a mortgage over 25 years or even a one year 'interest free' loan to buy one of those watches that are the size of a saucer and completely useless for telling the time, would be mightily pissed off if someone, anyone came along during the duration of the contract and sought to arbitrarily change the terms and conditions to the detriment of either party. I note that the Con Dem Members of Parliament - keen as they are to 'improve' the pension plan for others - are more that a bit reluctant to discuss 'improving' their own pension arrangements. Tony Blair (rightly?) got a kicking for some of the things he said and did but who amongst us can quibble with the belief that education, after public health and housing, is the single thing thing which makes the most difference to people's life chances? | |||
"TA's weren't even listed on the source I sent you. There were TLA payments and special needs allowances but no teaching assistants. My sister is a TA and she's doing her degree to become a qualified teacher eventually. And she's 50 so there's hope for us all lol. I am guessing it was the unqualified teachers Wishy...they were not qualified "Phew! Glad we got that sorted lol. | |||
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" That's the point of contention. Anyone signing up for a deal, whether it be a pension over 40+ years of working life, a mortgage over 25 years or even a one year 'interest free' loan to buy one of those watches that are the size of a saucer and completely useless for telling the time, would be mightily pissed off if someone, anyone came along during the duration of the contract and sought to arbitrarily change the terms and conditions to the detriment of either party. ?" I have to agree with this TBH...moving the goalposts after you have all agreed terms isn't a good thing for me. | |||
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"That's the point of contention. Anyone signing up for a deal, whether it be a pension over 40+ years of working life, a mortgage over 25 years or even a one year 'interest free' loan to buy one of those watches that are the size of a saucer and completely useless for telling the time, would be mightily pissed off if someone, anyone came along during the duration of the contract and sought to arbitrarily change the terms and conditions to the detriment of either party. " Hmmmm.. you mean like what's happening in Greece right now? If we don't do something about our ever ageing population on nice pensions that we can't afford.. well, there but for the grace of God.. I wonder how many of those protesting in Greece were those who are actually drawing their public pension??? They all seemed like younguns to me. | |||
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" I note that the Con Dem Members of Parliament - keen as they are to 'improve' the pension plan for others - are more that a bit reluctant to discuss 'improving' their own pension arrangements. " That's a point will the MP's cut their own pensions? I don't think they will somehow. | |||
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"just because we are living longer does not mean we can necessarily work longer everyone is different, i dont know why everyone has the knife into teachers they are not the only union striking tomorrow ,do you really want 67 year burnt out staff teaching your kids,and stopping the younger ones from progressing . If teaching is so simple ,why do parents breath a sigh of relief when its time for their kids to go to school how about the regular abuse and often violence they face (i sem to recall everyone being sympathetic last year when one of them snapped and attacked kids). If these average 4k pa pensions are so unaffordable let the govt (the employers) publish the figures so we can all have a look instead of talking rhetoric,lets also stop the bank bonuses and the MP's massive pensions 15 years input for 24k pa, the equivalent of a £700,000 fund ,lets stop the big bosses walking away with big money with no controls. If the private sector pensions are crap lets fight to get them improved instead of dashing for the bottom. " the goal posts will all ways keep getting moved and when there is no more blood to get out of stone if you know what i mean | |||
"That's the point of contention. Anyone signing up for a deal, whether it be a pension over 40+ years of working life, a mortgage over 25 years or even a one year 'interest free' loan to buy one of those watches that are the size of a saucer and completely useless for telling the time, would be mightily pissed off if someone, anyone came along during the duration of the contract and sought to arbitrarily change the terms and conditions to the detriment of either party. Hmmmm.. you mean like what's happening in Greece right now? If we don't do something about our ever ageing population on nice pensions that we can't afford.. well, there but for the grace of God.. I wonder how many of those protesting in Greece were those who are actually drawing their public pension??? They all seemed like younguns to me. " the population of greece is 10 million if they carried on paying for 100 years they can not clear their debt ,the arguament they have appears to be bollox lets say we cant pay ,start again leave the euro and go back top the drachma,if you look at the alternative what have they got to lose . | |||
" That's the point of contention. Anyone signing up for a deal, whether it be a pension over 40+ years of working life, a mortgage over 25 years or even a one year 'interest free' loan to buy one of those watches that are the size of a saucer and completely useless for telling the time, would be mightily pissed off if someone, anyone came along during the duration of the contract and sought to arbitrarily change the terms and conditions to the detriment of either party. ? I have to agree with this TBH...moving the goalposts after you have all agreed terms isn't a good thing for me." I'd have absolutely no problem if (any) government said 'as of [agreed date] we're changing the pension arrangements for x to y so, if that's a deal-breaker for you - don't train to become a teacher, or a police officer or a firefighter or a nurse or .......... . This mob haven't done that. | |||
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"ours finish up for the holidays tomorrow.... 7 weeks of hell!!!" Just keep them out of the pubs and wine bars. Oh, you mean the weans? Sorry. | |||
"Let's look at it from another angle Wishy....recently you were talking about maybe getting redundancy and then entering a Cisco Systems training scheme that could pocket you an annual salary of £60k.....am I right? But you think that a head of Science department teacher in a 1200 pupil secondary school with maybe 30 years teaching experience is arsehole lucky to be earning £45k?" I went for an electrician's course in the end. I didn't want to stay in telecoms anymore, yet the money would have been a guaranteed wage as a Cisco man. As a self employed sparky I'll probably earn somewhere between £35k-£60k once I've got my full certs and that'll be down to the effort I put in to go out and get the work. As for a pension, I haven't even started one yet and I'm 46. 
I did have one a few years back but when Robert Maxwell went for a swim it scared the shit out of me that I could tuck money away every month all my working life and some lowlife could take it all just when I needed it. So I stopped paying into it. My retirement will be funded through property, and Siren has a decent enough pension of her own - a public one, perversely. | |||
" That's the point of contention. Anyone signing up for a deal, whether it be a pension over 40+ years of working life, a mortgage over 25 years or even a one year 'interest free' loan to buy one of those watches that are the size of a saucer and completely useless for telling the time, would be mightily pissed off if someone, anyone came along during the duration of the contract and sought to arbitrarily change the terms and conditions to the detriment of either party. ? I have to agree with this TBH...moving the goalposts after you have all agreed terms isn't a good thing for me. I'd have absolutely no problem if (any) government said 'as of [agreed date] we're changing the pension arrangements for x to y so, if that's a deal-breaker for you - don't train to become a teacher, or a police officer or a firefighter or a nurse or .......... . This mob haven't done that." And there is the problem, if they had have done that and maybe started the new way of pensions from this year say,and honoured the pensions and terms already running, then they probably wouldn't have a strike on their hands. | |||
"Let's look at it from another angle Wishy....recently you were talking about maybe getting redundancy and then entering a Cisco Systems training scheme that could pocket you an annual salary of £60k.....am I right? But you think that a head of Science department teacher in a 1200 pupil secondary school with maybe 30 years teaching experience is arsehole lucky to be earning £45k?" In all probability, such a person would be unlucky to be earning as little as £45k per annum. And in response to PD, this propoganda about the average public sector pension in payment of £4k per annum is misleading. Firstly, because it's nearer £7800. But more importantly, it's largely paying pensionners who worked through the 50-s to 90's on relatively low pay ( as many did ). It would be interesting to see what the average payment would be if they all retired tomorrow. For example, the leading fire officer on merseyside , some 784 men under his command, is on over £200,000 per annum. I don't expect he'll be getting a pension of £4k per annum. If it was so easy, to bring private pensions upto public levels then why don't we? Let's pay all pensionners £25k per year. | |||
"the population of greece is 10 million "  I'm truly gobsmacked by that actually. I thought there were a lot more Greeks than 10m (Wiki says 11.3m but who's arguing lol).
And those 10m have a national debt of €1.2tr to pay off? Not a chance in hell. | |||
" .......My retirement will be funded through property " That, I believe, was the plan of many Irish/ Icelandic/ Greek folks - until it all went tits-up  | |||
" yet the money would have been a guaranteed wage as a Cisco man. ill be funded through property, and Siren has a decent enough pension of her own - a public one, perversely. "uk average wage for a CCNA qual is 35k at present | |||
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" That's the point of contention. Anyone signing up for a deal, whether it be a pension over 40+ years of working life, a mortgage over 25 years or even a one year 'interest free' loan to buy one of those watches that are the size of a saucer and completely useless for telling the time, would be mightily pissed off if someone, anyone came along during the duration of the contract and sought to arbitrarily change the terms and conditions to the detriment of either party. ? I have to agree with this TBH...moving the goalposts after you have all agreed terms isn't a good thing for me. I'd have absolutely no problem if (any) government said 'as of [agreed date] we're changing the pension arrangements for x to y so, if that's a deal-breaker for you - don't train to become a teacher, or a police officer or a firefighter or a nurse or .......... . This mob haven't done that. And there is the problem, if they had have done that and maybe started the new way of pensions from this year say,and honoured the pensions and terms already running, then they probably wouldn't have a strike on their hands." Probably not. It's when you welch on a deal that folks, quite rightly, get uppity. I dunno if they (Con Dems) could have imposed changes within+/- a year or so of taking office but by 2013/4 they could reasonably claim to have consulted with and issued fair warning to university entrants planning a career in public service. It's a bit like being told the price of your season ticket is being raised half-way through the season 'cos your team aren't doing well. | |||
" yet the money would have been a guaranteed wage as a Cisco man. ill be funded through property, and Siren has a decent enough pension of her own - a public one, perversely.
uk average wage for a CCNA qual is 35k at present "That doesn't seem like a helluva lot since much of the demand is likely to be in high-cost areas, like London and the South East. Back in the day when I worked in Whitehall and in Cobalt Square £35,000 wouldn't have gone very far. | |||
"Let's look at it from another angle Wishy....recently you were talking about maybe getting redundancy and then entering a Cisco Systems training scheme that could pocket you an annual salary of £60k.....am I right? But you think that a head of Science department teacher in a 1200 pupil secondary school with maybe 30 years teaching experience is arsehole lucky to be earning £45k? In all probability, such a person would be unlucky to be earning as little as £45k per annum. And in response to PD, this propoganda about the average public sector pension in payment of £4k per annum is misleading. Firstly, because it's nearer £7800. But more importantly, it's largely paying pensionners who worked through the 50-s to 90's on relatively low pay ( as many did ). It would be interesting to see what the average payment would be if they all retired tomorrow. For example, the leading fire officer on merseyside , some 784 men under his command, is on over £200,000 per annum. I don't expect he'll be getting a pension of £4k per annum. If it was so easy, to bring private pensions upto public levels then why don't we? Let's pay all pensionners £25k per year. " im game if you are ,tell you what lets nationalise all the banks to pay for it and scrap trident while we are at it.. nahh fuck it ,lets just total up what we own and pay of our debts and redistribute the wealth from the top 5% to the rest of us .. | |||
" yet the money would have been a guaranteed wage as a Cisco man. ill be funded through property, and Siren has a decent enough pension of her own - a public one, perversely.
uk average wage for a CCNA qual is 35k at present
That doesn't seem like a helluva lot since much of the demand is likely to be in high-cost areas, like London and the South East.
Back in the day when I worked in Whitehall and in Cobalt Square £35,000 wouldn't have gone very far."i just pulled the average from 3 agencies dont forget its only this quarter that we have gone to surplus in IT jobs ,its been a bit of a wasteland out there since the recession and govt contracts pulled ...now its just in surplus 100000 employees to 103,000 jobs most sought after IT skil =SQL | |||
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" It's a bit like being told the price of your season ticket is being raised half-way through the season 'cos your team aren't doing well. " I suspect you will disagree TAV, but THAT is the bone of contention. This has been coming for years, long before 2008. If Gordon "i'm so fucking good" Brown had been any good, we wouldn't be in half the mess ( note i said half, it'd still be messy ). I don't think to this day he acknowledges how much he fucked up, maybe he doesn't even care, Blair certainly doesn't. 1997 massive tax on utility companies, massive tax on pension funds every year, £22billion from 3g licences, all pissed away on his social programme of buying and controlling the masses. His rules on regulating banks, didn't they take advantage? And when that was gone, emnarking on a progrm of borrowing £700-800billion and rising. Not counting the yet to be seen costs of PPI programs. Interest rates far too low because the vast majority have far too much debt they can't afford. If we really are the world's fourth largest economy , where the fuck is it. | |||
"uk average wage for a CCNA qual is 35k at present " CCNP is a lot higher. Even more if you gain the Security cert too. I looked into it in detail but in the end I just had to get out of telecoms. | |||
" It's a bit like being told the price of your season ticket is being raised half-way through the season 'cos your team aren't doing well. I suspect you will disagree TAV, but THAT is the bone of contention. This has been coming for years, long before 2008. If Gordon "i'm so fucking good" Brown had been any good, we wouldn't be in half the mess ( note i said half, it'd still be messy ). I don't think to this day he acknowledges how much he fucked up, maybe he doesn't even care, Blair certainly doesn't. 1997 massive tax on utility companies, massive tax on pension funds every year, £22billion from 3g licences, all pissed away on his social programme of buying and controlling the masses. His rules on regulating banks, didn't they take advantage? And when that was gone, emnarking on a progrm of borrowing £700-800billion and rising. Not counting the yet to be seen costs of PPI programs. Interest rates far too low because the vast majority have far too much debt they can't afford. If we really are the world's fourth largest economy , where the fuck is it. " you forgot all the bullion he sold off at rock bottom giveaway prices. What sort of understanding of basic market strategy was that ffs. | |||
" im game if you are ,tell you what lets nationalise all the banks to pay for it and scrap trident while we are at it.. nahh fuck it ,lets just total up what we own and pay of our debts and redistribute the wealth from the top 5% to the rest of us .. "Haven't we already nationalised most of the banks? Trident isn't a MOD decision - it's down to the Pentagon. If Uncle Sam reckons there sould be a nuclear deterrent at HMNB Clyde - that's where it'll be. I'm not against positive redistribution of wealth. As a start I'd move towards tithing everyone earning over £100,000 in favour of a good cause of their choice. Anyone 'moving their goalpost' would be tithed and fined the obvious 10% and 10%. | |||
" It's a bit like being told the price of your season ticket is being raised half-way through the season 'cos your team aren't doing well. I suspect you will disagree TAV, but THAT is the bone of contention. This has been coming for years, long before 2008. If Gordon "i'm so fucking good" Brown had been any good, we wouldn't be in half the mess ( note i said half, it'd still be messy ). I don't think to this day he acknowledges how much he fucked up, maybe he doesn't even care, Blair certainly doesn't. 1997 massive tax on utility companies, massive tax on pension funds every year, £22billion from 3g licences, all pissed away on his social programme of buying and controlling the masses. His rules on regulating banks, didn't they take advantage? And when that was gone, emnarking on a progrm of borrowing £700-800billion and rising. Not counting the yet to be seen costs of PPI programs. Interest rates far too low because the vast majority have far too much debt they can't afford. If we really are the world's fourth largest economy , where the fuck is it. " in the hands of the top 5% thats where,anyway 61% of gdp isnt a lot to worry about after the war it was 3 times the total gdp and we bounced back. This country like all others has always operated on tick | |||
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"uk average wage for a CCNA qual is 35k at present CCNP is a lot higher. Even more if you gain the Security cert too. I looked into it in detail but in the end I just had to get out of telecoms." I didn't think you could undertake CCNP until you held a CCNA certification? Or am I wrong? | |||
" Fact : If you divided the total wealth of everyone in the UK equally today, within a week it wouldn't be far off the position it is now. " I really don't get this take money off of those who have worked for it and redistribute to to those that haven't. Where is the incentive to work hard and attain a decent lifestyle if it can be 'tithed' away at some point in the future? Isn't that what the argument in favour of tomorrow's action by teachers all about? I really dislike socialism with a passion as it penalises the gifted in favour of the lesser achievers. What a fucked up ideaology that is. | |||
"If one can amass £100k in cash during one's working life, retire at 70, with no mortgage, with a natural energy source (solar for example), how much money would one need to have a comfortable lifestyle in retirement? £500/month maybe? £100k / £500 = 200 months / 12 = 16.66 years. The men in my family rarely make it past 85 if I'm brutally honest, so £100k would be more than enough for me to get by in retirement, plus we'd have Siren's pension too. So £100k is my target over the next 25 years. Who needs a pension. "My, limited, understanding of how the benefits system works suggests that 1) a spousal pension (which you reckon is OK) will exclude you from any help from that quarter and 2) a lump sum of a modest £100,000 couldn't produce an income from age (say) 68 till that average death age for males in your family (85?) that'd keep you in Brown Ale - never mind anything less. I don't know many folks who survive on £500 per month - I don't know that many who manage on £500 per week (but that's a different matter) but I'd ask where, exactly is the £100,000 coming from and what, if anything, does 'property' have to do with it? | |||
"uk average wage for a CCNA qual is 35k at present CCNP is a lot higher. Even more if you gain the Security cert too. I looked into it in detail but in the end I just had to get out of telecoms. I didn't think you could undertake CCNP until you held a CCNA certification? Or am I wrong?" The course I was looking at was for a CCNP which encompassed the CCNA into it. A further course later would have got me the CCSP cert (Cisco Certified Security Professional). | |||
" Fact : If you divided the total wealth of everyone in the UK equally today, within a week it wouldn't be far off the position it is now. " That, I'd venture to suggest, would depend on how exactly you defined wealth. If you used the Sunday Times Richest 1,000 in purely cash terms you'd probably be right but if you included the realisable value of their assets - it might be a different sum. | |||
" I really don't get this take money off of those who have worked for it and redistribute to to those that haven't. Where is the incentive to work hard and attain a decent lifestyle if it can be 'tithed' away at some point in the future? ..............." It ISN'T about rebistributing it to people who haven't worked for it - it's about redistributing it to people who CAN'T work for it. Tithing is just a sophisticated form of taxation working, in a way the current PAYE/ Inheritance Tax/ Schedule D and so on, quite simply can't. | |||
" Fact : If you divided the total wealth of everyone in the UK equally today, within a week it wouldn't be far off the position it is now. I really don't get this take money off of those who have worked for it and redistribute to to those that haven't. Where is the incentive to work hard and attain a decent lifestyle if it can be 'tithed' away at some point in the future? Isn't that what the argument in favour of tomorrow's action by teachers all about? I really dislike socialism with a passion as it penalises the gifted in favour of the lesser achievers. What a fucked up ideaology that is." lol wishy most have inherited there wealth from the robber baron times we are not talking mere millionaires here, what talent has the duke of westminster apart from being the right sperm in the right place at the right time ? | |||
"My, limited, understanding of how the benefits system works suggests that 1) a spousal pension (which you reckon is OK) will exclude you from any help from that quarter and 2) a lump sum of a modest £100,000 couldn't produce an income from age (say) 68 till that average death age for males in your family (85?) that'd keep you in Brown Ale - never mind anything less. I don't know many folks who survive on £500 per month - I don't know that many who manage on £500 per week (but that's a different matter) but I'd ask where, exactly is the £100,000 coming from and what, if anything, does 'property' have to do with it?" I was just tossing figures around. Without our mortage and with our own energy supply (energy companies are another bugbear of mine and I am determined to get rid of our N.Grid supply & Gas supplies at some point), we could easily live on Siren's pension and any money I bring in (hence the £500/month figure). Seems perfectly do-able to me. | |||
" I really don't get this take money off of those who have worked for it and redistribute to to those that haven't. Where is the incentive to work hard and attain a decent lifestyle if it can be 'tithed' away at some point in the future? ............... It ISN'T about rebistributing it to people who haven't worked for it - it's about redistributing it to people who CAN'T work for it. Tithing is just a sophisticated form of taxation working, in a way the current PAYE/ Inheritance Tax/ Schedule D and so on, quite simply can't." What is the % of the population who genuinely can't work? And where are their families? I'm not responsible for someone 400 miles away in a town I've never heard of and who's name I don't even know. His/her family are. | |||
"uk average wage for a CCNA qual is 35k at present CCNP is a lot higher. Even more if you gain the Security cert too. I looked into it in detail but in the end I just had to get out of telecoms. I didn't think you could undertake CCNP until you held a CCNA certification? Or am I wrong? The course I was looking at was for a CCNP which encompassed the CCNA into it. A further course later would have got me the CCSP cert (Cisco Certified Security Professional). " just for info a ccnp starts at 25k but can rise to 60k when at top of career avg salary with ccsp is 50k with experience. | |||
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" I really don't get this take money off of those who have worked for it and redistribute to to those that haven't. Where is the incentive to work hard and attain a decent lifestyle if it can be 'tithed' away at some point in the future? ............... It ISN'T about rebistributing it to people who haven't worked for it - it's about redistributing it to people who CAN'T work for it. Tithing is just a sophisticated form of taxation working, in a way the current PAYE/ Inheritance Tax/ Schedule D and so on, quite simply can't. What is the % of the population who genuinely can't work? And where are their families? I'm not responsible for someone 400 miles away in a town I've never heard of and who's name I don't even know. His/her family are." you always say extremist things wishy ...lol ,are you advocating we shut down the benefit system and its every fucker for himself then ? | |||
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" What is the % of the population who genuinely can't work? And where are their families? I'm not responsible for someone 400 miles away in a town I've never heard of and who's name I don't even know. His/her family are." We live in Britain.....not India We are not responsible for our families, otherwise we would all have bloody granny annexes attached to our houses. | |||
" I was just tossing figures around. Without our mortage and with our own energy supply (energy companies are another bugbear of mine and I am determined to get rid of our N.Grid supply & Gas supplies at some point), we could easily live on Siren's pension and any money I bring in (hence the £500/month figure). Seems perfectly do-able to me." That seems to be the common assumption. 'If we do this and we do that it seems perfectly do-able to me'. It may very well be the case but how can you be sure and I come back to my question "what, if anything, does 'property' have to do with it?" MY income is heavily dependent on rental values of commercial property so I understand perfectly how it CAN be achieved - I just don't know how an individual (unless you have a large commercial property portfolio) can make the same claim. It's all very well thinking you have a house for which you paid (perhaps) 20% of the professional valuation (under the Right To Buy Scheme) and that you can sell it for so many times the purchase price. The fact remains you still need a roof over your head and HMG isn't going to provide it. | |||
"uk average wage for a CCNA qual is 35k at present CCNP is a lot higher. Even more if you gain the Security cert too. I looked into it in detail but in the end I just had to get out of telecoms. I didn't think you could undertake CCNP until you held a CCNA certification? Or am I wrong? The course I was looking at was for a CCNP which encompassed the CCNA into it. A further course later would have got me the CCSP cert (Cisco Certified Security Professional). just for info a ccnp starts at 25k but can rise to 60k when at top of career avg salary with ccsp is 50k with experience. " I was under no illusions and I knew I'd be at the tail end of the salary structure for a while. I was even looking at going to United Arab Emirates to work but I just couldn't leave Siren and the kids. | |||
" Start digging a big hole Wishy, i hear there's geothermal energy underneath you. Plus there is a previously unknown coal seam 650 metres down. Some of that's gonna be useful in a few years." quite like the idea of geothermal heat but its only about 15 deg isnt it and all those miles of pipe you have to bury in your garden ,re the coal hell yeah lets use it as long as its smokeless , when the miners went on strike up in whey eh land they used to dig a bit of coal out through the foundations of there houses to keep warm ,makes you realise what previous strikers have fought for and suffered so we can all have a bit of dignity and decent conditions | |||
" I really don't get this take money off of those who have worked for it and redistribute to to those that haven't. Where is the incentive to work hard and attain a decent lifestyle if it can be 'tithed' away at some point in the future? ............... It ISN'T about rebistributing it to people who haven't worked for it - it's about redistributing it to people who CAN'T work for it. Tithing is just a sophisticated form of taxation working, in a way the current PAYE/ Inheritance Tax/ Schedule D and so on, quite simply can't. What is the % of the population who genuinely can't work? And where are their families? I'm not responsible for someone 400 miles away in a town I've never heard of and who's name I don't even know. His/her family are." I can understand, even if I can't agree with this attitude. I just hope you never find yourself in a position where someone 400 miles away becomes responsible for you. Actually, I suspect nowhere in the UK is 400 miles away from South Tyneside (except extreme Cornwall and Shetland) so it's kinda academic. | |||
"uk average wage for a CCNA qual is 35k at present CCNP is a lot higher. Even more if you gain the Security cert too. I looked into it in detail but in the end I just had to get out of telecoms. I didn't think you could undertake CCNP until you held a CCNA certification? Or am I wrong? The course I was looking at was for a CCNP which encompassed the CCNA into it. A further course later would have got me the CCSP cert (Cisco Certified Security Professional). just for info a ccnp starts at 25k but can rise to 60k when at top of career avg salary with ccsp is 50k with experience. I was under no illusions and I knew I'd be at the tail end of the salary structure for a while. I was even looking at going to United Arab Emirates to work but I just couldn't leave Siren and the kids. " itsec is my area so i thought i would take a look | |||
" you always say extremist things wishy ...lol ,are you advocating we shut down the benefit system and its every fucker for himself then ?" PD, you will have experienced many things over the years, the welfare state is now so out of control compared to say 1974. Are there really 2.4million people of adult working age that are so disabled that they can't do some work of some sort? Fuck this "depression" malarkey, some work would sort out 95% in a week. | |||
"That seems to be the common assumption. 'If we do this and we do that it seems perfectly do-able to me'. It may very well be the case but how can you be sure and I come back to my question "what, if anything, does 'property' have to do with it?" " As I said before, and now for the third time, I was just tossing figures around, but if you read the last line I said 'who needs a pension'. Now collate that with what I said earlier about using property as a pension and you'll work out that if I don't need a pension then I won't need a property portfolio to fund it. The point I was trying to make was that £100k in the bank should see me through to the end of my life with a comfortable standard of living, not a luxurious one, just a comfortable one. Siren's pension on top of that will make our lives that little bit more comfortable. That's all hypothetical anyway as I do intend to buy property, and as a sparky I'll do the electrics on them and most of the refurb work and then rent them out to students. " It's all very well thinking you have a house for which you paid (perhaps) 20% of the professional valuation (under the Right To Buy Scheme) and that you can sell it for so many times the purchase price. The fact remains you still need a roof over your head and HMG isn't going to provide it. " No, it most certainly wasn't bought under the RTB scheme. I'm not giving our personal financial info on here to total strangers to pore over but it will be paid for by the time we retire. | |||
" I really don't get this take money off of those who have worked for it and redistribute to to those that haven't. Where is the incentive to work hard and attain a decent lifestyle if it can be 'tithed' away at some point in the future? ............... It ISN'T about rebistributing it to people who haven't worked for it - it's about redistributing it to people who CAN'T work for it. Tithing is just a sophisticated form of taxation working, in a way the current PAYE/ Inheritance Tax/ Schedule D and so on, quite simply can't. What is the % of the population who genuinely can't work? And where are their families? I'm not responsible for someone 400 miles away in a town I've never heard of and who's name I don't even know. His/her family are. I can understand, even if I can't agree with this attitude. I just hope you never find yourself in a position where someone 400 miles away becomes responsible for you. Actually, I suspect nowhere in the UK is 400 miles away from South Tyneside (except extreme Cornwall and Shetland) so it's kinda academic." i totally agree ,i always judge a country by how it treats its weakest people ,i didnt subscribe to the "no such thing as society" idea in the 80s and i have seen nothing to convince me with out society and looking after the weak we are pretty screwed. i only see trickle up poverty at the moment and when we hit the tipping point it will all kick off again...inner city riots,people killed etcetc ,we tend to be a rational politically placid nation but there comes a point when it kicks off,its normally when ordinary people can not feed there kids or live with basic dignity. | |||
" you always say extremist things wishy ...lol ,are you advocating we shut down the benefit system and its every fucker for himself then ? PD, you will have experienced many things over the years, the welfare state is now so out of control compared to say 1974. Are there really 2.4million people of adult working age that are so disabled that they can't do some work of some sort? Fuck this "depression" malarkey, some work would sort out 95% in a week. " So where are all these jobs coming from for these disabled people? rising unemployment....high street names falling like dominos....yet you can find jobs for 2.4 million people considered too ill to work? | |||
" What is the % of the population who genuinely can't work? And where are their families? I'm not responsible for someone 400 miles away in a town I've never heard of and who's name I don't even know. His/her family are. We live in Britain.....not India We are not responsible for our families, otherwise we would all have bloody granny annexes attached to our houses." I disagree wholeheartedly with that. The way I see it is my mum wiped my arse and fed me when I couldn't and if it ever comes down to it, she'll live with me and I'll take care of her if she can't take care of herself. That's what being a family is to me, not just being there for the good times. | |||
" you always say extremist things wishy ...lol ,are you advocating we shut down the benefit system and its every fucker for himself then ? " No, of course not, but I'd means test every single claimant stringently before approving a claim. And benefit fraudsters would do serious time in gaol if I had my way. " So where are all these jobs coming from for these disabled people? rising unemployment....high street names falling like dominos....yet you can find jobs for 2.4 million people considered too ill to work?" There aren't 2.4m jobs available, and there aren't 2.4m genuine people unable to work to fill them either. It's all statistical manipulation. | |||
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"how did this go from picnic to politics in one fell swoop??? WISHY???!!!!" Not me!! TAV and PD dropped by... fucking swarmed by actually. They started it. Honest.  | |||
" It's all very well thinking you have a house for which you paid (perhaps) 20% of the professional valuation (under the Right To Buy Scheme) and that you can sell it for so many times the purchase price. The fact remains you still need a roof over your head and HMG isn't going to provide it. No, it most certainly wasn't bought under the RTB scheme. I'm not giving our personal financial info on here to total strangers to pore over but it will be paid for by the time we retire." I thought I'd made it clear previously that, when I say 'you', I don't actually the person I'm replying to on a personal basis. I confess, however, that I'm a bit surprised that you (personally) are a bit wary of sharing 'personal financial information' on THIS thread when you've been a bit laisee faire (sp?) about the same info elsewhere. No matter. On a slightly more serious matter. I genuinely get a bit worried when someone's (anyone's) personal financial planning is done on the basis of "just tossing figures around" but that, as they say, is your call. | |||
" you always say extremist things wishy ...lol ,are you advocating we shut down the benefit system and its every fucker for himself then ? No, of course not, but I'd means test every single claimant stringently before approving a claim. And benefit fraudsters would do serious time in gaol if I had my way. So where are all these jobs coming from for these disabled people? rising unemployment....high street names falling like dominos....yet you can find jobs for 2.4 million people considered too ill to work? There aren't 2.4m jobs available, and there aren't 2.4m genuine people unable to work to fill them either. It's all statistical manipulation." So share the genuine proveable numbers with the rest of us - you know you want to. | |||
"So share the genuine proveable numbers with the rest of us - you know you want to." Tell me where Labour buried them and I'll go dig them up. | |||
"So share the genuine proveable numbers with the rest of us - you know you want to. Tell me where Labour buried them and I'll go dig them up." Now; that is actually quite funny. | |||
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" So where are all these jobs coming from for these disabled people? rising unemployment....high street names falling like dominos....yet you can find jobs for 2.4 million people considered too ill to work?" There aren't 2.4m people "too ill" to work. Why do the High Street multinationals fail? Invariably, almost certainly,too much debt. Jobs? The net population has risen by 5m over the last 10 years or so. Where is the logic of paying someone to not do a job, and paying another to come in and do that job, and in the case of Polish folks, paying them benefits based on their earnings ( around £5k per annum ) before they came. M & S. As kids we were virtually dressed head to toe in M & S stuff, affordable and made in Britain. Why not now? Granted, there are not enough jobs, there never will be again. So how excatly can the population expect to maintain, or increase, the standard of living. It can't. | |||
"On a slightly more serious matter. I genuinely get a bit worried when someone's (anyone's) personal financial planning is done on the basis of "just tossing figures around" but that, as they say, is your call." It worries me that you can't tell when someone is hypothetically speaking. I gave basic figues on what one could do with £100k if one had retired at 70 and other criteria was met but you've taken that as my life plan. It isn't. I'll do my own thing as I go but I most assuredly will not be placing my financial future in the hands of a pension broker as I simply don't trust them. Bitter experience with endowment policies taught me to be very guarded against people who think they know what's best for my money. If they know so much why are they still working and not rich and living in the lap of luxury. | |||
" you always say extremist things wishy ...lol ,are you advocating we shut down the benefit system and its every fucker for himself then ? PD, you will have experienced many things over the years, the welfare state is now so out of control compared to say 1974. Are there really 2.4million people of adult working age that are so disabled that they can't do some work of some sort? Fuck this "depression" malarkey, some work would sort out 95% in a week. " lol the incapacity and sickness benefits have been hiding the true employment figures for years ,but the doctors apply thje criteria according to the law ,you cant say that all the people on incapacity do not deserve it just as you cant say everyone on it does,for example take the 2000 + people a year who die of asbestos related disease (normally contracted in the workplace surely you wouldnt deny them the benefit in thewre final years or months,so ok you mentioned depressives ..valid point ....you chuck em off onto the job market where there are no jobs ,the employers block em as they have the depression word on there medical history ,..the jobless figures go up ,confidence drops ,the people who are chucked off go out and vote the fuckers who attacked em out ....its not going to happen is it ...and yeah i remember the seventies , i remember my dad having a new car , my mom having a new oven ,fridge ,washing machine ,bought there house and had a couple of holidays a year ..and all on one income ,and thats the biggest con of all !! | |||
"We currently have around a million under 25's fit to work but unable to get a job.....so what is the governments priority? Getting 250,000 disabled (registered and independantly tested as disabled) people back into work as soon as possible. Are the coalition afraid of upsetting the young masses? Are they potentially more of a threat to society than the disabled? Too much risk of civil unrest from these young disenfranchised masses?" Under 25s cost a lot less in direct benefits than people on DLA and similar disability/ means tested allowances. The Con Dems have the young unemployed in their sights and the proposals to change Housing Benefit regulations about single ocupancy v shared accommodation are an early example of just how badlt such legislation can be draughted. | |||
"We currently have around a million under 25's fit to work but unable to get a job.....so what is the governments priority? Getting 250,000 disabled (registered and independantly tested as disabled) people back into work as soon as possible. Are the coalition afraid of upsetting the young masses? Are they potentially more of a threat to society than the disabled? Too much risk of civil unrest from these young disenfranchised masses?" Fit to work at what? Being deadly serious, what are 25,000 media studies graduates supposed to do? Under recent legislation, the BBC cant remove the likes of Moira Stewart or Fiona Bruce. There's only so many Lorraine Kellys etc needed. So that's 24,999 gonna have to wait or do other things. I'm dreading being around when the populace realise how bad it is. | |||
"On a slightly more serious matter. I genuinely get a bit worried when someone's (anyone's) personal financial planning is done on the basis of "just tossing figures around" but that, as they say, is your call. It worries me that you can't tell when someone is hypothetically speaking. ....................." I don't do 'hypothetically'. I, like most Fabsters, live in the real world, earn in the real world and spend in the real world. 'Hypothetically' is just a smokescreen. | |||
"........... I'll do my own thing as I go but I most assuredly will not be placing my financial future in the hands of a pension broker as I simply don't trust them. Bitter experience with endowment policies taught me to be very guarded against people who think they know what's best for my money. If they know so much why are they still working and not rich and living in the lap of luxury." Oh dear. Your call. Remember Thatcher. | |||
" and yeah i remember the seventies , i remember my dad having a new car , my mom having a new oven ,fridge ,washing machine ,bought there house and had a couple of holidays a year ..and all on one income ,and thats the biggest con of all !! " What a different place we live in now when you put it like that. Jobs for life? No chance, not anymore. White goods? Throwaway items now as fixing them is not cost effective when Tescos will sell you a new one for less than the cost to fix your old one. A decent pair of shoes for my 2y/o son costs the same as 1/4 of a full tank of petrol. It used to take me half a tank of petrol to go an earn four times as much as the cost of his shoes. My brain hurts trying to work out where my break even point is after tax. | |||
"We currently have around a million under 25's fit to work but unable to get a job.....so what is the governments priority? Getting 250,000 disabled (registered and independantly tested as disabled) people back into work as soon as possible. Are the coalition afraid of upsetting the young masses? Are they potentially more of a threat to society than the disabled? Too much risk of civil unrest from these young disenfranchised masses? Fit to work at what? Being deadly serious, what are 25,000 media studies graduates supposed to do? Under recent legislation, the BBC cant remove the likes of Moira Stewart or Fiona Bruce. There's only so many Lorraine Kellys etc needed. So that's 24,999 gonna have to wait or do other things. I'm dreading being around when the populace realise how bad it is." Where did your (fictitious?) 25,000 Media Studies graduates number come from? I'm not suggesting its wrong - I just don't know how you made it up. | |||
"We currently have around a million under 25's fit to work but unable to get a job.....so what is the governments priority? Getting 250,000 disabled (registered and independantly tested as disabled) people back into work as soon as possible. Are the coalition afraid of upsetting the young masses? Are they potentially more of a threat to society than the disabled? Too much risk of civil unrest from these young disenfranchised masses? Fit to work at what? Being deadly serious, what are 25,000 media studies graduates supposed to do? Under recent legislation, the BBC cant remove the likes of Moira Stewart or Fiona Bruce. There's only so many Lorraine Kellys etc needed. So that's 24,999 gonna have to wait or do other things. I'm dreading being around when the populace realise how bad it is." the govt like media studies as it has a lot of transferble skills ,IT ,Research ,law,group working,key skills,most people who do media quals do not go on to work in the media ,the same as all philosophy degree students do not become philosophers ,thats all i want to say about that | |||
"Oh dear. Your call. Remember Thatcher." Marvellous woman. What this country needed at a time it needed a firm hand to break the unions. And the unions are trying it on again, tomorrow. Let's hope Cameron has just as good a pair of balls as Thatcher had. My only regret is that I was young during her reign and had a headful of nonsense about everyone being equal. | |||
" Oh dear. Your call. Remember Thatcher." People call Thatcher but 1) it was a fair while ago now and 2) as a country we'd have been fucked a long long time ago if it wasn't for Thatcher. | |||
"We currently have around a million under 25's fit to work but unable to get a job.....so what is the governments priority? Getting 250,000 disabled (registered and independantly tested as disabled) people back into work as soon as possible. Are the coalition afraid of upsetting the young masses? Are they potentially more of a threat to society than the disabled? Too much risk of civil unrest from these young disenfranchised masses? Fit to work at what? Being deadly serious, what are 25,000 media studies graduates supposed to do? Under recent legislation, the BBC cant remove the likes of Moira Stewart or Fiona Bruce. There's only so many Lorraine Kellys etc needed. So that's 24,999 gonna have to wait or do other things. I'm dreading being around when the populace realise how bad it is. the govt like media studies as it has a lot of transferble skills ,IT ,Research ,law,group working,key skills,most people who do media quals do not go on to work in the media ,the same as all philosophy degree students do not become philosophers ,thats all i want to say about that "Local government still swallow the 'media studies' nonsense. No one else does. | |||
"how did this go from picnic to politics in one fell swoop??? WISHY???!!!! Not me!! TAV and PD dropped by... fucking swarmed by actually. They started it. Honest. "wasnt me dont listen to him ,nothing i like more than a completely pointless debate which achieves very little ... | |||
" Where did your (fictitious?) 25,000 Media Studies graduates number come from? I'm not suggesting its wrong - I just don't know how you made it up." Precisely that. I did just simply make it up. I don't know how many of 'em there are, i don't even care, they just ain't all gonna find work. There's too many of 'em. | |||
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" Oh dear. Your call. Remember Thatcher. People call Thatcher but 1) it was a fair while ago now and 2) as a country we'd have been fucked a long long time ago if it wasn't for Thatcher. " There's a valid _iew that we're fucked BECAUSE of the Auld Whore. Interestingly enough, a handbag of hers sold for £100,000 a number of years back whilst another sold a few days ago for £25,000. That's the marketplace for which Maggie sold her soul speaking in terms which she, above all, would understand. Tomorrow's (today's) strike will be interesting. | |||
" Where did your (fictitious?) 25,000 Media Studies graduates number come from? I'm not suggesting its wrong - I just don't know how you made it up. Precisely that. I did just simply make it up. I don't know how many of 'em there are, i don't even care, they just ain't all gonna find work. There's too many of 'em. " How many is toooooooooooooo many? | |||
"Anyhow, I'm off to bed now as we have a nice day out in the country planned for later so long as all these bleedin kids off school due to lazy arse teachers not going to work don't spoil it for us. Nite all. "Is there no chimney sweeping work in Gateshead? | |||
"We currently have around a million under 25's fit to work but unable to get a job.....so what is the governments priority? Getting 250,000 disabled (registered and independantly tested as disabled) people back into work as soon as possible. Are the coalition afraid of upsetting the young masses? Are they potentially more of a threat to society than the disabled? Too much risk of civil unrest from these young disenfranchised masses? Fit to work at what? Being deadly serious, what are 25,000 media studies graduates supposed to do? Under recent legislation, the BBC cant remove the likes of Moira Stewart or Fiona Bruce. There's only so many Lorraine Kellys etc needed. So that's 24,999 gonna have to wait or do other things. I'm dreading being around when the populace realise how bad it is. the govt like media studies as it has a lot of transferble skills ,IT ,Research ,law,group working,key skills,most people who do media quals do not go on to work in the media ,the same as all philosophy degree students do not become philosophers ,thats all i want to say about that
Local government still swallow the 'media studies' nonsense. No one else does."i know a lot of people who did media and went on to get resonable jobs,but then, they were young and they may have got the jobs without ,who knows .The govt message is still transferable skills as no one has a career for life any longer, if you look ast the technical skills alone mainly IT these days ,digital wiring ,editing ,automation.,massive research component its not all bad ,and one of the main entry /inter_iew components now is guaranteeing the student does not have rose tinted glasses on ,so its a bit unfair to single out media tbh,if you look at the non redbrick\russel group uni law degrees most kids walking out with them will be lucky if they get a job as legal secretaries never mind taking silk ...so its no different really | |||
" Tomorrow's (today's) strike will be interesting." I think it will be, i don't think there is that much public support for it, not least the 200-300,000 public workers who may well lose their jobs in the next 12 months. To be fair, all politicians have fucked us up. Vast quantities of needless legislation. We are not equal, never will ne, nor should we be. | |||
"We currently have around a million under 25's fit to work but unable to get a job.....so what is the governments priority? Getting 250,000 disabled (registered and independantly tested as disabled) people back into work as soon as possible. Are the coalition afraid of upsetting the young masses? Are they potentially more of a threat to society than the disabled? Too much risk of civil unrest from these young disenfranchised masses? Fit to work at what? Being deadly serious, what are 25,000 media studies graduates supposed to do? Under recent legislation, the BBC cant remove the likes of Moira Stewart or Fiona Bruce. There's only so many Lorraine Kellys etc needed. So that's 24,999 gonna have to wait or do other things. I'm dreading being around when the populace realise how bad it is. the govt like media studies as it has a lot of transferble skills ,IT ,Research ,law,group working,key skills,most people who do media quals do not go on to work in the media ,the same as all philosophy degree students do not become philosophers ,thats all i want to say about that
Local government still swallow the 'media studies' nonsense. No one else does.
i know a lot of people who did media and went on to get resonable jobs,but then, they were young and they may have got the jobs without ,who knows .The govt message is still transferable skills as no one has a career for life any longer, if you look ast the technical skills alone mainly IT these days ,digital wiring ,editing ,automation.,massive research component its not all bad ,and one of the main entry /inter_iew components now is guaranteeing the student does not have rose tinted glasses on ,so its a bit unfair to single out media tbh,if you look at the non redbrick\russel group uni law degrees most kids walking out with them will be lucky if they get a job as legal secretaries never mind taking silk ...so its no different really
"I agree totaly, there's a hell of a lot of able kids gonna be disappointed that law is not their golden egg. Some for sure, but not all. And how productive is law to the UK? | |||
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"We currently have around a million under 25's fit to work but unable to get a job.....so what is the governments priority? Getting 250,000 disabled (registered and independantly tested as disabled) people back into work as soon as possible. Are the coalition afraid of upsetting the young masses? Are they potentially more of a threat to society than the disabled? Too much risk of civil unrest from these young disenfranchised masses? Fit to work at what? Being deadly serious, what are 25,000 media studies graduates supposed to do? Under recent legislation, the BBC cant remove the likes of Moira Stewart or Fiona Bruce. There's only so many Lorraine Kellys etc needed. So that's 24,999 gonna have to wait or do other things. I'm dreading being around when the populace realise how bad it is. the govt like media studies as it has a lot of transferble skills ,IT ,Research ,law,group working,key skills,most people who do media quals do not go on to work in the media ,the same as all philosophy degree students do not become philosophers ,thats all i want to say about that
Local government still swallow the 'media studies' nonsense. No one else does.
i know a lot of people who did media and went on to get resonable jobs,but then, they were young and they may have got the jobs without ,who knows .The govt message is still transferable skills as no one has a career for life any longer, if you look ast the technical skills alone mainly IT these days ,digital wiring ,editing ,automation.,massive research component its not all bad ,and one of the main entry /inter_iew components now is guaranteeing the student does not have rose tinted glasses on ,so its a bit unfair to single out media tbh,if you look at the non redbrick\russel group uni law degrees most kids walking out with them will be lucky if they get a job as legal secretaries never mind taking silk ...so its no different really
I agree totaly, there's a hell of a lot of able kids gonna be disappointed that law is not their golden egg. Some for sure, but not all.
And how productive is law to the UK?"especially now with online conveyancing and divorce its almost an automated process now ,the big 4 recruit all of there yearly legal eagles from year 1 oxbridge or cantab students helping to fund them through. the non redbricks kids dont stand a chance tbh its a pisser | |||
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"I have worked in the public sector all my life and paid into a 'luxery' pension scheme - the terms of my pension will be changed soon I've no doubt. Do I think I deserve this luxery pension, yes I fecking do. I chose to work where I did because I wanted to make a difference to someones life, albeit in a tiny way. In my earlier roles I've taken abuse from the public nearly every day of my working life, and I've worked long hours, and I've had annual leave cancelled at short notice and I've been placed in challenging situations. I accept it was part of my role and I love every minute of it. Before people spark on about the starting salaries which to be honest are not huge whacking salaries, think about the immense amount of responsibility that is attached to those public sector roles. You all expect a decent education for your kids, you all expect to be protected by the police, you all expect children to be safe from abuse, you all expect to be treated and cured for any illness. The people working in those roles work bloody hard for their salary and their pension. None of them have bonuses or christmas handouts or christmas parties, I think the pushy salesman selling crap to people who don't need it or can ill afford it, giving the hard pressure sell for the sole intention of getting a bonus at the end of the year is a job I could never do. I think public sector workers have a huge responsibility, work long hours in a challenging role and for that I think they are entitled to the pension they paid into and the terms and conditions they were promised. " I too am in the same position as well, I've worked all my life in government service and when I retire I want to be able to live comfortably not just exist | |||
" ............. And how productive is law to the UK? especially now with online conveyancing and divorce its almost an automated process now ,the big 4 recruit all of there yearly legal eagles from year 1 oxbridge or cantab students helping to fund them through. the non redbricks kids dont stand a chance tbh its a pisser " Solicitors make more money from sorting out the nonsense that on-line conveyancing and similar activities generates than they earn from doing the job properly in the first place. | |||
