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Leaving the Army
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was listening to the Radio today about the Army not doing enough for soldiers leaving to go back to civvy street.
Now i understand that, due to them living on bases etc they would need help setting up homes etc but in terms of getting training and new jobs my question is - WHY?
If i decided i wanted to leave my job (as the news item didnt mention that these people were leaving due to illness etc i am assuming they chose to leave)i would not expect them to supply me with training etc to go work in another industry.
one of the people inter_iewed came accross to me as suggesting that the Army should help her find work. No bugger helps me find work!!!
I thought that one of the big benefits of the Army etc was that you got to learn trades whilst serving so that when you left you could use that to fall back on?
this is not a dig at the Army or anyone serving past present and future, i just cant get my head around why the Army have to provide anymore help than it does for people chosing to leave and work on civvy street. |
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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago
Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum |
Probably because they are so totally looked after by the Army from when they join to when they leave they don't know any different. Until recently the single soldiers didn't even have to pay for food.
I work with soldiers and think they are great, but it is a bit galling to see them off to do PT on a Wednesday afternoon, or slope of early on a Friday lunchtime. I know they are on call 24/7, 365 days a year but really, if they are not on Ops, they have a pretty cushy life.
And they look great in fatigues. Yum! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Take Cover!!!!
If your French I would surrender!!!
Personally I think...
A boy joins up at 16 years old a boy, he is told what to do and when to do it for x number of years, roof provided, food provided...
Then they leave and join civvy street and they are on there own!!
At the end of the day, these people have offered their lives for our benefit, regardless of what the political stance you take, they offered their lives for us..
What is too much for them?? |
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"to be fair tho.. most large companies offer retraining if redundancies are on the card."
yeah in redundancy situations, but the whole feel of the item was when someone chooses to leave the Army... |
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By *iewMan
over a year ago
Forum Mod Angus & Findhorn |
"to be fair tho.. most large companies offer retraining if redundancies are on the card.
yeah in redundancy situations, but the whole feel of the item was when someone chooses to leave the Army..."
'chooses to'... oops, sorry missed that.
 |
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"Take Cover!!!!
If your French I would surrender!!!
Personally I think...
A boy joins up at 16 years old a boy, he is told what to do and when to do it for x number of years, roof provided, food provided...
Then they leave and join civvy street and they are on there own!!
At the end of the day, these people have offered their lives for our benefit, regardless of what the political stance you take, they offered their lives for us..
What is too much for them??"
but they CHOSE to do it. no one forces them to go into the Army.
i get the bit about offering them help finding housing etc and actually think that that is a good idea, like you said, the army has provided a roof for them since they joined etc.
i am not saying its right or its wrong, i just dont understand it |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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To be fair, servicemen and women live a pretty much cloistered life whilst in the forces and a lot can change in civvy street whilst they are serving. I doubt they keep totally up to speed with social issues that affect civilians as they have so much more to worry about such as staying alive.
I have a few friends who have been in and left the forces and they were assisted in finding work and adjusting to civilian life - even sorting out your self assessment can be a big problem for those that have been doing it every year since the govt started issuing them.
I don't think it is such a great hardship to help them get on when they come out, so long as the funding comes from the defence budget and not elsewhere. |
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Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr not another forces thread runs for cover...
They need re training as yes they have a trade but what could an infranty soldier do in civvy street when he is trained to kill??
What about a bomb disposial soldier he can't go out and do that..
There are various trades in the army that have transferable skills that can be taken to different jobs.
However its like us starting a new job we receive training and we have the job centre to help us look for work..
My ex husband came out after 22 and a bit years and he dont know what to do with himself and no bugger is employing him.
Anyway thats my thoughts |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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A mate of mine was an RSM in the Paras and he retrained to be a Cisco engineer when he left the Army. The training he received made him one of only a handful of Cisco engineers to have most of the certs that Cisco award.
Total cost of the training was £6k, he's now earning £60k+. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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So .... lets just get this straight,a person joins the army (their choice),are sent to wartorn countries (which they know when they join), fight for their country (as they are trained to do) and then when they have seen enough of their friends killed, maimed, mentally scarred, etc, etc, etc they choose to stay in the army because ???? Oh yeh thats right because they may need a little help from those who dont choose this path in life to settle into civy street....... is it just me or do our soldiers not deserve a little help now and then ????  |
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"A mate of mine was an RSM in the Paras and he retrained to be a Cisco engineer when he left the Army. The training he received made him one of only a handful of Cisco engineers to have most of the certs that Cisco award.
Total cost of the training was £6k, he's now earning £60k+."
My bro in law got into construction when he left the army and is on a decent wack now... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Employers need certificates and qualifications, and whilst the army train the men in a number of different areas, they do not have a grading system or certificates.
So after the person has served a set amount of time, be it 5 years 15 years or 22 years, when they leave they have nothing to show for their service.
(Medals and scars to one side)
How many emplyers are looking for people who can strip a field rifel?
Build a bridge, blow up a compound, strip an engine looking for a bomb??
Etc etc..
How many jobs other than the forces, require those skills?
Office skills well they are office skills, so are more transferable.
As are aspects of most other jobs.
Sorry My dad was the families officer for the engineers in the British Army for 3 years after his 22 years in service. I sat in his office as a teenager in Germany, watching men based abroad trying to compete with C.V's and qualifications for jobs here in the U.K
Annoyingly employers require certificates and the army doesn't issue them in accordance.
The Police force, fire brigade and many other large organisations have programmes in place to 'transition' the people leaving the forces. Other wise the army give them courses in Plastering, Electrics, etc to give them half a chance in civvie street.
It isnt a case of serve 5 years and get any course you want. It's a graded system, where the army and the individual will both contribute towards funding of courses (Pre approved courses) Also it's not like you can give the forces 2 weeks notice when you are serving on foreign soil.
As I said my dad did over 22 years of service, 3 years in total where in the UK, the rest of the time he was in Hong Kong, Italy, Germany (Tours and wars to one side) He was posted back to the UK and did his courses alongside his army responsibilities.
Sorry for the essay, Hope this clears things a little  |
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"Employers need certificates and qualifications, and whilst the army train the men in a number of different areas, they do not have a grading system or certificates.
So after the person has served a set amount of time, be it 5 years 15 years or 22 years, when they leave they have nothing to show for their service.
(Medals and scars to one side)
How many emplyers are looking for people who can strip a field rifel?
Build a bridge, blow up a compound, strip an engine looking for a bomb??
Etc etc..
How many jobs other than the forces, require those skills?
Office skills well they are office skills, so are more transferable.
As are aspects of most other jobs.
Sorry My dad was the families officer for the engineers in the British Army for 3 years after his 22 years in service. I sat in his office as a teenager in Germany, watching men based abroad trying to compete with C.V's and qualifications for jobs here in the U.K
Annoyingly employers require certificates and the army doesn't issue them in accordance.
The Police force, fire brigade and many other large organisations have programmes in place to 'transition' the people leaving the forces. Other wise the army give them courses in Plastering, Electrics, etc to give them half a chance in civvie street.
It isnt a case of serve 5 years and get any course you want. It's a graded system, where the army and the individual will both contribute towards funding of courses (Pre approved courses) Also it's not like you can give the forces 2 weeks notice when you are serving on foreign soil.
As I said my dad did over 22 years of service, 3 years in total where in the UK, the rest of the time he was in Hong Kong, Italy, Germany (Tours and wars to one side) He was posted back to the UK and did his courses alongside his army responsibilities.
Sorry for the essay, Hope this clears things a little "
Amen sister............. |
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By *iewMan
over a year ago
Forum Mod Angus & Findhorn |
"Employers need certificates and qualifications, and whilst the army train the men in a number of different areas, they do not have a grading system or certificates.
So after the person has served a set amount of time, be it 5 years 15 years or 22 years, when they leave they have nothing to show for their service.
(Medals and scars to one side)
How many emplyers are looking for people who can strip a field rifel?
Build a bridge, blow up a compound, strip an engine looking for a bomb??
Etc etc..
How many jobs other than the forces, require those skills?
Office skills well they are office skills, so are more transferable.
As are aspects of most other jobs.
Sorry My dad was the families officer for the engineers in the British Army for 3 years after his 22 years in service. I sat in his office as a teenager in Germany, watching men based abroad trying to compete with C.V's and qualifications for jobs here in the U.K
Annoyingly employers require certificates and the army doesn't issue them in accordance.
The Police force, fire brigade and many other large organisations have programmes in place to 'transition' the people leaving the forces. Other wise the army give them courses in Plastering, Electrics, etc to give them half a chance in civvie street.
It isnt a case of serve 5 years and get any course you want. It's a graded system, where the army and the individual will both contribute towards funding of courses (Pre approved courses) Also it's not like you can give the forces 2 weeks notice when you are serving on foreign soil.
As I said my dad did over 22 years of service, 3 years in total where in the UK, the rest of the time he was in Hong Kong, Italy, Germany (Tours and wars to one side) He was posted back to the UK and did his courses alongside his army responsibilities.
Sorry for the essay, Hope this clears things a little "
Great reply.. very imformative.. thanks |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Hopefully this may educate more than a few as to just some of the reasons why we should provide a little support......... I for one shall be glad when my son 'chooses' to leave the army!!!!!!! |
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like i said, was looking for education into this as the item i heard on the news was scant on actual info (serves me right for listening to Radio 1 Newsbeat i suppose)
thank you to Quietly Kinky for taking the time to explain, and for those who seemed incensed at the questions, i apologise, not my intention - was looking to educate myself, thats all. |
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By *iewMan
over a year ago
Forum Mod Angus & Findhorn |
"like i said, was looking for education into this as the item i heard on the news was scant on actual info (serves me right for listening to Radio 1 Newsbeat i suppose)
thank you to Quietly Kinky for taking the time to explain, and for those who seemed incensed at the questions, i apologise, not my intention - was looking to educate myself, thats all."
Don't apologise, you asked a question.
I can understand the emotion when family members are involved but the subject of the Armed Forces is one that it seems no one is allowed to discuss unless we constantly praise them.
I will repeat... I have the utmost respect for them all... the utmost.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"...the subject of the Armed Forces is one that it seems no one is allowed to discuss unless we constantly praise them."
That's what I tried to say yesterday. |
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By *ustyWoman
over a year ago
inverclyde |
i have to agree with a few of the posts but when you are in any of the forces you have a secure job, as to living if married you can choose to either live in married quarters and the rent is deducted from your pay or you can live off base in your own home which you get no help with, when you come out its the big wide world for you, my now ex hubby was in the raf and a pilot but for him to fly in the commercial world he had to get a civilian liscence to fly in civvi street as he was only qualified to fly military planes and you have to have diff qualification to fly dif military aircraft. you then have to start applying for jobs in civvi street and like everyone else you do get rejected its not given to you on a plate |
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Its called resettlement, some of it used to be 'sponsored' by Industry.
Anyone who has served in a disciplined service for a couple of decades will tend to become institutionalised, especially so in the Forces.
If we give assistance to convicts after long term sentences i see no issue with assisting the guys and gals who we expect to stop a bullet for us.
Between Ops they will be doing a lot of training, courses etc. Considering the hours they do on ops and excercises etc an early slope on poets day is not a problem. |
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By *eren35Woman
over a year ago
cardiff |
"Employers need certificates and qualifications, and whilst the army train the men in a number of different areas, they do not have a grading system or certificates.
So after the person has served a set amount of time, be it 5 years 15 years or 22 years, when they leave they have nothing to show for their service.
(Medals and scars to one side)
How many emplyers are looking for people who can strip a field rifel?
Build a bridge, blow up a compound, strip an engine looking for a bomb??
Etc etc..
How many jobs other than the forces, require those skills?
Office skills well they are office skills, so are more transferable.
As are aspects of most other jobs.
Sorry My dad was the families officer for the engineers in the British Army for 3 years after his 22 years in service. I sat in his office as a teenager in Germany, watching men based abroad trying to compete with C.V's and qualifications for jobs here in the U.K
Annoyingly employers require certificates and the army doesn't issue them in accordance.
The Police force, fire brigade and many other large organisations have programmes in place to 'transition' the people leaving the forces. Other wise the army give them courses in Plastering, Electrics, etc to give them half a chance in civvie street.
It isnt a case of serve 5 years and get any course you want. It's a graded system, where the army and the individual will both contribute towards funding of courses (Pre approved courses) Also it's not like you can give the forces 2 weeks notice when you are serving on foreign soil.
As I said my dad did over 22 years of service, 3 years in total where in the UK, the rest of the time he was in Hong Kong, Italy, Germany (Tours and wars to one side) He was posted back to the UK and did his courses alongside his army responsibilities.
Sorry for the essay, Hope this clears things a little "
Completly agree.. well said!
If anyone's to blame for the situation our servicemen/women find themselves in after service then look at the MOD/Govt, and the british employers. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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A real challenge, especially for the single men leaving the Forces after a number of years is that many have no real connection to any particular place.
Guys who've enlisted at 16-17, somtimes having come out of the care system, and have spent 20 years being moved around the country and the world often lose contact with their family, friends and roots.
I've heard of guys who've walked off their last ship with a very few quid in their pockets and absolutely no idea where they're going to go.
Anecdotally, the biggest single problem is putting a roof over their heads. It must be really hard to find work when you have no permanent address - it's probably even difficult getting into the benefits system without an address. |
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By *LBishCouple
over a year ago
near bury st edmunds |
" Until recently the single soldiers didn't even have to pay for food.
!"
Sorry to correct this small point, but soldiers have always paid for their food, just before they paid for it even if they didn't eat it, now most have Pay as you dine.
I think the reason why the forces give this trainign has been covered well. Being in the forces means you are pretty well protected from all the ills out in the real world. Everyone around you is in work, and they don't get help with houseing as of yet, so any help to get a job in ciovvie street is not only needed but _ustyfied. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"to be fair tho.. most large companies offer retraining if redundancies are on the card."
i got given quite a lot of support when i left the biggest oil company in the world...i would much rather have not been made redundant tho...i loved that job !!  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Probably because they are so totally looked after by the Army from when they join to when they leave they don't know any different. Until recently the single soldiers didn't even have to pay for food.
I work with soldiers and think they are great, but it is a bit galling to see them off to do PT on a Wednesday afternoon, or slope of early on a Friday lunchtime. I know they are on call 24/7, 365 days a year but really, if they are not on Ops, they have a pretty cushy life.
And they look great in fatigues. Yum!"
ok lets dispell some certain facts
as an ex serving soldier single soldiers do not get meals provided free of charge we had to pay for them at an ashtonishing rate for pretty much what was not even edible for livestcok roofs were provided but again at a rate that was far more beneifcary to the mod as the accomodation was substandard and your not allowed to do anything with it to make it more habitable apart from put posters up but then when you take them down you have to fill any holes that are made by the thumb tacks, yes we were on duty 24/7 - 365 for about 13k a year this only goes up when you reach certain levels so that divided by the amount of hours is less than national minimum wage you dont get any extra for keeping that barracks safe(stag duty) on a night in the guard house you still have to pay for your room when on operations or training exercise and you still dont get any extra pay the new z class accomodation that was brought in 2003 is ten years behind when it should have come into force and soldiers were more than happy when they brought pay sa you dine in as this meant that they could eat out when thay wanted what they wanted. when you leave the army you resetllement only after you have been in for over 5 years and tthen it is limited to what they think, you hand your kit in get a medical and on your way. anyone with ptsd or anything like should be looked after for atleast three years after coming out to beable to have time to adjust
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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other points to note aswell
if you live in barracks here in the uk you still have to pay for your own tv licence if you have a tv in your room
you still have to pay a certain amount of council tax all this is taken out of your wage before you see it so on a £1000 per month you acctuall only see around £550 of it which when you have a car you have to insure and tax it
the accomodation costs you pay are for a six square bedspace as you share your room with atleast three other blokes
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Funkable's mention of being on call 24x7 reminds me of a guy from Acas on the radio talking (if I understood him correctly) about the need to pay a care worker who lived in the facility she provided cover for.
His _iew was that, since the worker was effectively on call 168 hours per week, she should be entitled to the National Minimum Wage x 168 = approx £1,000 per week. |
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I think the US got it right with their soldiers I worked for the US army in their ASAP programme (Alcohol substance abuse programme) wow what a great service they had.
If you are married the US army pay for you to live on base. They give you monthly money for food shopping and extra for living in Germany.
There was also a single soldier programme where there was trips arranged for the single soldiers. They also had the USO where family members could go and have one USO office in every major military country.
They also have a programme called from troops to teachers where the army pay for soldiers to become teachers towards the end of their career..
I am not saying that we should put soldiers on a pedistal but we should at least give them some form of support when leaving the army. |
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we dont as a nation look after our ex services very well at all, (then again they are not the only group in society in that position)
more guys have died through suicide who served in the Falkland islands than actually died in that particular conflict
pro rata ex services are very high up on the list of mental illness linked to conflict and serving or have served prison sentences
the long term effects of the two most recent wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are yet to be seen
yes we are a nation with a volunteer armed service however when help is needed its often only provided by charities |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think the US got it right with their soldiers I worked for the US army in their ASAP programme (Alcohol substance abuse programme) wow what a great service they had.
If you are married the US army pay for you to live on base. They give you monthly money for food shopping and extra for living in Germany.
There was also a single soldier programme where there was trips arranged for the single soldiers. They also had the USO where family members could go and have one USO office in every major military country.
They also have a programme called from troops to teachers where the army pay for soldiers to become teachers towards the end of their career..
I am not saying that we should put soldiers on a pedistal but we should at least give them some form of support when leaving the army. "
would defo agree that the americans have it right had the pleasure of working with them on ops in kosovo twice where ever thay go they take thing from home the biggest thing they take is mcdonalds they build mini cities where ever they go with cinemas they look after there soldiers what do we get on ops for down time (beasted round camp for hours on end) oh and a cinema bus that holds ten ppl and comes around every 12 months there food is of a much higher quality too all this boosts morale
putting the army on a pedestal would be wrong but cedrtainly show them the respect they deserve at the end of tha day they proect us here back in the uk i know i can sleep a lot safer knowing they are doing there jobs letting me sleep at night.
i think £1000 a week i a little excesive but they deserve more than £250 dont you think
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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i do a bit of charity work now for those that are injured on duty and are left depending on others for the rest of there life.
important to remember the soldier's family who often are the ones picking up the pieces of a shattered loved one.
it takes a huge amount of strength to give up your own life to care for someone you love.
the emotionally wear and tear most people would not understand or be able to cope with.
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"i do a bit of charity work now for those that are injured on duty and are left depending on others for the rest of there life.
important to remember the soldier's family who often are the ones picking up the pieces of a shattered loved one.
it takes a huge amount of strength to give up your own life to care for someone you love.
the emotionally wear and tear most people would not understand or be able to cope with.
"
Nothing to do with thread but I always wondered what your profile pic was I thought it was you sitting on rocks but now I know how wrong I was  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"i do a bit of charity work now for those that are injured on duty and are left depending on others for the rest of there life.
important to remember the soldier's family who often are the ones picking up the pieces of a shattered loved one.
it takes a huge amount of strength to give up your own life to care for someone you love.
the emotionally wear and tear most people would not understand or be able to cope with.
Nothing to do with thread but I always wondered what your profile pic was I thought it was you sitting on rocks but now I know how wrong I was "
omg lady.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" Until recently the single soldiers didn't even have to pay for food.
!
Sorry to correct this small point, but soldiers have always paid for their food, just before they paid for it even if they didn't eat it, now most have Pay as you dine.
I think the reason why the forces give this trainign has been covered well. Being in the forces means you are pretty well protected from all the ills out in the real world. Everyone around you is in work, and they don't get help with houseing as of yet, so any help to get a job in ciovvie street is not only needed but _ustyfied."
glad you picked up on the paying for food my x husband was an army chef and i know how little a day they use to get to feed them and ive also had to fill in the sheets cant remember what its called so those that eat can be charged |
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