FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Trades in Schools
Trades in Schools
Jump to: Newest in thread
| |||
 | |||
 | |||
| |||
| |||
| |||
| |||
| |||
"Thats why we had technical colleges, which now of course are all 'Universities' "They still have technical collages (you are thinking of the polytechnics which became universities) and they still teach non academic studies from the ages of 16-19. They also teach hairdressing and other things at school but kids still need a basic education and the schools give them that. | |||
 | |||
| |||
| |||
"I watched an interview on the BBC this morning about a young lad who was on benefits and had never worked. What struck me was he could hardly string a sentence together, but his expectation was to get a good job, even though he had no education. There is something so sad about wasted youth. It appeared to me the adults in his life didn't help much, and he wasn't motivated to help himself. His teachers obviously gave up, and his parents did too. Otherwise how do you go through secondary education with nothing: including no aspiration or hope. Would he have been motivated to get up and go to an apprenticeship - who knows. I just found the whole thing tragic." What's needed is a good old fashioned dose of cold reality for some people. Stop leading them on to believe that they will all go to University, get a glamorous job, be living next door to Posh & Becks. They need to know that below that level of earning is a huge swathe of society, the majority, who have mundane boring jobs, who earn just enough to get by (if they are lucky), and have to work hard to get anything, whilst credit card companies, banks, taxmen etc snap at their heels. Giving kids unrealistic expectations is crueller than telling them they are of low potential and will be lucky to get a job as a street sweeper. Tell them, straight, if they don't buck their ideas up, getsome direction and focus, they'll be living in a box under the railway arches. | |||
| |||
| |||
"Would there be enough specialist teachers to teach the trades?" Here they went of to the appropriate colleges that had the specialist teachers. Just like going to another part of the school to do languages ect | |||
"Would there be enough specialist teachers to teach the trades?" I think so look at how many tradesmen are now working in B&Q | |||
"Would there be enough specialist teachers to teach the trades? Here they went of to the appropriate colleges that had the specialist teachers. Just like going to another part of the school to do languages ect" They have this option at the school my son goes to. If a child chooses the option of learning a trade, then they could go to college one day per week and take a qualification alongside their GCSE's. My youngest son is academic and is taking GCSE's at the moment and will eventually go onto Uni. My eldest son has finished a 3 year apprenticeship and is a qualified electrician and earning a good salary at the minute, most of it disposable income. He isn't academic but has a lot drive and ambition and eventually wants to join the police force when recruiting opens up again. I wouldn't say that non academics are inferior in some way to academic children. We all have a different skill mix | |||
| |||
"I watched an interview on the BBC this morning about a young lad who was on benefits and had never worked. What struck me was he could hardly string a sentence together, but his expectation was to get a good job, even though he had no education. There is something so sad about wasted youth. It appeared to me the adults in his life didn't help much, and he wasn't motivated to help himself. His teachers obviously gave up, and his parents did too. Otherwise how do you go through secondary education with nothing: including no aspiration or hope. Would he have been motivated to get up and go to an apprenticeship - who knows. I just found the whole thing tragic." The real tragedy is that teachers are critiscised for 'abandoning' some pupils when the reality is that why should one child get so much more attention than the other 30 kids in his class. One bad apple can spoil all the other good apples in the barrel and if a pupil really has no desire to learn then I'm quite prepared to accept that he must be abandoned to his fate so that the others can thrive. How he is dealt with as an adult will come as a rude shock to his system after a couple of spells in prison. It's a shitty deal sure, but humans are not equal. We never have been and we never will be and any attempt to make us equal is doomed to failure. Far better to take the best and help them be the best they can be. | |||
" Not sure i'm on the correct thread. I thought it was about the time i traded in my "virtue" for a Sham 69 LP. Set me up proper for some real 69's though, so wasn't all wasted education. " Laced up boots and cordurouys huh?  | |||
| |||
"I watched an interview on the BBC this morning about a young lad who was on benefits and had never worked. What struck me was he could hardly string a sentence together, but his expectation was to get a good job, even though he had no education. There is something so sad about wasted youth. It appeared to me the adults in his life didn't help much, and he wasn't motivated to help himself. His teachers obviously gave up, and his parents did too. Otherwise how do you go through secondary education with nothing: including no aspiration or hope. Would he have been motivated to get up and go to an apprenticeship - who knows. I just found the whole thing tragic. The real tragedy is that teachers are critiscised for 'abandoning' some pupils when the reality is that why should one child get so much more attention than the other 30 kids in his class. One bad apple can spoil all the other good apples in the barrel and if a pupil really has no desire to learn then I'm quite prepared to accept that he must be abandoned to his fate so that the others can thrive. How he is dealt with as an adult will come as a rude shock to his system after a couple of spells in prison. It's a shitty deal sure, but humans are not equal. We never have been and we never will be and any attempt to make us equal is doomed to failure. Far better to take the best and help them be the best they can be." Not a sound policy. We're you the best? Of greater merit is taking anyone who wants to improve and improving, inspiring them to be the best they can be. And did you have to remind me lol | |||
"Getting rid of trade qualifications in school,and insisting everyone take GCSE'S.was in my opinion a massive mistake.The problem was that many people looked down on practical qualifications ,and some considered them not good enough for their children. We need to value different skill sets, i am academic,i enjoy exams ,this does not make me better or worse than someone who can plasster a wall or re wire a house,just different. By trying to force all people down the same route we are doing children,and the country a great disservice. And don't get me started on non degrees offered by some universities! "Exactly what I would have written. By trying to be policitally correct and saying everyone should have the opportunity to go to University, we've lost sight of the fact that it's not for everyone and we've devalued practical quals such as plastering etc. These aren't second rate skills at all they're just another route to making your living. | |||
| |||
" Not a sound policy. We're you the best? Of greater merit is taking anyone who wants to improve and improving, inspiring them to be the best they can be. And did you have to remind me lol" I was a truant actually. My junior school teachers all said that I would do well in life and that I had the intelligence to succeed at whatever I chose to do. High school put a stop to all that though as we lived on a rough council sink estate and 90% of the kids there came from rough families with no real incentive to go to school. I did ok in the first year, but after that I got a bit tired of being called a swot so I simply stopped going to school. At the beginning of my 4th year my form teacher sat me down and told me I had no chance of gaining any exam passes in my final year. I don't know if she was trying to reach me on some base level but it worked. I worked like a trojan that year and took on as much extra work as possible. I managed to get most of what I'd missed done and I eventually left school with 4 O-levels and three CSE Grade A passes. (GSCE's came in a couple of years after I left) I should have done better, I know that now. I should have gone onto University (the school made two appointments for me to go to the local 6th form college for an interview but I skipped them both - I'd basically had enough of education and felt it was time to get out into the big wide world and start swimming. Looking back on my life, sure, I have not lived up to my potential and it is frustrating as hell to see kids wasting the chances they are given now because the education system is so much better than when I was at school, even with the problems it has today. Do I blame the school? Partly yes. Do I blame the teachers? No, not at all. They tried. I failed. Do I blame the system? Nope, it was what it was when it was. Who do I blame? Me. ~ My daughter is top of her year and has been every year since she started school. She's 13 now, and I come down on her like a tonne of bricks if I see her standards slipping even an inch. My son is 2 and he's showing signs of a pretty good brain in there but I see so much of myself in him and he has a ruthless independant streak much like I had as child. I'm going to have to keep that in check as the years progress. | |||
| |||
| |||
| |||
"Which is why the Tories are bringing back vocational qualifications. They've recognised that University just isn't an option for ALL students, take this year as an example where 160,000 Uni applicants were disappointed because there simply weren't enough places available. Not all those applicants should have been applying at all but the last govt convinced them they were good enough to go when they should probably have gone straight out to work. Raising the age of school leaving to 18 can only help these kids as now they have to stay on at F.E. or gain a vocational qualification, but we are still going to see some kids drop out and go down the life of crime route that some do today. It was that last group of kids I was referring to when I said some should be abandoned in favour of those that have half a chance of making something of themselves. In a perfect world none of them would be abandoned but it isn't a perfect world and a realist will see clearly that not all kids are going to leave school with GCSEs, NVQs or any other recognised qualification. Some of them won't even be able to read properly and that can't be attributed to 14 years of rubbish education. Eventually society has to look at the student and if after 14 years of schooling they still can't read the only logical conclusion is that they just don't have what it takes." Wishy you know me, im not a politics person, but i do know it wasnt a torie idea, i know that its been going for at least 7 years. I think, if i remember correctly my sons year where the first to do it, it was just being pioneered in some counties | |||
| |||
| |||
| |||
| |||
" Anyone wanna swap Manningham ( Bradford ) High School for a good secondary school in a rural area?" no bloody way!They get us out of this catchment area with a swat team and tanks! | |||
"We have our local Nacro centres in Peterborough for kids who dont fit into school truents or who are in trouble with the police and they are great. But thats it nothing in schools." But seriously, would it be possible to fit so many departments into a school without them becoming supersized schools. I just class all the different places children can go as annexes of the school. If a child plays sport the sports fields can be miles from the school. The key for me is that these places are available to children. If you went to see your doctor and you needed refering to maybe a chiropodist or a speech therapist. You couldnt expect all the facilities to be their under one roof. Also in the cities there are far more than one school each school could possibly only have one or two children that need certain departments. Is it feesable for each school to have a department that is fastly under used or a main department that is full. | |||
| |||
| |||
"I see what you're saying Diamond but it's all inextrciably linked to school budgets. They'd rather have an empty class and teacher sitting there twiddling her thumbs than lose that part of thier budget the following year if they cut the class. We need a more diverse budgeting system where schools allocate their budgets according to each school's specific needs and are given more if needed. Conversely, some schools that don't use all of their budget in any given year should be able to 'bank' it and draw on it in future years should the neccessity arise, but ultimately they'd be in control of their own budget account albeit held centrally. With a flexible system like that we can target areas of high dependency on the state and get those kids educated to at least being able to read and write, and other areas where the kids are doing well overall can be left alone to get on with it with less interference from govt." It does need to change, my son went to one of the best primary schools in the country. Its a catch 22, it was one of the best cause they got lots of resorces thrown at it because it was so good. My son was statemented so he got extra help(which didnt do much good for him) but the reason he was satemented was because the teachers picked up a problem. Now as far as im aware all schools can get help for statemented children but its up to the teaches to pick up the problem in the first place. My son had a lot of educational needs and still has, but if he had gone to a different school he could easily have been classed as one of these "lost" children that there is no hope for. I agree that indivudual budgets play a major role but i also think alot of children go by the wayside because things are not picked up, so for that reason i am completely disagreeing with your comment that you made about the help should be given to some and the others just left | |||
"I know every child is not academic and not every child wants to go to uni and be in debt so why not bring trades back into the class room and get the kids to be hands on. Mechanics, building, plumbing, hairdressing and home economics how to run a home and cope with finances etc. And let them learn and build a trade. So when leaving school they have something to build on and not go straight to the unemployment line. Your thoughts please." lol all the naughty kids end up in the building trade well 90% of them lol I know cause im in the trade myself some schools do let students go collage once a week to do bricklaying, plumbing courses ect ..........well when I was a kid anyway, im 25 now, might of changed think teaching kids about finances and self employment, running a small business ect is a good idea if there looking to go into a trade | |||
| |||
| |||
"I watched an interview on the BBC this morning about a young lad who was on benefits and had never worked. What struck me was he could hardly string a sentence together, but his expectation was to get a good job, even though he had no education. There is something so sad about wasted youth. It appeared to me the adults in his life didn't help much, and he wasn't motivated to help himself. His teachers obviously gave up, and his parents did too. Otherwise how do you go through secondary education with nothing: including no aspiration or hope. Would he have been motivated to get up and go to an apprenticeship - who knows. I just found the whole thing tragic. The real tragedy is that teachers are critiscised for 'abandoning' some pupils when the reality is that why should one child get so much more attention than the other 30 kids in his class. One bad apple can spoil all the other good apples in the barrel and if a pupil really has no desire to learn then I'm quite prepared to accept that he must be abandoned to his fate so that the others can thrive. How he is dealt with as an adult will come as a rude shock to his system after a couple of spells in prison. It's a shitty deal sure, but humans are not equal. We never have been and we never will be and any attempt to make us equal is doomed to failure. Far better to take the best and help them be the best they can be." spoken like a true tory!  | |||
"spoken like a true tory! "You betcha! | |||
"@Diamond Hey, I think you've misunderstood me or I haven't put it across as succinctly as I intended. The ones I was referring to about being abandoned are the rowdy trouble element, not those with special needs. We had them in our class, one kid came from a family of career criminals and you never ever left your bike alone when that little shit was about as he'd have it away. Those are the ones that deserve to be abandoned because any attempt that was made by teachers to get through to them was simply scoffed at as soon as they got out the school gate (which more often than not was directly after registration in the morning)." I still disagree with you, but i will say i dont think teachers have enough time and skills to be able to turn these children around. Some people are born bad, but i believe these are very few. Some no no better because of what they have been taught from an early age. I dont walk round with my head in the clouds thinking that everyone is good and can be saved but i do think in many cases there are reasons for someones behaviour, because something has been missed, because of circumstances. I see a solution to some of it but not all. But im going to agree to disagree with you wishy. | |||
| |||
| |||
"Which is why the Tories are bringing back vocational qualifications. They've recognised that University just isn't an option for ALL students, take this year as an example where 160,000 Uni applicants were disappointed because there simply weren't enough places available. Not all those applicants should have been applying at all but the last govt convinced them they were good enough to go when they should probably have gone straight out to work. Raising the age of school leaving to 18 can only help these kids as now they have to stay on at F.E. or gain a vocational qualification, but we are still going to see some kids drop out and go down the life of crime route that some do today. It was that last group of kids I was referring to when I said some should be abandoned in favour of those that have half a chance of making something of themselves. In a perfect world none of them would be abandoned but it isn't a perfect world and a realist will see clearly that not all kids are going to leave school with GCSEs, NVQs or any other recognised qualification. Some of them won't even be able to read properly and that can't be attributed to 14 years of rubbish education. Eventually society has to look at the student and if after 14 years of schooling they still can't read the only logical conclusion is that they just don't have what it takes. Wishy you know me, im not a politics person, but i do know it wasnt a torie idea, i know that its been going for at least 7 years. I think, if i remember correctly my sons year where the first to do it, it was just being pioneered in some counties" It was first introduced under a Labour administration but it's not something I think we should be overly proud of. I'm told some of what used to be SVQs (the Scottish version of NVQs) are being celebrated as New Apprenticeships and that the two just aren't the same thing at all  | |||
| |||
"I know every child is not academic and not every child wants to go to uni and be in debt so why not bring trades back into the class room and get the kids to be hands on. Mechanics, building, plumbing, hairdressing and home economics how to run a home and cope with finances etc. And let them learn and build a trade. So when leaving school they have something to build on and not go straight to the unemployment line. Your thoughts please." I didn't know what I wanted to be when I grew up. Then my school introduced home economics. That lead me to becoming a chef. Education is far to focused on academics at the moment. | |||
"This has suprised me, i thought all schools did trades. From the age of 14 my son went of to do land work as part of his course, there was building, mecanics, land based(farming). Hairdressing, beautician. Not sure what else there was. But instead of going to normal school they went to the appropriate colleges" My son does a trade course at college, he chose to do hairdressing, he is 15 and has almost completed his 1st year, he spends 1 day a week at college, 1 day a week at a salon, and the rest at school.. His behaviour and performance has improved immensely throughout the year, and really excells at doing something his cleary enjoys doing. I applaud the tutors that undertake these positions as in today's society teenagers are quite unruly... Have heard that this will not be offered to students next year, and feel disappointed as I know how much my son has benefited and matured this part year. | |||
"I think part of the problem is that some kids now days don't learn work any work ethic. Kids are no longer allowed to get saturday jobs until they are nearly 16 years old. By then its a tad too late. I have twin boys of 9 and one is academic and the other is not. It worries me already that the non academic child is going to be left behind and forgotten. I think that bringing back trades would be a fantastic idea." Depends as i have the same but my son (the non academic one) is now a qualified mechanic whereas my daughter (the academic one) worked her way through school, changed jobs several times and still works in an admin type job though she loves it I think it depends entirely on them and their get up and go | |||
| |||
| |||
"At the end of the day unemployment for the young is increasing as there are no prospects. How many unemployed post graduates are there compared to unemployed electricians or plumbers." Do you mean unemployed graduates? I suspect there's a considerable geographical difference but one of the things which has to be considered is that graduates straight from uni are a lot less likely to have spouses, bairns, mortgages and so on in the way unemployed/ redundant tradesmen might well have. Of course there'll be exceptions to both groups. One of the worst things the current Camoron led coalition has done in respect of employment of younger people is the cancellation of the Future Jobs Fund. It was a bit like the internships Camoron and Clegg and their ilk benefitted from but it paid NMW. The coalition would rather some chinless wonder did the job for nothing 'cos it's a short step from that to the reintroduction of slavery. | |||
| |||
| |||
| |||
"That's a May 2010 survey about June 2009 graduates. It's gotten a great deal worse since then "It's pure economics and the rule of supply & demand applies. Too many uni grads chasing a limited amount of jobs gives the employer the power to save money by reducing salaries. A lot of grads aren't getting the jobs they feel they deserve because a lot of them shouldn't have gone to Uni in the first place. The new uni fees should go some way to addressing that problem and no that doesn't mean that only the rich will go to Uni in future because I really do believe in natural selection and someone determined to succeed will always find a way to get there. | |||
"That's a May 2010 survey about June 2009 graduates. It's gotten a great deal worse since then
It's pure economics and the rule of supply & demand applies. Too many uni grads chasing a limited amount of jobs gives the employer the power to save money by reducing salaries.
.................."That'd be applied, as opposed to pure, economics and the problem is that it doesn't just apply to university graduates. It causes the same problems all the way down to (no disrespect intended) lollipop ladies. Whenever jobs are scarce you'll find PhD's working in McJobs, nurses and teachers working in call centres and time served men working as labourers. Is the problem that these people are overqualified or that there's a lack of jobs? | |||
