FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Who Creates 'Alpha Males'? aka Do Women Get The Men They Deserve?

Who Creates 'Alpha Males'? aka Do Women Get The Men They Deserve?

By *erbyDalesCpl OP Couple over a year ago

Derbyshire

After a few interesting recent threads....

If boys mainly grow up under their mother's influence, and primary schools are increasingly a male-free zone, why are there still men around who appear to treat women so badly, why are they called "alpha", as if they are better, and why wasn't such behaviour naturally-selected out during the teenage years simply by girls ignoring them?

Mr ddc

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

*drags knuckles along the ground, wipes sweat from over-hanging forehead and beats chest*

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

"*drags knuckles along the ground, wipes sweat from over-hanging forehead and beats chest*"

Interesting question

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

Shouldn't we turn the proposition on its head and ask a) what is an alpha male and b) why are they so successful?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *randMrs Spanish BrunetteCouple over a year ago

home sweet home

What are we talking here? Alpha male as in confident and confortable with themselves males

Or the type that are misogynistic pricks. First type I like second type no way.

MrsSB

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ngel n tedCouple over a year ago

maidstone

I not sure treating women badly makes you an alpha male, it makes you a prick

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *eliWoman over a year ago

What's an alpha male by your definition?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"What's an alpha male by your definition? "

Never understood the term.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 23/11/16 17:26:28]

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *erbyDalesCpl OP Couple over a year ago

Derbyshire

"What's an alpha male by your definition? "

Not my definition, one of the women on the "men sharing their wife" thread implied that OP was one, and I suspect a couple of others who are regularly called trolls would fit the same description.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I always think of the alpha male term as being used by alt-right/red pill/manosphere types.

I also, depressingly, see it a lot on autism related forums.

There's a certain new forumite who I am sure has lots to say about this.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *imiUKMan over a year ago

Hereford

I think that there is probably a world of difference between men who fit most of the characteristics of an "Alpha" male, as defined by er... behavioural studies in primates and twats who refer to themselves as an "Alpha" male on the internet.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

"I think that there is probably a world of difference between men who fit most of the characteristics of an "Alpha" male, as defined by er... behavioural studies in primates and twats who refer to themselves as an "Alpha" male on the internet. "

This is the flip-side of 'Why do women like bad boys?'

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *eliWoman over a year ago

"What's an alpha male by your definition?

Not my definition, one of the women on the "men sharing their wife" thread implied that OP was one, and I suspect a couple of others who are regularly called trolls would fit the same description."

And what's that description of one? Whether or not it's your definition, I still feel it's an important point to define seeing as words are subjective and can carry a myriad of meaning dependent on the reader and thus affect the nature of the thread and stop people from association tangents.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *erbyDalesCpl OP Couple over a year ago

Derbyshire

"There's a certain new forumite who I am sure has lots to say about this. "

I'm hoping both sides do

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

And it comes down to the dark triad of narcissism, Machiavellianism and sociopathy.

Men who score higher on these axes arguably do better in work, the bedroom and life as they are willing to do whatever it takes to get what they want.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I think pooch is the Alpha one here , he does have me wrapped around his paw

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

When in a bar a few years ago with a girl a random man walked over and announced I was an alpha male. I didn't complain

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 23/11/16 17:37:46]

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ingle ex cuckMan over a year ago

chester

Alpha males don't necessarily treat women badly

Maybe there are certain cases

An alpha male creates himself it's a mixture of numerous things

Intelligence

Stamina

Personality

Looks

Size

And so on

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"And it comes down to the dark triad of narcissism, Machiavellianism and sociopathy.

Men who score higher on these axes arguably do better in work, the bedroom and life as they are willing to do whatever it takes to get what they want.

But even then it's hard to predict, seeing as you thought I would score low in those areas

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"After a few interesting recent threads....

Mr ddc"
Alpha males haven't got anything to do with treating women badly it goes on the person,I treat women good and have a lot of respect for them and I treat my Mrs like a princess and anyone who knows me would tell you the same and I don't need to say I'm a alpha people just know

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

isn't "Alpha Male" just another way of saying "insecure, emotionally retarded, quite possible gay?"

This may be my last post ever

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

First you need to distinguish the difference between an alpha and a Neanderthal.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Is society evolved enough for alpha males to be what they need it and want it to be, rather than what it is percieved to be and actually is?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *asokittyWoman over a year ago

Nr Worksop

"What are we talking here? Alpha male as in confident and confortable with themselves males

Or the type that are misogynistic pricks. First type I like second type no way.

MrsSB

There seems to be an uprising of the second type of here

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *imiUKMan over a year ago

Hereford

As merry as the days were long,

I was right and you were wrong,

Back at the old grey school,

I would win and you would lose,

But you've got everything now,

You've got everything now.

And what a terrible mess I've made of my life,

Oh, what a mess I've made of my life.

No, I've never had a job,

Because I've never wanted one.

I've seen you smile,

But I've never really heard you laugh.

So who is rich and who is poor?

I cannot say...

You are your mother's only son,

And you're a desperate one,

But I don't want a lover,

I just want to be seen in the back of your car.

A friendship sadly lost?

Well this is true and yet it's false.

But did I ever tell you, by the way?

I never did like your face.....

But you've got everything now.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"isn't "Alpha Male" just another way of saying "insecure, emotionally retarded, quite possible gay?"

This may be my last post ever

Pretty much yes. In my experience, those who feel the need to declare themselves Alpha Males very rarely are.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Well I've never met an alpha male who didn't do as he was told .....

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *randMrs Spanish BrunetteCouple over a year ago

home sweet home

"What are we talking here? Alpha male as in confident and confortable with themselves males

Or the type that are misogynistic pricks. First type I like second type no way.

MrsSB

There seems to be an uprising of the second type of here

"
Good for them. They have zero chance with me and I bet with most the women here

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *rincess peachWoman over a year ago

shits creek

See for me, when I think of alpha male, I think of the 'daddy' of the group almost.

The one you go to with issues because they have the worldly experience to help. The protector. The one with the ideas, who's gained the trust and respect of those around him.

Just goes to show how differently people see things.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"What are we talking here? Alpha male as in confident and confortable with themselves males

Or the type that are misogynistic pricks. First type I like second type no way.

MrsSB

I see the first type as an alpha male, I also think that an alpha male doesn't know he is one, but many try to be one which in turn makes them complete pricks. I don't think it's anything to do with how they treat a lady.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

That's not what an alpha male is.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"isn't "Alpha Male" just another way of saying "insecure, emotionally retarded, quite possible gay?"

This may be my last post ever

And why quite possibly gay?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

This is the flip-side of 'Why do women like bad boys?' "

I think this could be the more interesting question.... or why women always think they are the one who can "change/save" someone?

because every relationship takes two... so labelling just one side would not be fair.........

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ophieslutTV/TS over a year ago

Central

Anyone who treats another person badly could never be an 'alpha' anything imo.

We ascribe power to others, usually unconsciously and I'm sure a mix of hormones, visual communication, physiology and relationship behaviour all have a part to play.

Some think of aggressive people as alphas but I'd disagree - they're probably c/nts.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I'll start by saying that many men who say and/or think of themselves as alpha male aren't actually alpha in the true sense of the term.

However, with the above in mind, I think that there are many women who do indeed like many of the traits associated with men considered to be alpha males, and indeed even those who consider themselves thus. It may not be politically correct to say so, but that doesn't make it untrue.

I read a book about sexual behavior and it made a lot of very interesting points. One that was pertinent to this thread related to the characteristics often found in men in erotic or romance literature read by women. The male leads in those stories are most often alpha, including exhibiting certain behaviors that most women would openly say they do not condone or find attractive. And yet these books sell, and sell well.

Perhaps many women like this behavior more than they are openly willing to admit.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *icentiousCouple over a year ago

Up on them there hills

Don't think "Aloha males" can be defined by semantic labaling, as every label means something different to each individual.

Now define an Alpha not by identity or personal beliefs, more by behaviour I suspect there is more of a chance of an answer OP

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *eliWoman over a year ago

"That's not what an alpha male is. "

What is one to you? Am genuinely curious as it's a term that has so many different meanings to so many people it gets a tad confusing for me.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

This is true.

If you have to refer to yourself as an alpha male, you can guarantee you aren't one.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"isn't "Alpha Male" just another way of saying "insecure, emotionally retarded, quite possible gay?"

This may be my last post ever

And why quite possibly gay? "

Its about control/lack of control, a psychologist will tell you that anyone that seeks control over another is because they lack control in their own life; because human beings crave the need for control (to have it) hence civilisation..... they begin the process of transference

.... to explore further; when a man (or woman, or badger) lacks control over an emotion or element of their life, they will transfer the negativity associated with a lack of control over to another..... The argument in this case is that the term "Alpha male " is one who assumes a dominant or domineering role (hence exercising control)....

.... so one must then look at what it is that they lack control over and what this lack of control is displayed as.... to complete the equation we need to reverse it; quid pro quo.... How is someone demonstrating their lack of control....? in this case they are behaving in a sexually dominant manner (much like a male lion or Red Deer stag); which points to their lack of control emanating from a sexual cause... ergo, there is something beyond the control (sexually) of the dominant male which is leading to a outward display of sexual dominance.... hence "quite possibly gay"

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *LUKCouple over a year ago

Loughborough

"I see the first type as an alpha male, I also think that an alpha male doesn't know he is one, but many try to be one which in turn makes them complete pricks. I don't think it's anything to do with how they treat a lady."

spot on.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *imiUKMan over a year ago

Hereford

"Anyone who treats another person badly could never be an 'alpha' anything imo.

We ascribe power to others, usually unconsciously and I'm sure a mix of hormones, visual communication, physiology and relationship behaviour all have a part to play.

Some think of aggressive people as alphas but I'd disagree - they're probably c/nts."

Whilst ascribing behavioural traits observed in groups of primates to human behaviour is oversimplistic, to say the least, agressive behavour is a trait of the beta males in a group, the alpha would defend his position at the top of the group, but it is the two or three animals below him who would be the most agressive, in order to change their social status.

They say that the most stressed animals in any particular group are the one second from the top and the one at the bottom...

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I'm not sure if this answers the question in the opening post but, while there are men who are twats who will always be twats regardless, there are men whose twattishness is entirely enabled and encouraged by the women in their lives. It renders me pretty much incapable of sympathy towards them. And vice versa for women.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I not sure treating women badly makes you an alpha male, it makes you a prick"

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *icentiousCouple over a year ago

Up on them there hills

"isn't "Alpha Male" just another way of saying "insecure, emotionally retarded, quite possible gay?"

This may be my last post ever

And why quite possibly gay?

Interesting, can you reference this?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I use alpha because I read a lot of fantasy books with werewolves, they protect and are caring. Care for their 'families'

Amongst other things.

But as someone said people have different ideas.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *imiUKMan over a year ago

Hereford

Signs that you are definitley not an alpha male #264: You have referred to yourself as one on an internet forum.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ultry SuccubusTV/TS over a year ago

London

I always thought "alpha male" is a male who is dominant and successful in every aspect. He might be arrogant and aloof due to his success - a man's man. But I might be wrong.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"See for me, when I think of alpha male, I think of the 'daddy' of the group almost.

The one you go to with issues because they have the worldly experience to help. The protector. The one with the ideas, who's gained the trust and respect of those around him.

Just goes to show how differently people see things."

This.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I'm not sure if this answers the question in the opening post but, while there are men who are twats who will always be twats regardless, there are men whose twattishness is entirely enabled and encouraged by the women in their lives. It renders me pretty much incapable of sympathy towards them. And vice versa for women. "

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

My own thought of an alpha male was on of an individual that is self assured and confident without arrogance. Not riddled with insecurity and needy

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *eliWoman over a year ago

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"isn't "Alpha Male" just another way of saying "insecure, emotionally retarded, quite possible gay?"

This may be my last post ever

And why quite possibly gay?

Interesting, can you reference this?"

Of course;

90, P. (2016). The Defensive Nature of Differing Groups on UK Swinging Sites. Exeter: Hung & Loaded.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"See for me, when I think of alpha male, I think of the 'daddy' of the group almost.

The one you go to with issues because they have the worldly experience to help. The protector. The one with the ideas, who's gained the trust and respect of those around him.

Just goes to show how differently people see things.

This.

+1 from me

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *imiUKMan over a year ago

Hereford

"isn't "Alpha Male" just another way of saying "insecure, emotionally retarded, quite possible gay?"

This may be my last post ever

And why quite possibly gay?

Interesting, can you reference this?

Of course;

90, P. (2016). The Defensive Nature of Differing Groups on UK Swinging Sites. Exeter: Hung & Loaded."

If you think its bad round here, try looking at male fitness forums....

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *risky_MareWoman over a year ago

...Up on the Downs

"isn't "Alpha Male" just another way of saying "insecure, emotionally retarded, quite possible gay?"

This may be my last post ever

And why quite possibly gay?

Interesting, can you reference this?

Of course;

90, P. (2016). The Defensive Nature of Differing Groups on UK Swinging Sites. Exeter: Hung & Loaded."

Haha

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"See for me, when I think of alpha male, I think of the 'daddy' of the group almost.

The one you go to with issues because they have the worldly experience to help. The protector. The one with the ideas, who's gained the trust and respect of those around him.

Just goes to show how differently people see things.

This.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *onny MCMan over a year ago

Crawley

"isn't "Alpha Male" just another way of saying "insecure, emotionally retarded, quite possible gay?"

This may be my last post ever

lol, I really do hope not. It was priceless.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *risky_MareWoman over a year ago

...Up on the Downs

I think there's a confusion of terms - successful, dominant men do not need to great women badly. Fucked up wannabes might

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"That's not what an alpha male is. "

Having seen your attempts to define cuckolds and beta males...

I can't wait to learn your definition for this...

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *icecouple561Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

East Sussex

No I don't think women always get the man they deserve. I do think that some manipulative abusers will exploit certain character traits in another person.

I recall the father of a woman who was repeatedly beaten up by her husband saying she deserved it for staying with him. I feel it's way more complicated than that.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"After a few interesting recent threads....

Mr ddc"

The twat gene can be found everywhere.

It has nothing to do with being 'alpha'. Men who treat women badly aren't considered alpha by people I know, or me.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"See for me, when I think of alpha male, I think of the 'daddy' of the group almost.

The one you go to with issues because they have the worldly experience to help. The protector. The one with the ideas, who's gained the trust and respect of those around him.

Just goes to show how differently people see things.

This.

But then there will be others in that group who try to take him down, try to belittle him etc, but they do so thinking no one else knows about it whereas they actually do.

I always think of a lion pride when I think of alpha male.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ultry SuccubusTV/TS over a year ago

London

"Its about control/lack of control, a psychologist will tell you that anyone that seeks control over another is because they lack control in their own life; because human beings crave the need for control (to have it) hence civilisation..... they begin the process of transference

Only partially agree with you.

People who tend to bully or dominate others usually have some repressed inferiority complex issues.

But I'm sure it can be due to many causes (not only gay).

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *andsonjohnMan over a year ago

in the eye of the storm

"isn't "Alpha Male" just another way of saying "insecure, emotionally retarded, quite possible gay?"

This may be my last post ever

And why quite possibly gay?

Paul you normally write interesting stuff designed to take over a thread but this post is complete hog wash

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *MaleMan over a year ago

Clearly a few people struggling with the difference between what alpha means and s#ithouse males that abuse females.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *rincess peachWoman over a year ago

shits creek

"See for me, when I think of alpha male, I think of the 'daddy' of the group almost.

The one you go to with issues because they have the worldly experience to help. The protector. The one with the ideas, who's gained the trust and respect of those around him.

Just goes to show how differently people see things.

This.

But then there will be others in that group who try to take him down, try to belittle him etc, but they do so thinking no one else knows about it whereas they actually do.

I always think of a lion pride when I think of alpha male."

Yep.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Leaving aside the alpha/wanker debate, isn't it partly *because* they grow up without positive male role models that some men treat women badly?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

My own thought of an alpha male was on of an individual that is self assured and confident without arrogance. Not riddled with insecurity and needy

to qualify:

The argument presented was with a dictionary defined term of "Alpha Male"... it is by no means the only definition and one could theorise on the "why?" for as many interpretations of the term "Alpha Male"

The argument is based on sexual dominance, no other form of dominance is discussed in the theorisation; as this is a swinging site the author assumed that this was the starting point

The term "quite possibly gay" allows for the possibility of "quite possible NOT gay" in that the inverse is always possible

Generalisations based on individual motives and behaviours is poor substitute when no primary data is available

The assumptions made in the theory were done in a tongue in cheek fashion; in that as individuals we have a perception of who we are; other individuals will perceive us in a different way, groups will perceive us another way and society in general will perceive us in a way that "fits" a stereotype.

Now for some a stereotypical "alpha Male" (I used a small a on purpose) is one that comes from a defined acceptance of the term alpha (to be dominant or domineering) and thus as the fab forums are a community (either self defined or defined by mutually relevant activities) one needs to apply the societal stereotype

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Leaving aside the alpha/wanker debate, isn't it partly *because* they grow up without positive male role models that some men treat women badly? "

No.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *icecouple561Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

East Sussex

Also I'm not sure if I've misunderstood because I think it would be out of character for the OP. It isn't being implied that badly behaved men are that way because women have allowed them to be is it?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"After a few interesting recent threads....

Mr ddc"

Partly because these guys tell people that feminism = feminazi.

Also because we were told we can fix people. That people who treat others disrespectfully are just 'sad' and need help, and 'love' will cure them.

There has been so much shit in the media covering mental health (by people who know nothing) and we fell for it -not being experts ourselves.

People grow up under everyone's influence, and in a society that holds certain people as automatic authorities for not much more than being considered 'qualified' and holding a title/name then there's bound to be mistakes.

But the ones who mislead on purpose, to serve their own ends, they're the truly guilty ones. Stupid heirarchy system where everyone has a place based on worthiness didn't help either. Nobody is more worthy or qualified than ayone else, initially, we're all the same blank slates when born. But not everyone is given the same opportunities, and herein is part of the problem also.

Every little thing influences people. The fucked up ones will enjoy their false ego, inflated sense of self that causes harm to those not considered worthy of being the same as them. For the others, they will be repulsed. Many will be apathetic because they're happy the way they are and coping just fine.

You know why these people exist? Because we're told false things about almost everything by people, with issues, who self proclaimed themselves as authorities.

Imo.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *isscheekychopsWoman over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

"Leaving aside the alpha/wanker debate, isn't it partly *because* they grow up without positive male role models that some men treat women badly? "

Nah some are just cunts

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Leaving aside the alpha/wanker debate, isn't it partly *because* they grow up without positive male role models that some men treat women badly?

No."

It was a rhetorical question, I think it is. Note "some", however.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"No I don't think women always get the man they deserve. I do think that some manipulative abusers will exploit certain character traits in another person.

I recall the father of a woman who was repeatedly beaten up by her husband saying she deserved it for staying with him. I feel it's way more complicated than that."

you Mrs N. I'll miss you. xx

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *icentiousCouple over a year ago

Up on them there hills

"isn't "Alpha Male" just another way of saying "insecure, emotionally retarded, quite possible gay?"

This may be my last post ever

And why quite possibly gay?

Interesting, can you reference this?

Of course;

90, P. (2016). The Defensive Nature of Differing Groups on UK Swinging Sites. Exeter: Hung & Loaded."

By who?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"isn't "Alpha Male" just another way of saying "insecure, emotionally retarded, quite possible gay?"

This may be my last post ever

And why quite possibly gay?

Interesting, can you reference this?

Of course;

90, P. (2016). The Defensive Nature of Differing Groups on UK Swinging Sites. Exeter: Hung & Loaded.

By who?

Sorry I used the Harvard Referencing system which only calls for an initial; the author was 90, Pauly.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Leaving aside the alpha/wanker debate, isn't it partly *because* they grow up without positive male role models that some men treat women badly?

No.

It was a rhetorical question, I think it is. Note "some", however. "

Mine was a definite answer

I don't think there's much substance to the argument that men lacking in male role models leads to a disrespect for women. If anything quite the opposite.

It's similar to arguments that kids living in poverty will be criminals/badly behaved when in fact such circumstances inspire many to behave in complete contrast to what they witness while growing up.

The causes for the negative behaviour are more personal.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"No I don't think women always get the man they deserve. I do think that some manipulative abusers will exploit certain character traits in another person.

I recall the father of a woman who was repeatedly beaten up by her husband saying she deserved it for staying with him. I feel it's way more complicated than that.

you Mrs N. I'll miss you. xx"

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Italics are needed too, just saying. Initials are only needed, but 90 is an unusual surname

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It's the ones that think they are the alpha and the omega that I really object to.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Italics are needed too, just saying. Initials are only needed, but 90 is an unusual surname

I can't do italics on the fab forum, but I accept I will have lost 2 marks there and that the reference may be excluded from the final theory as it is incorrectly cited. Now if you don't mind I will resume my position on the naughty step

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *icentiousCouple over a year ago

Up on them there hills

"isn't "Alpha Male" just another way of saying "insecure, emotionally retarded, quite possible gay?"

This may be my last post ever

And why quite possibly gay?

Interesting, can you reference this?

Of course;

90, P. (2016). The Defensive Nature of Differing Groups on UK Swinging Sites. Exeter: Hung & Loaded.

By who?

Sorry I used the Harvard Referencing system which only calls for an initial; the author was 90, Pauly."

Ha ha, I suspected so....

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"No I don't think women always get the man they deserve. I do think that some manipulative abusers will exploit certain character traits in another person.

I recall the father of a woman who was repeatedly beaten up by her husband saying she deserved it for staying with him. I feel it's way more complicated than that.

you Mrs N. I'll miss you. xx"

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 23/11/16 18:57:34]

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It's generally beta male cucks that come out with the "alpha males are just knuckle dragging thugs" rubbish.

Unless you are gifted with a genius level IQ or a god given talent, alpha male qualities are essential to being successful at anything. The frequent claim I here that all alpha males are backwards thinking thuggish types couldn't be further from the truth.

And before the usual angry mob jump on me with "you're not an alpha male!" - I'm not claiming to be... I'm just not quite so bitter towards them.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *imiUKMan over a year ago

Hereford

"It's generally beta male cucks that come out with the "alpha males are just knuckle dragging thugs" rubbish.

And before the usual angry mob jump on me with "you're not an alpha male!" - I'm not claiming to be... I'm just not quite so bitter towards them."

I think they are referring to men who refer to themselves as alpha, and in that case, they are usually correct.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *erbyDalesCpl OP Couple over a year ago

Derbyshire

Perhaps many women like this behavior more than they are openly willing to admit.

I think that's exactly it, and I also see men like that who have many verifications, and so could be considered 'successful' on Fab.

Perhaps as women mature their tastes evolve (both my sisters' did), but by then the negative character traits of the men have already been fixed.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It's generally beta male cucks that come out with the "alpha males are just knuckle dragging thugs" rubbish.

And before the usual angry mob jump on me with "you're not an alpha male!" - I'm not claiming to be... I'm just not quite so bitter towards them."

You have a weird forum stutter - the habit of posting, deleting and posting

You also have a very narrow perspective on life (or blinkered). Why would 'alpha' qualities be essential for success in life? Do women need those alpha male qualities to be successful too?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It's generally beta male cucks that come out with the "alpha males are just knuckle dragging thugs" rubbish.

And before the usual angry mob jump on me with "you're not an alpha male!" - I'm not claiming to be... I'm just not quite so bitter towards them."

If "alpha male qualities are essential to being successful at anything", how do women become successful?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It's generally beta male cucks that come out with the "alpha males are just knuckle dragging thugs" rubbish.

And before the usual angry mob jump on me with "you're not an alpha male!" - I'm not claiming to be... I'm just not quite so bitter towards them.

You have a weird forum stutter - the habit of posting, deleting and posting

You also have a very narrow perspective on life (or blinkered). Why would 'alpha' qualities be essential for success in life? Do women need those alpha male qualities to be successful too?"

beat me to it; but I am not deleting on account of being an Alpha...

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I'm looking forward to how he reacts to the notion of a successful woman

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *icentiousCouple over a year ago

Up on them there hills

"It's generally beta male cucks that come out with the "alpha males are just knuckle dragging thugs" rubbish.

And before the usual angry mob jump on me with "you're not an alpha male!" - I'm not claiming to be... I'm just not quite so bitter towards them.

If "alpha male qualities are essential to being successful at anything", how do women become successful?"

Mate with Alpha males?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Perhaps many women like this behavior more than they are openly willing to admit.

I think that's exactly it, and I also see men like that who have many verifications, and so could be considered 'successful' on Fab.

Perhaps as women mature their tastes evolve (both my sisters' did), but by then the negative character traits of the men have already been fixed."

i agree with this.

this has got me thinking now, but this might be why society, in general, tends to disapprove of older/younger rlationships.

women do tend to realise these men aren't relationship material as they get older, but younger women haven't got our experience. i noticed my ex went for teens after we split up and it probably was beause women my age (i was only in my mid 20s) have figured them out by then.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *icentiousCouple over a year ago

Up on them there hills

"It's generally beta male cucks that come out with the "alpha males are just knuckle dragging thugs" rubbish.

And before the usual angry mob jump on me with "you're not an alpha male!" - I'm not claiming to be... I'm just not quite so bitter towards them.

If "alpha male qualities are essential to being successful at anything", how do women become successful?

Mate with Alpha males?

That was a joke by the way

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"If "alpha male qualities are essential to being successful at anything", how do women become successful?

Mate with Alpha males?

Ooh that's brave...

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It's generally beta male cucks that come out with the "alpha males are just knuckle dragging thugs" rubbish.

And before the usual angry mob jump on me with "you're not an alpha male!" - I'm not claiming to be... I'm just not quite so bitter towards them.

If "alpha male qualities are essential to being successful at anything", how do women become successful?

Mate with Alpha males?

That was a joke by the way"

You say that now....

Asbestos was outlawed in the forums in 2011

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *uperock99Man over a year ago

Milton Keynes

I don't believe in being an Alfa male, but what experience has taught me that if you are too soft with women in attitude then they stray and take you for a ride, I think they like a bit of male dominance a bad boy attitude but not too much

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *erbyDalesCpl OP Couple over a year ago

Derbyshire

"I always thought "alpha male" is a male who is dominant and successful in every aspect. He might be arrogant and aloof due to his success - a man's man. But I might be wrong.

I think it can be either positive or negative traits, my point is why weren't the negative traits suppressed unless they were more (or at least, equally) successful dating-wise?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Perhaps many women like this behavior more than they are openly willing to admit.

I think that's exactly it, and I also see men like that who have many verifications, and so could be considered 'successful' on Fab.

Perhaps as women mature their tastes evolve (both my sisters' did), but by then the negative character traits of the men have already been fixed."

Hmmm. I'm not sure older women don't desire the alpha type. In fact, the women I know who are older probably prefer that type more than the women I know who are younger. Also, I wouldn't class the traits as negative - I think they are good for certain goals and not for others.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Leaving aside the alpha/wanker debate, isn't it partly *because* they grow up without positive male role models that some men treat women badly?

No.

It was a rhetorical question, I think it is. Note "some", however.

Mine was a definite answer

I don't think there's much substance to the argument that men lacking in male role models leads to a disrespect for women. If anything quite the opposite.

The causes for the negative behaviour are more personal.

Fair enough. But if boys are brought up without any means of modelling positive male behaviours, or if all the men in their lives are perceived and referred to as absent or abusive, I don't think it's all surprising that some grow up to be absent or abusive themselves.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It's generally beta male cucks that come out with the "alpha males are just knuckle dragging thugs" rubbish.

And before the usual angry mob jump on me with "you're not an alpha male!" - I'm not claiming to be... I'm just not quite so bitter towards them.

If "alpha male qualities are essential to being successful at anything", how do women become successful?

Mate with Alpha males?

I don't think men of the alpha variety as appears to be being described on this thread tend to want successful or powerful women.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 23/11/16 19:16:20]

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If "alpha male qualities are essential to being successful at anything", how do women become successful?"

I would suggest the ones that make a success of themselves have the IQ or talent I referred to in my original post. In a corporate environment, if they have neither, they have the options of either shagging their way to the top, or screaming sexism and being put in a higher position as a token.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Being alpha isn't a trait. We all vary according to circumstance and environment. It's the result of many traits that may or may not be suppressed at any time.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *icentiousCouple over a year ago

Up on them there hills

"It's generally beta male cucks that come out with the "alpha males are just knuckle dragging thugs" rubbish.

And before the usual angry mob jump on me with "you're not an alpha male!" - I'm not claiming to be... I'm just not quite so bitter towards them.

If "alpha male qualities are essential to being successful at anything", how do women become successful?

Mate with Alpha males?

I don't think men of the alpha variety as appears to be being described on this thread tend to want successful or powerful women."

I refer to my last posting M'Lud

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If "alpha male qualities are essential to being successful at anything", how do women become successful?"

So women become successful by acting like a man, crying sexism or sucking cock

Do you live in a box?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ranny-CrumpetWoman over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

I haven't read everything.

However the title alpha is not given to those who treat women badly.

Mrs. G.C.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ranny-CrumpetWoman over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

Yes. Rather like 'doms'

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *erbyDalesCpl OP Couple over a year ago

Derbyshire

"Also I'm not sure if I've misunderstood because I think it would be out of character for the OP. It isn't being implied that badly behaved men are that way because women have allowed them to be is it?"

Possibly allowed it, or encouraged it perhaps. Obviously I have no personal experience of dating during teenage years, but the treat-em-mean sports-jocks are always portrayed as more successful with the girls than the nerdy geeks.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I was raised by three women to the age of 18, I class myself as a Gamma Male in that I do what needs to be done to maintain a relationshudders, right up until the point that the relationshudders fails....

I have been extremely successful in life; but not by being dominant; but by listening to how something is said, rather than what is being said.

I am "old fashioned" which means that a guest is treated as a guest; in that if I invite someone out for dinner etc. I expect to pick up the tab; however this can be overly dominant/overbearing and I have learned to temper this.

For any relationship (professional, personal etc.) to be successful there only needs to be one thing equality.

Being "old fashioned' it took time to accommodate this and flew in the face of how women brought me up. To answer the OPs question, I often wonder whether men, in the situations described in your original post, who may have been "old-fashioned" like me, feel rejected by society because of these old ways being outdated and therefore the outcome is a more alpha mentality; a complete reversal of what they were taught in an effort to find an equilibrium... time will tell

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *icentiousCouple over a year ago

Up on them there hills

"I haven't read everything.

However the title alpha is not given to those who treat women badly.

Mrs. G.C. "

I suspect memeticaly that's how they are perceived, equally I suspect the world has moved on from that period.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ranny-CrumpetWoman over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"isn't "Alpha Male" just another way of saying "insecure, emotionally retarded, quite possible gay?"

This may be my last post ever

Well ..... if it's goodbye you left me laughing x

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *icentiousCouple over a year ago

Up on them there hills

"I haven't read everything.

However the title alpha is not given to those who treat women badly.

Mrs. G.C. "

I suspect memeticaly that's how they are perceived, equally I suspect the world has moved on from that period.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It's generally beta male cucks that come out with the "alpha males are just knuckle dragging thugs" rubbish.

And before the usual angry mob jump on me with "you're not an alpha male!" - I'm not claiming to be... I'm just not quite so bitter towards them.

If "alpha male qualities are essential to being successful at anything", how do women become successful?

Mate with Alpha males?

I don't think men of the alpha variety as appears to be being described on this thread tend to want successful or powerful women.

I refer to my last posting M'Lud

Yeah I know, I think the point is still relevant though. Those trophy wives aren't often selected for their brains or entepreneurial spirit.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *risky_MareWoman over a year ago

...Up on the Downs

I'm looking forward to how he reacts to the notion of a successful woman

Dems just bitches...

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *erbyDalesCpl OP Couple over a year ago

Derbyshire

And before the usual angry mob jump on me with "you're not an alpha male!" - I'm not claiming to be... I'm just not quite so bitter towards them."

But the aggressiveness of the sort that you often display has been labelled as Alpha on the other thread. I happen to agree about the definition, I just used the term given for ease.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Yeah I know, I think the point is still relevant though. Those trophy wives aren't often selected for their brains or entepreneurial spirit. "

That's a very tabloid view of things. Most the successful people I know are pretty equal in their choice of partners.

Do you think successful women seek out trophy partners too?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *icentiousCouple over a year ago

Up on them there hills

"It's generally beta male cucks that come out with the "alpha males are just knuckle dragging thugs" rubbish.

And before the usual angry mob jump on me with "you're not an alpha male!" - I'm not claiming to be... I'm just not quite so bitter towards them.

If "alpha male qualities are essential to being successful at anything", how do women become successful?

Mate with Alpha males?

I don't think men of the alpha variety as appears to be being described on this thread tend to want successful or powerful women.

I refer to my last posting M'Lud

Yeah I know, I think the point is still relevant though. Those trophy wives aren't often selected for their brains or entepreneurial spirit. "

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *erbyDalesCpl OP Couple over a year ago

Derbyshire

But for a boy to grow up to be an absent father, he needs to have successfully attracted a mate, surely?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Yeah I know, I think the point is still relevant though. Those trophy wives aren't often selected for their brains or entepreneurial spirit.

That's a very tabloid view of things. Most the successful people I know are pretty equal in their choice of partners.

Do you think successful women seek out trophy partners too?"

I would agree about successful people I know. But that's why I said "alpha as in the definition being used on this thread".

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

But for a boy to grow up to be an absent father, he needs to have successfully attracted a mate, surely? "

He can successfully attract a mate while being an absolute twat though.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Yeah I know, I think the point is still relevant though. Those trophy wives aren't often selected for their brains or entepreneurial spirit.

That's a very tabloid view of things. Most the successful people I know are pretty equal in their choice of partners.

Do you think successful women seek out trophy partners too?

I would agree about successful people I know. But that's why I said "alpha as in the definition being used on this thread". "

As in rich meatheads

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

More successful with a certain group of girls. The stereotype is of the pretty but vacuous cheerleader with the treat-em-mean sports jocks.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *isscheekychopsWoman over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

I don't think I deserved the last man I attracted, I wouldn't class him as an alpha male but he was the rough and ready type bloke who liked a drink and go to the pub and watch football..

I found with him that he was never single and always was in a relationship from his teenage years up to now aged 47...

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Yeah I know, I think the point is still relevant though. Those trophy wives aren't often selected for their brains or entepreneurial spirit.

That's a very tabloid view of things. Most the successful people I know are pretty equal in their choice of partners.

Do you think successful women seek out trophy partners too?

I would agree about successful people I know. But that's why I said "alpha as in the definition being used on this thread".

As in rich meatheads

Yup. I'm not sure there's an established female rich meathead equivalent, if there was I don't know whether they'd be attracted to successful men or not.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

But for a boy to grow up to be an absent father, he needs to have successfully attracted a mate, surely? "

if he finds a highly fetile female (like i was) then it's easy for him to impregnate and fuck off and do one before she knows what's hit her.

and what with abortion having somewhat of a stigma still you can see how it easy it is.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *isscheekychopsWoman over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

I do seem to attract the rough and ready beer drinking football watching pub going guys so I'm not sure what that makes me as a woman...

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ollyGWoman over a year ago

Southampton

"See for me, when I think of alpha male, I think of the 'daddy' of the group almost.

The one you go to with issues because they have the worldly experience to help. The protector. The one with the ideas, who's gained the trust and respect of those around him.

Just goes to show how differently people see things."

I have met with an Alpha male and he treated me well, I loved it x

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Yeah I know, I think the point is still relevant though. Those trophy wives aren't often selected for their brains or entepreneurial spirit.

That's a very tabloid view of things. Most the successful people I know are pretty equal in their choice of partners.

Do you think successful women seek out trophy partners too?

I would agree about successful people I know. But that's why I said "alpha as in the definition being used on this thread".

As in rich meatheads

Yup. I'm not sure there's an established female rich meathead equivalent, if there was I don't know whether they'd be attracted to successful men or not. "

I haven't seen Geordie Shore, Only Way is Essex etc. but those sorts of programmes seem to be creating a generation of wealthy women with no discernible talent.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I believe the term 'alpha male' is used to describe the male leader with pack animals e.g. Wolves or lions. The role of the alpha male in the animal kingdom is to make decisions on behalf of his pack/family in order to protect or defend those who depend on him. He is also the one that the females choose to mate with due to his proven strong genes. He will fight with other males to maintain his position as leader and mate, but if another male proves stronger then he will be replaced as leader and mate. So to translate that into the human species, an alpha male may have natural leadership skills. An alpha male could also be the man everybody wants to have sex with, or he could be the man women regard as a good provider. He is certainly a man who will protect his family. He will also protect his position in the family from other men, so that he is only providing for his own children.

Mrs

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *icecouple561Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

East Sussex

"No I don't think women always get the man they deserve. I do think that some manipulative abusers will exploit certain character traits in another person.

I recall the father of a woman who was repeatedly beaten up by her husband saying she deserved it for staying with him. I feel it's way more complicated than that.

you Mrs N. I'll miss you. xx

Who was it?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"No I don't think women always get the man they deserve. I do think that some manipulative abusers will exploit certain character traits in another person.

I recall the father of a woman who was repeatedly beaten up by her husband saying she deserved it for staying with him. I feel it's way more complicated than that.

you Mrs N. I'll miss you. xx

Who was it?

Scarlet I think

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Yeah I know, I think the point is still relevant though. Those trophy wives aren't often selected for their brains or entepreneurial spirit.

That's a very tabloid view of things. Most the successful people I know are pretty equal in their choice of partners.

Do you think successful women seek out trophy partners too?

I would agree about successful people I know. But that's why I said "alpha as in the definition being used on this thread".

As in rich meatheads

Yup. I'm not sure there's an established female rich meathead equivalent, if there was I don't know whether they'd be attracted to successful men or not.

I haven't seen Geordie Shore, Only Way is Essex etc. but those sorts of programmes seem to be creating a generation of wealthy women with no discernible talent. "

I'm not sure they're that wealthy. Only a few of them seem to manage to spin it out into clothing lines of cheap dresses, the rest sink without trace.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"No I don't think women always get the man they deserve. I do think that some manipulative abusers will exploit certain character traits in another person.

I recall the father of a woman who was repeatedly beaten up by her husband saying she deserved it for staying with him. I feel it's way more complicated than that.

you Mrs N. I'll miss you. xx

Who was it?

Scarlet I think"

Scarlet Stars?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *icentiousCouple over a year ago

Up on them there hills

"See for me, when I think of alpha male, I think of the 'daddy' of the group almost.

The one you go to with issues because they have the worldly experience to help. The protector. The one with the ideas, who's gained the trust and respect of those around him.

Just goes to show how differently people see things.

I have met with an Alpha male and he treated me well, I loved it x"

Yup society has moved on from the 60's stereotype

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If "alpha male qualities are essential to being successful at anything", how do women become successful?"

Final paragraph, funniest thing I've read on the interwebs for a while.......

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *iolet2000Woman over a year ago

Ormskirk

Guys that think they are Alphas are in my experience neanterthal pricks.

Far more attractive is the confident but unassuming guy who doesnt say a lot but oozes sexual charisma.

Gets my vote every time.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"No I don't think women always get the man they deserve. I do think that some manipulative abusers will exploit certain character traits in another person.

I recall the father of a woman who was repeatedly beaten up by her husband saying she deserved it for staying with him. I feel it's way more complicated than that.

you Mrs N. I'll miss you. xx

Who was it?

Scarlet I think

Scarlet Stars?

I think so; I promised myself I would remember and then I had dinner and forgot... sorry.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I believe the term 'alpha male' is used to describe the male leader with pack animals e.g. Wolves or lions. The role of the alpha male in the animal kingdom is to make decisions on behalf of his pack/family in order to protect or defend those who depend on him. He is also the one that the females choose to mate with due to his proven strong genes. He will fight with other males to maintain his position as leader and mate, but if another male proves stronger then he will be replaced as leader and mate. So to translate that into the human species, an alpha male may have natural leadership skills. An alpha male could also be the man everybody wants to have sex with, or he could be the man women regard as a good provider. He is certainly a man who will protect his family. He will also protect his position in the family from other men, so that he is only providing for his own children.

Mrs"

Yet the reality is the the alpha ogre on the sports pitch is a hen-pecked pussy cat off it. The man who dominates the workforce secretly hates public speaking. The quiet timid bloke that nobody notices is the one that steps up and takes the lead when the shit really hits the fan. The young bloke that thought he ruled the world grows up to realise his life was insignificant.

The idea we're wired just one way is bollocks.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"No I don't think women always get the man they deserve. I do think that some manipulative abusers will exploit certain character traits in another person.

I recall the father of a woman who was repeatedly beaten up by her husband saying she deserved it for staying with him. I feel it's way more complicated than that.

you Mrs N. I'll miss you. xx

Who was it?

Scarlet I think

Scarlet Stars?

I think so; I promised myself I would remember and then I had dinner and forgot... sorry."

Yes, it was Scarlet Stars.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *erbyDalesCpl OP Couple over a year ago

Derbyshire

"I haven't read everything.

However the title alpha is not given to those who treat women badly.

Mrs. G.C. "

It was the term used elsewhere, but I agree it isnt the best one. Lib possibly had it better with 'Neanderthal', although that might be almost too pejorative to be a useful starting point.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"No I don't think women always get the man they deserve. I do think that some manipulative abusers will exploit certain character traits in another person.

I recall the father of a woman who was repeatedly beaten up by her husband saying she deserved it for staying with him. I feel it's way more complicated than that.

you Mrs N. I'll miss you. xx

Who was it?

everybody else was right, ScarletStars has left.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *erbyDalesCpl OP Couple over a year ago

Derbyshire

But for a boy to grow up to be an absent father, he needs to have successfully attracted a mate, surely?

He can successfully attract a mate while being an absolute twat though. "

True, but isn't that the original point? Why should years be able to be more successful?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Mrs

The idea we're wired just one way is bollocks."

What proof do you have of any of that? It just sounds like a speech designed to make the unsuccessful feel better about themselves, tbh, much like "pretty girls are normally stupid" or "rich people don't have love" - it just sounds like a bitter clichè.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *andsonjohnMan over a year ago

in the eye of the storm

"I was raised by three women to the age of 18, I class myself as a Gamma Male in that I do what needs to be done to maintain a relationshudders, right up until the point that the relationshudders fails....

I have been extremely successful in life; but not by being dominant; but by listening to how something is said, rather than what is being said.

For any relationship (professional, personal etc.) to be successful there only needs to be one thing equality.

That's kind of interesting I to was raised by a single parent my.mother I had to be her little man she would even refer to me as such . I felt my job as a child was to look after my mum and my little sister . My upbringing has made ne a protectorate a nurturer. I to like to pay like you but I also love to take control take responsibility I am also successful owned my first home mortgage free by 27 I don't have a mortgage now ether I have my own business I like women who need someone to take control I like paying the bill in a date . I to never end a relationship I let others take that decision because if I was to take that decision it would be a admission if failure and I never fail .I'm not comfortable with asking for help so much so I never ask for it free I always offer something in return for the help.although I love to help offers with out conditions placed on that help by me in other words freely I hate receiving presents but I love giving them Make of all that what you will people

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Mrs

The idea we're wired just one way is bollocks.

Erm basic genetics

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *icecouple561Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

East Sussex

I think they're successful with a certain type of girl but they're both victims (for want of a better word) of their type rather than responsible for each others faults in my opinion. I think it'd putting one foot on a dangerous path to imply that women are responsible for men's poor behaviour. It's too easy to do that and I don't think it'd true.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *yrdwomanWoman over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

Not every man is brought up by a woman.

Personally I believe personality is nature vs nurture. Someone could be born into the loveliest family on earth, but if they meet someone charismatic as they develop who has unfortunate ideas about race, gender, etc, then all the mother love in the world isn't going to help.

And again, some people are just born pricks.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *icecouple561Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

East Sussex

"No I don't think women always get the man they deserve. I do think that some manipulative abusers will exploit certain character traits in another person.

I recall the father of a woman who was repeatedly beaten up by her husband saying she deserved it for staying with him. I feel it's way more complicated than that.

you Mrs N. I'll miss you. xx

Who was it?

everybody else was right, ScarletStars has left."

. I'll miss her too.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Although on a second read of your dribble it appears you completely misread the point I was making.

The point you make has no relevance to my comment at all.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I have been extremely successful in life; but not by being dominant; but by listening to how something is said, rather than what is being said.

For any relationship (professional, personal etc.) to be successful there only needs to be one thing equality.

but would you class yourself as Alpha? Because I wouldn't describe myself as Alpha (as defined in a dictionary); but have many of the idiosyncrasies that you have alluded to. I define myself as me, "Just Paul" and I am 41 years old, long ago I stopped with labels and just do what I feel is right and proper; sometimes this works out, sometimes I get it wrong, because I am human

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"And it comes down to the dark triad of narcissism, Machiavellianism and sociopathy.

Men who score higher on these axes arguably do better in work, the bedroom and life as they are willing to do whatever it takes to get what they want.

Having had a few bosses like this, I think they hold an illusion of success for a time while alienating everyone around them and ultimately failing

It's a short term strategy that nearly always fails unless they are very smart and or have unusually high charisma associated with the highly sociopathic

Think Lance Armstrong as an example

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *erbyDalesCpl OP Couple over a year ago

Derbyshire

Yes, it was Scarlet Stars.

Her no-nonsense straight-talking will be missed.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Mrs

The idea we're wired just one way is bollocks.

Erm basic genetics

Basic genetics state that bosses hate their jobs, loud strong men are insecure and young successful people realise that their success was meaningless when they grow old?

Again, any proof for that absurd claim? - "Basic genetics" doesn't quite quality as a valid source of proof.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

But for a boy to grow up to be an absent father, he needs to have successfully attracted a mate, surely?

He can successfully attract a mate while being an absolute twat though.

True, but isn't that the original point? Why should years be able to be more successful? "

It depends whether you think the man who has been "successful" in impregnating some random woman who might not even like him is more "successful" than the man who has found a lasting and loving relationship.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Yes, it was Scarlet Stars.

Her no-nonsense straight-talking will be missed.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *icentiousCouple over a year ago

Up on them there hills

"Not every man is brought up by a woman.

And again, some people are just born pricks."

Kant vs Hulme, why v.s and not just include and in the equation

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I've always thought that women have a big problem deciphering between men who have big cocks and men who ARE big cocks! Especially as women seem to regard both as alpha!

Those of us who were brought up to NOT be arrogant narcissistic bastards always seem to be ignored by the opposite sex! Just saying!

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *yrdwomanWoman over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

"Not every man is brought up by a woman.

And again, some people are just born pricks.

Kant vs Hulme, why v.s and not just include and in the equation

I meant nature & Nurture. I have no idea why I put vs in as its a mixture for all.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Mrs

The idea we're wired just one way is bollocks.

Erm basic genetics

Basic genetics state that bosses hate their jobs, loud strong men are insecure and young successful people realise that their success was meaningless when they grow old?

Again, any proof for that absurd claim? - "Basic genetics" doesn't quite quality as a valid source of proof. "

I can see this is complex for you...

The examples i gave were to indicate that people change according to their environment and circumstances. Not to suggest they are fixed in the way you have assumed.

We are all made up of all sorts of traits that will combine in different ways according to circumstance.

Like for example when you see what you perceive to be an opportunity to make yourself look big online you invariably dive onto it. In real life you may well be very quiet, you may even be nice. But this particular online environment appeals to your traits in such a way that brings out your inner dick.

It's not your fault, it's your genes responding to the environment.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The easiest way to find an alpha male is to look at a group of guys in a pub..you should be able to pick him out in under a minute...

The position of an alpha is generally by concensus. It doesn't need to be by aggression or being overbearing. It's more generally by unspoken agreement that one is the 'big dog'. Those that try and enforce their alphaness are more likely to be bullies or higher on the psychopathy scale than those around them. In the sexual realm those of the second type are probably more likely to associate themselves as Dom without any real knowledge of those relationships.

The position of alpha male can also change depending on circumstances. Even within the same group of people the alpha can change if the arena is changed.

Now we just have to sort out the true alphas from the wannabees

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It's not your fault, it's your genes responding to the environment.

Can't you have a debate without resulting to ad hominem insults? It's tragic for someone your age and just makes you look silly.

You seem to have a seething resentment for everything considered conventionally desirable about people and I think you need to ask yourself why that is.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Mrs

The idea we're wired just one way is bollocks.

Erm basic genetics

Basic genetics state that bosses hate their jobs, loud strong men are insecure and young successful people realise that their success was meaningless when they grow old?

Again, any proof for that absurd claim? - "Basic genetics" doesn't quite quality as a valid source of proof. "

Basic genetics in relation to my post is that men want their genes to be passed on to the next generation, and males strive to be the alpha male because they are the ones who are chosen to father the next generation. Basic genetics are that females want the best genes to father their children. Didn't really understand the bit about alpha guys good at sport really being hen pecked etc in relation to the subject of genetics, though of course there are plenty of people who are not what they seem at face value.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *icentiousCouple over a year ago

Up on them there hills

"Not every man is brought up by a woman.

And again, some people are just born pricks.

Kant vs Hulme, why v.s and not just include and in the equation

I meant nature & Nurture. I have no idea why I put vs in as its a mixture for all.

"
Sorry that was the two's theory's debate between nature and nurture, hence it could be a mixture of both nature and nurture. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *icentiousCouple over a year ago

Up on them there hills

"Not every man is brought up by a woman.

And again, some people are just born pricks.

Kant vs Hulme, why v.s and not just include and in the equation

I meant nature & Nurture. I have no idea why I put vs in as its a mixture for all.

"
Sorry that was the two's theory's debate between nature and nurture, hence it could be a mixture of both nature and nurture. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It's not your fault, it's your genes responding to the environment.

Can't you have a debate without resulting to ad hominem insults? It's tragic for someone your age and just makes you look silly.

You seem to have a seething resentment for everything considered conventionally desirable about people and I think you need to ask yourself why that is.

To be fair they did explain and then gave an example.

I'm not sure what else you want other than a drawing in crayons.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It's not your fault, it's your genes responding to the environment.

Can't you have a debate without resulting to ad hominem insults? It's tragic for someone your age and just makes you look silly.

You seem to have a seething resentment for everything considered conventionally desirable about people and I think you need to ask yourself why that is.

No that was genuinely a good example.

Our genes respond to the environment.

Your genes are partly responsible for your desire to behave unpleasantly online.

Your lack of intelligence (but deluded notion of cleverness) contribute to your constant pattern of becoming more and more offensive the longer a thread runs while simultaneously accusing others of the very same.

In the same way you're probably very polite in other circumstances. Likewise many people can be 'alpha' at certain times, but not so at others.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *andsonjohnMan over a year ago

in the eye of the storm

I have been extremely successful in life; but not by being dominant; but by listening to how something is said, rather than what is being said.

For any relationship (professional, personal etc.) to be successful there only needs to be one thing equality.

No I would not but st school I was always put in charge . I was made foreman at the age of 19 . Sexually I'm classed as a dom because of how I am although I hate that term myself. I think like all labels other place them on you while you just go about functioning in the way that feels right for you not worrying about it .

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *yrdwomanWoman over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

"Not every man is brought up by a woman.

And again, some people are just born pricks.

Kant vs Hulme, why v.s and not just include and in the equation

I meant nature & Nurture. I have no idea why I put vs in as its a mixture for all.

Sorry that was the two's theory's debate between nature and nurture, hence it could be a mixture of both nature and nurture. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

Good old psychology - clear as mud.

Although (and this bit isn't responding to _icentious) anyone can be born a psychopath/sociopath. Blaming the mother and/or female teachers for their behaviour is disingenuous.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The hen-pecked sport example is that I know lots of blokes who scare other blokes shitless on a sports field - they're utterly alpha on it.

But off the pitch they're very much not... well not all of the time.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *yrdwomanWoman over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

It's not your fault, it's your genes responding to the environment.

Can't you have a debate without resulting to ad hominem insults? It's tragic for someone your age and just makes you look silly.

You seem to have a seething resentment for everything considered conventionally desirable about people and I think you need to ask yourself why that is.

To be fair they did explain and then gave an example.

I'm not sure what else you want other than a drawing in crayons."

Hand puppets?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *eedsmale36Man over a year ago

Leeds

"When in a bar a few years ago with a girl a random man walked over and announced I was an alpha male. I didn't complain "

Who was the random man.....Julian Cleary

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It's not your fault, it's your genes responding to the environment.

Can't you have a debate without resulting to ad hominem insults? It's tragic for someone your age and just makes you look silly.

You seem to have a seething resentment for everything considered conventionally desirable about people and I think you need to ask yourself why that is.

No that was genuinely a good example.

Our genes respond to the environment.

Your genes are partly responsible for your desire to behave unpleasantly online.

In the same way you're probably very polite in other circumstances. Likewise many people can be 'alpha' at certain times, but not so at others."

You keep talking about my unpleasantness, yet it's only been you dishing out inane insults for the duration of this discussion. You're very angry about something and I'm not sure what it is. If you are the female half of the couple, I'll go with menopause.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

forums are really gnarly these days; I want FUN I tell you; wacky fun!! I wear my personality on my tie and I will have fun!

My name is Maximus Octomus Phallus, commander of the badgers of the west, General nuisance, loyal servant to the true foof, Foofus Foofcidius. Father to no one the CSA knows about, ex-husband to a peculiar wife. And I will have my fun, in this life or the next.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *erbyDalesCpl OP Couple over a year ago

Derbyshire

"I've always thought that women have a big problem deciphering between men who have big cocks and men who ARE big cocks! Especially as women seem to regard both as alpha!

Those of us who were brought up to NOT be arrogant narcissistic bastards always seem to be ignored by the opposite sex! Just saying!

I wonder if that isn't the reason, a simple misreading of how an alpha-male presents?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *MaleMan over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 23/11/16 20:08:27]

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I'm looking forward to how he reacts to the notion of a successful woman

I'm more interested in how chip on the shoulder feminists deal with the notion.

It pokes a hole in the held back by the big bad patriarchy model and show there is opportunity for all who seek it

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I'm not the female half.

I'm also not angry. You just feel that way because you feel undermined and threatened.

You don't need to be embarrassed by it, I understand it's a perfectly normal feeling for a beta male

By the way the menopause comment is twattish, even by your standards

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)