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Internet interceptors.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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These are a group of people ,men& women, who go into Internet chat rooms and pose as teenage children in the hope of catching peadophiles.
The strike up a cover station see where it leads and arrange to meet.
They then confront them on video and then they are arrested.
They fund themselves and have caught quite a few peadophiles. I'm not sure of the conviction rate but the peadophiles are bang to rights with most of them admitting on camera what they were up to.
Is this entrapment ?
If it is should we care ?
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"These are a group of people ,men& women, who go into Internet chat rooms and pose as teenage children in the hope of catching peadophiles.
The strike up a cover station see where it leads and arrange to meet.
They then confront them on video and then they are arrested.
They fund themselves and have caught quite a few peadophiles. I'm not sure of the conviction rate but the peadophiles are bang to rights with most of them admitting on camera what they were up to.
Is this entrapment ?
If it is should we care ?
"
Sorry for the spelling, hope it makes sense. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Don't see why it should matter.
paedophiles are paedophiles so I couldn't really care less.
Anyway if police are actually arresting them, then there must be some sort of substantial evidence and legitimacy behind it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I think I saw a documentary on that. Can't remember their name but it was something hunters.
I agree with the above post. Peados will be peados. They know what they are getting into and the risks along with it too.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Theres various groups been doing it for years now, I can't remember the group I read about years ago something hunter but they seemed to be following the law and had a terrific conviction rate.
Personally I can't see a problem with it providing they follow official guide lines |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Vigilante Hunters. If this were a clean operation I wouldn't have a problem with it, but it isn't and has been shown to ruin 'innocent' people's lives as well as catch paedophiles. This approach of vigilante justice reminds me of modern day version of the 'Burning Times'.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The police do it too, so I assume they're aware that there may be others.
Might be embarrassing if they end up trapping each other though.  "
Ha!
Can you imagine their reaction?
"oh...it's you?" |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Its a difficult one.
As long as they don't pressure the possible peadophile into doing it when he wouldn't normally do so you're safe from entrapment.
The biggest issue for me is when its posted online before they go to trial. Then it infringes on their right to a fair trial is jurors see it on facebook ect.
No matter your view on people like that everyone deserves a fair trial
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I'm against vigilantes.
Some might deceive swingers, gay/bi people and transgender folk - there's always someone who takes offence at others.
Fund the police and target their activities. No to busy bodies creating victimless 'crime'. A |
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They were on 24 hours in police custody about two weeks ago, it was quite distressing to listen to some of the things the police had to watch to gain evidence against some of the perpetrators,I have to say it really bothered me, and has played on my mind a lot, I wish I hadn't heard what they had to say, especially as the police themselves explained they couldn't do anything about the things they were talking about, which makes you realise you couldn't either, and that's really tough  in terms of what the group are doing, well the police accepted it, certain things they were not happy about but only because it could affect a trial, and the cps never rejected any of the cases, so i guess the entrapment side wasn't upheld, although this was mentioned at one point. I think personally if it was happening close to you, then you would be relieved that a prosecution had been upheld regardless of how the prosecution came about  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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The reason I ask is someone has just been caught very local to us.
He works in the local school, not a teacher.
It's obviously a massive shock, we know lots of children at this school.
We watched the video and he's definitely guilty.
My thoughts at the moment are without the Internet interceptors he may of gone on to do something horrendous. I'm sure we'll agree that it's better to catch someone before something happens. |
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These sort of moral crusades should be outlawed imo. It's the same driving force that also has resulted in people being beaten up and murdered. Absolutely wrong.
We have official bodies responsible for this. Other people should do no more than lobby their police commissioner, their MP and manage their children's access to the internet. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"These sort of moral crusades should be outlawed imo. It's the same driving force that also has resulted in people being beaten up and murdered. Absolutely wrong.
We have official bodies responsible for this. Other people should do no more than lobby their police commissioner, their MP and manage their children's access to the internet."
I know what you mean and understand your point of view.
But this fella was caught red handed. He was actively looking for teenage girls in chat rooms.
If these people hadn't arranged to meet him a young girl could have.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"These sort of moral crusades should be outlawed imo. It's the same driving force that also has resulted in people being beaten up and murdered. Absolutely wrong.
We have official bodies responsible for this. Other people should do no more than lobby their police commissioner, their MP and manage their children's access to the internet.
I know what you mean and understand your point of view.
But this fella was caught red handed. He was actively looking for teenage girls in chat rooms.
If these people hadn't arranged to meet him a young girl could have.
"
exactly my thought. It's great that we have these authorities, but if he hadn't been caught, he may have caused harm to these young girls. I'm sure her parents would agree too. |
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It's a fine line, but in the instances I have seen, they've made it clear that they (their online personae) are under-age and the paedo still wants to meet them. They do not encourage the paedo to meet them, they wait for the paedo to initiate it. Otherwise, it could be construed as entrapment. They don't go round and beat them up, they contact the authorities with their evidence and invite them to arrest the perps at the meeting.
As long as they stay within the law, I'm fine with it and think it's a good thing that they're doing. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's a fine line, but in the instances I have seen, they've made it clear that they (their online personae) are under-age and the paedo still wants to meet them. They do not encourage the paedo to meet them, they wait for the paedo to initiate it. Otherwise, it could be construed as entrapment. They don't go round and beat them up, they contact the authorities with their evidence and invite them to arrest the perps at the meeting.
As long as they stay within the law, I'm fine with it and think it's a good thing that they're doing."
The reported cases are a mixture. One guy was only told by text that the girl was 15 while he was waiting for her. He had gone to the meeting believing she was 18. He then left and was accosted by the vigilante with a camera as he left the meeting place. The video was then posted online, with his mobile phone number. He received death threats galore and all kinds of abuse. Lost his home, job etc....but was apparently innocent. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I know the police and CPS have huge concerns not only about entrapment but also the fact that the vigilantes share so much on line that they prejudice the chance of a fair trail.
The thing that has also struck me during the 2 documentaries I've seen is that the vigilantes seem to have lots of issues and also seem to enjoy the notoriety that results in what they do.
That said I have zero sympathy for those that they snare. If I was in a chat room and someone said they were uderage I'd be reporting them not engaging with them |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I think we should leave policing to the police. We can of course be witnesses to crimes as such we are duty bound to inform the relative authorities.
However depending on the nature of the chatroom and the method of entrapment I am concerned that it could be classed as incitement to commit a crime. With every crime we have two key variables; motive and opportunity. Presenting potential pedophiles with opportunity when their abhorrent thoughts may have just remained motive could be classed as entrapment and incitement and they could get away on a technicality.
Amateur attempts to trap these criminals will not be as thorough as police attempts; where the police will have to detail every stage of the activity; less holes for a defence lawyer to punch through.
Furthermore as detailed above; how far will these amateurs go to prove someone is a pedophile? Saying someone is 18 in the chatroom and then texting 5 minutes before to say "actually I am 15" is a horrific thing to do to someone, if they then say "whoa 15, no thanks" but still get accused of being a pedophile.
Ultimately; the police try to safeguard the public and whilst I am sure many pedophiles have been captured by amateur groups; how many people have been falsely accused and had their lives ruined by these amateurs?
Whilst the thought of pedophiles running amok on the Internet, unchecked due to funding pressures on police; I think that some of the safeguards for Internet security should begin in the child's home; by parents and also the providers of these services. With ultimate responsibility for catching and punishing perpetrators with the police.
If I had a child; I wouldn't allow them a laptop in their room and I would make it clear that the phone I may give them remains MY property and I would check it regularly. Ultimately the responsibility for what our children experience in this life can beam aged to a greater extent by us as parents.
Long-winded eh? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I think we should leave policing to the police. We can of course be witnesses to crimes as such we are duty bound to inform the relative authorities.
However depending on the nature of the chatroom and the method of entrapment I am concerned that it could be classed as incitement to commit a crime. With every crime we have two key variables; motive and opportunity. Presenting potential pedophiles with opportunity when their abhorrent thoughts may have just remained motive could be classed as entrapment and incitement and they could get away on a technicality.
Amateur attempts to trap these criminals will not be as thorough as police attempts; where the police will have to detail every stage of the activity; less holes for a defence lawyer to punch through.
Furthermore as detailed above; how far will these amateurs go to prove someone is a pedophile? Saying someone is 18 in the chatroom and then texting 5 minutes before to say "actually I am 15" is a horrific thing to do to someone, if they then say "whoa 15, no thanks" but still get accused of being a pedophile.
Ultimately; the police try to safeguard the public and whilst I am sure many pedophiles have been captured by amateur groups; how many people have been falsely accused and had their lives ruined by these amateurs?
Whilst the thought of pedophiles running amok on the Internet, unchecked due to funding pressures on police; I think that some of the safeguards for Internet security should begin in the child's home; by parents and also the providers of these services. With ultimate responsibility for catching and punishing perpetrators with the police.
If I had a child; I wouldn't allow them a laptop in their room and I would make it clear that the phone I may give them remains MY property and I would check it regularly. Ultimately the responsibility for what our children experience in this life can beam aged to a greater extent by us as parents.
Long-winded eh? "
Whilst I agree with everything you have said. And I am also weary of the fact that they might be enticing a meet where there might not have been a suggestion of one otherwise.
I am very very torn between the fact that this bloke was caught before he could do any harm, and if he hadn't been caught something awful would have happened.
Who knows he may have a history of this sort of thing , this will all come out in the investigation, but, I don't know.
I'm confused , shocked and angry. |
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