FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > should we encourage smoking?
should we encourage smoking?
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Semi serious 3am thought...
If people don't smoke eat well and exercise, they live longer... possibly with long term age related illness e.g. dementia, but in any case drawing more pension than those that die from smoking etc...
so should we as a society encourage early death causing behaviours? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"No as the treatment for illnesses related to smoking cost the NHS a ridiculous amount of money. If people didn't smoke I'd be out of a job!"
It does, but lots of tax raised, plus IF they do die early as probably correctly claimed other NHS and benefit payments are saved... so it's not a direct simple cost to calculate |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Both of my parents died from lung cancer. My mother 2 days before my 7th birthday in 1969, and my dad when I was 21 in 1984.
What do you think my answer would be. "
I am sorry for your personal loss. death of a parent is hard no matter what the cause.
I should clarify I am several vodkas down, dealing with an 83 year old mother who never smoked drank etc, but who suffers from dementia and will probably be physically alive until 100+ so my perspective is very different. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Medical care is ridiculously expensive and I imagine they'll stop the pension pot paying out at some point."
Can't see any UK political party turning 90 year olds, who's pension investments have tapped out, onto the street with no pension or benefits to starve in cardboard boxes under bridges...
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Medical care is ridiculously expensive and I imagine they'll stop the pension pot paying out at some point.
Can't see any UK political party turning 90 year olds, who's pension investments have tapped out, onto the street with no pension or benefits to starve in cardboard boxes under bridges...
"
Of course not. They'd let people know and start schemes like lifetime ISAs first. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Been doing that for a while now, but with non medical nursing home care costing 800 to 1200 a week for basic service. it's going to have to be one hell of a good ISA yield of £52,000 per year, 520,000 a decade for 3 decades perhaps...
Dangerous lifestyles start to make economical sense? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Been doing that for a while now, but with non medical nursing home care costing 800 to 1200 a week for basic service. it's going to have to be one hell of a good ISA yield of £52,000 per year, 520,000 a decade for 3 decades perhaps...
Dangerous lifestyles start to make economical sense?"
It falls to local authorities to meet the gap. They take the strain of the aging population when the money runs out.
But apparently being fat is sone kind of major health risk. I'd rather continue eating cake than start smoking again. And there is always chatter about taxing unhealthy foods
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Well, it's not really a matter of the tax, we should ALL be taxed enough to cover the health of the nation. Unfortunately everyone is their own boss (eating what they want, smoking, playing sport etc.*more later.) and nothing personal to YOU is black or white.
Research about ten or fifteen years ago suggested that smoking may inhibit some conditions, like altzheimers, and doctors (given their own discretion) could say to patients that at their age (60+) it wouldnt make that much difference to "quality of life", but couldnt openly say it 'as policy' because all health professionals are meant to tow some party line that smoking is always bad, peroid.
Talking of a party line, its one of those things that cant be said, but the amount of tax brought in from smoking, and drinking, do bring in a hell of a lot of revenue, whether it goes back to the health serivice is neither here nor there.
Oh yeah, the sport thing... Do we charge anyone who comes into A&E with a 'sports injury'? like there was plans to discriminate the same way against smokers (or as the newspapers are so fond of suggesting, fat people). they are all self inflicted to a certain extent or another... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I dont think encouraging people to be unhealthy & die from smoking related diseases is the answer but I do see the reasons behind your 3am question.
We're living longer because we have medicine & life prolonging procedures for the elderly which weren't available to all years ago.
80 year olds are viable for heart ops that wouldn't have been offered back in the 1970's for example. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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We constantly hear, don't smoke, eat healthy foods, don't drink, don't do dangerous sport, with the rider that we will live longer.
While we also hear altzimers on the increase, age related illness, care home rather than independant living,pension funds collapsing, benefit caps, and poor quality of life for pensioners...
Perhaps if the government backed off the health statements, then care services wouldn't be so stretched, which results in better care for the few that make it.
Have to say the argument is a lot less clear cut in the sobriety of my morning coffee than it was with my insomnia vodka. But I still wonder if there is a conflict of interest between living long against living well.
Had my mother died 5 years ago she would have died with a life full of memories, and a family. She no longer has the memories, and family she doesn't recognise. 10 years ago she could have died as a woman who backpacked around the world.
Makes me sad  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Medical care is ridiculously expensive and I imagine they'll stop the pension pot paying out at some point.
Can't see any UK political party turning 90 year olds, who's pension investments have tapped out, onto the street with no pension or benefits to starve in cardboard boxes under bridges...
Of course not. They'd let people know and start schemes like lifetime ISAs first."
Always said if I get to the age of needing to go into a care home then I'd commit a crime and go to prison instead. I've not contributed to the system for nothing in return when I need it and would rather assets went to the kids instead of the government. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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No. I've seen someone with COPD and heart issues die a horrible death caused by morbid obesity and years of smoking. He basically drowned to death in his own fluids and there was fuck all a Hospital could do for him.
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I'd be more inclined to go on holiday to Switzerland. Although my Dad has decided that he'll just shoot my Mum, she'll be dead and he'll have a cushy, three meals a day lifestyle in prison with visits from us at no expense from our inheritance. I've yet to find a flaw in the plan!
On a serious note, it's no laughing matter caring for someone full time. I've seen it a couple of times and really it's awful all round. The cost of care for the elderly is a joke. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"No way.
Those chemicals can't ever be good for you. Only cause bad health. Why should we encourage that? "
To be fair smoking in itself I personally wouldn't recommend, and my mother never smoked or drank. but most of the chemicals that can't be good for you also comes in far greater quantities from unleaded petrol, diesel that the government pushed as being the better alternative quite recently brings a whole new bunch of chemicals and particles to the mix. I am also not convinced the current food fads will actually turn out to be healthy either...
As I said the whole argument kind of falls apart in morning light. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Ironically there are chemicals in cigarettes which would benefit my illness.
I have thyroid disease, which can be triggered through life style choices. Crazily enough in alot of cases it's over exercising, and eating soy based products that can kill the thyroid so a so called healthy life style can leave you with serious health complaints later in life.
Stress also causes more health problems, yet I don't see the government doing anything to help reduce stress.
Smoking is one evil that causes disease.
Were all adults we can make our own choices about what we want to do in life... How ever for me, soy is a bigger evil than smoking. l |
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By *emini ManMan
over a year ago
There and to the left a bit |
It's an interesting topic OP and I *kind of* see where you're coming from although can't agree with promoting anything that would reduce a nation's life expectancy rates.
If we did, and to take the debate to the extreme, you could make arguments to not provide a lot of healthcare related things (including the NHS itself) to take us right back to times when life expectancy was much lower but life in general was much simpler.
The answer is to find ways to maintain and indeed increase life expectancy, whilst at the same time finding ways to make provisions to care for those in need - which is not an easy ask I know, and opens the door to far wider debates that bring into play questions like whether to spend millions on weapons that will never be used or put that money into meeting social needs.
Either way, smoking, drinking, obesity and other largely self-inflicted illnesses will always be with us, and should rightly be highlighted as bad things IMHO.
Thanks for the thread though as it's definitely both interesting and thought provoking.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"No way.
Those chemicals can't ever be good for you. Only cause bad health. Why should we encourage that?
To be fair smoking in itself I personally wouldn't recommend, and my mother never smoked or drank. but most of the chemicals that can't be good for you also comes in far greater quantities from unleaded petrol, diesel that the government pushed as being the better alternative quite recently brings a whole new bunch of chemicals and particles to the mix. I am also not convinced the current food fads will actually turn out to be healthy either...
As I said the whole argument kind of falls apart in morning light."
I'm not one to sit hear and sell you the elixir of life.
I'm saying. Smoking isn't a good thing. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Maybe do like logans run and kill everyone at 30"
Who would raise the next generation? anyway a rule is not worth having if you don't have exceptions.
"I'm not one to sit hear and sell you the elixir of life.
I'm saying. Smoking isn't a good thing. "
I agree, what about eating, drinking, competitive sports etc? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Maybe do like logans run and kill everyone at 30
Who would raise the next generation? anyway a rule is not worth having if you don't have exceptions.
I'm not one to sit hear and sell you the elixir of life.
I'm saying. Smoking isn't a good thing. I agree, what about eating, drinking, competitive sports etc?"
You've got to watch what you eat. Drink in proporción. (I read a study saying too much water is bad for you!)
Competitive sports? People die doing what they love.
What's your point here op?
Are you telling us you think bad things for you are as bad for you as the good things? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"No as the treatment for illnesses related to smoking cost the NHS a ridiculous amount of money. If people didn't smoke I'd be out of a job!"
Actuslly the tax raised from smoking pays for the treatment and about 6 billion pounds a year extra to the treasury.
And then theres the gains from not collecting pension but thats hard to calculate.
If we actualy banned smoking today we'd have a major hole in the budget to fill.
Hence the slow steady attempts to eradicate it over time |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"What's your point here op?
Are you telling us you think bad things for you are as bad for you as the good things? "
To be honest, I am seeing lots of live longer messages, from playing with conquers is dangerous, artificial food that is supposed to be good for us. all about living longer, combined with vodka and a smoking thread on here
While at the same time buying nappies and what amounts to baby food for my mother. thinking if she had smoked, drank, and had that fresh cream cake she fancied in 1982, maybe a natural death of the body would have been kinder than a death of the soul she is currently living with.
So purely a selfish thread realy, and I think it's great when old people have fun, enjoy their retirement etc. but that too much of "live longer" is not good for the individual or the state. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"What's your point here op?
Are you telling us you think bad things for you are as bad for you as the good things?
To be honest, I am seeing lots of live longer messages, from playing with conquers is dangerous, artificial food that is supposed to be good for us. all about living longer, combined with vodka and a smoking thread on here
While at the same time buying nappies and what amounts to baby food for my mother. thinking if she had smoked, drank, and had that fresh cream cake she fancied in 1982, maybe a natural death of the body would have been kinder than a death of the soul she is currently living with.
So purely a selfish thread realy, and I think it's great when old people have fun, enjoy their retirement etc. but that too much of "live longer" is not good for the individual or the state."
Sorry to hear that mate x
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Better solution, everyone gets a 1000cc sports bike on thier 50th birthday ^_^"
and a 1400 for your 60th That's my exit strategy more power less ability each decade |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"What's your point here op?
Are you telling us you think bad things for you are as bad for you as the good things?
To be honest, I am seeing lots of live longer messages, from playing with conquers is dangerous, artificial food that is supposed to be good for us. all about living longer, combined with vodka and a smoking thread on here
While at the same time buying nappies and what amounts to baby food for my mother. thinking if she had smoked, drank, and had that fresh cream cake she fancied in 1982, maybe a natural death of the body would have been kinder than a death of the soul she is currently living with.
So purely a selfish thread realy, and I think it's great when old people have fun, enjoy their retirement etc. but that too much of "live longer" is not good for the individual or the state."
Lots of people believe it's better to burn out than fade away. (Sing)
I lean toward that persuasion somewhat.
Look at the stars that have died early, always remembered for their best years because they didn't have the dying years. They enjoyed life from start to finish.
I need to crack open a cold one if I carry on in this thread.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Better solution, everyone gets a 1000cc sports bike on thier 50th birthday ^_^ and a 1400 for your 60th That's my exit strategy more power less ability each decade "
And if you make it to 70 you get a turbo busa  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Semi serious 3am thought...
If people don't smoke eat well and exercise, they live longer... possibly with long term age related illness e.g. dementia, but in any case drawing more pension than those that die from smoking etc...
so should we as a society encourage early death causing behaviours?"
We already do.......  |
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By *uzy444Woman
over a year ago
in the suffolk countryside |
"Medical care is ridiculously expensive and I imagine they'll stop the pension pot paying out at some point.
Can't see any UK political party turning 90 year olds, who's pension investments have tapped out, onto the street with no pension or benefits to starve in cardboard boxes under bridges...
"
no they just do it to young men or those coming out of care.. do it earlier no one seems to give a shit... |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Money isn't the only measure of a person's value.
If we are happy for people to die to save us some money and effort, I wonder what the fucking hell has happened to us."
It's not all about the money, it's quality v quantity too. |
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By *andsonjohnMan
over a year ago
in the eye of the storm |
"Semi serious 3am thought...
If people don't smoke eat well and exercise, they live longer... possibly with long term age related illness e.g. dementia, but in any case drawing more pension than those that die from smoking etc...
so should we as a society encourage early death causing behaviours?"
your whole argument is what's wrong with modern human society in my opinion and maybe a fundamental flaw in the human condition also.
you can not put a cost on a human life or a worth in money terms on a human life period .
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Semi serious 3am thought...
If people don't smoke eat well and exercise, they live longer... possibly with long term age related illness e.g. dementia, but in any case drawing more pension than those that die from smoking etc...
so should we as a society encourage early death causing behaviours?
your whole argument is what's wrong with modern human society in my opinion and maybe a fundamental flaw in the human condition also.
you can not put a cost on a human life or a worth in money terms on a human life period .
"
Not quite true, we do and always have done. 1 week keeping a person alive in a western hospital costs more than the 50 that died from lack of food / clean water etc. elsewhere in the same week.
But my argument isn't really about cost, it's more about quality screaming into the graveyard full of booze, sti's and cream cakes against sitting alone in a chair unable to remember it's your 104th birthday. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Semi serious 3am thought...
If people don't smoke eat well and exercise, they live longer... possibly with long term age related illness e.g. dementia, but in any case drawing more pension than those that die from smoking etc...
so should we as a society encourage early death causing behaviours?
your whole argument is what's wrong with modern human society in my opinion and maybe a fundamental flaw in the human condition also.
you can not put a cost on a human life or a worth in money terms on a human life period .
"
Of course you can.
Would you bankrupt the whole country empty every single person in this nations babk account, sell all thier houses to save one life? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"No , maybe just allow euthanasia to be legalised. Smoking affects others not just the smoker through passive Smoking."
But you couldn't euthanase somone with dementia or altzhimers as they wouldnt be of sound mind |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Semi serious 3am thought...
If people don't smoke eat well and exercise, they live longer... possibly with long term age related illness e.g. dementia, but in any case drawing more pension than those that die from smoking etc...
so should we as a society encourage early death causing behaviours?
your whole argument is what's wrong with modern human society in my opinion and maybe a fundamental flaw in the human condition also.
you can not put a cost on a human life or a worth in money terms on a human life period .
Of course you can.
Would you bankrupt the whole country empty every single person in this nations babk account, sell all thier houses to save one life?"
Actually wait fuck it lets go the other way, instead of asking how valuable a life is in hypothetical terms.
Lets see how worthless you think one is in real terms.
If you can't put a price on life, go donate the cyrrent cash contents of your wallet to water aid.
You'll save at least one life.
But will you do it? |
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By *andsonjohnMan
over a year ago
in the eye of the storm |
"Semi serious 3am thought...
If people don't smoke eat well and exercise, they live longer... possibly with long term age related illness e.g. dementia, but in any case drawing more pension than those that die from smoking etc...
so should we as a society encourage early death causing behaviours?
your whole argument is what's wrong with modern human society in my opinion and maybe a fundamental flaw in the human condition also.
you can not put a cost on a human life or a worth in money terms on a human life period .
Not quite true, we do and always have done. 1 week keeping a person alive in a western hospital costs more than the 50 that died from lack of food / clean water etc. elsewhere in the same week.
But my argument isn't really about cost, it's more about quality screaming into the graveyard full of booze, sti's and cream cakes against sitting alone in a chair unable to remember it's your 104th birthday."
ok fella but remember this life is for the living if someone happy to drink party smoke fornicate to excess that's there choice and end of life experience that such a life may bring about is there cross to bear when it reaches that point .
what's the point in for going such things if we are all going to end up worm meat in the end anyway .
plus healthy life choices does not guarantee better end of life experience luck of the draw will still play a part in that . |
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By *andsonjohnMan
over a year ago
in the eye of the storm |
"Semi serious 3am thought...
If people don't smoke eat well and exercise, they live longer... possibly with long term age related illness e.g. dementia, but in any case drawing more pension than those that die from smoking etc...
so should we as a society encourage early death causing behaviours?
your whole argument is what's wrong with modern human society in my opinion and maybe a fundamental flaw in the human condition also.
you can not put a cost on a human life or a worth in money terms on a human life period .
Of course you can.
Would you bankrupt the whole country empty every single person in this nations babk account, sell all thier houses to save one life?"
there's the whole argument summed up you cant put a cost to saving a human life or should I say a profit to be made out of saving a human life . |
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