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The education system.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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I was watching an interesting program yesterday on bbc2, did you too? It is about the education system, 3 students in a irish school did a swap and they went to south korea to live with their class mates they got pared up with and their familys.
The south korea have turned around in just few decades to be in the top 10 most educated countries in the whole world, a typical day for a student was 14 hours and that includes after school time and the schools was open to 11.30pm, but they didnt have a social life, the presenter was surprised to see the students walking around in their uniforms so late.
The parents had to work all day and everyday to fund it and the only time they was together was on weekends, they even moved from a big place to a smaller flat nearer the school.
In the end the head teacher from the irish school came over to talk to them and he got few ideas from them.
The teachers was treated like celebrities.
What is your view and is it taken to the extreme over there and what would be a good balance? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I do not agree with this kind of education at all...Although I did not see the programme I am a great believer that kids learn by a mixture of doing, watching, talking, etc... My son goes to a different school where the focus is on the whole person rather than the academic person... Making the child confident in all aspects of themselves including confidence building, expressionism and team work.
I think our school system is antiquated and we NEED to bring it into the 21st centaury... modern free thinking schools... shall I go on !!!!!! |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I do not agree with this kind of education at all...Although I did not see the programme I am a great believer that kids learn by a mixture of doing, watching, talking, etc... My son goes to a different school where the focus is on the whole person rather than the academic person... Making the child confident in all aspects of themselves including confidence building, expressionism and team work.
I think our school system is antiquated and we NEED to bring it into the 21st centaury... modern free thinking schools... shall I go on !!!!!! "
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You're comparing apples with oranges, OP.
The South Korean educational system is one of the most intensive on earth, and I think the S Koreans spend more money, per capita, than anywhere else in the world.
Parents pays. Private schooling in South Korea operates on an “industrial scale,” with 75% of all South Korean children attending an additional private school or tutor. Wanna pay for that for each of your 4 kids? Hmm. Maybe not... Perhaps that's why S Korea has such a low birth rate.
Typical school day: "She rises at 6.30am, is at school by 8am, finishes at 4pm, (or 5pm if she has a club), then pops back home to eat.
She then takes a bus to her second school shift of the day, at a private crammer or hagwon, where she has lessons from 6pm until 9pm.
There is a government curfew on kids between 11pm - 8am. The government says your kids are breaking the law. Interesting, huh?
If you spend a fuck load of tax and intensively farm kids - and I mean INVENTIVELY - from the age of 2, then yes they will know their sums and be able to write better than our kids.
Maybe go live there first and try it before you inflict it on the rest of us?
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PS - Fisturbingly worry over career and academic performance is the main reason youths aged 13-19 contemplate suicide. According to the Ministry of Gender Equality, suicide was the biggest cause of death among people aged 15-24. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I watched the programme (it was Welsh teenagers, btw, rather than Irish). It was a compare and contrast, rather than a "this is how we should be doing it" - and was very clear about the negatives in terms of the costs both financial and emotional to family life, the pressure and high suicide rates among the South Korean teenagers.
That said, the respect and value placed on education and aspiration really came across and is something we could only ever aspire to. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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But then, as a child who *was* very academic and wanted to just get my head down and learn, without everyone else fucking about being "creative" or "learning through expression" or whatever, I would probably have thrived in that environment. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Sounds interesting.
I've read a lot about educational systems in Asia and while they tend to be productive, regimented, and successful, I've also heard that the learning style creates a dearth of "creative intelligence." I'm not an expert in pedagogy, but from what I can tell the absence of such creative intelligence is considered to be a major drawback to those types of educational plans. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Sounds interesting.
I've read a lot about educational systems in Asia and while they tend to be productive, regimented, and successful, I've also heard that the learning style creates a dearth of "creative intelligence." I'm not an expert in pedagogy, but from what I can tell the absence of such creative intelligence is considered to be a major drawback to those types of educational plans. "
One of the observations the students themselves made was that there seemed to be a lot of memorising going on, to the detriment of real understanding in some cases. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Provide accommodation to the best standard add to that well trained and motivated teachers to deliver a curriculum that matches modern expectations and remove politics from the delivery of said education provision and standards will improve. It's not rocket science! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I think we need to remember we cannot make our children robots of education ... Like with most things people will always work better in environments where they feel their best...this includes balance, teachers, managers, respect etc... talking at 30 kids a day is hard to manage from the start, virtually an impossible task, so how can you get the kids to understand education, who may struggle daily to even sit still....
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I believe school should be 9-5 the extra hours would allow parents especially single parents the opportunity to work whilst there kids are in school.
"
Because school is just child care 
I think the opposite. The emphasis should be on encouraging parents to be good parents with lots of family time. Not working themselves to death while their kids are brought up by others. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Sounds interesting.
I've read a lot about educational systems in Asia and while they tend to be productive, regimented, and successful, I've also heard that the learning style creates a dearth of "creative intelligence." I'm not an expert in pedagogy, but from what I can tell the absence of such creative intelligence is considered to be a major drawback to those types of educational plans. "
This can be said of most education systems. Rote learning, teaching to the exam aren't encouraging of creativity.
Kids begin school as creatives. The challenge is keeping them that way in systems that prefer things that can be easily measured and compared. |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Hereford |
I find it interesting that we should focus on the east Asian model of schooling, when scandinavian schooling is excellent and we are much closer, culturally to the scandinavians.
I can well imagine that intensive schooling crushes the spirit, so I guess it depends on what kind of adults we want to turn out. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Sounds interesting.
I've read a lot about educational systems in Asia and while they tend to be productive, regimented, and successful, I've also heard that the learning style creates a dearth of "creative intelligence." I'm not an expert in pedagogy, but from what I can tell the absence of such creative intelligence is considered to be a major drawback to those types of educational plans.
This can be said of most education systems. Rote learning, teaching to the exam aren't encouraging of creativity.
Kids begin school as creatives. The challenge is keeping them that way in systems that prefer things that can be easily measured and compared."
Yes, it can be said of most educational systems but it's interesting to note that Asian countries tend to do more poorly on measures of creativity in comparison to western countries.
I read an article about Asian educational systems (mostly China) in comparison to the US system, which notoriously does worse than expected on many measures of testing (math, science, etc) but which does very well in levels of creativity. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I find it interesting that we should focus on the east Asian model of schooling, when scandinavian schooling is excellent and we are much closer, culturally to the scandinavians.
I can well imagine that intensive schooling crushes the spirit, so I guess it depends on what kind of adults we want to turn out. "
The focus is on those because the Asian rankings have increased while the Scandinavian rankings have declined (albeit still high).
The rankings are based on very narrow aspects of education and so interests are biased towards those things.
All bollocks really. But measurable bollocks. |
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"I believe school should be 9-5 the extra hours would allow parents especially single parents the opportunity to work whilst there kids are in school.
Because school is just child care
I think the opposite. The emphasis should be on encouraging parents to be good parents with lots of family time. Not working themselves to death while their kids are brought up by others."
This |
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"I believe school should be 9-5 the extra hours would allow parents especially single parents the opportunity to work whilst there kids are in school.
Because school is just child care
I think the opposite. The emphasis should be on encouraging parents to be good parents with lots of family time. Not working themselves to death while their kids are brought up by others."
I said to give them the opportunity to work, would mean that women in particular could continue there career path without massive break. I know many who can't work due to spiraling child care costs. I don't consider the average 9-5 working myself to death would love those hours |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Hereford |
"I believe school should be 9-5 the extra hours would allow parents especially single parents the opportunity to work whilst there kids are in school.
"
There's more to life than making others money with your surplus-value, you know. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Children, particularly young children can't sustain those types of hours and it has no educational benefit to them anyway.
A good family environment however is a huge advantage to a child.
Your 9-5 suggestion ignores the reality of a commute and a school pick up - making it 8-6. Then house cleaning, shopping, making dinner, homework ... and all of a sudden no family time at all let alone time for clubs or playing with friends.
The pressure on parents to work above bringing up their children is wrong. |
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By *yldstyleWoman
over a year ago
A world of my own |
The current basic school model is not right for all children. Until there is enough resource to fully adapt teaching methods to fit with the way different children learn. Our schools will still fail some children.
"If you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree,it will forever think its a failure" our system still has too much focus on changing the child and not the environment.
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"The current basic school model is not right for all children. Until there is enough resource to fully adapt teaching methods to fit with the way different children learn. Our schools will still fail some children.
"If you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree,it will forever think its a failure" our system still has too much focus on changing the child and not the environment.
"
Very true |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I watched the programme (it was Welsh teenagers, btw, rather than Irish). It was a compare and contrast, rather than a "this is how we should be doing it" - and was very clear about the negatives in terms of the costs both financial and emotional to family life, the pressure and high suicide rates among the South Korean teenagers.
That said, the respect and value placed on education and aspiration really came across and is something we could only ever aspire to. "
That is right. I meant the welsh students. |
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By *otgirl32Woman
over a year ago
Ashton Under Lyne |
"Sounds interesting.
I've read a lot about educational systems in Asia and while they tend to be productive, regimented, and successful, I've also heard that the learning style creates a dearth of "creative intelligence." I'm not an expert in pedagogy, but from what I can tell the absence of such creative intelligence is considered to be a major drawback to those types of educational plans.
This can be said of most education systems. Rote learning, teaching to the exam aren't encouraging of creativity.
Kids begin school as creatives. The challenge is keeping them that way in systems that prefer things that can be easily measured and compared.
Yes, it can be said of most educational systems but it's interesting to note that Asian countries tend to do more poorly on measures of creativity in comparison to western countries.
I read an article about Asian educational systems (mostly China) in comparison to the US system, which notoriously does worse than expected on many measures of testing (math, science, etc) but which does very well in levels of creativity. "
Courtney is partly right. I don't have kids (yet, LOL) but have looked at this quite closely because of a niece of mine. Having personally had a very mediocre education but raised by a sensible English teacher mum, I feel that a combination of both West and Asian systems is ideal. The Asian regimented system is needed for discipline but room for that "creativity" is so important. It's strange that the US and UK have some of the WORST performing school scores and Asian countries like Japan, Singapore, Korea are on the top. But students from Korean and other Asian universities produce or create very little in terms of innovation. On the other hand, students in US universities create a LOT of innovation but .... a very large proportion of that innovation is coming from Asian students who went through the regimented education system of their homes and then were allowed to create and thrive in American universities.
So if and when I have kids, they're going to a highly regimented disciplined school in their formative years. Of course I'm likely to never be able to afford private school LOL |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Sounds interesting.
I've read a lot about educational systems in Asia and while they tend to be productive, regimented, and successful, I've also heard that the learning style creates a dearth of "creative intelligence." I'm not an expert in pedagogy, but from what I can tell the absence of such creative intelligence is considered to be a major drawback to those types of educational plans.
This can be said of most education systems. Rote learning, teaching to the exam aren't encouraging of creativity.
Kids begin school as creatives. The challenge is keeping them that way in systems that prefer things that can be easily measured and compared.
Yes, it can be said of most educational systems but it's interesting to note that Asian countries tend to do more poorly on measures of creativity in comparison to western countries.
I read an article about Asian educational systems (mostly China) in comparison to the US system, which notoriously does worse than expected on many measures of testing (math, science, etc) but which does very well in levels of creativity.
Courtney is always right. I don't have kids (yet, LOL) but have looked at this quite closely because of a niece of mine. Having personally had a very mediocre education but raised by a sensible English teacher mum, I feel that a combination of both West and Asian systems is ideal. The Asian regimented system is needed for discipline but room for that "creativity" is so important. It's strange that the US and UK have some of the WORST performing school scores and Asian countries like Japan, Singapore, Korea are on the top. But students from Korean and other Asian universities produce or create very little in terms of innovation. On the other hand, students in US universities create a LOT of innovation but .... a very large proportion of that innovation is coming from Asian students who went through the regimented education system of their homes and then were allowed to create and thrive in American universities.
So if and when I have kids, they're going to a highly regimented disciplined school in their formative years. Of course I'm likely to never be able to afford private school LOL "
FTFY  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I once worked in primary education and it was like banging your head against a brick wall. Most parents weren't that motivated to help in their child's education and that continues today (5 years after I left) as the school has one of the lowest reading attainment rating in the locality. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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My sons school follows 7 core subjects and the rest is made up of Extra Futures Curriculum.. Its like a breath of fresh air for the kids.... Their confidence is boosted and can excel in areas they maybe would not otherwise know of especially if studying academia for hours on end. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"My sons school follows 7 core subjects and the rest is made up of Extra Futures Curriculum.. Its like a breath of fresh air for the kids.... Their confidence is boosted and can excel in areas they maybe would not otherwise know of especially if studying academia for hours on end. "
Is it an academy? |
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oh to be a teacher....all that holiday time...and time with my kids at half terms ....such a hard days work ....bollocks....ps my sister is a dep head in kent these are her thoughts,that she likes to tell us |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I believe school should be 9-5 the extra hours would allow parents especially single parents the opportunity to work whilst there kids are in school.
"
Yes the extra time could be used for life skills... money management.. etc |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I once worked in primary education and it was like banging your head against a brick wall. Most parents weren't that motivated to help in their child's education and that continues today (5 years after I left) as the school has one of the lowest reading attainment rating in the locality."
I've never figured this out - how people don't take an interest. I read to my daughter every night and she reads regularly and loves reading.
The teachers have picked up on this and she pretty much has free reign over what she chooses to read but they add in their own suggestions now and then. She brought home a version of Midsummer Nights recently and loved it.
Always help with homework and even holidays are organised to tie in to school work. We went to see Pudding Lane when she was learning about the Great Fire of London. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I once worked in primary education and it was like banging your head against a brick wall. Most parents weren't that motivated to help in their child's education and that continues today (5 years after I left) as the school has one of the lowest reading attainment rating in the locality."
It gets worse at secondary level - there are bright children who are keen and motivated at primary school who get to secondary school and learning is no longer seen as cool or acceptable by their peers and whose parents don't take it seriously either. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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You miss the point when you analyse the education systems.
If you want to understand the real reasons for the differences you need to look at the culture and society. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Watched the funny video with the Irish school laddie walking home in the snow talking about the length of time it would take for frostbite to occur
Much funnier in my opinion |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Hereford |
"I once worked in primary education and it was like banging your head against a brick wall. Most parents weren't that motivated to help in their child's education and that continues today (5 years after I left) as the school has one of the lowest reading attainment rating in the locality.
It gets worse at secondary level - there are bright children who are keen and motivated at primary school who get to secondary school and learning is no longer seen as cool or acceptable by their peers and whose parents don't take it seriously either. "
I'm not a fan of doing school stuff outside of school hours, myself. Obviously, I read to/with my daughter, but I don't believe in homework, I feel that kids spend more then enough time in a regimented learning environment.
But then, I never liked school much, myself. I hated being indoors all the time, and the feeling of being confined isn't a nice one. That said, I think that schools have massiveley improved since I was at school age. I had some shit teachers, and I feel that Ionly really started to excel at degree level, but then, I was studying a subject that I loved, and had chosen to study. |
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Sending kids, remember kids, to school 9-5 would be too much. 5 hrs learning time is more than enough and gives them time for extra curricular.
Definitely culture is an influence, as too is parent's view on education and supporting their child. And definitely some very bright kids getting in with the wrong crowd, becoming 'cool' and wasting their talents. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The schools and education system can work, with better collaboration between, teachers, parents, the school and industry. There is too much blame culture where school blame parents, they blame the school, no focus on the future and no light at the end of the tunnel for some. If everyone gave more support especially in the community is can help our young people develop. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"oh to be a teacher....all that holiday time...and time with my kids at half terms ....such a hard days work ....bollocks....ps my sister is a dep head in kent these are her thoughts,that she likes to tell us"
And I think a post like this sums up some of the issues with our education system - rightly or wrongly teaching simply isn't a respected profession in this country. It seems with countries with a supposedly better system than ours teaching is respected. Not sure if it's a chicken or the egg situation. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I developed more as a person by being in cadets outside school and being given real responsibility early.
As a very practical person I hated rigid formal learning. I think technical schools and colleges will make a comeback as kids loose the ability to think for themselves but going to the university of google |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"oh to be a teacher....all that holiday time...and time with my kids at half terms ....such a hard days work ....bollocks....ps my sister is a dep head in kent these are her thoughts,that she likes to tell us
And I think a post like this sums up some of the issues with our education system - rightly or wrongly teaching simply isn't a respected profession in this country. It seems with countries with a supposedly better system than ours teaching is respected. Not sure if it's a chicken or the egg situation. "
 |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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That same person has been posting the same bullshit argument for several years so don't take it any way seriously. I seem to remember their previous claim was to have been a caretaker in a school which apparently made them very bitter. |
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And their educational system. 
