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NHS bans non emergency ops for the obese and smokers.
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"Just read this. My bmi is over 30 so that's me banned.The hit list doesn't include heavy drinkers or,those who clog up A and E and abuse the ambulance service after binge drinking,fighting and drug abuse. "Can't see this in the news, do you have a link? | |||
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"Just read this. My bmi is over 30 so that's me banned.The hit list doesn't include heavy drinkers or,those who clog up A and E and abuse the ambulance service after binge drinking,fighting and drug abuse.
Can't see this in the news, do you have a link? "That would help | |||
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"To a point I agree as gross obesity and smoking costs the health service an awful lot of money but,why single out just two types of patient. "And the tax on cigarettes goes towards the healthcare of those that smoke and those who don't smoke | |||
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"One health trust has delayed hip and knee operations for people with a body mass index over 30." Is that because of recovery afterwards with the excess weight,or danger of anaesthetic on obese people? | |||
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Makes no sense | |||
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"Just read this. My bmi is over 30 so that's me banned.The hit list doesn't include heavy drinkers or,those who clog up A and E and abuse the ambulance service after binge drinking,fighting and drug abuse. "Only if you live in North Yorkshire and need a hip or knee operation. | |||
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"I dunno? Can you describe them as smokey bacon cos if so, I'd have them! "Sorry Seduced, but it is the Monster Munch 'Pickled Onion Flavour NHS Trust' down your way.. | |||
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"I dunno? Can you describe them as smokey bacon cos if so, I'd have them!
Sorry Seduced, but it is the Monster Munch 'Pickled Onion Flavour NHS Trust' down your way.. "Might be!? Keeping that close to my pickled onion chest. | |||
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"One health trust has delayed hip and knee operations for people with a body mass index over 30. Is that because of recovery afterwards with the excess weight,or danger of anaesthetic on obese people? " I suspect there are lots of reasons including financial but obesity is a significant factor in joints that bear weight needing surgery so I hope that's being addressed as an alternative. | |||
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"I had to get my BMI don't to 30 before they sterilise me not much more to loose though, God how I'd love a magic pill that could give me my idea of the perfect body " I was refused it as told i needed to be in my healthy range | |||
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"I dunno? Can you describe them as smokey bacon cos if so, I'd have them!
Sorry Seduced, but it is the Monster Munch 'Pickled Onion Flavour NHS Trust' down your way..
Might be!? Keeping that close to my pickled onion chest. "Psst! I'm against NHS privatisation....but.....buy shares in Monster Munch | |||
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"I dunno? Can you describe them as smokey bacon cos if so, I'd have them!
Sorry Seduced, but it is the Monster Munch 'Pickled Onion Flavour NHS Trust' down your way..
Might be!? Keeping that close to my pickled onion chest.
Psst! I'm against NHS privatisation....but.....buy shares in Monster Munch "I bet you say that to all the girls! | |||
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I blame Mcdonalds and their golden nuggets of gold!
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"To a point I agree as gross obesity and smoking costs the health service an awful lot of money but,why single out just two types of patient.
And the tax on cigarettes goes towards the healthcare of those that smoke and those who don't smoke "Doesn't go towards, it far out weighs, tobacco tax income is greater than smoking related NHS outgoings | |||
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"One health trust has delayed hip and knee operations for people with a body mass index over 30. Is that because of recovery afterwards with the excess weight,or danger of anaesthetic on obese people? I suspect there are lots of reasons including financial but obesity is a significant factor in joints that bear weight needing surgery so I hope that's being addressed as an alternative." My knees and hip are wearing down and very painful. The Catch 22 is the more you exercise the worse the wear and pain is,so you sit down,get bored and want to eat or drink tea. I should have quite a few years to lose more weight before I need knee replacements. I'm hoping so anyway. | |||
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"I thought nhs was getting 350mill a week, seems brexit is not delivering." Ah yes and Boris and Michael exited the scene too I see, along with said promise | |||
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"To a point I agree as gross obesity and smoking costs the health service an awful lot of money but,why single out just two types of patient.
And the tax on cigarettes goes towards the healthcare of those that smoke and those who don't smoke
Doesn't go towards, it far out weighs, tobacco tax income is greater than smoking related NHS outgoings"They should just ban smoking. | |||
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"To a point I agree as gross obesity and smoking costs the health service an awful lot of money but,why single out just two types of patient.
And the tax on cigarettes goes towards the healthcare of those that smoke and those who don't smoke
Doesn't go towards, it far out weighs, tobacco tax income is greater than smoking related NHS outgoings
They should just ban smoking."They won't because of the greater tax income. | |||
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 ....but in a BMI test it can out you in the overweight category | |||
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"To a point I agree as gross obesity and smoking costs the health service an awful lot of money but,why single out just two types of patient.
And the tax on cigarettes goes towards the healthcare of those that smoke and those who don't smoke
Doesn't go towards, it far out weighs, tobacco tax income is greater than smoking related NHS outgoings
They should just ban smoking."And cream cakes  | |||
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"I've just been reading a bit more about this and its confusing. It could well apply across the NHS eventually and it isn't clear if it applies to just hip and knee operations. It also appears to be mostly financial" I would think it would be about numbers. I'm not in favour of banning smoking. Prohibition of anything that humans choose to consume hasn't worked. It costs the public every which way. Not just financially but socially. It's why alot of your kids feel the need to eat plant fertiliser on a Saturday night with their mates.  | |||
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"One health trust has delayed hip and knee operations for people with a body mass index over 30." It's because the implants wear prematurely if you are over weight. Meaning that you have to have them revised earlier which costs the NHS a fortune. | |||
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"One health trust has delayed hip and knee operations for people with a body mass index over 30. Is that because of recovery afterwards with the excess weight,or danger of anaesthetic on obese people? " See my previous comment | |||
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"The NHS don't make these kind of decisions because they feel like being nasty to fat people and smokers. There are significant risks with anaesthetic. Would people rather go ahead with routine procedures even though there is a high risk of cardiac failure." It's because the implants fail quicker. They expect them to last 10 years but if you are over weight they can fail in 4! Also a lot of vascular operations for example femoral grafts are nearly exclusively done on smokers. If you don't quit then the operation is pointless as it will need to be replaced a few years down the line. | |||
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"I've just been reading a bit more about this and its confusing. It could well apply across the NHS eventually and it isn't clear if it applies to just hip and knee operations. It also appears to be mostly financial" It's because of having to redo the same operation again because the implant has failed | |||
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"I get all the arguments for doing this type of ban but you are discriminating now against people - you'll happily take our NI and tax though! Why not ban those who have never paid into the NHS in the form of NI. Let's ban those that have more than 2 children as that's a burden Those that chose to have IVF can pay privately for their children's treatment as they must be rich The old don't contribute anymore so they can live out the rest of their days in pain I have a 70% chance of Overian cancer but leave me because it would be preventative to have a hysterectomy and not an emergency My next door neighbour needs a hip replacement but he smoked for 5 years when he fought in the war so he's out of luck now for that Where does it end? Who gets to play God and decide what is an emergency and what isn't and who can have it and who can't. Once you go down this route the only answer is privatisation." Smoking won't prevent him getting a hip replacement! And under the NHS covernant veterans are given priority treatment! Why waste you're NI (not tax) on treatments that are ineffective? I t's like giving a stock car racer a rolls Royce and asking him not up dent it in a race...pointless Maybe if the NHS didn't waste money on operations who's outcomes will be poor due to patient non compliance we might all get a better service. At the end of the day it's in the patients best interest | |||
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"I get all the arguments for doing this type of ban but you are discriminating now against people - you'll happily take our NI and tax though! Why not ban those who have never paid into the NHS in the form of NI. Let's ban those that have more than 2 children as that's a burden Those that chose to have IVF can pay privately for their children's treatment as they must be rich The old don't contribute anymore so they can live out the rest of their days in pain I have a 70% chance of Overian cancer but leave me because it would be preventative to have a hysterectomy and not an emergency My next door neighbour needs a hip replacement but he smoked for 5 years when he fought in the war so he's out of luck now for that Where does it end? Who gets to play God and decide what is an emergency and what isn't and who can have it and who can't. Once you go down this route the only answer is privatisation." My BMI is way over 30 and I was refused a hysterectomy because of it. I asked the doctor how come I was able to have three cesareans under general anaesthetic without my weight being raised. She mumbled something about "mixture" but I stopped listening. She then, in the next breath offered me a gastric band...Under general anaesthetic! When I said hold on a minute, if it's dangerous for a hysterectomy how is it safe for bariatric surgery?!! She again went on about "mix" and wasn't impressed when I said if that was the case to get the bariatric anaesthetist to do the hysterectomy! For survival reasons I'm in total agreement why they're "targeting" smokers and fat people. However, it will need to be monitored and not a test run to start discriminating as you've outlined. | |||
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"Smokers should go to the front of the queue. The tax they pay far outweighs their cost to the NHS; And the reality ( not the propaganda) shows that people with so called " smoking related diseases " would have actually got those diseases anyway. " Propaganda? Are you being serious? Next you'll be telling us seatbelts don't save lives | |||
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"Smokers should go to the front of the queue. The tax they pay far outweighs their cost to the NHS; And the reality ( not the propaganda) shows that people with so called " smoking related diseases " would have actually got those diseases anyway. Propaganda? Are you being serious? Next you'll be telling us seatbelts don't save lives " You should research the reality of the statistics. And if you want to be pedantic, no, seat belts don't save lives; nor do airbags; because drivers feel safer, so they drive far less cautiously than they did 50 years ago, have accidents and kill pedestrians, so seat belts indirectly kill pedestrians . | |||
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" And the reality ( not the propaganda) shows that people with so called " smoking related diseases " would have actually got those diseases anyway. " what reality is that ! .. sounds like the biggest load of shit since they tried to tell us smoking was good for us | |||
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"Smokers should go to the front of the queue. The tax they pay far outweighs their cost to the NHS; And the reality ( not the propaganda) shows that people with so called " smoking related diseases " would have actually got those diseases anyway. Propaganda? Are you being serious? Next you'll be telling us seatbelts don't save lives You should research the reality of the statistics. And if you want to be pedantic, no, seat belts don't save lives; nor do airbags; because drivers feel safer, so they drive far less cautiously than they did 50 years ago, have accidents and kill pedestrians, so seat belts indirectly kill pedestrians . " Do you have any links fir this? The tobacco industry is extremely powerful and for years used that power to deny the health risks but even they accept them as reality now | |||
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"I've just been reading a bit more about this and its confusing. It could well apply across the NHS eventually and it isn't clear if it applies to just hip and knee operations. It also appears to be mostly financial" It's 100% financial. Tories will do anything they can to stop universal healthcare, and things like this are the first step in the direction of forcing everyone to buy into a US-style health insurance system. It always starts with a gradual erosion, framed as cost-saving...but eventually the NHS system will collapse under the weight of over-prescription and under-funding, and that will be the excuse needed to hand it all over to private healthcare providers. Oliver Letwin said before the last election there'd be no NHS within 5 years of a Tory Government. And Labour are too busy fighting themselves to offer any real opposition - for the record, I don't blame Corbyn for that, I blame the self-serving Labour careerists who found their opinions challenged a lot more heavily. They'd rather see Labour destroyed than a Labour Government with Corbyn at the helm. | |||
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"It's not just smokers and high bmi people. The media pick up on those. The whole idea is to promote health and if it means your life choices (which are yours to make) impact directly in your health and you will continue to make that same life choice even after sometimes life saving surgery why should you be entitled to receive more out of the system than those who make the effort? High BMI is an anaesthetic risk and it does increase the mortality rate of surgery" If the idea is to promote health, why aren't we targeting manufacturers of fat-heavy foods? In old days, if people were poor they'd be thin but nowadays poor people are more likely to be obese thanks to the availability of very cheap processed food. The cost of healthcare should be passed on to the manufacturers of those products, and then they can have a choice - make their food healthier, or pay for the obesity their products cause. | |||
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"It's not just smokers and high bmi people. The media pick up on those. The whole idea is to promote health and if it means your life choices (which are yours to make) impact directly in your health and you will continue to make that same life choice even after sometimes life saving surgery why should you be entitled to receive more out of the system than those who make the effort? High BMI is an anaesthetic risk and it does increase the mortality rate of surgery If the idea is to promote health, why aren't we targeting manufacturers of fat-heavy foods? In old days, if people were poor they'd be thin but nowadays poor people are more likely to be obese thanks to the availability of very cheap processed food. The cost of healthcare should be passed on to the manufacturers of those products, and then they can have a choice - make their food healthier, or pay for the obesity their products cause. " Because fat-heavy foods aren't necessarilythe main reason people are fat, it's more likely they eat too many carbohydrates. | |||
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" And if you want to be pedantic, no, seat belts don't save lives; nor do airbags; because drivers feel safer, so they drive far less cautiously than they did 50 years ago, have accidents and kill pedestrians, so seat belts indirectly kill pedestrians . " But like the NHS itself then, people bare only an indirect proportion of their treatment costs and take less precautions with their healthcare. | |||
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"It's not just smokers and high bmi people. The media pick up on those. The whole idea is to promote health and if it means your life choices (which are yours to make) impact directly in your health and you will continue to make that same life choice even after sometimes life saving surgery why should you be entitled to receive more out of the system than those who make the effort? High BMI is an anaesthetic risk and it does increase the mortality rate of surgery If the idea is to promote health, why aren't we targeting manufacturers of fat-heavy foods? In old days, if people were poor they'd be thin but nowadays poor people are more likely to be obese thanks to the availability of very cheap processed food. The cost of healthcare should be passed on to the manufacturers of those products, and then they can have a choice - make their food healthier, or pay for the obesity their products cause. Because fat-heavy foods aren't necessarilythe main reason people are fat, it's more likely they eat too many carbohydrates. " Probably a mixture of both - but it's clear that manufacturers of cheap processed food that are stuffed with artificial preservatives, hydrogenated fats and other bulking agents are at least partly responsible for the obesity problem - after all, if it's cheaper to buy a Findus crispy pancake than a home-cooked fresh meal, then those at the lower end of the earning spectrum are going to go for the cheaper option. Money isn't the only thing though, time is the other - they call it convenience food for a reason. People with long hours, low-paying jobs are the target demographic for convenience food manufacturers. We can add processed sugar in foods into the mix too, as well as carbs and fats - and then there's salt content. There's a huge amount of heavily processed bulk in ready meals and convenience foods, carbs at least are a more natural food source and are less likely to have negative health effects. | |||
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"It's not just smokers and high bmi people. The media pick up on those. The whole idea is to promote health and if it means your life choices (which are yours to make) impact directly in your health and you will continue to make that same life choice even after sometimes life saving surgery why should you be entitled to receive more out of the system than those who make the effort? High BMI is an anaesthetic risk and it does increase the mortality rate of surgery If the idea is to promote health, why aren't we targeting manufacturers of fat-heavy foods? In old days, if people were poor they'd be thin but nowadays poor people are more likely to be obese thanks to the availability of very cheap processed food. The cost of healthcare should be passed on to the manufacturers of those products, and then they can have a choice - make their food healthier, or pay for the obesity their products cause. Because fat-heavy foods aren't necessarilythe main reason people are fat, it's more likely they eat too many carbohydrates. Probably a mixture of both - but it's clear that manufacturers of cheap processed food that are stuffed with artificial preservatives, hydrogenated fats and other bulking agents are at least partly responsible for the obesity problem - after all, if it's cheaper to buy a Findus crispy pancake than a home-cooked fresh meal, then those at the lower end of the earning spectrum are going to go for the cheaper option. Money isn't the only thing though, time is the other - they call it convenience food for a reason. People with long hours, low-paying jobs are the target demographic for convenience food manufacturers. We can add processed sugar in foods into the mix too, as well as carbs and fats - and then there's salt content. There's a huge amount of heavily processed bulk in ready meals and convenience foods, carbs at least are a more natural food source and are less likely to have negative health effects. " I don't disagree with any of that, but ultimately if you eat more than ~3,000 calories a day then weight is going on. That's not really a difficult thing to manage and without exercise I think people are pretty much doomed. Eating less is miserable and boring. Exercise is fun and has other benefits anyway. Soldiers in Afghanistan eat ~6,000 calories a day but still lose weight because of how much exercise they do. Although that's not really the fun type of exercise I was talking about. | |||
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"To a point I agree as gross obesity and smoking costs the health service an awful lot of money but,why single out just two types of patient. "because its a contrived campaign to cause outrage, so they can bring in other measures while you are focessed on the 'showcase'... havent you worked this out yet..distraction in the media is all about diverting attention from where they dont want you to look... | |||
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"I don't disagree with any of that, but ultimately if you eat more than ~3,000 calories a day then weight is going on. That's not really a difficult thing to manage and without exercise I think people are pretty much doomed. Eating less is miserable and boring. Exercise is fun and has other benefits anyway. Soldiers in Afghanistan eat ~6,000 calories a day but still lose weight because of how much exercise they do. Although that's not really the fun type of exercise I was talking about. " True, I don't think people realise the high calorie content of ready meals though, and sugary soft drinks, when a meal of similar size made of fresh meats and veg will probably have way less calories in, and way more of the necessary vitamins and minerals. We live in a society where nobody has time to cook from fresh any more though, and rely more on microwave meals or oven ready meals than we should as a society. The wonders of consumerism ^_^ | |||
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"To a point I agree as gross obesity and smoking costs the health service an awful lot of money but,why single out just two types of patient. because its a contrived campaign to cause outrage, so they can bring in other measures while you are focessed on the 'showcase'...
havent you worked this out yet..distraction in the media is all about diverting attention from where they dont want you to look... "They call it the "dead cat" - old political story was that some politician would say "how do you distract from a negative story? Throw a dead cat on the table. That way all anyone can talk about is the dead cat" Jeremy Corbyn and train-gate was a dead cat which the Tories used to slip out unsavoury news, such as a renewed attempt to repeal the human rights act. | |||
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"To a point I agree as gross obesity and smoking costs the health service an awful lot of money but,why single out just two types of patient. because its a contrived campaign to cause outrage, so they can bring in other measures while you are focessed on the 'showcase'...
havent you worked this out yet..distraction in the media is all about diverting attention from where they dont want you to look...
They call it the "dead cat" - old political story was that some politician would say "how do you distract from a negative story? Throw a dead cat on the table. That way all anyone can talk about is the dead cat"
Jeremy Corbyn and train-gate was a dead cat which the Tories used to slip out unsavoury news, such as a renewed attempt to repeal the human rights act. "they still do it constantly...its the way politics operates..ALL the time..people still fall for it hook line and sinker.. | |||
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"I don't disagree with any of that, but ultimately if you eat more than ~3,000 calories a day then weight is going on. That's not really a difficult thing to manage and without exercise I think people are pretty much doomed. Eating less is miserable and boring. Exercise is fun and has other benefits anyway. Soldiers in Afghanistan eat ~6,000 calories a day but still lose weight because of how much exercise they do. Although that's not really the fun type of exercise I was talking about. True, I don't think people realise the high calorie content of ready meals though, and sugary soft drinks, when a meal of similar size made of fresh meats and veg will probably have way less calories in, and way more of the necessary vitamins and minerals. We live in a society where nobody has time to cook from fresh any more though, and rely more on microwave meals or oven ready meals than we should as a society. The wonders of consumerism ^_^" When I was younger I learnt the calorie content of most things (that I ever eat) and can still remember them today. The calories are on the packet so I don't have much sympathy for people that can't be arsed to read them. I'm as busy as anyone but still find 3 +hours a week to exercise. Most the people who tell you they don't have time to exercise will watch 3+ hours of TV a week. Ultimately I believe it's about priorities and for most people, exercise isn't a priority. | |||
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" Once you go down this route the only answer is privatisation. My BMI is way over 30 and I was refused a hysterectomy because of it. I asked the doctor how come I was able to have three cesareans under general anaesthetic without my weight being raised. She mumbled something about "mixture" but I stopped listening. She then, in the next breath offered me a gastric band...Under general anaesthetic! When I said hold on a minute, if it's dangerous for a hysterectomy how is it safe for bariatric surgery?!! She again went on about "mix" and wasn't impressed when I said if that was the case to get the bariatric anaesthetist to do the hysterectomy! " I love your answers to her | |||
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"About fucking time x "Why's that then? | |||
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"Maybe if your a swinger they should make you pay full cost for the antibiotics and umbrella down the japs eye. JS" Showing your age a bit there! They don't put umbrella down the japs eye anymore and haven't for ages. | |||
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"Maybe if your a swinger they should make you pay full cost for the antibiotics and umbrella down the japs eye. JS Showing your age a bit there! They don't put umbrella down the japs eye anymore and haven't for ages. " Oh really?? Gawd any really dirty scutters wanna go bare with me? | |||
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"Maybe if your a swinger they should make you pay full cost for the antibiotics and umbrella down the japs eye. JS Showing your age a bit there! They don't put umbrella down the japs eye anymore and haven't for ages. " On embarrassing bodies that doctor did a swab with a swab thingy. Is that the same thing? | |||
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"Maybe if your a swinger they should make you pay full cost for the antibiotics and umbrella down the japs eye. JS Showing your age a bit there! They don't put umbrella down the japs eye anymore and haven't for ages. On embarrassing bodies that doctor did a swab with a swab thingy. Is that the same thing? " It's a a very old fashioned way of doing it. I had that about 6 years ago. Now you just give a piss and blood sample. Separate samples. | |||
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"It has been like that for a long time. I would say it is all about the cost. I wonder if they are going to include heavy drinkers/ people who play sport and injure themselves doing it etc etc soon too." With sport other than traumatic injuries (fractures and breaks) it's virtually impossible to get treatment on the NHS. For musculoskeletal injuries people have been going private for years and I don't really have a problem with that Drink is a huge drain not just on the NHS but also the police who spend hugec resources sealing with the after effects. But for the NHS it is a huge burden, it's a massive drain on A&E,it's often a factor with mental health, dealing with addiction and then the long term effects and care that it requires. No idea how you tackle it though Obesity is often referred to as a time bomb and that may be why it's being focused on? But many crimes such as assault cary a victim surcharge on conviction that goes to a centralised fund. Maybe the government should introduce similar for anyone cautioned or convicted of charges where drink is a factor and pump that in to the NHS? That way people who are twats when d*unk are at least being made accountable | |||
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"So if my BMI is over 30 I can stop paying NI and tax on my wages? And get a refund? Benefits Britain win again. Free everything and all the appointments as they are free all day to attend them. When will the good old tax payer get anything back including those who are now retired who kept this country going through the yrs! Betty" Where does benefits britain come into it? Are people on benefits still getting the surgery | |||
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"So if my BMI is over 30 I can stop paying NI and tax on my wages? And get a refund? Benefits Britain win again. Free everything and all the appointments as they are free all day to attend them. When will the good old tax payer get anything back including those who are now retired who kept this country going through the yrs! Betty" I don't follow your argument here, can you explain a bit more? | |||
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"So if my BMI is over 30 I can stop paying NI and tax on my wages? And get a refund? Benefits Britain win again. Free everything and all the appointments as they are free all day to attend them. When will the good old tax payer get anything back including those who are now retired who kept this country going through the yrs! Betty" Your tax and NI pay for more than just non emergency operations though so your argument is really just ridiculous. | |||
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"I do see where the op and others are coming from. It's not just smokers and the obese who are crippling the NHS - it's heavy drinkers and drug users too - but what percentage drinkers and drug users 'consume' compared to the obese and smokers I've no idea! The NHS was/is a wonderful idea - free healthcare for all who need it - but society has changed massively in the years since it was introduced - and a huge amount of money is being used to treat people with arguably self-imposed illnesses! I'm not sure what the answer is - maybe those who 'deliberately' increase risks to their health by being obese, smoking, drinking heavily and drug using should pay a health insurance/NI premium to help cover the cost of future treatments they're likely to need? To be honest it seems the only way we'll stop it from grinding to an expensive halt in the not-too-distant future. Perhaps people will consider their lifestyle choices more if they have to pay more towards the health consequences? " I don't think they will. Look at America. They pay an awful lot of money for their health care and for some it is a choice of either paying the rent or seeing the Dr. All that will happen is the rich will pay and the poor will suffer. | |||
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"Slow news day story. Back in the 1980s a friend of mine wanted surgery which wasn't life threatening, got told to stop smoking and ask again. My mother needed a hip replacement in the 90s, got told to get under a target weight before they could do it. It happens all the time, and has always happened. just every now and then it breaks into a sensational news story. hammer the NHS seems to be an acceptable target for society." Exactly | |||
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" I don't think they will. Look at America. They pay an awful lot of money for their health care and for some it is a choice of either paying the rent or seeing the Dr. All that will happen is the rich will pay and the poor will suffer. " The NHS is ranked 18th worldwide. America is ranked something awful like ~40th. If you want a model that produces superior results then there are 17 other countries you could look at, starting with our neighbours France. | |||
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"Here is the link... . Obese patients may face NHS surgery ban to save money http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-37265752 . Obese patients could be refused surgery for up to a year as part of efforts to save money, an NHS commissioning group in North Yorkshire has said. Officials at the Vale of York Clinical Commissioning Group said the decision came at a time when the local system was under "severe pressure"." The point to be made is that this is something *one* particular health trust is considering in response to its own financial problems. This is not something to be rolled out across the country. | |||
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"Here is the link... . Obese patients may face NHS surgery ban to save money http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-37265752 . Obese patients could be refused surgery for up to a year as part of efforts to save money, an NHS commissioning group in North Yorkshire has said. Officials at the Vale of York Clinical Commissioning Group said the decision came at a time when the local system was under "severe pressure". The point to be made is that this is something *one* particular health trust is considering in response to its own financial problems. This is not something to be rolled out across the country. " Unlike rolls of flab... | |||
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" I don't think they will. Look at America. They pay an awful lot of money for their health care and for some it is a choice of either paying the rent or seeing the Dr. All that will happen is the rich will pay and the poor will suffer. The NHS is ranked 18th worldwide. America is ranked something awful like ~40th. If you want a model that produces superior results then there are 17 other countries you could look at, starting with our neighbours France. " Presumably those rankings are for service. Rank then by profit and i suspect it's obvious why the tories are desperate to follow the American example | |||
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"I do see where the op and others are coming from. It's not just smokers and the obese who are crippling the NHS - it's heavy drinkers and drug users too - but what percentage drinkers and drug users 'consume' compared to the obese and smokers I've no idea! The NHS was/is a wonderful idea - free healthcare for all who need it - but society has changed massively in the years since it was introduced - and a huge amount of money is being used to treat people with arguably self-imposed illnesses! I'm not sure what the answer is - maybe those who 'deliberately' increase risks to their health by being obese, smoking, drinking heavily and drug using should pay a health insurance/NI premium to help cover the cost of future treatments they're likely to need? To be honest it seems the only way we'll stop it from grinding to an expensive halt in the not-too-distant future. Perhaps people will consider their lifestyle choices more if they have to pay more towards the health consequences? I don't think they will. Look at America. They pay an awful lot of money for their health care and for some it is a choice of either paying the rent or seeing the Dr. All that will happen is the rich will pay and the poor will suffer. " Which is exactly why we need to look at ways of avoiding that happening right now - before it's too late!! The U.S. Has always been way behind us when it comes to social security and health care - but we don't have an infinite and never ending pot of cash. I simply think we (me included) take the NHS for granted and we all need to look after ourselves better and stop abusing it before it goes for good! Xx | |||
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"I do see where the op and others are coming from. It's not just smokers and the obese who are crippling the NHS - it's heavy drinkers and drug users too - but what percentage drinkers and drug users 'consume' compared to the obese and smokers I've no idea! The NHS was/is a wonderful idea - free healthcare for all who need it - but society has changed massively in the years since it was introduced - and a huge amount of money is being used to treat people with arguably self-imposed illnesses! I'm not sure what the answer is - maybe those who 'deliberately' increase risks to their health by being obese, smoking, drinking heavily and drug using should pay a health insurance/NI premium to help cover the cost of future treatments they're likely to need? To be honest it seems the only way we'll stop it from grinding to an expensive halt in the not-too-distant future. Perhaps people will consider their lifestyle choices more if they have to pay more towards the health consequences? I don't think they will. Look at America. They pay an awful lot of money for their health care and for some it is a choice of either paying the rent or seeing the Dr. All that will happen is the rich will pay and the poor will suffer. Which is exactly why we need to look at ways of avoiding that happening right now - before it's too late!! The U.S. Has always been way behind us when it comes to social security and health care - but we don't have an infinite and never ending pot of cash. I simply think we (me included) take the NHS for granted and we all need to look after ourselves better and stop abusing it before it goes for good! Xx" The pot is never ending when it comes to finding the money fir Trident, or wars, or HS2, or refurbishing Westminster, or giving MPs pay rises, or tax cit's for the rich, or corporations tax avoidance, or multimillionaires avoiding inheritance tax. The pots not empty and no one in the governmrnt mentions austerity when they are being discussed | |||
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"If you wanna go completely off piste and talk about better health outcomes, a friend of mine was asked to investigate the Cuban health system for possible lessons Mendip might glean. Cuba hasn't a pot to piss in but manages to achieve excellent outcomes none-the-less, and is renowned across the developing world for the quality of its doctors. How is this done? Simply put, prevention is better than cure. Neighbourhoods are assigned health workers who go around from house to house interviewing families and suggesting that they eat better, smoke less, whatever... and that way people live healthier lives. Pretty simple, really. But we wouldn't want the State to tell us what to do in a free country, so keep arguing about how awful it all is. As you were. "Of course the real reason Cuban doctors are so good is that the country is a hell hole that everyone wants to leave. Doctors are one of the few jobs that get to leave the country because they have a deal to trade doctors with oil from Venezuela. So the best and brightest train to be doctors, then move to Venezuela where they can defect and make their way to Miami where 1/3 of Cubans live. | |||
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" I don't think they will. Look at America. They pay an awful lot of money for their health care and for some it is a choice of either paying the rent or seeing the Dr. All that will happen is the rich will pay and the poor will suffer. The NHS is ranked 18th worldwide. America is ranked something awful like ~40th. If you want a model that produces superior results then there are 17 other countries you could look at, starting with our neighbours France. Presumably those rankings are for service. Rank then by profit and i suspect it's obvious why the tories are desperate to follow the American example " Bordering on a conspiracy theory there. Tories know how to get elected. Backing the world's worst health care system in the developed world is hardly good political strategy. Plenty of profit in the other ones to go around. | |||
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"If you wanna go completely off piste and talk about better health outcomes, a friend of mine was asked to investigate the Cuban health system for possible lessons Mendip might glean. Cuba hasn't a pot to piss in but manages to achieve excellent outcomes none-the-less, and is renowned across the developing world for the quality of its doctors. How is this done? Simply put, prevention is better than cure. Neighbourhoods are assigned health workers who go around from house to house interviewing families and suggesting that they eat better, smoke less, whatever... and that way people live healthier lives. Pretty simple, really. But we wouldn't want the State to tell us what to do in a free country, so keep arguing about how awful it all is. As you were.
Of course the real reason Cuban doctors are so good is that the country is a hell hole that everyone wants to leave. Doctors are one of the few jobs that get to leave the country because they have a deal to trade doctors with oil from Venezuela. So the best and brightest train to be doctors, then move to Venezuela where they can defect and make their way to Miami where 1/3 of Cubans live. "If you wish. But there is a reason that life expectancy in Cuba is higher than in the USA. | |||
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"If you wanna go completely off piste and talk about better health outcomes, a friend of mine was asked to investigate the Cuban health system for possible lessons Mendip might glean. Cuba hasn't a pot to piss in but manages to achieve excellent outcomes none-the-less, and is renowned across the developing world for the quality of its doctors. How is this done? Simply put, prevention is better than cure. Neighbourhoods are assigned health workers who go around from house to house interviewing families and suggesting that they eat better, smoke less, whatever... and that way people live healthier lives. Pretty simple, really. But we wouldn't want the State to tell us what to do in a free country, so keep arguing about how awful it all is. As you were.
Of course the real reason Cuban doctors are so good is that the country is a hell hole that everyone wants to leave. Doctors are one of the few jobs that get to leave the country because they have a deal to trade doctors with oil from Venezuela. So the best and brightest train to be doctors, then move to Venezuela where they can defect and make their way to Miami where 1/3 of Cubans live.
If you wish.
But there is a reason that life expectancy in Cuba is higher than in the USA.
"They have a good system relative to the wealth of their country. Of course their country is dirt poor because of their political choices (or lack thereof) | |||
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"If you wanna go completely off piste and talk about better health outcomes, a friend of mine was asked to investigate the Cuban health system for possible lessons Mendip might glean. Cuba hasn't a pot to piss in but manages to achieve excellent outcomes none-the-less, and is renowned across the developing world for the quality of its doctors. How is this done? Simply put, prevention is better than cure. Neighbourhoods are assigned health workers who go around from house to house interviewing families and suggesting that they eat better, smoke less, whatever... and that way people live healthier lives. Pretty simple, really. But we wouldn't want the State to tell us what to do in a free country, so keep arguing about how awful it all is. As you were.
Of course the real reason Cuban doctors are so good is that the country is a hell hole that everyone wants to leave. Doctors are one of the few jobs that get to leave the country because they have a deal to trade doctors with oil from Venezuela. So the best and brightest train to be doctors, then move to Venezuela where they can defect and make their way to Miami where 1/3 of Cubans live.
If you wish.
But there is a reason that life expectancy in Cuba is higher than in the USA.
They have a good system relative to the wealth of their country. Of course their country is dirt poor because of their political choices (or lack thereof) "You won;t concede the point that, through prevention, a directed economy can in this instance produce better health outcomes that its capitalist neighbour? | |||
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"If you wanna go completely off piste and talk about better health outcomes, a friend of mine was asked to investigate the Cuban health system for possible lessons Mendip might glean. Cuba hasn't a pot to piss in but manages to achieve excellent outcomes none-the-less, and is renowned across the developing world for the quality of its doctors. How is this done? Simply put, prevention is better than cure. Neighbourhoods are assigned health workers who go around from house to house interviewing families and suggesting that they eat better, smoke less, whatever... and that way people live healthier lives. Pretty simple, really. But we wouldn't want the State to tell us what to do in a free country, so keep arguing about how awful it all is. As you were.
Of course the real reason Cuban doctors are so good is that the country is a hell hole that everyone wants to leave. Doctors are one of the few jobs that get to leave the country because they have a deal to trade doctors with oil from Venezuela. So the best and brightest train to be doctors, then move to Venezuela where they can defect and make their way to Miami where 1/3 of Cubans live.
If you wish.
But there is a reason that life expectancy in Cuba is higher than in the USA.
They have a good system relative to the wealth of their country. Of course their country is dirt poor because of their political choices (or lack thereof)
You won;t concede the point that, through prevention, a directed economy can in this instance produce better health outcomes that its capitalist neighbour?
"Prevention is better than cure irrespective of the political system. I just don't understand the logic of people who start the benchmark at the world's 43rd best healthcare system that we are already superior to. | |||
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"One health trust has delayed hip and knee operations for people with a body mass index over 30. It's because the implants wear prematurely if you are over weight. Meaning that you have to have them revised earlier which costs the NHS a fortune. " That's actually not true as I had this exact discussion with my surgeon and physio only last week as I'm 12 weeks post op total knee replacement with second op next week. Research has shown there is no quicker deteriation of knee implants due to weight. | |||
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"If you wanna go completely off piste and talk about better health outcomes, a friend of mine was asked to investigate the Cuban health system for possible lessons Mendip might glean. Cuba hasn't a pot to piss in but manages to achieve excellent outcomes none-the-less, and is renowned across the developing world for the quality of its doctors. How is this done? Simply put, prevention is better than cure. Neighbourhoods are assigned health workers who go around from house to house interviewing families and suggesting that they eat better, smoke less, whatever... and that way people live healthier lives. Pretty simple, really. But we wouldn't want the State to tell us what to do in a free country, so keep arguing about how awful it all is. As you were.
Of course the real reason Cuban doctors are so good is that the country is a hell hole that everyone wants to leave. Doctors are one of the few jobs that get to leave the country because they have a deal to trade doctors with oil from Venezuela. So the best and brightest train to be doctors, then move to Venezuela where they can defect and make their way to Miami where 1/3 of Cubans live.
If you wish.
But there is a reason that life expectancy in Cuba is higher than in the USA.
They have a good system relative to the wealth of their country. Of course their country is dirt poor because of their political choices (or lack thereof)
You won;t concede the point that, through prevention, a directed economy can in this instance produce better health outcomes that its capitalist neighbour?
Prevention is better than cure irrespective of the political system. I just don't understand the logic of people who start the benchmark at the world's 43rd best healthcare system that we are already superior to. "Lol - thought not. But the point is simple - irrespective of political persuasion. All the people on the thread saying "It's disgusting, it's disgraceful," "Fat people are people too..." Whatever. Here's a very simple way to a) keep people healthier for longer b) save on a lot of pain and suffering, and c) save a bunch of cash. I'm off for a fag. | |||
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" But the point is simple - irrespective of political persuasion. All the people on the thread saying "It's disgusting, it's disgraceful," "Fat people are people too..." Whatever. Here's a very simple way to a) keep people healthier for longer b) save on a lot of pain and suffering, and c) save a bunch of cash. I'm off for a fag. "But it goes against the founding principles of the NHS. That healthcare is a right that should be free at the point of use to all. That's based on the assumption that people wouldn't use it more than they needed. You can't then realise that the founding principles are stupid and too expensive and then start to cut them back to some kind of half assed system that has none of the benefits of a private one and none of the benefits of a state one! It's just another case of all people being equal, but slim ones being more equal than others. | |||
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"If you wanna go completely off piste and talk about better health outcomes, a friend of mine was asked to investigate the Cuban health system for possible lessons Mendip might glean. Cuba hasn't a pot to piss in but manages to achieve excellent outcomes none-the-less, and is renowned across the developing world for the quality of its doctors. How is this done? Simply put, prevention is better than cure. Neighbourhoods are assigned health workers who go around from house to house interviewing families and suggesting that they eat better, smoke less, whatever... and that way people live healthier lives. Pretty simple, really. But we wouldn't want the State to tell us what to do in a free country, so keep arguing about how awful it all is. As you were.
Of course the real reason Cuban doctors are so good is that the country is a hell hole that everyone wants to leave. Doctors are one of the few jobs that get to leave the country because they have a deal to trade doctors with oil from Venezuela. So the best and brightest train to be doctors, then move to Venezuela where they can defect and make their way to Miami where 1/3 of Cubans live.
If you wish.
But there is a reason that life expectancy in Cuba is higher than in the USA.
"Yeah - many Americans are currently trying to eat themselves to death - the Cubans couldn't afford to even if they wanted to! | |||
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"I'm ok with being denied elective treatment for being too fat, although it does rankle a bit. But I wish they'd also refuse treatment to idiots with no common sense who go to A&E every time they twist their ankle or their kid has a runny nose, then complain because it took 4 hours to see them. Or people who have excessive numbers of children. And a multitude of other things I disagree with. People can't be trusted with the NHS because people are fuckwits. " I agree absolutely Hun! | |||
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"I'm ok with being denied elective treatment for being too fat, although it does rankle a bit. But I wish they'd also refuse treatment to idiots with no common sense who go to A&E every time they twist their ankle or their kid has a runny nose, then complain because it took 4 hours to see them. Or people who have excessive numbers of children. And a multitude of other things I disagree with. People can't be trusted with the NHS because people are fuckwits. I agree absolutely Hun! "Deviating quite far from the principles of a national health service though? | |||
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"I'm ok with being denied elective treatment for being too fat, although it does rankle a bit. But I wish they'd also refuse treatment to idiots with no common sense who go to A&E every time they twist their ankle or their kid has a runny nose, then complain because it took 4 hours to see them. Or people who have excessive numbers of children. And a multitude of other things I disagree with. People can't be trusted with the NHS because people are fuckwits. I agree absolutely Hun!
Deviating quite far from the principles of a national health service though? "Yes. But society is very different today from when the NHS was founded. Medicine has evolved. New surgical techniques and equipment are now available. The principle is a good one. But I'm afraid it isn't sustainable now, even without those who dont take ownership of their own health x | |||
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"I'm ok with being denied elective treatment for being too fat, although it does rankle a bit. But I wish they'd also refuse treatment to idiots with no common sense who go to A&E every time they twist their ankle or their kid has a runny nose, then complain because it took 4 hours to see them. Or people who have excessive numbers of children. And a multitude of other things I disagree with. People can't be trusted with the NHS because people are fuckwits. I agree absolutely Hun!
Deviating quite far from the principles of a national health service though? "Yep. But if I'm not getting treatment for a specific reason I don't want those fuckers getting it either. | |||
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"I'm ok with being denied elective treatment for being too fat, although it does rankle a bit. But I wish they'd also refuse treatment to idiots with no common sense who go to A&E every time they twist their ankle or their kid has a runny nose, then complain because it took 4 hours to see them. Or people who have excessive numbers of children. And a multitude of other things I disagree with. People can't be trusted with the NHS because people are fuckwits. I agree absolutely Hun!
Deviating quite far from the principles of a national health service though?
Yep. But if I'm not getting treatment for a specific reason I don't want those fuckers getting it either."You just made me snigger out loud!! I missed you! | |||
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"I'm ok with being denied elective treatment for being too fat, although it does rankle a bit. But I wish they'd also refuse treatment to idiots with no common sense who go to A&E every time they twist their ankle or their kid has a runny nose, then complain because it took 4 hours to see them. Or people who have excessive numbers of children. And a multitude of other things I disagree with. People can't be trusted with the NHS because people are fuckwits. I agree absolutely Hun!
Deviating quite far from the principles of a national health service though?
Yes. But society is very different today from when the NHS was founded. Medicine has evolved. New surgical techniques and equipment are now available.
The principle is a good one. But I'm afraid it isn't sustainable now, even without those who dont take ownership of their own health x"If it does collapse then i won't miss it. I nearly died when I was refused an ambulance and one of my closest friends is permanently disabled because of a misdiagnosis. But there's no alternative supplier in a monopoly so you just get told to be grateful for the misdiagnosis you got. | |||
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"I'm ok with being denied elective treatment for being too fat, although it does rankle a bit. But I wish they'd also refuse treatment to idiots with no common sense who go to A&E every time they twist their ankle or their kid has a runny nose, then complain because it took 4 hours to see them. Or people who have excessive numbers of children. And a multitude of other things I disagree with. People can't be trusted with the NHS because people are fuckwits. I agree absolutely Hun!
Deviating quite far from the principles of a national health service though?
Yes. But society is very different today from when the NHS was founded. Medicine has evolved. New surgical techniques and equipment are now available.
The principle is a good one. But I'm afraid it isn't sustainable now, even without those who dont take ownership of their own health x
If it does collapse then i won't miss it. I nearly died when I was refused an ambulance and one of my closest friends is permanently disabled because of a misdiagnosis. But there's no alternative supplier in a monopoly so you just get told to be grateful for the misdiagnosis you got. "I've had family who haven't received the best care either. My philosophy is to try and take care of myself as far as possible to minimise any need to use the service. I have two chronic conditions, neither self inflicted, that mean I do need to access services occasionally. Private healthcare wont cover either of those now unfortunately x | |||
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"My grandma was one of the first people to have new knees and thats about 42 years ago and she had to lose weight then" yep mother in law had one knee replaced 15 ish years ago was told to lose weight had her other knee done about 3 weeks ago and told to lose weight so its just more media junk in fact everyone I know who have had ops are told to lose weight before a op if they can lol | |||
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" I've had family who haven't received the best care either. My philosophy is to try and take care of myself as far as possible to minimise any need to use the service. I have two chronic conditions, neither self inflicted, that mean I do need to access services occasionally. Private healthcare wont cover either of those now unfortunately x" What makes me so angry is that I could have killed someone. I had to drive myself to hospital whilst passing kidney stones. How the fuck can you drive safely whilst passing a kidney stone? I was stopping every couple of hundred meters to puke out the side of my car! I was a danger to everyone else on the road that day and could have easily killed someone. I'll never forgive the NHS for that. I wanted to take them to court afterwards and was just told "well nobody actually got hurt". Brilliant logic, there's no punishment because I managed not to run some poor fucker over. | |||
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" I've had family who haven't received the best care either. My philosophy is to try and take care of myself as far as possible to minimise any need to use the service. I have two chronic conditions, neither self inflicted, that mean I do need to access services occasionally. Private healthcare wont cover either of those now unfortunately x What makes me so angry is that I could have killed someone. I had to drive myself to hospital whilst passing kidney stones. How the fuck can you drive safely whilst passing a kidney stone? I was stopping every couple of hundred meters to puke out the side of my car! I was a danger to everyone else on the road that day and could have easily killed someone. I'll never forgive the NHS for that. I wanted to take them to court afterwards and was just told "well nobody actually got hurt". Brilliant logic, there's no punishment because I managed not to run some poor fucker over. " The problem is that even if you had taken them to court and won, would lessons have been learnt? I don't know what the answer is to sort out the NHS that is fair to all  x | |||
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" I've had family who haven't received the best care either. My philosophy is to try and take care of myself as far as possible to minimise any need to use the service. I have two chronic conditions, neither self inflicted, that mean I do need to access services occasionally. Private healthcare wont cover either of those now unfortunately x What makes me so angry is that I could have killed someone. I had to drive myself to hospital whilst passing kidney stones. How the fuck can you drive safely whilst passing a kidney stone? I was stopping every couple of hundred meters to puke out the side of my car! I was a danger to everyone else on the road that day and could have easily killed someone. I'll never forgive the NHS for that. I wanted to take them to court afterwards and was just told "well nobody actually got hurt". Brilliant logic, there's no punishment because I managed not to run some poor fucker over. The problem is that even if you had taken them to court and won, would lessons have been learnt? I don't know what the answer is to sort out the NHS that is fair to all x"I just think it's one of those organisations that doesn't listen until there's a financial penalty to ignoring you. Most large organisations are like that. I'd also been into the hospital the day before and sent home being told I just dehydrated!! | |||
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"My grandma was one of the first people to have new knees and thats about 42 years ago and she had to lose weight then yep mother in law had one knee replaced 15 ish years ago was told to lose weight had her other knee done about 3 weeks ago and told to lose weight so its just more media junk in fact everyone I know who have had ops are told to lose weight before a op if they can lol" They checked my weight before my hysterectomy and I know I was much fatter then. They still did the operation saying I was just under the weight limit. Maybe they are moving the goalposts to get out of even more operations. | |||
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"I thought nhs was getting 350mill a week, seems brexit is not delivering." Ummm , you do realise we have not left yet? | |||
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"my gp referred me about having a gastric sleeve done but they refused to do it sent me for therapy for 6 weeks which i attended but didnt help me i tried to get help the NHS does not do enough to help anyone with a weight problem IMO" What's caused the problem do you know? | |||
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"I thought nhs was getting 350mill a week, seems brexit is not delivering. Ummm , you do realise we have not left yet?" Classic  | |||
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"I thought nhs was getting 350mill a week, seems brexit is not delivering. Ummm , you do realise we have not left yet?" And it won't be getting it after we have either. If the government wanted to give the NHS an extra £350m per week it would do it now. | |||
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"Smokers should go to the front of the queue. The tax they pay far outweighs their cost to the NHS; And the reality ( not the propaganda) shows that people with so called " smoking related diseases " would have actually got those diseases anyway. Propaganda? Are you being serious? Next you'll be telling us seatbelts don't save lives You should research the reality of the statistics. And if you want to be pedantic, no, seat belts don't save lives; nor do airbags; because drivers feel safer, so they drive far less cautiously than they did 50 years ago, have accidents and kill pedestrians, so seat belts indirectly kill pedestrians . " Oh dear | |||
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"I thought nhs was getting 350mill a week, seems brexit is not delivering. Ummm , you do realise we have not left yet? And it won't be getting it after we have either. If the government wanted to give the NHS an extra £350m per week it would do it now." From the endless pot of money? Dont get me wrong , im no tory , dont like them but i will be glad when its our own corrupt politicians spending the money rather than the even more corrupt ones in brussels! | |||
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"To a point I agree as gross obesity and smoking costs the health service an awful lot of money but,why single out just two types of patient.
And the tax on cigarettes goes towards the healthcare of those that smoke and those who don't smoke
Doesn't go towards, it far out weighs, tobacco tax income is greater than smoking related NHS outgoings
They should just ban smoking."They should also ban drinking, that cost the NHS far more than smoking related illnesses | |||
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"They should also ban drinking, that cost the NHS far more than smoking related illnesses " | |||
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"To a point I agree as gross obesity and smoking costs the health service an awful lot of money but,why single out just two types of patient.
And the tax on cigarettes goes towards the healthcare of those that smoke and those who don't smoke
Doesn't go towards, it far out weighs, tobacco tax income is greater than smoking related NHS outgoings
They should just ban smoking.
They should also ban drinking, that cost the NHS far more than smoking related illnesses "Why not just ban all forms of fun, that way people won't want healthcare because they'd rather be dead than alive. | |||
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"To a point I agree as gross obesity and smoking costs the health service an awful lot of money but,why single out just two types of patient.
And the tax on cigarettes goes towards the healthcare of those that smoke and those who don't smoke
Doesn't go towards, it far out weighs, tobacco tax income is greater than smoking related NHS outgoings
They should just ban smoking.
They should also ban drinking, that cost the NHS far more than smoking related illnesses
Why not just ban all forms of fun, that way people won't want healthcare because they'd rather be dead than alive. "That made me giggle! x | |||
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"To a point I agree as gross obesity and smoking costs the health service an awful lot of money but,why single out just two types of patient.
And the tax on cigarettes goes towards the healthcare of those that smoke and those who don't smoke
Doesn't go towards, it far out weighs, tobacco tax income is greater than smoking related NHS outgoings
They should just ban smoking.
They should also ban drinking, that cost the NHS far more than smoking related illnesses
Why not just ban all forms of fun, that way people won't want healthcare because they'd rather be dead than alive.
That made me giggle! x"It is the logical conclusion of the people who go around looking for things to ban! There are actually countries in the world that ban swinging so people should be careful what they wish for. | |||
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"To a point I agree as gross obesity and smoking costs the health service an awful lot of money but,why single out just two types of patient.
And the tax on cigarettes goes towards the healthcare of those that smoke and those who don't smoke
Doesn't go towards, it far out weighs, tobacco tax income is greater than smoking related NHS outgoings
They should just ban smoking.
They should also ban drinking, that cost the NHS far more than smoking related illnesses
Why not just ban all forms of fun, that way people won't want healthcare because they'd rather be dead than alive.
That made me giggle! x
It is the logical conclusion of the people who go around looking for things to ban! There are actually countries in the world that ban swinging so people should be careful what they wish for. "And so they should , its disgraceful  x
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"They should also ban drinking, that cost the NHS far more than smoking related illnesses
Why not just ban all forms of fun, that way people won't want healthcare because they'd rather be dead than alive. "I think the point is that if you're going to single out one or more groups there are others just as likely to cause a strain on the NHS. | |||
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"They should also ban drinking, that cost the NHS far more than smoking related illnesses
Why not just ban all forms of fun, that way people won't want healthcare because they'd rather be dead than alive.
I think the point is that if you're going to single out one or more groups there are others just as likely to cause a strain on the NHS."Which is why I was arguing earlier that you either have a service that is free at the point of us for all or have an insurance based model. There are pros and cons to both, but a national health service that starts to restrict groups have all the cons and none of the pros. | |||
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"They should also ban drinking, that cost the NHS far more than smoking related illnesses
Why not just ban all forms of fun, that way people won't want healthcare because they'd rather be dead than alive.
I think the point is that if you're going to single out one or more groups there are others just as likely to cause a strain on the NHS.
Which is why I was arguing earlier that you either have a service that is free at the point of us for all or have an insurance based model. There are pros and cons to both, but a national health service that starts to restrict groups have all the cons and none of the pros. "I agree | |||
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"They should also ban drinking, that cost the NHS far more than smoking related illnesses
Why not just ban all forms of fun, that way people won't want healthcare because they'd rather be dead than alive.
I think the point is that if you're going to single out one or more groups there are others just as likely to cause a strain on the NHS.
Which is why I was arguing earlier that you either have a service that is free at the point of us for all or have an insurance based model. There are pros and cons to both, but a national health service that starts to restrict groups have all the cons and none of the pros.
I agree "Free at the point of need please. As imperfect as the NHS is, I think it's one of the best ideas that socialists have had in the last 70 years | |||
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"They should also ban drinking, that cost the NHS far more than smoking related illnesses
Why not just ban all forms of fun, that way people won't want healthcare because they'd rather be dead than alive.
I think the point is that if you're going to single out one or more groups there are others just as likely to cause a strain on the NHS.
Which is why I was arguing earlier that you either have a service that is free at the point of us for all or have an insurance based model. There are pros and cons to both, but a national health service that starts to restrict groups have all the cons and none of the pros.
I agree
Free at the point of need please.
As imperfect as the NHS is, I think it's one of the best ideas that socialists have had in the last 70 years "Better than gulags, yes | |||
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"They should also ban drinking, that cost the NHS far more than smoking related illnesses
Why not just ban all forms of fun, that way people won't want healthcare because they'd rather be dead than alive.
I think the point is that if you're going to single out one or more groups there are others just as likely to cause a strain on the NHS.
Which is why I was arguing earlier that you either have a service that is free at the point of us for all or have an insurance based model. There are pros and cons to both, but a national health service that starts to restrict groups have all the cons and none of the pros.
I agree
Free at the point of need please.
As imperfect as the NHS is, I think it's one of the best ideas that socialists have had in the last 70 years
Better than gulags, yes"Don't recall any Gulags in the UK ? | |||
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"Deal I would ban experts. Experts tend to cause more problems than anyone else and create these scenarios where one person shouldn't receive something because of some logical explanation or another. If we banned experts completely and just let people get on with what they need to do, the world would be a better place. .....and please, no-one get me started on management consultants, traffic wardens, telephone sanitisers or pet beauticians." So you want people who are shit at everything running everything. That's an excellent plan. | |||
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".....and please, no-one get me started on management consultants, traffic wardens, telephone sanitisers or pet beauticians." Ark B | |||
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"One health trust has delayed hip and knee operations for people with a body mass index over 30." Exactly they are not banning them they are saying we won't operate if you don't get healthier....it's sensational type journolism etc. Operations carry a risk so that makes good sense. | |||
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"Deal I would ban experts. Experts tend to cause more problems than anyone else and create these scenarios where one person shouldn't receive something because of some logical explanation or another. If we banned experts completely and just let people get on with what they need to do, the world would be a better place. .....and please, no-one get me started on management consultants, traffic wardens, telephone sanitisers or pet beauticians. So you want people who are shit at everything running everything. That's an excellent plan. " I would rather people who know what they are talking about running everything. | |||
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"One health trust has delayed hip and knee operations for people with a body mass index over 30." Most do don't they? Its about the physio and getting going again? | |||
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"I don't think it's a blanket ban like that. If it's being reported as such, it's sensationalist journalism. " Absolutely right, the Daily Mail, Express, Sun, Mirror and The Times have a lot to answer for as far as biased journalism goes. Look at the way Brexit was reported! | |||
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"Deal I would ban experts. Experts tend to cause more problems than anyone else and create these scenarios where one person shouldn't receive something because of some logical explanation or another. If we banned experts completely and just let people get on with what they need to do, the world would be a better place. .....and please, no-one get me started on management consultants, traffic wardens, telephone sanitisers or pet beauticians. So you want people who are shit at everything running everything. That's an excellent plan. I would rather people who know what they are talking about running everything. " People who know what they're talking about like...experts? | |||
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"One health trust has delayed hip and knee operations for people with a body mass index over 30. Exactly they are not banning them they are saying we won't operate if you don't get healthier....it's sensational type journolism etc. Operations carry a risk so that makes good sense. " A BMI above 30 puts an immense strain on the heart and under anesthetic . . . | |||
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" Though, if healthy food was cheaper than crap food, it's possible that less of these types of surgery would be needed in first place. " That is a myth, good fresh food isn't expensive anymore. | |||
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"Deal I would ban experts. Experts tend to cause more problems than anyone else and create these scenarios where one person shouldn't receive something because of some logical explanation or another. If we banned experts completely and just let people get on with what they need to do, the world would be a better place. .....and please, no-one get me started on management consultants, traffic wardens, telephone sanitisers or pet beauticians. So you want people who are shit at everything running everything. That's an excellent plan. I would rather people who know what they are talking about running everything. People who know what they're talking about like...experts?" Self defined experts..... I take it that you are either a telephone sanitiser or a management consultant? | |||
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"Deal I would ban experts. Experts tend to cause more problems than anyone else and create these scenarios where one person shouldn't receive something because of some logical explanation or another. If we banned experts completely and just let people get on with what they need to do, the world would be a better place. .....and please, no-one get me started on management consultants, traffic wardens, telephone sanitisers or pet beauticians. So you want people who are shit at everything running everything. That's an excellent plan. I would rather people who know what they are talking about running everything. People who know what they're talking about like...experts? Self defined experts..... I take it that you are either a telephone sanitiser or a management consultant? "Nope. But I'm an expert in my field | |||
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" Though, if healthy food was cheaper than crap food, it's possible that less of these types of surgery would be needed in first place. That is a myth, good fresh food isn't expensive anymore." Sort of. You can definitely eat a low calorie, nutritious diet for about the same price as one of chips and burgers. But meat products are expensive and it's hard to get enough protein without meat. | |||
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" Nope. But I'm an expert in my field "Glad to hear it.....and if I ever need a field in which your expertise extends, I will think of you. | |||
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" Though, if healthy food was cheaper than crap food, it's possible that less of these types of surgery would be needed in first place. That is a myth, good fresh food isn't expensive anymore. Sort of. You can definitely eat a low calorie, nutritious diet for about the same price as one of chips and burgers. But meat products are expensive and it's hard to get enough protein without meat. " And you need to feel full. | |||
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" Though, if healthy food was cheaper than crap food, it's possible that less of these types of surgery would be needed in first place. That is a myth, good fresh food isn't expensive anymore. Sort of. You can definitely eat a low calorie, nutritious diet for about the same price as one of chips and burgers. But meat products are expensive and it's hard to get enough protein without meat. " It isn't where we live. Well not in relation to buying processed instead. | |||
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" Though, if healthy food was cheaper than crap food, it's possible that less of these types of surgery would be needed in first place. That is a myth, good fresh food isn't expensive anymore. Sort of. You can definitely eat a low calorie, nutritious diet for about the same price as one of chips and burgers. But meat products are expensive and it's hard to get enough protein without meat. And you need to feel full. " A piece of chicken , a load of veg and a couple of potatoes fills me up more than a burger and chips would. | |||
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