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EU Referendum.. Ordinary people
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"Out is worse. The exit campaign leaders state that all EU people here already can stay. So the same number competing for jobs and resources still. Many businesses will struggle. Some will relocate and others go bust. Total lose for ordinary people. Less tax revenue in the UK will mean services you rely on will be cut even more. EU phone roaming charges are scrapped next year but we will face huge fees again instead. " A new immigrant arrives in UK every 4 seconds and that is acceptable you think! what is the division line between an ordinary person and one that can manage either way no problem? . | |||
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"Out is worse. The exit campaign leaders state that all EU people here already can stay. So the same number competing for jobs and resources still. Many businesses will struggle. Some will relocate and others go bust. Total lose for ordinary people. Less tax revenue in the UK will mean services you rely on will be cut even more. EU phone roaming charges are scrapped next year but we will face huge fees again instead. " Out is best. The EU is looking to expand to include poorer and poorer countries so that the large corporations in the richer countries have a larger pool of cheap available labour. Most smaller businesses seem to be in favour of out. Tax revenues will increase because wages will rise and less will be paid out in tax credits. When roaming charges are reduced domestic calls will rise to cover the shortfall anyway | |||
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"Will being either in or out be better for the ordinary working class? It ssems to me that either way, it's going to be the ordinary lower wage gtoups that will be hit " I'd agree with your last statement. | |||
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"Staying in EU is worse. Yes EU people already here can stay as they came here legally so that is only right, but going onwards from June 23rd, when we leave we can control our borders and immigration much better to a sensible level so we can plan for future infrastructure spending properly. This will benefit ordinary working class folk when public services become less strained and start to improve. Small business and entrepreneurs will benefit when they can cut costs and EU red tape. May result in more jobs being created so a total win for ordinary people. More tax revenue in the UK when we make an instant saving of billions on our EU membership fee. That money can be redirected into the Nhs, hospitals, GP surgeries, schools and education, new roads, railways and bridges, etc. The EU TTIP deal is also a very real threat to the Nhs. More and better trade links with the rest of the world beyond the borders of the EU where we currently have a trade surplus which is growing each year. In contrast the Euro zone is stagnating and we have a trade deficit with the EU. In general people feel better about their way of life and are happier when they live under a free and democratic system. The EU is fundamentally undemocratic which is why we are seeing a rise in support for anti EU parties at elections all over Europe. Many people all over Europe are not happy with the EU and it is failing them with the ongoing Eurozone crisis, the ongoing migration crisis and high levels of unemployment in many EU countries. " 
Well written, but you are feeding the troll again.  | |||
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"Staying in EU is worse. Yes EU people already here can stay as they came here legally so that is only right, but going onwards from June 23rd, when we leave we can control our borders and immigration much better to a sensible level so we can plan for future infrastructure spending properly. This will benefit ordinary working class folk when public services become less strained and start to improve. Small business and entrepreneurs will benefit when they can cut costs and EU red tape. May result in more jobs being created so a total win for ordinary people. More tax revenue in the UK when we make an instant saving of billions on our EU membership fee. That money can be redirected into the Nhs, hospitals, GP surgeries, schools and education, new roads, railways and bridges, etc. The EU TTIP deal is also a very real threat to the Nhs. More and better trade links with the rest of the world beyond the borders of the EU where we currently have a trade surplus which is growing each year. In contrast the Euro zone is stagnating and we have a trade deficit with the EU. In general people feel better about their way of life and are happier when they live under a free and democratic system. The EU is fundamentally undemocratic which is why we are seeing a rise in support for anti EU parties at elections all over Europe. Many people all over Europe are not happy with the EU and it is failing them with the ongoing Eurozone crisis, the ongoing migration crisis and high levels of unemployment in many EU countries.
Well written, but you are feeding the troll again. "It saves a lot of effort when UKIP trolls agree on something - anyone who reads it knows it should be taken with a huge pinch of salt. | |||
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"Staying in EU is worse. Yes EU people already here can stay as they came here legally so that is only right, but going onwards from June 23rd, when we leave we can control our borders and immigration much better to a sensible level so we can plan for future infrastructure spending properly. This will benefit ordinary working class folk when public services become less strained and start to improve. Small business and entrepreneurs will benefit when they can cut costs and EU red tape. May result in more jobs being created so a total win for ordinary people. More tax revenue in the UK when we make an instant saving of billions on our EU membership fee. That money can be redirected into the Nhs, hospitals, GP surgeries, schools and education, new roads, railways and bridges, etc. The EU TTIP deal is also a very real threat to the Nhs. More and better trade links with the rest of the world beyond the borders of the EU where we currently have a trade surplus which is growing each year. In contrast the Euro zone is stagnating and we have a trade deficit with the EU. In general people feel better about their way of life and are happier when they live under a free and democratic system. The EU is fundamentally undemocratic which is why we are seeing a rise in support for anti EU parties at elections all over Europe. Many people all over Europe are not happy with the EU and it is failing them with the ongoing Eurozone crisis, the ongoing migration crisis and high levels of unemployment in many EU countries.
Well written, but you are feeding the troll again.
It saves a lot of effort when UKIP trolls agree on something - anyone who reads it knows it should be taken with a huge pinch of salt. "That's ok fella, because we take all yours with a shovel full. Sits, watches and smiles | |||
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"Staying in EU is worse. Yes EU people already here can stay as they came here legally so that is only right, but going onwards from June 23rd, when we leave we can control our borders and immigration much better to a sensible level so we can plan for future infrastructure spending properly. This will benefit ordinary working class folk when public services become less strained and start to improve. Small business and entrepreneurs will benefit when they can cut costs and EU red tape. May result in more jobs being created so a total win for ordinary people. More tax revenue in the UK when we make an instant saving of billions on our EU membership fee. That money can be redirected into the Nhs, hospitals, GP surgeries, schools and education, new roads, railways and bridges, etc. The EU TTIP deal is also a very real threat to the Nhs. More and better trade links with the rest of the world beyond the borders of the EU where we currently have a trade surplus which is growing each year. In contrast the Euro zone is stagnating and we have a trade deficit with the EU. In general people feel better about their way of life and are happier when they live under a free and democratic system. The EU is fundamentally undemocratic which is why we are seeing a rise in support for anti EU parties at elections all over Europe. Many people all over Europe are not happy with the EU and it is failing them with the ongoing Eurozone crisis, the ongoing migration crisis and high levels of unemployment in many EU countries.
Well written, but you are feeding the troll again.
It saves a lot of effort when UKIP trolls agree on something - anyone who reads it knows it should be taken with a huge pinch of salt.
That's ok fella, because we take all yours with a shovel full.
Sits, watches and smiles"Ah the UKIP garden gnome joins in too. | |||
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"Staying in EU is worse. Yes EU people already here can stay as they came here legally so that is only right, but going onwards from June 23rd, when we leave we can control our borders and immigration much better to a sensible level so we can plan for future infrastructure spending properly. This will benefit ordinary working class folk when public services become less strained and start to improve. Small business and entrepreneurs will benefit when they can cut costs and EU red tape. May result in more jobs being created so a total win for ordinary people. More tax revenue in the UK when we make an instant saving of billions on our EU membership fee. That money can be redirected into the Nhs, hospitals, GP surgeries, schools and education, new roads, railways and bridges, etc. The EU TTIP deal is also a very real threat to the Nhs. More and better trade links with the rest of the world beyond the borders of the EU where we currently have a trade surplus which is growing each year. In contrast the Euro zone is stagnating and we have a trade deficit with the EU. In general people feel better about their way of life and are happier when they live under a free and democratic system. The EU is fundamentally undemocratic which is why we are seeing a rise in support for anti EU parties at elections all over Europe. Many people all over Europe are not happy with the EU and it is failing them with the ongoing Eurozone crisis, the ongoing migration crisis and high levels of unemployment in many EU countries.
Well written, but you are feeding the troll again.
It saves a lot of effort when UKIP trolls agree on something - anyone who reads it knows it should be taken with a huge pinch of salt.
That's ok fella, because we take all yours with a shovel full.
Sits, watches and smiles
Ah the UKIP garden gnome joins in too. "Oh very good. That's a new one. | |||
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" "in" is the only sensible vote. Smoking kills. alcohol is bad for you. you need 5 a day. The same people telling us this would say a fab lifstyle is wrong. I will be voting "out". I do not need reasons. if the government can't keep this country going if out of eu why the #### are they in power. " | |||
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"Out is worse. The exit campaign leaders state that all EU people here already can stay. So the same number competing for jobs and resources still. Many businesses will struggle. Some will relocate and others go bust. Total lose for ordinary people. Less tax revenue in the UK will mean services you rely on will be cut even more. EU phone roaming charges are scrapped next year but we will face huge fees again instead. A new immigrant arrives in UK every 4 seconds and that is acceptable you think! what is the division line between an ordinary person and one that can manage either way no problem? ." Your quote of me appears to have no direct correlation to my points. If the current immigrants stay then the current issues people try to look for from that will not disappear. I highlighted some predictor changes should the country decide to leave Europe. It will take years to negotiate and implement new changes and agreements, another period of market uncertainty - similar to the current situation with our depression upon investment and our market position. There are many great negatives for the ordinary people in the UK, should the give up vote prevail. Jobs, wages, services, the economy amongst them. | |||
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"Staying in EU is worse. Yes EU people already here can stay as they came here legally so that is only right, but going onwards from June 23rd, when we leave we can control our borders and immigration much better to a sensible level so we can plan for future infrastructure spending properly. This will benefit ordinary working class folk when public services become less strained and start to improve. Small business and entrepreneurs will benefit when they can cut costs and EU red tape. May result in more jobs being created so a total win for ordinary people. More tax revenue in the UK when we make an instant saving of billions on our EU membership fee. That money can be redirected into the Nhs, hospitals, GP surgeries, schools and education, new roads, railways and bridges, etc. The EU TTIP deal is also a very real threat to the Nhs. More and better trade links with the rest of the world beyond the borders of the EU where we currently have a trade surplus which is growing each year. In contrast the Euro zone is stagnating and we have a trade deficit with the EU. In general people feel better about their way of life and are happier when they live under a free and democratic system. The EU is fundamentally undemocratic which is why we are seeing a rise in support for anti EU parties at elections all over Europe. Many people all over Europe are not happy with the EU and it is failing them with the ongoing Eurozone crisis, the ongoing migration crisis and high levels of unemployment in many EU countries. " From what I've read and heard several times is that if we vote out on the 23rd, the UK will not be out of the EU immediately. For Several years we will still have to pay the membership fees and negotiate our way out over time, still having to comply with EU laws and regulations. It's going to be a long drawn out process. | |||
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"Will being either in or out be better for the ordinary working class? It ssems to me that either way, it's going to be the ordinary lower wage gtoups that will be hit " It really depends.... But it is an interesting question, because in the world of the out campaign there are going to be no bad effects But in the real world... There will be... And some possibly interesting side effects If I was working in an industry that relies on a heavy amount of exports... I'd be worried Farming and fisheries... I'd be worried The 200k in the car industry... I'd be worried | |||
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"Will being either in or out be better for the ordinary working class? It ssems to me that either way, it's going to be the ordinary lower wage gtoups that will be hit " If you want a local Sunderland example... Pay close attention to what happens at Nissan and to a lot of the call centre business at doxford | |||
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"Will being either in or out be better for the ordinary working class? It ssems to me that either way, it's going to be the ordinary lower wage gtoups that will be hit If you want a local Sunderland example... Pay close attention to what happens at Nissan and to a lot of the call centre business at doxford " Have Nissan changed their minds since their public statement where they made it clear that they will remain in the uk in the event of brexit? | |||
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"Proper legislation for no benefits without minimum term in the UK e.g. 4 years permenant residency, coupled with strict enforcement of the living wage will stop immigration issues cold. This is and has always been within the power of the UK government. Result would be no job and insufficient contributions, leave the country, living wage stops companies bringing in cheap labour. I also like the Danish rule on house buying to stop non Danish buyers pushing the prices up. May help in London. The problem is the UK Government, not the EU. Only reason to vote leave is if you are confident that removing the scapegoat will improve the Government. " living wage is cheap labour | |||
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".... snipped.... if we vote to leave we immediately get 365 million pounds a week we can spend on other things ....... " 1) Considering that £365 million a week is NOT paid to the EU and it would take years to get out - that point is about as wrong as wrong could be. 2) You assume that whatever figure it costs to be a part of the EU has no return benefit - this is also wrong. Tax revenues from businesses directly trading in the free market are a benefit. If you stop paying your Golf Membership, you stop playing golf. The Brexit idea is that you stop paying your Golf Membership but get special priviliges to still play. | |||
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".... snipped.... if we vote to leave we immediately get 365 million pounds a week we can spend on other things ....... 1) Considering that £365 million a week is NOT paid to the EU and it would take years to get out - that point is about as wrong as wrong could be. 2) You assume that whatever figure it costs to be a part of the EU has no return benefit - this is also wrong. Tax revenues from businesses directly trading in the free market are a benefit. If you stop paying your Golf Membership, you stop playing golf. The Brexit idea is that you stop paying your Golf Membership but get special priviliges to still play. " Another interesting think people fail to mention. How sodding long do they think it will take one nation to renegotiate trade with everyone we all ready can trade with. As I have said before - if the likes of Farage are so certain it can be done quickly then why not get a declaration from other nations with their estimates and their trade deal offers to us. That would atleast reassure me a bit more to possibly vote out. | |||
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".... snipped.... if we vote to leave we immediately get 365 million pounds a week we can spend on other things ....... 1) Considering that £365 million a week is NOT paid to the EU and it would take years to get out - that point is about as wrong as wrong could be. 2) You assume that whatever figure it costs to be a part of the EU has no return benefit - this is also wrong. Tax revenues from businesses directly trading in the free market are a benefit. If you stop paying your Golf Membership, you stop playing golf. The Brexit idea is that you stop paying your Golf Membership but get special priviliges to still play. Another interesting think people fail to mention. How sodding long do they think it will take one nation to renegotiate trade with everyone we all ready can trade with. As I have said before - if the likes of Farage are so certain it can be done quickly then why not get a declaration from other nations with their estimates and their trade deal offers to us. That would atleast reassure me a bit more to possibly vote out. " Why worry about trade deals? Nothing will change for a couple of years and if the pound drops by as much as the Remainers forecast people will be flocking to buy our goods | |||
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"Out is worse. The exit campaign leaders state that all EU people here already can stay. So the same number competing for jobs and resources still. Many businesses will struggle. Some will relocate and others go bust. Total lose for ordinary people. Less tax revenue in the UK will mean services you rely on will be cut even more. EU phone roaming charges are scrapped next year but we will face huge fees again instead. Out is best. The EU is looking to expand to include poorer and poorer countries so that the large corporations in the richer countries have a larger pool of cheap available labour. Most smaller businesses seem to be in favour of out. Tax revenues will increase because wages will rise and less will be paid out in tax credits. When roaming charges are reduced domestic calls will rise to cover the shortfall anyway" I live in Ireland and the company I work for deals with a lot of UK companies. Some of them are foreign companies based in the UK and others are totally British. Every one of them has said they want to stay in the EU. One of the companies has said it would consider moving to Ireland if there is an exit. It seems a lot of people are basing it on immigration but from a business point of view it staying in would be better. | |||
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"Will being either in or out be better for the ordinary working class? It ssems to me that either way, it's going to be the ordinary lower wage gtoups that will be hit It really depends.... But it is an interesting question, because in the world of the out campaign there are going to be no bad effects But in the real world... There will be... And some possibly interesting side effects If I was working in an industry that relies on a heavy amount of exports... I'd be worried Farming and fisheries... I'd be worried The 200k in the car industry... I'd be worried " A business here works with a German business that exports all of its products to the UK for final finishing. They are then sold and exported back and to other countries. All of the businesses here involved will lose out, as well as all the uk staff and the UK taxman. Import tariffs will kill it as a business option. All the logistics firms and suppliers fail with this too. But some tory smart arse on Brexit team lies about being in support and pretends we'll get sovereignty, so everything is rosy. Our currency is deflated, due to uncertainty and the markets not liking the concept at all. Years of wrangling whilst we're still in the UK with immigration the same but some self-interested politician gets to attempt to further his career. Meanwhile all UK travellers can look forward to increased mobile costs in Europe that could cost an awful lot of money for us. It's an ordinary person loss maker. | |||
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"Maybe the Remainers should do a little research into the 'ordinary people' of Spain, Italy, Greece and Portugal and how the EU has affected them" | |||
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"Will being either in or out be better for the ordinary working class? It ssems to me that either way, it's going to be the ordinary lower wage gtoups that will be hit It really depends.... But it is an interesting question, because in the world of the out campaign there are going to be no bad effects But in the real world... There will be... And some possibly interesting side effects If I was working in an industry that relies on a heavy amount of exports... I'd be worried Farming and fisheries... I'd be worried The 200k in the car industry... I'd be worried A business here works with a German business that exports all of its products to the UK for final finishing. They are then sold and exported back and to other countries. All of the businesses here involved will lose out, as well as all the uk staff and the UK taxman. Import tariffs will kill it as a business option. All the logistics firms and suppliers fail with this too. But some tory smart arse on Brexit team lies about being in support and pretends we'll get sovereignty, so everything is rosy. Our currency is deflated, due to uncertainty and the markets not liking the concept at all. Years of wrangling whilst we're still in the UK with immigration the same but some self-interested politician gets to attempt to further his career. Meanwhile all UK travellers can look forward to increased mobile costs in Europe that could cost an awful lot of money for us. It's an ordinary person loss maker." what do you mean our currency is deflated? and as I said earlier a reduction in roaming charges will lead to higher domestic charges so that the phone companies maintain their profits, therefore hitting the poorest people, who probably can't afford to travel abroad much, the most | |||
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"Maybe the Remainers should do a little research into the 'ordinary people' of Spain, Italy, Greece and Portugal and how the EU has affected them "You forgot about the ordinary people of Cyprus, who were threatened with having money forcibly taken direct from their bank accounts by the EU. | |||
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"Will being either in or out be better for the ordinary working class? It ssems to me that either way, it's going to be the ordinary lower wage gtoups that will be hit It really depends.... But it is an interesting question, because in the world of the out campaign there are going to be no bad effects But in the real world... There will be... And some possibly interesting side effects If I was working in an industry that relies on a heavy amount of exports... I'd be worried Farming and fisheries... I'd be worried The 200k in the car industry... I'd be worried A business here works with a German business that exports all of its products to the UK for final finishing. They are then sold and exported back and to other countries. All of the businesses here involved will lose out, as well as all the uk staff and the UK taxman. Import tariffs will kill it as a business option. All the logistics firms and suppliers fail with this too. But some tory smart arse on Brexit team lies about being in support and pretends we'll get sovereignty, so everything is rosy. Our currency is deflated, due to uncertainty and the markets not liking the concept at all. Years of wrangling whilst we're still in the UK with immigration the same but some self-interested politician gets to attempt to further his career. Meanwhile all UK travellers can look forward to increased mobile costs in Europe that could cost an awful lot of money for us. It's an ordinary person loss maker. what do you mean our currency is deflated? and as I said earlier a reduction in roaming charges will lead to higher domestic charges so that the phone companies maintain their profits, therefore hitting the poorest people, who probably can't afford to travel abroad much, the most" The whole economy is suspected of being depressed atm, with caution possibly for many years to come until the full cost of leaving is understood: Including money markets, we're holding ourselves, many businesses and investment here back. Or inward investment may just decide on a country with a more certain future ahead of it, instead of putting money into jobs, infrastructure etc here. Some of my business friends and I met with MPs last week. They could not justify how it could do anything but decimate those multi-million pound businesses - they couldn't even attempt to, so had to just apologise and admit that huge numbers of businesses will face catastrophic losses and some areas will see thousands losing their jobs - including in their constituencies. Be aware that many of the politicians are happy to lie to the media about the real cost of leaving Europe. They are too frightened now to speak the truth. Boris as their leader is the chief liar, pretending it's right to leave. | |||
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"Will being either in or out be better for the ordinary working class? It ssems to me that either way, it's going to be the ordinary lower wage gtoups that will be hit It really depends.... But it is an interesting question, because in the world of the out campaign there are going to be no bad effects But in the real world... There will be... And some possibly interesting side effects If I was working in an industry that relies on a heavy amount of exports... I'd be worried Farming and fisheries... I'd be worried The 200k in the car industry... I'd be worried A business here works with a German business that exports all of its products to the UK for final finishing. They are then sold and exported back and to other countries. All of the businesses here involved will lose out, as well as all the uk staff and the UK taxman. Import tariffs will kill it as a business option. All the logistics firms and suppliers fail with this too. But some tory smart arse on Brexit team lies about being in support and pretends we'll get sovereignty, so everything is rosy. Our currency is deflated, due to uncertainty and the markets not liking the concept at all. Years of wrangling whilst we're still in the UK with immigration the same but some self-interested politician gets to attempt to further his career. Meanwhile all UK travellers can look forward to increased mobile costs in Europe that could cost an awful lot of money for us. It's an ordinary person loss maker. what do you mean our currency is deflated? and as I said earlier a reduction in roaming charges will lead to higher domestic charges so that the phone companies maintain their profits, therefore hitting the poorest people, who probably can't afford to travel abroad much, the most The whole economy is suspected of being depressed atm, with caution possibly for many years to come until the full cost of leaving is understood: Including money markets, we're holding ourselves, many businesses and investment here back. Or inward investment may just decide on a country with a more certain future ahead of it, instead of putting money into jobs, infrastructure etc here. Some of my business friends and I met with MPs last week. They could not justify how it could do anything but decimate those multi-million pound businesses - they couldn't even attempt to, so had to just apologise and admit that huge numbers of businesses will face catastrophic losses and some areas will see thousands losing their jobs - including in their constituencies. Be aware that many of the politicians are happy to lie to the media about the real cost of leaving Europe. They are too frightened now to speak the truth. Boris as their leader is the chief liar, pretending it's right to leave. " I am aware they lie but you seem to think the lies come from one side. Learn the facts not what people tell you | |||
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"Will being either in or out be better for the ordinary working class? It ssems to me that either way, it's going to be the ordinary lower wage gtoups that will be hit It really depends.... But it is an interesting question, because in the world of the out campaign there are going to be no bad effects But in the real world... There will be... And some possibly interesting side effects If I was working in an industry that relies on a heavy amount of exports... I'd be worried Farming and fisheries... I'd be worried The 200k in the car industry... I'd be worried A business here works with a German business that exports all of its products to the UK for final finishing. They are then sold and exported back and to other countries. All of the businesses here involved will lose out, as well as all the uk staff and the UK taxman. Import tariffs will kill it as a business option. All the logistics firms and suppliers fail with this too. But some tory smart arse on Brexit team lies about being in support and pretends we'll get sovereignty, so everything is rosy. Our currency is deflated, due to uncertainty and the markets not liking the concept at all. Years of wrangling whilst we're still in the UK with immigration the same but some self-interested politician gets to attempt to further his career. Meanwhile all UK travellers can look forward to increased mobile costs in Europe that could cost an awful lot of money for us. It's an ordinary person loss maker. what do you mean our currency is deflated? and as I said earlier a reduction in roaming charges will lead to higher domestic charges so that the phone companies maintain their profits, therefore hitting the poorest people, who probably can't afford to travel abroad much, the most The whole economy is suspected of being depressed atm, with caution possibly for many years to come until the full cost of leaving is understood: Including money markets, we're holding ourselves, many businesses and investment here back. Or inward investment may just decide on a country with a more certain future ahead of it, instead of putting money into jobs, infrastructure etc here. Some of my business friends and I met with MPs last week. They could not justify how it could do anything but decimate those multi-million pound businesses - they couldn't even attempt to, so had to just apologise and admit that huge numbers of businesses will face catastrophic losses and some areas will see thousands losing their jobs - including in their constituencies. Be aware that many of the politicians are happy to lie to the media about the real cost of leaving Europe. They are too frightened now to speak the truth. Boris as their leader is the chief liar, pretending it's right to leave. " If you are going to start talking about liars then look no further than David Cameron the leader of the Remain campaign. He was telling the British public back in February during his EU renegotiation deal that if he didn't get what he wanted he ruled nothing out (suggesting he could go for Brexit). In a leaked document this week it turns out all the while before the EU (non) renegotiation deal was signed Cameron was sweet talking big business leaders to get them onside for the Remain campaign. Cameron has been caught out he is a 100% certified Liar. Meanwhile another leading figure for the Remain campaign is that other 100% certified Liar Tony Blair who lied to all of us about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Who on earth trusts anything Tony Blair has to say these days? | |||
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"Im out but from what ive seen id vet a large amount we stay in. I just hope we get a good turn out at the polling station "£GBP has strengthened considerably since the latest opinion polls showed a significant remain majority. | |||
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"You know there's not many people with any faith in capitalism on here, I mean I'm the anti capitalist but Jesus at least I'd acknowledge it's ability to cope with regulations....I mean the whole point of business is to get it to work for the benefit of the citizens. Now we seem to be caring more about making it as easy possible regardless of the problems it's causing, it's exactly what went wrong in the banking sector, it seems like none of the other problems matter providing trading is at maximum levels... Well that's just dandy but. We've just spent the last twenty years making it as easy as possible for businesses, lowering company tax's, pushing down interest rates, airport and port expansion, multi level global trade deals, ridiculously cheap labour and a complete lack of environmental legislation or penalties for breaches.... And how's it turned out.... Fucked up. So please please please spare me this utter bollocks of free trade and capital enlightening the world and making us all prance around like spring lambs while basking in its glow!!!....I hate to point this out but Spain, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Portugal, they've had all this for 15 years now and are completely fucked. . . The mindset should be, how do we get commerce to work best for us.. Not how easy can I make it for commerce and let's hope it trickles down... because people were feed this trickle down economic mantra for years by Thatcher and Reagan and quite frankly it sounded like it was bollocks then and now it's just proven bollocks but still regurgitated while discussing trade deals.... I mean come on... Albania what the fuck are you doing bringing Albania into a free trade block, they import fuck all because there piss poor and export car criminals, drug gangs, sex traffickers and.... Cheap labour"
I get the economy argument from the remain side but it's like people are afraid to do anything but cling to the status quo.
It's an out vote from me. And everyone I've spoken to says the same. But it seems to be taboo to admit you want out x | |||
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"You know there's not many people with any faith in capitalism on here, I mean I'm the anti capitalist but Jesus at least I'd acknowledge it's ability to cope with regulations....I mean the whole point of business is to get it to work for the benefit of the citizens. Now we seem to be caring more about making it as easy possible regardless of the problems it's causing, it's exactly what went wrong in the banking sector, it seems like none of the other problems matter providing trading is at maximum levels... Well that's just dandy but. We've just spent the last twenty years making it as easy as possible for businesses, lowering company tax's, pushing down interest rates, airport and port expansion, multi level global trade deals, ridiculously cheap labour and a complete lack of environmental legislation or penalties for breaches.... And how's it turned out.... Fucked up. So please please please spare me this utter bollocks of free trade and capital enlightening the world and making us all prance around like spring lambs while basking in its glow!!!....I hate to point this out but Spain, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Portugal, they've had all this for 15 years now and are completely fucked. . . The mindset should be, how do we get commerce to work best for us.. Not how easy can I make it for commerce and let's hope it trickles down... because people were feed this trickle down economic mantra for years by Thatcher and Reagan and quite frankly it sounded like it was bollocks then and now it's just proven bollocks but still regurgitated while discussing trade deals.... I mean come on... Albania what the fuck are you doing bringing Albania into a free trade block, they import fuck all because there piss poor and export car criminals, drug gangs, sex traffickers and.... Cheap labour
I get the economy argument from the remain side but it's like people are afraid to do anything but cling to the status quo.
It's an out vote from me. And everyone I've spoken to says the same. But it seems to be taboo to admit you want out x"Not taboo at all, I want to leave the EU and proud of it. Voting to Remain is not a vote for the status Quo. If we stay in then we will be sucked into a united states of Europe as outlined in the EU five presidents report with more and more poorer countries joining on at the sides. That is the future you are voting for if you vote remain. | |||
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"Im out but from what ive seen id vet a large amount we stay in. I just hope we get a good turn out at the polling station
£GBP has strengthened considerably since the latest opinion polls showed a significant remain majority. ". That's great for you maybe?.... But it's really bad news because right now the biggest problem facing UK plc is our trade account deficit which is at record levels and growing, in fact last month was something like 12 billon pounds, that's the entire EU budget for a year in one month, we need to export more like shit loads more and import less, like shit loads less, that means we need a much much weaker currency and to stop fucking about with housing and stock market bubbles of boom bust. The bank of international settlement has already warned the UK about its falling productivity ratings | |||
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"Staying in EU is worse. Yes EU people already here can stay as they came here legally so that is only right, but going onwards from June 23rd, when we leave we can control our borders and immigration much better to a sensible level so we can plan for future infrastructure spending properly. This will benefit ordinary working class folk when public services become less strained and start to improve. Small business and entrepreneurs will benefit when they can cut costs and EU red tape. May result in more jobs being created so a total win for ordinary people. More tax revenue in the UK when we make an instant saving of billions on our EU membership fee. That money can be redirected into the Nhs, hospitals, GP surgeries, schools and education, new roads, railways and bridges, etc. The EU TTIP deal is also a very real threat to the Nhs. More and better trade links with the rest of the world beyond the borders of the EU where we currently have a trade surplus which is growing each year. In contrast the Euro zone is stagnating and we have a trade deficit with the EU. In general people feel better about their way of life and are happier when they live under a free and democratic system. The EU is fundamentally undemocratic which is why we are seeing a rise in support for anti EU parties at elections all over Europe. Many people all over Europe are not happy with the EU and it is failing them with the ongoing Eurozone crisis, the ongoing migration crisis and high levels of unemployment in many EU countries. " | |||
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"You know there's not many people with any faith in capitalism on here, I mean I'm the anti capitalist but Jesus at least I'd acknowledge it's ability to cope with regulations....I mean the whole point of business is to get it to work for the benefit of the citizens. Now we seem to be caring more about making it as easy possible regardless of the problems it's causing, it's exactly what went wrong in the banking sector, it seems like none of the other problems matter providing trading is at maximum levels... Well that's just dandy but. We've just spent the last twenty years making it as easy as possible for businesses, lowering company tax's, pushing down interest rates, airport and port expansion, multi level global trade deals, ridiculously cheap labour and a complete lack of environmental legislation or penalties for breaches.... And how's it turned out.... Fucked up. So please please please spare me this utter bollocks of free trade and capital enlightening the world and making us all prance around like spring lambs while basking in its glow!!!....I hate to point this out but Spain, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Portugal, they've had all this for 15 years now and are completely fucked. . . The mindset should be, how do we get commerce to work best for us.. Not how easy can I make it for commerce and let's hope it trickles down... because people were feed this trickle down economic mantra for years by Thatcher and Reagan and quite frankly it sounded like it was bollocks then and now it's just proven bollocks but still regurgitated while discussing trade deals.... I mean come on... Albania what the fuck are you doing bringing Albania into a free trade block, they import fuck all because there piss poor and export car criminals, drug gangs, sex traffickers and.... Cheap labour
I get the economy argument from the remain side but it's like people are afraid to do anything but cling to the status quo.
It's an out vote from me. And everyone I've spoken to says the same. But it seems to be taboo to admit you want out x"I'm an in person , seems I car about the welfare of all humans not just UK born ones The world is in strife, the UK is wealthy and knowledgeable I feel we should at least aim for human unity whist still helping the tribespeople indulge in their insular identities Its not a case of UK prosperity my perspective it will do well regardless of decision I don't want to be associated with the fuck you I'm OK point of view The UK has problems they are the same ones shared by humanity across Europe and across the world because we contain humans Head in sand tribalism is very protective of some humans but I care no more or no less for another UK human than I do a European or an African or Indian The world has some big problems arising soon , population, energy , food , climate, disease, poverty wars and inequality Banding into insular tribal my mate or my family units is petty and trivial and will not help with the large picture For that humans need to work together or at least strive towards such ends even if futile xxx | |||
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"Im out but from what ive seen id vet a large amount we stay in. I just hope we get a good turn out at the polling station
£GBP has strengthened considerably since the latest opinion polls showed a significant remain majority. "Still out my decisions made. Sorry | |||
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".... snipped.... if we vote to leave we immediately get 365 million pounds a week we can spend on other things ....... 1) Considering that £365 million a week is NOT paid to the EU and it would take years to get out - that point is about as wrong as wrong could be. 2) You assume that whatever figure it costs to be a part of the EU has no return benefit - this is also wrong. Tax revenues from businesses directly trading in the free market are a benefit. If you stop paying your Golf Membership, you stop playing golf. The Brexit idea is that you stop paying your Golf Membership but get special priviliges to still play. Another interesting think people fail to mention. How sodding long do they think it will take one nation to renegotiate trade with everyone we all ready can trade with. As I have said before - if the likes of Farage are so certain it can be done quickly then why not get a declaration from other nations with their estimates and their trade deal offers to us. That would atleast reassure me a bit more to possibly vote out. Why worry about trade deals? Nothing will change for a couple of years and if the pound drops by as much as the Remainers forecast people will be flocking to buy our goods "Because simply put trade deals make trade more stable and predicable. They set a set quota an price for the goods. Lets not forget that outside of the EU when trading, unless you have a trade deal with that nation you will be hit by tariffs. Also, may I ask, beyond cars - what are our other big exports, beyond qualified young people? Not being narky just curious, cause the only other thing I can think of is medical drugs and scientific equipment but that is just from my line of work. | |||
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"The EU may be brilliant for business but it is an absolute disaster for the ordinary indigenous population. " and next time you are in a hospital... talk to the staff.... as about 10-15% of them, by the nhs's own estimate are from the EU..... | |||
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"As most rules and regs these days are made at a global level and the EU increasingly becomes the middle man implementing these regs far better to be an independent sovereign country in having a say in how those measures are formed, like Norway, as opposed to having a one twenty seventh part." Norway has to implement all EU regulations and pay in to the EU but doesn't belong. | |||
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"You know there's not many people with any faith in capitalism on here, I mean I'm the anti capitalist but Jesus at least I'd acknowledge it's ability to cope with regulations....I mean the whole point of business is to get it to work for the benefit of the citizens. Now we seem to be caring more about making it as easy possible regardless of the problems it's causing, it's exactly what went wrong in the banking sector, it seems like none of the other problems matter providing trading is at maximum levels... Well that's just dandy but. We've just spent the last twenty years making it as easy as possible for businesses, lowering company tax's, pushing down interest rates, airport and port expansion, multi level global trade deals, ridiculously cheap labour and a complete lack of environmental legislation or penalties for breaches.... And how's it turned out.... Fucked up. So please please please spare me this utter bollocks of free trade and capital enlightening the world and making us all prance around like spring lambs while basking in its glow!!!....I hate to point this out but Spain, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Portugal, they've had all this for 15 years now and are completely fucked. . . The mindset should be, how do we get commerce to work best for us.. Not how easy can I make it for commerce and let's hope it trickles down... because people were feed this trickle down economic mantra for years by Thatcher and Reagan and quite frankly it sounded like it was bollocks then and now it's just proven bollocks but still regurgitated while discussing trade deals.... I mean come on... Albania what the fuck are you doing bringing Albania into a free trade block, they import fuck all because there piss poor and export car criminals, drug gangs, sex traffickers and.... Cheap labour
I get the economy argument from the remain side but it's like people are afraid to do anything but cling to the status quo.
It's an out vote from me. And everyone I've spoken to says the same. But it seems to be taboo to admit you want out x
Not taboo at all, I want to leave the EU and proud of it.
Voting to Remain is not a vote for the status Quo. If we stay in then we will be sucked into a united states of Europe as outlined in the EU five presidents report with more and more poorer countries joining on at the sides. That is the future you are voting for if you vote remain. "I think you need to do some reading. you will find we have opt outs from all the stuff you say will happen. | |||
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"Will being either in or out be better for the ordinary working class? It ssems to me that either way, it's going to be the ordinary lower wage gtoups that will be hit " I would imagine that largely depends on which industry the individual works in. To generalise is fallacious. | |||
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"The EU may be brilliant for business but it is an absolute disaster for the ordinary indigenous population. " Which indiginous population is that? The Anglo Saxons? The Vikings? The people who originally came from continental Europe when there was no English channel? The UK doesn't have an indigenous population. | |||
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".... snipped.... if we vote to leave we immediately get 365 million pounds a week we can spend on other things ....... 1) Considering that £365 million a week is NOT paid to the EU and it would take years to get out - that point is about as wrong as wrong could be. 2) You assume that whatever figure it costs to be a part of the EU has no return benefit - this is also wrong. Tax revenues from businesses directly trading in the free market are a benefit. If you stop paying your Golf Membership, you stop playing golf. The Brexit idea is that you stop paying your Golf Membership but get special priviliges to still play. Another interesting think people fail to mention. How sodding long do they think it will take one nation to renegotiate trade with everyone we all ready can trade with. As I have said before - if the likes of Farage are so certain it can be done quickly then why not get a declaration from other nations with their estimates and their trade deal offers to us. That would atleast reassure me a bit more to possibly vote out. Why worry about trade deals? Nothing will change for a couple of years and if the pound drops by as much as the Remainers forecast people will be flocking to buy our goods
Because simply put trade deals make trade more stable and predicable. They set a set quota an price for the goods. Lets not forget that outside of the EU when trading, unless you have a trade deal with that nation you will be hit by tariffs.
Also, may I ask, beyond cars - what are our other big exports, beyond qualified young people? Not being narky just curious, cause the only other thing I can think of is medical drugs and scientific equipment but that is just from my line of work."military hardware of all types shapes and sizes we are one of the worlds top six exporters of arms | |||
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" As for borders it's likely we will follow a Norway style agreement which keeps the free movement rules " We do not currently have 'free movement' rules, we have passport controls at our borders. It's unlikely that the UK will abolish passport control if we leave the EU. | |||
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" As for borders it's likely we will follow a Norway style agreement which keeps the free movement rules We do not currently have 'free movement' rules, we have passport controls at our borders. It's unlikely that the UK will abolish passport control if we leave the EU." Wrong We have free movement for EU citizens. Our Border Force check that you are eligible for this free movement and that your ID is genuine only. If you are from outside the EU or the other linked states such as Norway, Iceland or Switzerland, you have to qualify with a Visa, Entry Clearance Certificate or show that you are eligible for entry at the border depending on your nationality or reason for coming here. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
".... snipped.... if we vote to leave we immediately get 365 million pounds a week we can spend on other things ....... 1) Considering that £365 million a week is NOT paid to the EU and it would take years to get out - that point is about as wrong as wrong could be. 2) You assume that whatever figure it costs to be a part of the EU has no return benefit - this is also wrong. Tax revenues from businesses directly trading in the free market are a benefit. If you stop paying your Golf Membership, you stop playing golf. The Brexit idea is that you stop paying your Golf Membership but get special priviliges to still play. Another interesting think people fail to mention. How sodding long do they think it will take one nation to renegotiate trade with everyone we all ready can trade with. As I have said before - if the likes of Farage are so certain it can be done quickly then why not get a declaration from other nations with their estimates and their trade deal offers to us. That would atleast reassure me a bit more to possibly vote out. Why worry about trade deals? Nothing will change for a couple of years and if the pound drops by as much as the Remainers forecast people will be flocking to buy our goods
Because simply put trade deals make trade more stable and predicable. They set a set quota an price for the goods. Lets not forget that outside of the EU when trading, unless you have a trade deal with that nation you will be hit by tariffs.
Also, may I ask, beyond cars - what are our other big exports, beyond qualified young people? Not being narky just curious, cause the only other thing I can think of is medical drugs and scientific equipment but that is just from my line of work.military hardware of all types shapes and sizes we are one of the worlds top six exporters of arms "And one of the worlds top ten in everything put together. And still in the top ten of the worlds manufacturing nations. No thanks to the EU though | |||
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" As for borders it's likely we will follow a Norway style agreement which keeps the free movement rules We do not currently have 'free movement' rules, we have passport controls at our borders. It's unlikely that the UK will abolish passport control if we leave the EU. Wrong We have free movement for EU citizens. Our Border Force check that you are eligible for this free movement and that your ID is genuine only. If you are from outside the EU or the other linked states such as Norway, Iceland or Switzerland, you have to qualify with a Visa, Entry Clearance Certificate or show that you are eligible for entry at the border depending on your nationality or reason for coming here. " wasp is right......
yes, there is freedom of movement, however because the uk is not part of schengen, any EU citizen coming to the uk can only get in if they have a passport.....
there is only one execption to this... and this is for people travelling between the uk and ireland.. (ireland is not part of schengen either)
the uk and ireland have there own agreement for passport free travel (otherwise there would be a ruddy great border crossing between NI and Ire) | |||
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" As for borders it's likely we will follow a Norway style agreement which keeps the free movement rules We do not currently have 'free movement' rules, we have passport controls at our borders. It's unlikely that the UK will abolish passport control if we leave the EU. Wrong We have free movement for EU citizens. Our Border Force check that you are eligible for this free movement and that your ID is genuine only. If you are from outside the EU or the other linked states such as Norway, Iceland or Switzerland, you have to qualify with a Visa, Entry Clearance Certificate or show that you are eligible for entry at the border depending on your nationality or reason for coming here. wasp is right......
yes, there is freedom of movement, however because the uk is not part of schengen, any EU citizen coming to the uk can only get in if they have a passport.....
there is only one execption to this... and this is for people travelling between the uk and ireland.. (ireland is not part of schengen either)
the uk and ireland have there own agreement for passport free travel (otherwise there would be a ruddy great border crossing between NI and Ire)"Wrong EU citizens can travel on their ID cards which they have to legally carry in their home states. | |||
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"You know there's not many people with any faith in capitalism on here, I mean I'm the anti capitalist but Jesus at least I'd acknowledge it's ability to cope with regulations....I mean the whole point of business is to get it to work for the benefit of the citizens. Now we seem to be caring more about making it as easy possible regardless of the problems it's causing, it's exactly what went wrong in the banking sector, it seems like none of the other problems matter providing trading is at maximum levels... Well that's just dandy but. We've just spent the last twenty years making it as easy as possible for businesses, lowering company tax's, pushing down interest rates, airport and port expansion, multi level global trade deals, ridiculously cheap labour and a complete lack of environmental legislation or penalties for breaches.... And how's it turned out.... Fucked up. So please please please spare me this utter bollocks of free trade and capital enlightening the world and making us all prance around like spring lambs while basking in its glow!!!....I hate to point this out but Spain, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Portugal, they've had all this for 15 years now and are completely fucked. . . The mindset should be, how do we get commerce to work best for us.. Not how easy can I make it for commerce and let's hope it trickles down... because people were feed this trickle down economic mantra for years by Thatcher and Reagan and quite frankly it sounded like it was bollocks then and now it's just proven bollocks but still regurgitated while discussing trade deals.... I mean come on... Albania what the fuck are you doing bringing Albania into a free trade block, they import fuck all because there piss poor and export car criminals, drug gangs, sex traffickers and.... Cheap labour
I get the economy argument from the remain side but it's like people are afraid to do anything but cling to the status quo.
It's an out vote from me. And everyone I've spoken to says the same. But it seems to be taboo to admit you want out x
Not taboo at all, I want to leave the EU and proud of it.
Voting to Remain is not a vote for the status Quo. If we stay in then we will be sucked into a united states of Europe as outlined in the EU five presidents report with more and more poorer countries joining on at the sides. That is the future you are voting for if you vote remain.
I think you need to do some reading. you will find we have opt outs from all the stuff you say will happen. "I think you need to do some reading yourself. The EU five presidents report which I mentioned could take away some of our opt out options. Besides if we keep wanting to opt out of EU measures, wouldn't it be better to just opt out of the EU altogether. | |||
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" As for borders it's likely we will follow a Norway style agreement which keeps the free movement rules We do not currently have 'free movement' rules, we have passport controls at our borders. It's unlikely that the UK will abolish passport control if we leave the EU. Wrong We have free movement for EU citizens. Our Border Force check that you are eligible for this free movement and that your ID is genuine only. If you are from outside the EU or the other linked states such as Norway, Iceland or Switzerland, you have to qualify with a Visa, Entry Clearance Certificate or show that you are eligible for entry at the border depending on your nationality or reason for coming here. wasp is right......
yes, there is freedom of movement, however because the uk is not part of schengen, any EU citizen coming to the uk can only get in if they have a passport.....
there is only one execption to this... and this is for people travelling between the uk and ireland.. (ireland is not part of schengen either)
the uk and ireland have there own agreement for passport free travel (otherwise there would be a ruddy great border crossing between NI and Ire)
Wrong
EU citizens can travel on their ID cards which they have to legally carry in their home states."correct | |||
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"You know there's not many people with any faith in capitalism on here, I mean I'm the anti capitalist but Jesus at least I'd acknowledge it's ability to cope with regulations....I mean the whole point of business is to get it to work for the benefit of the citizens. Now we seem to be caring more about making it as easy possible regardless of the problems it's causing, it's exactly what went wrong in the banking sector, it seems like none of the other problems matter providing trading is at maximum levels... Well that's just dandy but. We've just spent the last twenty years making it as easy as possible for businesses, lowering company tax's, pushing down interest rates, airport and port expansion, multi level global trade deals, ridiculously cheap labour and a complete lack of environmental legislation or penalties for breaches.... And how's it turned out.... Fucked up. So please please please spare me this utter bollocks of free trade and capital enlightening the world and making us all prance around like spring lambs while basking in its glow!!!....I hate to point this out but Spain, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Portugal, they've had all this for 15 years now and are completely fucked. . . The mindset should be, how do we get commerce to work best for us.. Not how easy can I make it for commerce and let's hope it trickles down... because people were feed this trickle down economic mantra for years by Thatcher and Reagan and quite frankly it sounded like it was bollocks then and now it's just proven bollocks but still regurgitated while discussing trade deals.... I mean come on... Albania what the fuck are you doing bringing Albania into a free trade block, they import fuck all because there piss poor and export car criminals, drug gangs, sex traffickers and.... Cheap labour
I get the economy argument from the remain side but it's like people are afraid to do anything but cling to the status quo.
It's an out vote from me. And everyone I've spoken to says the same. But it seems to be taboo to admit you want out x
Not taboo at all, I want to leave the EU and proud of it.
Voting to Remain is not a vote for the status Quo. If we stay in then we will be sucked into a united states of Europe as outlined in the EU five presidents report with more and more poorer countries joining on at the sides. That is the future you are voting for if you vote remain.
I think you need to do some reading. you will find we have opt outs from all the stuff you say will happen.
I think you need to do some reading yourself. The EU five presidents report which I mentioned could take away some of our opt out options. Besides if we keep wanting to opt out of EU measures, wouldn't it be better to just opt out of the EU altogether. "Where in the EU five presidents report that you mention so often does it try to take away our opt out options? | |||
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" As for borders it's likely we will follow a Norway style agreement which keeps the free movement rules We do not currently have 'free movement' rules, we have passport controls at our borders. It's unlikely that the UK will abolish passport control if we leave the EU. Wrong We have free movement for EU citizens. Our Border Force check that you are eligible for this free movement and that your ID is genuine only. If you are from outside the EU or the other linked states such as Norway, Iceland or Switzerland, you have to qualify with a Visa, Entry Clearance Certificate or show that you are eligible for entry at the border depending on your nationality or reason for coming here. wasp is right......
yes, there is freedom of movement, however because the uk is not part of schengen, any EU citizen coming to the uk can only get in if they have a passport.....
there is only one execption to this... and this is for people travelling between the uk and ireland.. (ireland is not part of schengen either)
the uk and ireland have there own agreement for passport free travel (otherwise there would be a ruddy great border crossing between NI and Ire)
Wrong
EU citizens can travel on their ID cards which they have to legally carry in their home states."Really? I never encountered this when working over there. And when I go over to visit family in Norway I don't need a visa, I just show my passport. And as 4 EU intership students who work with me have explained to me, they need visas to study, work and live in the UK. If their parents were to visit them for more than a month, they need visas too - just as we would as British people visiting other EU countries. | |||
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" As for borders it's likely we will follow a Norway style agreement which keeps the free movement rules We do not currently have 'free movement' rules, we have passport controls at our borders. It's unlikely that the UK will abolish passport control if we leave the EU. Wrong We have free movement for EU citizens. Our Border Force check that you are eligible for this free movement and that your ID is genuine only. If you are from outside the EU or the other linked states such as Norway, Iceland or Switzerland, you have to qualify with a Visa, Entry Clearance Certificate or show that you are eligible for entry at the border depending on your nationality or reason for coming here. " WRONG! Absolute rubbish. I really wish you Brexiters would at least TRY to get your facts right. So, at UK Border, everyone is checked. Note: EVERYONE IS CHECKED. Anyone, EU citizen or not, can be refused entry on due grounds (ie we can't just turn someone away because we don't like the look of them, thank heavens). The U.K. has visa waiver programmes with many countries - for example in South America and the Middle East. Citizens of these countries can come into the UK without a visa or indeed any checks (other than being asked if they intend to work when they arrive at the border, which of course they are not allowed to do). So Brazilians have free movement (for up to six months) to come and go without any security checks on them without a visa. | |||
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".... snipped.... if we vote to leave we immediately get 365 million pounds a week we can spend on other things ....... 1) Considering that £365 million a week is NOT paid to the EU and it would take years to get out - that point is about as wrong as wrong could be. 2) You assume that whatever figure it costs to be a part of the EU has no return benefit - this is also wrong. Tax revenues from businesses directly trading in the free market are a benefit. If you stop paying your Golf Membership, you stop playing golf. The Brexit idea is that you stop paying your Golf Membership but get special priviliges to still play. Another interesting think people fail to mention. How sodding long do they think it will take one nation to renegotiate trade with everyone we all ready can trade with. As I have said before - if the likes of Farage are so certain it can be done quickly then why not get a declaration from other nations with their estimates and their trade deal offers to us. That would atleast reassure me a bit more to possibly vote out. Why worry about trade deals? Nothing will change for a couple of years and if the pound drops by as much as the Remainers forecast people will be flocking to buy our goods
Because simply put trade deals make trade more stable and predicable. They set a set quota an price for the goods. Lets not forget that outside of the EU when trading, unless you have a trade deal with that nation you will be hit by tariffs.
Also, may I ask, beyond cars - what are our other big exports, beyond qualified young people? Not being narky just curious, cause the only other thing I can think of is medical drugs and scientific equipment but that is just from my line of work.military hardware of all types shapes and sizes we are one of the worlds top six exporters of arms
And one of the worlds top ten in everything put together. And still in the top ten of the worlds manufacturing nations. No thanks to the EU though"I'll give you that, but we are behind Germany, France and Italy - even Denmark, Sweden and the Netherlands are catching up on us. So maybe the rest of Europe is doing something we should be? not trying to be rude, just thinking critically. | |||
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".... snipped.... if we vote to leave we immediately get 365 million pounds a week we can spend on other things ....... 1) Considering that £365 million a week is NOT paid to the EU and it would take years to get out - that point is about as wrong as wrong could be. 2) You assume that whatever figure it costs to be a part of the EU has no return benefit - this is also wrong. Tax revenues from businesses directly trading in the free market are a benefit. If you stop paying your Golf Membership, you stop playing golf. The Brexit idea is that you stop paying your Golf Membership but get special priviliges to still play. Another interesting think people fail to mention. How sodding long do they think it will take one nation to renegotiate trade with everyone we all ready can trade with. As I have said before - if the likes of Farage are so certain it can be done quickly then why not get a declaration from other nations with their estimates and their trade deal offers to us. That would atleast reassure me a bit more to possibly vote out. Why worry about trade deals? Nothing will change for a couple of years and if the pound drops by as much as the Remainers forecast people will be flocking to buy our goods
Because simply put trade deals make trade more stable and predicable. They set a set quota an price for the goods. Lets not forget that outside of the EU when trading, unless you have a trade deal with that nation you will be hit by tariffs.
Also, may I ask, beyond cars - what are our other big exports, beyond qualified young people? Not being narky just curious, cause the only other thing I can think of is medical drugs and scientific equipment but that is just from my line of work.military hardware of all types shapes and sizes we are one of the worlds top six exporters of arms
And one of the worlds top ten in everything put together. And still in the top ten of the worlds manufacturing nations. No thanks to the EU though
I'll give you that, but we are behind Germany, France and Italy - even Denmark, Sweden and the Netherlands are catching up on us. So maybe the rest of Europe is doing something we should be? not trying to be rude, just thinking critically."What, creating unemployment? We are ahead in other fields thats why I said top ten in those things no thanks to the EU. Without the restrictions we will do better. | |||
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" As for borders it's likely we will follow a Norway style agreement which keeps the free movement rules We do not currently have 'free movement' rules, we have passport controls at our borders. It's unlikely that the UK will abolish passport control if we leave the EU. Wrong We have free movement for EU citizens. Our Border Force check that you are eligible for this free movement and that your ID is genuine only. If you are from outside the EU or the other linked states such as Norway, Iceland or Switzerland, you have to qualify with a Visa, Entry Clearance Certificate or show that you are eligible for entry at the border depending on your nationality or reason for coming here. WRONG! Absolute rubbish. I really wish you Brexiters would at least TRY to get your facts right. So, at UK Border, everyone is checked. Note: EVERYONE IS CHECKED. Anyone, EU citizen or not, can be refused entry on due grounds (ie we can't just turn someone away because we don't like the look of them, thank heavens). The U.K. has visa waiver programmes with many countries - for example in South America and the Middle East. Citizens of these countries can come into the UK without a visa or indeed any checks (other than being asked if they intend to work when they arrive at the border, which of course they are not allowed to do). So Brazilians have free movement (for up to six months) to come and go without any security checks on them without a visa." Incorrect EU citizens are only checked for eligibility through presentation of a valid credential proving their status. Non EU citizens have to present a valid credential and then have to justify their reasons for entry. As I said above, some non EU countries citizens can get clearance at the border, but this doesn't automatically happen. There are a sizeable number of refusals of non EU citizens at the border. | |||
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"You know there's not many people with any faith in capitalism on here, I mean I'm the anti capitalist but Jesus at least I'd acknowledge it's ability to cope with regulations....I mean the whole point of business is to get it to work for the benefit of the citizens. Now we seem to be caring more about making it as easy possible regardless of the problems it's causing, it's exactly what went wrong in the banking sector, it seems like none of the other problems matter providing trading is at maximum levels... Well that's just dandy but. We've just spent the last twenty years making it as easy as possible for businesses, lowering company tax's, pushing down interest rates, airport and port expansion, multi level global trade deals, ridiculously cheap labour and a complete lack of environmental legislation or penalties for breaches.... And how's it turned out.... Fucked up. So please please please spare me this utter bollocks of free trade and capital enlightening the world and making us all prance around like spring lambs while basking in its glow!!!....I hate to point this out but Spain, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Portugal, they've had all this for 15 years now and are completely fucked. . . The mindset should be, how do we get commerce to work best for us.. Not how easy can I make it for commerce and let's hope it trickles down... because people were feed this trickle down economic mantra for years by Thatcher and Reagan and quite frankly it sounded like it was bollocks then and now it's just proven bollocks but still regurgitated while discussing trade deals.... I mean come on... Albania what the fuck are you doing bringing Albania into a free trade block, they import fuck all because there piss poor and export car criminals, drug gangs, sex traffickers and.... Cheap labour
I get the economy argument from the remain side but it's like people are afraid to do anything but cling to the status quo.
It's an out vote from me. And everyone I've spoken to says the same. But it seems to be taboo to admit you want out x
Not taboo at all, I want to leave the EU and proud of it.
Voting to Remain is not a vote for the status Quo. If we stay in then we will be sucked into a united states of Europe as outlined in the EU five presidents report with more and more poorer countries joining on at the sides. That is the future you are voting for if you vote remain.
I think you need to do some reading. you will find we have opt outs from all the stuff you say will happen.
I think you need to do some reading yourself. The EU five presidents report which I mentioned could take away some of our opt out options. Besides if we keep wanting to opt out of EU measures, wouldn't it be better to just opt out of the EU altogether. "a report is a report it's got no legislative impact and we can veto or opt out of anything that went further than that. | |||
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".... snipped.... if we vote to leave we immediately get 365 million pounds a week we can spend on other things ....... 1) Considering that £365 million a week is NOT paid to the EU and it would take years to get out - that point is about as wrong as wrong could be. 2) You assume that whatever figure it costs to be a part of the EU has no return benefit - this is also wrong. Tax revenues from businesses directly trading in the free market are a benefit. If you stop paying your Golf Membership, you stop playing golf. The Brexit idea is that you stop paying your Golf Membership but get special priviliges to still play. Another interesting think people fail to mention. How sodding long do they think it will take one nation to renegotiate trade with everyone we all ready can trade with. As I have said before - if the likes of Farage are so certain it can be done quickly then why not get a declaration from other nations with their estimates and their trade deal offers to us. That would atleast reassure me a bit more to possibly vote out. Why worry about trade deals? Nothing will change for a couple of years and if the pound drops by as much as the Remainers forecast people will be flocking to buy our goods
Because simply put trade deals make trade more stable and predicable. They set a set quota an price for the goods. Lets not forget that outside of the EU when trading, unless you have a trade deal with that nation you will be hit by tariffs.
Also, may I ask, beyond cars - what are our other big exports, beyond qualified young people? Not being narky just curious, cause the only other thing I can think of is medical drugs and scientific equipment but that is just from my line of work.military hardware of all types shapes and sizes we are one of the worlds top six exporters of arms
And one of the worlds top ten in everything put together. And still in the top ten of the worlds manufacturing nations. No thanks to the EU though
I'll give you that, but we are behind Germany, France and Italy - even Denmark, Sweden and the Netherlands are catching up on us. So maybe the rest of Europe is doing something we should be? not trying to be rude, just thinking critically.
What, creating unemployment?
We are ahead in other fields thats why I said top ten in those things no thanks to the EU.
Without the restrictions we will do better.
"How is European manufacturing creating unemployment. In most EU countries unemployment is going down. Look, most European countries have a few niche industries that they are better at than others, so making that point is rather void when we are competing with other developed EU nations. With all due respect restrictions help some businesses become more competitive and limit others. Also, what is gained for business does not translate to it flowing down to the average guy on the factory floor, stack shelves, working in an office. Our current government would probably make certain of that. | |||
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".... snipped.... if we vote to leave we immediately get 365 million pounds a week we can spend on other things ....... 1) Considering that £365 million a week is NOT paid to the EU and it would take years to get out - that point is about as wrong as wrong could be. 2) You assume that whatever figure it costs to be a part of the EU has no return benefit - this is also wrong. Tax revenues from businesses directly trading in the free market are a benefit. If you stop paying your Golf Membership, you stop playing golf. The Brexit idea is that you stop paying your Golf Membership but get special priviliges to still play. Another interesting think people fail to mention. How sodding long do they think it will take one nation to renegotiate trade with everyone we all ready can trade with. As I have said before - if the likes of Farage are so certain it can be done quickly then why not get a declaration from other nations with their estimates and their trade deal offers to us. That would atleast reassure me a bit more to possibly vote out. Why worry about trade deals? Nothing will change for a couple of years and if the pound drops by as much as the Remainers forecast people will be flocking to buy our goods
Because simply put trade deals make trade more stable and predicable. They set a set quota an price for the goods. Lets not forget that outside of the EU when trading, unless you have a trade deal with that nation you will be hit by tariffs.
Also, may I ask, beyond cars - what are our other big exports, beyond qualified young people? Not being narky just curious, cause the only other thing I can think of is medical drugs and scientific equipment but that is just from my line of work.military hardware of all types shapes and sizes we are one of the worlds top six exporters of arms
And one of the worlds top ten in everything put together. And still in the top ten of the worlds manufacturing nations. No thanks to the EU though
I'll give you that, but we are behind Germany, France and Italy - even Denmark, Sweden and the Netherlands are catching up on us. So maybe the rest of Europe is doing something we should be? not trying to be rude, just thinking critically.
What, creating unemployment?
We are ahead in other fields thats why I said top ten in those things no thanks to the EU.
Without the restrictions we will do better.
How is European manufacturing creating unemployment. In most EU countries unemployment is going down.
Look, most European countries have a few niche industries that they are better at than others, so making that point is rather void when we are competing with other developed EU nations.
With all due respect restrictions help some businesses become more competitive and limit others. Also, what is gained for business does not translate to it flowing down to the average guy on the factory floor, stack shelves, working in an office. Our current government would probably make certain of that."with all due respect, you don't know what you're talking about | |||
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"Proper legislation for no benefits without minimum term in the UK e.g. 4 years permenant residency, coupled with strict enforcement of the living wage will stop immigration issues cold. This is and has always been within the power of the UK government. Result would be no job and insufficient contributions, leave the country, living wage stops companies bringing in cheap labour. I also like the Danish rule on house buying to stop non Danish buyers pushing the prices up. May help in London. The problem is the UK Government, not the EU. Only reason to vote leave is if you are confident that removing the scapegoat will improve the Government. " i have pondered over the quality of british politicians.. and this government  | |||
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"Out is worse. The exit campaign leaders state that all EU people here already can stay. So the same number competing for jobs and resources still. Many businesses will struggle. Some will relocate and others go bust. Total lose for ordinary people. Less tax revenue in the UK will mean services you rely on will be cut even more. EU phone roaming charges are scrapped next year but we will face huge fees again instead. " There are roughly as many UK people living and working in the EU as EU nationals living and working here. Staying in or exiting will therefore make no difference. However there are thousands of EU nationals being brought over on short term agency contracts which take jobs from UK nationals. These people are not strictly immigrants because they often only stay for a month or two and are then replaced by others. If we exit we can put a stop to that. Why will businesses struggle they already have to pay the surcharges put in place by the EU when we leave the the EU the smallest of businesses who trade with the EU will immediately have a boost as they will no longer have to charge VAT on their goods. In addition they will not have to make VAT returns allowing them to concentrate on growing their business rather than gathering tax for EU fat cats. Tax revenue will grow not fall, we will do just as much trade with the EU as we do now at the same cost or less. Surely you don’t believe for a second that the EU will put tariffs on trade with the UK we are Germany’s largest customer, France would also condemn such tariffs as their exports to the UK would be drastically hit. | |||
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" Why will businesses struggle they already have to pay the surcharges put in place by the EU when we leave the the EU the smallest of businesses who trade with the EU will immediately have a boost as they will no longer have to charge VAT on their goods. In addition they will not have to make VAT returns allowing them to concentrate on growing their business rather than gathering tax for EU fat cats. " You are joking right? you don't seriously believe that the UK government is going to give up 20% of almost all retail sales. | |||
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" Why will businesses struggle they already have to pay the surcharges put in place by the EU when we leave the the EU the smallest of businesses who trade with the EU will immediately have a boost as they will no longer have to charge VAT on their goods. In addition they will not have to make VAT returns allowing them to concentrate on growing their business rather than gathering tax for EU fat cats. You are joking right? you don't seriously believe that the UK government is going to give up 20% of almost all retail sales." I am talking about UK businesses who are not vat registered have to charge vat when they trade with the EU. That adds another level of accounting into their system | |||
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"we are Germany’s largest customer " Yeah, largest customer after USA & France | |||
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" I am talking about UK businesses who are not vat registered have to charge vat when they trade with the EU. That adds another level of accounting into their system" Can't think of many window cleaners who trade internationally | |||
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"Will being either in or out be better for the ordinary working class? It ssems to me that either way, it's going to be the ordinary lower wage gtoups that will be hit If you want a local Sunderland example... Pay close attention to what happens at Nissan and to a lot of the call centre business at doxford Have Nissan changed their minds since their public statement where they made it clear that they will remain in the uk in the event of brexit?" No they haven't. They stated clearly that the result of the vote either way will not make a scrap of difference. Imports and exports are based on having the right goods at the right price...its calked market forces. Nothing can buck market forces in the long term (tariffs can short term) but as we import 4 times as much FROM the EU as we export TO the EU then there is as much chance of tariffs being imposed as there is of Daves WW3 or Gideons 18% house price drop. Nissan know this....hence they actually don't give a stuff either way. HSBC have said the same...so banks have a similar view. At the end of the day...it has never been done before...everyone's forecasts (though quickly turned into "facts" , particularly by Gideon Osbourne more than others) are nothing more than total guesses! | |||
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" but as we import 4 times as much FROM the EU as we export TO the EU then there is as much chance of tariffs being imposed as there is of Daves WW3 or Gideons 18% house price drop." What Christmas cracker did you pull that nonsense from? | |||
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".... snipped.... if we vote to leave we immediately get 365 million pounds a week we can spend on other things ....... 1) Considering that £365 million a week is NOT paid to the EU and it would take years to get out - that point is about as wrong as wrong could be. 2) You assume that whatever figure it costs to be a part of the EU has no return benefit - this is also wrong. Tax revenues from businesses directly trading in the free market are a benefit. If you stop paying your Golf Membership, you stop playing golf. The Brexit idea is that you stop paying your Golf Membership but get special priviliges to still play. Another interesting think people fail to mention. How sodding long do they think it will take one nation to renegotiate trade with everyone we all ready can trade with. As I have said before - if the likes of Farage are so certain it can be done quickly then why not get a declaration from other nations with their estimates and their trade deal offers to us. That would atleast reassure me a bit more to possibly vote out. Why worry about trade deals? Nothing will change for a couple of years and if the pound drops by as much as the Remainers forecast people will be flocking to buy our goods
Because simply put trade deals make trade more stable and predicable. They set a set quota an price for the goods. Lets not forget that outside of the EU when trading, unless you have a trade deal with that nation you will be hit by tariffs.
Also, may I ask, beyond cars - what are our other big exports, beyond qualified young people? Not being narky just curious, cause the only other thing I can think of is medical drugs and scientific equipment but that is just from my line of work.military hardware of all types shapes and sizes we are one of the worlds top six exporters of arms
And one of the worlds top ten in everything put together. And still in the top ten of the worlds manufacturing nations. No thanks to the EU though
I'll give you that, but we are behind Germany, France and Italy - even Denmark, Sweden and the Netherlands are catching up on us. So maybe the rest of Europe is doing something we should be? not trying to be rude, just thinking critically.
What, creating unemployment?
We are ahead in other fields thats why I said top ten in those things no thanks to the EU.
Without the restrictions we will do better.
How is European manufacturing creating unemployment. In most EU countries unemployment is going down.
Look, most European countries have a few niche industries that they are better at than others, so making that point is rather void when we are competing with other developed EU nations.
With all due respect restrictions help some businesses become more competitive and limit others. Also, what is gained for business does not translate to it flowing down to the average guy on the factory floor, stack shelves, working in an office. Our current government would probably make certain of that.
with all due respect, you don't know what you're talking about"With all due respect, what authority do you have to make that accusation? | |||
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"Trade Unions the RMT, Aslef and the bakers union BFAWU all support Brexit and say the EU does nothing to help ordinary British workers. www.express.co.uk/news/politics/671686/European-Union-workers-rights-trade-unions-RMT-Unison-Aslef-Brexit" Ah yes, the express, the most level headed paper in regards to the EU. | |||
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"Surely it's about a country having the right to make it's own laws ? And we have lost that ! OUT no question "No it's not just about that - remember you are not just voting for you, you are voting for a society impacting decision. Some people would say - especially younger people, that British politics on it's own wouldn't exactly make the best laws for itself. | |||
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"Anyone seen the latest from The unelected? EU Directive E-cigs are to be controlled as tobacco They are going to reduce the size I saw a report this morning Nicotine tests kill human skin cells E cigs do not So all that will happen is people will go back to cigs ! Well done the. gods of Brussels " Latest busy body interfering by the EU commission has been exposed by an investigation done by EurActiv website. It has found out the EU commission wants to impose at least 20% European content on Netflix. | |||
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"Trade Unions the RMT, Aslef and the bakers union BFAWU all support Brexit and say the EU does nothing to help ordinary British workers. www.express.co.uk/news/politics/671686/European-Union-workers-rights-trade-unions-RMT-Unison-Aslef-Brexit Ah yes, the express, the most level headed paper in regards to the EU." It does not matter which newspaper reported on it, the fact is those trade unions released a joint statement to say the EU does nothing to help ordinary British workers. | |||
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" but as we import 4 times as much FROM the EU as we export TO the EU then there is as much chance of tariffs being imposed as there is of Daves WW3 or Gideons 18% house price drop. What Christmas cracker did you pull that nonsense from?" Very much doubt it was from a Christmas cracker, Conservative MP Bill Cash used official government figures from the house of commons library in a recent EU debate in Westmister to say the following...."In relation to Britains relationship to the other 27 countries in the EU, Britain has a trade deficit of £67.8 billion pounds annually. When the same is applied to Germany then Germany has a trade surplus with the other 27 EU countries of £81.8 billion annually. So a loss for Britain and a gain for Germany, which kind of confirms what the original comment said which you ridiculed. In contrast the UK has a trade surplus with the rest of the world outside of the EU of £31.1 billion annually and growing each year. *Figures from House of Commons Library and not a Christmas cracker. | |||
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"Will being either in or out be better for the ordinary working class? It ssems to me that either way, it's going to be the ordinary lower wage gtoups that will be hit It really depends.... But it is an interesting question, because in the world of the out campaign there are going to be no bad effects But in the real world... There will be... And some possibly interesting side effects If I was working in an industry that relies on a heavy amount of exports... I'd be worried Farming and fisheries... I'd be worried The 200k in the car industry... I'd be worried A business here works with a German business that exports all of its products to the UK for final finishing. They are then sold and exported back and to other countries. All of the businesses here involved will lose out, as well as all the uk staff and the UK taxman. Import tariffs will kill it as a business option. All the logistics firms and suppliers fail with this too. But some tory smart arse on Brexit team lies about being in support and pretends we'll get sovereignty, so everything is rosy. Our currency is deflated, due to uncertainty and the markets not liking the concept at all. Years of wrangling whilst we're still in the UK with immigration the same but some self-interested politician gets to attempt to further his career. Meanwhile all UK travellers can look forward to increased mobile costs in Europe that could cost an awful lot of money for us. It's an ordinary person loss maker. what do you mean our currency is deflated? and as I said earlier a reduction in roaming charges will lead to higher domestic charges so that the phone companies maintain their profits, therefore hitting the poorest people, who probably can't afford to travel abroad much, the most The whole economy is suspected of being depressed atm, with caution possibly for many years to come until the full cost of leaving is understood: Including money markets, we're holding ourselves, many businesses and investment here back. Or inward investment may just decide on a country with a more certain future ahead of it, instead of putting money into jobs, infrastructure etc here. Some of my business friends and I met with MPs last week. They could not justify how it could do anything but decimate those multi-million pound businesses - they couldn't even attempt to, so had to just apologise and admit that huge numbers of businesses will face catastrophic losses and some areas will see thousands losing their jobs - including in their constituencies. Be aware that many of the politicians are happy to lie to the media about the real cost of leaving Europe. They are too frightened now to speak the truth. Boris as their leader is the chief liar, pretending it's right to leave. If you are going to start talking about liars then look no further than David Cameron the leader of the Remain campaign. He was telling the British public back in February during his EU renegotiation deal that if he didn't get what he wanted he ruled nothing out (suggesting he could go for Brexit). In a leaked document this week it turns out all the while before the EU (non) renegotiation deal was signed Cameron was sweet talking big business leaders to get them onside for the Remain campaign. Cameron has been caught out he is a 100% certified Liar. Meanwhile another leading figure for the Remain campaign is that other 100% certified Liar Tony Blair who lied to all of us about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Who on earth trusts anything Tony Blair has to say these days?" Then there is that other well known Liar from the Remain side called Peter Mandelson who said in 2003..."Staying out of the Euro would prove a disaster, the price we would pay in lost investment and trade and jobs would be incalculable." Then just last march this year in 2016 Madelson said..."What i was in favour of was keeping the option open and deciding whether it was in Britain's Interest to join the Euro." On BBC Newsnight in 2011 Peter Mandelson openly admitted he supported scrapping the Pound (£). | |||
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"Great debate ,great weights of information to make a sound decision whether we stay or go ....if we vote to leave at least we won't have the cheap yearly cringe watching effort called the Eurovision song contest ...surely that's enough to make everyone to vote out" I assume this was irony given the two are in no way connected. | |||
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"I'm undecided as yet, but one of the things that will still apply if we leave... in order to export to the Eurozone we will have to adopt euro trade rules AND we must abide by the laws/rules set by Europe for such trade. We will still have to pay into Europe to be able to do this. Also we will then have to allow free movement of euro citizens as part of trade agreement. So voting leave will not stop euro laws, free travel or paying into europe IF we still want to all trade with Europe. Yes simple answer is don't trade with the eurozone but huge number of British companies do so creates a big problem! " Why would we have to do this? In any case we are already complying with EU rules! | |||
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"You know there's not many people with any faith in capitalism on here, I mean I'm the anti capitalist but Jesus at least I'd acknowledge it's ability to cope with regulations....I mean the whole point of business is to get it to work for the benefit of the citizens. Now we seem to be caring more about making it as easy possible regardless of the problems it's causing, it's exactly what went wrong in the banking sector, it seems like none of the other problems matter providing trading is at maximum levels... Well that's just dandy but. We've just spent the last twenty years making it as easy as possible for businesses, lowering company tax's, pushing down interest rates, airport and port expansion, multi level global trade deals, ridiculously cheap labour and a complete lack of environmental legislation or penalties for breaches.... And how's it turned out.... Fucked up. So please please please spare me this utter bollocks of free trade and capital enlightening the world and making us all prance around like spring lambs while basking in its glow!!!....I hate to point this out but Spain, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Portugal, they've had all this for 15 years now and are completely fucked. . . The mindset should be, how do we get commerce to work best for us.. Not how easy can I make it for commerce and let's hope it trickles down... because people were feed this trickle down economic mantra for years by Thatcher and Reagan and quite frankly it sounded like it was bollocks then and now it's just proven bollocks but still regurgitated while discussing trade deals.... I mean come on... Albania what the fuck are you doing bringing Albania into a free trade block, they import fuck all because there piss poor and export car criminals, drug gangs, sex traffickers and.... Cheap labour" You are thinking in the right direction, commrade.  | |||
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"I'm undecided as yet, but one of the things that will still apply if we leave... in order to export to the Eurozone we will have to adopt euro trade rules AND we must abide by the laws/rules set by Europe for such trade. We will still have to pay into Europe to be able to do this. Also we will then have to allow free movement of euro citizens as part of trade agreement. So voting leave will not stop euro laws, free travel or paying into europe IF we still want to all trade with Europe. Yes simple answer is don't trade with the eurozone but huge number of British companies do so creates a big problem! Why would we have to do this? In any case we are already complying with EU rules! " Apparently its written into the free trade zone treaty so Norway etc have to do this too. | |||
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"I'm undecided as yet, but one of the things that will still apply if we leave... in order to export to the Eurozone we will have to adopt euro trade rules AND we must abide by the laws/rules set by Europe for such trade. We will still have to pay into Europe to be able to do this. Also we will then have to allow free movement of euro citizens as part of trade agreement. So voting leave will not stop euro laws, free travel or paying into europe IF we still want to all trade with Europe. Yes simple answer is don't trade with the eurozone but huge number of British companies do so creates a big problem! Why would we have to do this? In any case we are already complying with EU rules! Apparently its written into the free trade zone treaty so Norway etc have to do this too." Free trade zone? It's not free when we pay billions of pounds!! We aren't Norway. | |||
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"I'm undecided as yet, but one of the things that will still apply if we leave... in order to export to the Eurozone we will have to adopt euro trade rules AND we must abide by the laws/rules set by Europe for such trade. We will still have to pay into Europe to be able to do this. Also we will then have to allow free movement of euro citizens as part of trade agreement. So voting leave will not stop euro laws, free travel or paying into europe IF we still want to all trade with Europe. Yes simple answer is don't trade with the eurozone but huge number of British companies do so creates a big problem! " Absolutely correct. A number of Brexit voices on here have twisted and turned to try to suggest that we can: i) stop paying anything into the EU ii) get rid of all the legislation that underpins a single market (read red tape and bureaucracy) iii) stop all free movement and yet magically maintain our access to all the benefit that the single market brings 'because we are special'. It's of course nonsense and at least Vote Leave have eventually admitted that it's not credible to maintain the lie - they have finally confirmed that Brexit would result in us leaving the single market. And of course the EU is the largest single market in the world and accounts for around 50% of our trade. A market with which we already have harmonised trade rules...and are working with us to standardise rules on trade in services. Still switching our trade 'outwards' to trade with China (with it's lower wages, poorer working conditions, worse workers rights, poorer environmental standards, no shared trade rules, no trade standards in services) is clearly much better for the UK...acording to Brexiters anyway. Until that is our companies start the old mantra...we can't increase wages, because we now compete with China and........ | |||
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"Trade Unions the RMT, Aslef and the bakers union BFAWU all support Brexit and say the EU does nothing to help ordinary British workers. www.express.co.uk/news/politics/671686/European-Union-workers-rights-trade-unions-RMT-Unison-Aslef-Brexit Ah yes, the express, the most level headed paper in regards to the EU. It does not matter which newspaper reported on it, the fact is those trade unions released a joint statement to say the EU does nothing to help ordinary British workers. " Some of the unions supporting remaining in the EU: Communications workers union Fire Brigade Union GMB Nautilus (merchant navy/maritime professionals) TSSA (transport salaried staff) UCATT (construction workers) Unison Unite Let's not forget the luvvies: Equity Musician's Union Overall they represent about 75% of union members in the TUC. Many of the rest have decided to maintain a neutral position and a small minority (such as RMT, ASLEF and BECTU) have come out for leaving. And of course The TUC itself is supporting remaining in the EU. So is the National Farmers Union - though not quite the same sort of union. | |||
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"I work in the NHS, my mother does to in dentistry and hospitals between us! And we are voting for out! We simply cannot cope anymore with migration, we are pushed to a limits without more coming in, yes there will a struggle to begin with but we cannot allow more in. This is not a racial thing for me this is I have seen the struggle every day with my own eyes and the worse part is that most of them (not all) are not grateful for the NHS, iv seen this with my own eyes after giving my blood sweat and tears to treat them which is sad "
Good post from someone who works in the NHS.
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Excellent thoughts from the union that works for the NHS
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The EU does NOT protect jobs and investment here in the UK and the Ford Transit story proves it. | |||
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"The current government spends our money explaining to us why they think we should stay in the EU ? Smacks of good old propiganda. The NHS is safe while we are in the EU ? Check out the arguments over TTIP Transatlantic trade investment partnership with the EU. Then make your own decision." DO check all the lead figures in the Brexit campaign who are in favour of TTIP too. then make your own decision about how much you can believe them. Michael Gove (co-convener Vote Leave) – in 2009 called for the dismantling of the NHS. http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2009/aug/16/tory-mps-back-nhs-dismantling Matthew Elliott (chief executive Vote Leave) – is the founder of the Taxpayers Alliance – which has long argued for the break-up of the NHS and private competition in healthcare. Philip Davies (Better Off Out Campaign) – once blocked plans to reverse private sector involvement in the NHS by filibustering a private member’s bill. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nhs-reinstatement-bill-tory-mps-filibuster-debate-by-talking-about-deporting-foreigners-for-hours-a6925781.html Dominic Raab (campaign committee member Vote Leave) – as recently as last month advocated privatising the NHS. Link here. Peter Bone (campaign committee member Grassroots Out) – thinks the NHS should be forced to open up to US companies in the TTIP trade deal. (you can find that on the 'evolve politics' web site Steve Baker (campaign committee member Vote Leave) – in 2013 praised healthcare provision for the working classes in Britain before the NHS. Douglas Carswell (campaign committee member Vote Leave) – called for the “denationalising” and privatisation of healthcare provision in Britain. Lord Forsyth (campaign committee member Vote Leave) – in 2008, before Osborne and Cameron, was the first senior Tory to call for austerity and cuts in public services in response to the banking crisis. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/2609774/David-Camerons-Conservatives-must-cut-tax-and-spending-say-policy-chiefs.html Liam Fox (campaign committee member Vote Leave) – has called for cuts to what he called the “wasteful” NHS. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/liam-fox-next-tory-leader-conservativehome-a6867031.html Dan Hannan (campaign committee member Vote Leave) – in 2009 called for the dismantling of the NHS, calling it a “relic”. Andrea Leadsom (campaign committee member Vote Leave) – thinks the NHS should be forced to open up to US companies in TTIP trade deal. Philip Hollobone (campaign committee member Grassroots Out) – thinks the NHS should be forced to open up to US companies in the infamous TTIP trade deal. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nhs-reinstatement-bill-tory-mps-filibuster-debate-by-talking-about-deporting-foreigners-for-hours-a6925781.html | |||
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"The EU didn't do much to help the ordinary British folk who worked at the Ford Transit plant in Southampton. While we are in the EU now, the Ford Transit plant upped sticks and moved production of the Ford Transit van from Southampton over to Turkey (outside of the EU) back in 2013 as a cost cutting exercise. So much for the EU protecting British jobs and investment.
The EU does NOT protect jobs and investment here in the UK and the Ford Transit story proves it. "You keep closing down that factory in 2013 and forgetting about all the others that were opened and invested in because of our strong link to the EU. Do think about professor Minford and the Brexit economic policy when you come up with a reply: every time you see the words 'comparative advantage' in their pamphlet on the economy after Brexit, it means if imports are cheaper then we close down a British factory and tell the workers to get on their bikes and find a job elsewhere. They talk about 'transitional relief' for our manufacturing industry - it means buying some time while they close it down so that workers can learn how to become part of the service industry. But you haven't read Brexit's financial model have you? Try page 17. Closing down factories is at the very heart of the Brexit economic case. | |||
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"The current government spends our money explaining to us why they think we should stay in the EU ? Smacks of good old propiganda. The NHS is safe while we are in the EU ? Check out the arguments over TTIP Transatlantic trade investment partnership with the EU. Then make your own decision."
That was £9 million pounds of taxpayers money Cameron and his cronies on the Remain side wasted on one sided Propaganda leaflets which would have been much better spent on the NHS.
Plus you have figures on the Remain side like MP Jeremy Hunt the Health Secretary saying leaving the EU would damage the NHS, while he has overseen the current Junior Doctors debacle. Just Laughable stuff coming from the Remain side. | |||
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"I wouldn't mind staying in if things stayed as they are now. But Brussels won't leave us as we are and more EU intervention will come for sure SO VOTE TO LEAVE" I think Austria is heading same way as us, they want out of EU For the first time since the Second World War, the traditional parties of the centre left and centre right were knocked out of the race. Support for the Freedom Party has risen because of deep frustration with the established parties and, more recently, because of fears about the migrant crisis. Rightwing parties are gaining strength in a number of EU countries. European leaders will be watching the result closely | |||
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"The current government spends our money explaining to us why they think we should stay in the EU ? Smacks of good old propiganda. The NHS is safe while we are in the EU ? Check out the arguments over TTIP Transatlantic trade investment partnership with the EU. Then make your own decision.
That was £9 million pounds of taxpayers money Cameron and his cronies on the Remain side wasted on one sided Propaganda leaflets which would have been much better spent on the NHS.
Plus you have figures on the Remain side like MP Jeremy Hunt the Health Secretary saying leaving the EU would damage the NHS, while he has overseen the current Junior Doctors debacle. Just Laughable stuff coming from the Remain side. "More brexit crocodile tears about the nhs, hey? Don't forget that as well as that motley crew of Brexit nhs privatisers named above, your very own ukip independent economist is thoroughly in favour of privatising the NHS. That's Patrick Minford, architect of the poll tax. | |||
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"there sure is a lot of shite written on this thread, just keep it simple Vote Leave" As an SNP supporter for Brexit did you watch former Deputy leader of the SNP Jim Sillars make his speech in Orkney on friday, making the case for Brexit for the Scot.Leave campaign. In it he said there is a "glaring contradiction" in the official SNP leadership position of rejecting a union of 60 million (the UK), only to embrace a union of 500 million (the EU). Jim Sillars also appeared on BBC Question time on Thursday 12th May in Aberdeen making the case for Scotland to vote leave, in particular so that Scotland can reclaim its territorial fishing waters back from the EU. The ordinary Scottish folk who worked in the fishing industry have seen their livelihoods decimated and destroyed by the EU. Leave the EU and get the Scottish fishing industry back up on its feet again. www.heraldscotland.com/politics/14506653.Jim_Sillars_SNP_are_living_in_parallel_universe_by_campaigning_to_remain_in_EU/ | |||
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" it's basically turning into two ref... if economy is the biggest issue, remain will win..... if immigration is the biggest issue, leave will win" Indeed - the NHS is a red herring (needs a complete separate debate about what people want and how much it will cost) Leaving will not save much - we will still pay EU to trade as Norway already do - we wont be able to trade with US (as Obama has already tried to explain) - We will be able to trade with others but can already! - and prices will go up and the economy will suffer! If we leave then yes we can keep out johnny foreigner! - and then what!? | |||
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"there sure is a lot of shite written on this thread, just keep it simple Vote Leave" Well your last two words just added more shire. | |||
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" it's basically turning into two ref... if economy is the biggest issue, remain will win..... if immigration is the biggest issue, leave will win Indeed - the NHS is a red herring (needs a complete separate debate about what people want and how much it will cost) Leaving will not save much - we will still pay EU to trade as Norway already do - we wont be able to trade with US (as Obama has already tried to explain) - We will be able to trade with others but can already! - and prices will go up and the economy will suffer! If we leave then yes we can keep out johnny foreigner! - and then what!? " i did like the way the brexit defence minister on marr this morning tried to link it to both turkey and the nhs this morning..... only to be crushed by the chief exec giving the figures for how many EU doctors/durses there were working in the local hospital in her constiuency.... and saying if they left the hospital would not cope.... | |||
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" it's basically turning into two ref... if economy is the biggest issue, remain will win..... if immigration is the biggest issue, leave will win Indeed - the NHS is a red herring (needs a complete separate debate about what people want and how much it will cost) Leaving will not save much - we will still pay EU to trade as Norway already do - we wont be able to trade with US (as Obama has already tried to explain) - We will be able to trade with others but can already! - and prices will go up and the economy will suffer! If we leave then yes we can keep out johnny foreigner! - and then what!? i did like the way the brexit defence minister on marr this morning tried to link it to both turkey and the nhs this morning..... only to be crushed by the chief exec giving the figures for how many EU doctors/durses there were working in the local hospital in her constiuency.... and saying if they left the hospital would not cope.... " Funny how different people see things. I watched the Andrew Marr show this morning and to me the Chief executive of the NHS England Simon Stevens looked like he was constantly on the back foot. He consistently dodged Andrew Marr's direct questions on how an extra 3 million EU immigrants over the next 10 years would affect the NHS. When Andrew Marr told him the NHS Would benefit an instant windfall of a big share of the 10 billion saved on our EU membership fee, he dodged the question altogether and went off randomly talking about Mark Carney. Andrew Marr also pointed out to him that the number of NHS staff from the EU is small in comparison to Staff employed from outside of the EU (Pakistan, India, Bangladesh and so on). We are having to discriminate against and supress the number of Doctors and nurses who want to come here to work in our NHS from Countries like India and Bangladesh because of the open door we have to the EU. | |||
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"You don't think we should stop keep robbing all those nurses from India Pakistan and Jamaica then?" And you don't think we should stop robbing all those nurses from Poland, Hungary, Bulgaria and Romania and other Eastern European countries in the EU? | |||
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"I work in the NHS, my mother does to in dentistry and hospitals between us! And we are voting for out! We simply cannot cope anymore with migration, we are pushed to a limits without more coming in, yes there will a struggle to begin with but we cannot allow more in. This is not a racial thing for me this is I have seen the struggle every day with my own eyes and the worse part is that most of them (not all) are not grateful for the NHS, iv seen this with my own eyes after giving my blood sweat and tears to treat them which is sad
Good post from someone who works in the NHS.
"To counter it my mum an her friends work in the NHS and they all say that whilst strain has increased they do not trust anything the majority of brexiters say on the NHS, the majority of those on that side of the argument have attacked and contributed more problems to the NHS than migration overall. Yes, it would be nice if they didn't have as many patients to see, but all of them viewed tax evasion, privatisation and poor parliamentary decision making - on top of budget cuts supported by a large number of brexiters as a bigger problem. Until the brexit group can put a piece of legislation together saying "X amount of redeemed money from what we would pay to the EU will go 'X' service" I think they will struggle to convince NHS staff. Or maybe not, but the 14 members of staff I chatted with had that notion. | |||
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" it's basically turning into two ref... if economy is the biggest issue, remain will win..... if immigration is the biggest issue, leave will win Indeed - the NHS is a red herring (needs a complete separate debate about what people want and how much it will cost) Leaving will not save much - we will still pay EU to trade as Norway already do - we wont be able to trade with US (as Obama has already tried to explain) - We will be able to trade with others but can already! - and prices will go up and the economy will suffer! If we leave then yes we can keep out johnny foreigner! - and then what!? i did like the way the brexit defence minister on marr this morning tried to link it to both turkey and the nhs this morning..... only to be crushed by the chief exec giving the figures for how many EU doctors/durses there were working in the local hospital in her constiuency.... and saying if they left the hospital would not cope.... " Maybe if there were less EU patients it would cope | |||
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"Best way to get back control of our fishing industry is to leave the EU altogether. Then we can help ordinary workers in the British fishing industry by reclaiming our independent and sovereign right to a 200 mile zone of British territorial waters around the UK which only British boats will be able to fish in. Then we won't have to engage in a pointless exercise on trying to reform the EU common fisheries policy. The EU is opposed to any kind of reform and cannot be reformed. " The only people who are opposed to any kind of reform and cannot be reformed seem to be Brexit supporters. The total value of landings by the UK fleet (at home and abroad) was £861 million in 2014. This is a real-terms rise of 33% since 2004, but a real-terms fall of 3% since 1994. You can check that in the sea fisheries statistics - they keep a copy in the house of commons library. That hardly fits with the picture you try to paint of an industry that's been destroyed by membership of the EU. Before you send your gunboats out to take control of all that water, do make sure you explain to UK fishermen who won't be able to fish on the other side of the limit even though they historically have done. Don't forget that the fish don't know about this line you'll draw on the water. Now if you'd mentioned conservation I might have had to really strain myself and agree with you, but you didn't all you care about is snatching away territory. Are you going to be the one who tells the Brixham beam trawlers who export 80% of their catch to France, Spain and Italy that they'll just have to put up with tariffs (between 8 and 25%) on their catch and tough if that makes them too expensive to sell? Brexit tax- no thanks, very kind of you to offer it but you can keep it. | |||
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" it's basically turning into two ref... if economy is the biggest issue, remain will win..... if immigration is the biggest issue, leave will win Indeed - the NHS is a red herring (needs a complete separate debate about what people want and how much it will cost) Leaving will not save much - we will still pay EU to trade as Norway already do - we wont be able to trade with US (as Obama has already tried to explain) - We will be able to trade with others but can already! - and prices will go up and the economy will suffer! If we leave then yes we can keep out johnny foreigner! - and then what!? i did like the way the brexit defence minister on marr this morning tried to link it to both turkey and the nhs this morning..... only to be crushed by the chief exec giving the figures for how many EU doctors/durses there were working in the local hospital in her constiuency.... and saying if they left the hospital would not cope.... Funny how different people see things. I watched the Andrew Marr show this morning and to me the Chief executive of the NHS England Simon Stevens looked like he was constantly on the back foot. He consistently dodged Andrew Marr's direct questions on how an extra 3 million EU immigrants over the next 10 years would affect the NHS. When Andrew Marr told him the NHS Would benefit an instant windfall of a big share of the 10 billion saved on our EU membership fee, he dodged the question altogether and went off randomly talking about Mark Carney. Andrew Marr also pointed out to him that the number of NHS staff from the EU is small in comparison to Staff employed from outside of the EU (Pakistan, India, Bangladesh and so on). We are having to discriminate against and supress the number of Doctors and nurses who want to come here to work in our NHS from Countries like India and Bangladesh because of the open door we have to the EU. " Isn't it strange how when given an economic model every single Brexit camp follower tells you 'it's not possible to predict into the future'. But when it comes to population figures they can make them up as if there was no tomorrow. The Brexiteers population predictions are all based on ifs, buts and what ifs.... oh look that's exactly what they said about all those economic models that they disagreed with. It's all ifs and buts and maybes and you have absolutely no way of predicting the future - according to your own rules about making predictions, you and your UKIP masters are making it up. Your point about not being able to recruit people from outside the EU flies completely in the face of the truth. You know that the UK's Australian style points based immigration system applied to those workers enables the UK to let in as many or as few highly qualified workers as the UK wants. That's the bit of the system that accounts for far more than half of the long term immigration to this country each year. Of course if you increase the number that are allowed in by that channel and stop EU migrants you are still getting far more people coming in than you want (well over 300,000). When are you going to tell the people from non-EU countries that you want to cut their immigration quota off too? I must congratulate you on one thing though - at long last you've abandoned that phoney figure for the UK's contribution to the EU and at long last have quoted something that is vaguely near the truth. Well done. | |||
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"so asking as a neutral .... was the defence minister guilty of promoting the R-egress campaign of project paranoia by telling bear faced lies on the turkish issue?" David Cameron has been a very vocal supporter of Turkey joining the EU in the past, and he has spoken publically about it many times in the past. www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8su2vCq950 | |||
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"so asking as a neutral .... was the defence minister guilty of promoting the R-egress campaign of project paranoia by telling bear faced lies on the turkish issue? David Cameron has been a very vocal supporter of Turkey joining the EU in the past, and he has spoken publically about it many times in the past. www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8su2vCq950" was hoping for an answer to my question to be honest but hey ho | |||
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"Best way to get back control of our fishing industry is to leave the EU altogether. Then we can help ordinary workers in the British fishing industry by reclaiming our independent and sovereign right to a 200 mile zone of British territorial waters around the UK which only British boats will be able to fish in. Then we won't have to engage in a pointless exercise on trying to reform the EU common fisheries policy. The EU is opposed to any kind of reform and cannot be reformed. The only people who are opposed to any kind of reform and cannot be reformed seem to be Brexit supporters. The total value of landings by the UK fleet (at home and abroad) was £861 million in 2014. This is a real-terms rise of 33% since 2004, but a real-terms fall of 3% since 1994. You can check that in the sea fisheries statistics - they keep a copy in the house of commons library. That hardly fits with the picture you try to paint of an industry that's been destroyed by membership of the EU. Before you send your gunboats out to take control of all that water, do make sure you explain to UK fishermen who won't be able to fish on the other side of the limit even though they historically have done. Don't forget that the fish don't know about this line you'll draw on the water. Now if you'd mentioned conservation I might have had to really strain myself and agree with you, but you didn't all you care about is snatching away territory. Are you going to be the one who tells the Brixham beam trawlers who export 80% of their catch to France, Spain and Italy that they'll just have to put up with tariffs (between 8 and 25%) on their catch and tough if that makes them too expensive to sell? Brexit tax- no thanks, very kind of you to offer it but you can keep it." Lets have a look at what has been happening in Weymouth shall we. I know Weymouth very well as i holiday there for a week most summers and i know many people there. Weymouth now has a charter boat angling fleet of 18 full time vessels, now just a few years ago that fleet was 30 vessels, it is an industry that is in clear decline and UK fishermen are being put out of business by the EU. There was an EU regulation that came in last December 2015, which from 1st January 2016 put a total ban on any angler fishing out of weymouth catching any Bass and taking one home for their dinner. The EU Quota in the part of the channel near Weymouth for our commercial fishermen is 7% of the cod caught, while the french get 78% of the cod caught. As you can imagine the people of Weymouth are getting very fed up with the EU, as are many people all over the country in fishing towns and villages. | |||
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"You've gotta admire that many Turks wanting to travel to the UK when it was only a friendly " Those of a nervous disposition will be counting each one of them on the way out to make sure they all go where they belong. A long sleepless night is predicted for some. | |||
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" it's basically turning into two ref... if economy is the biggest issue, remain will win..... if immigration is the biggest issue, leave will win Indeed - the NHS is a red herring (needs a complete separate debate about what people want and how much it will cost) Leaving will not save much - we will still pay EU to trade as Norway already do - we wont be able to trade with US (as Obama has already tried to explain) - We will be able to trade with others but can already! - and prices will go up and the economy will suffer! If we leave then yes we can keep out johnny foreigner! - and then what!? i did like the way the brexit defence minister on marr this morning tried to link it to both turkey and the nhs this morning..... only to be crushed by the chief exec giving the figures for how many EU doctors/durses there were working in the local hospital in her constiuency.... and saying if they left the hospital would not cope.... Funny how different people see things. I watched the Andrew Marr show this morning and to me the Chief executive of the NHS England Simon Stevens looked like he was constantly on the back foot. He consistently dodged Andrew Marr's direct questions on how an extra 3 million EU immigrants over the next 10 years would affect the NHS. When Andrew Marr told him the NHS Would benefit an instant windfall of a big share of the 10 billion saved on our EU membership fee, he dodged the question altogether and went off randomly talking about Mark Carney. Andrew Marr also pointed out to him that the number of NHS staff from the EU is small in comparison to Staff employed from outside of the EU (Pakistan, India, Bangladesh and so on). We are having to discriminate against and supress the number of Doctors and nurses who want to come here to work in our NHS from Countries like India and Bangladesh because of the open door we have to the EU. Isn't it strange how when given an economic model every single Brexit camp follower tells you 'it's not possible to predict into the future'. But when it comes to population figures they can make them up as if there was no tomorrow. The Brexiteers population predictions are all based on ifs, buts and what ifs.... oh look that's exactly what they said about all those economic models that they disagreed with. It's all ifs and buts and maybes and you have absolutely no way of predicting the future - according to your own rules about making predictions, you and your UKIP masters are making it up. Your point about not being able to recruit people from outside the EU flies completely in the face of the truth. You know that the UK's Australian style points based immigration system applied to those workers enables the UK to let in as many or as few highly qualified workers as the UK wants. That's the bit of the system that accounts for far more than half of the long term immigration to this country each year. Of course if you increase the number that are allowed in by that channel and stop EU migrants you are still getting far more people coming in than you want (well over 300,000). When are you going to tell the people from non-EU countries that you want to cut their immigration quota off too? I must congratulate you on one thing though - at long last you've abandoned that phoney figure for the UK's contribution to the EU and at long last have quoted something that is vaguely near the truth. Well done. " Keep on looking through those Britain Stronger in (BSE) campaign rose tinted spectacles won't you. | |||
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"You've gotta admire that many Turks wanting to travel to the UK when it was only a friendly " What was the score again? Oh yeah 2-1 win for England. | |||
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"Very well put. I am voting out. " | |||
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" it's basically turning into two ref... if economy is the biggest issue, remain will win..... if immigration is the biggest issue, leave will win Indeed - the NHS is a red herring (needs a complete separate debate about what people want and how much it will cost) Leaving will not save much - we will still pay EU to trade as Norway already do - we wont be able to trade with US (as Obama has already tried to explain) - We will be able to trade with others but can already! - and prices will go up and the economy will suffer! If we leave then yes we can keep out johnny foreigner! - and then what!? i did like the way the brexit defence minister on marr this morning tried to link it to both turkey and the nhs this morning..... only to be crushed by the chief exec giving the figures for how many EU doctors/durses there were working in the local hospital in her constiuency.... and saying if they left the hospital would not cope.... Funny how different people see things. I watched the Andrew Marr show this morning and to me the Chief executive of the NHS England Simon Stevens looked like he was constantly on the back foot. He consistently dodged Andrew Marr's direct questions on how an extra 3 million EU immigrants over the next 10 years would affect the NHS. When Andrew Marr told him the NHS Would benefit an instant windfall of a big share of the 10 billion saved on our EU membership fee, he dodged the question altogether and went off randomly talking about Mark Carney. Andrew Marr also pointed out to him that the number of NHS staff from the EU is small in comparison to Staff employed from outside of the EU (Pakistan, India, Bangladesh and so on). We are having to discriminate against and supress the number of Doctors and nurses who want to come here to work in our NHS from Countries like India and Bangladesh because of the open door we have to the EU. Isn't it strange how when given an economic model every single Brexit camp follower tells you 'it's not possible to predict into the future'. But when it comes to population figures they can make them up as if there was no tomorrow. The Brexiteers population predictions are all based on ifs, buts and what ifs.... oh look that's exactly what they said about all those economic models that they disagreed with. It's all ifs and buts and maybes and you have absolutely no way of predicting the future - according to your own rules about making predictions, you and your UKIP masters are making it up. Your point about not being able to recruit people from outside the EU flies completely in the face of the truth. You know that the UK's Australian style points based immigration system applied to those workers enables the UK to let in as many or as few highly qualified workers as the UK wants. That's the bit of the system that accounts for far more than half of the long term immigration to this country each year. Of course if you increase the number that are allowed in by that channel and stop EU migrants you are still getting far more people coming in than you want (well over 300,000). When are you going to tell the people from non-EU countries that you want to cut their immigration quota off too? I must congratulate you on one thing though - at long last you've abandoned that phoney figure for the UK's contribution to the EU and at long last have quoted something that is vaguely near the truth. Well done. Keep on looking through those Britain Stronger in (BSE) campaign rose tinted spectacles won't you. "Nothing is rose tinted in this debate, except your fantasy world view which is always entertaining if shifty. Keep working on justifying the brexit tax we'll all end up paying if the worst possible outcome occurs. | |||
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"You know there's not many people with any faith in capitalism on here, I mean I'm the anti capitalist but Jesus at least I'd acknowledge it's ability to cope with regulations....I mean the whole point of business is to get it to work for the benefit of the citizens. Now we seem to be caring more about making it as easy possible regardless of the problems it's causing, it's exactly what went wrong in the banking sector, it seems like none of the other problems matter providing trading is at maximum levels... Well that's just dandy but. We've just spent the last twenty years making it as easy as possible for businesses, lowering company tax's, pushing down interest rates, airport and port expansion, multi level global trade deals, ridiculously cheap labour and a complete lack of environmental legislation or penalties for breaches.... And how's it turned out.... Fucked up. So please please please spare me this utter bollocks of free trade and capital enlightening the world and making us all prance around like spring lambs while basking in its glow!!!....I hate to point this out but Spain, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Portugal, they've had all this for 15 years now and are completely fucked. . . The mindset should be, how do we get commerce to work best for us.. Not how easy can I make it for commerce and let's hope it trickles down... because people were feed this trickle down economic mantra for years by Thatcher and Reagan and quite frankly it sounded like it was bollocks then and now it's just proven bollocks but still regurgitated while discussing trade deals.... I mean come on... Albania what the fuck are you doing bringing Albania into a free trade block, they import fuck all because there piss poor and export car criminals, drug gangs, sex traffickers and.... Cheap labour
I get the economy argument from the remain side but it's like people are afraid to do anything but cling to the status quo.
It's an out vote from me. And everyone I've spoken to says the same. But it seems to be taboo to admit you want out x
I'm an in person , seems I car about the welfare of all humans not just UK born ones
The world is in strife, the UK is wealthy and knowledgeable I feel we should at least aim for human unity whist still helping the tribespeople indulge in their insular identities
Its not a case of UK prosperity my perspective it will do well regardless of decision
I don't want to be associated with the fuck you I'm OK point of view
The UK has problems they are the same ones shared by humanity across Europe and across the world because we contain humans
Head in sand tribalism is very protective of some humans but I care no more or no less for another UK human than I do a European or an African or Indian
The world has some big problems arising soon , population, energy , food , climate, disease, poverty wars and inequality
Banding into insular tribal my mate or my family units is petty and trivial and will not help with the large picture
For that humans need to work together or at least strive towards such ends even if futile xxx
" | |||
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" Why will businesses struggle they already have to pay the surcharges put in place by the EU when we leave the the EU the smallest of businesses who trade with the EU will immediately have a boost as they will no longer have to charge VAT on their goods. In addition they will not have to make VAT returns allowing them to concentrate on growing their business rather than gathering tax for EU fat cats. You are joking right? you don't seriously believe that the UK government is going to give up 20% of almost all retail sales. I am talking about UK businesses who are not vat registered have to charge vat when they trade with the EU. That adds another level of accounting into their system" What s lot of fiscal incompetence! ....but it is entertaining nevertheless | |||
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"Best way to get back control of our fishing industry is to leave the EU altogether. Then we can help ordinary workers in the British fishing industry by reclaiming our independent and sovereign right to a 200 mile zone of British territorial waters around the UK which only British boats will be able to fish in. Then we won't have to engage in a pointless exercise on trying to reform the EU common fisheries policy. The EU is opposed to any kind of reform and cannot be reformed. The only people who are opposed to any kind of reform and cannot be reformed seem to be Brexit supporters. The total value of landings by the UK fleet (at home and abroad) was £861 million in 2014. This is a real-terms rise of 33% since 2004, but a real-terms fall of 3% since 1994. You can check that in the sea fisheries statistics - they keep a copy in the house of commons library. That hardly fits with the picture you try to paint of an industry that's been destroyed by membership of the EU. Before you send your gunboats out to take control of all that water, do make sure you explain to UK fishermen who won't be able to fish on the other side of the limit even though they historically have done. Don't forget that the fish don't know about this line you'll draw on the water. Now if you'd mentioned conservation I might have had to really strain myself and agree with you, but you didn't all you care about is snatching away territory. Are you going to be the one who tells the Brixham beam trawlers who export 80% of their catch to France, Spain and Italy that they'll just have to put up with tariffs (between 8 and 25%) on their catch and tough if that makes them too expensive to sell? Brexit tax- no thanks, very kind of you to offer it but you can keep it. Lets have a look at what has been happening in Weymouth shall we. I know Weymouth very well as i holiday there for a week most summers and i know many people there. Weymouth now has a charter boat angling fleet of 18 full time vessels, now just a few years ago that fleet was 30 vessels, it is an industry that is in clear decline and UK fishermen are being put out of business by the EU. There was an EU regulation that came in last December 2015, which from 1st January 2016 put a total ban on any angler fishing out of weymouth catching any Bass and taking one home for their dinner. The EU Quota in the part of the channel near Weymouth for our commercial fishermen is 7% of the cod caught, while the french get 78% of the cod caught. As you can imagine the people of Weymouth are getting very fed up with the EU, as are many people all over the country in fishing towns and villages. " right ... i just pinged a message off to an old college friend who works as an independent fisheries inspector ... i cut and paste your comment above ad verbatum and asked his opinion on it's accuracy ..... i just this momenet recieved this reply .... "There is a situation with bass but in this particular case the way it's been implemented is via a UK Regulation..... The Cod situation is a lot more complicated and takes in a much larger area than just Weymouth The U.K. Authorities distributes the quota - not the EU. And there are different sectors to distribute the quota - under 10m vessels, over 10m vessels, different gear sectors etc. The quota is also in the hands of Producer Organisations and private companies. I could go into to great detail but it's totally inaccurate." | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Best way to get back control of our fishing industry is to leave the EU altogether. Then we can help ordinary workers in the British fishing industry by reclaiming our independent and sovereign right to a 200 mile zone of British territorial waters around the UK which only British boats will be able to fish in. Then we won't have to engage in a pointless exercise on trying to reform the EU common fisheries policy. The EU is opposed to any kind of reform and cannot be reformed. The only people who are opposed to any kind of reform and cannot be reformed seem to be Brexit supporters. The total value of landings by the UK fleet (at home and abroad) was £861 million in 2014. This is a real-terms rise of 33% since 2004, but a real-terms fall of 3% since 1994. You can check that in the sea fisheries statistics - they keep a copy in the house of commons library. That hardly fits with the picture you try to paint of an industry that's been destroyed by membership of the EU. Before you send your gunboats out to take control of all that water, do make sure you explain to UK fishermen who won't be able to fish on the other side of the limit even though they historically have done. Don't forget that the fish don't know about this line you'll draw on the water. Now if you'd mentioned conservation I might have had to really strain myself and agree with you, but you didn't all you care about is snatching away territory. Are you going to be the one who tells the Brixham beam trawlers who export 80% of their catch to France, Spain and Italy that they'll just have to put up with tariffs (between 8 and 25%) on their catch and tough if that makes them too expensive to sell? Brexit tax- no thanks, very kind of you to offer it but you can keep it. Lets have a look at what has been happening in Weymouth shall we. I know Weymouth very well as i holiday there for a week most summers and i know many people there. Weymouth now has a charter boat angling fleet of 18 full time vessels, now just a few years ago that fleet was 30 vessels, it is an industry that is in clear decline and UK fishermen are being put out of business by the EU. There was an EU regulation that came in last December 2015, which from 1st January 2016 put a total ban on any angler fishing out of weymouth catching any Bass and taking one home for their dinner. The EU Quota in the part of the channel near Weymouth for our commercial fishermen is 7% of the cod caught, while the french get 78% of the cod caught. As you can imagine the people of Weymouth are getting very fed up with the EU, as are many people all over the country in fishing towns and villages. " Conservation of the fish stocks is far more important than poor old you not being allowed to land one sea bass. But fear not the EU has been listening to you and between July and December you can grab that fish before it goes extinct - just in time for Sunday dinner during your summer holiday. I'd rather you came up with sensible comments about conserving the stock like the bass anglers sport fishing society - they'd want limits on the minimum landing size of catch and to limit fishing to hook and line. At least they have a constructive and scientific approach as opposed to a spoilt complaint. Try to do something to conserve the fish other than whingeing. But of course of you can't have everything your way blame it on the EU... oh and then fuck the species that are on the way to extinction. As for cod, The Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Defra) said the cod quota would rise by 15% and that for English Channel plaice would double. The limits for 2016 were set at the annual EU Fisheries and Agriculture Council in Brussels. Fisheries Minister George Eustice said the agreement was a "great result" for British fishermen. There you go, a great result for British fishermen. Go on you - talk down our country again. I'm not expecting you to answer how you expect the Brixham trawler fleet to get on with their exports if we Brexit. You're concerned about 1 recreational sea bass for your dinner, they're concerned about the largest catches by value landed in England. Keep on promising them that Brexit tax | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Lets have a look at what has been happening in Weymouth shall we. I know Weymouth very well as i holiday there for a week most summers and i know many people there. Weymouth now has a charter boat angling fleet of 18 full time vessels, now just a few years ago that fleet was 30 vessels, it is an industry that is in clear decline and UK fishermen are being put out of business by the EU. There was an EU regulation that came in last December 2015, which from 1st January 2016 put a total ban on any angler fishing out of weymouth catching any Bass and taking one home for their dinner. The EU Quota in the part of the channel near Weymouth for our commercial fishermen is 7% of the cod caught, while the french get 78% of the cod caught. As you can imagine the people of Weymouth are getting very fed up with the EU, as are many people all over the country in fishing towns and villages. right ... i just pinged a message off to an old college friend who works as an independent fisheries inspector ... i cut and paste your comment above ad verbatum and asked his opinion on it's accuracy ..... i just this momenet recieved this reply .... "There is a situation with bass but in this particular case the way it's been implemented is via a UK Regulation..... The Cod situation is a lot more complicated and takes in a much larger area than just Weymouth The U.K. Authorities distributes the quota - not the EU. And there are different sectors to distribute the quota - under 10m vessels, over 10m vessels, different gear sectors etc. The quota is also in the hands of Producer Organisations and private companies. I could go into to great detail but it's totally inaccurate."" Thank goodness for some real expert input on this from a neutral. Plus it has the benefit of saving you from my reminiscences of when I lived in Weymouth and the trouble we had with the grockles.  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Best way to get back control of our fishing industry is to leave the EU altogether. Then we can help ordinary workers in the British fishing industry by reclaiming our independent and sovereign right to a 200 mile zone of British territorial waters around the UK which only British boats will be able to fish in. Then we won't have to engage in a pointless exercise on trying to reform the EU common fisheries policy. The EU is opposed to any kind of reform and cannot be reformed. The only people who are opposed to any kind of reform and cannot be reformed seem to be Brexit supporters. The total value of landings by the UK fleet (at home and abroad) was £861 million in 2014. This is a real-terms rise of 33% since 2004, but a real-terms fall of 3% since 1994. You can check that in the sea fisheries statistics - they keep a copy in the house of commons library. That hardly fits with the picture you try to paint of an industry that's been destroyed by membership of the EU. Before you send your gunboats out to take control of all that water, do make sure you explain to UK fishermen who won't be able to fish on the other side of the limit even though they historically have done. Don't forget that the fish don't know about this line you'll draw on the water. Now if you'd mentioned conservation I might have had to really strain myself and agree with you, but you didn't all you care about is snatching away territory. Are you going to be the one who tells the Brixham beam trawlers who export 80% of their catch to France, Spain and Italy that they'll just have to put up with tariffs (between 8 and 25%) on their catch and tough if that makes them too expensive to sell? Brexit tax- no thanks, very kind of you to offer it but you can keep it. Lets have a look at what has been happening in Weymouth shall we. I know Weymouth very well as i holiday there for a week most summers and i know many people there. Weymouth now has a charter boat angling fleet of 18 full time vessels, now just a few years ago that fleet was 30 vessels, it is an industry that is in clear decline and UK fishermen are being put out of business by the EU. There was an EU regulation that came in last December 2015, which from 1st January 2016 put a total ban on any angler fishing out of weymouth catching any Bass and taking one home for their dinner. The EU Quota in the part of the channel near Weymouth for our commercial fishermen is 7% of the cod caught, while the french get 78% of the cod caught. As you can imagine the people of Weymouth are getting very fed up with the EU, as are many people all over the country in fishing towns and villages. right ... i just pinged a message off to an old college friend who works as an independent fisheries inspector ... i cut and paste your comment above ad verbatum and asked his opinion on it's accuracy ..... i just this momenet recieved this reply .... "There is a situation with bass but in this particular case the way it's been implemented is via a UK Regulation..... The Cod situation is a lot more complicated and takes in a much larger area than just Weymouth The U.K. Authorities distributes the quota - not the EU. And there are different sectors to distribute the quota - under 10m vessels, over 10m vessels, different gear sectors etc. The quota is also in the hands of Producer Organisations and private companies. I could go into to great detail but it's totally inaccurate."" Our fishing industry laws and Quotas come direct from Brussels. British law is subservient to EU law in this case, that is in part what this whole EU referendum is about, taking back control of our own laws and the ability to govern ourselves again. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Lets have a look at what has been happening in Weymouth shall we. I know Weymouth very well as i holiday there for a week most summers and i know many people there. Weymouth now has a charter boat angling fleet of 18 full time vessels, now just a few years ago that fleet was 30 vessels, it is an industry that is in clear decline and UK fishermen are being put out of business by the EU. There was an EU regulation that came in last December 2015, which from 1st January 2016 put a total ban on any angler fishing out of weymouth catching any Bass and taking one home for their dinner. The EU Quota in the part of the channel near Weymouth for our commercial fishermen is 7% of the cod caught, while the french get 78% of the cod caught. As you can imagine the people of Weymouth are getting very fed up with the EU, as are many people all over the country in fishing towns and villages. right ... i just pinged a message off to an old college friend who works as an independent fisheries inspector ... i cut and paste your comment above ad verbatum and asked his opinion on it's accuracy ..... i just this momenet recieved this reply .... "There is a situation with bass but in this particular case the way it's been implemented is via a UK Regulation..... The Cod situation is a lot more complicated and takes in a much larger area than just Weymouth The U.K. Authorities distributes the quota - not the EU. And there are different sectors to distribute the quota - under 10m vessels, over 10m vessels, different gear sectors etc. The quota is also in the hands of Producer Organisations and private companies. I could go into to great detail but it's totally inaccurate." Our fishing industry laws and Quotas come direct from Brussels. British law is subservient to EU law in this case, that is in part what this whole EU referendum is about, taking back control of our own laws and the ability to govern ourselves again. " wrong | |||
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"Out is worse. The exit campaign leaders state that all EU people here already can stay. So the same number competing for jobs and resources still. Many businesses will struggle. Some will relocate and others go bust. Total lose for ordinary people. Less tax revenue in the UK will mean services you rely on will be cut even more. EU phone roaming charges are scrapped next year but we will face huge fees again instead. A new immigrant arrives in UK every 4 seconds and that is acceptable you think! what is the division line between an ordinary person and one that can manage either way no problem? ." Worse than cancer. Someone dies of cancer every 3 seconds globaly. And cancer research costs us individually way way way more than people coming in from the eu as a country | |||
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"Best way to get back control of our fishing industry is to leave the EU altogether. Then we can help ordinary workers in the British fishing industry by reclaiming our independent and sovereign right to a 200 mile zone of British territorial waters around the UK which only British boats will be able to fish in. Then we won't have to engage in a pointless exercise on trying to reform the EU common fisheries policy. The EU is opposed to any kind of reform and cannot be reformed. The only people who are opposed to any kind of reform and cannot be reformed seem to be Brexit supporters. The total value of landings by the UK fleet (at home and abroad) was £861 million in 2014. This is a real-terms rise of 33% since 2004, but a real-terms fall of 3% since 1994. You can check that in the sea fisheries statistics - they keep a copy in the house of commons library. That hardly fits with the picture you try to paint of an industry that's been destroyed by membership of the EU. Before you send your gunboats out to take control of all that water, do make sure you explain to UK fishermen who won't be able to fish on the other side of the limit even though they historically have done. Don't forget that the fish don't know about this line you'll draw on the water. Now if you'd mentioned conservation I might have had to really strain myself and agree with you, but you didn't all you care about is snatching away territory. Are you going to be the one who tells the Brixham beam trawlers who export 80% of their catch to France, Spain and Italy that they'll just have to put up with tariffs (between 8 and 25%) on their catch and tough if that makes them too expensive to sell? Brexit tax- no thanks, very kind of you to offer it but you can keep it. Lets have a look at what has been happening in Weymouth shall we. I know Weymouth very well as i holiday there for a week most summers and i know many people there. Weymouth now has a charter boat angling fleet of 18 full time vessels, now just a few years ago that fleet was 30 vessels, it is an industry that is in clear decline and UK fishermen are being put out of business by the EU. There was an EU regulation that came in last December 2015, which from 1st January 2016 put a total ban on any angler fishing out of weymouth catching any Bass and taking one home for their dinner. The EU Quota in the part of the channel near Weymouth for our commercial fishermen is 7% of the cod caught, while the french get 78% of the cod caught. As you can imagine the people of Weymouth are getting very fed up with the EU, as are many people all over the country in fishing towns and villages. Conservation of the fish stocks is far more important than poor old you not being allowed to land one sea bass. But fear not the EU has been listening to you and between July and December you can grab that fish before it goes extinct - just in time for Sunday dinner during your summer holiday. I'd rather you came up with sensible comments about conserving the stock like the bass anglers sport fishing society - they'd want limits on the minimum landing size of catch and to limit fishing to hook and line. At least they have a constructive and scientific approach as opposed to a spoilt complaint. Try to do something to conserve the fish other than whingeing. But of course of you can't have everything your way blame it on the EU... oh and then fuck the species that are on the way to extinction. As for cod, The Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Defra) said the cod quota would rise by 15% and that for English Channel plaice would double. The limits for 2016 were set at the annual EU Fisheries and Agriculture Council in Brussels. Fisheries Minister George Eustice said the agreement was a "great result" for British fishermen. There you go, a great result for British fishermen. Go on you - talk down our country again. I'm not expecting you to answer how you expect the Brixham trawler fleet to get on with their exports if we Brexit. You're concerned about 1 recreational sea bass for your dinner, they're concerned about the largest catches by value landed in England. Keep on promising them that Brexit tax "Its the Remain side who keep talking down Britain, according to the likes of you Britain is just not good enough on its own or can never be capable of governing itself without being constantly molly coddled and interfered with by Brussels. While France continues to get 78% of the cod Quota and Britain only gets 7% of the cod Quota in that area of the channel i suppose you'll be happy to continue to see the Weymouth fishing fleet continue to shrink from 18 vessels down to Zero when they won't have a fishing fleet at all as the years go by (as i said its already shrunk from 30 to 18 in the last few years). Then France and Spain can have 100% of the fishing Quota once the EU has destroyed the British fishing industry altogeher. The Fatcat Pen pushing Eurocrats in Brussels won't care either though, they will go to any lenghts to push on with their failing EU project. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Best way to get back control of our fishing industry is to leave the EU altogether. Then we can help ordinary workers in the British fishing industry by reclaiming our independent and sovereign right to a 200 mile zone of British territorial waters around the UK which only British boats will be able to fish in. Then we won't have to engage in a pointless exercise on trying to reform the EU common fisheries policy. The EU is opposed to any kind of reform and cannot be reformed. The only people who are opposed to any kind of reform and cannot be reformed seem to be Brexit supporters. The total value of landings by the UK fleet (at home and abroad) was £861 million in 2014. This is a real-terms rise of 33% since 2004, but a real-terms fall of 3% since 1994. You can check that in the sea fisheries statistics - they keep a copy in the house of commons library. That hardly fits with the picture you try to paint of an industry that's been destroyed by membership of the EU. Before you send your gunboats out to take control of all that water, do make sure you explain to UK fishermen who won't be able to fish on the other side of the limit even though they historically have done. Don't forget that the fish don't know about this line you'll draw on the water. Now if you'd mentioned conservation I might have had to really strain myself and agree with you, but you didn't all you care about is snatching away territory. Are you going to be the one who tells the Brixham beam trawlers who export 80% of their catch to France, Spain and Italy that they'll just have to put up with tariffs (between 8 and 25%) on their catch and tough if that makes them too expensive to sell? Brexit tax- no thanks, very kind of you to offer it but you can keep it. Lets have a look at what has been happening in Weymouth shall we. I know Weymouth very well as i holiday there for a week most summers and i know many people there. Weymouth now has a charter boat angling fleet of 18 full time vessels, now just a few years ago that fleet was 30 vessels, it is an industry that is in clear decline and UK fishermen are being put out of business by the EU. There was an EU regulation that came in last December 2015, which from 1st January 2016 put a total ban on any angler fishing out of weymouth catching any Bass and taking one home for their dinner. The EU Quota in the part of the channel near Weymouth for our commercial fishermen is 7% of the cod caught, while the french get 78% of the cod caught. As you can imagine the people of Weymouth are getting very fed up with the EU, as are many people all over the country in fishing towns and villages. Conservation of the fish stocks is far more important than poor old you not being allowed to land one sea bass. But fear not the EU has been listening to you and between July and December you can grab that fish before it goes extinct - just in time for Sunday dinner during your summer holiday. I'd rather you came up with sensible comments about conserving the stock like the bass anglers sport fishing society - they'd want limits on the minimum landing size of catch and to limit fishing to hook and line. At least they have a constructive and scientific approach as opposed to a spoilt complaint. Try to do something to conserve the fish other than whingeing. But of course of you can't have everything your way blame it on the EU... oh and then fuck the species that are on the way to extinction. As for cod, The Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Defra) said the cod quota would rise by 15% and that for English Channel plaice would double. The limits for 2016 were set at the annual EU Fisheries and Agriculture Council in Brussels. Fisheries Minister George Eustice said the agreement was a "great result" for British fishermen. There you go, a great result for British fishermen. Go on you - talk down our country again. I'm not expecting you to answer how you expect the Brixham trawler fleet to get on with their exports if we Brexit. You're concerned about 1 recreational sea bass for your dinner, they're concerned about the largest catches by value landed in England. Keep on promising them that Brexit tax
Its the Remain side who keep talking down Britain, according to the likes of you Britain is just not good enough on its own or can never be capable of governing itself without being constantly molly coddled and interfered with by Brussels. While France continues to get 78% of the cod Quota and Britain only gets 7% of the cod Quota in that area of the channel i suppose you'll be happy to continue to see the Weymouth fishing fleet continue to shrink from 18 vessels down to Zero when they won't have a fishing fleet at all as the years go by (as i said its already shrunk from 30 to 18 in the last few years). Then France and Spain can have 100% of the fishing Quota once the EU has destroyed the British fishing industry altogeher. The Fatcat Pen pushing Eurocrats in Brussels won't care either though, they will go to any lenghts to push on with their failing EU project. "Everytime you mention pen pushing fat cats I think of Farage and Boris. Someone kindly went to the trouble to get an independent expert to review your comments and they were wrong. There's no use you ranting and blaming the EU for something it's not responsible for. You can also check the house of commons library for UK and European Sea bass conservation measures where it clearly says: “The UK Government will continue to push for effective EU-wide conservation measures that will ensure the stock recovers and becomes sustainable by working with the Commission and interested Member States. We will consider the need for any further domestic management of bass in the light of these European discussions.” So let me see, the house of commons library says it's the UK government pushing for regulation, and an independent sea fisheries expert says it's UK regulation. Basically once again you're blaming the EU for something that the UK government did. If I didn't know better I'd say you're telling fibs again. | |||
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"Staying in EU is worse. Yes EU people already here can stay as they came here legally so that is only right, but going onwards from June 23rd, when we leave we can control our borders and immigration much better to a sensible level so we can plan for future infrastructure spending properly. This will benefit ordinary working class folk when public services become less strained and start to improve. Small business and entrepreneurs will benefit when they can cut costs and EU red tape. May result in more jobs being created so a total win for ordinary people. More tax revenue in the UK when we make an instant saving of billions on our EU membership fee. That money can be redirected into the Nhs, hospitals, GP surgeries, schools and education, new roads, railways and bridges, etc. The EU TTIP deal is also a very real threat to the Nhs. More and better trade links with the rest of the world beyond the borders of the EU where we currently have a trade surplus which is growing each year. In contrast the Euro zone is stagnating and we have a trade deficit with the EU. In general people feel better about their way of life and are happier when they live under a free and democratic system. The EU is fundamentally undemocratic which is why we are seeing a rise in support for anti EU parties at elections all over Europe. Many people all over Europe are not happy with the EU and it is failing them with the ongoing Eurozone crisis, the ongoing migration crisis and high levels of unemployment in many EU countries. " more lies from this member ..stop peddling bullshit the only beneficiaries from an out vote will be farage and bojo .. | |||
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"Best way to get back control of our fishing industry is to leave the EU altogether. Then we can help ordinary workers in the British fishing industry by reclaiming our independent and sovereign right to a 200 mile zone of British territorial waters around the UK which only British boats will be able to fish in. Then we won't have to engage in a pointless exercise on trying to reform the EU common fisheries policy. The EU is opposed to any kind of reform and cannot be reformed. The only people who are opposed to any kind of reform and cannot be reformed seem to be Brexit supporters. The total value of landings by the UK fleet (at home and abroad) was £861 million in 2014. This is a real-terms rise of 33% since 2004, but a real-terms fall of 3% since 1994. You can check that in the sea fisheries statistics - they keep a copy in the house of commons library. That hardly fits with the picture you try to paint of an industry that's been destroyed by membership of the EU. Before you send your gunboats out to take control of all that water, do make sure you explain to UK fishermen who won't be able to fish on the other side of the limit even though they historically have done. Don't forget that the fish don't know about this line you'll draw on the water. Now if you'd mentioned conservation I might have had to really strain myself and agree with you, but you didn't all you care about is snatching away territory. Are you going to be the one who tells the Brixham beam trawlers who export 80% of their catch to France, Spain and Italy that they'll just have to put up with tariffs (between 8 and 25%) on their catch and tough if that makes them too expensive to sell? Brexit tax- no thanks, very kind of you to offer it but you can keep it. Lets have a look at what has been happening in Weymouth shall we. I know Weymouth very well as i holiday there for a week most summers and i know many people there. Weymouth now has a charter boat angling fleet of 18 full time vessels, now just a few years ago that fleet was 30 vessels, it is an industry that is in clear decline and UK fishermen are being put out of business by the EU. There was an EU regulation that came in last December 2015, which from 1st January 2016 put a total ban on any angler fishing out of weymouth catching any Bass and taking one home for their dinner. The EU Quota in the part of the channel near Weymouth for our commercial fishermen is 7% of the cod caught, while the french get 78% of the cod caught. As you can imagine the people of Weymouth are getting very fed up with the EU, as are many people all over the country in fishing towns and villages. Conservation of the fish stocks is far more important than poor old you not being allowed to land one sea bass. But fear not the EU has been listening to you and between July and December you can grab that fish before it goes extinct - just in time for Sunday dinner during your summer holiday. I'd rather you came up with sensible comments about conserving the stock like the bass anglers sport fishing society - they'd want limits on the minimum landing size of catch and to limit fishing to hook and line. At least they have a constructive and scientific approach as opposed to a spoilt complaint. Try to do something to conserve the fish other than whingeing. But of course of you can't have everything your way blame it on the EU... oh and then fuck the species that are on the way to extinction. As for cod, The Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Defra) said the cod quota would rise by 15% and that for English Channel plaice would double. The limits for 2016 were set at the annual EU Fisheries and Agriculture Council in Brussels. Fisheries Minister George Eustice said the agreement was a "great result" for British fishermen. There you go, a great result for British fishermen. Go on you - talk down our country again. I'm not expecting you to answer how you expect the Brixham trawler fleet to get on with their exports if we Brexit. You're concerned about 1 recreational sea bass for your dinner, they're concerned about the largest catches by value landed in England. Keep on promising them that Brexit tax
Its the Remain side who keep talking down Britain, according to the likes of you Britain is just not good enough on its own or can never be capable of governing itself without being constantly molly coddled and interfered with by Brussels. While France continues to get 78% of the cod Quota and Britain only gets 7% of the cod Quota in that area of the channel i suppose you'll be happy to continue to see the Weymouth fishing fleet continue to shrink from 18 vessels down to Zero when they won't have a fishing fleet at all as the years go by (as i said its already shrunk from 30 to 18 in the last few years). Then France and Spain can have 100% of the fishing Quota once the EU has destroyed the British fishing industry altogeher. The Fatcat Pen pushing Eurocrats in Brussels won't care either though, they will go to any lenghts to push on with their failing EU project.
Everytime you mention pen pushing fat cats I think of Farage and Boris.
Someone kindly went to the trouble to get an independent expert to review your comments and they were wrong. There's no use you ranting and blaming the EU for something it's not responsible for.
You can also check the house of commons library for UK and European Sea bass conservation measures where it clearly says: “The UK Government will continue to push for effective EU-wide conservation measures that will ensure the stock recovers and becomes sustainable by working with the Commission and interested Member States. We will consider the need for any further domestic management of bass in the light of these European discussions.”
So let me see, the house of commons library says it's the UK government pushing for regulation, and an independent sea fisheries expert says it's UK regulation.
Basically once again you're blaming the EU for something that the UK government did. If I didn't know better I'd say you're telling fibs again. " | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Staying in EU is worse. Yes EU people already here can stay as they came here legally so that is only right, but going onwards from June 23rd, when we leave we can control our borders and immigration much better to a sensible level so we can plan for future infrastructure spending properly. This will benefit ordinary working class folk when public services become less strained and start to improve. Small business and entrepreneurs will benefit when they can cut costs and EU red tape. May result in more jobs being created so a total win for ordinary people. More tax revenue in the UK when we make an instant saving of billions on our EU membership fee. That money can be redirected into the Nhs, hospitals, GP surgeries, schools and education, new roads, railways and bridges, etc. The EU TTIP deal is also a very real threat to the Nhs. More and better trade links with the rest of the world beyond the borders of the EU where we currently have a trade surplus which is growing each year. In contrast the Euro zone is stagnating and we have a trade deficit with the EU. In general people feel better about their way of life and are happier when they live under a free and democratic system. The EU is fundamentally undemocratic which is why we are seeing a rise in support for anti EU parties at elections all over Europe. Many people all over Europe are not happy with the EU and it is failing them with the ongoing Eurozone crisis, the ongoing migration crisis and high levels of unemployment in many EU countries. more lies from this member ..stop peddling bullshit the only beneficiaries from an out vote will be farage and bojo .." | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Best way to get back control of our fishing industry is to leave the EU altogether. Then we can help ordinary workers in the British fishing industry by reclaiming our independent and sovereign right to a 200 mile zone of British territorial waters around the UK which only British boats will be able to fish in. Then we won't have to engage in a pointless exercise on trying to reform the EU common fisheries policy. The EU is opposed to any kind of reform and cannot be reformed. The only people who are opposed to any kind of reform and cannot be reformed seem to be Brexit supporters. The total value of landings by the UK fleet (at home and abroad) was £861 million in 2014. This is a real-terms rise of 33% since 2004, but a real-terms fall of 3% since 1994. You can check that in the sea fisheries statistics - they keep a copy in the house of commons library. That hardly fits with the picture you try to paint of an industry that's been destroyed by membership of the EU. Before you send your gunboats out to take control of all that water, do make sure you explain to UK fishermen who won't be able to fish on the other side of the limit even though they historically have done. Don't forget that the fish don't know about this line you'll draw on the water. Now if you'd mentioned conservation I might have had to really strain myself and agree with you, but you didn't all you care about is snatching away territory. Are you going to be the one who tells the Brixham beam trawlers who export 80% of their catch to France, Spain and Italy that they'll just have to put up with tariffs (between 8 and 25%) on their catch and tough if that makes them too expensive to sell? Brexit tax- no thanks, very kind of you to offer it but you can keep it. Lets have a look at what has been happening in Weymouth shall we. I know Weymouth very well as i holiday there for a week most summers and i know many people there. Weymouth now has a charter boat angling fleet of 18 full time vessels, now just a few years ago that fleet was 30 vessels, it is an industry that is in clear decline and UK fishermen are being put out of business by the EU. There was an EU regulation that came in last December 2015, which from 1st January 2016 put a total ban on any angler fishing out of weymouth catching any Bass and taking one home for their dinner. The EU Quota in the part of the channel near Weymouth for our commercial fishermen is 7% of the cod caught, while the french get 78% of the cod caught. As you can imagine the people of Weymouth are getting very fed up with the EU, as are many people all over the country in fishing towns and villages. Conservation of the fish stocks is far more important than poor old you not being allowed to land one sea bass. But fear not the EU has been listening to you and between July and December you can grab that fish before it goes extinct - just in time for Sunday dinner during your summer holiday. I'd rather you came up with sensible comments about conserving the stock like the bass anglers sport fishing society - they'd want limits on the minimum landing size of catch and to limit fishing to hook and line. At least they have a constructive and scientific approach as opposed to a spoilt complaint. Try to do something to conserve the fish other than whingeing. But of course of you can't have everything your way blame it on the EU... oh and then fuck the species that are on the way to extinction. As for cod, The Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Defra) said the cod quota would rise by 15% and that for English Channel plaice would double. The limits for 2016 were set at the annual EU Fisheries and Agriculture Council in Brussels. Fisheries Minister George Eustice said the agreement was a "great result" for British fishermen. There you go, a great result for British fishermen. Go on you - talk down our country again. I'm not expecting you to answer how you expect the Brixham trawler fleet to get on with their exports if we Brexit. You're concerned about 1 recreational sea bass for your dinner, they're concerned about the largest catches by value landed in England. Keep on promising them that Brexit tax
Its the Remain side who keep talking down Britain, according to the likes of you Britain is just not good enough on its own or can never be capable of governing itself without being constantly molly coddled and interfered with by Brussels. While France continues to get 78% of the cod Quota and Britain only gets 7% of the cod Quota in that area of the channel i suppose you'll be happy to continue to see the Weymouth fishing fleet continue to shrink from 18 vessels down to Zero when they won't have a fishing fleet at all as the years go by (as i said its already shrunk from 30 to 18 in the last few years). Then France and Spain can have 100% of the fishing Quota once the EU has destroyed the British fishing industry altogeher. The Fatcat Pen pushing Eurocrats in Brussels won't care either though, they will go to any lenghts to push on with their failing EU project.
Everytime you mention pen pushing fat cats I think of Farage and Boris.
Someone kindly went to the trouble to get an independent expert to review your comments and they were wrong. There's no use you ranting and blaming the EU for something it's not responsible for.
You can also check the house of commons library for UK and European Sea bass conservation measures where it clearly says: “The UK Government will continue to push for effective EU-wide conservation measures that will ensure the stock recovers and becomes sustainable by working with the Commission and interested Member States. We will consider the need for any further domestic management of bass in the light of these European discussions.”
So let me see, the house of commons library says it's the UK government pushing for regulation, and an independent sea fisheries expert says it's UK regulation.
Basically once again you're blaming the EU for something that the UK government did. If I didn't know better I'd say you're telling fibs again. " | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Staying in EU is worse. Yes EU people already here can stay as they came here legally so that is only right, but going onwards from June 23rd, when we leave we can control our borders and immigration much better to a sensible level so we can plan for future infrastructure spending properly. This will benefit ordinary working class folk when public services become less strained and start to improve. Small business and entrepreneurs will benefit when they can cut costs and EU red tape. May result in more jobs being created so a total win for ordinary people. More tax revenue in the UK when we make an instant saving of billions on our EU membership fee. That money can be redirected into the Nhs, hospitals, GP surgeries, schools and education, new roads, railways and bridges, etc. The EU TTIP deal is also a very real threat to the Nhs. More and better trade links with the rest of the world beyond the borders of the EU where we currently have a trade surplus which is growing each year. In contrast the Euro zone is stagnating and we have a trade deficit with the EU. In general people feel better about their way of life and are happier when they live under a free and democratic system. The EU is fundamentally undemocratic which is why we are seeing a rise in support for anti EU parties at elections all over Europe. Many people all over Europe are not happy with the EU and it is failing them with the ongoing Eurozone crisis, the ongoing migration crisis and high levels of unemployment in many EU countries. more lies from this member ..stop peddling bullshit the only beneficiaries from an out vote will be farage and bojo .." What do you consider to be lies in what was said in that post then? Care to elaborate? I won't be holding my breath. Oh and I will continue to post within the forum rules so you better get used to it. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Staying in EU is worse. Yes EU people already here can stay as they came here legally so that is only right, but going onwards from June 23rd, when we leave we can control our borders and immigration much better to a sensible level so we can plan for future infrastructure spending properly. This will benefit ordinary working class folk when public services become less strained and start to improve. Small business and entrepreneurs will benefit when they can cut costs and EU red tape. May result in more jobs being created so a total win for ordinary people. More tax revenue in the UK when we make an instant saving of billions on our EU membership fee. That money can be redirected into the Nhs, hospitals, GP surgeries, schools and education, new roads, railways and bridges, etc. The EU TTIP deal is also a very real threat to the Nhs. More and better trade links with the rest of the world beyond the borders of the EU where we currently have a trade surplus which is growing each year. In contrast the Euro zone is stagnating and we have a trade deficit with the EU. In general people feel better about their way of life and are happier when they live under a free and democratic system. The EU is fundamentally undemocratic which is why we are seeing a rise in support for anti EU parties at elections all over Europe. Many people all over Europe are not happy with the EU and it is failing them with the ongoing Eurozone crisis, the ongoing migration crisis and high levels of unemployment in many EU countries. more lies from this member ..stop peddling bullshit the only beneficiaries from an out vote will be farage and bojo .. What do you consider to be lies in what was said in that post then? Care to elaborate? I won't be holding my breath. Oh and I will continue to post within the forum rules so you better get used to it. "even in the unlikely event after the 23 June the vote is out there will be no change on border !controls or any other eu law until such time as an exit is negotiated and even thee may me little or no change so stop peddling ukip lies when god forbid us ukip ever gain some sort of power maybe their lies could become realty..but even I don't believe the British.public are that daft to ever elect them | |||
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"I wouldn't mind staying in if things stayed as they are now. But Brussels won't leave us as we are and more EU intervention will come for sure SO VOTE TO LEAVE I think Austria is heading same way as us, they want out of EU For the first time since the Second World War, the traditional parties of the centre left and centre right were knocked out of the race. Support for the Freedom Party has risen because of deep frustration with the established parties and, more recently, because of fears about the migrant crisis. Rightwing parties are gaining strength in a number of EU countries. European leaders will be watching the result closely " Hand in Hand500 looks like you may have called it correctly in Austria's elections. The far right leader of the Freedom party Norbert Hofer looks set to become Europe's first far right head of state since the 2nd World War. It looks like this result is a direct consequence of the EU failure to get a grip on the migrant crisis. The EU is failing the people of Europe and we are seeing the Far right rise as a result of the EU's obvious failings. I think the EU is set to fail anyway even if Britain remains in. Austria could well vote to leave the EU if they get a referendum on Austria's membership as the freedom party is an anti EU party. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
