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The Q in LGBTQ...
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But I like the word Quandary,,,  | |||
"I'm very inclusive in my outlook in life and I've long been a supporter of LGBT rights, even before I realise I was Bi, but today I saw the Q on the end of the acronym and I wondered what it stood for. I understand the differentiation between the other points but isn't Queer covered under the other letters? Since it's a derogatory term for gay is it just appropriation of a negative term? I'm in a little bit of a quandary here as I feel it may muddy the waters adding colloquial derogatory terms to what is a direct and definable heading I'm not trying to start an argument here I'm genuinely interested in people's views" I replied in the other thread cause I didn't see this one! But I've always understood the Q to mean questioning  | |||
"I'm very inclusive in my outlook in life and I've long been a supporter of LGBT rights, even before I realise I was Bi, but today I saw the Q on the end of the acronym and I wondered what it stood for. I understand the differentiation between the other points but isn't Queer covered under the other letters? Since it's a derogatory term for gay is it just appropriation of a negative term? I'm in a little bit of a quandary here as I feel it may muddy the waters adding colloquial derogatory terms to what is a direct and definable heading I'm not trying to start an argument here I'm genuinely interested in people's views I replied in the other thread cause I didn't see this one! But I've always understood the Q to mean questioning "That would make a great deal more sense and is far more inclusive. Although the fact that people don't know what it directly means again is an issue | |||
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"In the dizzying days of Myspace I would often refer to myself as queer - I saw it in part as reclamation of the word and also as an all encompassing term which meant anything other than hetero. It's something which is quite contested amongst the LGBTQ circle, at one point at uni a motion was passed to remove it to avoid offending those who have triggering memories related to it. I like the idea of questioning but I do think queer represents a flexibility for sexuality including 'pan' and other such terms and helps increase intersectionality. Sorry for the slight stream of consciousness, I'm out soon for coffee so coherence will resume shortly." Surely then P would be a better addition? | |||
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"You see I thought queer meant strange and gay meant happy. I'm too innocent for all this " I just spat coffee out.  | |||
"In the dizzying days of Myspace I would often refer to myself as queer - I saw it in part as reclamation of the word and also as an all encompassing term which meant anything other than hetero. It's something which is quite contested amongst the LGBTQ circle, at one point at uni a motion was passed to remove it to avoid offending those who have triggering memories related to it. I like the idea of questioning but I do think queer represents a flexibility for sexuality including 'pan' and other such terms and helps increase intersectionality. Sorry for the slight stream of consciousness, I'm out soon for coffee so coherence will resume shortly. Surely then P would be a better addition? " A lot of people do include the P, but it ends up as something like LGBTQIAP+ with everything added, so a lot of people now shorten it down to LGBTQ+ | |||
"You see I thought queer meant strange and gay meant happy. I'm too innocent for all this I just spat coffee out. "What it's true  | |||
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"isn't Queer covered under the other letters? Since it's a derogatory term for gay is it just appropriation of a negative term?" No, it means something different. It denotes those people who feel they don't fit into the other categories. If one rejects the notion of binary genders, how can one be straight or gay? Mr ddc | |||
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"I have used it as questioning, as that was how it was presented to me. There were similar debates in the 90s about including the B and T. There was a (very) short phase of some insisting on two Ts. There was also the debate about why the L is first... None of it is perfect for everyone and it's not fixed in stone. I use that which those of the communities tell me is what they prefer using now. " ^ this. Ask people how they prefer to be referred to if insure. And if people get it wrong, calmly ask them to refer to you in your preferred way. Decent people will. | |||
"isn't Queer covered under the other letters? Since it's a derogatory term for gay is it just appropriation of a negative term? No, it means something different. It denotes those people who feel they don't fit into the other categories. If one rejects the notion of binary genders, how can one be straight or gay? Mr ddc" Doesn't that mean everybody would be in the group, falling into one of the letters to a larger or smaller degree? | |||
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"isn't Queer covered under the other letters? Since it's a derogatory term for gay is it just appropriation of a negative term? No, it means something different. It denotes those people who feel they don't fit into the other categories. If one rejects the notion of binary genders, how can one be straight or gay? Mr ddc" Because binary means two, as in only two options. Straight and gay are extremes on a spectrum. They exist as options but it's not as simple as being one or the other. | |||
"I'm very inclusive in my outlook in life and I've long been a supporter of LGBT rights, even before I realise I was Bi, but today I saw the Q on the end of the acronym and I wondered what it stood for. I understand the differentiation between the other points but isn't Queer covered under the other letters? Since it's a derogatory term for gay is it just appropriation of a negative term? I'm in a little bit of a quandary here as I feel it may muddy the waters adding colloquial derogatory terms to what is a direct and definable heading I'm not trying to start an argument here I'm genuinely interested in people's views" It is queer. But they mean to not accept any gender identity...male or female. This liberalism has passed self-parody. So, i wonder, which toilet do they use. Do they advocate unisex. That's fine with me but a rape victim might object. How many more letters can you add to an abbreviation before it includes everyone. | |||
"I'm very inclusive in my outlook in life and I've long been a supporter of LGBT rights, even before I realise I was Bi, but today I saw the Q on the end of the acronym and I wondered what it stood for. I understand the differentiation between the other points but isn't Queer covered under the other letters? Since it's a derogatory term for gay is it just appropriation of a negative term? I'm in a little bit of a quandary here as I feel it may muddy the waters adding colloquial derogatory terms to what is a direct and definable heading I'm not trying to start an argument here I'm genuinely interested in people's views It is queer. But they mean to not accept any gender identity...male or female. This liberalism has passed self-parody. So, i wonder, which toilet do they use. Do they advocate unisex. That's fine with me but a rape victim might object. How many more letters can you add to an abbreviation before it includes everyone." It's not designed to include everyone though, only those who don't identify as straight and cis. Maybe it should be simply 'cis and straight' and 'not cis and straight'. NCS rather than LGBTQIABCD... | |||
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" No, it means something different. It denotes those people who feel they don't fit into the other categories. If one rejects the notion of binary genders, how can one be straight or gay? Mr ddc Doesn't that mean everybody would be in the group, falling into one of the letters to a larger or smaller degree?" No, heterosexuals wouldn't, obviously. There is someone on here who self-defines as this, so would be better able to explain it than me. This might help though: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genderqueer | |||
"People are just people. And surely who you fancy or fuck shouldn't define you. We are all a little bit more complex than that, aren't we? "A fine sentiment but seriously?! Have you looked on the news? Out of the window? Maybe even read a bi guy thread where we get slated as dirty and pedalars of disease (and that's just the smallest issue experienced by groups) there is a huge lack of understanding out there for LGBT+ (see; learning!) people and to dismiss it as we're all people is an over simplification. I'm not defined by my sexuality, it's part of who I am and it's taken a long time for me to accept that, to be belittled and ridiculed as a result of it is abhorrent and requires redress in society. Understanding and sensitivity is just a part of the way forwards | |||
"If one rejects the notion of binary genders, how can one be straight or gay? Mr ddc Because binary means two, as in only two options. Straight and gay are extremes on a spectrum. They exist as options but it's not as simple as being one or the other." I honestly cannot work out whether you're trying to agree with me, or argue against me. Your ability to start an argument in an empty house is starting to confuse me. | |||
" No, it means something different. It denotes those people who feel they don't fit into the other categories. If one rejects the notion of binary genders, how can one be straight or gay? Mr ddc Doesn't that mean everybody would be in the group, falling into one of the letters to a larger or smaller degree? No, heterosexuals wouldn't, obviously. There is someone on here who self-defines as this, so would be better able to explain it than me. This might help though: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genderqueer" It's even more complicated than that. Some trans people identify as straight. So it's cis straight people that fall outside the definition. | |||
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"If one rejects the notion of binary genders, how can one be straight or gay? Mr ddc Because binary means two, as in only two options. Straight and gay are extremes on a spectrum. They exist as options but it's not as simple as being one or the other. I honestly cannot work out whether you're trying to agree with me, or argue against me. Your ability to start an argument in an empty house is starting to confuse me." That's ironic since I was the one who stopped responding to our last exchange to avoid an argument but whatever. I'm answering the question. I can't see anything in that question to agree with or argue against. It's a question. | |||
"I was confused by yet another term that is starting to be used HBT - apparently it stands for homophobic, biphobic and transphobic. " All included in the general term "arsehole". | |||
" It's even more complicated than that. Some trans people identify as straight. " How complicated can it be? Surely the trans people are covered by the "T"? | |||
" It's even more complicated than that. Some trans people identify as straight. How complicated can it be? Surely the trans people are covered by the "T"? " Yes, they are. So it's only cis straight people outside the group. | |||
"I was confused by yet another term that is starting to be used HBT - apparently it stands for homophobic, biphobic and transphobic. All included in the general term "arsehole"." 
As Liam Hackett said 'I wasn't bullied because I was gay, I was bullied because of homophobia. There's a huge difference' #AntiBullyingWeek
Not that I know who Liam Hackett is but it's an awesome quote. | |||
" That's ironic since I was the one who stopped responding to our last exchange to avoid an argument but whatever. " technically it isn't ironic, since it was you that started that argument too when you chose to PM me your vitriol. I had assumed you stopped when I chose not to rise to your bait. "I'm answering the question. I can't see anything in that question to agree with or argue against. It's a question." It was also rhetorical. To prove the reason why the term exists. Well done. I'm out of this thread too now. | |||
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" It's even more complicated than that. Some trans people identify as straight. How complicated can it be? Surely the trans people are covered by the "T"? Yes, they are. So it's only cis straight people outside the group." Yes, straight people aren't included in the banner because no straight person has to campaign for their sexuality to be included or accepted by society, straight is what society is built around. No straight person was ever marginalised or abused for wanting to get married, for kissing in public or for holding hands in a bar | |||
" That's ironic since I was the one who stopped responding to our last exchange to avoid an argument but whatever. technically it isn't ironic, since it was you that started that argument too when you chose to PM me your vitriol. I had assumed you stopped when I chose not to rise to your bait. I'm answering the question. I can't see anything in that question to agree with or argue against. It's a question. It was also rhetorical. To prove the reason why the term exists. Well done. I'm out of this thread too now. " PM you my vitriol? Huh? There was no vitriol there 
I wanted to discuss an aspect of something you posted on the forum. You didn't want to hear it, so I withdrew from the discussion.
Vitriol? | |||
" It's even more complicated than that. Some trans people identify as straight. How complicated can it be? Surely the trans people are covered by the "T"? Yes, they are. So it's only cis straight people outside the group. Yes, straight people aren't included in the banner because no straight person has to campaign for their sexuality to be included or accepted by society, straight is what society is built around. No straight person was ever marginalised or abused for wanting to get married, for kissing in public or for holding hands in a bar " You've totally missed my point. Trans straight people ARE included because they are trans. Not all straight people are outside the group. Only cis straight people. | |||
"I was confused by yet another term that is starting to be used HBT - apparently it stands for homophobic, biphobic and transphobic. All included in the general term "arsehole".
As Liam Hackett said 'I wasn't bullied because I was gay, I was bullied because of homophobia. There's a huge difference' #AntiBullyingWeek
Not that I know who Liam Hackett is but it's an awesome quote. " | |||
" That's ironic since I was the one who stopped responding to our last exchange to avoid an argument but whatever. technically it isn't ironic, since it was you that started that argument too when you chose to PM me your vitriol. I had assumed you stopped when I chose not to rise to your bait. I'm answering the question. I can't see anything in that question to agree with or argue against. It's a question. It was also rhetorical. To prove the reason why the term exists. Well done. I'm out of this thread too now. " Which is a shame as I enjoy your reasoned approach. I tried to PM you but you've blocked single guys, so what's wrong with us guys then hmmmm?! | |||
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"What does cis stand for" It's the opposite of trans, basically. It means people who identify as the the sex they were born as. | |||
"What does cis stand for It's the opposite of trans, basically. It means people who identify as the the sex they were born as." what do the initials stand for. And i have a question. Are more people being born trans or is it that people are inderstanding what trans is where as people hid the fact and led mixed up lives | |||
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"What does cis stand for It's the opposite of trans, basically. It means people who identify as the the sex they were born as.what do the initials stand for. And i have a question. Are more people being born trans or is it that people are inderstanding what trans is where as people hid the fact and led mixed up lives" It's not an acronym, it's a prefix. Cis-gendered is the opposite to trans-gendered. | |||
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"For example, A person born with male genitals and body but who identifies as female can be attracted exclusively to men and consider herself straight. She, despite identifying as straight, is included in the group in the T caregory. A person born with male genitals and body who identifies as male and is attracted to women is a cis, straight man. He doesn't belong to the LGBTG group. A woman born as a woman who is attracted only to men is a cis, straight woman. She also doesn't belong to the group." i understand all that i just dont know what the letters cis stand for | |||
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"What does cis stand for It's the opposite of trans, basically. It means people who identify as the the sex they were born as.what do the initials stand for. And i have a question. Are more people being born trans or is it that people are inderstanding what trans is where as people hid the fact and led mixed up lives It's not an acronym, it's a prefix. Cis-gendered is the opposite to trans-gendered." ahh thats where i was confused. | |||
"Personally I think more people coming out as trans is largely down to increased understanding and growing acceptance. Statistics are unreliable though, and there's no way to tell how many people have been born trans but hidden it, so it's impossible to know for sure." what are the statistics for people identifying as trans in the uk | |||
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"Personally I think more people coming out as trans is largely down to increased understanding and growing acceptance. Statistics are unreliable though, and there's no way to tell how many people have been born trans but hidden it, so it's impossible to know for sure.what are the statistics for people identifying as trans in the uk" I have a report from some government department or other here somewhere but I'd have to find it. It says itself figures are unreliable. I'll look it out but I can't tell you off the top of my head. It's a small minority from what I remember. | |||
"Personally I think more people coming out as trans is largely down to increased understanding and growing acceptance. Statistics are unreliable though, and there's no way to tell how many people have been born trans but hidden it, so it's impossible to know for sure.what are the statistics for people identifying as trans in the uk I have a report from some government department or other here somewhere but I'd have to find it. It says itself figures are unreliable. I'll look it out but I can't tell you off the top of my head. It's a small minority from what I remember." i find it all very interesting. I know we have a long way to go but 15 years ago id never even heard of the word transgender, i knew people had sex change ops but that was the limit to my knowledge. I know im quite ignorant on the subject and in general i dont like to label sexual orientation but i do think transgender is a third gender regardless of their sexual orientation. It upsets me as someone born a female and identifies as a female and never questioned that that there are people having to go through so much. | |||
"What does cis stand for It's the opposite of trans, basically. It means people who identify as the the sex they were born as." The lunatics have taken over the asylum. You can identify as a teapot for all I care but DNA and chromosomes don't lie. There are just two sexes, male and female, and a vanishingly small number of people born with anomalies but they will still be XX or XY. Who you choose to fuck, or kiss, or hold hands with, or marry, or take a joint loan with, is your business, it's got nothing to do with which sex you are. Homosexuality would have bred out in 3 generations if it was "abnormal", but since it can't be passed on by DNA and yet it still persists there is obviously some selection process at work, so it's "minority" compared to hetero. And because of all the insanity we get threads about guys who are worried that sucking cock will make then one label or another, dude, if you want to munch on some cock, go for it, if the idea has no appeal, don't. There are basically two sorts of people in the world, people like me who don't give a shit who you fuck, so we are uninterested in your self classification alphabet soup, and people who will have an opinion on who you should and should not, and they won't be swayed by your self classification alphabet soup. There is a bloke a few miles away who identified as a woman and started dressing like one, he got fired from the bus company for continually exceeding his three reportable shunts per year, but according to him it was a case of sexual discrimination because he looks like a very ugly woman with an adam's apple (his words, not mine) Those of you you want to use such labels for yourselves and have the labels treated with respect will get nowhere by calling the rest of us names, you need to sort your own house out first and stop showing solidarity with those who use the same labels to hide their own incompetence. The bus company got rid of three drivers who exceeded their accident quota that year, justifiably so, those were the rules, only one complained. I couldn't honestly tell you what sexual orientation the other two were, they never made it the cornerstone of their identity. The sad truth is that for most people the task of keeping up to date with the latest politically correct terminilogy is like keeping track of which celebutard is fucking which other celebutard, life is just too short, we have other fish to fry. That doesn't mean it is a deliberate attempt to create offence. | |||
"Personally I think more people coming out as trans is largely down to increased understanding and growing acceptance. Statistics are unreliable though, and there's no way to tell how many people have been born trans but hidden it, so it's impossible to know for sure.what are the statistics for people identifying as trans in the uk I have a report from some government department or other here somewhere but I'd have to find it. It says itself figures are unreliable. I'll look it out but I can't tell you off the top of my head. It's a small minority from what I remember.i find it all very interesting. I know we have a long way to go but 15 years ago id never even heard of the word transgender, i knew people had sex change ops but that was the limit to my knowledge. I know im quite ignorant on the subject and in general i dont like to label sexual orientation but i do think transgender is a third gender regardless of their sexual orientation. It upsets me as someone born a female and identifies as a female and never questioned that that there are people having to go through so much." I can't even begin to imagine how awful it must be. The least society can do is try to understand and allow them to be themselves | |||
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"I don't advocate adopting the word queer in that context .....
But I like the word Quandary,,, " | |||
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"I agree fully with having an open and accepting attitude to all. Is having an LGBT 'community' counter-productive? Kind of an us and them thing? MrB" It can be but it can also be simply a support thing for those outside of what some consider "the norm" or "the natural way of things". I think having groups in which one can feel safe being oneself, and be around people who understand the difficulties, is a good thing. There's also the matter of lobbying for acceptance and change. Individuals can't do a lot, usually, but groups can be powerful. We all need people who understand us and support us. LGBTQ groups help people find that. | |||
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"isn't Queer covered under the other letters? Since it's a derogatory term for gay is it just appropriation of a negative term? No, it means something different. It denotes those people who feel they don't fit into the other categories. If one rejects the notion of binary genders, how can one be straight or gay? Mr ddc" I agree Mr DDC. Q can be questionning, or Queer - or both, as the individual person may see fit. I like the reclammation of the queer word, taking back the power that had been misused against them, for way too long. And also supporting the stance against others', so that non-binary gender etc is supported. I've used it myself, though don't tend to at present. | |||
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"isn't Queer covered under the other letters? Since it's a derogatory term for gay is it just appropriation of a negative term? No, it means something different. It denotes those people who feel they don't fit into the other categories. If one rejects the notion of binary genders, how can one be straight or gay? Mr ddc I agree Mr DDC. Q can be questionning, or Queer - or both, as the individual person may see fit. I like the reclammation of the queer word, taking back the power that had been misused against them, for way too long. And also supporting the stance against others', so that non-binary gender etc is supported. I've used it myself, though don't tend to at present. " Queer is a sexual identity though, not a gender identity? This is why I responded to the post originally, because there seems to be some confusion in some posts between the two. | |||
"If anyone called me queer it would end in tears.... but not my tears..... "That's because you don't identify that way though and you're interpreting it as the old, pejorative term for gay. In LGBTQ, the meaning has evolved. If it merely meant gay, there would be no need for it. Anyone looking at a well known fetish site would find loads of people identifying as Queer. They don't mean gay. They mean they don't feel they fit into any other sexual category. Often they mean their sexuality is very fluid. Calling anyone queer as an insult is unacceptable but who is to tell someone who feels that the term describes them, that they can't identify that way? | |||
"If anyone called me queer it would end in tears.... but not my tears.....
That's because you don't identify that way though and you're interpreting it as the old, pejorative term for gay.
In LGBTQ, the meaning has evolved. If it merely meant gay, there would be no need for it.
Anyone looking at a well known fetish site would find loads of people identifying as Queer. They don't mean gay. They mean they don't feel they fit into any other sexual category. Often they mean their sexuality is very fluid.
Calling anyone queer as an insult is unacceptable but who is to tell someone who feels that the term describes them, that they can't identify that way?"No it's because as teenager a friend of mine committed suicide having been amongst other things mocked and scorned by twats calling him queer | |||
"If anyone called me queer it would end in tears.... but not my tears.....
That's because you don't identify that way though and you're interpreting it as the old, pejorative term for gay.
In LGBTQ, the meaning has evolved. If it merely meant gay, there would be no need for it.
Anyone looking at a well known fetish site would find loads of people identifying as Queer. They don't mean gay. They mean they don't feel they fit into any other sexual category. Often they mean their sexuality is very fluid.
Calling anyone queer as an insult is unacceptable but who is to tell someone who feels that the term describes them, that they can't identify that way?
No it's because as teenager a friend of mine committed suicide having been amongst other things mocked and scorned by twats calling him queer "And anyone using it in that way is slap bang, unquestionably out of order in my book and deserves a punch in the jaw. It's also being used with a different meaning, having been reclaimed, for completely the opposite purpose - to give an identity to and include a group that doesn't feel they fit anywhere else. I wouldn't expect you to be happy about being called queer, regardless of your history, because you're not. At least, I don't think so! I don't actually know how you identify tbh (and it's none of my business either). | |||
"If anyone called me queer it would end in tears.... but not my tears.....
That's because you don't identify that way though and you're interpreting it as the old, pejorative term for gay.
In LGBTQ, the meaning has evolved. If it merely meant gay, there would be no need for it.
Anyone looking at a well known fetish site would find loads of people identifying as Queer. They don't mean gay. They mean they don't feel they fit into any other sexual category. Often they mean their sexuality is very fluid.
Calling anyone queer as an insult is unacceptable but who is to tell someone who feels that the term describes them, that they can't identify that way?"I thought this settled inside 5 mins? The Q in LGBTQ stands for questioning. | |||
"If anyone called me queer it would end in tears.... but not my tears.....
That's because you don't identify that way though and you're interpreting it as the old, pejorative term for gay.
In LGBTQ, the meaning has evolved. If it merely meant gay, there would be no need for it.
Anyone looking at a well known fetish site would find loads of people identifying as Queer. They don't mean gay. They mean they don't feel they fit into any other sexual category. Often they mean their sexuality is very fluid.
Calling anyone queer as an insult is unacceptable but who is to tell someone who feels that the term describes them, that they can't identify that way?
I thought this settled inside 5 mins?
The Q in LGBTQ stands for questioning."No, some people say queer, some say questioning, some say both. People identifying as queer are common on that well known fetish site. And what about the "We're here, we're queer..." slogan, chant etc? | |||
"If anyone called me queer it would end in tears.... but not my tears.....
That's because you don't identify that way though and you're interpreting it as the old, pejorative term for gay.
In LGBTQ, the meaning has evolved. If it merely meant gay, there would be no need for it.
Anyone looking at a well known fetish site would find loads of people identifying as Queer. They don't mean gay. They mean they don't feel they fit into any other sexual category. Often they mean their sexuality is very fluid.
Calling anyone queer as an insult is unacceptable but who is to tell someone who feels that the term describes them, that they can't identify that way?
I thought this settled inside 5 mins?
The Q in LGBTQ stands for questioning."No Joe - as Dee Viante states, is also for Queer: it's got a dual context in LGBTQF, Queer or Questioning. I can understand you Soxy, having been the subject of insults a long time ago and losing your friend is reason enough to not want to use. | |||
"If anyone called me queer it would end in tears.... but not my tears.....
That's because you don't identify that way though and you're interpreting it as the old, pejorative term for gay.
In LGBTQ, the meaning has evolved. If it merely meant gay, there would be no need for it.
Anyone looking at a well known fetish site would find loads of people identifying as Queer. They don't mean gay. They mean they don't feel they fit into any other sexual category. Often they mean their sexuality is very fluid.
Calling anyone queer as an insult is unacceptable but who is to tell someone who feels that the term describes them, that they can't identify that way?
No it's because as teenager a friend of mine committed suicide having been amongst other things mocked and scorned by twats calling him queer
And anyone using it in that way is slap bang, unquestionably out of order in my book and deserves a punch in the jaw.
It's also being used with a different meaning, having been reclaimed, for completely the opposite purpose - to give an identity to and include a group that doesn't feel they fit anywhere else.
I wouldn't expect you to be happy about being called queer, regardless of your history, because you're not. At least, I don't think so! I don't actually know how you identify tbh (and it's none of my business either)."I don't accept any of this crap about reclaiming a word that has never been used by society as a measure of a affection or acceptance.... It's a total insult to every generations who endured the stigma of living through times when being gay or bi or living with gender related issues targeted them as being lesser in society ..... | |||
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"If it's got that many letters and interpretations of the acronym, it's meaningless bunk. Re-write it." "Heterosexuality isn't normal - it's just common." ~ Dorothy Parker | |||
"If anyone called me queer it would end in tears.... but not my tears.....
That's because you don't identify that way though and you're interpreting it as the old, pejorative term for gay.
In LGBTQ, the meaning has evolved. If it merely meant gay, there would be no need for it.
Anyone looking at a well known fetish site would find loads of people identifying as Queer. They don't mean gay. They mean they don't feel they fit into any other sexual category. Often they mean their sexuality is very fluid.
Calling anyone queer as an insult is unacceptable but who is to tell someone who feels that the term describes them, that they can't identify that way?
No it's because as teenager a friend of mine committed suicide having been amongst other things mocked and scorned by twats calling him queer
And anyone using it in that way is slap bang, unquestionably out of order in my book and deserves a punch in the jaw.
It's also being used with a different meaning, having been reclaimed, for completely the opposite purpose - to give an identity to and include a group that doesn't feel they fit anywhere else.
I wouldn't expect you to be happy about being called queer, regardless of your history, because you're not. At least, I don't think so! I don't actually know how you identify tbh (and it's none of my business either).
I don't accept any of this crap about reclaiming a word that has never been used by society as a measure of a affection or acceptance....
It's a total insult to every generations who endured the stigma of living through times when being gay or bi or living with gender related issues targeted them as being lesser in society .....
"I can understand your stance and I'm sorry you lost a friend. I think those who identify that way would disagree with you but I'm not invested in it either way. I can see both sides. Gay used to be an insult though. Some still use it that way but the meaning and usage has changed. | |||
"If it's got that many letters and interpretations of the acronym, it's meaningless bunk. Re-write it." I did, ^ up there somewhere. NCS | |||
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"If it's got that many letters and interpretations of the acronym, it's meaningless bunk. Re-write it. I did, ^ up there somewhere. NCS" Which means? | |||
"If it's got that many letters and interpretations of the acronym, it's meaningless bunk. Re-write it. I did, ^ up there somewhere. NCS" I've always thought 'alternative sexualities' would be enough to cover it. Sounds faintly ridiculous to me as the list of letters gets longer and longer... | |||
" And anyone using it in that way is slap bang, unquestionably out of order in my book and deserves a punch in the jaw. " ..... Aha the good old left wing philosophy of 1 banning it 2 you deserve to be punched for your offensiveness... . . Your level of offence taken does not warrant increasing levels of violence!.... That's the starting point, work your way backwards | |||
"If it's got that many letters and interpretations of the acronym, it's meaningless bunk. Re-write it. I did, ^ up there somewhere. NCS I've always thought 'alternative sexualities' would be enough to cover it. Sounds faintly ridiculous to me as the list of letters gets longer and longer..." NHS = Non Heterosexual ;) | |||
"If anyone called me queer it would end in tears.... but not my tears.....
That's because you don't identify that way though and you're interpreting it as the old, pejorative term for gay.
In LGBTQ, the meaning has evolved. If it merely meant gay, there would be no need for it.
Anyone looking at a well known fetish site would find loads of people identifying as Queer. They don't mean gay. They mean they don't feel they fit into any other sexual category. Often they mean their sexuality is very fluid.
Calling anyone queer as an insult is unacceptable but who is to tell someone who feels that the term describes them, that they can't identify that way?
No it's because as teenager a friend of mine committed suicide having been amongst other things mocked and scorned by twats calling him queer
And anyone using it in that way is slap bang, unquestionably out of order in my book and deserves a punch in the jaw.
It's also being used with a different meaning, having been reclaimed, for completely the opposite purpose - to give an identity to and include a group that doesn't feel they fit anywhere else.
I wouldn't expect you to be happy about being called queer, regardless of your history, because you're not. At least, I don't think so! I don't actually know how you identify tbh (and it's none of my business either).
I don't accept any of this crap about reclaiming a word that has never been used by society as a measure of a affection or acceptance....
It's a total insult to every generations who endured the stigma of living through times when being gay or bi or living with gender related issues targeted them as being lesser in society .....
I can understand your stance and I'm sorry you lost a friend.
I think those who identify that way would disagree with you but I'm not invested in it either way. I can see both sides.
Gay used to be an insult though. Some still use it that way but the meaning and usage has changed."Gay is word that society used in a complimentary contact long before it became a term used to describe the homosexual community.... PS I simply identify as nothing more than a bisexual man who enjoys a proclivity for dressing up in frocks every now and again.....
My reason for doing so is totally recreational and completely unrelated to those people who are driven by a deep seated motivation to be that person they truly are ....... | |||
"If it's got that many letters and interpretations of the acronym, it's meaningless bunk. Re-write it. I did, ^ up there somewhere. NCS I've always thought 'alternative sexualities' would be enough to cover it. Sounds faintly ridiculous to me as the list of letters gets longer and longer... NHS = Non Heterosexual ;)" But as I've pointed out, that's not accurate. It's non cis heterosexuals. Trans people can be hetero. | |||
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"If it's got that many letters and interpretations of the acronym, it's meaningless bunk. Re-write it. I did, ^ up there somewhere. NCS I've always thought 'alternative sexualities' would be enough to cover it. Sounds faintly ridiculous to me as the list of letters gets longer and longer... NHS = Non Heterosexual ;) But as I've pointed out, that's not accurate. It's non cis heterosexuals. Trans people can be hetero. " I was being flippant! So what's NCS? An out-going, dressed-to-the-nines sexually anarchic bunch of people who solve crimes? | |||
" And anyone using it in that way is slap bang, unquestionably out of order in my book and deserves a punch in the jaw. ..... Aha the good old left wing philosophy of 1 banning it 2 you deserve to be punched for your offensiveness... . . Your level of offence taken does not warrant increasing levels of violence!.... That's the starting point, work your way backwards "Anyone calling anyone else queer, intending it as an insult to their sexuality*, is asking for a smack. (Disclaimer: queer in Norfolk has another, less insulting meaning) | |||
"If it's got that many letters and interpretations of the acronym, it's meaningless bunk. Re-write it. I did, ^ up there somewhere. NCS I've always thought 'alternative sexualities' would be enough to cover it. Sounds faintly ridiculous to me as the list of letters gets longer and longer... NHS = Non Heterosexual ;) But as I've pointed out, that's not accurate. It's non cis heterosexuals. Trans people can be hetero. I was being flippant! So what's NCS? An out-going, dressed-to-the-nines sexually anarchic bunch of people who solve crimes?" Not Cis & Straight. Same thinking as you but more precise  | |||
"It gets too complicated after a fashion. The simplest ideas are usually the best. " It becomes complicated when individual people choose to blur the lines attempting to force fit an agenda that doesn't add value to a greater cause .... | |||
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"If it's got that many letters and interpretations of the acronym, it's meaningless bunk. Re-write it. I did, ^ up there somewhere. NCS I've always thought 'alternative sexualities' would be enough to cover it. Sounds faintly ridiculous to me as the list of letters gets longer and longer... NHS = Non Heterosexual ;) But as I've pointed out, that's not accurate. It's non cis heterosexuals. Trans people can be hetero. I was being flippant! So what's NCS? An out-going, dressed-to-the-nines sexually anarchic bunch of people who solve crimes? Not Cis & Straight. Same thinking as you but more precise "WTF is Cis? More acronyms!? | |||
" And anyone using it in that way is slap bang, unquestionably out of order in my book and deserves a punch in the jaw. ..... Aha the good old left wing philosophy of 1 banning it 2 you deserve to be punched for your offensiveness... . . Your level of offence taken does not warrant increasing levels of violence!.... That's the starting point, work your way backwards
Anyone calling anyone else queer, intending it as an insult to their sexuality*, is asking for a smack.
(Disclaimer: queer in Norfolk has another, less insulting meaning)". Oh yes brilliant..... Let's progresses society forward with violence as a solution..... Unless it's too women of course which you've been so busy renouncing on the other thread!!. No you mean your violence in the world according to Dee is OK but others you disagree with need a smack  .
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"It gets too complicated after a fashion. The simplest ideas are usually the best. It becomes complicated when individual people choose to blur the lines attempting to force fit an agenda that doesn't add value to a greater cause .... "Not at all, there's a taxonomical category here somewhere - a phylum - that will suit and be sensible. | |||
"It gets too complicated after a fashion. The simplest ideas are usually the best. It becomes complicated when individual people choose to blur the lines attempting to force fit an agenda that doesn't add value to a greater cause .... "I disagree to an extent. Gender identity and sexual identity have such a range of possibilities and possibly combinations that it's always going to be difficult to define in a fully inclusive way. The reality is complicated but at some point we need to realise it's not possible to have a completely inclusive acronym that is actually usable. I'm still going with Not Cis & Straight Although that's ambiguous, I note! Not (Cis & Straight) rather than (Not Cis) & Straight. My head hurts. | |||
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"LGBTQF Questioning and Fab" LOL | |||
"What i also would like to know is why i would have to address anyone as anything." Also very true | |||
"It gets too complicated after a fashion. The simplest ideas are usually the best. It becomes complicated when individual people choose to blur the lines attempting to force fit an agenda that doesn't add value to a greater cause ....
Not at all, there's a taxonomical category here somewhere - a phylum - that will suit and be sensible. "Joe don't go showering me with your big fancy words | |||
"It gets too complicated after a fashion. The simplest ideas are usually the best. It becomes complicated when individual people choose to blur the lines attempting to force fit an agenda that doesn't add value to a greater cause ....
Not at all, there's a taxonomical category here somewhere - a phylum - that will suit and be sensible.
Joe don't go showering me with your big fancy words "Oh eff eff ess! Just Google. | |||
" And anyone using it in that way is slap bang, unquestionably out of order in my book and deserves a punch in the jaw. ..... Aha the good old left wing philosophy of 1 banning it 2 you deserve to be punched for your offensiveness... . . Your level of offence taken does not warrant increasing levels of violence!.... That's the starting point, work your way backwards
Anyone calling anyone else queer, intending it as an insult to their sexuality*, is asking for a smack.
(Disclaimer: queer in Norfolk has another, less insulting meaning).
Oh yes brilliant..... Let's progresses society forward with violence as a solution..... Unless it's too women of course which you've been so busy renouncing on the other thread!!.
No you mean your violence in the world according to Dee is OK but others you disagree with need a smack.
"Yep for purposes of my current argument, that's exactly what I mean. I wasn't necessarily being totally serious, and I was responding to someone else saying the same thing, agreeing with their sentiment. But sure, if it makes things simpler, yes, that's what I'm saying. Being as women are allowed to change their minds, however, I will not be held to saying that in 5 minutes, an hour or 2 weeks. Unless I want to be. | |||
"It gets too complicated after a fashion. The simplest ideas are usually the best. It becomes complicated when individual people choose to blur the lines attempting to force fit an agenda that doesn't add value to a greater cause ....
I disagree to an extent.
Gender identity and sexual identity have such a range of possibilities and possibly combinations that it's always going to be difficult to define in a fully inclusive way.
The reality is complicated but at some point we need to realise it's not possible to have a completely inclusive acronym that is actually usable.
I'm still going with Not Cis & Straight
Although that's ambiguous, I note!
Not (Cis & Straight) rather than (Not Cis) & Straight.
My head hurts."I sometimes get that when I eat really cold ice-cream .... | |||
"I get really bored with acronyms and prefer to just say people. "unless their identifying as a cat | |||
"What i also would like to know is why i would have to address anyone as anything." A very good point. Though if you ever end up on Judge Rinder, you should probably go with "Judge"
He gets a bit stroppy about drtails like that | |||
"I get really bored with acronyms and prefer to just say people. unless their identifying as a cat"Some people do... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKRr94ssnQo  | |||
"I get really bored with acronyms and prefer to just say people. unless their identifying as a cat" | |||
"I get really bored with acronyms and prefer to just say people. unless their identifying as a cat"Or a teapot. I think we had teapots above somewhere. And I've met ponies too. And faeries, elves and vampires/vampyres. | |||
"It gets too complicated after a fashion. The simplest ideas are usually the best. It becomes complicated when individual people choose to blur the lines attempting to force fit an agenda that doesn't add value to a greater cause ....
I disagree to an extent.
Gender identity and sexual identity have such a range of possibilities and possibly combinations that it's always going to be difficult to define in a fully inclusive way.
The reality is complicated but at some point we need to realise it's not possible to have a completely inclusive acronym that is actually usable.
I'm still going with Not Cis & Straight
Although that's ambiguous, I note!
Not (Cis & Straight) rather than (Not Cis) & Straight.
My head hurts.
I sometimes get that when I eat really cold ice-cream .... "Oh brain freeze, yes! | |||
"I get really bored with acronyms and prefer to just say people. unless their identifying as a cat
Or a teapot.
I think we had teapots above somewhere.
And I've met ponies too. And faeries, elves and vampires/vampyres."I don't mind being called a teapot...in-fact I quite like it.... | |||
" And anyone using it in that way is slap bang, unquestionably out of order in my book and deserves a punch in the jaw. ..... Aha the good old left wing philosophy of 1 banning it 2 you deserve to be punched for your offensiveness... . . Your level of offence taken does not warrant increasing levels of violence!.... That's the starting point, work your way backwards
Anyone calling anyone else queer, intending it as an insult to their sexuality*, is asking for a smack.
(Disclaimer: queer in Norfolk has another, less insulting meaning).
Oh yes brilliant..... Let's progresses society forward with violence as a solution..... Unless it's too women of course which you've been so busy renouncing on the other thread!!.
No you mean your violence in the world according to Dee is OK but others you disagree with need a smack.
Yep for purposes of my current argument, that's exactly what I mean.
I wasn't necessarily being totally serious, and I was responding to someone else saying the same thing, agreeing with their sentiment.
But sure, if it makes things simpler, yes, that's what I'm saying.
Being as women are allowed to change their minds, however, I will not be held to saying that in 5 minutes, an hour or 2 weeks. Unless I want to be.". Yeah well I can see why some women deserve a slap!!. Of course I'm not being serious but I see they're point of the argument and due to being Irish I'm allowed to act a bit daft when I put my big foot in my mouth!. | |||
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"I get really bored with acronyms and prefer to just say people. unless their identifying as a cat
Or a teapot.
I think we had teapots above somewhere.
And I've met ponies too. And faeries, elves and vampires/vampyres.
I don't mind being called a teapot...in-fact I quite like it.... ""...short and stout..."? | |||
"I get really bored with acronyms and prefer to just say people. unless their identifying as a cat
Or a teapot.
I think we had teapots above somewhere.
And I've met ponies too. And faeries, elves and vampires/vampyres.
I don't mind being called a teapot...in-fact I quite like it.... "Are you short and stout or are you an alternative teapot? | |||
"I get really bored with acronyms and prefer to just say people. unless their identifying as a cat
Or a teapot.
I think we had teapots above somewhere.
And I've met ponies too. And faeries, elves and vampires/vampyres.
I don't mind being called a teapot...in-fact I quite like it....
"...short and stout..."?
"Bugger off. That was my line. You cheated by using fewer words. | |||
"I get really bored with acronyms and prefer to just say people. unless their identifying as a cat
Or a teapot.
I think we had teapots above somewhere.
And I've met ponies too. And faeries, elves and vampires/vampyres.
I don't mind being called a teapot...in-fact I quite like it....
"...short and stout..."?
"Wanna see my stout-spout.... | |||
"I get really bored with acronyms and prefer to just say people. unless their identifying as a cat
Or a teapot.
I think we had teapots above somewhere.
And I've met ponies too. And faeries, elves and vampires/vampyres.
I don't mind being called a teapot...in-fact I quite like it....
"...short and stout..."?
Bugger off. That was my line.
You cheated by using fewer words."You snooze, you loose | |||
"I get really bored with acronyms and prefer to just say people. unless their identifying as a cat
Or a teapot.
I think we had teapots above somewhere.
And I've met ponies too. And faeries, elves and vampires/vampyres.
I don't mind being called a teapot...in-fact I quite like it....
"...short and stout..."?
Wanna see my stout-spout.... "Are you quite a normal tea pot under the fetching tea cosy? | |||
"I get really bored with acronyms and prefer to just say people. unless their identifying as a cat
Or a teapot.
I think we had teapots above somewhere.
And I've met ponies too. And faeries, elves and vampires/vampyres.
I don't mind being called a teapot...in-fact I quite like it....
"...short and stout..."?
Bugger off. That was my line.
You cheated by using fewer words.
You snooze, you loose "You cheated.  | |||
"I get really bored with acronyms and prefer to just say people. unless their identifying as a cat
Or a teapot.
I think we had teapots above somewhere.
And I've met ponies too. And faeries, elves and vampires/vampyres.
I don't mind being called a teapot...in-fact I quite like it....
Are you short and stout or are you an alternative teapot?"I have to confess at this moment in time I do not own a teapot ..... I know its an absolute abomination of atrocious proportion to admit this lapse of social convection publically.... But I take my tea from an oversized Blue and White Cornish-ware pint-pot which easily holds 17 fluid ounces with an inch of grace below the rim.. A teapot just wouldn't cope against that level of volume ... | |||
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"I get really bored with acronyms and prefer to just say people.
unless their identifying as a cat"Haha! Pets are people too... | |||
"I also do not own a teapot. This is because I don't like tea and don't drink it." I drink loads of tea, but still don't own a teapot. I can honestly say I have never owned a teapot, although my parents had one when I was younger... | |||
