FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > BREXIT
BREXIT
Jump to: Newest in thread
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I am still not sure which way my hand will stray when I get in the booth. It will be an Ouija job. However, I think my hand is edging towards the 'out'. What will swing it will be the democratic argument. Tony Benn's words still ring from the grave. "The EU is a carefully constructed mechanism for eliminating all democratic influences hitherto exercised by the electors in the member states; it presents this as a triumph of internationalism, when it is a reversal of democratic gains made in the previous hundred years." When all is said and done, I find directives anathema; we have them foisted upon us without democratic debate, without knowing their origins or rationale and we cannot vote them out. We are told that without the EU we would not have maternity leave or legal leave entitlements or working time restrictions but we would have arrived at something similar, after all for 15 years we had a labour government (who, incidentally, took credit for these) - but we would have debated them and latter governments would be able to change them if the electorate wanted. We may or may not do quite as well out than in but it will not be a disaster so maybe we should sacrifice a little for our freedom. Democracy is not perfect but it is better than Oligarchy." Freedom has its price, I'll put up with the duty free allowance to have democracy | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I am still not sure which way my hand will stray when I get in the booth. It will be an Ouija job. However, I think my hand is edging towards the 'out'. What will swing it will be the democratic argument. Tony Benn's words still ring from the grave. "The EU is a carefully constructed mechanism for eliminating all democratic influences hitherto exercised by the electors in the member states; it presents this as a triumph of internationalism, when it is a reversal of democratic gains made in the previous hundred years." When all is said and done, I find directives anathema; we have them foisted upon us without democratic debate, without knowing their origins or rationale and we cannot vote them out. We are told that without the EU we would not have maternity leave or legal leave entitlements or working time restrictions but we would have arrived at something similar, after all for 15 years we had a labour government (who, incidentally, took credit for these) - but we would have debated them and latter governments would be able to change them if the electorate wanted. We may or may not do quite as well out than in but it will not be a disaster so maybe we should sacrifice a little for our freedom. Democracy is not perfect but it is better than Oligarchy." 
Many of the good points Tony Benn made for leaving the EU still stand today. Also as Benjamin Franklin said "Those who give up their freedom for security deserve neither". The EU is chipping away at our democracy, our sovereignty and our freedom bit by bit, day after day, month after month and year after year. We need to Leave now otherwise one day we'll all wake up and realise it's all been taken away from us. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I am still not sure which way my hand will stray when I get in the booth. It will be an Ouija job. However, I think my hand is edging towards the 'out'. What will swing it will be the democratic argument. Tony Benn's words still ring from the grave. "The EU is a carefully constructed mechanism for eliminating all democratic influences hitherto exercised by the electors in the member states; it presents this as a triumph of internationalism, when it is a reversal of democratic gains made in the previous hundred years." When all is said and done, I find directives anathema; we have them foisted upon us without democratic debate, without knowing their origins or rationale and we cannot vote them out. We are told that without the EU we would not have maternity leave or legal leave entitlements or working time restrictions but we would have arrived at something similar, after all for 15 years we had a labour government (who, incidentally, took credit for these) - but we would have debated them and latter governments would be able to change them if the electorate wanted. We may or may not do quite as well out than in but it will not be a disaster so maybe we should sacrifice a little for our freedom. Democracy is not perfect but it is better than Oligarchy.
Many of the good points Tony Benn made for leaving the EU still stand today. Also as Benjamin Franklin said "Those who give up their freedom for security deserve neither". The EU is chipping away at our democracy, our sovereignty and our freedom bit by bit, day after day, month after month and year after year. We need to Leave now otherwise one day we'll all wake up and realise it's all been taken away from us. "
Where's the stay boys, they given up and moved to French  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I am still not sure which way my hand will stray when I get in the booth. It will be an Ouija job. However, I think my hand is edging towards the 'out'. What will swing it will be the democratic argument. Tony Benn's words still ring from the grave. "The EU is a carefully constructed mechanism for eliminating all democratic influences hitherto exercised by the electors in the member states; it presents this as a triumph of internationalism, when it is a reversal of democratic gains made in the previous hundred years." When all is said and done, I find directives anathema; we have them foisted upon us without democratic debate, without knowing their origins or rationale and we cannot vote them out. We are told that without the EU we would not have maternity leave or legal leave entitlements or working time restrictions but we would have arrived at something similar, after all for 15 years we had a labour government (who, incidentally, took credit for these) - but we would have debated them and latter governments would be able to change them if the electorate wanted. We may or may not do quite as well out than in but it will not be a disaster so maybe we should sacrifice a little for our freedom. Democracy is not perfect but it is better than Oligarchy.
Many of the good points Tony Benn made for leaving the EU still stand today. Also as Benjamin Franklin said "Those who give up their freedom for security deserve neither". The EU is chipping away at our democracy, our sovereignty and our freedom bit by bit, day after day, month after month and year after year. We need to Leave now otherwise one day we'll all wake up and realise it's all been taken away from us.
Where's the stay boys, they given up and moved to French "They've probably run out of dodgy statistics. 
If we are doing quotes I will go with Mark Twain.
"There are lies, damn lies, and statistics" | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I am still not sure which way my hand will stray when I get in the booth. It will be an Ouija job. However, I think my hand is edging towards the 'out'. What will swing it will be the democratic argument. Tony Benn's words still ring from the grave. "The EU is a carefully constructed mechanism for eliminating all democratic influences hitherto exercised by the electors in the member states; it presents this as a triumph of internationalism, when it is a reversal of democratic gains made in the previous hundred years." When all is said and done, I find directives anathema; we have them foisted upon us without democratic debate, without knowing their origins or rationale and we cannot vote them out. We are told that without the EU we would not have maternity leave or legal leave entitlements or working time restrictions but we would have arrived at something similar, after all for 15 years we had a labour government (who, incidentally, took credit for these) - but we would have debated them and latter governments would be able to change them if the electorate wanted. We may or may not do quite as well out than in but it will not be a disaster so maybe we should sacrifice a little for our freedom. Democracy is not perfect but it is better than Oligarchy.
Many of the good points Tony Benn made for leaving the EU still stand today. Also as Benjamin Franklin said "Those who give up their freedom for security deserve neither". The EU is chipping away at our democracy, our sovereignty and our freedom bit by bit, day after day, month after month and year after year. We need to Leave now otherwise one day we'll all wake up and realise it's all been taken away from us. " | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The EU is chipping away at our democracy, our sovereignty and our freedom bit by bit, day after day, month after month and year after year. We need to Leave now otherwise one day we'll all wake up and realise it's all been taken away from us. " To me this is just hyperbole. What are the dreadful things the EU has done to this country, exactly? They've made our government adhere to higher environmental standards? Tackled discrimination in the work place? The EU isn't perfect, but the way some people are talking it sounds like they've swallowed Boris's guff about the EU being the 2nd coming of the Nazis. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
 | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The EU is chipping away at our democracy, our sovereignty and our freedom bit by bit, day after day, month after month and year after year. We need to Leave now otherwise one day we'll all wake up and realise it's all been taken away from us. To me this is just hyperbole. What are the dreadful things the EU has done to this country, exactly? They've made our government adhere to higher environmental standards? Tackled discrimination in the work place?" . Exactly, they have forced our government to adhere to standards we, the electorate, did not agree to... and we were legislating against discriination progressively well before we even joined the EU. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Have u all got your voting cards? We haven't had any yet" erm, dont think so. They're not essential as long as you are on the register. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Have u all got your voting cards? We haven't had any yet" Yes I've had mine through the post for the EU referendum. I'll be voting Leave on the day (June 23rd). You can phone your local council to see if you are registered to vote. If you are registered then you don't need a card as long as your name is on the list. If you are not registered to vote then I think deadline is June 7th for the EU referendum so still time to get it sorted out yet. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Have u all got your voting cards? We haven't had any yet Yes I've had mine through the post for the EU referendum. I'll be voting Leave on the day (June 23rd). You can phone your local council to see if you are registered to vote. If you are registered then you don't need a card as long as your name is on the list. If you are not registered to vote then I think deadline is June 7th for the EU referendum so still time to get it sorted out yet. "It says you shoulld take some id if you don't have a card. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I am still not sure which way my hand will stray when I get in the booth. It will be an Ouija job. However, I think my hand is edging towards the 'out'. What will swing it will be the democratic argument. Tony Benn's words still ring from the grave. "The EU is a carefully constructed mechanism for eliminating all democratic influences hitherto exercised by the electors in the member states; it presents this as a triumph of internationalism, when it is a reversal of democratic gains made in the previous hundred years." When all is said and done, I find directives anathema; we have them foisted upon us without democratic debate, without knowing their origins or rationale and we cannot vote them out. We are told that without the EU we would not have maternity leave or legal leave entitlements or working time restrictions but we would have arrived at something similar, after all for 15 years we had a labour government (who, incidentally, took credit for these) - but we would have debated them and latter governments would be able to change them if the electorate wanted. We may or may not do quite as well out than in but it will not be a disaster so maybe we should sacrifice a little for our freedom. Democracy is not perfect but it is better than Oligarchy.
Many of the good points Tony Benn made for leaving the EU still stand today. Also as Benjamin Franklin said "Those who give up their freedom for security deserve neither". The EU is chipping away at our democracy, our sovereignty and our freedom bit by bit, day after day, month after month and year after year. We need to Leave now otherwise one day we'll all wake up and realise it's all been taken away from us. "I love the false democracy argument UK governments are usually voted for by less than 25 percent of its Voting age population The last two are fine examples , almost no one voted for the coalition , and 36 %of the voters voted tory but the turn out was less than 70 % that equals 75 % of the UK population not wanting the government we currently have Democracy must be fought for we need to feel we have a voice even if the reality is somewhat different But in reality your impact upon humanity is no more or less significant if you are a member of the EU or not If you think the EU is run badly then so does a French person and an Italian and they need your support in trying to change the whole system so it's better for all | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I am still not sure which way my hand will stray when I get in the booth. It will be an Ouija job. However, I think my hand is edging towards the 'out'. What will swing it will be the democratic argument. Tony Benn's words still ring from the grave. "The EU is a carefully constructed mechanism for eliminating all democratic influences hitherto exercised by the electors in the member states; it presents this as a triumph of internationalism, when it is a reversal of democratic gains made in the previous hundred years." When all is said and done, I find directives anathema; we have them foisted upon us without democratic debate, without knowing their origins or rationale and we cannot vote them out. We are told that without the EU we would not have maternity leave or legal leave entitlements or working time restrictions but we would have arrived at something similar, after all for 15 years we had a labour government (who, incidentally, took credit for these) - but we would have debated them and latter governments would be able to change them if the electorate wanted. We may or may not do quite as well out than in but it will not be a disaster so maybe we should sacrifice a little for our freedom. Democracy is not perfect but it is better than Oligarchy.
Many of the good points Tony Benn made for leaving the EU still stand today. Also as Benjamin Franklin said "Those who give up their freedom for security deserve neither". The EU is chipping away at our democracy, our sovereignty and our freedom bit by bit, day after day, month after month and year after year. We need to Leave now otherwise one day we'll all wake up and realise it's all been taken away from us.
I love the false democracy argument
UK governments are usually voted for by less than 25 percent of its
Voting age population
The last two are fine examples , almost no one voted for the coalition , and 36 %of the voters voted tory but the turn out was less than 70 % that equals 75 % of the UK population not wanting the government we currently have
Democracy must be fought for we need to feel we have a voice even if the reality is somewhat different
But in reality your impact upon humanity is no more or less significant if you are a member of the EU or not
If you think the EU is run badly then so does a French person and an Italian and they need your support in trying to change the whole system so it's better for all
"You're missing the point. Good or bad, we are capable of choosing our own voting system amongst other decisions. Doesn't matter who didn't vote; they had the chance - in fact 2015 was a very high turnout. You can vote for the candidate of your choice and remove the incumbent grouping that forms the govt. every 5 years. Of course, if you vote green you only have 4% agreeing with you and if you vote SNP you choose to limit your choice to Scotland and if you vote UKIP you have only one policy which the government has acceded to. If you discount SNP and UKIP the govt got a very very respectable mandate. So I don't see your complaint. Who is in power in the EU govt and how do I remove them? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I am still not sure which way my hand will stray when I get in the booth. It will be an Ouija job. However, I think my hand is edging towards the 'out'. What will swing it will be the democratic argument. Tony Benn's words still ring from the grave. "The EU is a carefully constructed mechanism for eliminating all democratic influences hitherto exercised by the electors in the member states; it presents this as a triumph of internationalism, when it is a reversal of democratic gains made in the previous hundred years." When all is said and done, I find directives anathema; we have them foisted upon us without democratic debate, without knowing their origins or rationale and we cannot vote them out. We are told that without the EU we would not have maternity leave or legal leave entitlements or working time restrictions but we would have arrived at something similar, after all for 15 years we had a labour government (who, incidentally, took credit for these) - but we would have debated them and latter governments would be able to change them if the electorate wanted. We may or may not do quite as well out than in but it will not be a disaster so maybe we should sacrifice a little for our freedom. Democracy is not perfect but it is better than Oligarchy." You sound like you've made your mind up already. Here are three facts for you to consider though: 1) You are no less free in the EU than out of it. 2) Your current UK government is already foisting laws upon you without democratic debate - the only difference is that outside the EU there is nowhere to appeal against their anti-democratic practices. 3) The EU is a democracy, not an oligarchy. Unless you also consider the UK to be an oligarchy, in which case you'd be wrong, but considering the EU to be an oligarchy would make more sense. Now you can make an informed choice on polling day! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
 | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I will resist this thread until tomorrow or perhaps even the 23rd "Same here, self imposed exile!  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I will resist this thread until tomorrow or perhaps even the 23rd
Same here, self imposed exile! "So not buying that....
I am just happy that the chief brexit economist finally admitted on radio 4 this morning what people on the remain side have been saying all along... That there will be tariffs put on all trade between the uk and the eu...
He used the example of 10% on cars.....
Also on the "things I didn't believe would happen" list..... Corbyns pro stay speech this morning was particularly strong... I think he needed to be seen making the case to stay and it was done well | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Have u all got your voting cards? We haven't had any yet" Got mine last week | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I am still not sure which way my hand will stray when I get in the booth. It will be an Ouija job. However, I think my hand is edging towards the 'out'. What will swing it will be the democratic argument. Tony Benn's words still ring from the grave. "The EU is a carefully constructed mechanism for eliminating all democratic influences hitherto exercised by the electors in the member states; it presents this as a triumph of internationalism, when it is a reversal of democratic gains made in the previous hundred years." When all is said and done, I find directives anathema; we have them foisted upon us without democratic debate, without knowing their origins or rationale and we cannot vote them out. We are told that without the EU we would not have maternity leave or legal leave entitlements or working time restrictions but we would have arrived at something similar, after all for 15 years we had a labour government (who, incidentally, took credit for these) - but we would have debated them and latter governments would be able to change them if the electorate wanted. We may or may not do quite as well out than in but it will not be a disaster so maybe we should sacrifice a little for our freedom. Democracy is not perfect but it is better than Oligarchy.
Many of the good points Tony Benn made for leaving the EU still stand today. Also as Benjamin Franklin said "Those who give up their freedom for security deserve neither". The EU is chipping away at our democracy, our sovereignty and our freedom bit by bit, day after day, month after month and year after year. We need to Leave now otherwise one day we'll all wake up and realise it's all been taken away from us.
I love the false democracy argument
UK governments are usually voted for by less than 25 percent of its
Voting age population
The last two are fine examples , almost no one voted for the coalition , and 36 %of the voters voted tory but the turn out was less than 70 % that equals 75 % of the UK population not wanting the government we currently have
Democracy must be fought for we need to feel we have a voice even if the reality is somewhat different
But in reality your impact upon humanity is no more or less significant if you are a member of the EU or not
If you think the EU is run badly then so does a French person and an Italian and they need your support in trying to change the whole system so it's better for all
You're missing the point. Good or bad, we are capable of choosing our own voting system amongst other decisions. Doesn't matter who didn't vote; they had the chance - in fact 2015 was a very high turnout. You can vote for the candidate of your choice and remove the incumbent grouping that forms the govt. every 5 years. Of course, if you vote green you only have 4% agreeing with you and if you vote SNP you choose to limit your choice to Scotland and if you vote UKIP you have only one policy which the government has acceded to. If you discount SNP and UKIP the govt got a very very respectable mandate.
So I don't see your complaint. Who is in power in the EU govt and how do I remove them?"so how exactly will your life or your democracy change after the vote leave? You will still be govern be the same people with the same laws probably with a bit less money | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I am just happy that the chief brexit economist finally admitted on radio 4 this morning what people on the remain side have been saying all along... That there will be tariffs put on all trade between the uk and the eu... He used the example of 10% on cars..... but to counter that, won't the tariff hit EU trade with us as well ,as goods will be dearer to import so impacting on a very fragile EU economy?" Which is pretty much what I've been saying all along. Yes the EU could hit the UK with tariffs but if they do it will be squeaky bum time in Stuttgart (Mercedes Benz) Wolfsburg (VW) Ingolstadt (Audi) and Munich (BMW) to name just a few. French wine producers, among others, will be hitting the bottle as well. I wouldn't worry too much though. The exit negotiations will take two years so clearer minds will come to the fore before then. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I am still not sure which way my hand will stray when I get in the booth. It will be an Ouija job. However, I think my hand is edging towards the 'out'. What will swing it will be the democratic argument. Tony Benn's words still ring from the grave. "The EU is a carefully constructed mechanism for eliminating all democratic influences hitherto exercised by the electors in the member states; it presents this as a triumph of internationalism, when it is a reversal of democratic gains made in the previous hundred years." When all is said and done, I find directives anathema; we have them foisted upon us without democratic debate, without knowing their origins or rationale and we cannot vote them out. We are told that without the EU we would not have maternity leave or legal leave entitlements or working time restrictions but we would have arrived at something similar, after all for 15 years we had a labour government (who, incidentally, took credit for these) - but we would have debated them and latter governments would be able to change them if the electorate wanted. We may or may not do quite as well out than in but it will not be a disaster so maybe we should sacrifice a little for our freedom. Democracy is not perfect but it is better than Oligarchy.
Many of the good points Tony Benn made for leaving the EU still stand today. Also as Benjamin Franklin said "Those who give up their freedom for security deserve neither". The EU is chipping away at our democracy, our sovereignty and our freedom bit by bit, day after day, month after month and year after year. We need to Leave now otherwise one day we'll all wake up and realise it's all been taken away from us.
I love the false democracy argument
UK governments are usually voted for by less than 25 percent of its
Voting age population
The last two are fine examples , almost no one voted for the coalition , and 36 %of the voters voted tory but the turn out was less than 70 % that equals 75 % of the UK population not wanting the government we currently have
Democracy must be fought for we need to feel we have a voice even if the reality is somewhat different
But in reality your impact upon humanity is no more or less significant if you are a member of the EU or not
If you think the EU is run badly then so does a French person and an Italian and they need your support in trying to change the whole system so it's better for all
"that is what the Brexiters are trying to do | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I am just happy that the chief brexit economist finally admitted on radio 4 this morning what people on the remain side have been saying all along... That there will be tariffs put on all trade between the uk and the eu... He used the example of 10% on cars..... but to counter that, won't the tariff hit EU trade with us as well ,as goods will be dearer to import so impacting on a very fragile EU economy? Which is pretty much what I've been saying all along. Yes the EU could hit the UK with tariffs but if they do it will be squeaky bum time in Stuttgart (Mercedes Benz) Wolfsburg (VW) Ingolstadt (Audi) and Munich (BMW) to name just a few. French wine producers, among others, will be hitting the bottle as well. I wouldn't worry too much though. The exit negotiations will take two years so clearer minds will come to the fore before then." it's not about clear minds as with everything else in business the cost will be passed to the consumer | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I am just happy that the chief brexit economist finally admitted on radio 4 this morning what people on the remain side have been saying all along... That there will be tariffs put on all trade between the uk and the eu... He used the example of 10% on cars..... but to counter that, won't the tariff hit EU trade with us as well ,as goods will be dearer to import so impacting on a very fragile EU economy?" It will absolutely impact both sides... 44% of uk exports are to the eu... And 8% of eu exports are to the uk But at least we can finally dismiss the it will have no impact discussion... Prices will go up | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I am just happy that the chief brexit economist finally admitted on radio 4 this morning what people on the remain side have been saying all along... That there will be tariffs put on all trade between the uk and the eu... He used the example of 10% on cars..... but to counter that, won't the tariff hit EU trade with us as well ,as goods will be dearer to import so impacting on a very fragile EU economy? It will absolutely impact both sides... 44% of uk exports are to the eu... And 8% of eu exports are to the uk But at least we can finally dismiss the it will have no impact discussion... Prices will go up" Maybe prices will go up. In the short term. I think the usual capitalist economic market forces will ensure prices of goods and services will find their own level again after all the furore in the markets has died down. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
xx | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I'm just wondering which laws we have been stopped from making as a result of being in the EU? And which laws we want to pass, or get rid of, if we Brexit? Let's hope they're not the ones that got this country to clean up its act regarding the environment, or improve workers' rights, etc... To maintain credibility, please avoid using the word "migrants" or "immigrants" in your answer." I think the stay side should absolutely play up the benefits the eu have given us thru the working time directives.... The maternity pay, the shorter working hours limits, the 4 weeks paid leave we all get as a minimum, part time workers entitled to the same benefits as full time workers and so on.... The problem is the things they have given us gets taken for granted | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I'm just wondering which laws we have been stopped from making as a result of being in the EU? And which laws we want to pass, or get rid of, if we Brexit? Let's hope they're not the ones that got this country to clean up its act regarding the environment, or improve workers' rights, etc... To maintain credibility, please avoid using the word "migrants" or "immigrants" in your answer. I think the stay side should absolutely play up the benefits the eu have given us thru the working time directives.... The maternity pay, the shorter working hours limits, the 4 weeks paid leave we all get as a minimum, part time workers entitled to the same benefits as full time workers and so on.... The problem is the things they have given us gets taken for granted " And there's no guarantee that the benefits we have had will remain if we leave the EU. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I am just happy that the chief brexit economist finally admitted on radio 4 this morning what people on the remain side have been saying all along... That there will be tariffs put on all trade between the uk and the eu... He used the example of 10% on cars..... but to counter that, won't the tariff hit EU trade with us as well ,as goods will be dearer to import so impacting on a very fragile EU economy? It will absolutely impact both sides... 44% of uk exports are to the eu... And 8% of eu exports are to the uk But at least we can finally dismiss the it will have no impact discussion... Prices will go up Maybe prices will go up. In the short term. I think the usual capitalist economic market forces will ensure prices of goods and services will find their own level again after all the furore in the markets has died down. " True. And without the EU import levies we are forced to apply a lot of prices will go down | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I am just happy that the chief brexit economist finally admitted on radio 4 this morning what people on the remain side have been saying all along... That there will be tariffs put on all trade between the uk and the eu... He used the example of 10% on cars..... but to counter that, won't the tariff hit EU trade with us as well ,as goods will be dearer to import so impacting on a very fragile EU economy? Which is pretty much what I've been saying all along. Yes the EU could hit the UK with tariffs but if they do it will be squeaky bum time in Stuttgart (Mercedes Benz) Wolfsburg (VW) Ingolstadt (Audi) and Munich (BMW) to name just a few. French wine producers, among others, will be hitting the bottle as well. I wouldn't worry too much though. The exit negotiations will take two years so clearer minds will come to the fore before then." 2 years of further delay on business decisions. Good to know 
Do we take the Swiss or Norwegian template to get a quick 2 year negotiation ? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I am just happy that the chief brexit economist finally admitted on radio 4 this morning what people on the remain side have been saying all along... That there will be tariffs put on all trade between the uk and the eu... He used the example of 10% on cars..... but to counter that, won't the tariff hit EU trade with us as well ,as goods will be dearer to import so impacting on a very fragile EU economy? Which is pretty much what I've been saying all along. Yes the EU could hit the UK with tariffs but if they do it will be squeaky bum time in Stuttgart (Mercedes Benz) Wolfsburg (VW) Ingolstadt (Audi) and Munich (BMW) to name just a few. French wine producers, among others, will be hitting the bottle as well. I wouldn't worry too much though. The exit negotiations will take two years so clearer minds will come to the fore before then. 2 years of further delay on business decisions. Good to know
Do we take the Swiss or Norwegian template to get a quick 2 year negotiation ? "Or a 5 to 10 year negotiation wait as uk is back in the queue when dealing with the USA. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I am just happy that the chief brexit economist finally admitted on radio 4 this morning what people on the remain side have been saying all along... That there will be tariffs put on all trade between the uk and the eu... He used the example of 10% on cars..... but to counter that, won't the tariff hit EU trade with us as well ,as goods will be dearer to import so impacting on a very fragile EU economy? Which is pretty much what I've been saying all along. Yes the EU could hit the UK with tariffs but if they do it will be squeaky bum time in Stuttgart (Mercedes Benz) Wolfsburg (VW) Ingolstadt (Audi) and Munich (BMW) to name just a few. French wine producers, among others, will be hitting the bottle as well. I wouldn't worry too much though. The exit negotiations will take two years so clearer minds will come to the fore before then. 2 years of further delay on business decisions. Good to know
Do we take the Swiss or Norwegian template to get a quick 2 year negotiation ? Or a 5 to 10 year negotiation wait as uk is back in the queue when dealing with the USA. "I think not. The Americans want to sell us weapons and weapon systems. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I'm just wondering which laws we have been stopped from making as a result of being in the EU? And which laws we want to pass, or get rid of, if we Brexit? Let's hope they're not the ones that got this country to clean up its act regarding the environment, or improve workers' rights, etc... To maintain credibility, please avoid using the word "migrants" or "immigrants" in your answer." You think the EU is good for the environment and conservation??? Have a look at this link then... www.thetimes.co.uk/article/eu-forces-britain-into-whalemeat-trade-says-minister-99ts2vrpf | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I'm just wondering which laws we have been stopped from making as a result of being in the EU? And which laws we want to pass, or get rid of, if we Brexit? Let's hope they're not the ones that got this country to clean up its act regarding the environment, or improve workers' rights, etc... To maintain credibility, please avoid using the word "migrants" or "immigrants" in your answer." One very easy one :VAT It cant be cut. - Very recently we were unable to cut vat on tampons. Another. We are unable to support the steel industry. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I'm just wondering which laws we have been stopped from making as a result of being in the EU? And which laws we want to pass, or get rid of, if we Brexit? Let's hope they're not the ones that got this country to clean up its act regarding the environment, or improve workers' rights, etc... To maintain credibility, please avoid using the word "migrants" or "immigrants" in your answer. You think the EU is good for the environment and conservation??? Have a look at this link then... www.thetimes.co.uk/article/eu-forces-britain-into-whalemeat-trade-says-minister-99ts2vrpf" Erm...yeah! And as someone pointed out when the eu parliament came round to vote on stopping the ivory trade there were 12 votes against.... And 6 of those came from ukip mep's.... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The EU has devastated the lives of millions of people across Europe with one ill thought out policy, the EURO. For that one thing alone it does not deserve to exist any longer" ...... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I'm just wondering which laws we have been stopped from making as a result of being in the EU? And which laws we want to pass, or get rid of, if we Brexit? Let's hope they're not the ones that got this country to clean up its act regarding the environment, or improve workers' rights, etc... To maintain credibility, please avoid using the word "migrants" or "immigrants" in your answer. You think the EU is good for the environment and conservation??? Have a look at this link then... www.thetimes.co.uk/article/eu-forces-britain-into-whalemeat-trade-says-minister-99ts2vrpf Erm...yeah! And as someone pointed out when the eu parliament came round to vote on stopping the ivory trade there were 12 votes against.... And 6 of those came from ukip mep's.... " Please explain what that has to do with the EU forcing Britain to actively take part in the Whalemeat trade? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Many of the good points Tony Benn made for leaving the EU still stand today. Also as Benjamin Franklin said "Those who give up their freedom for security deserve neither". The EU is chipping away at our democracy, our sovereignty and our freedom bit by bit, day after day, month after month and year after year. We need to Leave now otherwise one day we'll all wake up and realise it's all been taken away from us. " Well said Centaur UK your comments are worth reading again | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I am just happy that the chief brexit economist finally admitted on radio 4 this morning what people on the remain side have been saying all along... That there will be tariffs put on all trade between the uk and the eu... He used the example of 10% on cars..... but to counter that, won't the tariff hit EU trade with us as well ,as goods will be dearer to import so impacting on a very fragile EU economy? Which is pretty much what I've been saying all along. Yes the EU could hit the UK with tariffs but if they do it will be squeaky bum time in Stuttgart (Mercedes Benz) Wolfsburg (VW) Ingolstadt (Audi) and Munich (BMW) to name just a few. French wine producers, among others, will be hitting the bottle as well. I wouldn't worry too much though. The exit negotiations will take two years so clearer minds will come to the fore before then. 2 years of further delay on business decisions. Good to know
Do we take the Swiss or Norwegian template to get a quick 2 year negotiation ? Or a 5 to 10 year negotiation wait as uk is back in the queue when dealing with the USA. "Why take anyone elses template? Do you think that Britain is so stupid that it can't sort out its own deal? As for dealing with the Americans and the rest of the world, have you ever thought that it could be that it is the sclerotic EU which is slowing everything down? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"We all know that the EU is run by an enelected and powerful group of people against whom we have no opportunity to protest against at the ballot box. That is profoundly undemocratic, yet we find ourselves being urged by our government to democratically choose to be ruled undemocratically. It is for that reason alone that I will be voting to leave on June 23rd." And your view on the unelected House of Lords is....? Your view on a 'majority' Conservative government achieved by having only 24% of those eligible to vote wanting them in power - Compared with MEP's proportional representation? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I am still not sure which way my hand will stray when I get in the booth. It will be an Ouija job. However, I think my hand is edging towards the 'out'. What will swing it will be the democratic argument. Tony Benn's words still ring from the grave. "The EU is a carefully constructed mechanism for eliminating all democratic influences hitherto exercised by the electors in the member states; it presents this as a triumph of internationalism, when it is a reversal of democratic gains made in the previous hundred years." When all is said and done, I find directives anathema; we have them foisted upon us without democratic debate, without knowing their origins or rationale and we cannot vote them out. We are told that without the EU we would not have maternity leave or legal leave entitlements or working time restrictions but we would have arrived at something similar, after all for 15 years we had a labour government (who, incidentally, took credit for these) - but we would have debated them and latter governments would be able to change them if the electorate wanted. We may or may not do quite as well out than in but it will not be a disaster so maybe we should sacrifice a little for our freedom. Democracy is not perfect but it is better than Oligarchy." If you think the EU protects workers rights...take a look over the channel to what's happening in France....Erosion of workers rights...not protected by EU at all as it happens. So Corbyns recent argument appears, like most of the rest on both sides, to be utter bollocks! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I am just happy that the chief brexit economist finally admitted on radio 4 this morning what people on the remain side have been saying all along... That there will be tariffs put on all trade between the uk and the eu... He used the example of 10% on cars..... but to counter that, won't the tariff hit EU trade with us as well ,as goods will be dearer to import so impacting on a very fragile EU economy? Which is pretty much what I've been saying all along. Yes the EU could hit the UK with tariffs but if they do it will be squeaky bum time in Stuttgart (Mercedes Benz) Wolfsburg (VW) Ingolstadt (Audi) and Munich (BMW) to name just a few. French wine producers, among others, will be hitting the bottle as well. I wouldn't worry too much though. The exit negotiations will take two years so clearer minds will come to the fore before then. 2 years of further delay on business decisions. Good to know
Do we take the Swiss or Norwegian template to get a quick 2 year negotiation ? Or a 5 to 10 year negotiation wait as uk is back in the queue when dealing with the USA.
Why take anyone elses template? Do you think that Britain is so stupid that it can't sort out its own deal?
As for dealing with the Americans and the rest of the world, have you ever thought that it could be that it is the sclerotic EU which is slowing everything down?"That could be on reason, although it was what Obama said in the interview as well there about it. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I am just happy that the chief brexit economist finally admitted on radio 4 this morning what people on the remain side have been saying all along... That there will be tariffs put on all trade between the uk and the eu... He used the example of 10% on cars..... but to counter that, won't the tariff hit EU trade with us as well ,as goods will be dearer to import so impacting on a very fragile EU economy? Which is pretty much what I've been saying all along. Yes the EU could hit the UK with tariffs but if they do it will be squeaky bum time in Stuttgart (Mercedes Benz) Wolfsburg (VW) Ingolstadt (Audi) and Munich (BMW) to name just a few. French wine producers, among others, will be hitting the bottle as well. I wouldn't worry too much though. The exit negotiations will take two years so clearer minds will come to the fore before then. 2 years of further delay on business decisions. Good to know
Do we take the Swiss or Norwegian template to get a quick 2 year negotiation ? Or a 5 to 10 year negotiation wait as uk is back in the queue when dealing with the USA.
Why take anyone elses template? Do you think that Britain is so stupid that it can't sort out its own deal?
As for dealing with the Americans and the rest of the world, have you ever thought that it could be that it is the sclerotic EU which is slowing everything down?"If you negotiate a new custom UK deal I guess that takes time. I get the feeling brexit politicians don't know what model they want. Bloody marvellous and a screw up of epic proportions on the cards  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I am still not sure which way my hand will stray when I get in the booth. It will be an Ouija job. However, I think my hand is edging towards the 'out'. What will swing it will be the democratic argument. Tony Benn's words still ring from the grave. "The EU is a carefully constructed mechanism for eliminating all democratic influences hitherto exercised by the electors in the member states; it presents this as a triumph of internationalism, when it is a reversal of democratic gains made in the previous hundred years." When all is said and done, I find directives anathema; we have them foisted upon us without democratic debate, without knowing their origins or rationale and we cannot vote them out. We are told that without the EU we would not have maternity leave or legal leave entitlements or working time restrictions but we would have arrived at something similar, after all for 15 years we had a labour government (who, incidentally, took credit for these) - but we would have debated them and latter governments would be able to change them if the electorate wanted. We may or may not do quite as well out than in but it will not be a disaster so maybe we should sacrifice a little for our freedom. Democracy is not perfect but it is better than Oligarchy. If you think the EU protects workers rights...take a look over the channel to what's happening in France....Erosion of workers rights...not protected by EU at all as it happens. So Corbyns recent argument appears, like most of the rest on both sides, to be utter bollocks!" In France the labour laws are more relaxed than UK or Germany - the aim was to bring them in line. So EU protects workers' right but the French people want to continue to have more protection. So it isn't quite the same. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"One other thing to remember is that this vote isn't just for the EU as it is now. The last referendum was over 40 years ago when Harold Wilson was PM and the EU was called the EEC or Common Market. How things have changed since then. There was no mention of common currency, open borders, or ever closer union, and we were assured that there would NO, that's right NO loss of sovereignty. We keep being told that Britain has a veto on such things as Turkish accession and yes that is true. However a veto is only any good if it is used. Who can say what kind of PM Britain will have in 10 years time? Even Cameron (although he is keeping quiet about it at the moment) is on record as being favourable to Turkey joining. The Lisbon treaty (AKA the EU constitution in a different wrapper) scrapped national veto's in at least 45 areas. Again who can say what the next treaty will change? As I said at the beginning, you are not just voting for the EU of today but the EU as it will be in the next 10, 20 30, 40 years or maybe forever. Think very carefully." The U.K. was very different then too, it will certainly be very different (and probably break up) if we vote leave. Impossible to imagine even 10 years ahead, let alone 40. Why increase the uncertainty and unpredictability by voting "leave"? Indeed, think very, very carefully! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"One other thing to remember is that this vote isn't just for the EU as it is now. The last referendum was over 40 years ago when Harold Wilson was PM and the EU was called the EEC or Common Market. How things have changed since then. There was no mention of common currency, open borders, or ever closer union, and we were assured that there would NO, that's right NO loss of sovereignty. We keep being told that Britain has a veto on such things as Turkish accession and yes that is true. However a veto is only any good if it is used. Who can say what kind of PM Britain will have in 10 years time? Even Cameron (although he is keeping quiet about it at the moment) is on record as being favourable to Turkey joining. The Lisbon treaty (AKA the EU constitution in a different wrapper) scrapped national veto's in at least 45 areas. Again who can say what the next treaty will change? As I said at the beginning, you are not just voting for the EU of today but the EU as it will be in the next 10, 20 30, 40 years or maybe forever. Think very carefully. The U.K. was very different then too, it will certainly be very different (and probably break up) if we vote leave. Impossible to imagine even 10 years ahead, let alone 40. Why increase the uncertainty and unpredictability by voting "leave"? Indeed, think very, very carefully!" I won't argue that a leave vote will cause some uncertainty and unpredictability. But there is nothing certain or predictable about staying in either. As I was trying to point out. No-one knows what the EU will morph in to in years to come. No-one knows what Britain will be forced to accept in the future or what veto's it will lose. Uncertainty and unpredictability is not a one way street. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"One other thing to remember is that this vote isn't just for the EU as it is now. The last referendum was over 40 years ago when Harold Wilson was PM and the EU was called the EEC or Common Market. How things have changed since then. There was no mention of common currency, open borders, or ever closer union, and we were assured that there would NO, that's right NO loss of sovereignty. We keep being told that Britain has a veto on such things as Turkish accession and yes that is true. However a veto is only any good if it is used. Who can say what kind of PM Britain will have in 10 years time? Even Cameron (although he is keeping quiet about it at the moment) is on record as being favourable to Turkey joining. The Lisbon treaty (AKA the EU constitution in a different wrapper) scrapped national veto's in at least 45 areas. Again who can say what the next treaty will change? As I said at the beginning, you are not just voting for the EU of today but the EU as it will be in the next 10, 20 30, 40 years or maybe forever. Think very carefully. The U.K. was very different then too, it will certainly be very different (and probably break up) if we vote leave. Impossible to imagine even 10 years ahead, let alone 40. Why increase the uncertainty and unpredictability by voting "leave"? Indeed, think very, very carefully!" "Probably break up"? I don't think so. Leaving the EU won't cause Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales to leave the UK. Where's your evidence for that 'probably' happening? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"We all know that the EU is run by an enelected and powerful group of people against whom we have no opportunity to protest against at the ballot box. That is profoundly undemocratic, yet we find ourselves being urged by our government to democratically choose to be ruled undemocratically. It is for that reason alone that I will be voting to leave on June 23rd. And your view on the unelected House of Lords is....? Your view on a 'majority' Conservative government achieved by having only 24% of those eligible to vote wanting them in power - Compared with MEP's proportional representation?" You may not realise that the House of Lords protects the people from a hostile government. There has been many instances where the Lords have halted a the passage of an unpopular Bill through the second chamber. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"One other thing to remember is that this vote isn't just for the EU as it is now. The last referendum was over 40 years ago when Harold Wilson was PM and the EU was called the EEC or Common Market. How things have changed since then. There was no mention of common currency, open borders, or ever closer union, and we were assured that there would NO, that's right NO loss of sovereignty. We keep being told that Britain has a veto on such things as Turkish accession and yes that is true. However a veto is only any good if it is used. Who can say what kind of PM Britain will have in 10 years time? Even Cameron (although he is keeping quiet about it at the moment) is on record as being favourable to Turkey joining. The Lisbon treaty (AKA the EU constitution in a different wrapper) scrapped national veto's in at least 45 areas. Again who can say what the next treaty will change? As I said at the beginning, you are not just voting for the EU of today but the EU as it will be in the next 10, 20 30, 40 years or maybe forever. Think very carefully. The U.K. was very different then too, it will certainly be very different (and probably break up) if we vote leave. Impossible to imagine even 10 years ahead, let alone 40. Why increase the uncertainty and unpredictability by voting "leave"? Indeed, think very, very carefully! I won't argue that a leave vote will cause some uncertainty and unpredictability. But there is nothing certain or predictable about staying in either. As I was trying to point out. No-one knows what the EU will morph in to in years to come. No-one knows what Britain will be forced to accept in the future or what veto's it will lose. Uncertainty and unpredictability is not a one way street. " Wasn't that my point? Your absence of comments about what little Britain might be like (if we leave) led me to redress the balance. No certainty about the next year if we Brexit, let alone the next 40! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"We all know that the EU is run by an enelected and powerful group of people against whom we have no opportunity to protest against at the ballot box. That is profoundly undemocratic, yet we find ourselves being urged by our government to democratically choose to be ruled undemocratically. It is for that reason alone that I will be voting to leave on June 23rd. And your view on the unelected House of Lords is....? Your view on a 'majority' Conservative government achieved by having only 24% of those eligible to vote wanting them in power - Compared with MEP's proportional representation? You may not realise that the House of Lords protects the people from a hostile government. There has been many instances where the Lords have halted a the passage of an unpopular Bill through the second chamber." My point was that the UK is also undemocratic in its government. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Vote out and then if it doesn't work out as we planned, rejoin sure the EU will welcome us back with open arms" you're joking who would want a nation to rejoin after it has held back the EU for so many years ..... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Vote out and then if it doesn't work out as we planned, rejoin sure the EU will welcome us back with open arms" To be honest I don't think there will be an EU left to rejoin in 10 years (ish) Should Britain leave there will be quite a few other countries wanting their own referendums and the domino effect will begin. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Apparently Merkal has said UK unlikely to get a good deal if we leave EU " Who cares what she thinks. She will be political toast by September next year, at the latest. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I am just happy that the chief brexit economist finally admitted on radio 4 this morning what people on the remain side have been saying all along... That there will be tariffs put on all trade between the uk and the eu... He used the example of 10% on cars..... but to counter that, won't the tariff hit EU trade with us as well ,as goods will be dearer to import so impacting on a very fragile EU economy? Which is pretty much what I've been saying all along. Yes the EU could hit the UK with tariffs but if they do it will be squeaky bum time in Stuttgart (Mercedes Benz) Wolfsburg (VW) Ingolstadt (Audi) and Munich (BMW) to name just a few. French wine producers, among others, will be hitting the bottle as well. I wouldn't worry too much though. The exit negotiations will take two years so clearer minds will come to the fore before then. 2 years of further delay on business decisions. Good to know
Do we take the Swiss or Norwegian template to get a quick 2 year negotiation ? Or a 5 to 10 year negotiation wait as uk is back in the queue when dealing with the USA.
Why take anyone elses template? Do you think that Britain is so stupid that it can't sort out its own deal?
As for dealing with the Americans and the rest of the world, have you ever thought that it could be that it is the sclerotic EU which is slowing everything down?That could be on reason, although it was what Obama said in the interview as well there about it."Yes Obama who only has a few short months left as President. Donald Trump who could well be the next President of the USA said Britain will be first in the queue for a trade deal if we Brexit. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Apparently Merkal has said UK unlikely to get a good deal if we leave EU Who cares what she thinks. She will be political toast by September next year, at the latest.merkal,s views are way more important than yours who gives a shit what you think not me " As Hotlovefun lives in Germany i think he is more qualified to comment on what is happening in Germany right now than most other people on here. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I am just happy that the chief brexit economist finally admitted on radio 4 this morning what people on the remain side have been saying all along... That there will be tariffs put on all trade between the uk and the eu... He used the example of 10% on cars..... but to counter that, won't the tariff hit EU trade with us as well ,as goods will be dearer to import so impacting on a very fragile EU economy? Which is pretty much what I've been saying all along. Yes the EU could hit the UK with tariffs but if they do it will be squeaky bum time in Stuttgart (Mercedes Benz) Wolfsburg (VW) Ingolstadt (Audi) and Munich (BMW) to name just a few. French wine producers, among others, will be hitting the bottle as well. I wouldn't worry too much though. The exit negotiations will take two years so clearer minds will come to the fore before then. 2 years of further delay on business decisions. Good to know
Do we take the Swiss or Norwegian template to get a quick 2 year negotiation ? Or a 5 to 10 year negotiation wait as uk is back in the queue when dealing with the USA.
Why take anyone elses template? Do you think that Britain is so stupid that it can't sort out its own deal?
As for dealing with the Americans and the rest of the world, have you ever thought that it could be that it is the sclerotic EU which is slowing everything down?That could be on reason, although it was what Obama said in the interview as well there about it.
Yes Obama who only has a few short months left as President. Donald Trump who could well be the next President of the USA said Britain will be first in the queue for a trade deal if we Brexit. "Trump trust fund wanker | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Apparently Merkal has said UK unlikely to get a good deal if we leave EU " On bbc news earlier, she had this msg: Merkel warning as she urges UK to stay Germany's Angela Merkel warns that countries "at the bargaining table" get better deals, as she expresses her hopes that the UK stays in the EU. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Apparently Merkal has said UK unlikely to get a good deal if we leave EU Who cares what she thinks. She will be political toast by September next year, at the latest." My vote is already cast I don't like threats ,misinformation , lies or insults from people with a different opinion to myself F#^k Merkal ! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
As with all politics, its all smoke and mirrors. Believe what you want. All I would suggest is people research the facts and not buy the crap coming from both campaigns.
I'll be voting out. I would have voted out 10 years ago and nothing I have learned since then has changed my mind. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Apparently Merkal has said UK unlikely to get a good deal if we leave EU Who cares what she thinks. She will be political toast by September next year, at the latest.merkal,s views are way more important than yours who gives a shit what you think not me As Hotlovefun lives in Germany i think he is more qualified to comment on what is happening in Germany right now than most other people on here. " the UK will be made an example if if it leaves the EU its pretty reasonable to accept this will happen to persuade others not to leave ..that's not a threat its only reasonable the facts are given before a vote .and no merkal is way more qualified in what will happen than hotlove fun ... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"A far-reaching survey by the European Commission found a large drop in the number of people who believe the presence of foreigners is a good thing for where they live. Those questioned from countries most affected by the migrant crisis were most likely to say that having foreigners in their hometown was a bad thing. Of those asked in Athens, Greece, which has felt the brunt of crisis, 53 per cent totally disagreed that having foreigners in their country was good for the country. More than 1million migrants ended up on Greece's shores in 2015. In addition 76 per cent of Athens residents said foreigners hadn’t integrated well in the city. Residents in Malmo, Sweden - which agreed to let a large swathe of migrants and refugees in last year - 65 per cent of those surveyed did not believe integration had taken place " bloody British migrants in the sun turn every fishing village into blackpool in the sun abroad lol | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I am just happy that the chief brexit economist finally admitted on radio 4 this morning what people on the remain side have been saying all along... That there will be tariffs put on all trade between the uk and the eu... He used the example of 10% on cars..... but to counter that, won't the tariff hit EU trade with us as well ,as goods will be dearer to import so impacting on a very fragile EU economy? Which is pretty much what I've been saying all along. Yes the EU could hit the UK with tariffs but if they do it will be squeaky bum time in Stuttgart (Mercedes Benz) Wolfsburg (VW) Ingolstadt (Audi) and Munich (BMW) to name just a few. French wine producers, among others, will be hitting the bottle as well. I wouldn't worry too much though. The exit negotiations will take two years so clearer minds will come to the fore before then." | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"One other thing to remember is that this vote isn't just for the EU as it is now. The last referendum was over 40 years ago when Harold Wilson was PM and the EU was called the EEC or Common Market. How things have changed since then. There was no mention of common currency, open borders, or ever closer union, and we were assured that there would NO, that's right NO loss of sovereignty. We keep being told that Britain has a veto on such things as Turkish accession and yes that is true. However a veto is only any good if it is used. Who can say what kind of PM Britain will have in 10 years time? Even Cameron (although he is keeping quiet about it at the moment) is on record as being favourable to Turkey joining. The Lisbon treaty (AKA the EU constitution in a different wrapper) scrapped national veto's in at least 45 areas. Again who can say what the next treaty will change? As I said at the beginning, you are not just voting for the EU of today but the EU as it will be in the next 10, 20 30, 40 years or maybe forever. Think very carefully." | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"If I was allowed to vote properly on the EU rulers without Merkel being the unelected leader I might vote to stay but as Merkel now decides whatever she wants I,m out " Another gift to the leave campaign x | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"If I was allowed to vote properly on the EU rulers without Merkel being the unelected leader I might vote to stay but as Merkel now decides whatever she wants I,m out Another gift to the leave campaign x" see.... i don't get the umbridge you all seem to be taking from her comments... she is right in saying that the UK would have more influence on the rules from being on the inside then being on the outside and i don't see why the uk should get everything they want on exit as they have their side of things to look out for... obama said the same thing.... don't expect any sweetheart deals or preferential treatment... and expect hard negioiating and yet everything that isn't a "we will give you everything you want" is treated like a threat to your existance.... i don't remember the uk giving the colonies preference after leaving the empire..... sad thing is you probably have want more influence on EU policy then you give yourself credit for....the uk drags germany along as much as it is the other way round... for example, policy on ukraine... which is why putin is such a strong advocate for the uk leaving..... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"If I was allowed to vote properly on the EU rulers without Merkel being the unelected leader I might vote to stay but as Merkel now decides whatever she wants I,m out Another gift to the leave campaign x see.... i don't get the umbridge you all seem to be taking from her comments... she is right in saying that the UK would have more influence on the rules from being on the inside then being on the outside and i don't see why the uk should get everything they want on exit as they have their side of things to look out for... obama said the same thing.... don't expect any sweetheart deals or preferential treatment... and expect hard negioiating and yet everything that isn't a "we will give you everything you want" is treated like a threat to your existance.... i don't remember the uk giving the colonies preference after leaving the empire..... sad thing is you probably have want more influence on EU policy then you give yourself credit for....the uk drags germany along as much as it is the other way round... for example, policy on ukraine... which is why putin is such a strong advocate for the uk leaving..... " What influence do we get being within the EU? Recent negotiation shows we get chuff all! Such a fallacy that we have a seat at the table. It's not an elected democracy x | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Question time is good tonight, they are saying things like, the day after leaving, the country will turn on itself after doing a huge mistake." Absolute bollocks. Coming from a shit stirrer x | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I want out for the future of my son and the future of Europe. The global rate of youth unemployment is 13% (which obviously includes the EU unemployment rate, so leaving the EU aside it is lower than that) The youth unemployment rate in the EU from France Belgium Portugal Cyprus Italy Croatia Spain To Greece is between 24 and 50%. Now can any Remainer explain that? Or not recognise that that is a bad thing and that the EU isn't working? Or tell us what the consequences of this will be for the future? " People want answers as to what will happen and what the consequences will be. Either way no one can know x | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"If I was allowed to vote properly on the EU rulers without Merkel being the unelected leader I might vote to stay but as Merkel now decides whatever she wants I,m out Another gift to the leave campaign x see.... i don't get the umbridge you all seem to be taking from her comments... she is right in saying that the UK would have more influence on the rules from being on the inside then being on the outside and i don't see why the uk should get everything they want on exit as they have their side of things to look out for... obama said the same thing.... don't expect any sweetheart deals or preferential treatment... and expect hard negioiating and yet everything that isn't a "we will give you everything you want" is treated like a threat to your existance.... i don't remember the uk giving the colonies preference after leaving the empire..... sad thing is you probably have want more influence on EU policy then you give yourself credit for....the uk drags germany along as much as it is the other way round... for example, policy on ukraine... which is why putin is such a strong advocate for the uk leaving..... What influence do we get being within the EU? Recent negotiation shows we get chuff all! Such a fallacy that we have a seat at the table. It's not an elected democracy x" We only get a paltry 1/28th worth of influence in the EU as we are just one country among 28 member countries. 72 times Britain has challenged EU measures and 72 times Britain has lost, so that is 0% success rate Britain has in trying to exercise it's influence in the EU. I also agree with you that the EU cannot be reformed, David Cameron's pathetic renegotiation deal was a shining example of how hostile the EU is to any kind of meaningful reform. The pitiful crumbs Cameron caught dropping from the table are not even legally binding (not Treaty change) and can be dismissed by the EU commission at any time. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"If I was allowed to vote properly on the EU rulers without Merkel being the unelected leader I might vote to stay but as Merkel now decides whatever she wants I,m out Another gift to the leave campaign x see.... i don't get the umbridge you all seem to be taking from her comments... she is right in saying that the UK would have more influence on the rules from being on the inside then being on the outside and i don't see why the uk should get everything they want on exit as they have their side of things to look out for... obama said the same thing.... don't expect any sweetheart deals or preferential treatment... and expect hard negioiating and yet everything that isn't a "we will give you everything you want" is treated like a threat to your existance.... i don't remember the uk giving the colonies preference after leaving the empire..... sad thing is you probably have want more influence on EU policy then you give yourself credit for....the uk drags germany along as much as it is the other way round... for example, policy on ukraine... which is why putin is such a strong advocate for the uk leaving..... What influence do we get being within the EU? Recent negotiation shows we get chuff all! Such a fallacy that we have a seat at the table. It's not an elected democracy x We only get a paltry 1/28th worth of influence in the EU as we are just one country among 28 member countries. 72 times Britain has challenged EU measures and 72 times Britain has lost, so that is 0% success rate Britain has in trying to exercise it's influence in the EU. I also agree with you that the EU cannot be reformed, David Cameron's pathetic renegotiation deal was a shining example of how hostile the EU is to any kind of meaningful reform. The pitiful crumbs Cameron caught dropping from the table are not even legally binding (not Treaty change) and can be dismissed by the EU commission at any time. " It's actually more like 1/10 - The UK has 72 MEPs out of 736 in total. Only Germany has a larger group of MEPs with 99. It gets more interesting when you examine the parliamentary groupings. The EPP is the largest polity and has been since 1999. Up until 2009, Conservative MEPs tended to be in EPP group, while labour inhabited the second largest group, S&D. In 2009 the Conservatives left the EPP and formed the ECR. So... since 1999 - the party of government in Britain has been in opposition in Europe. It's hardly surprising that they keep losing in the votes. The Conservative position on this is particularly interesting though, as they gave up being part of, what is essentially, the EU party of government in 2009, thus pretty much ensuring that British influence in the European parliament was effectively nil. Seems to me that the Tories have been actively working against the interests of the British government in Europe for the last 17 years - even when they themselves have been in power! Also... I remember what side the Conservatives and UKIP were on 2 years ago. The issue of democratic deficit didn't seem to be that important to them back then, and it sure as hell rings hollow now. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"If I was allowed to vote properly on the EU rulers without Merkel being the unelected leader I might vote to stay but as Merkel now decides whatever she wants I,m out Another gift to the leave campaign x see.... i don't get the umbridge you all seem to be taking from her comments... she is right in saying that the UK would have more influence on the rules from being on the inside then being on the outside and i don't see why the uk should get everything they want on exit as they have their side of things to look out for... obama said the same thing.... don't expect any sweetheart deals or preferential treatment... and expect hard negioiating and yet everything that isn't a "we will give you everything you want" is treated like a threat to your existance.... i don't remember the uk giving the colonies preference after leaving the empire..... sad thing is you probably have want more influence on EU policy then you give yourself credit for....the uk drags germany along as much as it is the other way round... for example, policy on ukraine... which is why putin is such a strong advocate for the uk leaving..... What influence do we get being within the EU? Recent negotiation shows we get chuff all! Such a fallacy that we have a seat at the table. It's not an elected democracy x We only get a paltry 1/28th worth of influence in the EU as we are just one country among 28 member countries. 72 times Britain has challenged EU measures and 72 times Britain has lost, so that is 0% success rate Britain has in trying to exercise it's influence in the EU. I also agree with you that the EU cannot be reformed, David Cameron's pathetic renegotiation deal was a shining example of how hostile the EU is to any kind of meaningful reform. The pitiful crumbs Cameron caught dropping from the table are not even legally binding (not Treaty change) and can be dismissed by the EU commission at any time. It's actually more like 1/10 - The UK has 72 MEPs out of 736 in total. Only Germany has a larger group of MEPs with 99. It gets more interesting when you examine the parliamentary groupings. The EPP is the largest polity and has been since 1999. Up until 2009, Conservative MEPs tended to be in EPP group, while labour inhabited the second largest group, S&D. In 2009 the Conservatives left the EPP and formed the ECR. So... since 1999 - the party of government in Britain has been in opposition in Europe. It's hardly surprising that they keep losing in the votes. The Conservative position on this is particularly interesting though, as they gave up being part of, what is essentially, the EU party of government in 2009, thus pretty much ensuring that British influence in the European parliament was effectively nil. Seems to me that the Tories have been actively working against the interests of the British government in Europe for the last 17 years - even when they themselves have been in power! Also... I remember what side the Conservatives and UKIP were on 2 years ago. The issue of democratic deficit didn't seem to be that important to them back then, and it sure as hell rings hollow now."
With turds like Cameron, Johnson et al, it's no surprise that we fritter away opportunities and also have failed to educate this country. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"We all know that the EU is run by an enelected and powerful group of people against whom we have no opportunity to protest against at the ballot box. That is profoundly undemocratic, yet we find ourselves being urged by our government to democratically choose to be ruled undemocratically. It is for that reason alone that I will be voting to leave on June 23rd. And your view on the unelected House of Lords is....? Your view on a 'majority' Conservative government achieved by having only 24% of those eligible to vote wanting them in power - Compared with MEP's proportional representation? You may not realise that the House of Lords protects the people from a hostile government. There has been many instances where the Lords have halted a the passage of an unpopular Bill through the second chamber. My point was that the UK is also undemocratic in its government." We had a referendum on AV in 2011 and we decided we wanted to continue with FPTP and by some considerable margin too. Our elections are the fairest in the world and even now the result in Thanet from last year's GE is being scrutinised by the police for suspected foul play by the Tories. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Also on the "things I didn't believe would happen" list..... Corbyns pro stay speech this morning was particularly strong... I think he needed to be seen making the case to stay and it was done well " I wonder whether striking French trade unionists would agree with his rosy view of the EU. By the way we already pay a tarrif to trade in the EU but it is paid "upfront" (between 8.5 and 10 billion pounds) rather than on each transaction | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"We all know that the EU is run by an enelected and powerful group of people against whom we have no opportunity to protest against at the ballot box. That is profoundly undemocratic, yet we find ourselves being urged by our government to democratically choose to be ruled undemocratically. It is for that reason alone that I will be voting to leave on June 23rd. And your view on the unelected House of Lords is....? Your view on a 'majority' Conservative government achieved by having only 24% of those eligible to vote wanting them in power - Compared with MEP's proportional representation? You may not realise that the House of Lords protects the people from a hostile government. There has been many instances where the Lords have halted a the passage of an unpopular Bill through the second chamber. My point was that the UK is also undemocratic in its government. We had a referendum on AV in 2011 and we decided we wanted to continue with FPTP and by some considerable margin too. Our elections are the fairest in the world and even now the result in Thanet from last year's GE is being scrutinised by the police for suspected foul play by the Tories." You make a fair point with that one. The Tories did pull a stroke in Thanet and will probably get their knuckles rapped for it, and I think most of us will accept that there are a few dodgy postal votes that slip through the net. That said, Britain's system is squeaky clean compared to some other EU countries. I have attended many counts in the UK and have to say that the level of scrutiny is high. Every party has representatives watching for mistakes and/or fraud and I can assure you that there are very few, if any, issues. I was looking at the results from the last election and at the moment I cannot find the exact number for "spoiled ballots" but as I remember the average per constituency was a hundred or two and according to the "votenone" website the number for 2015 is expected to be around 50,000. Compare that to the last German election where independent scrutiny is nothing like as rigorous as the UK. Spoiled or invalid ballots amounted to over 1.2 million and the AFD party that had been polling at around 7-8% for most of the campaign just missed the 5% threshold for seats by a few thousand votes.
Even last months presidential election in Austria threw up a few anomalies. In one locality for example there were just over 3000 men and 2000 odd women eligible to vote. Yet the total votes cast were over 20,000. Last time I looked it was being contested so we shall see.
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
That made me chuckle. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Also on the "things I didn't believe would happen" list..... Corbyns pro stay speech this morning was particularly strong... I think he needed to be seen making the case to stay and it was done well I wonder whether striking French trade unionists would agree with his rosy view of the EU. " I would doubt it. A poll conducted in France only last week had 50% wanting their own referendum on EU membership. Those dominoes are looking very wobbly | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"".... and 2000 odd women eligible to vote."
That made me chuckle. "oops I didn't read it like that before I posted. 
But if 2000 were odd women, what the hell were the missing 15,000? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Apparently Merkal has said UK unlikely to get a good deal if we leave EU Who cares what she thinks. She will be political toast by September next year, at the latest.merkal,s views are way more important than yours who gives a shit what you think not me As Hotlovefun lives in Germany i think he is more qualified to comment on what is happening in Germany right now than most other people on here. the UK will be made an example if if it leaves the EU its pretty reasonable to accept this will happen to persuade others not to leave ..that's not a threat its only reasonable the facts are given before a vote .and no merkal is way more qualified in what will happen than hotlove fun ..." Qualified or not, by the time the real dealing is done she (and Hollande) will be long gone. If Merkel (it's spelled with an E btw) isn't pushed out by her own party beforehand she will pretty certainly lose the election in September next year. It will take more than a million plus spoiled ballots to save her this time. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"".... and 2000 odd women eligible to vote."
That made me chuckle.
oops I didn't read it like that before I posted.
But if 2000 were odd women, what the hell were the missing 15,000?"Do you recall the scene in Gangs of New York where the same people were voting once and then they'd be forced shaved and sent back to vote again. Maybe Austria has more odd women than anywhere else. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"".... and 2000 odd women eligible to vote."
That made me chuckle.
oops I didn't read it like that before I posted.
But if 2000 were odd women, what the hell were the missing 15,000?"Nuns | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
 | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"You're all out for the evening in a pretty good place, everyone is enjoying themselves and prices are affordable. Then someone decides they know a better place to go. So you all get there but some cant get in for various reasons and the prices are double for the same stuff you were having. The few other people there are not who you'd chose to spend the night with spouting on about stuff you really dont think makes sense. You cant go back to the first place as you made such a fuss leaving that the bouncers wont allow re entry... You wish you hadn't listened to the idiot who was only thinking of themselves in the first place... xx"Love this | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"You're all out for the evening in a pretty good place, everyone is enjoying themselves and prices are affordable. Then someone decides they know a better place to go. So you all get there but some cant get in for various reasons and the prices are double for the same stuff you were having. The few other people there are not who you'd chose to spend the night with spouting on about stuff you really dont think makes sense. You cant go back to the first place as you made such a fuss leaving that the bouncers wont allow re entry... You wish you hadn't listened to the idiot who was only thinking of themselves in the first place... xx
Love this "Why, have you never been to a better place? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"It's very noticeable that the Remain campaign can only come up with scare stories about leaving and nothing positive about the benefits of staying in! Is that because they cannot think of any? At least if we vote out then we are responsible for our country and not the faceless bureaucrats in Brussels...ones we have absolutely no control over! " Really? How about these points: 1. To protect our rights: Workers' rights - paid holiday, parental leave. Human rights, the right to live, work and study anywhere in Europe. 2. Solidarity across borders: Climate change, tax avoidance know no boundaries and cannot be solved at national level. 3. To fight the hard right: Referendum is only taking place because of UKIP's xenophobia and Tory divisions. 4. To change Europe: You cannot change it if you're not part of it. Help move towards a democratic Europe, free of austerity economics, that welcomes refugees. "We flourish when we work together on the shared challenges we face." Ignore the rubbish from Cameron and Johnson, et al. Read what people like "Open Democracy", "Diem25", "Another Europe Is Possible", "Friends of the Earth", "Compass", "TUC", etc. have to say. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"You're all out for the evening in a pretty good place, everyone is enjoying themselves and prices are affordable. Then someone decides they know a better place to go. So you all get there but some cant get in for various reasons and the prices are double for the same stuff you were having. The few other people there are not who you'd chose to spend the night with spouting on about stuff you really dont think makes sense. You cant go back to the first place as you made such a fuss leaving that the bouncers wont allow re entry... You wish you hadn't listened to the idiot who was only thinking of themselves in the first place... xx
Love this "How about this version. You are in a nightclub that while quite busy has a few idiots in and they are hassling people. A friend suggests you go to another club down the road, it's not as busy as the first one but the atmosphere is much more relaxed. The next day you hear that in the first club there was an almighty kick off just after you left, the place was wrecked, and a dozen people were hospitalised. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"It's very noticeable that the Remain campaign can only come up with scare stories about leaving and nothing positive about the benefits of staying in! Is that because they cannot think of any? At least if we vote out then we are responsible for our country and not the faceless bureaucrats in Brussels...ones we have absolutely no control over! Really? How about these points: 1. To protect our rights: Workers' rights - paid holiday, parental leave. Human rights, the right to live, work and study anywhere in Europe. 2. Solidarity across borders: Climate change, tax avoidance know no boundaries and cannot be solved at national level. 3. To fight the hard right: Referendum is only taking place because of UKIP's xenophobia and Tory divisions. 4. To change Europe: You cannot change it if you're not part of it. Help move towards a democratic Europe, free of austerity economics, that welcomes refugees. "We flourish when we work together on the shared challenges we face." Ignore the rubbish from Cameron and Johnson, et al. Read what people like "Open Democracy", "Diem25", "Another Europe Is Possible", "Friends of the Earth", "Compass", "TUC", etc. have to say." In other words the hard left. Er, thanks but no thanks. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" It will absolutely impact both sides... 44% of uk exports are to the eu... And 8% of eu exports are to the uk But at least we can finally dismiss the it will have no impact discussion... Prices will go up " Last year we paid about 14.5 Bn (post rebate) to be in an EU that overall traded £61 Bn more to us than we traded to the other countries in the EU. However you twist the percentages in real hard cash that is a nett outflow of capital of some £75 Bn a YEAR from the UK to the EU. Now earlier you trotted out the Labour Party line that there will be '10% tarriffs' added post Brexit. Well they work both ways and I doubt Mrs Merkel will be allowed to do that by German manufacturing which traded a huge surplus with us last year. Who was our biggest trading partner last year? Not anyone in the EU. It was the USA. And that is a country with which the 'Remainers' today would have us believe we have no trade agreements and we would be sent 'to the back of the queue'. Funny that. In September 2012 the UK Government was telling British business to get out and export to non-EU countries in the safe knowledge we had bilateral trade agreements already in place. With places like the USA, Canada, Commonwealth countries especially where we have better terms than does any EU country. I can provide the link but I am not sure Forum rules allow it but Google 'UK bilateral trade relations 2012'. So where is your proof and factual backup to say UK prices will increase post Brexit because of trade changes? Nothing will change with the rest of the world trade. Nothing will change for 2 years with EU countries unless we agree new terms earlier. But we will be negotiating as the 5th largest economy in the worldand as a full negotiating member of the WTO not 1/28th of the EU WTO seat.... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"My Postal Vote arrived today; Vote only once by putting a cross X in the box next to your choice . Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or Leave the European Union . I put my cross in the box stating "Leave the European Union" - X . postal vote sent "Good luck spending the £350,000,000 every week! I can't wait to see all the new hospitals - but I wonder where you will find all the staff? But then again, you'll be ok because Scotland will leave the UK and re-join the EU anyway! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"My Postal Vote arrived today; Vote only once by putting a cross X in the box next to your choice . Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or Leave the European Union . I put my cross in the box stating "Leave the European Union" - X . postal vote sent
Good luck spending the £350,000,000 every week! I can't wait to see all the new hospitals - but I wonder where you will find all the staff?
But then again, you'll be ok because Scotland will leave the UK and re-join the EU anyway!"Most non UK nursing staff are also non EU. Nothing would change for them. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"My Postal Vote arrived today; Vote only once by putting a cross X in the box next to your choice . Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or Leave the European Union . I put my cross in the box stating "Leave the European Union" - X . postal vote sent
Good luck spending the £350,000,000 every week! I can't wait to see all the new hospitals - but I wonder where you will find all the staff?
But then again, you'll be ok because Scotland will leave the UK and re-join the EU anyway!
Most non UK nursing staff are also non EU. Nothing would change for them."and nothing would change for the EU staff | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"My Postal Vote arrived today; Vote only once by putting a cross X in the box next to your choice . Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or Leave the European Union . I put my cross in the box stating "Leave the European Union" - X . postal vote sent
Good luck spending the £350,000,000 every week! I can't wait to see all the new hospitals - but I wonder where you will find all the staff?
But then again, you'll be ok because Scotland will leave the UK and re-join the EU anyway!
Most non UK nursing staff are also non EU. Nothing would change for them.
and nothing would change for the EU staff"No problem then eh? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" We may or may not do quite as well out than in but it will not be a disaster so maybe we should sacrifice a little for our freedom. Democracy is not perfect but it is better than Oligarchy.
Many of the good points Tony Benn made for leaving the EU still stand today. Also as Benjamin Franklin said "Those who give up their freedom for security deserve neither". The EU is chipping away at our democracy, our sovereignty and our freedom bit by bit, day after day, month after month and year after year. We need to Leave now otherwise one day we'll all wake up and realise it's all been taken away from us. "Have to agree. If we don't take the opportunity now it'll be even more difficult in a few years time! Could really bugger up our plans to buy a farmhouse in France though  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" We may or may not do quite as well out than in but it will not be a disaster so maybe we should sacrifice a little for our freedom. Democracy is not perfect but it is better than Oligarchy.
Many of the good points Tony Benn made for leaving the EU still stand today. Also as Benjamin Franklin said "Those who give up their freedom for security deserve neither". The EU is chipping away at our democracy, our sovereignty and our freedom bit by bit, day after day, month after month and year after year. We need to Leave now otherwise one day we'll all wake up and realise it's all been taken away from us.
Have to agree.
If we don't take the opportunity now it'll be even more difficult in a few years time!
Could really bugger up our plans to buy a farmhouse in France though "It won't don't worry. If you have the money they will take it | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The weight of your vote should accompany the likely time the person should be alive in this country. The plus 60s account for more of those who want to exit than the 40s and below who want to remain within the EU. I still am Adamant that this such important issue which will effect our country should have been decided by Parliament. Just DC and the rest of the weak Tory party pandered to the mad Farage UKIP cronies' " No need to vote as you know how everyone is going to vote You decide ! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The weight of your vote should accompany the likely time the person should be alive in this country. The plus 60s account for more of those who want to exit than the 40s and below who want to remain within the EU. I still am Adamant that this such important issue which will effect our country should have been decided by Parliament. Just DC and the rest of the weak Tory party pandered to the mad Farage UKIP cronies' " but my son is 13 and doesn't have a vote so I am voting out on his behalf and for his benefit thanks | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"My Postal Vote arrived today; Vote only once by putting a cross X in the box next to your choice . Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or Leave the European Union . I put my cross in the box stating "Leave the European Union" - X . postal vote sent
Good luck spending the £350,000,000 every week! I can't wait to see all the new hospitals - but I wonder where you will find all the staff?
But then again, you'll be ok because Scotland will leave the UK and re-join the EU anyway!
Most non UK nursing staff are also non EU. Nothing would change for them.
and nothing would change for the EU staff
No problem then eh?"No. If people apply for jobs with the necessary skills and are needed they will still be taken on | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The weight of your vote should accompany the likely time the person should be alive in this country. The plus 60s account for more of those who want to exit than the 40s and below who want to remain within the EU. I still am Adamant that this such important issue which will effect our country should have been decided by Parliament. Just DC and the rest of the weak Tory party pandered to the mad Farage UKIP cronies' but my son is 13 and doesn't have a vote so I am voting out on his behalf and for his benefit thanks" sad to see you want to see a life of unemployment and lack of opertunity for your 13,year old son .... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"My Postal Vote arrived today; Vote only once by putting a cross X in the box next to your choice . Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or Leave the European Union . I put my cross in the box stating "Leave the European Union" - X . postal vote sent " | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"My Postal Vote arrived today; Vote only once by putting a cross X in the box next to your choice . Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or Leave the European Union . I put my cross in the box stating "Leave the European Union" - X . postal vote sent
"going to post our postal votes tomorrow have put our cross in the right box REMAIN ..... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The EU is chipping away at our democracy, our sovereignty and our freedom bit by bit, day after day, month after month and year after year. We need to Leave now otherwise one day we'll all wake up and realise it's all been taken away from us. To me this is just hyperbole. What are the dreadful things the EU has done to this country, exactly? They've made our government adhere to higher environmental standards? Tackled discrimination in the work place? The EU isn't perfect, but the way some people are talking it sounds like they've swallowed Boris's guff about the EU being the 2nd coming of the Nazis." Not true I feel as most regulation is done at a global level. The EU is just a middle man implementing global regs and rules and these days is proving to be more of an obstruction as most middle men tend to be. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"My Postal Vote arrived today; Vote only once by putting a cross X in the box next to your choice . Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or Leave the European Union . I put my cross in the box stating "Leave the European Union" - X . postal vote sent
going to post our postal votes tomorrow have put our cross in the right box REMAIN ....."How does that work if you're not a resident? What a joke | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"My Postal Vote arrived today; Vote only once by putting a cross X in the box next to your choice . Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or Leave the European Union . I put my cross in the box stating "Leave the European Union" - X . postal vote sent
going to post our postal votes tomorrow have put our cross in the right box REMAIN ....."You live permanently in Fuel to ventura, and you've got the cheek to vote for something that really doesn't concern you? Think I'll apply to put my vote in for the next POTUS. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So uk votes to leave what happens with the Uks land border with eu ??" nothing, why? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The weight of your vote should accompany the likely time the person should be alive in this country. The plus 60s account for more of those who want to exit than the 40s and below who want to remain within the EU. I still am Adamant that this such important issue which will effect our country should have been decided by Parliament. Just DC and the rest of the weak Tory party pandered to the mad Farage UKIP cronies' but my son is 13 and doesn't have a vote so I am voting out on his behalf and for his benefit thanks" why is he on benefits | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So uk votes to leave what happens with the Uks land border with eu ??" France said that they wont guard and hold the migrants back in calais, so uk would get an influx of 50k of them. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"My Postal Vote arrived today; Vote only once by putting a cross X in the box next to your choice . Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or Leave the European Union . I put my cross in the box stating "Leave the European Union" - X . postal vote sent
going to post our postal votes tomorrow have put our cross in the right box REMAIN .....
You live permanently in Fuel to ventura, and you've got the cheek to vote for something that really doesn't concern you?
Think I'll apply to put my vote in for the next POTUS."I've not got a problem with that, the problem is he keeps telling us the advantages of staying in the EU but doesn't have the nerve to take any advantage of them. Works illegally and pays for his own health insurance etc | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So uk votes to leave what happens with the Uks land border with eu ??France said that they wont guard and hold the migrants back in calais, so uk would get an influx of 50k of them." gather up the polish guys and their going to build a big fence for £2.50 an hour | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The weight of your vote should accompany the likely time the person should be alive in this country. The plus 60s account for more of those who want to exit than the 40s and below who want to remain within the EU. I still am Adamant that this such important issue which will effect our country should have been decided by Parliament. Just DC and the rest of the weak Tory party pandered to the mad Farage UKIP cronies' but my son is 13 and doesn't have a vote so I am voting out on his behalf and for his benefit thanks why is he on benefits "if we stay in the EU probably yes | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So uk votes to leave what happens with the Uks land border with eu ??France said that they wont guard and hold the migrants back in calais, so uk would get an influx of 50k of them." I meant land border | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The weight of your vote should accompany the likely time the person should be alive in this country. The plus 60s account for more of those who want to exit than the 40s and below who want to remain within the EU. I still am Adamant that this such important issue which will effect our country should have been decided by Parliament. Just DC and the rest of the weak Tory party pandered to the mad Farage UKIP cronies' but my son is 13 and doesn't have a vote so I am voting out on his behalf and for his benefit thanks why is he on benefits
if we stay in the EU probably yes"and if we leave definitely yes | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So uk votes to leave what happens with the Uks land border with eu ??France said that they wont guard and hold the migrants back in calais, so uk would get an influx of 50k of them." read the law on that one | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The weight of your vote should accompany the likely time the person should be alive in this country. The plus 60s account for more of those who want to exit than the 40s and below who want to remain within the EU. I still am Adamant that this such important issue which will effect our country should have been decided by Parliament. Just DC and the rest of the weak Tory party pandered to the mad Farage UKIP cronies' but my son is 13 and doesn't have a vote so I am voting out on his behalf and for his benefit thanks why is he on benefits
if we stay in the EU probably yesand if we leave definitely yes "so benefits are safe either way then | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The weight of your vote should accompany the likely time the person should be alive in this country. The plus 60s account for more of those who want to exit than the 40s and below who want to remain within the EU. I still am Adamant that this such important issue which will effect our country should have been decided by Parliament. Just DC and the rest of the weak Tory party pandered to the mad Farage UKIP cronies' but my son is 13 and doesn't have a vote so I am voting out on his behalf and for his benefit thanks why is he on benefits
if we stay in the EU probably yesand if we leave definitely yes "why? Like the rest of Europe you mean? Do you know how many kids are unemployed in Europe thanks to the EU? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"My Postal Vote arrived today; Vote only once by putting a cross X in the box next to your choice . Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or Leave the European Union . I put my cross in the box stating "Leave the European Union" - X . postal vote sent
going to post our postal votes tomorrow have put our cross in the right box REMAIN .....
How does that work if you're not a resident? What a joke"It works because 1. You retain UK citizenship. 2. You may well pay UK tax on income derived from UK, 3. If you have income from UK; then exchange rates are important 4. Depending one ones status ( retired or working) one may be paying UK NI; and the U.K. May be paying for healthcare under the reciprocal arrangements. 5. Because as a UK citizen, you are entitled to vote, and you don't have to live in UK to be concerned about, and have a right to a say in, how UK does it's business. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"My Postal Vote arrived today; Vote only once by putting a cross X in the box next to your choice . Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or Leave the European Union . I put my cross in the box stating "Leave the European Union" - X . postal vote sent
going to post our postal votes tomorrow have put our cross in the right box REMAIN .....
You live permanently in Fuel to ventura, and you've got the cheek to vote for something that really doesn't concern you?
Think I'll apply to put my vote in for the next POTUS.
I've not got a problem with that, the problem is he keeps telling us the advantages of staying in the EU but doesn't have the nerve to take any advantage of them. Works illegally and pays for his own health insurance etc you fucking liar i have a work contract and pay into social as well ..and an exit affects all UK passport holders just because many have a bungie strap attached to mother England and we take advantage of what the EU has to offer ...it concerns all UK citizens across the world but typical small minded brexiters dont like next time liar check your facts we are legal here you know jack shit ..can i work here legally yes have i been kicked out of Fuerteventura. No were legal you know fuck all "well you didn't last week. And you said in this thread you don't have a Residencia so can't be legal | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"My Postal Vote arrived today; Vote only once by putting a cross X in the box next to your choice . Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or Leave the European Union . I put my cross in the box stating "Leave the European Union" - X . postal vote sent
going to post our postal votes tomorrow have put our cross in the right box REMAIN .....
How does that work if you're not a resident? What a joke
It works because
1. You retain UK citizenship.
2. You may well pay UK tax on income derived from UK,
3. If you have income from UK; then exchange rates are important
4. Depending one ones status ( retired or working) one may be paying UK NI; and the U.K. May be paying for healthcare under the reciprocal arrangements.
5. Because as a UK citizen, you are entitled to vote, and you don't have to live in UK to be concerned about, and have a right to a say in, how UK does it's business."all true. But not in the case of _horehouse | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"My Postal Vote arrived today; Vote only once by putting a cross X in the box next to your choice . Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or Leave the European Union . I put my cross in the box stating "Leave the European Union" - X . postal vote sent
going to post our postal votes tomorrow have put our cross in the right box REMAIN .....
You live permanently in Fuel to ventura, and you've got the cheek to vote for something that really doesn't concern you?
Think I'll apply to put my vote in for the next POTUS.
I've not got a problem with that, the problem is he keeps telling us the advantages of staying in the EU but doesn't have the nerve to take any advantage of them. Works illegally and pays for his own health insurance etc you fucking liar i have a work contract and pay into social as well ..and an exit affects all UK passport holders just because many have a bungie strap attached to mother England and we take advantage of what the EU has to offer ...it concerns all UK citizens across the world but typical small minded brexiters dont like next time liar check your facts we are legal here you know jack shit ..can i work here legally yes have i been kicked out of Fuerteventura. No were legal you know fuck all
well you didn't last week. And you said in this thread you don't have a Residencia so can't be legal"you don't need residencia ....i have been to social last week to get social number no residencia req pay rates aw well pay tax here no residencia req taxed car no residencia req ..still have no residencia wow and I'm still living here been to gardia cival still no residencia req think about it its possible to live many years without it so stop it with your lies | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"My Postal Vote arrived today; Vote only once by putting a cross X in the box next to your choice . Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or Leave the European Union . I put my cross in the box stating "Leave the European Union" - X . postal vote sent
going to post our postal votes tomorrow have put our cross in the right box REMAIN .....
How does that work if you're not a resident? What a joke
It works because
1. You retain UK citizenship.
2. You may well pay UK tax on income derived from UK,
3. If you have income from UK; then exchange rates are important
4. Depending one ones status ( retired or working) one may be paying UK NI; and the U.K. May be paying for healthcare under the reciprocal arrangements.
5. Because as a UK citizen, you are entitled to vote, and you don't have to live in UK to be concerned about, and have a right to a say in, how UK does it's business.
all true. But not in the case of _horehouseyou must be one dumb shit if you cant work out how to do it and yea it is legal dumb mother fucker
ooh. From 28 March 2007 Royal Decree 240/07 requires that all EU citizens planning to reside in Spain for more than 3 months should register at the Oficina de Extranjeros in their province of residence or designated police station so that they can live and work legally. I have been living and working there on and off a lot longer than you tio, so who is lying?"you are one you mention it your self SHOULD ..i also spoke to the polica as I over night trip back to the UK for business so each time I enter I start a new time period ..so check your full facts before trying to spout laws to which you know only what you interpret grow the written word !!!!!!!!!! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So uk votes to leave what happens with the Uks land border with eu ??France said that they wont guard and hold the migrants back in calais, so uk would get an influx of 50k of them." We do not actually have a land border with France .... And we will go back to the same arrangements we had with Eire as we had before and no one seemed to mind. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" if you believe BMW as owners of a lot of the car manufacturers supposedly British will pay 10% tax on every car built in the UK and sold in the EU and not move the factory. by all means vote out. " i so tried explaining that point... and gave a step by step.... but all i got was "la la la i'm not listening...." | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" if you believe BMW as owners of a lot of the car manufacturers supposedly British will pay 10% tax on every car built in the UK and sold in the EU and not move the factory. by all means vote out. i so tried explaining that point... and gave a step by step.... but all i got was "la la la i'm not listening...." "I know, I watched, but it is impossible to explain that the EU isn't the problem, it's the UK government who fail and use the EU as the excuse. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"It's very noticeable that the Remain campaign can only come up with scare stories about leaving and nothing positive about the benefits of staying in! Is that because they cannot think of any? At least if we vote out then we are responsible for our country and not the faceless bureaucrats in Brussels...ones we have absolutely no control over! Really? How about these points: 1. To protect our rights: Workers' rights - paid holiday, parental leave. Human rights, the right to live, work and study anywhere in Europe. 2. Solidarity across borders: Climate change, tax avoidance know no boundaries and cannot be solved at national level. 3. To fight the hard right: Referendum is only taking place because of UKIP's xenophobia and Tory divisions. 4. To change Europe: You cannot change it if you're not part of it. Help move towards a democratic Europe, free of austerity economics, that welcomes refugees. "We flourish when we work together on the shared challenges we face." Ignore the rubbish from Cameron and Johnson, et al. Read what people like "Open Democracy", "Diem25", "Another Europe Is Possible", "Friends of the Earth", "Compass", "TUC", etc. have to say." | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"It's very noticeable that the Remain campaign can only come up with scare stories about leaving and nothing positive about the benefits of staying in! Is that because they cannot think of any? At least if we vote out then we are responsible for our country and not the faceless bureaucrats in Brussels...ones we have absolutely no control over! Really? How about these points: 1. To protect our rights: Workers' rights - paid holiday, parental leave. Human rights, the right to live, work and study anywhere in Europe. 2. Solidarity across borders: Climate change, tax avoidance know no boundaries and cannot be solved at national level. 3. To fight the hard right: Referendum is only taking place because of UKIP's xenophobia and Tory divisions. 4. To change Europe: You cannot change it if you're not part of it. Help move towards a democratic Europe, free of austerity economics, that welcomes refugees. "We flourish when we work together on the shared challenges we face." Ignore the rubbish from Cameron and Johnson, et al. Read what people like "Open Democracy", "Diem25", "Another Europe Is Possible", "Friends of the Earth", "Compass", "TUC", etc. have to say. "Great rhetoric, but as one vote in 28, how do you initiate change when no one else wants to change?? UK has lost 72 out of 72 votes it has objected to, not a track record that instills confidence that we can lead a positive change from within the EU. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" if you believe BMW as owners of a lot of the car manufacturers supposedly British will pay 10% tax on every car built in the UK and sold in the EU and not move the factory. by all means vote out. i so tried explaining that point... and gave a step by step.... but all i got was "la la la i'm not listening...."
I know, I watched, but it is impossible to explain that the EU isn't the problem, it's the UK government who fail and use the EU as the excuse. " | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I am still not sure which way my hand will stray when I get in the booth. It will be an Ouija job. However, I think my hand is edging towards the 'out'. What will swing it will be the democratic argument. Tony Benn's words still ring from the grave. "The EU is a carefully constructed mechanism for eliminating all democratic influences hitherto exercised by the electors in the member states; it presents this as a triumph of internationalism, when it is a reversal of democratic gains made in the previous hundred years." When all is said and done, I find directives anathema; we have them foisted upon us without democratic debate, without knowing their origins or rationale and we cannot vote them out. We are told that without the EU we would not have maternity leave or legal leave entitlements or working time restrictions but we would have arrived at something similar, after all for 15 years we had a labour government (who, incidentally, took credit for these) - but we would have debated them and latter governments would be able to change them if the electorate wanted. We may or may not do quite as well out than in but it will not be a disaster so maybe we should sacrifice a little for our freedom. Democracy is not perfect but it is better than Oligarchy. If you think the EU protects workers rights...take a look over the channel to what's happening in France....Erosion of workers rights...not protected by EU at all as it happens. So Corbyns recent argument appears, like most of the rest on both sides, to be utter bollocks! In France the labour laws are more relaxed than UK or Germany - the aim was to bring them in line. So EU protects workers' right but the French people want to continue to have more protection. So it isn't quite the same." Exactly....the EU are reducing French workers rights! You made my point perfectly.... They favour big business and cheap labour...supported by free movement. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"My Postal Vote arrived today; Vote only once by putting a cross X in the box next to your choice . Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or Leave the European Union . I put my cross in the box stating "Leave the European Union" - X . postal vote sent
going to post our postal votes tomorrow have put our cross in the right box REMAIN .....
How does that work if you're not a resident? What a joke
It works because
1. You retain UK citizenship.
2. You may well pay UK tax on income derived from UK,
3. If you have income from UK; then exchange rates are important
4. Depending one ones status ( retired or working) one may be paying UK NI; and the U.K. May be paying for healthcare under the reciprocal arrangements.
5. Because as a UK citizen, you are entitled to vote, and you don't have to live in UK to be concerned about, and have a right to a say in, how UK does it's business.
all true. But not in the case of _horehouseyou must be one dumb shit if you cant work out how to do it and yea it is legal dumb mother fucker
ooh. From 28 March 2007 Royal Decree 240/07 requires that all EU citizens planning to reside in Spain for more than 3 months should register at the Oficina de Extranjeros in their province of residence or designated police station so that they can live and work legally. I have been living and working there on and off a lot longer than you tio, so who is lying?you are one you mention it your self SHOULD ..i also spoke to the polica as I over night trip back to the UK for business so each time I enter I start a new time period ..so check your full facts before trying to spout laws to which you know only what you interpret grow the written word !!!!!!!!!!"lol so what use is the EU to you if you have to leave the country every 3 months? Pmsl! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Great rhetoric, but as one vote in 28, how do you initiate change when no one else wants to change?? UK has lost 72 out of 72 votes it has objected to, not a track record that instills confidence that we can lead a positive change from within the EU." actaully... that not true either..... what has happened in the last 5 years since expansion is that the uk has going from being on the side the decisions made from 98% of the time to 88% of the time.... which for those "all about sovereignty" half glass empty people nay sayers kinda buries the lead... We are on the side of the decisions being made 88% of the time!!!!!!! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Great rhetoric, but as one vote in 28, how do you initiate change when no one else wants to change?? UK has lost 72 out of 72 votes it has objected to, not a track record that instills confidence that we can lead a positive change from within the EU. actaully... that not true either..... what has happened in the last 5 years since expansion is that the uk has going from being on the side the decisions made from 98% of the time to 88% of the time.... which for those "all about sovereignty" half glass empty people nay sayers kinda buries the lead... We are on the side of the decisions being made 88% of the time!!!!!!! " That leaves a lot of stuff we don't agree with. As I said earlier there is plenty of stuff the EU does which is good, but there remains some serious flaws in its construct which goes against many democratic principles. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" if you believe BMW as owners of a lot of the car manufacturers supposedly British will pay 10% tax on every car built in the UK and sold in the EU and not move the factory. by all means vote out. " A very selective comment. So: The EU put up 10% tariffs on UK goods which might include BMW owned Minis made in Oxford. You forgot to mention that the UK would respond in like fashion and put up 10% tariffs on BMW cars made in Germany sold in the UK. So according to your logic BMW would shut down Oxford and move the factory to Germany where they would THEN pay a 10% tariff on Minis exported to the UK .... Hmmmmm
Maybe BMW bought Mini because the UK was in the EU of course. So why are they also manufacturing Minis in Austria? And on the subject of car manufacturers and the EU, which Cameron and you Remainers say secures jobs, where was the job security for 10,000 car workers in Ruyton when Peugeot moved 207 production to Slovakia (then outside the EU)? Or when Ford laid of thousands of workers in Southampton and moved Transit production to Turkey (outside the EU). or when they also shut down car production in the UK completely. Oh wait you didn't realise every Ford is now imported?
Here is a reality check for you. The UK is the biggest single market for German made cars. There is NO way Ford, GM, VAG, BMW or MB would allow Merkel to support an increase in ANY trade tariffs.
Of course given our £61 Bn trade deficit with the EU a 10% tariff would raise an extra £6.1 Bn every year for the UK Treasury .... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" if you believe BMW as owners of a lot of the car manufacturers supposedly British will pay 10% tax on every car built in the UK and sold in the EU and not move the factory. by all means vote out. A very selective comment. So: The EU put up 10% tariffs on UK goods which might include BMW owned Minis made in Oxford. You forgot to mention that the UK would respond in like fashion and put up 10% tariffs on BMW cars made in Germany sold in the UK. So according to your logic BMW would shut down Oxford and move the factory to Germany where they would THEN pay a 10% tariff on Minis exported to the UK .... Hmmmmm
Maybe BMW bought Mini because the UK was in the EU of course. So why are they also manufacturing Minis in Austria? And on the subject of car manufacturers and the EU, which Cameron and you Remainers say secures jobs, where was the job security for 10,000 car workers in Ruyton when Peugeot moved 207 production to Slovakia (then outside the EU)? Or when Ford laid of thousands of workers in Southampton and moved Transit production to Turkey (outside the EU). or when they also shut down car production in the UK completely. Oh wait you didn't realise every Ford is now imported?
Here is a reality check for you. The UK is the biggest single market for German made cars. There is NO way Ford, GM, VAG, BMW or MB would allow Merkel to support an increase in ANY trade tariffs.
Of course given our £61 Bn trade deficit with the EU a 10% tariff would raise an extra £6.1 Bn every year for the UK Treasury .... "Oh stop it! The Remainers will have nothing left to wet themselves and argue about soon! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Here is a reality check for you. The UK is the biggest single market for German made cars. There is NO way Ford, GM, VAG, BMW or MB would allow Merkel to support an increase in ANY trade tariffs. Of course given our £61 Bn trade deficit with the EU a 10% tariff would raise an extra £6.1 Bn every year for the UK Treasury .... "I hear a lot that the UK is the biggest single market... which doesnt make much sense purely on a population basis. So I looked up sales and manufacturing numbers for Merc's in 2014 the UK bought just under 1% of the cars made that year. I know everything is guesswork, but I got a guess that some people will still buy with a tax tariff added. and I suspect that Merc. will survive on 99.5% give or take of current sales. We are a small country, Most of our industry is owned by non UK companies, We really are not that big a player in this game. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Where's the stay boys, they given up and moved to French "Busy fuckin'. Soz | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" if you believe BMW as owners of a lot of the car manufacturers supposedly British will pay 10% tax on every car built in the UK and sold in the EU and not move the factory. by all means vote out. A very selective comment." that comment didn't come for the remain side... it came from the Chief brexit economist on radio 4's "today" programme this morning... but lets go on.... "So: The EU put up 10% tariffs on UK goods which might include BMW owned Minis made in Oxford. You forgot to mention that the UK would respond in like fashion and put up 10% tariffs on BMW cars made in Germany sold in the UK. So according to your logic BMW would shut down Oxford and move the factory to Germany where they would THEN pay a 10% tariff on Minis exported to the UK .... Hmmmmm "because that would make ecomonic sense... if you are selling more of a product line in the entire EU than you are in the UK, you are going to manufacture in the place that is going to cost you less in tariffs in the long run.... think of it like this... would you pay a tariff on 20,000 cars from the eu coming into the uk... or 200,000 cars from the uk going to the EU.... so we go on...... "Maybe BMW bought Mini because the UK was in the EU of course. So why are they also manufacturing Minis in Austria? " because under the little thing called the single market... there are no tarriffs... so they can move products around at little cost other than shipping...... remember you want out of the single market area!!!! doing well so far... and we continue.... "And on the subject of car manufacturers and the EU, which Cameron and you Remainers say secures jobs, where was the job security for 10,000 car workers in Ruyton when Peugeot moved 207 production to Slovakia (then outside the EU)? Or when Ford laid of thousands of workers in Southampton and moved Transit production to Turkey (outside the EU). or when they also shut down car production in the UK completely. Oh wait you didn't realise every Ford is now imported?" slovakia and turkey whilst not part of the EU, are part of the single market free trade area that you want out of as part of brexit...... hence no tariffs..... so on we go....... "Here is a reality check for you. The UK is the biggest single market for German made cars. There is NO way Ford, GM, VAG, BMW or MB would allow Merkel to support an increase in ANY trade tariffs." wont have any choice in the matter... on leaving the single market they would actually be subject to WTO trade and tariff rules..... if you want of example of how this works in what we like to call "the real would"....try finding out how much tariffs go on for example a harley davidson bike coming across here from the US..... "Of course given our £61 Bn trade deficit with the EU a 10% tariff would raise an extra £6.1 Bn every year for the UK Treasury .... "thank you for showing no basic understanding of how the economy of car manufacturing actually works.... because a lot of the UK car manufacturing lines would have gone.... and the huge supply side manufacturing line going for the same reason (if the car building go overseas they aren't going to import the secondary car parts they need from the uk either because of... erm... tariffs) | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I'm just wondering which laws we have been stopped from making as a result of being in the EU? And which laws we want to pass, or get rid of, if we Brexit? Let's hope they're not the ones that got this country to clean up its act regarding the environment, or improve workers' rights, etc... To maintain credibility, please avoid using the word "migrants" or "immigrants" in your answer. I think the stay side should absolutely play up the benefits the eu have given us thru the working time directives.... The maternity pay, the shorter working hours limits, the 4 weeks paid leave we all get as a minimum, part time workers entitled to the same benefits as full time workers and so on.... The problem is the things they have given us gets taken for granted And there's no guarantee that the benefits we have had will remain if we leave the EU. " don't be so f***ing stupid, there would be hell on earth if companies & employers tried to remove these benefits, only the gutless would allow that to happen oh wait, were in the UK, many gutless here, most are voting remain | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" In the EU we are a major voice, despite our tiny size." No we aren't. We are 1/28th just like Holland or Denmark. We carry no more 'weight' than Albania will when it joins. " Outside the EU we are a tiny squeak. " No we aren't. We are the 5th (soon to be the 4th) largest economy in the world. We are a major military power. We are the 1st in the world in 'soft power' (according to the UN). We are the second largest member in NATO. We have a veto in the UN security Council and we will retrieve our WTO seat rather than be 1/28th of the EU seat. " Hardly any of our laws are impacted by EU " 59% of our major laws are made in Brussels and we HAVE to enact them (UK Parliamentary Library) and some 80% of all Regulations come from Brussels. " the Calais camps are there to co-operate with EU and France on immigration. There will be no reason for France to keep them ..." Well actually the camps in Calais are nothing to do with us at all. They exist because the EU have opened all borders from the Med to the Channel and the illegal migrants do not wish to claim asylum in France / Italy / wherever. The fact the UK border is in Calais and the French border is in Dover is nothing to do with the EU. Its a Bilateral Agreement with France. " If we are scared of Turkey we need to work in the EU to address it, it will be a nightmare outside, where we have no voice. " So we stay in, we keep getting ignored as we have been for 20 years and then have our borders open to 75 million Turks? Nah no thanks. The nightmare is what you just described by us staying in. " It took Switzerland some 20 yrs to get trade agreements in place and they had something's the EU wanted, it was motivated." The Swiss needed the EU more than the EU needed the Swiss (apart from dodgy bank accounts) and why they accepted 'Free Movement' as the price of entry. The EU though needs us more than we need the EU which makes for a different discussion. We are the EU's second biggest economy and considerably bigger than the Swiss one. Oh and by the way we already have a trade agreement with the EU and it will remain for at least 2 years until a new one is negotiated. We already have bilateral trade agreements with every other country outside the EU under which we already trade with no help from the EU. " The US and China see us as a base to start trade with Europe as we have the language and the culture of diplomacy. This will be lost. " You just listed the reasons they will stay investing in the UK. We have the laws, language, systems and networks. China chose us the lead in their new Asian Investment bank. Nothing to do with the EU. The fact we are in the EU is a secondary consideration. The German Bourse is buying the UK Stock Exchange, Airbus have said they are going nowhere else unless they invest outside the EU, Nissan have spent £ Mns developing Sunderland and its their most efficient car plant and HSBC decided to keep London as its global HQ. BAE Systems will still make 25% of every F35 for Lockheed Martin. All done since the Referendum was announced. Companies are investing right now in the UK despite the possibility of us leaving the EU. " Our financial powerhouse in London will do better being placed in Frankfurt, our GNP will be damaged. " If Frankfurt is so attractive why haven't all the banks and others moved there already? After all its in the EU as well? You gave the reasons above .... " In we have a say, we can change the way the EU does things. Outside we will be a tiny place of 62m folk on a global stage. " You are in cloud cuckoo land my friend. We have been beaten 72 out of 72 when we tried to change the EU. We have the fewest MEPs per capita than any other nation. The EU does not do 'change'. It has a plan and a goal and will never be diverted from that end. Bit by bit it will take your freedom and subsume the UK into a United States of Europe. Look what happened to Cameron in those 'negotiations'. He got NOTHING. " It is now a global stage, and belief we have empire or commonwealth as our power house has long gone. " No one mentioned 'empire'. But we do have a huge Commonwealth of some 55 trading nations in which we have better trading terms than any other EU country. 16 of them share our Head of State whjo is the Head of that Commonwealth. Its why we can trade, and have been trading, preferentially with Canada and all the others. " Best learn German and Mandarin " Nah... I speak English. The International trading language of the world. A language spoken by our biggest trading partner countries. Even the Chinese trade in English. Its why we will be a huge success outside the failing EU. we will have a different economy more globally focussed and will be able to swiftly change our ways to react to global changes. Like we will be able to save our steel industry which the EU is happily killing. Vote OUT on June 23rd. Our new Independence Day. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" In the EU we are a major voice, despite our tiny size. No we aren't. We are 1/28th just like Holland or Denmark. We carry no more 'weight' than Albania will when it joins. Outside the EU we are a tiny squeak. No we aren't. We are the 5th (soon to be the 4th) largest economy in the world. We are a major military power. We are the 1st in the world in 'soft power' (according to the UN). We are the second largest member in NATO. We have a veto in the UN security Council and we will retrieve our WTO seat rather than be 1/28th of the EU seat. Hardly any of our laws are impacted by EU 59% of our major laws are made in Brussels and we HAVE to enact them (UK Parliamentary Library) and some 80% of all Regulations come from Brussels. the Calais camps are there to co-operate with EU and France on immigration. There will be no reason for France to keep them ... Well actually the camps in Calais are nothing to do with us at all. They exist because the EU have opened all borders from the Med to the Channel and the illegal migrants do not wish to claim asylum in France / Italy / wherever. The fact the UK border is in Calais and the French border is in Dover is nothing to do with the EU. Its a Bilateral Agreement with France. If we are scared of Turkey we need to work in the EU to address it, it will be a nightmare outside, where we have no voice. So we stay in, we keep getting ignored as we have been for 20 years and then have our borders open to 75 million Turks? Nah no thanks. The nightmare is what you just described by us staying in. It took Switzerland some 20 yrs to get trade agreements in place and they had something's the EU wanted, it was motivated. The Swiss needed the EU more than the EU needed the Swiss (apart from dodgy bank accounts) and why they accepted 'Free Movement' as the price of entry. The EU though needs us more than we need the EU which makes for a different discussion. We are the EU's second biggest economy and considerably bigger than the Swiss one. Oh and by the way we already have a trade agreement with the EU and it will remain for at least 2 years until a new one is negotiated. We already have bilateral trade agreements with every other country outside the EU under which we already trade with no help from the EU. The US and China see us as a base to start trade with Europe as we have the language and the culture of diplomacy. This will be lost. You just listed the reasons they will stay investing in the UK. We have the laws, language, systems and networks. China chose us the lead in their new Asian Investment bank. Nothing to do with the EU. The fact we are in the EU is a secondary consideration. The German Bourse is buying the UK Stock Exchange, Airbus have said they are going nowhere else unless they invest outside the EU, Nissan have spent £ Mns developing Sunderland and its their most efficient car plant and HSBC decided to keep London as its global HQ. BAE Systems will still make 25% of every F35 for Lockheed Martin. All done since the Referendum was announced. Companies are investing right now in the UK despite the possibility of us leaving the EU. Our financial powerhouse in London will do better being placed in Frankfurt, our GNP will be damaged. If Frankfurt is so attractive why haven't all the banks and others moved there already? After all its in the EU as well? You gave the reasons above .... In we have a say, we can change the way the EU does things. Outside we will be a tiny place of 62m folk on a global stage. You are in cloud cuckoo land my friend. We have been beaten 72 out of 72 when we tried to change the EU. We have the fewest MEPs per capita than any other nation. The EU does not do 'change'. It has a plan and a goal and will never be diverted from that end. Bit by bit it will take your freedom and subsume the UK into a United States of Europe. Look what happened to Cameron in those 'negotiations'. He got NOTHING. It is now a global stage, and belief we have empire or commonwealth as our power house has long gone. No one mentioned 'empire'. But we do have a huge Commonwealth of some 55 trading nations in which we have better trading terms than any other EU country. 16 of them share our Head of State whjo is the Head of that Commonwealth. Its why we can trade, and have been trading, preferentially with Canada and all the others. Best learn German and Mandarin Nah... I speak English. The International trading language of the world. A language spoken by our biggest trading partner countries. Even the Chinese trade in English. Its why we will be a huge success outside the failing EU. we will have a different economy more globally focussed and will be able to swiftly change our ways to react to global changes. Like we will be able to save our steel industry which the EU is happily killing. Vote OUT on June 23rd. Our new Independence Day." ANOTHER OUT / EXIT / LEAVE VOTE HERE | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
