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Anti democracy demonstrations.
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" Would you protest against a democratic decision in the way people have to Brexit and Trump?" The liberal left know what is best for everyone but cannot get their heads round the fact that the majority are saner than they are. | |||
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" Would you protest against a democratic decision in the way people have to Brexit and Trump?" Would you OP ? And what would be your reasoning behind your decision? | |||
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" Would you protest against a democratic decision in the way people have to Brexit and Trump? The liberal left know what is best for everyone but cannot get their heads round the fact that the majority are saner than they are." But by saying the majority are saner etc aren't you just as bad as your saying everyone else is right and they are wrong therefore everyone else knows best ? | |||
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" Would you protest against a democratic decision in the way people have to Brexit and Trump? The liberal left know what is best for everyone but cannot get their heads round the fact that the majority are saner than they are. But by saying the majority are saner etc aren't you just as bad as your saying everyone else is right and they are wrong therefore everyone else knows best ?" Of course not. And my cattle prod says I'm right. | |||
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" Would you protest against a democratic decision in the way people have to Brexit and Trump?" As much as I disagreed with the Brexit decision, that's what democracy is, right!? One side wins and it might not always be the side you prefer. People need to sit and wait to see what happens... | |||
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" Would you protest against a democratic decision in the way people have to Brexit and Trump? The liberal left know what is best for everyone but cannot get their heads round the fact that the majority are saner than they are."  | |||
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" Would you protest against a democratic decision in the way people have to Brexit and Trump? The liberal left know what is best for everyone but cannot get their heads round the fact that the majority are saner than they are." Where is all this "liberal left" and "far left" bollocks coming from? There are plenty on what I'd call the rational right (as opposed to the religious nutjob right and the scummy right) who were anti-Trump and anti-Brexit. | |||
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" Would you protest against a democratic decision in the way people have to Brexit and Trump? The liberal left know what is best for everyone but cannot get their heads round the fact that the majority are saner than they are."  | |||
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"Burning effigies of your president elect is a little extreme. "Agreed.  | |||
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" Would you protest against a democratic decision in the way people have to Brexit and Trump? Would you OP ? And what would be your reasoning behind your decision? " No. It would be a very poor career choice. | |||
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"Burning effigies of your president elect is a little extreme. "Idiots | |||
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"Hillary got more votes than Trump so I can understand their frustration. Doesn't seem very democratic when the winner got the fewest votes." So would they have protested if the boot was on the other foot? | |||
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"Democracy is great until your preference isn't voted in." Nail on the head People were asked and the people spoke, deal with it Frank | |||
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"No I wouldn't protest the outcome of an election. I would absolutely protest against specific policy decisions, if they were trying to enact them. Abortion laws, for example, if you want a Trump example. You're talking about a candidate who said that not only should abortion not be available to women, but that they should be punished for seeking abortion. That deserves to be protested against. " This ^^ | |||
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"I personally wouldn't protest against the direct outcome of an election, but I do think it's important to protest specific policy decisions. I also don't really see a problem if people want to protest the outcome of an election. It's part of remembering that just because there was a vote doesn't mean everyone agrees with the outcome. The protest is a part of democracy in the same way that the vote itself was. Speech doesn't end with an election. " And this ^^ | |||
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"Hillary got more votes than Trump so I can understand their frustration. Doesn't seem very democratic when the winner got the fewest votes." | |||
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"No I wouldn't protest the outcome of an election. I would absolutely protest against specific policy decisions, if they were trying to enact them. Abortion laws, for example, if you want a Trump example. You're talking about a candidate who said that not only should abortion not be available to women, but that they should be punished for seeking abortion. That deserves to be protested against. " This! | |||
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"Hillary got more votes than Trump so I can understand their frustration. Doesn't seem very democratic when the winner got the fewest votes. So would they have protested if the boot was on the other foot? " She wears boots? My kindda gal  | |||
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"No way!! It's ok when things are going ones way or fear losing , The last USA election was only won by 2% and didn't control all the houses, Here we have a guy who's nailed it, Control all houses since 1928, So now the millions who. Voted for trump are stupid or racist or biggots Give the guy a chance I think he can not be as bad as the other idiots," | |||
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"I'll also add that I think terming these sorts of protests "anti democracy demonstrations" is not only an unfair description, but one which suppresses political speech and itself subverts the foundations of democracy. People should be encouraged to engage in political debate and discussion and that is exactly was a non-violent protest is. In reference to the US presidential election, there are always protests afterwards. There were when Obama was elected, when Bush was elected, and now when Trump has been elected. This year the protests are more poignant because Trump has seemingly lost the popular vote - perhaps that is a better starting point for a discussion on democracy? In the US we have the first amendment which protects freedom on speech and the most protected form of speech under our constitution is political speech. Why? Because freedom of political speech is a cornerstone of democracy. In the federalist papers the founders note the importance of factions in American democracy. These factions help stop the majority from ruling the minority without opposition. The factions have power from their freedom of speech, which is then protected by the first amendment. So, do I have a problem with protests after an election? No. Would my answer be different if the election results had been reversed? No." Absolutely. | |||
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"Have another election, and then another and then yet another, until the minority wins. Then the other side can do the same thing" It turns out we don't need to - the minority already won this election. | |||
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"Have another election, and then another and then yet another, until the minority wins. Then the other side can do the same thing It turns out we don't need to - the minority already won this election. "I'd laugh if it wasn't so tragic. | |||
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"Have another election, and then another and then yet another, until the minority wins. Then the other side can do the same thing It turns out we don't need to - the minority already won this election. "That is the way the US system operates and that has happened in the past too | |||
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"Have another election, and then another and then yet another, until the minority wins. Then the other side can do the same thing It turns out we don't need to - the minority already won this election. "That's not how it works... So let's say for instance over here, you were a Labour voter and Labour won by quite some distance, but then I, as a tory voter joined a protest and then we all started screaming about the majority not wanting Labour, because 4% voted Greens and 6% UKIP, you'd accept that as a valid argument? I don't know you, but I don't think you would. | |||
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"Have another election, and then another and then yet another, until the minority wins. Then the other side can do the same thing It turns out we don't need to - the minority already won this election.
That's not how it works... So let's say for instance over here, you were a Labour voter and Labour won by quite some distance, but then I, as a tory voter joined a protest and then we all started screaming about the majority not wanting Labour, because 4% voted Greens and 6% UKIP, you'd accept that as a valid argument?
I don't know you, but I don't think you would. "Donald Trump has won 47.5% of the vote, with Hillary Clinton taking 47.7% - yet this has translated into 279 electoral college votes for the Republicans and 228 for the Democrats And i was being sarcastic | |||
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"I'll also add that I think terming these sorts of protests "anti democracy demonstrations" is not only an unfair description, but one which suppresses political speech and itself subverts the foundations of democracy. People should be encouraged to engage in political debate and discussion and that is exactly was a non-violent protest is. In reference to the US presidential election, there are always protests afterwards. There were when Obama was elected, when Bush was elected, and now when Trump has been elected. This year the protests are more poignant because Trump has seemingly lost the popular vote - perhaps that is a better starting point for a discussion on democracy? In the US we have the first amendment which protects freedom on speech and the most protected form of speech under our constitution is political speech. Why? Because freedom of political speech is a cornerstone of democracy. In the federalist papers the founders note the importance of factions in American democracy. These factions help stop the majority from ruling the minority without opposition. The factions have power from their freedom of speech, which is then protected by the first amendment. So, do I have a problem with protests after an election? No. Would my answer be different if the election results had been reversed? No." | |||
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" Donald Trump has won 47.5% of the vote, with Hillary Clinton taking 47.7% - yet this has translated into 279 electoral college votes for the Republicans and 228 for the Democrats And i was being sarcastic "Oh right, apologies, I didn't know. The news was saying he won by a landslide. | |||
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"I personally wouldn't protest against the direct outcome of an election, but I do think it's important to protest specific policy decisions. I also don't really see a problem if people want to protest the outcome of an election. It's part of remembering that just because there was a vote doesn't mean everyone agrees with the outcome. The protest is a part of democracy in the same way that the vote itself was. Speech doesn't end with an election. " Exactly. Ian Hislop did a great rant on this recently, saying so what happens in after an election? We all just go home and say "That's OK then?" No. We have an opposition party who's job it is to try and keep the other side accountable. Alas in both the UK and US we have the worst possible scenarios at the moment of near 50/50 votes, which means you have the maximum number of people who are disappointed with the result. -Matt | |||
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"Sore loser's just get on with it I wouldn't cry if it went the other way man up." Yes act like a real man. | |||
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"Lefties act like spoilt children thats because of bad parenting." Twaddle | |||
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"Burning effigies of your president elect is a little extreme.
Agreed. "We still ceremonially burn Catholics - it all depends on your definition of tradition | |||
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" Would you protest against a democratic decision in the way people have to Brexit and Trump?" Possibly - depends on how crooked or unrealistic the promises those who won made. | |||
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" Would you protest against a democratic decision in the way people have to Brexit and Trump? Possibly - depends on how crooked or unrealistic the promises those who won made." Although, tbh, political protest achieves little except to release anger on the part of the defeated. | |||
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" Donald Trump has won 47.5% of the vote, with Hillary Clinton taking 47.7% - yet this has translated into 279 electoral college votes for the Republicans and 228 for the Democrats And i was being sarcastic
Oh right, apologies, I didn't know.
The news was saying he won by a landslide."He has won by a landslide A presidential candidate needs 270 college votes; DT got 279 and Hilariously Clinton mustered only 228 That is the US system on which each and every election has been fought. The losers always quote the popular vote which in this case was 0.2% more for bossy-boots | |||
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"Burning effigies of your president elect is a little extreme.
Agreed.
We still ceremonially burn Catholics - it all depends on your definition of tradition"I'm not keen on burning effigies of anything tbh, it's not the hallmark of a civilised country for me. | |||
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"I think the issue a lot of people have with the Brexit vote is that they were lied to; £350 million a week for the NHS and that we will have to pay as much as we did to the EU in trade deals The other problem people have is that they had no idea as to what would happen. Friends of my parents who spend half the year in France and voted to leave are moaning that their pensions have dropped massively and they may lose free health care when they are out there. There are also farmers who voted out now realising their subsidies are going and areas that voted out now realising that their whole regeneration was built on EU grants The referendum was too big a decision for the general public to make and I think we have a right to demonstrate especially as the government plainly have no plans or idea on what to do As for the U.S. Presidential election, Trump won by a clear majority because he appealed to disenfranchised the white working class who have been hit hardest by industrial decline. Does Trump have the magic wand? No, but he won and if you don't like it you have to re-group and come back stronger in 4 years " where as on the remain side, only the truth was spoken, hmmm | |||
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"Lefties act like spoilt children thats because of bad parenting. Twaddle" They havnt been disiplined properly they are too used to getting their own way all the time. | |||
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"OP, before branding popular protest 'anti-democratic,' you might want to follow the advice of the father of Captain Humayun Khan, and read the US Constitution... According to The First Amendment, citizens of the United States have 'the right peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.' Consequently, those citizens who believe that Donald Trump does not represent the best interests of the United States are wholly within their rights to carry out PEACEFUL protests in opposition to 'President Trump.' The people involved in these protests are not opposing the result of the election. They are not claiming, without evidence, that Trump won as a result of fraud. They accept that Trump will be sworn in as the next president. What the protestors are drawing attention to is the fact that their fellow citizens have just elected the least qualified presidential candidate in history. A man whose words and actions over the past 18 months have demonstrated to them that he in no way represents the interests of their communities. As has been already highlighted, protests follow almost every election. This is because, rather than being expected to 'put up and shut up,' the opposition party is expected to hold the governing party to account. Peaceful protest is an essential part of the democratic system, and a cornerstone of freedom of speech." | |||
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"Lefties act like spoilt children thats because of bad parenting. Twaddle They havnt been disiplined properly they are too used to getting their own way all the time." Twaddle | |||
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"Lefties act like spoilt children thats because of bad parenting." Everyone who disagrees with Trump is a leftie? | |||
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"Lefties act like spoilt children thats because of bad parenting. Everyone who disagrees with Trump is a leftie? " Everyone who goes on a political protest has bad parents? | |||
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"Lefties act like spoilt children thats because of bad parenting. Everyone who disagrees with Trump is a leftie? Everyone who goes on a political protest has bad parents? " Everyone who voted for Trump or Brexit was beaten as a child? | |||
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"Lefties act like spoilt children thats because of bad parenting. Everyone who disagrees with Trump is a leftie? " Yes. | |||
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"Lefties act like spoilt children thats because of bad parenting." That's not generalising... at all! | |||
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"Lefties act like spoilt children thats because of bad parenting. Twaddle They havnt been disiplined properly they are too used to getting their own way all the time."
Anyone needing discipline, apply here  | |||
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"Lefties act like spoilt children thats because of bad parenting. Everyone who disagrees with Trump is a leftie? Yes. " What about people within the Republican Party who disagreed with him. Are they all lefties too? | |||
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"Lefties act like spoilt children thats because of bad parenting. Everyone who disagrees with Trump is a leftie? Everyone who goes on a political protest has bad parents? Everyone who voted for Trump or Brexit was beaten as a child?" No they probably had good parents though. | |||
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"Lefties act like spoilt children thats because of bad parenting. Everyone who disagrees with Trump is a leftie? Everyone who goes on a political protest has bad parents? Everyone who voted for Trump or Brexit was beaten as a child? No they probably had good parents though." LOL | |||
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"Lefties act like spoilt children thats because of bad parenting. Everyone who disagrees with Trump is a leftie? Everyone who goes on a political protest has bad parents? Everyone who voted for Trump or Brexit was beaten as a child? No they probably had good parents though. LOL" Hilarious twaddle | |||
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"No way!! It's ok when things are going ones way or fear losing , The last USA election was only won by 2% and didn't control all the houses, Here we have a guy who's nailed it, Control all houses since 1928, So now the millions who. Voted for trump are stupid or racist or biggots Give the guy a chance I think he can not be as bad as the other idiots," Heard those words a lot in this country too all those that voted brexit are stupid, racist or a big got well I'm nine of those and u vote out. You can't win if the decision goes against what was expected. | |||
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" Heard those words a lot in this country too all those that voted brexit are stupid, racist or a big got well I'm nine of those and u vote out. You can't win if the decision goes against what was expected. " Why did you vote out? | |||
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"Put it this way- you go to a phone shop and they sell you the latest mobile phone on contract unlimited mins unlimited texts unlimited data all for £15/mnth, you sign it and go. When you get home you find you only get 500mins and 100mb data and it costs £40/mnth. Would you not protest? Or would you simply accept you signed the paper ? " We are individual citizens in the context of a group society.Your analogy is a individual consumer. | |||
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"Lefties act like spoilt children thats because of bad parenting. Everyone who disagrees with Trump is a leftie? Everyone who goes on a political protest has bad parents? Everyone who voted for Trump or Brexit was beaten as a child? No they probably had good parents though. LOL" ^ is the only authentic response | |||
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" Lets say it was your mum, old and maybe a bit forgetful, who got the contract and you found out she got conned because they took advantage of her. She doesnt want to make a fuss. Would you not proptest and get it sorted? This is what remainers feel to help the conned brexiters." That would be tough shit, thats the way it works and we werent conned anyway. Most people knew what they were voting for and certainly dont regret it. | |||
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" Lets say it was your mum, old and maybe a bit forgetful, who got the contract and you found out she got conned because they took advantage of her. She doesnt want to make a fuss. Would you not proptest and get it sorted? This is what remainers feel to help the conned brexiters." And the exiters feel the same about the remainers; little lost namby-pamby loony hand-wringing lefties who need some guidance in these grown-up matters | |||
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" Lets say it was your mum, old and maybe a bit forgetful, who got the contract and you found out she got conned because they took advantage of her. She doesnt want to make a fuss. Would you not proptest and get it sorted? This is what remainers feel to help the conned brexiters. And the exiters feel the same about the remainers; little lost namby-pamby loony hand-wringing lefties who need some guidance in these grown-up matters "So much LOL -- twaddle! | |||
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" Lets say it was your mum, old and maybe a bit forgetful, who got the contract and you found out she got conned because they took advantage of her. She doesnt want to make a fuss. Would you not proptest and get it sorted? This is what remainers feel to help the conned brexiters. And the exiters feel the same about the remainers; little lost namby-pamby loony hand-wringing lefties who need some guidance in these grown-up matters "Another who assumes all Remainers are lefties. This is actually really interesting. It's the first time in my life I've ever been considered left wing about anything. I'm not sure if it's people boiling complex decisions down to simplistic and inaccurate assumptions, or if it's that the world has drastically shifted to the right in the last 18 months and left me behind. | |||
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" Lets say it was your mum, old and maybe a bit forgetful, who got the contract and you found out she got conned because they took advantage of her. She doesnt want to make a fuss. Would you not proptest and get it sorted? This is what remainers feel to help the conned brexiters. And the exiters feel the same about the remainers; little lost namby-pamby loony hand-wringing lefties who need some guidance in these grown-up matters
So much LOL -- twaddle!"I said, the exiters feel the same; both sides feel superior to the other Frankly, I couldn't give two hoots as this is not my country and thank Gwad for that | |||
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" Lets say it was your mum, old and maybe a bit forgetful, who got the contract and you found out she got conned because they took advantage of her. She doesnt want to make a fuss. Would you not proptest and get it sorted? This is what remainers feel to help the conned brexiters. And the exiters feel the same about the remainers; little lost namby-pamby loony hand-wringing lefties who need some guidance in these grown-up matters
So much LOL -- twaddle!
I said, the exiters feel the same; both sides feel superior to the other
Frankly, I couldn't give two hoots as this is not my country and thank Gwad for that "No, you also said all remain are lefties. Hence -- twaddle. | |||
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" Lets say it was your mum, old and maybe a bit forgetful, who got the contract and you found out she got conned because they took advantage of her. She doesnt want to make a fuss. Would you not proptest and get it sorted? This is what remainers feel to help the conned brexiters." thats absolute shite, lol, same old with the old, forgetful, again with the arrogance of us remainers are obviously of a higher intelligence, the phone contract comparison doesn't really work does it, if your going with that, then you need to say the new contract is a damn sight cheaper than the other, conned or not | |||
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" Lets say it was your mum, old and maybe a bit forgetful, who got the contract and you found out she got conned because they took advantage of her. She doesnt want to make a fuss. Would you not proptest and get it sorted? This is what remainers feel to help the conned brexiters. And the exiters feel the same about the remainers; little lost namby-pamby loony hand-wringing lefties who need some guidance in these grown-up matters "I'm not entirely sure why you think all remainers are left-wing!? | |||
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" Lets say it was your mum, old and maybe a bit forgetful, who got the contract and you found out she got conned because they took advantage of her. She doesnt want to make a fuss. Would you not proptest and get it sorted? This is what remainers feel to help the conned brexiters. And the exiters feel the same about the remainers; little lost namby-pamby loony hand-wringing lefties who need some guidance in these grown-up matters
Another who assumes all Remainers are lefties. This is actually really interesting. It's the first time in my life I've ever been considered left wing about anything. I'm not sure if it's people boiling complex decisions down to simplistic and inaccurate assumptions, or if it's that the world has drastically shifted to the right in the last 18 months and left me behind."I've been considering this lately and I have a very bad feeling that its the latter. | |||
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" Would you protest against a democratic decision in the way people have to Brexit and Trump? The liberal left know what is best for everyone but cannot get their heads round the fact that the majority are saner than they are. Where is all this "liberal left" and "far left" bollocks coming from? There are plenty on what I'd call the rational right (as opposed to the religious nutjob right and the scummy right) who were anti-Trump and anti-Brexit. " | |||
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" Lets say it was your mum, old and maybe a bit forgetful, who got the contract and you found out she got conned because they took advantage of her. She doesnt want to make a fuss. Would you not proptest and get it sorted? This is what remainers feel to help the conned brexiters. And the exiters feel the same about the remainers; little lost namby-pamby loony hand-wringing lefties who need some guidance in these grown-up matters
So much LOL -- twaddle!
I said, the exiters feel the same; both sides feel superior to the other
Frankly, I couldn't give two hoots as this is not my country and thank Gwad for that
No, you also said all remain are lefties. Hence -- twaddle."They sound a little crazy, so I assumed they were lefties. What would you think? Don't get me wrong; it would have been in my interest had the UK remained part of the EU for just a bit longer until I sorted myself out and returned home Guess I'll now be 'assisted' in my imminent forced departure  | |||
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" Lets say it was your mum, old and maybe a bit forgetful, who got the contract and you found out she got conned because they took advantage of her. She doesnt want to make a fuss. Would you not proptest and get it sorted? This is what remainers feel to help the conned brexiters. And the exiters feel the same about the remainers; little lost namby-pamby loony hand-wringing lefties who need some guidance in these grown-up matters
So much LOL -- twaddle!
I said, the exiters feel the same; both sides feel superior to the other
Frankly, I couldn't give two hoots as this is not my country and thank Gwad for that
No, you also said all remain are lefties. Hence -- twaddle.
They sound a little crazy, so I assumed they were lefties. What would you think?
Don't get me wrong; it would have been in my interest had the UK remained part of the EU for just a bit longer until I sorted myself out and returned home
Guess I'll now be 'assisted' in my imminent forced departure "So all lefties are crazy? Okey-doke -- if we're making sweeping generalisations then do we get to say all righties are bigoted racists? Twaddle. | |||
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"A fundamental part of democracy is disagreement and protest. It's how change happens. Not accepting the result is not the same as making your voice heard that you are unhappy with the result." This ^^ | |||
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" Lets say it was your mum, old and maybe a bit forgetful, who got the contract and you found out she got conned because they took advantage of her. She doesnt want to make a fuss. Would you not proptest and get it sorted? This is what remainers feel to help the conned brexiters. And the exiters feel the same about the remainers; little lost namby-pamby loony hand-wringing lefties who need some guidance in these grown-up matters
So much LOL -- twaddle!
I said, the exiters feel the same; both sides feel superior to the other
Frankly, I couldn't give two hoots as this is not my country and thank Gwad for that
No, you also said all remain are lefties. Hence -- twaddle.
They sound a little crazy, so I assumed they were lefties. What would you think?
Don't get me wrong; it would have been in my interest had the UK remained part of the EU for just a bit longer until I sorted myself out and returned home
Guess I'll now be 'assisted' in my imminent forced departure
So all lefties are crazy? Okey-doke -- if we're making sweeping generalisations then do we get to say all righties are bigoted racists?
Twaddle."No, no, no; only the ones I have encountered. There must be some others who are not | |||
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" Lets say it was your mum, old and maybe a bit forgetful, who got the contract and you found out she got conned because they took advantage of her. She doesnt want to make a fuss. Would you not proptest and get it sorted? This is what remainers feel to help the conned brexiters. And the exiters feel the same about the remainers; little lost namby-pamby loony hand-wringing lefties who need some guidance in these grown-up matters
So much LOL -- twaddle!
I said, the exiters feel the same; both sides feel superior to the other
Frankly, I couldn't give two hoots as this is not my country and thank Gwad for that
No, you also said all remain are lefties. Hence -- twaddle.
They sound a little crazy, so I assumed they were lefties. What would you think?
Don't get me wrong; it would have been in my interest had the UK remained part of the EU for just a bit longer until I sorted myself out and returned home
Guess I'll now be 'assisted' in my imminent forced departure
So all lefties are crazy? Okey-doke -- if we're making sweeping generalisations then do we get to say all righties are bigoted racists?
Twaddle.
No, no, no; only the ones I have encountered. There must be some others who are not "Well perhaps be clearer in your posts and don't perpetuate twaddle! | |||
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"A fundamental part of democracy is disagreement and protest. It's how change happens. Not accepting the result is not the same as making your voice heard that you are unhappy with the result." Yup. | |||
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" Lets say it was your mum, old and maybe a bit forgetful, who got the contract and you found out she got conned because they took advantage of her. She doesnt want to make a fuss. Would you not proptest and get it sorted? This is what remainers feel to help the conned brexiters. And the exiters feel the same about the remainers; little lost namby-pamby loony hand-wringing lefties who need some guidance in these grown-up matters
So much LOL -- twaddle!
I said, the exiters feel the same; both sides feel superior to the other
Frankly, I couldn't give two hoots as this is not my country and thank Gwad for that
No, you also said all remain are lefties. Hence -- twaddle.
They sound a little crazy, so I assumed they were lefties. What would you think?
Don't get me wrong; it would have been in my interest had the UK remained part of the EU for just a bit longer until I sorted myself out and returned home
Guess I'll now be 'assisted' in my imminent forced departure
So all lefties are crazy? Okey-doke -- if we're making sweeping generalisations then do we get to say all righties are bigoted racists?
Twaddle.
No, no, no; only the ones I have encountered. There must be some others who are not
Well perhaps be clearer in your posts and don't perpetuate twaddle! "One can only ever speak from ones own experiences. I thought that was a given In the future, I shall remember to add a disclaimer to each and every comment of mine; that should help minimise the impression of,,, twaddle | |||
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"Maybe not all lefties are crazy, i would say more like deluded and brain washed." Twaddle | |||
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" Lets say it was your mum, old and maybe a bit forgetful, who got the contract and you found out she got conned because they took advantage of her. She doesnt want to make a fuss. Would you not proptest and get it sorted? This is what remainers feel to help the conned brexiters. And the exiters feel the same about the remainers; little lost namby-pamby loony hand-wringing lefties who need some guidance in these grown-up matters
So much LOL -- twaddle!
I said, the exiters feel the same; both sides feel superior to the other
Frankly, I couldn't give two hoots as this is not my country and thank Gwad for that
No, you also said all remain are lefties. Hence -- twaddle.
They sound a little crazy, so I assumed they were lefties. What would you think?
Don't get me wrong; it would have been in my interest had the UK remained part of the EU for just a bit longer until I sorted myself out and returned home
Guess I'll now be 'assisted' in my imminent forced departure
So all lefties are crazy? Okey-doke -- if we're making sweeping generalisations then do we get to say all righties are bigoted racists?
Twaddle.
No, no, no; only the ones I have encountered. There must be some others who are not
Well perhaps be clearer in your posts and don't perpetuate twaddle!
One can only ever speak from ones own experiences. I thought that was a given
In the future, I shall remember to add a disclaimer to each and every comment of mine; that should help minimise the impression of,,, twaddle "Thank you. | |||
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"Maybe not all lefties are crazy, i would say more like deluded and brain washed." Yaaaaawwwn | |||
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" Lets say it was your mum, old and maybe a bit forgetful, who got the contract and you found out she got conned because they took advantage of her. She doesnt want to make a fuss. Would you not proptest and get it sorted? This is what remainers feel to help the conned brexiters. And the exiters feel the same about the remainers; little lost namby-pamby loony hand-wringing lefties who need some guidance in these grown-up matters
Another who assumes all Remainers are lefties. This is actually really interesting. It's the first time in my life I've ever been considered left wing about anything. I'm not sure if it's people boiling complex decisions down to simplistic and inaccurate assumptions, or if it's that the world has drastically shifted to the right in the last 18 months and left me behind.
I've been considering this lately and I have a very bad feeling that its the latter. "I think you might be right. Politics does seem to be pulling to the extremes. Where this leaves anyone with rational, pragmatic centre ground views, I'm really not sure. | |||
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"Maybe not all lefties are crazy, i would say more like deluded and brain washed. Yaaaaawwwn" Yeah they are a bit like that. | |||
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"Maybe not all lefties are crazy, i would say more like deluded and brain washed. Yaaaaawwwn Yeah they are a bit like that." Twaddle | |||
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" Lets say it was your mum, old and maybe a bit forgetful, who got the contract and you found out she got conned because they took advantage of her. She doesnt want to make a fuss. Would you not proptest and get it sorted? This is what remainers feel to help the conned brexiters. And the exiters feel the same about the remainers; little lost namby-pamby loony hand-wringing lefties who need some guidance in these grown-up matters
Another who assumes all Remainers are lefties. This is actually really interesting. It's the first time in my life I've ever been considered left wing about anything. I'm not sure if it's people boiling complex decisions down to simplistic and inaccurate assumptions, or if it's that the world has drastically shifted to the right in the last 18 months and left me behind.
I've been considering this lately and I have a very bad feeling that its the latter. "I feel so too and, worryingly, it started with the growth of ISIS. | |||
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" Lets say it was your mum, old and maybe a bit forgetful, who got the contract and you found out she got conned because they took advantage of her. She doesnt want to make a fuss. Would you not proptest and get it sorted? This is what remainers feel to help the conned brexiters. And the exiters feel the same about the remainers; little lost namby-pamby loony hand-wringing lefties who need some guidance in these grown-up matters
Another who assumes all Remainers are lefties. This is actually really interesting. It's the first time in my life I've ever been considered left wing about anything. I'm not sure if it's people boiling complex decisions down to simplistic and inaccurate assumptions, or if it's that the world has drastically shifted to the right in the last 18 months and left me behind.
I've been considering this lately and I have a very bad feeling that its the latter.
I feel so too and, worryingly, it started with the growth of ISIS.
"I don't know about that. Political scientists have been writing articles about the rise of nationalistic right wing movements since the 80's. I think Isis is a foil, not a cause. | |||
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" Lets say it was your mum, old and maybe a bit forgetful, who got the contract and you found out she got conned because they took advantage of her. She doesnt want to make a fuss. Would you not proptest and get it sorted? This is what remainers feel to help the conned brexiters. And the exiters feel the same about the remainers; little lost namby-pamby loony hand-wringing lefties who need some guidance in these grown-up matters
Another who assumes all Remainers are lefties. This is actually really interesting. It's the first time in my life I've ever been considered left wing about anything. I'm not sure if it's people boiling complex decisions down to simplistic and inaccurate assumptions, or if it's that the world has drastically shifted to the right in the last 18 months and left me behind.
I've been considering this lately and I have a very bad feeling that its the latter.
I feel so too and, worryingly, it started with the growth of ISIS.
"Agreed, and with it this insidious "official" legitimisation of open racism, homophobia, xenophobia etc. And the white privileged and entitled sporting a "won't it be interesting/exciting to watch it play out as it could be the end to neoliberalism". That's lovely, you watch from your safe place while women get their contraception taken away and abortion rights removed, even more black people get slaughtered, same-sex attracted kids get electro-shock treatment and conversion therapy, poor people get their medical insurance taken away, trans people die by murder and suicide, muslims get abused assaulted and deported and rape culture is escalated. *Exciting!* | |||
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"To test if someone is a liberal leftie put on your casual clothes: shake their cage and note the result. Put on a suit and repeat the procudure. If the effect us significantly greater you have a confirmed case." Twaddle | |||
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"Hilarious Twaddle"
10 points to gryffindor for that one! | |||
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" Lets say it was your mum, old and maybe a bit forgetful, who got the contract and you found out she got conned because they took advantage of her. She doesnt want to make a fuss. Would you not proptest and get it sorted? This is what remainers feel to help the conned brexiters. And the exiters feel the same about the remainers; little lost namby-pamby loony hand-wringing lefties who need some guidance in these grown-up matters
Another who assumes all Remainers are lefties. This is actually really interesting. It's the first time in my life I've ever been considered left wing about anything. I'm not sure if it's people boiling complex decisions down to simplistic and inaccurate assumptions, or if it's that the world has drastically shifted to the right in the last 18 months and left me behind.
I've been considering this lately and I have a very bad feeling that its the latter.
I think you might be right. Politics does seem to be pulling to the extremes. Where this leaves anyone with rational, pragmatic centre ground views, I'm really not sure."Possibly like standing in the middle of the road, you get run over by both sides. | |||
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" I think you might be right. Politics does seem to be pulling to the extremes. Where this leaves anyone with rational, pragmatic centre ground views, I'm really not sure." For what it's worth - I'm radical centrist and get accused of being the leftist of extreme left-wingers all the time. Which I think says the most about the people who insist on trying to label me just because I think that women should have equal rights and shizz. | |||
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" Would you protest against a democratic decision in the way people have to Brexit and Trump? The liberal left know what is best for everyone but cannot get their heads round the fact that the majority are saner than they are. But by saying the majority are saner etc aren't you just as bad as your saying everyone else is right and they are wrong therefore everyone else knows best ? Of course not. And my cattle prod says I'm right." You actually look like trump. | |||
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" I think you might be right. Politics does seem to be pulling to the extremes. Where this leaves anyone with rational, pragmatic centre ground views, I'm really not sure. For what it's worth - I'm radical centrist and get accused of being the leftist of extreme left-wingers all the time. Which I think says the most about the people who insist on trying to label me just because I think that women should have equal rights and shizz." | |||
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"No its totally embarrassing. I think it was Churchill that said "the anti fascists of today are the fascists of tomorrow" and he was absolutely right. " Well, he would know. | |||
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" I think you might be right. Politics does seem to be pulling to the extremes. Where this leaves anyone with rational, pragmatic centre ground views, I'm really not sure. For what it's worth - I'm radical centrist and get accused of being the leftist of extreme left-wingers all the time. Which I think says the most about the people who insist on trying to label me just because I think that women should have equal rights and shizz." Oh definitely. I just seem to swing from being called Tory scum for not thinking Corbyn is a suitable leader of the Labour Party to being called "far Left" purely for voting Remain and thinking a Trump presidency is an appalling idea. | |||
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"We wouldn't protest at a democratic decision, even if it went completely against our personal beliefs. We would try to understand it , as hard as that might be" Again, these people aren't protesting against the election itself. They aren't claiming that the votes were rigged, or that intimidation was employed against minority voters. They're simply voicing their objection to the suitability of Donald Trump as the head of the Executive Branch of the US government and the Commander-in-Chief of the US military... Given that Trump has no political or military experience, and has demonstrated a complete ignorance of the workings of domestic and foreign policy, that's hardly surprising... | |||
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" I think you might be right. Politics does seem to be pulling to the extremes. Where this leaves anyone with rational, pragmatic centre ground views, I'm really not sure. For what it's worth - I'm radical centrist and get accused of being the leftist of extreme left-wingers all the time. Which I think says the most about the people who insist on trying to label me just because I think that women should have equal rights and shizz. Oh definitely. I just seem to swing from being called Tory scum for not thinking Corbyn is a suitable leader of the Labour Party to being called "far Left" purely for voting Remain and thinking a Trump presidency is an appalling idea. " Ruby, it's very unfair of you to not fit neatly in one box so that people can make sweeping generalisations about your parents. Pfffft. Please try harder. | |||
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" Lets say it was your mum, old and maybe a bit forgetful, who got the contract and you found out she got conned because they took advantage of her. She doesnt want to make a fuss. Would you not proptest and get it sorted? This is what remainers feel to help the conned brexiters. And the exiters feel the same about the remainers; little lost namby-pamby loony hand-wringing lefties who need some guidance in these grown-up matters
Another who assumes all Remainers are lefties. This is actually really interesting. It's the first time in my life I've ever been considered left wing about anything. I'm not sure if it's people boiling complex decisions down to simplistic and inaccurate assumptions, or if it's that the world has drastically shifted to the right in the last 18 months and left me behind.
I've been considering this lately and I have a very bad feeling that its the latter.
I feel so too and, worryingly, it started with the growth of ISIS.
Agreed, and with it this insidious "official" legitimisation of open racism, homophobia, xenophobia etc. And the white privileged and entitled sporting a "won't it be interesting/exciting to watch it play out as it could be the end to neoliberalism". That's lovely, you watch from your safe place while women get their contraception taken away and abortion rights removed, even more black people get slaughtered, same-sex attracted kids get electro-shock treatment and conversion therapy, poor people get their medical insurance taken away, trans people die by murder and suicide, muslims get abused assaulted and deported and rape culture is escalated. *Exciting!*"Dont you think youre being slightly melodramatic. | |||
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" Lets say it was your mum, old and maybe a bit forgetful, who got the contract and you found out she got conned because they took advantage of her. She doesnt want to make a fuss. Would you not proptest and get it sorted? This is what remainers feel to help the conned brexiters. And the exiters feel the same about the remainers; little lost namby-pamby loony hand-wringing lefties who need some guidance in these grown-up matters
Another who assumes all Remainers are lefties. This is actually really interesting. It's the first time in my life I've ever been considered left wing about anything. I'm not sure if it's people boiling complex decisions down to simplistic and inaccurate assumptions, or if it's that the world has drastically shifted to the right in the last 18 months and left me behind.
I've been considering this lately and I have a very bad feeling that its the latter.
I feel so too and, worryingly, it started with the growth of ISIS.
Agreed, and with it this insidious "official" legitimisation of open racism, homophobia, xenophobia etc. And the white privileged and entitled sporting a "won't it be interesting/exciting to watch it play out as it could be the end to neoliberalism". That's lovely, you watch from your safe place while women get their contraception taken away and abortion rights removed, even more black people get slaughtered, same-sex attracted kids get electro-shock treatment and conversion therapy, poor people get their medical insurance taken away, trans people die by murder and suicide, muslims get abused assaulted and deported and rape culture is escalated. *Exciting!*
Dont you think youre being slightly melodramatic."No. | |||
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"We wouldn't protest at a democratic decision, even if it went completely against our personal beliefs. We would try to understand it , as hard as that might be Again, these people aren't protesting against the election itself. They aren't claiming that the votes were rigged, or that intimidation was employed against minority voters. They're simply voicing their objection to the suitability of Donald Trump as the head of the Executive Branch of the US government and the Commander-in-Chief of the US military... Given that Trump has no political or military experience, and has demonstrated a complete ignorance of the workings of domestic and foreign policy, that's hardly surprising..." In that case, they could have voted for the other guy instead; silly to vote for someone whose policies one does not agree with and then protest against them | |||
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" and rape culture is escalated. *Exciting!*" Are you referring to the mass sexual assaults in Germany by Donald Trump's supporters? Twaddle | |||
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"We wouldn't protest at a democratic decision, even if it went completely against our personal beliefs. We would try to understand it , as hard as that might be Again, these people aren't protesting against the election itself. They aren't claiming that the votes were rigged, or that intimidation was employed against minority voters. They're simply voicing their objection to the suitability of Donald Trump as the head of the Executive Branch of the US government and the Commander-in-Chief of the US military... Given that Trump has no political or military experience, and has demonstrated a complete ignorance of the workings of domestic and foreign policy, that's hardly surprising... In that case, they could have voted for the other guy instead; silly to vote for someone whose policies one does not agree with and then protest against them" Sorry, are the people demonstrating and voicing their non-support of Trump the ones that voted for him? Is that what you're suggesting. Slight whiff of twaddle there. | |||
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"Maybe not all lefties are crazy, i would say more like deluded and brain washed." Whereas righties are generally and historically supremicists. | |||
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" and rape culture is escalated. *Exciting!* Are you referring to the mass sexual assaults in Germany by Donald Trump's supporters? Twaddle "I'm making a future prediction! Twaddle free, as it's an opinion! | |||
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" and rape culture is escalated. *Exciting!* Are you referring to the mass sexual assaults in Germany by Donald Trump's supporters? Twaddle
I'm making a future prediction! Twaddle free, as it's an opinion! "My twaddle! | |||
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"We wouldn't protest at a democratic decision, even if it went completely against our personal beliefs. We would try to understand it , as hard as that might be Again, these people aren't protesting against the election itself. They aren't claiming that the votes were rigged, or that intimidation was employed against minority voters. They're simply voicing their objection to the suitability of Donald Trump as the head of the Executive Branch of the US government and the Commander-in-Chief of the US military... Given that Trump has no political or military experience, and has demonstrated a complete ignorance of the workings of domestic and foreign policy, that's hardly surprising... In that case, they could have voted for the other guy instead; silly to vote for someone whose policies one does not agree with and then protest against them Sorry, are the people demonstrating and voicing their non-support of Trump the ones that voted for him? Is that what you're suggesting. Slight whiff of twaddle there. " Erm, so what was it? He won fairly and squarely and these lefties/midfielders don't like that?
Fair enough; they can burn more effigies, smash more shop windows and throw missiles at riot police. All very democratic | |||
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"Protesting isn't anti-democratic. It's free speech. Anti-democractic would be starting a civil war and removing Trump/over-turning Brexit by force. Kind of baffled why people conflate these two things." I know!! | |||
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"We wouldn't protest at a democratic decision, even if it went completely against our personal beliefs. We would try to understand it , as hard as that might be Again, these people aren't protesting against the election itself. They aren't claiming that the votes were rigged, or that intimidation was employed against minority voters. They're simply voicing their objection to the suitability of Donald Trump as the head of the Executive Branch of the US government and the Commander-in-Chief of the US military... Given that Trump has no political or military experience, and has demonstrated a complete ignorance of the workings of domestic and foreign policy, that's hardly surprising... In that case, they could have voted for the other guy instead; silly to vote for someone whose policies one does not agree with and then protest against them Sorry, are the people demonstrating and voicing their non-support of Trump the ones that voted for him? Is that what you're suggesting. Slight whiff of twaddle there. Erm, so what was it? He won fairly and squarely and these lefties/midfielders don't like that?
Fair enough; they can burn more effigies, smash more shop windows and throw missiles at riot police. All very democratic"I'm just trying to untangle your insinuation that the people demonstrating are those that voted for Trump. Fear you weren't making the point you meant to make, which you have every right to make, but the point you did make made no sense. | |||
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"Absolutely I would in every way as democracy, which I do believe is the best system we have at the moment, is also deeply flawed. It allows those who promote policies that appeal to people's fear, anger and indignation to use the system to gain power, utilising a mix of misinformation and emotive lies. Of course intolerance and injustice ought to be fought, at every turn and not just blindly accepted as the 'will of the people'. I would not begrudge those who hold opinions contrary to mine the forum in which to air those views or show their displeasure, whether that be through marches, protests or petitions. I would condemn violence on either side. So no, votes are not sacred and just because you lose a battle does not mean you lay down your weapons and surrender. " | |||
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"We wouldn't protest at a democratic decision, even if it went completely against our personal beliefs. We would try to understand it , as hard as that might be Again, these people aren't protesting against the election itself. They aren't claiming that the votes were rigged, or that intimidation was employed against minority voters. They're simply voicing their objection to the suitability of Donald Trump as the head of the Executive Branch of the US government and the Commander-in-Chief of the US military... Given that Trump has no political or military experience, and has demonstrated a complete ignorance of the workings of domestic and foreign policy, that's hardly surprising... In that case, they could have voted for the other guy instead; silly to vote for someone whose policies one does not agree with and then protest against them Sorry, are the people demonstrating and voicing their non-support of Trump the ones that voted for him? Is that what you're suggesting. Slight whiff of twaddle there. Erm, so what was it? He won fairly and squarely and these lefties/midfielders don't like that?
Fair enough; they can burn more effigies, smash more shop windows and throw missiles at riot police. All very democratic"I suspect that what people have a problem is that he didn't win 'fair and squarely'. The Electoral College system was set up in the 1800s specifically so that white men could stay in power, even if challenged. It was set up to do exactly what it did in this election - make the white man get in even if someone else gets more votes and is more popular. So unsurprisingly, lots of people are going 'hang on, is this really how a modern democracy should look? Perhaps we need to look at this...' Many are also angry because they feel that the house will not protect them (as it has in the past - like when it blocked almost everything Obama tried to enact), because they believe that the democratic minority will simply try to ride it out with as little trouble as possible so that they still keep their place for when the next election comes round. | |||
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" Would you protest against a democratic decision in the way people have to Brexit and Trump?" As you say it was a democratic decision and should be respected. . from what I see broadcast on the news its young students, mostly spoiled brats that are doing the protests | |||
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" Would you protest against a democratic decision in the way people have to Brexit and Trump? As you say it was a democratic decision and should be respected. . from what I see broadcast on the news its young students, mostly spoiled brats that are doing the protests" Just for clarity - is it the 'being a student' that makes you a spoiled brat or something else? (Yours sincerely, a student.) | |||
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" Would you protest against a democratic decision in the way people have to Brexit and Trump? As you say it was a democratic decision and should be respected. . from what I see broadcast on the news its young students, mostly spoiled brats that are doing the protests Just for clarity - is it the 'being a student' that makes you a spoiled brat or something else? (Yours sincerely, a student.)"  and  | |||
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" Would you protest against a democratic decision in the way people have to Brexit and Trump? As you say it was a democratic decision and should be respected. . from what I see broadcast on the news its young students, mostly spoiled brats that are doing the protests" You only see students if the protest starts in the afternoon  | |||
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" Would you protest against a democratic decision in the way people have to Brexit and Trump? As you say it was a democratic decision and should be respected. . from what I see broadcast on the news its young students, mostly spoiled brats that are doing the protests" | |||
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" Would you protest against a democratic decision in the way people have to Brexit and Trump? As you say it was a democratic decision and should be respected. . from what I see broadcast on the news its young students, mostly spoiled brats that are doing the protests" The march that Nigel Farage is proposing, how do you feel about that one? Ignorant old men and thuggy chavs protesting against the verdict of British judges, or something else? I'd just like to understand whether you're being consistent. | |||
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"Anyway, if someone wants to read something very pertinent to this discussion, at least for the Presidential election, I would highly recommend the last paragraph of Federalist 51 (it was one of the Federalist papers). I think it offers great insight into the usefulness of protests, even protests against democratically elected ideas and people. It doesn't explain the Brexit protests because it is specific to American democracy, but it is pertinent and recommended if we want to discuss political theory rather than anecdotal experience. " Is it easy to locate online? Sounds very interesting, thank you. | |||
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" Would you protest against a democratic decision in the way people have to Brexit and Trump? As you say it was a democratic decision and should be respected. . from what I see broadcast on the news its young students, mostly spoiled brats that are doing the protests The march that Nigel Farage is proposing, how do you feel about that one? Ignorant old men and thuggy chavs protesting against the verdict of British judges, or something else? I'd just like to understand whether you're being consistent. " Good point. | |||
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"He won fairly and squarely and these lefties/midfielders don't like that?
Fair enough; they can burn more effigies, smash more shop windows and throw missiles at riot police. All very democratic"Right. Let's get this straight. Are the protestors who are burning Trump in effigy actually threatening or assaulting their fellow citizens? If not, then said protests still qualify as PEACEABLE ASSEMBLY. As for those protestors who are causing criminal damage to property or throwing missiles at police, they should rightly be arrested and prosecuted to the full extent of the law. HOWEVER, such people represent only a tiny minority of those who are protesting against President Trump. The vast majority of protests being organised across the US are PEACEFUL. Consequently, they are exercising nothing more or less than their democratic rights. | |||
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" Would you protest against a democratic decision in the way people have to Brexit and Trump? As you say it was a democratic decision and should be respected. . from what I see broadcast on the news its young students, mostly spoiled brats that are doing the protests The march that Nigel Farage is proposing, how do you feel about that one? Ignorant old men and thuggy chavs protesting against the verdict of British judges, or something else? I'd just like to understand whether you're being consistent. " "old men and thuggy chavs" How do you know the demographic of the march before it happens, or are you just clumsily trying to stir things up again? | |||
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"He won fairly and squarely and these lefties/midfielders don't like that?
Fair enough; they can burn more effigies, smash more shop windows and throw missiles at riot police. All very democratic
Right. Let's get this straight. Are the protestors who are burning Trump in effigy actually threatening or assaulting their fellow citizens?
If not, then said protests still qualify as PEACEABLE ASSEMBLY.
As for those protestors who are causing criminal damage to property or throwing missiles at police, they should rightly be arrested and prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
HOWEVER, such people represent only a tiny minority of those who are protesting against President Trump.
The vast majority of protests being organised across the US are PEACEFUL. Consequently, they are exercising nothing more or less than their democratic rights. " | |||
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"We wouldn't protest at a democratic decision, even if it went completely against our personal beliefs. We would try to understand it , as hard as that might be Again, these people aren't protesting against the election itself. They aren't claiming that the votes were rigged, or that intimidation was employed against minority voters. They're simply voicing their objection to the suitability of Donald Trump as the head of the Executive Branch of the US government and the Commander-in-Chief of the US military... Given that Trump has no political or military experience, and has demonstrated a complete ignorance of the workings of domestic and foreign policy, that's hardly surprising... In that case, they could have voted for the other guy instead; silly to vote for someone whose policies one does not agree with and then protest against them Sorry, are the people demonstrating and voicing their non-support of Trump the ones that voted for him? Is that what you're suggesting. Slight whiff of twaddle there. Erm, so what was it? He won fairly and squarely and these lefties/midfielders don't like that?
Fair enough; they can burn more effigies, smash more shop windows and throw missiles at riot police. All very democratic
I suspect that what people have a problem is that he didn't win 'fair and squarely'.
The Electoral College system was set up in the 1800s specifically so that white men could stay in power, even if challenged. It was set up to do exactly what it did in this election - make the white man get in even if someone else gets more votes and is more popular.
So unsurprisingly, lots of people are going 'hang on, is this really how a modern democracy should look? Perhaps we need to look at this...'
Many are also angry because they feel that the house will not protect them (as it has in the past - like when it blocked almost everything Obama tried to enact), because they believe that the democratic minority will simply try to ride it out with as little trouble as possible so that they still keep their place for when the next election comes round.
"I don't buy that. The electoral system is what it is and has been so when Obama won too; nobody protested against it then or demonstrated against Obama that he did not win the election 'fairly and squarely' | |||
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" Would you protest against a democratic decision in the way people have to Brexit and Trump? As you say it was a democratic decision and should be respected. . from what I see broadcast on the news its young students, mostly spoiled brats that are doing the protests The march that Nigel Farage is proposing, how do you feel about that one? Ignorant old men and thuggy chavs protesting against the verdict of British judges, or something else? I'd just like to understand whether you're being consistent. "old men and thuggy chavs" How do you know the demographic of the march before it happens, or are you just clumsily trying to stir things up again? " Fair enough, but for the sake of integrity can you confirm that those providing opposing opinion on this thread have made *no* sweeping generalisations? Did that stereotyping rattle your cage? | |||
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"He won fairly and squarely and these lefties/midfielders don't like that?
Fair enough; they can burn more effigies, smash more shop windows and throw missiles at riot police. All very democratic
Right. Let's get this straight. Are the protestors who are burning Trump in effigy actually threatening or assaulting their fellow citizens?
If not, then said protests still qualify as PEACEABLE ASSEMBLY.
As for those protestors who are causing criminal damage to property or throwing missiles at police, they should rightly be arrested and prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
HOWEVER, such people represent only a tiny minority of those who are protesting against President Trump.
The vast majority of protests being organised across the US are PEACEFUL. Consequently, they are exercising nothing more or less than their democratic rights. "Those who are smashing shop windows and assaulting the riot police are not protesting 'peacefully'. Are they not part of the same protest or are they protesting against something else altogether? | |||
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" I don't buy that. The electoral system is what it is and has been so when Obama won too; nobody protested against it then or demonstrated against Obama that he did not win the election 'fairly and squarely' " Obama won both the Electoral College system vote AND the popular vote. So it's not the same thing at all. He really did win fairly. | |||
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"We wouldn't protest at a democratic decision, even if it went completely against our personal beliefs. We would try to understand it , as hard as that might be Again, these people aren't protesting against the election itself. They aren't claiming that the votes were rigged, or that intimidation was employed against minority voters. They're simply voicing their objection to the suitability of Donald Trump as the head of the Executive Branch of the US government and the Commander-in-Chief of the US military... Given that Trump has no political or military experience, and has demonstrated a complete ignorance of the workings of domestic and foreign policy, that's hardly surprising... In that case, they could have voted for the other guy instead; silly to vote for someone whose policies one does not agree with and then protest against them Sorry, are the people demonstrating and voicing their non-support of Trump the ones that voted for him? Is that what you're suggesting. Slight whiff of twaddle there. Erm, so what was it? He won fairly and squarely and these lefties/midfielders don't like that?
Fair enough; they can burn more effigies, smash more shop windows and throw missiles at riot police. All very democratic
I suspect that what people have a problem is that he didn't win 'fair and squarely'.
The Electoral College system was set up in the 1800s specifically so that white men could stay in power, even if challenged. It was set up to do exactly what it did in this election - make the white man get in even if someone else gets more votes and is more popular.
So unsurprisingly, lots of people are going 'hang on, is this really how a modern democracy should look? Perhaps we need to look at this...'
Many are also angry because they feel that the house will not protect them (as it has in the past - like when it blocked almost everything Obama tried to enact), because they believe that the democratic minority will simply try to ride it out with as little trouble as possible so that they still keep their place for when the next election comes round.
I don't buy that. The electoral system is what it is and has been so when Obama won too; nobody protested against it then or demonstrated against Obama that he did not win the election 'fairly and squarely' "Is that true? | |||
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"He won fairly and squarely and these lefties/midfielders don't like that?
Fair enough; they can burn more effigies, smash more shop windows and throw missiles at riot police. All very democratic
Right. Let's get this straight. Are the protestors who are burning Trump in effigy actually threatening or assaulting their fellow citizens?
If not, then said protests still qualify as PEACEABLE ASSEMBLY.
As for those protestors who are causing criminal damage to property or throwing missiles at police, they should rightly be arrested and prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
HOWEVER, such people represent only a tiny minority of those who are protesting against President Trump.
The vast majority of protests being organised across the US are PEACEFUL. Consequently, they are exercising nothing more or less than their democratic rights.
Those who are smashing shop windows and assaulting the riot police are not protesting 'peacefully'. Are they not part of the same protest or are they protesting against something else altogether?"I think you'll find the bit in quotes above your comment deals with that -- did you have a new point to make? | |||
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" I don't buy that. The electoral system is what it is and has been so when Obama won too; nobody protested against it then or demonstrated against Obama that he did not win the election 'fairly and squarely' Obama won both the Electoral College system vote AND the popular vote. So it's not the same thing at all. He really did win fairly." | |||
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" Would you protest against a democratic decision in the way people have to Brexit and Trump? As you say it was a democratic decision and should be respected. . from what I see broadcast on the news its young students, mostly spoiled brats that are doing the protests Just for clarity - is it the 'being a student' that makes you a spoiled brat or something else? (Yours sincerely, a student.)" Is this the same student that complained Brexiter's have stopped them from going to EU countries once studies were complete not knowing that anyone can travel to any EU country regardless if they are a member of the EU or not | |||
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"Oh ffs HITLER WAS ELECTED DEMOCRATICALY so clearly if a bunch of shitty racist nazi cunts are in a majority and they make the policies then that shits in people. Or don't we protest things like genocide because people voted 'democratically' so obviously no-one can argue? Is anyone else bored by people with zero apathy?" Yay! Hitler Bingo! You lose | |||
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"I don't buy that. The electoral system is what it is and has been so when Obama won too; nobody protested against it then or demonstrated against Obama that he did not win the election 'fairly and squarely' " There are always protests in America when someone is elected President. Not to mention that Obama won the popular vote along with the electoral college. And the electoral system doesn't have to be the way it is if it isn't producing fair results. With the increasing division between Americans some would and have argued that the electoral college is outdated and subversive to democracy. Prior to 2000 the electoral college had only failed 3 times in all of US history. Now it might have happened for a second time in just my lifetime. Maybe it needs to change. | |||
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" Would you protest against a democratic decision in the way people have to Brexit and Trump? As you say it was a democratic decision and should be respected. . from what I see broadcast on the news its young students, mostly spoiled brats that are doing the protests The march that Nigel Farage is proposing, how do you feel about that one? Ignorant old men and thuggy chavs protesting against the verdict of British judges, or something else? I'd just like to understand whether you're being consistent. "old men and thuggy chavs" How do you know the demographic of the march before it happens, or are you just clumsily trying to stir things up again? " | |||
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" Would you protest against a democratic decision in the way people have to Brexit and Trump? As you say it was a democratic decision and should be respected. . from what I see broadcast on the news its young students, mostly spoiled brats that are doing the protests Just for clarity - is it the 'being a student' that makes you a spoiled brat or something else? (Yours sincerely, a student.) Is this the same student that complained Brexiter's have stopped them from going to EU countries once studies were complete not knowing that anyone can travel to any EU country regardless if they are a member of the EU or not "Actually, I was suggesting that Brexit would severely limit my ability to go and work abroad in the EU. I believe you misunderstood the point I was making. | |||
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" Would you protest against a democratic decision in the way people have to Brexit and Trump? As you say it was a democratic decision and should be respected. . from what I see broadcast on the news its young students, mostly spoiled brats that are doing the protests Just for clarity - is it the 'being a student' that makes you a spoiled brat or something else? (Yours sincerely, a student.) Is this the same student that complained Brexiter's have stopped them from going to EU countries once studies were complete not knowing that anyone can travel to any EU country regardless if they are a member of the EU or not
Actually, I was suggesting that Brexit would severely limit my ability to go and work abroad in the EU.
I believe you misunderstood the point I was making."all depends on the job lady, if you stick in at school, and prove to employers you are worthy then they will take care of visa & paperwork if you are looking to be a bar person or crop picker that's a different story | |||
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" all depends on the job lady, if you stick in at school, and prove to employers you are worthy then they will take care of visa & paperwork if you are looking to be a bar person or crop picker that's a different story "I do not think you have any concept at all of how modern immigration works. (Stick in school? Is my PhD going to be enough do you think?) | |||
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"Those who are smashing shop windows and assaulting the riot police are not protesting 'peacefully'. Are they not part of the same protest or are they protesting against something else altogether?" When did I deny that the minority who are resorting to violence are part of the same protest? If you actually read my post, I acknowledged that those who resort to violence should face prosecution. However, the fact remains that the majority of protestors are voicing their grievances in manner consistent with the provisions of the First Amendment. The violent actions of the minority do not invalidate the right of the majority to peaceably assemble and protest against Trump. | |||
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"Oh ffs HITLER WAS ELECTED DEMOCRATICALY so clearly if a bunch of shitty racist nazi cunts are in a majority and they make the policies then that shits in people. Or don't we protest things like genocide because people voted 'democratically' so obviously no-one can argue? Is anyone else bored by people with zero apathy? Yay! Hitler Bingo! You lose "I knew when I typed the relevant example, that it wouldn't go without someone mentioning *that*. And I still said it. | |||
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" Would you protest against a democratic decision in the way people have to Brexit and Trump? As you say it was a democratic decision and should be respected. . from what I see broadcast on the news its young students, mostly spoiled brats that are doing the protests The march that Nigel Farage is proposing, how do you feel about that one? Ignorant old men and thuggy chavs protesting against the verdict of British judges, or something else? I'd just like to understand whether you're being consistent. "old men and thuggy chavs" How do you know the demographic of the march before it happens, or are you just clumsily trying to stir things up again? " It's neither. Nothing clumsy about it. Quite clearly, I was deliberately mirroring the language used to describe the individuals engaging in these protests ("spoiled brats"). If that was beyond people, I don't think it's my use of language that's at fault. | |||
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" Would you protest against a democratic decision in the way people have to Brexit and Trump? As you say it was a democratic decision and should be respected. . from what I see broadcast on the news its young students, mostly spoiled brats that are doing the protests The march that Nigel Farage is proposing, how do you feel about that one? Ignorant old men and thuggy chavs protesting against the verdict of British judges, or something else? I'd just like to understand whether you're being consistent. "old men and thuggy chavs" How do you know the demographic of the march before it happens, or are you just clumsily trying to stir things up again? It's neither. Nothing clumsy about it. Quite clearly, I was deliberately mirroring the language used to describe the individuals engaging in these protests ("spoiled brats"). If that was beyond people, I don't think it's my use of language that's at fault. " | |||
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"No I wouldn't protest the outcome of an election. I would absolutely protest against specific policy decisions, if they were trying to enact them. Abortion laws, for example, if you want a Trump example. You're talking about a candidate who said that not only should abortion not be available to women, but that they should be punished for seeking abortion. That deserves to be protested against. " this | |||
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"I'll also add that I think terming these sorts of protests "anti democracy demonstrations" is not only an unfair description, but one which suppresses political speech and itself subverts the foundations of democracy. People should be encouraged to engage in political debate and discussion and that is exactly was a non-violent protest is. In reference to the US presidential election, there are always protests afterwards. There were when Obama was elected, when Bush was elected, and now when Trump has been elected. This year the protests are more poignant because Trump has seemingly lost the popular vote - perhaps that is a better starting point for a discussion on democracy? In the US we have the first amendment which protects freedom on speech and the most protected form of speech under our constitution is political speech. Why? Because freedom of political speech is a cornerstone of democracy. In the federalist papers the founders note the importance of factions in American democracy. These factions help stop the majority from ruling the minority without opposition. The factions have power from their freedom of speech, which is then protected by the first amendment. So, do I have a problem with protests after an election? No. Would my answer be different if the election results had been reversed? No." spot on.. | |||
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"5O % if Americans did not vote. That left 25% voting for Trump. How many of those protesters didn't vote? " Voting isn't a prerequisite for exercising a constitutional right | |||
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"5O % if Americans did not vote. That left 25% voting for Trump. How many of those protesters didn't vote? Voting isn't a prerequisite for exercising a constitutional right" | |||
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" Would you protest against a democratic decision in the way people have to Brexit and Trump? As you say it was a democratic decision and should be respected. . from what I see broadcast on the news its young students, mostly spoiled brats that are doing the protests The march that Nigel Farage is proposing, how do you feel about that one? Ignorant old men and thuggy chavs protesting against the verdict of British judges, or something else? I'd just like to understand whether you're being consistent. "old men and thuggy chavs" How do you know the demographic of the march before it happens, or are you just clumsily trying to stir things up again? It's neither. Nothing clumsy about it. Quite clearly, I was deliberately mirroring the language used to describe the individuals engaging in these protests ("spoiled brats"). If that was beyond people, I don't think it's my use of language that's at fault. " | |||
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"5O % if Americans did not vote. That left 25% voting for Trump. How many of those protesters didn't vote? " Exactly this . If you can't be bothered to vote , then ffs don't moan when it doesn't go your way afterwards . | |||
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" Would you protest against a democratic decision in the way people have to Brexit and Trump? As you say it was a democratic decision and should be respected. . from what I see broadcast on the news its young students, mostly spoiled brats that are doing the protests The march that Nigel Farage is proposing, how do you feel about that one? Ignorant old men and thuggy chavs protesting against the verdict of British judges, or something else? I'd just like to understand whether you're being consistent. "old men and thuggy chavs" How do you know the demographic of the march before it happens, or are you just clumsily trying to stir things up again? It's neither. Nothing clumsy about it. Quite clearly, I was deliberately mirroring the language used to describe the individuals engaging in these protests ("spoiled brats"). If that was beyond people, I don't think it's my use of language that's at fault. " | |||
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" I don't buy that. The electoral system is what it is and has been so when Obama won too; nobody protested against it then or demonstrated against Obama that he did not win the election 'fairly and squarely' Obama won both the Electoral College system vote AND the popular vote. So it's not the same thing at all. He really did win fairly." The difference in the popular vote was 0.2% ! Hardly a difference worth smashing windows and rioting for And Trump won 279 against Hilary's 228; that is a big difference; and that is the system which is currently in the US If thy are protesting against the system then they did not need to wait until after the results were announced | |||
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"5O % if Americans did not vote. That left 25% voting for Trump. How many of those protesters didn't vote? Exactly this . If you can't be bothered to vote , then ffs don't moan when it doesn't go your way afterwards ." 'Exactly this'...what, this idea that you've just made up? You have no idea what percentage of protesters didn't vote. | |||
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"We wouldn't protest at a democratic decision, even if it went completely against our personal beliefs. We would try to understand it , as hard as that might be Again, these people aren't protesting against the election itself. They aren't claiming that the votes were rigged, or that intimidation was employed against minority voters. They're simply voicing their objection to the suitability of Donald Trump as the head of the Executive Branch of the US government and the Commander-in-Chief of the US military... Given that Trump has no political or military experience, and has demonstrated a complete ignorance of the workings of domestic and foreign policy, that's hardly surprising... In that case, they could have voted for the other guy instead; silly to vote for someone whose policies one does not agree with and then protest against them Sorry, are the people demonstrating and voicing their non-support of Trump the ones that voted for him? Is that what you're suggesting. Slight whiff of twaddle there. Erm, so what was it? He won fairly and squarely and these lefties/midfielders don't like that?
Fair enough; they can burn more effigies, smash more shop windows and throw missiles at riot police. All very democratic
I suspect that what people have a problem is that he didn't win 'fair and squarely'.
The Electoral College system was set up in the 1800s specifically so that white men could stay in power, even if challenged. It was set up to do exactly what it did in this election - make the white man get in even if someone else gets more votes and is more popular.
So unsurprisingly, lots of people are going 'hang on, is this really how a modern democracy should look? Perhaps we need to look at this...'
Many are also angry because they feel that the house will not protect them (as it has in the past - like when it blocked almost everything Obama tried to enact), because they believe that the democratic minority will simply try to ride it out with as little trouble as possible so that they still keep their place for when the next election comes round.
I don't buy that. The electoral system is what it is and has been so when Obama won too; nobody protested against it then or demonstrated against Obama that he did not win the election 'fairly and squarely'
Is that true? "Yes, it is true; it was the same system which got Obama into the White house; he won 332 against Ryan's 206 | |||
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"Have another election, and then another and then yet another, until the minority wins. Then the other side can do the same thing It turns out we don't need to - the minority already won this election.
That's not how it works... So let's say for instance over here, you were a Labour voter and Labour won by quite some distance, but then I, as a tory voter joined a protest and then we all started screaming about the majority not wanting Labour, because 4% voted Greens and 6% UKIP, you'd accept that as a valid argument?
I don't know you, but I don't think you would.
Donald Trump has won 47.5% of the vote, with Hillary Clinton taking 47.7% - yet this has translated into 279 electoral college votes for the Republicans and 228 for the Democrats
And i was being sarcastic "The Democrats always get California's vote and New York State's vote so have 81 College votes without any effort, take away those votes and Trump beat Clinton 2:1. Not bad for a fixed system. | |||
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"The difference in the popular vote was 0.2%! Hardly a difference worth smashing windows and rioting for." First, I repeat that the number of people 'smashing windows' and committing other criminal acts is negligible compared to the number of people engaging peaceful protest. Second, the characterisation of these anti-Trumpt protests as 'riots' is mainly down to right-wing conspiracy-theorist websites such as Breitbart and Infowars. Not to mention gutter tabloids like The Sun, which seem hell-bent on portraying all anti-Trump protesters as thugs and criminals. Third, I don't believe that exercising the right to political protest requires the securing of a minimum percentage of the popular vote. | |||
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