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LGBT Rights
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"This is one area, workers rights another that i have more faith in with the people in Brussels than in Westminster.. whilst i would like to think that these rights will be protected, with some on the far right of the Tory party i am far from confident.." . I was genuinely interested... Which laws have the EU brought in that protects you | |||
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"And I thought the continuous snog, fuck, avoid threads were never ending...." Boom boom | |||
"Why are you talking about the Tories as if there is no other political party in this country?" Well they are the party of Section 28. And I did mention UKIP, no doubt LGBT rights are too politically correct for them. | |||
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"So if we leave, are all these rights that have been implemented for workers, lgbt and others going to be retracted? Or will they simply be kept or intergrated into a new british bill of rights. Will the dead rise? Will be enslaved by our animal masters. Will the staypuft marshmallow man come and destroy london, aliens anyone? I need to know this stuff, i've got alot of fallout 4 to get through and i don't need these fuckin distractions" Will i still be able to get kronenbourg? Im getting worried cos no one will tell me | |||
"So if we leave, are all these rights that have been implemented for workers, lgbt and others going to be retracted? Or will they simply be kept or intergrated into a new british bill of rights. Will the dead rise? Will be enslaved by our animal masters. Will the staypuft marshmallow man come and destroy london, aliens anyone? I need to know this stuff, i've got alot of fallout 4 to get through and i don't need these fuckin distractions" We could have a situation where LGBT people are refused provision of certain goods and/or services. The marriage equality bakery case in Belfast is being appealed now. | |||
"M The only reason we got marriage equality laws was because of the Liberal Democrats when they were in coalition." It was nothing to do with the EU, that is for certain. Like most of the laws to which you refer, we have them because we are in general an advanced and liberal (with a small "l") society. | |||
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"M The only reason we got marriage equality laws was because of the Liberal Democrats when they were in coalition. It was nothing to do with the EU, that is for certain. Like most of the laws to which you refer, we have them because we are in general an advanced and liberal (with a small "l") society. " The first 4 cases mentioned are a direct result of the ECHR. | |||
"M The only reason we got marriage equality laws was because of the Liberal Democrats when they were in coalition. It was nothing to do with the EU, that is for certain. Like most of the laws to which you refer, we have them because we are in general an advanced and liberal (with a small "l") society. The first 4 cases mentioned are a direct result of the ECHR. " . That's got nothing to do with the EU | |||
"M The only reason we got marriage equality laws was because of the Liberal Democrats when they were in coalition. It was nothing to do with the EU, that is for certain. Like most of the laws to which you refer, we have them because we are in general an advanced and liberal (with a small "l") society. The first 4 cases mentioned are a direct result of the ECHR. . That's got nothing to do with the EU" Is there not a plan to withdraw from the ECHR if we leave the EU? | |||
"I had an mgbgt once had to scrap it" I sold mine, playing with the midget was more fun  | |||
"M The only reason we got marriage equality laws was because of the Liberal Democrats when they were in coalition. It was nothing to do with the EU, that is for certain. Like most of the laws to which you refer, we have them because we are in general an advanced and liberal (with a small "l") society. The first 4 cases mentioned are a direct result of the ECHR. . That's got nothing to do with the EU Is there not a plan to withdraw from the ECHR if we leave the EU? " . Not that I've heard | |||
"This is one area, workers rights another that i have more faith in with the people in Brussels than in Westminster.. whilst i would like to think that these rights will be protected, with some on the far right of the Tory party i am far from confident... I was genuinely interested... Which laws have the EU brought in that protects you" Loads. Plus lots of EU wide ones which will make it harder for future UK governments to dismantle where we were ahead of the game. FOr example with discrimination against women who had time off post pregnancy(previuosly UK firms were able to sack women with impunity for this because they 'would also have sacked a male member of staff who was off for such a long period of time'). I'm currently reading this. EVERYONE else should as well. https://www.tuc.org.uk/sites/default/files/UK%20employment%20rights%20and%20the%20EU.pdf | |||
"M The only reason we got marriage equality laws was because of the Liberal Democrats when they were in coalition. It was nothing to do with the EU, that is for certain. Like most of the laws to which you refer, we have them because we are in general an advanced and liberal (with a small "l") society. The first 4 cases mentioned are a direct result of the ECHR. . That's got nothing to do with the EU Is there not a plan to withdraw from the ECHR if we leave the EU? . Not that I've heard" Michael Gove being asked to draft plans for a British Bill of Rights if we are to leave must just be coincidence. | |||
"M The only reason we got marriage equality laws was because of the Liberal Democrats when they were in coalition. It was nothing to do with the EU, that is for certain. Like most of the laws to which you refer, we have them because we are in general an advanced and liberal (with a small "l") society. The first 4 cases mentioned are a direct result of the ECHR. . That's got nothing to do with the EU Is there not a plan to withdraw from the ECHR if we leave the EU? . Not that I've heard Michael Gove being asked to draft plans for a British Bill of Rights if we are to leave must just be coincidence. " . Well then it would just be replaced with a court in the UK that did exactly the same as the ECHR did.... British judicial process is like the up amongst the very highest in the world. | |||
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"This is one area, workers rights another that i have more faith in with the people in Brussels than in Westminster.. whilst i would like to think that these rights will be protected, with some on the far right of the Tory party i am far from confident... I was genuinely interested... Which laws have the EU brought in that protects you" surely you mean protect 'us'? | |||
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"Why are you talking about the Tories as if there is no other political party in this country?" its a very fair point the new labour lot were less than a fag papers width from some of the Tories.. | |||
"This is one area, workers rights another that i have more faith in with the people in Brussels than in Westminster.. whilst i would like to think that these rights will be protected, with some on the far right of the Tory party i am far from confident... I was genuinely interested... Which laws have the EU brought in that protects you Loads. Plus lots of EU wide ones which will make it harder for future UK governments to dismantle where we were ahead of the game. FOr example with discrimination against women who had time off post pregnancy(previuosly UK firms were able to sack women with impunity for this because they 'would also have sacked a male member of staff who was off for such a long period of time'). I'm currently reading this. EVERYONE else should as well. https://www.tuc.org.uk/sites/default/files/UK%20employment%20rights%20and%20the%20EU.pdf" . How much time off are we talking about?. And which specific EU law is it... Just so I can look it up and read it for myself. | |||
"This is one area, workers rights another that i have more faith in with the people in Brussels than in Westminster.. whilst i would like to think that these rights will be protected, with some on the far right of the Tory party i am far from confident... I was genuinely interested... Which laws have the EU brought in that protects you Loads. Plus lots of EU wide ones which will make it harder for future UK governments to dismantle where we were ahead of the game. FOr example with discrimination against women who had time off post pregnancy(previuosly UK firms were able to sack women with impunity for this because they 'would also have sacked a male member of staff who was off for such a long period of time'). I'm currently reading this. EVERYONE else should as well. https://www.tuc.org.uk/sites/default/files/UK%20employment%20rights%20and%20the%20EU.pdf. How much time off are we talking about?. And which specific EU law is it... Just so I can look it up and read it for myself." The UK already had 14 weeks prior to joining. I'm on page 6 at the minute. The case refers to one brought against the UK Government. 2 Equal Opportunities Commission v Secretary of State for Trade and Industry [2007] IRLR 327 Not had a chance to go through it yet. | |||
"This is one area, workers rights another that i have more faith in with the people in Brussels than in Westminster.. whilst i would like to think that these rights will be protected, with some on the far right of the Tory party i am far from confident... I was genuinely interested... Which laws have the EU brought in that protects you Loads. Plus lots of EU wide ones which will make it harder for future UK governments to dismantle where we were ahead of the game. FOr example with discrimination against women who had time off post pregnancy(previuosly UK firms were able to sack women with impunity for this because they 'would also have sacked a male member of staff who was off for such a long period of time'). I'm currently reading this. EVERYONE else should as well. https://www.tuc.org.uk/sites/default/files/UK%20employment%20rights%20and%20the%20EU.pdf. How much time off are we talking about?. And which specific EU law is it... Just so I can look it up and read it for myself. The UK already had 14 weeks prior to joining. I'm on page 6 at the minute. The case refers to one brought against the UK Government. 2 Equal Opportunities Commission v Secretary of State for Trade and Industry [2007] IRLR 327 Not had a chance to go through it yet." . Isn't the equal opportunities commission a UK body? | |||
"This is one area, workers rights another that i have more faith in with the people in Brussels than in Westminster.. whilst i would like to think that these rights will be protected, with some on the far right of the Tory party i am far from confident... I was genuinely interested... Which laws have the EU brought in that protects you Loads. Plus lots of EU wide ones which will make it harder for future UK governments to dismantle where we were ahead of the game. FOr example with discrimination against women who had time off post pregnancy(previuosly UK firms were able to sack women with impunity for this because they 'would also have sacked a male member of staff who was off for such a long period of time'). I'm currently reading this. EVERYONE else should as well. https://www.tuc.org.uk/sites/default/files/UK%20employment%20rights%20and%20the%20EU.pdf. How much time off are we talking about?. And which specific EU law is it... Just so I can look it up and read it for myself. The UK already had 14 weeks prior to joining. I'm on page 6 at the minute. The case refers to one brought against the UK Government. 2 Equal Opportunities Commission v Secretary of State for Trade and Industry [2007] IRLR 327 Not had a chance to go through it yet.. Isn't the equal opportunities commission a UK body?" Aye. But they were successful because they used case law from the European Court of Justice. | |||
"LGBT+ brethren and our allies, being a part of the EU has played an important role in our struggle for equality. While the European Court of Human Rights is not an EU institution, being in the EU means we adhere to their jurisdiction. Being part of the EU, and thusly within the framework on the Convention on Human Rights, we have been able to achieve the following milestones: - Decriminalisation of homosexuality in Northern Ireland - Removing the ban on LGBT serving in the military - The equalisation of the age of consent - The Gender Recognition Act The UK government has had to change UK law to account for some EU directives including: - Protecting transgender workers from unfair dismissal - Equal treatment for LGBT workers - Equal marital benefits for civil partners The Tories make no secret that they want to withdraw from the ECHR. We don’t know if a British Bill of Rights will offer us the same protections. The only reason we got marriage equality laws was because of the Liberal Democrats when they were in coalition. The Tories and UKIP talk about removing burdensome regulations that they see as being nothing more than ‘red tape’. Are LGBT rights nothing more than ‘red tape’ to the right wing? Are LGBT rights a rallying call to the right wing when they talk of the excesses of the European Court? We’ve come a long way in recent years. I'd hate to see us going backwards! " What bollocks. Talk about spin. Correlation is not causation. We happened to be in the EU when lots of social attitudes have changed. To presume we wouldn't have changed without the EU pushing us it both unprovable and unlikely. If you think the "right wing" are the only ones who remove rights then pick up a history book for a change. | |||
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"This is one area, workers rights another that i have more faith in with the people in Brussels than in Westminster.. whilst i would like to think that these rights will be protected, with some on the far right of the Tory party i am far from confident... I was genuinely interested... Which laws have the EU brought in that protects you Loads. Plus lots of EU wide ones which will make it harder for future UK governments to dismantle where we were ahead of the game. FOr example with discrimination against women who had time off post pregnancy(previuosly UK firms were able to sack women with impunity for this because they 'would also have sacked a male member of staff who was off for such a long period of time'). I'm currently reading this. EVERYONE else should as well. https://www.tuc.org.uk/sites/default/files/UK%20employment%20rights%20and%20the%20EU.pdf. How much time off are we talking about?. And which specific EU law is it... Just so I can look it up and read it for myself. The UK already had 14 weeks prior to joining. I'm on page 6 at the minute. The case refers to one brought against the UK Government. 2 Equal Opportunities Commission v Secretary of State for Trade and Industry [2007] IRLR 327 Not had a chance to go through it yet.. Isn't the equal opportunities commission a UK body? Aye. But they were successful because they used case law from the European Court of Justice." . Is the European court of justice a part of the EU? | |||
"Cameron and others personally voted against lgbt equality law measures. The EU has been great for us and it's feasible that rights are taken away, with the tyranny of the masses effect. The conservatives stoked anger against gay people with the early AIDS movement and have intolerant old school blood within. I rather like our equality laws and don't see need for costly scrapping and another British bill etc. It's clear that people have positive protection via Europe and we should stay." And yet, according to labour's Ken Livingstone, the Tories are "riddled with homosexuals". I guess they hate themselve? | |||
"This is one area, workers rights another that i have more faith in with the people in Brussels than in Westminster.. whilst i would like to think that these rights will be protected, with some on the far right of the Tory party i am far from confident... I was genuinely interested... Which laws have the EU brought in that protects you Loads. Plus lots of EU wide ones which will make it harder for future UK governments to dismantle where we were ahead of the game. FOr example with discrimination against women who had time off post pregnancy(previuosly UK firms were able to sack women with impunity for this because they 'would also have sacked a male member of staff who was off for such a long period of time'). I'm currently reading this. EVERYONE else should as well. https://www.tuc.org.uk/sites/default/files/UK%20employment%20rights%20and%20the%20EU.pdf. How much time off are we talking about?. And which specific EU law is it... Just so I can look it up and read it for myself. The UK already had 14 weeks prior to joining. I'm on page 6 at the minute. The case refers to one brought against the UK Government. 2 Equal Opportunities Commission v Secretary of State for Trade and Industry [2007] IRLR 327 Not had a chance to go through it yet.. Isn't the equal opportunities commission a UK body? Aye. But they were successful because they used case law from the European Court of Justice.. Is the European court of justice a part of the EU?" Yes it is | |||
"Cameron and others personally voted against lgbt equality law measures. The EU has been great for us and it's feasible that rights are taken away, with the tyranny of the masses effect. The conservatives stoked anger against gay people with the early AIDS movement and have intolerant old school blood within. I rather like our equality laws and don't see need for costly scrapping and another British bill etc. It's clear that people have positive protection via Europe and we should stay. And yet, according to labour's Ken Livingstone, the Tories are "riddled with homosexuals". I guess they hate themselve? " There's lots of examples of self loathing gays. The 'pray away the gay' movement in the US is a prime example. If I went looking I'm sure I could find MPs who voted for Section 28 but were gay/bi themselves. | |||
"Cameron and others personally voted against lgbt equality law measures. The EU has been great for us and it's feasible that rights are taken away, with the tyranny of the masses effect. The conservatives stoked anger against gay people with the early AIDS movement and have intolerant old school blood within. I rather like our equality laws and don't see need for costly scrapping and another British bill etc. It's clear that people have positive protection via Europe and we should stay. And yet, according to labour's Ken Livingstone, the Tories are "riddled with homosexuals". I guess they hate themselve? There's lots of examples of self loathing gays. The 'pray away the gay' movement in the US is a prime example. If I went looking I'm sure I could find MPs who voted for Section 28 but were gay/bi themselves." Right so we're back to 'Labour good, Tories bad' and let's turn a blind eye to the obvious prejudice behind that statement. | |||
"Cameron and others personally voted against lgbt equality law measures. The EU has been great for us and it's feasible that rights are taken away, with the tyranny of the masses effect. The conservatives stoked anger against gay people with the early AIDS movement and have intolerant old school blood within. I rather like our equality laws and don't see need for costly scrapping and another British bill etc. It's clear that people have positive protection via Europe and we should stay. And yet, according to labour's Ken Livingstone, the Tories are "riddled with homosexuals". I guess they hate themselve? There's lots of examples of self loathing gays. The 'pray away the gay' movement in the US is a prime example. If I went looking I'm sure I could find MPs who voted for Section 28 but were gay/bi themselves. Right so we're back to 'Labour good, Tories bad' and let's turn a blind eye to the obvious prejudice behind that statement. " In terms of LGBT rights? Yes. When marriage equality came up for a vote Cameron and Clegg had to rely on Labour to get it passed because half the Tories voted against it. | |||
"Cameron and others personally voted against lgbt equality law measures. The EU has been great for us and it's feasible that rights are taken away, with the tyranny of the masses effect. The conservatives stoked anger against gay people with the early AIDS movement and have intolerant old school blood within. I rather like our equality laws and don't see need for costly scrapping and another British bill etc. It's clear that people have positive protection via Europe and we should stay. And yet, according to labour's Ken Livingstone, the Tories are "riddled with homosexuals". I guess they hate themselve? There's lots of examples of self loathing gays. The 'pray away the gay' movement in the US is a prime example. If I went looking I'm sure I could find MPs who voted for Section 28 but were gay/bi themselves. Right so we're back to 'Labour good, Tories bad' and let's turn a blind eye to the obvious prejudice behind that statement. In terms of LGBT rights? Yes. When marriage equality came up for a vote Cameron and Clegg had to rely on Labour to get it passed because half the Tories voted against it. " Name one thing that it's 'Tories good, Labour bad' then? | |||
"Cameron and others personally voted against lgbt equality law measures. The EU has been great for us and it's feasible that rights are taken away, with the tyranny of the masses effect. The conservatives stoked anger against gay people with the early AIDS movement and have intolerant old school blood within. I rather like our equality laws and don't see need for costly scrapping and another British bill etc. It's clear that people have positive protection via Europe and we should stay. And yet, according to labour's Ken Livingstone, the Tories are "riddled with homosexuals". I guess they hate themselve? There's lots of examples of self loathing gays. The 'pray away the gay' movement in the US is a prime example. If I went looking I'm sure I could find MPs who voted for Section 28 but were gay/bi themselves. Right so we're back to 'Labour good, Tories bad' and let's turn a blind eye to the obvious prejudice behind that statement. In terms of LGBT rights? Yes. When marriage equality came up for a vote Cameron and Clegg had to rely on Labour to get it passed because half the Tories voted against it. Name one thing that it's 'Tories good, Labour bad' then? " I can't off the top of my head. 
I'll have to get back to you on that after I think long and hard. | |||
"Cameron and others personally voted against lgbt equality law measures. The EU has been great for us and it's feasible that rights are taken away, with the tyranny of the masses effect. The conservatives stoked anger against gay people with the early AIDS movement and have intolerant old school blood within. I rather like our equality laws and don't see need for costly scrapping and another British bill etc. It's clear that people have positive protection via Europe and we should stay. And yet, according to labour's Ken Livingstone, the Tories are "riddled with homosexuals". I guess they hate themselve? There's lots of examples of self loathing gays. The 'pray away the gay' movement in the US is a prime example. If I went looking I'm sure I could find MPs who voted for Section 28 but were gay/bi themselves. Right so we're back to 'Labour good, Tories bad' and let's turn a blind eye to the obvious prejudice behind that statement. In terms of LGBT rights? Yes. When marriage equality came up for a vote Cameron and Clegg had to rely on Labour to get it passed because half the Tories voted against it. Name one thing that it's 'Tories good, Labour bad' then? I can't off the top of my head.
I'll have to get back to you on that after I think long and hard. "Thanks, just wanted to show that you're a blind idealogue. | |||
"Cameron and others personally voted against lgbt equality law measures. The EU has been great for us and it's feasible that rights are taken away, with the tyranny of the masses effect. The conservatives stoked anger against gay people with the early AIDS movement and have intolerant old school blood within. I rather like our equality laws and don't see need for costly scrapping and another British bill etc. It's clear that people have positive protection via Europe and we should stay. And yet, according to labour's Ken Livingstone, the Tories are "riddled with homosexuals". I guess they hate themselve? There's lots of examples of self loathing gays. The 'pray away the gay' movement in the US is a prime example. If I went looking I'm sure I could find MPs who voted for Section 28 but were gay/bi themselves. Right so we're back to 'Labour good, Tories bad' and let's turn a blind eye to the obvious prejudice behind that statement. In terms of LGBT rights? Yes. When marriage equality came up for a vote Cameron and Clegg had to rely on Labour to get it passed because half the Tories voted against it. Name one thing that it's 'Tories good, Labour bad' then? I can't off the top of my head.
I'll have to get back to you on that after I think long and hard.
Thanks, just wanted to show that you're a blind idealogue. "I think you're showing your own ideology. | |||
"Cameron and others personally voted against lgbt equality law measures. The EU has been great for us and it's feasible that rights are taken away, with the tyranny of the masses effect. The conservatives stoked anger against gay people with the early AIDS movement and have intolerant old school blood within. I rather like our equality laws and don't see need for costly scrapping and another British bill etc. It's clear that people have positive protection via Europe and we should stay. And yet, according to labour's Ken Livingstone, the Tories are "riddled with homosexuals". I guess they hate themselve? There's lots of examples of self loathing gays. The 'pray away the gay' movement in the US is a prime example. If I went looking I'm sure I could find MPs who voted for Section 28 but were gay/bi themselves. Right so we're back to 'Labour good, Tories bad' and let's turn a blind eye to the obvious prejudice behind that statement. In terms of LGBT rights? Yes. When marriage equality came up for a vote Cameron and Clegg had to rely on Labour to get it passed because half the Tories voted against it. Name one thing that it's 'Tories good, Labour bad' then? I can't off the top of my head.
I'll have to get back to you on that after I think long and hard.
Thanks, just wanted to show that you're a blind idealogue.
I think you're showing your own ideology. "Ideology is obsolete in post-cold war politics. There are good and bad points in Tories, Lib Dems, Labour, UKIP and Greens. I vote for the local MP who I judge best for the area irrespective of their party. | |||
"Cameron and others personally voted against lgbt equality law measures. The EU has been great for us and it's feasible that rights are taken away, with the tyranny of the masses effect. The conservatives stoked anger against gay people with the early AIDS movement and have intolerant old school blood within. I rather like our equality laws and don't see need for costly scrapping and another British bill etc. It's clear that people have positive protection via Europe and we should stay. And yet, according to labour's Ken Livingstone, the Tories are "riddled with homosexuals". I guess they hate themselve? There's lots of examples of self loathing gays. The 'pray away the gay' movement in the US is a prime example. If I went looking I'm sure I could find MPs who voted for Section 28 but were gay/bi themselves. Right so we're back to 'Labour good, Tories bad' and let's turn a blind eye to the obvious prejudice behind that statement. In terms of LGBT rights? Yes. When marriage equality came up for a vote Cameron and Clegg had to rely on Labour to get it passed because half the Tories voted against it. Name one thing that it's 'Tories good, Labour bad' then? I can't off the top of my head.
I'll have to get back to you on that after I think long and hard.
Thanks, just wanted to show that you're a blind idealogue.
I think you're showing your own ideology.
Ideology is obsolete in post-cold war politics. There are good and bad points in Tories, Lib Dems, Labour, UKIP and Greens. I vote for the local MP who I judge best for the area irrespective of their party."I didn't say there wasn't. I simply said I couldn't think of any off the top of my head for the Tories. | |||
"Cameron and others personally voted against lgbt equality law measures. The EU has been great for us and it's feasible that rights are taken away, with the tyranny of the masses effect. The conservatives stoked anger against gay people with the early AIDS movement and have intolerant old school blood within. I rather like our equality laws and don't see need for costly scrapping and another British bill etc. It's clear that people have positive protection via Europe and we should stay. And yet, according to labour's Ken Livingstone, the Tories are "riddled with homosexuals". I guess they hate themselve? There's lots of examples of self loathing gays. The 'pray away the gay' movement in the US is a prime example. If I went looking I'm sure I could find MPs who voted for Section 28 but were gay/bi themselves. Right so we're back to 'Labour good, Tories bad' and let's turn a blind eye to the obvious prejudice behind that statement. In terms of LGBT rights? Yes. When marriage equality came up for a vote Cameron and Clegg had to rely on Labour to get it passed because half the Tories voted against it. Name one thing that it's 'Tories good, Labour bad' then? I can't off the top of my head.
I'll have to get back to you on that after I think long and hard.
Thanks, just wanted to show that you're a blind idealogue.
I think you're showing your own ideology.
Ideology is obsolete in post-cold war politics. There are good and bad points in Tories, Lib Dems, Labour, UKIP and Greens. I vote for the local MP who I judge best for the area irrespective of their party.
I didn't say there wasn't. I simply said I couldn't think of any off the top of my head for the Tories. "We had lgbt rights and empolyment protection long before anything introduced by the EU. We are quite good at that sort of thing. | |||
"Cameron and others personally voted against lgbt equality law measures. The EU has been great for us and it's feasible that rights are taken away, with the tyranny of the masses effect. The conservatives stoked anger against gay people with the early AIDS movement and have intolerant old school blood within. I rather like our equality laws and don't see need for costly scrapping and another British bill etc. It's clear that people have positive protection via Europe and we should stay. And yet, according to labour's Ken Livingstone, the Tories are "riddled with homosexuals". I guess they hate themselve? There's lots of examples of self loathing gays. The 'pray away the gay' movement in the US is a prime example. If I went looking I'm sure I could find MPs who voted for Section 28 but were gay/bi themselves. Right so we're back to 'Labour good, Tories bad' and let's turn a blind eye to the obvious prejudice behind that statement. In terms of LGBT rights? Yes. When marriage equality came up for a vote Cameron and Clegg had to rely on Labour to get it passed because half the Tories voted against it. Name one thing that it's 'Tories good, Labour bad' then? I can't off the top of my head.
I'll have to get back to you on that after I think long and hard.
Thanks, just wanted to show that you're a blind idealogue.
I think you're showing your own ideology.
Ideology is obsolete in post-cold war politics. There are good and bad points in Tories, Lib Dems, Labour, UKIP and Greens. I vote for the local MP who I judge best for the area irrespective of their party.
I didn't say there wasn't. I simply said I couldn't think of any off the top of my head for the Tories.
We had lgbt rights and empolyment protection long before anything introduced by the EU.
We are quite good at that sort of thing."It's a wonder things had to be taken to the ECtHR then. | |||
"LGBT+ brethren and our allies, being a part of the EU has played an important role in our struggle for equality. While the European Court of Human Rights is not an EU institution, being in the EU means we adhere to their jurisdiction. Being part of the EU, and thusly within the framework on the Convention on Human Rights, we have been able to achieve the following milestones: - Decriminalisation of homosexuality in Northern Ireland - Removing the ban on LGBT serving in the military - The equalisation of the age of consent - The Gender Recognition Act The UK government has had to change UK law to account for some EU directives including: - Protecting transgender workers from unfair dismissal - Equal treatment for LGBT workers - Equal marital benefits for civil partners The Tories make no secret that they want to withdraw from the ECHR. We don’t know if a British Bill of Rights will offer us the same protections. The only reason we got marriage equality laws was because of the Liberal Democrats when they were in coalition. The Tories and UKIP talk about removing burdensome regulations that they see as being nothing more than ‘red tape’. Are LGBT rights nothing more than ‘red tape’ to the right wing? Are LGBT rights a rallying call to the right wing when they talk of the excesses of the European Court? We’ve come a long way in recent years. I'd hate to see us going backwards! "  | |||
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"Cameron and others personally voted against lgbt equality law measures. The EU has been great for us and it's feasible that rights are taken away, with the tyranny of the masses effect. The conservatives stoked anger against gay people with the early AIDS movement and have intolerant old school blood within. I rather like our equality laws and don't see need for costly scrapping and another British bill etc. It's clear that people have positive protection via Europe and we should stay. And yet, according to labour's Ken Livingstone, the Tories are "riddled with homosexuals". I guess they hate themselve? There's lots of examples of self loathing gays. The 'pray away the gay' movement in the US is a prime example. If I went looking I'm sure I could find MPs who voted for Section 28 but were gay/bi themselves. Right so we're back to 'Labour good, Tories bad' and let's turn a blind eye to the obvious prejudice behind that statement. In terms of LGBT rights? Yes. When marriage equality came up for a vote Cameron and Clegg had to rely on Labour to get it passed because half the Tories voted against it. Name one thing that it's 'Tories good, Labour bad' then? I can't off the top of my head.
I'll have to get back to you on that after I think long and hard.
Thanks, just wanted to show that you're a blind idealogue.
I think you're showing your own ideology.
Ideology is obsolete in post-cold war politics. There are good and bad points in Tories, Lib Dems, Labour, UKIP and Greens. I vote for the local MP who I judge best for the area irrespective of their party.
I didn't say there wasn't. I simply said I couldn't think of any off the top of my head for the Tories.
We had lgbt rights and empolyment protection long before anything introduced by the EU.
We are quite good at that sort of thing.
It's a wonder things had to be taken to the ECtHR then. "Quote the case law. | |||
"This is one area, workers rights another that i have more faith in with the people in Brussels than in Westminster.. whilst i would like to think that these rights will be protected, with some on the far right of the Tory party i am far from confident... I was genuinely interested... Which laws have the EU brought in that protects you Loads. Plus lots of EU wide ones which will make it harder for future UK governments to dismantle where we were ahead of the game. FOr example with discrimination against women who had time off post pregnancy(previuosly UK firms were able to sack women with impunity for this because they 'would also have sacked a male member of staff who was off for such a long period of time'). I'm currently reading this. EVERYONE else should as well. https://www.tuc.org.uk/sites/default/files/UK%20employment%20rights%20and%20the%20EU.pdf. How much time off are we talking about?. And which specific EU law is it... Just so I can look it up and read it for myself. The UK already had 14 weeks prior to joining. I'm on page 6 at the minute. The case refers to one brought against the UK Government. 2 Equal Opportunities Commission v Secretary of State for Trade and Industry [2007] IRLR 327 Not had a chance to go through it yet.. Isn't the equal opportunities commission a UK body? Aye. But they were successful because they used case law from the European Court of Justice.. Is the European court of justice a part of the EU?" No(from what I've read). But all member states have to accept it to be part of the EU. Ergo if we hadn't bee n in, the government would have been able to discriminate against the new mother. | |||
"Cameron and others personally voted against lgbt equality law measures. The EU has been great for us and it's feasible that rights are taken away, with the tyranny of the masses effect. The conservatives stoked anger against gay people with the early AIDS movement and have intolerant old school blood within. I rather like our equality laws and don't see need for costly scrapping and another British bill etc. It's clear that people have positive protection via Europe and we should stay. And yet, according to labour's Ken Livingstone, the Tories are "riddled with homosexuals". I guess they hate themselve? There's lots of examples of self loathing gays. The 'pray away the gay' movement in the US is a prime example. If I went looking I'm sure I could find MPs who voted for Section 28 but were gay/bi themselves. Right so we're back to 'Labour good, Tories bad' and let's turn a blind eye to the obvious prejudice behind that statement. " Only my opinion, but I think he was attacking the inherent(as he sees it)hypocrisy within the Tory ranks. Ken's problem is he lets his emotions get away from him and what he says is easily misinterpreted. Probably goes both ways, admittedly. | |||
| |||
"Cameron and others personally voted against lgbt equality law measures. The EU has been great for us and it's feasible that rights are taken away, with the tyranny of the masses effect. The conservatives stoked anger against gay people with the early AIDS movement and have intolerant old school blood within. I rather like our equality laws and don't see need for costly scrapping and another British bill etc. It's clear that people have positive protection via Europe and we should stay. And yet, according to labour's Ken Livingstone, the Tories are "riddled with homosexuals". I guess they hate themselve? There's lots of examples of self loathing gays. The 'pray away the gay' movement in the US is a prime example. If I went looking I'm sure I could find MPs who voted for Section 28 but were gay/bi themselves. Right so we're back to 'Labour good, Tories bad' and let's turn a blind eye to the obvious prejudice behind that statement. Only my opinion, but I think he was attacking the inherent(as he sees it)hypocrisy within the Tory ranks. Ken's problem is he lets his emotions get away from him and what he says is easily misinterpreted. Probably goes both ways, admittedly." Funny how often he gets misinterpreted though. Misinterpreted on homosexuals, misinterpreted on mental health issues, misinterpreted on anti-semitism, misinterpreted when he stood by his anti-semitic comments. You wouldn't believe public speaking and communication are the core of this guy's job!!! | |||
"LGBT rights won't go anywhere! As a society we are the most accepting when it comes to race, religion, gender and Sexual orientation.. and I am proud of that. The EU may have brought in some "rights" but WE as a society implemented them accepted them and even embraced them.... as someone who is on the continent ALOT trust me, other EU nations do not accept these "rights" and make no secret to show you!! LGBT rights are not going anywhere even with an out vote!! " Here here! The LGBT community owes as much to the EU as Mrs Thatcher did to feminism - a big dose of fuck all. | |||
"Cameron and others personally voted against lgbt equality law measures. The EU has been great for us and it's feasible that rights are taken away, with the tyranny of the masses effect. The conservatives stoked anger against gay people with the early AIDS movement and have intolerant old school blood within. I rather like our equality laws and don't see need for costly scrapping and another British bill etc. It's clear that people have positive protection via Europe and we should stay. And yet, according to labour's Ken Livingstone, the Tories are "riddled with homosexuals". I guess they hate themselve? There's lots of examples of self loathing gays. The 'pray away the gay' movement in the US is a prime example. If I went looking I'm sure I could find MPs who voted for Section 28 but were gay/bi themselves. Right so we're back to 'Labour good, Tories bad' and let's turn a blind eye to the obvious prejudice behind that statement. Only my opinion, but I think he was attacking the inherent(as he sees it)hypocrisy within the Tory ranks. Ken's problem is he lets his emotions get away from him and what he says is easily misinterpreted. Probably goes both ways, admittedly. Funny how often he gets misinterpreted though. Misinterpreted on homosexuals, misinterpreted on mental health issues, misinterpreted on anti-semitism, misinterpreted when he stood by his anti-semitic comments. You wouldn't believe public speaking and communication are the core of this guy's job!!! " Shit..I ain't going there(again!)! | |||
| |||
"Cameron and others personally voted against lgbt equality law measures. The EU has been great for us and it's feasible that rights are taken away, with the tyranny of the masses effect. The conservatives stoked anger against gay people with the early AIDS movement and have intolerant old school blood within. I rather like our equality laws and don't see need for costly scrapping and another British bill etc. It's clear that people have positive protection via Europe and we should stay. And yet, according to labour's Ken Livingstone, the Tories are "riddled with homosexuals". I guess they hate themselve? There's lots of examples of self loathing gays. The 'pray away the gay' movement in the US is a prime example. If I went looking I'm sure I could find MPs who voted for Section 28 but were gay/bi themselves. Right so we're back to 'Labour good, Tories bad' and let's turn a blind eye to the obvious prejudice behind that statement. In terms of LGBT rights? Yes. When marriage equality came up for a vote Cameron and Clegg had to rely on Labour to get it passed because half the Tories voted against it. Name one thing that it's 'Tories good, Labour bad' then? I can't off the top of my head.
I'll have to get back to you on that after I think long and hard.
Thanks, just wanted to show that you're a blind idealogue.
I think you're showing your own ideology.
Ideology is obsolete in post-cold war politics. There are good and bad points in Tories, Lib Dems, Labour, UKIP and Greens. I vote for the local MP who I judge best for the area irrespective of their party.
I didn't say there wasn't. I simply said I couldn't think of any off the top of my head for the Tories.
We had lgbt rights and empolyment protection long before anything introduced by the EU.
We are quite good at that sort of thing.". I absolutely agree and it kinda annoys me when I hear people in this country slagging off a country that is one of the most open and liberal country's in world while at the same time claiming credit from the EU.... So again where's your rights protected in Slovakia, Lithuania, Hungary, Romania, Czech republic.... Go and live there and tell me how the EU is protecting your LBGT rights. Quite frankly it's bollocks, these rights as you put them are only brought about by the most forward and liberal society's and none of it had anything at all to do with the EU, laws are utterly meaningless, always have been, morality is cultural and takes years of evolutionary digression | |||
"Cameron and others personally voted against lgbt equality law measures. The EU has been great for us and it's feasible that rights are taken away, with the tyranny of the masses effect. The conservatives stoked anger against gay people with the early AIDS movement and have intolerant old school blood within. I rather like our equality laws and don't see need for costly scrapping and another British bill etc. It's clear that people have positive protection via Europe and we should stay. And yet, according to labour's Ken Livingstone, the Tories are "riddled with homosexuals". I guess they hate themselve? There's lots of examples of self loathing gays. The 'pray away the gay' movement in the US is a prime example. If I went looking I'm sure I could find MPs who voted for Section 28 but were gay/bi themselves. Right so we're back to 'Labour good, Tories bad' and let's turn a blind eye to the obvious prejudice behind that statement. In terms of LGBT rights? Yes. When marriage equality came up for a vote Cameron and Clegg had to rely on Labour to get it passed because half the Tories voted against it. Name one thing that it's 'Tories good, Labour bad' then? I can't off the top of my head.
I'll have to get back to you on that after I think long and hard.
Thanks, just wanted to show that you're a blind idealogue.
I think you're showing your own ideology.
Ideology is obsolete in post-cold war politics. There are good and bad points in Tories, Lib Dems, Labour, UKIP and Greens. I vote for the local MP who I judge best for the area irrespective of their party.
I didn't say there wasn't. I simply said I couldn't think of any off the top of my head for the Tories.
We had lgbt rights and empolyment protection long before anything introduced by the EU.
We are quite good at that sort of thing..
I absolutely agree and it kinda annoys me when I hear people in this country slagging off a country that is one of the most open and liberal country's in world while at the same time claiming credit from the EU.... So again where's your rights protected in Slovakia, Lithuania, Hungary, Romania, Czech republic.... Go and live there and tell me how the EU is protecting your LBGT rights.
Quite frankly it's bollocks, these rights as you put them are only brought about by the most forward and liberal society's and none of it had anything at all to do with the EU, laws are utterly meaningless, always have been, morality is cultural and takes years of evolutionary digression"There's no point debating with you when you don't even understand how the EctHR works. They do not do judicial review Europe-wide. They do so for the country in which the case before them originates. It is fact that the UK government has only changed the law to be equal/inclusive to LGBT people after the case has been found by the ECtHR to breach their human rights. That applies to the top 4 cases in my OP. Social mores didn't change the laws, the UK government didn't act on their own - they acted only when the ECtHR said they were wrong. That is indisputable fact. | |||
"Cameron and others personally voted against lgbt equality law measures. The EU has been great for us and it's feasible that rights are taken away, with the tyranny of the masses effect. The conservatives stoked anger against gay people with the early AIDS movement and have intolerant old school blood within. I rather like our equality laws and don't see need for costly scrapping and another British bill etc. It's clear that people have positive protection via Europe and we should stay. And yet, according to labour's Ken Livingstone, the Tories are "riddled with homosexuals". I guess they hate themselve? There's lots of examples of self loathing gays. The 'pray away the gay' movement in the US is a prime example. If I went looking I'm sure I could find MPs who voted for Section 28 but were gay/bi themselves. Right so we're back to 'Labour good, Tories bad' and let's turn a blind eye to the obvious prejudice behind that statement. In terms of LGBT rights? Yes. When marriage equality came up for a vote Cameron and Clegg had to rely on Labour to get it passed because half the Tories voted against it. Name one thing that it's 'Tories good, Labour bad' then? I can't off the top of my head.
I'll have to get back to you on that after I think long and hard.
Thanks, just wanted to show that you're a blind idealogue.
I think you're showing your own ideology.
Ideology is obsolete in post-cold war politics. There are good and bad points in Tories, Lib Dems, Labour, UKIP and Greens. I vote for the local MP who I judge best for the area irrespective of their party.
I didn't say there wasn't. I simply said I couldn't think of any off the top of my head for the Tories.
We had lgbt rights and empolyment protection long before anything introduced by the EU.
We are quite good at that sort of thing..
I absolutely agree and it kinda annoys me when I hear people in this country slagging off a country that is one of the most open and liberal country's in world while at the same time claiming credit from the EU.... So again where's your rights protected in Slovakia, Lithuania, Hungary, Romania, Czech republic.... Go and live there and tell me how the EU is protecting your LBGT rights.
Quite frankly it's bollocks, these rights as you put them are only brought about by the most forward and liberal society's and none of it had anything at all to do with the EU, laws are utterly meaningless, always have been, morality is cultural and takes years of evolutionary digression
There's no point debating with you when you don't even understand how the EctHR works.
They do not do judicial review Europe-wide. They do so for the country in which the case before them originates.
It is fact that the UK government has only changed the law to be equal/inclusive to LGBT people after the case has been found by the ECtHR
to breach their human rights. That applies to the top 4 cases in my OP.
Social mores didn't change the laws, the UK government didn't act on their own - they acted only when the ECtHR said they were wrong.
That is indisputable fact. ". Again laws don't make you feel included, cultural acceptance does, how many other countries have a better acceptance than the UK!. I would suggest that human movement suggests not many | |||
"Cameron and others personally voted against lgbt equality law measures. The EU has been great for us and it's feasible that rights are taken away, with the tyranny of the masses effect. The conservatives stoked anger against gay people with the early AIDS movement and have intolerant old school blood within. I rather like our equality laws and don't see need for costly scrapping and another British bill etc. It's clear that people have positive protection via Europe and we should stay. And yet, according to labour's Ken Livingstone, the Tories are "riddled with homosexuals". I guess they hate themselve? There's lots of examples of self loathing gays. The 'pray away the gay' movement in the US is a prime example. If I went looking I'm sure I could find MPs who voted for Section 28 but were gay/bi themselves. Right so we're back to 'Labour good, Tories bad' and let's turn a blind eye to the obvious prejudice behind that statement. In terms of LGBT rights? Yes. When marriage equality came up for a vote Cameron and Clegg had to rely on Labour to get it passed because half the Tories voted against it. Name one thing that it's 'Tories good, Labour bad' then? I can't off the top of my head.
I'll have to get back to you on that after I think long and hard.
Thanks, just wanted to show that you're a blind idealogue.
I think you're showing your own ideology.
Ideology is obsolete in post-cold war politics. There are good and bad points in Tories, Lib Dems, Labour, UKIP and Greens. I vote for the local MP who I judge best for the area irrespective of their party.
I didn't say there wasn't. I simply said I couldn't think of any off the top of my head for the Tories.
We had lgbt rights and empolyment protection long before anything introduced by the EU.
We are quite good at that sort of thing..
I absolutely agree and it kinda annoys me when I hear people in this country slagging off a country that is one of the most open and liberal country's in world while at the same time claiming credit from the EU.... So again where's your rights protected in Slovakia, Lithuania, Hungary, Romania, Czech republic.... Go and live there and tell me how the EU is protecting your LBGT rights.
Quite frankly it's bollocks, these rights as you put them are only brought about by the most forward and liberal society's and none of it had anything at all to do with the EU, laws are utterly meaningless, always have been, morality is cultural and takes years of evolutionary digression
There's no point debating with you when you don't even understand how the EctHR works.
They do not do judicial review Europe-wide. They do so for the country in which the case before them originates.
It is fact that the UK government has only changed the law to be equal/inclusive to LGBT people after the case has been found by the ECtHR
to breach their human rights. That applies to the top 4 cases in my OP.
Social mores didn't change the laws, the UK government didn't act on their own - they acted only when the ECtHR said they were wrong.
That is indisputable fact. .
Again laws don't make you feel included, cultural acceptance does, how many other countries have a better acceptance than the UK!.
I would suggest that human movement suggests not many"Laws give people undeniable rights and protection from being mistreated. Social acceptance does not. You clearly have no idea of the importance of having your rights enshrined in law. | |||
"Cameron and others personally voted against lgbt equality law measures. The EU has been great for us and it's feasible that rights are taken away, with the tyranny of the masses effect. The conservatives stoked anger against gay people with the early AIDS movement and have intolerant old school blood within. I rather like our equality laws and don't see need for costly scrapping and another British bill etc. It's clear that people have positive protection via Europe and we should stay. And yet, according to labour's Ken Livingstone, the Tories are "riddled with homosexuals". I guess they hate themselve? There's lots of examples of self loathing gays. The 'pray away the gay' movement in the US is a prime example. If I went looking I'm sure I could find MPs who voted for Section 28 but were gay/bi themselves. Right so we're back to 'Labour good, Tories bad' and let's turn a blind eye to the obvious prejudice behind that statement. In terms of LGBT rights? Yes. When marriage equality came up for a vote Cameron and Clegg had to rely on Labour to get it passed because half the Tories voted against it. Name one thing that it's 'Tories good, Labour bad' then? I can't off the top of my head.
I'll have to get back to you on that after I think long and hard.
Thanks, just wanted to show that you're a blind idealogue.
I think you're showing your own ideology.
Ideology is obsolete in post-cold war politics. There are good and bad points in Tories, Lib Dems, Labour, UKIP and Greens. I vote for the local MP who I judge best for the area irrespective of their party.
I didn't say there wasn't. I simply said I couldn't think of any off the top of my head for the Tories.
We had lgbt rights and empolyment protection long before anything introduced by the EU.
We are quite good at that sort of thing..
I absolutely agree and it kinda annoys me when I hear people in this country slagging off a country that is one of the most open and liberal country's in world while at the same time claiming credit from the EU.... So again where's your rights protected in Slovakia, Lithuania, Hungary, Romania, Czech republic.... Go and live there and tell me how the EU is protecting your LBGT rights.
Quite frankly it's bollocks, these rights as you put them are only brought about by the most forward and liberal society's and none of it had anything at all to do with the EU, laws are utterly meaningless, always have been, morality is cultural and takes years of evolutionary digression
There's no point debating with you when you don't even understand how the EctHR works.
They do not do judicial review Europe-wide. They do so for the country in which the case before them originates.
It is fact that the UK government has only changed the law to be equal/inclusive to LGBT people after the case has been found by the ECtHR
to breach their human rights. That applies to the top 4 cases in my OP.
Social mores didn't change the laws, the UK government didn't act on their own - they acted only when the ECtHR said they were wrong.
That is indisputable fact. .
Again laws don't make you feel included, cultural acceptance does, how many other countries have a better acceptance than the UK!.
I would suggest that human movement suggests not many
Laws give people undeniable rights and protection from being mistreated.
Social acceptance does not. You clearly have no idea of the importance of having your rights enshrined in law. ". Laws mean nothing, there utterly meaningless, Jewish people had the law on there side in 1934, they were exterminated on mass in 1942! | |||
"Cameron and others personally voted against lgbt equality law measures. The EU has been great for us and it's feasible that rights are taken away, with the tyranny of the masses effect. The conservatives stoked anger against gay people with the early AIDS movement and have intolerant old school blood within. I rather like our equality laws and don't see need for costly scrapping and another British bill etc. It's clear that people have positive protection via Europe and we should stay. And yet, according to labour's Ken Livingstone, the Tories are "riddled with homosexuals". I guess they hate themselve? There's lots of examples of self loathing gays. The 'pray away the gay' movement in the US is a prime example. If I went looking I'm sure I could find MPs who voted for Section 28 but were gay/bi themselves. Right so we're back to 'Labour good, Tories bad' and let's turn a blind eye to the obvious prejudice behind that statement. In terms of LGBT rights? Yes. When marriage equality came up for a vote Cameron and Clegg had to rely on Labour to get it passed because half the Tories voted against it. Name one thing that it's 'Tories good, Labour bad' then? I can't off the top of my head.
I'll have to get back to you on that after I think long and hard.
Thanks, just wanted to show that you're a blind idealogue.
I think you're showing your own ideology.
Ideology is obsolete in post-cold war politics. There are good and bad points in Tories, Lib Dems, Labour, UKIP and Greens. I vote for the local MP who I judge best for the area irrespective of their party.
I didn't say there wasn't. I simply said I couldn't think of any off the top of my head for the Tories.
We had lgbt rights and empolyment protection long before anything introduced by the EU.
We are quite good at that sort of thing..
I absolutely agree and it kinda annoys me when I hear people in this country slagging off a country that is one of the most open and liberal country's in world while at the same time claiming credit from the EU.... So again where's your rights protected in Slovakia, Lithuania, Hungary, Romania, Czech republic.... Go and live there and tell me how the EU is protecting your LBGT rights.
Quite frankly it's bollocks, these rights as you put them are only brought about by the most forward and liberal society's and none of it had anything at all to do with the EU, laws are utterly meaningless, always have been, morality is cultural and takes years of evolutionary digression
There's no point debating with you when you don't even understand how the EctHR works.
They do not do judicial review Europe-wide. They do so for the country in which the case before them originates.
It is fact that the UK government has only changed the law to be equal/inclusive to LGBT people after the case has been found by the ECtHR
to breach their human rights. That applies to the top 4 cases in my OP.
Social mores didn't change the laws, the UK government didn't act on their own - they acted only when the ECtHR said they were wrong.
That is indisputable fact. .
Again laws don't make you feel included, cultural acceptance does, how many other countries have a better acceptance than the UK!.
I would suggest that human movement suggests not many
Laws give people undeniable rights and protection from being mistreated.
Social acceptance does not. You clearly have no idea of the importance of having your rights enshrined in law. .
Laws mean nothing, there utterly meaningless, Jewish people had the law on there side in 1934, they were exterminated on mass in 1942!"And in the cases in my OP laws meant everything!!!! They meant everything because they gave LGBT people rights that they didn't have until that point. Social acceptance didn't give them those rights, only the law did. By your logic we'd have no need to make any laws. Clearly you just don't understand; the workings of the court and the need for laws. | |||
"Cameron and others personally voted against lgbt equality law measures. The EU has been great for us and it's feasible that rights are taken away, with the tyranny of the masses effect. The conservatives stoked anger against gay people with the early AIDS movement and have intolerant old school blood within. I rather like our equality laws and don't see need for costly scrapping and another British bill etc. It's clear that people have positive protection via Europe and we should stay. And yet, according to labour's Ken Livingstone, the Tories are "riddled with homosexuals". I guess they hate themselve? There's lots of examples of self loathing gays. The 'pray away the gay' movement in the US is a prime example. If I went looking I'm sure I could find MPs who voted for Section 28 but were gay/bi themselves. Right so we're back to 'Labour good, Tories bad' and let's turn a blind eye to the obvious prejudice behind that statement. In terms of LGBT rights? Yes. When marriage equality came up for a vote Cameron and Clegg had to rely on Labour to get it passed because half the Tories voted against it. Name one thing that it's 'Tories good, Labour bad' then? I can't off the top of my head.
I'll have to get back to you on that after I think long and hard.
Thanks, just wanted to show that you're a blind idealogue.
I think you're showing your own ideology.
Ideology is obsolete in post-cold war politics. There are good and bad points in Tories, Lib Dems, Labour, UKIP and Greens. I vote for the local MP who I judge best for the area irrespective of their party.
I didn't say there wasn't. I simply said I couldn't think of any off the top of my head for the Tories.
We had lgbt rights and empolyment protection long before anything introduced by the EU.
We are quite good at that sort of thing..
I absolutely agree and it kinda annoys me when I hear people in this country slagging off a country that is one of the most open and liberal country's in world while at the same time claiming credit from the EU.... So again where's your rights protected in Slovakia, Lithuania, Hungary, Romania, Czech republic.... Go and live there and tell me how the EU is protecting your LBGT rights.
Quite frankly it's bollocks, these rights as you put them are only brought about by the most forward and liberal society's and none of it had anything at all to do with the EU, laws are utterly meaningless, always have been, morality is cultural and takes years of evolutionary digression
There's no point debating with you when you don't even understand how the EctHR works.
They do not do judicial review Europe-wide. They do so for the country in which the case before them originates.
It is fact that the UK government has only changed the law to be equal/inclusive to LGBT people after the case has been found by the ECtHR
to breach their human rights. That applies to the top 4 cases in my OP.
Social mores didn't change the laws, the UK government didn't act on their own - they acted only when the ECtHR said they were wrong.
That is indisputable fact. .
Again laws don't make you feel included, cultural acceptance does, how many other countries have a better acceptance than the UK!.
I would suggest that human movement suggests not many
Laws give people undeniable rights and protection from being mistreated.
Social acceptance does not. You clearly have no idea of the importance of having your rights enshrined in law. .
Laws mean nothing, there utterly meaningless, Jewish people had the law on there side in 1934, they were exterminated on mass in 1942!
And in the cases in my OP laws meant everything!!!!
They meant everything because they gave LGBT people rights that they didn't have until that point.
Social acceptance didn't give them those rights, only the law did.
By your logic we'd have no need to make any laws.
Clearly you just don't understand; the workings of the court and the need for laws. ". That's right, 90% of everybody in this country don't need laws, I don't need a law to tell me it's bad to commit murder I don't need a law to tell me I shouldn't fiddle with kids I don't need a law to tell me i shouldn't discriminate on gender or race....I don't need any of those things personally.... Now a society is different, were made up of the many and some people just aren't going to accept you, get over it, no law will change that!. What your actually talking about is remuneration for being not accepted!. Cultural paradigm shifts come after decades of social interaction...... Not from somebody passing a law | |||
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"Cameron and others personally voted against lgbt equality law measures. The EU has been great for us and it's feasible that rights are taken away, with the tyranny of the masses effect. The conservatives stoked anger against gay people with the early AIDS movement and have intolerant old school blood within. I rather like our equality laws and don't see need for costly scrapping and another British bill etc. It's clear that people have positive protection via Europe and we should stay. And yet, according to labour's Ken Livingstone, the Tories are "riddled with homosexuals". I guess they hate themselve? There's lots of examples of self loathing gays. The 'pray away the gay' movement in the US is a prime example. If I went looking I'm sure I could find MPs who voted for Section 28 but were gay/bi themselves. Right so we're back to 'Labour good, Tories bad' and let's turn a blind eye to the obvious prejudice behind that statement. In terms of LGBT rights? Yes. When marriage equality came up for a vote Cameron and Clegg had to rely on Labour to get it passed because half the Tories voted against it. Name one thing that it's 'Tories good, Labour bad' then? I can't off the top of my head.
I'll have to get back to you on that after I think long and hard.
Thanks, just wanted to show that you're a blind idealogue.
I think you're showing your own ideology.
Ideology is obsolete in post-cold war politics. There are good and bad points in Tories, Lib Dems, Labour, UKIP and Greens. I vote for the local MP who I judge best for the area irrespective of their party.
I didn't say there wasn't. I simply said I couldn't think of any off the top of my head for the Tories.
We had lgbt rights and empolyment protection long before anything introduced by the EU.
We are quite good at that sort of thing..
I absolutely agree and it kinda annoys me when I hear people in this country slagging off a country that is one of the most open and liberal country's in world while at the same time claiming credit from the EU.... So again where's your rights protected in Slovakia, Lithuania, Hungary, Romania, Czech republic.... Go and live there and tell me how the EU is protecting your LBGT rights.
Quite frankly it's bollocks, these rights as you put them are only brought about by the most forward and liberal society's and none of it had anything at all to do with the EU, laws are utterly meaningless, always have been, morality is cultural and takes years of evolutionary digression
There's no point debating with you when you don't even understand how the EctHR works.
They do not do judicial review Europe-wide. They do so for the country in which the case before them originates.
It is fact that the UK government has only changed the law to be equal/inclusive to LGBT people after the case has been found by the ECtHR
to breach their human rights. That applies to the top 4 cases in my OP.
Social mores didn't change the laws, the UK government didn't act on their own - they acted only when the ECtHR said they were wrong.
That is indisputable fact. .
Again laws don't make you feel included, cultural acceptance does, how many other countries have a better acceptance than the UK!.
I would suggest that human movement suggests not many
Laws give people undeniable rights and protection from being mistreated.
Social acceptance does not. You clearly have no idea of the importance of having your rights enshrined in law. .
Laws mean nothing, there utterly meaningless, Jewish people had the law on there side in 1934, they were exterminated on mass in 1942!
And in the cases in my OP laws meant everything!!!!
They meant everything because they gave LGBT people rights that they didn't have until that point.
Social acceptance didn't give them those rights, only the law did.
By your logic we'd have no need to make any laws.
Clearly you just don't understand; the workings of the court and the need for laws. .
That's right, 90% of everybody in this country don't need laws, I don't need a law to tell me it's bad to commit murder I don't need a law to tell me I shouldn't fiddle with kids I don't need a law to tell me i shouldn't discriminate on gender or race....I don't need any of those things personally....
Now a society is different, were made up of the many and some people just aren't going to accept you, get over it, no law will change that!.
What your actually talking about is remuneration for being not accepted!.
Cultural paradigm shifts come after decades of social interaction...... Not from somebody passing a law"You need the Wizard of Oz. | |||
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"Cameron and others personally voted against lgbt equality law measures. The EU has been great for us and it's feasible that rights are taken away, with the tyranny of the masses effect. The conservatives stoked anger against gay people with the early AIDS movement and have intolerant old school blood within. I rather like our equality laws and don't see need for costly scrapping and another British bill etc. It's clear that people have positive protection via Europe and we should stay. And yet, according to labour's Ken Livingstone, the Tories are "riddled with homosexuals". I guess they hate themselve? There's lots of examples of self loathing gays. The 'pray away the gay' movement in the US is a prime example. If I went looking I'm sure I could find MPs who voted for Section 28 but were gay/bi themselves. Right so we're back to 'Labour good, Tories bad' and let's turn a blind eye to the obvious prejudice behind that statement. In terms of LGBT rights? Yes. When marriage equality came up for a vote Cameron and Clegg had to rely on Labour to get it passed because half the Tories voted against it. Name one thing that it's 'Tories good, Labour bad' then? I can't off the top of my head.
I'll have to get back to you on that after I think long and hard.
Thanks, just wanted to show that you're a blind idealogue.
I think you're showing your own ideology.
Ideology is obsolete in post-cold war politics. There are good and bad points in Tories, Lib Dems, Labour, UKIP and Greens. I vote for the local MP who I judge best for the area irrespective of their party.
I didn't say there wasn't. I simply said I couldn't think of any off the top of my head for the Tories.
We had lgbt rights and empolyment protection long before anything introduced by the EU.
We are quite good at that sort of thing..
I absolutely agree and it kinda annoys me when I hear people in this country slagging off a country that is one of the most open and liberal country's in world while at the same time claiming credit from the EU.... So again where's your rights protected in Slovakia, Lithuania, Hungary, Romania, Czech republic.... Go and live there and tell me how the EU is protecting your LBGT rights.
Quite frankly it's bollocks, these rights as you put them are only brought about by the most forward and liberal society's and none of it had anything at all to do with the EU, laws are utterly meaningless, always have been, morality is cultural and takes years of evolutionary digression
There's no point debating with you when you don't even understand how the EctHR works.
They do not do judicial review Europe-wide. They do so for the country in which the case before them originates.
It is fact that the UK government has only changed the law to be equal/inclusive to LGBT people after the case has been found by the ECtHR
to breach their human rights. That applies to the top 4 cases in my OP.
Social mores didn't change the laws, the UK government didn't act on their own - they acted only when the ECtHR said they were wrong.
That is indisputable fact. .
Again laws don't make you feel included, cultural acceptance does, how many other countries have a better acceptance than the UK!.
I would suggest that human movement suggests not many
Laws give people undeniable rights and protection from being mistreated.
Social acceptance does not. You clearly have no idea of the importance of having your rights enshrined in law. .
Laws mean nothing, there utterly meaningless, Jewish people had the law on there side in 1934, they were exterminated on mass in 1942!
And in the cases in my OP laws meant everything!!!!
They meant everything because they gave LGBT people rights that they didn't have until that point.
Social acceptance didn't give them those rights, only the law did.
By your logic we'd have no need to make any laws.
Clearly you just don't understand; the workings of the court and the need for laws. .
That's right, 90% of everybody in this country don't need laws, I don't need a law to tell me it's bad to commit murder I don't need a law to tell me I shouldn't fiddle with kids I don't need a law to tell me i shouldn't discriminate on gender or race....I don't need any of those things personally....
Now a society is different, were made up of the many and some people just aren't going to accept you, get over it, no law will change that!.
What your actually talking about is remuneration for being not accepted!.
Cultural paradigm shifts come after decades of social interaction...... Not from somebody passing a law"The Doors layeth the smack down. As someone who travels round eastern Europe a lot, I assure you they don't give a rats ass about anti-discrimination EU law. They'll happily agree to it but I don't mean a thang. | |||
"Cameron and others personally voted against lgbt equality law measures. The EU has been great for us and it's feasible that rights are taken away, with the tyranny of the masses effect. The conservatives stoked anger against gay people with the early AIDS movement and have intolerant old school blood within. I rather like our equality laws and don't see need for costly scrapping and another British bill etc. It's clear that people have positive protection via Europe and we should stay. And yet, according to labour's Ken Livingstone, the Tories are "riddled with homosexuals". I guess they hate themselve? There's lots of examples of self loathing gays. The 'pray away the gay' movement in the US is a prime example. If I went looking I'm sure I could find MPs who voted for Section 28 but were gay/bi themselves. Right so we're back to 'Labour good, Tories bad' and let's turn a blind eye to the obvious prejudice behind that statement. In terms of LGBT rights? Yes. When marriage equality came up for a vote Cameron and Clegg had to rely on Labour to get it passed because half the Tories voted against it. Name one thing that it's 'Tories good, Labour bad' then? I can't off the top of my head.
I'll have to get back to you on that after I think long and hard.
Thanks, just wanted to show that you're a blind idealogue.
I think you're showing your own ideology.
Ideology is obsolete in post-cold war politics. There are good and bad points in Tories, Lib Dems, Labour, UKIP and Greens. I vote for the local MP who I judge best for the area irrespective of their party.
I didn't say there wasn't. I simply said I couldn't think of any off the top of my head for the Tories.
We had lgbt rights and empolyment protection long before anything introduced by the EU.
We are quite good at that sort of thing..
I absolutely agree and it kinda annoys me when I hear people in this country slagging off a country that is one of the most open and liberal country's in world while at the same time claiming credit from the EU.... So again where's your rights protected in Slovakia, Lithuania, Hungary, Romania, Czech republic.... Go and live there and tell me how the EU is protecting your LBGT rights.
Quite frankly it's bollocks, these rights as you put them are only brought about by the most forward and liberal society's and none of it had anything at all to do with the EU, laws are utterly meaningless, always have been, morality is cultural and takes years of evolutionary digression
There's no point debating with you when you don't even understand how the EctHR works.
They do not do judicial review Europe-wide. They do so for the country in which the case before them originates.
It is fact that the UK government has only changed the law to be equal/inclusive to LGBT people after the case has been found by the ECtHR
to breach their human rights. That applies to the top 4 cases in my OP.
Social mores didn't change the laws, the UK government didn't act on their own - they acted only when the ECtHR said they were wrong.
That is indisputable fact. .
Again laws don't make you feel included, cultural acceptance does, how many other countries have a better acceptance than the UK!.
I would suggest that human movement suggests not many
Laws give people undeniable rights and protection from being mistreated.
Social acceptance does not. You clearly have no idea of the importance of having your rights enshrined in law. "You got theft insurance for your car? | |||
"Cameron and others personally voted against lgbt equality law measures. The EU has been great for us and it's feasible that rights are taken away, with the tyranny of the masses effect. The conservatives stoked anger against gay people with the early AIDS movement and have intolerant old school blood within. I rather like our equality laws and don't see need for costly scrapping and another British bill etc. It's clear that people have positive protection via Europe and we should stay. And yet, according to labour's Ken Livingstone, the Tories are "riddled with homosexuals". I guess they hate themselve? There's lots of examples of self loathing gays. The 'pray away the gay' movement in the US is a prime example. If I went looking I'm sure I could find MPs who voted for Section 28 but were gay/bi themselves. Right so we're back to 'Labour good, Tories bad' and let's turn a blind eye to the obvious prejudice behind that statement. In terms of LGBT rights? Yes. When marriage equality came up for a vote Cameron and Clegg had to rely on Labour to get it passed because half the Tories voted against it. Name one thing that it's 'Tories good, Labour bad' then? I can't off the top of my head.
I'll have to get back to you on that after I think long and hard.
Thanks, just wanted to show that you're a blind idealogue.
I think you're showing your own ideology.
Ideology is obsolete in post-cold war politics. There are good and bad points in Tories, Lib Dems, Labour, UKIP and Greens. I vote for the local MP who I judge best for the area irrespective of their party.
I didn't say there wasn't. I simply said I couldn't think of any off the top of my head for the Tories.
We had lgbt rights and empolyment protection long before anything introduced by the EU.
We are quite good at that sort of thing..
I absolutely agree and it kinda annoys me when I hear people in this country slagging off a country that is one of the most open and liberal country's in world while at the same time claiming credit from the EU.... So again where's your rights protected in Slovakia, Lithuania, Hungary, Romania, Czech republic.... Go and live there and tell me how the EU is protecting your LBGT rights.
Quite frankly it's bollocks, these rights as you put them are only brought about by the most forward and liberal society's and none of it had anything at all to do with the EU, laws are utterly meaningless, always have been, morality is cultural and takes years of evolutionary digression
There's no point debating with you when you don't even understand how the EctHR works.
They do not do judicial review Europe-wide. They do so for the country in which the case before them originates.
It is fact that the UK government has only changed the law to be equal/inclusive to LGBT people after the case has been found by the ECtHR
to breach their human rights. That applies to the top 4 cases in my OP.
Social mores didn't change the laws, the UK government didn't act on their own - they acted only when the ECtHR said they were wrong.
That is indisputable fact. .
Again laws don't make you feel included, cultural acceptance does, how many other countries have a better acceptance than the UK!.
I would suggest that human movement suggests not many
Laws give people undeniable rights and protection from being mistreated.
Social acceptance does not. You clearly have no idea of the importance of having your rights enshrined in law.
You got theft insurance for your car?"I don't think anyone objects to having the law, it's a question of credit. The laws exist because everyday people busted their ass to force them, not because Nobel politicians saved us from ourselves. | |||
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"... When turkey joins the eu however in the near future, ...eu member states will have to bend to accomodate them in whatever way they deem as appropriate (my bet is that the first step will be to uplift the burka ban in france) then ...opinion knowing the islamic views on gay people and equality for women. Do you think islam will yield ... " Do you consider the year 3000 to be the 'very near future'? Turkey isn't joining if we don't sign for them to join and they are years away - if they ever will be - from having made the changes that they have to before they'd get a chance. | |||
"... When turkey joins the eu however in the near future, ...eu member states will have to bend to accomodate them in whatever way they deem as appropriate (my bet is that the first step will be to uplift the burka ban in france) then ...opinion knowing the islamic views on gay people and equality for women. Do you think islam will yield ... Do you consider the year 3000 to be the 'very near future'? Turkey isn't joining if we don't sign for them to join and they are years away - if they ever will be - from having made the changes that they have to before they'd get a chance. " Why on earth do you think we wouldnt vote for them? In case you weren't aware Britain has been thier major supporter/driving force in turkeys membership bid. A yes vote from the UK is a certainty | |||
"Turkey ain't joining. It can't even stop itself from fucking around with its own press. Burkha is a tricky issue. However I know some women who would be pretty mortified if they were forced to have it removed. Which is kinda against their religious, cultural, and gender rights isn't it? Just saying.." Fun game at what point does something become a religion and at what point is it just made up nonsense? I ask because I'm curious if i could start a religion so i dont have to take my helmet off in shops and banks. | |||
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"Cameron and others personally voted against lgbt equality law measures. The EU has been great for us and it's feasible that rights are taken away, with the tyranny of the masses effect. The conservatives stoked anger against gay people with the early AIDS movement and have intolerant old school blood within. I rather like our equality laws and don't see need for costly scrapping and another British bill etc. It's clear that people have positive protection via Europe and we should stay. And yet, according to labour's Ken Livingstone, the Tories are "riddled with homosexuals". I guess they hate themselve? There's lots of examples of self loathing gays. The 'pray away the gay' movement in the US is a prime example. If I went looking I'm sure I could find MPs who voted for Section 28 but were gay/bi themselves. Right so we're back to 'Labour good, Tories bad' and let's turn a blind eye to the obvious prejudice behind that statement. In terms of LGBT rights? Yes. When marriage equality came up for a vote Cameron and Clegg had to rely on Labour to get it passed because half the Tories voted against it. Name one thing that it's 'Tories good, Labour bad' then? I can't off the top of my head.
I'll have to get back to you on that after I think long and hard.
Thanks, just wanted to show that you're a blind idealogue.
I think you're showing your own ideology.
Ideology is obsolete in post-cold war politics. There are good and bad points in Tories, Lib Dems, Labour, UKIP and Greens. I vote for the local MP who I judge best for the area irrespective of their party.
I didn't say there wasn't. I simply said I couldn't think of any off the top of my head for the Tories.
We had lgbt rights and empolyment protection long before anything introduced by the EU.
We are quite good at that sort of thing..
I absolutely agree and it kinda annoys me when I hear people in this country slagging off a country that is one of the most open and liberal country's in world while at the same time claiming credit from the EU.... So again where's your rights protected in Slovakia, Lithuania, Hungary, Romania, Czech republic.... Go and live there and tell me how the EU is protecting your LBGT rights.
Quite frankly it's bollocks, these rights as you put them are only brought about by the most forward and liberal society's and none of it had anything at all to do with the EU, laws are utterly meaningless, always have been, morality is cultural and takes years of evolutionary digression
There's no point debating with you when you don't even understand how the EctHR works.
They do not do judicial review Europe-wide. They do so for the country in which the case before them originates.
It is fact that the UK government has only changed the law to be equal/inclusive to LGBT people after the case has been found by the ECtHR
to breach their human rights. That applies to the top 4 cases in my OP.
Social mores didn't change the laws, the UK government didn't act on their own - they acted only when the ECtHR said they were wrong.
That is indisputable fact. .
Again laws don't make you feel included, cultural acceptance does, how many other countries have a better acceptance than the UK!.
I would suggest that human movement suggests not many
Laws give people undeniable rights and protection from being mistreated.
Social acceptance does not. You clearly have no idea of the importance of having your rights enshrined in law.
You got theft insurance for your car?
I don't think anyone objects to having the law, it's a question of credit. The laws exist because everyday people busted their ass to force them, not because Nobel politicians saved us from ourselves. "My point was a law alone provides you with no protection like he claimed. | |||
"Human rights wasn't this on the news some time ago about some of our rights being taken away from us as our government didn't agree on them if so then surely we only have rights in a government state but if it's not what they like then they will be removed " Well obviously as shown by there being differnt rights in differnt countries. For instance; You do not have the right to own a fire arm in the uk. You do have the right not to be forced to perform national service unlike switzerland. And so on. | |||
"... When turkey joins the eu however in the near future, ...eu member states will have to bend to accomodate them in whatever way they deem as appropriate (my bet is that the first step will be to uplift the burka ban in france) then ...opinion knowing the islamic views on gay people and equality for women. Do you think islam will yield ... Do you consider the year 3000 to be the 'very near future'? Turkey isn't joining if we don't sign for them to join and they are years away - if they ever will be - from having made the changes that they have to before they'd get a chance. Why on earth do you think we wouldnt vote for them? In case you weren't aware Britain has been thier major supporter/driving force in turkeys membership bid. A yes vote from the UK is a certainty" We'll probably have had 101 different governments here by the time we could be put in a position to vote. And I'd be uncertain that our government would sign to accept, if the public mood was similar to today. But it's hypothetical, as turkey are pretty much as unprepared for meeting the conditions for joining as the Queen is ready for a gang bang with you and I later today. | |||
