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So what is politically correct?
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""political correctness noun the avoidance of forms of expression or action that are perceived to exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against." So is it politically correct to insult, exclude or try to marginalize those who do not agree with political correctness?? Is this not just the pot calling the kettle black - and often stemming from an attitude of intellectual superiority? Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant?" No. It's just that people are less afraid to challenge bigots. | |||
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" Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant?" Yes it is, from liberals that wont tolerate other views. | |||
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""political correctness noun the avoidance of forms of expression or action that are perceived to exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against." So is it politically correct to insult, exclude or try to marginalize those who do not agree with political correctness?? Is this not just the pot calling the kettle black - and often stemming from an attitude of intellectual superiority? Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant? No. It's just that people are less afraid to challenge bigots. " exactly this.. | |||
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""political correctness noun the avoidance of forms of expression or action that are perceived to exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against." So is it politically correct to insult, exclude or try to marginalize those who do not agree with political correctness?? Is this not just the pot calling the kettle black - and often stemming from an attitude of intellectual superiority? Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant? No. It's just that people are less afraid to challenge bigots. " bigot 'b?g?t/ noun a person who is intolerant towards those holding different opinions. Isn't a TS calling Germaine Greer an old bigot in fact just bigotry? Just swapping one kind of bigotry for another is not progress in my book. | |||
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" Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant?Yes it is, from liberals that wont tolerate other views." "Won't tolerate"? We still have free speech here - it is well within your rights to challenge views that you find objectionable, even if precious little snowflakes like you have a cry about it. | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
""political correctness noun the avoidance of forms of expression or action that are perceived to exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against." So is it politically correct to insult, exclude or try to marginalize those who do not agree with political correctness?? Is this not just the pot calling the kettle black - and often stemming from an attitude of intellectual superiority? Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant? No. It's just that people are less afraid to challenge bigots. bigot 'b?g?t/ noun a person who is intolerant towards those holding different opinions. Isn't a TS calling Germaine Greer an old bigot in fact just bigotry? Just swapping one kind of bigotry for another is not progress in my book." No, of course not.  | |||
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" Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant?Yes it is, from liberals that wont tolerate other views. "Won't tolerate"? We still have free speech here - it is well within your rights to challenge views that you find objectionable, even if precious little snowflakes like you have a cry about it. " Is calling shaggers 'a precious little snowflake' not insulting him? Intolerance? Bigotry? | |||
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"This discussion won't be different to the one that has just closed or any of the others under the same or similar titles, so what other point do you think can be made, OP? " I thought there were some good points made at the end, and I for one am happy to continue to discuss it for a little while - i was not involved in the earlier debate, that was a different one to my eye, and before the programme was aired. I thought Trevor made some excellent points. | |||
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" Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant?Yes it is, from liberals that wont tolerate other views. "Won't tolerate"? We still have free speech here - it is well within your rights to challenge views that you find objectionable, even if precious little snowflakes like you have a cry about it. Is calling shaggers 'a precious little snowflake' not insulting him? Intolerance? Bigotry?" That is right you will alwais get intolerant people like that. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant?Yes it is, from liberals that wont tolerate other views. "Won't tolerate"? We still have free speech here - it is well within your rights to challenge views that you find objectionable, even if precious little snowflakes like you have a cry about it. Is calling shaggers 'a precious little snowflake' not insulting him? Intolerance? Bigotry?" Not at all - if you'd been paying attentiion to the far right, you'd know that they are using the term "snowflake" to describe anybody who decides to stand up to their views. I'm merely piinting out that it is they who get mortaly offended when anybody challenges them. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant?Yes it is, from liberals that wont tolerate other views. "Won't tolerate"? We still have free speech here - it is well within your rights to challenge views that you find objectionable, even if precious little snowflakes like you have a cry about it. Is calling shaggers 'a precious little snowflake' not insulting him? Intolerance? Bigotry?That is right you will alwais get intolerant people like that." I tolerate you, It doesn't mean that I don't think you are a bit pathetic. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant?Yes it is, from liberals that wont tolerate other views. "Won't tolerate"? We still have free speech here - it is well within your rights to challenge views that you find objectionable, even if precious little snowflakes like you have a cry about it. Is calling shaggers 'a precious little snowflake' not insulting him? Intolerance? Bigotry?That is right you will alwais get intolerant people like that. I tolerate you, It doesn't mean that I don't think you are a bit pathetic. " That is good, at least I dont say what I think about you and I am the better person for it. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant?Yes it is, from liberals that wont tolerate other views. "Won't tolerate"? We still have free speech here - it is well within your rights to challenge views that you find objectionable, even if precious little snowflakes like you have a cry about it. Is calling shaggers 'a precious little snowflake' not insulting him? Intolerance? Bigotry? Not at all - if you'd been paying attentiion to the far right, you'd know that they are using the term "snowflake" to describe anybody who decides to stand up to their views. I'm merely piinting out that it is they who get mortaly offended when anybody challenges them. " I don't think Shaggers does challenge the far right, or ever get offended though, so I don't see the relevance of the insult? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant?Yes it is, from liberals that wont tolerate other views. "Won't tolerate"? We still have free speech here - it is well within your rights to challenge views that you find objectionable, even if precious little snowflakes like you have a cry about it. Is calling shaggers 'a precious little snowflake' not insulting him? Intolerance? Bigotry?That is right you will alwais get intolerant people like that. I tolerate you, It doesn't mean that I don't think you are a bit pathetic. That is good, at least I dont say what I think about you and I am the better person for it." Do you? You've never been shy about your views before. It certainly doesn't make you a better person. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant?Yes it is, from liberals that wont tolerate other views. "Won't tolerate"? We still have free speech here - it is well within your rights to challenge views that you find objectionable, even if precious little snowflakes like you have a cry about it. Is calling shaggers 'a precious little snowflake' not insulting him? Intolerance? Bigotry?That is right you will alwais get intolerant people like that. I tolerate you, It doesn't mean that I don't think you are a bit pathetic. That is good, at least I dont say what I think about you and I am the better person for it." You bloody are too Shaggers, and I have great respect for your tolerance whatever else I may disagree with you about!  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant?Yes it is, from liberals that wont tolerate other views. "Won't tolerate"? We still have free speech here - it is well within your rights to challenge views that you find objectionable, even if precious little snowflakes like you have a cry about it. Is calling shaggers 'a precious little snowflake' not insulting him? Intolerance? Bigotry? Not at all - if you'd been paying attentiion to the far right, you'd know that they are using the term "snowflake" to describe anybody who decides to stand up to their views. I'm merely piinting out that it is they who get mortaly offended when anybody challenges them. I don't think Shaggers does challenge the far right, or ever get offended though, so I don't see the relevance of the insult?" No, shaggers is the far right. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant?Yes it is, from liberals that wont tolerate other views. "Won't tolerate"? We still have free speech here - it is well within your rights to challenge views that you find objectionable, even if precious little snowflakes like you have a cry about it. Is calling shaggers 'a precious little snowflake' not insulting him? Intolerance? Bigotry?That is right you will alwais get intolerant people like that. I tolerate you, It doesn't mean that I don't think you are a bit pathetic. " Why the need to insult someone who has done nothing against you? Where does that bile come from? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant?Yes it is, from liberals that wont tolerate other views. "Won't tolerate"? We still have free speech here - it is well within your rights to challenge views that you find objectionable, even if precious little snowflakes like you have a cry about it. Is calling shaggers 'a precious little snowflake' not insulting him? Intolerance? Bigotry?That is right you will alwais get intolerant people like that. I tolerate you, It doesn't mean that I don't think you are a bit pathetic. That is good, at least I dont say what I think about you and I am the better person for it. You bloody are too Shaggers, and I have great respect for your tolerance whatever else I may disagree with you about! "Ty and that is right too  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant?Yes it is, from liberals that wont tolerate other views. "Won't tolerate"? We still have free speech here - it is well within your rights to challenge views that you find objectionable, even if precious little snowflakes like you have a cry about it. Is calling shaggers 'a precious little snowflake' not insulting him? Intolerance? Bigotry?That is right you will alwais get intolerant people like that. I tolerate you, It doesn't mean that I don't think you are a bit pathetic. Why the need to insult someone who has done nothing against you? Where does that bile come from?" I don't like the far right, shaggers included. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant?Yes it is, from liberals that wont tolerate other views. "Won't tolerate"? We still have free speech here - it is well within your rights to challenge views that you find objectionable, even if precious little snowflakes like you have a cry about it. Is calling shaggers 'a precious little snowflake' not insulting him? Intolerance? Bigotry? Not at all - if you'd been paying attentiion to the far right, you'd know that they are using the term "snowflake" to describe anybody who decides to stand up to their views. I'm merely piinting out that it is they who get mortaly offended when anybody challenges them. I don't think Shaggers does challenge the far right, or ever get offended though, so I don't see the relevance of the insult? No, shaggers is the far right. " And yet he always appears tolerant and non-judgemental - bizarre huh!  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant?Yes it is, from liberals that wont tolerate other views. "Won't tolerate"? We still have free speech here - it is well within your rights to challenge views that you find objectionable, even if precious little snowflakes like you have a cry about it. Is calling shaggers 'a precious little snowflake' not insulting him? Intolerance? Bigotry? Not at all - if you'd been paying attentiion to the far right, you'd know that they are using the term "snowflake" to describe anybody who decides to stand up to their views. I'm merely piinting out that it is they who get mortaly offended when anybody challenges them. I don't think Shaggers does challenge the far right, or ever get offended though, so I don't see the relevance of the insult? No, shaggers is the far right. And yet he always appears tolerant and non-judgemental - bizarre huh! "Really? Green arrow and/or check out the politics forum. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant?Yes it is, from liberals that wont tolerate other views. "Won't tolerate"? We still have free speech here - it is well within your rights to challenge views that you find objectionable, even if precious little snowflakes like you have a cry about it. Is calling shaggers 'a precious little snowflake' not insulting him? Intolerance? Bigotry?That is right you will alwais get intolerant people like that. I tolerate you, It doesn't mean that I don't think you are a bit pathetic. Why the need to insult someone who has done nothing against you? Where does that bile come from? I don't like the far right, shaggers included. " Maybe it would be more politically correct to disagree with his views without despising or insulting the holder of them?? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant?Yes it is, from liberals that wont tolerate other views. "Won't tolerate"? We still have free speech here - it is well within your rights to challenge views that you find objectionable, even if precious little snowflakes like you have a cry about it. Is calling shaggers 'a precious little snowflake' not insulting him? Intolerance? Bigotry?That is right you will alwais get intolerant people like that. I tolerate you, It doesn't mean that I don't think you are a bit pathetic. Why the need to insult someone who has done nothing against you? Where does that bile come from? I don't like the far right, shaggers included. Maybe it would be more politically correct to disagree with his views without despising or insulting the holder of them??" Politically correct is not my term, it is a term invented to criticise people like me, so no. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant?Yes it is, from liberals that wont tolerate other views. "Won't tolerate"? We still have free speech here - it is well within your rights to challenge views that you find objectionable, even if precious little snowflakes like you have a cry about it. Is calling shaggers 'a precious little snowflake' not insulting him? Intolerance? Bigotry?That is right you will alwais get intolerant people like that. I tolerate you, It doesn't mean that I don't think you are a bit pathetic. Why the need to insult someone who has done nothing against you? Where does that bile come from? I don't like the far right, shaggers included. Maybe it would be more politically correct to disagree with his views without despising or insulting the holder of them??" That is right and it is against the forum rules too about being personal. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant?Yes it is, from liberals that wont tolerate other views. "Won't tolerate"? We still have free speech here - it is well within your rights to challenge views that you find objectionable, even if precious little snowflakes like you have a cry about it. Is calling shaggers 'a precious little snowflake' not insulting him? Intolerance? Bigotry? Not at all - if you'd been paying attentiion to the far right, you'd know that they are using the term "snowflake" to describe anybody who decides to stand up to their views. I'm merely piinting out that it is they who get mortaly offended when anybody challenges them. I don't think Shaggers does challenge the far right, or ever get offended though, so I don't see the relevance of the insult? No, shaggers is the far right. And yet he always appears tolerant and non-judgemental - bizarre huh!
Really?
Green arrow and/or check out the politics forum. "Ah, I don't go there so can only comment on what I have seen expressed in the lounge over the past 3 years. Maybe he just judges different views to you?? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant?Yes it is, from liberals that wont tolerate other views. "Won't tolerate"? We still have free speech here - it is well within your rights to challenge views that you find objectionable, even if precious little snowflakes like you have a cry about it. Is calling shaggers 'a precious little snowflake' not insulting him? Intolerance? Bigotry?That is right you will alwais get intolerant people like that. I tolerate you, It doesn't mean that I don't think you are a bit pathetic. Why the need to insult someone who has done nothing against you? Where does that bile come from? I don't like the far right, shaggers included. Maybe it would be more politically correct to disagree with his views without despising or insulting the holder of them?? Politically correct is not my term, it is a term invented to criticise people like me, so no. " Ah OK, so you ARE the pot calling the kettle! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant?Yes it is, from liberals that wont tolerate other views. "Won't tolerate"? We still have free speech here - it is well within your rights to challenge views that you find objectionable, even if precious little snowflakes like you have a cry about it. Is calling shaggers 'a precious little snowflake' not insulting him? Intolerance? Bigotry? Not at all - if you'd been paying attentiion to the far right, you'd know that they are using the term "snowflake" to describe anybody who decides to stand up to their views. I'm merely piinting out that it is they who get mortaly offended when anybody challenges them. I don't think Shaggers does challenge the far right, or ever get offended though, so I don't see the relevance of the insult? No, shaggers is the far right. And yet he always appears tolerant and non-judgemental - bizarre huh!
Really?
Green arrow and/or check out the politics forum.
Ah, I don't go there so can only comment on what I have seen expressed in the lounge over the past 3 years. Maybe he just judges different views to you??"That is right as we got lots of problems in sweden. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant?Yes it is, from liberals that wont tolerate other views. "Won't tolerate"? We still have free speech here - it is well within your rights to challenge views that you find objectionable, even if precious little snowflakes like you have a cry about it. Is calling shaggers 'a precious little snowflake' not insulting him? Intolerance? Bigotry? Not at all - if you'd been paying attentiion to the far right, you'd know that they are using the term "snowflake" to describe anybody who decides to stand up to their views. I'm merely piinting out that it is they who get mortaly offended when anybody challenges them. I don't think Shaggers does challenge the far right, or ever get offended though, so I don't see the relevance of the insult? No, shaggers is the far right. And yet he always appears tolerant and non-judgemental - bizarre huh!
Really?
Green arrow and/or check out the politics forum.
Ah, I don't go there so can only comment on what I have seen expressed in the lounge over the past 3 years. Maybe he just judges different views to you??"Yeah, something like that. But then, so do the BNP. Should I accept them? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant?Yes it is, from liberals that wont tolerate other views. "Won't tolerate"? We still have free speech here - it is well within your rights to challenge views that you find objectionable, even if precious little snowflakes like you have a cry about it. Is calling shaggers 'a precious little snowflake' not insulting him? Intolerance? Bigotry?That is right you will alwais get intolerant people like that. I tolerate you, It doesn't mean that I don't think you are a bit pathetic. Why the need to insult someone who has done nothing against you? Where does that bile come from? I don't like the far right, shaggers included. Maybe it would be more politically correct to disagree with his views without despising or insulting the holder of them?? Politically correct is not my term, it is a term invented to criticise people like me, so no. Ah OK, so you ARE the pot calling the kettle! "Not at all. I am just not willing to be intimidated by the "political correctness gone mad" brigade. It is a tool intended to stifle opinion, and I won't comply. How do you feel about siding with the alt-right? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant?Yes it is, from liberals that wont tolerate other views. "Won't tolerate"? We still have free speech here - it is well within your rights to challenge views that you find objectionable, even if precious little snowflakes like you have a cry about it. Is calling shaggers 'a precious little snowflake' not insulting him? Intolerance? Bigotry? Not at all - if you'd been paying attentiion to the far right, you'd know that they are using the term "snowflake" to describe anybody who decides to stand up to their views. I'm merely piinting out that it is they who get mortaly offended when anybody challenges them. I don't think Shaggers does challenge the far right, or ever get offended though, so I don't see the relevance of the insult? No, shaggers is the far right. And yet he always appears tolerant and non-judgemental - bizarre huh!
Really?
Green arrow and/or check out the politics forum.
Ah, I don't go there so can only comment on what I have seen expressed in the lounge over the past 3 years. Maybe he just judges different views to you??
Yeah, something like that. But then, so do the BNP. Should I accept them?"Acceptance isn't the only alternative to hatred though. | |||
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""exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against." -snip- Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant?" Two points. First, political correctness applies to socially disadvantaged minorities. Whilst bigots are a minority (one would hope), they aren't particularly disadvantaged. Second, being intolerant of intolerance is not the same as being intolerant of race/gender/faith/etc. Trying to suggest they're remotely similar is puerile at best and disingenuous at worst. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant?Yes it is, from liberals that wont tolerate other views. "Won't tolerate"? We still have free speech here - it is well within your rights to challenge views that you find objectionable, even if precious little snowflakes like you have a cry about it. Is calling shaggers 'a precious little snowflake' not insulting him? Intolerance? Bigotry? Not at all - if you'd been paying attentiion to the far right, you'd know that they are using the term "snowflake" to describe anybody who decides to stand up to their views. I'm merely piinting out that it is they who get mortaly offended when anybody challenges them. I don't think Shaggers does challenge the far right, or ever get offended though, so I don't see the relevance of the insult? No, shaggers is the far right. And yet he always appears tolerant and non-judgemental - bizarre huh!
Really?
Green arrow and/or check out the politics forum.
Ah, I don't go there so can only comment on what I have seen expressed in the lounge over the past 3 years. Maybe he just judges different views to you??
Yeah, something like that. But then, so do the BNP. Should I accept them?
Acceptance isn't the only alternative to hatred though."I know. It's certainly not my alternative, (as demonstrated) rather it's the alternative that you suggested. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
""exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against." -snip- Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant? Two points. First, political correctness applies to socially disadvantaged minorities. Whilst bigots are a minority (one would hope), they aren't particularly disadvantaged. Second, being intolerant of intolerance is not the same as being intolerant of race/gender/faith/etc. Trying to suggest they're remotely similar is puerile at best and disingenuous at worst." | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant?Yes it is, from liberals that wont tolerate other views. "Won't tolerate"? We still have free speech here - it is well within your rights to challenge views that you find objectionable, even if precious little snowflakes like you have a cry about it. Is calling shaggers 'a precious little snowflake' not insulting him? Intolerance? Bigotry?That is right you will alwais get intolerant people like that. I tolerate you, It doesn't mean that I don't think you are a bit pathetic. Why the need to insult someone who has done nothing against you? Where does that bile come from? I don't like the far right, shaggers included. Maybe it would be more politically correct to disagree with his views without despising or insulting the holder of them?? Politically correct is not my term, it is a term invented to criticise people like me, so no. Ah OK, so you ARE the pot calling the kettle!
Not at all. I am just not willing to be intimidated by the "political correctness gone mad" brigade. It is a tool intended to stifle opinion, and I won't comply.
How do you feel about siding with the alt-right?"I'm not political - I am simply commenting on what I observe. I oppose dogma and bias in religion or science equally for instance, and venom and bile - whether it be from left or right, and in this instance the hypocrisy of spewing it out in the guise of righteous PC-ness with an air of intellectual superiority. Yes, I have seen a lot of that coming from the liberal left elite lately and I am shocked frankly. Most of the people I know in that bracket are privileged and educated and should know better in my opinion, and I believe that is a lot of what this 'right wing backlash' is about. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant?Yes it is, from liberals that wont tolerate other views. "Won't tolerate"? We still have free speech here - it is well within your rights to challenge views that you find objectionable, even if precious little snowflakes like you have a cry about it. Is calling shaggers 'a precious little snowflake' not insulting him? Intolerance? Bigotry? Not at all - if you'd been paying attentiion to the far right, you'd know that they are using the term "snowflake" to describe anybody who decides to stand up to their views. I'm merely piinting out that it is they who get mortaly offended when anybody challenges them. I don't think Shaggers does challenge the far right, or ever get offended though, so I don't see the relevance of the insult? No, shaggers is the far right. And yet he always appears tolerant and non-judgemental - bizarre huh!
Really?
Green arrow and/or check out the politics forum.
Ah, I don't go there so can only comment on what I have seen expressed in the lounge over the past 3 years. Maybe he just judges different views to you??
Yeah, something like that. But then, so do the BNP. Should I accept them?
Acceptance isn't the only alternative to hatred though.
I know. It's certainly not my alternative, (as demonstrated) rather it's the alternative that you suggested. "No, nowhere do I suggest you accept it - oppose it vehemently by all means, but personal insults do not achieve that, ever, I suggest they are counter-productive. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant?Yes it is, from liberals that wont tolerate other views. "Won't tolerate"? We still have free speech here - it is well within your rights to challenge views that you find objectionable, even if precious little snowflakes like you have a cry about it. Is calling shaggers 'a precious little snowflake' not insulting him? Intolerance? Bigotry?That is right you will alwais get intolerant people like that. I tolerate you, It doesn't mean that I don't think you are a bit pathetic. Why the need to insult someone who has done nothing against you? Where does that bile come from? I don't like the far right, shaggers included. Maybe it would be more politically correct to disagree with his views without despising or insulting the holder of them?? Politically correct is not my term, it is a term invented to criticise people like me, so no. Ah OK, so you ARE the pot calling the kettle!
Not at all. I am just not willing to be intimidated by the "political correctness gone mad" brigade. It is a tool intended to stifle opinion, and I won't comply.
How do you feel about siding with the alt-right?
I'm not political - I am simply commenting on what I observe.
I oppose dogma and bias in religion or science equally for instance, and venom and bile - whether it be from left or right, and in this instance the hypocrisy of spewing it out in the guise of righteous PC-ness with an air of intellectual superiority. Yes, I have seen a lot of that coming from the liberal left elite lately and I am shocked frankly. Most of the people I know in that bracket are privileged and educated and should know better in my opinion, and I believe that is a lot of what this 'right wing backlash' is about. "You are not political, except you start political threads and engage in political discussions.... Other than that, the rest is your experience. I've never known PC try to shut down speech...because, quite frankly its mostly used as a straw man by the far right to criticise people who attempt to think about others. | |||
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""exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against." -snip- Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant? Two points. First, political correctness applies to socially disadvantaged minorities. Whilst bigots are a minority (one would hope), they aren't particularly disadvantaged. Second, being intolerant of intolerance is not the same as being intolerant of race/gender/faith/etc. Trying to suggest they're remotely similar is puerile at best and disingenuous at worst." Oh I agree when it is a case of intolerance of an idea, or action - but when it comes to personal hatred and vitriol - I see no difference, the spirit behind it is the same. I do not see religion or communism or facism as ever being the problem....human hatred is. | |||
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""exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against." -snip- Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant? Two points. First, political correctness applies to socially disadvantaged minorities. Whilst bigots are a minority (one would hope), they aren't particularly disadvantaged. Second, being intolerant of intolerance is not the same as being intolerant of race/gender/faith/etc. Trying to suggest they're remotely similar is puerile at best and disingenuous at worst." Absolutely, thank you for making this point coherently. It's so important not to confuse this issue and I feel this thread is...terribly. The alt-right is something I will not tolerate ever. | |||
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" Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant?Yes it is, from liberals that wont tolerate other views. "Won't tolerate"? We still have free speech here - it is well within your rights to challenge views that you find objectionable, even if precious little snowflakes like you have a cry about it. Is calling shaggers 'a precious little snowflake' not insulting him? Intolerance? Bigotry? Not at all - if you'd been paying attentiion to the far right, you'd know that they are using the term "snowflake" to describe anybody who decides to stand up to their views. I'm merely piinting out that it is they who get mortaly offended when anybody challenges them. I don't think Shaggers does challenge the far right, or ever get offended though, so I don't see the relevance of the insult? No, shaggers is the far right. And yet he always appears tolerant and non-judgemental - bizarre huh!
Really?
Green arrow and/or check out the politics forum.
Ah, I don't go there so can only comment on what I have seen expressed in the lounge over the past 3 years. Maybe he just judges different views to you??
Yeah, something like that. But then, so do the BNP. Should I accept them?
Acceptance isn't the only alternative to hatred though.
I know. It's certainly not my alternative, (as demonstrated) rather it's the alternative that you suggested.
No, nowhere do I suggest you accept it - oppose it vehemently by all means, but personal insults do not achieve that, ever, I suggest they are counter-productive."Personal insults are fine - they are used against the likes of me by the far-right who you seem to be an apoligist for at the very least, if not a supporter of. I'm quite happy to throw them back. | |||
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" You are not political, except you start political threads and engage in political discussions.... Other than that, the rest is your experience. I've never known PC try to shut down speech..." That may be a difference of perception, I have seen it a lot, and I think the TV programme highlighted it. My point is not political - it is more philosophical I think? PC venom is no more acceptable than facist venom. | |||
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""exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against." -snip- Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant? Two points. First, political correctness applies to socially disadvantaged minorities. Whilst bigots are a minority (one would hope), they aren't particularly disadvantaged. Second, being intolerant of intolerance is not the same as being intolerant of race/gender/faith/etc. Trying to suggest they're remotely similar is puerile at best and disingenuous at worst. Oh I agree when it is a case of intolerance of an idea, or action - but when it comes to personal hatred and vitriol - I see no difference, the spirit behind it is the same. I do not see religion or communism or facism as ever being the problem....human hatred is." The kind of hatred you support on this thead? | |||
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" Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant?Yes it is, from liberals that wont tolerate other views. "Won't tolerate"? We still have free speech here - it is well within your rights to challenge views that you find objectionable, even if precious little snowflakes like you have a cry about it. Is calling shaggers 'a precious little snowflake' not insulting him? Intolerance? Bigotry? Not at all - if you'd been paying attentiion to the far right, you'd know that they are using the term "snowflake" to describe anybody who decides to stand up to their views. I'm merely piinting out that it is they who get mortaly offended when anybody challenges them. I don't think Shaggers does challenge the far right, or ever get offended though, so I don't see the relevance of the insult? No, shaggers is the far right. And yet he always appears tolerant and non-judgemental - bizarre huh!
Really?
Green arrow and/or check out the politics forum.
Ah, I don't go there so can only comment on what I have seen expressed in the lounge over the past 3 years. Maybe he just judges different views to you??
Yeah, something like that. But then, so do the BNP. Should I accept them?
Acceptance isn't the only alternative to hatred though.
I know. It's certainly not my alternative, (as demonstrated) rather it's the alternative that you suggested.
No, nowhere do I suggest you accept it - oppose it vehemently by all means, but personal insults do not achieve that, ever, I suggest they are counter-productive.
Personal insults are fine - ........ I'm quite happy to throw them back. "Well, we will have to agree to disagree - I think you are misguided in that belief. | |||
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""exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against." -snip- Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant? Two points. First, political correctness applies to socially disadvantaged minorities. Whilst bigots are a minority (one would hope), they aren't particularly disadvantaged. Second, being intolerant of intolerance is not the same as being intolerant of race/gender/faith/etc. Trying to suggest they're remotely similar is puerile at best and disingenuous at worst. Oh I agree when it is a case of intolerance of an idea, or action - but when it comes to personal hatred and vitriol - I see no difference, the spirit behind it is the same. I do not see religion or communism or facism as ever being the problem....human hatred is. The kind of hatred you support on this thead?" I have not supported any, you are mistaken if you believe that. | |||
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""exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against." -snip- Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant? Two points. First, political correctness applies to socially disadvantaged minorities. Whilst bigots are a minority (one would hope), they aren't particularly disadvantaged. Second, being intolerant of intolerance is not the same as being intolerant of race/gender/faith/etc. Trying to suggest they're remotely similar is puerile at best and disingenuous at worst. Oh I agree when it is a case of intolerance of an idea, or action - but when it comes to personal hatred and vitriol - I see no difference, the spirit behind it is the same. I do not see religion or communism or facism as ever being the problem....human hatred is." "If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor." If I am witness to someone being racist (or similar) I will call it out -- and it may get personal. I find those views deeply offensive and personal and they should be called exactly what they are. I understand your sentiment OP but I fear your point misses the point in some circumstances. And that concerns me. | |||
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""political correctness noun the avoidance of forms of expression or action that are perceived to exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against." So is it politically correct to insult, exclude or try to marginalize those who do not agree with political correctness?? Is this not just the pot calling the kettle black - and often stemming from an attitude of intellectual superiority? Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant? No. It's just that people are less afraid to challenge bigots. " The irony being these people are far more bigoted, facist and violent than the people they "challenge" | |||
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" PC venom is no more acceptable than facist venom." Gosh. OK then. | |||
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""political correctness noun the avoidance of forms of expression or action that are perceived to exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against." So is it politically correct to insult, exclude or try to marginalize those who do not agree with political correctness?? Is this not just the pot calling the kettle black - and often stemming from an attitude of intellectual superiority? Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant? No. It's just that people are less afraid to challenge bigots. The irony being these people are far more bigoted, facist and violent than the people they "challenge"" Am I? Do you actually know what a fascist is? | |||
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""exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against." -snip- Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant? Two points. First, political correctness applies to socially disadvantaged minorities. Whilst bigots are a minority (one would hope), they aren't particularly disadvantaged. Second, being intolerant of intolerance is not the same as being intolerant of race/gender/faith/etc. Trying to suggest they're remotely similar is puerile at best and disingenuous at worst. Absolutely, thank you for making this point coherently. It's so important not to confuse this issue and I feel this thread is...terribly. The alt-right is something I will not tolerate ever." Quite right, but if you hate, are you any better? | |||
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""exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against." -snip- Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant? Two points. First, political correctness applies to socially disadvantaged minorities. Whilst bigots are a minority (one would hope), they aren't particularly disadvantaged. Second, being intolerant of intolerance is not the same as being intolerant of race/gender/faith/etc. Trying to suggest they're remotely similar is puerile at best and disingenuous at worst. Absolutely, thank you for making this point coherently. It's so important not to confuse this issue and I feel this thread is...terribly. The alt-right is something I will not tolerate ever. Quite right, but if you hate, are you any better?" Yes. If you are standing up to oppression, don't be so naive. | |||
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""exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against." -snip- Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant? Two points. First, political correctness applies to socially disadvantaged minorities. Whilst bigots are a minority (one would hope), they aren't particularly disadvantaged. Second, being intolerant of intolerance is not the same as being intolerant of race/gender/faith/etc. Trying to suggest they're remotely similar is puerile at best and disingenuous at worst. Absolutely, thank you for making this point coherently. It's so important not to confuse this issue and I feel this thread is...terribly. The alt-right is something I will not tolerate ever. Quite right, but if you hate, are you any better?" There is a difference between hate and anger. "Anger is a gift" | |||
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""exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against." -snip- Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant? Two points. First, political correctness applies to socially disadvantaged minorities. Whilst bigots are a minority (one would hope), they aren't particularly disadvantaged. Second, being intolerant of intolerance is not the same as being intolerant of race/gender/faith/etc. Trying to suggest they're remotely similar is puerile at best and disingenuous at worst. Absolutely, thank you for making this point coherently. It's so important not to confuse this issue and I feel this thread is...terribly. The alt-right is something I will not tolerate ever. Quite right, but if you hate, are you any better? There is a difference between hate and anger. "Anger is a gift"" | |||
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". "If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor." If I am witness to someone being racist (or similar) I will call it out -- and it may get personal. I find those views deeply offensive and personal and they should be called exactly what they are. I understand your sentiment OP but I fear your point misses the point in some circumstances. And that concerns me. " Why personal? | |||
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". "If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor." If I am witness to someone being racist (or similar) I will call it out -- and it may get personal. I find those views deeply offensive and personal and they should be called exactly what they are. I understand your sentiment OP but I fear your point misses the point in some circumstances. And that concerns me. Why personal?" Which bit, I use the word twice...? | |||
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""exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against." -snip- Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant? Two points. First, political correctness applies to socially disadvantaged minorities. Whilst bigots are a minority (one would hope), they aren't particularly disadvantaged. Second, being intolerant of intolerance is not the same as being intolerant of race/gender/faith/etc. Trying to suggest they're remotely similar is puerile at best and disingenuous at worst. Absolutely, thank you for making this point coherently. It's so important not to confuse this issue and I feel this thread is...terribly. The alt-right is something I will not tolerate ever. Quite right, but if you hate, are you any better? There is a difference between hate and anger. "Anger is a gift"" That depends on what has fuelled the anger lol! But yes, anger can be perfectly legitimate I agree. It can be 'clean' or totally corrupt. | |||
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". "If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor." If I am witness to someone being racist (or similar) I will call it out -- and it may get personal. I find those views deeply offensive and personal and they should be called exactly what they are. I understand your sentiment OP but I fear your point misses the point in some circumstances. And that concerns me." | |||
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"PC venom is no more acceptable than facist venom." But where is this 'PC venom'? People on a swinging forum being a bit rude to each other? Not exactly comparable to fascism, is it? | |||
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""political correctness noun the avoidance of forms of expression or action that are perceived to exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against." So is it politically correct to insult, exclude or try to marginalize those who do not agree with political correctness?? Is this not just the pot calling the kettle black - and often stemming from an attitude of intellectual superiority? Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant? No. It's just that people are less afraid to challenge bigots. The irony being these people are far more bigoted, facist and violent than the people they "challenge" Am I? Do you actually know what a fascist is?" I dont know are you? Id say facist is denying people the right to speak or debate thier views. I'd say facist is using violence to oppress those you disagree with from speaking. I'd say facist is the idiots in black bloc who dont quite realise thier a simple outfit change away from the brown shirts. Do you know what a facist is? | |||
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". "If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor." If I am witness to someone being racist (or similar) I will call it out -- and it may get personal. I find those views deeply offensive and personal and they should be called exactly what they are. I understand your sentiment OP but I fear your point misses the point in some circumstances. And that concerns me. Why personal? Which bit, I use the word twice...?" Either. For instance my best mate is black. If someone insulted or offended him I would defend him and challenge their action- but why would I get personal? | |||
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"PC venom is no more acceptable than facist venom. But where is this 'PC venom'? People on a swinging forum being a bit rude to each other? Not exactly comparable to fascism, is it? " See my earlier comment about the amusing juxtaposition in the common far-right insult "snowflake".... | |||
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"PC venom is no more acceptable than facist venom. But where is this 'PC venom'? People on a swinging forum being a bit rude to each other? Not exactly comparable to fascism, is it? " Do you not watch the news? These tolerant pc people beat women with a flag pole only a few weeks ago at Berkeley | |||
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"PC venom is no more acceptable than facist venom. But where is this 'PC venom'? People on a swinging forum being a bit rude to each other? Not exactly comparable to fascism, is it? " Spite is spite. I heard a lot from my Guardian reading friends after the referendum, I was appalled at the depth of it expressed, yes. | |||
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""political correctness noun the avoidance of forms of expression or action that are perceived to exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against." So is it politically correct to insult, exclude or try to marginalize those who do not agree with political correctness?? Is this not just the pot calling the kettle black - and often stemming from an attitude of intellectual superiority? Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant? No. It's just that people are less afraid to challenge bigots. The irony being these people are far more bigoted, facist and violent than the people they "challenge" Am I? Do you actually know what a fascist is? I dont know are you? Id say facist is denying people the right to speak or debate thier views. I'd say facist is using violence to oppress those you disagree with from speaking. I'd say facist is the idiots in black bloc who dont quite realise thier a simple outfit change away from the brown shirts. Do you know what a facist is?" So basically, you agree with me? I've never tried to deny that people should have free speech, I have only ever pointed out that I have the samr eight and will challenge their view when I hear it. | |||
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""political correctness noun the avoidance of forms of expression or action that are perceived to exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against." So is it politically correct to insult, exclude or try to marginalize those who do not agree with political correctness?? Is this not just the pot calling the kettle black - and often stemming from an attitude of intellectual superiority? Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant? No. It's just that people are less afraid to challenge bigots. The irony being these people are far more bigoted, facist and violent than the people they "challenge" Am I? Do you actually know what a fascist is? I dont know are you? Id say facist is denying people the right to speak or debate thier views. I'd say facist is using violence to oppress those you disagree with from speaking. I'd say facist is the idiots in black bloc who dont quite realise thier a simple outfit change away from the brown shirts. Do you know what a facist is? So basically, you agree with me? I've never tried to deny that people should have free speech, I have only ever pointed out that I have the samr eight and will challenge their view when I hear it. " Right but thats not how a very large portion of people are acting is it? They are banning people from speaking at universities They arw commingg crimes, violence and assults against them when they do speak at univeristies etc. Are you out standing against these violent people or is it ok as theyre on your side | |||
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"PC venom is no more acceptable than facist venom. But where is this 'PC venom'? People on a swinging forum being a bit rude to each other? Not exactly comparable to fascism, is it? Spite is spite. I heard a lot from my Guardian reading friends after the referendum, I was appalled at the depth of it expressed, yes." And what I would describe as a kind of passive aggression too - I believe the programme touched on that, I do believe it is becoming a little oppressive, it IS being used to stifle freedom of speech. | |||
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"Or that female trump supporter who whole being interviewed by a tv crew about an anti trump protest near by finsihed with "but yeah i respect thier views and that theyre doing it peacefully withour violence".....right before one of the "tollerant" protesters runs up and peper sprays her in the face ...." Are you somehow trying to say that violence towards opponents is a liberal trait? Because the far right never go in for that, do they?  | |||
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". "If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor." If I am witness to someone being racist (or similar) I will call it out -- and it may get personal. I find those views deeply offensive and personal and they should be called exactly what they are. I understand your sentiment OP but I fear your point misses the point in some circumstances. And that concerns me. Why personal? Which bit, I use the word twice...? Either. For instance my best mate is black. If someone insulted or offended him I would defend him and challenge their action- but why would I get personal?" I'd call out their actions and words as being racist (if they were). That's what I mean by getting personal. | |||
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""political correctness noun the avoidance of forms of expression or action that are perceived to exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against." So is it politically correct to insult, exclude or try to marginalize those who do not agree with political correctness?? Is this not just the pot calling the kettle black - and often stemming from an attitude of intellectual superiority? Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant? No. It's just that people are less afraid to challenge bigots. The irony being these people are far more bigoted, facist and violent than the people they "challenge" Am I? Do you actually know what a fascist is? I dont know are you? Id say facist is denying people the right to speak or debate thier views. I'd say facist is using violence to oppress those you disagree with from speaking. I'd say facist is the idiots in black bloc who dont quite realise thier a simple outfit change away from the brown shirts. Do you know what a facist is? So basically, you agree with me? I've never tried to deny that people should have free speech, I have only ever pointed out that I have the samr eight and will challenge their view when I hear it. Right but thats not how a very large portion of people are acting is it? They are banning people from speaking at universities They arw commingg crimes, violence and assults against them when they do speak at univeristies etc. Are you out standing against these violent people or is it ok as theyre on your side" Who has been banned from speaing at any British universities please? | |||
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". "If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor." If I am witness to someone being racist (or similar) I will call it out -- and it may get personal. I find those views deeply offensive and personal and they should be called exactly what they are. I understand your sentiment OP but I fear your point misses the point in some circumstances. And that concerns me. Why personal? Which bit, I use the word twice...? Either. For instance my best mate is black. If someone insulted or offended him I would defend him and challenge their action- but why would I get personal? I'd call out their actions and words as being racist (if they were). That's what I mean by getting personal. " Ok Ok, fair enough. I try to differentiate behaviour from identity, I think that's important. | |||
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"PC venom is no more acceptable than facist venom. But where is this 'PC venom'? People on a swinging forum being a bit rude to each other? Not exactly comparable to fascism, is it? Spite is spite. I heard a lot from my Guardian reading friends after the referendum, I was appalled at the depth of it expressed, yes." Far right voters, in my opinion, operate from a place of ignorance or self-service. The policies that their votes endorse I find personally affronting. Am I being spiteful? Or stating my opinion? | |||
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"The mods must be a coffee break lol" I think everyone is being very tolerant actually lol! | |||
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""political correctness noun the avoidance of forms of expression or action that are perceived to exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against." So is it politically correct to insult, exclude or try to marginalize those who do not agree with political correctness?? Is this not just the pot calling the kettle black - and often stemming from an attitude of intellectual superiority? Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant? No. It's just that people are less afraid to challenge bigots. The irony being these people are far more bigoted, facist and violent than the people they "challenge" Am I? Do you actually know what a fascist is? I dont know are you? Id say facist is denying people the right to speak or debate thier views. I'd say facist is using violence to oppress those you disagree with from speaking. I'd say facist is the idiots in black bloc who dont quite realise thier a simple outfit change away from the brown shirts. Do you know what a facist is? So basically, you agree with me? I've never tried to deny that people should have free speech, I have only ever pointed out that I have the samr eight and will challenge their view when I hear it. Right but thats not how a very large portion of people are acting is it? They are banning people from speaking at universities They arw commingg crimes, violence and assults against them when they do speak at univeristies etc. Are you out standing against these violent people or is it ok as theyre on your side Who has been banned from speaing at any British universities please?" UKIP? | |||
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"Or that female trump supporter who whole being interviewed by a tv crew about an anti trump protest near by finsihed with "but yeah i respect thier views and that theyre doing it peacefully withour violence".....right before one of the "tollerant" protesters runs up and peper sprays her in the face ...." Why would you suggest that anyone here is supporting violence, bit of a leap...? | |||
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"The mods must be a coffee break lol I think everyone is being very tolerant actually lol! "That is right they are lol. | |||
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"Or that female trump supporter who whole being interviewed by a tv crew about an anti trump protest near by finsihed with "but yeah i respect thier views and that theyre doing it peacefully withour violence".....right before one of the "tollerant" protesters runs up and peper sprays her in the face .... Are you somehow trying to say that violence towards opponents is a liberal trait? Because the far right never go in for that, do they? "LOL | |||
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"Or that female trump supporter who whole being interviewed by a tv crew about an anti trump protest near by finsihed with "but yeah i respect thier views and that theyre doing it peacefully withour violence".....right before one of the "tollerant" protesters runs up and peper sprays her in the face ...." Obviously that is wrong and much too far. This is far from common, though. | |||
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". "If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor." If I am witness to someone being racist (or similar) I will call it out -- and it may get personal. I find those views deeply offensive and personal and they should be called exactly what they are. I understand your sentiment OP but I fear your point misses the point in some circumstances. And that concerns me. Why personal? Which bit, I use the word twice...? Either. For instance my best mate is black. If someone insulted or offended him I would defend him and challenge their action- but why would I get personal? I'd call out their actions and words as being racist (if they were). That's what I mean by getting personal. Ok Ok, fair enough. I try to differentiate behaviour from identity, I think that's important." As I did. | |||
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"The mods must be a coffee break lol I think everyone is being very tolerant actually lol! "What are you offended by Shag? | |||
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""political correctness noun the avoidance of forms of expression or action that are perceived to exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against." So is it politically correct to insult, exclude or try to marginalize those who do not agree with political correctness?? Is this not just the pot calling the kettle black - and often stemming from an attitude of intellectual superiority? Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant? No. It's just that people are less afraid to challenge bigots. The irony being these people are far more bigoted, facist and violent than the people they "challenge" Am I? Do you actually know what a fascist is? I dont know are you? Id say facist is denying people the right to speak or debate thier views. I'd say facist is using violence to oppress those you disagree with from speaking. I'd say facist is the idiots in black bloc who dont quite realise thier a simple outfit change away from the brown shirts. Do you know what a facist is? So basically, you agree with me? I've never tried to deny that people should have free speech, I have only ever pointed out that I have the samr eight and will challenge their view when I hear it. Right but thats not how a very large portion of people are acting is it? They are banning people from speaking at universities They arw commingg crimes, violence and assults against them when they do speak at univeristies etc. Are you out standing against these violent people or is it ok as theyre on your side Who has been banned from speaing at any British universities please? UKIP?" "Not invited" is not "banned".....
I can't see the UKs mainstream fascist party being particularly appealing to students anyway..... | |||
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"Or that female trump supporter who whole being interviewed by a tv crew about an anti trump protest near by finsihed with "but yeah i respect thier views and that theyre doing it peacefully withour violence".....right before one of the "tollerant" protesters runs up and peper sprays her in the face .... Obviously that is wrong and much too far. This is far from common, though. " Seriously do you not watch the news? There are whole riots, this has been going on almost weekly for the past year now. All tbe violence at berkley the other week for instance | |||
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""political correctness noun the avoidance of forms of expression or action that are perceived to exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against." So is it politically correct to insult, exclude or try to marginalize those who do not agree with political correctness?? Is this not just the pot calling the kettle black - and often stemming from an attitude of intellectual superiority? Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant? No. It's just that people are less afraid to challenge bigots. The irony being these people are far more bigoted, facist and violent than the people they "challenge" Am I? Do you actually know what a fascist is? I dont know are you? Id say facist is denying people the right to speak or debate thier views. I'd say facist is using violence to oppress those you disagree with from speaking. I'd say facist is the idiots in black bloc who dont quite realise thier a simple outfit change away from the brown shirts. Do you know what a facist is? So basically, you agree with me? I've never tried to deny that people should have free speech, I have only ever pointed out that I have the samr eight and will challenge their view when I hear it. Right but thats not how a very large portion of people are acting is it? They are banning people from speaking at universities They arw commingg crimes, violence and assults against them when they do speak at univeristies etc. Are you out standing against these violent people or is it ok as theyre on your side Who has been banned from speaing at any British universities please? UKIP? "Not invited" is not "banned".....
I can't see the UKs mainstream fascist party being particularly appealing to students anyway....."Careful Jimi, you'll be accused of making a passive aggressive intellectual superiority comment! | |||
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"Or that female trump supporter who whole being interviewed by a tv crew about an anti trump protest near by finsihed with "but yeah i respect thier views and that theyre doing it peacefully withour violence".....right before one of the "tollerant" protesters runs up and peper sprays her in the face .... Obviously that is wrong and much too far. This is far from common, though. Seriously do you not watch the news? There are whole riots, this has been going on almost weekly for the past year now. All tbe violence at berkley the other week for instance " Weekly riots, for a year? | |||
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""political correctness noun the avoidance of forms of expression or action that are perceived to exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against." So is it politically correct to insult, exclude or try to marginalize those who do not agree with political correctness?? Is this not just the pot calling the kettle black - and often stemming from an attitude of intellectual superiority? Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant? No. It's just that people are less afraid to challenge bigots. The irony being these people are far more bigoted, facist and violent than the people they "challenge" Am I? Do you actually know what a fascist is? I dont know are you? Id say facist is denying people the right to speak or debate thier views. I'd say facist is using violence to oppress those you disagree with from speaking. I'd say facist is the idiots in black bloc who dont quite realise thier a simple outfit change away from the brown shirts. Do you know what a facist is? So basically, you agree with me? I've never tried to deny that people should have free speech, I have only ever pointed out that I have the samr eight and will challenge their view when I hear it. Right but thats not how a very large portion of people are acting is it? They are banning people from speaking at universities They arw commingg crimes, violence and assults against them when they do speak at univeristies etc. Are you out standing against these violent people or is it ok as theyre on your side Who has been banned from speaing at any British universities please? UKIP? "Not invited" is not "banned".....
I can't see the UKs mainstream fascist party being particularly appealing to students anyway....."Errr no banned is banned. Seriously does no one watch the news? several student unions banned them from speaking derby being one for example beacuse students "need to feel safe" .and again i think its far more facist to ban free speech than want to leave the eu | |||
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"PC venom is no more acceptable than facist venom. But where is this 'PC venom'? People on a swinging forum being a bit rude to each other? Not exactly comparable to fascism, is it? Spite is spite. I heard a lot from my Guardian reading friends after the referendum, I was appalled at the depth of it expressed, yes. Far right voters, in my opinion, operate from a place of ignorance or self-service. The policies that their votes endorse I find personally affronting. Am I being spiteful? Or stating my opinion?" I've never seen you do anything but state an opinion - but you appear thoughtful and self-examining generally. As I say, I saw a lot of spite being aired after the referendum so maybe I tend to notice it more now. It's often very self-righteous and superior and I find it very distasteful. | |||
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"Or that female trump supporter who whole being interviewed by a tv crew about an anti trump protest near by finsihed with "but yeah i respect thier views and that theyre doing it peacefully withour violence".....right before one of the "tollerant" protesters runs up and peper sprays her in the face .... Obviously that is wrong and much too far. This is far from common, though. Seriously do you not watch the news? There are whole riots, this has been going on almost weekly for the past year now. All tbe violence at berkley the other week for instance " There has been one incidence of a student assaluting someone from the far right PER WEEK for the last year?? Any stats for that? | |||
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"Or that female trump supporter who whole being interviewed by a tv crew about an anti trump protest near by finsihed with "but yeah i respect thier views and that theyre doing it peacefully withour violence".....right before one of the "tollerant" protesters runs up and peper sprays her in the face .... Obviously that is wrong and much too far. This is far from common, though. Seriously do you not watch the news? There are whole riots, this has been going on almost weekly for the past year now. All tbe violence at berkley the other week for instance Weekly riots, for a year? "No weekly violence the riots have been msotly since the election | |||
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"Or that female trump supporter who whole being interviewed by a tv crew about an anti trump protest near by finsihed with "but yeah i respect thier views and that theyre doing it peacefully withour violence".....right before one of the "tollerant" protesters runs up and peper sprays her in the face .... Obviously that is wrong and much too far. This is far from common, though. Seriously do you not watch the news? There are whole riots, this has been going on almost weekly for the past year now. All tbe violence at berkley the other week for instance " And nothing on the other side? And the news is always balanced? Oh dear. | |||
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""political correctness noun the avoidance of forms of expression or action that are perceived to exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against." So is it politically correct to insult, exclude or try to marginalize those who do not agree with political correctness?? Is this not just the pot calling the kettle black - and often stemming from an attitude of intellectual superiority? Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant? No. It's just that people are less afraid to challenge bigots. The irony being these people are far more bigoted, facist and violent than the people they "challenge" Am I? Do you actually know what a fascist is? I dont know are you? Id say facist is denying people the right to speak or debate thier views. I'd say facist is using violence to oppress those you disagree with from speaking. I'd say facist is the idiots in black bloc who dont quite realise thier a simple outfit change away from the brown shirts. Do you know what a facist is? So basically, you agree with me? I've never tried to deny that people should have free speech, I have only ever pointed out that I have the samr eight and will challenge their view when I hear it. Right but thats not how a very large portion of people are acting is it? They are banning people from speaking at universities They arw commingg crimes, violence and assults against them when they do speak at univeristies etc. Are you out standing against these violent people or is it ok as theyre on your side Who has been banned from speaing at any British universities please? UKIP? "Not invited" is not "banned".....
I can't see the UKs mainstream fascist party being particularly appealing to students anyway.....
Careful Jimi, you'll be accused of making a passive aggressive intellectual superiority comment!"No Jim is openly aggressive for sure!! | |||
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"Or that female trump supporter who whole being interviewed by a tv crew about an anti trump protest near by finsihed with "but yeah i respect thier views and that theyre doing it peacefully withour violence".....right before one of the "tollerant" protesters runs up and peper sprays her in the face .... Obviously that is wrong and much too far. This is far from common, though. Seriously do you not watch the news? There are whole riots, this has been going on almost weekly for the past year now. All tbe violence at berkley the other week for instance Weekly riots, for a year?
No weekly violence the riots have been msotly since the election "Weekly violence by 'PC' people for a year. Sure. | |||
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"PC venom is no more acceptable than facist venom. But where is this 'PC venom'? People on a swinging forum being a bit rude to each other? Not exactly comparable to fascism, is it? Spite is spite. I heard a lot from my Guardian reading friends after the referendum, I was appalled at the depth of it expressed, yes. Far right voters, in my opinion, operate from a place of ignorance or self-service. The policies that their votes endorse I find personally affronting. Am I being spiteful? Or stating my opinion? I've never seen you do anything but state an opinion - but you appear thoughtful and self-examining generally. As I say, I saw a lot of spite being aired after the referendum so maybe I tend to notice it more now. It's often very self-righteous and superior and I find it very distasteful." Fair enough. I have to say I find t'other side more distasteful and more worth my worry about fighting. Sometimes you need to actually get down and dirty when the stakes are high. | |||
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""political correctness noun the avoidance of forms of expression or action that are perceived to exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against." So is it politically correct to insult, exclude or try to marginalize those who do not agree with political correctness?? Is this not just the pot calling the kettle black - and often stemming from an attitude of intellectual superiority? Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant? No. It's just that people are less afraid to challenge bigots. The irony being these people are far more bigoted, facist and violent than the people they "challenge" Am I? Do you actually know what a fascist is? I dont know are you? Id say facist is denying people the right to speak or debate thier views. I'd say facist is using violence to oppress those you disagree with from speaking. I'd say facist is the idiots in black bloc who dont quite realise thier a simple outfit change away from the brown shirts. Do you know what a facist is? So basically, you agree with me? I've never tried to deny that people should have free speech, I have only ever pointed out that I have the samr eight and will challenge their view when I hear it. Right but thats not how a very large portion of people are acting is it? They are banning people from speaking at universities They arw commingg crimes, violence and assults against them when they do speak at univeristies etc. Are you out standing against these violent people or is it ok as theyre on your side Who has been banned from speaing at any British universities please? UKIP? "Not invited" is not "banned".....
I can't see the UKs mainstream fascist party being particularly appealing to students anyway.....
Errr no banned is banned.
Seriously does no one watch the news?
several student unions banned them from speaking derby being one for example beacuse students "need to feel safe"
.and again i think its far more facist to ban free speech than want to leave the eu"That's kinda fair enough, students are only kids and I gues that fascists might upset them a bit, a;though I'm still not convinced that what you call "banned" is, in reality "decided not to invite to speak"... | |||
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"Or that female trump supporter who whole being interviewed by a tv crew about an anti trump protest near by finsihed with "but yeah i respect thier views and that theyre doing it peacefully withour violence".....right before one of the "tollerant" protesters runs up and peper sprays her in the face .... Obviously that is wrong and much too far. This is far from common, though. Seriously do you not watch the news? There are whole riots, this has been going on almost weekly for the past year now. All tbe violence at berkley the other week for instance And nothing on the other side? And the news is always balanced? Oh dear. " Are you saying the people who went to attent the lecture and where violently assulted are to blame?  | |||
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""political correctness noun the avoidance of forms of expression or action that are perceived to exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against." So is it politically correct to insult, exclude or try to marginalize those who do not agree with political correctness?? Is this not just the pot calling the kettle black - and often stemming from an attitude of intellectual superiority? Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant? No. It's just that people are less afraid to challenge bigots. The irony being these people are far more bigoted, facist and violent than the people they "challenge" Am I? Do you actually know what a fascist is? I dont know are you? Id say facist is denying people the right to speak or debate thier views. I'd say facist is using violence to oppress those you disagree with from speaking. I'd say facist is the idiots in black bloc who dont quite realise thier a simple outfit change away from the brown shirts. Do you know what a facist is? So basically, you agree with me? I've never tried to deny that people should have free speech, I have only ever pointed out that I have the samr eight and will challenge their view when I hear it. Right but thats not how a very large portion of people are acting is it? They are banning people from speaking at universities They arw commingg crimes, violence and assults against them when they do speak at univeristies etc. Are you out standing against these violent people or is it ok as theyre on your side Who has been banned from speaing at any British universities please? UKIP? "Not invited" is not "banned".....
I can't see the UKs mainstream fascist party being particularly appealing to students anyway.....
Errr no banned is banned.
Seriously does no one watch the news?
several student unions banned them from speaking derby being one for example beacuse students "need to feel safe"
.and again i think its far more facist to ban free speech than want to leave the eu
That's kinda fair enough, students are only kids and I gues that fascists might upset them a bit, a;though I'm still not convinced that what you call "banned" is, in reality "decided not to invite to speak"... "No they where invited they had it sheduled ans then the student union banned them after a dew complaints. https://www.theguardian.com/science/2016/jun/28/prof-brian-cox-criticises-nonsensical-university-speaking-bans It happens a lot | |||
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""political correctness noun the avoidance of forms of expression or action that are perceived to exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against." So is it politically correct to insult, exclude or try to marginalize those who do not agree with political correctness?? Is this not just the pot calling the kettle black - and often stemming from an attitude of intellectual superiority? Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant? No. It's just that people are less afraid to challenge bigots. The irony being these people are far more bigoted, facist and violent than the people they "challenge" Am I? Do you actually know what a fascist is? I dont know are you? Id say facist is denying people the right to speak or debate thier views. I'd say facist is using violence to oppress those you disagree with from speaking. I'd say facist is the idiots in black bloc who dont quite realise thier a simple outfit change away from the brown shirts. Do you know what a facist is? So basically, you agree with me? I've never tried to deny that people should have free speech, I have only ever pointed out that I have the samr eight and will challenge their view when I hear it. Right but thats not how a very large portion of people are acting is it? They are banning people from speaking at universities They arw commingg crimes, violence and assults against them when they do speak at univeristies etc. Are you out standing against these violent people or is it ok as theyre on your side Who has been banned from speaing at any British universities please? UKIP? "Not invited" is not "banned".....
I can't see the UKs mainstream fascist party being particularly appealing to students anyway.....
Careful Jimi, you'll be accused of making a passive aggressive intellectual superiority comment!
No Jim is openly aggressive for sure!! "In this thread, I've got no issue with any of Jimi's comments (thus far ) and find his points assertive, direct and strong. But for me the issue requires that. So fair play. | |||
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""political correctness noun the avoidance of forms of expression or action that are perceived to exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against." So is it politically correct to insult, exclude or try to marginalize those who do not agree with political correctness?? Is this not just the pot calling the kettle black - and often stemming from an attitude of intellectual superiority? Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant? No. It's just that people are less afraid to challenge bigots. The irony being these people are far more bigoted, facist and violent than the people they "challenge" Am I? Do you actually know what a fascist is? I dont know are you? Id say facist is denying people the right to speak or debate thier views. I'd say facist is using violence to oppress those you disagree with from speaking. I'd say facist is the idiots in black bloc who dont quite realise thier a simple outfit change away from the brown shirts. Do you know what a facist is? So basically, you agree with me? I've never tried to deny that people should have free speech, I have only ever pointed out that I have the samr eight and will challenge their view when I hear it. Right but thats not how a very large portion of people are acting is it? They are banning people from speaking at universities They arw commingg crimes, violence and assults against them when they do speak at univeristies etc. Are you out standing against these violent people or is it ok as theyre on your side Who has been banned from speaing at any British universities please? UKIP? "Not invited" is not "banned".....
I can't see the UKs mainstream fascist party being particularly appealing to students anyway.....
Errr no banned is banned.
Seriously does no one watch the news?
several student unions banned them from speaking derby being one for example beacuse students "need to feel safe"
.and again i think its far more facist to ban free speech than want to leave the eu
That's kinda fair enough, students are only kids and I gues that fascists might upset them a bit, a;though I'm still not convinced that what you call "banned" is, in reality "decided not to invite to speak"...
No they where invited they had it sheduled ans then the student union banned them after a dew complaints.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2016/jun/28/prof-brian-cox-criticises-nonsensical-university-speaking-bans
It happens a lot
"It's not ideal, but UKIP are pretty extreme, it isn't like they banned a conservative speaker, is it? | |||
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"Or that female trump supporter who whole being interviewed by a tv crew about an anti trump protest near by finsihed with "but yeah i respect thier views and that theyre doing it peacefully withour violence".....right before one of the "tollerant" protesters runs up and peper sprays her in the face .... Obviously that is wrong and much too far. This is far from common, though. Seriously do you not watch the news? There are whole riots, this has been going on almost weekly for the past year now. All tbe violence at berkley the other week for instance And nothing on the other side? And the news is always balanced? Oh dear. Are you saying the people who went to attent the lecture and where violently assulted are to blame? "No. That's absolutely not what I said. | |||
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""political correctness noun the avoidance of forms of expression or action that are perceived to exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against." So is it politically correct to insult, exclude or try to marginalize those who do not agree with political correctness?? Is this not just the pot calling the kettle black - and often stemming from an attitude of intellectual superiority? Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant? No. It's just that people are less afraid to challenge bigots. The irony being these people are far more bigoted, facist and violent than the people they "challenge" Am I? Do you actually know what a fascist is? I dont know are you? Id say facist is denying people the right to speak or debate thier views. I'd say facist is using violence to oppress those you disagree with from speaking. I'd say facist is the idiots in black bloc who dont quite realise thier a simple outfit change away from the brown shirts. Do you know what a facist is? So basically, you agree with me? I've never tried to deny that people should have free speech, I have only ever pointed out that I have the samr eight and will challenge their view when I hear it. Right but thats not how a very large portion of people are acting is it? They are banning people from speaking at universities They arw commingg crimes, violence and assults against them when they do speak at univeristies etc. Are you out standing against these violent people or is it ok as theyre on your side Who has been banned from speaing at any British universities please? UKIP? "Not invited" is not "banned".....
I can't see the UKs mainstream fascist party being particularly appealing to students anyway.....
Errr no banned is banned.
Seriously does no one watch the news?
several student unions banned them from speaking derby being one for example beacuse students "need to feel safe"
.and again i think its far more facist to ban free speech than want to leave the eu
That's kinda fair enough, students are only kids and I gues that fascists might upset them a bit, a;though I'm still not convinced that what you call "banned" is, in reality "decided not to invite to speak"...
No they where invited they had it sheduled ans then the student union banned them after a dew complaints.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2016/jun/28/prof-brian-cox-criticises-nonsensical-university-speaking-bans
It happens a lot
It's not ideal, but UKIP are pretty extreme, it isn't like they banned a conservative speaker, is it?"They tried to ban thatchel one of the cpuntries oldest and most famous gay rights campaigners... | |||
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" I've never seen you do anything but state an opinion - but you appear thoughtful and self-examining generally. As I say, I saw a lot of spite being aired after the referendum so maybe I tend to notice it more now. It's often very self-righteous and superior and I find it very distasteful. Fair enough. I have to say I find t'other side more distasteful and more worth my worry about fighting. " Indeed, but it seems the masses are very concerned - I believe that's why they voted out of Europe and Trump into the White House. So maybe it's more of a problem than you realise. | |||
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""political correctness noun the avoidance of forms of expression or action that are perceived to exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against." So is it politically correct to insult, exclude or try to marginalize those who do not agree with political correctness?? Is this not just the pot calling the kettle black - and often stemming from an attitude of intellectual superiority? Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant? No. It's just that people are less afraid to challenge bigots. The irony being these people are far more bigoted, facist and violent than the people they "challenge" Am I? Do you actually know what a fascist is? I dont know are you? Id say facist is denying people the right to speak or debate thier views. I'd say facist is using violence to oppress those you disagree with from speaking. I'd say facist is the idiots in black bloc who dont quite realise thier a simple outfit change away from the brown shirts. Do you know what a facist is? So basically, you agree with me? I've never tried to deny that people should have free speech, I have only ever pointed out that I have the samr eight and will challenge their view when I hear it. Right but thats not how a very large portion of people are acting is it? They are banning people from speaking at universities They arw commingg crimes, violence and assults against them when they do speak at univeristies etc. Are you out standing against these violent people or is it ok as theyre on your side Who has been banned from speaing at any British universities please? UKIP? "Not invited" is not "banned".....
I can't see the UKs mainstream fascist party being particularly appealing to students anyway.....
Errr no banned is banned.
Seriously does no one watch the news?
several student unions banned them from speaking derby being one for example beacuse students "need to feel safe"
.and again i think its far more facist to ban free speech than want to leave the eu
That's kinda fair enough, students are only kids and I gues that fascists might upset them a bit, a;though I'm still not convinced that what you call "banned" is, in reality "decided not to invite to speak"...
No they where invited they had it sheduled ans then the student union banned them after a dew complaints.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2016/jun/28/prof-brian-cox-criticises-nonsensical-university-speaking-bans
It happens a lot
It's not ideal, but UKIP are pretty extreme, it isn't like they banned a conservative speaker, is it?
They tried to ban thatchel one of the cpuntries oldest and most famous gay rights campaigners...""tried to" means nothing. Did they actually ban him? | |||
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" I've never seen you do anything but state an opinion - but you appear thoughtful and self-examining generally. As I say, I saw a lot of spite being aired after the referendum so maybe I tend to notice it more now. It's often very self-righteous and superior and I find it very distasteful. Fair enough. I have to say I find t'other side more distasteful and more worth my worry about fighting. Indeed, but it seems the masses are very concerned - I believe that's why they voted out of Europe and Trump into the White House. So maybe it's more of a problem than you realise." But surely you like Trump, just like your tolerant friend shag? | |||
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""political correctness noun the avoidance of forms of expression or action that are perceived to exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against." So is it politically correct to insult, exclude or try to marginalize those who do not agree with political correctness?? Is this not just the pot calling the kettle black - and often stemming from an attitude of intellectual superiority? Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant? No. It's just that people are less afraid to challenge bigots. The irony being these people are far more bigoted, facist and violent than the people they "challenge" Am I? Do you actually know what a fascist is? I dont know are you? Id say facist is denying people the right to speak or debate thier views. I'd say facist is using violence to oppress those you disagree with from speaking. I'd say facist is the idiots in black bloc who dont quite realise thier a simple outfit change away from the brown shirts. Do you know what a facist is? So basically, you agree with me? I've never tried to deny that people should have free speech, I have only ever pointed out that I have the samr eight and will challenge their view when I hear it. Right but thats not how a very large portion of people are acting is it? They are banning people from speaking at universities They arw commingg crimes, violence and assults against them when they do speak at univeristies etc. Are you out standing against these violent people or is it ok as theyre on your side Who has been banned from speaing at any British universities please? UKIP? "Not invited" is not "banned".....
I can't see the UKs mainstream fascist party being particularly appealing to students anyway.....
Careful Jimi, you'll be accused of making a passive aggressive intellectual superiority comment!
No Jim is openly aggressive for sure!!
In this thread, I've got no issue with any of Jimi's comments (thus far ) and find his points assertive, direct and strong. But for me the issue requires that. So fair play. "Ah well, we can agree to disagree - I think personal insults are always 'over the line'. | |||
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"The femininist Julie Bindel. George galloway, was also banned" Germaine Greer too apparently? | |||
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""political correctness noun the avoidance of forms of expression or action that are perceived to exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against." So is it politically correct to insult, exclude or try to marginalize those who do not agree with political correctness?? Is this not just the pot calling the kettle black - and often stemming from an attitude of intellectual superiority? Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant? No. It's just that people are less afraid to challenge bigots. The irony being these people are far more bigoted, facist and violent than the people they "challenge" Am I? Do you actually know what a fascist is? I dont know are you? Id say facist is denying people the right to speak or debate thier views. I'd say facist is using violence to oppress those you disagree with from speaking. I'd say facist is the idiots in black bloc who dont quite realise thier a simple outfit change away from the brown shirts. Do you know what a facist is? So basically, you agree with me? I've never tried to deny that people should have free speech, I have only ever pointed out that I have the samr eight and will challenge their view when I hear it. Right but thats not how a very large portion of people are acting is it? They are banning people from speaking at universities They arw commingg crimes, violence and assults against them when they do speak at univeristies etc. Are you out standing against these violent people or is it ok as theyre on your side Who has been banned from speaing at any British universities please? UKIP? "Not invited" is not "banned".....
I can't see the UKs mainstream fascist party being particularly appealing to students anyway.....
Errr no banned is banned.
Seriously does no one watch the news?
several student unions banned them from speaking derby being one for example beacuse students "need to feel safe"
.and again i think its far more facist to ban free speech than want to leave the eu
That's kinda fair enough, students are only kids and I gues that fascists might upset them a bit, a;though I'm still not convinced that what you call "banned" is, in reality "decided not to invite to speak"...
No they where invited they had it sheduled ans then the student union banned them after a dew complaints.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2016/jun/28/prof-brian-cox-criticises-nonsensical-university-speaking-bans
It happens a lot
It's not ideal, but UKIP are pretty extreme, it isn't like they banned a conservative speaker, is it?
They tried to ban thatchel one of the cpuntries oldest and most famous gay rights campaigners...
"tried to" means nothing. Did they actually ban him?"Well the nus didnt offically ban him but thier representative refused to attened if he did so the event never happened. | |||
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" I've never seen you do anything but state an opinion - but you appear thoughtful and self-examining generally. As I say, I saw a lot of spite being aired after the referendum so maybe I tend to notice it more now. It's often very self-righteous and superior and I find it very distasteful. Fair enough. I have to say I find t'other side more distasteful and more worth my worry about fighting. Indeed, but it seems the masses are very concerned - I believe that's why they voted out of Europe and Trump into the White House. So maybe it's more of a problem than you realise." Eh? Your worry about PC vitriol is why Brexit and Trump happened? I think you've stepped from our disagreement into a mass generalisation to frame your point there. | |||
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"The femininist Julie Bindel. George galloway, was also banned Germaine Greer too apparently?" Forgot about her. Even when inwas in uni back in 08/09 student politics was insane. Iirc one election was determined on a vote thst had 3% turn out. | |||
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""political correctness noun the avoidance of forms of expression or action that are perceived to exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against." So is it politically correct to insult, exclude or try to marginalize those who do not agree with political correctness?? Is this not just the pot calling the kettle black - and often stemming from an attitude of intellectual superiority? Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant? No. It's just that people are less afraid to challenge bigots. The irony being these people are far more bigoted, facist and violent than the people they "challenge" Am I? Do you actually know what a fascist is? I dont know are you? Id say facist is denying people the right to speak or debate thier views. I'd say facist is using violence to oppress those you disagree with from speaking. I'd say facist is the idiots in black bloc who dont quite realise thier a simple outfit change away from the brown shirts. Do you know what a facist is? So basically, you agree with me? I've never tried to deny that people should have free speech, I have only ever pointed out that I have the samr eight and will challenge their view when I hear it. Right but thats not how a very large portion of people are acting is it? They are banning people from speaking at universities They arw commingg crimes, violence and assults against them when they do speak at univeristies etc. Are you out standing against these violent people or is it ok as theyre on your side Who has been banned from speaing at any British universities please? UKIP? "Not invited" is not "banned".....
I can't see the UKs mainstream fascist party being particularly appealing to students anyway.....
Careful Jimi, you'll be accused of making a passive aggressive intellectual superiority comment!
No Jim is openly aggressive for sure!!
In this thread, I've got no issue with any of Jimi's comments (thus far ) and find his points assertive, direct and strong. But for me the issue requires that. So fair play.
Ah well, we can agree to disagree - I think personal insults are always 'over the line'. "Is this a reference to the snowflake comment? | |||
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" I've never seen you do anything but state an opinion - but you appear thoughtful and self-examining generally. As I say, I saw a lot of spite being aired after the referendum so maybe I tend to notice it more now. It's often very self-righteous and superior and I find it very distasteful. Fair enough. I have to say I find t'other side more distasteful and more worth my worry about fighting. Indeed, but it seems the masses are very concerned - I believe that's why they voted out of Europe and Trump into the White House. So maybe it's more of a problem than you realise. Eh? Your worry about PC vitriol is why Brexit and Trump happened? I think you've stepped from our disagreement into a mass generalisation to frame your point there." I think the point is there is a very large segment of society that is sick of being told that everything is thier fault, that theyre stupid, ignorant, racists, facist etc. These people however tend to be in the demographics that actually vote unlile the vocal student bases minority that attacks them. | |||
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" I've never seen you do anything but state an opinion - but you appear thoughtful and self-examining generally. As I say, I saw a lot of spite being aired after the referendum so maybe I tend to notice it more now. It's often very self-righteous and superior and I find it very distasteful. Fair enough. I have to say I find t'other side more distasteful and more worth my worry about fighting. Indeed, but it seems the masses are very concerned - I believe that's why they voted out of Europe and Trump into the White House. So maybe it's more of a problem than you realise. But surely you like Trump, just like your tolerant friend shag?" Oh Jim, do you often jump to conclusions like this - haven't you checked my green arrow?? Noo, Trump is putting on a great show of deluded, misogynist, ignorance and bigotry, I think he probably has Narcissistic Personality Disorder to boot haha! I don't think he'll last long but who knows.  | |||
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" I've never seen you do anything but state an opinion - but you appear thoughtful and self-examining generally. As I say, I saw a lot of spite being aired after the referendum so maybe I tend to notice it more now. It's often very self-righteous and superior and I find it very distasteful. Fair enough. I have to say I find t'other side more distasteful and more worth my worry about fighting. Indeed, but it seems the masses are very concerned - I believe that's why they voted out of Europe and Trump into the White House. So maybe it's more of a problem than you realise. Eh? Your worry about PC vitriol is why Brexit and Trump happened? I think you've stepped from our disagreement into a mass generalisation to frame your point there." Did you watch the programme tonight? | |||
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"ok..lets bring this back to freedom of speech..I've made clear in my last posts on the other thread a few points. ok..lets read a newspaper..lets use the Sun,and lets use hillsborough as an example, which is quite a horrific piece of journalism- it caused outrage and effectively put a BRITISH city's inhabitants as the lowest of the low..the news spread fast didnt it?..ignoring the tragedy it was..a sensational story came out...which was a fucking pack of lies, only to which has been apologized for very recently. we also had many negative stories about blacks and gays(till it became more popular(sells more papers) to be either) these same exact tabloid systems are at it again, this time they have a great wagon based on race,culture,immigration and religion..which ultimately gets tied in with islamic terrorism. Freedom of the press...freedom to promote fear,intolerance,hatred,violence. yes, they'll get the odd story out that'll help validate the slightly twisted truth ones...then they'll just keep something rolling in the meantime... Of course, then there are televised lies....most recently? a couple of trumpee officials...talking about a massacre that never actually happened(while there was a truth in the story.....nobody was actually hurt nor killed!).....imagine people turning up to pay their respects to invisible non existent massacred dead people...awww, we better ban muslims... so yeah...I can become intolerant of some shit that comes outta peoples mouths if it is perpetuating hate. " except this is 2017 you can see footage of pretty much every single event spoken about in the news of liveleak etc and see for ypurself what happend | |||
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" I've never seen you do anything but state an opinion - but you appear thoughtful and self-examining generally. As I say, I saw a lot of spite being aired after the referendum so maybe I tend to notice it more now. It's often very self-righteous and superior and I find it very distasteful. Fair enough. I have to say I find t'other side more distasteful and more worth my worry about fighting. Indeed, but it seems the masses are very concerned - I believe that's why they voted out of Europe and Trump into the White House. So maybe it's more of a problem than you realise. Eh? Your worry about PC vitriol is why Brexit and Trump happened? I think you've stepped from our disagreement into a mass generalisation to frame your point there. I think the point is there is a very large segment of society that is sick of being told that everything is thier fault, that theyre stupid, ignorant, racists, facist etc. These people however tend to be in the demographics that actually vote unlile the vocal student bases minority that attacks them. " I agree there are large numbers of people fed up. I don't believe it's a result of political correctness gone mad. So I stand behind it being a leap. | |||
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" I've never seen you do anything but state an opinion - but you appear thoughtful and self-examining generally. As I say, I saw a lot of spite being aired after the referendum so maybe I tend to notice it more now. It's often very self-righteous and superior and I find it very distasteful. Fair enough. I have to say I find t'other side more distasteful and more worth my worry about fighting. Indeed, but it seems the masses are very concerned - I believe that's why they voted out of Europe and Trump into the White House. So maybe it's more of a problem than you realise. But surely you like Trump, just like your tolerant friend shag? Oh Jim, do you often jump to conclusions like this - haven't you checked my green arrow?? Noo, Trump is putting on a great show of deluded, misogynist, ignorance and bigotry, I think he probably has Narcissistic Personality Disorder to boot haha! I don't think he'll last long but who knows. "Careful with making clinical diagnoses there, that's personal and I'm not sure if you're qualified to do so and it's also damning to those who legitimately suffer NPD....he may behave narcissisticly but that doesn't automatically mean he has NPD. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/17/donald-trump-narcisissm-mentally-ill-personality?CMP=fb_gu | |||
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" I've never seen you do anything but state an opinion - but you appear thoughtful and self-examining generally. As I say, I saw a lot of spite being aired after the referendum so maybe I tend to notice it more now. It's often very self-righteous and superior and I find it very distasteful. Fair enough. I have to say I find t'other side more distasteful and more worth my worry about fighting. Indeed, but it seems the masses are very concerned - I believe that's why they voted out of Europe and Trump into the White House. So maybe it's more of a problem than you realise. Eh? Your worry about PC vitriol is why Brexit and Trump happened? I think you've stepped from our disagreement into a mass generalisation to frame your point there. I think the point is there is a very large segment of society that is sick of being told that everything is thier fault, that theyre stupid, ignorant, racists, facist etc. " Exactly, it's a bit of a 'peasants revolt' and has swung in exactly the opposite direction than the liberal elite were driving for. That would constitute an epic fail in my book - though actually I think it is a matter of zeitgeist anyway. | |||
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" I've never seen you do anything but state an opinion - but you appear thoughtful and self-examining generally. As I say, I saw a lot of spite being aired after the referendum so maybe I tend to notice it more now. It's often very self-righteous and superior and I find it very distasteful. Fair enough. I have to say I find t'other side more distasteful and more worth my worry about fighting. Indeed, but it seems the masses are very concerned - I believe that's why they voted out of Europe and Trump into the White House. So maybe it's more of a problem than you realise. But surely you like Trump, just like your tolerant friend shag? Oh Jim, do you often jump to conclusions like this - haven't you checked my green arrow?? Noo, Trump is putting on a great show of deluded, misogynist, ignorance and bigotry, I think he probably has Narcissistic Personality Disorder to boot haha! I don't think he'll last long but who knows.
Careful with making clinical diagnoses there, that's personal and I'm not sure if you're qualified to do so and it's also damning to those who legitimately suffer NPD....he may behave narcissisticly but that doesn't automatically mean he has NPD.
"Indeed, that's why it was solely expressed as my own personal conjecture - I'll settle for 'displays multiple narcissistic traits'. | |||
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"ok..lets bring this back to freedom of speech..I've made clear in my last posts on the other thread a few points. ok..lets read a newspaper..lets use the Sun,and lets use hillsborough as an example, which is quite a horrific piece of journalism- it caused outrage and effectively put a BRITISH city's inhabitants as the lowest of the low..the news spread fast didnt it?..ignoring the tragedy it was..a sensational story came out...which was a fucking pack of lies, only to which has been apologized for very recently. we also had many negative stories about blacks and gays(till it became more popular(sells more papers) to be either) these same exact tabloid systems are at it again, this time they have a great wagon based on race,culture,immigration and religion..which ultimately gets tied in with islamic terrorism. Freedom of the press...freedom to promote fear,intolerance,hatred,violence. yes, they'll get the odd story out that'll help validate the slightly twisted truth ones...then they'll just keep something rolling in the meantime... Of course, then there are televised lies....most recently? a couple of trumpee officials...talking about a massacre that never actually happened(while there was a truth in the story.....nobody was actually hurt nor killed!).....imagine people turning up to pay their respects to invisible non existent massacred dead people...awww, we better ban muslims... so yeah...I can become intolerant of some shit that comes outta peoples mouths if it is perpetuating hate. except this is 2017 you can see footage of pretty much every single event spoken about in the news of liveleak etc and see for ypurself what happend" like the 'massacre' that never actually happened...which I mentioned at the end  | |||
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" I've never seen you do anything but state an opinion - but you appear thoughtful and self-examining generally. As I say, I saw a lot of spite being aired after the referendum so maybe I tend to notice it more now. It's often very self-righteous and superior and I find it very distasteful. Fair enough. I have to say I find t'other side more distasteful and more worth my worry about fighting. Indeed, but it seems the masses are very concerned - I believe that's why they voted out of Europe and Trump into the White House. So maybe it's more of a problem than you realise. Eh? Your worry about PC vitriol is why Brexit and Trump happened? I think you've stepped from our disagreement into a mass generalisation to frame your point there. I think the point is there is a very large segment of society that is sick of being told that everything is thier fault, that theyre stupid, ignorant, racists, facist etc. These people however tend to be in the demographics that actually vote unlile the vocal student bases minority that attacks them. I agree there are large numbers of people fed up. I don't believe it's a result of political correctness gone mad. So I stand behind it being a leap." Watch the programme - that's where my interest in discussing further stemmed from, I believe his argument is correct. | |||
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" I've never seen you do anything but state an opinion - but you appear thoughtful and self-examining generally. As I say, I saw a lot of spite being aired after the referendum so maybe I tend to notice it more now. It's often very self-righteous and superior and I find it very distasteful. Fair enough. I have to say I find t'other side more distasteful and more worth my worry about fighting. Indeed, but it seems the masses are very concerned - I believe that's why they voted out of Europe and Trump into the White House. So maybe it's more of a problem than you realise. Eh? Your worry about PC vitriol is why Brexit and Trump happened? I think you've stepped from our disagreement into a mass generalisation to frame your point there. I think the point is there is a very large segment of society that is sick of being told that everything is thier fault, that theyre stupid, ignorant, racists, facist etc. These people however tend to be in the demographics that actually vote unlile the vocal student bases minority that attacks them. I agree there are large numbers of people fed up. I don't believe it's a result of political correctness gone mad. So I stand behind it being a leap. Watch the programme - that's where my interest in discussing further stemmed from, I believe his argument is correct." I will, thanks! I joined the thread as I have a real concern in diluting down calling out racism, sexism etc and it being diluted in the name of pc gone mad. Like the discussion around the issue of cultural appropriation earlier today. Anyway, I must away to bed! | |||
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"PC venom is no more acceptable than facist venom. But where is this 'PC venom'? People on a swinging forum being a bit rude to each other? Not exactly comparable to fascism, is it? Spite is spite. I heard a lot from my Guardian reading friends after the referendum, I was appalled at the depth of it expressed, yes. Far right voters, in my opinion, operate from a place of ignorance or self-service. The policies that their votes endorse I find personally affronting. Am I being spiteful? Or stating my opinion? I've never seen you do anything but state an opinion - but you appear thoughtful and self-examining generally. As I say, I saw a lot of spite being aired after the referendum so maybe I tend to notice it more now. It's often very self-righteous and superior and I find it very distasteful." Yet my experience was exactly the same but from the other, winning, side. You talked about being a Brexiter at the time. Can you not see, and accept, that the comments have been and continue to be vile and divisive from that side too? The additional racism I have experienced, personally, and witnessed is different now. Some people feel they have been given a mandate to be rude, abusive and racist now and ANY challenge to that is to call that liberal elite PC gone mad. As to the comments about another poster being tolerant, I don't see evidence of tolerance in racist, misogynistic and homophobic comments. | |||
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business as usual then | |||
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"PC venom is no more acceptable than facist venom. But where is this 'PC venom'? People on a swinging forum being a bit rude to each other? Not exactly comparable to fascism, is it? Spite is spite. I heard a lot from my Guardian reading friends after the referendum, I was appalled at the depth of it expressed, yes. Far right voters, in my opinion, operate from a place of ignorance or self-service. The policies that their votes endorse I find personally affronting. Am I being spiteful? Or stating my opinion? I've never seen you do anything but state an opinion - but you appear thoughtful and self-examining generally. As I say, I saw a lot of spite being aired after the referendum so maybe I tend to notice it more now. It's often very self-righteous and superior and I find it very distasteful. Yet my experience was exactly the same but from the other, winning, side. You talked about being a Brexiter at the time. Can you not see, and accept, that the comments have been and continue to be vile and divisive from that side too? The additional racism I have experienced, personally, and witnessed is different now. Some people feel they have been given a mandate to be rude, abusive and racist now and ANY challenge to that is to call that liberal elite PC gone mad. As to the comments about another poster being tolerant, I don't see evidence of tolerance in racist, misogynistic and homophobic comments." Wholeheartedly agree L. I'm not putting my biggest weight of concern on potentially offending a bigot when their actions/opinions/behaviours are abhorrent. Damn, I hope I offend such a person! | |||
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"i see people still have the ability to be knob heads to each other
business as usual then "Or make the dip in/out judgement post. Yep, same old. | |||
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" Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant?Yes it is, from liberals that wont tolerate other views. "Won't tolerate"? We still have free speech here - it is well within your rights to challenge views that you find objectionable, even if precious little snowflakes like you have a cry about it. Is calling shaggers 'a precious little snowflake' not insulting him? Intolerance? Bigotry? Not at all - if you'd been paying attentiion to the far right, you'd know that they are using the term "snowflake" to describe anybody who decides to stand up to their views. I'm merely piinting out that it is they who get mortaly offended when anybody challenges them. I don't think Shaggers does challenge the far right, or ever get offended though, so I don't see the relevance of the insult? No, shaggers is the far right. And yet he always appears tolerant and non-judgemental - bizarre huh! "You haven't read many of his posts then! Passive aggressive far right. | |||
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" Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant?Yes it is, from liberals that wont tolerate other views. "Won't tolerate"? We still have free speech here - it is well within your rights to challenge views that you find objectionable, even if precious little snowflakes like you have a cry about it. Is calling shaggers 'a precious little snowflake' not insulting him? Intolerance? Bigotry? Not at all - if you'd been paying attentiion to the far right, you'd know that they are using the term "snowflake" to describe anybody who decides to stand up to their views. I'm merely piinting out that it is they who get mortaly offended when anybody challenges them. I don't think Shaggers does challenge the far right, or ever get offended though, so I don't see the relevance of the insult? No, shaggers is the far right. And yet he always appears tolerant and non-judgemental - bizarre huh!
You haven't read many of his posts then!
Passive aggressive far right."
None so blind as those that cannot see....
Maybe read more of his posts...it will enlighten you more.
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" Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant?Yes it is, from liberals that wont tolerate other views. "Won't tolerate"? We still have free speech here - it is well within your rights to challenge views that you find objectionable, even if precious little snowflakes like you have a cry about it. Is calling shaggers 'a precious little snowflake' not insulting him? Intolerance? Bigotry? Not at all - if you'd been paying attentiion to the far right, you'd know that they are using the term "snowflake" to describe anybody who decides to stand up to their views. I'm merely piinting out that it is they who get mortaly offended when anybody challenges them. I don't think Shaggers does challenge the far right, or ever get offended though, so I don't see the relevance of the insult? No, shaggers is the far right. And yet he always appears tolerant and non-judgemental - bizarre huh!
You haven't read many of his posts then!
Passive aggressive far right."Oh I understand his views are pretty extreme on a number of subjects, and I disagree with him on many. But I have never seen him express any kind of aggression or intolerance towards anyone on here, on the contrary, he is extremely tolerant and never rises to the bait however much he is goaded by those with an axe to grind. I think a lot of people on here could learn from that. | |||
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"The mods must be a coffee break lol I think everyone is being very tolerant actually lol!
What are you offended by Shag?"No, but the mods will be busy as it is not allowed to be personal. I am being political tolerant  | |||
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"PC venom is no more acceptable than facist venom. But where is this 'PC venom'? People on a swinging forum being a bit rude to each other? Not exactly comparable to fascism, is it? Spite is spite. I heard a lot from my Guardian reading friends after the referendum, I was appalled at the depth of it expressed, yes. Far right voters, in my opinion, operate from a place of ignorance or self-service. The policies that their votes endorse I find personally affronting. Am I being spiteful? Or stating my opinion? I've never seen you do anything but state an opinion - but you appear thoughtful and self-examining generally. As I say, I saw a lot of spite being aired after the referendum so maybe I tend to notice it more now. It's often very self-righteous and superior and I find it very distasteful. Yet my experience was exactly the same but from the other, winning, side. You talked about being a Brexiter at the time. Can you not see, and accept, that the comments have been and continue to be vile and divisive from that side too? The additional racism I have experienced, personally, and witnessed is different now. Some people feel they have been given a mandate to be rude, abusive and racist now and ANY challenge to that is to call that liberal elite PC gone mad. As to the comments about another poster being tolerant, I don't see evidence of tolerance in racist, misogynistic and homophobic comments. Wholeheartedly agree L. I'm not putting my biggest weight of concern on potentially offending a bigot when their actions/opinions/behaviours are abhorrent. Damn, I hope I offend such a person! " Well I am sorry to hear you say that Estella, I don't think it's ever our best choice to be deliberately offensive, though there are plenty on Fab who would cut their nose off to spite their face it seems.  | |||
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. Boom boom. | |||
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"PC venom is no more acceptable than facist venom. But where is this 'PC venom'? People on a swinging forum being a bit rude to each other? Not exactly comparable to fascism, is it? Spite is spite. I heard a lot from my Guardian reading friends after the referendum, I was appalled at the depth of it expressed, yes. Far right voters, in my opinion, operate from a place of ignorance or self-service. The policies that their votes endorse I find personally affronting. Am I being spiteful? Or stating my opinion? I've never seen you do anything but state an opinion - but you appear thoughtful and self-examining generally. As I say, I saw a lot of spite being aired after the referendum so maybe I tend to notice it more now. It's often very self-righteous and superior and I find it very distasteful. Yet my experience was exactly the same but from the other, winning, side. You talked about being a Brexiter at the time. Can you not see, and accept, that the comments have been and continue to be vile and divisive from that side too? The additional racism I have experienced, personally, and witnessed is different now. Some people feel they have been given a mandate to be rude, abusive and racist now and ANY challenge to that is to call that liberal elite PC gone mad. " Well I am very sorry if that has happened to you. No, I haven't really seen any vile and divisive comments from brexiters, but them my social media is full of educated, middle class, normally kind and caring people, a lot of whom suddenly became vitriolic about other normally kind and caring people who simply disagreed with them on the subject of European bureaucracy or something. I expect no less from ignorant, uneducated racists - I expect a lot more from those who should know better. | |||
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" Personal insults are fine - . " They are not on the forum and your post didn't come across as pleasant when you called someone a precious snowflake as it did indeed look personal. | |||
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"Yeah I agree . What ever yer all said "Pacifist! | |||
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"PC venom is no more acceptable than facist venom. But where is this 'PC venom'? People on a swinging forum being a bit rude to each other? Not exactly comparable to fascism, is it? Spite is spite. I heard a lot from my Guardian reading friends after the referendum, I was appalled at the depth of it expressed, yes. Far right voters, in my opinion, operate from a place of ignorance or self-service. The policies that their votes endorse I find personally affronting. Am I being spiteful? Or stating my opinion? I've never seen you do anything but state an opinion - but you appear thoughtful and self-examining generally. As I say, I saw a lot of spite being aired after the referendum so maybe I tend to notice it more now. It's often very self-righteous and superior and I find it very distasteful. Yet my experience was exactly the same but from the other, winning, side. You talked about being a Brexiter at the time. Can you not see, and accept, that the comments have been and continue to be vile and divisive from that side too? The additional racism I have experienced, personally, and witnessed is different now. Some people feel they have been given a mandate to be rude, abusive and racist now and ANY challenge to that is to call that liberal elite PC gone mad. Well I am very sorry if that has happened to you. No, I haven't really seen any vile and divisive comments from brexiters, but them my social media is full of educated, middle class, normally kind and caring people, a lot of whom suddenly became vitriolic about other normally kind and caring people who simply disagreed with them on the subject of European bureaucracy or something. I expect no less from ignorant, uneducated racists - I expect a lot more from those who should know better." Just read any Brexit thread on Fab. The language people choose to use, and invent, frames the tone. You're already here so it's not asking you to search out views from extreme web feeds. | |||
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"PC venom is no more acceptable than facist venom. But where is this 'PC venom'? People on a swinging forum being a bit rude to each other? Not exactly comparable to fascism, is it? Spite is spite. I heard a lot from my Guardian reading friends after the referendum, I was appalled at the depth of it expressed, yes. Far right voters, in my opinion, operate from a place of ignorance or self-service. The policies that their votes endorse I find personally affronting. Am I being spiteful? Or stating my opinion? I've never seen you do anything but state an opinion - but you appear thoughtful and self-examining generally. As I say, I saw a lot of spite being aired after the referendum so maybe I tend to notice it more now. It's often very self-righteous and superior and I find it very distasteful. Yet my experience was exactly the same but from the other, winning, side. You talked about being a Brexiter at the time. Can you not see, and accept, that the comments have been and continue to be vile and divisive from that side too? The additional racism I have experienced, personally, and witnessed is different now. Some people feel they have been given a mandate to be rude, abusive and racist now and ANY challenge to that is to call that liberal elite PC gone mad. Well I am very sorry if that has happened to you. No, I haven't really seen any vile and divisive comments from brexiters, but them my social media is full of educated, middle class, normally kind and caring people, a lot of whom suddenly became vitriolic about other normally kind and caring people who simply disagreed with them on the subject of European bureaucracy or something. I expect no less from ignorant, uneducated racists - I expect a lot more from those who should know better. Just read any Brexit thread on Fab. The language people choose to use, and invent, frames the tone. You're already here so it's not asking you to search out views from extreme web feeds. " Oh I don't doubt it is so for a second! I'm just expressing my disappointment in 'my tribe'.  | |||
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"The mods must be a coffee break lol" In bed asleep probably as it was 1 oclock in the morning. Admin have not supplied us with a superdrug to keep us all awake for 24 hours yet | |||
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" Personal insults are fine - . They are not on the forum and your post didn't come across as pleasant when you called someone a precious snowflake as it did indeed look personal." "Snowflake" is a term coined by the alt-right to describe liberals, it has been used on here too, I was merely using their own language against them.... | |||
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" Personal insults are fine - . They are not on the forum and your post didn't come across as pleasant when you called someone a precious snowflake as it did indeed look personal. "Snowflake" is a term coined by the alt-right to describe liberals, it has been used on here too, I was merely using their own language against them...." I know what it is. The way your post was worded is the problem. Lets keep things civil as then the points are not lost. It has certainly been an interesting read | |||
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"I am a member of many forums, trade organisations , blogs , whatsapp groups and such like. Not all of them are sex related. One of the biggest groups I belong is 90% male , White working class with a couple of thousand members. Many of whom wouldn't consider themselves at all PC. But the levels of racism , sexism and misogyny on this forum would put any of the other groups I participate in to shame. The idea that we can forgive someone their extreme views because they express them in a ditzy kind of naive way I find worrying. " Forgive??? Is everyone who disagrees with you condemned by default then?? Who forgives those who lack forgiveness? | |||
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"I am a member of many forums, trade organisations , blogs , whatsapp groups and such like. Not all of them are sex related. One of the biggest groups I belong is 90% male , White working class with a couple of thousand members. Many of whom wouldn't consider themselves at all PC. But the levels of racism , sexism and misogyny on this forum would put any of the other groups I participate in to shame. The idea that we can forgive someone their extreme views because they express them in a ditzy kind of naive way I find worrying. Forgive??? Is everyone who disagrees with you condemned by default then?? Who forgives those who lack forgiveness?" No not everyone who disagrees with me is condemned. I am not that far up my own arse that I think my views are the only views. But if someone expresses a hateful point of view then yes I shall condem them and the level of forgiveness depends on whether they change their view. Saying sorry is easy enough but it means nothing if your views have spouted hate. People can form opinions out of ignorance and when educated they can change their mind. I'm not talking about views such as labour V conservative, Brexit V Remain. I understand that not all labour supporters are anti Semitic or all brexiteers are racist. But if someone spouts race hate , sexist or misogynistic views then unless they change then they are not forgiven. This isn't a different opinion or a disagreement this is hate speech | |||
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" Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant?Yes it is, from liberals that wont tolerate other views." surely every decent person should be intolerant to the extreme views of some in society.. the racist's, homophobic and misogynists etc.. such views are reprehensible and go against the norms of what is civilised.. i am happy to be intolerant of such views as equally i am happy to be intolerant of people torturing kittens and puppies for fun.. i am equally intolerant of paedophilia.. it, 'PC gone mad' has become the cloak of acceptance for those who seek to divide, bully and generally treat others who are different to them less equally and yet who when they are treated less equal howl to the rooftops.. such people lack the decency and common sense to accept that we are here for such a short time and to just get on with other's, they also lack the sense to not be complete and offensive fools.. | |||
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"mitic or all brexiteers are racist. But if someone spouts race hate , sexist or misogynistic views then unless they change then they are not forgiven. This isn't a different opinion or a disagreement this is hate speech " Well you must be very busy, fab is full of all three and many other expressions of hatred. My belief is it is not your brief to condemn or forgive anyone expressing their views on a sex site, however repugnant you find them. Challenge them by all means, but unless someone has wronged you personally they do not need to seek your forgiveness anyway. | |||
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" it, 'PC gone mad' has become the cloak of acceptance for those who seek to divide, bully and generally treat others who are different to them less equally and yet who when they are treated less equal howl to the rooftops.. such people lack the decency and common sense to accept that we are here for such a short time and to just get on with other's, they also lack the sense to not be complete and offensive fools.." It's funny, from these paragraphs I cannot tell if you support Trever's point or not - your comments apply to both sides? | |||
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"mitic or all brexiteers are racist. But if someone spouts race hate , sexist or misogynistic views then unless they change then they are not forgiven. This isn't a different opinion or a disagreement this is hate speech Well you must be very busy, fab is full of all three and many other expressions of hatred. My belief is it is not your brief to condemn or forgive anyone expressing their views on a sex site, however repugnant you find them. Challenge them by all means, but unless someone has wronged you personally they do not need to seek your forgiveness anyway." So your belief is we should ignore hate speech ? | |||
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" The idea that we can forgive someone their extreme views because they express them in a ditzy kind of naive way I find worrying. " Yes indeed. It's important not to prioritise politeness and ostensible 'niceness' over the facts regarding what is being discussed. The way social injustice has been overcome in the past has rarely been through people being polite. | |||
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"mitic or all brexiteers are racist. But if someone spouts race hate , sexist or misogynistic views then unless they change then they are not forgiven. This isn't a different opinion or a disagreement this is hate speech Well you must be very busy, fab is full of all three and many other expressions of hatred. My belief is it is not your brief to condemn or forgive anyone expressing their views on a sex site, however repugnant you find them. Challenge them by all means, but unless someone has wronged you personally they do not need to seek your forgiveness anyway." And I am not asking anyone to seek forgiveness nor do I have the power to forgive anyone. To say I won't forgive is a figure of speech , it simply means I won't tolerate it. | |||
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" it, 'PC gone mad' has become the cloak of acceptance for those who seek to divide, bully and generally treat others who are different to them less equally and yet who when they are treated less equal howl to the rooftops.. such people lack the decency and common sense to accept that we are here for such a short time and to just get on with other's, they also lack the sense to not be complete and offensive fools.. It's funny, from these paragraphs I cannot tell if you support Trever's point or not - your comments apply to both sides?" What was his point, i never saw the programme..? i don't think with any level of engagement, education that we will ever change some peoples views and in some ways that's a bit of a frightening thought that we should.. but given that some have those views we then need to legislate as a society to stop anarchy taking place and if that works to a point and accept no system is perfect then that will suffice.. bit like having legislation for the roads to stop carnage etc.. used to manage a couple of guys with racist views in what was a multi cultural public service in London, can't stop what they think but basically told them that they either left it at the door of the workplace then fine.. just about being professional and getting the job done.. | |||
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" The idea that we can forgive someone their extreme views because they express them in a ditzy kind of naive way I find worrying. Yes indeed. It's important not to prioritise politeness and ostensible 'niceness' over the facts regarding what is being discussed. The way social injustice has been overcome in the past has rarely been through people being polite. " Well said | |||
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"mitic or all brexiteers are racist. But if someone spouts race hate , sexist or misogynistic views then unless they change then they are not forgiven. This isn't a different opinion or a disagreement this is hate speech Well you must be very busy, fab is full of all three and many other expressions of hatred. My belief is it is not your brief to condemn or forgive anyone expressing their views on a sex site, however repugnant you find them. Challenge them by all means, but unless someone has wronged you personally they do not need to seek your forgiveness anyway. So your belief is we should ignore hate speech ?" No - the reason for my putting up the thread is my shock at the 'hate speech' of the liberal left elite. How does the saying go - 'Take the plank out of your own eye then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brothers'. I am not condoning the far right, it is not a childrens 'tit for tat' debate. I am saying that some of those who would claim PC on the surface are anything but at heart, and maybe, as Trevor suggest, their attitude is in fact EMPOWERING the far right agenda. | |||
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""political correctness noun the avoidance of forms of expression or action that are perceived to exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against." So is it politically correct to insult, exclude or try to marginalize those who do not agree with political correctness?? Is this not just the pot calling the kettle black - and often stemming from an attitude of intellectual superiority? Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant?" PC is intellectual heresy. You need an open mind, a sense of humour and the decorum not to wilfully hurt people. . I'm against what is called PC because it tries to drown out debate with perceived offense | |||
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"I am a member of many forums, trade organisations , blogs , whatsapp groups and such like. Not all of them are sex related. One of the biggest groups I belong is 90% male , White working class with a couple of thousand members. Many of whom wouldn't consider themselves at all PC. But the levels of racism , sexism and misogyny on this forum would put any of the other groups I participate in to shame. The idea that we can forgive someone their extreme views because they express them in a ditzy kind of naive way I find worrying. They may not personally attack anyone on here but by holding and expressing those views they are doing far more damage than by simply calling someone a cunt. " | |||
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" The idea that we can forgive someone their extreme views because they express them in a ditzy kind of naive way I find worrying. Yes indeed. It's important not to prioritise politeness and ostensible 'niceness' over the facts regarding what is being discussed. The way social injustice has been overcome in the past has rarely been through people being polite. " Indeed, I just don't believe the end always justifies the means, and that many wrongs can be done in the name of a righteous cause. | |||
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""political correctness noun the avoidance of forms of expression or action that are perceived to exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against." So is it politically correct to insult, exclude or try to marginalize those who do not agree with political correctness?? Is this not just the pot calling the kettle black - and often stemming from an attitude of intellectual superiority? Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant? No. It's just that people are less afraid to challenge bigots. The irony being these people are far more bigoted, facist and violent than the people they "challenge" Am I? Do you actually know what a fascist is? I dont know are you? Id say facist is denying people the right to speak or debate thier views. I'd say facist is using violence to oppress those you disagree with from speaking. I'd say facist is the idiots in black bloc who dont quite realise thier a simple outfit change away from the brown shirts. Do you know what a facist is? So basically, you agree with me? I've never tried to deny that people should have free speech, I have only ever pointed out that I have the samr eight and will challenge their view when I hear it. Right but thats not how a very large portion of people are acting is it? They are banning people from speaking at universities They arw commingg crimes, violence and assults against them when they do speak at univeristies etc. Are you out standing against these violent people or is it ok as theyre on your side" They don't even see the irony in their behaviour | |||
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""political correctness noun the avoidance of forms of expression or action that are perceived to exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against." So is it politically correct to insult, exclude or try to marginalize those who do not agree with political correctness?? Is this not just the pot calling the kettle black - and often stemming from an attitude of intellectual superiority? Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant? PC is intellectual heresy. You need an open mind, a sense of humour and the decorum not to wilfully hurt people. . I'm against what is called PC because it tries to drown out debate with perceived offense " Yes, I do believe it has become that, in part. I am always more concerned about the spirit in which something is said than the actual words - which can be deceptive. | |||
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"The femininist Julie Bindel. George galloway, was also banned" Bindel is a self serving, transphobic bigot. I loathe the woman. Though do agree she should have been allowed to speak. We live in scary times where the far right are gaining more strength across the free world (Austria far right almost got in, France hangs in the balance...). The overtly PC brigade is resistance to that. | |||
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" it, 'PC gone mad' has become the cloak of acceptance for those who seek to divide, bully and generally treat others who are different to them less equally and yet who when they are treated less equal howl to the rooftops.. such people lack the decency and common sense to accept that we are here for such a short time and to just get on with other's, they also lack the sense to not be complete and offensive fools.. It's funny, from these paragraphs I cannot tell if you support Trever's point or not - your comments apply to both sides? What was his point, i never saw the programme..? " "Trevor Phillips argues that liberalism and a fear of offending minorities are stifling legitimate debate and have laid the ground for Brexit and the rise of populist leaders like Farage and Trump" It's well worth watching: http://www.channel4.com/programmes/has-political-correctness-gone-mad/on-demand/62378-001 | |||
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" The idea that we can forgive someone their extreme views because they express them in a ditzy kind of naive way I find worrying. Yes indeed. It's important not to prioritise politeness and ostensible 'niceness' over the facts regarding what is being discussed. The way social injustice has been overcome in the past has rarely been through people being polite. Indeed, I just don't believe the end always justifies the means, and that many wrongs can be done in the name of a righteous cause." so what do you suggest happens? I'm curious to know You're trying to stifle people's right to be angry and pissed off with how messed up the world is. If someone is against the very best of the epitom of what humanity is and only believes in segregation, intolerance and hate, tell me how I'm supposed to behave when they don't listen to anything and only believe the lies fed to them over and over? the root of your post seems to me is that you're happy to sit back and let the bastards who want to tear apart this world until we're at war. trading insults I'd say is the very least of your worries and there is no elite when it comes to wanting the best for your fellow humans, how can there be? there's no elite for wanting to see others live as they deserve to live! There's no libetal elite wanting to throw innocent people to their death. my heart and mind is geared towards being a good person who will stand up to the destructive views held by racist, close minded individuals. I'll be mouthy as I see fit for my cause is personal! it's personal every single day for so many people. I intend to make it personal whenever the opportunity arises. | |||
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" Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant?Yes it is, from liberals that wont tolerate other views. "Won't tolerate"? We still have free speech here - it is well within your rights to challenge views that you find objectionable, even if precious little snowflakes like you have a cry about it. Is calling shaggers 'a precious little snowflake' not insulting him? Intolerance? Bigotry?That is right you will alwais get intolerant people like that. I tolerate you, It doesn't mean that I don't think you are a bit pathetic. Why the need to insult someone who has done nothing against you? Where does that bile come from? I don't like the far right, shaggers included. Maybe it would be more politically correct to disagree with his views without despising or insulting the holder of them??" As regards free speech it should work both ways.. As I believe Voltaire once said: "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." I'm fed up to the back teeth of people (On both sides of the political spectrum) who seem to believe that only their beliefs or opinions have the right to be heard! I have no room or time for bigotry or prejudices of any kind and I have no problem with the rebuttal of them. But I also believe that people are entitled to their beliefs and opinions. the loss of anyone's right to free speech is the start of a slippery slope to a non democratic society...and just think for a moment what that means. Do any of us wish to live in a totalitarian society? | |||
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" Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant?Yes it is, from liberals that wont tolerate other views. "Won't tolerate"? We still have free speech here - it is well within your rights to challenge views that you find objectionable, even if precious little snowflakes like you have a cry about it. Is calling shaggers 'a precious little snowflake' not insulting him? Intolerance? Bigotry?That is right you will alwais get intolerant people like that. I tolerate you, It doesn't mean that I don't think you are a bit pathetic. Why the need to insult someone who has done nothing against you? Where does that bile come from? I don't like the far right, shaggers included. Maybe it would be more politically correct to disagree with his views without despising or insulting the holder of them?? As regards free speech it should work both ways.. As I believe Voltaire once said: "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." I'm fed up to the back teeth of people (On both sides of the political spectrum) who seem to believe that only their beliefs or opinions have the right to be heard! I have no room or time for bigotry or prejudices of any kind and I have no problem with the rebuttal of them. But I also believe that people are entitled to their beliefs and opinions. the loss of anyone's right to free speech is the start of a slippery slope to a non democratic society...and just think for a moment what that means. Do any of us wish to live in a totalitarian society?" | |||
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""political correctness noun the avoidance of forms of expression or action that are perceived to exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against." So is it politically correct to insult, exclude or try to marginalize those who do not agree with political correctness?? Is this not just the pot calling the kettle black - and often stemming from an attitude of intellectual superiority? Is political correctness in fact itself now fostering a new breed of intolerant? No. It's just that people are less afraid to challenge bigots. " | |||
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"The femininist Julie Bindel. George galloway, was also banned Bindel is a self serving, transphobic bigot. I loathe the woman. Though do agree she should have been allowed to speak. We live in scary times where the far right are gaining more strength across the free world (Austria far right almost got in, France hangs in the balance...). The overtly PC brigade is resistance to that. " | |||
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" The idea that we can forgive someone their extreme views because they express them in a ditzy kind of naive way I find worrying. Yes indeed. It's important not to prioritise politeness and ostensible 'niceness' over the facts regarding what is being discussed. The way social injustice has been overcome in the past has rarely been through people being polite. Indeed, I just don't believe the end always justifies the means, and that many wrongs can be done in the name of a righteous cause. so what do you suggest happens? I'm curious to know You're trying to stifle people's right to be angry and pissed off with how messed up the world is. If someone is against the very best of the epitom of what humanity is and only believes in segregation, intolerance and hate, tell me how I'm supposed to behave when they don't listen to anything and only believe the lies fed to them over and over? the root of your post seems to me is that you're happy to sit back and let the bastards who want to tear apart this world until we're at war. trading insults I'd say is the very least of your worries and there is no elite when it comes to wanting the best for your fellow humans, how can there be? there's no elite for wanting to see others live as they deserve to live! There's no libetal elite wanting to throw innocent people to their death. my heart and mind is geared towards being a good person who will stand up to the destructive views held by racist, close minded individuals. I'll be mouthy as I see fit for my cause is personal! it's personal every single day for so many people. I intend to make it personal whenever the opportunity arises. " Well, I believe you are deeply misguided in that and as the TV programme I think demonstrated, such an attitude may have unwittingly advanced the very agenda you seek to oppose. I believe those who see it as their brief to oppose hatred, bigotry and oppression need to do it without hatred, bigotry and oppression! | |||
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