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The Devil makes work
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For idle hands ,so with up to 1 million kids unemployed do you think its time for some sort of national service ,to occupy them ,train them and give them a sense of worth.
Or should we leave em as they are languishing ? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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some of the scroats an scallys knocking around the street corners would you really trust them with a gun in their hands? Note we said (some and not refering to all unemployed kids) |
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im with you there . perhaps we can start with a boot camp on a voluntary basis and expand from there . i bet a lot of the unemployed youth would probably jump at the chance to have something constructive to do . we can fund it from all the money local uthorities save form reduced vandalism and cleaning up grafiti . |
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"some of the scroats an scallys knocking around the street corners would you really trust them with a gun in their hands? Note we said (some and not refering to all unemployed kids)"
nooo i dont think teaching em to fight but maybe some sort of support role over here as the forces are stretched or community plans to help the aged ,anything to give them some feeling of self worth |
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national service as it was for all, no - the armed services arent going to want disaffected young people who dont want to be there, and nor should they use resources in this way .
for those who want to work we need to find a way of providing real opportunities for them to learn skills and have a realistic chance in the job market afterwards. My son worked his proverbials off in an apprenticeship, being used as a full memeber of the admin team he was placed within, always being on friday afternoons on his own when all the paid staff were out on appointments etc ...for £80 a week, out of which he had to pay £25 travel. When he finished, there was no job as they just replaced him with another apprentice - wheres the incentive not to. ( this was with a large local authority )
for those who arent prepared to do anything - maybe some form of enforced volunteering / community based projects - but again,, these are really hard when young people do not want to be there . Speaking from experience of delivering things which are related to young people breaching orders if they dont attend.
vocational qualifications were starting to help in some areas for those young people who dont have an academic slant, but are good with practical skills. but the current government doesnt see the value in these so most are disappearing rapidly.
its a godawful time to be young and disadvantaged |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"some of the scroats an scallys knocking around the street corners would you really trust them with a gun in their hands? Note we said (some and not refering to all unemployed kids)
nooo i dont think teaching em to fight but maybe some sort of support role over here as the forces are stretched or community plans to help the aged ,anything to give them some feeling of self worth "
Yeah fair go cant argue with that! |
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"im with you there . perhaps we can start with a boot camp on a voluntary basis and expand from there . i bet a lot of the unemployed youth would probably jump at the chance to have something constructive to do . we can fund it from all the money local uthorities save form reduced vandalism and cleaning up grafiti ."
thats a great idea re the funds, and if you remember how many kids got turned around in the boot camp series ,if they have lots to do and the health and safety pricks keep out of it ,they might enjoy the change from the boring street corner |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"For idle hands ,so with up to 1 million kids unemployed do you think its time for some sort of national service ,to occupy them ,train them and give them a sense of worth.
Or should we leave em as they are languishing ?"
I've long thought that National Service should be reinstated, and it should be compulsory too. Every youth over 16 should do two years service before they reach 21 unless they are in full time education. |
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My son hit 20 and was still an unemployed scroat. His attitude sucked and to be honest I was at the point of kicking his lazy arse on the street. Instead I gave him 2 weeks to join the army or get a job.
8 months later he had army intake - lasted a week before he was medically discharged for a fake issue.
He broke his arm when he was 13, apparently the break hurt some more so they discharged him asap.
The army isn't an option, he came back with a worse attitude and more lazy than ever - my next step is to discharge him myself!
I agree with some enforced service but community service style - I made him shovel all of the snow out of our street in December, was surprising how much pride he had afterwards, and he made a point of going back and doing it for the rest of the week.
Government could save a fortune simply taking unemployed teens and putting them to work picking litter, scrubbing grafiti, plucking s from flowerbeds, sweeping town centres, shovelling salt onto spreaders waiting for the next frost, clearing paths, raking leaves... and so on.
At the moment he gets paid to sit on his arse and fap over his Xbox360 and it seems I'm powerless to do anything about it!
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"For idle hands ,so with up to 1 million kids unemployed do you think its time for some sort of national service ,to occupy them ,train them and give them a sense of worth.
Or should we leave em as they are languishing ?
I've long thought that National Service should be reinstated, and it should be compulsory too. Every youth over 16 should do two years service before they reach 21 unless they are in full time education."
i think it would be good call it a maturity assessment where at the end of it they get a written report on there progress to show to future employers,from what i can see they are ok if they have stuff to do to stop them getting bored. As the title said "the devil makes work for idle hands"
I dont think the costs would too high ,to take em out their comfort zone,bit of absailing,canoeing,running around as a team with a telegraph pole.getting from side a to side b without touching the ground something with a challenge and a bit of adrenalin rush popped in
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Government could save a fortune simply taking unemployed teens and putting them to work picking litter, scrubbing grafiti, plucking s from flowerbeds, sweeping town centres, shovelling salt onto spreaders waiting for the next frost, clearing paths, raking leaves... and so on."
It's a good ideaology but we discussed the minimum wage on another thread and how disabled people can't find work. Using the unemployed for menial community tasks is no different if we don't pay them at least the minimum wage, but if they're doing a job a council worker would normally do then should get the same rate of pay a council worker gets, and if there is enough work for the council to keep the unemployed employed then why not employ them? |
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the participation age for education is going to rise to 17 in 2013 and 18 in 2015 , and it wont mean school per se. It will include work related learning, apprenticeships, and part time learning if a young person is in some form of volunteering for a set number of hours ( I think its 16 or 20 )
but again, its got to be meaningful..not just a containment exercise. Will we end up criminalising more kids than we already do if they dont engage?
in a number of european countries young people have to stay in education until they reach a set level of qualification ( GCSE standard ) or a set age. For example in the Netherlands its 23 or when they get a degree, whichever is earlier. The committment post 16 is only 2 days a week but it maintains that level of engagement and expectation of learning until much later, when decision making can be a lot more informed than as a 16 yr old.
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"My son hit 20 and was still an unemployed scroat. His attitude sucked and to be honest I was at the point of kicking his lazy arse on the street. Instead I gave him 2 weeks to join the army or get a job.
8 months later he had army intake - lasted a week before he was medically discharged for a fake issue.
He broke his arm when he was 13, apparently the break hurt some more so they discharged him asap.
The army isn't an option, he came back with a worse attitude and more lazy than ever - my next step is to discharge him myself!
I agree with some enforced service but community service style - I made him shovel all of the snow out of our street in December, was surprising how much pride he had afterwards, and he made a point of going back and doing it for the rest of the week.
Government could save a fortune simply taking unemployed teens and putting them to work picking litter, scrubbing grafiti, plucking s from flowerbeds, sweeping town centres, shovelling salt onto spreaders waiting for the next frost, clearing paths, raking leaves... and so on.
At the moment he gets paid to sit on his arse and fap over his Xbox360 and it seems I'm powerless to do anything about it!
"
something to be said for that community slant the snow clearance squads ,plants etc ,in fact anything where because of austerity measures theres a gap,as long as its structured and involves team work i tihnk it would be invaluable and they would love it tbh |
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"
Government could save a fortune simply taking unemployed teens and putting them to work picking litter, scrubbing grafiti, plucking s from flowerbeds, sweeping town centres, shovelling salt onto spreaders waiting for the next frost, clearing paths, raking leaves... and so on.
It's a good ideaology but we discussed the minimum wage on another thread and how disabled people can't find work. Using the unemployed for menial community tasks is no different if we don't pay them at least the minimum wage, but if they're doing a job a council worker would normally do then should get the same rate of pay a council worker gets, and if there is enough work for the council to keep the unemployed employed then why not employ them?"
totally agree . There's also the issue of self esteeem here ... if youre one of the kids whose worknig really hard to get employment, learn new skills etc ..would you really want to know that this sort of employment would be forced on you when you already feel pretty crap? However, it may have a place for those who persistently avoid engaging in anything positive? |
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"
Government could save a fortune simply taking unemployed teens and putting them to work picking litter, scrubbing grafiti, plucking s from flowerbeds, sweeping town centres, shovelling salt onto spreaders waiting for the next frost, clearing paths, raking leaves... and so on.
It's a good ideaology but we discussed the minimum wage on another thread and how disabled people can't find work. Using the unemployed for menial community tasks is no different if we don't pay them at least the minimum wage, but if they're doing a job a council worker would normally do then should get the same rate of pay a council worker gets, and if there is enough work for the council to keep the unemployed employed then why not employ them?
totally agree . There's also the issue of self esteeem here ... if youre one of the kids whose worknig really hard to get employment, learn new skills etc ..would you really want to know that this sort of employment would be forced on you when you already feel pretty crap? However, it may have a place for those who persistently avoid engaging in anything positive? "
well its taken a work slant and tbh that was not really the intention my concern is that the young people of today have little to do and psycologically put themselves in the unemployment bin as there is little work at present ,i just think its such a great opportunity to show them the worth to society they do have.with the demographic shift we are going to need these kids and preparation for the real
world of work and self discipline can be achieved rather than hanging around on an xbox or a street corner ,but i agrre it has to be something they would engage with and feel worthy. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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its a fabulous idea but would have to be comunity based not military based as has been said further up there ^^^ as the MOD could not fund it these days they are as skint as the rest of us
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I did time with CSV when I left school. I grew up in a very poor household and it was my opportunity to be funded to leave home ( in a nut shell ). I lived in a group home with three men with learning disabilities for 6 months, and got it extended for a second 6 months.
It gave me board and lodging and any expenses occured, plus £15 a week...it was a long time ago!
i learnt so much from that experience, and while my school had washed its hands of me as i couldnt go to Uni ( therefore they didnt bother with me after that decision ), this put me on the path to something very positive. Even if i'd not initially stayed in that field of employment it gave me social skills, independencec, a committment to those less able within the community and employability skills.
CSV still runs, along with other great volunteering schemes. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"For idle hands ,so with up to 1 million kids unemployed do you think its time for some sort of national service ,to occupy them ,train them and give them a sense of worth.
Or should we leave em as they are languishing ?"
Have always said they need to bring back national service...it doesnt have to include weapons at all but should also be as soon as they leave school.
16 to 20 and we would see a difference in our youth.
Other countries have similar so why not this country. |
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"My son hit 20 and was still an unemployed scroat. His attitude sucked and to be honest I was at the point of kicking his lazy arse on the street. Instead I gave him 2 weeks to join the army or get a job.
8 months later he had army intake - lasted a week before he was medically discharged for a fake issue.
He broke his arm when he was 13, apparently the break hurt some more so they discharged him asap.
The army isn't an option, he came back with a worse attitude and more lazy than ever - my next step is to discharge him myself!
I agree with some enforced service but community service style - I made him shovel all of the snow out of our street in December, was surprising how much pride he had afterwards, and he made a point of going back and doing it for the rest of the week.
Government could save a fortune simply taking unemployed teens and putting them to work picking litter, scrubbing grafiti, plucking s from flowerbeds, sweeping town centres, shovelling salt onto spreaders waiting for the next frost, clearing paths, raking leaves... and so on.
At the moment he gets paid to sit on his arse and fap over his Xbox360 and it seems I'm powerless to do anything about it!
"
my 17 yr old daughter thought she could laze around all day whilst my partner and i work full time and do nothing around the house at all, so i gave her an ultimatum, she left stayed with a mate, then housing helped her find somewhere to live and they pay benefit for her to live there ?????but i must say Job Centre are now more stringent with unemployed 17 yr olds and they have to continually sign on x sue |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Have always said they need to bring back national service...it doesnt have to include weapons at all but should also be as soon as they leave school.
16 to 20 and we would see a difference in our youth.
Other countries have similar so why not this country."
Agree, many countries have national service. Have spoken to kids who look on it as their 'gap'years, they do it between school and university or full time work. Some have told me that much as they didn't want to do it, they felt mature and adult afterwards and better prepared for their university or work years ahead. |
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"
Have always said they need to bring back national service...it doesnt have to include weapons at all but should also be as soon as they leave school.
16 to 20 and we would see a difference in our youth.
Other countries have similar so why not this country.
Agree, many countries have national service. Have spoken to kids who look on it as their 'gap'years, they do it between school and university or full time work. Some have told me that much as they didn't want to do it, they felt mature and adult afterwards and better prepared for their university or work years ahead."
i am not surprised laine ,i think kids have to be given adult responsibilities to help them make the transition to adulthood as well as to make them feel worthwhile and to identify things they are good at or what skills they have already. I watched a programme on bbc 3 about a secure child unit and some of those kids come in positively ferral ,but the difference when they are given trust and a bit of responsibility was amazing ,they settled down and actually started to plan for the future.
i just think successive governments since the 70s have failed the youth of this country (that is non political incidently).it lumps in all govts |
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"
Have always said they need to bring back national service...it doesnt have to include weapons at all but should also be as soon as they leave school.
16 to 20 and we would see a difference in our youth.
Other countries have similar so why not this country.
Agree, many countries have national service. Have spoken to kids who look on it as their 'gap'years, they do it between school and university or full time work. Some have told me that much as they didn't want to do it, they felt mature and adult afterwards and better prepared for their university or work years ahead.
i am not surprised laine ,i think kids have to be given adult responsibilities to help them make the transition to adulthood as well as to make them feel worthwhile and to identify things they are good at or what skills they have already. I watched a programme on bbc 3 about a secure child unit and some of those kids come in positively ferral ,but the difference when they are given trust and a bit of responsibility was amazing ,they settled down and actually started to plan for the future.
i just think successive governments since the 70s have failed the youth of this country (that is non political incidently).it lumps in all govts"
Not only failed them but given them unrealistic and unobtainable aspirations in most cases. |
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