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Remain or leave the EU. (How are you voting)
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"350 million its costs us a week if we stay. The NHS could use that money so much better " Remain As it doesn't cost anywhere near that amount its . to be less than half that amount ..out of a total government spend of 720 billion .. | |||
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"350 million its costs us a week if we stay. The NHS could use that money so much better Remain As it doesn't cost anywhere near that amount its . to be less than half that amount ..out of a total government spend of 720 billion .." yes it does | |||
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"350 million its costs us a week if we stay. The NHS could use that money so much better " Christ. This Greek figure was totally holed under the waterline weeks ago. The net is about £110 million/week. Or £8.5 billion a year. A lot. But so is the higher rate of public borrowing envisaged by the treasury by the end of 2017/20(25 to 39 billion), or the £20-40 billion greater deficit by the end of the decade as mentioned by the Insitute of Fiscal Studies if we choose to leave. Figures coming out of everyone's arses. You've just got to decide whose figures you believe more. | |||
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"I'm voting "Not sure" so that's half a point to both isn't it ." I realise you're joking but people do put stuff like that on ballot papers and they just get counted as spoiled. A waste of a vote sadly. | |||
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"I'm voting "Not sure" so that's half a point to both isn't it ." I think you'll find half votes are allocated to Elmo. | |||
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"What I find sad is that people are basing their votes on the campaign. Both full of untold bollocks. For me it's how the EU (the organisation, not Europe) is structured and run and the lack of transparency and democracy." But you showed yesterday that you don't understand how the EU democracy works! It's a bit rich blaming the campaigns for being 'full of untold bollocks', when you yourself posted a video from Toby Young that was 'full of untold bollocks'. | |||
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"You remain camp are a bunch jokers... We can't even control our borders and your all sat there giving it remain... I'm literally living in Country full of half wits who can't think for themselves and let an unelected bunch of Germans and French blokes decide what happens in MY country... What on earth did my grandad ever go to war for !!! Democracy is not about getting told what to do by unelected Europeans my grandad would be spinning in his fucking grave " If your grandad is anything like my grandad, he fought in the war to protect people from fascism. So seeing his grandson throwing in his lot with the racists and fascists of the Leave campaign would have my grandad spinning in his grave, that's for sure. | |||
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"You remain camp are a bunch jokers... We can't even control our borders and your all sat there giving it remain... I'm literally living in Country full of half wits who can't think for themselves and let an unelected bunch of Germans and French blokes decide what happens in MY country... What on earth did my grandad ever go to war for !!! Democracy is not about getting told what to do by unelected Europeans my grandad would be spinning in his fucking grave " Most of the half wits know you missed out a word in your first sentence.. your Grand dad and others went to war to overthrow fascism, an intolerant regime.. perhaps do some research before making a wrong comparison? | |||
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"You remain camp are a bunch jokers... We can't even control our borders and your all sat there giving it remain... I'm literally living in Country full of half wits who can't think for themselves and let an unelected bunch of Germans and French blokes decide what happens in MY country... What on earth did my grandad ever go to war for !!! Democracy is not about getting told what to do by unelected Europeans my grandad would be spinning in his fucking grave Most of the half wits know you missed out a word in your first sentence.. your Grand dad and others went to war to overthrow fascism, an intolerant regime.. perhaps do some research before making a wrong comparison? " and you think I haven't done my research... You clearly haven't if your voting remain... Cameron cocksucker | |||
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"You remain camp are a bunch jokers... We can't even control our borders and your all sat there giving it remain... I'm literally living in Country full of half wits who can't think for themselves and let an unelected bunch of Germans and French blokes decide what happens in MY country... What on earth did my grandad ever go to war for !!! Democracy is not about getting told what to do by unelected Europeans my grandad would be spinning in his fucking grave Most of the half wits know you missed out a word in your first sentence.. your Grand dad and others went to war to overthrow fascism, an intolerant regime.. perhaps do some research before making a wrong comparison? and you think I haven't done my research... You clearly haven't if your voting remain... Cameron cocksucker" You make a strong case!  | |||
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"What I find sad is that people are basing their votes on the campaign. Both full of untold bollocks. For me it's how the EU (the organisation, not Europe) is structured and run and the lack of transparency and democracy. But you showed yesterday that you don't understand how the EU democracy works! It's a bit rich blaming the campaigns for being 'full of untold bollocks', when you yourself posted a video from Toby Young that was 'full of untold bollocks'." Her we go again. Stop having a go at me and maybe say why it's good to stay. Your attacks are getting very boring. | |||
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"Wow I missed a word in my sentence... i know full well why my grandad went to war and it isn't just fascism is it ... Half wit" you need to take some deep breaths maybe.. having a debate is fine but chucking out childish 'insults' doesn't add to it.. relax.. | |||
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"What I find sad is that people are basing their votes on the campaign. Both full of untold bollocks. For me it's how the EU (the organisation, not Europe) is structured and run and the lack of transparency and democracy. But you showed yesterday that you don't understand how the EU democracy works! It's a bit rich blaming the campaigns for being 'full of untold bollocks', when you yourself posted a video from Toby Young that was 'full of untold bollocks'. Her we go again. Stop having a go at me and maybe say why it's good to stay. Your attacks are getting very boring." You have a funny notion of what attacks are. It's a forum. If you put it up here, people can comment on it. | |||
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"I hope we go out. EU screwed if we go and other countries will follow, only then will it reform as it needs to" If we leave the EU, we won't gain any benefit from it being reformed. And nor will we have any influence over that reform. | |||
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"your Grand dad and others went to war to overthrow fascism, an intolerant regime.. perhaps do some research before making a wrong comparison? " A regime with plans to take over all of Europe. And these Granddads stopped them. | |||
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"What I find sad is that people are basing their votes on the campaign. Both full of untold bollocks. For me it's how the EU (the organisation, not Europe) is structured and run and the lack of transparency and democracy. But you showed yesterday that you don't understand how the EU democracy works! It's a bit rich blaming the campaigns for being 'full of untold bollocks', when you yourself posted a video from Toby Young that was 'full of untold bollocks'. Her we go again. Stop having a go at me and maybe say why it's good to stay. Your attacks are getting very boring. You have a funny notion of what attacks are. It's a forum. If you put it up here, people can comment on it. "Personal digs at my knowledge and intelligence. It's petty name calling and I'm bored of you | |||
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"we also can't vote out the leader of the EU whether we like there decisions or not... ITS NOT DEMOCRATIC please don't fool for the scare tactics used by remain! " The commissioners are also unelected. | |||
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Me? I'm voting one way or the other ... | |||
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"your Grand dad and others went to war to overthrow fascism, an intolerant regime.. perhaps do some research before making a wrong comparison? A regime with plans to take over all of Europe. And these Granddads stopped them." Yet Pinky and the Brain are still running free. | |||
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"your Grand dad and others went to war to overthrow fascism, an intolerant regime.. perhaps do some research before making a wrong comparison? A regime with plans to take over all of Europe. And these Granddads stopped them." so your saying in all honesty that the EU is the same as the 3rd reich? you do know that Churchill who led this country in those times was a staunch advocate of the reasons it was initially set up.. yes it has evolved and yes it has many faults but think a little hey.. | |||
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"I hope we go out. EU screwed if we go and other countries will follow, only then will it reform as it needs to If we leave the EU, we won't gain any benefit from it being reformed. And nor will we have any influence over that reform." Being 2nd largest contributor behind Germany I can assure you it will. If a company looses its 2nd biggest paying customer it needs to either replace it or restructure - business doesn't go on as normal. Other EU members are watching this closely looking at possibly following, if we go it will starts a dominoe effect! | |||
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"This is literally the biggest vote of all of our lives and what the remain camp is saying is Carry on as normal and these people are happy with it ... Immigration is at 300 THOUSAND a year! How can you relax?! we also can't vote out the leader of the EU whether we like there decisions or not... ITS NOT DEMOCRATIC please don't fool for the scare tactics used by remain! " do some (more) research on how many are not from the EU.. | |||
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"What I find sad is that people are basing their votes on the campaign. Both full of untold bollocks. For me it's how the EU (the organisation, not Europe) is structured and run and the lack of transparency and democracy. But you showed yesterday that you don't understand how the EU democracy works! It's a bit rich blaming the campaigns for being 'full of untold bollocks', when you yourself posted a video from Toby Young that was 'full of untold bollocks'. Her we go again. Stop having a go at me and maybe say why it's good to stay. Your attacks are getting very boring. You have a funny notion of what attacks are. It's a forum. If you put it up here, people can comment on it.
Personal digs at my knowledge and intelligence. It's petty name calling and I'm bored of you "I haven't called you any names. I haven't made any digs at your knowledge and intelligence. I have pointed out where you are wrong in your understanding of the workings of the EU, where you make claims to understand it. What is the problem? | |||
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"so your saying in all honesty that the EU is the same as the 3rd reich?" Really? You think I'd really think that? No need to answer, this thread is not a debate, it's just 'remainers' trying to pull the race card  | |||
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"You are the stupidest couple in the world" And you're an advert for Remain. | |||
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"I haven't made any digs at your knowledge and intelligence. I have pointed out where you are wrong in your understanding of the workings of the EU, where you make claims to understand it. What is the problem?" Oh the irony  "I have pointed out where you are wrong in your understanding of the workings of the EU, where you make claims to understand it." | |||
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"You are the stupidest couple in the world" oh dear oh dear really ??...no need !  | |||
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"Apologies for deviating off topic but _p4fun, your profile pic is stunning "Lol very kind xx  | |||
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"You are the stupidest couple in the world" use the quote button so other's can see whom your talking about.. | |||
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"Remain Can't believe the totally discredited £350 million figure is still being bandied around "Look up house of commons briefing notes and you will see the facts. Gross amount 350 million net amount this year 215. that is the govs own figure when we leave we can spend all the 350 on what WE decide, would you give a % of your salary to a third party so they could spend it on what they thought was good for you rather than decide for yourself? | |||
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"Remain Can't believe the totally discredited £350 million figure is still being bandied around
Look up house of commons briefing notes and you will see the facts. Gross amount 350 million net amount this year 215. that is the govs own figure when we leave we can spend all the 350 on what WE decide, would you give a % of your salary to a third party so they could spend it on what they thought was good for you rather than decide for yourself?". I know it's the gross figure. If they spent it as wisely as the EU have in the poorest areas of the UK (that were shamefully neglected by successive UK governments), yes I'd be happy to entrust my money to them | |||
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"Remain Can't believe the totally discredited £350 million figure is still being bandied around
Look up house of commons briefing notes and you will see the facts. Gross amount 350 million net amount this year 215. that is the govs own figure when we leave we can spend all the 350 on what WE decide, would you give a % of your salary to a third party so they could spend it on what they thought was good for you rather than decide for yourself?.
I know it's the gross figure.
If they spent it as wisely as the EU have in the poorest areas of the UK (that were shamefully neglected by successive UK governments), yes I'd be happy to entrust my money to them "Agreed! Considering what we get back for it, I wish we could give the EU more money! If the worst happens and Leave win, I think they are going to be a bit surprised to find that the piddling £350M a week they think is waiting to be spent doesn't start piling up like money from a slot machine, but evaporates along with the rest of the billions we lose in the inevitable economic hit. | |||
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"Leave. We will be much stronger when we can invest all the money sent to the EU in our services. NHS police firefighters army and border control to name a few. " You've got more chance of it being spent on building a giant water slide between London and Truro. If that money doesn't get swallowed by the markets, it will go into tax cuts. | |||
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"You remain camp are a bunch jokers... We can't even control our borders and your all sat there giving it remain... I'm literally living in Country full of half wits who can't think for themselves and let an unelected bunch of Germans and French blokes decide what happens in MY country... What on earth did my grandad ever go to war for !!! Democracy is not about getting told what to do by unelected Europeans my grandad would be spinning in his fucking grave " | |||
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"Remain Can't believe the totally discredited £350 million figure is still being bandied around
Look up house of commons briefing notes and you will see the facts. Gross amount 350 million net amount this year 215. that is the govs own figure when we leave we can spend all the 350 on what WE decide, would you give a % of your salary to a third party so they could spend it on what they thought was good for you rather than decide for yourself?"It's not £350m!! No where near that amount That's before the rebate, that we don't actually pay! Why do the leave campaign still band this figure about??? | |||
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"Leave. We will be much stronger when we can invest all the money sent to the EU in our services. NHS police firefighters army and border control to name a few. You've got more chance of it being spent on building a giant water slide between London and Truro. If that money doesn't get swallowed by the markets, it will go into tax cuts." Thats probably true. Shame we dont have people running the country who have its interests at its heart! The government dosnt want to leave so it wont happen. | |||
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"Remain Can't believe the totally discredited £350 million figure is still being bandied around
Look up house of commons briefing notes and you will see the facts. Gross amount 350 million net amount this year 215. that is the govs own figure when we leave we can spend all the 350 on what WE decide, would you give a % of your salary to a third party so they could spend it on what they thought was good for you rather than decide for yourself?.
I know it's the gross figure.
If they spent it as wisely as the EU have in the poorest areas of the UK (that were shamefully neglected by successive UK governments), yes I'd be happy to entrust my money to them "as i pointed out.... EU money has go to infrusture projects such as... Liverpool John Lennon Airport... Belfast George Best Airport the Birmingham NIA The Cardiff railway airport link the Newcastle/gateshead quayside project Manchester Metrolink station improvements and manchester sports city the Edinburgh/Borders Railway.... the natural history museum of wales... The Eden Project..... and thats without all the science money that has gone to uk universities... | |||
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"I believe in democracy. ....I didn't get to vote for anyone in power in the EU nor can I vote them out I'm afraid I'm OUT due to this "Actually, you did; the people who have the "power" in the EU are the council of ministers ( who include the ministers from the UK elected government , and the MEPs we elected . If you didn't vote, that's your problem . | |||
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"You remain camp are a bunch jokers... We can't even control our borders and your all sat there giving it remain... I'm literally living in Country full of half wits who can't think for themselves and let an unelected bunch of Germans and French blokes decide what happens in MY country... What on earth did my grandad ever go to war for !!! Democracy is not about getting told what to do by unelected Europeans my grandad would be spinning in his fucking grave " I suggest you watch C4 news(you know, the one which isn't BBC1, ITV or Sky Sports News)and listen to the responses of Gove and Johnson regarding immigration if they win. Both avoided the question of what they could do to reduce it. Both couldn't put a figure on what levels would be acceptable. Neither could say that immigration would go down if they won. They didn't want to answer. Because they haven't got a clue. They've been banging on about an Oz style points system, even though they have more problems than we have. So yeah.. | |||
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"I believe in democracy. ....I didn't get to vote for anyone in power in the EU nor can I vote them out I'm afraid I'm OUT due to this "There's someone called an MEP who's representing you right now(unless your MEP is like Farage and doesn't bother to turn up to meetings). If you can honestly, hand on heart, tell me who your local MEP is without using Google, then fair enough(sort of). If not. WHat are you going on about: why complain aboput being disenfranchised by the 'bureaucrats' when you haven't used your democratic vote itself? | |||
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"Only people like richard branson are for the remaining side funny that, the working class are for the leave side I,ll stick with the leave." Er. 95% of the Labour party?? The Trade Unions? There's basically Richard Dyson and sod all else. | |||
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"I believe in democracy. ....I didn't get to vote for anyone in power in the EU nor can I vote them out I'm afraid I'm OUT due to this
There's someone called an MEP who's representing you right now(unless your MEP is like Farage and doesn't bother to turn up to meetings).
If you can honestly, hand on heart, tell me who your local MEP is without using Google, then fair enough(sort of). If not. WHat are you going on about: why complain aboput being disenfranchised by the 'bureaucrats' when you haven't used your democratic vote itself?"We vote for pawns. The Kings and Queens are appointed. | |||
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"Leave , its taken a generation to get a chance to have our say on the eu and with all the problems its got i cant see any other option but to vote leave , i cant see them giving us a chance like this again no matter how bad things get with the eu so if we dont vote leave now we never will ." Well said. I'm a leaver. | |||
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"I believe in democracy. ....I didn't get to vote for anyone in power in the EU nor can I vote them out I'm afraid I'm OUT due to this
There's someone called an MEP who's representing you right now(unless your MEP is like Farage and doesn't bother to turn up to meetings).
If you can honestly, hand on heart, tell me who your local MEP is without using Google, then fair enough(sort of). If not. WHat are you going on about: why complain aboput being disenfranchised by the 'bureaucrats' when you haven't used your democratic vote itself?"Name one EU law proposed by an MEP. | |||
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"For the same reason that the remain camp continue to scare people by saying we wont be able to trade. What a load of crap! If we don't trade with the EU then we would be better off as our balance of payments deficit with them is huge so I think I know who will lose out the most! " no one has said that on either side, what has been agreed by both is that there will need to be trade deals done if we leave.. no one can say how long and what they will entail in relation to our contribution as part of that and what we will have to sign up to in order to get a deal done.. take a look at Norway and the other states in the EFTA and what they contribute etc.. | |||
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"I believe in democracy. ....I didn't get to vote for anyone in power in the EU nor can I vote them out I'm afraid I'm OUT due to this
There's someone called an MEP who's representing you right now(unless your MEP is like Farage and doesn't bother to turn up to meetings).
If you can honestly, hand on heart, tell me who your local MEP is without using Google, then fair enough(sort of). If not. WHat are you going on about: why complain aboput being disenfranchised by the 'bureaucrats' when you haven't used your democratic vote itself?
Name one EU law proposed by an MEP.
"Why do you think who proposes them is more important than who decides on them? | |||
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"I believe in democracy. ....I didn't get to vote for anyone in power in the EU nor can I vote them out I'm afraid I'm OUT due to this
There's someone called an MEP who's representing you right now(unless your MEP is like Farage and doesn't bother to turn up to meetings).
If you can honestly, hand on heart, tell me who your local MEP is without using Google, then fair enough(sort of). If not. WHat are you going on about: why complain aboput being disenfranchised by the 'bureaucrats' when you haven't used your democratic vote itself?
Name one EU law proposed by an MEP.
Why do you think who proposes them is more important than who decides on them?"Because the proposal controls the entire direction. You can't vote yes to a proposal that never comes. Hence why its our primary house (commons) that proposes laws and the lords can merely aprove or not. Would you suport the ability to propose laws to be taken from the commons and instead given to the house of lords? | |||
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"I believe in democracy. ....I didn't get to vote for anyone in power in the EU nor can I vote them out I'm afraid I'm OUT due to this
There's someone called an MEP who's representing you right now(unless your MEP is like Farage and doesn't bother to turn up to meetings).
If you can honestly, hand on heart, tell me who your local MEP is without using Google, then fair enough(sort of). If not. WHat are you going on about: why complain aboput being disenfranchised by the 'bureaucrats' when you haven't used your democratic vote itself?
We vote for pawns. The Kings and Queens are appointed. "Eh? | |||
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"Absolutely voting out - but whatever you end up voting - please do cast your vote" I heard 'If you don't know, don't go' when it comes to voting. I quite like that | |||
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"I believe in democracy. ....I didn't get to vote for anyone in power in the EU nor can I vote them out I'm afraid I'm OUT due to this
There's someone called an MEP who's representing you right now(unless your MEP is like Farage and doesn't bother to turn up to meetings).
If you can honestly, hand on heart, tell me who your local MEP is without using Google, then fair enough(sort of). If not. WHat are you going on about: why complain aboput being disenfranchised by the 'bureaucrats' when you haven't used your democratic vote itself?
Name one EU law proposed by an MEP.
Why do you think who proposes them is more important than who decides on them?
Because the proposal controls the entire direction.
You can't vote yes to a proposal that never comes.
Hence why its our primary house (commons) that proposes laws and the lords can merely aprove or not.
Would you suport the ability to propose laws to be taken from the commons and instead given to the house of lords?"Yes I would. The House of Lords has been shown to have the interests of the British people at heart and a much better approach to policy in the interest of the people than the current government on numerous occasions. What proposals that we need from the EU have never come? | |||
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"I believe in democracy. ....I didn't get to vote for anyone in power in the EU nor can I vote them out I'm afraid I'm OUT due to this
There's someone called an MEP who's representing you right now(unless your MEP is like Farage and doesn't bother to turn up to meetings).
If you can honestly, hand on heart, tell me who your local MEP is without using Google, then fair enough(sort of). If not. WHat are you going on about: why complain aboput being disenfranchised by the 'bureaucrats' when you haven't used your democratic vote itself?
Name one EU law proposed by an MEP.
"I forgot to add the caveat that I can;t name my own MEP. But then again, I have ummed and ahhed and have chosen to remain(for lots of reasons). It's kind of a bit more incumbent on the leavers to state this, if they have such a (farily legitimate)gripe about democracy.But yeah, I'm ignorant on this. Most journalists and MPS are clueless(if they're truthful;some are)on this. Even Economics editors for various news organisations. Which makes me feel less guilty. | |||
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"I'm not voting. I seriously have no idea if we're better off in or out. I can see benefits of leaving and staying and both sides have done my head in with their incessant scaremongering." If you have no idea, vote Remain. The majority of Leave voters have no idea about the issues they think they understand, so you can help balance things out a bit!  | |||
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"I believe in democracy. ....I didn't get to vote for anyone in power in the EU nor can I vote them out I'm afraid I'm OUT due to this
There's someone called an MEP who's representing you right now(unless your MEP is like Farage and doesn't bother to turn up to meetings).
If you can honestly, hand on heart, tell me who your local MEP is without using Google, then fair enough(sort of). If not. WHat are you going on about: why complain aboput being disenfranchised by the 'bureaucrats' when you haven't used your democratic vote itself?
Name one EU law proposed by an MEP.
Why do you think who proposes them is more important than who decides on them?
Because the proposal controls the entire direction.
You can't vote yes to a proposal that never comes.
Hence why its our primary house (commons) that proposes laws and the lords can merely aprove or not.
Would you suport the ability to propose laws to be taken from the commons and instead given to the house of lords?
Yes I would. The House of Lords has been shown to have the interests of the British people at heart and a much better approach to policy in the interest of the people than the current government on numerous occasions.
What proposals that we need from the EU have never come?"You've torpedoed any democracy argument you had sir: the Lords are undemocratic and are appointed by government, not the people... | |||
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"I believe in democracy. ....I didn't get to vote for anyone in power in the EU nor can I vote them out I'm afraid I'm OUT due to this
There's someone called an MEP who's representing you right now(unless your MEP is like Farage and doesn't bother to turn up to meetings).
If you can honestly, hand on heart, tell me who your local MEP is without using Google, then fair enough(sort of). If not. WHat are you going on about: why complain aboput being disenfranchised by the 'bureaucrats' when you haven't used your democratic vote itself?
Name one EU law proposed by an MEP.
Why do you think who proposes them is more important than who decides on them?
Because the proposal controls the entire direction.
You can't vote yes to a proposal that never comes.
Hence why its our primary house (commons) that proposes laws and the lords can merely aprove or not.
Would you suport the ability to propose laws to be taken from the commons and instead given to the house of lords?
Yes I would. The House of Lords has been shown to have the interests of the British people at heart and a much better approach to policy in the interest of the people than the current government on numerous occasions.
What proposals that we need from the EU have never come?
You've torpedoed any democracy argument you had sir: the Lords are undemocratic and are appointed by government, not the people..."No, I think I have neatly made the point that democracy does not automatically ensure a better result for the people. And this referendum is a great example. It's putting a major decision into the hands of people completely unqualified to have an opinion, let alone a vote. | |||
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"I believe in democracy. ....I didn't get to vote for anyone in power in the EU nor can I vote them out I'm afraid I'm OUT due to this
There's someone called an MEP who's representing you right now(unless your MEP is like Farage and doesn't bother to turn up to meetings).
If you can honestly, hand on heart, tell me who your local MEP is without using Google, then fair enough(sort of). If not. WHat are you going on about: why complain aboput being disenfranchised by the 'bureaucrats' when you haven't used your democratic vote itself?
Name one EU law proposed by an MEP.
Why do you think who proposes them is more important than who decides on them?
Because the proposal controls the entire direction.
You can't vote yes to a proposal that never comes.
Hence why its our primary house (commons) that proposes laws and the lords can merely aprove or not.
Would you suport the ability to propose laws to be taken from the commons and instead given to the house of lords?
Yes I would. The House of Lords has been shown to have the interests of the British people at heart and a much better approach to policy in the interest of the people than the current government on numerous occasions.
What proposals that we need from the EU have never come?
You've torpedoed any democracy argument you had sir: the Lords are undemocratic and are appointed by government, not the people...
No, I think I have neatly made the point that democracy does not automatically ensure a better result for the people.
And this referendum is a great example. It's putting a major decision into the hands of people completely unqualified to have an opinion, let alone a vote."Still don't get the Lords reference? I'm just annoyed, if nothing else, that neither campaign has been truthful with the facts, or given the available academic projections, or even countered 'facts' with facts. That bloody 350 million rubbish for starters. They're supposed to be the ones paid to use informed analysis and facts by academia and the civil service, and they haven't been using it. Apart from the leave campaign denouncing every negative forecast by the civil service and academia for leave. That came across as facetious. Wasn't intended that way. Pulling my hair out here. | |||
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"Remain Can't believe the totally discredited £350 million figure is still being bandied around
Look up house of commons briefing notes and you will see the facts. Gross amount 350 million net amount this year 215. that is the govs own figure when we leave we can spend all the 350 on what WE decide, would you give a % of your salary to a third party so they could spend it on what they thought was good for you rather than decide for yourself?"Again, it's not 350 million net. Not close. And it's not equivalent to giving away your salary. It's equivalent to paying for transport to get to work, or paying to join a club which gives you benefits. We're not just handing over cash for the sake of it! | |||
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"Leave" you do surprise me Centaur.. | |||
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"your Grand dad and others went to war to overthrow fascism, an intolerant regime.. perhaps do some research before making a wrong comparison? A regime with plans to take over all of Europe. And these Granddads stopped them. so your saying in all honesty that the EU is the same as the 3rd reich? you do know that Churchill who led this country in those times was a staunch advocate of the reasons it was initially set up.. yes it has evolved and yes it has many faults but think a little hey.. " Churchill also said given the choice between Europe and the open sea we must always choose the open sea. | |||
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"I believe in democracy. ....I didn't get to vote for anyone in power in the EU nor can I vote them out I'm afraid I'm OUT due to this
There's someone called an MEP who's representing you right now(unless your MEP is like Farage and doesn't bother to turn up to meetings).
If you can honestly, hand on heart, tell me who your local MEP is without using Google, then fair enough(sort of). If not. WHat are you going on about: why complain aboput being disenfranchised by the 'bureaucrats' when you haven't used your democratic vote itself?
Name one EU law proposed by an MEP.
Why do you think who proposes them is more important than who decides on them?
Because the proposal controls the entire direction.
You can't vote yes to a proposal that never comes.
Hence why its our primary house (commons) that proposes laws and the lords can merely aprove or not.
Would you suport the ability to propose laws to be taken from the commons and instead given to the house of lords?
Yes I would. The House of Lords has been shown to have the interests of the British people at heart and a much better approach to policy in the interest of the people than the current government on numerous occasions.
What proposals that we need from the EU have never come?
You've torpedoed any democracy argument you had sir: the Lords are undemocratic and are appointed by government, not the people...
No, I think I have neatly made the point that democracy does not automatically ensure a better result for the people.
And this referendum is a great example. It's putting a major decision into the hands of people completely unqualified to have an opinion, let alone a vote.
Still don't get the Lords reference?
I'm just annoyed, if nothing else, that neither campaign has been truthful with the facts, or given the available academic projections, or even countered 'facts' with facts. That bloody 350 million rubbish for starters. They're supposed to be the ones paid to use informed analysis and facts by academia and the civil service, and they haven't been using it.
Apart from the leave campaign denouncing every negative forecast by the civil service and academia for leave.
That came across as facetious. Wasn't intended that way.
Pulling my hair out here."When you see a job advertisement which figure do they give for the salary? It's alway the total sum, they don't say after national insurance and income tax your take home pay will be such and such. Same principle applies with the £350 per week figure. It's the total sum, which then you have the rebate deducted and the money we do get back the EU tells us how to spend it. We leave the EU we can take back control of all of that money. What gets me about Remainers is how they keep saying we have free trade with the EU. We don't because we pay an EU Membership fee to access the single market. If you are paying to access the market then it is not free. The EU membership fee is like a tariff, it's a terrible deal for which we have a load of other strings attached like EU law being supreme over British law, accepting free movement of people and they negotiate trade deals (at a snails pace) on our behalf. Over 80% of the world's trade is outside of the EU. That is where our focus should be not in a failing, inward looking, corrupt through lobbyists, protectionist block, which only has better economic growth than Antarctica, which is what the EU has unfortunately now become, a relic of the past which should be consigned to the dustbin of history where it belongs. | |||
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"your Grand dad and others went to war to overthrow fascism, an intolerant regime.. perhaps do some research before making a wrong comparison? A regime with plans to take over all of Europe. And these Granddads stopped them." Spain Portugal and Greece have become democracies. Ex central and eastern European states have or are struggling to meet higher democratic ideals. Why to join the EU. Great news for them and also great for us if in future European political classes are strung out over a summit all nighter than the continent's youth strung out over barbed wire in a battlefield | |||
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"Leave" You kept that quiet | |||
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"your Grand dad and others went to war to overthrow fascism, an intolerant regime.. perhaps do some research before making a wrong comparison? A regime with plans to take over all of Europe. And these Granddads stopped them. Spain Portugal and Greece have become democracies. Ex central and eastern European states have or are struggling to meet higher democratic ideals. Why to join the EU. Great news for them and also great for us if in future European political classes are strung out over a summit all nighter than the continent's youth strung out over barbed wire in a battlefield " Look at employment levels and the state of finance in countries like Greece, Spain and Portugal now, the EU has been a disaster for them. | |||
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"Leave"  | |||
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"your Grand dad and others went to war to overthrow fascism, an intolerant regime.. perhaps do some research before making a wrong comparison? A regime with plans to take over all of Europe. And these Granddads stopped them. Spain Portugal and Greece have become democracies. Ex central and eastern European states have or are struggling to meet higher democratic ideals. Why to join the EU. Great news for them and also great for us if in future European political classes are strung out over a summit all nighter than the continent's youth strung out over barbed wire in a battlefield Look at employment levels and the state of finance in countries like Greece, Spain and Portugal now, the EU has been a disaster for them. " As opposed to a miltary junta killing people ? I suppose it depends on your _iewpoint | |||
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"The eu started with noble intentions, single market and all that, then began bloating into a huge corrupt kraken that will eventually put it's tentacles into every aspect of your daily lives. It has become an inherently corrupt institution where the few prop up the many. It's already brought in new members, whose greatest export is people and will in time encompass more and the only people supporting it's modus operandi are the very people that benefit the most from it. It's no wonder the large corporations are urging us to stay in, they love the cheap labor it brings. Workers rights my arse, what about the under cut brits or the non eu uber skilled workers that don't get a look in. How about all the corrupt southern european states that have their very infrastracture propped up by eu subsidies, all paid for by the main contributers. A vote for out means no going back....fucking good, cos god only knows what they've got up their sleeves once this referendum is all done and dusted. So we'll lose our seat at the table, the one that doesn't really count for shit, cos they basically do as they please anyway whilst telling us non, nein and un coulez vous batard. Vote remain by all means and be it your heads "Bollocks, be it "on" your heads | |||
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"The eu started with noble intentions, single market and all that, then began bloating into a huge corrupt kraken that will eventually put it's tentacles into every aspect of your daily lives. It has become an inherently corrupt institution where the few prop up the many. It's already brought in new members, whose greatest export is people and will in time encompass more and the only people supporting it's modus operandi are the very people that benefit the most from it. It's no wonder the large corporations are urging us to stay in, they love the cheap labor it brings. Workers rights my arse, what about the under cut brits or the non eu uber skilled workers that don't get a look in. How about all the corrupt southern european states that have their very infrastracture propped up by eu subsidies, all paid for by the main contributers. A vote for out means no going back....fucking good, cos god only knows what they've got up their sleeves once this referendum is all done and dusted. So we'll lose our seat at the table, the one that doesn't really count for shit, cos they basically do as they please anyway whilst telling us non, nein and un coulez vous batard. Vote remain by all means and be it your heads
Bollocks, be it "on" your heads "That's democracy I get a choice
Vote remain as vote leave hasn't an economic case or provided a idea of which way to go in the 5 years of uncertainty. Being an isolationist only hurts us with economic costs that our competitors won't have. | |||
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"LEAVE's the way to go!" I'm astounded by the parochialism, pessimism and gullibilty of the British public who have fallen for the Remain scaremongering... What has the EU ever done for United Kingdom other than take away the supremacy of our courts, the legislative powers of our parliament, border control and impose unsustainable bills to cater for the poorer, economically unviable majority of the EU countries? It's highly irascible to think that a nation that once conrtrolled one-fifth of the earth's surface, the proprietor of world's business language, that's always been one of leading lights in science, medicine and technology will be incapable of reaching business deals with the rapidly growing emerging markets of South East Asia, India, South America, the US (never mind Obama, his tenure ends in a few months) and China on its own, if we break out of a doomed EU. The EU market is saturated and we need to reach out further for sustainable long term growth. The UK buys more than it sells to the EU; what economic paradigm tells you this is practicable long term? They need us, the 2nd largest European economy. Ironically, non EU smaller Norway sells more to the EU than we do, without the burden of paying for the upkeep of the poorer EU countries, or opening its borders to them. With our sovereignty restored, we can chart our own course, allow the best brains from the world to come here, reassert our positions in the Security Council and NATO, reach out to the Commonwealth for trade, build back all aspects of our economy that have been ruined by hostile EU policies... A sound economy (and more jobs for British people) backed by good old pound sterling (if we can hold on to it, post Remain apocalypse) is what we need; not bloated bills, stiffling meddling and open borders | |||
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"Out x2 were British born and bred we are not voting remain because then we will be European we don't want that rule Britannia make Britain great again take back your right to be governed from London not Brussels there's 3 other countries won't to leave the EU as it's starting to fall apart as it it we're for out "Rule Britannia is an unfortunate cultural reference. | |||
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"LEAVE's the way to go! I'm astounded by the parochialism, pessimism and gullibilty of the British public who have fallen for the Remain scaremongering... What has the EU ever done for United Kingdom other than take away the supremacy of our courts, the legislative powers of our parliament, border control and impose unsustainable bills to cater for the poorer, economically unviable majority of the EU countries? It's highly irascible to think that a nation that once conrtrolled one-fifth of the earth's surface, the proprietor of world's business language, that's always been one of leading lights in science, medicine and technology will be incapable of reaching business deals with the rapidly growing emerging markets of South East Asia, India, South America, the US (never mind Obama, his tenure ends in a few months) and China on its own, if we break out of a doomed EU. The EU market is saturated and we need to reach out further for sustainable long term growth. The UK buys more than it sells to the EU; what economic paradigm tells you this is practicable long term? They need us, the 2nd largest European economy. Ironically, non EU smaller Norway sells more to the EU than we do, without the burden of paying for the upkeep of the poorer EU countries, or opening its borders to them. With our sovereignty restored, we can chart our own course, allow the best brains from the world to come here, reassert our positions in the Security Council and NATO, reach out to the Commonwealth for trade, build back all aspects of our economy that have been ruined by hostile EU policies... A sound economy (and more jobs for British people) backed by good old pound sterling (if we can hold on to it, post Remain apocalypse) is what we need; not bloated bills, stiffling meddling and open borders " And the sun need never set on empire again Who'll join me in a resounding chorus of Rule Britannia? | |||
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"I believe in democracy. ....I didn't get to vote for anyone in power in the EU nor can I vote them out I'm afraid I'm OUT due to this
There's someone called an MEP who's representing you right now(unless your MEP is like Farage and doesn't bother to turn up to meetings).
If you can honestly, hand on heart, tell me who your local MEP is without using Google, then fair enough(sort of). If not. WHat are you going on about: why complain aboput being disenfranchised by the 'bureaucrats' when you haven't used your democratic vote itself?
Name one EU law proposed by an MEP.
Why do you think who proposes them is more important than who decides on them?
Because the proposal controls the entire direction.
You can't vote yes to a proposal that never comes.
Hence why its our primary house (commons) that proposes laws and the lords can merely aprove or not.
Would you suport the ability to propose laws to be taken from the commons and instead given to the house of lords?
Yes I would. The House of Lords has been shown to have the interests of the British people at heart and a much better approach to policy in the interest of the people than the current government on numerous occasions.
What proposals that we need from the EU have never come?
You've torpedoed any democracy argument you had sir: the Lords are undemocratic and are appointed by government, not the people...
No, I think I have neatly made the point that democracy does not automatically ensure a better result for the people.
And this referendum is a great example. It's putting a major decision into the hands of people completely unqualified to have an opinion, let alone a vote.
Still don't get the Lords reference?
I'm just annoyed, if nothing else, that neither campaign has been truthful with the facts, or given the available academic projections, or even countered 'facts' with facts. That bloody 350 million rubbish for starters. They're supposed to be the ones paid to use informed analysis and facts by academia and the civil service, and they haven't been using it.
Apart from the leave campaign denouncing every negative forecast by the civil service and academia for leave.
That came across as facetious. Wasn't intended that way.
Pulling my hair out here.
When you see a job advertisement which figure do they give for the salary? It's alway the total sum, they don't say after national insurance and income tax your take home pay will be such and such. Same principle applies with the £350 per week figure. It's the total sum, which then you have the rebate deducted and the money we do get back the EU tells us how to spend it. We leave the EU we can take back control of all of that money.
What gets me about Remainers is how they keep saying we have free trade with the EU. We don't because we pay an EU Membership fee to access the single market. If you are paying to access the market then it is not free. The EU membership fee is like a tariff, it's a terrible deal for which we have a load of other strings attached like EU law being supreme over British law, accepting free movement of people and they negotiate trade deals (at a snails pace) on our behalf. Over 80% of the world's trade is outside of the EU. That is where our focus should be not in a failing, inward looking, corrupt through lobbyists, protectionist block, which only has better economic growth than Antarctica, which is what the EU has unfortunately now become, a relic of the past which should be consigned to the dustbin of history where it belongs. "Yeah I know. But the tariff would be a hell of a lot higher if we left. ANd(and i really do feel this is so)I'm sad to say that I don't trust our government to spend it more wisely(the diff between the gross and net). Bonkers I know. But that's my feeling.It'll be a capitalist free for all if we leave, a feeding frenzy. ANd the rich will...and the poor will... | |||
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"Leave purely because when the leaders of both political parties want us to stay you got to vote against them. Both campaigns have been riddled with lies and misinformation." I don't get your logic??!? | |||
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"LEAVE's the way to go! I'm astounded by the parochialism, pessimism and gullibilty of the British public who have fallen for the Remain scaremongering... What has the EU ever done for United Kingdom other than take away the supremacy of our courts, the legislative powers of our parliament, border control and impose unsustainable bills to cater for the poorer, economically unviable majority of the EU countries? It's highly irascible to think that a nation that once conrtrolled one-fifth of the earth's surface, the proprietor of world's business language, that's always been one of leading lights in science, medicine and technology will be incapable of reaching business deals with the rapidly growing emerging markets of South East Asia, India, South America, the US (never mind Obama, his tenure ends in a few months) and China on its own, if we break out of a doomed EU. The EU market is saturated and we need to reach out further for sustainable long term growth. The UK buys more than it sells to the EU; what economic paradigm tells you this is practicable long term? They need us, the 2nd largest European economy. Ironically, non EU smaller Norway sells more to the EU than we do, without the burden of paying for the upkeep of the poorer EU countries, or opening its borders to them. With our sovereignty restored, we can chart our own course, allow the best brains from the world to come here, reassert our positions in the Security Council and NATO, reach out to the Commonwealth for trade, build back all aspects of our economy that have been ruined by hostile EU policies... A sound economy (and more jobs for British people) backed by good old pound sterling (if we can hold on to it, post Remain apocalypse) is what we need; not bloated bills, stiffling meddling and open borders And the sun need never set on empire again Who'll join me in a resounding chorus of Rule Britannia?" Empire based on exploitation of others' resources and slavery and military might. Yeah. Way to go. That idea was outdated in the Nineteenth Century. You and Putin would get along. Haven't you heard that it's cultural and financial domination these days? | |||
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"LEAVE's the way to go! I'm astounded by the parochialism, pessimism and gullibilty of the British public who have fallen for the Remain scaremongering... What has the EU ever done for United Kingdom other than take away the supremacy of our courts, the legislative powers of our parliament, border control and impose unsustainable bills to cater for the poorer, economically unviable majority of the EU countries? It's highly irascible to think that a nation that once conrtrolled one-fifth of the earth's surface, the proprietor of world's business language, that's always been one of leading lights in science, medicine and technology will be incapable of reaching business deals with the rapidly growing emerging markets of South East Asia, India, South America, the US (never mind Obama, his tenure ends in a few months) and China on its own, if we break out of a doomed EU. The EU market is saturated and we need to reach out further for sustainable long term growth. The UK buys more than it sells to the EU; what economic paradigm tells you this is practicable long term? They need us, the 2nd largest European economy. Ironically, non EU smaller Norway sells more to the EU than we do, without the burden of paying for the upkeep of the poorer EU countries, or opening its borders to them. With our sovereignty restored, we can chart our own course, allow the best brains from the world to come here, reassert our positions in the Security Council and NATO, reach out to the Commonwealth for trade, build back all aspects of our economy that have been ruined by hostile EU policies... A sound economy (and more jobs for British people) backed by good old pound sterling (if we can hold on to it, post Remain apocalypse) is what we need; not bloated bills, stiffling meddling and open borders And the sun need never set on empire again Who'll join me in a resounding chorus of Rule Britannia? Empire based on exploitation of others' resources and slavery and military might. Yeah. Way to go. That idea was outdated in the Nineteenth Century. You and Putin would get along. Haven't you heard that it's cultural and financial domination these days?" I think I just fell in love With you a Little bit! | |||
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"LEAVE's the way to go! I'm astounded by the parochialism, pessimism and gullibilty of the British public who have fallen for the Remain scaremongering... What has the EU ever done for United Kingdom other than take away the supremacy of our courts, the legislative powers of our parliament, border control and impose unsustainable bills to cater for the poorer, economically unviable majority of the EU countries? It's highly irascible to think that a nation that once conrtrolled one-fifth of the earth's surface, the proprietor of world's business language, that's always been one of leading lights in science, medicine and technology will be incapable of reaching business deals with the rapidly growing emerging markets of South East Asia, India, South America, the US (never mind Obama, his tenure ends in a few months) and China on its own, if we break out of a doomed EU. The EU market is saturated and we need to reach out further for sustainable long term growth. The UK buys more than it sells to the EU; what economic paradigm tells you this is practicable long term? They need us, the 2nd largest European economy. Ironically, non EU smaller Norway sells more to the EU than we do, without the burden of paying for the upkeep of the poorer EU countries, or opening its borders to them. With our sovereignty restored, we can chart our own course, allow the best brains from the world to come here, reassert our positions in the Security Council and NATO, reach out to the Commonwealth for trade, build back all aspects of our economy that have been ruined by hostile EU policies... A sound economy (and more jobs for British people) backed by good old pound sterling (if we can hold on to it, post Remain apocalypse) is what we need; not bloated bills, stiffling meddling and open borders And the sun need never set on empire again Who'll join me in a resounding chorus of Rule Britannia? Empire based on exploitation of others' resources and slavery and military might. Yeah. Way to go. That idea was outdated in the Nineteenth Century. You and Putin would get along. Haven't you heard that it's cultural and financial domination these days? I think I just fell in love With you a Little bit! " Tut. Don't say that: I'll either get excited, or scared...! | |||
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"Actually..." Whoopsie - rabbit in the head lights | |||
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"Actually... Whoopsie - rabbit in the head lights "And we're not your demographic | |||
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"LEAVE's the way to go! I'm astounded by the parochialism, pessimism and gullibilty of the British public who have fallen for the Remain scaremongering... What has the EU ever done for United Kingdom other than take away the supremacy of our courts, the legislative powers of our parliament, border control and impose unsustainable bills to cater for the poorer, economically unviable majority of the EU countries? It's highly irascible to think that a nation that once conrtrolled one-fifth of the earth's surface, the proprietor of world's business language, that's always been one of leading lights in science, medicine and technology will be incapable of reaching business deals with the rapidly growing emerging markets of South East Asia, India, South America, the US (never mind Obama, his tenure ends in a few months) and China on its own, if we break out of a doomed EU. The EU market is saturated and we need to reach out further for sustainable long term growth. The UK buys more than it sells to the EU; what economic paradigm tells you this is practicable long term? They need us, the 2nd largest European economy. Ironically, non EU smaller Norway sells more to the EU than we do, without the burden of paying for the upkeep of the poorer EU countries, or opening its borders to them. With our sovereignty restored, we can chart our own course, allow the best brains from the world to come here, reassert our positions in the Security Council and NATO, reach out to the Commonwealth for trade, build back all aspects of our economy that have been ruined by hostile EU policies... A sound economy (and more jobs for British people) backed by good old pound sterling (if we can hold on to it, post Remain apocalypse) is what we need; not bloated bills, stiffling meddling and open borders " Absolutely brilliantly put. | |||
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"350 million its costs us a week if we stay. The NHS could use that money so much better Remain As it doesn't cost anywhere near that amount its . to be less than half that amount ..out of a total government spend of 720 billion .." Even that fat fucker Boris admits that £350m/week isnt the true cost | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"LEAVE's the way to go! I'm astounded by the parochialism, pessimism and gullibilty of the British public who have fallen for the Remain scaremongering... What has the EU ever done for United Kingdom other than take away the supremacy of our courts, the legislative powers of our parliament, border control and impose unsustainable bills to cater for the poorer, economically unviable majority of the EU countries? It's highly irascible to think that a nation that once conrtrolled one-fifth of the earth's surface, the proprietor of world's business language, that's always been one of leading lights in science, medicine and technology will be incapable of reaching business deals with the rapidly growing emerging markets of South East Asia, India, South America, the US (never mind Obama, his tenure ends in a few months) and China on its own, if we break out of a doomed EU. The EU market is saturated and we need to reach out further for sustainable long term growth. The UK buys more than it sells to the EU; what economic paradigm tells you this is practicable long term? They need us, the 2nd largest European economy. Ironically, non EU smaller Norway sells more to the EU than we do, without the burden of paying for the upkeep of the poorer EU countries, or opening its borders to them. With our sovereignty restored, we can chart our own course, allow the best brains from the world to come here, reassert our positions in the Security Council and NATO, reach out to the Commonwealth for trade, build back all aspects of our economy that have been ruined by hostile EU policies... A sound economy (and more jobs for British people) backed by good old pound sterling (if we can hold on to it, post Remain apocalypse) is what we need; not bloated bills, stiffling meddling and open borders Absolutely brilliantly put. " Christ... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"LEAVE's the way to go! I'm astounded by the parochialism, pessimism and gullibilty of the British public who have fallen for the Remain scaremongering... What has the EU ever done for United Kingdom other than take away the supremacy of our courts, the legislative powers of our parliament, border control and impose unsustainable bills to cater for the poorer, economically unviable majority of the EU countries? It's highly irascible to think that a nation that once conrtrolled one-fifth of the earth's surface, the proprietor of world's business language, that's always been one of leading lights in science, medicine and technology will be incapable of reaching business deals with the rapidly growing emerging markets of South East Asia, India, South America, the US (never mind Obama, his tenure ends in a few months) and China on its own, if we break out of a doomed EU. The EU market is saturated and we need to reach out further for sustainable long term growth. The UK buys more than it sells to the EU; what economic paradigm tells you this is practicable long term? They need us, the 2nd largest European economy. Ironically, non EU smaller Norway sells more to the EU than we do, without the burden of paying for the upkeep of the poorer EU countries, or opening its borders to them. With our sovereignty restored, we can chart our own course, allow the best brains from the world to come here, reassert our positions in the Security Council and NATO, reach out to the Commonwealth for trade, build back all aspects of our economy that have been ruined by hostile EU policies... A sound economy (and more jobs for British people) backed by good old pound sterling (if we can hold on to it, post Remain apocalypse) is what we need; not bloated bills, stiffling meddling and open borders " Great point about Norway.....except that it's bollocks. The have open borders, are part of Schengen and pay for access to the single market. But hey, dont let the truth get in the way of a a good old rant. I sometimes wonder about the intelligence of some of the leavers | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"LEAVE's the way to go! I'm astounded by the parochialism, pessimism and gullibilty of the British public who have fallen for the Remain scaremongering... What has the EU ever done for United Kingdom other than take away the supremacy of our courts, the legislative powers of our parliament, border control and impose unsustainable bills to cater for the poorer, economically unviable majority of the EU countries? It's highly irascible to think that a nation that once conrtrolled one-fifth of the earth's surface, the proprietor of world's business language, that's always been one of leading lights in science, medicine and technology will be incapable of reaching business deals with the rapidly growing emerging markets of South East Asia, India, South America, the US (never mind Obama, his tenure ends in a few months) and China on its own, if we break out of a doomed EU. The EU market is saturated and we need to reach out further for sustainable long term growth. The UK buys more than it sells to the EU; what economic paradigm tells you this is practicable long term? They need us, the 2nd largest European economy. Ironically, non EU smaller Norway sells more to the EU than we do, without the burden of paying for the upkeep of the poorer EU countries, or opening its borders to them. With our sovereignty restored, we can chart our own course, allow the best brains from the world to come here, reassert our positions in the Security Council and NATO, reach out to the Commonwealth for trade, build back all aspects of our economy that have been ruined by hostile EU policies... A sound economy (and more jobs for British people) backed by good old pound sterling (if we can hold on to it, post Remain apocalypse) is what we need; not bloated bills, stiffling meddling and open borders Great point about Norway.....except that it's bollocks. The have open borders, are part of Schengen and pay for access to the single market. But hey, dont let the truth get in the way of a a good old rant. I sometimes wonder about the intelligence of some of the leavers" Ta. I couldn't be arsed(mostly due to tiredness as opposed to not wanting to repsond). How much do they pay though? I tried to find out last week but couldn't find the info(it was a feeble abortive attempt). | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Right I'll make this a quick one!!! Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant. Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant. Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds. Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant. British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales. Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan. Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200. M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan. Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants. Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant. Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant. Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant. Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding. Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing. ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase. JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry. UK airports are owned by a Spanish company. Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company. Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies. The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online. Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada. 39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK. The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently. Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK,., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations. I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there. I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany. Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't. If you think the EU is a good idea, 1/ You haven't read the party manifesto of The European Peoples' Party. 2/ You haven't had to deal with EU petty bureaucracy tearing your business down. 3/ You don't think it matters. What do you think am going to do???" However - the EU grants are supported by our government. Half of the companies you've Listed are American and to AVOID the work going to China the deal was struck to keep production in the EU - and as for the trains in derby - we overpriced Ourselves by 25% and a Delivery date 10 years longer than the German firm. Britain does not have a Product for Export anymore (thank you unions) we shafted ourselves in the 70's and 80's with bad manufacturing and over pricing - the EU saved our sorry arsed country that was at the behest of unions, constantly on strike and still bills to pay This is not that world anymore - we can affect change better from within | |||
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"Right I'll make this a quick one!!! Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant. Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant. Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds. Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant. British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales. Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan. Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200. M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan. Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants. Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant. Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant. Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant. Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding. Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing. ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase. JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry. UK airports are owned by a Spanish company. Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company. Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies. The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online. Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada. 39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK. The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently. Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK,., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations. I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there. I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany. Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't. If you think the EU is a good idea, 1/ You haven't read the party manifesto of The European Peoples' Party. 2/ You haven't had to deal with EU petty bureaucracy tearing your business down. 3/ You don't think it matters. What do you think am going to do???" This is a false flag, a copy and paste job currently doing the rounds via Brexiters. There is absolutely no evidence that EU grants were ever used for any of these things. Many British companies have been bought over but that has nothing to do with the EU. Successive governments have been happy to see our businesses sold off! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Right I'll make this a quick one!!! Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant. Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant. Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds. Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant. British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales. Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan. Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200. M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan. Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants. Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant. Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant. Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant. Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding. Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing. ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase. JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry. UK airports are owned by a Spanish company. Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company. Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies. The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online. Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada. 39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK. The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently. Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK,., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations. I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there. I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany. Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't. If you think the EU is a good idea, 1/ You haven't read the party manifesto of The European Peoples' Party. 2/ You haven't had to deal with EU petty bureaucracy tearing your business down. 3/ You don't think it matters. What do you think am going to do??? This is a false flag, a copy and paste job currently doing the rounds via Brexiters. There is absolutely no evidence that EU grants were ever used for any of these things. Many British companies have been bought over but that has nothing to do with the EU. Successive governments have been happy to see our businesses sold off! " Armed forces controlled by Brussels? Really?!? Oh well. At least we wouldn't have as many wars(started by the UK) creating refugees who flee their countries and come to the safest place they can get to seeing as on balance European nations(apart from ourselves and France)soend fuck all of their time on war. We could use some of that offset on spending to house the poor bastards(as opposed to letting the far more humane Germans, Swedes, and Lebanon to do the humane thing for us instead). | |||
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"LEAVE's the way to go! I'm astounded by the parochialism, pessimism and gullibilty of the British public who have fallen for the Remain scaremongering... What has the EU ever done for United Kingdom other than take away the supremacy of our courts, the legislative powers of our parliament, border control and impose unsustainable bills to cater for the poorer, economically unviable majority of the EU countries? It's highly irascible to think that a nation that once conrtrolled one-fifth of the earth's surface, the proprietor of world's business language, that's always been one of leading lights in science, medicine and technology will be incapable of reaching business deals with the rapidly growing emerging markets of South East Asia, India, South America, the US (never mind Obama, his tenure ends in a few months) and China on its own, if we break out of a doomed EU. The EU market is saturated and we need to reach out further for sustainable long term growth. The UK buys more than it sells to the EU; what economic paradigm tells you this is practicable long term? They need us, the 2nd largest European economy. Ironically, non EU smaller Norway sells more to the EU than we do, without the burden of paying for the upkeep of the poorer EU countries, or opening its borders to them. With our sovereignty restored, we can chart our own course, allow the best brains from the world to come here, reassert our positions in the Security Council and NATO, reach out to the Commonwealth for trade, build back all aspects of our economy that have been ruined by hostile EU policies... A sound economy (and more jobs for British people) backed by good old pound sterling (if we can hold on to it, post Remain apocalypse) is what we need; not bloated bills, stiffling meddling and open borders Great point about Norway.....except that it's bollocks. The have open borders, are part of Schengen and pay for access to the single market. But hey, dont let the truth get in the way of a a good old rant. I sometimes wonder about the intelligence of some of the leavers Ta. I couldn't be arsed(mostly due to tiredness as opposed to not wanting to repsond). How much do they pay though? I tried to find out last week but couldn't find the info(it was a feeble abortive attempt). "Here you go http://www.eu-norway.org/eu/Financial-contribution/ and http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35943216 Norwegians contribute £106/head, we contribute £128/head. The Norwegians have no say whatsoever over anything to od with the EU, they just cough up. Clearyl they think it's worth it or they wouldnt do it | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"LEAVE's the way to go! I'm astounded by the parochialism, pessimism and gullibilty of the British public who have fallen for the Remain scaremongering... What has the EU ever done for United Kingdom other than take away the supremacy of our courts, the legislative powers of our parliament, border control and impose unsustainable bills to cater for the poorer, economically unviable majority of the EU countries? It's highly irascible to think that a nation that once conrtrolled one-fifth of the earth's surface, the proprietor of world's business language, that's always been one of leading lights in science, medicine and technology will be incapable of reaching business deals with the rapidly growing emerging markets of South East Asia, India, South America, the US (never mind Obama, his tenure ends in a few months) and China on its own, if we break out of a doomed EU. The EU market is saturated and we need to reach out further for sustainable long term growth. The UK buys more than it sells to the EU; what economic paradigm tells you this is practicable long term? They need us, the 2nd largest European economy. Ironically, non EU smaller Norway sells more to the EU than we do, without the burden of paying for the upkeep of the poorer EU countries, or opening its borders to them. With our sovereignty restored, we can chart our own course, allow the best brains from the world to come here, reassert our positions in the Security Council and NATO, reach out to the Commonwealth for trade, build back all aspects of our economy that have been ruined by hostile EU policies... A sound economy (and more jobs for British people) backed by good old pound sterling (if we can hold on to it, post Remain apocalypse) is what we need; not bloated bills, stiffling meddling and open borders Great point about Norway.....except that it's bollocks. The have open borders, are part of Schengen and pay for access to the single market. But hey, dont let the truth get in the way of a a good old rant. I sometimes wonder about the intelligence of some of the leavers Ta. I couldn't be arsed(mostly due to tiredness as opposed to not wanting to repsond). How much do they pay though? I tried to find out last week but couldn't find the info(it was a feeble abortive attempt).
Here you go
http://www.eu-norway.org/eu/Financial-contribution/
and
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35943216
Norwegians contribute £106/head, we contribute £128/head. The Norwegians have no say whatsoever over anything to od with the EU, they just cough up. Clearyl they think it's worth it or they wouldnt do it"Thank you sir. Gold sticker for you! | |||
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"Right I'll make this a quick one!!! Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant. Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant. Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds. Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant. British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales. Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan. Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200. M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan. Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants. Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant. Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant. Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant. Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding. Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing. ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase. JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry. UK airports are owned by a Spanish company. Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company. Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies. The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online. Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada. 39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK. The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently. Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK,., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations. I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there. I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany. Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't. If you think the EU is a good idea, 1/ You haven't read the party manifesto of The European Peoples' Party. 2/ You haven't had to deal with EU petty bureaucracy tearing your business down. 3/ You don't think it matters. What do you think am going to do???" Continue posting rubbish? Oh and the point about not teaching electronic technology because of EU regulations.....guess what it's tosh. Go on to any FE college website and choose form a range of BTEC or C+G electronic and electrotechnical programmes..... if you believe what youve posted is factually correct you really do have a problem | |||
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"LEAVE's the way to go! I'm astounded by the parochialism, pessimism and gullibilty of the British public who have fallen for the Remain scaremongering... What has the EU ever done for United Kingdom other than take away the supremacy of our courts, the legislative powers of our parliament, border control and impose unsustainable bills to cater for the poorer, economically unviable majority of the EU countries? It's highly irascible to think that a nation that once conrtrolled one-fifth of the earth's surface, the proprietor of world's business language, that's always been one of leading lights in science, medicine and technology will be incapable of reaching business deals with the rapidly growing emerging markets of South East Asia, India, South America, the US (never mind Obama, his tenure ends in a few months) and China on its own, if we break out of a doomed EU. The EU market is saturated and we need to reach out further for sustainable long term growth. The UK buys more than it sells to the EU; what economic paradigm tells you this is practicable long term? They need us, the 2nd largest European economy. Ironically, non EU smaller Norway sells more to the EU than we do, without the burden of paying for the upkeep of the poorer EU countries, or opening its borders to them. With our sovereignty restored, we can chart our own course, allow the best brains from the world to come here, reassert our positions in the Security Council and NATO, reach out to the Commonwealth for trade, build back all aspects of our economy that have been ruined by hostile EU policies... A sound economy (and more jobs for British people) backed by good old pound sterling (if we can hold on to it, post Remain apocalypse) is what we need; not bloated bills, stiffling meddling and open borders Great point about Norway.....except that it's bollocks. The have open borders, are part of Schengen and pay for access to the single market. But hey, dont let the truth get in the way of a a good old rant. I sometimes wonder about the intelligence of some of the leavers Ta. I couldn't be arsed(mostly due to tiredness as opposed to not wanting to repsond). How much do they pay though? I tried to find out last week but couldn't find the info(it was a feeble abortive attempt).
Here you go
http://www.eu-norway.org/eu/Financial-contribution/
and
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35943216
Norwegians contribute £106/head, we contribute £128/head. The Norwegians have no say whatsoever over anything to od with the EU, they just cough up. Clearyl they think it's worth it or they wouldnt do it
Thank you sir. Gold sticker for you!"Im continually astounded that people keep on posting lies and noone bothers to tell them that it's bollocks. No wonder c***s like Gove, Farage and BoJo get so much traction....they can say anything and people fall for it. Perhaps if i keep repeating that i have 12" dick often enough, someone will believe me? Frankly it's about as accurate as most of the stuff spouted by Leave | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
