FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Breaking news

Breaking news

Jump to: Newest in thread

By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Parliament on lock down there has been a shooting at Westminster x

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Hope no one was shot protecting politicians

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Hope no one was shot protecting politicians "

There are a few injured got sky news on now x

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By *aptain VMan over a year ago

Birstall, Leicester

Im at parliament square at the moment.

2 people been shot

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Im at parliament square at the moment.

2 people been shot"

dump the shooter! quick!

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By *andsonjohnMan over a year ago

in the eye of the storm

"Hope no one was shot protecting politicians "

that's a bad joke that does you no credit look on the news its terrible .

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Oh dear. Hope nothing too serious

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

From what I read, it said that a man armed with a knife charged the Gates and attacked a police officer before they shot him

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

latest live news says a police officer stabbed, and his assailant shot

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Oh dear. Hope nothing too serious"

no more serious than a shooting and a stabbing

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I am looking at the news .you think a policeman giving his life for the likes of politicians is acceptable I think not

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Hope they are ok, the religion of peace strikes again.

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By *W ChapMan over a year ago

Swindon

"I am looking at the news .you think a policeman giving his life for the likes of politicians is acceptable I think not"

Sadly that's part of their job

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Another guy with mental health issues?

Its about time we started actually locking some of them back up, this care in the community aint working out so good

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By *W ChapMan over a year ago

Swindon

"Hope they are ok, the religion of peace strikes again."

Assumption or fact?

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Hope they are ok, the religion of peace strikes again."

interesting! which news site has released the identity and religious persuasion of the assailant?

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Oh dear. Hope nothing too serious

no more serious than a shooting and a stabbing

"
.

Thats a daily occurrence in London

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Hope they are ok, the religion of peace strikes again.

Assumption or fact? "
It is assumption there, usually it is them.

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Hope they are ok, the religion of peace strikes again."

Not sure what you mean 'religion' ?

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By *orum TrollWoman over a year ago

•+• Access Denied •+•

"Another guy with mental health issues?"

might be. but he is attacking the parliament so i doubt he's psychotic and still got his faculties.

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Oh dear. Hope nothing too serious

no more serious than a shooting and a stabbing

You pick on that but not the idiot who said I hope no-one got hurt protecting MPs. What I meant was I hope no-one is dead. Obviously the incident is serious. But I didn't think I'd have to elaborate. Thank you for your input regardless

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Another guy with mental health issues?

Its about time we started actually locking some of them back up, this care in the community aint working out so good

What an inflammatory and idiotic thing to say.

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I am looking at the news .you think a policeman giving his life for the likes of politicians is acceptable I think not"

is the life of a politician worth less than the lives of others? anyhow, it doesn't matter what you think. it matters what the copper thinks. he went onto being a police officer willingly, perhaps knowing the extra risk incurred by donning the the uniform.

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Sky news feed reporting of a number of pedestrian injured after being hit by a car mounting the pavement

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By *aul020269Man over a year ago

bidford on Avon

Hope no one has been killed no matter what we think of our MP s

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Hope they are ok, the religion of peace strikes again.

Assumption or fact? It is assumption there, usually it is them."

Inflammatory, unnecessarily.

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By *unandbuckCouple over a year ago

Sheffield

15:10

Man with knife in grounds

Politicians and journalists have been tweeting about hearing loud crashes outside the buildings. Witnesses said they saw people being treated for wounds and reported seeing a man with a knife in the grounds.

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I think I'll just hang on to see what's actually happened

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Another guy with mental health issues?

Its about time we started actually locking some of them back up, this care in the community aint working out so good

What an inflammatory and idiotic thing to say. "
.

Wait till youve been attacked by somebody with an axe whos been crazy for ten years and left in his flat to go mental at the guy who annoys him on a tractor before jumping to your own conclusions

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By *unandbuckCouple over a year ago

Sheffield

15:15 'Car on Westminster bridge has mowed down at least 5 people'

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By *andsonjohnMan over a year ago

in the eye of the storm

"I am looking at the news .you think a policeman giving his life for the likes of politicians is acceptable I think not"

Jesus are you for real

we are talking about someone's daughter or son or brother or sister or father or dad it matters not whether they are politicians a police officers job is to protect the populous regardless of job colour or religion .

if a police officer died they died as a brave human being doing the job .

a have a female fwb who works right near there I'm worried sick for her safety and I'm not the only one worried about people they know who work around the area in question .

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Hope they are ok, the religion of peace strikes again.

Assumption or fact? It is assumption there, usually it is them."

The religion 'them'?

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Hope they are ok, the religion of peace strikes again.

Assumption or fact? It is assumption there, usually it is them.

Inflammatory, unnecessarily."
We will see later on the news who it is.

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Another guy with mental health issues?

Its about time we started actually locking some of them back up, this care in the community aint working out so good

What an inflammatory and idiotic thing to say. .

Wait till youve been attacked by somebody with an axe whos been crazy for ten years and left in his flat to go mental at the guy who annoys him on a tractor before jumping to your own conclusions

*An* incident does not permit sweeping generalisations. My point stands, and you know it does.

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Hope they are ok, the religion of peace strikes again.

Assumption or fact? It is assumption there, usually it is them.

Inflammatory, unnecessarily.We will see later on the news who it is."

Whatever the outcome, Shag, you're being unnecessarily inflammatory. Disappointing.

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By *aptain VMan over a year ago

Birstall, Leicester

"Hope they are ok, the religion of peace strikes again."

Lets not jump to asummption here

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Fabswingers. The only place a breaking news thread can turn into a bitching thread lol.

Get real and have some respect ffs

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By *W ChapMan over a year ago

Swindon

"Fabswingers. The only place a breaking news thread can turn into a bitching thread lol.

With people in various states of undress, always makes me smile on serious threads.

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I am looking at the news .you think a policeman giving his life for the likes of politicians is acceptable I think not

Jesus are you for real

if a police officer died they died as a brave human being doing the job .

a have a female fwb who works right near there I'm worried sick for her safety and I'm not the only one worried about people they know who work around the area in question . "

a police officer didn't die...

he was injured, and is being seen to by paramedics

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Another guy with mental health issues?

Its about time we started actually locking some of them back up, this care in the community aint working out so good

What an inflammatory and idiotic thing to say. .

Wait till youve been attacked by somebody with an axe whos been crazy for ten years and left in his flat to go mental at the guy who annoys him on a tractor before jumping to your own conclusions

*An* incident does not permit sweeping generalisations. My point stands, and you know it does. "
.

So does mine, some need locking up coz there bleeding dangerous! The only reason they arent is money

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By *opsy RogersWoman over a year ago

London

"Hope they are ok, the religion of peace strikes again."

What an idiotic, stupid and uninformed thing to say. Comments like that cause problems Shag, please, stop it.

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Another guy with mental health issues?

Its about time we started actually locking some of them back up, this care in the community aint working out so good

What an inflammatory and idiotic thing to say. .

Wait till youve been attacked by somebody with an axe whos been crazy for ten years and left in his flat to go mental at the guy who annoys him on a tractor before jumping to your own conclusions

*An* incident does not permit sweeping generalisations. My point stands, and you know it does. .

So does mine, some need locking up coz there bleeding dangerous! The only reason they arent is money"

Ugh. What an attitude.

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By *ewbies7Couple over a year ago

north west

Well said mate, that officer has every right to return home to his loved ones every night. Makes my blood boil people think it's ok for firefighters and police officers to willingly give their lives for theirs.

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By *unandbuckCouple over a year ago

Sheffield

Pointless blaming someone with mental health issues or Islamic extremists. It is not known yet. Sure it will emerge quickly.

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By *andsonjohnMan over a year ago

in the eye of the storm

"I am looking at the news .you think a policeman giving his life for the likes of politicians is acceptable I think not

Jesus are you for real

if a police officer died they died as a brave human being doing the job .

a have a female fwb who works right near there I'm worried sick for her safety and I'm not the only one worried about people they know who work around the area in question .

a police officer didn't die...

he was injured, and is being seen to by paramedics"

that's great news but others have died I'm waiting to here from my fwb worried sick to my stomach and getting very annoyed because of that fact by some of the posts in here .

although my sixth sense tells me she's ok

I will not rest until I here that from her own lips tried ringing no answer which has me worried .

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Pointless blaming someone with mental health issues or Islamic extremists. It is not known yet. Sure it will emerge quickly."
.

Well if it turns out hes sane ill be more worried

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Hope they are ok, the religion of peace strikes again.

What an idiotic, stupid and uninformed thing to say. Comments like that cause problems Shag, please, stop it."
So saying it was someone with psycological problem is ok like some said here is ok? Political correctness.

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By *unandbuckCouple over a year ago

Sheffield

1 person on westminster bridge dead (from car plowing down) maybe 8 others still being attended to.

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By *unandbuckCouple over a year ago

Sheffield

"Hope they are ok, the religion of peace strikes again.

What an idiotic, stupid and uninformed thing to say. Comments like that cause problems Shag, please, stop it.So saying it was someone with psycological problem is ok like some said here is ok? Political correctness."

Learn to know when to stop talking.

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Oh dear. Hope nothing too serious

no more serious than a shooting and a stabbing

The amusing thing is she blocked me. Strange world we live in

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Hope they are ok, the religion of peace strikes again.

Learn to know when to stop talking."
No and those that reply should know it too and stick to the rules.

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

metropolitan police are treating it as a terrorist incident, until they are told any different

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Hope they are ok, the religion of peace strikes again.

No Shag. I think a fair few people have pointed out the unnecessary, inflammatory and idiocy of making assumptive generalisations -- be it based on religion or ill-health. It's not necessary and it's in bad taste. I won't stretch to my personal opinion of what it says about those who feel it neccasry to do, but suffice to say it's not positive.

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Oh dear. Hope nothing too serious

no more serious than a shooting and a stabbing

The amusing thing is she blocked me. Strange world we live in"

its allowed

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"1 person on westminster bridge dead (from car plowing down) maybe 8 others still being attended to."

Oh blimey.heard there was 8 down.hadn't heard anyone dead though when I was watching

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Sad times we live in ...sadly it's an everyday occurrence in Manchester minimum once a week which is why I left ....when will people learn that the bullet never solved a thing ....

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Oh dear. Hope nothing too serious

no more serious than a shooting and a stabbing

The amusing thing is she blocked me. Strange world we live in

its allowed

That's fine but my point is still valid

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Sad times we live in ...sadly it's an everyday occurrence in Manchester minimum once a week which is why I left ....when will people learn that the bullet never solved a thing ...."

terrorist incidents every week in Manchester?

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Oh dear. Hope nothing too serious

no more serious than a shooting and a stabbing

The amusing thing is she blocked me. Strange world we live in

its allowed

That's fine but my point is still valid"

so was mine

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Sad times we live in ...sadly it's an everyday occurrence in Manchester minimum once a week which is why I left ....when will people learn that the bullet never solved a thing ....

terrorist incidents every week in Manchester?

Sorry shootings and stabbings ....I didn't want to assume it was terrorist linked as not seennews for myself yet ...again apologies for not bein to clear

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Oh dear. Hope nothing too serious

no more serious than a shooting and a stabbing

The amusing thing is she blocked me. Strange world we live in

its allowed

That's fine but my point is still valid

so was mine"

OK what was it about MPs getting shot that you were fine with?

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By *entle giraffeMan over a year ago

Minehead

"Another guy with mental health issues?

Its about time we started actually locking some of them back up, this care in the community aint working out so good

What an inflammatory and idiotic thing to say. "

Absolutely! As someone who has had difficulties with my mental health I would like to say that this is a very harmful statement!

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By *uckOfTheBayMan over a year ago

Mold

I find it quite pathetic where some people seek to make crass comments out of a very serious situation

Idle speculation of who did what to who is not helpful or wanted at this stage.

I just hope that those injured are treated well and quickly and that everything is resolved safely without further incident

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By *unandbuckCouple over a year ago

Sheffield

Maybe leave the personal arguments to one side for a while. I appreciate it is hard not to, and frustrating to be misunderstood / annoyed.

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I am looking at the news .you think a policeman giving his life for the likes of politicians is acceptable I think not

Jesus are you for real

if a police officer died they died as a brave human being doing the job .

a have a female fwb who works right near there I'm worried sick for her safety and I'm not the only one worried about people they know who work around the area in question . "

Your comments are not worth replying to

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I am looking at the news .you think a policeman giving his life for the likes of politicians is acceptable I think not

Jesus are you for real

if a police officer died they died as a brave human being doing the job .

a have a female fwb who works right near there I'm worried sick for her safety and I'm not the only one worried about people they know who work around the area in question .

Your comments are not worth replying to "

whats a fwb

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I find it quite pathetic where some people seek to make crass comments out of a very serious situation

Idle speculation of who did what to who is not helpful or wanted at this stage.

I just hope that those injured are treated well and quickly and that everything is resolved safely without further incident

Exactly.

Absolute unnecessary twaddle by twaddlers.

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Oh goodness me!

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

whats a fwb

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Another guy with mental health issues?

Its about time we started actually locking some of them back up, this care in the community aint working out so good

What an inflammatory and idiotic thing to say.

Absolutely! As someone who has had difficulties with my mental health I would like to say that this is a very harmful statement!"

As harmful as being shot, stabbed or mown down by a car?

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I find it quite pathetic where some people seek to make crass comments out of a very serious situation

Idle speculation of who did what to who is not helpful or wanted at this stage.

I just hope that those injured are treated well and quickly and that everything is resolved safely without further incident

Exactly.

Absolute unnecessary twaddle by twaddlers. "

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I am looking at the news .you think a policeman giving his life for the likes of politicians is acceptable I think not

Jesus are you for real

if a police officer died they died as a brave human being doing the job .

a have a female fwb who works right near there I'm worried sick for her safety and I'm not the only one worried about people they know who work around the area in question .

Your comments are not worth replying to "

are yours? you've not added any value to the discussion.

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"whats a fwb

friend with benefit

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Another guy with mental health issues?

Its about time we started actually locking some of them back up, this care in the community aint working out so good

What an inflammatory and idiotic thing to say.

Absolutely! As someone who has had difficulties with my mental health I would like to say that this is a very harmful statement!

As harmful as being shot, stabbed or mown down by a car?"

It's not an either or context. Be sensible -- that's totally miscontextualusing.

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By *orwegian BlueMan over a year ago

Iceland, but Aldi is closer..

Apparently 3 or 4 french school children were hit by the car on Westminster Bridge by a 4x4, the car subsequently crashed into the barriers of parliament where a policeman was stabbed and possibly some members of the public.

The car driver was subsequently shot by police and it is being treated as an act of terrorism.

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

To be honest much as I appreciate the effort of the media to keep us informed I think they are showing a disturbing level of insensitivity by showing close up pictures of injured people without corroborating whether the person has survived or sustained serious injuries.....

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By *gnitemybodyWoman over a year ago

Onestepoutofthedoor

"Fabswingers. The only place a breaking news thread can turn into a bitching thread lol.

Get real and have some respect ffs"

It pains me to say,but I agree.

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I am looking at the news .you think a policeman giving his life for the likes of politicians is acceptable I think not

Jesus are you for real

if a police officer died they died as a brave human being doing the job .

a have a female fwb who works right near there I'm worried sick for her safety and I'm not the only one worried about people they know who work around the area in question .

a police officer didn't die...

he was injured, and is being seen to by paramedics

that's great news but others have died I'm waiting to here from my fwb worried sick to my stomach and getting very annoyed because of that fact by some of the posts in here .

although my sixth sense tells me she's ok

I will not rest until I here that from her own lips tried ringing no answer which has me worried ."

jeez mate, I hope she is okay

how long have you had this sixth sense, does it tell you other information too, not taking the piss, im intrigued

tell me more about this sixth sense

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

My daughter was just there. Luckily she's on a train home as I type

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By *opsy RogersWoman over a year ago

London

"I am looking at the news .you think a policeman giving his life for the likes of politicians is acceptable I think not

Jesus are you for real

if a police officer died they died as a brave human being doing the job .

a have a female fwb who works right near there I'm worried sick for her safety and I'm not the only one worried about people they know who work around the area in question .

a police officer didn't die...

he was injured, and is being seen to by paramedics

that's great news but others have died I'm waiting to here from my fwb worried sick to my stomach and getting very annoyed because of that fact by some of the posts in here .

although my sixth sense tells me she's ok

I will not rest until I here that from her own lips tried ringing no answer which has me worried .

jeez mate, I hope she is okay

how long have you had this sixth sense, does it tell you other information too, not taking the piss, im intrigued

tell me more about this sixth sense"

Really? Take it to PM.

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

its an awful world we live in hope people that have loved ones in the area hear from them soon xx

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

**excuse typos in my posts

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"To be honest much as I appreciate the effort of the media to keep us informed I think they are showing a disturbing level of insensitivity by showing close up pictures of injured people without corroborating whether the person has survived or sustained serious injuries..... "

It's horribly intrusive, I agree.

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"My daughter was just there. Luckily she's on a train home as I type "
pleased your daughters ok tinks xx

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By *unandbuckCouple over a year ago

Sheffield

It's horribly intrusive, I agree. "

Shouldn't be doing that. That is someones loved one.

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By *unandbuckCouple over a year ago

Sheffield

"Apparently 3 or 4 french school children were hit by the car on Westminster Bridge by a 4x4, the car subsequently crashed into the barriers of parliament where a policeman was stabbed and possibly some members of the public.

The car driver was subsequently shot by police and it is being treated as an act of terrorism. "

Is the driver and the man who rushed parliament with a knife the same person? Or were there 2 involved?

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By *ackDMissMorganCouple over a year ago

Halifax

How awful,thoughts with everyone involved .I dont think this post is the place for all the jumping to conclusions and slagging each other off

Miss

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By *unandbuckCouple over a year ago

Sheffield

The car driver was subsequently shot by police and it is being treated as an act of terrorism.

Is the driver and the man who rushed parliament with a knife the same person? Or were there 2 involved?"

Sounds like the driver who mowed over people on the bridge is the same person who then ran on to parliament stabbed a police officer and was then shot by other officers. i.e 1 attacker.

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I find it quite pathetic where some people seek to make crass comments out of a very serious situation

Idle speculation of who did what to who is not helpful or wanted at this stage.

I just hope that those injured are treated well and quickly and that everything is resolved safely without further incident

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By *orwegian BlueMan over a year ago

Iceland, but Aldi is closer..

Unfortunately one lady has now died from her injuries..

The UK will be in mourning yet again..

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Wow...just wow, to the unfortunate events at Westminster, and some of the comments on this thread.

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By *oxesMan over a year ago

Southend, Essex

It's horribly intrusive, I agree.

Shouldn't be doing that. That is someones loved one."

that's the news in the modern era. people want to know as it happens in ask it's detail. ( btw Im not detailing an opinion one way or the other).

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By *unandbuckCouple over a year ago

Sheffield

Interesting to see London Air Ambulance on-scene in 6 minutes, helping the injured, in the middle of a major armed terrorist incident.

A charitable organisation.

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)

By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

I don't know who started the thread first so I am going to shut this one

Here is the other one.

https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/lounge/616373

Reply privately (thread closed by moderator)