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Penality Charge Notice
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Oh traffic knowledgeable folk on Fab.
I have in my hand a penalty notice accusing me of being in a bus lane. The picture shows only a bit of one wheel of the car I was driving on the solid line between my lane and the bus lane.
Do you think I have a case to appeal?
The last penalty notice I got was about 18 years ago so I've no idea about all this stuff.
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"Usually bus lanes are filmed and the image it taken from the video so if it was a momentary drift I would think so "
I have two pictures, one of my wheel on the solid white line and the second is of the car on the correct side of the road as I traveled along it, nowhere near the bus lane. Do you think that could be a successful appeal? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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what have you got to lose by making an appeal? It's in your interests, especially so, if you can appear in person, and state your defence.
Sometimes, it's easier to explain in person, fineline cases, rather than relying upon paper statement based evidence.
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"what have you got to lose by making an appeal? It's in your interests, especially so, if you can appear in person, and state your defence.
Sometimes, it's easier to explain in person, fineline cases, rather than relying upon paper statement based evidence.
"
I've got to find out if I'll get charged more if I lose the appeal, I was in Cardiff at the time, in a hire car, and I live in Leicester so appearing in person will cost more than the fine! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"what have you got to lose by making an appeal? It's in your interests, especially so, if you can appear in person, and state your defence.
Sometimes, it's easier to explain in person, fineline cases, rather than relying upon paper statement based evidence.
I've got to find out if I'll get charged more if I lose the appeal, I was in Cardiff at the time, in a hire car, and I live in Leicester so appearing in person will cost more than the fine!"
Make sure you send stuff by recorded delivery. I won a pcn charge. But boy did they fuck about |
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"what have you got to lose by making an appeal? It's in your interests, especially so, if you can appear in person, and state your defence.
Sometimes, it's easier to explain in person, fineline cases, rather than relying upon paper statement based evidence.
I've got to find out if I'll get charged more if I lose the appeal, I was in Cardiff at the time, in a hire car, and I live in Leicester so appearing in person will cost more than the fine!
Make sure you send stuff by recorded delivery. I won a pcn charge. But boy did they fuck about "
There's nothing to send really. It's all done online. |
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"Usually bus lanes are filmed and the image it taken from the video so if it was a momentary drift I would think so
I have two pictures, one of my wheel on the solid white line and the second is of the car on the correct side of the road as I traveled along it, nowhere near the bus lane. Do you think that could be a successful appeal?"
Reckon you could be successful,good luck,let us know how you get on. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Generally, you may lose your right to pay the discounted rate for the fine, which you usually get for paying within the first 14 days. If you challenge it, the Local Authoriy you appeal to, Cardiff in this instance, may extend the 14 days if they reject the appeal.
You should only incur an additional %, usually 50, of the original fine, if you fail to pay within the allotted time after a rejected appeal.
Additionally, of you decide to appeal, do it within 14 days of receiving the PCN. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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1. If you lose your appeal your penalty WILL increase. You'll have magistrates costs added on.
You'll also have what's called a "Victims charge" even though there is no victim. Think of it as a "stealth charge".
2. You won't win. Driving in a bus lane is tantamount to 0-1 chance of winning.
You certainly have a case to argue, but having a case to argue and winning are 2 different things.
You do have a loophole though...
3. You were driving in a hire car.
That at the very least suggests that the hire car company has passed the notice on to you ...Can it be proved (without doubt) YOU were driving the vehicle?..
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"1. If you lose your appeal your penalty WILL increase. You'll have magistrates costs added on.
You'll also have what's called a "Victims charge" even though there is no victim. Think of it as a "stealth charge".
2. You won't win. Driving in a bus lane is tantamount to 0-1 chance of winning.
You certainly have a case to argue, but having a case to argue and winning are 2 different things.
You do have a loophole though...
3. You were driving in a hire car.
That at the very least suggests that the hire car company has passed the notice on to you ...Can it be proved (without doubt) YOU were driving the vehicle?..
"
When you hire a car you generally sign a contract agreeing to pay any speeding, penalty fines etc. So the latter part of your suggestion is probably void |
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"1. If you lose your appeal your penalty WILL increase. You'll have magistrates costs added on.
You'll also have what's called a "Victims charge" even though there is no victim. Think of it as a "stealth charge".
2. You won't win. Driving in a bus lane is tantamount to 0-1 chance of winning.
You certainly have a case to argue, but having a case to argue and winning are 2 different things.
You do have a loophole though...
3. You were driving in a hire car.
That at the very least suggests that the hire car company has passed the notice on to you ...Can it be proved (without doubt) YOU were driving the vehicle?..
When you hire a car you generally sign a contract agreeing to pay any speeding, penalty fines etc. So the latter part of your suggestion is probably void "
Yep, I found out first about it from the hire car company, the notice itself came from Cardiff.
I wasn't driving in a bus lane though, if I were, I'd cough up as I'm one of those folk who have no sympathy for drivers who get find for parking and driving infringements etc. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"1. If you lose your appeal your penalty WILL increase. You'll have magistrates costs added on.
You'll also have what's called a "Victims charge" even though there is no victim. Think of it as a "stealth charge".
2. You won't win. Driving in a bus lane is tantamount to 0-1 chance of winning.
You certainly have a case to argue, but having a case to argue and winning are 2 different things.
You do have a loophole though...
3. You were driving in a hire car.
That at the very least suggests that the hire car company has passed the notice on to you ...Can it be proved (without doubt) YOU were driving the vehicle?..
When you hire a car you generally sign a contract agreeing to pay any speeding, penalty fines etc. So the latter part of your suggestion is probably void "
A magistrate WILL supersede any Car hire contractual terms.
Those contracts (and I've seen a lot) are scaremongering at best and most of their clients will pay hand over fist almost immediately, which is why I asked if it can be proved without doubt SHE was driving. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Appeal it, there's loads of stuff online about bus lanes being overzealously enforced. There's plenty of examples of successful appeals for 'offences' similar to what you've described.
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"1. If you lose your appeal your penalty WILL increase. You'll have magistrates costs added on.
You'll also have what's called a "Victims charge" even though there is no victim. Think of it as a "stealth charge".
2. You won't win. Driving in a bus lane is tantamount to 0-1 chance of winning.
You certainly have a case to argue, but having a case to argue and winning are 2 different things.
You do have a loophole though...
3. You were driving in a hire car.
That at the very least suggests that the hire car company has passed the notice on to you ...Can it be proved (without doubt) YOU were driving the vehicle?..
When you hire a car you generally sign a contract agreeing to pay any speeding, penalty fines etc. So the latter part of your suggestion is probably void
A magistrate WILL supersede any Car hire contractual terms.
Those contracts (and I've seen a lot) are scaremongering at best and most of their clients will pay hand over fist almost immediately, which is why I asked if it can be proved without doubt SHE was driving."
Well, the car was hired by me and if someone else was driving, that would be an issue as I was the only one covered by insurance.
I've not paid anyone anything yet. |
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"1. If you lose your appeal your penalty WILL increase. You'll have magistrates costs added on.
You'll also have what's called a "Victims charge" even though there is no victim. Think of it as a "stealth charge".
2. You won't win. Driving in a bus lane is tantamount to 0-1 chance of winning.
You certainly have a case to argue, but having a case to argue and winning are 2 different things.
You do have a loophole though...
3. You were driving in a hire car.
That at the very least suggests that the hire car company has passed the notice on to you ...Can it be proved (without doubt) YOU were driving the vehicle?..
When you hire a car you generally sign a contract agreeing to pay any speeding, penalty fines etc. So the latter part of your suggestion is probably void
A magistrate WILL supersede any Car hire contractual terms.
Those contracts (and I've seen a lot) are scaremongering at best and most of their clients will pay hand over fist almost immediately, which is why I asked if it can be proved without doubt SHE was driving.
Well, the car was hired by me and if someone else was driving, that would be an issue as I was the only one covered by insurance.
I've not paid anyone anything yet."
I've just realised, I signed to say I will pay an 'admin' fee to the car hire company should I incur any driving infringement charges. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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That happened to a ex gf of mine she appealed and won Birmingham town centre is bad for bus lanes and giving people fines also did it in swansea lost that case tho because we was driving in bus lane but we was lost lol |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
I've just realised, I signed to say I will pay an 'admin' fee to the car hire company should I incur any driving infringement charges."
Always read what you're signing.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So you drifted over. Rather than driving in?
Yep. Two way traffic, one for cars, one for buses in the opposite direction."
So you want to argue against your ticket for driving in a bus lane with the defence of careless/dangerous driving and saying you unknowingly drifted across the divide into oncommung traffic?
You migjt win the apeal but you might end up with a fair few points for that one |
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"
I've just realised, I signed to say I will pay an 'admin' fee to the car hire company should I incur any driving infringement charges.
Always read what you're signing. "
I did know that. I use that particular company quite frequently and they are really generous in giving me free upgrades. They are also very good at pointing out that little nugget of info every time I hire a car. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"1. If you lose your appeal your penalty WILL increase. You'll have magistrates costs added on.
You'll also have what's called a "Victims charge" even though there is no victim. Think of it as a "stealth charge".
2. You won't win. Driving in a bus lane is tantamount to 0-1 chance of winning.
You certainly have a case to argue, but having a case to argue and winning are 2 different things.
You do have a loophole though...
3. You were driving in a hire car.
That at the very least suggests that the hire car company has passed the notice on to you ...Can it be proved (without doubt) YOU were driving the vehicle?..
When you hire a car you generally sign a contract agreeing to pay any speeding, penalty fines etc. So the latter part of your suggestion is probably void
A magistrate WILL supersede any Car hire contractual terms.
Those contracts (and I've seen a lot) are scaremongering at best and most of their clients will pay hand over fist almost immediately, which is why I asked if it can be proved without doubt SHE was
driving."
It will be be up to her to prove somone else was driving as she was reaponsible for the vehicle at the time.
They changed that years ago to stop people with rear facing speeding tickets etc saying "oh i had given it to somone for a test drive".
You have to provide the lersons details or its you who gets the fine |
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"So you drifted over. Rather than driving in?
Yep. Two way traffic, one for cars, one for buses in the opposite direction.
So you want to argue against your ticket for driving in a bus lane with the defence of careless/dangerous driving and saying you unknowingly drifted across the divide into oncommung traffic?
You migjt win the apeal but you might end up with a fair few points for that one"
Only I wasn't in a bus lane and I didn't drift over the divide. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Ive just appealed one myself for parking my motorcycle on a pavement blocking no access for pedestrians, disabled or wheelchair accesss and there was no signs to say i couldnt park on that pavement. Fingers crossed for us both. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So you drifted over. Rather than driving in?
Yep. Two way traffic, one for cars, one for buses in the opposite direction.
So you want to argue against your ticket for driving in a bus lane with the defence of careless/dangerous driving and saying you unknowingly drifted across the divide into oncommung traffic?
You migjt win the apeal but you might end up with a fair few points for that one
Only I wasn't in a bus lane and I didn't drift over the divide. "
You got your wheel over/on the line.
You where out of your lane far enough to have causrd an impact with a bus in that lane had there been one |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Ive just appealed one myself for parking my motorcycle on a pavement blocking no access for pedestrians, disabled or wheelchair accesss and there was no signs to say i couldnt park on that pavement. Fingers crossed for us both."
Where there doubble/single yellow lines on the road?
Csuse they still apply to the pavement |
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"So you drifted over. Rather than driving in?
Yep. Two way traffic, one for cars, one for buses in the opposite direction.
So you want to argue against your ticket for driving in a bus lane with the defence of careless/dangerous driving and saying you unknowingly drifted across the divide into oncommung traffic?
You migjt win the apeal but you might end up with a fair few points for that one
Only I wasn't in a bus lane and I didn't drift over the divide.
You got your wheel over/on the line.
You where out of your lane far enough to have causrd an impact with a bus in that lane had there been one"
As you obviously have extensive knowledge in traffic law, may I send you a copy of the PCN for your input please? If you have any qualifications, I may be able to use your opinion during the appeal. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
I've just realised, I signed to say I will pay an 'admin' fee to the car hire company should I incur any driving infringement charges.
Always read what you're signing.
I did know that. I use that particular company quite frequently and they are really generous in giving me free upgrades. They are also very good at pointing out that little nugget of info every time I hire a car."
What?...and you still signed it?..
My old work, we used to deal with hire car companies a lot and we used to get absolute bollockings about what we were agreeing to.
Good luck though.   |
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"
I've just realised, I signed to say I will pay an 'admin' fee to the car hire company should I incur any driving infringement charges.
Always read what you're signing.
I did know that. I use that particular company quite frequently and they are really generous in giving me free upgrades. They are also very good at pointing out that little nugget of info every time I hire a car.
What?...and you still signed it?..
My old work, we used to deal with hire car companies a lot and we used to get absolute bollockings about what we were agreeing to.
Good luck though. "
If I don't sign it, I don't get a car! |
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"Ha, I'm sure I know exactly where you did it too 
Those lanes are a bast$@d
Especially in rush hour 
I'm sure you have a good case though "
I wish I did know where it was. When I was informed, I was utterly baffled as I couldn't remember doing it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Oh traffic knowledgeable folk on Fab.
I have in my hand a penalty notice accusing me of being in a bus lane. The picture shows only a bit of one wheel of the car I was driving on the solid line between my lane and the bus lane.
Do you think I have a case to appeal?
The last penalty notice I got was about 18 years ago so I've no idea about all this stuff.
"
Appeal do it tonight...
1, Your wheel is on the paint not in the bus lane that is the other side of the paint...
2, the first step of the appeal is to the council, not to a magistraits court, they have to freeze the penalty at that point so it will cost nothing.
3, you have a right to see all the evidence before it goes any further at no cost to you.
4, you can then decide to settle and pay or go to court.
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"Oh traffic knowledgeable folk on Fab.
I have in my hand a penalty notice accusing me of being in a bus lane. The picture shows only a bit of one wheel of the car I was driving on the solid line between my lane and the bus lane.
Do you think I have a case to appeal?
The last penalty notice I got was about 18 years ago so I've no idea about all this stuff.
"
pay up trying to appeal takes hours on hold and they will say the camera does not lie |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It a computer issuing the tickets not a person. It doesn't allow for discretionary drifting or swirving to avoid danger
Defo appeal. "
.
The computer is set to screw the innocent lol  |
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