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Losing versus failure
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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I was reading something today around failure and really liked this concept that was discussed, a distinction between losing and failing -- it was described that losing is a fact, it’s something that happens. Whereas failure is an interpretation of what happened. That you can lose and it can be something that is completely outside of your control. It is not necessarily a referendum on something you did, whereas a failure is. It’s something where you didn’t execute or had some flaw in the execution.
I interviewed on Monday for a job I really, really wanted but I wasn't successful. I had lovely feedback and it's really not the end of the world, but it impacted me and I've been mentally self-flagellating! That in turn led me to thinking about how we sometimes totally position blame externally without any belief that we did anything wrong (not necessarily equating this to my interview scenario, but in general) and the opposite, when we take on entirely that the blame is ours, we mucked up, we caused it to go wrong etc.
The article said this:
"You can be very arrogant in assuming the mistakes weren’t yours, and the fault lies with everyone else, and as a result you should be absolved of the blame. [But] there’s also the arrogance of saying, “It was all my fault. I did all of these things wrong, and as a result we lost.” If you have a little bit of humility, you also recognize that certain things are outside of your control, and as a result you can’t take the blame for everything."
How do you handle losing? Do you immediately think losing is a failure? How do you get the balance right in placing 'blame'? And how do you pick yourself up after?
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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago
Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum |
When I got passed over for promotion the second time I cried. I felt like a total failure and no amount of critical thinking helped me think otherwise. especially when I ended up having to do the work of the people who were successful because they were shit!
However, it made me try harder to succeed the next time promotions came around, and I got it that time. Sometimes you need that kick up the bum. |
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By *ilk_TreMan
over a year ago
Wherever the party is! |
"I was reading something today around failure and really liked this concept that was discussed, a distinction between losing and failing -- it was described that losing is a fact, it’s something that happens. Whereas failure is an interpretation of what happened. That you can lose and it can be something that is completely outside of your control. It is not necessarily a referendum on something you did, whereas a failure is. It’s something where you didn’t execute or had some flaw in the execution.
I interviewed on Monday for a job I really, really wanted but I wasn't successful. I had lovely feedback and it's really not the end of the world, but it impacted me and I've been mentally self-flagellating! That in turn led me to thinking about how we sometimes totally position blame externally without any belief that we did anything wrong (not necessarily equating this to my interview scenario, but in general) and the opposite, when we take on entirely that the blame is ours, we mucked up, we caused it to go wrong etc.
The article said this:
"You can be very arrogant in assuming the mistakes weren’t yours, and the fault lies with everyone else, and as a result you should be absolved of the blame. [But] there’s also the arrogance of saying, “It was all my fault. I did all of these things wrong, and as a result we lost.” If you have a little bit of humility, you also recognize that certain things are outside of your control, and as a result you can’t take the blame for everything."
How do you handle losing? Do you immediately think losing is a failure? How do you get the balance right in placing 'blame'? And how do you pick yourself up after?
"
Whatever you lose, don't lose the lesson. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"When I got passed over for promotion the second time I cried. I felt like a total failure and no amount of critical thinking helped me think otherwise. especially when I ended up having to do the work of the people who were successful because they were shit!
However, it made me try harder to succeed the next time promotions came around, and I got it that time. Sometimes you need that kick up the bum."
That's a really good point!!
*presents bum for a kicking*
Congratulations for your resilience and getting the outcome you wanted!  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Losing and failure in my book a fact of life and also probably more important than winning in shaping you.
If you don't accept you have failed then you'll never learn from it.
That's why some people have been bankrupt several times before making it, they treated their failure and losses as something to learn from rather than forget.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Argh I have to go out now but this is something I'm very interested in and there are a couple of things that I've come across that help me.
If it isn't full later I'll jot something down. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Losing and failure in my book a fact of life and also probably more important than winning in shaping you.
If you don't accept you have failed then you'll never learn from it.
That's why some people have been bankrupt several times before making it, they treated their failure and losses as something to learn from rather than forget.
"
Do we look for the lessons in failure because we need to feel positive about it in order to keep on? What about the winners? They didn't 'learn' but got 'there' already?!  |
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Mmm!
A week is far too early to be truly objective re the job.... if a project or plan goes badly for me, I take some time out and avoid anything to do with..(said project) until I am in a frame of mind to approach things differently or take a complete change of sirection.. |
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"Mmm!
A week is far too early to be truly objective re the job.... if a project or plan goes badly for me, I take some time out and avoid anything to do with..(said project) until I am in a frame of mind to approach things differently or take a complete change of sirection.."
Wups: direction |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Argh I have to go out now but this is something I'm very interested in and there are a couple of things that I've come across that help me.
If it isn't full later I'll jot something down."
Please do  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Mmm!
A week is far too early to be truly objective re the job.... if a project or plan goes badly for me, I take some time out and avoid anything to do with..(said project) until I am in a frame of mind to approach things differently or take a complete change of sirection..
Wups: direction"
Yes, that sounds sensible -- I'm not necessarily meaning just about my particular experience this week, it got me thinking about the general topic. But yes, stepping away is a good tip. |
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I believe losing is like sport you started level at the start but then lost out but know you'll bounce back..failure is when you don't believe you can do it as in you failed to climb a mountain and never have the belief you will xx  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Losing and failure in my book a fact of life and also probably more important than winning in shaping you.
If you don't accept you have failed then you'll never learn from it.
That's why some people have been bankrupt several times before making it, they treated their failure and losses as something to learn from rather than forget.
Do we look for the lessons in failure because we need to feel positive about it in order to keep on? What about the winners? They didn't 'learn' but got 'there' already?! "
Its hard to quantify winning is an end result so actually their is a lot of failure on the way, but when you fail there is sometime or maybe a lot of times you thought you were winning, but it still didn't work out.
As an engineer I can't tell you how many cock up have resulted in a better way of doing it. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I believe losing is like sport you started level at the start but then lost out but know you'll bounce back..failure is when you don't believe you can do it as in you failed to climb a mountain and never have the belief you will xx "
So think more elastically? I like bouncing.
Thank you, that's helpful. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Failure is an opportunity to learn, to change, to grow. Failure is a great teacher if you allow it.
Losing is something you do with change down the back of the sofa. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Losing and failure in my book a fact of life and also probably more important than winning in shaping you.
If you don't accept you have failed then you'll never learn from it.
That's why some people have been bankrupt several times before making it, they treated their failure and losses as something to learn from rather than forget.
Do we look for the lessons in failure because we need to feel positive about it in order to keep on? What about the winners? They didn't 'learn' but got 'there' already?!
Its hard to quantify winning is an end result so actually their is a lot of failure on the way, but when you fail there is sometime or maybe a lot of times you thought you were winning, but it still didn't work out.
As an engineer I can't tell you how many cock up have resulted in a better way of doing it."
Yes, that does make sense. I know we shouldn't compare our situations directly with others like for like but sometimes you just kinda go, why not? Are we told this to feel better? I'm not sure I really think that and I know twists and turns (or losses and failures) take us in different directions which can end up feeling better when we look back....I just question if we frame it thus to save insanity and despair! (In context -- I'm certainly not saying the job was *that* big a deal...I'm extrapolating my thoughts!!) |
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"I believe losing is like sport you started level at the start but then lost out but know you'll bounce back..failure is when you don't believe you can do it as in you failed to climb a mountain and never have the belief you will xx
So think more elastically? I like bouncing.
Thank you, that's helpful. "
Exactly Estella losing only lasts for the event...failure could last a lifetime xx |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Failure is an opportunity to learn, to change, to grow. Failure is a great teacher if you allow it.
Losing is something you do with change down the back of the sofa. "
*goes to check sofa*
And yes, I am certainly learning from it |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I believe losing is like sport you started level at the start but then lost out but know you'll bounce back..failure is when you don't believe you can do it as in you failed to climb a mountain and never have the belief you will xx
So think more elastically? I like bouncing.
Thank you, that's helpful.
Exactly Estella losing only lasts for the event...failure could last a lifetime xx"
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Losing and failure in my book a fact of life and also probably more important than winning in shaping you.
If you don't accept you have failed then you'll never learn from it.
That's why some people have been bankrupt several times before making it, they treated their failure and losses as something to learn from rather than forget.
Do we look for the lessons in failure because we need to feel positive about it in order to keep on? What about the winners? They didn't 'learn' but got 'there' already?!
Its hard to quantify winning is an end result so actually their is a lot of failure on the way, but when you fail there is sometime or maybe a lot of times you thought you were winning, but it still didn't work out.
As an engineer I can't tell you how many cock up have resulted in a better way of doing it.
Yes, that does make sense. I know we shouldn't compare our situations directly with others like for like but sometimes you just kinda go, why not? Are we told this to feel better? I'm not sure I really think that and I know twists and turns (or losses and failures) take us in different directions which can end up feeling better when we look back....I just question if we frame it thus to save insanity and despair! (In context -- I'm certainly not saying the job was *that* big a deal...I'm extrapolating my thoughts!!)"
Actually feeling bad about means you care about it, nothing wrong with that, so actually that's their loss.
My niece is a teacher and in the early days she wondered if she could handle it.
Everyone was going there, there, I said if you give up, your job will be taken by someone who doesn't care, she's still a teacher.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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As long as I know I've done my best, there's nothing to be gained from endless post-mortems.
As with any competitive contest, any number of factors can influnce the outcome, so there's no point beating yourself up, when things don't go as planned.
If the approach to anything, is to feel bad when you don't succeed, then you lose out on the enjoyment of taking part. (Also applies to Fabbing)
Last year, we were planning a charity raft race. Only 3 things mattered: 1) raise money, 2) don't drown, 3) have a laugh. The question of winning or losing, didn't even cross our minds - lol.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I hate losing.
I take it personally and it makes me feel like I've let myself down.
I try to think fuck it and use the "thats life" scenario.
But I'd be lying if I admitted that I find it ok for me to fail at something I've set my mind on acheiving .
Thats the Bell End in me  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"
Its hard to quantify winning is an end result so actually their is a lot of failure on the way, but when you fail there is sometime or maybe a lot of times you thought you were winning, but it still didn't work out.
As an engineer I can't tell you how many cock up have resulted in a better way of doing it.
Yes, that does make sense. I know we shouldn't compare our situations directly with others like for like but sometimes you just kinda go, why not? Are we told this to feel better? I'm not sure I really think that and I know twists and turns (or losses and failures) take us in different directions which can end up feeling better when we look back....I just question if we frame it thus to save insanity and despair! (In context -- I'm certainly not saying the job was *that* big a deal...I'm extrapolating my thoughts!!)
Actually feeling bad about means you care about it, nothing wrong with that, so actually that's their loss.
My niece is a teacher and in the early days she wondered if she could handle it.
Everyone was going there, there, I said if you give up, your job will be taken by someone who doesn't care, she's still a teacher.
"
Oh, I like that very much!!
That's inspiring thank you |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I think we can dwell too long on these things and it becomes unhealthy. If your fortunate enough to have a good sense of self you can except or see if it's your own failings or external factors that lead to losing/failing and then shake it off after you've taken lesson from it. It's the ppl who refuse to ever except any responsibility for these things that worry me, where every loss or failure is someone else's fault. Usually ppl who've had a million jobs but quit everyone because their boss was a bully/arse hole/unfair |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"As long as I know I've done my best, there's nothing to be gained from endless post-mortems.
As with any competitive contest, any number of factors can influnce the outcome, so there's no point beating yourself up, when things don't go as planned.
If the approach to anything, is to feel bad when you don't succeed, then you lose out on the enjoyment of taking part. (Also applies to Fabbing)
Last year, we were planning a charity raft race. Only 3 things mattered: 1) raise money, 2) don't drown, 3) have a laugh. The question of winning or losing, didn't even cross our minds - lol.
"
Very good advice. You're absolutely spot on. There was a lot of positive in the experience, for sure. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I hate losing.
I take it personally and it makes me feel like I've let myself down.
I try to think fuck it and use the "thats life" scenario.
But I'd be lying if I admitted that I find it ok for me to fail at something I've set my mind on acheiving .
Thats the Bell End in me "
No, that's also a lot of authentic vulnerability and honesty. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I think we can dwell too long on these things and it becomes unhealthy. If your fortunate enough to have a good sense of self you can except or see if it's your own failings or external factors that lead to losing/failing and then shake it off after you've taken lesson from it. It's the ppl who refuse to ever except any responsibility for these things that worry me, where every loss or failure is someone else's fault. Usually ppl who've had a million jobs but quit everyone because their boss was a bully/arse hole/unfair "
Yes, I've heard say that when you have a problem only the first 5-10mins of rumination is productive -- and then it becomes just a process of re-traumatising yourself.
I've a tendency to over-internalise the cause rather than blame others. Neither are clever responses really! |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"If I gave it my best shot I never feel I've failed - doing my best is the most I can do, and if I lose, I lose, but I didn't fail.  "
Succinct and a good mantra for life |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Great thread, E!
I tend to mourn failure and loss for a couple of days, but soon bounce back. I think it's better for us as individuals, the more times we fail or get rejected. It's certainly shaped who I am as a person. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Great thread, E!
I tend to mourn failure and loss for a couple of days, but soon bounce back. I think it's better for us as individuals, the more times we fail or get rejected. It's certainly shaped who I am as a person."
Failure and a few pints of cider will be shaping me! 
And yes, I think it is important to have a grieving/mourning process. It was a loss in the sense of it being a hope/dream that I'd have really liked. A couple of days "wallowing" or experiencing that loss is possibly healthy for moving in from it and learning the lessons from the experience. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Great thread, E!
I tend to mourn failure and loss for a couple of days, but soon bounce back. I think it's better for us as individuals, the more times we fail or get rejected. It's certainly shaped who I am as a person.
Failure and a few pints of cider will be shaping me!
And yes, I think it is important to have a grieving/mourning process. It was a loss in the sense of it being a hope/dream that I'd have really liked. A couple of days "wallowing" or experiencing that loss is possibly healthy for moving in from it and learning the lessons from the experience. "
moving on* |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Interesting post
I'm just mulling over if things in life like new jobs / promotions are viewed as a competition / competing would that be where the sense of failure comes in.
I haven't 'won' therefore I have failed.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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As a newish player coach I'm having to learn to take a positive position on losses when inside I'm fucking fuming, makes you appreciate how easy it was just playing in a team .
Never been a good loser but after 20 years of team sport I've finally learned in the last two years to be magnanimous!
I never ever felt like I'd failed as a player but as a coach you really can't escape feeling like a failure when it goes wrong |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"It's not about winning or losing but actually about mindset and those with. Growth mindset focus on effort and process not outcome! Lots of great stuff from Carol Dweck on this"
Oh super, thanks for the signpost -- I'll have a look.
I rationally hear what you're saying -- just perhaps I'm having a childish regression briefly as it can *feel* (in that sad, sinking heart achy way) like losing/not winning.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Great thread, E!
I tend to mourn failure and loss for a couple of days, but soon bounce back. I think it's better for us as individuals, the more times we fail or get rejected. It's certainly shaped who I am as a person.
Failure and a few pints of cider will be shaping me!
And yes, I think it is important to have a grieving/mourning process. It was a loss in the sense of it being a hope/dream that I'd have really liked. A couple of days "wallowing" or experiencing that loss is possibly healthy for moving in from it and learning the lessons from the experience. "
Sometimes feeling sorry for yourself is a good thing. As I said earlier it shows you care.
Have a good sulk a few drinks and you'll soon get bored with it. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Interesting post
I'm just mulling over if things in life like new jobs / promotions are viewed as a competition / competing would that be where the sense of failure comes in.
I haven't 'won' therefore I have failed.
"
Yes, exactly that!
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"As a newish player coach I'm having to learn to take a positive position on losses when inside I'm fucking fuming, makes you appreciate how easy it was just playing in a team .
Never been a good loser but after 20 years of team sport I've finally learned in the last two years to be magnanimous!
I never ever felt like I'd failed as a player but as a coach you really can't escape feeling like a failure when it goes wrong "
Yes! It's the accountability/culpability. Only *I* did the interview, it was my performance etc -- like *you* are the coach etc.
Although you've cheered me, at least I only let myself down, you on the other hand.....
(I'm kidding, I'm kidding!!) |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Great thread, E!
I tend to mourn failure and loss for a couple of days, but soon bounce back. I think it's better for us as individuals, the more times we fail or get rejected. It's certainly shaped who I am as a person.
Failure and a few pints of cider will be shaping me!
And yes, I think it is important to have a grieving/mourning process. It was a loss in the sense of it being a hope/dream that I'd have really liked. A couple of days "wallowing" or experiencing that loss is possibly healthy for moving in from it and learning the lessons from the experience.
Sometimes feeling sorry for yourself is a good thing. As I said earlier it shows you care.
Have a good sulk a few drinks and you'll soon get bored with it."
I need sex. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Great thread, E!
I tend to mourn failure and loss for a couple of days, but soon bounce back. I think it's better for us as individuals, the more times we fail or get rejected. It's certainly shaped who I am as a person.
Failure and a few pints of cider will be shaping me!
And yes, I think it is important to have a grieving/mourning process. It was a loss in the sense of it being a hope/dream that I'd have really liked. A couple of days "wallowing" or experiencing that loss is possibly healthy for moving in from it and learning the lessons from the experience.
Sometimes feeling sorry for yourself is a good thing. As I said earlier it shows you care.
Have a good sulk a few drinks and you'll soon get bored with it.
I need sex. "
Oh if only I was closer.
My first line would be this is what we do to failures and losers and in the end you'll be glad you lost. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Great thread, E!
I tend to mourn failure and loss for a couple of days, but soon bounce back. I think it's better for us as individuals, the more times we fail or get rejected. It's certainly shaped who I am as a person.
Failure and a few pints of cider will be shaping me!
And yes, I think it is important to have a grieving/mourning process. It was a loss in the sense of it being a hope/dream that I'd have really liked. A couple of days "wallowing" or experiencing that loss is possibly healthy for moving in from it and learning the lessons from the experience.
Sometimes feeling sorry for yourself is a good thing. As I said earlier it shows you care.
Have a good sulk a few drinks and you'll soon get bored with it.
I need sex.
Oh if only I was closer.
My first line would be this is what we do to failures and losers and in the end you'll be glad you lost."
Bwahahahahahaha!!! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Although you've cheered me, at least I only let myself down, you on the other hand.....
(I'm kidding, I'm kidding!!) "
Kidding you may be but it's funny because it's true !
I'm very lucky as I somehow never lose my sense of humour and can usually pick the lads up with a jest and a little self criticism.
+ we tend to just get pissed after, win or lose |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"
Although you've cheered me, at least I only let myself down, you on the other hand.....
(I'm kidding, I'm kidding!!)
Kidding you may be but it's funny because it's true !
I'm very lucky as I somehow never lose my sense of humour and can usually pick the lads up with a jest and a little self criticism.
+ we tend to just get pissed after, win or lose "
Awww you sound like a great coach! Humour is a great saviour, as is getting piddled |
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Dale Carnegie:
"Put your failure to good use; learn from it so you can continue on your path to excellence.
Above all, remember that the only way you can really fail is to give up. As long as you’re still working toward your goal, you haven’t failed in your quest. Failures along the way just let you know how not to do something. Your next idea may be just the one that brings you success!"
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I was reading something today around failure and really liked this concept that was discussed, a distinction between losing and failing -- it was described that losing is a fact, it’s something that happens. Whereas failure is an interpretation of what happened. That you can lose and it can be something that is completely outside of your control. It is not necessarily a referendum on something you did, whereas a failure is. It’s something where you didn’t execute or had some flaw in the execution.
I interviewed on Monday for a job I really, really wanted but I wasn't successful. I had lovely feedback and it's really not the end of the world, but it impacted me and I've been mentally self-flagellating! That in turn led me to thinking about how we sometimes totally position blame externally without any belief that we did anything wrong (not necessarily equating this to my interview scenario, but in general) and the opposite, when we take on entirely that the blame is ours, we mucked up, we caused it to go wrong etc.
The article said this:
"You can be very arrogant in assuming the mistakes weren’t yours, and the fault lies with everyone else, and as a result you should be absolved of the blame. [But] there’s also the arrogance of saying, “It was all my fault. I did all of these things wrong, and as a result we lost.” If you have a little bit of humility, you also recognize that certain things are outside of your control, and as a result you can’t take the blame for everything."
How do you handle losing? Do you immediately think losing is a failure? How do you get the balance right in placing 'blame'? And how do you pick yourself up after?
"
I think this prayer is on simular lines
Serenity Prayer
- Reinhold Niebuhr (1892-1971)
God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Turn the page,is there anything to learn,lesson learned but how often does the exact same situation arise? Loosing and failure,as long as you're still alive need only be steps,not an end,if you get lemons,make lemonade! Not meaning to be trite but forward motion seems best to cure,dust yaself down onward n upward! |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Dale Carnegie:
"Put your failure to good use; learn from it so you can continue on your path to excellence.
Above all, remember that the only way you can really fail is to give up. As long as you’re still working toward your goal, you haven’t failed in your quest. Failures along the way just let you know how not to do something. Your next idea may be just the one that brings you success!"
"
I feel like Frodo heading to Mordor now! I'm on a quest.
But seriously, yes -- this is exactly how to frame it |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I was reading something today around failure and really liked this concept that was discussed, a distinction between losing and failing -- it was described that losing is a fact, it’s something that happens. Whereas failure is an interpretation of what happened. That you can lose and it can be something that is completely outside of your control. It is not necessarily a referendum on something you did, whereas a failure is. It’s something where you didn’t execute or had some flaw in the execution.
I interviewed on Monday for a job I really, really wanted but I wasn't successful. I had lovely feedback and it's really not the end of the world, but it impacted me and I've been mentally self-flagellating! That in turn led me to thinking about how we sometimes totally position blame externally without any belief that we did anything wrong (not necessarily equating this to my interview scenario, but in general) and the opposite, when we take on entirely that the blame is ours, we mucked up, we caused it to go wrong etc.
The article said this:
"You can be very arrogant in assuming the mistakes weren’t yours, and the fault lies with everyone else, and as a result you should be absolved of the blame. [But] there’s also the arrogance of saying, “It was all my fault. I did all of these things wrong, and as a result we lost.” If you have a little bit of humility, you also recognize that certain things are outside of your control, and as a result you can’t take the blame for everything."
How do you handle losing? Do you immediately think losing is a failure? How do you get the balance right in placing 'blame'? And how do you pick yourself up after?
I think this prayer is on simular lines
Serenity Prayer
- Reinhold Niebuhr (1892-1971)
God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference."
 |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Turn the page,is there anything to learn,lesson learned but how often does the exact same situation arise? Loosing and failure,as long as you're still alive need only be steps,not an end,if you get lemons,make lemonade! Not meaning to be trite but forward motion seems best to cure,dust yaself down onward n upward!"
Thank you!
*off to make lemonade* |
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I used to get disheartened when I felt that I had failed at things... 'failed to get that job', 'failed to pass that test' etc etc
Now I feel that I haven't failed, I may not have achieved the results I required or wanted but I have learned towards achieving future endeavors. And as for losing... If I am still alive I have not lost |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I used to get disheartened when I felt that I had failed at things... 'failed to get that job', 'failed to pass that test' etc etc
Now I feel that I haven't failed, I may not have achieved the results I required or wanted but I have learned towards achieving future endeavors. And as for losing... If I am still alive I have not lost "
yay! |
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By *elson61Man
over a year ago
WELWYN GARDEN CITY |
I went for a couple of jobs in 2015. One I was qualified for it ( a job as a motorcycle instructor) with the exception of one professional qualification, and the other job I had never done before but I met a lot of the criteria they were looking for. The first one I was royally messed around. I was invited to look around, then I was invited to observe their working practices, which then led to a practical assessment of my abilities and finally.............nothing. I had to contact them to be told that the qualification I lacked ( a ROSPA diploma) was an issue (and they knew I didn't have it from the outset) and that they didn't have time to "train me". I was disappointed but I didn't see myself as a loser or failure. I was more concerned about how I had been led along the garden path and also relieved I didn't end up working for someone who didn't seem to have sound ethics.
The second job I didn't get, and I asked them for feedback. They were very honest and said they had liked me very much but the other candidate interviewed had previous experience. The disappointment at not getting the job was balanced by the positive feedback I had received.
Both were good experiences for me in the end.
Perhaps the fact I am a bit more "well worn" (or old) allows me to better handle situations like that. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I went for a couple of jobs in 2015. One I was qualified for it ( a job as a motorcycle instructor) with the exception of one professional qualification, and the other job I had never done before but I met a lot of the criteria they were looking for. The first one I was royally messed around. I was invited to look around, then I was invited to observe their working practices, which then led to a practical assessment of my abilities and finally.............nothing. I had to contact them to be told that the qualification I lacked ( a ROSPA diploma) was an issue (and they knew I didn't have it from the outset) and that they didn't have time to "train me". I was disappointed but I didn't see myself as a loser or failure. I was more concerned about how I had been led along the garden path and also relieved I didn't end up working for someone who didn't seem to have sound ethics.
The second job I didn't get, and I asked them for feedback. They were very honest and said they had liked me very much but the other candidate interviewed had previous experience. The disappointment at not getting the job was balanced by the positive feedback I had received.
Both were good experiences for me in the end.
Perhaps the fact I am a bit more "well worn" (or old) allows me to better handle situations like that. "
Thanks for your input
I'll ignore the slightly patronising bit at the end! |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"
Thanks for your input
I'll ignore the slightly patronising bit at the end!
Sorry, it wasn't meant to be patronising, more a reflection on me. "
Ahh, then *my* apologies!! And you're absolutely right that it's all a learning curve! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Mmm!
A week is far too early to be truly objective re the job.... if a project or plan goes badly for me, I take some time out and avoid anything to do with..(said project) until I am in a frame of mind to approach things differently or take a complete change of sirection..
Wups: direction"
How do you view the typo? Did you lose because of your bad spelling? Or fail due to the fault of your spellchecker? |
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By *elson61Man
over a year ago
WELWYN GARDEN CITY |
"
Thanks for your input
I'll ignore the slightly patronising bit at the end!
Sorry, it wasn't meant to be patronising, more a reflection on me.
Ahh, then *my* apologies!! And you're absolutely right that it's all a learning curve! "
Yes, something I have learned through teaching people how to keep a motorcycle upright is that we all develop in different ways and one size fits all does not work |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Mmm!
A week is far too early to be truly objective re the job.... if a project or plan goes badly for me, I take some time out and avoid anything to do with..(said project) until I am in a frame of mind to approach things differently or take a complete change of sirection..
Wups: direction
How do you view the typo? Did you lose because of your bad spelling? Or fail due to the fault of your spellchecker?"
Bwahaha!!! |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"
Thanks for your input
I'll ignore the slightly patronising bit at the end!
Sorry, it wasn't meant to be patronising, more a reflection on me.
Ahh, then *my* apologies!! And you're absolutely right that it's all a learning curve!
Yes, something I have learned through teaching people how to keep a motorcycle upright is that we all develop in different ways and one size fits all does not work "
Yep, I'm just having my pouty moment of thinking it's sucky being the slow learner! |
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By *elson61Man
over a year ago
WELWYN GARDEN CITY |
"
Yes, something I have learned through teaching people how to keep a motorcycle upright is that we all develop in different ways and one size fits all does not work
Yep, I'm just having my pouty moment of thinking it's sucky being the slow learner! "
Having viewed your profile I have a feeling you are anything but a slow learner, and I am talking in general, before I end up digging myself a big hole! |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"
Yes, something I have learned through teaching people how to keep a motorcycle upright is that we all develop in different ways and one size fits all does not work
Yep, I'm just having my pouty moment of thinking it's sucky being the slow learner!
Having viewed your profile I have a feeling you are anything but a slow learner, and I am talking in general, before I end up digging myself a big hole! "
Have a word with them there employers over there please wouldya?!
(thank you) |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's just feedback - it's a chance to learn something and try doing things differently the next time
Yes. Wanted that job though. "
I meant that's my attitude to failure and losing at least it's the perspective I try to maintain as much as possible. It's hard not to feel deeply disappointed when you miss out on something you'd set your heart on, but I have found self-cruelty never helped me learn and served only to feed my self-doubt and self-pity. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"It's just feedback - it's a chance to learn something and try doing things differently the next time
Yes. Wanted that job though.
I meant that's my attitude to failure and losing at least it's the perspective I try to maintain as much as possible. It's hard not to feel deeply disappointed when you miss out on something you'd set your heart on, but I have found self-cruelty never helped me learn and served only to feed my self-doubt and self-pity. "
Now I really want you. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's just feedback - it's a chance to learn something and try doing things differently the next time
Yes. Wanted that job though.
I meant that's my attitude to failure and losing at least it's the perspective I try to maintain as much as possible. It's hard not to feel deeply disappointed when you miss out on something you'd set your heart on, but I have found self-cruelty never helped me learn and served only to feed my self-doubt and self-pity.
Now I really want you. "
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I'm terrible at interviews. I know I'm more than capable of doing the job, but regardless of preparation, I fuck myself up so much  "
Yes, I get very anxious. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Having been a competitive athlete I can see the distinction between loosing and failing.
Failing to me would be not performing to the best of my ability, that's something I can control, which I guess is the difference between the two.
Loosing is part and parcel, there are very few that can never fail to win. That's something saved for the uber elite. Those that are the elite. The elite of the elite. The obscure minority's.
Loosing is something we all have to deal with (unless you're in the elite minority's) how you deal with it is what separates people. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Having been a competitive athlete I can see the distinction between loosing and failing.
Failing to me would be not performing to the best of my ability, that's something I can control, which I guess is the difference between the two.
Loosing is part and parcel, there are very few that can never fail to win. That's something saved for the uber elite. Those that are the elite. The elite of the elite. The obscure minority's.
Loosing is something we all have to deal with (unless you're in the elite minority's) how you deal with it is what separates people. "
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Like others have said, I've been turned down for promotions and taken them very personally or just blamed everyone else - I was the right person and they chose the wrong person.
It was made worse with one promotion where the person who got the job hadn't applied, hadn't put together a presentation or even been interviewed! I spent a couple of days pissed off with the world.
The year before last the whole organisation went through culture training. And as awful as that sounds there were some very useful things that were covered.
One of the tools was the Mood Elevator.
The Mood Elevator is there to help you get from a negative mood to a positive one with 'Ground Floor' being 'curious and interested'. If you keep a curious and interested mindset, you are more able to see things from another's POV. That way you can better understand why a decision was made and move forward in a positive manner. Most people make decisions that they believe are right. If you can try to see what they see, it is easier to understand and move away from anger. The aim is always to move yourself to being curious and interested.
Also, failure is always a learning opportunity. There is a senior exec here that I have a lot of time for. Each year, one of his goals is set in such a way that he is more likely to fail than to achieve. The understanding that he has with his boss is that as long as lessons are learned and positives come from it, this is not a problem. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Like others have said, I've been turned down for promotions and taken them very personally or just blamed everyone else - I was the right person and they chose the wrong person.
It was made worse with one promotion where the person who got the job hadn't applied, hadn't put together a presentation or even been interviewed! I spent a couple of days pissed off with the world.
The year before last the whole organisation went through culture training. And as awful as that sounds there were some very useful things that were covered.
One of the tools was the Mood Elevator.
The Mood Elevator is there to help you get from a negative mood to a positive one with 'Ground Floor' being 'curious and interested'. If you keep a curious and interested mindset, you are more able to see things from another's POV. That way you can better understand why a decision was made and move forward in a positive manner. Most people make decisions that they believe are right. If you can try to see what they see, it is easier to understand and move away from anger. The aim is always to move yourself to being curious and interested.
Also, failure is always a learning opportunity. There is a senior exec here that I have a lot of time for. Each year, one of his goals is set in such a way that he is more likely to fail than to achieve. The understanding that he has with his boss is that as long as lessons are learned and positives come from it, this is not a problem."
Thank you, that's really insightful. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I'm terrible at interviews. I know I'm more than capable of doing the job, but regardless of preparation, I fuck myself up so much "
I had a graduate interview with Nationwide. Back before the days of online application forms. Print out and fill in a tiny box.
I just about managed an answer for each question.
Turned up at the interview and they basically asked me for another example for every question. As soon as I realised what was happening the adrenaline was ridiculous and I was literally shaking like a leaf thinking what the f is this? I'm 21 I've spent my whole life studying when have I had a chance to lead a team not once but twice?
I didn't get that one |
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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
I can see the distinction but when I am on a losing streak it feels like failure and my arrogance is to blame myself. Someone described it as my self-criticism being turned up too high at those times. Time gives perspective.
There have been jobs and projects I have really wanted and failed to get over recent years and it came as a shock to me as I had sailed through everything, blissfully succeeding for over 20 years. To be faced by successive loses after that felt like utter failure.
I have learned a lot from the experience and where it was a job or project something else has always come along that has interested me. In fact, it has led me to different fields that I may never have explored. My knowledge, skills and interest base has grown from that.
I am still trying to apply the lesson to love. I have some way to go. Loss is experienced as failure there for me.
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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If I lose at something, other than sport, or lose points on a test or exam, I immediately look at how I could have done better. Even when getting 97% in a maths exam, I focused on the 3% I didn't get and why.
I'm a good loser, but a bad winner. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I can see the distinction but when I am on a losing streak it feels like failure and my arrogance is to blame myself. Someone described it as my self-criticism being turned up too high at those times. Time gives perspective.
There have been jobs and projects I have really wanted and failed to get over recent years and it came as a shock to me as I had sailed through everything, blissfully succeeding for over 20 years. To be faced by successive loses after that felt like utter failure.
I have learned a lot from the experience and where it was a job or project something else has always come along that has interested me. In fact, it has led me to different fields that I may never have explored. My knowledge, skills and interest base has grown from that.
I am still trying to apply the lesson to love. I have some way to go. Loss is experienced as failure there for me.
"
So much this. Yes. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"If I lose at something, other than sport, or lose points on a test or exam, I immediately look at how I could have done better. Even when getting 97% in a maths exam, I focused on the 3% I didn't get and why.
I'm a good loser, but a bad winner. "
I think I definitely relate to that |
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I've been lucky in that I've only failed twice in what I wanted. One was a test and one was an interview for a position..
I wasn't too fussed over the first one but took the 2nd one badly till I reminded myself I had another interview for the same thing with a different employer which I sailed through..
I think it's about looking at oneself and accepting that's how it goes and when it doesn't go how you thought it would then look at what you did etc and address it..
Shit happens in life and we don't necessarily get prepared for when it goes bad or we don't listen enough..
Call it what you want but it's not letting it get to you so much that it affects how you deal with it and move on.. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I've been lucky in that I've only failed twice in what I wanted. One was a test and one was an interview for a position..
I wasn't too fussed over the first one but took the 2nd one badly till I reminded myself I had another interview for the same thing with a different employer which I sailed through..
I think it's about looking at oneself and accepting that's how it goes and when it doesn't go how you thought it would then look at what you did etc and address it..
Shit happens in life and we don't necessarily get prepared for when it goes bad or we don't listen enough..
Call it what you want but it's not letting it get to you so much that it affects how you deal with it and move on.. "
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I'm terrible at interviews. I know I'm more than capable of doing the job, but regardless of preparation, I fuck myself up so much
Yes, I get very anxious. "
Story of my life. Thing is. When I get to know people. I can fly. But in that situation I just turn to jelly |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Have you got all you needed here lovely?
It's a discussion thread -- please feel free to contribute, I've found people's comments very useful. "
Makes a change from the usual
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"I can see the distinction but when I am on a losing streak it feels like failure and my arrogance is to blame myself. Someone described it as my self-criticism being turned up too high at those times. Time gives perspective.
There have been jobs and projects I have really wanted and failed to get over recent years and it came as a shock to me as I had sailed through everything, blissfully succeeding for over 20 years. To be faced by successive loses after that felt like utter failure.
I have learned a lot from the experience and where it was a job or project something else has always come along that has interested me. In fact, it has led me to different fields that I may never have explored. My knowledge, skills and interest base has grown from that.
I am still trying to apply the lesson to love. I have some way to go. Loss is experienced as failure there for me.
"
Is using the same metaphors or whatever it is with work and in love the right thing?
Forgive me, just back from wetting the nephews first born's head..
Not saying that both don't feel the same but are you looking for the same things with both work and career etc and in love and relationships?
|
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Nothing quite so profound to add to this so will instead offer something practical for your next interview. When they ask if you have any questions, ask "do you have any reservations about my application?" You then have a chance to alay any fears before you leave.
Sorry if this isn't anything new to you, but a mate mentioned it last week when we were talking about his great new job and it was new to me cos my last job interview was 15 years ago and looking at my colleagues now, it's clear this company will take ANYONE! |
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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"I can see the distinction but when I am on a losing streak it feels like failure and my arrogance is to blame myself. Someone described it as my self-criticism being turned up too high at those times. Time gives perspective.
There have been jobs and projects I have really wanted and failed to get over recent years and it came as a shock to me as I had sailed through everything, blissfully succeeding for over 20 years. To be faced by successive loses after that felt like utter failure.
I have learned a lot from the experience and where it was a job or project something else has always come along that has interested me. In fact, it has led me to different fields that I may never have explored. My knowledge, skills and interest base has grown from that.
I am still trying to apply the lesson to love. I have some way to go. Loss is experienced as failure there for me.
Is using the same metaphors or whatever it is with work and in love the right thing?
Forgive me, just back from wetting the nephews first born's head..
Not saying that both don't feel the same but are you looking for the same things with both work and career etc and in love and relationships?
"
Whilst not looking for the same things (I'm not always looking for the same things in work settings either) but I think the feelings are akin.
I've been reflecting on the number of people I have rejected for jobs over the years (well into thousands just on the sheer number of people I have interviewed) and what I could have done to ensure they felt they lost but didn't fail. Although, for some I do think they failed.  Hmmm... |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"I'm terrible at interviews. I know I'm more than capable of doing the job, but regardless of preparation, I fuck myself up so much
Yes, I get very anxious.
Story of my life. Thing is. When I get to know people. I can fly. But in that situation I just turn to jelly"
Estjellya no get the job  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Nothing quite so profound to add to this so will instead offer something practical for your next interview. When they ask if you have any questions, ask "do you have any reservations about my application?" You then have a chance to alay any fears before you leave.
Sorry if this isn't anything new to you, but a mate mentioned it last week when we were talking about his great new job and it was new to me cos my last job interview was 15 years ago and looking at my colleagues now, it's clear this company will take ANYONE! "
Ahhh you see I do that |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"I can see the distinction but when I am on a losing streak it feels like failure and my arrogance is to blame myself. Someone described it as my self-criticism being turned up too high at those times. Time gives perspective.
There have been jobs and projects I have really wanted and failed to get over recent years and it came as a shock to me as I had sailed through everything, blissfully succeeding for over 20 years. To be faced by successive loses after that felt like utter failure.
I have learned a lot from the experience and where it was a job or project something else has always come along that has interested me. In fact, it has led me to different fields that I may never have explored. My knowledge, skills and interest base has grown from that.
I am still trying to apply the lesson to love. I have some way to go. Loss is experienced as failure there for me.
Is using the same metaphors or whatever it is with work and in love the right thing?
Forgive me, just back from wetting the nephews first born's head..
Not saying that both don't feel the same but are you looking for the same things with both work and career etc and in love and relationships?
Whilst not looking for the same things (I'm not always looking for the same things in work settings either) but I think the feelings are akin.
I've been reflecting on the number of people I have rejected for jobs over the years (well into thousands just on the sheer number of people I have interviewed) and what I could have done to ensure they felt they lost but didn't fail. Although, for some I do think they failed. Hmmm..."
Yes, it's an interesting perspective because I've been the interviewer for a long time. It's so important to treat people gently but honestly. |
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"I can see the distinction but when I am on a losing streak it feels like failure and my arrogance is to blame myself. Someone described it as my self-criticism being turned up too high at those times. Time gives perspective.
There have been jobs and projects I have really wanted and failed to get over recent years and it came as a shock to me as I had sailed through everything, blissfully succeeding for over 20 years. To be faced by successive loses after that felt like utter failure.
I have learned a lot from the experience and where it was a job or project something else has always come along that has interested me. In fact, it has led me to different fields that I may never have explored. My knowledge, skills and interest base has grown from that.
I am still trying to apply the lesson to love. I have some way to go. Loss is experienced as failure there for me.
Is using the same metaphors or whatever it is with work and in love the right thing?
Forgive me, just back from wetting the nephews first born's head..
Not saying that both don't feel the same but are you looking for the same things with both work and career etc and in love and relationships?
Whilst not looking for the same things (I'm not always looking for the same things in work settings either) but I think the feelings are akin.
I've been reflecting on the number of people I have rejected for jobs over the years (well into thousands just on the sheer number of people I have interviewed) and what I could have done to ensure they felt they lost but didn't fail. Although, for some I do think they failed. Hmmm..."
Letting someone down gently is never easy cos you and they both know that however it's worded etc it's still a 'no ty' ..
This time..
Not the easiest skill to achieve.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I can see the distinction but when I am on a losing streak it feels like failure and my arrogance is to blame myself. Someone described it as my self-criticism being turned up too high at those times. Time gives perspective.
There have been jobs and projects I have really wanted and failed to get over recent years and it came as a shock to me as I had sailed through everything, blissfully succeeding for over 20 years. To be faced by successive loses after that felt like utter failure.
I have learned a lot from the experience and where it was a job or project something else has always come along that has interested me. In fact, it has led me to different fields that I may never have explored. My knowledge, skills and interest base has grown from that.
I am still trying to apply the lesson to love. I have some way to go. Loss is experienced as failure there for me.
Is using the same metaphors or whatever it is with work and in love the right thing?
Forgive me, just back from wetting the nephews first born's head..
Not saying that both don't feel the same but are you looking for the same things with both work and career etc and in love and relationships?
Whilst not looking for the same things (I'm not always looking for the same things in work settings either) but I think the feelings are akin.
I've been reflecting on the number of people I have rejected for jobs over the years (well into thousands just on the sheer number of people I have interviewed) and what I could have done to ensure they felt they lost but didn't fail. Although, for some I do think they failed. Hmmm..."
That's a very good point.
I know with some people I've turned down isn't because they have failed it was because someone else was outstanding.
In other instances though some I do believe fail themselves in the 1st instance, as in not prepared for example.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I'm terrible at interviews. I know I'm more than capable of doing the job, but regardless of preparation, I fuck myself up so much
Yes, I get very anxious.
Story of my life. Thing is. When I get to know people. I can fly. But in that situation I just turn to jelly
Estjellya no get the job "
Meh. We're still pretty fantastic though right |
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"Nothing quite so profound to add to this so will instead offer something practical for your next interview. When they ask if you have any questions, ask "do you have any reservations about my application?" You then have a chance to alay any fears before you leave.
Sorry if this isn't anything new to you, but a mate mentioned it last week when we were talking about his great new job and it was new to me cos my last job interview was 15 years ago and looking at my colleagues now, it's clear this company will take ANYONE!
Ahhh you see I do that "
Yeah, thought it wouldn't be anything new to you, but thought I'd chuck it in, just in case as I'd only just heard it myself. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Nothing quite so profound to add to this so will instead offer something practical for your next interview. When they ask if you have any questions, ask "do you have any reservations about my application?" You then have a chance to alay any fears before you leave.
Sorry if this isn't anything new to you, but a mate mentioned it last week when we were talking about his great new job and it was new to me cos my last job interview was 15 years ago and looking at my colleagues now, it's clear this company will take ANYONE!
Ahhh you see I do that
Yeah, thought it wouldn't be anything new to you, but thought I'd chuck it in, just in case as I'd only just heard it myself."
It's a good tip |
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"Nothing quite so profound to add to this so will instead offer something practical for your next interview. When they ask if you have any questions, ask "do you have any reservations about my application?" You then have a chance to alay any fears before you leave.
Sorry if this isn't anything new to you, but a mate mentioned it last week when we were talking about his great new job and it was new to me cos my last job interview was 15 years ago and looking at my colleagues now, it's clear this company will take ANYONE!
Ahhh you see I do that
Yeah, thought it wouldn't be anything new to you, but thought I'd chuck it in, just in case as I'd only just heard it myself.
It's a good tip "
Helped my mate out. |
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