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Orlando shootings

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

25 i heard?

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

There are no words to describe how horrible some humans can be.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

50 dead 53 injured the news is reporting

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

BBC news reported upto 50. So sad. Terrorists?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Seriously sad.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Awfull cunts and thats putting it mildly

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

Very sad..

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Police shot and killed gunman who has now been named.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"BBC news reported upto 50. So sad. Terrorists?

Not sure but speculation re radical Islam according to news sources on CNN.

Its just fucking awful whatever the motivation.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"BBC news reported upto 50. So sad. Terrorists?

Not sure but speculation re radical Islam according to news sources on CNN.

Its just fucking awful whatever the motivation."

"Mir Seddique, Mateen's father told NBC News, "this has nothing to do with religion." Seddique said his son got angry when he saw two men kissing in Miami a couple of months ago and thinks that may be related to the shooting."

Its all speculation at this point, of course.

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By *hoenixcouplexxCouple over a year ago

Leicestershire

A very high price the Americans are paying for their constitutional right to bare arms

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"BBC news reported upto 50. So sad. Terrorists?

Not sure but speculation re radical Islam according to news sources on CNN.

Its just fucking awful whatever the motivation.

Its all speculation at this point, of course. "

Exactly. They haven't discovered the reason yet so it is all speculation. It is horrible regardless.

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By *ancyDrewWoman over a year ago

Glasgow

you can bet when the police search his pc there will be gay porn on it.

Just such a tragedy for all those affected.

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By *anchestercubMan over a year ago

manchester & NI

LGBT folks are very at risk.

Extremism against us is very prevalent in many countries and amongst many communities.

I've read quite a bit about what's been going on in Poland with the right-wing government as it's Pride weekend there this weekend.

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By *olgateMan over a year ago

on the road to nowhere in particular

live coverage at the scene on Russia today channel 135 on free_iew

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By *anchestercubMan over a year ago

manchester & NI

"live coverage at the scene on Russia today channel 135 on free_iew "

I'm surprised RT aren't having a party at the news.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

IMAGINE:

If someone kicked of a petition for the USA to tighten gun control

and it went viral; the whole world signed it, millions & millions if signatures

if only;

I am sure someone has the ability and time to kick something like that off

my heart goes out to the families, losing a loved one is hell.

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By *oward1978Man over a year ago

Rotherham

This is beyond terrible. So sad

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"IMAGINE:

If someone kicked of a petition for the USA to tighten gun control

and it went viral; the whole world signed it, millions & millions if signatures

if only;

I am sure someone has the ability and time to kick something like that off

my heart goes out to the families, losing a loved one is hell."

Lots of people have tried it.

Turns out that most Americans dont want it though.

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By *olgateMan over a year ago

on the road to nowhere in particular

"live coverage at the scene on Russia today channel 135 on free_iew

I'm surprised RT aren't having a party at the news. "

Crass comment

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By *anchestercubMan over a year ago

manchester & NI

"live coverage at the scene on Russia today channel 135 on free_iew

I'm surprised RT aren't having a party at the news.

Crass comment "

But not misplaced.

Many many LGBT people are routinely beat up and killed in Russia.

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"IMAGINE:

If someone kicked of a petition for the USA to tighten gun control

and it went viral; the whole world signed it, millions & millions if signatures

if only;

I am sure someone has the ability and time to kick something like that off

my heart goes out to the families, losing a loved one is hell."

won't happen....

if nothing changed after aurora, colorado..... and nothing changed after virginia tech...... and nothing changed after sandy hook, connecticut........ then unfortunately nothing will change here....

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By *olgateMan over a year ago

on the road to nowhere in particular

"live coverage at the scene on Russia today channel 135 on free_iew

I'm surprised RT aren't having a party at the news.

Crass comment

But not misplaced.

Many many LGBT people are routinely beat up and killed in Russia."

What does that have to do with the price of fish?

People have been shot dead in a homophobic attack and you want to try and make cheap political shots.

People have died, show some respect to their memories

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By *anchestercubMan over a year ago

manchester & NI

"live coverage at the scene on Russia today channel 135 on free_iew

I'm surprised RT aren't having a party at the news.

Crass comment

But not misplaced.

Many many LGBT people are routinely beat up and killed in Russia.

What does that have to do with the price of fish?

People have been shot dead in a homophobic attack and you want to try and make cheap political shots.

People have died, show some respect to their memories "

It means homophobic attacks are more than just this one.

It wasn't a cheap political shot, it's about hatred and homophobia taking many forms, beyond one major incident in the news.

But I wouldn't expect you to understand.

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By *onyneMan over a year ago

Newcastle

This is just terrible.

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By *olgateMan over a year ago

on the road to nowhere in particular

"live coverage at the scene on Russia today channel 135 on free_iew

I'm surprised RT aren't having a party at the news.

Crass comment

But not misplaced.

Many many LGBT people are routinely beat up and killed in Russia.

What does that have to do with the price of fish?

People have been shot dead in a homophobic attack and you want to try and make cheap political shots.

People have died, show some respect to their memories

It means homophobic attacks are more than just this one.

It wasn't a cheap political shot, it's about hatred and homophobia taking many forms, beyond one major incident in the news.

But I wouldn't expect you to understand. "

I'm sure I won't be the only one to find your remarks highly offensive

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By *anchestercubMan over a year ago

manchester & NI

"live coverage at the scene on Russia today channel 135 on free_iew

I'm surprised RT aren't having a party at the news.

Crass comment

But not misplaced.

Many many LGBT people are routinely beat up and killed in Russia.

What does that have to do with the price of fish?

People have been shot dead in a homophobic attack and you want to try and make cheap political shots.

People have died, show some respect to their memories

It means homophobic attacks are more than just this one.

It wasn't a cheap political shot, it's about hatred and homophobia taking many forms, beyond one major incident in the news.

But I wouldn't expect you to understand.

I'm sure I won't be the only one to find your remarks highly offensive "

From crass to highly offensive? I care not!

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By *yrdwomanWoman over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

"IMAGINE:

If someone kicked of a petition for the USA to tighten gun control

and it went viral; the whole world signed it, millions & millions if signatures

if only;

I am sure someone has the ability and time to kick something like that off

my heart goes out to the families, losing a loved one is hell."

Why do you think the US should do what the rest of the world want, when you think the UK shouldn't do what a considerable amount of its own citizens want.

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By *olgateMan over a year ago

on the road to nowhere in particular

"live coverage at the scene on Russia today channel 135 on free_iew

I'm surprised RT aren't having a party at the news.

Crass comment

But not misplaced.

Many many LGBT people are routinely beat up and killed in Russia.

What does that have to do with the price of fish?

People have been shot dead in a homophobic attack and you want to try and make cheap political shots.

People have died, show some respect to their memories

It means homophobic attacks are more than just this one.

It wasn't a cheap political shot, it's about hatred and homophobia taking many forms, beyond one major incident in the news.

But I wouldn't expect you to understand.

I'm sure I won't be the only one to find your remarks highly offensive

From crass to highly offensive? I care not! "

That much is obvious

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It's a dreadful situation....

I don't know what else too say...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

With all due respects to those killed and injured and heartfelt condolences to their families there is, sadly, only one comment to make.

"Same shit different day in Good Ol' US of A"

When Americans shoot and kill on average 80 other Americans a day and no one does a thing to stop it I am sorry my sympathy just isn't there. And when there are those who actively promote gun ownership despite the results for all to see then I am ashamed to say I couldn't actually care less.

We have proved gun laws work. So has Australia and Canada and many others. The USA has this fixation / love affair with guns. That is OK until they put bullets in and fire them.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Can't help think this plays nicely into Donald's hands.

What a world we live in where two blokes kissing may have triggered a massacre.

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By *iss_tressWoman over a year ago

London

"Can't help think this plays nicely into Donald's hands.

What a world we live in where two blokes kissing may have triggered a massacre.

Personally think it's something his dad just came up with as I'm sure living in Florida he'd be used to seeing men kissing!

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By *iss_tressWoman over a year ago

London

"With all due respects to those killed and injured and heartfelt condolences to their families there is, sadly, only one comment to make.

"Same shit different day in Good Ol' US of A"

We have proved gun laws work. So has Australia and Canada and many others. The USA has this fixation / love affair with guns. That is OK until they put bullets in and fire them."

I have to admit, pretty much sums up my thoughts.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It's a terrible tragedy but I'm afraid _abio is right, nothing will change from this incident, Americans love their guns and their willing to die for them.

That leaves you open to some nut job with crazed _iews exacting they're revenge. Very tragic

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By *ophieslutTV/TS over a year ago

Central

Is this getting much coverage in the UK? I'm in the US - should I let people know I'm OK?

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

So very sad X

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By *ancyDrewWoman over a year ago

Glasgow

It's certainly getting coverage all over Facebook

Gov of Texas has said 'Reap what you sow" - FUCKING SICKENING

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It's certainly getting coverage all over Facebook

Gov of Texas has said 'Reap what you sow" - FUCKING SICKENING"

It's vile isn't it? At this stage the gunman is being labelled a terrorist linked to ISIS seemingly based on nothing more than his religion (he wasn;t known to security services) but those comments show that extremists come in all religions

So so sad for all involved

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

won't happen....

if nothing changed after aurora, colorado..... and nothing changed after virginia tech...... and nothing changed after sandy hook, connecticut........ then unfortunately nothing will change here...."

I truly believe President Barack Obama has genuinely tried to impose stricter gun rules but as you say the voice of America has to be behind him,

never say never, we can live in hope

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

won't happen....

if nothing changed after aurora, colorado..... and nothing changed after virginia tech...... and nothing changed after sandy hook, connecticut........ then unfortunately nothing will change here....

I truly believe President Barack Obama has genuinely tried to impose stricter gun rules but as you say the voice of America has to be behind him,

never say never, we can live in hope"

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

won't happen....

if nothing changed after aurora, colorado..... and nothing changed after virginia tech...... and nothing changed after sandy hook, connecticut........ then unfortunately nothing will change here....

I truly believe President Barack Obama has genuinely tried to impose stricter gun rules but as you say the voice of America has to be behind him,

never say never, we can live in hope"
.

The voice of America?.

Gun control has been in the majority points in polling in the USA for twenty years!!.

Most Americans want gun control

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By *ophieslutTV/TS over a year ago

Central

Obama has been unfortunate, having republicans oppose his moves to change laws, many of those people funded by the gun lobby. He's been a compromising President, unlike those in opposition to him, who are just obstructive.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Is this getting much coverage in the UK? I'm in the US - should I let people know I'm OK? "
.

It's a big place, it's like a gun massacre happening in Italy and getting worried for someone in England.

The important thing to remember is... This type of stuff rarely occurs in Canada and yet has way more guns than the USA, guns don't kill crazy people do.... Stay away from countries with lots of crazy people in them

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

if criminals want guns they will get them even in this country

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By *ophieslutTV/TS over a year ago

Central

"Is this getting much coverage in the UK? I'm in the US - should I let people know I'm OK? .

It's a big place, it's like a gun massacre happening in Italy and getting worried for someone in England.

I'd been heading to Orlando area but held off due to the weather. I appreciate how big a country it is, having crossed it many times.

I was thinking more of elderly relatives and whether they may have ser something of it in the uk. Maybe it would hit the late night news, when they're in bed?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Is this getting much coverage in the UK? I'm in the US - should I let people know I'm OK? .

It's a big place, it's like a gun massacre happening in Italy and getting worried for someone in England.

I'd been heading to Orlando area but held off due to the weather. I appreciate how big a country it is, having crossed it many times.

I was thinking more of elderly relatives and whether they may have ser something of it in the uk. Maybe it would hit the late night news, when they're in bed?"
.

Whats wrong with the weather in Orlando?.

There's been coverage of it on bbc, the shooting I mean not the weather

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By *ezebelWoman over a year ago

North of The Wall - youll need your vest

Claimed by IS and the gunman is known to FBI according to the briefing on Sky News

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

"It's certainly getting coverage all over Facebook

Gov of Texas has said 'Reap what you sow" - FUCKING SICKENING"

that's disgusting, vile..

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By *ancyDrewWoman over a year ago

Glasgow

Trump is getting in on the same kinda action basically saying 'told ya so, Muslims are evil'

This is 2016. I don't get it. Am increasingly more and more upset today.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Trump is getting in on the same kinda action basically saying 'told ya so, Muslims are evil'

This is 2016. I don't get it. Am increasingly more and more upset today."
.

Can I ask you a question.

Why do you think he did it?

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By *ancyDrewWoman over a year ago

Glasgow

the shooter? I really would say that he had conflicting feelings over his sexuality.

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By *yrdwomanWoman over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

On a more heartwarming note, people are queuing up to donate blood.

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By *ancyDrewWoman over a year ago

Glasgow

"On a more heartwarming note, people are queuing up to donate blood.

except they don't want blood from gay men. ffs.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Tragic events. Inhumane.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"the shooter? I really would say that he had conflicting feelings over his sexuality. "
.

That's really worrying then as some men on here also have that problem

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By *yrdwomanWoman over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

"On a more heartwarming note, people are queuing up to donate blood.

except they don't want blood from gay men. ffs. "

Its the same over here.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"On a more heartwarming note, people are queuing up to donate blood.

except they don't want blood from gay men. ffs.

Its the same over here."
.

I thought they took blood from gay men now providing you haven't had sex for 8 months or something like that

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By *adyboy-DaddyCouple over a year ago

Andover

"It's a terrible tragedy but I'm afraid _abio is right, nothing will change from this incident, Americans love their guns and their willing to die for them."

Almost agree apart from that I think Americans love their guns so much they are willing to let others die for them.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

50 people dead was the last count. Absolutely disgusting that this still happens now.

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By *northernsoulMan over a year ago

Manchester

I despair at the last couple of days.

Hate will use any excuse. It transcends religion, culture and nation... but, without coming across like some out-of-touch hippy, so does love and compassion.

More people need to learn that.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"On a more heartwarming note, people are queuing up to donate blood.

except they don't want blood from gay men. ffs.

Its the same over here..

I thought they took blood from gay men now providing you haven't had sex for 8 months or something like that"

Aslong as you haven't had unprotected sex. Which is rediculous. I know far more straight men and women with an STD than my fellow LGBTQ bretheren.

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By *oveslickingpussy999Man over a year ago

ealing

Its just going to give trump more votes and a reason for people to vote for him now

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By *ancyDrewWoman over a year ago

Glasgow

"On a more heartwarming note, people are queuing up to donate blood.

except they don't want blood from gay men. ffs.

Its the same over here..

I thought they took blood from gay men now providing you haven't had sex for 8 months or something like that

Aslong as you haven't had unprotected sex. Which is rediculous. I know far more straight men and women with an STD than my fellow LGBTQ bretheren. "

HIV is on the rise within the str8 community, namely the over 50s. They were young in the 80s and it was portrayed that only gay men got HIV and since education has been so very very lax since, the numbers are rising.

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By *northernsoulMan over a year ago

Manchester

"Its just going to give trump more votes and a reason for people to vote for him now "

I'd love to believe Americans are more level-headed than that... and then I remember they voted Bush Jr in for two terms.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"On a more heartwarming note, people are queuing up to donate blood.

except they don't want blood from gay men. ffs.

Its the same over here..

I thought they took blood from gay men now providing you haven't had sex for 8 months or something like that

Aslong as you haven't had unprotected sex. Which is rediculous. I know far more straight men and women with an STD than my fellow LGBTQ bretheren.

Exactly. All I was told in sex education was "use a condom or just take the pill girls". Yes, we had a talk about STDs, and the numbers are shocking. Three towns over from me is Wales "HIV Capital" where so many people have the disease and are just spreading it. So glad it is classed as first degree murder if you have it and knowingly pass it on.

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By *ancyDrewWoman over a year ago

Glasgow

I have to say I am not. It's a complex issue. As a poz person I never want to be in the situation where something like this could come to court. That said, with meds, it is SO unlikely.

The biggest worry we all have today is those who do not get tested. They are the ones passing this on, and the ones dying. It is disgusting that this issue has been glossed over.

I feel for those who want to donate blood to their loved ones in Orlando but are being refused.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Latest update. ISIS claim the action was one of their 'fighters'.

FBI confess they know about links of the gunman to ISIS.

More will follow.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I read somewhere that the reason Americans are able to bare arms is because they had a bill of rights passed should the government revolt U.S citizens would be armed and able to defend themselves against it. if humans were a smart as we all seem to think then guns would be a rare occurrence. Why do we insist on storing and stocking weapons of mass destruction. We haven't evolved, we are still primitive and have a lot of changes to make before we finally accept we are just creatures of the earth and this planet belongs to everyone of any race, gender, sexuality and species. No trust in this world.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Why stockpile weapons of mass destruction?

Because violence is the ultimate authority and your ability to impose it in a greater quantity over another is what gives you power.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS over a year ago

Central

"On a more heartwarming note, people are queuing up to donate blood.

except they don't want blood from gay men. ffs.

Its the same over here..

I thought they took blood from gay men now providing you haven't had sex for 8 months or something like that

Aslong as you haven't had unprotected sex. Which is rediculous. I know far more straight men and women with an STD than my fellow LGBTQ bretheren.

We should have Truvada as prophylactic treatment via the NHS, to prevent people from being infected. Even condoms are not failsafe.

Treating infection for life is a huge order more than preventative costs and barbaric in comparison.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"On a more heartwarming note, people are queuing up to donate blood.

except they don't want blood from gay men. ffs.

Its the same over here..

I thought they took blood from gay men now providing you haven't had sex for 8 months or something like that

Aslong as you haven't had unprotected sex. Which is rediculous. I know far more straight men and women with an STD than my fellow LGBTQ bretheren.

We should have Truvada as prophylactic treatment via the NHS, to prevent people from being infected. Even condoms are not failsafe.

Treating infection for life is a huge order more than preventative costs and barbaric in comparison. "

Rhey donr take blood from gay men because gay men make up 50% of new HIV infections but below 5% of the population.

So by excluding a very small number of potential donors they cut the risk of a infection at the undetectable stage slipling through by half.

That is a sensible and rational move.

In regards to prophylactic treatment of HIV it sounds like a good idea but fails on two fronts.

1) human nature tell somone this pill makes you immune to HIV and a small but significant number will likley go and bareback half of soho and rapidly spread other STDs.

2) Drug protocol it's fairly new we arent certain what the long term effects of prolonged usage are yet so i could be a time bomb waiting to happen. And also given how terrible people are at reguarly taking medication it could potentially lead to breading a resistant strain of HIV by people not keeping the concentration high enough.

As it stands it makes more sense to keep it as ab emergancy next day treatment. But then a lot of peole wont go to the GUM clinic after a BB one night stand jist incase.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"On a more heartwarming note, people are queuing up to donate blood.

except they don't want blood from gay men. ffs.

Its the same over here..

I thought they took blood from gay men now providing you haven't had sex for 8 months or something like that

Aslong as you haven't had unprotected sex. Which is rediculous. I know far more straight men and women with an STD than my fellow LGBTQ bretheren.

We should have Truvada as prophylactic treatment via the NHS, to prevent people from being infected. Even condoms are not failsafe.

Treating infection for life is a huge order more than preventative costs and barbaric in comparison. "

Condoms rate as 98% effective Truvada as low as 40% depending on dosage, timings and risk factors.

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By *abes in the woodWoman over a year ago

wales

So so sad

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By *weetChariotMan over a year ago

High Wycombe

Why do they insist on naming the gun man and making him a martyr and not making the victims.

No wonder these sick people do this, they become a known name.

I think there should be a law that the perpetrators are never named but the victims are.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Latest update. ISIS claim the action was one of their 'fighters'.

FBI confess they know about links of the gunman to ISIS.

More will follow."

They can't keep an eye on everyone. It annoys me when the papers report that the authorities 'knew' of the person. They are also tracking thousands of other people.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Latest update. ISIS claim the action was one of their 'fighters'.

FBI confess they know about links of the gunman to ISIS.

More will follow.

They can't keep an eye on everyone. It annoys me when the papers report that the authorities 'knew' of the person. They are also tracking thousands of other people.

the TSA had 70 employees who are on the terror watch list a recent audit found

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Why do they insist on naming the gun man and making him a martyr and not making the victims.

No wonder these sick people do this, they become a known name.

I think there should be a law that the perpetrators are never named but the victims are.

Because they do not name victims till all families have been informed.

You don't want to to find out your son is dead on the 6 o clock news do you?

Also goven the nature of the club it might just be common decency to help protect the victims private lives.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Latest update. ISIS claim the action was one of their 'fighters'.

FBI confess they know about links of the gunman to ISIS.

More will follow.

They can't keep an eye on everyone. It annoys me when the papers report that the authorities 'knew' of the person. They are also tracking thousands of other people.

the TSA had 70 employees who are on the terror watch list a recent audit found

Amazingly, though, even if Mateen had been kept on the Terrorist Screening Database, he would still have been able to acquire the LEGALLY PURCHASED ASSAULT WEAPONS he used to gun down 100+ innocent people.

Apparently, the US Gun Lobby and its hardcore allies within the Republican Party believe that even being flagged as a POTENTIAL TERRORIST should not impede upon a Citizen's right to own a LETHAL WEAPON.

They fetishise the archaic and outdated 2nd Amendment to such a degree that they believe that the right to own a MILITARY GRADE FIREARM is more important than the right to feel safe from attack.

I don't deny that the majority of gun owners are LAW ABIDING CITIZENS. I accept that if you are a sportsman, huntsman or farmer, it is reasonable for you to own a pistol or a shotgun (such guns are legal in the UK and France.)

However, what possible reason does a civilian have for owning an M4 Assault Rifle or a M1 Thompson SMG? The NRA claims that these can be used by hunters and target shooters. However, these are not sporting guns or hunting weapons: they are weapons of war specifically designed for use by LAW ENFORCEMENT and ARMED FORCES PERSONNEL.

More ridiculous is the NRA's claim that the M4 is 'the perfect gun for home defence.' Of course, why use an easy to carry, easy to use, easily concealable pistol to take out an intruder with a single shot; when you can look cool and charge in like John Rambo, spraying 40 or 50 rounds from a big, loud, unwieldy assault weapon?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Latest update. ISIS claim the action was one of their 'fighters'.

FBI confess they know about links of the gunman to ISIS.

More will follow.

They can't keep an eye on everyone. It annoys me when the papers report that the authorities 'knew' of the person. They are also tracking thousands of other people.

the TSA had 70 employees who are on the terror watch list a recent audit found

They fetishise the archaic and outdated 2nd Amendment to such a degree that they believe that the right to own a MILITARY GRADE FIREARM is more important than the right to feel safe from attack.

Of course it shouldn't impinge upon that right.

Innocent untill proven guilty is a major corner stone of our society.

And one most of us would never give up no matter how many SHOUTY CAPITALS people use.

The rest of your post continues to show ignorance as aside from old grandfathered items that sell for a fortune you couldnt buy those items now.

And the last paragraph again is terrible and shows ignornace to the law and how firearms and people work.

Personaly I'd go with a shotgun though, safer for the nighbours, instantly threatening (no one is charging a shotgun) and shot will counter your inherently appaling aim in such an unfamiliar and terrifying situation.

But no being on a watch list should not affect your rights.

I could accuse you of being a potential sex offender because you have almost certainly breached the UK's "extreme pornography" laws by accessing porn on line.

Should you be banned from any activities because of this potential?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Of course it shouldn't impinge upon that right.

Innocent untill proven guilty is a major corner stone of our society.

Indeed it is, but denying someone the right to own a firearm because they are suspected of posing a threat to the public IS NOT THE SAME as convicting them of a criminal offence; any more than denying someone the right to drive a car because they haven't got a licence or because they are intoxicated by alcohol or drugs.

And one most of us would never give up no matter how many SHOUTY CAPITALS people use.

You call it 'Shouty Capitals' if you like; anything to deflect or distract attention and avoid the argument.

A person with reasonable levels of reading comprehension would interpret it as standing in for ITALICS, EMBOLDENED TEXT or UNDERLINING in order to emphasise particular Key Points.

"The rest of your post continues to show ignorance as aside from old grandfathered items that sell for a fortune you couldnt buy those items now."

Actually, the M4 assault rifle or AR-14 is THE PRECISE FIREARM used in the Orlando shooting; while the M1 Thompson SMG - far from being a 'grandfathered item' - is still widely available for purchase in America.

"I could accuse you of being a potential sex offender because you have almost certainly breached the UK's "extreme pornography" laws by accessing porn on line."

Really? So you think that because I've watched a few videos of lesbian sex or mass orgies, I must also have amassed a collection of pornography featuring GBH, necrophilia and bestiality? Very logical I must say. Watching pornography does not make you a potential sex-offender.

By contrast, being known to the police and intelligence services as having sympathies with terrorist organisations should serve are pretty reasonable evidence for suggesting that you are not safe to own a firearm.

As for me displaying 'ignorance of the law,' you seem to be forgetting the key difference between AMERICAN and BRITISH gun legislation.

In America, it is perfectly legal for a citizen to buy assault weapons, fully-automatic, heavy calibre machine-guns, and SMGs.

In Britain, France, and most other European states all such guns are illegal.

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By *illwill69uMan over a year ago

moston

""Mir Seddique, Mateen's father told NBC News, "this has nothing to do with religion." Seddique said his son got angry when he saw two men kissing in Miami a couple of months ago and thinks that may be related to the shooting.""

How can any reputable news outlet broadcast such an obvious lie without pointing out that in Islam homosexuality is an abomination that must be punished by death.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

@Wolf_Ryder - since you claim that 'aside from old grandfathered items that sell for a fortune you couldnt buy items like the M4, perhaps you could explained how the orlando shooter bought just such a gun LEGALLY only a week before the attach...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"In America, it is perfectly legal for a citizen to buy assault weapons, fully-automatic, heavy calibre machine-guns, and SMGs"

I must interject here and say that it always surprises me when people from other countries talk about what is "perfectly legal" ... "in America" when they discuss something almost completely dependent on state law, not federal law.

The availability and accessibility of fully automatic weapons in the US is not like finding a Hersheys Bar in a candy shop. I can't find myself in midtown Manhattan and buy an Ak47 at the corner bodega. While there is a federal right to keep and bear arms, that right does not extend to fully automatic weapons everywhere in the US. It is a fallacy to imply that it is perfectly legal across the US to own a fully automatic weapon. Once you get past the second amendment it is fallacious to talk about ANY gun regulation as being "American."

The rest is a general statement, not aimed at the poster quoted above: Now, I am someone who hates guns. If it were up to me we would overturn the second amendment. I feel strongly about this. But it also pains me that 50 Americans have died an instead of mourning there is this "blame their own culture" discussion. When there were terrorist attacks elsewhere we mourned before we blamed. Perhaps those 50 dead Americans deserve the same. Does a discussion on guns need to happen? Of course. But I personally don't think this is the right time for it. And that is coming from an American who would ban guns tomorrow if she could.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"A very high price the Americans are paying for their constitutional right to bare arms

Precisely - and this is the crux of the matter!

There will, sadly, ALWAYS be intolerance/hate for those some see as 'different' - whether that's a different religion or a different sexuality!

However - how easily you can access destructive weapons makes the difference between brandishing a kitchen knife on one or two people - or using a whole arsenal of weapons to massacre 50!

Sadly - I doubt the U.S. Will ever change - so atrocities will always happen there!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"In America, it is perfectly legal for a citizen to buy assault weapons, fully-automatic, heavy calibre machine-guns, and SMGs

Sorry - hadn't read this before I posted the above comment!

No doubt at all that the dead should be mourned - tragic!! X

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

FYI

M16 is the oldest of the three introduced in the 60's and used by the U.S. Military ever since Vietnam. Usually has a longer barrel a longer barrel than the M4 and has a fixed stock. The M16 usually fires three round burst and semi automatic.

The M4 is a shorter version of the M16. It has a collapsible stock and usually fires fully automatic. Both the M16 and M4 shoot the 5.56 caliber round.

The AR-15 is the civilian version of the M4/M16. It shoots semi automatic (unless you have proper licensing) and has an interchangeable receiver which you can change calibers

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"When there were terrorist attacks elsewhere we mourned before we blamed. Perhaps those 50 dead Americans deserve the same. Does a discussion on guns need to happen? Of course. But I personally don't think this is the right time for it."

This isn't simply a 'blame their own culture' discussion. The fact remains that this was not simply an out-of-the-blue terrorist attack by some random gunman; it was an attack carried out by an American Citizen armed with weapons bought legally from an ordinary gun store.

Trump is standing there loudly proclaiming 'I Told You So' and using the tragedy to promote his _iews on immigration, as if the gunman had simply just stepped off the boat at Ellis Island.

Time and again, American Citizens have been killed en masse by gunmen armed with legally-purchased, legally-owned firearms; and time and again, Trump and his gun-loving cronies have pulled out all the stops to prevent even the most simple gun reforms being passed.

Why? Because of an amendment to the constitution passed because of the needs of the Revolutionary War; one which has little or no relevance to life in modern America. Modern America no more requires the protection of an armed citizen militia any more than Britain, France or Germany.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The AR-15 is the civilian version of the M4/M16."

Your point? I said as much when I pointed out that the AR-15 started out as a Military Firearm.

Under British Law, the AR-15 is illegal to own unless it's a centerfire in a manually-operated straight pull configuration, or a semi-automatic chambered to fire a .22 rimfire cartridge.

Under American Law, the AR-15 is perfectly legal to own, even if set up to fire the 5.56x45 NATO in a semi-auto or full-auto configuration.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I don't think banning guns would have made a difference at all in this case, if you know the right people you can still get one in countries where guns are not legal

I'm guessing somebody like this man would have obtained a gun regardless

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

"Latest update. ISIS claim the action was one of their 'fighters'.

FBI confess they know about links of the gunman to ISIS.

More will follow."

Breaking news on sky news the FBI said the gunman made a phone call to police before he carried out the attack declaring his allegiance to Islamic State.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Trump is standing there loudly proclaiming 'I Told You So' and using the tragedy to promote his _iews on immigration, as if the gunman had simply just stepped off the boat at Ellis Island.

There is a larger issue here than just guns. Other countries, like Switzerland for example, have a prevalence of guns and don't have the same problems with them that America has. And that is coming from someone who is anti-2nd amendment. The shooters in the Paris attacks weren't immigrants, they were EU citizens, and they got weapons because they were set on committing the crime. So the relevance of this person being an American citizen does not mislay my comparison of how we are discussing these different attacks. Perhaps in this instance the guns weren't the biggest problem.

But I'm not getting pulled into a discussion about gun culture or gun laws with someone who doesn't understand either from an American point of _iew. I will mourn those 50 dead Americans and for the moment forestall my part in the blaming of American gun culture for this specific attack.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"A very high price the Americans are paying for their constitutional right to bare arms

I think some point this will be changed.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I must interject here and say that it always surprises me when people from other countries talk about what is "perfectly legal in America" when they discuss something almost completely dependent on state law, not federal law.

It a fallacy to imply that it is perfectly legal across the US to own a fully automatic weapon. Once you get past the second amendment it is fallacious to talk about ANY gun regulation as being "American.""

The fact is that while gun laws do vary from State to State, the 2nd Amendment makes it possible for guns to be purchased far more easily than in other countries. Pro-gun lobbyists in the US repeatedly cite British and French gun legislation as 'draconian,' highlighting them as an affront to the liberty of the citizen.

While it is true that British and French gun legislation does not prevent these kinds of acts of terrorism - the Paris shooting are proof enough of that fact - mass shootings occur in America with far more regularity, and with far greater loss of life.

Obviously, the victims of this tragedy and their families must be allowed to grieve, but the debate going on here was sparked the moment that TRUMP had the nerve to open his mouth and say 'I told you so; I was right; you should have listened to me.'

Trump and his gun-loving cronies are the ones who should have 'listened.' For years, the American people have been calling for tighter gun controls to be enacted; time and again, the Republicans have put their reliance on NRA funding above the wishes of the majority of the people.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"A very high price the Americans are paying for their constitutional right to bare arms

I think some point this will be changed."

As a previous poster stated: "if nothing changed after aurora, colorado...and nothing changed after virginia tech...and nothing changed after sandy hook, connecticut...then unfortunately nothing will change here..."

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Those text messages sent by a son to his mother are terrifying and heartbreaking.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"A very high price the Americans are paying for their constitutional right to bare arms

I think some point this will be changed."

I spoke to a friend who lives in America who says, even if there were a ban on guns, there would still be guns available somehow.

It is also a cultural thing for a lot of Americans, sadly.

One most of us find really odd.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I spoke to a friend who lives in America who says, even if there were a ban on guns, there would still be guns available somehow.

It is also a cultural thing for a lot of Americans, sadly.

One most of us find really odd."

No one is saying that banning guns will eliminate them completely.

As I said, Britain and France still experience occasional mass shootings like Hungerford and Dunblane, and terrorist attacks like that which took place in Paris.

However, in the aftermath of such events, our governments take steps to put in place what they deem to be 'reasonable restrictions' on gun ownership. They do not kowtow to an antiquated constitutional right to bear arms which no longer has any relevance in modern society.

In Britain, the right to bear arms was formerly protected by the Bill of Rights of 1689; however, only Protestants could own guns. Following the passing of the Firearms Act of 1920, several attempts were made to regulate gun control, and both the Hungerford and Dunblane Massacres led to the Firearms Act being amended.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

"A very high price the Americans are paying for their constitutional right to bare arms

I think some point this will be changed.

sadly this..

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I spoke to a friend who lives in America who says, even if there were a ban on guns, there would still be guns available somehow.

It is also a cultural thing for a lot of Americans, sadly.

One most of us find really odd.

No one is saying that banning guns will eliminate them completely.

As I said, Britain and France still experience occasional mass shootings like Hungerford and Dunblane, and terrorist attacks like that which took place in Paris.

The shooter was said to be bipolar.

I wonder how much help he had sought or indeed was offered.

We can only guess.

To think it might have been prevented with good mental health care saddens me greatly.

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

" The shooters in the Paris attacks weren't immigrants, they were EU citizens"

Yes but it was well documented that at least 2 of the Paris attackers had travelled back into Europe from Syria posing as refugees during the height of the migrant crisis.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Latest update. ISIS claim the action was one of their 'fighters'.

FBI confess they know about links of the gunman to ISIS.

More will follow.

Breaking news on sky news the FBI said the gunman made a phone call to police before he carried out the attack declaring his allegiance to Islamic State. "

I'm sure the usual apologists will ignore your post and try to blame this on anything but this fact. This is just another mass murderer who follows "the religion of peace".

RIP to the 50.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Just goes to show just how lax the gun laws over there are, the guy had mental issues but because you can buy assault rifles over the counter without any checks this happens.

You only need licences for concealed guns utter madness

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

"Latest update. ISIS claim the action was one of their 'fighters'.

FBI confess they know about links of the gunman to ISIS.

More will follow.

Breaking news on sky news the FBI said the gunman made a phone call to police before he carried out the attack declaring his allegiance to Islamic State.

I'm sure the usual apologists will ignore your post and try to blame this on anything but this fact. This is just another mass murderer who follows "the religion of peace".

RIP to the 50."

using the deaths of those people by anyone to have a dig at others is disgusting..

but to do so when there has never been anyone on either 'side' or political persuasion that is an apologist for such vile actions is sad..

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Latest update. ISIS claim the action was one of their 'fighters'.

FBI confess they know about links of the gunman to ISIS.

More will follow.

Breaking news on sky news the FBI said the gunman made a phone call to police before he carried out the attack declaring his allegiance to Islamic State.

I'm sure the usual apologists will ignore your post and try to blame this on anything but this fact. This is just another mass murderer who follows "the religion of peace".

RIP to the 50.

using the deaths of those people by anyone to have a dig at others is disgusting..

but to do so when there has never been anyone on either 'side' or political persuasion that is an apologist for such vile actions is sad..

There will be. Stop trying to deflect the true reasons for this attack.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The AR-15 is the civilian version of the M4/M16.

Your point? I said as much when I pointed out that the AR-15 started out as a Military Firearm.

Under British Law, the AR-15 is illegal to own unless it's a centerfire in a manually-operated straight pull configuration, or a semi-automatic chambered to fire a .22 rimfire cartridge.

Under American Law, the AR-15 is perfectly legal to own, even if set up to fire the 5.56x45 NATO in a semi-auto or full-auto configuration."

Not really. Any remotly modern AR15 requires physical milling to accept automatic parts which would be an illegal modification.

Interestingly that was the accusation that sparked the wacco siege

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By *anchestercubMan over a year ago

manchester & NI

"Latest update. ISIS claim the action was one of their 'fighters'.

FBI confess they know about links of the gunman to ISIS.

More will follow.

Breaking news on sky news the FBI said the gunman made a phone call to police before he carried out the attack declaring his allegiance to Islamic State.

I'm sure the usual apologists will ignore your post and try to blame this on anything but this fact. This is just another mass murderer who follows "the religion of peace".

RIP to the 50.

using the deaths of those people by anyone to have a dig at others is disgusting..

but to do so when there has never been anyone on either 'side' or political persuasion that is an apologist for such vile actions is sad..

There will be. Stop trying to deflect the true reasons for this attack."

Religious fundamentalism is a big problem for LGBT people.

We face big threats from Christian and Muslim extremists and must be vigilant of everyone.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I think it's testament to the professionalism of our security services that something like that hasn't happened here. Let us hope they keep it up.

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By *oachman 9CoolMan over a year ago

derby

"Its just going to give trump more votes and a reason for people to vote for him now "
Yes there are people which are easily turned in decision makeing some easier than others and trump will rely on them (Another reason why he,s a crass politician) but surely there are enough people in the usa that can use basic common sense to work out for themselves the true donald trump its not a secret anymore (if it ever was one) the guys been likened to hitler he,ll have his followers of course like every other politician But thats all he is a politician one the majority of people in the states hates "hopefully" that should be enough to keep him out of the whitehouse for good.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Maybe some Christian extremists, but it's clear who is way out in front here.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Its just going to give trump more votes and a reason for people to vote for him now Yes there are people which are easily turned in decision makeing some easier than others and trump will rely on them (Another reason why he,s a crass politician) but surely there are enough people in the usa that can use basic common sense to work out for themselves the true donald trump its not a secret anymore (if it ever was one) the guys been likened to hitler he,ll have his followers of course like every other politician But thats all he is a politician one the majority of people in the states hates "hopefully" that should be enough to keep him out of the whitehouse for good."

Keep your hopes up, but I strongly suspect Trump will be president. Hillary is a poor candidate for the Democrats.

At all stages Trump has been negatively campaigned against and it just backfires.

Firstly his candidacy as the Republican nominee was seen as a 'joke' that would not go anywhere.

Then there was no way he would have beaten Ted Cruz. Now look where we are.

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By *anchestercubMan over a year ago

manchester & NI

"Maybe some Christian extremists, but it's clear who is way out in front here."

I didn't realise it was a competition.

You clearly have no idea what's going on if you think one is "way out in front".

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

"Latest update. ISIS claim the action was one of their 'fighters'.

FBI confess they know about links of the gunman to ISIS.

More will follow.

Breaking news on sky news the FBI said the gunman made a phone call to police before he carried out the attack declaring his allegiance to Islamic State.

I'm sure the usual apologists will ignore your post and try to blame this on anything but this fact. This is just another mass murderer who follows "the religion of peace".

RIP to the 50.

using the deaths of those people by anyone to have a dig at others is disgusting..

but to do so when there has never been anyone on either 'side' or political persuasion that is an apologist for such vile actions is sad..

There will be. Stop trying to deflect the true reasons for this attack."

there has not been before..

as no one has presented a balanced point of _iew as to what are the true reasons, certainly not you then i have no need to nor will seek to 'deflect any reasons'..

what i suggest from some will be a distortion but that's the norm with some on here ..

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Yes, apologies, tell me, where is there 'Christian State' where Gay people are thrown off the top of buildings? Where are the Christian beheadings for the Christian equivalent of apostasy? Where are the Christian back stonings for adultery? Which Christian sect is responsible for any mass shootings in public areas where people are watching a rock concert?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

This isn't about one religion vs another, it's about humanity vs evil, in whichever righteous guise it attempts to hide itself, be it spiritual or political.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Latest update. ISIS claim the action was one of their 'fighters'.

FBI confess they know about links of the gunman to ISIS.

More will follow.

Breaking news on sky news the FBI said the gunman made a phone call to police before he carried out the attack declaring his allegiance to Islamic State.

I'm sure the usual apologists will ignore your post and try to blame this on anything but this fact. This is just another mass murderer who follows "the religion of peace".

RIP to the 50.

using the deaths of those people by anyone to have a dig at others is disgusting..

but to do so when there has never been anyone on either 'side' or political persuasion that is an apologist for such vile actions is sad..

There will be. Stop trying to deflect the true reasons for this attack.

there has not been before..

as no one has presented a balanced point of _iew as to what are the true reasons, certainly not you then i have no need to nor will seek to 'deflect any reasons'..

what i suggest from some will be a distortion but that's the norm with some on here .."

Balanced _iew as to the true reasons? And so the 'enlightened' waffle begins!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The AR-15 is the civilian version of the M4/M16.

Your point? I said as much when I pointed out that the AR-15 started out as a Military Firearm.

Under British Law, the AR-15 is illegal to own unless it's a centerfire in a manually-operated straight pull configuration, or a semi-automatic chambered to fire a .22 rimfire cartridge.

Under American Law, the AR-15 is perfectly legal to own, even if set up to fire the 5.56x45 NATO in a semi-auto or full-auto configuration.

Not really. Any remotly modern AR15 requires physical milling to accept automatic parts which would be an illegal modification."

As has already been said, conversion of the AR-15 to full auto is only illegal in certain US states, such as California.

However, we cannot get away from the fact that this was the weapon used in the Sandy Hook shooting, and in a modified form in the San Bernardino shooting.

Also, as I understand it, the group who were besieged at Waco were discovered to have been converting AR-15s to full-auto in contravention of the FOPA (1986)

To clarify my earlier point about full-auto AR-15s being legal to own:

The Firearm Owners Protection Act forbids US Citizens from owning a machine gun manufactured after 1986, or converting a semi-auto weapon into a machine-gun, as in the case of the suspects in the Waco Siege.

However, a simple Google search brings up a whole list of websites run by AR-15 enthusiasts and others, all of which provide step-by-step guides on how to modify the gun using a legal-to-purchase kit, such that it mimics full-auto fire, but remains just the right side of the law as to be 'barely legal.'

In other words, it is true that such modified guns are not, according to 'scientific' firearms specifications, 'full-auto' weapons; however, they are so close to being 'full-auto' in their behaviour that a layman would have little or no ability to distinguish between them.

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By *anchestercubMan over a year ago

manchester & NI

"Yes, apologies, tell me, where is there 'Christian State' where Gay people are thrown off the top of buildings? Where are the Christian beheadings for the Christian equivalent of apostasy? Where are the Christian back stonings for adultery? Which Christian sect is responsible for any mass shootings in public areas where people are watching a rock concert?"

Gay people have been thrown off the top buildings in this country!

Christian countries like Nigeria and Uganda have high rates of LGBT murders that go uninvestigated. They have even tried to inact laws to make being gay a crime with the death penalty.

In Russia and Poland, very strongly orthodox and Christian countries many LGBT people have been beaten and murdered, many have gone missing and never seen again.

In the USA and Brazil there have been a string of murdered transgender women in the past few years.

In 1999 a Neo-Nazi set off a bomb in the Admiral Duncan in London.

If you think Islam is the only religion where extreme attitudes exist and affect LGBT people then you're deluded and you're clearly trying to make a political point at the expense of LGBT people who face threats from many religious fundamentalists and people who have religious beliefs ingrained in them.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Gay people have been thrown off the top buildings in this country!

Christian countries like Nigeria and Uganda have high rates of LGBT murders that go uninvestigated. They have even tried to inact laws to make being gay a crime with the death penalty.

In Russia and Poland, very strongly orthodox and Christian countries many LGBT people have been beaten and murdered, many have gone missing and never seen again.

In the USA and Brazil there have been a string of murdered transgender women in the past few years.

In 1999 a Neo-Nazi set off a bomb in the Admiral Duncan in London.

Nigeria is an Islamic country actually.

Don't get me wrong, I have no time for any religion or religious dogma.

I also never said Islam was the 'only' religion either. But I do think it's overdue a reformation.

Take the point re Russia and Poland. But I would wager Iran and Saudi Arabia, among others, are far harsher environments for the openly gay person.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Not good it happened. This will give trump more votes and fuel to win the election.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Not good it happened. This will give trump more votes and fuel to win the election."

Trump or Hillary, not much difference on a day to day basis probably

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

"Latest update. ISIS claim the action was one of their 'fighters'.

FBI confess they know about links of the gunman to ISIS.

More will follow.

Breaking news on sky news the FBI said the gunman made a phone call to police before he carried out the attack declaring his allegiance to Islamic State.

I'm sure the usual apologists will ignore your post and try to blame this on anything but this fact. This is just another mass murderer who follows "the religion of peace".

RIP to the 50.

using the deaths of those people by anyone to have a dig at others is disgusting..

but to do so when there has never been anyone on either 'side' or political persuasion that is an apologist for such vile actions is sad..

There will be. Stop trying to deflect the true reasons for this attack.

there has not been before..

as no one has presented a balanced point of _iew as to what are the true reasons, certainly not you then i have no need to nor will seek to 'deflect any reasons'..

what i suggest from some will be a distortion but that's the norm with some on here ..

Balanced _iew as to the true reasons? And so the 'enlightened' waffle begins!"

yep and you clearly failed to pass even that basic step..

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

"Latest update. ISIS claim the action was one of their 'fighters'.

FBI confess they know about links of the gunman to ISIS.

More will follow.

Breaking news on sky news the FBI said the gunman made a phone call to police before he carried out the attack declaring his allegiance to Islamic State.

I'm sure the usual apologists will ignore your post and try to blame this on anything but this fact. This is just another mass murderer who follows "the religion of peace".

RIP to the 50.

using the deaths of those people by anyone to have a dig at others is disgusting..

but to do so when there has never been anyone on either 'side' or political persuasion that is an apologist for such vile actions is sad..

There will be. Stop trying to deflect the true reasons for this attack.

there has not been before..

as no one has presented a balanced point of _iew as to what are the true reasons, certainly not you then i have no need to nor will seek to 'deflect any reasons'..

what i suggest from some will be a distortion but that's the norm with some on here .."

So you think the news from sky and the FBI is a distortion????

You think sky and the FBI have not presented a balanced point of _iew as to the true reason for the attack???

The true reason for the attack is already known, the gunman made a phone call to police and declared his allegiance to Islamic State, it was an Islamic State inspired terrorist attack.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Latest update. ISIS claim the action was one of their 'fighters'.

FBI confess they know about links of the gunman to ISIS.

More will follow.

Breaking news on sky news the FBI said the gunman made a phone call to police before he carried out the attack declaring his allegiance to Islamic State.

I'm sure the usual apologists will ignore your post and try to blame this on anything but this fact. This is just another mass murderer who follows "the religion of peace".

RIP to the 50.

using the deaths of those people by anyone to have a dig at others is disgusting..

but to do so when there has never been anyone on either 'side' or political persuasion that is an apologist for such vile actions is sad..

There will be. Stop trying to deflect the true reasons for this attack.

there has not been before..

as no one has presented a balanced point of _iew as to what are the true reasons, certainly not you then i have no need to nor will seek to 'deflect any reasons'..

what i suggest from some will be a distortion but that's the norm with some on here ..

Balanced _iew as to the true reasons? And so the 'enlightened' waffle begins!

yep and you clearly failed to pass even that basic step..

Good response - not!

So, what is you 'balanced' _iew then?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Not good it happened. This will give trump more votes and fuel to win the election.

Trump or Hillary, not much difference on a day to day basis probably"
That is right although trump got more charisma than Hilary.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

With all due respect to Americans contributing to this Thread it is perfectly acceptable to have a debate here in the UK about a pretty big massacre wherever it took place. A huge crime has been committed and people will have _iews. Regret has been expressed and the conversation moves on.

And again for those same people to equate the events in Paris as being the same as those in Orlando is just disingenuous. The events in Paris were organised terrorist attacks involving multiple shooters from a variety of places (not at all 'homegrown'). It was actually plotted in Brussels.

However this shooting in Orlando was a spontaneous murder by an American citizen using a legally held assault rifle. An event that happens on a sadly regular basis in the USA. Of course Obama and the FBI use the words 'terrorist' and 'act of terror' because the guy was a Muslim. Its (again sadly) how Americans seem to react when a Muslim is involved. If he is Muslim he must be a terrorist when in fact the bloke was a nutjob. You only have to look back to a place called San Bernadino not that long ago when an American Muslim and his wife killed his workmates. Before anyone knew the background he was labelled a 'terrorist' and the media was allowed to trample all over a crime scene where suitable bits of 'evidence' were left around by the FBI.

The simple fact is it is too late and the NRA are too powerful for any gun laws ever to be passed in the USA. So thousands of American men, women and children will be killed every year by other Americans supported by their '2nd Amendment' and the failure to believe Police and military can maintain their personal safety. That in itself is a very sad comment on society in the USA.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Not good it happened. This will give trump more votes and fuel to win the election.

Trump or Hillary, not much difference on a day to day basis probablyThat is right although trump got more charisma than Hilary."

For some Americans Trump is a breath of fresh air and remove from the career politicians and political, Washington elite.

Speaks his mind and in a language many ordinary voters there understand.

For Europe and the UK he might not be that good since some of his rhetoric is about cutting back on American spending with reference to the security of Western Europe, which, let's face it, the Americans have paid for for a very long time.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 13/06/16 14:00:42]

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Not good it happened. This will give trump more votes and fuel to win the election.

Trump or Hillary, not much difference on a day to day basis probablyThat is right although trump got more charisma than Hilary."

A persons ability to express themselves and get people listening, doesn't change the content of what they're coming out with - I wouldn't trust Trump as far as I could throw him, and him being a fat bastard that's not very far.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Not good it happened. This will give trump more votes and fuel to win the election.

Trump or Hillary, not much difference on a day to day basis probablyThat is right although trump got more charisma than Hilary.

For some Americans Trump is a breath of fresh air and remove from the career politicians and political, Washington elite.

Speaks his mind and in a language many ordinary voters there understand.

Excellent points there. But somehow I feel safer with Clinton? Trump worries me and I don't know why to be honest. As far as the UK is concerned I think Obama (and by implication the USA) was seen in a very bad light when he intervened in our domestic affairs, said we should be the US Trojan Horse in the EU to promote TTIP for them and then said we should go to the back of some queue post Brexit. So the 'Special relationship' is out the window then?

This next US POTUS Election will be momentous for everyone including us and there is no good or bad or right or wrong. Just Right and Extremely Right.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

He had been called in by the FBI three times and his fathers comments on punishments for homosexuality being left to god were quite telling. There was certainly no hint of toleration in his speech. It is such shame that in an era of unprecedented access to information and education such _iews are still so prevalent.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I do wish people would give it a rest with all this 'equivalence fallacy' rubbish.

No, Christian extremists don't throw gay people off buildings, or behead apostates, or support the stoning of adulterers. However, that doesn't mean that we should ignore such groups as being 'raving lunatics' who can simply be ignored, as if they did not exist.

Just as terrorist groups such as the various factions of the IRA ceased armed action because they realised that there were more effective methods by which to achieve their goals, so Christian fundamentalists have 'got smart.'

They know all too well that carrying out bombings, beheadings and shootings with achieve nothing, and that 'lone-wolf' attackers like Robert Lewis Dear will be dismissed by the media as aberrations and statistical anomalies.

As such, they operate in other ways, using psychological manipulation, intimidation and online propaganda to achieve their ends. They blackmail gay people, threaten to out them online to their families and colleagues, or post YouTube videos and tweets encouraging LGBT youths to commit suicide.

In India, Uganda, Zimbabwe, South Africa, Jamaica, Thailand and Ecuador, countless cases have been reported of Lesbians, Asexuals, Transgender and Intersex people being subjected to rape or forced marriage in order to 'correct' their behaviour.

In America, fundamentalist groups like 'Exodus International' and 'Love Won Out' have spent decades persecuting LGBT citizens, subjecting them to untold psychological damage through unethical, pseudoscientific 'conversion therapies.'

I could go on...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The AR-15 is the civilian version of the M4/M16.

Your point? I said as much when I pointed out that the AR-15 started out as a Military Firearm.

Under British Law, the AR-15 is illegal to own unless it's a centerfire in a manually-operated straight pull configuration, or a semi-automatic chambered to fire a .22 rimfire cartridge.

Under American Law, the AR-15 is perfectly legal to own, even if set up to fire the 5.56x45 NATO in a semi-auto or full-auto configuration."

Chaps, whilst I admire the depth of your knowledge regarding various types of firearms and the passion you transmit in your arguments, the fervent belief that you (both) are right, I believe you're both arguing about the wrong thing.

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By *iSTARessWoman over a year ago

London

Tonight there is a vigil in Old Compton Street. I'll be there.

https://www.facebook.com/events/1017280595022769/?ti=cl

LGBTQI+ folk, we need to be visible. There is still a lot of work to be done.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The AR-15 is the civilian version of the M4/M16.

Your point? I said as much when I pointed out that the AR-15 started out as a Military Firearm.

Under British Law, the AR-15 is illegal to own unless it's a centerfire in a manually-operated straight pull configuration, or a semi-automatic chambered to fire a .22 rimfire cartridge.

Under American Law, the AR-15 is perfectly legal to own, even if set up to fire the 5.56x45 NATO in a semi-auto or full-auto configuration.

I wasn't trying to show off my 'depth of knowledge' about firearms. I was trying to illustrate the difference between British and American legislation concerning the kind of guns used in the Orlando Shooting.

The fact is that unlike America, the British Government reacted to Hungerford and Dunblane by restricting the ownership of semi-automatic rifles and other weapons.

By contrast, the AR-15 has been used in some of the most notorious shootings in recent American history, yet the US Government continues to allow itself to kowtow to the NRA and hardline Republicans...

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By *anchestercubMan over a year ago

manchester & NI

"Tonight there is a vigil in Old Compton Street. I'll be there.

https://www.facebook.com/events/1017280595022769/?ti=cl

LGBTQI+ folk, we need to be visible. There is still a lot of work to be done.

Manchester is doing the same, there's an evening full of vigils and speakers tonight in the village from 7pm.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The AR-15 is the civilian version of the M4/M16.

Your point? I said as much when I pointed out that the AR-15 started out as a Military Firearm.

Under British Law, the AR-15 is illegal to own unless it's a centerfire in a manually-operated straight pull configuration, or a semi-automatic chambered to fire a .22 rimfire cartridge.

Under American Law, the AR-15 is perfectly legal to own, even if set up to fire the 5.56x45 NATO in a semi-auto or full-auto configuration.

The fact is that unlike America, the British Government reacted to Hungerford and Dunblane by restricting the ownership of semi-automatic rifles and other weapons.

And despite your denial, you continue......

Please, go and give your head a wobble and instead a dick measuring competition, you show a little respect for those who have lost their lives and the despair of their loved ones.

Which let's be honest, was actually the point of the thread.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"go and give your head a wobble and instead a dick measuring competition, you show a little respect for those who have lost their lives and the despair of their loved ones.

Which let's be honest, was actually the point of the thread. "

Nice way to miss the point. Highlighting that the weapon used in the Orlando shooting is the same one used at San Bernardino and other such incidents is not a 'dick-measuring contest.' It's pointing out that, in spite of these incidents occurring time and time again, any attempt by the US Government to pass effective reform of gun laws is blocked by the pro-gun lobby.

The victims of the Orlando shooting, their families and friends all deserve to be shown respect. That's why so many people on here are advocating for tighter gun controls.

How many more American citizens have to die before the gun lobby realises that the ease of access to firearms INCREASES the likelihood of these crimes, rather than preventing them?

Perhaps the NRA and the gun-loving idiots in the Republican camp could show respect for the victims of Sandy Hook, Santa Barbara, San Bernardino, and Orlando by waking up and realising that these gunmen might be less able to carry out such attacks if Congress was able to enact proper legislation to control gun ownership?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Just want to show my horror at this horrible event.

I was speaking to my mother on the phone last night and she was asking me to stay away from gay areas.

I've hidden long enough. I don't want to die a martyr but I refuse to hide.

I go to pride. I stand up to be counted. I wear my pride wrist band 24/7. I have a pride flag on my car.

Women stood up against their oppression. They still do. There have been advances forward with law changes and legislation and I doubt human nature will allow complete acceptance same as women still face discrimination even today.

I hope by adding myself to those who stand proud I can do my little bit to push back the prejudice a little further.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Just want to show my horror at this horrible event.

I was speaking to my mother on the phone last night and she was asking me to stay away from gay areas.

I've hidden long enough. I don't want to die a martyr but I refuse to hide.

I go to pride. I stand up to be counted. I wear my pride wrist band 24/7. I have a pride flag on my car.

I hope by adding myself to those who stand proud I can do my little bit to push back the prejudice a little further. "

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By *mojeeCouple over a year ago

Dunfermline

It bugs me how they keep referring to it as a gay club. Why can't they just call it a club

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It bugs me how they keep referring to it as a gay club. Why can't they just call it a club"

I think it's because the fact that it was a club mainly for the LGBT community played a role in it being a target. So the gay aspect of the club is relevant.

I personally think this is more relevant than the gun issue.

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By *albec26Man over a year ago

Great Yarmouth

"It bugs me how they keep referring to it as a gay club. Why can't they just call it a club"

You have a really good point there

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Also, if anyone is guilty of engaging in a dick-measuring contest, it's those members of the NRA and similar organisations who purchase high-powered weaponry under the guise of 'home defence,' but instead treat it as being akin to a sports car or a piece of expensive jewellery.

The fact is that owning a gun does not increase your level of protection against an intruder or an assailant. You are far more likely to injure or kill a member of your own family, or have a home-held firearm used against you or in an accidental homicide.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It bugs me how they keep referring to it as a gay club. Why can't they just call it a club

You have a really good point there

Actually, it's entirely relevant to call it a 'Gay Club.' The shooter targeted the venue SPECIFICALLY because it was a hub of the Orlando LGBT community.

To simply refer to it as a 'club' is to suggest that it was targeted at random; that the shooter simply stuck a pin in a map...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It bugs me how they keep referring to it as a gay club. Why can't they just call it a club

You have a really good point there

Actually, it's entirely relevant to call it a 'Gay Club.' The shooter targeted the venue SPECIFICALLY because it was a hub of the Orlando LGBT community.

To simply refer to it as a 'club' is to suggest that it was targeted at random; that the shooter simply stuck a pin in a map..."

How about we think of it simply as a club full of innocent human beings, enjoying their lifestyle as they saw fit, who were murdered by a cunt with a twisted religious ideology?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"How about we think of it simply as a club full of innocent human beings, enjoying their lifestyle as they saw fit, who were murdered by a cunt with a twisted religious ideology?"

Acknowledging the motives of the shooter, and the fact that he SPECIFICALLY targeted the LGBT community does not mean that we are somehow failing to treat the victims as 'innocent human beings enjoying their lifestyle.'

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"go and give your head a wobble and instead a dick measuring competition, you show a little respect for those who have lost their lives and the despair of their loved ones.

Which let's be honest, was actually the point of the thread.

The victims of the Orlando shooting, their families and friends all deserve to be shown respect. That's why so many people on here are advocating for tighter gun controls.

How many more American citizens have to die before the gun lobby realises that the ease of access to firearms INCREASES the likelihood of these crimes, rather than preventing them?

Whoosh........

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

"Latest update. ISIS claim the action was one of their 'fighters'.

FBI confess they know about links of the gunman to ISIS.

More will follow.

Breaking news on sky news the FBI said the gunman made a phone call to police before he carried out the attack declaring his allegiance to Islamic State.

I'm sure the usual apologists will ignore your post and try to blame this on anything but this fact. This is just another mass murderer who follows "the religion of peace".

RIP to the 50.

using the deaths of those people by anyone to have a dig at others is disgusting..

but to do so when there has never been anyone on either 'side' or political persuasion that is an apologist for such vile actions is sad..

There will be. Stop trying to deflect the true reasons for this attack.

there has not been before..

as no one has presented a balanced point of _iew as to what are the true reasons, certainly not you then i have no need to nor will seek to 'deflect any reasons'..

what i suggest from some will be a distortion but that's the norm with some on here ..

So you think the news from sky and the FBI is a distortion????

You think sky and the FBI have not presented a balanced point of _iew as to the true reason for the attack???

The true reason for the attack is already known, the gunman made a phone call to police and declared his allegiance to Islamic State, it was an Islamic State inspired terrorist attack.

yes Centaur they have done, my previous posting that you refer to was related to those on here who consistently fail to have any sort of balance whenever such attacks occur and the wholesale vilification of an entire group begins, not just those who carry out such atrocities..

but i reckon you knew that before you dived in eh..

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Also, if anyone is guilty of engaging in a dick-measuring contest, it's those members of the NRA and similar organisations who purchase high-powered weaponry under the guise of 'home defence,' but instead treat it as being akin to a sports car or a piece of expensive jewellery.

Whoosh..........

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By *rinking-in-laCouple over a year ago

Bristol

"There are no words to describe how horrible some humans can be."

I can think of a few.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

"Latest update. ISIS claim the action was one of their 'fighters'.

FBI confess they know about links of the gunman to ISIS.

More will follow.

Breaking news on sky news the FBI said the gunman made a phone call to police before he carried out the attack declaring his allegiance to Islamic State.

I'm sure the usual apologists will ignore your post and try to blame this on anything but this fact. This is just another mass murderer who follows "the religion of peace".

RIP to the 50.

using the deaths of those people by anyone to have a dig at others is disgusting..

but to do so when there has never been anyone on either 'side' or political persuasion that is an apologist for such vile actions is sad..

There will be. Stop trying to deflect the true reasons for this attack.

there has not been before..

as no one has presented a balanced point of _iew as to what are the true reasons, certainly not you then i have no need to nor will seek to 'deflect any reasons'..

what i suggest from some will be a distortion but that's the norm with some on here ..

Balanced _iew as to the true reasons? And so the 'enlightened' waffle begins!

yep and you clearly failed to pass even that basic step..

Good response - not!

So, what is you 'balanced' _iew then?"

given you set the bar low with your 'waffle' bollocks comment what do you expect..?

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By *rinking-in-laCouple over a year ago

Bristol

"It bugs me how they keep referring to it as a gay club. Why can't they just call it a club

You have a really good point there

Actually, it's entirely relevant to call it a 'Gay Club.' The shooter targeted the venue SPECIFICALLY because it was a hub of the Orlando LGBT community.

To simply refer to it as a 'club' is to suggest that it was targeted at random; that the shooter simply stuck a pin in a map..."

You are right. But there really is nothing to be gained by having an argument about it now.

49 people lie dead and we need to ensure that such ruinous behaviour does not cause any more disruption or destruction than it already has.

Arguing serves to cause division and whilst that is sometimes useful, I would suggest that in this context it only serves to lose sight of what has happened and why and who has fallen victim.

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By *illwill69uMan over a year ago

moston

Here are 13 (unlucky for many) facts relating to US Gun violence in 2015.

1) As of December 23, a total of 12,942 people had been killed in the United States in 2015 in a gun homicide, unintentional shooting, or murder/suicide. That's an average of 36 people a day (and excludes most suicides).

2) Between 2005 and 2015 301,797 people were killed by gun violence in the USA.

3) Mass shootings — as measured by four or more people shot, regardless of total fatalities — have taken place in nearly 100 metro areas over the past 12 months.

4) Only 2% of the USA's gun violence looks like Umpqua, Charleston, San Bernardino or Orlando. The other 98% barely make it on to the local news unless they have celebrity/shock value.

5) Black men are disproportionately affected by gun violence.

6) At a rate of more than twice a day, someone under 18 has been shot and killed.

7) Unsecured guns have turned dozens of toddlers into killers — and many more into victims. In 2015 a toddler shot someone on average once a week, with 19 killing themselves, 25 injuring themselves, 2 killing other people and 13 injuring others.

8) Guns are now ending as many American lives as cars.

9) A gun in a troubled home continues to raise the risk of death. It now stands at 12 times that of a domestic attack that does not involve firearms.

10) Gun sales in 2015 continued at a blistering pace. On black Friday 2015 the FBI processed 185,345 background checks in a single day! Each one resulted in the sale of a firearm.

11) Eight percent of US gun owners own a stockpile of 10 or more weapons.

12) Less than 10% of all stolen firearms are recovered (measured by retail value).

13) On December 16th the 114th Congress of the USA held its 25th 'Moment of Silence' honouring the 'victims of gun violence' since the Newton school shooting in December 2012. But still refuse to change US gun law.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Why can't we just take all the bad words that offend people and put them in a cupboard somewhere so they never have to look or think about it anymore!.

It's such a lovely peaceful religion I really really can't think why all those liberal gays and transsexual's don't go out there and live amongst them!....

Oh yeah let me think.... How many gay clubs are there again in the Islamic world?.

The guys own dad has said my son's wicked.... It's for God to judge gay peoples behaviour(and then punish them) not good Muslims!.

That's the bottom line here folks, the righteous decent Muslims think God is going to smite you, the not so decent ones think they should smite you!.

If you've ever read any forums ever, you'll notice nobody convinces the people who actually belive stuff with, rational fucking argument.

So LBGT PEOPLE.... good luck with converting them to your argument

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By *anchestercubMan over a year ago

manchester & NI

The guys own dad has said my son's wicked.... It's for God to judge gay peoples behaviour(and then punish them) not good Muslims!.

There are plenty of Christian groups who think and say the exact same thing.

LGBT people have to vigilant of everyone, it's foolish and risky to say we should only be concerned with one group.

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By *rinking-in-laCouple over a year ago

Bristol

"Why can't we just take all the bad words that offend people and put them in a cupboard somewhere so they never have to look or think about it anymore!.

It's such a lovely peaceful religion I really really can't think why all those liberal gays and transsexual's don't go out there and live amongst them!....

Oh yeah let me think.... How many gay clubs are there again in the Islamic world?.

The guys own dad has said my son's wicked.... It's for God to judge gay peoples behaviour(and then punish them) not good Muslims!.

That's the bottom line here folks, the righteous decent Muslims think God is going to smite you, the not so decent ones think they should smite you!.

If you've ever read any forums ever, you'll notice nobody convinces the people who actually belive stuff with, rational fucking argument.

So LBGT PEOPLE.... good luck with converting them to your argument"

To be fair all religions smite and judge people for many reasonable things. Being homosexual is only one on a huge list. Just like the Dutch woman who was fined for sex outside of marriage in Qatar yesterday for being allegedly raped. Religion is fucked and it needs to stop.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Whoosh.........."

Keep saying 'Whoosh,' keep burying your head in the sand.

That just proves that you lack the ability to construct a reasonable counter-argument.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Whoosh.........."

I refer you to the following statistics posted by a fellow commentator:

2) Between 2005 and 2015 301,797 people were killed by gun violence in the USA.

3) Mass shootings — as measured by four or more people shot, regardless of total fatalities — have taken place in nearly 100 US metro areas over the past 12 months.

4) At a rate of more than twice a day, someone under 18 has been shot and killed in the US.

5) In 2015 a toddler shot someone on average once a week, with 19 killing themselves, 25 injuring themselves, 2 killing other people and 13 injuring others.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If we are talking numbers here is the one that gets me deep down:

In 11 years of the Afghanistan war for every one US soldier Killed In Action 13 children were shot and killed... In the USA.

It is appalling innocent people of whatever age, gender, religion, orientation (as in Orlando) or activity are murdered for just being there (mostly at school apparently). What is even MORE appalling (IMHO) is that the Governments of the day overseeing hundreds of thousands of their citizens being slaughtered do not a damn thing.

The hypocrisy attached to all this gun violence says that when an American coloured Muslim goes into a cafe and kills 14 people it is terrorism. When a coloured American Muslim goes into a club (any club) and kills 50 people it is terrorism but if a white American Christian goes into a school and kills 23 children and teachers thats all OK Jack. Its just some good old boy exercising his 2nd Amendment rights ....

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Just for info:

It wasn't IS related after all....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-36521761

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Whoosh..........

Keep saying 'Whoosh,' keep burying your head in the sand.

That just proves that you lack the ability to construct a reasonable counter-argument."

Counter argument to what? All you keep telling is about which gun is which.

I'll keep saying whoosh all the time you waffle on, arguing about which is better or bigger or older or longer, the M14 or the M16 and totally miss the point of the thread.

It's not about which gun is which, it's about having a bit of sympathy for the people who lost their lives and their loved ones.

I don't give a fiddlers fuck about which gun is best.

I do care about respect, empathy and sympathy, so, have another one.

Whoosh.......

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

"Just for info:

It wasn't IS related after all....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-36521761"

I just read your link, it says there is no clear evidence the gunman had direct links to Islamic state, however he did phone the authorities before he carried out the attack declaring his allegiance to Islamic state so it was an Islamic state inspired terrorist attack.

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"Just for info:

It wasn't IS related after all....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-36521761"

it might not be IS linked as in that planned it..... but in the 911 call he made to authorities he apparently pledged allegence to IS.... and are taking credit for it calling him a "soldier of the caliphate"

that is why this is being treated as a terror incident (that can be both domestic of foreign) AND a hate crime....

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By *ophieslutTV/TS over a year ago

Central

The homophobic killer's father has now posted a homophobic video condemning gay people.

Man who hates gay people goes to gay club and kills and injures over 100 innocent people. Was it a hate crime? Of course.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The homophobic killer's father has now posted a homophobic video condemning gay people.

Man who hates gay people goes to gay club and kills and injures over 100 innocent people. Was it a hate crime? Of course."

Yes. And this is what is missed in all the talk surrounding gun control here (which I've already stated is a problem that needs to be addressed).

This crime was clearly motivated by homophobic feelings. Those same homophobic feelings have been spouted and supported by republican politicians, predominately in the south. There have been skirmishes over bathrooms, wedding cakes, religious freedom, etc across the south in the past few years that have supported this attitude towards the gay community.

When we harbor and support this type of hatred then we end up with horrible results. I asked earlier why it was that Switzerland could have a high rate of gun ownership and not have the same problems as the US. No one answered me. But I believe this is the answer. Perhaps the US (and yes, mostly the south in my opinion) needs to work out it's general anger and aggression, it's hatred and bigotry (often in the name of religion) and then guns won't always seem like the answer.

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By *adyboy-DaddyCouple over a year ago

Andover

How can any reputable news outlet broadcast such an obvious lie without pointing out that in Islam homosexuality is an abomination that must be punished by death.

Christianity also says homosexuality is punishable by death.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The homophobic killer's father has now posted a homophobic video condemning gay people.

Man who hates gay people goes to gay club and kills and injures over 100 innocent people. Was it a hate crime? Of course.

Yes. And this is what is missed in all the talk surrounding gun control here (which I've already stated is a problem that needs to be addressed).

Put simply.

People kill people.

The U.S. has horrific racism and homophobia.

It shocked me when I lived there briefly.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Trump is loving it.

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By *rinhueCouple over a year ago

Blackpool

The best news for one friend, the worst news for two. We were over there last year visiting and met so many wonderful people who were at Pulse that night.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The best news for one friend, the worst news for two. We were over there last year visiting and met so many wonderful people who were at Pulse that night."

Best news?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The majority of people would just see it all as senseless killing, hidden behind the cloak of religion.

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By *anchestercubMan over a year ago

manchester & NI

"Trump is loving it.

As expected

The difference in rhetoric is astonishing.

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By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

"Trump is loving it.

So is Leave.EU they tweeted saying "Act now before we see an Orlando style attack here"

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The more I read about the guy (Mateen) he just seems like he was in massive denial about his sexuality.

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