FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Website designers and developers - advice please!
Website designers and developers - advice please!
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"actually, i've not made any websites for years so any info i have is probably well outta date. i found wordpress easy to use when i was using it. lycos have a pretty good shell also. you could always use a free shell, to design your website then copy and paste all that (if it converts to html) and shove it on any site you choose." No idea of bandwidth but fairly minimal. Yes, not sure if I 'need' everything that the modern platforms like wordpress provide - was told I do, but I'm just starting to research the possibilities. | |||
"actually, i've not made any websites for years so any info i have is probably well outta date. i found wordpress easy to use when i was using it. lycos have a pretty good shell also. you could always use a free shell, to design your website then copy and paste all that (if it converts to html) and shove it on any site you choose. No idea of bandwidth but fairly minimal. Yes, not sure if I 'need' everything that the modern platforms like wordpress provide - was told I do, but I'm just starting to research the possibilities." if it's minimal the free hosting will probably do, but you'd get the advertising with that. even with the little bandwidth they give away for nothing it's unlikely you'll have any down time though. dunno what would be best really.i like my websites simple and easy to navigate so make mine in the that way. | |||
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"actually, i've not made any websites for years so any info i have is probably well outta date. i found wordpress easy to use when i was using it. lycos have a pretty good shell also. you could always use a free shell, to design your website then copy and paste all that (if it converts to html) and shove it on any site you choose. No idea of bandwidth but fairly minimal. Yes, not sure if I 'need' everything that the modern platforms like wordpress provide - was told I do, but I'm just starting to research the possibilities. if it's minimal the free hosting will probably do, but you'd get the advertising with that. even with the little bandwidth they give away for nothing it's unlikely you'll have any down time though. dunno what would be best really.i like my websites simple and easy to navigate so make mine in the that way." Found a fairly good comparison site (websitebuilderexpert.com) - I need to find out if the stand alone 'easy-build' software will give me the functionality I need, I'm getting my site hosted with my own domain and without any advertisements at the moment, so I don't want to start paying large monthly fees just to get what I have already for free! | |||
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"Wix would be fine. WordPress is ok, but the maintenance is a pain in the arse keeping up to date with security updates. " Do you know if on the free or basic Wix packages I can bring entirely my own domain eg FriskyMare.co.uk not FriskyMare/Wix.com or something?? Does Wix automatically update everything then - and Wordpress not?? I suppose using build only software doesn't get you any maintenance.....or does it?? | |||
"Squarespace is popular " Yes, looks good, but 3x the price of wix for the starter package! | |||
"Is it a shopping site, or just an information site?" Only information with links to pricelist and orderform so far - I should really make it automated via paypal one day soon. | |||
def use the paypal option, i buy everything via that. | |||
"Is it a shopping site, or just an information site? Only information with links to pricelist and orderform so far - I should really make it automated via paypal one day soon." I think that makes the difference. An info one can be set up using your own domain for a few pounds a month. For my online shop, I used ekmpowershop, which is a graphical self-build one, loads of modifiable templates with secure cart, costs £25 pcm inc hosting. | |||
"that sounds good, the comparison site.
def use the paypal option, i buy everything via that. "Paypal is good for the customer, but expensive for the vendor. Will it actually make more sales than a credit card cart? | |||
"Is it a shopping site, or just an information site? Only information with links to pricelist and orderform so far - I should really make it automated via paypal one day soon. I think that makes the difference. An info one can be set up using your own domain for a few pounds a month. For my online shop, I used ekmpowershop, which is a graphical self-build one, loads of modifiable templates with secure cart, costs £25 pcm inc hosting." Yes, I have the current one for nothing - the domain and hosting are paid for, so i am wondering if there's a way I can get the function I need without adding monthly fees?? I hate the fact that every bloody thing is on another monthly fee nowadays, especially when i only use a tiny fraction of the function. | |||
"that sounds good, the comparison site.
def use the paypal option, i buy everything via that.
Paypal is good for the customer, but expensive for the vendor. Will it actually make more sales than a credit card cart?"I need to work that out too!  | |||
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"that sounds good, the comparison site.
def use the paypal option, i buy everything via that.
Paypal is good for the customer, but expensive for the vendor. Will it actually make more sales than a credit card cart?
I need to work that out too! "That and the monthly fees are down to your personal circumstances. If you are selling bits and bobs, the fees will be prohibitive. If it is more like a main income or small business the fees are more worthwhile. | |||
"that sounds good, the comparison site.
def use the paypal option, i buy everything via that.
Paypal is good for the customer, but expensive for the vendor. Will it actually make more sales than a credit card cart?
I need to work that out too!
That and the monthly fees are down to your personal circumstances. If you are selling bits and bobs, the fees will be prohibitive. If it is more like a main income or small business the fees are more worthwhile."It's a small business that needs re-launching and dragging into the 21st century!!  | |||
"Wix would be fine. WordPress is ok, but the maintenance is a pain in the arse keeping up to date with security updates. Do you know if on the free or basic Wix packages I can bring entirely my own domain eg FriskyMare.co.uk not FriskyMare/Wix.com or something?? Does Wix automatically update everything then - and Wordpress not?? I suppose using build only software doesn't get you any maintenance.....or does it?? " So with Wix, their basic plan £2.55 a month you can connect your own domain so it be friskymare.co.uk. Wix updates will happen behind the scenes without you know it is happening. Wordpress you'll have to do the update yourself unless you find a managed solution. | |||
"that sounds good, the comparison site.
def use the paypal option, i buy everything via that.
Paypal is good for the customer, but expensive for the vendor. Will it actually make more sales than a credit card cart?
I need to work that out too!
That and the monthly fees are down to your personal circumstances. If you are selling bits and bobs, the fees will be prohibitive. If it is more like a main income or small business the fees are more worthwhile.
It's a small business that needs re-launching and dragging into the 21st century!! "Depends how samll, but don't be penny wise, pound foolish. Doing a nearly free one will take time, then you will have to re-do it when you add a cart, as it will have to be securely hosted. I think the paid diy ones are well worth it. I'm a frugal Yorkshireman, but £25 a month for what could account for a large proportion of your sales is nothing. Again, depends if how large your online sales are / could be. Paypal is a high % cost but is contract free to get you going. I had that and Worldpay, but dropped Paypal eventually. I didn't like paying £3+ per sale for the customer not to have to type their address and card number. | |||
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"If you want to go wordpress have a look at one.com I have used them for simple no e-commerce sites and found them very stable, free wordpress install and updates in background. They are happy to map your existing domain to your site." Thanks, I'll look. | |||
"that sounds good, the comparison site.
def use the paypal option, i buy everything via that.
Paypal is good for the customer, but expensive for the vendor. Will it actually make more sales than a credit card cart?
I need to work that out too! "paypal you can stay logged into 'permanently', so any site using it it will auto-fill the pay box and make it easy to pay. for myself, if i'm thinking about buying something i will go to the sites that make it easy to pay for stuff by clicking once to login into paypal, then again to pay for my item(s). | |||
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"Apparently weebly is similar to wix but I haven't used it yet." Yes, weebly, wix and squarespace are the three that seem to come out top for me on the 'which web-builder should I choose' quizes. On first sight wix seems to have the most user friendly interface but as I say, couldn't even see how to add my logo to the template I was playing with lol! Oh god.... | |||
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"Could I also ask for those who use/set up e-commerce sites: I assume they can keep a client database for you but do they also track and print sales reports etc? I'm wondering if I can dispense with Quick Books, I only use it for those two things really?" Mine does in ekm, if they have ordered theought the website. I download quarterly sales as a spreadsheet when doing vat. You can download any field from orders for any given period to a spreadsheet. I assume other suppliers give similar. | |||
"Could I also ask for those who use/set up e-commerce sites: I assume they can keep a client database for you but do they also track and print sales reports etc? I'm wondering if I can dispense with Quick Books, I only use it for those two things really? Mine does in ekm, if they have ordered theought the website. I download quarterly sales as a spreadsheet when doing vat. You can download any field from orders for any given period to a spreadsheet. I assume other suppliers give similar." Great, thanks, that might pay for itself then! Now if only I can get a Wix template to do as I want design-wise lol! | |||
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"All of my sites are self-coded and self-hosted so I can't offer much advice with regards to wordpress/wix/etc. All I can say is stay away from Joomla. It is the very devil. Our corporate website was on Joomla and not looked after for a few months, it because a malware-ridden mess and it took quite some time to fix the repercussions.)" Bah, proof-read fail. s/because/became | |||
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"Could I also ask for those who use/set up e-commerce sites: I assume they can keep a client database for you but do they also track and print sales reports etc? I'm wondering if I can dispense with Quick Books, I only use it for those two things really?" Your whole query is horribly muddled, you ask about "websites" and then start talking about specific niche content manegement systems like wordpress, now you're on to e-commerce, but you're talking about quickbooks which is really just a cloud based accounting package that can do a few other tricks too. Go out and find someone who actually knows what they are talking about when it comes to the whole IT / domain / web costing / content management / ecommerce / Uk Law thing and sit down with them and pay them for their time and get up to speed. You'll make the money back many times over, have few heartaches or worries, and effectively be immune from legal pitfalls such as are you a data comptroller or not? etc etc. If you're feeling firsty donate £250 to fab admin and ask sweetly for some advice, it's a small business / ecommerce website that you already use and know and trust after all. | |||
"Could I also ask for those who use/set up e-commerce sites: I assume they can keep a client database for you but do they also track and print sales reports etc? I'm wondering if I can dispense with Quick Books, I only use it for those two things really? Your whole query is horribly muddled, you ask about "websites" and then start talking about specific niche content manegement systems like wordpress, now you're on to e-commerce, but you're talking about quickbooks which is really just a cloud based accounting package that can do a few other tricks too. ." Sure, but I only use it to track sales and keep a client database really, and I assume an ecommerce site will do that by default? Yes, I have a steep learning curve, I've just chosen to start the process for free by picking the brains of a few good people here and using it as a starting point for my research. IMO I need to learn a certain amount before I find out exactly which 'web professional' will suit my needs! I need something of a far more sophisticated design than this site, functional though it is. 
But thanks for the heads up on legal issues - I shall research those too, none of the professionals I have spoken to thus far had even raised the issue. | |||
" Sure, but I only use it to track sales and keep a client database really, and I assume an ecommerce site will do that by default? Yes, I have a steep learning curve, I've just chosen to start the process for free by picking the brains of a few good people here and using it as a starting point for my research. IMO I need to learn a certain amount before I find out exactly which 'web professional' will suit my needs! I need something of a far more sophisticated design than this site, functional though it is.
But thanks for the heads up on legal issues - I shall research those too, none of the professionals I have spoken to thus far had even raised the issue. "1/ sales and client databases are useless unless you can freely import and export them at will in a format that can be natively read by something else, such as for example excel, so the mere ability to do something isn't the issue, it's your ongoing ability to work with that core data. 2/ free advice is often worth what it costs, I can claim all sorts of expertise here, I can also claim that I have a thick 12 inch cock, you don't just have to verify that that is so, you also have to want and ongoing relationship with that cock, because it is a moving target, the absolute perfect website / ecommerce operation for you in 2014 would struggle now, even if your products hadn't changed one iota, because everything else is in a state of constant flux. 3/ there are lots of valid analogies to bricks and mortar shops, it doesn't matter how cheap it is, if it's in the ghetto you won't get many sales, if it's on oxford street and you are selling used panties and not gold the shop will spend more money than you make (nickel and dimed to death by quickbooks and worldpay and barclaycard etc etc etc) 4/ if you are selling goods and not services then you want to get yourself some EAN numbers and barcodes (can't sell on amazon without em) so no good having that and finding your ecommerce solution doesn't support them natively. 5/ is it all legal, you can charge vat on "postage and packing" but you can't charge vat on stamps used for postage, hot water with HMCE is more trouble than it is worth, and it isn't just data comptroller stuff, what about age verification, the onus is on you and the law is shifting constantly 6/ anyone can open a web shop, what do you do when things go wrong, because they will, do you have a separate support ticket system in place? 7/ etc My point was you don't know what questions to ask, before you can get tips from people on various answers, you need to know what questions to ask and why they are important, and be it ever so humble and basic and ugly, the people running fab have probably learned most of those things from their own personal mistakes, and would probably freely admit that they wish they could go back in time and pay someone who has walked the walk 250 quid to save them the heartache. The tip I will give you for free is this, you have a lot to not merely learn, but master, and (lets say your venture is making and selling furniture on line) your "core" business is going to be joined by your "admin" business running the whole web / ecommerce thing.... the trick with all this stuff is to make sure that admin can all be done in a few hours a week, and doesn't detract from the core business. Get this wrong and it will be like trying to make said furniture with some blunt rubbish tools from B&Q. | |||
" Sure, but I only use it to track sales and keep a client database really, and I assume an ecommerce site will do that by default? Yes, I have a steep learning curve, I've just chosen to start the process for free by picking the brains of a few good people here and using it as a starting point for my research. IMO I need to learn a certain amount before I find out exactly which 'web professional' will suit my needs! I need something of a far more sophisticated design than this site, functional though it is.
But thanks for the heads up on legal issues - I shall research those too, none of the professionals I have spoken to thus far had even raised the issue.
1/ sales and client databases are useless unless you can freely import and export them at will in a format that can be natively read by something else, such as for example excel, so the mere ability to do something isn't the issue, it's your ongoing ability to work with that core data.
2/ free advice is often worth what it costs, I can claim all sorts of expertise here, I can also claim that I have a thick 12 inch cock, you don't just have to verify that that is so, you also have to want and ongoing relationship with that cock, because it is a moving target, the absolute perfect website / ecommerce operation for you in 2014 would struggle now, even if your products hadn't changed one iota, because everything else is in a state of constant flux.
3/ there are lots of valid analogies to bricks and mortar shops, it doesn't matter how cheap it is, if it's in the ghetto you won't get many sales, if it's on oxford street and you are selling used panties and not gold the shop will spend more money than you make (nickel and dimed to death by quickbooks and worldpay and barclaycard etc etc etc)
4/ if you are selling goods and not services then you want to get yourself some EAN numbers and barcodes (can't sell on amazon without em) so no good having that and finding your ecommerce solution doesn't support them natively.
5/ is it all legal, you can charge vat on "postage and packing" but you can't charge vat on stamps used for postage, hot water with HMCE is more trouble than it is worth, and it isn't just data comptroller stuff, what about age verification, the onus is on you and the law is shifting constantly
6/ anyone can open a web shop, what do you do when things go wrong, because they will, do you have a separate support ticket system in place?
7/ etc
My point was you don't know what questions to ask, before you can get tips from people on various answers, you need to know what questions to ask and why they are important, and be it ever so humble and basic and ugly, the people running fab have probably learned most of those things from their own personal mistakes, and would probably freely admit that they wish they could go back in time and pay someone who has walked the walk 250 quid to save them the heartache.
The tip I will give you for free is this, you have a lot to not merely learn, but master, and (lets say your venture is making and selling furniture on line) your "core" business is going to be joined by your "admin" business running the whole web / ecommerce thing.... the trick with all this stuff is to make sure that admin can all be done in a few hours a week, and doesn't detract from the core business.
Get this wrong and it will be like trying to make said furniture with some blunt rubbish tools from B&Q."Yes - I do have a website and 'online' business running currently, it's just way out of date now, as you say, everything is changing so much, so fast. I did initially set that up with the help of a local web professional and it has served me well for some years, so that seems like a sensible approach once I have worked out who I want to deal with. Thanks for the great free advice regardless, I shall make I have properly addressed the issues you raise, some were questions I was already asking!  | |||
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"Shows some booby then I'll give you a solution to all your online presence problems fs "How could I refuse such an offer. ...  | |||
"Shows some booby then I'll give you a solution to all your online presence problems fs
How could I refuse such an offer. ... "You could but you'd be silly to.  | |||
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"I've used the "local web professional" to create a website, in the past. Back then (90's) it was ok. Nowadays, I use professionals. It's cost effective, relative to time spent/ROI. I've written code using excel and some basic currency live updates, tied into products/ weights, dimensions, and freight costs, which works great, however, it was my trials & errors. It's worthwhile paying a professional. I use design agencies, web hosting co & trustpilot. Proportionally, expenditure is relative to your own business, ROI. You are the brand - how you portray and promote, is a reflection of you, and your goods, and impacts, upon the return. " Indeed - I am a designer so extremely fussy! The local web professional was a professional - I don't get your point there? | |||
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"Ref Wordpress - this whole learning curve began when a 'local web professional' told me I should use Wordpress - but I am led to believe it needs to be continually manually updated whereas Wix does this automatically 'in the background' for you? Wix seems to continually come out top in online reviews?" Rubbish... Any decent hosting company will use install scripts that will install and configure more things than you can shake a stick at, CMS's, image galleries, blogs, e-commerce solutions, etc etc etc. One of the configuration options will be automatic updating, both of the main code itself and any plugins that are required. Another one of the configuration options will be automatic full daily backups. I can't post links here but any decent host will run "installatron" (google it) or similar, go to that website and click the apps link to see what can be installed automagically | |||
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"I used adobe golive last time I put a web page together, that was fricken years ago though." Tell me about it, I used Dreamweaver | |||
"I've used the "local web professional" to create a website, in the past. Back then (90's) it was ok. Nowadays, I use professionals. It's cost effective, relative to time spent/ROI. I've written code using excel and some basic currency live updates, tied into products/ weights, dimensions, and freight costs, which works great, however, it was my trials & errors. It's worthwhile paying a professional. I use design agencies, web hosting co & trustpilot. Proportionally, expenditure is relative to your own business, ROI. You are the brand - how you portray and promote, is a reflection of you, and your goods, and impacts, upon the return. Indeed - I am a designer so extremely fussy! The local web professional was a professional - I don't get your point there? "Not every web professional from the 90's managed to ensure their skills kept pace. It's an easy title of employment to acquire, less so, to validate in today's market. | |||
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