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All by myself? (extra thread)
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If anyone else had further comments, I'd love to hear them. And  for the messages in my box (ooooerrrr!) 
Here's the blurb:
"I'd say that the feeling of being unremarkable is tied to loneliness by the fear of rejection. When I feel unremarkable I don't have the interest nor confidence in meeting people because I feel like I have nothing to offer to them and therefore they might reject my presence, which leaves me lonely. Loneliness genuinely hurts, I don't think it's a masquerade. We are biologically made to be social beings. We are all attention-seekers. We all need attention to fulfill this biological necessity to be and feel present; to verify that we're really here; that we matter; that we are remarkable in some way. And if we understand how necessary and empowering attention is for a human being, we should feel empowered to realize we can also be a source that gives it." (Vice)
I know I'm guilty of using this site to counter negative beliefs through attention-seeking, and it works although I'm conscious there is a simultaneous carving of deeper self-doubt. It's often a tightrope walk, but then I am prone to overthinking. Probably just need some sex, eh?!
How often, if at all, do you feel lonely? Would having a primary partner (if you don't already) assist in countering loneliness or do you not look to another to fill a loneliness void? If you're in a relationship, do you ever feel alone or experience deep loneliness even if the partnership is strong? If yes, why do you think this happens? Does self-doubt in your remarkability prevent you from making connections? Do you attention-seek? | |||
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"FAF?" Totally | |||
"FAF? Totally "Wait there. Don't move. | |||
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"FAF? Totally
Wait there.
Don't move."Can... Can I come join? | |||
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 | |||
"I've realised that I'm a bit of an insensitive twat reading through the previous thread. Attention seeking isn't always a bad thing and I can actually be quite twuntish to those who I perceive as doing so. Apologies to those I have been that way with - I think I sometimes forget that people can be multifaceted and more nuanced than they appear. (Unless you display racism, misogyny or absolute horrid ways. No apologies for you)." To be fair, if someone's being an utter tit to get attention, like any attention is good attention, I can get pretty condescending. | |||
"I've realised that I'm a bit of an insensitive twat reading through the previous thread. Attention seeking isn't always a bad thing and I can actually be quite twuntish to those who I perceive as doing so. Apologies to those I have been that way with - I think I sometimes forget that people can be multifaceted and more nuanced than they appear. (Unless you display racism, misogyny or absolute horrid ways. No apologies for you)." Always boo to the bigots! And you're lovely just the way you are, Meli. Communication is an exchange and flow, and the beautiful connection bit is the little gap in between intent and receipt where both people stretch a little to touch. | |||
"FAF?" Now why does nobody ever ask me that? 
I'll admit that even after a week I'm finding this to be a frustrating experience. Not that I was expecting an instant hookup (because I wasn't, and that's not really my thing anyway) - but because sometimes it's like shouting into a dark cave. (Not an innuendo.)
Seriously. Sometimes all I want is to be noticed. Not in an attention-seeking way, but to be accepted, and to feel like I'm good enough for someone. I don't know if a relationship would help, though I know my insecurity isn't wholly physical (but that's a significant proportion of the issue). A long, quiet cuddle in a darkened room would go a long way towards making me feel more human sometimes.
Any thoughts?
And Meli - who doesn't do that sometimes? I know I've pushed back at people who were attention seeking, just through not understanding why at the time. And I'm sure I'll do so again in future. So... I wouldn't say it makes you a twunt. Just human. We're not all behavioural experts, and until someone opens up, it isn't always easy understanding why they behave the way they do. | |||
"FAF? Totally
Wait there.
Don't move.
Can... Can I come join? "You're both welcome. | |||
"FAF? Totally
Wait there.
Don't move.
Can... Can I come join? "Go on then | |||
"I don't think of myself as an attention seeker, I just have ideas and run with them "From what i saw before, a lot of people who see themselves as attention seekers are people who just want something to bring positivity to their life. I dont have a problem with how anybody does that because we all do, personally i get positive when im singing or playing with my dogs and i think they work quite well for me but its each to their own | |||
"I feel the need for male contact when I'm sad. I don't often get sad but when I do I wish I had a man right there to hold and cuddle me till I felt better. Most of the time I'm fine and don't feel a desperate need for a man as I can face stuff on my own. This is why I would like a good FWB, someone to be there for you when you need it. But also someone who can make a good day great with their company. But no clinginess, excessive demands on my time, trying to control me etc." It's a complex dance to learn to not be too clingy but also be authentic as to when you need support. Here's to finding it with the right person/people | |||
"FAF? Totally
Wait there.
Don't move.
Can... Can I come join?
Go on then "You are both beautiful, beautiful women. Thank you!  | |||
"I don't think of myself as an attention seeker, I just have ideas and run with them "Another comment? Kinky minx you attention whore
(Jokes, beautiful!!) | |||
"I feel the need for male contact when I'm sad. I don't often get sad but when I do I wish I had a man right there to hold and cuddle me till I felt better. Most of the time I'm fine and don't feel a desperate need for a man as I can face stuff on my own. This is why I would like a good FWB, someone to be there for you when you need it. But also someone who can make a good day great with their company. But no clinginess, excessive demands on my time, trying to control me etc." Totally agree with you.....but in replacing the man for a woman | |||
"I feel the need for male contact when I'm sad. I don't often get sad but when I do I wish I had a man right there to hold and cuddle me till I felt better. Most of the time I'm fine and don't feel a desperate need for a man as I can face stuff on my own. This is why I would like a good FWB, someone to be there for you when you need it. But also someone who can make a good day great with their company. But no clinginess, excessive demands on my time, trying to control me etc. It's a complex dance to learn to not be too clingy but also be authentic as to when you need support. Here's to finding it with the right person/people "Thank you, ideally someone not too far away | |||
"I don't think of myself as an attention seeker, I just have ideas and run with them
Another comment? Kinky minx you attention whore
(Jokes, beautiful!!)"Oooo errrr  | |||
"FAF? Now why does nobody ever ask me that?
I'll admit that even after a week I'm finding this to be a frustrating experience. Not that I was expecting an instant hookup (because I wasn't, and that's not really my thing anyway) - but because sometimes it's like shouting into a dark cave. (Not an innuendo.)
Seriously. Sometimes all I want is to be noticed. Not in an attention-seeking way, but to be accepted, and to feel like I'm good enough for someone. I don't know if a relationship would help, though I know my insecurity isn't wholly physical (but that's a significant proportion of the issue). A long, quiet cuddle in a darkened room would go a long way towards making me feel more human sometimes.
Any thoughts?
And Meli - who doesn't do that sometimes? I know I've pushed back at people who were attention seeking, just through not understanding why at the time. And I'm sure I'll do so again in future. So... I wouldn't say it makes you a twunt. Just human. We're not all behavioural experts, and until someone opens up, it isn't always easy understanding why they behave the way they do."Well said that man! ((hugs)) | |||
"I don't think of myself as an attention seeker, I just have ideas and run with them
From what i saw before, a lot of people who see themselves as attention seekers are people who just want something to bring positivity to their life. I dont have a problem with how anybody does that because we all do, personally i get positive when im singing or playing with my dogs and i think they work quite well for me but its each to their own"When I started the MM threads I was fed up with the negativity in the forum and wanted something cheerful, not as a look at me. Same with the very first Tea Party thread and look where that ended up | |||
"I don't think of myself as an attention seeker, I just have ideas and run with them
From what i saw before, a lot of people who see themselves as attention seekers are people who just want something to bring positivity to their life. I dont have a problem with how anybody does that because we all do, personally i get positive when im singing or playing with my dogs and i think they work quite well for me but its each to their own"
Do your dogs singalong? | |||
"I've realised that I'm a bit of an insensitive twat reading through the previous thread. Attention seeking isn't always a bad thing and I can actually be quite twuntish to those who I perceive as doing so. Apologies to those I have been that way with - I think I sometimes forget that people can be multifaceted and more nuanced than they appear. (Unless you display racism, misogyny or absolute horrid ways. No apologies for you)." You are | |||
"I feel the need for male contact when I'm sad. I don't often get sad but when I do I wish I had a man right there to hold and cuddle me till I felt better. Most of the time I'm fine and don't feel a desperate need for a man as I can face stuff on my own. This is why I would like a good FWB, someone to be there for you when you need it. But also someone who can make a good day great with their company. But no clinginess, excessive demands on my time, trying to control me etc. Totally agree with you.....but in replacing the man for a woman "
Kindred spirits! | |||
"I feel the need for male contact when I'm sad. I don't often get sad but when I do I wish I had a man right there to hold and cuddle me till I felt better. Most of the time I'm fine and don't feel a desperate need for a man as I can face stuff on my own. This is why I would like a good FWB, someone to be there for you when you need it. But also someone who can make a good day great with their company. But no clinginess, excessive demands on my time, trying to control me etc. It's a complex dance to learn to not be too clingy but also be authentic as to when you need support. Here's to finding it with the right person/people
Thank you, ideally someone not too far away "Calling all the lovely men in KM's area to KM's 'area'  | |||
"I don't think of myself as an attention seeker, I just have ideas and run with them
From what i saw before, a lot of people who see themselves as attention seekers are people who just want something to bring positivity to their life. I dont have a problem with how anybody does that because we all do, personally i get positive when im singing or playing with my dogs and i think they work quite well for me but its each to their own
When I started the MM threads I was fed up with the negativity in the forum and wanted something cheerful, not as a look at me.
Same with the very first Tea Party thread and look where that ended up "Mumma Positivity ((hug)) | |||
"I feel the need for male contact when I'm sad. I don't often get sad but when I do I wish I had a man right there to hold and cuddle me till I felt better. Most of the time I'm fine and don't feel a desperate need for a man as I can face stuff on my own. This is why I would like a good FWB, someone to be there for you when you need it. But also someone who can make a good day great with their company. But no clinginess, excessive demands on my time, trying to control me etc. Totally agree with you.....but in replacing the man for a woman
Kindred spirits!"Nah she state "someone close by" | |||
"I've realised that I'm a bit of an insensitive twat reading through the previous thread. Attention seeking isn't always a bad thing and I can actually be quite twuntish to those who I perceive as doing so. Apologies to those I have been that way with - I think I sometimes forget that people can be multifaceted and more nuanced than they appear. (Unless you display racism, misogyny or absolute horrid ways. No apologies for you). You are " | |||
"I feel the need for male contact when I'm sad. I don't often get sad but when I do I wish I had a man right there to hold and cuddle me till I felt better. Most of the time I'm fine and don't feel a desperate need for a man as I can face stuff on my own. This is why I would like a good FWB, someone to be there for you when you need it. But also someone who can make a good day great with their company. But no clinginess, excessive demands on my time, trying to control me etc. Totally agree with you.....but in replacing the man for a woman
Kindred spirits!
Nah she state "someone close by" "'in spirit' | |||
"I feel the need for male contact when I'm sad. I don't often get sad but when I do I wish I had a man right there to hold and cuddle me till I felt better. Most of the time I'm fine and don't feel a desperate need for a man as I can face stuff on my own. This is why I would like a good FWB, someone to be there for you when you need it. But also someone who can make a good day great with their company. But no clinginess, excessive demands on my time, trying to control me etc. Totally agree with you.....but in replacing the man for a woman
Kindred spirits!
Nah she state "someone close by"
'in spirit' "Oh ok then | |||
"I don't think of myself as an attention seeker, I just have ideas and run with them
From what i saw before, a lot of people who see themselves as attention seekers are people who just want something to bring positivity to their life. I dont have a problem with how anybody does that because we all do, personally i get positive when im singing or playing with my dogs and i think they work quite well for me but its each to their own
Do your dogs singalong? "Certain songs they are critical of lol | |||
"Thank you, ideally someone not too far away
Calling all the lovely men in KM's area to KM's 'area' "Yes, great idea | |||
"Thank you, ideally someone not too far away
Calling all the lovely men in KM's area to KM's 'area'
Yes, great idea "Now I'm attention seeking for an adorable FWB  | |||
"I don't think of myself as an attention seeker, I just have ideas and run with them
From what i saw before, a lot of people who see themselves as attention seekers are people who just want something to bring positivity to their life. I dont have a problem with how anybody does that because we all do, personally i get positive when im singing or playing with my dogs and i think they work quite well for me but its each to their own
When I started the MM threads I was fed up with the negativity in the forum and wanted something cheerful, not as a look at me.
Same with the very first Tea Party thread and look where that ended up "Same for me when I first started doing the Nocturnal roll call threads and subsequent socials. Was nice to chat to people in a ppositive thread, it took on a life of it's own but was always nice to make new feiemds because of it. | |||
| |||
"Thank you, ideally someone not too far away
Calling all the lovely men in KM's area to KM's 'area'
Yes, great idea
Now I'm attention seeking for an adorable FWB "Totally allowed | |||
"I don't think of myself as an attention seeker, I just have ideas and run with them
From what i saw before, a lot of people who see themselves as attention seekers are people who just want something to bring positivity to their life. I dont have a problem with how anybody does that because we all do, personally i get positive when im singing or playing with my dogs and i think they work quite well for me but its each to their own
When I started the MM threads I was fed up with the negativity in the forum and wanted something cheerful, not as a look at me.
Same with the very first Tea Party thread and look where that ended up
Same for me when I first started doing the Nocturnal roll call threads and subsequent socials.
Was nice to chat to people in a ppositive thread, it took on a life of it's own but was always nice to make new feiemds because of it."Will you be my feiemd? | |||
"I lost my wife just over a year ago. I changed my drinking habits and went to a new pub I was "adopted" by three females who are now friends I call them the 3 musketeers! They have been there for me and it's not sexual just drinks meals and chat That's friendship and support " Sorry for your loss, pleased for your gain! How lovely, that makes you d'artagnan! | |||
| |||
"I don't think of myself as an attention seeker, I just have ideas and run with them
From what i saw before, a lot of people who see themselves as attention seekers are people who just want something to bring positivity to their life. I dont have a problem with how anybody does that because we all do, personally i get positive when im singing or playing with my dogs and i think they work quite well for me but its each to their own
When I started the MM threads I was fed up with the negativity in the forum and wanted something cheerful, not as a look at me.
Same with the very first Tea Party thread and look where that ended up
Same for me when I first started doing the Nocturnal roll call threads and subsequent socials.
Was nice to chat to people in a ppositive thread, it took on a life of it's own but was always nice to make new feiemds because of it.
Will you be my feiemd? "Bloody phone hasn't been same since the update swear my keyboard has gotten smaller  | |||
"We all look for something to ease the loneliness in our lives ,we all do it in different ways which makes the fab chat so interesting and diverse ,there's nothing worse than being in a group (in public) yet feeling so alone ..to the ladies here apologising for being a taunt or anything you'd like to put ..why apologise for being yourself ?....never apologise for being who you are ,there's a reason your who you are ..because your not her or her or him ..your you ..unique in a world of unique people ,some people can't cope with honesty or rejection ....it's what makes us human and attracted to different things and people Sorry this is long and I hope it's come across ok I'm better at talking than typing my bad But to you all that need a hug ,here's one from me to you all ..we all need one now and then " Thank you, that came across as lovely -- and hugs are appreciated and reciprocated. | |||
"I don't think of myself as an attention seeker, I just have ideas and run with them
From what i saw before, a lot of people who see themselves as attention seekers are people who just want something to bring positivity to their life. I dont have a problem with how anybody does that because we all do, personally i get positive when im singing or playing with my dogs and i think they work quite well for me but its each to their own
When I started the MM threads I was fed up with the negativity in the forum and wanted something cheerful, not as a look at me.
Same with the very first Tea Party thread and look where that ended up
Same for me when I first started doing the Nocturnal roll call threads and subsequent socials.
Was nice to chat to people in a ppositive thread, it took on a life of it's own but was always nice to make new feiemds because of it.
Will you be my feiemd?
Bloody phone hasn't been same since the update swear my keyboard has gotten smaller "I liked it. Very much. It's good to be feiemdly. | |||
"We all look for something to ease the loneliness in our lives ,we all do it in different ways which makes the fab chat so interesting and diverse ,there's nothing worse than being in a group (in public) yet feeling so alone ..to the ladies here apologising for being a taunt or anything you'd like to put ..why apologise for being yourself ?....never apologise for being who you are ,there's a reason your who you are ..because your not her or her or him ..your you ..unique in a world of unique people ,some people can't cope with honesty or rejection ....it's what makes us human and attracted to different things and people Sorry this is long and I hope it's come across ok I'm better at talking than typing my bad But to you all that need a hug ,here's one from me to you all ..we all need one now and then Thank you, that came across as lovely -- and hugs are appreciated and reciprocated. "Glad it did ,hug appreciated and thanks x | |||
"I lost my wife just over a year ago. I changed my drinking habits and went to a new pub I was "adopted" by three females who are now friends I call them the 3 musketeers! They have been there for me and it's not sexual just drinks meals and chat That's friendship and support " | |||
"I don't think of myself as an attention seeker, I just have ideas and run with them
From what i saw before, a lot of people who see themselves as attention seekers are people who just want something to bring positivity to their life. I dont have a problem with how anybody does that because we all do, personally i get positive when im singing or playing with my dogs and i think they work quite well for me but its each to their own
When I started the MM threads I was fed up with the negativity in the forum and wanted something cheerful, not as a look at me.
Same with the very first Tea Party thread and look where that ended up
Same for me when I first started doing the Nocturnal roll call threads and subsequent socials.
Was nice to chat to people in a ppositive thread, it took on a life of it's own but was always nice to make new feiemds because of it.
Will you be my feiemd?
Bloody phone hasn't been same since the update swear my keyboard has gotten smaller
I liked it. Very much. It's good to be feiemdly. "That's what was good about the thread and Jim's version in that it got people talking to each other and interacting without the need to feel forced. Just friendly vibes and good humour which is sometimes missing on forum threads. | |||
" Same for me when I first started doing the Nocturnal roll call threads and subsequent socials. Was nice to chat to people in a ppositive thread, it took on a life of it's own but was always nice to make new feiemds because of it. Will you be my feiemd?
Bloody phone hasn't been same since the update swear my keyboard has gotten smaller
I liked it. Very much. It's good to be feiemdly.
That's what was good about the thread and Jim's version in that it got people talking to each other and interacting without the need to feel forced. Just friendly vibes and good humour which is sometimes missing on forum threads."Exactly. It's, as was mentioned on the first thread, the idea of some human positive bodywarmth between forumites -- I love how inclusive and gentle it is. Even if you tease me!! | |||
"That's what was good about the thread and Jim's version in that it got people talking to each other and interacting without the need to feel forced. Just friendly vibes and good humour which is sometimes missing on forum threads." I think (newbie/outsider perspective) that this is missing on Fab in general. The chat room, for instance, hasn't been anywhere near as good-natured when I've been in (you just get lost in the wall of text) - and trying to strike up a friendly conversation via mail hasn't worked too well either. Which is a shame, because I don't know about you guys, but I need a bit of chemistry to want to spend time with people (socially, intimately, or otherwise), and good craic is a great way to relax and feel accepted, and get the chemistry going. At least the Lounge is a more fun forum area than, say, Politics... | |||
"That's what was good about the thread and Jim's version in that it got people talking to each other and interacting without the need to feel forced. Just friendly vibes and good humour which is sometimes missing on forum threads. I think (newbie/outsider perspective) that this is missing on Fab in general. The chat room, for instance, hasn't been anywhere near as good-natured when I've been in (you just get lost in the wall of text) - and trying to strike up a friendly conversation via mail hasn't worked too well either. Which is a shame, because I don't know about you guys, but I need a bit of chemistry to want to spend time with people (socially, intimately, or otherwise), and good craic is a great way to relax and feel accepted, and get the chemistry going. At least the Lounge is a more fun forum area than, say, Politics... "The Lounge is the place to be, stay -- keep posting -- and the socials organised from it are worth checking out when they pop up. There's some wonderful peeps here. | |||
" Same for me when I first started doing the Nocturnal roll call threads and subsequent socials. Was nice to chat to people in a ppositive thread, it took on a life of it's own but was always nice to make new feiemds because of it. Will you be my feiemd?
Bloody phone hasn't been same since the update swear my keyboard has gotten smaller
I liked it. Very much. It's good to be feiemdly.
That's what was good about the thread and Jim's version in that it got people talking to each other and interacting without the need to feel forced. Just friendly vibes and good humour which is sometimes missing on forum threads.
Exactly. It's, as was mentioned on the first thread, the idea of some human positive bodywarmth between forumites -- I love how inclusive and gentle it is. Even if you tease me!! "Everyone makes their mark on the forums in their own way. Some will troll, some will be confrontational but as long as people like you reserve the right to remain joyously positive the balance in the force will even out. Don't change who you are embrace it | |||
"The Lounge is the place to be, stay -- keep posting -- and the socials organised from it are worth checking out when they pop up. There's some wonderful peeps here. "I've been pondering the socials. Thought about dipping a toe in the club scene, though I'm nowhere near brave enough for that yet - but an afternoon in the pub with a dozen folks with no pressure... well, it'd leave me exhausted but it's certainly more manageable and less daunting. | |||
" Same for me when I first started doing the Nocturnal roll call threads and subsequent socials. Was nice to chat to people in a ppositive thread, it took on a life of it's own but was always nice to make new feiemds because of it. Will you be my feiemd?
Bloody phone hasn't been same since the update swear my keyboard has gotten smaller
I liked it. Very much. It's good to be feiemdly.
That's what was good about the thread and Jim's version in that it got people talking to each other and interacting without the need to feel forced. Just friendly vibes and good humour which is sometimes missing on forum threads.
Exactly. It's, as was mentioned on the first thread, the idea of some human positive bodywarmth between forumites -- I love how inclusive and gentle it is. Even if you tease me!!
Everyone makes their mark on the forums in their own way. Some will troll, some will be confrontational but as long as people like you reserve the right to remain joyously positive the balance in the force will even out. Don't change who you are embrace it "Oh! That's the nicest thing, thank you. | |||
"The Lounge is the place to be, stay -- keep posting -- and the socials organised from it are worth checking out when they pop up. There's some wonderful peeps here.
I've been pondering the socials. Thought about dipping a toe in the club scene, though I'm nowhere near brave enough for that yet - but an afternoon in the pub with a dozen folks with no pressure... well, it'd leave me exhausted but it's certainly more manageable and less daunting."Absolutely! | |||
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" How often, if at all, do you feel lonely? If you're in a relationship, do you ever feel alone or experience deep loneliness even if the partnership is strong? If yes, why do you think this happens? Does self-doubt in your remarkability prevent you from making connections? Do you attention-seek?" Now and then I feel lonely. Even with a 'life partner' it is possible. It's nearly half ten at night and we are both working. We've barely said a word and while we are both snowed under and firing up the laptops in the evening is one way of getting through with it, we'll have 5 minutes cuddle and then off to sleep. Others times just having her there means that I don't feel lonely. In vanilla world and partly here, I don't think that I am anything special so connections can be difficult. Here I have far fewer boundaries so yes I attention seek (I can hear the smirks). Probably added nothing to the discussion but my jumble of thoughts | |||
Ramblings of and old codger | |||
"Sounds very much like you are describing someone with BPD/EUPD" I think it's best to steer clear of diagnosis postulating. I'm not sure if you've clinical qualifications but it would take more to make a diagnosis (my professional life does cross into this area). However, raising knowledge about the wide gamut of mental health experience and tackling stigma is something I absolutely endorse. There are many overlapping symptoms and do remember that the same diagnosis can manifest vastly differently per person, However, loneliness is not always attributable to a difficulty with mental health and should not be conflated, | |||
"The Lounge is the place to be, stay -- keep posting -- and the socials organised from it are worth checking out when they pop up. There's some wonderful peeps here.
I've been pondering the socials. Thought about dipping a toe in the club scene, though I'm nowhere near brave enough for that yet - but an afternoon in the pub with a dozen folks with no pressure... well, it'd leave me exhausted but it's certainly more manageable and less daunting."Me and Suzy444 held a couple of social meets where we got people who were interested to meet up at a pub for dinner before heading to a club. Some of the attendees had never been to a club before so was nice for them to chat over dinner to the club goers to ease their nerves. Then once at the club they didn't feel so nervous as they then knew people there so made a great night for all involved. | |||
"Op you write some wonderful threads Thank you" Thank you, Thursday. Happy Monday! | |||
" How often, if at all, do you feel lonely? If you're in a relationship, do you ever feel alone or experience deep loneliness even if the partnership is strong? If yes, why do you think this happens? Does self-doubt in your remarkability prevent you from making connections? Do you attention-seek? Now and then I feel lonely. Even with a 'life partner' it is possible. It's nearly half ten at night and we are both working. We've barely said a word and while we are both snowed under and firing up the laptops in the evening is one way of getting through with it, we'll have 5 minutes cuddle and then off to sleep. Others times just having her there means that I don't feel lonely. In vanilla world and partly here, I don't think that I am anything special so connections can be difficult. Here I have far fewer boundaries so yes I attention seek (I can hear the smirks). Probably added nothing to the discussion but my jumble of thoughts" A valid and welcome addition, Swing. And we benefit from having you here on the forums. | |||
"Um! I rarely feel lonely, never married but Think I have had a good life despite quite a few scars! I did feel it a bit this xmas as I had moved and was further away from friends and family so had to adjust... I recall many. many years back, being involved in a class where we were doing a sort of...psychological profiling where we had to identify an image to describe ourselves....I picked a lighthouse....a sign of safety, a welcoming site, re-assurance, as I explained my choice...but...don't get too close...jagged rocks below....this shocked my classmates, they saw me as a quiet, friendly person.... I guess age and experience gives us the confidence to accept/confront our vulnerabilities yet at the same time, we have lost the abandon to embrace possibilities which we had in our youth.... Apologies Estella...
Ramblings of and old codger "What a beautiful self-reflective image! Thank you. Do you wish the rocks were less jagged and barrier-like? | |||
"The Lounge is the place to be, stay -- keep posting -- and the socials organised from it are worth checking out when they pop up. There's some wonderful peeps here.
I've been pondering the socials. Thought about dipping a toe in the club scene, though I'm nowhere near brave enough for that yet - but an afternoon in the pub with a dozen folks with no pressure... well, it'd leave me exhausted but it's certainly more manageable and less daunting.
Me and Suzy444 held a couple of social meets where we got people who were interested to meet up at a pub for dinner before heading to a club. Some of the attendees had never been to a club before so was nice for them to chat over dinner to the club goers to ease their nerves. Then once at the club they didn't feel so nervous as they then knew people there so made a great night for all involved." | |||
"However, loneliness is not always attributable to a difficulty with mental health and should not be conflated, "But each can exacerbate the other. (I've been active in mental health awareness, and in neurodiversity awareness, in recent years.) And Troy - what a bloody marvellous idea. From my point of view, something like that would work well, especially if the social was a regular pre-club thing, so a newbie could still turn up and have fun, and then decide later if they were comfortable going to the club, | |||
"Um! I rarely feel lonely, never married but Think I have had a good life despite quite a few scars! I did feel it a bit this xmas as I had moved and was further away from friends and family so had to adjust... I recall many. many years back, being involved in a class where we were doing a sort of...psychological profiling where we had to identify an image to describe ourselves....I picked a lighthouse....a sign of safety, a welcoming site, re-assurance, as I explained my choice...but...don't get too close...jagged rocks below....this shocked my classmates, they saw me as a quiet, friendly person.... I guess age and experience gives us the confidence to accept/confront our vulnerabilities yet at the same time, we have lost the abandon to embrace possibilities which we had in our youth.... Apologies Estella...
Ramblings of and old codger
What a beautiful self-reflective image! Thank you. Do you wish the rocks were less jagged and barrier-like? " They are but the light bulb has dimmed | |||
"However, loneliness is not always attributable to a difficulty with mental health and should not be conflated,
But each can exacerbate the other.
(I've been active in mental health awareness, and in neurodiversity awareness, in recent years.)
And Troy - what a bloody marvellous idea. From my point of view, something like that would work well, especially if the social was a regular pre-club thing, so a newbie could still turn up and have fun, and then decide later if they were comfortable going to the club,"Oh absolutely they can, I'm just keen we don't make sweeping diagnoses -- it's harmful. | |||
"Um! I rarely feel lonely, never married but Think I have had a good life despite quite a few scars! I did feel it a bit this xmas as I had moved and was further away from friends and family so had to adjust... I recall many. many years back, being involved in a class where we were doing a sort of...psychological profiling where we had to identify an image to describe ourselves....I picked a lighthouse....a sign of safety, a welcoming site, re-assurance, as I explained my choice...but...don't get too close...jagged rocks below....this shocked my classmates, they saw me as a quiet, friendly person.... I guess age and experience gives us the confidence to accept/confront our vulnerabilities yet at the same time, we have lost the abandon to embrace possibilities which we had in our youth.... Apologies Estella...
Ramblings of and old codger
What a beautiful self-reflective image! Thank you. Do you wish the rocks were less jagged and barrier-like?
They are but the light bulb has dimmed "Awwwwww ((hugs)) | |||
| |||
"However, loneliness is not always attributable to a difficulty with mental health and should not be conflated,
But each can exacerbate the other.
(I've been active in mental health awareness, and in neurodiversity awareness, in recent years.)
And Troy - what a bloody marvellous idea. From my point of view, something like that would work well, especially if the social was a regular pre-club thing, so a newbie could still turn up and have fun, and then decide later if they were comfortable going to the club,"That was the idea, we'd all talked on the threas for ages so dwcided on a social to put names to faces. Gave people the push they'd needed to get to a club but with no pressure as it was up to them. Think doing another one would be a great idea. | |||
"I like my alone time and rarely feel lonesome. But every now and then I do feel a tiny bit attention seeky. I'm maybe too private about that and the ensuing lack can send me into a momentary grump; whereas I am very good at recognising the signs it is needed from those people close to me." Yes! I often find it's those I'm best at spotting it in are actually the worst at seeing the need in me -- perhaps my strength in supporting them affects their view of my vulnerabilities. | |||
"However, loneliness is not always attributable to a difficulty with mental health and should not be conflated,
But each can exacerbate the other.
(I've been active in mental health awareness, and in neurodiversity awareness, in recent years.)
And Troy - what a bloody marvellous idea. From my point of view, something like that would work well, especially if the social was a regular pre-club thing, so a newbie could still turn up and have fun, and then decide later if they were comfortable going to the club,
That was the idea, we'd all talked on the threas for ages so dwcided on a social to put names to faces. Gave people the push they'd needed to get to a club but with no pressure as it was up to them.
Think doing another one would be a great idea."You up for the challenge? The middle of the country one?  | |||
"Oh absolutely they can, I'm just keen we don't make sweeping diagnoses -- it's harmful. " I say exactly the same thing. You can suspect, you can point someone who ASKS to resources or advise them to speak to their GP - but diagnosing someone as an amateur is really a bad thing, and it's imperative that diagnostics be left to the professionals. Anyway. Change of subject. Happy stuff. Er... | |||
"Just continuing on from the first thread: https://m.fabswingers.com/forum/lounge/617859 Thank you to those who inputted at the end, apologies I didn't get a chance to acknowledge or respond to comments. Also welcome to the new-to-forum commenters.
If anyone else had further comments, I'd love to hear them. And for the messages in my box (ooooerrrr!)
Here's the blurb:
"I'd say that the feeling of being unremarkable is tied to loneliness by the fear of rejection. When I feel unremarkable I don't have the interest nor confidence in meeting people because I feel like I have nothing to offer to them and therefore they might reject my presence, which leaves me lonely. Loneliness genuinely hurts, I don't think it's a masquerade. We are biologically made to be social beings. We are all attention-seekers. We all need attention to fulfill this biological necessity to be and feel present; to verify that we're really here; that we matter; that we are remarkable in some way. And if we understand how necessary and empowering attention is for a human being, we should feel empowered to realize we can also be a source that gives it." (Vice)
I know I'm guilty of using this site to counter negative beliefs through attention-seeking, and it works although I'm conscious there is a simultaneous carving of deeper self-doubt. It's often a tightrope walk, but then I am prone to overthinking. Probably just need some sex, eh?!
How often, if at all, do you feel lonely? Would having a primary partner (if you don't already) assist in countering loneliness or do you not look to another to fill a loneliness void? If you're in a relationship, do you ever feel alone or experience deep loneliness even if the partnership is strong? If yes, why do you think this happens? Does self-doubt in your remarkability prevent you from making connections? Do you attention-seek?"Deep???? | |||
"However, loneliness is not always attributable to a difficulty with mental health and should not be conflated,
But each can exacerbate the other.
(I've been active in mental health awareness, and in neurodiversity awareness, in recent years.)
And Troy - what a bloody marvellous idea. From my point of view, something like that would work well, especially if the social was a regular pre-club thing, so a newbie could still turn up and have fun, and then decide later if they were comfortable going to the club,
That was the idea, we'd all talked on the threas for ages so dwcided on a social to put names to faces. Gave people the push they'd needed to get to a club but with no pressure as it was up to them.
Think doing another one would be a great idea.
You up for the challenge? The middle of the country one? "The two we did were at Jaydees club which was fairly central-ish and a good club for any newbies. I'm up for organising one if people are interested and have any suggestions to locations etc. | |||
"Oh absolutely they can, I'm just keen we don't make sweeping diagnoses -- it's harmful. I say exactly the same thing. You can suspect, you can point someone who ASKS to resources or advise them to speak to their GP - but diagnosing someone as an amateur is really a bad thing, and it's imperative that diagnostics be left to the professionals. Anyway. Change of subject. Happy stuff. Er... " | |||
"Just continuing on from the first thread: https://m.fabswingers.com/forum/lounge/617859 Thank you to those who inputted at the end, apologies I didn't get a chance to acknowledge or respond to comments. Also welcome to the new-to-forum commenters.
If anyone else had further comments, I'd love to hear them. And for the messages in my box (ooooerrrr!)
Here's the blurb:
"I'd say that the feeling of being unremarkable is tied to loneliness by the fear of rejection. When I feel unremarkable I don't have the interest nor confidence in meeting people because I feel like I have nothing to offer to them and therefore they might reject my presence, which leaves me lonely. Loneliness genuinely hurts, I don't think it's a masquerade. We are biologically made to be social beings. We are all attention-seekers. We all need attention to fulfill this biological necessity to be and feel present; to verify that we're really here; that we matter; that we are remarkable in some way. And if we understand how necessary and empowering attention is for a human being, we should feel empowered to realize we can also be a source that gives it." (Vice)
I know I'm guilty of using this site to counter negative beliefs through attention-seeking, and it works although I'm conscious there is a simultaneous carving of deeper self-doubt. It's often a tightrope walk, but then I am prone to overthinking. Probably just need some sex, eh?!
How often, if at all, do you feel lonely? Would having a primary partner (if you don't already) assist in countering loneliness or do you not look to another to fill a loneliness void? If you're in a relationship, do you ever feel alone or experience deep loneliness even if the partnership is strong? If yes, why do you think this happens? Does self-doubt in your remarkability prevent you from making connections? Do you attention-seek?
Deep????"I am. | |||
"However, loneliness is not always attributable to a difficulty with mental health and should not be conflated,
But each can exacerbate the other.
(I've been active in mental health awareness, and in neurodiversity awareness, in recent years.)
And Troy - what a bloody marvellous idea. From my point of view, something like that would work well, especially if the social was a regular pre-club thing, so a newbie could still turn up and have fun, and then decide later if they were comfortable going to the club,
That was the idea, we'd all talked on the threas for ages so dwcided on a social to put names to faces. Gave people the push they'd needed to get to a club but with no pressure as it was up to them.
Think doing another one would be a great idea.
You up for the challenge? The middle of the country one?
The two we did were at Jaydees club which was fairly central-ish and a good club for any newbies. I'm up for organising one if people are interested and have any suggestions to locations etc. "If you build it, I will cum. | |||
"Just continuing on from the first thread: https://m.fabswingers.com/forum/lounge/617859 Thank you to those who inputted at the end, apologies I didn't get a chance to acknowledge or respond to comments. Also welcome to the new-to-forum commenters.
If anyone else had further comments, I'd love to hear them. And for the messages in my box (ooooerrrr!)
Here's the blurb:
"I'd say that the feeling of being unremarkable is tied to loneliness by the fear of rejection. When I feel unremarkable I don't have the interest nor confidence in meeting people because I feel like I have nothing to offer to them and therefore they might reject my presence, which leaves me lonely. Loneliness genuinely hurts, I don't think it's a masquerade. We are biologically made to be social beings. We are all attention-seekers. We all need attention to fulfill this biological necessity to be and feel present; to verify that we're really here; that we matter; that we are remarkable in some way. And if we understand how necessary and empowering attention is for a human being, we should feel empowered to realize we can also be a source that gives it." (Vice)
I know I'm guilty of using this site to counter negative beliefs through attention-seeking, and it works although I'm conscious there is a simultaneous carving of deeper self-doubt. It's often a tightrope walk, but then I am prone to overthinking. Probably just need some sex, eh?!
How often, if at all, do you feel lonely? Would having a primary partner (if you don't already) assist in countering loneliness or do you not look to another to fill a loneliness void? If you're in a relationship, do you ever feel alone or experience deep loneliness even if the partnership is strong? If yes, why do you think this happens? Does self-doubt in your remarkability prevent you from making connections? Do you attention-seek?
Deep????
I am. "Going well on this thread Estella | |||
"However, loneliness is not always attributable to a difficulty with mental health and should not be conflated,
But each can exacerbate the other.
(I've been active in mental health awareness, and in neurodiversity awareness, in recent years.)
And Troy - what a bloody marvellous idea. From my point of view, something like that would work well, especially if the social was a regular pre-club thing, so a newbie could still turn up and have fun, and then decide later if they were comfortable going to the club,
That was the idea, we'd all talked on the threas for ages so dwcided on a social to put names to faces. Gave people the push they'd needed to get to a club but with no pressure as it was up to them.
Think doing another one would be a great idea.
You up for the challenge? The middle of the country one?
The two we did were at Jaydees club which was fairly central-ish and a good club for any newbies. I'm up for organising one if people are interested and have any suggestions to locations etc.
If you build it, I will cum. "Sounds like a plan then | |||
" Deep???? I am.
Going well on this thread Estella "Thank you. | |||
" The two we did were at Jaydees club which was fairly central-ish and a good club for any newbies. I'm up for organising one if people are interested and have any suggestions to locations etc.
If you build it, I will cum.
Sounds like a plan then " | |||
| |||
"You know, suddenly I'm wondering whether there would be any mileage in having a selective (invite-only) social for the forums folk, perhaps without the club element. Not that the club wouldn't be a fun option, but I think some of the people I've been interacting with today would just be great to hang out with. (And okay, I've perved at one or two of them a little, but I'm not exactly desperate to drag them off to a dark corner.) "This is exactly what KinkyMinx, Hatter and Diamondjoe's Secret Tea Party in London is. | |||
"You know, suddenly I'm wondering whether there would be any mileage in having a selective (invite-only) social for the forums folk, perhaps without the club element. Not that the club wouldn't be a fun option, but I think some of the people I've been interacting with today would just be great to hang out with. (And okay, I've perved at one or two of them a little, but I'm not exactly desperate to drag them off to a dark corner.)
This is exactly what KinkyMinx, Hatter and Diamondjoe's Secret Tea Party in London is. "MrsSB and Hanky Panky usually organise a sort of flat cap version somewhere in the north as well. All pies and whippets | |||
| |||
"You know, suddenly I'm wondering whether there would be any mileage in having a selective (invite-only) social for the forums folk, perhaps without the club element. Not that the club wouldn't be a fun option, but I think some of the people I've been interacting with today would just be great to hang out with. (And okay, I've perved at one or two of them a little, but I'm not exactly desperate to drag them off to a dark corner.)
This is exactly what KinkyMinx, Hatter and Diamondjoe's Secret Tea Party in London is.
MrsSB and Hanky Panky usually organise a sort of flat cap version somewhere in the north as well. All pies and whippets "I love a pie and a whippet. | |||
"Ah, I see. Well I shall have to keep an ear to the ground! (But as someone who's lived in a few different parts of the country, I may travel. Sure, home is the north, but I'd love to revisit Leicester or something, or even spend more time in Liverpool. Less keen on going back to London, but there are bits of it I miss!)" | |||
"I love a pie and a whippet. " Do you want a flat cap, a basket of racing pigeons, and a painting by LS Lowry to go with your stereotype?  | |||
"I love a pie and a whippet. Do you want a flat cap, a basket of racing pigeons, and a painting by LS Lowry to go with your stereotype? "No. I genuinely love pie and whippets. | |||
"Just continuing on from the first thread: https://m.fabswingers.com/forum/lounge/617859 Thank you to those who inputted at the end, apologies I didn't get a chance to acknowledge or respond to comments. Also welcome to the new-to-forum commenters.
If anyone else had further comments, I'd love to hear them. And for the messages in my box (ooooerrrr!)
Here's the blurb:
"I'd say that the feeling of being unremarkable is tied to loneliness by the fear of rejection. When I feel unremarkable I don't have the interest nor confidence in meeting people because I feel like I have nothing to offer to them and therefore they might reject my presence, which leaves me lonely. Loneliness genuinely hurts, I don't think it's a masquerade. We are biologically made to be social beings. We are all attention-seekers. We all need attention to fulfill this biological necessity to be and feel present; to verify that we're really here; that we matter; that we are remarkable in some way. And if we understand how necessary and empowering attention is for a human being, we should feel empowered to realize we can also be a source that gives it." (Vice)
I know I'm guilty of using this site to counter negative beliefs through attention-seeking, and it works although I'm conscious there is a simultaneous carving of deeper self-doubt. It's often a tightrope walk, but then I am prone to overthinking. Probably just need some sex, eh?!
How often, if at all, do you feel lonely? Would having a primary partner (if you don't already) assist in countering loneliness or do you not look to another to fill a loneliness void? If you're in a relationship, do you ever feel alone or experience deep loneliness even if the partnership is strong? If yes, why do you think this happens? Does self-doubt in your remarkability prevent you from making connections? Do you attention-seek?
Deep????
I am. "But so true. X | |||
"No. I genuinely love pie and whippets. " I don't know about the whippets, but I genuinely love pie. And I have a flat cap. So... yeah. | |||
| |||
"Didn't see the original post and don't have time to read all the posts here ATM, so apologies if I'm duplicating what anyone else has said, but an interesting thread I wanted to comment on. I think we're all whole people and our sexuality is entwined with many things. I realised that I used sex or more accurately sexual adventures as procrastination when I was about to do something scary. It gave validation without putting myself on the line. I get off on a woman's pleasure. And so I usually put in a fair bit of effort into the woman being satisfied. That's where I get my excitement from. So sometimes, more in relationships where emotions get more complex than in one offs, I have thought why have I spent hours getting her off for something that could have been as pleasurable for me alone or a quickie. I realised then that sex was more of an ego thing for me. I needed the validation of knowing I could satisfy her and be wanted. That was more the driving force than raw sexual release you would think motivates. " Thank you for your comment, that was really interesting. And satisfied me fully | |||
" How often, if at all, do you feel lonely? If you're in a relationship, do you ever feel alone or experience deep loneliness even if the partnership is strong? If yes, why do you think this happens? Does self-doubt in your remarkability prevent you from making connections? Do you attention-seek? Now and then I feel lonely. Even with a 'life partner' it is possible. It's nearly half ten at night and we are both working. We've barely said a word and while we are both snowed under and firing up the laptops in the evening is one way of getting through with it, we'll have 5 minutes cuddle and then off to sleep. Others times just having her there means that I don't feel lonely. In vanilla world and partly here, I don't think that I am anything special so connections can be difficult. Here I have far fewer boundaries so yes I attention seek (I can hear the smirks). Probably added nothing to the discussion but my jumble of thoughts" I think the thing about loneliness is it's subjective. A hermit can be happy alone. You would think the loneliest people are older people with fewer interactions, yet actually the loneliest people from research is teenagers. Because it's the perception of what other people are doing in comparison that drives how we feel. We live in a Facebook and Instagram world where people are posting about their wonderful life, just before they commit suicide. So our comparisons are skewed causing more loneliness. | |||
" How often, if at all, do you feel lonely? If you're in a relationship, do you ever feel alone or experience deep loneliness even if the partnership is strong? If yes, why do you think this happens? Does self-doubt in your remarkability prevent you from making connections? Do you attention-seek? Now and then I feel lonely. Even with a 'life partner' it is possible. It's nearly half ten at night and we are both working. We've barely said a word and while we are both snowed under and firing up the laptops in the evening is one way of getting through with it, we'll have 5 minutes cuddle and then off to sleep. Others times just having her there means that I don't feel lonely. In vanilla world and partly here, I don't think that I am anything special so connections can be difficult. Here I have far fewer boundaries so yes I attention seek (I can hear the smirks). Probably added nothing to the discussion but my jumble of thoughts I think the thing about loneliness is it's subjective. A hermit can be happy alone. You would think the loneliest people are older people with fewer interactions, yet actually the loneliest people from research is teenagers. Because it's the perception of what other people are doing in comparison that drives how we feel. We live in a Facebook and Instagram world where people are posting about their wonderful life, just before they commit suicide. So our comparisons are skewed causing more loneliness. " | |||
 | |||
| |||
"I feel the need for male contact when I'm sad. I don't often get sad but when I do I wish I had a man right there to hold and cuddle me till I felt better. Most of the time I'm fine and don't feel a desperate need for a man as I can face stuff on my own. This is why I would like a good FWB, someone to be there for you when you need it. But also someone who can make a good day great with their company. But no clinginess, excessive demands on my time, trying to control me etc." This for me too | |||
"You're never alone with a fab " | |||
"I once described loneliness as a silent assassin. How is it possible to be in a room full of your closest, most (non sexually) intimate friends, And yet feel totally and utterly alone. I remember sitting in a pub one Christmas day having dinner, looking around and noticing that I was the only person in the room on their own. I remember feeling so completely and utterly alone, bereft. Sometimes there's nothing quite as unwelcoming soul destrying as coming home to an empty house. " Yes, it's quite arresting when you get those moments of realisation. ((hugs)) | |||
So - back to the business of rebuilding my life, one brick at a time. | |||
| |||
"I had those moments a lot in London: in busy public places, at after-work drinks, at events I'd paid to go to. And it's utterly soul-destroying when you find that the connections you do have are so shallow that leaving your job and moving renders you utterly isolated. Best thing, though, is that now I have a cat waiting for me to come home. She's always glad to see me, always wants a hug, and usually follows me up to bed. (Unfortunately she snores, but you can't win 'em all, right?)
So - back to the business of rebuilding my life, one brick at a time."Pets for the win | |||
"Blimey, it's not often you want to read and take in every single post in a thread, but I've genuinely taken some real positives from this (and the first) thread. Some posts have changed parts of my perspective on this too so thank you people "Awww yay! | |||
| |||
"This might not be the topic of this thread but just seen it on the BBC. As one of the speakers is Terry Waite and a psychologist it's on isolation in the modern world - it might be a bit hard but interesting http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08jb13h" Oh thank you, that interests me actually. Much appreciated | |||
"This might not be the topic of this thread but just seen it on the BBC. As one of the speakers is Terry Waite and a psychologist it's on isolation in the modern world - it might be a bit hard but interesting http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08jb13h" Isolation is such a huge deal though. I mean - look at all those people who have hundreds or thousands of Facebook friends. I wouldn't say those are deep and rewarding relationships (though I could be wrong); it's almost like there's a competition to have the largest network, but without the depth I would feel quite isolated. And there's a cultural phenomenon of male (self-)isolation in Japan, which I think is called hikikomori. But thanks for the link. Definitely relevant to my interests. | |||
 | |||
"Apologies for the double post, but... funny how we bring loneliness on ourselves, sometimes. Last month I had to put a metaphorical bullet through the head of a 20-year friendship, which for the last year or two had been in an increasingly bitter and ill-tempered terminal decline. Today I cut off all contact with someone who, to be fair, I'd been trying to distance myself from for some time. I found out they'd been lying to me for months if not years, and were pretty much just stringing me along over a couple of hundred pounds I'd lent them as an "emergency loan" to cover circumstances which turned out to be completely fabricated. I keep making the same bloody mistakes with people, and then this kind of thing happens. It's enough to drive a man to misanthropy - in fact I'm ready to tell the world to fuck off, apply for a job as a lighthouse keeper, and while away the decades reading in isolation. Seriously - what is the point in making the effort to have friends when the story of my life is basically this, bullying, or people just leaving? (And don't even get me started on relationships!) Sorry - just need to vent tonight. Anyone got a good single malt? "Vent away ...barman get this man a double ...cheers pal | |||
"Apologies for the double post, but... funny how we bring loneliness on ourselves, sometimes. Last month I had to put a metaphorical bullet through the head of a 20-year friendship, which for the last year or two had been in an increasingly bitter and ill-tempered terminal decline. Today I cut off all contact with someone who, to be fair, I'd been trying to distance myself from for some time. I found out they'd been lying to me for months if not years, and were pretty much just stringing me along over a couple of hundred pounds I'd lent them as an "emergency loan" to cover circumstances which turned out to be completely fabricated. I keep making the same bloody mistakes with people, and then this kind of thing happens. It's enough to drive a man to misanthropy - in fact I'm ready to tell the world to fuck off, apply for a job as a lighthouse keeper, and while away the decades reading in isolation. Seriously - what is the point in making the effort to have friends when the story of my life is basically this, bullying, or people just leaving? (And don't even get me started on relationships!) Sorry - just need to vent tonight. Anyone got a good single malt? "What is the point? Well, there are some magical, wonderful, supportive and genuine people out there -- that's why the effort is worth it. Sounds to me that your 'picker' is just a little skewed, and perhaps your boundaries around what is healthy for you to engage in with friendships might be a little loose -- these are all things that self-reflection, feedback from others (I think a therapeutic relationship such as a professional therapist who can help you identify patterns safely is so worthwhile) can all help you learn and grow etc. I have 'given' a lot in friendships emotionally and literally and then been surprised that the person I've invested in expected more without reciprocity, but I had attracted people that expected one way help and had bought in to providing it (excuse the pun!) -- that's just a self fulfilling prophecy and neither person is to blame or bad etc, it's just a dynamic that doesn't work and I don't want to perpetuate. I have to be accountable for being aware who I am building relationships with but also take responsibility for not succumbing to breaking my boundaries around giving too much, often fuelled by low self esteem and the misconception that I have to be useful to the person to be of worth, or a desire to be martyred by rescuing them. Solid friendships are built over time. The give and take fluctuates but respect and not compromising either person's energy, time, material resources etc is held by both to be paramount. There are still those that for whatever reason will screw that dynamic, it must be very difficult for them to have to go through life so damaged that they do that to others -- it's really their loss -- once someone has taught you who they are like that, move on -- but don't let the minority dictate and influence how you live the rest of your life and the potential wonderful friendships with amazing people that are out there waiting to meet you. Focus on how you can be that wonderful person, clear with your own boundaries, that is going to be a superb friend to someone and don't lose hope. | |||
| |||
"I think you're right, Estella, and it sounds like we have a lot of the same problems (if not necessarily for the same reasons). My self-esteem has always been terribly low and I've always been an obliging and compassionate person - a combination which has led me into all sorts of difficult situations. I've mentioned before that I've done some work around neurodiversity, and my reasons for doing that work tie in to the background for these problems. (A little oblique, but not something I really want to talk about in front of a forum full of strangers.) So... yeah. My spider-sense doesn't always work as it should, and I'd do pretty much anything to feel accepted. Bad combination. Especially when, in some cases, it's not just a question of dynamics but of active manipulation. Ah well. I'll chalk it up to life, and see about the kind of help and support that's out there. There's a lot of work to do in teaching me how to form healthy interpersonal relationships... best get started, eh? But thanks for bearing with me. I'm in a pretty awful mood (and by "awful" I mean "it's days like these I wish I had the Chinese takeaway on speed dial"), and have been stewing for hours..." Well by the sounds of that, I'd suggest finding a fun hobby locally to go out and do and meet people indirectly where the activity is the focus. And might I suggest a cookery type fun option?! That's always fun and you get take home food as part of it! Above all, don't beat yourself up for having a low day. Be gentle with yourself. Low days happen, the self flagellation on top isn't helpful. | |||
"Low days happen, the self flagellation on top isn't helpful. " I've got to print that off and pin it on the fridge. It's the one thing I excel at, ironically... Might see if there are any courses or something starting after Easter. Night school always used to be a great option for meeting people and picking up a new hobby. (Cookery classes? You know me so well already, my dear. Next you'll be suggesting a Thursday-morning sortie to Borough Market for overpriced, trendy ingredients!) | |||
"Low days happen, the self flagellation on top isn't helpful. I've got to print that off and pin it on the fridge. It's the one thing I excel at, ironically... Might see if there are any courses or something starting after Easter. Night school always used to be a great option for meeting people and picking up a new hobby. (Cookery classes? You know me so well already, my dear. Next you'll be suggesting a Thursday-morning sortie to Borough Market for overpriced, trendy ingredients!) " | |||
"There are still those that for whatever reason will screw that dynamic, it must be very difficult for them to have to go through life so damaged that they do that to others -- " not at all. one of the mistakes empathetic people make is that others are like themselves, and this is so not true. being empathetic helps when someone else explains things to us but otherwise we are not psychic and shouldn't think we are. and this is how certain personality disordered individuals can take advantage of us. by using our (faulty) empathy against us and benefiting from it. they really do not care or they'd change, or not even be the way they are in the first place. there's always others to replace you when you get sick of their behaviour. | |||
"they really do not care or they'd change, or not even be the way they are in the first place. there's always others to replace you when you get sick of their behaviour." Sounds dangerously close to sociopathy. Twenty years ago I would've said that I refused to believe the universe was so badly designed as to be populated with people like that, and that I was certain that everyone was fundamentally good. Life has rather robbed me of that naive viewpoint. | |||
"they really do not care or they'd change, or not even be the way they are in the first place. there's always others to replace you when you get sick of their behaviour. Sounds dangerously close to sociopathy. Twenty years ago I would've said that I refused to believe the universe was so badly designed as to be populated with people like that, and that I was certain that everyone was fundamentally good. Life has rather robbed me of that naive viewpoint." yes, pretty much is sociopathy. i think there's a lot more people with it than we realise also. i still believe all people can be fundamentally good or decent. but some people only if they have the incentive to be so. | |||
"There are still those that for whatever reason will screw that dynamic, it must be very difficult for them to have to go through life so damaged that they do that to others -- not at all. one of the mistakes empathetic people make is that others are like themselves, and this is so not true. being empathetic helps when someone else explains things to us but otherwise we are not psychic and shouldn't think we are. and this is how certain personality disordered individuals can take advantage of us. by using our (faulty) empathy against us and benefiting from it. they really do not care or they'd change, or not even be the way they are in the first place. there's always others to replace you when you get sick of their behaviour." Hello, I know from prior posts the peeps you mean, and you're right to an extent (and I can't comment on your personal experiences, you know what you've been through, I've not lived your experience) -- however there are those that may have learned faulty behaviour and can have the potential to change. Either type of person -- all I'm saying, as a means to helping me (or another) to detach and move on and not continually invest in trying to rescue) is to feel pity for that person and leave rather than focus on personalising it and beating yourself up. That was the point I'm making. And I personally think it must be difficult for them (they feel perfectly happy manipulating and taking advantage and never care themselves) but I choose (as others can choose not to, absolutely their prerogative) to view them in this way as it's healthier for me. It's not black and white, my opinion doesn't negate the possibility that you view it differently. And that's ok. The key point being, both you and I agree that someone should not stay in that kind of unhealthy dynamic. | |||
"yes, pretty much is sociopathy. i think there's a lot more people with it than we realise also." A few years ago I read up on "disinhibition theory", after coming across it in an article on internet bullying. I have to say that was what really opened my eyes to just how unpleasant and controlling people can be, and how relatively minor their motivations can be (such as to amuse themselves). | |||
"Didn't see the original post and don't have time to read all the posts here ATM, so apologies if I'm duplicating what anyone else has said, but an interesting thread I wanted to comment on. I think we're all whole people and our sexuality is entwined with many things. I realised that I used sex or more accurately sexual adventures as procrastination when I was about to do something scary. It gave validation without putting myself on the line. I get off on a woman's pleasure. And so I usually put in a fair bit of effort into the woman being satisfied. That's where I get my excitement from. So sometimes, more in relationships where emotions get more complex than in one offs, I have thought why have I spent hours getting her off for something that could have been as pleasurable for me alone or a quickie. I realised then that sex was more of an ego thing for me. I needed the validation of knowing I could satisfy her and be wanted. That was more the driving force than raw sexual release you would think motivates. Thank you for your comment, that was really interesting. And satisfied me fully "My ego is boosted | |||
"yes, pretty much is sociopathy. i think there's a lot more people with it than we realise also. A few years ago I read up on "disinhibition theory", after coming across it in an article on internet bullying. I have to say that was what really opened my eyes to just how unpleasant and controlling people can be, and how relatively minor their motivations can be (such as to amuse themselves)." is that actual internet trolling? sounds like it. yeah learning the truth about a lot of the anti-social personality disorders was a big eye opener for me as well. it was the first time i realised people that have mental problems are not all like me and cannot be fixed with help and self care, they just don't give a shit about anything but themselves and self preservation of what they are. | |||
"they really do not care or they'd change, or not even be the way they are in the first place. there's always others to replace you when you get sick of their behaviour. Sounds dangerously close to sociopathy. Twenty years ago I would've said that I refused to believe the universe was so badly designed as to be populated with people like that, and that I was certain that everyone was fundamentally good. Life has rather robbed me of that naive viewpoint. yes, pretty much is sociopathy. i think there's a lot more people with it than we realise also. i still believe all people can be fundamentally good or decent. but some people only if they have the incentive to be so. " Sociopathy is the bit that baffles me. They're a group completely separate from others and just don't fit any solution. I guess maybe that's their purpose in the greater scheme of things. To be the odd ball that sets off the other chain of events in the game of life. | |||
"yes, pretty much is sociopathy. i think there's a lot more people with it than we realise also. A few years ago I read up on "disinhibition theory", after coming across it in an article on internet bullying. I have to say that was what really opened my eyes to just how unpleasant and controlling people can be, and how relatively minor their motivations can be (such as to amuse themselves). is that actual internet trolling? sounds like it. yeah learning the truth about a lot of the anti-social personality disorders was a big eye opener for me as well. it was the first time i realised people that have mental problems are not all like me and cannot be fixed with help and self care, they just don't give a shit about anything but themselves and self preservation of what they are. " Can we be a little careful of sweeping generalisations please? Personal experience is one thing, increasing understanding another, but unqualified labelling that all those in friendships/relationships are likely to be anti-social personality disordered is another. Or to make accusations that anyone with a clinical diagnosis of this kind has no hope whatsoever and should be stigmatised. Sorry, I feel really strongly about this. | |||
"they really do not care or they'd change, or not even be the way they are in the first place. there's always others to replace you when you get sick of their behaviour. Sounds dangerously close to sociopathy. Twenty years ago I would've said that I refused to believe the universe was so badly designed as to be populated with people like that, and that I was certain that everyone was fundamentally good. Life has rather robbed me of that naive viewpoint. yes, pretty much is sociopathy. i think there's a lot more people with it than we realise also. i still believe all people can be fundamentally good or decent. but some people only if they have the incentive to be so. Sociopathy is the bit that baffles me. They're a group completely separate from others and just don't fit any solution. I guess maybe that's their purpose in the greater scheme of things. To be the odd ball that sets off the other chain of events in the game of life. "actually, i do know one guy who informs people what he's like and educates anyone who asks (i've asked him stuff lol). he's very self aware. he gets something from telling people this stuff and showing them how intelligent he is -then we confirm we think he's intelligent, that's his incentive basically, that he gets his ego boosted by helping us. our mental state is just our interpretation of the world based on what we've experienced. there's no purpose to anyone (i think not anyway). it's only when people become non-functioning that we consider them a 'problem'. | |||
