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The death of petrol and diesel cars?
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Norway wants to phase out sales of new petrol and diesel cars by 2025 using a ‘polluter pays’ tax system, designed to incentivise the purchase of low and zero emission vehicles.
Do you think the uk would adopt this approach? I think they might if it goes well?
I've been a car fan for years but I think this is a good idea if it happens all around the world. Imagine quiet roads and no more boy racers revving engines. I can't imagine Clarkson and his gang being happy about it though.
So, good thing or bad thing? Let the forum decide!
Ready x |
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By *ortunesCouple
over a year ago
kendal |
Until they find a suitable replacement for the fossil fuel engines, they will have a problem.
Max range seems to be around 300 miles, what about delivery vans, holidays, visiting family more than 300 miles away. A 2 day trip |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Norway wants to phase out sales of new petrol and diesel cars by 2025 using a ‘polluter pays’ tax system, designed to incentivise the purchase of low and zero emission vehicles.
Do you think the uk would adopt this approach? I think they might if it goes well?
I've been a car fan for years but I think this is a good idea if it happens all around the world. Imagine quiet roads and no more boy racers revving engines. I can't imagine Clarkson and his gang being happy about it though.
So, good thing or bad thing? Let the forum decide!
Ready x "
it would be an awful idea. And id still have a petrol car. |
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"Until they find a suitable replacement for the fossil fuel engines, they will have a problem.
Max range seems to be around 300 miles, what about delivery vans, holidays, visiting family more than 300 miles away. A 2 day trip"
I've looked into this, the reality is probably under 100 miles in the winter using heaters and headlights  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Isn't the 'polluter pays tax system' what we have here already with VED being based on emissions? your right, probably already on the path to electric vehicles already! "
Not really, they keep putting it up and people keep stumping up their cash so it doesn't work to deter people from petrol or diesel.
Electric cars are too young a 'thing' in general. Expensive, not as green as they appear when you consider the way they're manufactured, impractical for long distance users, completely useless for the transport industry. We're a long way from being able to accept a fully electric vehicle world. |
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Problem with replacing fuel engines is they need to make it affordable for the working family. It seems ok pitching what you save in the long run but not everyone has the cash to put down on a new car. |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
Electric cars like tesla might be the answer... range isn't as much an issue now, the issue is charging points and availability of them, an industry standard charging equipment would help
Also in California they have cars that run on hydrogen fuel cells so all that comes out of the cars is water vapour |
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I own a low tax, 3 year old eco boost and if that lasts me till it's 10 years old and electric cars are at a 4 to 500 mile range by then, I'd consider buying one. It also depends on me moving though, cos I don't think I could get a charging point at my current address. |
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By *ndigo40Woman
over a year ago
secret town |
"Norway wants to phase out sales of new petrol and diesel cars by 2025 using a ‘polluter pays’ tax system, designed to incentivise the purchase of low and zero emission vehicles.
Do you think the uk would adopt this approach? I think they might if it goes well?
I've been a car fan for years but I think this is a good idea if it happens all around the world. Imagine quiet roads and no more boy racers revving engines. I can't imagine Clarkson and his gang being happy about it though.
So, good thing or bad thing? Let the forum decide!
Ready x "
They already got the electric smart cars |
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"New car tax regulations next month too! If you are thinking of buying a new 17 plate, do it before 1st April  "
It depends on what you are buying.
Low emission vehicles, you should buy before 1st April. Normal cars could save you money if you buy after the 1st... |
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The tech isn't there yet for the majority of electric cars...hybrids are the best current bet for shorter journeys but diesels are probably the most fuel efficient on longer ones. There really isn't an alternative at the moment. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"As long as they leave motorbikes alone....
Then sure, go for it 
Oh you will be riding the new sinclair electric bike 
Never !!!!"
Love it...not in my back yard |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Changing my car this week, or trying to. I'm after a new Range Rover. dilemma being, that the hybrid petrol version, as opposed to the petrol or diesel models. Which one is going to cost me the least long term?
Given the changes in the government mindset, the potential for constant excessive taxes (London use premium/annual pollution tax costs) being applied retrospectively, not to mention ridiculous fuel tax charges.... where does it end, when the alternative transport options, are appalling, and impractical, for most people.
Don't get me started on Southern Rail... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"New car tax regulations next month too! If you are thinking of buying a new 17 plate, do it before 1st April
It depends on what you are buying.
Low emission vehicles, you should buy before 1st April. Normal cars could save you money if you buy after the 1st..."
Not really though, all cars will have a flat rate of £140 if it is over 100g/km. But any car costing over £40,000 will incur an extra £310 surcharge per year for the first 5 years. I know over £40,000 may not be classed as normal though. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Problem with replacing fuel engines is they need to make it affordable for the working family. It seems ok pitching what you save in the long run but not everyone has the cash to put down on a new car. "
a very valid point raised.
I read recently, that because of the increasing price of new cars, and the finance agreements, majority are acquiring cars on perpetual pcp contracts. They in fact never actually own the cars nowadays. They merely rent.
It's mirroring the property sector, in that, we're raising a generation, that will never actually own a major family asset, in their lifetime. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"As the owner of a diesel car I'm just getting the impression I'm about to get shafted  "
Quite. I own a 4 wheel drive diesel pickup which is essential to my work, i honestly don't see how there can be a non polluting alternative which is just as good.
If we go down the electric route what people fail to realise is that pollution is generated in making that electricity in the first place. I think this is all just a big con. The innocent motorist is already being screwed over left, right and centre. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"New car tax regulations next month too! If you are thinking of buying a new 17 plate, do it before 1st April
It depends on what you are buying.
Low emission vehicles, you should buy before 1st April. Normal cars could save you money if you buy after the 1st...
Not really though, all cars will have a flat rate of £140 if it is over 100g/km. But any car costing over £40,000 will incur an extra £310 surcharge per year for the first 5 years. I know over £40,000 may not be classed as normal though."
Correct. The only cars not affected are electric. So for example, if you own a Fiat 500 twin air they are currently zero road tax. If you buy one registered on or after April 1st it will be 140.so a car that currently is free will now be 560 quid (based on your average 4 year finance lease).
All cars in the first year are flat at 140, big oil burners then go up in price the year after. And also, yes 40k and over (based on rrp, not what you pay) have a surcharge... Hence why I've bought mine now. It's 20 quid a year as a pose to 450! Jeeez |
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By *mmmMaybeCouple
over a year ago
West Wales |
Whatever they want to hike put it on the fucking fuel including road tax, more miles you do or the more of a gas guzzler you drive the more road congestion & environmental damage you cause so the more you pay.
Use electric/hybrid pay nothing or very little. Free charging stations should be dropped though as there's no such thing as free electricity.
S |
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Only useful to the environment if the power station making the electric is cleaner than the car engine.
If that is solved, then it would be ok for short commutes, shopping etc, but they need to get in electric charging points at every petrol station that can charge the car up fast i.e 10-15 minutes max if it is really going to be practical.
Tesla are doing a good job of rolling it out in California and charging up is free at their charging stations, and there are lots of them. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"But revving engines is fun
I'm installing hondata, 8800rpm here I come  "
Ecutek (I think) from TDI North looks like it has more options, might be worth a look! |
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"I only pay £30 a year tax on my car "
Snap.
I don't know why they're pushing all these Electric cars without proper charging points everywhere.
What are the gonna tax us for when everyone has gone electric?
Just gives more credence to global warming being an excuse to tax us. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I don't think we're anywhere near the point that electric cars can take over. The only properly affordable one is a Leaf, which looks like trash and only manages around 100 miles to a charge I think. What use is that?!
I'll stick to my 25mpg angry petrol |
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The fact is that major motor manufacturers have been trying to make viable electric cars, buses, trucks etc. For over a century.
So far none has achieved this.
Hybrids do work, but are projected to have a much shorter life hence the encouragement to lease, not buy. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"But revving engines is fun
I'm installing hondata, 8800rpm here I come
Ecutek (I think) from TDI North looks like it has more options, might be worth a look!"
I've briefly read about them mapping vtec engines without hondata.
But I'm not sure it covers the same things as hondata, you can alter the crossover point for vtec engagement. Not sure if you can do that on the ecutek |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"But revving engines is fun
I'm installing hondata, 8800rpm here I come
Ecutek (I think) from TDI North looks like it has more options, might be worth a look!
I've briefly read about them mapping vtec engines without hondata.
But I'm not sure it covers the same things as hondata, you can alter the crossover point for vtec engagement. Not sure if you can do that on the ecutek "
I've briefly read about them on a certain Civic forum and I think they can alter it! You also get flat foot shifting which and down shift throttle blip which sounds great. Now you've got me looking into Civic mods...dammit! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Only useful to the environment if the power station making the electric is cleaner than the car engine.
If that is solved, then it would be ok for short commutes, shopping etc, but they need to get in electric charging points at every petrol station that can charge the car up fast i.e 10-15 minutes max if it is really going to be practical.
Tesla are doing a good job of rolling it out in California and charging up is free at their charging stations, and there are lots of them."
Needs to be quicker than that, imagine the queue's. Beverley would you pass me the 12 gauge I have an itchy nose. |
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We have to make massive changes to our lifestyles, including car use. But having the affordable cars, with the right infrastructure is probably a little way off.
The UK option short term will be to tinker with taxes. Public transport infrastructure won't change much- there won't be any visionary led progression. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Norway wants to phase out sales of new petrol and diesel cars by 2025 using a ‘polluter pays’ tax system, designed to incentivise the purchase of low and zero emission vehicles.
Do you think the uk would adopt this approach? I think they might if it goes well?
I've been a car fan for years but I think this is a good idea if it happens all around the world. Imagine quiet roads and no more boy racers revving engines. I can't imagine Clarkson and his gang being happy about it though.
So, good thing or bad thing? Let the forum decide!
Ready x "
The uk did adopt this approach then they realised how much it impacted tax revenue and changed it again |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Electric cars like tesla might be the answer... range isn't as much an issue now, the issue is charging points and availability of them, an industry standard charging equipment would help
Also in California they have cars that run on hydrogen fuel cells so all that comes out of the cars is water vapour "
Hydrogen is just an appalling choice for energy storage and transfer though. Very inefficent and its all made from fossil fuels anyway.
As for all electric there are major problems with scaling it up to th emassive production levels of nornsl cars |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Only useful to the environment if the power station making the electric is cleaner than the car engine.
"
They are Simply due to scale power stations are more efficent than small car engines.
Simply using turbines over reciprocating pistons helps |
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"Norway wants to phase out sales of new petrol and diesel cars by 2025 using a ‘polluter pays’ tax system, designed to incentivise the purchase of low and zero emission vehicles.
Do you think the uk would adopt this approach? I think they might if it goes well?
I've been a car fan for years but I think this is a good idea if it happens all around the world. Imagine quiet roads and no more boy racers revving engines. I can't imagine Clarkson and his gang being happy about it though.
So, good thing or bad thing? Let the forum decide!
Ready x "
Norwegians are wealthy and could well afford a nice electric car. Most Brits couldn't. |
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there is a whole fleet of electric buses in nottingham, seem to be very successful, quick, quiet and efficient,
government will probably make money back from electric cars by making it expensive to dispose of the old batteries when they wear out from all the fast charging, which they will, rechargeable batteries do not last forever |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Where does the energy for the electric cars come from ... Doubt if it's solar in Norway .. perhaps they are going to turn all their towns and roads into Dodgem tracks  "
More efficient fossil fuel power stations or nuclear stations |
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"Where does the energy for the electric cars come from ... Doubt if it's solar in Norway .. perhaps they are going to turn all their towns and roads into Dodgem tracks
More efficient fossil fuel power stations or nuclear stations "
They are sat on a shit load of crude! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Where does the energy for the electric cars come from ... Doubt if it's solar in Norway .. perhaps they are going to turn all their towns and roads into Dodgem tracks
More efficient fossil fuel power stations or nuclear stations
They are sat on a shit load of crude!"
Yes...and power stations and cables are more efficent thsn small engines and tens of thousands of tanker trucks |
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"Only useful to the environment if the power station making the electric is cleaner than the car engine.
They are Simply due to scale power stations are more efficent than small car engines.
Simply using turbines over reciprocating pistons helps "
A car engine has a similar thermal efficiency (bit less) than a power station. But it's no help if the power station is just burning high sulphur coal.
Also, factor in the losses for battery storage of the electric produced.
I wish there was a clean convenient method of battery vehicles, we arent there yet thoigh. |
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By *ndigo40Woman
over a year ago
secret town |
"I only pay £30 a year tax on my car
Snap.
I don't know why they're pushing all these Electric cars without proper charging points everywhere.
What are the gonna tax us for when everyone has gone electric?
Just gives more credence to global warming being an excuse to tax us. "
I've only seen one power point
If there are going to be more electric cars obviously more power points |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I only pay £30 a year tax on my car
Snap.
I don't know why they're pushing all these Electric cars without proper charging points everywhere.
What are the gonna tax us for when everyone has gone electric?
Just gives more credence to global warming being an excuse to tax us.
I've only seen one power point
If there are going to be more electric cars obviously more power points "
Most cities have a lot now |
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"Isn't the 'polluter pays tax system' what we have here already with VED being based on emissions? your right, probably already on the path to electric vehicles already! "
Electric cars will have to improve greatly before I get one, used a Nissan leaf as a work car. Have to say not that impressed with it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Electric cars will have to improve greatly before I get one, used a Nissan leaf as a work car. Have to say not that impressed with it."
You could bully work into letting you drive a Tesla? |
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By *ndigo40Woman
over a year ago
secret town |
"I only pay £30 a year tax on my car
Snap.
I don't know why they're pushing all these Electric cars without proper charging points everywhere.
What are the gonna tax us for when everyone has gone electric?
Just gives more credence to global warming being an excuse to tax us.
I've only seen one power point
If there are going to be more electric cars obviously more power points
Most cities have a lot now"
I don't live in a city |
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"
Electric cars will have to improve greatly before I get one, used a Nissan leaf as a work car. Have to say not that impressed with it."
A Tesla model S with 3.5 second 0-60 would feel better, but it's not in my price bracket |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I only pay £30 a year tax on my car
Snap.
I don't know why they're pushing all these Electric cars without proper charging points everywhere.
What are the gonna tax us for when everyone has gone electric?
Just gives more credence to global warming being an excuse to tax us.
I've only seen one power point
If there are going to be more electric cars obviously more power points
Most cities have a lot now
I don't live in a city "
Well most people do.
Live ourside a city then yiu hace to acdept developments are going to be slower getting to you |
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By *ndigo40Woman
over a year ago
secret town |
"I only pay £30 a year tax on my car
Snap.
I don't know why they're pushing all these Electric cars without proper charging points everywhere.
What are the gonna tax us for when everyone has gone electric?
Just gives more credence to global warming being an excuse to tax us.
I've only seen one power point
If there are going to be more electric cars obviously more power points
Most cities have a lot now
I don't live in a city
Well most people do.
Live ourside a city then yiu hace to acdept developments are going to be slower getting to you"
Obviously |
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"
If there are going to be more electric cars obviously more power points
Most cities have a lot now"
I've not noticed lots. There might be the odd one here and there but not enough for tens of thousands of cars. Big infrastructure work needed if this is going to be pushed as an idea. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
If there are going to be more electric cars obviously more power points
Most cities have a lot now
I've not noticed lots. There might be the odd one here and there but not enough for tens of thousands of cars. Big infrastructure work needed if this is going to be pushed as an idea."
Fast swap stations in existing petrol ststions will likley be the future path not charging points.
Industry will have to standardise battery packs or at least the major groups will |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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bet charging points out in the country will be just like the interweb, the electric will take longer to get through than in the towns. (no im not being serious - just in case) |
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By 2025, it's fair to assume that battery technology will have advanced to make them smaller and more efficient, making longer journeys more feasible. In addition, we are more than likely going to have driverless cars, if they are proven to be safe enough. However, whatever the fuel source, the government will find a way of raising revenue through it.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"By 2025, it's fair to assume that battery technology will have advanced to make them smaller and more efficient, making longer journeys more feasible. In addition, we are more than likely going to have driverless cars, if they are proven to be safe enough. However, whatever the fuel source, the government will find a way of raising revenue through it. "
Thsts actually not that reasonable an assumption.
Smaller and lighter batteries (short of a revolution as oposed to evolution of tech) are much more fragile (see note7).
Bur its not so kuch the size or weighr of batteries rhats a problem, you save so kuch space and weight not having an engine, gear box, drive shafts, diferentials etc that they balance out easily.
Its more the large scale mabufacture of them will put some major strain on resources |
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"By 2025, it's fair to assume that battery technology will have advanced to make them smaller and more efficient, making longer journeys more feasible. In addition, we are more than likely going to have driverless cars, if they are proven to be safe enough. However, whatever the fuel source, the government will find a way of raising revenue through it.
Thsts actually not that reasonable an assumption.
Smaller and lighter batteries (short of a revolution as oposed to evolution of tech) are much more fragile (see note7).
Bur its not so kuch the size or weighr of batteries rhats a problem, you save so kuch space and weight not having an engine, gear box, drive shafts, diferentials etc that they balance out easily.
Its more the large scale mabufacture of them will put some major strain on resources "
You're saying it's not reasonable to assume in 10 years battery technology will have advanced to give smaller lighter batteries???
Without knowing the technology, we don't know what resource strain there could be.
The size, weight and capacity is critical for range, which is currently the killer problem. Battery swap at stations, which you mention as a good idea, would also hugely benefit from a smaller lighter batteries. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Just the put this into the mix, hydrogen fuel cells are being developed and tested in this country, so the posibility of a elecric cars such as tesla being made with a hydrogen fuel cell would give you limitless range. As long as you can get to oxygen and water ... |
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"Just the put this into the mix, hydrogen fuel cells are being developed and tested in this country, so the posibility of a elecric cars such as tesla being made with a hydrogen fuel cell would give you limitless range. As long as you can get to oxygen and water ..."
You still need to fill up with Hydrogen, so not limitless range. If the Hydrogen can be produced cheaply and easily they have a great potential. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Would happily have and electric car, as long as it can do 600+ miles on a full charge and be refueled in under 5 minutes, as my diesel car does then I'm happy. |
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By *mmmMaybeCouple
over a year ago
West Wales |
The perfect place for charging stations is not in petrol stations, not till the cars are more abundant anyway.
The perfect place is supermarket car parks & retail centres where you are not going to care if a charge takes an hour.
We don't live in a major town either but Asda in the nearest sizable one have two charging point stations. They are always & I mean always parked in by non electric vehicles because they are close to the entrance.
Saw a leaf blocking a car in before now with an extension to the cabling so guess they are local & fed up with it.
S |
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"The perfect place for charging stations is not in petrol stations, not till the cars are more abundant anyway.
The perfect place is supermarket car parks & retail centres where you are not going to care if a charge takes an hour.
S"
And in work car parks, NCP car parks etc. Then it can charge while you are in work. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I only pay £30 a year tax on my car
Snap.
I don't know why they're pushing all these Electric cars without proper charging points everywhere.
What are the gonna tax us for when everyone has gone electric?
Just gives more credence to global warming being an excuse to tax us. "
once everyone is on electric the will bring back old style road tax and charge you at charging points. Didn't i also see something about we only produce a small percentage above what we actually use in regards to electric something silly like 12% |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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personally think everything is moving far slower than i thought it would - when i was little was asked at school what life would be like in the year 2000 - we wore silver suits - moved round on hover jets and had a pill or two as a meal substitute |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"By 2025, it's fair to assume that battery technology will have advanced to make them smaller and more efficient, making longer journeys more feasible. In addition, we are more than likely going to have driverless cars, if they are proven to be safe enough. However, whatever the fuel source, the government will find a way of raising revenue through it. "
to make driverless cars a safe option it needs to be inbuilt into all new cars and all activated at the same time. At present there is no way for a car to expect human stupidity. Humans and robots on the same roads would cause carnage |
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By *mmmMaybeCouple
over a year ago
West Wales |
"personally think everything is moving far slower than i thought it would - when i was little was asked at school what life would be like in the year 2000 - we wore silver suits - moved round on hover jets and had a pill or two as a meal substitute "
I think everything slowed to a crawl in the 70's regarding power sources mainly because the world did & does run on fossil fuels & big money has influence on those in power & still does.
S |
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By *mmmMaybeCouple
over a year ago
West Wales |
"Can you imagine if we all had electric cars all the cables you could trip over walking down the street. A complete health and safety issue  "
I think as time goes on the need for cabling will disappear, maybe charging contacts built into every parking space on every car park & you just push a button & lower contacts from under your car, that way you can park anywhere not just at stations.
Bit like contacts on a scalextric set??
S |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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so many unrealistic laughable replies on here, and so many replies from people who live in cities with absolutely no idea on country life.
Cities may have transportation in place to remove diesel cars but outwith lonon business would come to a standstill.
\this is just another way for the government to fire on added costs
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next we will have tesla announcing that the vast ammounts of cobalt it uses and "stockpiles" for electric cars is mined without the use of young children, lol
its all comical, watch the headlines now the focus is on cobalt and electric cars, all industry makers will announce after they stockpile cobalt that they will not use mines where child labour is used
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and some on here will take it all in, believing every word. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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as technology progresses as it is electric cars will be the "in " thing with speed and self charging batteries as there driven etc etc
bit like how the mobile phone progressed and progressed cars will do the same an we will all want the latest bit of kit.
im thinking they will be pretty much maintanance free as well , ..
long way off yet but it will happen i think |
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"By 2025, it's fair to assume that battery technology will have advanced to make them smaller and more efficient, making longer journeys more feasible. In addition, we are more than likely going to have driverless cars, if they are proven to be safe enough. However, whatever the fuel source, the government will find a way of raising revenue through it. to make driverless cars a safe option it needs to be inbuilt into all new cars and all activated at the same time. At present there is no way for a car to expect human stupidity. Humans and robots on the same roads would cause carnage"
There's 1000's driving round in the USA now. Mile for mile they are safer than human drivers. need a new thread on this one though  |
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"If you want a real "out there" answer.
We will learn to transport matter before we run out of fossil fuel.
There you go.
S"
We can transport matter. It gets loaded into the back of a truck and transported |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Yeah we already pay through the nose for higher emission cars so I can't really see how this would change anything?
Evo X £515 a year to tax!"
That's nothing come to Ireland ????
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"as technology progresses as it is electric cars will be the "in " thing with speed and self charging batteries as there driven etc etc
bit like how the mobile phone progressed and progressed cars will do the same an we will all want the latest bit of kit.
im thinking they will be pretty much maintanance free as well , ..
long way off yet but it will happen i think"
I take it you are not technically minded
(maintenance free) lol |
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