FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > So, JFK. Lone gunman or elaborate Black Ops ruse?
So, JFK. Lone gunman or elaborate Black Ops ruse?
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Let's solve this once and for all - and where better than on a casual sex site forum?
So - was JFK murdered by dark Government forces, or simply a lone nutcase? Or something else..
I'm not suitably well informed to form a robust opinion myself but I bet you Fabbers are - let's get some closure on this then, what do we all think? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The most recent documentary I saw provided compelling evidence that the fatal shot was an accidental discharge by one of his close protection team, it showed video of him jumping I to the back of jfk's car and stumbling as he did and his gun going off, it was quite convincing to be honest. |
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By *arksMan
over a year ago
in the centre |
"Let's solve this once and for all - and where better than on a casual sex site forum?
So - was JFK murdered by dark Government forces, or simply a lone nutcase? Or something else..
I'm not suitably well informed to form a robust opinion myself but I bet you Fabbers are - let's get some closure on this then, what do we all think? "
it was Magneto , although he was trying to save the president as he was a mutant also , surely everyoone knows that by now  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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There was more than one shooter of that I am certain. Bullets do not turn corners.
Jack Ruby shot oswald to shut him up as he knew Oswald was a weak character and didn't want the mafia link caught up in it.
In short. Mafia hit.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"The most recent documentary I saw provided compelling evidence that the fatal shot was an accidental discharge by one of his close protection team, it showed video of him jumping I to the back of jfk's car and stumbling as he did and his gun going off, it was quite convincing to be honest. "
 ah that's a new theory for me - I'll have to go hunt that out! Thanks |
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I thought JFK was assassinated by a cabal consisting of the FIB, CIA, LBJ, the Mafia, Teamsters and jealous husbands. Oh, and Castro.
Shot 314 times from 94 different angles if you looked closely... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"There was more than one shooter of that I am certain. Bullets do not turn corners.
Jack Ruby shot oswald to shut him up as he knew Oswald was a weak character and didn't want the mafia link caught up in it.
In short. Mafia hit.
"
According to the documentary I saw the second shot came from the gun of one of his own close protection team, looked like a freak accident, worth a watch if it interests you  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The last official government report stated it was more that probable that a conspiracy between 2 or more people was to blame!.
Who they are is open to debate |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"There was more than one shooter of that I am certain. Bullets do not turn corners.
Jack Ruby shot oswald to shut him up as he knew Oswald was a weak character and didn't want the mafia link caught up in it.
In short. Mafia hit.
"
I saw one documentary a while ago now that tried to explain the 'magic bullet' - if I recall there was a unique set of circumstances in which the physics and geometry did all work. But it was ages ago and I can't recall too much about it to be honest |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I'm convinced it was the same person who shot JR, failing that I think it was the OP!!!! Lol xx"
Sue Ellen's sister!?  Mind you, same city - you could be on to something there! |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I thought JFK was assassinated by a cabal consisting of the FIB, CIA, LBJ, the Mafia, Teamsters and jealous husbands. Oh, and Castro.
Shot 314 times from 94 different angles if you looked closely..."
ah solved! Thanks DJ |
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"I thought JFK was assassinated by a cabal consisting of the FIB, CIA, LBJ, the Mafia, Teamsters and jealous husbands. Oh, and Castro.
Shot 314 times from 94 different angles if you looked closely...
ah solved! Thanks DJ "
Glad to be of service.
*doffs bowler* |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"There was more than one shooter of that I am certain. Bullets do not turn corners.
Jack Ruby shot oswald to shut him up as he knew Oswald was a weak character and didn't want the mafia link caught up in it.
In short. Mafia hit.
According to the documentary I saw the second shot came from the gun of one of his own close protection team, looked like a freak accident, worth a watch if it interests you "
Yeah I saw that but have discounted it as it would have been picked up. What the police have always discounted was the officers report of gun fire from behind him on the grassy knoll. Now that is the angle the head shot most likely came from.
I've spent years researching all this since I was a small boy at school. I also own a gun so have a fair idea of trajectories etc |
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I've seen the magic bullet de-bunked - the presidential limousine was wider at the back and the rear seats were higher. If you factor that in, then the bullet that passed through JFK's neck and then through the guy in front's wrist and thigh - it all works.
I saw the one about the accidental discharge too - have to say it was pretty compelling.
They say that 6 shots or whatever could not have been fired in the time by Oswald's gun - but I've seen an 80 year old cock and fire the same gun in the same time.
They say Oswald was only an average shot - his military record shows he was trained as a sniper and was very accurate.
Most people watching the Zeebruger  film see JFK's head snap back and assume the head shot must have come from the front. This is entirely wrong as anyone who has any knowledge of gunshots knows. The exit wound is much greater than the entrance wound, and the front of JFK's head exploding and his head snapping back, is entirely consistent with a shot from the rear.
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About 25 years ago, I watched a re-enactment of the Warren commission report, with actors, working from transcripts - it was condensed into around 20 hours and aired over the 2 days of a weekend.
I got very interested in the whole thing and watched/read anything I could get my hands on.
Most of the supposed anomalies have rational explanations.
It's been a while and I can't remember all the detail now, but my general impression now is that Oswald was the only shooter, but that the fatal shot was an accidental discharge from one of the close security guards. |
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"I thought JFK was assassinated by a cabal consisting of the FIB, CIA, LBJ, the Mafia, Teamsters and jealous husbands. Oh, and Castro.
Shot 314 times from 94 different angles if you looked closely..."
If it was 94 times from 314 different angles I'd be more inclined to believe it. |
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"
They say Oswald was only an average shot - his military record shows he was trained as a sniper and was very accurate.
Most people watching the Zeebruger film see JFK's head snap back and assume the head shot must have come from the front. This is entirely wrong as anyone who has any knowledge of gunshots knows. The exit wound is much greater than the entrance wound, and the front of JFK's head exploding and his head snapping back, is entirely consistent with a shot from the rear.
"
So Oswald was a sniper was he???? Utter bollocks. He never trained as one or was ever classed as one.
If you look at the few autopsy pictures of JFK you can clearly see it's the side and REAR of his head that is missing. Factor in the video footage where his wife is climbing over the back of the car chasing part of his head that was blown off, yeah, he must have been shot from behind.
Please return when YOU have some knowledge about how gunshot wounds work. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
They say Oswald was only an average shot - his military record shows he was trained as a sniper and was very accurate.
Most people watching the Zeebruger film see JFK's head snap back and assume the head shot must have come from the front. This is entirely wrong as anyone who has any knowledge of gunshots knows. The exit wound is much greater than the entrance wound, and the front of JFK's head exploding and his head snapping back, is entirely consistent with a shot from the rear.
So Oswald was a sniper was he???? Utter bollocks. He never trained as one or was ever classed as one.
If you look at the few autopsy pictures of JFK you can clearly see it's the side and REAR of his head that is missing. Factor in the video footage where his wife is climbing over the back of the car chasing part of his head that was blown off, yeah, he must have been shot from behind.
Please return when YOU have some knowledge about how gunshot wounds work. "
Instead of looking at autopsy pictures etc wouldnt it hust be easier to ask where did the bullet end up?
Infront of him or behind?
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By *ost SockMan
over a year ago
West Wales and Cardiff |
I've been a JFK assassination geek since I bought a book saying the mafia did it in around 1988.
I've believed loads of of theories in that time.
I'm now very much of the opinion (and it is just my opinion) that LHO acted alone. I feel kinda sad about that in a way - conspiracy theories are much more fun.
There are still some things which are weird, like "umbrella man" granted, but that's just how I feel.
I seriously don't recommend posting on JFK assassination forum if you're lone gunman believer though .
Oh - if you want a a great theory (much better than the secret service guy in the car shooting him one, stick "JFK and the driver" into YouTube.
I was gobsmacked when I first saw it. It's b******s, but very good b******s |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
They say Oswald was only an average shot - his military record shows he was trained as a sniper and was very accurate.
Most people watching the Zeebruger film see JFK's head snap back and assume the head shot must have come from the front. This is entirely wrong as anyone who has any knowledge of gunshots knows. The exit wound is much greater than the entrance wound, and the front of JFK's head exploding and his head snapping back, is entirely consistent with a shot from the rear.
So Oswald was a sniper was he???? Utter bollocks. He never trained as one or was ever classed as one.
If you look at the few autopsy pictures of JFK you can clearly see it's the side and REAR of his head that is missing. Factor in the video footage where his wife is climbing over the back of the car chasing part of his head that was blown off, yeah, he must have been shot from behind.
Please return when YOU have some knowledge about how gunshot wounds work.
Instead of looking at autopsy pictures etc wouldnt it hust be easier to ask where did the bullet end up?
Infront of him or behind?
"
Not necessarily. Entry and exit wounds often don't match. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
They say Oswald was only an average shot - his military record shows he was trained as a sniper and was very accurate.
Most people watching the Zeebruger film see JFK's head snap back and assume the head shot must have come from the front. This is entirely wrong as anyone who has any knowledge of gunshots knows. The exit wound is much greater than the entrance wound, and the front of JFK's head exploding and his head snapping back, is entirely consistent with a shot from the rear.
So Oswald was a sniper was he???? Utter bollocks. He never trained as one or was ever classed as one.
If you look at the few autopsy pictures of JFK you can clearly see it's the side and REAR of his head that is missing. Factor in the video footage where his wife is climbing over the back of the car chasing part of his head that was blown off, yeah, he must have been shot from behind.
Please return when YOU have some knowledge about how gunshot wounds work.
Instead of looking at autopsy pictures etc wouldnt it hust be easier to ask where did the bullet end up?
Infront of him or behind?
Not necessarily. Entry and exit wounds often don't match."
I know they dont.
Im saying where did the bullet end up.
Its a ridle round it aint staying in his head did it end up infront of him or veing him.
Would give you a much easier way of seeing there the bullet came from |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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It was one lone nutter who was trained at the government's expense in the USA Army. and a whole lot of embarrassed security staff and police who really don't want to admit they couldn't protect the president, so encourage conspiracy theories of forces to big to stop. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Laws of probability!.
So we've got two choices
1 a lone gun man, who was a pretty shit rifleman in training, managed to avoid all FBI, CIA and ss precautions, find an open window with good vantage point and nobody around in the building to set up and wait for a presidential motocade to pass then fire off three shots from about 90 yards on a ww2 bolt action rifle in 7ish seconds all with devastating results, who then gets shot by another lone gun man before he can says yay or nay!.... And he planned this to perfection with no help whatever , the route, timing, weapon, escape and did all this for no motive at all? Most people with a high motive to assassinate can't wait to tell you why!.
2 JFK extremely unpopular with his cheifs of staff and other high level civil servants but extremely popular with the public was conspired against from inside, they helped or plotted for others to assassinate him so he could be replaced by his vice president so they could change crucial policy in their favour!.... In this case we know at least Lyndon Johnson would have to have prior knowledge(no point replacing one uncooperative president for another).
Now is it with in probability that the highest level of US government could conceal this coup d'etat????
.
.
Which one is more likely?
I favour 2 mainly from a historical balance from past experience!.... governments conspire, that's just factual |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Shot by mistake by inexperienced secret service agent in the car behind him who was given the riffle because all the others were hungover.
True story."
Apparently |
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By *elnkazCouple
over a year ago
cheshire |
I have always believed that the one person who did not kill JFK was Lee Harvey Oswald. He was a loner used by a cartel involving Mafia and CIA and others and then killed by Jack Ruby to silence him.
Del |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Laws of probability!.
So we've got two choices
1 a lone gun man, who was a pretty shit rifleman in training, managed to avoid all FBI, CIA and ss precautions, find an open window with good vantage point and nobody around in the building to set up and wait for a presidential motocade to pass then fire off three shots from about 90 yards on a ww2 bolt action rifle in 7ish seconds all with devastating results, who then gets shot by another lone gun man before he can says yay or nay!.... And he planned this to perfection with no help whatever , the route, timing, weapon, escape and did all this for no motive at all? Most people with a high motive to assassinate can't wait to tell you why!.
2 JFK extremely unpopular with his cheifs of staff and other high level civil servants but extremely popular with the public was conspired against from inside, they helped or plotted for others to assassinate him so he could be replaced by his vice president so they could change crucial policy in their favour!.... In this case we know at least Lyndon Johnson would have to have prior knowledge(no point replacing one uncooperative president for another).
Now is it with in probability that the highest level of US government could conceal this coup d'etat????
.
.
Which one is more likely?
I favour 2 mainly from a historical balance from past experience!.... governments conspire, that's just factual"
1; the Winchester Model 70 is, even today a very accurate sniper rifle and hits an excellent grouping from 500 yards never mind 90 yards.
A 90 yard shot would be a walk in the park for such a rifle and 3 shots in 7 seconds is not an issue.
Now bearing in mind that they say the rifle used was a Carcano Model 91/38 firing a 6.5x52mm round, this is still an easy shot at less than 90 yards.
a 160 grain bullet would have no problem doing this task.
. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The most recent documentary I saw provided compelling evidence that the fatal shot was an accidental discharge by one of his close protection team, it showed video of him jumping I to the back of jfk's car and stumbling as he did and his gun going off, it was quite convincing to be honest. "
Yes I agree and they couldn't wait to get out of Dallas to cover their tracks, this is the one I'd go with |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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If you read or watched a theory ask yourself is it possible to have an unbiased report.with a case this big I suggest not and all reports have other motives for there findings |
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By *hangovCouple
over a year ago
sheffield |
"Laws of probability!.
So we've got two choices
1 a lone gun man, who was a pretty shit rifleman in training, managed to avoid all FBI, CIA and ss precautions, find an open window with good vantage point and nobody around in the building to set up and wait for a presidential motocade to pass then fire off three shots from about 90 yards on a ww2 bolt action rifle in 7ish seconds all with devastating results, who then gets shot by another lone gun man before he can says yay or nay!.... And he planned this to perfection with no help whatever , the route, timing, weapon, escape and did all this for no motive at all? Most people with a high motive to assassinate can't wait to tell you why!.
2 JFK extremely unpopular with his cheifs of staff and other high level civil servants but extremely popular with the public was conspired against from inside, they helped or plotted for others to assassinate him so he could be replaced by his vice president so they could change crucial policy in their favour!.... In this case we know at least Lyndon Johnson would have to have prior knowledge(no point replacing one uncooperative president for another).
Now is it with in probability that the highest level of US government could conceal this coup d'etat????
.
.
Which one is more likely?
I favour 2 mainly from a historical balance from past experience!.... governments conspire, that's just factual
1; the Winchester Model 70 is, even today a very accurate sniper rifle and hits an excellent grouping from 500 yards never mind 90 yards.
A 90 yard shot would be a walk in the park for such a rifle and 3 shots in 7 seconds is not an issue.
Now bearing in mind that they say the rifle used was a Carcano Model 91/38 firing a 6.5x52mm round, this is still an easy shot at less than 90 yards.
a 160 grain bullet would have no problem doing this task.
Not arguing here as I don't have a gun or know much about them but why did you mention the Winchester model 70?
As you say they say the rifle used was a Carcano Model 91/38, not a Winchester?
."
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I've seen the magic bullet de-bunked - the presidential limousine was wider at the back and the rear seats were higher. If you factor that in, then the bullet that passed through JFK's neck and then through the guy in front's wrist and thigh - it all works.
I saw the one about the accidental discharge too - have to say it was pretty compelling.
They say that 6 shots or whatever could not have been fired in the time by Oswald's gun - but I've seen an 80 year old cock and fire the same gun in the same time.
They say Oswald was only an average shot - his military record shows he was trained as a sniper and was very accurate.
Most people watching the Zeebruger film see JFK's head snap back and assume the head shot must have come from the front. This is entirely wrong as anyone who has any knowledge of gunshots knows. The exit wound is much greater than the entrance wound, and the front of JFK's head exploding and his head snapping back, is entirely consistent with a shot from the rear.
"
I saw the documentary about the accidental discharge of an AR15 too. They said they were loaded with frangible ammunition. That debunked that theory for me.
I'm still convinced it was Oswald acting alone. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Laws of probability!.
So we've got two choices
1 a lone gun man, who was a pretty shit rifleman in training, managed to avoid all FBI, CIA and ss precautions, find an open window with good vantage point and nobody around in the building to set up and wait for a presidential motocade to pass then fire off three shots from about 90 yards on a ww2 bolt action rifle in 7ish seconds all with devastating results, who then gets shot by another lone gun man before he can says yay or nay!.... And he planned this to perfection with no help whatever , the route, timing, weapon, escape and did all this for no motive at all? Most people with a high motive to assassinate can't wait to tell you why!.
2 JFK extremely unpopular with his cheifs of staff and other high level civil servants but extremely popular with the public was conspired against from inside, they helped or plotted for others to assassinate him so he could be replaced by his vice president so they could change crucial policy in their favour!.... In this case we know at least Lyndon Johnson would have to have prior knowledge(no point replacing one uncooperative president for another).
Now is it with in probability that the highest level of US government could conceal this coup d'etat????
.
.
Which one is more likely?
I favour 2 mainly from a historical balance from past experience!.... governments conspire, that's just factual
1; the Winchester Model 70 is, even today a very accurate sniper rifle and hits an excellent grouping from 500 yards never mind 90 yards.
A 90 yard shot would be a walk in the park for such a rifle and 3 shots in 7 seconds is not an issue.
Now bearing in mind that they say the rifle used was a Carcano Model 91/38 firing a 6.5x52mm round, this is still an easy shot at less than 90 yards.
a 160 grain bullet would have no problem doing this task.
."
.
You know somebody actually recreated the exact scenario 10 expert marksman only 2 managed to hit the target, 4 didn't get the shots of in the time and none of them actually managed a head shot.... What they all actually said is that they wouldn't have taken the shot there but when the car was coming towards them before it made the turn?.
I don't know much about shooting rifles, what I do know is that being as nervous as fuck and holding a rifle free hand as they say Oswald did, I doubt you'd get the same groupings |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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an expert would have only fired one shot, also with large calliber high velocity gun any hit is likely fatal, so target of choice would be the torso. the fact that one was a head shot is beside the point.
one shot means a very good chance of escape, 3 means you are caught. We will never know if it was a suicide mission or just plain nerves that caused him to fire three shots, but we do know it was unprofessional, so probably not a consiricy. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Laws of probability!.
So we've got two choices
1 a lone gun man, who was a pretty shit rifleman in training, managed to avoid all FBI, CIA and ss precautions, find an open window with good vantage point and nobody around in the building to set up and wait for a presidential motocade to pass then fire off three shots from about 90 yards on a ww2 bolt action rifle in 7ish seconds all with devastating results, who then gets shot by another lone gun man before he can says yay or nay!.... And he planned this to perfection with no help whatever , the route, timing, weapon, escape and did all this for no motive at all? Most people with a high motive to assassinate can't wait to tell you why!.
2 JFK extremely unpopular with his cheifs of staff and other high level civil servants but extremely popular with the public was conspired against from inside, they helped or plotted for others to assassinate him so he could be replaced by his vice president so they could change crucial policy in their favour!.... In this case we know at least Lyndon Johnson would have to have prior knowledge(no point replacing one uncooperative president for another).
Now is it with in probability that the highest level of US government could conceal this coup d'etat????
.
.
Which one is more likely?
I favour 2 mainly from a historical balance from past experience!.... governments conspire, that's just factual
1; the Winchester Model 70 is, even today a very accurate sniper rifle and hits an excellent grouping from 500 yards never mind 90 yards.
A 90 yard shot would be a walk in the park for such a rifle and 3 shots in 7 seconds is not an issue.
Now bearing in mind that they say the rifle used was a Carcano Model 91/38 firing a 6.5x52mm round, this is still an easy shot at less than 90 yards.
a 160 grain bullet would have no problem doing this task.
..
You know somebody actually recreated the exact scenario 10 expert marksman only 2 managed to hit the target, 4 didn't get the shots of in the time and none of them actually managed a head shot.... What they all actually said is that they wouldn't have taken the shot there but when the car was coming towards them before it made the turn?.
I don't know much about shooting rifles, what I do know is that being as nervous as fuck and holding a rifle free hand as they say Oswald did, I doubt you'd get the same groupings "
seems today its not JFK that is the target, its the white Police |
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By *ost SockMan
over a year ago
West Wales and Cardiff |
There's endless debate over how good a shot Oswald was and how achievable what he is purported to have done was. He was rated at sharpshooter level in the Marines at certain points, I think.
No doubt, there's lots of people who don't think he could.
What is undeniable that the first shots did come from behind. If you trace the line of those bullets back, they lead to the 6th floor window. A building in which he worked.
If it wasn't Oswald then, someone else must have been there.
What about the murder of JD Tippitt an hour or so later though? Why would Oswald do that if he wasn't fleeing because of his earlier shooting of JFK? Maybe the witnesses who saw him and told the police were wrong.
So, the police go to a movie theatre and wrongly arrest a guy for the Tippett murder, who just happened to work in the very building where the bullets came from that killed JFK? Mmmm.
I definitely believe Oswald was involved. The only question then is whether he acted alone. I believed Oliver Stone "back and to the right" mantra about Kennedy's head for years. But the wounds were at the wrong angle/place on his head if he was shot from the Gnoll.
Also, look at frame 313 of the Zapruder
film. Warning - it's gruesome. The brain matter is shooting out at a upwards angle of 45 degrees or more from the front of his head. His head dips forward for a split second before recoiling backwards too. There's absolutely no firm evidence he was shot from the grassy knoll after 50+ years of people pouring over this.
Are there question marks over the "offficial" story - of course there are and some bother me. However, people then jump on the conspiracy theories, which have even more holes in them.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"seems today its not JFK that is the target, its the white Police"
Correction, it's just Police, one of the 3 recently shot was a black police officer. I think the colour predudice is blue.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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There's nothing like a good topical thread. And this is nothing like a good topical thread.
Next week- were the Princes' in the Tower murdered or was it a conspiracy?  |
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"There's nothing like a good topical thread. And this is nothing like a good topical thread.
Next week- were the Princes' in the Tower murdered or was it a conspiracy? "
And why did they bury Rich III under a car park? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"There's nothing like a good topical thread. And this is nothing like a good topical thread.
Next week- were the Princes' in the Tower murdered or was it a conspiracy? "
It was never meant to be topical.
Anyway, kiss, fuck, avoid?  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"There's endless debate over how good a shot Oswald was and how achievable what he is purported to have done was. He was rated at sharpshooter level in the Marines at certain points, I think.
No doubt, there's lots of people who don't think he could.
What is undeniable that the first shots did come from behind. If you trace the line of those bullets back, they lead to the 6th floor window. A building in which he worked.
If it wasn't Oswald then, someone else must have been there.
What about the murder of JD Tippitt an hour or so later though? Why would Oswald do that if he wasn't fleeing because of his earlier shooting of JFK? Maybe the witnesses who saw him and told the police were wrong.
So, the police go to a movie theatre and wrongly arrest a guy for the Tippett murder, who just happened to work in the very building where the bullets came from that killed JFK? Mmmm.
I definitely believe Oswald was involved. The only question then is whether he acted alone. I believed Oliver Stone "back and to the right" mantra about Kennedy's head for years. But the wounds were at the wrong angle/place on his head if he was shot from the Gnoll.
Also, look at frame 313 of the Zapruder
film. Warning - it's gruesome. The brain matter is shooting out at a upwards angle of 45 degrees or more from the front of his head. His head dips forward for a split second before recoiling backwards too. There's absolutely no firm evidence he was shot from the grassy knoll after 50+ years of people pouring over this.
Are there question marks over the "offficial" story - of course there are and some bother me. However, people then jump on the conspiracy theories, which have even more holes in them.
"
The simple answer to how his head behaved after the head shot is wound cavitations. Bullets don't make nice neat holes, they chew their way through the body and also impart massive kinetic energy. This creates a pressure wave that expands the water rich stuff the body is made from. Head shots are even more spectacular (for want of a better phrase) because the pressure is trapped by the skull and what seem like explosions are the result. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"There's nothing like a good topical thread. And this is nothing like a good topical thread.
Next week- were the Princes' in the Tower murdered or was it a conspiracy?
And why did they bury Rich III under a car park?"
A traffic warden issued him with a penalty notice for failing to pay and display. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"There's endless debate over how good a shot Oswald was and how achievable what he is purported to have done was. He was rated at sharpshooter level in the Marines at certain points, I think.
"
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To clarify that because it does sound quite good!.
There's three rankings in the marines top -expert, middle-sharpshooter, bottom- marksmen.
The two times in the marines that Oswald was tested he just scrapped the score needed for marksmen and then just scrapped the score for sharpshooter!.
These tests are conducted after months of training and practise!.
He signed up for the marines at 17 and defected to Russia three years later(fluent in Russian, it remains a bit of a mystery where or when he learnt it) where he stayed for 3 years before returning with his Russian wife, he campaigned both for and against Castro over a period of a few years despite being a self proclaimed Marxist!.
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"There's endless debate over how good a shot Oswald was and how achievable what he is purported to have done was. He was rated at sharpshooter level in the Marines at certain points, I think.
.
To clarify that because it does sound quite good!.
There's three rankings in the marines top -expert, middle-sharpshooter, bottom- marksmen.
The two times in the marines that Oswald was tested he just scrapped the score needed for marksmen and then just scrapped the score for sharpshooter!.
These tests are conducted after months of training and practise!.
He signed up for the marines at 17 and defected to Russia three years later(fluent in Russian, it remains a bit of a mystery where or when he learnt it) where he stayed for 3 years before returning with his Russian wife, he campaigned both for and against Castro over a period of a few years despite being a self proclaimed Marxist!.
"
According to the Warren Commission report, he achieved Sharpshooter level after 3 weeks training in 1956.
That's less than a month.
It's true, in 1959 - 3 years later, his score was only just above Marksman - so how did he get so much worse with 3 years further training? (not all on the range of course). This would have been shortly before his defection, so maybe he couldn't be arsed.
I wonder what 3 years of training in Russia would have done for his skills?
Be that as it may, all the credible evidence points to the neck shot at least coming from the window he was alleged to have shot from (working out the reverse angle of trajectory).
The head shot could not have come from the grassy knoll, as there was no damage to the front left of JFK's head, where the exit wound would have been. Also, a shot from the knoll, if using a full metal jacket, would have hit Jackie too after passing through JFK's skull. If using a hollow point, JFK's head would have exploded completely.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"an expert would have only fired one shot, also with large calliber high velocity gun any hit is likely fatal, so target of choice would be the torso. the fact that one was a head shot is beside the point.
one shot means a very good chance of escape, 3 means you are caught. We will never know if it was a suicide mission or just plain nerves that caused him to fire three shots, but we do know it was unprofessional, so probably not a consiricy."
If hes an average marks man (although he did score 2 points above the minimum for sharpshooter in one test) aiming for the torso could be he "missed"and hit the head by mistake.
Head shot doesn't mean he was aiming for the head |
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"
You know somebody actually recreated the exact scenario 10 expert marksman only 2 managed to hit the target, 4 didn't get the shots of in the time and none of them actually managed a head shot.... What they all actually said is that they wouldn't have taken the shot there but when the car was coming towards them before it made the turn?.
I don't know much about shooting rifles, what I do know is that being as nervous as fuck and holding a rifle free hand as they say Oswald did, I doubt you'd get the same groupings "
There's a youtube of a test coimmissioned by CNN using the same rifle with 11 shooters, a mixture of state troopers and weapons technicians. They all got the shots off in less than 6 seconds, one managing it in 4. Most of them got at least one hit. One guy got 3 hits. Give it a watch. |
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"The most recent documentary I saw provided compelling evidence that the fatal shot was an accidental discharge by one of his close protection team, it showed video of him jumping I to the back of jfk's car and stumbling as he did and his gun going off, it was quite convincing to be honest. "
I saw this too. It was a good programme. |
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"I thought JFK was assassinated by a cabal consisting of the FIB, CIA, LBJ, the Mafia, Teamsters and jealous husbands. Oh, and Castro.
Shot 314 times from 94 different angles if you looked closely..."
And one from his wife for cheating on her. |
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"if using a full metal jacket, would have hit Jackie too after passing through JFK's skull. If using a hollow point, JFK's head would have exploded completely.
"
And yet more proof that you know absolutely Jack all about bullets or terminal ballistics. Keep commenting though. I enjoy the laugh when I read them. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
You know somebody actually recreated the exact scenario 10 expert marksman only 2 managed to hit the target, 4 didn't get the shots of in the time and none of them actually managed a head shot.... What they all actually said is that they wouldn't have taken the shot there but when the car was coming towards them before it made the turn?.
I don't know much about shooting rifles, what I do know is that being as nervous as fuck and holding a rifle free hand as they say Oswald did, I doubt you'd get the same groupings
There's a youtube of a test coimmissioned by CNN using the same rifle with 11 shooters, a mixture of state troopers and weapons technicians. They all got the shots off in less than 6 seconds, one managing it in 4. Most of them got at least one hit. One guy got 3 hits. Give it a watch."
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I've seen it I think, didn't one have total jam and two had partial jams and neither they nor the army reconstructed it on a moving target, especially one moving away from you which is the hardest shot to take.... From what I've read? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I'm still not convinced why somebody would do all that preparation and pain staking research and then pull it off and not want to tell us why?.
The one thing about the vast majority of killers is they want to be caught because they want to tell us why?.
Harold Shipman was the oddball, quite happily bumping off old folks for no rhyme or reason, just doing it for the sake of it....I can't see Oswald fitting into that category, he was a convictionist and they love to tell you why, like the two guys that bumped off Lee rigby, they hang around waiting to be caught because they want the stage to say I did it and I did it because.....xyz |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The most recent documentary I saw provided compelling evidence that the fatal shot was an accidental discharge by one of his close protection team, it showed video of him jumping I to the back of jfk's car and stumbling as he did and his gun going off, it was quite convincing to be honest. "
I am close protection, I have worked with Royal an Presidential officers an all weapons are holstered, chambered but not cocked an on safety. No truth in accidental discharge, I have also read reports from JFKs team. High velocity rounds came from one side only, but SOP would be two shooters. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I would go with two shooters, standard operating procedure is to have two, working individually without knowledge of each other. Or only one would know of the first/ patsy to take the blame. Bump him an bumper off. Perfect. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Shot by mistake by inexperienced secret service agent in the car behind him who was given the riffle because all the others were hungover.
True story."
Nope. No chance. |
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"
There's a youtube of a test coimmissioned by CNN using the same rifle with 11 shooters, a mixture of state troopers and weapons technicians. They all got the shots off in less than 6 seconds, one managing it in 4. Most of them got at least one hit. One guy got 3 hits. Give it a watch..
I've seen it I think, didn't one have total jam and two had partial jams and neither they nor the army reconstructed it on a moving target, especially one moving away from you which is the hardest shot to take.... From what I've read?"
Nope, that's not the same test.
The target was moving away, all the angles and heights were the same.
None had a jam. Same weapon.
It was carried out in 1967, 4 years after the Warren Commission report. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
There's a youtube of a test coimmissioned by CNN using the same rifle with 11 shooters, a mixture of state troopers and weapons technicians. They all got the shots off in less than 6 seconds, one managing it in 4. Most of them got at least one hit. One guy got 3 hits. Give it a watch..
I've seen it I think, didn't one have total jam and two had partial jams and neither they nor the army reconstructed it on a moving target, especially one moving away from you which is the hardest shot to take.... From what I've read?
Nope, that's not the same test.
The target was moving away, all the angles and heights were the same.
None had a jam. Same weapon.
It was carried out in 1967, 4 years after the Warren Commission report."
.
Oh yeah I found it on YouTube...
17 out of 37 shots where not recorded for time due to trouble with the rifle..... from what I've read about that weapon I'd expect that, it seems it's problematic at best |
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So when forensics came along (were) the bullet shells recovered that killed jfk two bullets in all or did they disappear if not why were they not identified from the gun or guns that discharged them two bullets one or two guns. |
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Trouble is, there's so much conflicting or missing evidence.
This thread has made me re-visit it after 25 years, and obviously with the interweb, more stuff is available more easily, but lots of it is clearly crap and speculation presented as fact.
What does seem clear though, is that all the shots were from the rear - so the grassy knoll is out.
The single/magic bullet is entirely possible if you consider the seating arrangement of the presidential limo (rear bench, higher and wider than the seats in front).
Whilst the weapon was not the highest quality, and unlikely to be the choice of a "professional" hit man/sniper, all 3 shots are possible in the timeframe.
The impact characteristics of the 3rd shot are different from the other 2. Fragments were recovered from the first two shots, which confirmed they were FMJs. The 3rd round shattered into over 40 fragments according to Xrays presented - but for some reason, JFK's brain went missing, so no analysis could be carried out on the fragments. It does seem like the 3rd round was of a different type - maybe soft/hollow nose, but again, it's not conclusive. The trajectory of the 3rd shot is difficult to extrapolate. There are conflicting reports as to the precise location of the entrance wound and the exit wound is so large as to offer little precision, and anyway, the round would have rotated, yawed and developed lift as it travelled through the brain, as it fragmented, causing a large exit crater.
I guess we'll never know for sure.
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"Trouble is, there's so much conflicting or missing evidence.
This thread has made me re-visit it after 25 years, and obviously with the interweb, more stuff is available more easily, but lots of it is clearly crap and speculation presented as fact.
What does seem clear though, is that all the shots were from the rear - so the grassy knoll is out.
The single/magic bullet is entirely possible if you consider the seating arrangement of the presidential limo (rear bench, higher and wider than the seats in front).
Whilst the weapon was not the highest quality, and unlikely to be the choice of a "professional" hit man/sniper, all 3 shots are possible in the timeframe.
The impact characteristics of the 3rd shot are different from the other 2. Fragments were recovered from the first two shots, which confirmed they were FMJs. The 3rd round shattered into over 40 fragments according to Xrays presented - but for some reason, JFK's brain went missing, so no analysis could be carried out on the fragments. It does seem like the 3rd round was of a different type - maybe soft/hollow nose, but again, it's not conclusive. The trajectory of the 3rd shot is difficult to extrapolate. There are conflicting reports as to the precise location of the entrance wound and the exit wound is so large as to offer little precision, and anyway, the round would have rotated, yawed and developed lift as it travelled through the brain, as it fragmented, causing a large exit crater.
I guess we'll never know for sure.
"
I know oswald could have made up how many rounds he discharged from that ruger rifle but did he ? truthfully or not at all before jack ruby came along. |
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"I thought JFK was assassinated by a cabal consisting of the FIB, CIA, LBJ, the Mafia, Teamsters and jealous husbands. Oh, and Castro.
Shot 314 times from 94 different angles if you looked closely...
And one from his wife for cheating on her."
Meeeooow  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So when forensics came along (were) the bullet shells recovered that killed jfk two bullets in all or did they disappear if not why were they not identified from the gun or guns that discharged them two bullets one or two guns."
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Trouble is, there's so much conflicting or missing evidence.
This thread has made me re-visit it after 25 years, and obviously with the interweb, more stuff is available more easily, but lots of it is clearly crap and speculation presented as fact.
What does seem clear though, is that all the shots were from the rear - so the grassy knoll is out.
The single/magic bullet is entirely possible if you consider the seating arrangement of the presidential limo (rear bench, higher and wider than the seats in front).
Whilst the weapon was not the highest quality, and unlikely to be the choice of a "professional" hit man/sniper, all 3 shots are possible in the timeframe.
The impact characteristics of the 3rd shot are different from the other 2. Fragments were recovered from the first two shots, which confirmed they were FMJs. The 3rd round shattered into over 40 fragments according to Xrays presented - but for some reason, JFK's brain went missing, so no analysis could be carried out on the fragments. It does seem like the 3rd round was of a different type - maybe soft/hollow nose, but again, it's not conclusive. The trajectory of the 3rd shot is difficult to extrapolate. There are conflicting reports as to the precise location of the entrance wound and the exit wound is so large as to offer little precision, and anyway, the round would have rotated, yawed and developed lift as it travelled through the brain, as it fragmented, causing a large exit crater.
I guess we'll never know for sure.
"
The brain missing and some other irregularities make a compelling case for a second shooter. Insurance. |
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