FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Marriage. Is it just a piece of paper ?
Marriage. Is it just a piece of paper ?
Jump to: Newest in thread
![](https://fabs-as.fabswingers.com/images/default.jpg) |
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
I hear this comment branded about quite a lot.
In my opinion I think it is a very flippant statement as marriage means so much more to us than a piece of paper. I also believe it makes a difference to our relationship. I love being married.
I appreciate we all have different ideals/views and approaches though so am interested on other peoples opinions.
What are your thoughts on this ?
Discuss
Mrs x |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
![](https://fabs-as.fabswingers.com/images/default.jpg) |
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
A wise person told me that many people think marriage comes with flowers all gift wrapped and beautiful but really it's like getting your kit on the first day of basic training. You've got to work at it constantly but if you do it right the rewards are insurmountable. X |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
marriage these days doesn't mean what it used to, I met a man a while back who told me he had just got married a week ago only he was going to try talking his wife into meeting people on here. Then you get people who get married then split up a year later or think its ok to cheat on their partners and I have met quite a few like that.
why bother getting married or staying married. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
![](https://fabs-as.fabswingers.com/images/default.jpg) |
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I think if people feel it adds something to their relationship it's right for them.... but I see no merit in any claims that a similar level of commitment can't be achieved in none married relationships..... ![](/icons/s/2/halo.gif) |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
![](https://fabs-as.fabswingers.com/images/default.jpg) |
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I hear this comment branded about quite a lot.
In my opinion I think it is a very flippant statement as marriage means so much more to us than a piece of paper. I also believe it makes a difference to our relationship. I love being married.
I appreciate we all have different ideals/views and approaches though so am interested on other peoples opinions.
What are your thoughts on this ?
Discuss
Mrs x"
Many people make the same commitments to each other without being married. So I'd say,it's just a piece of paper. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Marriage licence is a paper
Marriage is different for everyone.
For us it's a life long commitment to love and care for eachother. To share the ups and lows in life. To be best friends.
Love my hubby so much I can't put it in words. I just showed every day
MrsSB ![](/icons/s/2/cute.gif) |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
![](https://fabs-as.fabswingers.com/images/default.jpg) |
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I think if people feel it adds something to their relationship it's right for them.... but I see no merit in any claims that a similar level of commitment can't be achieved in none married relationships..... "
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
![](https://fabs-as.fabswingers.com/images/default.jpg) |
By *osieWoman
over a year ago
Wembley |
"I hear this comment branded about quite a lot.
In my opinion I think it is a very flippant statement as marriage means so much more to us than a piece of paper. I also believe it makes a difference to our relationship. I love being married.
I appreciate we all have different ideals/views and approaches though so am interested on other peoples opinions.
What are your thoughts on this ?
Discuss
Mrs x"
It is know to protect against STIs better than any condom can |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
![](https://fabs-as.fabswingers.com/images/default.jpg) |
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Im not married and never have been.. i just dont understand why the relationship changes suddenly because you have signed a document?
Surely that level of love and commitment has to be there before you sign it. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
It means nothing to me.
There is nothing I couldn't get, give, achieve etc in being married that I couldn't not being married other than some minor financial benefits.
I've had clothes last longer than some of my friends marriages. ![](/icons/s/confused.gif) |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
![](https://fabs-as.fabswingers.com/images/default.jpg) |
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I hear this comment branded about quite a lot.
In my opinion I think it is a very flippant statement as marriage means so much more to us than a piece of paper. I also believe it makes a difference to our relationship. I love being married.
I appreciate we all have different ideals/views and approaches though so am interested on other peoples opinions.
What are your thoughts on this ?
Discuss
Mrs x
Many people make the same commitments to each other without being married. So I'd say,it's just a piece of paper."
This |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
![](https://fabs-as.fabswingers.com/images/default.jpg) |
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Hi guys,
We were married on Friday (we've spend the rest of the weekend partying in Brighton).
You can think marriage is outdated and redundant if you like, but you should have seen what it meant to us and our guests who shared the day with us.
If you think it's a piece of paper, then it's probably just not for you. For us, it's the best feeling in the world. We couldn't be happier to legally and formally declare our commitment to each other's lives.
Aside from the legal implications of getting married, I think it's pretty cool to wear this ring, reminding myself and everyone else that I've chosen someone completely. And she's chosen me.
Mr
![](/icons/s/cool.gif) |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
![](https://fabs-as.fabswingers.com/images/default.jpg) |
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Hi guys,
We were married on Friday (we've spend the rest of the weekend partying in Brighton).
You can think marriage is outdated and redundant if you like, but you should have seen what it meant to us and our guests who shared the day with us.
If you think it's a piece of paper, then it's probably just not for you. For us, it's the best feeling in the world. We couldn't be happier to legally and formally declare our commitment to each other's lives.
Aside from the legal implications of getting married, I think it's pretty cool to wear this ring, reminding myself and everyone else that I've chosen someone completely. And she's chosen me.
Mr
"
Awww thats sweet. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
![](https://fabs-as.fabswingers.com/images/default.jpg) |
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Hi guys,
We were married on Friday (we've spend the rest of the weekend partying in Brighton).
You can think marriage is outdated and redundant if you like, but you should have seen what it meant to us and our guests who shared the day with us.
If you think it's a piece of paper, then it's probably just not for you. For us, it's the best feeling in the world. We couldn't be happier to legally and formally declare our commitment to each other's lives.
Aside from the legal implications of getting married, I think it's pretty cool to wear this ring, reminding myself and everyone else that I've chosen someone completely. And she's chosen me.
Mr
"
Many Congratulations
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
![](https://fabs-as.fabswingers.com/images/default.jpg) |
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Never again it's simply a bloody expensive thing to get out of. Does marriage change you as a couple. No unless it's the start of the end.
I'd happily have a boyfriend who lived in his own house for the rest of our lives |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Im not married and never have been.. i just dont understand why the relationship changes suddenly because you have signed a document?
Surely that level of love and commitment has to be there before you sign it."
Exactly so. Marriage is mostly a public declaration of that love and commitment. I have no argument with that ![](/icons/s/2/cute.gif) |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
We've been married 28 years coming up to 29 and have been together 35 years. I would say that to "us" marriage is more than a piece of paper, this sounds odd even to me but I think both of us see our marriage as a separate entity to us two as individuals that we need to care for. This doesn't mean that you can't view a relationship in exactly the same way if you're not married of course, it's just what's been proven to work for us. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Hi guys,
We were married on Friday (we've spend the rest of the weekend partying in Brighton).
You can think marriage is outdated and redundant if you like, but you should have seen what it meant to us and our guests who shared the day with us.
If you think it's a piece of paper, then it's probably just not for you. For us, it's the best feeling in the world. We couldn't be happier to legally and formally declare our commitment to each other's lives.
Aside from the legal implications of getting married, I think it's pretty cool to wear this ring, reminding myself and everyone else that I've chosen someone completely. And she's chosen me.
Mr
"
People think of the letter of the law but it is the spirit of the law that matters. I wish you a long and happy marriage ![](/icons/s/biggrin.gif) |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
![](https://fabs-as.fabswingers.com/images/default.jpg) |
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
You can have the partys, holidays, wear rings...
You can still love each other and be together for the rest of your lives if your lucky enough
I just see it as a way of binding people together (who SHOULD things goes tits up) no longer want to be together.. it gets messy. Id rather just be able to have the freedom to walk away with some kind of dignity in tact..
No one can foresee the future, and if it lasts then amazing.. but sadly a lot of cases dont. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"You can have the partys, holidays, wear rings...
You can still love each other and be together for the rest of your lives if your lucky enough
I just see it as a way of binding people together (who SHOULD things goes tits up) no longer want to be together.. it gets messy. Id rather just be able to have the freedom to walk away with some kind of dignity in tact..
No one can foresee the future, and if it lasts then amazing.. but sadly a lot of cases dont. "
That may be true, but equally the contract and the lack of ease of walking away will make some couples dig deep and get through tough times which relationships often have.
But yes commitment is the essence of marriage IMO, not a contract. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
![](https://fabs-as.fabswingers.com/images/default.jpg) |
By *helbeeCouple
over a year ago
Nuneaton |
I was married an now divorced, i would never marry again, to me marriage is a life sentence, i lost my idenity, my independence. An i felt trapped.
Marriage is complicated when you split up an want a divorce you have to go through solicitors, courts
no thanks not going there again
Im much hapier not being married an single an i have freedom, independence
An no ties |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
![](https://fabs-as.fabswingers.com/images/default.jpg) |
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
That may be true, but equally the contract and the lack of ease of walking away will make some couples dig deep and get through tough times which relationships often have.
But yes commitment is the essence of marriage IMO, not a contract. "
Believe if something is worth fighting for then it should be faught for.. however if you are having hardships and it comes to that point of a realtionship then i would question would things ever truly be roses and sunshine once again
Im not talking mini domestic issues over 'whats for dinner' btw.. lol
I feel its healthy to have a lil bit of conflict |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
![](https://fabs-as.fabswingers.com/images/default.jpg) |
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Marriage licence is a paper
Marriage is different for everyone.
For us it's a life long commitment to love and care for eachother. To share the ups and lows in life. To be best friends.
Love my hubby so much I can't put it in words. I just showed every day
MrsSB "
Exactly this for us too
Sabrina ![](/icons/s/2/cute.gif) |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
![](https://fabs-as.fabswingers.com/images/default.jpg) |
By *yldstyleWoman
over a year ago
A world of my own |
I got married at 16. It wasn't the day of my dreams and he wasn't the man of them either. It just seemed like the right thing to do. I cried all the way through the ceremony. I knew it was a mistake. As such our very unhappy marriage was just a bit of paper for me and I gave it very little value. When I got divorced at 25 I never thought 8 years on I'd still be single and looking for 'the one'
If I ever find him I may not get the wedding or the marriage but I will make promises and mean them. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I hear this comment branded about quite a lot.
In my opinion I think it is a very flippant statement as marriage means so much more to us than a piece of paper. I also believe it makes a difference to our relationship. I love being married.
I appreciate we all have different ideals/views and approaches though so am interested on other peoples opinions.
What are your thoughts on this ?
Discuss
Mrs x"
(I) Always think it's something those that don't want to commit/haven't found "the" one/prepared to settle for now say to make their situation acceptable to them.
I loved being married. For me the fact the person I loved felt the same and wanted to make it "official" meant the world to me.
It was so much more than a piece of paper. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
![](https://fabs-as.fabswingers.com/images/default.jpg) |
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I can honestly say it made no difference to our relationship whatsoever. We have always had a strong relationship....the only reason we got married is because we had kids and it makes things easier.....oh and because my maiden name was truly awful.
I think we'd be exactly the same if we didn't get married to be honest. Don't get me wrong, i love being married and there is that extra level of commitment, but i only really see marriage as the formality. It's the relationship that means something not the marriage. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"without sounding morbid it gives security of decision making and inheritance to the remaining spouse in the event of death of one of the couple.
it often makes your car insurance cheaper too."
My other half gets cheaper car insurance with me on his policy and we aren't married!
If anything were to happen to me my other half would be up shits Creek as the house, everything is in my name, and my children and ex-husband wouldn't hang around getting him out. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Hi guys,
We were married on Friday (we've spend the rest of the weekend partying in Brighton).
You can think marriage is outdated and redundant if you like, but you should have seen what it meant to us and our guests who shared the day with us.
If you think it's a piece of paper, then it's probably just not for you. For us, it's the best feeling in the world. We couldn't be happier to legally and formally declare our commitment to each other's lives.
Aside from the legal implications of getting married, I think it's pretty cool to wear this ring, reminding myself and everyone else that I've chosen someone completely. And she's chosen me.
Mr
"
Pretty much how I view marriage. Congratulations to you both. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"You can have the partys, holidays, wear rings...
You can still love each other and be together for the rest of your lives if your lucky enough
I just see it as a way of binding people together (who SHOULD things goes tits up) no longer want to be together.. it gets messy. Id rather just be able to have the freedom to walk away with some kind of dignity in tact..
No one can foresee the future, and if it lasts then amazing.. but sadly a lot of cases dont. "
Pretty naive view if you think you can have a house, kids, joint finances and just "walk away" with dignity if you're not married.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"My other half gets cheaper car insurance with me on his policy and we aren't married!
If anything were to happen to me my other half would be up shits Creek as the house, everything is in my name, and my children and ex-husband wouldn't hang around getting him out."
there you go |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I was married an now divorced, i would never marry again, to me marriage is a life sentence, i lost my idenity, my independence. An i felt trapped.
Marriage is complicated when you split up an want a divorce you have to go through solicitors, courts
no thanks not going there again
Im much hapier not being married an single an i have freedom, independence
An no ties "
My husband didn't want a divorce so I waited the five years and divorced him. Cost me £350, no solicitors.
During that time he gave me £500 a month for the kids, had them half the time, we both attended parents evenings, graduations etc.
We were "lucky" in that our love for our children and the realisation it was a "no fault" split (our son died and the pain drove us apart, enabled us to move on.
As I said we were "lucky" I'm aware others have differing experiences. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I like wedding cake....
We had a chocolate one and my dad dropped it on the floor
Awwwww bless him.... "
Lol, it was fine we giggled in the pantry them called the dog in to eat the evidence, put the remaining cake back on the stand and walked away all innocent ![](/icons/s/mrgreen.gif) |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
If only it were just a piece of paper, I am instigating divorce after nearly 30yrs. I cannot wait to be single. My marraige certificate turned my ex into a 1950's husband. I will never do it again. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
![](https://fabs-as.fabswingers.com/images/default.jpg) |
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
It seems marriage has become outdated. I for one, don't believe ,it's just a piece of paper.
I'm going to get slated. But,hey on here it's the norm. I don't believe in people living together. But that's just my opinion. Each to their own. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
![](https://fabs-as.fabswingers.com/images/default.jpg) |
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Hi guys,
We were married on Friday (we've spend the rest of the weekend partying in Brighton).
You can think marriage is outdated and redundant if you like, but you should have seen what it meant to us and our guests who shared the day with us.
If you think it's a piece of paper, then it's probably just not for you. For us, it's the best feeling in the world. We couldn't be happier to legally and formally declare our commitment to each other's lives.
Aside from the legal implications of getting married, I think it's pretty cool to wear this ring, reminding myself and everyone else that I've chosen someone completely. And she's chosen me.
Mr
"
Congratulations to you both ![](/icons/thumb_up.png) |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Marriage is a legally binding contract and requires documentation.
A couples love of one another and respect of each other have nothing to do with the law.
Marriage was at one time simple ownership and lineage and to some extent it remains that way today.
A relationship is something entirely different. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I hear this comment branded about quite a lot.
In my opinion I think it is a very flippant statement as marriage means so much more to us than a piece of paper. I also believe it makes a difference to our relationship. I love being married.
I appreciate we all have different ideals/views and approaches though so am interested on other peoples opinions.
What are your thoughts on this ?
Discuss
Mrs x"
I used to think the same until I got divorced it is just a piece of paper as is the divorce papers, its what happens inbetween that matters not the pieces of paper. ![](/icons/s/wink.gif) |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
I will be changing my surname when my passport runs out because I want to have the same surname as my kids.
I would rather just do this by deed poll without the marriage as I don't believe it would add anything to our relationship - neither of us are religious or believe we need to do it.
We MAY, however, consider it in future but it would only be for tax/legal benefits though. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
![](https://fabs-as.fabswingers.com/images/default.jpg) |
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I think if people feel it adds something to their relationship it's right for them.... but I see no merit in any claims that a similar level of commitment can't be achieved in none married relationships.....
"
This ![](/icons/thumb_up.png) |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
We don't own the piece of paper but firmly consider ourselves married we've been together 10 years, had children (not that this is a requirement) and very much love one another.
It would nice to be officially married but it won't make me love my wife more than I already do. So to answer the question yes to me it is just a piece of paper.
Mr. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Sadly I feel that those who think it is 'just a piece of paper' are more likely to tear it up when the going gets rough. Those who see it as a declaration of commitment, a promise, or a contract are more likely to work through their problems and build a stronger relationship as a result.
That's my view.
Mr ddc |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Sadly I feel that those who think it is 'just a piece of paper' are more likely to tear it up when the going gets rough. Those who see it as a declaration of commitment, a promise, or a contract are more likely to work through their problems and build a stronger relationship as a result.
That's my view.
Mr ddc"
A view I share. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
![](https://fabs-as.fabswingers.com/images/default.jpg) |
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Sadly I feel that those who think it is 'just a piece of paper' are more likely to tear it up when the going gets rough. Those who see it as a declaration of commitment, a promise, or a contract are more likely to work through their problems and build a stronger relationship as a result.
That's my view.
Mr ddc"
I think this view a bit odd. We've been through many a rough patch including some things that many declare on here to be instant break up stuff and never being able to trust the other person.....it wasn't the piece of paper keeping us together, trust me. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
![](https://fabs-as.fabswingers.com/images/default.jpg) |
By *osieWoman
over a year ago
Wembley |
"Sadly I feel that those who think it is 'just a piece of paper' are more likely to tear it up when the going gets rough. Those who see it as a declaration of commitment, a promise, or a contract are more likely to work through their problems and build a stronger relationship as a result.
That's my view.
Mr ddc"
It is a super-condom. Works at several levels. Protects against all known STIs and when at 'peak performance' stops sex right in its tracks between the wife and husband They then sleep in the 'married position' (facing away from each other) and go looking for sex with strangers ![](/icons/s/mrgreen.gif) |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Sadly I feel that those who think it is 'just a piece of paper' are more likely to tear it up when the going gets rough. Those who see it as a declaration of commitment, a promise, or a contract are more likely to work through their problems and build a stronger relationship as a result.
That's my view.
Mr ddc
I think this view a bit odd. We've been through many a rough patch including some things that many declare on here to be instant break up stuff and never being able to trust the other person.....it wasn't the piece of paper keeping us together, trust me."
In which case it isn't just a 'piece of paper' to you, which was kinda my point. You see your marriage as a commitment, something worth working for, something to be treasured.
(A fact that often comes across on the forums from things you both say to/about each other ) |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
![](https://fabs-as.fabswingers.com/images/default.jpg) |
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Sadly I feel that those who think it is 'just a piece of paper' are more likely to tear it up when the going gets rough. Those who see it as a declaration of commitment, a promise, or a contract are more likely to work through their problems and build a stronger relationship as a result.
That's my view.
Mr ddc
I think this view a bit odd. We've been through many a rough patch including some things that many declare on here to be instant break up stuff and never being able to trust the other person.....it wasn't the piece of paper keeping us together, trust me.
In which case it isn't just a 'piece of paper' to you, which was kinda my point. You see your marriage as a commitment, something worth working for, something to be treasured.
(A fact that often comes across on the forums from things you both say to/about each other )"
I think my point is that the marriage bit on our part was purely done because legally its better because we have kids. Otherwise we wouldn't have bothered...our commitment is to the relationship and each other. The marriage is secondary.
And thanks for the nice comments ![](/icons/s/biggrin.gif) |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
![](https://fabs-as.fabswingers.com/images/default.jpg) |
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Sadly I feel that those who think it is 'just a piece of paper' are more likely to tear it up when the going gets rough. Those who see it as a declaration of commitment, a promise, or a contract are more likely to work through their problems and build a stronger relationship as a result.
That's my view.
Mr ddc
I think this view a bit odd. We've been through many a rough patch including some things that many declare on here to be instant break up stuff and never being able to trust the other person.....it wasn't the piece of paper keeping us together, trust me.
In which case it isn't just a 'piece of paper' to you, which was kinda my point. You see your marriage as a commitment, something worth working for, something to be treasured.
(A fact that often comes across on the forums from things you both say to/about each other )
I think my point is that the marriage bit on our part was purely done because legally its better because we have kids. Otherwise we wouldn't have bothered...our commitment is to the relationship and each other. The marriage is secondary.
And thanks for the nice comments "
I didn't realise you and Clem were married, I thought you were his Parole Officer ![](/icons/s/mrgreen.gif) |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
I made more flipping commitments to jay the day we decided to become a couple than i ever did the day i got married. Mostly because they werent relavant to my marriage. Over 10 years later they are starting to become more relevant and im more than happy. I didnt go into our relationship lightly |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
![](https://fabs-as.fabswingers.com/images/default.jpg) |
By *ENDAROOSCouple
over a year ago
South West London / Surrey |
"I think if people feel it adds something to their relationship it's right for them.... but I see no merit in any claims that a similar level of commitment can't be achieved in none married relationships..... "
This
Neither of us have any interest in getting married. To us, it is just a piece of paper and sharing of a surname.
We're very happy and content as we are.
It's been 25 years since we first met/ got together later on in the year. That's an achievement to me and something I'm very proud of. Yet some people that we know, say well, it's not the same as if you were married. That annoys to me to be honest.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
![](https://fabs-as.fabswingers.com/images/default.jpg) |
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
It means more to you than...that's to you.
But legally it is just a document that gives you rights under law. And it's the main reason why these contracts exist in the first place.
If you want to change the true meaning of marriage that's fine, and i do think most people have already done this in the first place.
Love shouldn't need a legally binding contract imo, so marriage is just that to me, a piece of paper that can be used under law. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
» Add a new message to this topic