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EU exposes Britain to terror threat

By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

The EU are forcing Britain to accept terror suspects into the country under EU rules. Fact. How can the remain campaign defend that?

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By *yrdwomanWoman over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

Have you signed up to BNP weekly without realising?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Have you signed up to BNP weekly without realising?"

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

Pfft

"...is all ah have ta say 'bout dat."

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I never trust people who make comments like this without citing a credible source*, then write FACT at the end of their sentence.

FACT.

*Not BF or The Sun.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

This?

EU referendum: Rules giving 'free pass' to terror suspects - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35921608

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The EU are forcing Britain to accept terror suspects into the country under EU rules. Fact. How can the remain campaign defend that?"

Knowing a number of serving and retired senior officers who have been involved in anti terror roles I very very very much doubt this

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By *ittie4UCouple over a year ago

Watford

"The EU are forcing Britain to accept terror suspects into the country under EU rules. Fact. How can the remain campaign defend that?"

Have you noticed through these endless EU referendum threads that so many of the Brexiters are determined to see themselves, the British and Britain as victims? Victims, victims, victims.

Victims of 'Europen rules'; victims of 'EU workers'; victims of EU 'forcing' things on us; victims of red tape; victims of 'faceless EU bureaucrats'.....

Now we are victims of the EU 'forcing terror suspects on us'. It's a fact.

It's also a fact that Britain Is Stronger in are playing the Project Fear card.

And the Remain side are making things up

Vote how you want, but please at least give your brain a chance!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I'm just waiting for the terrorist attacks at the Euro cup in France.....

It is an obvious fact that our intelligence services are massively ahead of those on the continent. Either way all intelligence sharing is done on individual basis, as it always has been, and in or out will make sod all difference either way.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"This?

EU referendum: Rules giving 'free pass' to terror suspects - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35921608"

That article says 6,000 EU residents weren't allowed to come to the UK due to posing a significant threat. That seems like quite a lot, especially considering not many EU residents are extremists in the grand scheme of things (it mainly occurs in the middle east, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Syria).

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple over a year ago

Derbyshire

"This?

EU referendum: Rules giving 'free pass' to terror suspects - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35921608"

That's still not a credible source if you read the article.

That's like posting a link to a report of DC saying leaving will start WWIII, and then stating 'leaving the EU will start WWIII' as fact

Mr ddc

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Have you signed up to BNP weekly without realising?"

These sort of meaningless comments just make you look uninformed. Michael Gove, the Secretary of State for Justice, states that he has had to allow terrorist suspects in because of eu regulations. He says it in an interview in tomorrows Daily Telegraph.

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple over a year ago

Derbyshire

"The EU are forcing Britain to accept terror suspects into the country under EU rules. Fact. How can the remain campaign defend that?"

Simple.

It's bollocks.

Next?

Mr.ddc

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"This?

EU referendum: Rules giving 'free pass' to terror suspects - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35921608

That's still not a credible source if you read the article.

That's like posting a link to a report of DC saying leaving will start WWIII, and then stating 'leaving the EU will start WWIII' as fact

Mr ddc"

I just googled to see what it was he was talking about, and posted the link. I couldn't give a tuppeny fuck what you think is a credible source. If you dont like it i suggest you do your own "googling" and stop sitting on the side of the pond throwing stones like every other kid.

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple over a year ago

Derbyshire

"This?

EU referendum: Rules giving 'free pass' to terror suspects - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35921608

That's still not a credible source if you read the article.

That's like posting a link to a report of DC saying leaving will start WWIII, and then stating 'leaving the EU will start WWIII' as fact

Mr ddc

Is it handbags at dawn?

Perhaps if you read the article, you would understand my point.

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By *mmabluTV/TS over a year ago

upton wirral

"Have you signed up to BNP weekly without realising?

Why is it racist to want to keep terrorist suspects out of the country? Calling someone a racist for wanting to keep their country safe from terrorism just makes you look uneducated about whats going on in the world."

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

This whole thing is about twisting the truth for both sides. In the end no one knows how it will turn out if we leave..but one thing is sure...it will not be the end of the UK either way.

And for the record I'm out for my own reasons

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The EU are forcing Britain to accept terror suspects into the country under EU rules. Fact. How can the remain campaign defend that?

Simple.

It's bollocks.

Next?

Mr.ddc"

Is that your counterpoint! Just calling it bollocks. Someones talking bollocks mr.ddc and methinks its you

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

and all that is well and good.... but it wouldn't have helped for example with 7/7..... because they were all home grown bombers......

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple over a year ago

Derbyshire

"The EU are forcing Britain to accept terror suspects into the country under EU rules. Fact. How can the remain campaign defend that?

Simple.

It's bollocks.

Next?

Mr.ddc

Is that your counterpoint! Just calling it bollocks. Someones talking bollocks mr.ddc and methinks its you

To be fair at least I read the full article before reaching that conclusion...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"This?

EU referendum: Rules giving 'free pass' to terror suspects - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35921608

That's still not a credible source if you read the article.

That's like posting a link to a report of DC saying leaving will start WWIII, and then stating 'leaving the EU will start WWIII' as fact

Mr ddc

Is it handbags at dawn?

Perhaps if you read the article, you would understand my point.

You see, i was asking the OP if that was the story to which HE was referring. If he had confirmed it then you were quite at liberty to pile in on your high horse sprouting all sorts of sanctimonious clap trap. But no, have a go at Clem for posting a link from one of the few sanctioned websites on fab, whilst trying to make yourself look clever....good for you.

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple over a year ago

Derbyshire

And to give balance, much of what the other side says is bollocks too

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Have you signed up to BNP weekly without realising?"

What a pure ignorant comment. Do some research instead of making glib comments.

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple over a year ago

Derbyshire

"This?

EU referendum: Rules giving 'free pass' to terror suspects - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35921608

That's still not a credible source if you read the article.

That's like posting a link to a report of DC saying leaving will start WWIII, and then stating 'leaving the EU will start WWIII' as fact

Mr ddc

Is it handbags at dawn?

Perhaps if you read the article, you would understand my point.

But the positioning of your post made it look like you were responding to Ruby.

I was neither having a go (merely debating the veracity of the headline) nor trying to make myself look cleverer than you (you are doing that for me)

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Erm... has anyone else checked the OP's green arrow?

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple over a year ago

Derbyshire

"Erm... has anyone else checked the OP's green arrow?

Yes, immediately after Wyrd's comment

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Erm... has anyone else checked the OP's green arrow?

Yes, immediately after Wyrd's comment

I'm just chuckling to meself now

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"The EU are forcing Britain to accept terror suspects into the country under EU rules. Fact. How can the remain campaign defend that?"

again how would that have help in the case of 7/7 where they were all homegrown...

and more interesting though... side the leave side say that "irish citizens will be exempt from any changes"..... it wouldn't have made a jot of difference during the troubles.....

the fact is if they do pose a clear and present danger to the country on entry... they CAN be stopped...

so who do you have in mind and what cases have "slipped thru the net" of people here that would have been stopped under the new rules... that were not stopped under the current ones?

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By *oncupiscentTonyMan over a year ago

Kent

Hopefully the England band will get stopped exiting at Dover and that bloody trumpet will be confiscated

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By *eliz NelsonMan over a year ago

The Tantric Tea Shop

Sits on fence, swinging legs and whistling!!

I think, I really think that we should have had far more time to decide on this!

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"The EU are forcing Britain to accept terror suspects into the country under EU rules. Fact. How can the remain campaign defend that?

again how would that have help in the case of 7/7 where they were all homegrown...

and more interesting though... side the leave side say that "irish citizens will be exempt from any changes"..... it wouldn't have made a jot of difference during the troubles.....

the fact is if they do pose a clear and present danger to the country on entry... they CAN be stopped...

so who do you have in mind and what cases have "slipped thru the net" of people here that would have been stopped under the new rules... that were not stopped under the current ones?"

You'll have to ask the Secretary of State for Justice that because he is the one who said he has had to let terrorist suspects into the country due to EU rules.

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"The EU are forcing Britain to accept terror suspects into the country under EU rules. Fact. How can the remain campaign defend that?

again how would that have help in the case of 7/7 where they were all homegrown...

and more interesting though... side the leave side say that "irish citizens will be exempt from any changes"..... it wouldn't have made a jot of difference during the troubles.....

the fact is if they do pose a clear and present danger to the country on entry... they CAN be stopped...

so who do you have in mind and what cases have "slipped thru the net" of people here that would have been stopped under the new rules... that were not stopped under the current ones?

You'll have to ask the Secretary of State for Justice that because he is the one who said he has had to let terrorist suspects into the country due to EU rules."

well then shouldn't he give us some examples then....otherwise are just not parroting his soundbites with no evidence.....

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"The EU are forcing Britain to accept terror suspects into the country under EU rules. Fact. How can the remain campaign defend that?

again how would that have help in the case of 7/7 where they were all homegrown...

and more interesting though... side the leave side say that "irish citizens will be exempt from any changes"..... it wouldn't have made a jot of difference during the troubles.....

the fact is if they do pose a clear and present danger to the country on entry... they CAN be stopped...

so who do you have in mind and what cases have "slipped thru the net" of people here that would have been stopped under the new rules... that were not stopped under the current ones?

You'll have to ask the Secretary of State for Justice that because he is the one who said he has had to let terrorist suspects into the country due to EU rules.

well then shouldn't he give us some examples then....otherwise are just not parroting his soundbites with no evidence.....

Have you got proof that no terror suspect has ever been allowed into the country?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The EU are forcing Britain to accept terror suspects into the country under EU rules. Fact. How can the remain campaign defend that?

again how would that have help in the case of 7/7 where they were all homegrown...

and more interesting though... side the leave side say that "irish citizens will be exempt from any changes"..... it wouldn't have made a jot of difference during the troubles.....

the fact is if they do pose a clear and present danger to the country on entry... they CAN be stopped...

so who do you have in mind and what cases have "slipped thru the net" of people here that would have been stopped under the new rules... that were not stopped under the current ones?

You'll have to ask the Secretary of State for Justice that because he is the one who said he has had to let terrorist suspects into the country due to EU rules.

well then shouldn't he give us some examples then....otherwise are just not parroting his soundbites with no evidence.....

Have you got proof that no terror suspect has ever been allowed into the country?"
I think the burden of proof lies with the accuser

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

"and all that is well and good.... but it wouldn't have helped for example with 7/7..... because they were all home grown bombers......"

Just look at what is happening in mainland Europe. EU rules on the border free Shengen area allows free movement of terrorists across borders. We already saw it happen with the Paris terror attacks last year where it was well documented at least 2 of the attackers had travelled from Syria into France where they carried out the attacks. The head of Interpol is on record saying the EU may as well put a sign up saying "All terrorists welcome here" as EU rules on migration allow them to move around freely.

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By *its_n_piecesCouple over a year ago

"The EU are forcing Britain to accept terror suspects into the country under EU rules. Fact. How can the remain campaign defend that?

again how would that have help in the case of 7/7 where they were all homegrown...

and more interesting though... side the leave side say that "irish citizens will be exempt from any changes"..... it wouldn't have made a jot of difference during the troubles.....

the fact is if they do pose a clear and present danger to the country on entry... they CAN be stopped...

so who do you have in mind and what cases have "slipped thru the net" of people here that would have been stopped under the new rules... that were not stopped under the current ones?

You'll have to ask the Secretary of State for Justice that because he is the one who said he has had to let terrorist suspects into the country due to EU rules.

well then shouldn't he give us some examples then....otherwise are just not parroting his soundbites with no evidence.....

Have you got proof that no terror suspect has ever been allowed into the country? I think the burden of proof lies with the accuser"

aka the informal fallacy of onus probandi

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I'd be more worried about the people who we don't know are terrorists.

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By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

"Have you signed up to BNP weekly without realising?

The BBC article says that we don’t stop people without “credible intelligence” that they pose a terrorist threat. Are you suggesting we should stop people that we don’t have “credible intelligence” about?

The government doesn’t have “credible intelligence” that I am a terrorist (because I’m not), should I be stopped from travelling places? Does the government have any “credible intelligence” about you being a terrorist? Should they stop you travelling?

3/4 of the 7/7 bombers where home grown, and the other wasn’t from the UK. Home grown terrorists are were the current threat is coming from, not particularly from foreigners.

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

"I'm just waiting for the terrorist attacks at the Euro cup in France.....

That is exactly what the veterans for Brexit said last week and they said we Co-operate much more closely on a bilateral level with countries like USA to combat terror threats. The veterans for Brexit are a group of former military officers and generals.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The EU are forcing Britain to accept terror suspects into the country under EU rules. Fact. How can the remain campaign defend that?"

Also. By March 26th 2017 the EU has passed a rule which means we will have to hand over all our wages to Terrorist Refugees. They will not only each get £3000 a day in benefits. They will also be entitled to the wages of their nearest neighbours. Also by E bloody U law, we will have to greet them with oral relief. Even straight guys will have to suck their terrorist refugee penis's. Bloody EU.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Have you signed up to BNP weekly without realising?"

Lol.

We need to stay in if they're using the old terrorism threat as a reason to leave. They always use this shit when desperate.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Have you signed up to BNP weekly without realising?

Lol.

We need to stay in if they're using the old terrorism threat as a reason to leave. They always use this shit when desperate."

We all have reasons to stay or go....but to be honest that is a piss poor one

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By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

They should make a law, making terrorism illegal, then we wouldn’t have all of these problems.

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By *eliz NelsonMan over a year ago

The Tantric Tea Shop

"The EU are forcing Britain to accept terror suspects into the country under EU rules. Fact. How can the remain campaign defend that?

Damn! That EU....climbs off fence 'I'm out!.... hang on! Is this true!!

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

"Have you signed up to BNP weekly without realising?

Lol.

We need to stay in if they're using the old terrorism threat as a reason to leave. They always use this shit when desperate."

The Remain side have been using arguments about cooperation with the EU to combat terror threats, so does that also mean the Remain side are desperate if they are using that as a reason to stay?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The EU are forcing Britain to accept terror suspects into the country under EU rules. Fact. How can the remain campaign defend that?

Damn! That EU....climbs off fence 'I'm out!.... hang on! Is this true!!

its here,clear as day, right here on the internet....so of course it is!

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple over a year ago

Derbyshire

"Have you signed up to BNP weekly without realising?

Lol.

We need to stay in if they're using the old terrorism threat as a reason to leave. They always use this shit when desperate.

The Remain side have been using arguments about cooperation with the EU to combat terror threats, so does that also mean the Remain side are desperate if they are using that as a reason to stay? "

Both sides are as bad as each other.

Sadly.

Mr ddc

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"This?

EU referendum: Rules giving 'free pass' to terror suspects - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35921608

No it doesn't, all the 7/7 bombers were British, all the Paris bombers were French/Belgium, all the 911 bombers were Saudi/Pakistanis, the Madrid bombers were EU residents and to be honest most of the Syrian isis fighters are born outside of Syria or Libya....

The people committing the terrorism is not middle Eastern Muslims the problem is second and third generation western Muslims, however the motive maybe middle Eastern problems

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By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

"Have you signed up to BNP weekly without realising?

Lol.

We need to stay in if they're using the old terrorism threat as a reason to leave. They always use this shit when desperate."

Why don’t we just stop all the muslims coming? Thats a good idea right? Ask them if they are muslims, if they say yes, then send them back to Islamistan.

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By *eliz NelsonMan over a year ago

The Tantric Tea Shop

"The EU are forcing Britain to accept terror suspects into the country under EU rules. Fact. How can the remain campaign defend that?

Damn! That EU....climbs off fence 'I'm out!.... hang on! Is this true!!

its here,clear as day, right here on the internet....so of course it is!"

Damn! Damn and double damn....wanders around confused, glancing at fence! Wistfully wishing to climb back up!

£3,000 a day????

If? and just if..... I had to suck a terrorist, refugee's penis.....would I have any choice in this?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"This?

EU referendum: Rules giving 'free pass' to terror suspects - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35921608

The people committing the terrorism is not middle Eastern Muslims the problem is second and third generation western Muslims, however the motive maybe middle Eastern problems"

I don't see how your comment relates to what I've said. My comment is about terrorist migration within EU and non EU countries yet you've told me how natural residents are the problem - this is not a response to what I've said, it's a different point entirely.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Have you signed up to BNP weekly without realising?

Lol.

We need to stay in if they're using the old terrorism threat as a reason to leave. They always use this shit when desperate.

The Remain side have been using arguments about cooperation with the EU to combat terror threats, so does that also mean the Remain side are desperate if they are using that as a reason to stay? "

I suspect you're gonna fucking implode when we remain in the EU. Or you'll just have nothing to talk about.

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By *eliz NelsonMan over a year ago

The Tantric Tea Shop

"The EU are forcing Britain to accept terror suspects into the country under EU rules. Fact. How can the remain campaign defend that?

Damn! That EU....climbs off fence 'I'm out!.... hang on! Is this true!!

its here,clear as day, right here on the internet....so of course it is!

Damn! Damn and double damn....wanders around confused, glancing at fence! Wistfully wishing to climb back up!

£3,000 a day????

If? and just if..... I had to suck a terrorist, refugee's penis.....would I have any choice in this?

I meant as in! Right thats £3,000 son and off you go....you are sucking refugee terrorist number 245's penis..

''But I don't want to!''

''Sorry but you have no choice, ahem £3,000! cough up!''

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

"Have you signed up to BNP weekly without realising?

Lol.

We need to stay in if they're using the old terrorism threat as a reason to leave. They always use this shit when desperate.

The Remain side have been using arguments about cooperation with the EU to combat terror threats, so does that also mean the Remain side are desperate if they are using that as a reason to stay?

I suspect you're gonna fucking implode when we remain in the EU. Or you'll just have nothing to talk about. "

Plenty to talk about on a wide range of subjects, a quick look at my green arrow would confirm that. Besides I suspect there are a few people on the other side who may implode when we leave the EU.

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By *elvet RopeMan over a year ago

by the big field

"Michael Gove, the Secretary of State for Justice, states that.............in tomorrows Daily Telegraph."

In which case, I'd say that's 107% true

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Have you signed up to BNP weekly without realising?

Lol.

We need to stay in if they're using the old terrorism threat as a reason to leave. They always use this shit when desperate.

The Remain side have been using arguments about cooperation with the EU to combat terror threats, so does that also mean the Remain side are desperate if they are using that as a reason to stay? "

quite the paradox.

i say both sides are getting desperate then. and i'm imagining a buttered cat spinning.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Have you signed up to BNP weekly without realising?

Brexit campaigner Michael Gove giving an interview for the Daily Telegraph, run by Brexiteer Rupert Murdoch, simplifying a highly complex issue with binary headline fodder. I'm sure we'll get an exceptionally unbiased viewpoint from that.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

"This?

EU referendum: Rules giving 'free pass' to terror suspects - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35921608

That's still not a credible source if you read the article.

That's like posting a link to a report of DC saying leaving will start WWIII, and then stating 'leaving the EU will start WWIII' as fact

Mr ddc

It always amazes me how cross BTEXITers get when anyone challenges the validity of their, so called, facts. I would suggest that, if you have a valid point to make then make it and substantiate it. Don't expect everyone to just accept it as fact because you said so.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

"The EU are forcing Britain to accept terror suspects into the country under EU rules. Fact. How can the remain campaign defend that?

again how would that have help in the case of 7/7 where they were all homegrown...

and more interesting though... side the leave side say that "irish citizens will be exempt from any changes"..... it wouldn't have made a jot of difference during the troubles.....

the fact is if they do pose a clear and present danger to the country on entry... they CAN be stopped...

so who do you have in mind and what cases have "slipped thru the net" of people here that would have been stopped under the new rules... that were not stopped under the current ones?

You'll have to ask the Secretary of State for Justice that because he is the one who said he has had to let terrorist suspects into the country due to EU rules."

Well maybe he should do his job at the department of Justice and leave border control and immigration to Teresa May at the Home Office, who's job it is to decide who can and can't come into the UK.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Have you signed up to BNP weekly without realising?

If it is true....why didnt dear old Michael Gove say something at the time? Where were his principles then?

What is the definition of a 'suspect' on this occasion? Im pretty sure that many people who are 'suspects' are not ever charged and a large number turn out to be completely inmocent....even ones who get convicted.....Birmingham Bombers anyone?

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By *iss_tressWoman over a year ago

London

It appears every muslim *I've* seem on tv/heard on the train/canteen at work discussing the referendum will be voting/hoping for an out vote.

It could be confirmation bias on my part, I don't know, but if the people we "fear" (appear) to want out...

Not sure what my point is...just musing I guess.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS over a year ago

Central

"The EU are forcing Britain to accept terror suspects into the country under EU rules. Fact. How can the remain campaign defend that?

Simple.

It's bollocks.

Next?

Mr.ddc"

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Both sides are coming out with some real crap the last few days, keep going like this and everyone going to be so pissed off with it all no one will vote.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Both sides are coming out with some real crap the last few days, keep going like this and everyone going to be so pissed off with it all no one will vote."

Very true. Im embarressed by both sides. Is there a 3rd option?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"This?

EU referendum: Rules giving 'free pass' to terror suspects - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35921608

That's still not a credible source if you read the article.

That's like posting a link to a report of DC saying leaving will start WWIII, and then stating 'leaving the EU will start WWIII' as fact

Mr ddc

How the fuck do you know which I'm going to vote? For fuck sake all i did was find the cunting article he was talking about!!

. I'll Probably end up voting in because of the nature of the work i do through my limited company... Not that its any of your fucking bussiness!!!!

I hate the way "remainers" sit behind huge clouds of self satisfied smugness.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

whats a BTEXITer; care to educate me

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

whats a BTEXITer; care to educate me

Someone who works for BT and likes TEXTing?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Have you signed up to BNP weekly without realising?

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By *errygTV/TS over a year ago

denton

wouldnt surprise me terror suspects allowed to enter, at least we know there are here, if we dont let them in offically , if they want to come here they will get in illegally, but as a prev post we breed our own terrorist as well, and as for BNP havent they gone bankrupt

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By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

"This?

EU referendum: Rules giving 'free pass' to terror suspects - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35921608

That's still not a credible source if you read the article.

That's like posting a link to a report of DC saying leaving will start WWIII, and then stating 'leaving the EU will start WWIII' as fact

Mr ddc

How the fuck do you know which I'm going to vote? For fuck sake all i did was find the cunting article he was talking about!!

. I'll Probably end up voting in because of the nature of the work i do through my limited company... Not that its any of your fucking bussiness!!!!

I hate the way "remainers" sit behind huge clouds of self satisfied smugness."

I think you'll probably vote out because the sort of fowl language you use and the way you personally attack anyone who questions anything you say is typical of a BREXIT supporters. I could be wrong, but I doubt it.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

"Have you signed up to BNP weekly without realising?

What a pure ignorant comment. Do some research instead of making glib comments."

oh the irony..

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I think you'll probably vote out because the sort of fowl language you use and the way you personally attack anyone who questions anything you say is typical of a BREXIT supporters. I could be wrong, but I doubt it."

you class me that way too? Unleashed Craken

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

"and all that is well and good.... but it wouldn't have helped for example with 7/7..... because they were all home grown bombers......

Oh no did we sign up to Shengen whilst i was cutting the grass..?

no one has said that if we stay we will sign up to Shengen, given it'll be the status quo with a few tweaks if we stay then we wont be in Shengen then either..

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Have you signed up to BNP weekly without realising?

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

"The EU are forcing Britain to accept terror suspects into the country under EU rules. Fact. How can the remain campaign defend that?

again how would that have help in the case of 7/7 where they were all homegrown...

and more interesting though... side the leave side say that "irish citizens will be exempt from any changes"..... it wouldn't have made a jot of difference during the troubles.....

the fact is if they do pose a clear and present danger to the country on entry... they CAN be stopped...

so who do you have in mind and what cases have "slipped thru the net" of people here that would have been stopped under the new rules... that were not stopped under the current ones?

You'll have to ask the Secretary of State for Justice that because he is the one who said he has had to let terrorist suspects into the country due to EU rules.

well then shouldn't he give us some examples then....otherwise are just not parroting his soundbites with no evidence.....

Have you got proof that no terror suspect has ever been allowed into the country?"

and therein is the complete lack of any viable position on your behalf OP..

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By *an_WoodMan over a year ago

Stafford

"Have you signed up to BNP weekly without realising?

Fucking pinko commie bastards vote Nixon

Sorry flashback to old yank cartoons.

Carry on as you are

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"This?

EU referendum: Rules giving 'free pass' to terror suspects - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35921608

That's still not a credible source if you read the article.

That's like posting a link to a report of DC saying leaving will start WWIII, and then stating 'leaving the EU will start WWIII' as fact

Mr ddc

How the fuck do you know which I'm going to vote? For fuck sake all i did was find the cunting article he was talking about!!

. I'll Probably end up voting in because of the nature of the work i do through my limited company... Not that its any of your fucking bussiness!!!!

I hate the way "remainers" sit behind huge clouds of self satisfied smugness.

Wrong on all counts. Typical of people like you.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I'm voting in, but in reality it's about 50/50 how things are going to be after the vote anyway.

The reason I'm voting to remain is the brexit campaign, there's a lot of ignorance among my the brexit supporters that I know (note I said the ones I know) about immigration, wether we are in or out we are never going to stop the hordes of ILLEGAL immigrants trying to get to Britain, it's not going to mean repatriation of migrant workers from the EU that are already here, so all it will stop is decent hard working people coming to fill the skills gap.

You can also say goodbye to the European arrest warrant, so if someone from an EU country comits a crime in the UK it's going to be a lot harder to bring him to justice.

Also being out of the EU, is there any incentive for EU countries to help protect our borders, I mean France could think "fuck em, it's their problem now" and just let them through.

As someone said, most terrorist acts are committed by home grown extremists, so you can close the borders all you want, it won't change anything.

And lastly, I hear a lot of brexiters talking about Britain seen through red white and blue specs, if you want Britain to be the Britain of legend, would it not be the right thing to do, to remain, and take over the EU and force them to do what we wanted them to do? It do you have no faith in Britain anymore?

You can quote answer this post all you want, but understand this, I have no intrest in arguing with brexiters, this is my opinion, and I'm allowed my own opinion even under EU law, so I'll just leave this post and wait for the back lash, so I can ignore it

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By *ensualtouch15Man over a year ago

ashby de la zouch

"I'd be more worried about the people who we don't know are terrorists."

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By *ensualtouch15Man over a year ago

ashby de la zouch

"I'd be more worried about the people who we don't know are terrorists.

In fact ? Let them in with our alleged superior intelligence and surveillance forces if they are indeed not just suspected but really are naughty they will lead us to others that may not be yet suspected who are in this country already

So voting in means the EU will share it's suspects data with us , voting out means they may not and the UK will have less data

That's rubbish of course , Europe will share just as the US does but the tape will be a shade more red?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I'd be more worried about the people who we don't know are terrorists.

So voting in means the EU will share it's suspects data with us , voting out means they may not and the UK will have less data

That's rubbish of course , Europe will share just as the US does but the tape will be a shade more red?

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By *KMaxMan over a year ago

Bristol

"I never trust people who make comments like this without citing a credible source*, then write FACT at the end of their sentence.

FACT.

*Not BF or The Sun."

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By *arry247Couple over a year ago

Wakefield

"The EU are forcing Britain to accept terror suspects into the country under EU rules. Fact. How can the remain campaign defend that?

again how would that have help in the case of 7/7 where they were all homegrown...

and more interesting though... side the leave side say that "irish citizens will be exempt from any changes"..... it wouldn't have made a jot of difference during the troubles.....

the fact is if they do pose a clear and present danger to the country on entry... they CAN be stopped...

so who do you have in mind and what cases have "slipped thru the net" of people here that would have been stopped under the new rules... that were not stopped under the current ones?"

That is true but what the MP said was also true

"EU nationals whose activities are of concern but about whom there is no clear intelligence have a "free pass" into the UK due to free movement rules."

The fact that the original poster distorted the quote does not make the original statement wrong.

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

"This?

EU referendum: Rules giving 'free pass' to terror suspects - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35921608

That's still not a credible source if you read the article.

That's like posting a link to a report of DC saying leaving will start WWIII, and then stating 'leaving the EU will start WWIII' as fact

Mr ddc

How the fuck do you know which I'm going to vote? For fuck sake all i did was find the cunting article he was talking about!!

. I'll Probably end up voting in because of the nature of the work i do through my limited company... Not that its any of your fucking bussiness!!!!

I hate the way "remainers" sit behind huge clouds of self satisfied smugness.

Its always funny to see Remainers use the same lazy stereotyping of Brexiters, i'm sure Sir Ian Botham would love to know what you really think of him.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJCPo3SaQD8

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

"and all that is well and good.... but it wouldn't have helped for example with 7/7..... because they were all home grown bombers......

Oh no did we sign up to Shengen whilst i was cutting the grass..?

no one has said that if we stay we will sign up to Shengen, given it'll be the status quo with a few tweaks if we stay then we wont be in Shengen then either..

Status Quo with a few Tweaks if we Remain, you are having a laugh. We are not part of Schengen at the present time but who knows what the future of the EU has in store for us if we stay? The EU five presidents report gives the layout of the next EU Treaty. In it is writtwn that the whole of the EU will move towards ever closer political union and monetary union, and all that brings with it. If you keep on having ever closer political union and ever closer monetary union it inevitably means one day you must reach full political union and full monetary union, in effect a united states of Europe, which will be a federal system of government for the whole of the EU with one centralised government in Brussels. At present we are subject to the EU free movement of people rules, so we must let anyone with an EU passport into Britain, unless there are extreme grounds to refuse entry.

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By *horehouseCouple over a year ago

dissatisfied

"and all that is well and good.... but it wouldn't have helped for example with 7/7..... because they were all home grown bombers......

Oh no did we sign up to Shengen whilst i was cutting the grass..?

no one has said that if we stay we will sign up to Shengen, given it'll be the status quo with a few tweaks if we stay then we wont be in Shengen then either..

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By *hingford manMan over a year ago

highams park East London

"Have you signed up to BNP weekly without realising?"

Oh dear still somany trying to play the racist card for wanting out of an unelected unaccountable EU

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

"and all that is well and good.... but it wouldn't have helped for example with 7/7..... because they were all home grown bombers......

Oh no did we sign up to Shengen whilst i was cutting the grass..?

no one has said that if we stay we will sign up to Shengen, given it'll be the status quo with a few tweaks if we stay then we wont be in Shengen then either..

if's, buts and maybe's which seems to sum up the information coming from the Brexit camp..

they have lost the economic argument so its more of the same hyperbole and fear based on grossly speculating ..

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By *its_n_piecesCouple over a year ago

" i'm sure Sir Ian Botham would love to know what you really think of him.

i think he's just one of many blokes who has a ridiculous moustache that makes him look like a bellend .... he used to play cricket well though

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

if's, buts and maybe's which seems to sum up the information coming from the Remain camp..

they have lost the economic argument so its more of the same hyperbole and fear based on grossly speculating .."

Of course the best thing about remaining in the EU will be the (at least) six years of Osbourne's premiership...

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By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

you class me that way too? Unleashed Craken"

No, but the few exceptions tend to highlight the rule.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

"This?

EU referendum: Rules giving 'free pass' to terror suspects - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35921608

That's still not a credible source if you read the article.

That's like posting a link to a report of DC saying leaving will start WWIII, and then stating 'leaving the EU will start WWIII' as fact

Mr ddc

How the fuck do you know which I'm going to vote? For fuck sake all i did was find the cunting article he was talking about!!

. I'll Probably end up voting in because of the nature of the work i do through my limited company... Not that its any of your fucking bussiness!!!!

I hate the way "remainers" sit behind huge clouds of self satisfied smugness.

Wrong on all counts. Typical of people like you."

I hope I am wrong.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

you class me that way too? Unleashed Craken

No, but the few exceptions tend to highlight the rule."

Still not really seeing the "personal attacks" that you're personally attacking me for...

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

if's, buts and maybe's which seems to sum up the information coming from the Remain camp..

they have lost the economic argument so its more of the same hyperbole and fear based on grossly speculating ..

Of course the best thing about remaining in the EU will be the (at least) six years of Osbourne's premiership..."

him or Boris..?

given a choice i would prefer May..

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By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

"Have you signed up to BNP weekly without realising?

Oh dear still somany trying to play the racist card for wanting out of an unelected unaccountable EU"

I think most reasonable people with BREMAIN accept that wanting to leave the EU is not necessarily racist, however I personally think that the BREXIT campaign needs to be constantly vigilante of the danger of being led down the racist route. Some comments made by some UKIPers some time ago clearly have been. I accept that UKIP kicked then out but there is no denying that the BREXIT argument, while not necessarily racist, definitely appeals to people who are.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

if's, buts and maybe's which seems to sum up the information coming from the Remain camp..

they have lost the economic argument so its more of the same hyperbole and fear based on grossly speculating ..

Of course the best thing about remaining in the EU will be the (at least) six years of Osbourne's premiership...

him or Boris..?

given a choice i would prefer May.."

It'll only be Boris if exit win.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

if's, buts and maybe's which seems to sum up the information coming from the Remain camp..

they have lost the economic argument so its more of the same hyperbole and fear based on grossly speculating ..

Of course the best thing about remaining in the EU will be the (at least) six years of Osbourne's premiership...

him or Boris..?

given a choice i would prefer May..

It'll only be Boris if exit win."

aware of that yes..

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By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

if's, buts and maybe's which seems to sum up the information coming from the Remain camp..

they have lost the economic argument so its more of the same hyperbole and fear based on grossly speculating ..

Of course the best thing about remaining in the EU will be the (at least) six years of Osbourne's premiership..."

Whether we get Osbourne, Corbyn, Boris or any other person as next PM is irrelevant to the EU referendum. Who ever we get will only be there 5 to 10 years. If we leave or stay in the EU it will be unchangeable for 40 or more years.

Vote leave or remain on the EU only, not on some perceived party political advantage.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

if's, buts and maybe's which seems to sum up the information coming from the Remain camp..

they have lost the economic argument so its more of the same hyperbole and fear based on grossly speculating ..

Of course the best thing about remaining in the EU will be the (at least) six years of Osbourne's premiership...

him or Boris..?

given a choice i would prefer May..

It'll only be Boris if exit win."

Not if they actually want to win the next election it won't. May has played a quite, clever strategy and could be seen as the only candidate with any chance of reuniting the party.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Anyway vote remain. Because i love working alongside Germans while I'm earning 4 times their hourly rate

. And then get Labour back in so they can reduce my income tax again

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

"Have you signed up to BNP weekly without realising?

Oh dear still somany trying to play the racist card for wanting out of an unelected unaccountable EU

Once again I'm sure Sir Ian Botham would love to know you think of him in that way.

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

if's, buts and maybe's which seems to sum up the information coming from the Remain camp..

they have lost the economic argument so its more of the same hyperbole and fear based on grossly speculating ..

Of course the best thing about remaining in the EU will be the (at least) six years of Osbourne's premiership...

him or Boris..?

given a choice i would prefer May..

It'll only be Boris if exit win.

Not if they actually want to win the next election it won't. May has played a quite, clever strategy and could be seen as the only candidate with any chance of reuniting the party."

You don't see Boris as a vote winner then? He won the London Mayor seat more than once so I think that alone speaks volumes about his vote winning capacity.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

if's, buts and maybe's which seems to sum up the information coming from the Remain camp..

they have lost the economic argument so its more of the same hyperbole and fear based on grossly speculating ..

Of course the best thing about remaining in the EU will be the (at least) six years of Osbourne's premiership...

him or Boris..?

given a choice i would prefer May..

It'll only be Boris if exit win.

Not if they actually want to win the next election it won't. May has played a quite, clever strategy and could be seen as the only candidate with any chance of reuniting the party.

You don't see Boris as a vote winner then? He won the London Mayor seat more than once so I think that alone speaks volumes about his vote winning capacity. "

So did Ken. Both made pretty good mayors to. But neither of them would make a good PM. Horses for courses.

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By *an_WoodMan over a year ago

Stafford

if's, buts and maybe's which seems to sum up the information coming from the Remain camp..

they have lost the economic argument so its more of the same hyperbole and fear based on grossly speculating ..

Of course the best thing about remaining in the EU will be the (at least) six years of Osbourne's premiership...

him or Boris..?

given a choice i would prefer May..

It'll only be Boris if exit win.

Not if they actually want to win the next election it won't. May has played a quite, clever strategy and could be seen as the only candidate with any chance of reuniting the party.

You don't see Boris as a vote winner then? He won the London Mayor seat more than once so I think that alone speaks volumes about his vote winning capacity. "

Ambition before friends, party or country and he's still an eton wanker

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

if's, buts and maybe's which seems to sum up the information coming from the Remain camp..

they have lost the economic argument so its more of the same hyperbole and fear based on grossly speculating ..

Of course the best thing about remaining in the EU will be the (at least) six years of Osbourne's premiership...

him or Boris..?

given a choice i would prefer May..

It'll only be Boris if exit win.

Not if they actually want to win the next election it won't. May has played a quite, clever strategy and could be seen as the only candidate with any chance of reuniting the party.

You don't see Boris as a vote winner then? He won the London Mayor seat more than once so I think that alone speaks volumes about his vote winning capacity.

Ambition before friends, party or country and he's still an eton wanker

I don't mind him going to Eton and, given that all men are either wankers or liars, I'd class Boris as a liar. I used to just think he was a wanker and was happy enough to vote for him but now I know he's a liar who just acts like a wanker it's definitely no vote for him from me.

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

[Removed by poster at 03/06/16 01:11:25]

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

if's, buts and maybe's which seems to sum up the information coming from the Remain camp..

they have lost the economic argument so its more of the same hyperbole and fear based on grossly speculating ..

Of course the best thing about remaining in the EU will be the (at least) six years of Osbourne's premiership...

him or Boris..?

given a choice i would prefer May..

It'll only be Boris if exit win.

Not if they actually want to win the next election it won't. May has played a quite, clever strategy and could be seen as the only candidate with any chance of reuniting the party.

You don't see Boris as a vote winner then? He won the London Mayor seat more than once so I think that alone speaks volumes about his vote winning capacity.

Ambition before friends, party or country and he's still an eton wanker

David Cameron a liar when he promised everyone in his general election manifesto that he would cut immigration down to less than 100,000 per year. He knows he can't control immigration while we are members of the EU so he lied.

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By *an_WoodMan over a year ago

Stafford

if's, buts and maybe's which seems to sum up the information coming from the Remain camp..

they have lost the economic argument so its more of the same hyperbole and fear based on grossly speculating ..

Of course the best thing about remaining in the EU will be the (at least) six years of Osbourne's premiership...

him or Boris..?

given a choice i would prefer May..

It'll only be Boris if exit win.

Not if they actually want to win the next election it won't. May has played a quite, clever strategy and could be seen as the only candidate with any chance of reuniting the party.

You don't see Boris as a vote winner then? He won the London Mayor seat more than once so I think that alone speaks volumes about his vote winning capacity.

Ambition before friends, party or country and he's still an eton wanker

And Boris abandoned London as soon as he had a few good headlines about being a possible future Tory leader. Maybe a media whore

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

if's, buts and maybe's which seems to sum up the information coming from the Remain camp..

they have lost the economic argument so its more of the same hyperbole and fear based on grossly speculating ..

Of course the best thing about remaining in the EU will be the (at least) six years of Osbourne's premiership...

him or Boris..?

given a choice i would prefer May..

It'll only be Boris if exit win.

Not if they actually want to win the next election it won't. May has played a quite, clever strategy and could be seen as the only candidate with any chance of reuniting the party.

You don't see Boris as a vote winner then? He won the London Mayor seat more than once so I think that alone speaks volumes about his vote winning capacity.

Ambition before friends, party or country and he's still an eton wanker

A lie is a statement that the stating party believes to be false and that is made with the intention to deceive. The practice of communicating lies is called lying, and a person who communicates a lie may be termed a liar.

To make a commitment that you want to achieve something but then fail to achieve it is not lying and does not make the person saying it a liar. On the other hand saying we pay £350 million to the EU every day when you know the real figure is £260 million gross and £150 million net is lying and makes the person saying at liar.

And the second lie in this campaign is the BREXIT campaign's lie that leaving the EU will allow the UK to reduce or control immigration. How exactly will it do that?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

if's, buts and maybe's which seems to sum up the information coming from the Remain camp..

they have lost the economic argument so its more of the same hyperbole and fear based on grossly speculating ..

Of course the best thing about remaining in the EU will be the (at least) six years of Osbourne's premiership...

him or Boris..?

given a choice i would prefer May..

It'll only be Boris if exit win.

Not if they actually want to win the next election it won't. May has played a quite, clever strategy and could be seen as the only candidate with any chance of reuniting the party.

You don't see Boris as a vote winner then? He won the London Mayor seat more than once so I think that alone speaks volumes about his vote winning capacity.

Ambition before friends, party or country and he's still an eton wanker

And the second lie in this campaign is the BREXIT campaign's lie that leaving the EU will allow the UK to reduce or control immigration. How exactly will it do that?"

Yes so therefore Cameron lied. He knew it was impossible and didn't want to reduce it anyway.

If an employer tells you that you will be paid a salary of 50k yet only 35k lands in your bank account, have they lied?

And there are numerous ways to control immigration, too many to mention here

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

" To make a commitment that you want to achieve something but then fail to achieve it is not lying and does not make the person saying it a liar. On the other hand saying we pay £350 million to the EU every day when you know the real figure is £260 million gross and £150 million net is lying and makes the person saying at liar. "

Misquoting someone knowing it wrong is a lie. You just lied. The 'Leave' campaign say its £350 Mn a WEEK not a DAY.

What HM Treasury said was paid to the EU in 2014:

Gross: £19.2 Bn or £369.2 Mn a week.

Rebate:£ 4.9 Bn or £ 94.2 Mn a week.

Nett: £14.4 Bn or £276.9 Mn a week.

(An increase of 18.1% since 2010 by the way).

" And the second lie in this campaign is the BREXIT campaign's lie that leaving the EU will allow the UK to reduce or control immigration. How exactly will it do that? "

There is no lie here at all but what part of having control over your borders and therefore the quality and numbers of immigrants don't you quite understand? We can control non-EU migrants but have to discriminate against them to keep the numbers down as much as possible because we have NO control of the migrants coming from the EU. Remember when Blair said it would be 'about 30,000'. It is now nearly 3 million. 650,000 new NI numbers issued alone last year to EU migrants. A number that is like two Birminghams being created every year. When we leave and take control we can decide what our needs are for skills and abilities to improve our economy, how we can prioritise UK citizens, manage the numbers of people we NEED here (as migrants add a huge amount to our country, economy and culture) and make sure we have the schools, housing and infrastructure in place to accommodate the numbers WE decide should be here.

That is called a factual statement not a lie....

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By *its_n_piecesCouple over a year ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41_5fyqNbE8&feature=youtu.be

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By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

if's, buts and maybe's which seems to sum up the information coming from the Remain camp..

they have lost the economic argument so its more of the same hyperbole and fear based on grossly speculating ..

Of course the best thing about remaining in the EU will be the (at least) six years of Osbourne's premiership...

him or Boris..?

given a choice i would prefer May..

It'll only be Boris if exit win.

Not if they actually want to win the next election it won't. May has played a quite, clever strategy and could be seen as the only candidate with any chance of reuniting the party.

You don't see Boris as a vote winner then? He won the London Mayor seat more than once so I think that alone speaks volumes about his vote winning capacity.

Ambition before friends, party or country and he's still an eton wanker

And the second lie in this campaign is the BREXIT campaign's lie that leaving the EU will allow the UK to reduce or control immigration. How exactly will it do that?

Yes so therefore Cameron lied. He knew it was impossible and didn't want to reduce it anyway.

If an employer tells you that you will be paid a salary of 50k yet only 35k lands in your bank account, have they lied?

And there are numerous ways to control immigration, too many to mention here"

Just one would be could place to start.

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By *otblondewife hornyMrCouple over a year ago

Cambuslang

The UK's foreign policy exposes it to terrorism.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

My Postal Vote arrived today;

Vote only once by putting a cross X in the box next to your choice

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or Leave the European Union

I put my cross in the box stating "Leave the European Union" - X

postal vote sent

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By *its_n_piecesCouple over a year ago

pre-election pledges are not legally binding unfortunately .... all politicians say they are going to deliver what they can't deliver .... always have, always will.... so to single out what's been said over the movement of people to suit one's own agenda as regards the referendum is bollocks.

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By *errygTV/TS over a year ago

denton

i go into local bank the front of house lady is romanian, and what a nice lady she is, but nowt like the dross that wander down canal st selling tat, they are also romanian, must admit i hate the latter does that make me racist for wanting to leave EU,we should have aussie system where only decent types are allowed in

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"pre-election pledges are not legally binding unfortunately .... all politicians say they are going to deliver what they can't deliver .... always have, always will.... so to single out what's been said over the movement of people to suit one's own agenda as regards the referendum is bollocks."

But this isn't an election is it? That is the big mistake Cameron and Osborne have made. They are arguing with and slagging off half the UK population and treating us 'Brexiters' like another political party. We aren't. We are the people that hold their future in our hands and we won't forget.

What is being offered by the 'Remainers' is Project Fear. It is the Establishment and cronies who are shit scared of doing their duty and putting country before politics and profit and seeing their cosy lifestyles being changed. They can shelter behind the EU and all do rather nicely thank you. But we Brits are made of better stuff IMHO.

We need to take back our country, our democracy and our sovereignty by getting out from under the Socialist political EU project that is heading one way towards a Federal U.S.E. but is failing in everything it does. Are Italy, Spain and Greece doing OK? No they aren't. Is migration under control? No it isn't. Is the Euro doing well? No it isn't. The only reason they want us in there is for our £14.3 Bn we paid them (Nett) last year. We are the second biggest contributor. Oh and the £61 Bn trade surplus the wonderful 'Single Market' gives Germany and their mates selling to us.

Just think about this for a second when you vote: Who does the EU REALLY benefit? Its not the UK. We are being taken for a bunch of mugs and they laugh at us all the way to their bank accounts. We paid them £14.3 Bn to 'remain' and we sent a further £61 Bn in trade deficit currency. That is £75 Bn last year alone. That is more than the cost of our total National Deficit.

Vote OUT and lets have our own Independence Day on June 24th....

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"i go into local bank the front of house lady is romanian, and what a nice lady she is, but nowt like the dross that wander down canal st selling tat, they are also romanian, must admit i hate the latter does that make me racist for wanting to leave EU,we should have aussie system where only decent types are allowed in"

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Leaving the EU won't keep the "terrorists" out. If they want to come into the UK, they will find a way no matter what. Heck, a lot of real terrorists tend to be the "home grown" British residents who get sent over to the middle east and then come back with no hassle as they are already British citizens.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

Misquoting someone knowing it wrong is a lie. You just lied. The 'Leave' campaign say its £350 Mn a WEEK not a DAY. "
I accept and know that the figure is per week, not per day. That was a mistake on my behalf. I should have reread my post before clicking send.
"

What HM Treasury said was paid to the EU in 2014:

Gross: £19.2 Bn or £369.2 Mn a week.

Rebate:£ 4.9 Bn or £ 94.2 Mn a week.

Nett: £14.4 Bn or £276.9 Mn a week.

And there's the BREXIT lie again. We don't pay £370 million a week and than get £95 million back. We never pay the £95 million ever. We pay £275 million gross and then get about another £100 million back in direct benefits. So the gross figure is about £275 million and the net figure is about £175 million (the actual figures I've found are £20 million lower than yours but I'm happy to use yours). It's simply completely untrue to say we pay £370 million pounds a day when we don't.

(An increase of 18.1% since 2010 by the way).

And the second lie in this campaign is the BREXIT campaign's lie that leaving the EU will allow the UK to reduce or control immigration. How exactly will it do that?

There is no lie here at all but what part of having control over your borders and therefore the quality and numbers of immigrants don't you quite understand?"

I think it's you that do not understand actually. We do already control are own borders but we currently let half or more migrants into this country from outside the EU and already have total control of that number if we choose to. Of the half that is from the EU there is know way of knowing how many of those are actually UK citizens returning from living and working within the EU, Some estimates but this figure as high as 50%. We also do not have to let anyone into this country, except UK citizens, who has committed a serious offence, does not have adequate health insurance to covet their stay or can not show they have the means to adequately support themselves.

So please tell me what this magical UKIP/BREXIT solution to immigration actually is because, so far, I've only heard BREXITERS say what they're going to achieve but never actually how they are going to achieve it.
"

We can control non-EU migrants but have to discriminate against them to keep the numbers down as much as possible because we have NO control of the migrants coming from the EU."
as already said, yes we do. It's simply another BREXIT lie to say that we can't do anything about EU migration and an even bigger lie to say that there is some 'magic bullet' solution that they have which will solve the immigration problem but then not actually tell anybody what it is.
" Remember when Blair said it would be 'about 30,000'. It is now nearly 3 million. 650,000 new NI numbers issued alone last year to EU migrants. A number that is like two Birminghams being created every year.

"
Well I never voted for him so I don't see why I should have to defend anything he said.
"When we leave and take control"
exactly what does that mean? We already have control of our borders now. Stop lying. Next you'll be telling us that our border force is run by Brussels to. It's total lies all the time from BREXIT, almost pathological.
" we can decide what our needs are for skills and abilities to improve our economy, how we can prioritise UK citizens, "
We already can and do priorities UK citizens as UK citizens are the only people who have an absolute right to enter, whether they have a criminal record, health insurance or the ability to support themselves.
" manage the numbers of people we NEED here (as migrants add a huge amount to our country, economy and culture) and make sure we have the schools, housing and infrastructure in place to accommodate the numbers WE decide should be here.

"
sounds wonderful but how is this going to be done. What policy is actually going to be introduced to achieve all this. I've still not heard one actual policy or action that will deliver any of this.
"

That is called a factual statement not a lie....

Actually it's called fantasy land and, like most fantacies, it's simple not based on any real truth.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Misquoting someone knowing it wrong is a lie. You just lied. The 'Leave' campaign say its £350 Mn a WEEK not a DAY. I accept and know that the figure is per week, not per day. That was a mistake on my behalf. I should have reread my post before clicking send.

What HM Treasury said was paid to the EU in 2014:

Gross: £19.2 Bn or £369.2 Mn a week.

Rebate:£ 4.9 Bn or £ 94.2 Mn a week.

Nett: £14.4 Bn or £276.9 Mn a week.

(An increase of 18.1% since 2010 by the way).

And the second lie in this campaign is the BREXIT campaign's lie that leaving the EU will allow the UK to reduce or control immigration. How exactly will it do that?

There is no lie here at all but what part of having control over your borders and therefore the quality and numbers of immigrants don't you quite understand?

We can control non-EU migrants but have to discriminate against them to keep the numbers down as much as possible because we have NO control of the migrants coming from the EU. as already said, yes we do. It's simply another BREXIT lie to say that we can't do anything about EU migration and an even bigger lie to say that there is some 'magic bullet' solution that they have which will solve the immigration problem but then not actually tell anybody what it is. Remember when Blair said it would be 'about 30,000'. It is now nearly 3 million. 650,000 new NI numbers issued alone last year to EU migrants. A number that is like two Birminghams being created every year.

Well I never voted for him so I don't see why I should have to defend anything he said.When we leave and take control exactly what does that mean? We already have control of our borders now. Stop lying. Next you'll be telling us that our border force is run by Brussels to. It's total lies all the time from BREXIT, almost pathological. we can decide what our needs are for skills and abilities to improve our economy, how we can prioritise UK citizens, We already can and do priorities UK citizens as UK citizens are the only people who have an absolute right to enter, whether they have a criminal record, health insurance or the ability to support themselves. manage the numbers of people we NEED here (as migrants add a huge amount to our country, economy and culture) and make sure we have the schools, housing and infrastructure in place to accommodate the numbers WE decide should be here.

sounds wonderful but how is this going to be done. What policy is actually going to be introduced to achieve all this. I've still not heard one actual policy or action that will deliver any of this.

That is called a factual statement not a lie....

Actually it's called fantasy land and, like most fantacies, it's simple not based on any real truth."

The truth is the EU is failing and failing millions of people. Now tell us that is a lie

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By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

Vote OUT and lets have our own Independence Day on June 24th...."

Whilst your £60 billion figure for the trade deficit is true your £14 billion net contribution is incorrect. The £14 billion is out gross contribution, after the rebate (which we never pay) and before direct benefits back. The actual net figure is closer to £9 billion (£8.6 actually)

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By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

Also adding a trade deficit figure to an cost figure is like adding apples and dolphins. The resulting figure has absolutely no meaning at all. You may as well include Pixie dust in the calculation also.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The EU's percentage of the world's economy is shrinking year on year. Is that a lie? Youth unemployment in the EU is at disastrous levels. Is that a lie? There will be a crisis in the Eurozone anytime soon causing more hardship for the poorer countries. Is that a lie? Etc etc etc. Wake up

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By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

So, let me get this clear. UKIP/BRRXIT want to reduce or control immigration into the UK and, in order to do that they want to introduce an Australian style points system.

The Australian points based system was designed to meet the needs of Australia, a sparsely populated country on the other side of the world. A system that was specifically designed to encourage immigrants into Australia and has achieved that. Immigration into Australia per head of population is 2 to 3 times higher than immigration levels in the UK.

This is the great BREXIT/UKIP solution to the UK's immigration problem. Adopt a system designed for a country the other side of the world to solve the complete opposite problem to the one BREXIT/UKIP actually say the problem is.

If the Australian points based system was adopted her and had the same affect her as it has had in Australia we would be looking at immigration into the UK of over 1,000,000 a year from all over the world, not just Europe.

Do BRXITers ever actually check anything before coming out with what they say. An Australian points based system may work well to meet the needs of a sparsely populated country on the other side of the world that wants more immigrants to come but that's not what this country needs right now.

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By *horehouseCouple over a year ago

dissatisfied

"The EU's percentage of the world's economy is shrinking year on year. Is that a lie? Youth unemployment in the EU is at disastrous levels. Is that a lie? There will be a crisis in the Eurozone anytime soon causing more hardship for the poorer countries. Is that a lie? Etc etc etc. Wake up"
leaving the EU will only harm youth employment in the UK .no major company has said it will invest heavily in the UK if it leaves but many companies have said scaling back in the UK may be required if we leave ..and playing with figures ie percentages wont help press your nonsensical point either leaving will mean less jobs not more therefore youth unemployment could get worse ..

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The EU's percentage of the world's economy is shrinking year on year. Is that a lie? Youth unemployment in the EU is at disastrous levels. Is that a lie? There will be a crisis in the Eurozone anytime soon causing more hardship for the poorer countries. Is that a lie? Etc etc etc. Wake upleaving the EU will only harm youth employment in the UK .no major company has said it will invest heavily in the UK if it leaves but many companies have said scaling back in the UK may be required if we leave ..and playing with figures ie percentages wont help press your nonsensical point either leaving will mean less jobs not more therefore youth unemployment could get worse .."

Nonsensical. Did you get your Residencia yet?

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By *horehouseCouple over a year ago

dissatisfied

"The EU's percentage of the world's economy is shrinking year on year. Is that a lie? Youth unemployment in the EU is at disastrous levels. Is that a lie? There will be a crisis in the Eurozone anytime soon causing more hardship for the poorer countries. Is that a lie? Etc etc etc. Wake upleaving the EU will only harm youth employment in the UK .no major company has said it will invest heavily in the UK if it leaves but many companies have said scaling back in the UK may be required if we leave ..and playing with figures ie percentages wont help press your nonsensical point either leaving will mean less jobs not more therefore youth unemployment could get worse ..

Nonsensical. Did you get your Residencia yet?"
nope but guess what in a land of unemployment as you see it I have this week started work guess you were wrong about obtaining work over here ...

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By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

"The EU's percentage of the world's economy is shrinking year on year. Is that a lie?

No, it's not a lie but it is misleading.

The EU is the largest and richest trading area in the world. Because it's so much bigger and richer than most of these so called emerging economies a small amount of growth in the EU's economy is worth a lot more than a large amount of growth in a smaller poor economy.

"Youth unemployment in the EU is at disastrous levels. Is that a lie?"
No but leading people to believe that the UK leaving the EU is either going to insulate ud from the problems that that might cause or actually in some way make things better for them probably is
" There will be a crisis in the Eurozone anytime soon causing more hardship for the poorer countries. Is that a lie? "
Actually that's a supposition. It may be right, it may be wrong. The amount of truthfulness in the supposition can't be judged, only the credibility can be judged by the amount of Authoritative voice that back it up.
" Etc etc etc. Wake up"

I am awake and am doing everything I can to stop people, who simply can't or won't look at the reality of what they are proposing, sleepwalking my country into a financial recession that will cost us millions and hurt the youth of this country for absolutely no gain whatsoever.

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

" To make a commitment that you want to achieve something but then fail to achieve it

What HM Treasury said was paid to the EU in 2014:

Gross: £19.2 Bn or £369.2 Mn a week.

Rebate:£ 4.9 Bn or £ 94.2 Mn a week.

Nett: £14.4 Bn or £276.9 Mn a week.

(An increase of 18.1% since 2010 by the way).

That is called a factual statement not a lie....

Interesting that you used 2014's figures... Can I use 2015's because we actually paid less in and got more back

So using hm treasury figures for 2015

Should have been 17.8 billion... Minus the 4.9 billion rebate is 12.9 billion

The U.K. Got back another 6 billion ish in infrastructure projects plus subsidies in farming and fisheries

So the closer net sum is about 7 billion

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The EU's percentage of the world's economy is shrinking year on year. Is that a lie? Youth unemployment in the EU is at disastrous levels. Is that a lie? There will be a crisis in the Eurozone anytime soon causing more hardship for the poorer countries. Is that a lie? Etc etc etc. Wake upleaving the EU will only harm youth employment in the UK .no major company has said it will invest heavily in the UK if it leaves but many companies have said scaling back in the UK may be required if we leave ..and playing with figures ie percentages wont help press your nonsensical point either leaving will mean less jobs not more therefore youth unemployment could get worse .."
........Maybe you could explain why youth unemployment is so bad for those is Spain.Italy and Greece.

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By *horehouseCouple over a year ago

dissatisfied

"The EU's percentage of the world's economy is shrinking year on year. Is that a lie? Youth unemployment in the EU is at disastrous levels. Is that a lie? There will be a crisis in the Eurozone anytime soon causing more hardship for the poorer countries. Is that a lie? Etc etc etc. Wake upleaving the EU will only harm youth employment in the UK .no major company has said it will invest heavily in the UK if it leaves but many companies have said scaling back in the UK may be required if we leave ..and playing with figures ie percentages wont help press your nonsensical point either leaving will mean less jobs not more therefore youth unemployment could get worse ..........Maybe you could explain why youth unemployment is so bad for those is Spain.Italy and Greece."
maybe the youth dont actively seek work .....

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By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

"The EU's percentage of the world's economy is shrinking year on year. Is that a lie? Youth unemployment in the EU is at disastrous levels. Is that a lie? There will be a crisis in the Eurozone anytime soon causing more hardship for the poorer countries. Is that a lie? Etc etc etc. Wake upleaving the EU will only harm youth employment in the UK .no major company has said it will invest heavily in the UK if it leaves but many companies have said scaling back in the UK may be required if we leave ..and playing with figures ie percentages wont help press your nonsensical point either leaving will mean less jobs not more therefore youth unemployment could get worse ..........Maybe you could explain why youth unemployment is so bad for those is Spain.Italy and Greece."

There are a number of reasons. All those countries have overspent and under taxed. This has lead them into massive budget deficits which, because they foolishly joined the Euro ( and foolishly were allowed to join to) they cannot correct by devaluation of their currencies. Not everything in the EU is right and perfect and a badly implemented single currency is definitely one of not right or perfect things in Europe. But we are not in the Euro so it's not a question in the referendum.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

So, let me get this clear. UKIP/BRRXIT want to reduce or control immigration into the UK and, in order to do that they want to introduce an Australian style points system.

after reading that drivel I am so glad I have already voted "To Leave the European Union" - X

that is where the cross goes folks (incase you haven't got a Ballot paper yet)

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Interesting that you used 2014's figures... Can I use 2015's because we actually paid less in and got more back

So using hm treasury figures for 2015

Should have been 17.8 billion... Minus the 4.9 billion rebate is 12.9 billion

The U.K. Got back another 6 billion ish in infrastructure projects plus subsidies in farming and fisheries

So the closer net sum is about 7 billion "

that is why you do not work for the HM Treasury, your head is full of mince and incorrect figures

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The EU's percentage of the world's economy is shrinking year on year. Is that a lie? Youth unemployment in the EU is at disastrous levels. Is that a lie? There will be a crisis in the Eurozone anytime soon causing more hardship for the poorer countries. Is that a lie? Etc etc etc. Wake upleaving the EU will only harm youth employment in the UK .no major company has said it will invest heavily in the UK if it leaves but many companies have said scaling back in the UK may be required if we leave ..and playing with figures ie percentages wont help press your nonsensical point either leaving will mean less jobs not more therefore youth unemployment could get worse ..........Maybe you could explain why youth unemployment is so bad for those is Spain.Italy and Greece.

Really? How ignorant

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The EU's percentage of the world's economy is shrinking year on year. Is that a lie? Youth unemployment in the EU is at disastrous levels. Is that a lie? There will be a crisis in the Eurozone anytime soon causing more hardship for the poorer countries. Is that a lie? Etc etc etc. Wake upleaving the EU will only harm youth employment in the UK .no major company has said it will invest heavily in the UK if it leaves but many companies have said scaling back in the UK may be required if we leave ..and playing with figures ie percentages wont help press your nonsensical point either leaving will mean less jobs not more therefore youth unemployment could get worse ..

Nonsensical. Did you get your Residencia yet?nope but guess what in a land of unemployment as you see it I have this week started work guess you were wrong about obtaining work over here ... "

Illegal work is easy to get anywhere

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

No it don't. Who told you that?

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By *anchestercubMan over a year ago

manchester & NI

What a load of shit.

Under the EU citizenship directive, free movement can be denied on the grounds of ‘public policy, public security or public health’.

This applies to entry, exit and stay in a country.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

Interesting that you used 2014's figures... Can I use 2015's because we actually paid less in and got more back

So using hm treasury figures for 2015

Should have been 17.8 billion... Minus the 4.9 billion rebate is 12.9 billion

The U.K. Got back another 6 billion ish in infrastructure projects plus subsidies in farming and fisheries

So the closer net sum is about 7 billion

that is why you do not work for the HM Treasury, your head is full of mince and incorrect figures

It's not like you to sling the personal abuse. Until now you have been one of the few BREXITERS I actually thought put forward a reasonable case. Seems like you to have fallen for the BREXIT tactic of attacking the man rather than the argument.

Still, guess it's only to be expected.

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By *otlovefun42Couple over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

So, let me get this clear. UKIP/BRRXIT want to reduce or control immigration into the UK and, in order to do that they want to introduce an Australian style points system.

I think the clue is in the word "system"

Just because you adopt a system doesn't mean you have to use the exact same criteria.

It's not difficult to tailor an existing system to your own needs.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

its a simple yes or no question iv never seen so much drama made out of something so simple ... its two boxes pick one whats so hard about that ?

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By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

So, let me get this clear. UKIP/BRRXIT want to reduce or control immigration into the UK and, in order to do that they want to introduce an Australian style points system.

I think the clue is in the word "system"

Just because you adopt a system doesn't mean you have to use the exact same criteria.

It's not difficult to tailor an existing system to your own needs."

Thank god. Finally someone who talks a bit of sense. But doesn't it worry you that so many who are proposing this BREXIT have simply no idea what they're talking about.

And, if we really do leave the EU and decide to impose immigration restrictions on are European partners why not use an amended version of our own existing points based system that we currently use for non EU migrants now?

To be honest with you, whilst you generally don't, most of the BREXITERS just talk utter horse manure.

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By *its_n_piecesCouple over a year ago

But this isn't an election is it?"

doesn't matter if it's pre-election, post election, pre-referendum, christmas or fucking halloween all politicians say they're going to deliver what they can't deliver ...... in this case it's a referendum ..... "remains" project fear can't deliver and equally "leaves" project paranoia can't deliver .... but people still lap it up ..... it's all bollocks

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Just make em a brew and all will be fine

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By *its_n_piecesCouple over a year ago

"Just make em a brew and all will be fine

i'll have a special brew please

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Why can't we just rule ourselves ? Make our own laws ! Our own produce !

And live happily

Ah we can

If we all vote Out

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By *arry247Couple over a year ago

Wakefield

It is exactly the opposite, when the UK exits from the EU we will be able to trade more openly with the whole world rather than the EU and under EU rules.

In addition because the UK will no longer have to accept all EU passport holders unless they pose a direct threat we will be able to allow nationals from other countries from all over the world to bring their families to live with them here in the UK.

The remain campaign should ope their eyes and see it is them who impose isolationist policies on the EU against the rest of the world.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

" To make a commitment that you want to achieve something but then fail to achieve it

What HM Treasury said was paid to the EU in 2014:

Gross: £19.2 Bn or £369.2 Mn a week.

Rebate:£ 4.9 Bn or £ 94.2 Mn a week.

Nett: £14.4 Bn or £276.9 Mn a week.

(An increase of 18.1% since 2010 by the way).

That is called a factual statement not a lie....

Interesting that you used 2014's figures... Can I use 2015's because we actually paid less in and got more back

So using hm treasury figures for 2015

Should have been 17.8 billion... Minus the 4.9 billion rebate is 12.9 billion

The U.K. Got back another 6 billion ish in infrastructure projects plus subsidies in farming and fisheries

So the closer net sum is about 7 billion "

I used the 2014 figure because that was the last set from HM Treasury officially reported. You use other numbers if you wish.

But you distort the numbers wonderfully. That £12.9 Bn you quote (and lets accept the number for the sake of discussion) is what we paid in cash to the Eu. just like the 2014 figure of £14.3 Bn I quoted. The fact the EU kindly spends some of OUR money here is a total red herring. If we did not pay the nett figure (and I clearly showed the difference between Gross and Nett) we would have ALL of that money here to spend on whatever we deemed important not whatever the EU kindly decide to spend here would we not? So the cash spend to the EU is £14.3 Bn (2014) and £12.9 Bn (2015) is it not?

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By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

"Why can't we just rule ourselves ? Make our own laws ! Our own produce !

And live happily

Ah we can

If we all vote Out

So if we left the EU, you would never complain about a politician again? Because they would be good, honest, decent British politicians? Bollocks.

We are all the plebs at the bottom. We pay our taxes and we all get fucked by those at the top, it doesn’t matter if they are in the town council, Westminster or London.

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By *horehouseCouple over a year ago

dissatisfied

" To make a commitment that you want to achieve something but then fail to achieve it

What HM Treasury said was paid to the EU in 2014:

Gross: £19.2 Bn or £369.2 Mn a week.

Rebate:£ 4.9 Bn or £ 94.2 Mn a week.

Nett: £14.4 Bn or £276.9 Mn a week.

(An increase of 18.1% since 2010 by the way).

That is called a factual statement not a lie....

Interesting that you used 2014's figures... Can I use 2015's because we actually paid less in and got more back

So using hm treasury figures for 2015

Should have been 17.8 billion... Minus the 4.9 billion rebate is 12.9 billion

The U.K. Got back another 6 billion ish in infrastructure projects plus subsidies in farming and fisheries

So the closer net sum is about 7 billion

I used the 2014 figure because that was the last set from HM Treasury officially reported. You use other numbers if you wish.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

" Whilst your £60 billion figure for the trade deficit is true your £14 billion net contribution is incorrect. The £14 billion is out gross contribution, after the rebate (which we never pay) and before direct benefits back. The actual net figure is closer to £9 billion (£8.6 actually) "

That £14.3 Bn figure for 2014 was absolutely correct and it was the NETT sum we paid TO the EU after the Rebate was taken off the GROSS figure the EU levies on the UK. Someone else quoted a lower figure for 2015 but the principle is the same:

a) The EU levies a GROSS figure.

b) The UK pays a NETT figure in cash post Rebate.

c) The EU then may or may not spend some of our money back here in the UK.

The sum the EU spends here is used by Remainers like yourself to reduce the big number we pay to the EU by sleight of hand and confuse the discussion. It is actually irrelevant to the discussion. If we left the EU and did NOT pay that Nett £14.3 Bn (or £12.9 Bn) to the EU we would have ALL of that money to spend as WE choose right here. Not how the EU chooses. Is that not correct?

And you dismiss that £61 Bn trade deficit? OK so please explain how does it make ANY sense to pay to join a club that (tradewise) offers us no benefit at all? In fact it costs us a further £61 Bn? In one year. In absolute cash terms if we left and did no trade with the EU we would be £61 Bn better off as a nation would we not? We have endured huge cuts in services to balance our Government Deficit. A Trade Deficit does as much damage to an economy as it is an outflow of capital and that has to be funded by borrowing. Which costs us MORE money.

So it is VERY important to add our EU membership fee AND the trade deficit given it is an outflow of capital the size of our Government borrowing in 2015! If, as Cameron is saying, its all about trade then excuse me we get sod all out of this arrangement for which we pay handsomely.... IMHO.

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

Interesting that you used 2014's figures... Can I use 2015's because we actually paid less in and got more back

So using hm treasury figures for 2015

Should have been 17.8 billion... Minus the 4.9 billion rebate is 12.9 billion

The U.K. Got back another 6 billion ish in infrastructure projects plus subsidies in farming and fisheries

So the closer net sum is about 7 billion

that is why you do not work for the HM Treasury, your head is full of mince and incorrect figures

erm.... i took my figures for the most pro-remain paper i could find... the daily telegraph....!!!

what do you mean they are not remain????

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12176663/EU-Facts-how-much-does-Britain-pay-to-the-EU-budget.html

i can get the figures from the express website if you like, or the bbc, or the independent,

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

a) The EU levies a GROSS figure.

b) The UK pays a NETT figure in cash post Rebate.

c) The EU then may or may not spend some of our money back here in the UK.

Cool

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

" and we'll all follow the yellow brick road to find the cash shall we ? ..unlikely as most of us know those sums aren't handed over .. So Boris the wizard has no chance of finding them and spending them on UK plc .. "

Sorry to repeat the point. Those are the sums that ARE handed over to the EU. It is REAL cash type money! They are real Government figures. It is therefore very easy to know the sums a future Government could use to the UK's benefit.

I can give you the numbers for the 5 years form 2010 to 2014 if you like but the NETT annual average paid to the EU in cash for those 5 years was £13.2 Bn. The NETT figure rose by some 18.1% in those 5 years and the average Rebate figure was 21.35%.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

There are claims by both sides of dire consequences and World War III may start as a result of voting IN/OUT (or shake and vac about) but judging by the increasing hostility and rage from both sides a civil war is more likely.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Donald trump will help you build a wall

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Donald trump will help you build a wall"

Will need to be a long one to keep the Yorkists and House of Lancaster apart (or should that be House of fraser?)

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By *rinking-in-laCouple over a year ago

Bristol

"The EU are forcing Britain to accept terror suspects into the country under EU rules. Fact. How can the remain campaign defend that?"

Oh dear.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

" To make a commitment that you want to achieve something but then fail to achieve it

What HM Treasury said was paid to the EU in 2014:

Gross: £19.2 Bn or £369.2 Mn a week.

Rebate:£ 4.9 Bn or £ 94.2 Mn a week.

Nett: £14.4 Bn or £276.9 Mn a week.

(An increase of 18.1% since 2010 by the way).

That is called a factual statement not a lie....

Interesting that you used 2014's figures... Can I use 2015's because we actually paid less in and got more back

So using hm treasury figures for 2015

Should have been 17.8 billion... Minus the 4.9 billion rebate is 12.9 billion

The U.K. Got back another 6 billion ish in infrastructure projects plus subsidies in farming and fisheries

So the closer net sum is about 7 billion

I used the 2014 figure because that was the last set from HM Treasury officially reported. You use other numbers if you wish.

But, unless you're going to say which of the £6 billion your not going to spend on what it's currently being spent on you can't really claim it as a saving. Which brings the net figure, the amount we could possibly save, down to £8 to £10 billion.

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

a) The EU levies a GROSS figure.

b) The UK pays a NETT figure in cash post Rebate.

c) The EU then may or may not spend some of our money back here in the UK.

Cool

you would say cool to that....

but it shows a fundemental lack of understanding of what the trade deficit actually is...

it means that we, as a country, you and i, buy more goods from the eu, than the EU buys from the uk....

so unless absolutely everything you buy is "made in the EU" the likelyhood is that you part of the issue....

its not the government that is the cause of the deficit ... it is US!!!!!

cars, food, electronics, that computer you are probably typing on, the TV you are watching, anything that is imported....

i bet i could go round your home picking on all the things that you are going to contribute to the deficit....

I would love you to go to tesco's/adsa next time and every single product you up then ask the question "excuse me, is this completely in britain".........

you would be a barrel of laughs....

p.s (of course the barrel would have to be completly made in the uk or you'd be contributing to the deficit again... oh lordy its like a vicious circle)

p.p.s... the above p.s is me being facetious.....

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Labours legacy.

Shout RAAAAAAACIST!!!!!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Personally I think if we leave we will have less restraint on what we actually want to do and more of a say on who we let into this country which is all good for me....

P.s don't judge me as I'm not a European know it all as many on here think they are

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Labours legacy.

Shout RAAAAAAACIST!!!!!"

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The EU are forcing Britain to accept terror suspects into the country under EU rules. Fact. How can the remain campaign defend that?"

they haven't, and they cant

vote Leave

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Those posting long convoluted reasons to stay in or leave are wasting their time. Most people who would take the time to read such tomes have generally already made up their minds. The way to win the vote (as both sides are doing) is to target soundbites at the average Jeremy Kyle audience.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

" But, unless you're going to say which of the £6 billion your not going to spend on what it's currently being spent on you can't really claim it as a saving. Which brings the net figure, the amount we could possibly save, down to £8 to £10 billion. "

You are being rather clever throwing different numbers about. The £6 Bn I referred to was the revenue for the UK Treasury from a 10% tariff increase imposed by the EU in retaliation to our leaving. A move which will not happen of course for the reasons I stated. That is IN ADDITION to the £14 Bn we would save by leaving the EU. One does not come off the other!

I know you are trying to confuse the issues but the facts are really quite simple. If we stop sending a (nett) £14 billion to the EU we have £14 Bn to spend as OUR elected Government chooses to spend it. It is not for the 'Brexits' to formulate a post Brexit Government policy. Especially given the Leave campaign is a cross party alliance trying to get us THAT freedom. The difference between now and a Brexit is we can't remove anyone from Office in Brussels but we CAN remove our MPs here in the UK so WE have more control of how OUR taxes are spent. Or in the case of the EU .. wasted.

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

thanks for saying this.... because this shows you don't understand...

you are saying we pay the 12.9/14.3 billion and got nothing back from that.....

that is not what people are telling you...

what people are telling is that within that money we also get money back... of which the three biggest are the farming and fishing subsidies...and money for major infrustructure projects (such as money that went to build rebuild liverpool john lennon airport, the birmingham NEC to give you two examples...) and that is the 6 billion we get back from the 12.9/14.3 billion.....

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By *hetalkingstoveMan over a year ago

London

"The EU are forcing Britain to accept terror suspects into the country under EU rules. Fact. How can the remain campaign defend that?

they haven't, and they cant

vote Leave"

Yes, how can the Remain campaign defend itself from proganda that's essentially just been made up?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

" thanks for saying this.... because this shows you don't understand...

you are saying we pay the 12.9/14.3 billion and got nothing back from that.....

that is not what people are telling you...

Whats to not understand? Its OUR money WE pay THEM for THEM to recycle whatever they choose back to US? Clearly it is less than honest when you say we won't have the full £14.3Bn / £12 Bn we pay them available. If we do not pay THEM it remains HERE for US to spend as WE choose. Please excuse the capitals but it is so simple.

Forgive me but your responses seem to be getting a bit sarcastic which detracts from a sensible debate. Indeed on another Thread I just have not bothered to respond. All I have done is quote numbers that are factual and sourced and stated the obvious fact that it is our money and we should say how it is spent. OK you think the the EU is wonderful and we are too small / stupid / unable to survive let alone prosper outside this political monstrosity that is failing by the day but I disagree. But I also respect your right to your views and debate accordingly. Please show the same respect for our views?

Would the USA accept its Supreme court being in Canada? Or have free Movement of Mexicans into the USA? Or have some unelected 'commissioners' telling its Congress what laws to pass? No it wouldn't and neither should we. I never voted for this Political Union that is becoming a U.S.E and now I am voting out. I take it you would vote to join if we were outside?

Oh and by the way when Obama said 'go to the back of the queue' he insulted a whole nation that has been its best and often only ally in battle. He also told a lie because we already trade very well with the USA on terms WE negotiated outside the EU and the USA is our biggest export market. Just as we trade in Canada and Australia and New Zealand and China etc. When we leave the EU only trade deal that will need sorting is with the EU. And if its on WTO terms so be it we still win.

Want proof? Well the British Government published a document in September 2012 confirming those same bilateral trade deals. Forum rules forbid me giving the link but you can Google it.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

a) The EU levies a GROSS figure.

b) The UK pays a NETT figure in cash post Rebate.

c) The EU then may or may not spend some of our money back here in the UK.

This is total fairyland economics. To add different, totally unrelated figures together to get a number that suits you is ridiculous. You cannot add apples to dolphins and have any sort of meaningful figure as a result.

However, if we're going to add and subtract totally unrelated figures together and try and claim it's meaningful why not do this calculation.

£60 billion trade deficit

£71 billion services surplus

£10 billion net contribution.

Added all together gives £1 billion advantage to the UK.

It's a totally bollocks and meaning less figure but still more realistic than your fairyland one.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

Put your not including about £4 to £5 billion we get back from the EU in direct benefits. Unless you can say which people and regions who currently get that money are no longer going to get it you can't claim it as a saving.

Another case of BREXIT's misleading information.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

" Put your not including about £4 to £5 billion we get back from the EU in direct benefits. Unless you can say which people and regions who currently get that money are no longer going to get it you can't claim it as a saving.

Another case of BREXIT's misleading information."

utter nonsense

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

common sense proves we only have one option for a future in UK

Vote LEAVE, that's where the cross goes

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

" thanks for saying this.... because this shows you don't understand...

you are saying we pay the 12.9/14.3 billion and got nothing back from that.....

that is not what people are telling you...

I've clipped the rest of it up because it is a nonsensical rant to the EU conversation.....

I will certainly answer this....

the only thing that is less than honest in all the figures is to quote this mythical 350 million a week figure to the EU, when the IFS have said it's wrong, the Cross party Tresury select committee have said it's misleading, leading donor to ukip aaron banks and even farage have said don't use it... and tory mp's on the leave side refuse to hand out leaflets with it on it....

as cracken pointed out, since we get the rebate, that is not money that is being handed to the EU!!!

the other problem is that people on the leave side are starting to write cheques with their mouths that are not going to be cashed by the figures...

case in point... BOJO saying yesterday they would honour all subsudies in farming and fisheries.....

so now your taking EU money away from them to then give the same money back to them... and you want to call that a saving.....

yeah, in economic terms that like shuffling chair around on the deck of the titanic.... lets call that "creative accounting" (could use that for most brexiters economic answers)

you are still already spending that EU money... so you can't say you are getting it back!!!

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By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

I thought the £6 billion you were talking about was the value of the direct benefits we get from the EU (actually it's a little less at £4 to £5 billion). You can't save that £4 to £5 billion unless you say what you're not going to spend it on. As for the 10% tariff you talk about; you yourself say it will never actually happen (I hope you're right on that) but if it's never actually going out happen we can't save it either. And if it does happen the loss of other taxes through the reduction in trade it would cause could easily wipe it out.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

After a pain staking read of the full thread it is very good to see the vast majority who have posted here are Voting to Leave the EU, the sensible option and only option for the UK

ofcourse you do get a couple who like to waffle and post drivel about how important it is to remain, the same two time and time again, but again the Majority of postings with to

LEAVE THE EU

its the only way to vote:- EXIT; out, leave

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple over a year ago

Derbyshire

"After a pain staking read of the full thread it is very good to see the vast majority who have posted here are Voting, the sensible option and only option for the UK

Of course you do get a couple who like to waffle and post drivel, but again the majority of postings with to the importance of VOTING.

VOTE! - it's the only way

Corrected it for you again

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Due to the ignorance of some retard making false comments on my post I will post again

After a pain staking read of the full thread it is very good to see the vast majority who have posted here are Voting to Leave the EU, the sensible option and only option for the UK

ofcourse you do get a couple who like to waffle and post drivel about how important it is to remain, the same two time and time again, but again the Majority of postings with to

LEAVE THE EU

its the only way to vote:- EXIT; out, leave

have a nice day now

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

VOTE LEAVE EU

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

On the 23rd the only option we have to save the UK is to vote out, Leave

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple over a year ago

Derbyshire

"Due to the ignorance of some retard making false comments on my post I will post again

Keep it civil, you may have to learn how to accept defeat...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

On the 23rd the only option we have to save the UK is to vote out, Leave

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple over a year ago

Derbyshire

"On the 23rd the only option we have to save the UK is to vote out, Leave

Technically it isn't the *only* option though, is it.

That would be a really boring vote.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Due to the ignorance of some retard making false comments on my post I will post again

Keep it civil, you may have to learn how to accept defeat...

I was trying to be polite, considering you were the one specifically defacing my post, hopefully you and your merry remainders will be defeated on 23rd

have a nice day now

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple over a year ago

Derbyshire

"have a nice day now

Thank you, I will.

PS, I don't think I have ever expressed a preference either way, I just think it is important that:

a) everyone does their best to educate themselves on the facts.

b) as many people as possible vote.

and

c) we stand up to people who try to bully others into their way of thinking, or worse, who try to bully the other side into keeping quiet.

It's a bit like the Scottish Referendum all over again really...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It's a bit like the Scottish Referendum all over again really...

Yes it is, the Government & PM are filling heads with fear & lies and so many foolish sad people are believing because they cannot stand on their own two feet, they need someone to hold their hand

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple over a year ago

Derbyshire

Meh!

You can have the last word for a change, it seems to be more important to you somehow.

(But if anyone else wants to know how to carry it on, I can always be bought with cake

)

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Too much cake is unhealthy eating

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple over a year ago

Derbyshire

"Too much cake is unhealthy eating"

Blimey, it doesn't say much about your confidence in winning if you think I'm going to get that many offers

Oops, I forgot I was meant to be going, sorry

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

immigration

Britain has given away control of immigration within the EU to the EU, and retains the power only to control non-EU immigration. This has led to huge disparities where Commonwealth citizens with family in Britain struggle to obtain visas whilst EU citizens with little link with the UK can automatically work here. It has also contributed to the largest ever inflows into the UK in our history, with the UK population rising by 4 million from 1997, which is only slightly less than the entire population of (Southern) Ireland moving to the UK in that timescale, and that figure is the net figure, which does not take into account the economic, social and cultural impacts of a mass outflow of British citizens to settle abroad. The British population used to be stable of about 58 million, and it is uncontrolled immigration that has driven the population up rapidly to the current 62 million (ONS figures).

Leaving the EU will empower Britain to adopt the more balanced and more tightly controlled immigration policy, similar to the Australian visa-based system. This visa system could set down the number of visas available according to UK needs and the ability of public services, housing and infrastructure on a very crowded island to cope. It is likely that certain EU nation states will enjoy visa waiver schemes (in reality there is less need for visas with nations with comparative economic profiles such as France, Germany and Holland, the biggest inflows have been from former Communist states).

In the EU, all the EU citizens have the right to move to the UK regardless of skill needs. This has resulted in the equivalent of a new city the size of York arriving every year. With easier travel for North African countries and the prospect of Turkey’s 79 million citizens being given the right to work in the EU, the scale of uncontrolled immigration is likely to worsen considerably unless the UK withdraws rapidly. Better controls over criminal elements coming into the UK, difficult under the EU’s open door approach, can be enhanced too

FARMING

Do I think that British Agriculture could survive outside the EU? Yes, of course I do.

After all, this is the country that produced Jethro Tull, the NORFOLK four course rotation, James Watt, Henry Ferguson and of course Guy Smith! I would have struggled to have made this case thirty years ago, cocooned as we were then by very high intervention prices for unlimited quantities of many commodities, high tariffs to keep out imports and export restitutions to dump our surpluses overseas. All of this combined with a very light regulatory touch.

If you chat to farmers on a shooting trailer or a pub about leaving the EU there is always one who will moan, “but I can’t make a profit without my Single Farm Payment” and his head will go straight into the sand. However, that man is making an assumption. He is assuming that the EU is the only institution in the world that supports agriculture. He is wrong, the USA have their Counter Cyclical Program, Canada has its Crop Price Insurance Scheme, even Japan has The Basic Law combined with the Basic Plan. Historically, this country has been through the mill on the subject of agricultural support.

We know that when it was overdone we were obliged to repeal the “Corn Laws” and later when we let Agriculture ‘go hang’ in the 1940s, people did not have enough to eat. We learned from that experience, and from the end of the war, right up until the day we joined the CAP, we supported agriculture. Looking forward, the only political party wanting to take us out of the EU, (it is called UKIP by the way!] states categorically in its manifesto that it will support agriculture. Any Government of an independent Britain will need to consider the issue of food security. As a crowded island of 62 million people can we really rely on foreigners to produce all of our food, just because it might be slightly cheaper?

There are two huge risks. One is a dramatic loss of supply after a few years due to, say, a drought in the Southern hemisphere. The other is the real risk of terrorism with all of this food arriving through a handful of deep water ports and Heathrow. What a gift to a terrorist. It only needs one such incident, the threat of others and our ‘just in time’ food supply is disrupted. Five consecutively missed meals results in anarchy. I just cannot see our government taking the risk. Some taxpayers money to support a reliable production base here, is the less bad option.

The CAP has changed considerably over the years, which is probably why we are talking about this now. The proportion of the EU budget allocated to agriculture has significantly dropped and in the reform we are discussing at the moment it is scheduled to keep dropping. The new countries joining, Croatia, Macedonia, Ukraine and Turkey, will all be net recipients of the EU Budget meaning that your Single Farm Payment will be further reduced. This expansion to the South and East has two further dynamics.

There is the relentless dilution of our influence in the EU and we are getting to a new place culturally. A place where institutionalised corruption and non-compliance is a fact of life; and if you don’t believe me, why are there still at least 50 million birds in battery cages, as I speak ? They are twiddling with the physical application as well. Set-aside is returning and you will be obliged to grow crops that you wouldn’t normally grow. Both these measures will reduce your profits. Some may now say, “OK fair enough, but what about selling malting barley and lamb to the EU when we are no longer part of it?”. Do not worry, we run a massive trade deficit with the EU. We buy far more from it than we sell to it. For example 17.7% of all German exports to the EU come here. The figure for France is over 11%. They are not going to mess with us, they need our market. We are in a strong position to negotiate very good trade terms with them, and this is not creating a precedent. There are at least fifty countries in the world with their own preferential trade agreements with the EU, some of them buying very little from it.

Meanwhile we have to sit on our hands whilst the EU conducts a bilateral trade agreement on our behalf with Mercosur, that will be to the great detriment of our beef industry. It is less well known that Japan is one of the countries that DOESN’T have a special trade deal with the EU, but it is a country from which we buy a great deal. We could and should have a deal with them whereby in return for our purchases of manufactured goods they buy some wheat and beans from us. You never know, they may grow a bit taller as a result!

In my opinion there was a scandal in operation here a few years ago. Sheep farmers and graziers were paying competitive rents for MOD airfields, etc, but the MOD appeared to refuse point blank to purchase their sheepmeat supplies for the troops and civilian employees from the home market. They were virtually forced into this position by Pascal Lamy the EU Trade Commissioner. He went to South America and said ” I can guarantee that the UK Government will buy your sheepmeat, if you in turn buy your Fiat cars from Spain and Italy”. So Spain and Italy win, we lose, what’s new in the EU?

No discussion on EU agriculture is complete without reference to regulation. We are drowned in it. For example: the Nitrates Directive. We used to have our own maximum level of 100 milligrams per litre of water. There were no health scares at this level. When the EU took over they halved the level to 50. The difference is critical. The NFU commissioned a study to discover what measures we would need to take to remain under 50. The answer came back that half of East Anglia would need to be left as ungrazed set-aside plus a fair slice of the East Midlands.

Then we have this huge con trick about man-made global warming, driven by computer models. These same computer models and experts, made a complete hash of forecasting our winter weather three years running. Was I the only farmer last year to lose a third of his sugar beet crop, frozen solid into the ground by global warming? Am I the only farmer who needs Carbon Dioxide to make his crops grow? But in the EU this scam is a religion. What a wonderful excuse to boss us all about. You will have to play your part. Arable farmers must divert the exhaust of their tractors over the cab and into the soil via the tines of trailed implements. Think of the power this will consume. Think of the seedbeds it will spoil.

Livestock farmers: your sheep and cattle are producing too much methane. You must feed them less grass, hay and silage. And more cereals and concentrates! The madness doesn’t end here. This set-aside that is returning is nothing to do with controlling supply. It is a “climate change” measure. The logic is that if 7% of the EU is not farmed properly, then the world’s weather will improve! We have the Working Time Directive. When this is enforced properly it will be hugely inconvenient for farmers and employees alike. There is the Physical Agents Directive. It hasn’t been buried, only parked. When last seen it said that farmers could only sit on a tractor seat for three hours a day!

The Pesticides Directive is removing pesticides from our shelves, making it difficult or impossible to grow certain minority crops that will now need to be imported. Legislation going through the European Parliament at the moment on very small tractors includes 37 closely typed pages of script on how to test their roll bars. We can thrive without that! Everyday, at least 1000 sheep, fallen stock are transported up to 100 miles to be roasted at 900 degrees centigrade. You talk about Global Warming! There are millions of acres on which these animals could be safely buried.

We used to have a fishing industry in this country, until it was destroyed by the EU. Surplus fish were processed into fishmeal, a very useful protein source for our livestock. The EU took over and now this surplus has to be dumped, dead, at the bottom of the sea. An independent Britain could turn this round. All over the world farmers are exporting food and feedstuffs to the EU, tariff free. They do not have to adhere to these rules, so WHY SHOULD WE?

VOTE LEAVE

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