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Male singledom
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"Does anyone else feel like it's much, much harder in the modern world for a male to find companionship, and not just on this site? Ever since I was a teen, I couldn't help but notice that pretty much every girl was either spoken for, or had at least one lad who was trying it on with her, and today it's no different. Not only is this site utterly saturated with single guys, I've lost track of the number of times I've seen multiple guys clamouring after one or two girls in public, girls just out for a stroll accompanied by at least two male 'friends', groups of guys hanging around one particularly good looking girl in a bar etc. It's also known that the suicide rate in males across the world are vastly higher in males than females. Any thoughts on this? Is modern society diminishing the value of the human male? Or are we simply less manly than our grandfathers? " Suicide rates amongst men have always been higher in men I think, more because they don't talk and unload what's bothering them. I think men these days are a lot more sensitive, or appear to be. I feel it's just as hard for women to seek companionship. Certainly on "normal" dating sites. Men always seem to keep their options open and date multiple women whereas the women are keen to put their eggs in one basket. | |||
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"I feel it's just as hard for women to seek companionship. Certainly on "normal" dating sites. Men always seem to keep their options open and date multiple women whereas the women are keen to put their eggs in one basket. " You're kidding right? I used POF for a few months before giving it up this year, and it was far, far worse than a few years before. Nearly impossible to get a reply from any woman on there, and the ones who did were frustratingly uncommunicative afterwards and barely capable of holding a conversation - I don't know if this was because they were genuinely uninteresting, or just didn't feel like they had to TRY. Perhaps guys simply 'keep their options open' because they feel they have to, in a world where women are so in demand, it's actually the guys who can't afford to invest their emotions into a single woman - and form the basis of a healthy, happy, and possibly life long loving relationship. | |||
" Suicide rates amongst men have always been higher in men I think, more because they don't talk and unload what's bothering them. I think men these days are a lot more sensitive, or appear to be. " Wow I'm sensitive now and bored line suicidal after that comment I only want one egg | |||
"I don't get the maths SB to be honest (don't worry I'm a bit dim). According to the last census in 2011 there was 27.6m men and 28.5m women in England and Wales. So statistically the women should be fighting over us men? Help a confused brother out a bit here .. "Statistically women should be fighting over men??? Or some men could be more accommodating and take care of more than one woman?? Nah,,never get them to agree to that. | |||
"I don't get the maths SB to be honest (don't worry I'm a bit dim). According to the last census in 2011 there was 27.6m men and 28.5m women in England and Wales. So statistically the women should be fighting over us men? Help a confused brother out a bit here .. "Women are like buses: when you got one three more turn up. It was better in the days of the Routemaster when you could jump off one and on another. | |||
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"I don't get the maths SB to be honest (don't worry I'm a bit dim). According to the last census in 2011 there was 27.6m men and 28.5m women in England and Wales. So statistically the women should be fighting over us men? Help a confused brother out a bit here ..
Statistically women should be fighting over men??? Or some men could be more accommodating and take care of more than one woman?? Nah,,never get them to agree to that. " ha x
If SB is right though - and there's packs of men after one woman (let's assume, for arguments sake, 10 unique men to one unique woman to keep things simple) then, assuming they're all off lusting after their woman of choice all at once at a ratio of 10 to 1, there will be 27.6m men after 2.76m women before all the men are fully utilised.
What about the (just under) 26m of women left that aren't being lusted after? No - I need help with the mathematical modelling I think!  | |||
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"Does anyone else feel like it's much, much harder in the modern world for a male to find companionship, and not just on this site? Ever since I was a teen, I couldn't help but notice that pretty much every girl was either spoken for, or had at least one lad who was trying it on with her, and today it's no different. Not only is this site utterly saturated with single guys, I've lost track of the number of times I've seen multiple guys clamouring after one or two girls in public, girls just out for a stroll accompanied by at least two male 'friends', groups of guys hanging around one particularly good looking girl in a bar etc. It's also known that the suicide rate in males across the world are vastly higher in males than females. Any thoughts on this? Is modern society diminishing the value of the human male? Or are we simply less manly than our grandfathers? " I'm more than happy to be single and have sex only when I'm Horny trouble is I'm constantly being harassed by guy's who ain't compatible Me!      | |||
"I feel it's just as hard for women to seek companionship. Certainly on "normal" dating sites. Men always seem to keep their options open and date multiple women whereas the women are keen to put their eggs in one basket. You're kidding right? I used POF for a few months before giving it up this year, and it was far, far worse than a few years before. Nearly impossible to get a reply from any woman on there, and the ones who did were frustratingly uncommunicative afterwards and barely capable of holding a conversation - I don't know if this was because they were genuinely uninteresting, or just didn't feel like they had to TRY. Perhaps guys simply 'keep their options open' because they feel they have to, in a world where women are so in demand, it's actually the guys who can't afford to invest their emotions into a single woman - and form the basis of a healthy, happy, and possibly life long loving relationship." No I wasn't joking. Just sharing my experience of POF. Perhaps the experience varies region to region? | |||
"Men who are perhaps not social power houses have, I think, to adopt specific strategies that will bring them into contact with the right sort of partners. It's not about the millions of potential people that you could be dating, the millions that are spoken for, the millions that are looking for someone who's different to you. It is about meeting the types of people who are right for you, where you have greater potential to get along and where you'll not be under inappropriate pressure to compete with other guys that would not do you justice. You're just looking for one partner and so it'll probably meeting a number of people to get to know them, so that you can find the right person, who's also into you. Focus on what's feasible for you and less on what's happening out there that would hint that it's almost impossible." I see what you're saying Sophie and a lot of it makes sense, but it doesn't change my frustration toward the issue, not just on here but with the world at large. I know I'm a guy with a lot to give to the right person, yet I feel all too often, I'm judged on the surface, my individuality is pushed to the back, and then when it DOES reveal itself, it's through anger and frustration at being treated that way, which doesn't show the best of me. I'll happily admit that I have an intense personality which can scare people off, and yet if I was a woman, I'd probably be admired for my 'strong character' and seen as all the more attractive for it, rather than someone who makes those around them feel nervous. | |||
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"Men who are perhaps not social power houses have, I think, to adopt specific strategies that will bring them into contact with the right sort of partners. It's not about the millions of potential people that you could be dating, the millions that are spoken for, the millions that are looking for someone who's different to you. It is about meeting the types of people who are right for you, where you have greater potential to get along and where you'll not be under inappropriate pressure to compete with other guys that would not do you justice. You're just looking for one partner and so it'll probably meeting a number of people to get to know them, so that you can find the right person, who's also into you. Focus on what's feasible for you and less on what's happening out there that would hint that it's almost impossible. I see what you're saying Sophie and a lot of it makes sense, but it doesn't change my frustration toward the issue, not just on here but with the world at large. I know I'm a guy with a lot to give to the right person, yet I feel all too often, I'm judged on the surface, my individuality is pushed to the back, and then when it DOES reveal itself, it's through anger and frustration at being treated that way, which doesn't show the best of me. I'll happily admit that I have an intense personality which can scare people off, and yet if I was a woman, I'd probably be admired for my 'strong character' and seen as all the more attractive for it, rather than someone who makes those around them feel nervous." Ah should I say anything or keep my oar out of the water!? Ah fuck it I'm going to say it anyway and I hope it's taken in the right spirit as an independent no agenda observation rather than as someone having a dig or anything like that. You see, to me as an independent observer, that sounds like you're blaming others for them not "getting you" or not seeing the "real" you. It's their fault, not yours. Yet it's your frustration, your anger (according to your words - I have to take that at face value as I don't know you from Adam) that manifests itself and it's you that is letting your individuality be pushed to the back not them. Now clearly you're a big muscular guy, and if anger and frustration (as well as a self-described 'intense personality') is what manifests itself to them then I can only guess that might come across as quite a daunting spectacle. I'm not so sure a big muscular lady with self-confessed anger issues would be deemed as an attractive 'strong character' to be honest. Now from your forum presence you always come across as a decent thoughtful fellow and I'm quite sure you would be an amazing catch for some lucky person out there. But you (maybe? I don't know but it's just my random musings and observation) might need to accept first that YOU can make a difference and manage how people perceive you rather than get frustrated and blame them when they don't get you and end up with other guys. Anyway - tell me to f**k off if you want as it's none of my business but as you posted on here I thought I'd share my (genuinely unbiased) musings as I know you're an intelligent guy who will hopefully see the intention it's written in  | |||
. I have given up on dating sites as all I ever found on them were abusive women and I really don't need accusing of things I had never even thought of. | |||
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"I feel it's just as hard for women to seek companionship. Certainly on "normal" dating sites. Men always seem to keep their options open and date multiple women whereas the women are keen to put their eggs in one basket. You're kidding right? I used POF for a few months before giving it up this year, and it was far, far worse than a few years before. Nearly impossible to get a reply from any woman on there, and the ones who did were frustratingly uncommunicative afterwards and barely capable of holding a conversation - I don't know if this was because they were genuinely uninteresting, or just didn't feel like they had to TRY. Perhaps guys simply 'keep their options open' because they feel they have to, in a world where women are so in demand, it's actually the guys who can't afford to invest their emotions into a single woman - and form the basis of a healthy, happy, and possibly life long loving relationship." Odd as I've seen comments on here from guys who did better on pof than here | |||
"You see, to me as an independent observer, that sounds like you're blaming others for them not "getting you" or not seeing the "real" you. It's their fault, not yours." I'm sure you're aware that it takes two to tango. One person can do their best to try and be a catch, but if the people they attempt to impress don't respond, nothings going to come of it. It's easy to say 'the world is what you make it' or 'get up and try again' but no one is invincible, there are only so many failed attempts you can make, before the negative feelings from prior failures start to taint your efforts . "Yet it's your frustration, your anger (according to your words - I have to take that at face value as I don't know you from Adam) that manifests itself and it's you that is letting your individuality be pushed to the back not them." See above. If a person can honestly keep smiling and continue their search after having so many doors slammed in their faces then fair play to them, perhaps their character is stronger than mine, but sometimes the game itself is the problem, not the player. If a man falls when running up a greasy slope, is it his fault for just not trying hard enough? "Now clearly you're a big muscular guy, and if anger and frustration (as well as a self-described 'intense personality') is what manifests itself to them then I can only guess that might come across as quite a daunting spectacle." Reminds me of the story of the dragon and the kitten I heard as a kid. Long story short, everyone was scared of the dragon until one day they saw it playing with a kitten - the moral being don't judge anyone without knowing them, and yet single males get judged VERY quickly in this world, and it's typically negative. "I'm not so sure a big muscular lady with self-confessed anger issues would be deemed as an attractive 'strong character' to be honest." The Williams sisters are pretty well built and passionately outspoken, and are portrayed as all the better and stronger for it. "Now from your forum presence you always come across as a decent thoughtful fellow and I'm quite sure you would be an amazing catch for some lucky person out there." Thankyou...and I won't tell you to fuck off, I'd get a forum ban  | |||
"I think a lot of people seek out companionship because they haven't completed themselves. If everyone was happy with themselves we'd see a lot less people settling, and loads of people do settle. So at least if you can't find what you want, and aren't clamouring all over anything that might be what you want, then at least you're not settling. Mens' value has diminished somewhat yes, but only because women no longer have to be dependent on them. This is a good thing though it means men should be taken at face value for who they are and become an addition to your already comfortable life, not something to be sought out because it has financial value." I've heard that 'incomplete' thing before, and for the most part think it's a load of crap. We're BORN incomplete, men and women cannot perpetuate themselves alone, hence why we need each other. I hear lots of people say 'I don't need a man/woman, I'm happy single!' It'd be interesting to see if they still thought that as their years draw to an end - no partner, no family, just fading memories of their one, finite life they chose to spend alone. | |||
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"I think a lot of people seek out companionship because they haven't completed themselves. If everyone was happy with themselves we'd see a lot less people settling, and loads of people do settle. So at least if you can't find what you want, and aren't clamouring all over anything that might be what you want, then at least you're not settling. Mens' value has diminished somewhat yes, but only because women no longer have to be dependent on them. This is a good thing though it means men should be taken at face value for who they are and become an addition to your already comfortable life, not something to be sought out because it has financial value. I've heard that 'incomplete' thing before, and for the most part think it's a load of crap. We're BORN incomplete, men and women cannot perpetuate themselves alone, hence why we need each other. I hear lots of people say 'I don't need a man/woman, I'm happy single!' It'd be interesting to see if they still thought that as their years draw to an end - no partner, no family, just fading memories of their one, finite life they chose to spend alone." I'm highly independent. But even i'm looking for a partner. Not to complete me but to enhance what i already have, hence i will not settle and am not really caring whether i find someone or not. | |||
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"Personally OP, to me you seem like far too much hard work. We all love some deep and meaningful conversations but we also love small talk and the simple things in life and I don't get the impression you are capable of that. Sorry, just my opinion." You'd be surprised, I have one of the silliest senses of humour anyone will ever come across, well, those who want to get closer anyway. | |||
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"I have alwais been single and on my own and I prefer my own company. I am just to busy with bodybuilding and meal prepping. The quest in my life is reaching my full potential of building the perfect aesthetic body." pretty sure you've reached that point. | |||
"I don't get the maths SB to be honest (don't worry I'm a bit dim). According to the last census in 2011 there was 27.6m men and 28.5m women in England and Wales. So statistically the women should be fighting over us men? Help a confused brother out a bit here .. "How many were oaps? | |||
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"I have alwais been single and on my own and I prefer my own company. I am just to busy with bodybuilding and meal prepping. The quest in my life is reaching my full potential of building the perfect aesthetic body. pretty sure you've reached that point. "That is right and I think so as well, that is why I am getting to the next level, to achieve the dry look with the striations everywhere, would be cool | |||
"I have alwais been single and on my own and I prefer my own company. I am just to busy with bodybuilding and meal prepping. The quest in my life is reaching my full potential of building the perfect aesthetic body. pretty sure you've reached that point.
That is right and I think so as well, that is why I am getting to the next level, to achieve the dry look with the striations everywhere, would be cool "i have no idea what that means but good luck. | |||
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"I have alwais been single and on my own and I prefer my own company. I am just to busy with bodybuilding and meal prepping. The quest in my life is reaching my full potential of building the perfect aesthetic body. pretty sure you've reached that point.
That is right and I think so as well, that is why I am getting to the next level, to achieve the dry look with the striations everywhere, would be cool
i have no idea what that means but good luck. "Striations means you can see the veins more clearly on the body and thanks | |||
"I have alwais been single and on my own and I prefer my own company. I am just to busy with bodybuilding and meal prepping. The quest in my life is reaching my full potential of building the perfect aesthetic body. pretty sure you've reached that point.
That is right and I think so as well, that is why I am getting to the next level, to achieve the dry look with the striations everywhere, would be cool
i have no idea what that means but good luck. Striations means you can see the veins more clearly on the body and thanks "oh right. had no idea that was a thing. | |||
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"You see, to me as an independent observer, that sounds like you're blaming others for them not "getting you" or not seeing the "real" you. It's their fault, not yours. I'm sure you're aware that it takes two to tango. One person can do their best to try and be a catch, but if the people they attempt to impress don't respond, nothings going to come of it. It's easy to say 'the world is what you make it' or 'get up and try again' but no one is invincible, there are only so many failed attempts you can make, before the negative feelings from prior failures start to taint your efforts . Yet it's your frustration, your anger (according to your words - I have to take that at face value as I don't know you from Adam) that manifests itself and it's you that is letting your individuality be pushed to the back not them. See above. If a person can honestly keep smiling and continue their search after having so many doors slammed in their faces then fair play to them, perhaps their character is stronger than mine, but sometimes the game itself is the problem, not the player. If a man falls when running up a greasy slope, is it his fault for just not trying hard enough? Now clearly you're a big muscular guy, and if anger and frustration (as well as a self-described 'intense personality') is what manifests itself to them then I can only guess that might come across as quite a daunting spectacle. Reminds me of the story of the dragon and the kitten I heard as a kid. Long story short, everyone was scared of the dragon until one day they saw it playing with a kitten - the moral being don't judge anyone without knowing them, and yet single males get judged VERY quickly in this world, and it's typically negative. I'm not so sure a big muscular lady with self-confessed anger issues would be deemed as an attractive 'strong character' to be honest. The Williams sisters are pretty well built and passionately outspoken, and are portrayed as all the better and stronger for it. Now from your forum presence you always come across as a decent thoughtful fellow and I'm quite sure you would be an amazing catch for some lucky person out there. Thankyou...and I won't tell you to fuck off, I'd get a forum ban " a robust counter argument. Which again lays the 'fault' on others without recognising perhaps you need to change slightly too
I wish you all the best my friend. | |||
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"OP. Do you realise that a huge proportion of "single men" on this site are in fact attached?" That doesn't mean we all are. | |||
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"OP. Do you realise that a huge proportion of "single men" on this site are in fact attached? That doesn't mean we all are." No, but to assume it's any representation of how many males are truly single is way off the mark. Also, given that the population of adult females is generally slightly higher than males, logic would suggest there are in fact, more single females. | |||
"Phillip Zimbardo 'The demise of guys' Ted Talk" ill watch this..thanks xx | |||
"OP think yourself lucky if you lived in UAE I inderstand that the ratio of men to women is something like 2.74 rather than the 0.97 in the UK. " I maybe opening the proverbial can of worms here and going completely off topic (sorry OP, I feel for you bud) but hopefully the lower percentage of women currently resident in the UAE is because they've woken up to the fact that they've been cruelly and unfairly subjugated for thousands of years and have left the country and it's surrounding "civilisation" so that they're no longer treated like dogs kept on a short choke chain that get beaten on a regular basis for having a mind and a voice, neither of which are allowed to be freely heard? | |||
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"I don't get the maths SB to be honest (don't worry I'm a bit dim). According to the last census in 2011 there was 27.6m men and 28.5m women in England and Wales. So statistically the women should be fighting over us men? Help a confused brother out a bit here .. "The maths doesnt add up at first glance does it? But once you understand the context it actually makes perfect sense. There is something called the Pareto Principle, or the 80/20 rule. It states that in many cases 80% of the effects come from 20% of the causes. Women's sexual attraction operates on a similar ratio, in the sense that the vast majority of women find approximately 80% of males sexually non-viable. That is to say they are sexually unattractive to the point where they would not engage with them. Now, to use simplified numbers if there are 25m men and 25m women, on balance that should suggest a match for everyone, and in the real numbers hell even a slight surplus of women. But that ignores the realities of sexual attraction. Given that women consider only the top 20% of potential mates viable, what you are actually left with is 25m women for 5m men. If you are in that 5m, great, you will have one hell of a time, if you arent, sorry man, your romantic life will consist primarily of buzzing around uninterested women like a fly round shit and occasionally being thrown a d*unken desperation fuck, or perhaps being milked for your resources in exchange for sex, assuming you have any. If you want to see the numbers take a look at the OKStatistics arm of the OKCupid dating website, their numbers show the effect at source using a variety of data gathering techniques. Its all very fascinating. I could go on of course as to the socio-biological reasons why this is the case, the causes as opposed to the observable effects, but i think this answers OPs question sufficiently. | |||
"I don't get the maths SB to be honest (don't worry I'm a bit dim). According to the last census in 2011 there was 27.6m men and 28.5m women in England and Wales. So statistically the women should be fighting over us men? Help a confused brother out a bit here ..
The maths doesnt add up at first glance does it? But once you understand the context it actually makes perfect sense.
There is something called the Pareto Principle, or the 80/20 rule. It states that in many cases 80% of the effects come from 20% of the causes.
Women's sexual attraction operates on a similar ratio, in the sense that the vast majority of women find approximately 80% of males sexually non-viable. That is to say they are sexually unattractive to the point where they would not engage with them.
Now, to use simplified numbers if there are 25m men and 25m women, on balance that should suggest a match for everyone, and in the real numbers hell even a slight surplus of women. But that ignores the realities of sexual attraction.
Given that women consider only the top 20% of potential mates viable, what you are actually left with is 25m women for 5m men.
If you are in that 5m, great, you will have one hell of a time, if you arent, sorry man, your romantic life will consist primarily of buzzing around uninterested women like a fly round shit and occasionally being thrown a d*unken desperation fuck, or perhaps being milked for your resources in exchange for sex, assuming you have any.
If you want to see the numbers take a look at the OKStatistics arm of the OKCupid dating website, their numbers show the effect at source using a variety of data gathering techniques. Its all very fascinating.
I could go on of course as to the socio-biological reasons why this is the case, the causes as opposed to the observable effects, but i think this answers OPs question sufficiently. "That was fascinating, I enjoy these kind of studies so thankyou. My question is though, if only 20% of males are found fully viable sexually (and I'm assuming that once these guys are snapped up, the women who didn't get them have to 'settle' for less), what's the percentage among women from the male perspective, women who are rated as suitably attractive? | |||
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"I don't get the maths SB to be honest (don't worry I'm a bit dim). According to the last census in 2011 there was 27.6m men and 28.5m women in England and Wales. So statistically the women should be fighting over us men? Help a confused brother out a bit here ..
The maths doesnt add up at first glance does it? But once you understand the context it actually makes perfect sense.
There is something called the Pareto Principle, or the 80/20 rule. It states that in many cases 80% of the effects come from 20% of the causes.
Women's sexual attraction operates on a similar ratio, in the sense that the vast majority of women find approximately 80% of males sexually non-viable. That is to say they are sexually unattractive to the point where they would not engage with them.
Now, to use simplified numbers if there are 25m men and 25m women, on balance that should suggest a match for everyone, and in the real numbers hell even a slight surplus of women. But that ignores the realities of sexual attraction.
Given that women consider only the top 20% of potential mates viable, what you are actually left with is 25m women for 5m men.
If you are in that 5m, great, you will have one hell of a time, if you arent, sorry man, your romantic life will consist primarily of buzzing around uninterested women like a fly round shit and occasionally being thrown a d*unken desperation fuck, or perhaps being milked for your resources in exchange for sex, assuming you have any.
If you want to see the numbers take a look at the OKStatistics arm of the OKCupid dating website, their numbers show the effect at source using a variety of data gathering techniques. Its all very fascinating.
I could go on of course as to the socio-biological reasons why this is the case, the causes as opposed to the observable effects, but i think this answers OPs question sufficiently.
That was fascinating, I enjoy these kind of studies so thankyou. My question is though, if only 20% of males are found fully viable sexually (and I'm assuming that once these guys are snapped up, the women who didn't get them have to 'settle' for less), what's the percentage among women from the male perspective, women who are rated as suitably attractive?"That depends on whether you're talking about women they would fuck or women they would want as partners | |||
" That was fascinating, I enjoy these kind of studies so thankyou. My question is though, if only 20% of males are found fully viable sexually (and I'm assuming that once these guys are snapped up, the women who didn't get them have to 'settle' for less), what's the percentage among women from the male perspective, women who are rated as suitably attractive?" Generally speaking the males rate the females at approximately 50% viable. That is to say that on average a male on their site will find half of the women he is exposed to sexually viable. Which when you combine those two factors it explains a lot about relationships you see out in the world. It explains why primarily unless there is a significant wealth imbalance, where an attractiveness deficit appears in a couple its likely to be the male who is "settling" and the female who is "reaching". It explains why women can have 50 suitors attempting to court them, and complain "Where have all the good men gone" It explains why men are so thirsty, because ultimately they cant even get women on their own level most of the time, let alone punch up. Unless as i say there are significant extraneous factors such as wealth at play. Ultimately as well there is one slight flaw in your interpretation of the data. You assume that those 5m will get "snapped up", ultimately they dont, not in the main. Some will of course, but most will bed hop for a significant portion of their lives until they find one to "Cash in their chips" with. So most women are: A: Perfectly aware that if they just hold out for their "Price" a top 20% guy will come along eventually. Might not stay forever, might not commit but he will he fuck her. B: Perfectly happy to be "One of many" to a guy far enough into that top 20%. So in reality those 5m men are actually monopolising a LOT more than 5m women. Some directly by being involved with more than one woman at a time, others passivey by creating a culture where effectively women can wait it out bemoaning the lack of good men and eventually get one, if only briefly, before settling down in their 30s with a guy who doesnt really fit the top 20, or turn them on, but who is a good father to the top 20% guys kids and generally has his life in order. It is the way of things, effectively a dualistic mating strategy, and its been in play since before we had words, let alone dating sites. | |||
"I'm a single woman who regularly gets told "oh I can't believe you're single", but the reality is that I never ever get chatted up when I'm out! I think the rise of Internet dating has killed the art of d*unken seduction. " Well Peaches you do have a bit of a 'glow' in your pics, I'd probably take a shot at you were you not so far away. " That was fascinating, I enjoy these kind of studies so thankyou. My question is though, if only 20% of males are found fully viable sexually (and I'm assuming that once these guys are snapped up, the women who didn't get them have to 'settle' for less), what's the percentage among women from the male perspective, women who are rated as suitably attractive? Generally speaking the males rate the females at approximately 50% viable. That is to say that on average a male on their site will find half of the women he is exposed to sexually viable. Which when you combine those two factors it explains a lot about relationships you see out in the world. It explains why primarily unless there is a significant wealth imbalance, where an attractiveness deficit appears in a couple its likely to be the male who is "settling" and the female who is "reaching". It explains why women can have 50 suitors attempting to court them, and complain "Where have all the good men gone" It explains why men are so thirsty, because ultimately they cant even get women on their own level most of the time, let alone punch up. Unless as i say there are significant extraneous factors such as wealth at play. Ultimately as well there is one slight flaw in your interpretation of the data. You assume that those 5m will get "snapped up", ultimately they dont, not in the main. Some will of course, but most will bed hop for a significant portion of their lives until they find one to "Cash in their chips" with. So most women are: A: Perfectly aware that if they just hold out for their "Price" a top 20% guy will come along eventually. Might not stay forever, might not commit but he will he fuck her. B: Perfectly happy to be "One of many" to a guy far enough into that top 20%. So in reality those 5m men are actually monopolising a LOT more than 5m women. Some directly by being involved with more than one woman at a time, others passivey by creating a culture where effectively women can wait it out bemoaning the lack of good men and eventually get one, if only briefly, before settling down in their 30s with a guy who doesnt really fit the top 20, or turn them on, but who is a good father to the top 20% guys kids and generally has his life in order. It is the way of things, effectively a dualistic mating strategy, and its been in play since before we had words, let alone dating sites. " Sounds rather brutal, yet it does make a lot of sense. People often forget that despite our (supposedly) civilised society, we're all still animals fighting to survive and thrive in the world, not only for ourselves, but for our bloodlines future too. It sounds cynical talking about how many women can be attracted to a man for his resources (ie money), but the fact that he has resources may suggest that he's determined and intelligent to have acquired them - or he could simply have been lucky enough to have come into money either by birth or inheritance, but either way, he can provide security for his family, which is an understandably attractive quality. | |||
"I'm a single woman who regularly gets told "oh I can't believe you're single", but the reality is that I never ever get chatted up when I'm out!" Well, to state the blindingly obvious, or at least obvious in my humble opinion; you’re a very attractive woman. Perhaps most guys will firmly believe that they haven’t got a snowballs chance in hell of successfully chatting you up or even managing twenty seconds in your presence before you’ve brushed us aside as we believe (rightly or wrongly) that you’ve been inundated with guys trying to chat you up every time you set foot outside the house since you hit puberty and you’ve most likely developed a quick and efficient way to deal with unwanted attention which can be brutal to the male ego? It’s not your fault at all (blame your parents for the impressive heredity genetics ) but for me the fear of rejection is a powerful de-motivator to the point where I personally won’t even make eye contact with women such as yourself, not alone try and talk to you for fear of needing a fire extinguisher close to hand to put the flames out afterwards.
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"I'm a single woman who regularly gets told "oh I can't believe you're single", but the reality is that I never ever get chatted up when I'm out! I think the rise of Internet dating has killed the art of d*unken seduction. " I think it predates the web, many years ago it was the same.. a very attractive woman on her own can to some guys be quite daunting, close friend of mine used to say the same that when some guys did approach her they were more worried about being rejected if they weren't on par looks wise.. some men are basically insecure around beautiful, intelligent, confident women.. | |||
"I'm a single woman who regularly gets told "oh I can't believe you're single", but the reality is that I never ever get chatted up when I'm out! I think the rise of Internet dating has killed the art of d*unken seduction. I think it predates the web, many years ago it was the same.. a very attractive woman on her own can to some guys be quite daunting, close friend of mine used to say the same that when some guys did approach her they were more worried about being rejected if they weren't on par looks wise.. some men are basically insecure around beautiful, intelligent, confident women.. " Nicely put, far more accurate and eloquent than my rambling nonsensical reply. | |||
"I'm a single woman who regularly gets told "oh I can't believe you're single", but the reality is that I never ever get chatted up when I'm out! I think the rise of Internet dating has killed the art of d*unken seduction. I think it predates the web, many years ago it was the same.. a very attractive woman on her own can to some guys be quite daunting, close friend of mine used to say the same that when some guys did approach her they were more worried about being rejected if they weren't on par looks wise.. some men are basically insecure around beautiful, intelligent, confident women.. " Insecurity implies that their beliefs aren't accurate. I'm not "insecure" about my inability to climb Everest. Or breathe methane, or leap tall buildings. They are simply facts. The odds for guys who attempt to be the reacher in dating aren't much better. They aren't insecure so much as they are resigned. | |||
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"It's also interesting how quick we were, myself included, to take notice of Peaches appeal and laud her for it - this really isn't unusual on here, but I don't think I've ever seen a male treated with such immediate respect and praise. " you dont read all comments on all threads then, thats all i can say..i think its selective seeing.. | |||
"I don't get the maths SB to be honest (don't worry I'm a bit dim). According to the last census in 2011 there was 27.6m men and 28.5m women in England and Wales. So statistically the women should be fighting over us men? Help a confused brother out a bit here ..
The maths doesnt add up at first glance does it? But once you understand the context it actually makes perfect sense.
There is something called the Pareto Principle, or the 80/20 rule. It states that in many cases 80% of the effects come from 20% of the causes.
Women's sexual attraction operates on a similar ratio, in the sense that the vast majority of women find approximately 80% of males sexually non-viable. That is to say they are sexually unattractive to the point where they would not engage with them.
Now, to use simplified numbers if there are 25m men and 25m women, on balance that should suggest a match for everyone, and in the real numbers hell even a slight surplus of women. But that ignores the realities of sexual attraction.
Given that women consider only the top 20% of potential mates viable, what you are actually left with is 25m women for 5m men.
If you are in that 5m, great, you will have one hell of a time, if you arent, sorry man, your romantic life will consist primarily of buzzing around uninterested women like a fly round shit and occasionally being thrown a d*unken desperation fuck, or perhaps being milked for your resources in exchange for sex, assuming you have any.
If you want to see the numbers take a look at the OKStatistics arm of the OKCupid dating website, their numbers show the effect at source using a variety of data gathering techniques. Its all very fascinating.
I could go on of course as to the socio-biological reasons why this is the case, the causes as opposed to the observable effects, but i think this answers OPs question sufficiently. "All very interesting and you've obviously studied this far more extensively than me. But let's put it another way. The OP was talking about finding a partner - my assumption is that he was looking for a girlfriend. So assuming people match off and pair up (and they surely do as I see couples everywhere, all of the time) and even if people are off having affairs elsewhere as a sideline that's still one lady for every one man that's 'attached' (for simplicity let's ignore gay relationships). So there's still ultimately a surplus of women over men. Even if they find only 20% of men 'viable' then, using your maths, if that's approx 5m 'viable' men there can only be 5m women that eventually find a relationship with these viable men. So either they move on and downgrade their standards or you end up with 20m unattached 'unviable' men and 21m women who weren't able to partner with the top 5m men?? I think | |||
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"I feel your pain dude. I've struggled with women for years and the older I get the harder it definitely becomes. The last long term relationship I had was with a girl in Canada and that didn't work out. As for the online sites, I have personally found them to be very frustrating, at times depressing and it definitely knocks confidence. In over 4 years of online dating, I've never met anyone. You find yourself putting in more and more effort and the results remain unchanged. It does get to you eventually but never to the point of suicide. Sites have a way of false pretence. They fill you with hope and you end up feeling cap about yourself. When over the years you can say that you have reached out to hundreds of women and not 1 is interested, that's not a good sign. I'd rather be unhappy alone rather than be with someone for the sake of it " That's a shame Mechanic, judging from your pics and profile, I'd think most women would at least give you a second look, you seem rather articulate and have a good physique. | |||
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