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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Plans are afoot to remake The Dam Busters, but an important part of historical fact is to be changed to accommodate today's sensitivities.
This thread is intended for discussion about whether the film should be remade at all if it means changing history to do it.
Let me explain.
Guy Gibson was the Commander of RAF 617 Squadron and he had a black labrador that he named 'Nigger'. (I'll only use that word once, as I don't wish to offend anyone but I feel it's an important part of the story).
The name of the dog means 'black' in Latin and Gibson named it that with no malice intended towards any other race. Typically, RAF flyers were recruited from the middle classes and most were private school educated and versed in Latin, the Arts etc. so his use of the word is easily explained.
My point is this:
An old black and white film exists - The Dam Busters, surprisingly, which features the dog - it died during the actual operation -, and it's name is used as a codeword for confirmation that the dams had been breached - and that makes it an integral part of historical wartime fact.
Should today's filmmakers, who only want to cash in on the story with a remake, be permitted to change the dog's name, and consequently change the codeword used to confirm the dam breaches, or should the original b&w film be left to stand alone in telling the story of a very important part of history.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Good question!
If it's an American film, I think they should be compelled to stick with the dog's original name (over-moralistic Yanks make me want to spit! And they think THEY won the flipping war!).
But if it's a British film, I would accept the film-maker's decision on whether to change the dog's name or not - at the end of the day, films have to make money, so I guess it's a decision for the producer. |
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By *ENGUYMan
over a year ago
Hull |
"If they want to make a "fact" based film then all references should remain in tact...
this it should remain as the original"
The scriptwriter is none other than Stephen Fry, who has changed the name so as not to offend the Americans, for which market the film will be distributed, amongst others.
Yet, as the report in my daily newspaper has shown, many visitors to an RAF museum, linked to the original story, have not found any offence with the dog's name; it has been accepted as an intrinsic part of the overall story and no offence has been taken.
It is just Political Correctness gone mad! |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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I think Fry knows a demographic section of society won't go and see the film if it contains that word and that will reduce the film's box office takings and almost guarantee it'll never make a short list for any oscar.
His proposal isn't about racism, it's about potential plaudits as a film maker and future box office takings.
He knows the film will bomb if it sticks to the original storyline. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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What does it matter if they change it. Neither the old or the new film are historically 100% accurate as its just not possible. What does it matter if they change the dogs name. There will be at least 100 plus other inaccuracys as well. Half the actors won't look like the real people for a start! |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"What does it matter if they change it. Neither the old or the new film are historically 100% accurate as its just not possible. What does it matter if they change the dogs name. There will be at least 100 plus other inaccuracys as well. Half the actors won't look like the real people for a start! "
Shall we rename the RAF to just the Air Force in case any anti-royalists take umbrage. After all, none of the WW2 pilots are alive now so what does it matter eh? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Why not just re-name the old pooch (and the codeword) "black", thus ensuring some degree of accuracy.
I'm guessing this film isn't actually a documentary so I can't see it ruining the story.
What happens in it anyway? |
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"Plans are afoot to remake The Dam Busters, but an important part of historical fact is to be changed to accommodate today's sensitivities.
This thread is intended for discussion about whether the film should be remade at all if it means changing history to do it.
Let me explain.
Guy Gibson was the Commander of RAF 617 Squadron and he had a black labrador that he named 'Nigger'. (I'll only use that word once, as I don't wish to offend anyone but I feel it's an important part of the story).
The name of the dog means 'black' in Latin and Gibson named it that with no malice intended towards any other race. Typically, RAF flyers were recruited from the middle classes and most were private school educated and versed in Latin, the Arts etc. so his use of the word is easily explained.
My point is this:
An old black and white film exists - The Dam Busters, surprisingly, which features the dog - it died during the actual operation -, and it's name is used as a codeword for confirmation that the dams had been breached - and that makes it an integral part of historical wartime fact.
Should today's filmmakers, who only want to cash in on the story with a remake, be permitted to change the dog's name, and consequently change the codeword used to confirm the dam breaches, or should the original b&w film be left to stand alone in telling the story of a very important part of history.
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Poetic licence is used all the time, often pointlessly I'm afraid. One of these pilots used to be a neighbour and friend. Anything that celebrates what they did and reaches another generation must be a good thing surely. The rest is just pedantics.
Mistress x |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
It's a film, not a historical documentary.
It's entertainment.
But it'd go down like a lead balloon if teens of millions of people around the world took offence.
So I've no problem changing the name.
I mean, take films set in the medieval era or whatever.
They don't replicate the language in use then. They adapt today's language.
It's the same with this, only a little more recent.
Language evolves. |
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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago
Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum |
I agree that they should keep it as close to the original as possible. However, 'nigger' is not latin for black (it's 'niger'), and at the time the dog was named was a derogatory word for black people. I really think that using a word that can be upsetting is not 'freedom of speech' and not using it is not 'PC gone mad'. It's just being a good human.
Time to leave the bad old days behind us and celebrate the fact we are more evolved than we were back then. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I'm sure lots of the facts were changed for the original film, after all it's a film hence it's dramatised so changing the name of the dog doesn't make a heap if difference to me |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I think people are worried that remaking the dam busters film will try and rewrite history like the U-571 film and even Tony Blair called it an affront to British sailors.
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Theres far too much politically correct crap these days it should be left as it was. It wouldnt surprise me if when the film was made it was a usaaf squadron that did the raid whilst the british watched. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"thay should leave the film well alone there is no need for a new film the b and w tells the story "
And the black and white war films are the best anyway 
I went to 2 Polish cencentration camps and took photos in colour and black and white - the black and white ones were the best by a country mile - they truly conveyed the horror of these places
So all hail monochrome movies and pictures |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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That's the crux of the matter, the original tells the full story of the raid, the pilots, the aircraft, the lives of all who were involved. What can possibly be gained from a remake apart from full glorious colour, louder explosions, probably a shit load more water... and lots of luverly dosh for the film studio. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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From the web
"Stephen Fry’s updated version of The Dam Busters is to be called The Darn Ladybumpers so as not to offend the under-eights.
“There was a feeling that the word Dam was too near Damn for the movie’s younger fans,” said the 53-year-old TV presenter and scriptwriter of the new movie.
“And to refer to a bust, would be too graphic. We prefer Lady Bumps, much more palatable for a junior audience.”
The move follows Fry’s decision to change the real name of the RAF dog involved in the mission from Nigger amid fears it would offend an American audience.
Other changes to his version of the heroic World War Two attack have already upset veterans.
In the real bombing raid by the British 617 squadron on three dams along the Ruhr valley, 53 men died and three were captured by the Germans. In Twitter fan Fry’s version, no-one dies, no-one is hurt and nothing is destroyed.
“I didn’t want to upset anyone with death and destruction,” said Fry, “So we’ve toned it down for the audience.”
“Rather than a squadron of intimidating Lancaster bombers dropping bombs on dams, we’ve opted for a team of British Army unicyclists lobbing flour bags and eggs at the Germans.
“In our version the Germans bash the flour and eggs back with oversized tennis racquets.
“Everyone gets covered and has a big laugh; the Second World War is declared a draw and we finish on a song. Something upbeat. Like Somewhere over the Rainbow.
“We also don’t refer to the conflict as a war. We call it the Second World Brouhaha.”
The family of RAF hero Guy Gibson, whose dog was called Nigger, are said to be upset at the name change decision. In Fry’s version the dog is called Fanny Batter"
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Joking aside, I'm profoundly disappointed that Stephen Fry is in any way involved with this travesty of history. I really expected much better of him.  "
Snap
I really thought he would have fought tooth and nail for a more realistic approach  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Joking aside, I'm profoundly disappointed that Stephen Fry is in any way involved with this travesty of history. I really expected much better of him. "
In what way shape or form is this going to be a travesty? Nothing I've read about the film suggests that will be the case. For God's sake, they've hired the last surviving pilot from the raid as an advisor. |
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