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Gun laws

By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Been forwarded a few videos about gun culture in the U.S., I pressed play on the first one thinking I knew where I stood on gun control, but now I'm not so sure.

You see I have been confronted by some normal people, who have made rational arguments for the preservation of the second amendment, I was expecting some shit talking American shouting about it being his God given right to shoot at what ever he wanted, whenever he wanted, but I found intelligence and understanding of the anti gun lobby

And I've got to tell you, I'm wondering if our own gun control is a little over the top, I mean I understand that dunblane was the ultimate turning point, and I cried out for a total ban on guns at the time.

But I do wonder if Lee Rigby would still be alive, if one of the passers by had been armed, would all of the 7/7 bombers have detonated their devices, had there been armed bystanders?

But on the other side of the coin, would the London riots have had a higher death toll, or less looters.

Who knows

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By *ophieslutTV/TS over a year ago

Central

The evidence doesn't really support that the American approach improves safety imo.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Been forwarded a few videos about gun culture in the U.S., I pressed play on the first one thinking I knew where I stood on gun control, but now I'm not so sure.

But I do wonder if Lee Rigby would still be alive, if one of the passers by had been armed, would all of the 7/7 bombers have detonated their devices, had there been armed bystanders?

But on the other side of the coin, would the London riots have had a higher death toll, or less looters.

Who knows"

I think the suicide bombers use those switches that detonate when let go, rather than pressed. Shooting the bombers would have the same explosive result.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Been forwarded a few videos about gun culture in the U.S., I pressed play on the first one thinking I knew where I stood on gun control, but now I'm not so sure.

But I do wonder if Lee Rigby would still be alive, if one of the passers by had been armed, would all of the 7/7 bombers have detonated their devices, had there been armed bystanders?

But on the other side of the coin, would the London riots have had a higher death toll, or less looters.

Who knows

I think the suicide bombers use those switches that detonate when let go, rather than pressed. Shooting the bombers would have the same explosive result."

In that situation no, it wouldn't help would it

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple over a year ago

Derbyshire

I don't know, but the 'murders by population' figures look pretty persuasive to me, and armed vigilantes should never replace the rule of law.

Mr ddc

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

The US Consitution is over 200 years old.

To understand the Second Amendment (ratified in 1791) we first have to understand the world from which it emerged. In 1791, the US was in its nascency after it had just completed a very messy, bloody divorce from Britain.

Maybe a 'well-regulated militia' seemed like a good idea at the time because everyone was sca_ed shitless of another war breaking out and unable to field an army.

While getting rid of the Second Amendment won’t end gun violence, it’s worth reminding everyone we live in a very, very different world from the one in which it was written.

...a world in which American toddlers have shot one person a week this year...

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

I don't think more guns is the answer to violence - or more accurately, fear of violence mixed up with Americans' own fears about their government.

Wrapped up in an 18th century law.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Been forwarded a few videos about gun culture in the U.S., I pressed play on the first one thinking I knew where I stood on gun control, but now I'm not so sure.

But I do wonder if Lee Rigby would still be alive, if one of the passers by had been armed, would all of the 7/7 bombers have detonated their devices, had there been armed bystanders?

But on the other side of the coin, would the London riots have had a higher death toll, or less looters.

Who knows"

Those for and those against will never be capable of a sensible dialogue as their narrow mindness doesn't permit reasoning.

Although I have a feeling the against mob will be worse than the for mob.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The US Consitution is over 200 years old.

Maybe a 'well-regulated militia' seemed like a good idea at the time because everyone was sca_ed shitless of another war breaking out and unable to field an army.

While getting rid of the Second Amendment won’t end gun violence, it’s worth reminding everyone we live in a very, very different world from the one in which it was written.

...a world in which American toddlers have shot one person a week this year..."

Isn't google great

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"The US Consitution is over 200 years old.

Maybe a 'well-regulated militia' seemed like a good idea at the time because everyone was sca_ed shitless of another war breaking out and unable to field an army.

While getting rid of the Second Amendment won’t end gun violence, it’s worth reminding everyone we live in a very, very different world from the one in which it was written.

...a world in which American toddlers have shot one person a week this year..."

I think it goes beyond the 2nd amendment now, there used to be a particular demographic that was pro gun, but I think that it's shifting , with the younger generation, I know the lead singer of the Eagles of death metal is now more than ever an advocate if carrying a gun, it was their audience that were shot at during the recent Paris attacks

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I don't think guns sit with our culture.

I get nervous when I see those young policemen at Waterloo station holding guns.

The longer our culture feels the same, the safer we are.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I don't think guns sit with our culture.

I get nervous when I see those young policemen at Waterloo station holding guns.

The longer our culture feels the same, the safer we are."

A lot of people think we're safer with guns banned, but people are still getting shot, I myself was unfortunate enough to be out with some friends, and the car we were in was shot at, none of us were hurt, but all of the gun crimes being committed are with illegal guns, not licensed registe_ed guns

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

Reminds me of that old Larson cartoon.

A flying saucer bearing the bumper sticker:

"Ray-guns don't kill Zorbonians, Zorbonians kill Zorbonians."

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

It all depends on how fearful you are

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By *yrdwomanWoman over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

"I know the lead singer of the Eagles of death metal is now more than ever an advocate if carrying a gun, it was their audience that were shot at during the recent Paris attacks"

And more guns would have helped?

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"It all depends on how fearful you are"

Well if we don't get out of the EU and the immigration tsunami hits us, saturating the whole country in foreign criminals, and causing jobless British people to roam the streets looking for revenge for missing bent cucumber, the right wing will be pushing for gun laws to be reversed, you mark my words

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

"It all depends on how fearful you are

You forgot Zombies

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By *ophieslutTV/TS over a year ago

Central

I would much prefer the current or tighter restrictions here. Too much of US culture has already invaded.

Terrorism isn't particularly dangerous - very few inju_ed or killed, compa_ed to everyday driving etc. And they'd do it irrespective of whether we had more, just like they do in the middle east.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

No matter what you do,nothing will change.If you ban all guns tomorrow,it just means law abiding people won't have them.The nutcases on the other hand will still have them...so what's changed,and what have you achieved.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I know the lead singer of the Eagles of death metal is now more than ever an advocate if carrying a gun, it was their audience that were shot at during the recent Paris attacks

And more guns would have helped?"

I think his rationale was that firing back, would have been better than trying to run, and being a fish in a barrel

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

"I would much prefer the current or tighter restrictions here. Too much of US culture has already invaded.

Terrorism isn't particularly dangerous - very few inju_ed or killed, compa_ed to everyday driving etc. And they'd do it irrespective of whether we had more, just like they do in the middle east."

As many UK citizens have been killed worldwide through terrorism over the last decade as have died from bee stings.

Don't see us pouring billions into combating the menace of bees

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By *yrdwomanWoman over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

"I know the lead singer of the Eagles of death metal is now more than ever an advocate if carrying a gun, it was their audience that were shot at during the recent Paris attacks

And more guns would have helped?

I think his rationale was that firing back, would have been better than trying to run, and being a fish in a barrel "

Unfortunately panicked shooting probably wouldn't have helped at all.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

A gun has one basic function ......

They weren't invented to be a deterrent,,,

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I don't think guns sit with our culture.

I get nervous when I see those young policemen at Waterloo station holding guns.

The longer our culture feels the same, the safer we are.

What's the saying

'Guns don't kill people, stupid motherfuckers with guns kill people'

People are still getting shot, but I do believe far fewer get shot with our current laws than if guns were legal. I think it eliminates certain crimes of passion, when that _ed mist descends and you have easy access to a gun, you can walk into anywhere and start shooting.

I'm against guns, I'm a pacifist. I was myself a victim of gun crime, I was mugged at gunpoint and suffe_ed a concussion after being pistol whipped. My stance didn't change, I wouldn't have been able to protect myself any better if I was carrying a gun because it was pointed at me before I could really react.

I think one lesson we can all learn from this thread though is don't come to Birmingham.

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By *ildt123Man over a year ago

Huddersfield

Difficult to apply our values to their culture. I certainly wouldn't want and American approach to guns here, imho death rates would rise. However if the U.S. Ban them now all it will do is take guns out of the hands of the law abiding and leave them in the hands of the criminal ( they won't hand them in) shifting the balance in favour of the lawless. Their whole psyche is different to ours in this, we don't have the history of personal gun ownership in the same way they do.

I prefer our values but it doesn't mean it's right for them.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I don't think guns sit with our culture.

I get nervous when I see those young policemen at Waterloo station holding guns.

The longer our culture feels the same, the safer we are.

What's the saying

'Guns don't kill people, stupid motherfuckers with guns kill people'

I think one lesson we can all learn from this thread though is don't come to Birmingham."

Birmingham is one of the worst places outside London for gun crime, I've seen it first hand, how guns get passed around like old mobiles only the guns are cheaper

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By *mokes n MirrorsCouple over a year ago

Plymouth and Newcastle (sometimes)

If arming the population works...How come no random member of the community has shot and killed a terrorist/nutcase at any of the school/cinema massacres or workplace/street shootouts?

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Difficult to apply our values to their culture. I certainly wouldn't want and American approach to guns here, imho death rates would rise. However if the U.S. Ban them now all it will do is take guns out of the hands of the law abiding and leave them in the hands of the criminal ( they won't hand them in) shifting the balance in favour of the lawless. Their whole psyche is different to ours in this, we don't have the history of personal gun ownership in the same way they do.

I prefer our values but it doesn't mean it's right for them."

I'm not saying it would be right for us to adopt the American way of thinking when it comes to fire arms, I mean I can't see anyone I know wanting or needing assault rifles, but I can see where restricted gun ownership, and concealed carry would be of an advantage to certain members of society

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I don't think guns sit with our culture.

I get nervous when I see those young policemen at Waterloo station holding guns.

The longer our culture feels the same, the safer we are.

What's the saying

'Guns don't kill people, stupid motherfuckers with guns kill people'

I think one lesson we can all learn from this thread though is don't come to Birmingham.

Birmingham is one of the worst places outside London for gun crime, I've seen it first hand, how guns get passed around like old mobiles only the guns are cheaper "

There are parts of Birmingham that are really horrific, I try to avoid them. But then, people say the area I'm from is pretty bad.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I don't think guns sit with our culture.

I get nervous when I see those young policemen at Waterloo station holding guns.

The longer our culture feels the same, the safer we are.

I am not au fait with the statistics but I would imagine that there are more gun crimes in the USA than here.

You know. You see a gun here and you go, "Agh, a gun."

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I prefer our gun laws here. How does our gun crime equate when measu_ed against the USA?

My father used to have a gun licence as he went out rabbiting and shooting game. He had a licence, kept them in a locked cabinet and they were inspected annually. Isn't that better than carrying them around anywhere, when you might misread a situation and shoot someone?

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"If arming the population works...How come no random member of the community has shot and killed a terrorist/nutcase at any of the school/cinema massacres or workplace/street shootouts? "

Firstly school and university campuses largely have a ban on concealed weapons and secondly there have been many instances of the public intervening when crimes involving guns have taken place, some states gun laws are different from others

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By *ust RachelTV/TS over a year ago

Horsham

"I know the lead singer of the Eagles of death metal is now more than ever an advocate if carrying a gun, it was their audience that were shot at during the recent Paris attacks

And more guns would have helped?

I think his rationale was that firing back, would have been better than trying to run, and being a fish in a barrel "

And hitting their own fans as well, that won't go down with the fan club. Plus how do you stop a terrorist with hand grenades, shoot them and the grenades still blow up.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

More guns will always equal more deaths I say.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"More guns will always equal more deaths I say. "

More legal, or illegal guns though?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Just about everyone I know owns a gun,weather it's a rifle,shotgun or air rifle.I don't know if it's because we were brought up with owning guns,that attitudes towards them are different.

At the weekend I was clay shooting with a 12 year old girl,I didn't think twice when I was pai_ed up with her.She was a cracking shot,and it was a pleasure to shoot with her.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Been forwarded a few videos about gun culture in the U.S., I pressed play on the first one thinking I knew where I stood on gun control, but now I'm not so sure.

But I do wonder if Lee Rigby would still be alive, if one of the passers by had been armed, would all of the 7/7 bombers have detonated their devices, had there been armed bystanders?

But on the other side of the coin, would the London riots have had a higher death toll, or less looters.

Who knows"

Dunblane was,in part, the fault of masons, the old boys brigade,giving a gun to someone that shouldn't have had one.

Lee rigbys killers would probably have been shot - good.

London riots, maybe a lot of them wouldn't have been out if they knew they could have been shot at.

I am pro guns

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"More guns will always equal more deaths I say.

More legal, or illegal guns though?"

We have guns legally here now, but I can't imagine more guns would help, in either capacity really.

America has an insane gun attitude, not even presidents can combat that. We're so much safer.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I don't think guns sit with our culture.

I get nervous when I see those young policemen at Waterloo station holding guns.

The longer our culture feels the same, the safer we are.

But do you think we'd be any safer with registe_ed licenced guns proliferating ?

There's the argument that guns don't kill people, but people kill people.

But without guns that's gong to be far less likely

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

People in possession of guns should be shot on sight.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"People in possession of guns should be shot on sight."

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By *adyboy-DaddyCouple over a year ago

Andover

The only way citizens carying guns will stop other citizens shooting people will be if we all wal around our weapon drawn and aimed at everyone else in case they shoot first!!!

In the main, the lunatic Gunman is clearly not deter_ed by the threat of death as they invariably shoot themselves or get shot anyway.

Armed civilians might save a few lives by _educing the responce time of getting an armed unit there but that's hugely outweighed by the thousands killed as a result of every idiot that wants one having a gun.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Been forwarded a few videos about gun culture in the U.S., I pressed play on the first one thinking I knew where I stood on gun control, but now I'm not so sure.

But I do wonder if Lee Rigby would still be alive, if one of the passers by had been armed, would all of the 7/7 bombers have detonated their devices, had there been armed bystanders?

But on the other side of the coin, would the London riots have had a higher death toll, or less looters.

Who knows"

Lee rigby may have been alive but tens of thousands of people would have died each year due to the guns.

Worth while trade?

Another way to look at it in january and febuary this year alone in the usa there were 49 mass shootings.

Its currently several hund_ed so far this year.

Google "usa mass shootings 2016".

Mass shooting is any with 4 or more victims

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Been forwarded a few videos about gun culture in the U.S., I pressed play on the first one thinking I knew where I stood on gun control, but now I'm not so sure.

But I do wonder if Lee Rigby would still be alive, if one of the passers by had been armed, would all of the 7/7 bombers have detonated their devices, had there been armed bystanders?

But on the other side of the coin, would the London riots have had a higher death toll, or less looters.

Who knows"

We will never know if gun laws would have saved Lee Rigby but I doubt it, his killers wanted to be martyrs. And I can't see how gun laws could have impacted 7/7

But America has mass shootings (4 or more fatalities) on a daily basis, an unbelievably high homicide rate, shooting in schools, shooting in shopping malls. I can;t see how any possible benefit could outweigh that death toll

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

London riots, maybe a lot of them wouldn't have been out if they knew they could have been shot at.

I am pro guns "

Or a lot of them would have been out with guns.....

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Armed civilians get d*unk or have mood swings or can have a low threshold as what they consider to be an ultimate insult.

I witnessed a minor traffic accident in Johannesburg spiral in to a shoot out whereas here it would have been no more than handbags at dawn or a punch up.

The blatantly obvious - less guns around means less people get shot.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Ah that was the stat i was looking for over 300 mass shootings occu_ed last christmas day alone in the usa.

If they had been carried out by brown people yelling allah akbar imagine the news coverage 300+ terror attacks in one day

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I've never heard an argument that is pro arms that has changed my mind. I wouldn't trust any member of the public with a gun. I'm even wary of certain professions having guns as I'm not convinced they can be trusted.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Been forwarded a few videos about gun culture in the U.S., I pressed play on the first one thinking I knew where I stood on gun control, but now I'm not so sure.

But I do wonder if Lee Rigby would still be alive, if one of the passers by had been armed, would all of the 7/7 bombers have detonated their devices, had there been armed bystanders?

But on the other side of the coin, would the London riots have had a higher death toll, or less looters.

Who knows

We will never know if gun laws would have saved Lee Rigby but I doubt it, his killers wanted to be martyrs. And I can't see how gun laws could have impacted 7/7

These shooters go into places to kill people as they are soft targets. if the people in there were armed they might think twice

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Been forwarded a few videos about gun culture in the U.S., I pressed play on the first one thinking I knew where I stood on gun control, but now I'm not so sure.

But I do wonder if Lee Rigby would still be alive, if one of the passers by had been armed, would all of the 7/7 bombers have detonated their devices, had there been armed bystanders?

But on the other side of the coin, would the London riots have had a higher death toll, or less looters.

Who knows

We will never know if gun laws would have saved Lee Rigby but I doubt it, his killers wanted to be martyrs. And I can't see how gun laws could have impacted 7/7

These shooters go into places to kill people as they are soft targets. if the people in there were armed they might think twice"

How old does a kid need to be to be armed, is 5 the cut off? Maybe kindergarten kids should have Uzis.

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

Oh just LOL at all the gun-totin' people who'd think nothing of shooting someone who looks a bit shifty.

LOL at your fears.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

OK if every citizen of the UK was allowed to purchase and own a gun because it was written into our own laws Anarchay would arise

I will take Saturday as an example. Scottish Cup Final thousands of Hibernian fans invade the park and run to the other end goading the opposing supporters. Now the religious bigotry that goes on here between Celtic/Hibernian and Rangers is so unhealthy that there would daily shootings. The cup final would have been a bloodbath

No under no reasons whatsoever do I wish to see ordinary citizens in Scotland allowed freely to walk the streets with a fire arm. The knife crime in and around

Glasgow is epidemic as it is without them trading in their blades for

guns

I am a recently reti_ed Glasgow Door Supervisor and I have been shot at, been attacked with katana, bayonets, Bowie/Rambo style blades, Stanley knives and yes once in a Wetherspoons with a dinner fork. Hate to imagine wheny life would have ended if people were allowed guns

Guns don't belong on our streets

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Been forwarded a few videos about gun culture in the U.S., I pressed play on the first one thinking I knew where I stood on gun control, but now I'm not so sure.

But I do wonder if Lee Rigby would still be alive, if one of the passers by had been armed, would all of the 7/7 bombers have detonated their devices, had there been armed bystanders?

But on the other side of the coin, would the London riots have had a higher death toll, or less looters.

Who knows

We will never know if gun laws would have saved Lee Rigby but I doubt it, his killers wanted to be martyrs. And I can't see how gun laws could have impacted 7/7

These shooters go into places to kill people as they are soft targets. if the people in there were armed they might think twice"

I really fail to see any logic in this argument.

It totally ignores the fact that even excluding the shootings in schools and malls the homicide rate in America is crazy

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

https://youtu.be/0rR9IaXH1M0

https://youtu.be/a9UFyNy-rw4

Jim Jefferies on gun control..

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

...and how do you stop 'the people in there' from flipping and shooting others ?

Many of the US massacres are carried out by pupils, disgruntled employees.

Murderers are often only successful with the element of surprise - arming more people will only give more people that element.

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

"I really fail to see any logic in this argument."

You're looking for logic where there is none - it's an emotive response based on fear.

Ergo, not the best hands into which to place a weapon.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Been forwarded a few videos about gun culture in the U.S., I pressed play on the first one thinking I knew where I stood on gun control, but now I'm not so sure.

But I do wonder if Lee Rigby would still be alive, if one of the passers by had been armed, would all of the 7/7 bombers have detonated their devices, had there been armed bystanders?

But on the other side of the coin, would the London riots have had a higher death toll, or less looters.

Who knows

We will never know if gun laws would have saved Lee Rigby but I doubt it, his killers wanted to be martyrs. And I can't see how gun laws could have impacted 7/7

These shooters go into places to kill people as they are soft targets. if the people in there were armed they might think twice"

They happen in concealed and open carry states too

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By *adyboy-DaddyCouple over a year ago

Andover

In case you haven't seen it, check out this YouTube vid:

Search "Jim Jefferies gun control"

It's in two parts, is very funny but more importantly, he makes very, very good points.

Well worth a watch.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I don't think guns sit with our culture.

I get nervous when I see those young policemen at Waterloo station holding guns.

The longer our culture feels the same, the safer we are.

I prefer_ed when we could own handguns in the same way as we can hold rifles today, okay we can still own handguns but not to the degree before Dunblane.

Sadly even firearms inspectors today only have basic knowledge in handling firearms, I presented them with a southern gun straight pull and they had no idea how to ensure it was made safe or indeed check the chamber.

Good firearm knowledge is essential for anyone in use of one, including police & forces, sadly this lacks in all areas.

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

I think it would only be fair if every man, woman and child in the UK were given a gun.

Fair?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I think it would only be fair if every man, woman and child in the UK were given a gun.

Fair?

absolutely not

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

"I think it would only be fair if every man, woman and child in the UK were given a gun.

Fair?

absolutely not"

It would be fair tho

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"London riots, maybe a lot of them wouldn't have been out if they knew they could have been shot at.

Arguably if Duggan hadn't been carrying a gun and rumou_ed to be on his way to kill someone the riots would never have happened.

And I was living on Hackney when the riots kicked off, I remember being at home watching the TV and struggling to hear the coverage because the camera filming the pictures was hovering overhead. So I was pretty close to the epicenter and unless my memory has very much distorted the rioters were looting and fighting the police, guns wouldn't have made them fear being killed it would have made the whole situation many times worse

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I don't think the solution is more guns/less guns it's deeper than that, the USA is a strange case, there's still an element of wild west, there's elements of deep racial divides, there's elements of poverty, of police mistrust and more importantly there's an element that it's just gone too far!.

More guns in Switzerland don't seem to cause to much problem but then they lead a very orderly life with far less of the troubles the states have, more guns in Mexico would obviously be disastrous and more guns in the UK would obviously be disastrous.... What we actually should be doing is clamping down on gun crime before we get to the USA stage not reverting to citizens shooting it out in the Trafford centre.

The trouble with legal ownership of guns is you can never quite tell when some sane looking person is about to go gaga and I think we'd all prefer them going gaga with a knife than a ak47

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Imagine similar levels of gun ownership during the riots of 2011..

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

No sorry completely anti guns

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By *uvesmuffinCouple over a year ago

Barking

Not one riot or Mass shooting has ever been avoided/aborted by members of the public carrying guns and as for Lee Rigby he would still be dead regardless whether the scum-bags were shot or not

Gimp

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Not one riot or Mass shooting has ever been avoided/aborted by members of the public carrying guns and as for Lee Rigby he would still be dead regardless whether the scum-bags were shot or not

Gimp"

Unfortunately & I know it makes me sound like a bit of a nutter but some of the examples being used here were perpetrated to evoke discussions just like this

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By *arksidesubCouple over a year ago

not far from you..

People are dangerous NOT guns!

Same on knife crime.I'm a knife maker (spere time hobby of mine) yes I'm a gal.I was raised around guns & knives.thankfully I'm sane!..it really is the loons" who spoil are passion unfortunately!..x

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By *arksidesubCouple over a year ago

not far from you..

"People are dangerous NOT guns!

Same on knife crime.I'm a knife maker (spere time hobby of mine) yes I'm a gal.I was raised around guns & knives.thankfully I'm sane!..it really is the loons" who spoil are passion unfortunately!..x

Spare**

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Dunblane was,in part, the fault of masons, the old boys brigade,giving a gun to someone that shouldn't have had one.

I'm too young to duly remember this but why did they let him have a gun?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"People are dangerous NOT guns!

Same on knife crime.I'm a knife maker (spere time hobby of mine) yes I'm a gal.I was raised around guns & knives.thankfully I'm sane!..it really is the loons" who spoil are passion unfortunately!..x

"
.

We could use that argument with nuclear weapons or drink driving, I'm a perfectly sensible d*unk driver, I could drive 99% of the time with no problems, however being a human I'd be prone to rashs of madness and during that madness it would be better I was sober and thinking more level headed.

It's the same with guns, most owners of guns never think there'll kill themselves with it but sadly statistically they do. And sadly if thousands upon thousands had guns the chances are greatly increased that a couple of them will just go bonkers, you know it happens everyday, it's just usually thanks to gun laws they rarely have a gun on them when they do go nuts

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Dunblane was,in part, the fault of masons, the old boys brigade,giving a gun to someone that shouldn't have had one.

I'm too young to duly remember this but why did they let him have a gun?"
.

References for a guy who should have never had references

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Dunblane was,in part, the fault of masons, the old boys brigade,giving a gun to someone that shouldn't have had one.

I'm too young to duly remember this but why did they let him have a gun?.

References for a guy who should have never had references

I don't get that

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Dunblane was,in part, the fault of masons, the old boys brigade,giving a gun to someone that shouldn't have had one.

I'm too young to duly remember this but why did they let him have a gun?.

References for a guy who should have never had references

I don't get that "
.

When you apply for a gun licence you need references that your a nice person etc etc.

The criticism of dunblane was that old school slap ourselves on the back types cove_ed up for misgivings in personality

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By *uvesmuffinCouple over a year ago

Barking

"People are dangerous NOT guns!

Same on knife crime.I'm a knife maker (spere time hobby of mine) yes I'm a gal.I was raised around guns & knives.thankfully I'm sane!..it really is the loons" who spoil are passion unfortunately!..x

Ahh but you say your sane but how are we to know

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By *arksidesubCouple over a year ago

not far from you..

"People are dangerous NOT guns!

Same on knife crime.I'm a knife maker (spere time hobby of mine) yes I'm a gal.I was raised around guns & knives.thankfully I'm sane!..it really is the loons" who spoil are passion unfortunately!..x

Ahh but you say your sane but how are we to know

Quite right!.I like your thinking!..really I'm just a woman with a passion your safe x

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

There are plenty of undiagnosed schizophrenics out there who would appear perfectly sane to the gun licensing authorities.

In 1996 there were two attacks on primary school classes by deranged madmen. At Dunblane Thomas Hamilton had a firearm and 16 children died - at Wolverhampton Irving Campbell had a machete and although the teacher and some children were hurt none were killed.

We shouldn't need to keep stating the obvious.

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By *edMan over a year ago

cambridgeshire

Dunblane was,in part, the fault of masons, the old boys brigade,giving a gun to someone that shouldn't have had one.

I'm too young to duly remember this but why did they let him have a gun?"

In those days many people had guns to shoot for sporting purposes, and for fun. The use of guns for sporting purposes MASSIVELY outweighed any use for crime or even police. That man should never have been allowed a gun in the first place. He was a suspected paedophile, and the firearms dept in the police recommended his guns be taken away due to the suspicions and the fact that he was a member of a gun club but never shot there.

The story now is that he only kept the licence because the senior officer overruled the firearms Sargent because of Masonic links.

Also the trigger if you like was that the police were clamping down on his 'boys clubs' where alleged abuse was taking place.

There is now a 100 year ban on any information being released. This is apparently for the parents who tragically lost children or had them maimed. Some conspiracy theorists maintain the 100 year ban is possibly as much to do with protecting some of the police force involved at a senior level.

Conspiracy theories also abound about if the gunman did actually shoot himself or if he was shot by the police.

Even as a sports shooter myself I find the last conspiracy theory too much to bear, but who knows...

But, the OP has done a good thing to raise this. Adult (as in grown up) debate is healthy on control of guns and everyone should be allowed to voice an opinion without being shouted down.

Well done that man!

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By *adyboy-DaddyCouple over a year ago

Andover

i think we have a pretty good balance as we are.

If you have a penchant for guns you can have a shotgun and take up clay shooting.

There's no good reason for a member of the public to have handguns and assault rifles.

Control by local police issuing certificates does not work.

I walked to the gym this afternoon. Past the police station where a local guy had his gun licence renewed just 2 weeks before he shot himself in the school that the gym is based in.

Not before killing 16 people and injury I think 17 others though.

Anyone who thinks that an individual's right to own a gun is more important than another's right not to get shot walking down the street is a cock.

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By *rightonsteveMan over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

"i think we have a pretty good balance as we are.

If you have a penchant for guns you can have a shotgun and take up clay shooting.

There's no good reason for a member of the public to have handguns and assault rifles.

Control by local police issuing certificates does not work.

I walked to the gym this afternoon. Past the police station where a local guy had his gun licence renewed just 2 weeks before he shot himself in the school that the gym is based in.

Not before killing 16 people and injury I think 17 others though.

Anyone who thinks that an individual's right to own a gun is more important than another's right not to get shot walking down the street is a cock. "

And a limp cock at that.

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By *edMan over a year ago

cambridgeshire

"i think we have a pretty good balance as we are.

If you have a penchant for guns you can have a shotgun and take up clay shooting.

There's no good reason for a member of the public to have handguns and assault rifles.

Control by local police issuing certificates does not work.

I walked to the gym this afternoon. Past the police station where a local guy had his gun licence renewed just 2 weeks before he shot himself in the school that the gym is based in.

Not before killing 16 people and injury I think 17 others though.

Anyone who thinks that an individual's right to own a gun is more important than another's right not to get shot walking down the street is a cock. "

So what exactly makes a shotgun safe enough for a public full of nutters and weirdos???

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Although a good debate this thread has become fundemantally flawed. People are using the Americans as an argument for both sides when it is a well known fact Americans are often a pickled egg short of a picnic.

I am a believer of being able to protect your home and family by all means necessary and feel people should have the choice to apply for a licenced fire arm for their house. Subject to stringent criteria naturally.

Although I personally wouldn't want a gun in my house.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

I doubt there is any reversing our gun laws, I doubt there is any reversing Americas gun laws,

I doubt any one wants them to change, but it's a debate that I found interesting

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By *eovilcouple76Couple over a year ago

yeovil

If you have a penchant for guns you can have a shotgun and take up clay shooting.

There's no good reason for a member of the public to have handguns and assault rifles. "

Yeah cause no one has ever been killed by a shotgun before have they???

No good reason for handguns is there not?? Explain that to all the people who used to target shoot with theirs before the ludicrous ban.

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By *illwill69uMan over a year ago

moston

"Been forwarded a few videos about gun culture in the U.S., I pressed play on the first one thinking I knew where I stood on gun control, but now I'm not so sure.

But I do wonder if Lee Rigby would still be alive, if one of the passers by had been armed, would all of the 7/7 bombers have detonated their devices, had there been armed bystanders?

But on the other side of the coin, would the London riots have had a higher death toll, or less looters.

Who knows"

I can only see one reasonable argument for keeping the 2nd amendment or for giving the population of the UK (or any other country) similar rights. That is that the 2nd amendment gives US citizens the power to genuinely resist the US States and Federal Governments imposition of martial law without the tacit consent of the population.

However when you look at the rates of gun crime in the USA (and other countries with relativity free access to firearms) I have to say that I think the costs far outweigh benefits.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Oh and concealed and open Cary of hand guns is legal in................northern ireland

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By *adyboy-DaddyCouple over a year ago

Andover

"i think we have a pretty good balance as we are.

If you have a penchant for guns you can have a shotgun and take up clay shooting.

There's no good reason for a member of the public to have handguns and assault rifles.

Control by local police issuing certificates does not work.

I walked to the gym this afternoon. Past the police station where a local guy had his gun licence renewed just 2 weeks before he shot himself in the school that the gym is based in.

Not before killing 16 people and injury I think 17 others though.

Anyone who thinks that an individual's right to own a gun is more important than another's right not to get shot walking down the street is a cock.

So what exactly makes a shotgun safe enough for a public full of nutters and weirdos???"

It's poor capacity to reload quickly and it's ineffective ability to kill someone at longer range.

Obviousley a nutter with a shotgun could still kill someone but there are a lot of people with a legitimate need for one so I guess it's all about what is reasonably practicable.

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By *adyboy-DaddyCouple over a year ago

Andover

No good reason for handguns is there not?? Explain that to all the people who used to target shoot with theirs before the ludicrous ban. "

What, you mean people like me?

The ban was pure common sense. Ludicrous?

What planet are you on?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"i think we have a pretty good balance as we are.

If you have a penchant for guns you can have a shotgun and take up clay shooting.

There's no good reason for a member of the public to have handguns and assault rifles.

Control by local police issuing certificates does not work.

I walked to the gym this afternoon. Past the police station where a local guy had his gun licence renewed just 2 weeks before he shot himself in the school that the gym is based in.

Not before killing 16 people and injury I think 17 others though.

Anyone who thinks that an individual's right to own a gun is more important than another's right not to get shot walking down the street is a cock.

So what exactly makes a shotgun safe enough for a public full of nutters and weirdos???"

4 round magazine cap, and a long barrel to make concelment difficult.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Been forwarded a few videos about gun culture in the U.S., I pressed play on the first one thinking I knew where I stood on gun control, but now I'm not so sure.

But I do wonder if Lee Rigby would still be alive, if one of the passers by had been armed, would all of the 7/7 bombers have detonated their devices, had there been armed bystanders?

But on the other side of the coin, would the London riots have had a higher death toll, or less looters.

Who knows

However when you look at the rates of gun crime in the USA (and other countries with relativity free access to firearms) I have to say that I think the costs far outweigh benefits."

It really doesnt though does it.

All the AR 15s in the world aint gonna stop a Bradley

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Although a good debate this thread has become fundemantally flawed. People are using the Americans as an argument for both sides when it is a well known fact Americans are often a pickled egg short of a picnic.

Although I personally wouldn't want a gun in my house."

So what kind of gun should they have for home defence?

Now lets say shotgun, its locked in a safe, unloaded ammo sto_ed seperately.

Somone breaks in you aint gonna get to it unlock it load it and get it ready in time to go after them.

The only way home defence works is if the gun is readily available and accessible.

Which some people do.

These are the people who usualy end up attending thier own children's funerals.

Protecting your family from your firearms generaly makes it useles for protecting your family.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Guns for show, knives for a pro..

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Lets ban dogs. I bet they kill and injure more people in the UK than guns do.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Lets ban cars for the same reason.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

However, lets not ban cigarettes.. No, they make rich people richer!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Shall we ban fatty foods, surely they kill? But heart attacks don't sell newspapers... Lets leave them be shall we?

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

I've said already, it's only fair if every man, woman and child in the country is given a gun.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

You're right, drastic need for population control.

Too Many Puppies..

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By *adyboy-DaddyCouple over a year ago

Andover

"Lets ban cars for the same reason."

Most of the people I know don't use a gun every day to get to work though!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I've said already, it's only fair if every man, woman and child in the country is given a gun.

I do love a collection.

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

"I've said already, it's only fair if every man, woman and child in the country is given a gun.

I do love a collection."

Equality of opportunity to accidentally kills someone - that's all I'm asking

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By *arksidesubCouple over a year ago

not far from you..

"Guns for show, knives for a pro..

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By *adeDragonMan over a year ago

Guildford

"Oh and concealed and open Cary of hand guns is legal in................northern ireland

Where many of the signatures of the US constitution came from, they had a deep colonial gun culture that was transplanted.

As an American living in the UK I really like not worrying about nutters with guns civilian and police. The murder rate in London is one tenth that of New York, enough said

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Lets ban cars for the same reason."

So why ban RPGs, semtex and claymore mines?

Why shouldnt i be alowed to by a MRL if i can afford it.

Stop that next village over getting uppity

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By *arksidesubCouple over a year ago

not far from you..

Guns don't kill people People kill people!..

Guns make it easier for any DIPSHIT to do it though!

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By *its_n_piecesCouple over a year ago

just shoot all the bellends who want to own guns .... that'll sort it

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I've said already, it's only fair if every man, woman and child in the country is given a gun.

I do love a collection.

Equality of opportunity to accidentally kills someone - that's all I'm asking"

Its a good argument. Could a plane be high jacked if everyone was packing?

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By *its_n_piecesCouple over a year ago

"I've said already, it's only fair if every man, woman and child in the country is given a gun.

I do love a collection.

Equality of opportunity to accidentally kills someone - that's all I'm asking

Its a good argument. Could a plane be high jacked if everyone was packing?"

the amount of air-rage incidents these days i'd be surprised if many planes touched down with anyone left alive onboard

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I've said already, it's only fair if every man, woman and child in the country is given a gun.

I do love a collection.

Equality of opportunity to accidentally kills someone - that's all I'm asking

Its a good argument. Could a plane be high jacked if everyone was packing?

the amount of air-rage incidents these days i'd be surprised if many planes touched down with anyone left alive onboard"

So no alcohol and everyone armed to the teeth.

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By *its_n_piecesCouple over a year ago

"I've said already, it's only fair if every man, woman and child in the country is given a gun.

I do love a collection.

Equality of opportunity to accidentally kills someone - that's all I'm asking

Its a good argument. Could a plane be high jacked if everyone was packing?

the amount of air-rage incidents these days i'd be surprised if many planes touched down with anyone left alive onboard

So no alcohol and everyone armed to the teeth.

no ... that would be boring ..... make smoking crack compulsary during the fight and give everyone a cheese wire

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By *eovilcouple76Couple over a year ago

yeovil

No good reason for handguns is there not?? Explain that to all the people who used to target shoot with theirs before the ludicrous ban.

What, you mean people like me?

The ban was pure common sense. Ludicrous?

What planet are you on?"

Common sense? Oh that's right because the amount of gun crime involving hand guns has been _educed to zero since the licenced pistols were removed from circulation. Wake up you idiot.

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By *artytwoCouple over a year ago

Wolverhampton

Everyone should go to a gun club and shoot a BIG gun so they know what the fuck they are talking about.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

No good reason for handguns is there not?? Explain that to all the people who used to target shoot with theirs before the ludicrous ban.

What, you mean people like me?

The ban was pure common sense. Ludicrous?

What planet are you on?

Common sense? Oh that's right because the amount of gun crime involving hand guns has been _educed to zero since the licenced pistols were removed from circulation. Wake up you idiot. "

Eh Hello;

I take it from that comment you are unaware it is still legal to own a handgun in the UK including semi automatics

The trouble with this thread is that most comments are from people who have never handled a firearm and have no idea of the involvement requi_ed through ownership or legal paperwork

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

So what exactly makes a shotgun safe enough for a public full of nutters and weirdos???

It's poor capacity to reload quickly and it's ineffective ability to kill someone at longer range.

Obviousley a nutter with a shotgun could still kill someone but there are a lot of people with a legitimate need for one so I guess it's all about what is reasonably practicable. "

What about a single slug semi auto shotgun which can be bought and owned under a section one firearm certificate

there are many at one of the clubs I shoot at for practical shotgun where you run an assault course shooting steel plates same as we used to do with semi auto hand guns

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If you have a penchant for guns you can have a shotgun and take up clay shooting.

There's no good reason for a member of the public to have handguns and assault rifles.

Yeah cause no one has ever been killed by a shotgun before have they???

No good reason for handguns is there not?? Explain that to all the people who used to target shoot with theirs before the ludicrous ban. "

????

I still target shoot with hand guns, I guess most who comment here do not know you can still legally own a hand gun in the UK

admittedly you cannot own a large calibre semi auto like the old days such as the browning, glock or colt.45 gold cup (which I had) but you can still own .22 semi autos and 6 shot larger calibres.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If you have a penchant for guns you can have a shotgun and take up clay shooting.

There's no good reason for a member of the public to have handguns and assault rifles.

Yeah cause no one has ever been killed by a shotgun before have they???

No good reason for handguns is there not?? Explain that to all the people who used to target shoot with theirs before the ludicrous ban.

????

I still target shoot with hand guns, I guess most who comment here do not know you can still legally own a hand gun in the UK

admittedly you cannot own a large calibre semi auto like the old days such as the browning, glock or colt.45 gold cup (which I had) but you can still own .22 semi autos and 6 shot larger calibres. "

I think he means practical reasons.

Shotguns and rifles can be used for pest control and hunting.

Where as the likes of glocks, berretas, colts etc are pretty much only designed for killing humans.

.22 etc yeah probbaly squeak by on ratting (get it squeak?)

Target shooting is a bit iffy to base reasonable use on because you could say you target shoot with a a full auto m16A1 etc if you wanted to.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

So what exactly makes a shotgun safe enough for a public full of nutters and weirdos???

It's poor capacity to reload quickly and it's ineffective ability to kill someone at longer range.

Obviousley a nutter with a shotgun could still kill someone but there are a lot of people with a legitimate need for one so I guess it's all about what is reasonably practicable.

What about a single slug semi auto shotgun which can be bought and owned under a section one firearm certificate

there are many at one of the clubs I shoot at for practical shotgun where you run an assault course shooting steel plates same as we used to do with semi auto hand guns"

4 shot max limit on the mags/tubes for shotties in this country isnt it?

And again length. Its hsrd to concel a shotgun on your way to work

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"i think we have a pretty good balance as we are.

If you have a penchant for guns you can have a shotgun and take up clay shooting.

There's no good reason for a member of the public to have handguns and assault rifles.

. "

You are going to struggle to get a shotgun to shoot 1000 yards which kind of takes you out of the game if you want to target shoot in the Olympics

Many farmers still legally own handguns for putting down livestock, I know of two at one of the clubs I shoot at

We actually need more "members of the public" in Scotland to both target shoot and cull deer

The deer population is Scotland is hugely over run which is destroying forestry plantations and causing serious road crashes and a few fatalities especially on the A9

So; I disagree, there are indeed many good reasons for members of the public to own both hand guns and rifles

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

No good reason for handguns is there not?? Explain that to all the people who used to target shoot with theirs before the ludicrous ban.

What, you mean people like me?

The ban was pure common sense. Ludicrous?

What planet are you on?

Common sense? Oh that's right because the amount of gun crime involving hand guns has been _educed to zero since the licenced pistols were removed from circulation. Wake up you idiot. "

Genuine question as i really dont know the answer to this.

The ban was mainly brought in in reaponse to dunblane iirc.

Since then have we had a mass/school shootibg incident?

America has had several thousand of active shooter incidents since dunblane by comparison

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Despite what they think Americans do not rule the world we copy them too much already leave our gun laws as they are

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"i think we have a pretty good balance as we are.

If you have a penchant for guns you can have a shotgun and take up clay shooting.

There's no good reason for a member of the public to have handguns and assault rifles.

You are going to struggle to get a shotgun to shoot 1000 yards which kind of takes you out of the game if you want to target shoot in the Olympics

Many farmers still legally own handguns for putting down livestock, I know of two at one of the clubs I shoot at

We actually need more "members of the public" in Scotland to both target shoot and cull deer

The deer population is Scotland is hugely over run which is destroying forestry plantations and causing serious road crashes and a few fatalities especially on the A9

So; I disagree, there are indeed many good reasons for members of the public to own both hand guns and rifles"

He said assult rifles, you arent going to be taking on 1000 yard shots with an assult rifle either

Bolt is perfectly good for hunting. (I'd quite like a nice rifle tbh but i think with my past theres no chance of me ever getting a license)

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Dunblane was,in part, the fault of masons, the old boys brigade,giving a gun to someone that shouldn't have had one.

I'm too young to duly remember this but why did they let him have a gun?

The story now is that he only kept the licence because the senior officer overruled the firearms Sargent because of Masonic links.

As mush as I dislike the man your comments above are not specifically true, he did shot regular at more than one club especially with practical handgun and in these days you could be invited to other clubs to shoot as a guest without being a member and he has shot at many Fife clubs in this way for practical hand gun

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

As much

appologies