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Voting tomorrow!
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"Stay: Pro- No economic uncertainity Visa free travel to Europe for your holidays Con- Uncontrolled imigration Makes David Cameron and George Osborne happy Leave: Pro- Don't have uncontrolled imigration Don't have to listen to EU Con- Huge economic uncertainty Makes Nige Farage and Boris Johnson happy No visa free travel to Europe" Thanks now my heads even more fried, the thought of making DC unhappy though is appealing  | |||
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"Vote leave - immigration which is a red herring as 50% is from non eu counties which we have complete control over yet do nothing. Vote remain - status quo, better trade, employment rights, environmental protection, being European, cheaper holidays abroad, culture, ability to safely retire abroad, human rights act, treated fairly and equally and avoids a non isolation policy on the world stage... Guess what I'm voting? "Errrrmmm let me guess  | |||
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"Stay: Pro- No economic uncertainity Visa free travel to Europe for your holidays Con- Uncontrolled imigration Makes David Cameron and George Osborne happy Leave: Pro- Don't have uncontrolled imigration Don't have to listen to EU Con- Huge economic uncertainty Makes Nige Farage and Boris Johnson happy No visa free travel to Europe Thanks now my heads even more fried, the thought of making DC unhappy though is appealing "While it is appealing, I'd rather see Johnson and Farage unhappy | |||
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"Stay: Pro- No economic uncertainity Visa free travel to Europe for your holidays Con- Uncontrolled imigration Makes David Cameron and George Osborne happy Leave: Pro- Don't have uncontrolled imigration Don't have to listen to EU Con- Huge economic uncertainty Makes Nige Farage and Boris Johnson happy No visa free travel to Europe" you will almost certainly have visa free travel to Europe. that's not really part of the EU deal. and seriously 20 quid and a form when you're on a flight is worthy of being on your "con" list? | |||
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"Vote leave - immigration which is a red herring as 50% is from non eu counties which we have complete control over yet do nothing." we do a lot, which is why those non eu immigrants have money to support themselves and a skill. they;re the ones plugging u pour skill shortages | |||
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"Google for Martin Lewis's blog post on it. It's the most balanced one I've seen." I love Martin Lewis, I want to marry him ! I'll look now thank you x | |||
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"Stay: Pro- No economic uncertainity Visa free travel to Europe for your holidays Con- Uncontrolled imigration Makes David Cameron and George Osborne happy Leave: Pro- Don't have uncontrolled imigration Don't have to listen to EU Con- Huge economic uncertainty Makes Nige Farage and Boris Johnson happy No visa free travel to Europe you will almost certainly have visa free travel to Europe. that's not really part of the EU deal. and seriously 20 quid and a form when you're on a flight is worthy of being on your "con" list?" The point of the visa is the free movement aspect. And if we can get free movement without having all the issues that make people want to leave the EU anyway, I'll have sprouts with my christmas dinner. (I would say eat my hat but I don't have a hat). | |||
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"Don't rely on emotional pushes. This is complex and far reaching, rather than something just here and now, affecting one person. Consider the value of free movement of our people as well as our goods into Europe. The value of pollution and environmental controls made happen across Europe and the UK - air pollution kills thousands here but our government is forced to deal with it. We will still have EU immigration if we trade as part of the European block, like Norway, so immigration will remain the same. Consider job losses and gains - companies who locate their buildings and staff within the EU: Where they locate, depending on the 2 outcomes? Logistics companies managing European product distribution - the UK based ones who have contracts, what happens to them? All businesses who supply stuff to those other businesses, how do they fare? Your calculation of travel costs. The contributions of Europeans who live in the UK. There's a long list, not including the costs involved if we dpull put." This is one of the most thoughtful and best responses I've seen | |||
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"Vote leave - immigration which is a red herring as 50% is from non eu counties which we have complete control over yet do nothing. we do a lot, which is why those non eu immigrants have money to support themselves and a skill. they;re the ones plugging u pour skill shortages " This why i drive a taxi alongside my non eu migrant colleagues, who just happen to be qualified tailors, mechanics, engineers and such | |||
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"Stay: Con- Makes David Cameron and George Osborne happy Leave: Con- Makes Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson happy " This is the biggest headache of all of it for me. How do I vote if I want to make all the gormless fuckers unhappy? Vote 'Independence for the North!' | |||
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"What ever you do VOTE LEAVE" No thank you, if it's all tbe same to you. But thanks for the suggestion. | |||
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"Vote leave - immigration which is a red herring as 50% is from non eu counties which we have complete control over yet do nothing. Vote remain - status quo, better trade, employment rights, environmental protection, being European, cheaper holidays abroad, culture, ability to safely retire abroad, human rights act, treated fairly and equally and avoids a non isolation policy on the world stage... Guess what I'm voting? "I'm going to retire to Hawaii is that in Europe now then | |||
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"What ever you do VOTE LEAVE No thank you, if it's all tbe same to you. But thanks for the suggestion." Yes thanks, do you know...i think i will..thanks  | |||
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"What ever you do VOTE LEAVE" What ever you do VOTE REMAIN | |||
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"Don't forget..we are voting to leave the EU, not Europe... We will always be in Europe!!! " By isolation we can expect a great response in the 5 years of wrangling about trade not just with the EU but disappointed partners like the US and China  | |||
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"For me it's simple: continue the way we're going and the NHS will fail/be dismantled. Are you prepared to pay for all medical treatment and have a two tier system for the haves and have nots? It's not working in Ireland it would be hell here. Stay in the EU and we're heading for NHS collapse. Leave and we can attempt to salvage it. " Work in the NHS by chance?? | |||
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"What ever you do VOTE LEAVE What ever you do VOTE REMAIN "idiot | |||
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"For me it's simple: continue the way we're going and the NHS will fail/be dismantled. Are you prepared to pay for all medical treatment and have a two tier system for the haves and have nots? It's not working in Ireland it would be hell here. Stay in the EU and we're heading for NHS collapse. Leave and we can attempt to salvage it. "  | |||
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"For me it's simple: continue the way we're going and the NHS will fail/be dismantled. Are you prepared to pay for all medical treatment and have a two tier system for the haves and have nots? It's not working in Ireland it would be hell here. Stay in the EU and we're heading for NHS collapse. Leave and we can attempt to salvage it. Work in the NHS by chance??" Nope. Spent a hell of a lot of time using it and if it was the system the Irish now have or any pay for it medical service I would be much sicker, severely scarred or possibly even dead. | |||
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"If we was not in it would you vote in ? " No, but our circumstances from not entering would be known. Our circumstances from leaving are unknown. | |||
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"This subject has to be the most boring thread so far on this swinging ! site. " And your comment is the most "boring" and unwanted on this thread, if you don't want to read the post then don't! You chose to click on the subject, then read all the comments, then open your response page, then type out a message, then press send... Quite a lot of effort on your part considering its a "boring" post! | |||
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"I really don't know which way to vote tomorrow, I have watched a number of programmes and read many articles, but I just can't make my mind up! Can anyone please explain briefly the main pros and cons of leaving or staying? I can't find one article by a "neutral" that clearly explains this, my tiny little brain can't cope ....HELP!! "Google the following.... "You Tube Liverpool University EU referendum" You can watch 24 minutes of opinion by a man who is probably the most qualified in his field and with no spin, no bullshit and no rhetoric. | |||
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"For me it's simple: continue the way we're going and the NHS will fail/be dismantled. Are you prepared to pay for all medical treatment and have a two tier system for the haves and have nots? It's not working in Ireland it would be hell here. Stay in the EU and we're heading for NHS collapse. Leave and we can attempt to salvage it. " I'm sorry Ms Devil but what on earth have you been reading to lead you to that conclusion? The NHS is certainly in danger, but that has absolutely nothing to do with The European Union. | |||
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"I really don't know which way to vote tomorrow, I have watched a number of programmes and read many articles, but I just can't make my mind up! Can anyone please explain briefly the main pros and cons of leaving or staying? I can't find one article by a "neutral" that clearly explains this, my tiny little brain can't cope ....HELP!!
Google the following....
"You Tube Liverpool University EU referendum"
You can watch 24 minutes of opinion by a man who is probably the most qualified in his field and with no spin, no bullshit and no rhetoric."Will have a look thank you | |||
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"This subject has to be the most boring thread so far on this swinging ! site. " And still you read it and comment, I love it | |||
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"I really don't know which way to vote tomorrow, I have watched a number of programmes and read many articles, but I just can't make my mind up! Can anyone please explain briefly the main pros and cons of leaving or staying? I can't find one article by a "neutral" that clearly explains this, my tiny little brain can't cope ....HELP!! "Nearly everything you will find on this referendum is bull shit. Normally I would of been one of those that called out "people died fir your right to vote" but in this case if you don't feel persuaded one way or another just sit it out. Or if your as immature as me draw a cock and balls 9n the paper. I'm voting leave. | |||
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"For me it's simple: continue the way we're going and the NHS will fail/be dismantled. Are you prepared to pay for all medical treatment and have a two tier system for the haves and have nots? It's not working in Ireland it would be hell here. Stay in the EU and we're heading for NHS collapse. Leave and we can attempt to salvage it. " That is simply not true and statements like this and others along those lines have been resolutely rebuked and debunked by the BMA. Note the pattern of Brexit messages... Alarmist, conspiracy theories and the continued proliferation and spreading of blatant lies. Why would any reasonable person continue to replicate statements that they know are factually incorrect? Clue... It is more acceptable to lie than to admit what really motivates them. | |||
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iAgKHSNqxa8&t=6m42s&feature=youtu.be | |||
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"This subject has to be the most boring thread so far on this swinging ! site. And still you read it and comment, I love it" Well said | |||
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"What ever you do VOTE LEAVE" .............We will...just like everyone in my family.My friend's,workmates and most of the British army. | |||
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"For me it's simple: continue the way we're going and the NHS will fail/be dismantled. Are you prepared to pay for all medical treatment and have a two tier system for the haves and have nots? It's not working in Ireland it would be hell here. Stay in the EU and we're heading for NHS collapse. Leave and we can attempt to salvage it. " Post-Brexit, Uou're asking a right-wing, market obsessed administration stuffed with the likes of Johnson, Gove, Farage and IDS to save the NHS as you know it? Utter madness | |||
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"I really don't know which way to vote tomorrow, I have watched a number of programmes and read many articles, but I just can't make my mind up! Can anyone please explain briefly the main pros and cons of leaving or staying? I can't find one article by a "neutral" that clearly explains this, my tiny little brain can't cope ....HELP!!
Google the following....
"You Tube Liverpool University EU referendum"
You can watch 24 minutes of opinion by a man who is probably the most qualified in his field and with no spin, no bullshit and no rhetoric."If this is the same Professor Michael Duggan, whether you are in or out it is WELL WORTH A WATCH. He is an expert in the European set up and the implications and processes of leaving. https://www.youtube.com/embed/USTypBKEd8Y | |||
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"I really don't know which way to vote tomorrow, I have watched a number of programmes and read many articles, but I just can't make my mind up! Can anyone please explain briefly the main pros and cons of leaving or staying? I can't find one article by a "neutral" that clearly explains this, my tiny little brain can't cope ....HELP!!
Google the following....
"You Tube Liverpool University EU referendum"
You can watch 24 minutes of opinion by a man who is probably the most qualified in his field and with no spin, no bullshit and no rhetoric."A good video, as is professor Minfords if you want an alternative independent view. | |||
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"If we was not in it would you vote in ? " depends on the state of the country nobody can predict how the country would be if we never joined so a hard question to answer if we were in a state and i though the EU could help then yes id vote in if we were do ok alone then no | |||
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"For me it's simple: continue the way we're going and the NHS will fail/be dismantled. Are you prepared to pay for all medical treatment and have a two tier system for the haves and have nots? It's not working in Ireland it would be hell here. Stay in the EU and we're heading for NHS collapse. Leave and we can attempt to salvage it. " I would love to read the thinking behind this post. Do you have any to share? | |||
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"For me it's simple: continue the way we're going and the NHS will fail/be dismantled. Are you prepared to pay for all medical treatment and have a two tier system for the haves and have nots? It's not working in Ireland it would be hell here. Stay in the EU and we're heading for NHS collapse. Leave and we can attempt to salvage it. I'm sorry Ms Devil but what on earth have you been reading to lead you to that conclusion? The NHS is certainly in danger, but that has absolutely nothing to do with The European Union. " A statement from the head of midwifery in UK asks people to vote REMAIN to prevent the demise of the NHS. | |||
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"For me it's simple: continue the way we're going and the NHS will fail/be dismantled. Are you prepared to pay for all medical treatment and have a two tier system for the haves and have nots? It's not working in Ireland it would be hell here. Stay in the EU and we're heading for NHS collapse. Leave and we can attempt to salvage it. " The government is not investing in it as a choice. The same choice and action will prevail in or out. | |||
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"For me it's simple: continue the way we're going and the NHS will fail/be dismantled. Are you prepared to pay for all medical treatment and have a two tier system for the haves and have nots? It's not working in Ireland it would be hell here. Stay in the EU and we're heading for NHS collapse. Leave and we can attempt to salvage it. That is simply not true and statements like this and others along those lines have been resolutely rebuked and debunked by the BMA. " this.. Mrs Surrey has worked in the NHS for 36 years, we have other family members with a combined service of about the same time and none of them would agree.. | |||
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"What ever you do VOTE LEAVE.............We will...just like everyone in my family.My friend's,workmates and most of the British army." | |||
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" and seriously 20 quid and a form when you're on a flight is worthy of being on your "con" list?" The point of the visa is the free movement aspect. And if we can get free movement without having all the issues that make people want to leave the EU anyway, I'll have sprouts with my christmas dinner. (I would say eat my hat but I don't have a hat). " Did you need a visa to go to the Costa wherever before 1973, 75 or 98? No. I have visited the USA twice now on holiday (OK I worked there as well but that is a different debate) and you take 10 minutes to fill in a green form, its checked on arrival and stapled to your passport. It takes longer to drink a cup of coffee.... And you honestly think the holiday resorts are going to allow the Aparatchics in Brussels to create a set of barriers to millions of Brits spending millions of Euros in their resorts? Don't think so. | |||
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"For me it's simple: continue the way we're going and the NHS will fail/be dismantled. Are you prepared to pay for all medical treatment and have a two tier system for the haves and have nots? It's not working in Ireland it would be hell here. Stay in the EU and we're heading for NHS collapse. Leave and we can attempt to salvage it. Post-Brexit, Uou're asking a right-wing, market obsessed administration stuffed with the likes of Johnson, Gove, Farage and IDS to save the NHS as you know it? Utter madness "...... who will have saved the NHS from the ravages of an American driven TTIP ..... And here is the key thing about all this. We can vote those Right wingers out and put in power whoever we want. We cannot do that to any of the EU Commission. The people who make our Laws, Regulations and Directives (as has been proven today), who make all the trade deals (or rather who fail to) and over whom we have NO democratic control whatsoever. Vote Leave and take back control of our destiny and democracy... | |||
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"For me it's simple: continue the way we're going and the NHS will fail/be dismantled. Are you prepared to pay for all medical treatment and have a two tier system for the haves and have nots? It's not working in Ireland it would be hell here. Stay in the EU and we're heading for NHS collapse. Leave and we can attempt to salvage it. Post-Brexit, Uou're asking a right-wing, market obsessed administration stuffed with the likes of Johnson, Gove, Farage and IDS to save the NHS as you know it? Utter madness
...... who will have saved the NHS from the ravages of an American driven TTIP .....
And here is the key thing about all this. We can vote those Right wingers out and put in power whoever we want. We cannot do that to any of the EU Commission. The people who make our Laws, Regulations and Directives (as has been proven today), who make all the trade deals (or rather who fail to) and over whom we have NO democratic control whatsoever.
Vote Leave and take back control of our destiny and democracy...".. ...Well said. | |||
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"For me it's simple: continue the way we're going and the NHS will fail/be dismantled. Are you prepared to pay for all medical treatment and have a two tier system for the haves and have nots? It's not working in Ireland it would be hell here. Stay in the EU and we're heading for NHS collapse. Leave and we can attempt to salvage it. Post-Brexit, Uou're asking a right-wing, market obsessed administration stuffed with the likes of Johnson, Gove, Farage and IDS to save the NHS as you know it? Utter madness
...... who will have saved the NHS from the ravages of an American driven TTIP .....
"Our government? The Tories can exempt the NHS from TTIP. Why wouldn't they? | |||
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" Note the pattern of Brexit messages... Alarmist, conspiracy theories and the continued proliferation and spreading of blatant lies..." The hallmark of Cameron and the other filthy rich like Soros who threaten us with war, pestilence and economic collapse if we don't do as we're told!But they have no interest in the UK they have a personal financial interest in milking the EU taxpayer for all its worth. Their personal ambitions and the salaries of the EU unelected fat cats will destroy Europe. | |||
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" The value of pollution and environmental controls made happen across Europe and the UK - air pollution kills thousands here but our government is forced to deal with it." So is that why Germany is dismantling its emission free nuclear power plants and building new gas and coal fired power stations? Luckily for the UK the prevailing winds are from the Atlantic so Russia will collect German pollution not us. " We will still have EU immigration if we trade as part of the European block, like Norway, so immigration will remain the same." Why do the Remainers keep dragging up Norway as an example? Even Norwegians don't like their deal... No we are a considerably bigger and more diverse economy than Norway. They absolutely NEED the EU market for their raw material exports. Like 75% goes to the EU and they have a huge surplus and so believe its worth the deal. We however have a £61 Bn a year trade deficit with the EU and trade more with rest of the world. The EU needs us more than we need them in pure trade terms. As the head of the German CBI said today: It would be foolish not to do a deal with the UK post Brexit (I paraphrased) The real issue is why do we pay some £13 Bn a year to be part of an organisation that dominates every facet of our lives and the laws that govern us and we lose £61 Bn a year in trade to them? We have to fund that foreign exchange and those payments by borrowing more than the 2015/16 PSBR deficit .. (which was about £69 Bn) | |||
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"For me it's simple: continue the way we're going and the NHS will fail/be dismantled. Are you prepared to pay for all medical treatment and have a two tier system for the haves and have nots? It's not working in Ireland it would be hell here. Stay in the EU and we're heading for NHS collapse. Leave and we can attempt to salvage it. Post-Brexit, Uou're asking a right-wing, market obsessed administration stuffed with the likes of Johnson, Gove, Farage and IDS to save the NHS as you know it? Utter madness
...... who will have saved the NHS from the ravages of an American driven TTIP .....
And here is the key thing about all this. We can vote those Right wingers out and put in power whoever we want. We cannot do that to any of the EU Commission. The people who make our Laws, Regulations and Directives (as has been proven today), who make all the trade deals (or rather who fail to) and over whom we have NO democratic control whatsoever.
Vote Leave and take back control of our destiny and democracy..."Do you even understand what TTIP is? Outside the EU, there is even more chance we will end up in a TTIP style trade agreement driven by the US, as that is exactly what the Leave campaign is claiming we will be able to create once freed from the EU. In fact we will have to go down that route, as we won't have the strength of other European countries to empower our negotiations. The current UK government who will still be in power in the event of Brexit are the ones who have pushed for the most disadvantageous form of TTIP for Europe...and it is countries like France who have prevented them from selling out our country. If you genuinely understand what TTIP is, and think it's a bad idea, Remain is your only choice. Unfortunately, I think that the most Leave campaigners actually know about TTIP is how to spell it.  | |||
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" Alarmist, conspiracy theories and the continued proliferation and spreading of blatant lies. Why would any reasonable person continue to replicate statements that they know are factually incorrect? Clue... It is more acceptable to lie than to admit what really motivates them. " Unintentionally I am sure you just described the 'Remain' campaign perfectly. | |||
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" The value of pollution and environmental controls made happen across Europe and the UK - air pollution kills thousands here but our government is forced to deal with it. So is that why Germany is dismantling its emission free nuclear power plants and building new gas and coal fired power stations? Luckily for the UK the prevailing winds are from the Atlantic so Russia will collect German pollution not us. We will still have EU immigration if we trade as part of the European block, like Norway, so immigration will remain the same. Why do the Remainers keep dragging up Norway as an example? Even Norwegians don't like their deal... No we are a considerably bigger and more diverse economy than Norway. They absolutely NEED the EU market for their raw material exports. Like 75% goes to the EU and they have a huge surplus and so believe its worth the deal. We however have a £61 Bn a year trade deficit with the EU and trade more with rest of the world. The EU needs us more than we need them in pure trade terms. As the head of the German CBI said today: It would be foolish not to do a deal with the UK post Brexit (I paraphrased) The real issue is why do we pay some £13 Bn a year to be part of an organisation that dominates every facet of our lives and the laws that govern us and we lose £61 Bn a year in trade to them? We have to fund that foreign exchange and those payments by borrowing more than the 2015/16 PSBR deficit .. (which was about £69 Bn) "So we export less to fund ourselves ? Genius Lies from leave campaign
If there is market instability trade suffers and if tariffs are imposed the amount of trade in total decreases.
The bright spot is if the pound is devalued we may get more exports. Unfortunately as a nation we haven't been world beaters at exporting. Leaving a problem that living standards take a direct hit through more expensive imports such as oil. | |||
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" If you genuinely understand what TTIP is, and think it's a bad idea, Remain is your only choice. Unfortunately, I think that the most Leave campaigners actually know about TTIP is how to spell it. " Please do not assume because people like me disagree with you that we are ignorant or stupid or less capable of understanding issues than you. As it happens I am capable of having a very detailed discussion with you about American ambitions using TTIP and how the EU is happy to sacrifice the totally unique NHS on the alter of the 'EU Project'. What I can also tell you is we already have a bilateral trade agreement with the USA. In February we traded a combined £6.3 Bn. The USA is our biggest export market, our biggest outward investing country and we are their biggest external investment country. And we do that despite having to charge a 10% EU enforced tariff on US goods. They charge us 2.5%. Post Brexit we could reduce all tariffs and double US / UK trade in 6 months. we do not need the EU for us to trade with the rest of the world. And we can block any attempts at a TTIP... | |||
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" If you genuinely understand what TTIP is, and think it's a bad idea, Remain is your only choice. Unfortunately, I think that the most Leave campaigners actually know about TTIP is how to spell it. Please do not assume because people like me disagree with you that we are ignorant or stupid or less capable of understanding issues than you. As it happens I am capable of having a very detailed discussion with you about American ambitions using TTIP and how the EU is happy to sacrifice the totally unique NHS on the alter of the 'EU Project'. What I can also tell you is we already have a bilateral trade agreement with the USA. In February we traded a combined £6.3 Bn. The USA is our biggest export market, our biggest outward investing country and we are their biggest external investment country. And we do that despite having to charge a 10% EU enforced tariff on US goods. They charge us 2.5%. Post Brexit we could reduce all tariffs and double US / UK trade in 6 months. we do not need the EU for us to trade with the rest of the world. And we can block any attempts at a TTIP..." If leave wins we are gonna need you as our leader in trade deal negotiations with the USA
The USA uses it's trade power to bully smaller nations into accepting terms favourable to US corporations. Now the USA is butt hurt at the impertinence of the EU in fighting fire with fire. Good luck trying to out muscle the USA alone | |||
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"If you want the British Army to be called the Wermacht in five years time then vote to stay. Get ruled by a Hausfrau and live under the Big Brother plutocrats in Brussels...not for me." more uneducated comments Bourne out of emotion and ignorance .. | |||
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"For me it's simple: continue the way we're going and the NHS will fail/be dismantled. Are you prepared to pay for all medical treatment and have a two tier system for the haves and have nots? It's not working in Ireland it would be hell here. Stay in the EU and we're heading for NHS collapse. Leave and we can attempt to salvage it. " Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and Ian Duncan Smith, who are likely to take over at the top of the Tory Government if we leave, are the ones who want to privatise the NHS! They have all written that they want to dismantle the NHS and introduce private health insurance. | |||
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"If you want the British Army to be called the Wermacht in five years time then vote to stay. Get ruled by a Hausfrau and live under the Big Brother plutocrats in Brussels...not for me.more uneducated comments Bourne out of emotion and ignorance .." #LeaveLies | |||
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" If you genuinely understand what TTIP is, and think it's a bad idea, Remain is your only choice. Unfortunately, I think that the most Leave campaigners actually know about TTIP is how to spell it. Please do not assume because people like me disagree with you that we are ignorant or stupid or less capable of understanding issues than you. As it happens I am capable of having a very detailed discussion with you about American ambitions using TTIP and how the EU is happy to sacrifice the totally unique NHS on the alter of the 'EU Project'. What I can also tell you is we already have a bilateral trade agreement with the USA. In February we traded a combined £6.3 Bn. The USA is our biggest export market, our biggest outward investing country and we are their biggest external investment country. And we do that despite having to charge a 10% EU enforced tariff on US goods. They charge us 2.5%. Post Brexit we could reduce all tariffs and double US / UK trade in 6 months. we do not need the EU for us to trade with the rest of the world. And we can block any attempts at a TTIP..." If you are so capable of having an intelligent discussion about it, why have you chosen to ignore the most important points? Our Conservative government is the biggest supporter of TTIP amongst the governments of Europe. It is the strength of EU dissent that is acting in the interests of the UK with regards to TTIP, not our own government. The reason TTIP hasn't happened already is due to pan-European protest. Once again, if you understand anything about TTIP beyond the initials, and you think it's a bad idea, you have no choice but to vote Remain. | |||
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"...more uneducated comments Bourne out of emotion and ignorance .." . LOL!!! | |||
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"For me it's simple: continue the way we're going and the NHS will fail/be dismantled. Are you prepared to pay for all medical treatment and have a two tier system for the haves and have nots? It's not working in Ireland it would be hell here. Stay in the EU and we're heading for NHS collapse. Leave and we can attempt to salvage it. Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and Ian Duncan Smith, who are likely to take over at the top of the Tory Government if we leave, are the ones who want to privatise the NHS! They have all written that they want to dismantle the NHS and introduce private health insurance." Daniel Hannan Tory MEP slagged off the NHS to the American media as it wasn't free market enough for him. Leave campaign lies constantly as they know the economic chaos that will ensue needs bullshit to confuse us. | |||
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"For me it's simple: continue the way we're going and the NHS will fail/be dismantled. Are you prepared to pay for all medical treatment and have a two tier system for the haves and have nots? It's not working in Ireland it would be hell here. Stay in the EU and we're heading for NHS collapse. Leave and we can attempt to salvage it. " totally agree | |||
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"Stay: Pro- No economic uncertainity Visa free travel to Europe for your holidays Con- Uncontrolled imigration Makes David Cameron and George Osborne happy Leave: Pro- Don't have uncontrolled imigration Don't have to listen to EU Con- Huge economic uncertainty Makes Nige Farage and Boris Johnson happy No visa free travel to Europe you will almost certainly have visa free travel to Europe. that's not really part of the EU deal. and seriously 20 quid and a form when you're on a flight is worthy of being on your "con" list? The point of the visa is the free movement aspect. And if we can get free movement without having all the issues that make people want to leave the EU anyway, I'll have sprouts with my christmas dinner. (I would say eat my hat but I don't have a hat)." Free movement has nothing to do with visa free travel. Lots of countries have visa free travel. Free movment is the main issue for a lot of people so bizzare thing to suggest keeping. Visa free = you don't need to apply and pay for a visa to go there for a holiday etc Freemovment = you can pack up your stuff and go get a job there tomorrow | |||
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" If you genuinely understand what TTIP is, and think it's a bad idea, Remain is your only choice. Unfortunately, I think that the most Leave campaigners actually know about TTIP is how to spell it. Please do not assume because people like me disagree with you that we are ignorant or stupid or less capable of understanding issues than you. As it happens I am capable of having a very detailed discussion with you about American ambitions using TTIP and how the EU is happy to sacrifice the totally unique NHS on the alter of the 'EU Project'. What I can also tell you is we already have a bilateral trade agreement with the USA. In February we traded a combined £6.3 Bn. The USA is our biggest export market, our biggest outward investing country and we are their biggest external investment country. And we do that despite having to charge a 10% EU enforced tariff on US goods. They charge us 2.5%. Post Brexit we could reduce all tariffs and double US / UK trade in 6 months. we do not need the EU for us to trade with the rest of the world. And we can block any attempts at a TTIP... If leave wins we are gonna need you as our leader in trade deal negotiations with the USA
The USA uses it's trade power to bully smaller nations into accepting terms favourable to US corporations. Now the USA is butt hurt at the impertinence of the EU in fighting fire with fire. Good luck trying to out muscle the USA alone "Never mind the USA, China and India and especially the rump EU will be queuing up to fuck us over. In a world of large trading blocks, we are about to walk away from the biggest of them all and become a relative minnow. | |||
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"Stay: Pro- No economic uncertainity Visa free travel to Europe for your holidays Con- Uncontrolled imigration Makes David Cameron and George Osborne happy Leave: Pro- Don't have uncontrolled imigration Don't have to listen to EU Con- Huge economic uncertainty Makes Nige Farage and Boris Johnson happy No visa free travel to Europe you will almost certainly have visa free travel to Europe. that's not really part of the EU deal. and seriously 20 quid and a form when you're on a flight is worthy of being on your "con" list? The point of the visa is the free movement aspect. And if we can get free movement without having all the issues that make people want to leave the EU anyway, I'll have sprouts with my christmas dinner. (I would say eat my hat but I don't have a hat). Free movement has nothing to do with visa free travel. Lots of countries have visa free travel. Free movment is the main issue for a lot of people so bizzare thing to suggest keeping. Visa free = you don't need to apply and pay for a visa to go there for a holiday etc Freemovment = you can pack up your stuff and go get a job there tomorrow" people do confuse the 'Free Movement of Labour' with free movement of people. A Polish family will be welcome here on holiday after Brexit no visa needed. However to work here they will need to qualify and earn enough points to show they can provide what a future UK Government has decided the country needs and in what numbers. Having an open door to whoever chooses to come here skills or no skills, job or no job is just anarchy on legs as far as planning infrastructure, services and health, education and housing resources. Vote Leave and we (not some unemployed labourer in Romania) control immigration both in numbers we can support, in the quality of resources we need and regardless of where the migrant comes from. | |||
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" Daniel Hannan Tory MEP slagged off the NHS to the American media as it wasn't free market enough for him. Leave campaign lies constantly as they know the economic chaos that will ensue needs bullshit to confuse us. " Well well well. dig up a 7 year old story and quote it out of context .... Shall we look at what Jeremy Corbyn said about the EU only last June when he was after the leader's job? Or what he said when he used to be an honest campaigning MP? I suspect that is far more hypocritical than anything Hannen could cook up ... he now thinks that unlimited immigration is wonderful! And then we get to the liar in chief Cameron. A man I helped elect and who I now despise with a loathing for his lies and manipulations of the truth. Cameron: We are better off inside and changing the EU ... Juncker today: "British voters have to know there will be no kind of any renegotiation. We have concluded a deal with the prime minister, he got the maximum he could receive, we gave the maximum we could give." Cameron: It will take years to negotiate a trade deal... Markus Kerber Head of the German CBI (BDI) today: said his organisation would make the case against such measures. "any introduction of tariffs would be regression to times we thought we'd left behind in the 1970s. Imposing trade barriers, imposing protectionist measures between our two countries ..... would be a very, very foolish thing in the 21st Century" Cameron: Turkey will never join the EU... (despite it being Government policy) EU today: "The EU will open membership talks with Turkey on June 30th" So Hannen gobbed off 7 years ago. Last time I looked he wasn't even an MP let alone a Minister. But now we have the Prime Minister and the Leader of the Opposition totally misleading us to stop us leaving... | |||
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" Never mind the USA, China and India and especially the rump EU will be queuing up to fuck us over. In a world of large trading blocks, we are about to walk away from the biggest of them all and become a relative minnow. " The 5th largest (soon to be the 4th) economy in the world. The 1st most powerful in 'Soft Power'. A seat at the UN security Council. 2nd largest contributor to NATO. A world leader in Financial services and Satellite technologies. That is some 'minnow' you have there. We are such a minnow that China asked us to be the centre for international trading of their currency and we now lead the Asia Investment Bank. We are such a minnow that the USA trades £ Billions every month with us. They are our biggest export market and they trade the same level with us. When we take out the EU enforced 10% Tariff their goods will be much cheaper here. Oh and we are their biggest external investor as they are with us. And given India is being fucked over by the EU every day in Tariffs and prohibitions when we leave they will be happy to drop their 117% Tariff on Scotch Whisky and we will sell far more to one of the biggest Whisky markets in the world. Oh and remind me who owns Jaguar Land Rover? Who tried to make our steel works viable but failed because of EU driven environment taxes? Inward investment? It seems those of us in the Brexit side have far more belief and hope for our country's future than those in the Remain side.... | |||
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" If you genuinely understand what TTIP is, and think it's a bad idea, Remain is your only choice. Unfortunately, I think that the most Leave campaigners actually know about TTIP is how to spell it. Please do not assume because people like me disagree with you that we are ignorant or stupid or less capable of understanding issues than you. As it happens I am capable of having a very detailed discussion with you about American ambitions using TTIP and how the EU is happy to sacrifice the totally unique NHS on the alter of the 'EU Project'. What I can also tell you is we already have a bilateral trade agreement with the USA. In February we traded a combined £6.3 Bn. The USA is our biggest export market, our biggest outward investing country and we are their biggest external investment country. And we do that despite having to charge a 10% EU enforced tariff on US goods. They charge us 2.5%. Post Brexit we could reduce all tariffs and double US / UK trade in 6 months. we do not need the EU for us to trade with the rest of the world. And we can block any attempts at a TTIP... If leave wins we are gonna need you as our leader in trade deal negotiations with the USA
The USA uses it's trade power to bully smaller nations into accepting terms favourable to US corporations. Now the USA is butt hurt at the impertinence of the EU in fighting fire with fire. Good luck trying to out muscle the USA alone
Never mind the USA, China and India and especially the rump EU will be queuing up to fuck us over.
In a world of large trading blocks, we are about to walk away from the biggest of them all and become a relative minnow."UK trade with US $56 billion a year in a market of 350 million people UK trade with EU £510 billion a year in a market of 500 million people. What ever dollar to pound rate you use our total trade with the EU is well over 10 times bigger than our total trade with the US. All things being equal UK/US trade should be in the order of £300 billion a year. The reason why it isn't is mostly because the US is not in the EU and we do not have truly free, unrestricted trade with the US and we do with the EU. | |||
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"Ahhhh don't go, don't leave us ....." After perving your photos I was actually arriving ... | |||
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" Never mind the USA, China and India and especially the rump EU will be queuing up to fuck us over. In a world of large trading blocks, we are about to walk away from the biggest of them all and become a relative minnow. The 5th largest (soon to be the 4th) economy in the world. The 1st most powerful in 'Soft Power'. A seat at the UN security Council. 2nd largest contributor to NATO. A world leader in Financial services and Satellite technologies. That is some 'minnow' you have there. We are such a minnow that China asked us to be the centre for international trading of their currency and we now lead the Asia Investment Bank. We are such a minnow that the USA trades £ Billions every month with us. They are our biggest export market and they trade the same level with us. When we take out the EU enforced 10% Tariff their goods will be much cheaper here. Oh and we are their biggest external investor as they are with us. And given India is being fucked over by the EU every day in Tariffs and prohibitions when we leave they will be happy to drop their 117% Tariff on Scotch Whisky and we will sell far more to one of the biggest Whisky markets in the world. Oh and remind me who owns Jaguar Land Rover? Who tried to make our steel works viable but failed because of EU driven environment taxes? Inward investment? It seems those of us in the Brexit side have far more belief and hope for our country's future than those in the Remain side.... " As already said, the level of trade between the UK and the US should be in the order of £300 billion a year to compare with the level of trade we do with EU, it's actually $56 billion. The steel industry has been hit by environment taxes but those are bot EU imposed, if they were then German, French and the rest of the EU's steal industry would be paying them to, and they don't. | |||
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" UK trade with US $56 billion a year in a market of 350 million people UK trade with EU £510 billion a year in a market of 500 million people. What ever dollar to pound rate you use our total trade with the EU is well over 10 times bigger than our total trade with the US. All things being equal UK/US trade should be in the order of £300 billion a year. The reason why it isn't is mostly because the US is not in the EU and we do not have truly free, unrestricted trade with the US and we do with the EU. " ..and the 10% EU Tariff we have to charge on US imports in no way deters trade with the USA then? I think it does. I was responding to the point that the USA would 'fuck us over' as would China and India and my argument was we are not some 'minnow' as described. Our trade with the USA is hindered by our being in the EU just as it is hindered in the rest of the world and yet we trade more outside the EU! Indeed the value of EU trade on the world has halved in 30 years. And regardless of volumes our trade with the USA is pretty much in balance so mutually beneficial. Unlike our trade with the EU which costs us £61 Bn a year in deficit terms. | |||
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"...Addendum on US trade... Our mutual trade with the USA in 2015 was some $114 Million ....." Wow, that was a bad year! | |||
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"...Addendum on US trade... Our mutual trade with the USA in 2015 was some $114 Million ..... Wow, that was a bad year! "That was what you call an 'oops' moment ... and now corrected ... Sorry and nicely spotted .. | |||
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" Daniel Hannan Tory MEP slagged off the NHS to the American media as it wasn't free market enough for him. Leave campaign lies constantly as they know the economic chaos that will ensue needs bullshit to confuse us. Well well well. dig up a 7 year old story and quote it out of context .... Shall we look at what Jeremy Corbyn said about the EU only last June when he was after the leader's job? Or what he said when he used to be an honest campaigning MP? I suspect that is far more hypocritical than anything Hannen could cook up ... he now thinks that unlimited immigration is wonderful! And then we get to the liar in chief Cameron. A man I helped elect and who I now despise with a loathing for his lies and manipulations of the truth. Cameron: We are better off inside and changing the EU ... Juncker today: "British voters have to know there will be no kind of any renegotiation. We have concluded a deal with the prime minister, he got the maximum he could receive, we gave the maximum we could give." Cameron: It will take years to negotiate a trade deal... Markus Kerber Head of the German CBI (BDI) today: said his organisation would make the case against such measures. "any introduction of tariffs would be regression to times we thought we'd left behind in the 1970s. Imposing trade barriers, imposing protectionist measures between our two countries ..... would be a very, very foolish thing in the 21st Century" Cameron: Turkey will never join the EU... (despite it being Government policy) EU today: "The EU will open membership talks with Turkey on June 30th" So Hannen gobbed off 7 years ago. Last time I looked he wasn't even an MP let alone a Minister. But now we have the Prime Minister and the Leader of the Opposition totally misleading us to stop us leaving..." How you have the bareface to call anyone a liar and then lie in your own post just beggars belief. The truth is only the truth if it's the full truth. Juncker was talking about the possibility of Britain getting a better deal if we left than we have now. Juncker actually said: Out is out, And the UK would not get a better deal than the one already negotiated by Prime Minister David Cameron (sic: if we leave). I have to add that the British policymakers and the British voters have to know there will be no kind of any renegotiation. We have concluded a deal with the prime minister, he got the maximum he could receive, we gave the maximum we could give. So there will be no kind of renegotiation, nor on the agreement we found in February, nor as far as any kind of treaty negotiations are concerned. Out is out. Here's the full article with the full context. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36599300 | |||
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" UK trade with US $56 billion a year in a market of 350 million people UK trade with EU £510 billion a year in a market of 500 million people. What ever dollar to pound rate you use our total trade with the EU is well over 10 times bigger than our total trade with the US. All things being equal UK/US trade should be in the order of £300 billion a year. The reason why it isn't is mostly because the US is not in the EU and we do not have truly free, unrestricted trade with the US and we do with the EU. ..and the 10% EU Tariff we have to charge on US imports in no way deters trade with the USA then? I think it does. " I don't think a 10% tariff really explains a difference in trade volume by a factor of 10 but, if it does, then we definitely can't afford to trade with tariffs under WTO rules with the EU and consequently reduce trade to similar levels. The reason why trade is less with the US than the EU is because there is no common regulation between the UK and the US and no common arbitrator to remove hidden barriers to trade " I was responding to the point that the USA would 'fuck us over' as would China and India and my argument was we are not some 'minnow' as described. Our trade with the USA is hindered by our being in the EU just as it is hindered in the rest of the world and yet we trade more outside the EU! Indeed the value of EU trade on the world has halved in 30 years. " The EU does not hinder trade between the UK and the US or the world; our trade with the US and the world is about what would be expected and inline with other advanced trading nations. However are trade with the EU is higher. EU does not hinder our trade with the rest of the world, it enhances our trade with the EU. The value of EU trade has not halved over the last 30 years, it's actually gone up by about 2% a year. The share of world trade that the EU has has gone down but that's not because EU trade has decreased but because other parts of the world have grown quicker. Also, while the amount we export to the EU has gone down from about 55% to 45% the value of that trade has gone up. Intra EU trade over the last 5 years has gone up by 5% a year, this during one of the worst recessions ever. " And regardless of volumes our trade with the USA is pretty much in balance so mutually beneficial. Unlike our trade with the EU which costs us £61 Bn a year in deficit terms." | |||
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"...Addendum on US trade... Our mutual trade with the USA in 2015 was some $114 Million ..... Wow, that was a bad year!
That was what you call an 'oops' moment ... and now corrected ... Sorry and nicely spotted .. "I'll accept that figure but it's still 5 times lower than it should be if it was at the same level as our trade with the EU. | |||
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"Just out of interest... Whichever way the vote goes! I think it is 'a given,' that the whole process has been rushed and flawed! Where would we stand 'constitutional' wise, if the losing side appealed through the courts that it had not been a democratic process! Or for want of a better phrase, the public had not been given an unbiased and objective report in voting on a decision of such magnitude! It would make an interesting court case." Unlikely but what if it is a draw? | |||
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"Just out of interest... Whichever way the vote goes! I think it is 'a given,' that the whole process has been rushed and flawed! Where would we stand 'constitutional' wise, if the losing side appealed through the courts that it had not been a democratic process! Or for want of a better phrase, the public had not been given an unbiased and objective report in voting on a decision of such magnitude! It would make an interesting court case.Unlikely but what if it is a draw?" Even more interesting.... | |||
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"If you want to be British vote out if you do not care vote in." You mean we weren't British before?!  | |||
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"I know the EU has given us some lovely weather at the moment, but if we left would we lose continental quilts? come the winter.....or is it back to those 'itchy' wooly blankets??? "And Woolly jumpers for goal posts in the premier league too | |||
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" And regardless of volumes our trade with the USA is pretty much in balance so mutually beneficial. Unlike our trade with the EU which costs us £61 Bn a year in deficit terms." Maybe, just maybe, we all like olives and oranges and camemberts and riesling and toblerones more than continental Europe likes pukka pies? | |||
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"How you have the bareface to call anyone a liar and then lie in your own post just beggars belief. The truth is only the truth if it's the full truth. " I have never ever called anyone a liar on here and certainly not yourself. There is another contributor who dishes out the insults but I just try and say where I think people are wrong and quote alternatives. And when I am wrong I hold my hand up. AS I hev just above here .... In fact when your numbers have been suspect (as in trying to kid us that actual migration was only 40,000) I made comments like "I am sure that was a mistake" or "I know you wouldn't mislead people". Because that is the correct way to deal with a difference of fact. But do please go and quote me if you can find an example. As you say "The truth is only the truth if its the full truth". | |||
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"The EU does not hinder trade between the UK and the US or the world; our trade with the US and the world is about what would be expected and inline with other advanced trading nations." How can you say a disparity of rates for the UK and the USA of 7.5% and an upper rate of 10% does not hinder trade? And it is EU rules that create those rates and disparity. So if we agree a Tariff of 10% with the EU after we leave that will not affect trade? That is a different story to what you and your mate have been saying ... 'Trade Wars' and 'Brexit Tax' come to mind? " However are trade with the EU is higher. EU does not hinder our trade with the rest of the world, it enhances our trade with the EU." I just clearly showed that because the EU demands high import Tariffs into the EU that hinders trade. It makes countries less able or even willing to export to us and therefore reluctant to buy from us. Trade is a two way street. Unless you are the UK and in the EU in which case it is a £61 Bn a year exit of foreign currency. " The value of EU trade has not halved over the last 30 years, it's actually gone up by about 2% a year." I am sure you didn't intend to mislead but the historical fact is: "The share of world output accounted for by the 28 current members of the EU has fallen from 30% to 16.5% from 1980 to 2016." Source: https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-has-shrunk-percentage-world-economy/ And the critical fact is that as it has expanded from the 8 when we joined the EEC to the 28 of the EU its ability to compete and trade has diminished very substantially. And it STILL wants to expand.... " The share of world trade that the EU has has gone down but that's not because EU trade has decreased but because other parts of the world have grown quicker." In other words the EU for all its 'Single Market' and supposed benefits has failed to grow as well as other countries and areas who have not followed the federal socialist political model as exemplified by the EU? That means it is an economic failure. A basket case. When the average unemployment rate is over 10% and the unemployment rate for under 25s is some 50% THAT are failing your citizens. Until recently the only continent that had lower growth was Antarctica.... But the penguins were still very happy birds ... | |||
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"I know the odds are astronomical, but what the hell would we do in the even of a draw?? "Penalty shootout between campaign leading lights. | |||
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" And regardless of volumes our trade with the USA is pretty much in balance so mutually beneficial. Unlike our trade with the EU which costs us £61 Bn a year in deficit terms. Maybe, just maybe, we all like olives and oranges and camemberts and riesling and toblerones more than continental Europe likes pukka pies?" They like our money, they just don't like us. At present they'll be more concerned with who is going to pick up the contributions short fall if we vote to leave. One thing is for sure, it won't be the new member states they're soon to be welcoming into the fold, they'll be arriving rubbing their thumbs and forefingers together | |||
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"This subject has to be the most boring thread so far on this swinging ! site. And your comment is the most "boring" and unwanted on this thread, if you don't want to read the post then don't! You chose to click on the subject, then read all the comments, then open your response page, then type out a message, then press send... Quite a lot of effort on your part considering its a "boring" post! " | |||
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"What ever you do VOTE LEAVE What ever you do VOTE REMAIN "Just vote each one counts which ever way it is | |||
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