FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Maddie McCann: parents involved?

Maddie McCann: parents involved?

By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Was just watching a programme about her disappearance. They still seem to cast doubt on whether the parents were to blame.

I think they made a very poor decision to leave their three children alone for which they will never forgive themselves. I think someone was watching and took their opportunity to kidnap her. I don't think she's alive Now.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Was just watching a programme about her disappearance. They still seem to cast doubt on whether the parents were to blame.

I agree

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I started a thread about this a while back

I don't think they were involved

But I do think they should be stripped of their wealth

And jailed

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I started a thread about this a while back

I don't think they were involved

But I do think they should be stripped of their wealth

And jailed "

Jailed because they left the children alone ?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I started a thread about this a while back

I don't think they were involved

But I do think they should be stripped of their wealth

And jailed

Jailed because they left the children alone ?"

I always thought they should go down for fraud

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I started a thread about this a while back

I don't think they were involved

But I do think they should be stripped of their wealth

And jailed

Jailed because they left the children alone ?"

Can you be jailed for intentional child endangerment?

If not. That should be a law.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Always wondered how the media would have dealt with it if they hadn't been a professional couple

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Always wondered how the media would have dealt with it if they hadn't been a professional couple

Probably very differently.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Always wondered how the media would have dealt with it if they hadn't been a professional couple

Exactly!

Children go missing every day and no one gives a fuck!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I'll put my faith in the combined findings of the police and judicial process until if ever, substantive evidence proves otherwise rather than say stupid stuff now based on emotive conjecture .....

In the mean time I will continue too hope for a resolve which reunites a family and puts an end to speculation ....

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I'll put my faith in the combined findings of the police and judicial process until if ever, substantive evidence proves otherwise rather than say stupid stuff now based on emotive conjecture .....

In the mean time I will continue too hope for a resolve which reunites a family and puts an end to speculation ....

Did someone say "stupid stuff"??

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I think the parents know more than they let on and they should have been charged with neglect

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By *dam1971Man over a year ago

Bedford

You can't jail someone for letting your child out of your sight for long enough to be kidnapped.

How many of us here went out on a Saturday as kids, with our mates to the park, on bikes, off exploring? Or did our parents tag along just in case?

And how long should that be for, until they are 18? Or does kidnapping a 14 year old not count, maybe, so we only need to be with them until they are 13.

What happened is very sad and I would hate to have to live with it, but our parents would have done us in years ago if they could never leave our side

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By *ysnomiaMan over a year ago

Preston

"I'll put my faith in the combined findings of the police and judicial process until if ever, substantive evidence proves otherwise rather than say stupid stuff now based on emotive conjecture ...."

I'm down with this bit.

However, I cant see the daughter turning up, ever.

And just from what Ive heard there is a fair bit of speculation that the 'charity' set up to find her may not have been used in an entirely apropriate way.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I'll put my faith in the combined findings of the police and judicial process until if ever, substantive evidence proves otherwise rather than say stupid stuff now based on emotive conjecture .....

In the mean time I will continue too hope for a resolve which reunites a family and puts an end to speculation ....

Did someone say "stupid stuff"??

My post clearly explained it was my intention not too say stupid stuff......

What others do is entirely up-to them..

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Was just watching a programme about her disappearance. They still seem to cast doubt on whether the parents were to blame.

I think you're right on this and I really don't understand why so many conspiracy theories still abound. Perhaps it's because parents can't get their heads round the fact something so terrible could happen as the result of a stupid mistake, so they need to paint the McCanns as evil or sinister.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Always wondered how the media would have dealt with it if they hadn't been a professional couple

Probably very differently."

I think they'd have got a lot more sympathy than they did.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I remember watching it all unfold on tv. My gut feeling always told me the mother knew more or had done something.

We will never know. Another one of those unfortunate events.

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By *onny MCMan over a year ago

Crawley

It's their twins I feel sorry for. They've grown up with their parents pouring so much time and focus onto a sibling they've never met and almost certainly never will. That's gotta fuck with you a little bit.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Always wondered how the media would have dealt with it if they hadn't been a professional couple

This exactly! I personally don't know anyone who would leave 3 children alone to go off and have a meal with friends....that's neglect pure and simple....if this had happened to a family on benefits and in this country then I think social services would have had some involvement with the twins but nope they're professionals

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By *inkerbell67Woman over a year ago

Clacton on sea essex

The parents never showed no emotions at all ,talk about cold ive friends in the force and the think they are guilty as hell..

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By *ophieslutTV/TS over a year ago

Central

I have no clue, as the media has manipulated everything that I know. But the parents were highly negligent and should have faced some charges, in all probability.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I honestly think that the parents had more to do with this than they let on, and they have to live with that for the rest of their lives.

The cadaver dogs reactions to the apartment and the car. Also the fact that it has been reported that they replaced a fridge freezer in the apartment.

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By *urvymamaWoman over a year ago

Doncaster

The parents made a poor decision they're now facing the consequences. Because of that poor decision they are responsible for what happened.

No way would I fuck off out anywhere leaving my kids alone even if sleeping in this country let alone a foreign one, you can't say the played no part in her disappearance when they made a shitty choice like that

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The parents never showed no emotions at all ,talk about cold ive friends in the force and the think they are guilty as hell.."

I don't think that not weeping and crying all over daytime tv equates to cold or, for that matter, guilty. Me, and most of my family, aren't cryers, and I could imagine if something dreadful had ever happened to me my mother probably would have been similarly hung out to dry by public opinion for not displaying the appropriate level of wailing.

When I see the footage of the parents back they look crushed and devastated to me - you can see it in their eyes.

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By *urvymamaWoman over a year ago

Doncaster

"I honestly think that the parents had more to do with this than they let on, and they have to live with that for the rest of their lives.

The cadaver dogs reactions to the apartment and the car. Also the fact that it has been reported that they replaced a fridge freezer in the apartment.

They admitted to giving them sleeping medication as well

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

What the whole case shows us how the media treat treat people from different backgrounds differently; can you imagine how the McCanns would have been treated in the media were they not Doctors

Personally I don't think they were involved however in leaving their children alone and under the influence of sedatives they are responsible for her disappearance. Will jailing them bring justice? Possibly, but it will also damage their other children whose lives are already damaged

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By *orkie321bWoman over a year ago

Nottingham

"Always wondered how the media would have dealt with it if they hadn't been a professional couple

The fact that the parents are both respectable doctors made a big difference. If they had been ordinary working class parents they would have been pulled to pieces by the media for leaving the children alone.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Always wondered how the media would have dealt with it if they hadn't been a professional couple

My point exactly

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Always wondered how the media would have dealt with it if they hadn't been a professional couple

And the McCanns haven't been pulled to pieces at all?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I just hope the truth comes out one day.

H x

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By *urvymamaWoman over a year ago

Doncaster

"Always wondered how the media would have dealt with it if they hadn't been a professional couple

And the McCanns haven't been pulled to pieces at all? "

Not to the degree that a family on benefits doing the same thing would have been

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By *mmmMaybeCouple over a year ago

West Wales

Their actions both at the time of disapearance and later with the charity that isn't, a book deal, resignation of a relative running said non charity etc. All stink.

But just because they may be hard looking, uncaring, money grabbing barstewards does not mean they did it.

But they should at least been charged with three counts of child abuse & neglect.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Always wondered how the media would have dealt with it if they hadn't been a professional couple

And the McCanns haven't been pulled to pieces at all? "

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By *r havin a laughMan over a year ago

Innerleithen

This has to go down as one of the most controversial cases and has split opinion throughout the country. I would guess that the police would have secretly bugged the McCann's home/telephone(ala Stephen Laurence suspects) to see if they could shed any light on the matter. This means if they are guilty of the crime I'm sure they would have discussed it in the privacy of their own home between each other. Mi5/soco would have been instructed to put resources into this high profile case. The only thing I would say is your innocent till proven guilty,and we (however judgemental) have to give them the benefit of doubt.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Their actions both at the time of disapearance and later with the charity that isn't, a book deal, resignation of a relative running said non charity etc. All stink.

But just because they may be hard looking, uncaring, money grabbing barstewards does not mean they did it.

But they should at least been charged with three counts of child abuse & neglect.

I agree with this.

And however much i dissaprove of them and what they did (because i do!), they are the ones who have to live with the consequences of what happened, and i'm sure that it haunts them more than any bunch of finger pointing tabloids headlines ever will.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It was a set up to get thier name out. I recon she is in a safe house and they knew who took her.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Always wondered how the media would have dealt with it if they hadn't been a professional couple

And the McCanns haven't been pulled to pieces at all?

Not to the degree that a family on benefits doing the same thing would have been "

I'd say more so

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By *entle giraffeMan over a year ago

Minehead

"Was just watching a programme about her disappearance. They still seem to cast doubt on whether the parents were to blame.

Hey

what was the stupid mistake?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Always wondered how the media would have dealt with it if they hadn't been a professional couple

And the McCanns haven't been pulled to pieces at all?

Not to the degree that a family on benefits doing the same thing would have been "

The only difference is the McCanns fought back.

It is sad to see emotive reactions rather than fact being used to once again condem them. If what they did was a "crime" half the parents in Britain would be in prison.

Sadly I don't think Madeleine survived for long after the event as the risk was far to high for the kidnappers.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If they were involved the evidence would've been there to prosecute

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By *anejohnkent6263Couple over a year ago

canterbury

why take the drugs on holiday ....why was bottom of 3 piece suit cut...why hire car day after...why cant u remember where u drove....why did death dog activate in the hire car....why will they not tack lie detector test.......guilty as sin and made mugs of us all....

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I started a thread about this a while back

I don't think they were involved

But I do think they should be stripped of their wealth

And jailed

Jailed because they left the children alone ?

Can you be jailed for intentional child endangerment?

If not. That should be a law. "

Well youve added the word intentional.

So now you have to prove beyond all reasonable doubt that they intended to put thier child in danger

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"You can't jail someone for letting your child out of your sight for long enough to be kidnapped.

How many of us here went out on a Saturday as kids, with our mates to the park, on bikes, off exploring? Or did our parents tag along just in case?

And how long should that be for, until they are 18? Or does kidnapping a 14 year old not count, maybe, so we only need to be with them until they are 13.

What happened is very sad and I would hate to have to live with it, but our parents would have done us in years ago if they could never leave our side "

She was 3 !!!! Very different to a teenager.

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By *ouble CCouple over a year ago

Gran Canaria

"Always wondered how the media would have dealt with it if they hadn't been a professional couple

I agree to a degree. Look at Shannon Matthews, her mum was jailed and vilified, and quite rightly so but the out pouring if support that community and the press showed b4 we knew what was going on was incredible! The McCanns are middle/ upper class professional people and almost straight away the press were saying 'Oh the mother is so cold. No feelings. Posh cold fish' etc etc. Must be hiding something.

Not saying that what they did was right, not at all, I think they SHOULD have been arrested for neglect but that is something they have to live with for the rest of their lives. Miss C. Xx

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It's their twins I feel sorry for. They've grown up with their parents pouring so much time and focus onto a sibling they've never met and almost certainly never will. That's gotta fuck with you a little bit. "

The twins did meet Maddie. They were in the same room when she vanished.

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By *anejohnkent6263Couple over a year ago

canterbury

funny how they only took the child who was a bad sleeper and they used to slip drugs toooooo....if most people done this shit would hit fan ...

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By *ouble CCouple over a year ago

Gran Canaria

"I just hope the truth comes out one day.

H x"

Me too. At the end of the day, a child has gone missing and no matter who, what, where, and why Maddie must be remembered and her case be in the public eye so we can move towards a conclusion. Miss C. Xx

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By *onny MCMan over a year ago

Crawley

The twins did meet Maddie. They were in the same room when she vanished."

Yeah, but at 18 months old, it's not like they'll really remember her, is it?

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By *opsy RogersWoman over a year ago

London

"Always wondered how the media would have dealt with it if they hadn't been a professional couple

Probably very differently."

Can you imagine if parents from Safforn Lane/New Parks/Braunstone had done this?

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

It is sad to see emotive reactions rather than fact being used to once again condem them. If what they did was a "crime" half the parents in Britain would be in prison.

. "

That is a very worrying thought that half of parents would leave their children alone the way they were left. In fact, any parents who would do this is worrying.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It is sad to see emotive reactions rather than fact being used to once again condem them. If what they did was a "crime" half the parents in Britain would be in prison.

That is a very worrying thought that half of parents would leave their children alone the way they were left. In fact, any parents who would do this is worrying."

Half the parents in Britain would do the same thing....

...really??

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If you read the official Portuguese police files (I have) - which have been translated in their entirety and are available to read online - the evidence against the parents concealing Maddie's body is overwhelming. These are not theories, conjecture and heresay but documented inter_iews, forensic evidence and witness statements.

One thing there is absolutely no evidence of is that she was abducted.

The only reason that nobody publicly speaks out either for or against the McCanns is because of all the super-injunctions they have in place - friends, family, neighbours, colleagues, none of them can even be inter_iewed because the press can't publish anything.

Parents of missing children don't let the police and locals search while they carry on their holiday as if nothing as happened, don't laugh and smile a few days later, don't refuse to answer any police questions, don't set up a limited company within days to pay their mortgage and sue people, don't hire a top PR agent and extradition lawyer. They also don't plan anniversary fund-raising events when their child has been missing for a couple of months - unless they know she won't be found.

The McCanns were broke with mortgage arrears when Maddie disappeared - they're now mortgage-free and millionaires. Something stinks about the whole case and it's not the nappies and fish that they insist was what the cadaver dog alerted to in their hire car

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

"The parents made a poor decision they're now facing the consequences. Because of that poor decision they are responsible for what happened.

This

Saves me typing.

I would also add, some things don't seem to add up in the case from what I have seen, but like anything and especially on the net, things can be made to fit if people really want them to.

Let's hope she is living a good life rather than the alternative

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 17/01/17 12:16:44]

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Always wondered how the media would have dealt with it if they hadn't been a professional couple

Not saying that what they did was right, not at all, I think they SHOULD have been arrested for neglect but that is something they have to live with for the rest of their lives. Miss C. Xx "

Yes you're right Shannon Matthews' mother did receive lots of public support but she also didn't leave her child alone ...obviously when everything came to light she was rightfully prosecuted and condemned by the public x

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

It is sad to see emotive reactions rather than fact being used to once again condem them. If what they did was a "crime" half the parents in Britain would be in prison.

That is a very worrying thought that half of parents would leave their children alone the way they were left. In fact, any parents who would do this is worrying.

Half the parents in Britain would do the same thing....

...really??"

I was quoting

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The twins did meet Maddie. They were in the same room when she vanished.

Yeah, but at 18 months old, it's not like they'll really remember her, is it? "

They did meet her though.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"If you read the official Portuguese police files (I have) - which have been translated in their entirety and are available to read online - the evidence against the parents concealing Maddie's body is overwhelming. These are not theories, conjecture and heresay but documented inter_iews, forensic evidence and witness statements.

So why didnt they prosecute them?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It is sad to see emotive reactions rather than fact being used to once again condem them. If what they did was a "crime" half the parents in Britain would be in prison.

That is a very worrying thought that half of parents would leave their children alone the way they were left. In fact, any parents who would do this is worrying.

Half the parents in Britain would do the same thing....

...really??

I was quoting

I know Hun I just read it and my eyes fell out haha x

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Are parents who move new partners into their homes pretty much on a whim, putting their children at risk that way similarly eviscerated in the press if something happens? Because that seems just as dangerous to me as what the McCann's did but it happens all the fucking time - I've seen it with neighbours, the stupider element of my relatives, parents of the kids my friends teach, whenever you put certain programmes on the TV. Presumably it would be alright if they were saintly single parents, working class enough and displayed the appropriate level of public weeping. Then it would just be a tragic mistake.

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By *ost SockMan over a year ago

West Wales and Cardiff

I'm not going to comment on the guilt or otherwise of the McCanns, but I do think people need to be careful in this thread.

A few websites and their members have got into real difficulties because of comments published regarding this matter. Many sites pull threads about this sharpish.

I'm not saying that's right for a second - just it's the reality of the situation

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Leaving 3 children Aged 3 and 18 months alone is nothing like moving a new partner in....they intentionally left their children....I doubt people intentionally move peadophiles or whatever into their homes...anyway either way it's very sad that this little girl is gone x

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Are parents who move new partners into their homes pretty much on a whim, putting their children at risk that way similarly eviscerated in the press if something happens? "

No because thier names and identities are usually kept secret to protect the children involved.

Unlike in a missing persons case

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Thing I find very strange they was friends with Clement Freud even going to dinner at his villa there .

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By *ilary and DonaldCouple over a year ago

chingford

Any of you lot been to Butlins , Pontins or any other holiday park in Britain ?

Thousands of children were left unattended at these places. Someone , unchecked by the police, would walk around the chalets listening for crying. When detected this was flashed up in the bars "Baby crying in chalet 12"

Should all those parents be charged with neglect ?

And as for all this if they were working class bollocks.

I've never heard so much shit in all my life.

The McCann's have been slaughtered in the press, if there was a criminal charge to be put to them it would have been by now but the truth is they committed no crime.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

So why didnt they prosecute them?"

They were made 'arguidos' but left the country immediately. The case isn't closed and they haven't been cleared.

There's far to much to say about the case on one thread, it's been debated before.

https://m.fabswingers.com/forum/lounge/491551#

Best thing to do is ignore anything the MSM report - and all the internet conspiracy theories involving the Masons, satanic rituals and high-ranking paedophile rings - and read the source documents.

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By *ilary and DonaldCouple over a year ago

chingford

One thing there is absolutely no evidence of is that she was abducted.

So they planned the whole thing to clear their mortgage ?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Any of you lot been to Butlins , Pontins or any other holiday park in Britain ?

Should all those parents be charged with neglect ?

And as for all this if they were working class bollocks.

I've never heard so much shit in all my life.

The McCann's have been slaughtered in the press, if there was a criminal charge to be put to them it would have been by now but the truth is they committed no crime. "

shocking! We've got 4 aged 11-2 no way on this earth would I leave them alone...this stuff infuriates me...you have babies your priorities change

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By *ilary and DonaldCouple over a year ago

chingford

"Always wondered how the media would have dealt with it if they hadn't been a professional couple

Not saying that what they did was right, not at all, I think they SHOULD have been arrested for neglect but that is something they have to live with for the rest of their lives. Miss C. Xx

No she just hid her child at a relatives house and told the police she'd gone missing.

I know what I think is worse.

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By *ilary and DonaldCouple over a year ago

chingford

"Any of you lot been to Butlins , Pontins or any other holiday park in Britain ?

Should all those parents be charged with neglect ?

And as for all this if they were working class bollocks.

I've never heard so much shit in all my life.

The McCann's have been slaughtered in the press, if there was a criminal charge to be put to them it would have been by now but the truth is they committed no crime.

shocking! We've got 4 aged 11-2 no way on this earth would I leave them alone...this stuff infuriates me...you have babies your priorities change

You may not , thousands of people did.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

One thing there is absolutely no evidence of is that she was abducted.

This is the most interesting reply in my opinion.

Everything this poster has said reflects my own _iews. The thing that has been mentioned, and which I find very odd, is that the mother was smiling and waving to the press and television cameras days after the event. That simply is not normal behaviour. Her husband was close by and looking more like a bodyguard than a grieving father.

I think that they injected Maddie with a sedative to make her sleep, but perhaps unintentionally overdosed her and she died, then they took her body and dumped it either at sea or secreted it somewhere until they could remove it and dispose of it later.

Any parents whose child goes missing would normally move heaven and earth to find that child, look at the case of Ben Needham for example. The McCanns do not come across as that type of grief stricken parents.

There is something totally wrong about this case. It will take a very clever investigator to unravel it, and I think it will unravelled eventually.

One last thing that comes to mind is that the twins were allegedly asleep in the same room. Were they naturally asleep or were they sedated to make sure they could not see what was about to happen to Maddie and tell about it later?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I think they were guilty of leaving 3 young children alone that night.

Im unsure about anything else because the evidence is very confusing as was their behaviour.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I think a lot of this reflects the notion that they didn't appear to be weeping and wailing. I suspect that if they had, they would have garnered more sympathy for behaving 'properly'

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By *ilary and DonaldCouple over a year ago

chingford

One thing there is absolutely no evidence of is that she was abducted.

This is the most interesting reply in my opinion.

There is something totally wrong about this case. It will take a very clever investigator to unravel it, and I think it will unravelled eventually.

I'm unclear as to what you mean.

First you stated they injected her and she died accidentally

Then you imply the twins were sedated so as not to see their parents kill Madeline.

Why not kill all three why just one ?

Then they could have earned more money to escape those horrible working classes.

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By *ilary and DonaldCouple over a year ago

chingford

Lots have commented that the Mccanns were not behaving "normally"

Their child had just gone missing for fucks sake.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The parents never showed no emotions at all ,talk about cold ive friends in the force and the think they are guilty as hell.."

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

One thing there is absolutely no evidence of is that she was abducted.

So they planned the whole thing to clear their mortgage ?"

Is that what you think? Because that's certainly not what I said or implied! I merely pointed out that they have profited beyond belief from their daughter's disappearance, and continue to do so. Nothing I have quoted speculates on I personally believe happened to Maddie or why - I'm not so reckless as to post that in an open forum

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By *andsonjohnMan over a year ago

in the eye of the storm

"Lots have commented that the Mccanns were not behaving "normally"

Their child had just gone missing for fucks sake. "

I agree I could never see me giving up on a lost child plus I think there's guilt at play in there search .

by that I mean they did a silly thing leaving there children alone the result of that was one of there children went missing the guilt of that action must also be a driving force in there search .

after all if you can save your child from a mistake you made by shaving her or rescue her as atonement who wouldn't do that if they were a parent who made a mistake .

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

One thing there is absolutely no evidence of is that she was abducted.

This is the most interesting reply in my opinion.

There is something totally wrong about this case. It will take a very clever investigator to unravel it, and I think it will unravelled eventually.

I'm unclear as to what you mean.

First you stated they injected her and she died accidentally

Then you imply the twins were sedated so as not to see their parents kill Madeline.

Why not kill all three why just one ?

Then they could have earned more money to escape those horrible working classes. "

I see where you are coming from. To have three children die, or disappear,on the same evening or day in mysterious circumstances would entail a whole new level of intensive investigations from the authorities that would not have been welcomed by the McCanns. Such would possibly have revealed the truth but not the "truth" as told by the parents.

I know a Superintendent on a murder squad and when I asked about his opinion on the case he said it's been a balls up from start to finish on the investigations side, and that in his vast experience he has never ever seen such cold, clinical and seemingly heartless reactions from parents who have had their children either killed or have gone missing, and that any tears shed were merely crocodile tears. He also said that the personal and business financial and other matters of the McCanns need forensic examination because the figures seem not to add up. In his words 'it stinks like a week old dead fish'.

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By *ENGUYMan over a year ago

Hull

Let's just calm things down.

We've all got our own theories on what has happened, how we've _iewed how the parents behaved rightly or wrongly in the glare of International Press and Media scrutiny or in front of legal authorities etc.

Of course, we're all guilt free here. But what parents haven't innocently left their children out of sight, even for just a moment?

Children go missing every day even for a few minutes. Unfortunately some never get found and Police authorities still have open unsolved cases on file.

People behave in different ways in different situations, such as dealing with grief. How is it for us to pontificate as to how the parents should or shouldn't behave?

But in every post so far, has anyone thought of the one common denominator?

That is Madelaine!

If she IS still alive, she has grown up in surroundings totally alien and detached from her origins. That is the one key sad fact!

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By *sGivesWoodWoman over a year ago

ST. AUSTELL, CORNWALL

"Was just watching a programme about her disappearance. They still seem to cast doubt on whether the parents were to blame.

What was the programme called please x

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"You can't jail someone for letting your child out of your sight for long enough to be kidnapped.

How many of us here went out on a Saturday as kids, with our mates to the park, on bikes, off exploring? Or did our parents tag along just in case?

And how long should that be for, until they are 18? Or does kidnapping a 14 year old not count, maybe, so we only need to be with them until they are 13.

What happened is very sad and I would hate to have to live with it, but our parents would have done us in years ago if they could never leave our side "

They left 3 children under 3 for over 2 hours. Hardly the same thing. Regardless of their pseudo check-in rota.

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By *ilary and DonaldCouple over a year ago

chingford

My uncles girlfriends aunt knows a soothsayer and he reckons they are definitely guilty.

It was a plot to rob the working classes and enrich the poshies.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"My uncles girlfriends aunt knows a soothsayer and he reckons they are definitely guilty.

It was a plot to rob the working classes and enrich the poshies. "

Are they 'posh' or just well educated?

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By *rinking-in-laCouple over a year ago

Bristol

Fucking hell

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By *lubPartyPeepsCouple over a year ago

London

As the posts on this topic have shown, this is an incredibly emotionally charged subject, with much comment being said from the perspective of us all on the outside looking in - I found it really hard to read some of them without passing comment.

We cannot truly say how we would have reacted or acted in such a situation, until god forbid, you should go through yourself. Regardless of the opposing _iews in here, I sincerely hope no one ever does. Losing your child under such circumstances, knowing that you too could and should have been more careful is a burden that you would carry until your last dying breath.

I'm not sure if anyone has been to the resort in question but the resort is not that big compared to some, something like half the size of a small Butlin's with everything relatively close together. To the casual observer it feels far more secure and enclosed than it actually is. The restaurant was on the premises and the distance between it and the apartment is very small and within line of sight of each other. I hate to say it but my parents left me in far more dangerous circumstances compared to this when we were on holiday in Europe. At one point I got lost in Leon, France when I went wandering out of our hotel. I was little older of course, but still a young child and back then we knew far less than we know now (Abuse in Children's homes, rings etc, Jimmy Saville, had all yet to come to light) unlike my adventures and tendencies to go wandering off in Markets at the sight of the cool toys, These kids were in their room, in their apartment, not off site, sadly in the most vulnerable apartment of the complex by default of its location.

It was clearly wrong for the parents to assume they were safe here, but one can see why they made that assumption but they still did checks every 30 minutes. Unfortunately the apartments at this level were not as secure as they first appeared and shutters facing the road assumed to be locked from the inside could actually be opened relatively easily from the outside and access was not terribly difficult. Someone local could have easily had this knowledge.

I was extremely surprised to find that something similar had happened to a British woman with her daughter literally just up the road from the resort a couple of years earlier, about a mile away. Where she disturbed a man who was in the bedroom with her six year old daughter, the man escaped. This incident too, was treated extremely poorly by The police who completely failed to investigate it. There were four other incidents like this in the same area, all within a couple of miles from the resort from where McCann was taken. Certainly a warning sign that something more dangerous could occur.

Regardless of what 'Overwhelming evidence' against the McCann's you might read about in the Portuguese Police Files or the press, all of which has since been proven to be flawed btw, the response of the Police on the night was extremely poor and their limited investigation in the first 24 hours, the most crucial time in a missing child case beggars belief. The leading Police Officer who then ran the case was subsequently arrested for corruption. When the Police know they have made mistakes they tend to like to cover it up or compensate by pointing fingers elsewhere (Has Hillsborough taught us nothing??) They certainly do not, the world over, have a track record of holding their hands up and saying 'Sorry, we could and should have done better.'

I find it incredulous that anyone can possibly believe that someone would decide to harm their own child for financial gain or other spurious reasons and even then if they should choose to do this, they would choose the time and place to be on a holiday, organised by other friends and do it in the middle of a meal, with their two other children present, knowing the eventual impact that would have on those children. These theories just don't hold up in my _iew.

I would ask everyone who feels the McCanns were involved in someway to consider the possibility that the only thing that they may be guilty of is poor parenting and that you could be wrong. If that were true - If you too had been in their shoes and made such a horrendous mistake, one your paying for every single day, would you not too do everything you can to find your child? How could you rest until you know the answers?

Sadly the truth of this case will probably never be known and I don't pretend to know the answers, because I don't. I can only form an opinion on the facts I read and the things that I see. Same as everyone here, and we won't all come to same conclusions. I know I won't change anyone's minds with this post. Just try and consider the possibility that you could be wrong because ultimately it is impossible to know what really happened for sure. (The same applies to my own _iews)

As someone else said, children go missing all the time, most of them sadly don't get the PR or exposure that this case did but this happens every single day in the world, somewhere. The loss of any child is tragic, the destruction that their void leaves in the lives of those who loved them, equally so and it lasts forever.

What is not in factual dispute is that evil people are out there, as recent cases in America, Belgium and Germany have shown us. Sadly, I think it is highly more likely that someone else was responsible for whatever happened to this girl. Regardless, I respect others hold a different _iew even if I do not agree with them.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I work for the NHS and if I go to a house where a child is there on their own I have to call the police immediately or even an elderly person if I suspect any wrong doing. In 13 years I have called the police 3 times, twice because kids had been left alone and once because an elderly person had been sedated and I found her on the floor. Do I think they are guilty yes for neglect and no for murder.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 17/01/17 14:17:13]

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

Of course, we're all guilt free here. But what parents haven't innocently left their children out of sight, even for just a moment?

Do you think that is the same thing as leaving your three young children alone in an apartment for hours while you go out to eat and maybe drink?

The comparison would be if you went down the pub for your tea and drinks while your children were tucked up in bed.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 17/01/17 14:27:17]

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"As the posts on this topic have shown, this is an incredibly emotionally charged subject, with much comment being said from the perspective of us all on the outside looking in - I found it really hard to read some of them without passing comment.

Very well written

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By *icecouple561Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

East Sussex

"You can't jail someone for letting your child out of your sight for long enough to be kidnapped.

How many of us here went out on a Saturday as kids, with our mates to the park, on bikes, off exploring? Or did our parents tag along just in case?

And how long should that be for, until they are 18? Or does kidnapping a 14 year old not count, maybe, so we only need to be with them until they are 13.

What happened is very sad and I would hate to have to live with it, but our parents would have done us in years ago if they could never leave our side

They left 3 children under 3 for over 2 hours. Hardly the same thing. Regardless of their pseudo check-in rota. "

When I was a kid holiday camps ran a listening service. Kids were left locked in a flimsy, clearly identified chalet. Their parents meanwhile happy in the knowledge that an unqualified, unchecked teenage entertainer was walking round with a torch listening, could drink and dance the evening away. My parents were horrified by this but loads of people used it. I never heard of anything happening but it was an acceptable practice.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

This post should be removed for everyone's sake it is an emotive subject that the majority of people are not fully informed on.

The thread has the possibility of causing a slanderous post and making a friendly idea quite nasty.

I for one have many (pretty well informed) _iews on this but this is definitely not the place to air them

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"You can't jail someone for letting your child out of your sight for long enough to be kidnapped.

How many of us here went out on a Saturday as kids, with our mates to the park, on bikes, off exploring? Or did our parents tag along just in case?

And how long should that be for, until they are 18? Or does kidnapping a 14 year old not count, maybe, so we only need to be with them until they are 13.

What happened is very sad and I would hate to have to live with it, but our parents would have done us in years ago if they could never leave our side

They left 3 children under 3 for over 2 hours. Hardly the same thing. Regardless of their pseudo check-in rota.

Just because lots of people did it doesn't mean its right.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"You can't jail someone for letting your child out of your sight for long enough to be kidnapped.

How many of us here went out on a Saturday as kids, with our mates to the park, on bikes, off exploring? Or did our parents tag along just in case?

And how long should that be for, until they are 18? Or does kidnapping a 14 year old not count, maybe, so we only need to be with them until they are 13.

What happened is very sad and I would hate to have to live with it, but our parents would have done us in years ago if they could never leave our side

They left 3 children under 3 for over 2 hours. Hardly the same thing. Regardless of their pseudo check-in rota.

Different times and I would hazard a guess that the majority of those availing themselves of that service were not (relatively) highly paid Doctors.

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By *mmmMaybeCouple over a year ago

West Wales

I agree with all of this except "Someone else was responsible" NO "Someone else was jointly responsible" if we believe someone else took her it was only because she & her siblings had been left. If they hadn't she'd still be here.Therefore no other third party is 100% responsible for taking her, you have to give them the opportunity by your actions or lack of them & that makes you responsible.

We live 200ft from a pub, our kids sleep like logs..Would we once they are soundo pop to the pub for a drink & meal knowing there is a fucking big dog in the house who would rip the head off anyone getting in..??

Would we bollocks!!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"This post should be removed for everyone's sake it is an emotive subject that the majority of people are not fully informed on.

The thread has the possibility of causing a slanderous post and making a friendly idea quite nasty.

I for one have many (pretty well informed) _iews on this but this is definitely not the place to air them"
This

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The twins did meet Maddie. They were in the same room when she vanished."

And to young to remember her

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By *mmmMaybeCouple over a year ago

West Wales

"You can't jail someone for letting your child out of your sight for long enough to be kidnapped.

How many of us here went out on a Saturday as kids, with our mates to the park, on bikes, off exploring? Or did our parents tag along just in case?

And how long should that be for, until they are 18? Or does kidnapping a 14 year old not count, maybe, so we only need to be with them until they are 13.

What happened is very sad and I would hate to have to live with it, but our parents would have done us in years ago if they could never leave our side

They left 3 children under 3 for over 2 hours. Hardly the same thing. Regardless of their pseudo check-in rota.

Different times and I would hazard a guess that the majority of those availing themselves of that service were not (relatively) highly paid Doctors. "

Spent many holidays at Butlins & the like as a very small child. I have two older sisters so holiday camps right through the 60's-70's for all of us. Our parents never used the listening service. The kids were theirs, so dinner, couple of beers & the early part of the show, back in chalet by tenish.

They never trusted it & as I remember always dancing & playing with lots of other kids or sitting on the edge of the dancefloor watching some shite act, neither did quite a few others.

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By *ilary and DonaldCouple over a year ago

chingford

"My uncles girlfriends aunt knows a soothsayer and he reckons they are definitely guilty.

It was a plot to rob the working classes and enrich the poshies.

Are they 'posh' or just well educated?

Both are looked down upon in here so it makes little difference.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Well said.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 17/01/17 15:18:22]

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"My uncles girlfriends aunt knows a soothsayer and he reckons they are definitely guilty.

It was a plot to rob the working classes and enrich the poshies.

Are they 'posh' or just well educated?

Both are looked down upon in here so it makes little difference. "

By whom?

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By *uby0000Woman over a year ago

hertfordshire

"It was a set up to get thier name out. I recon she is in a safe house and they knew who took her."

really hope that was the case

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By *ust PeachyWoman over a year ago

Prestonish

One thing there is absolutely no evidence of is that she was abducted.

Not read the reports themselves but seen and read enough to agree with you!

Personally I believe they gave her an overdose of sedative and she died! The rest - appeals - media hype etc - has been to cover their tracks in my opinion!

I think it was manslaughter.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

One thing there is absolutely no evidence of is that she was abducted.

Not read the reports themselves but seen and read enough to agree with you!

Personally I believe they gave her an overdose of sedative and she died! The rest - appeals - media hype etc - has been to cover their tracks in my opinion!

I think it was manslaughter. "

An informed individual.

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By *ilary and DonaldCouple over a year ago

chingford

"It was a set up to get thier name out. I recon she is in a safe house and they knew who took her.

really hope that was the case "

Get their name out for what purpose ?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Well said.

And, as always, the simplest explanation is what's most likely to have happened. A grand conspiracy theory involving the hoodwinking or complicity of multiple police forces is so unrealistic as to be almost laughable.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I think the parents know more than they let on and they should have been charged with neglect"

I'm with you here banshee. If it had been Donna who has a part time job at the local office licence, she'd have been shreddered!!

Out of order leaving babies alone!!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

One thing there is absolutely no evidence of is that she was abducted.

Not read the reports themselves but seen and read enough to agree with you!

Personally I believe they gave her an overdose of sedative and she died! The rest - appeals - media hype etc - has been to cover their tracks in my opinion!

I think it was manslaughter.

An informed individual. "

Because she agrees with you?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I think the parents know more than they let on and they should have been charged with neglect

I'm with you here banshee. If it had been Donna who has a part time job at the local office licence, she'd have been shreddered!!

Out of order leaving babies alone!! "

And the McCann's haven't been "shreddered"? Read the posts on here for the mob _iew.

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By *ilary and DonaldCouple over a year ago

chingford

One thing there is absolutely no evidence of is that she was abducted.

Not read the reports themselves but seen and read enough to agree with you!

Personally I believe they gave her an overdose of sedative and she died! The rest - appeals - media hype etc - has been to cover their tracks in my opinion!

I think it was manslaughter.

An informed individual. "

She just said she hasn't read the reports so how does that make her informed ?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

One thing there is absolutely no evidence of is that she was abducted.

Not read the reports themselves but seen and read enough to agree with you!

Personally I believe they gave her an overdose of sedative and she died! The rest - appeals - media hype etc - has been to cover their tracks in my opinion!

I think it was manslaughter.

An informed individual.

Because she agrees with you? "

No because she appears more informed of fact rather than fiction... i stand by my earlier post that this thread should be removed as it is far to emotive and provocative

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By *ilary and DonaldCouple over a year ago

chingford

One thing there is absolutely no evidence of is that she was abducted.

Not read the reports themselves but seen and read enough to agree with you!

Personally I believe they gave her an overdose of sedative and she died! The rest - appeals - media hype etc - has been to cover their tracks in my opinion!

I think it was manslaughter.

An informed individual.

Because she agrees with you?

No because she appears more informed of fact rather than fiction... i stand by my earlier post that this thread should be removed as it is far to emotive and provocative "

But speculating about whether the child is dead and the cause of death is pure fiction.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I think the parents know more than they let on and they should have been charged with neglect

I'm with you here banshee. If it had been Donna who has a part time job at the local office licence, she'd have been shreddered!!

Out of order leaving babies alone!!

And the McCann's haven't been "shreddered"? Read the posts on here for the mob _iew. "

They have on occasions been the subject of speculation, Which is all hearsay from media or the public.

They should have been punished for leaving their babies alone!

(Not saying living without their daughter isn't enough) my point was... it's typical that people with a little accreditation are seen as good people and obviously aren't liars.

They weren't good people on that fateful night and had probably done it many times before!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Should add - I'm not saying I don't feel for them, because I couldn't live with myself if I'd done what they done! So it must be a daily torture!!!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I think the parents know more than they let on and they should have been charged with neglect

I'm with you here banshee. If it had been Donna who has a part time job at the local office licence, she'd have been shreddered!!

Out of order leaving babies alone!!

And the McCann's haven't been "shreddered"? Read the posts on here for the mob _iew.

They have on occasions been the subject of speculation, Which is all hearsay from media or the public.

They should have been punished for leaving their babies alone!

(Not saying living without their daughter isn't enough) my point was... it's typical that people with a little accreditation are seen as good people and obviously aren't liars.

They weren't good people on that fateful night and had probably done it many times before! "

Bollocks. You and millions of other people have decided they're cold calculating liars who are guilty of manslaughter, murder, mass conspiracy, bumping off their daughter to get their mortgage paid for, whatever - and when pressed the reason for this belief often seems to boil down to them not "looking" right or not crying enough in the TV appeals. Or have you also got a neighbours half brother's dog's wife with a mate who's in the police and says they're definitely guilty?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

One thing there is absolutely no evidence of is that she was abducted.

Not read the reports themselves but seen and read enough to agree with you!

Personally I believe they gave her an overdose of sedative and she died! The rest - appeals - media hype etc - has been to cover their tracks in my opinion!

I think it was manslaughter.

An informed individual.

Because she agrees with you?

No because she appears more informed of fact rather than fiction... i stand by my earlier post that this thread should be removed as it is far to emotive and provocative

But speculating about whether the child is dead and the cause of death is pure fiction. "

Not having read the reports is clearly a signal of someone who is informed on the topic.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I have read the reports. I dont think they did it. I do feel they were wrong to leave the children alone though.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

They left their child alone, and also have been known to DRUG their kids to sleep whilst they can go out and have a good time with friends.

They should be punished, I still believe to this day they killed her by overdose and hid the body somewhere.

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By *icecouple561Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

East Sussex

"You can't jail someone for letting your child out of your sight for long enough to be kidnapped.

How many of us here went out on a Saturday as kids, with our mates to the park, on bikes, off exploring? Or did our parents tag along just in case?

And how long should that be for, until they are 18? Or does kidnapping a 14 year old not count, maybe, so we only need to be with them until they are 13.

What happened is very sad and I would hate to have to live with it, but our parents would have done us in years ago if they could never leave our side

They left 3 children under 3 for over 2 hours. Hardly the same thing. Regardless of their pseudo check-in rota.

Different times and I would hazard a guess that the majority of those availing themselves of that service were not (relatively) highly paid Doctors. "

Does that make a difference?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

One thing there is absolutely no evidence of is that she was abducted.

Not read the reports themselves but seen and read enough to agree with you!

Personally I believe they gave her an overdose of sedative and she died! The rest - appeals - media hype etc - has been to cover their tracks in my opinion!

I think it was manslaughter.

An informed individual.

Because she agrees with you?

No because she appears more informed of fact rather than fiction... i stand by my earlier post that this thread should be removed as it is far to emotive and provocative

But speculating about whether the child is dead and the cause of death is pure fiction.

Not having read the reports is clearly a signal of someone who is informed on the topic. "

As I said this shouldn't be posted here. Personally it's not a subject that I wish to discuss.

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By *icecouple561Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

East Sussex

"You can't jail someone for letting your child out of your sight for long enough to be kidnapped.

How many of us here went out on a Saturday as kids, with our mates to the park, on bikes, off exploring? Or did our parents tag along just in case?

And how long should that be for, until they are 18? Or does kidnapping a 14 year old not count, maybe, so we only need to be with them until they are 13.

What happened is very sad and I would hate to have to live with it, but our parents would have done us in years ago if they could never leave our side

They left 3 children under 3 for over 2 hours. Hardly the same thing. Regardless of their pseudo check-in rota.

Just because lots of people did it doesn't mean its right. "

No, it doesn't. However it does imply that leaving your children alone when you're on holiday is nothing new or unusual.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I think the parents know more than they let on and they should have been charged with neglect

I'm with you here banshee. If it had been Donna who has a part time job at the local office licence, she'd have been shreddered!!

Out of order leaving babies alone!!

And the McCann's haven't been "shreddered"? Read the posts on here for the mob _iew.

They have on occasions been the subject of speculation, Which is all hearsay from media or the public.

They should have been punished for leaving their babies alone!

(Not saying living without their daughter isn't enough) my point was... it's typical that people with a little accreditation are seen as good people and obviously aren't liars.

They weren't good people on that fateful night and had probably done it many times before!

Oh donone!!! You don't know me from Adam, so how do you know I've already decided they have anything to do with it????

I actually don't watch the fucking news! It's all bullshit on every matter!!! I believe people are lead like sheep by the news!!

I haven't ruled them out of the whole nightmare!! Same as I haven't ruled out any peado that was around that area!!!

At the end of the day there's a child who is either living somewhere and abused daily because of her stupid ass parents!!

Or a child suffered a death of unspeakable torture!

Put that in ye pipe and smoke it!! Get off yr horse love!!

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

"I think the parents know more than they let on and they should have been charged with neglect

I'm with you here banshee. If it had been Donna who has a part time job at the local office licence, she'd have been shreddered!!

Out of order leaving babies alone!!

And the McCann's haven't been "shreddered"? Read the posts on here for the mob _iew.

They have on occasions been the subject of speculation, Which is all hearsay from media or the public.

They should have been punished for leaving their babies alone!

(Not saying living without their daughter isn't enough) my point was... it's typical that people with a little accreditation are seen as good people and obviously aren't liars.

They weren't good people on that fateful night and had probably done it many times before!

None of those posts you have quoted said anything like you have mentioned.

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By *entle giraffeMan over a year ago

Minehead

"I think the parents know more than they let on and they should have been charged with neglect

I'm with you here banshee. If it had been Donna who has a part time job at the local office licence, she'd have been shreddered!!

Out of order leaving babies alone!!

And the McCann's haven't been "shreddered"? Read the posts on here for the mob _iew.

They have on occasions been the subject of speculation, Which is all hearsay from media or the public.

They should have been punished for leaving their babies alone!

(Not saying living without their daughter isn't enough) my point was... it's typical that people with a little accreditation are seen as good people and obviously aren't liars.

They weren't good people on that fateful night and had probably done it many times before!

For what it's worth, I completely agree. So many judgmental people attaching unfair blame for a dreadful event upon parents trying to do their best and balance their lives as best they could.

Sometimes bad things happen and the only person to blame is the one who committed the kidnapping.

In my humble opinion

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By *ot40sCouple over a year ago

birmingham

"Always wondered how the media would have dealt with it if they hadn't been a professional couple

Probably very differently."

"Professional " one was a GP the other a consultant Cardiologist, if that's not professional ? Can you Define !!

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

As I said this shouldn't be posted here. Personally it's not a subject that I wish to discuss. "

You don't have to, just avoid the thread.

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By *icecouple561Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

East Sussex

"Always wondered how the media would have dealt with it if they hadn't been a professional couple

Probably very differently.

"Professional " one was a GP the other a consultant Cardiologist, if that's not professional ? Can you Define !!"

They're saying if they "hadn't" been professional.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

They shoukd never have left their children in the first place. We as parents shoukd protect our children always. Drugging them and leaving them on their own is not protecting them. In my eyes that is abusing them and they certainly are not fit parents.

Had that been any of we wound have been prosecuted, the book thrown at is mud and social services wound have taken the other children into care as they would have deemed us unfit parents. So what makes them any different?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Should add - I'm not saying I don't feel for them, because I couldn't live with myself if I'd done what they done! So it must be a daily torture!!! "

You still want them to be punished though.

What actual purpose do you think throwing them into jail would have achieved apart from denying to 2 other innocent kids of their parents....?

The actual BS being quoted by some on here is unreal...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"They shoukd never have left their children in the first place. We as parents shoukd protect our children always. Drugging them and leaving them on their own is not protecting them. In my eyes that is abusing them and they certainly are not fit parents.

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By *eavenscentitCouple over a year ago

barnstaple

"why take the drugs on holiday ....why was bottom of 3 piece suit cut...why hire car day after...why cant u remember where u drove....why did death dog activate in the hire car....why will they not tack lie detector test.......guilty as sin and made mugs of us all...."

Yes all very odd...at the time it all sounded iffy