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University Fees

By *LCC OP Couple over a year ago

Cambridge

The government has announced that from 2017 universities will be able to charge more than £9,000 per year. They say this will improve competition and value for students, but I think it will cost them more and put a lot of people off. Is £28,000+ for a bachelor's degree good value for money? Obviously you have to add on living costs and take into account that you probably wont be working full time for at least three years.

When I did my BA, I paid £1,500 for the first year and £3,000 for my second and third years. I think that was just about affordable, but I wouldn't have been happy paying £28,000 for the amount of teaching I got.

I am now studying an MSc, part time over three years for £2,000 per year. I think this is a reasonable cost.

If you were looking to go to uni in the next few years, would you?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Would depend on how much the unis were charging.

I'm currently at uni and when I finish I would have had around 50k in loans. It probably will never be fully paid due to how it is paid back, but it's still a lot.

If unis are able to set their own price it'd be interesting to know how student finance works, as I'd imagine the better unis would charge more and student finance only covering a set amount, so it will disadvantage a lot of people.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

So, if you go to university, get a degree, use it to get a career, would you expect to pay back the cost for that education?

Or is the view that higher education should be free, or it's costs highly regulated, and funded by society?

Should the costs be means tested, so those from lower income families are subsidised, whilst higher earners pay market rate?

Or some other solution?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I think the primary reason they bumped up the fees was about money but not how you think!.

Base money gets created by loans.

Person A.

goes to uni and takes out a £9000 loan created by the government, they in effect print this money, person A then banks the loan, as it's banked the bank can then hold £900 on reserve and lend out £8100 this gets banked and held and lent out again and with a reserve of 10% one £9000 loan creates £90,000 of credit.... The more money you want in the system the more debt you have to create to create the money, we are indeed a debt based economy and to pump up the system in a time of crises you need to find as many people as possible to take on debt... Ie first time homeowner loans, student loans, housing bubbles etc etc.

All things being equal person A would have repaid the loan through higher taxation on their better paid job but then you wouldn't have had the effect of money creation.

Take all the students in the UK and times their debt by a factor of ten and you realise how much money they generate.

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple over a year ago

Derbyshire

Competition will only work if they restrict the number of overseas students allowed to come in, thereby making supply outstrip demand. Currently all universities charge the maximum and, as far as I am aware, all are full.

Plus the universities are coining it in via accommodation fees too, forget eating or buying books, when we were looking last year, simple accommodation costs alone were more than the full maintenance loan. And there isn't much competition from private landlords, since many universities are buying up any houses on the market in their area. Warwick especially were very proud of that fact.

In effect our children will be paying an extra 9% 'tax' once they start working, yet we're told the richest couldn't possibly afford to pay an extra 5% now...

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By *oredShitlessxxxCouple over a year ago

luton

They want overseas students coming in to the UK to study. The UK Government has said this over years of bleating on about competing with other countries education standards, since Cameron anyway.

This is to make money, not to create competition....

I got my BA, although it should have been a LLB (Hons)because the fees where tripled and the changes implemented by the Ministry of Education, post 2012.

Pffft its all a con and I feel sorry for the UK families that wont be able to afford to send their kids to Universities.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I feel like I've got more than £21,000's worth of education out of the degree I'm currently about to finish.

Oxford University said last year that the true cost of teaching an undergraduate is about £15,000 per year. Universities subsidise undergraduates by selling research, through Postgraduate students, and through their investments that they hold.

I would prefer students to be paying closer to the actual cost of their education. It's not a problem because you only pay it back in a percentage amount based on your salary.

If people don't feel like they're getting good value out of a degree, then perhaps they picked the wrong subject or institution?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So, if you go to university, get a degree, use it to get a career, would you expect to pay back the cost for that education?

Or is the view that higher education should be free, or it's costs highly regulated, and funded by society?

Should the costs be means tested, so those from lower income families are subsidised, whilst higher earners pay market rate?

Or some other solution?"

I don't think it should be means tested. I think everyone should be entitled to a loan which they pay off when they graduate and get a job above the threshold. Why should someone from a low income family get more money and don't have to pay it back when they may come out to a better job than the persons who's parents are only on a moderate income and can barely afford to help out.

Even those very rich parents may choose not to help as they want their children to help themselves. And should they chose to pay the fees then that should be their perogotive. Even in that scenario o believe the student should still have the right to a Student Loan as its not free money, they have to pat it back like everyone else.

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By *iss_tressWoman over a year ago

London

"The government has announced that from 2017 universities will be able to charge more than £9,000 per year. They say this will improve competition and value for students, but I think it will cost them more and put a lot of people off. Is £28,000+ for a bachelor's degree good value for money? Obviously you have to add on living costs and take into account that you probably wont be working full time for at least three years.

I am now studying an MSc, part time over three years for £2,000 per year. I think this is a reasonable cost.

If you were looking to go to uni in the next few years, would you? "

No!

Back in the day when I did my degree it was free: you got a grant. When I had kids I said to my husband they'll have to pay for university when their time comes so let's save for it. He thought I was bonkers!

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By *oredShitlessxxxCouple over a year ago

luton

"I feel like I've got more than £21,000's worth of education out of the degree I'm currently about to finish.

I would prefer students to be paying closer to the actual cost of their education. It's not a problem because you only pay it back in a percentage amount based on your salary.

If people don't feel like they're getting good value out of a degree, then perhaps they picked the wrong subject or institution?"

Really, in 2012 the SRA & BSB brought out a roots and branches review of Law students and the standards to which they were being educated to, considering that this was the same standard for over 40 years in all Universities.

It was deemed that current standards did not meet the industries needs (except in top Universities, like Oxford & Cambridge) so all Law modules/degrees where restructured. So all those that spent good money uptil that point where left with a degree that the industry didn't want, irrespective of whether the said individuals had a 1st or 2.1 with hons degree chance or not.

So unless you can afford to be in Oxford or Cambridge, you was just left with nothing but a piece of paper which cost thousands and may I add, those that had been subsidised by grants via the tax payer, they too where left high & dry.

So how are tax payers (like me) going to expect such an individual to repay their student loan, when their degree wont get them anywhere?

Crazy world, hundreds of thousands spent on educating people over 5 years for nothing to come of it....

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I see no problem with having to fund your own education.

Why should childless people have to pay for my children to be educated.

I have two at uni and think the current system is just about fare.

They'll never pay back the loan anyway , why would you ?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I see no problem with having to fund your own education.

Why should childless people have to pay for my children to be educated.

I have two at uni and think the current system is just about fare.

They'll never pay back the loan anyway , why would you ? "
.

That sounds logical but you could follow that conclusion along to why should anyone fund anything, I mean why does somebody who doesn't own a car fund roads(apart from all your goods getting delivered on it), why does somebody who never fly's fund airports(it aids your commerce)...

The answer is that you benefit from it, the problem is that it's not a very visible benefit, so most people complain about a "cost" that they don't "use"

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I see no problem with having to fund your own education.

Why should childless people have to pay for my children to be educated.

I have two at uni and think the current system is just about fare.

They'll never pay back the loan anyway , why would you ? .

The answer is that you benefit from it, the problem is that it's not a very visible benefit, so most people complain about a "cost" that they don't "use""

You get free education up to sixth form. I believe this is sufficient.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Back home in sweden all education is free. Makes you wonder why they charge for it in the uk.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I am now studying an MSc, part time over three years for £2,000 per year. I think this is a reasonable cost.

If you were looking to go to uni in the next few years, would you? "

There's a massive elephant in the room that nobody has mentioned...

In a 3 year degree, the first year does not count towards to your degree and is basically a re-run of A levels.

The easy solution is to allow people with an A level in their chosen subject (or closely related) to have 2 year degrees.

Higher fees for the university and less debt for the student = easy win.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I feel like I've got more than £21,000's worth of education out of the degree I'm currently about to finish.

I would prefer students to be paying closer to the actual cost of their education. It's not a problem because you only pay it back in a percentage amount based on your salary.

If people don't feel like they're getting good value out of a degree, then perhaps they picked the wrong subject or institution?"

Exactly this Wasp...if you do a "Mickey Mouse" degree you will probably never earn enough to pay it back anyway....so doesn't really matter what it costs as far as you are concerned. Still ends up paid for by taxpayers in general.

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By *oredShitlessxxxCouple over a year ago

luton

"I feel like I've got more than £21,000's worth of education out of the degree I'm currently about to finish.

I would prefer students to be paying closer to the actual cost of their education. It's not a problem because you only pay it back in a percentage amount based on your salary.

If people don't feel like they're getting good value out of a degree, then perhaps they picked the wrong subject or institution?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Science research posts pay notoriously little (unless you work for a private company) so are people going to stop going into science and medical research in government posts because they can't afford to pay back their education fees?

I did a degree, a masters and a PhD, and I'm currently unable to work for the foreseeable future. I would've been screwed, basically.

I also wonder if this will stop a lot of women having kids because they need to focus on their career to make their education "worth it"?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I don't think it's wrong to pay for further education, but I do think it's a shame that the country doesn't invest in its young people in such a way. Other countries have good models (even Scotland for example) but I know it's not a priority for us.

I was lucky and was sponsored during my education so I'm debt free. It would've probably been worth what it cost, as I earn more in a year.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Science research posts pay notoriously little (unless you work for a private company) so are people going to stop going into science and medical research in government posts because they can't afford to pay back their education fees?

I did a degree, a masters and a PhD, and I'm currently unable to work for the foreseeable future. I would've been screwed, basically.

I also wonder if this will stop a lot of women having kids because they need to focus on their career to make their education "worth it"?

I've delayed having children to focus on my career. It's a choice, and I wouldn't blame the cost of education, it's just more important for me to be solvent enough to afford to take off time if needed. It's wiser for me to work and delay family.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

My student fees I earned above and beyond in my first year as a "professional". But I don't have to pay mine back due to who employs me.

I think they are a barrier. I think too many people that do degrees shouldn't and I think both the standard of teaching and course content is poorer. I am now doing another degree (sponsored) and I find the standards much worse.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I did a degree, a masters and a PhD, and I'm currently unable to work for the foreseeable future. I would've been screwed, basically.

I also wonder if this will stop a lot of women having kids because they need to focus on their career to make their education "worth it"?

You don't pay back the loan unless you are earning , then it's taken at a % of what you earn.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

One of the best options is if you can get sponsored through your degree by an employer.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Back home in sweden all education is free. Makes you wonder why they charge for it in the uk."

Mine pays for people to come to the Uk and study at no cost. Colonialism to thank for that one.

I think it will have a huge impact on those who can't afford it.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I see no problem with having to fund your own education.

Why should childless people have to pay for my children to be educated.

I have two at uni and think the current system is just about fare.

They'll never pay back the loan anyway , why would you ? .

The answer is that you benefit from it, the problem is that it's not a very visible benefit, so most people complain about a "cost" that they don't "use"

You get free education up to sixth form. I believe this is sufficient. "
.

Well it is, unless you need doctors, or vets, teachers,pharmacists, scientists, engineers, computer programmers... You know the boffins, who actually invent stuff and generally create all real wealth for the rest of us parasites to feed off...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I feel like I've got more than £21,000's worth of education out of the degree I'm currently about to finish.

I would prefer students to be paying closer to the actual cost of their education. It's not a problem because you only pay it back in a percentage amount based on your salary.

If people don't feel like they're getting good value out of a degree, then perhaps they picked the wrong subject or institution?

Most people consider my degree a 'micky mouse' degree.

I suspect I will earn enough to pay it back.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Cheap to study in Holland. A much better choice and cv will stand out

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I see no problem with having to fund your own education.

Why should childless people have to pay for my children to be educated.

I have two at uni and think the current system is just about fare.

They'll never pay back the loan anyway , why would you ? .

The answer is that you benefit from it, the problem is that it's not a very visible benefit, so most people complain about a "cost" that they don't "use"

You get free education up to sixth form. I believe this is sufficient. .

All those trades baring teachers are healthily remunerated for their work so can easily absorb the loan.

But with teachers they will pay the loan off at a lower rate.

Why are some trades considered worthy of tax payers money and others not ?

I funded my own education 20 years ago and a lot of tradesmen / women have to do the same, and they are not paid nearly as much as doctors or vets.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Why are some trades considered worthy of tax payers money and others not ? "

Some trades contribute to the long term improvement of human quality of life and some don't basically.

As Peter Drucker said of businesses "there are people that design stuff and people that sell stuff, everyone else is an overhead".

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan over a year ago

here

makes you think seriously about your chosen career path.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I think the primary reason they bumped up the fees was about money but not how you think!.

Base money gets created by loans.

Person A.

All things being equal person A would have repaid the loan through higher taxation on their better paid job but then you wouldn't have had the effect of money creation.

Take all the students in the UK and times their debt by a factor of ten and you realise how much money they generate."

Ain't no party like a macro economics party

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"makes you think seriously about your chosen career path."

I think this is a problem. I went at 28 and have really got my money's worth.

Does a 16/17 year old really have enough life experience to pick both their career and a subject that will help it and that they'll enjoy?

I wanted to study physics at 16. Good job I didn't, I'd have fucking hated being a scientist - which is what I wanted to do.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

University Fees are a thing of the past in Scotland

no charge for Scottish Students

Scottish students studying in Scotland full time for a first degree or equivalent are not required to pay tuition fees

This means that you will not need to take out a student loan or cover the cost of any of your tuition for your time at university

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"University Fees are a thing of the past in Scotland

no charge for Scottish Students

Scottish students studying in Scotland full time for a first degree or equivalent are not required to pay tuition fees

This means that you will not need to take out a student loan or cover the cost of any of your tuition for your time at university

They will most likely still take out a student loan. Student loans are for living costs as well as tuition fees, and I suspect scotgov is not paying for accommodation, food, entertainment, etc.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"makes you think seriously about your chosen career path.

I think this is a problem. I went at 28 and have really got my money's worth.

Does a 16/17 year old really have enough life experience to pick both their career and a subject that will help it and that they'll enjoy"

Some do, some don't.

I definitely did since there was only ever one subject I found at all interesting.

I find it annoying that I had to do a 3 year degree, of which the first year is meaningless, just so other people could catch up if they didn't have an A level in the subject. First year should be optional.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"makes you think seriously about your chosen career path.

I think this is a problem. I went at 28 and have really got my money's worth.

Does a 16/17 year old really have enough life experience to pick both their career and a subject that will help it and that they'll enjoy

Some do, some don't.

I definitely did since there was only ever one subject I found at all interesting.

Yep, you should be in charge of writing the programme,

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"makes you think seriously about your chosen career path.

I think this is a problem. I went at 28 and have really got my money's worth.

Does a 16/17 year old really have enough life experience to pick both their career and a subject that will help it and that they'll enjoy

Some do, some don't.

I definitely did since there was only ever one subject I found at all interesting.

Not in all subjects. The a level in my subject didn't really cross over much at all with the first year of my degree. You are severely generalizing.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Why waste 3 years before getting a good job?

unless you like a life of leisure

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"makes you think seriously about your chosen career path.

I think this is a problem. I went at 28 and have really got my money's worth.

Does a 16/17 year old really have enough life experience to pick both their career and a subject that will help it and that they'll enjoy

Some do, some don't.

I definitely did since there was only ever one subject I found at all interesting.

Not in all subjects. The a level in my subject didn't really cross over much at all with the first year of my degree. You are severely generalizing. "

Hence the term 'optional'.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Why waste 3 years before getting a good job?

unless you like a life of leisure

I tried the full time job thing for ten years. Then I realized that in order to progress in my career I needed the skills and knowledge that a degree would bring me.

The fact you see education as a waste of time (and easy) says a lot about you.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"makes you think seriously about your chosen career path.

I think this is a problem. I went at 28 and have really got my money's worth.

Does a 16/17 year old really have enough life experience to pick both their career and a subject that will help it and that they'll enjoy

Some do, some don't.

I definitely did since there was only ever one subject I found at all interesting.

Not in all subjects. The a level in my subject didn't really cross over much at all with the first year of my degree. You are severely generalizing.

Hence the term 'optional'. "

I'd rather that other subjects just did what art does as a subject. If you are not up to standard for the first year of the degree then you sit a preparatory year.

(Very few a level students would be able to write essays to the standard required in humanities subjects.)

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"makes you think seriously about your chosen career path.

I think this is a problem. I went at 28 and have really got my money's worth.

Does a 16/17 year old really have enough life experience to pick both their career and a subject that will help it and that they'll enjoy

Some do, some don't.

I definitely did since there was only ever one subject I found at all interesting.

Not in all subjects. The a level in my subject didn't really cross over much at all with the first year of my degree. You are severely generalizing.

Hence the term 'optional'.

I'd rather that other subjects just did what art does as a subject. If you are not up to standard for the first year of the degree then you sit a preparatory year.

(Very few a level students would be able to write essays to the standard required in humanities subjects.)"

Sounds fair. My essays were fine content wise but admittedly it took a while to get the referencing and formatting right. Something I would have been motivated to learn over the summer if it was save thousands on a year that didn't count towards my degree.

First year ruined my (academic) experience because I couldn't be bothered to turn up since I didn't need to in order to pass it. Then when the second year came, I figured I passed the first year just by doing well at exams so I may as well do the same this year. By the third year I couldn't see the point of changing the habit. I got a 2:1 from a Russell Group university.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Why waste 3 years before getting a good job?

unless you like a life of leisure

I tried the full time job thing for ten years. Then I realized that in order to progress in my career I needed the skills and knowledge that a degree would bring me.

The fact you see education as a waste of time (and easy) says a lot about you."

many like myself did not go down the route of a degree and ensured good jobs with large corporations who provide excellent alary and pension amongst other benefits such as shares, medical cover etc, I did not say education is a waste of time, just going down the path of a degree, or two, or three when you can be working and earning good income, whilst paying towards a pension

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

where did the S go

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Why waste 3 years before getting a good job?

unless you like a life of leisure

I tried the full time job thing for ten years. Then I realized that in order to progress in my career I needed the skills and knowledge that a degree would bring me.

The fact you see education as a waste of time (and easy) says a lot about you.

What year did you start your career? Today there are far less options for an 18 year old wanting a career because employers are snobbish about degrees and degrees are in plentiful supply.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS over a year ago

Central

I'm at uni again atm and paying way too much.

It's not just the tuition fees being borrowed but also money to help students to be able to live - maintenance loans.

Some of the earlier student loans were turned over to private debt agencies, and the terms and conditions changed of course: they were significantly worse afterwards.

It will deter kids from the backgrounds should be getting help with improving their prospects - the poorer who are bright. For too long we've been mainly run as a country by the wealthier in society.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

daughter paid 9k a year for 3 years for an english language and literature degree - came out with a first with honours - she then got a 9k bursery because of her result to get through her teacher training year and will start paying it back straight away as she will just be on the threshold to do so - its money shes never had and happy to pay it back -

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By *adyGardenWoman over a year ago

LONDON (se)

This scares me as my Daughter will be at university for a minimum of 5 years and a max of 7. She wants to be a vet and qualify to practice in America and only 6 in the UK give her that qualification. As it stands she will be 100k if not more in debt. The change will have a huge impact on her young life and this amount of forced financial burden at such a young age us unjustified

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

i told the kids never to worrry about the debt - its only payable after they start to earn a certain amount and then taken out at a low rate - its money they never actually have as its taken out before they get it so not going to miss it -

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"This scares me as my Daughter will be at university for a minimum of 5 years and a max of 7. She wants to be a vet and qualify to practice in America and only 6 in the UK give her that qualification. As it stands she will be 100k if not more in debt. The change will have a huge impact on her young life and this amount of forced financial burden at such a young age us unjustified "

If she's working abroad she doesn't have to pay the loan back , it is deducted from your salary but they only have the facility to do this in the uk.

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

I had a chat with a US exchange student at UCL back in 2000?

He had $36,000 of debt and I thought the idea was horrifying (I was the last year that got a grant - remember those?).

It's now par for the course.

Fees were capped at £3,225 as late as 2009/10 but have sky-rocketed since.

It creates a two-tier system where those with the money can afford it and those without are put off.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I had a chat with a US exchange student at UCL back in 2000?

He had $36,000 of debt and I thought the idea was horrifying (I was the last year that got a grant - remember those?).

It's now par for the course.

Fees were capped at £3,225 as late as 2009/10 but have sky-rocketed since.

It creates a two-tier system where those with the money can afford it and those without are put off.

I don't understand how it is a two tier system. The fees are covered by a loan.

Everyone is entitled to the loan. Everybody repays the loan at the same rate.

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By *adyGardenWoman over a year ago

LONDON (se)

If she's working abroad she doesn't have to pay the loan back , it is deducted from your salary but they only have the facility to do this in the uk. "

Wow that is good to know I never knew that. Thanks

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

"I had a chat with a US exchange student at UCL back in 2000?

He had $36,000 of debt and I thought the idea was horrifying (I was the last year that got a grant - remember those?).

It's now par for the course.

Fees were capped at £3,225 as late as 2009/10 but have sky-rocketed since.

It creates a two-tier system where those with the money can afford it and those without are put off.

I don't understand how it is a two tier system. The fees are covered by a loan.

Everyone is entitled to the loan. Everybody repays the loan at the same rate. "

But the very idea of a debt equivalent to several years' salary for a low-paid worker, plus the costs of living and housing, are enough to put off people from poorer backgrounds.

QED

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If she's working abroad she doesn't have to pay the loan back , it is deducted from your salary but they only have the facility to do this in the uk.

Wow that is good to know I never knew that. Thanks "

My so is at uni and wishes to work in America so he has researched this. Also what you haven't paid back by the time you're 50 is written off.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I had a chat with a US exchange student at UCL back in 2000?

He had $36,000 of debt and I thought the idea was horrifying (I was the last year that got a grant - remember those?).

It's now par for the course.

Fees were capped at £3,225 as late as 2009/10 but have sky-rocketed since.

It creates a two-tier system where those with the money can afford it and those without are put off.

I don't understand how it is a two tier system. The fees are covered by a loan.

Everyone is entitled to the loan. Everybody repays the loan at the same rate.

But the very idea of a debt equivalent to several years' salary for a low-paid worker, plus the costs of living and housing, are enough to put off people from poorer backgrounds.

QED"

But surely by gaining a degree you are hoping to be a high paid worker.

And if you are unfortunate not to have a high paid job you pay back less.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I had a chat with a US exchange student at UCL back in 2000?

He had $36,000 of debt and I thought the idea was horrifying (I was the last year that got a grant - remember those?).

It's now par for the course.

Fees were capped at £3,225 as late as 2009/10 but have sky-rocketed since.

It creates a two-tier system where those with the money can afford it and those without are put off.

I don't understand how it is a two tier system. The fees are covered by a loan.

Everyone is entitled to the loan. Everybody repays the loan at the same rate.

But the very idea of a debt equivalent to several years' salary for a low-paid worker, plus the costs of living and housing, are enough to put off people from poorer backgrounds.

QED

But surely by gaining a degree you are hoping to be a high paid worker.

And if you are unfortunate not to have a high paid job you pay back less. "

Also the cost of living & housing are covered by the loan.

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By *est Wales WifeCouple over a year ago

Near Carmarthen

If she's working abroad she doesn't have to pay the loan back , it is deducted from your salary but they only have the facility to do this in the uk. "

The debt still remains and is still repayable. It may be harder to collect but the government has trialled sharing information with foreign governments so that they alert the Student Loans Company when a graduate is working and able to pay.

It plans to take legal action against those who are refusing to pay and to use debt recovery agencies in those countries to enforce repayment.

Officials hope to claw back £76 million in unpaid loans which has accumulated over the last 20 years from UK students who have gone overseas.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If she's working abroad she doesn't have to pay the loan back , it is deducted from your salary but they only have the facility to do this in the uk.

It plans to take legal action against those who are refusing to pay and to use debt recovery agencies in those countries to enforce repayment.

Officials hope to claw back £76 million in unpaid loans which has accumulated over the last 20 years from UK students who have gone overseas."

It will be extremely difficult and expensive for any government to pursue anyone abroad who owes a student loan.

The agreement when taking out the loan is that it will be taken from your salary. You are breaking no rules by working abroad and if they haven't the facility to deduct from source it is not your problem.

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

"I had a chat with a US exchange student at UCL back in 2000?

He had $36,000 of debt and I thought the idea was horrifying (I was the last year that got a grant - remember those?).

It's now par for the course.

Fees were capped at £3,225 as late as 2009/10 but have sky-rocketed since.

It creates a two-tier system where those with the money can afford it and those without are put off.

I don't understand how it is a two tier system. The fees are covered by a loan.

Everyone is entitled to the loan. Everybody repays the loan at the same rate.

But the very idea of a debt equivalent to several years' salary for a low-paid worker, plus the costs of living and housing, are enough to put off people from poorer backgrounds.

QED

But surely by gaining a degree you are hoping to be a high paid worker.

And if you are unfortunate not to have a high paid job you pay back less.

Also the cost of living & housing are covered by the loan. "

Oh yeah, sure, if you don;t mind ending up with £50k or so debt

That's what I'm saying - the prospect of that puts people who can't afford it off.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I had a chat with a US exchange student at UCL back in 2000?

He had $36,000 of debt and I thought the idea was horrifying (I was the last year that got a grant - remember those?).

It's now par for the course.

Fees were capped at £3,225 as late as 2009/10 but have sky-rocketed since.

It creates a two-tier system where those with the money can afford it and those without are put off.

I don't understand how it is a two tier system. The fees are covered by a loan.

Everyone is entitled to the loan. Everybody repays the loan at the same rate.

But the very idea of a debt equivalent to several years' salary for a low-paid worker, plus the costs of living and housing, are enough to put off people from poorer backgrounds.

QED"

Only if they cannot understand how the loans work.

If they cannot understand how the loans work they might not be ready for university.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I don't understand why it's seen as a higher class thing to attend uni. You don't pay it back until after you're earning a certain amount. Lack of knowledge on fees is surprising.

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

"Only if they cannot understand how the loans work.

If they cannot understand how the loans work they might not be ready for university."

So is it fine for people to expect £30k+ debt and for the cost of a university education?

And that wouldn't put off someone from a lower-income background?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Only if they cannot understand how the loans work.

If they cannot understand how the loans work they might not be ready for university.

So is it fine for people to expect £30k+ debt and for the cost of a university education?

And that wouldn't put off someone from a lower-income background?"

But if that lower income person comes out at the end of the degree earning the same as a higher income person, what's the difference?

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

[Removed by poster at 17/05/16 15:28:28]

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

"Only if they cannot understand how the loans work.

If they cannot understand how the loans work they might not be ready for university.

So is it fine for people to expect £30k+ debt and for the cost of a university education?

And that wouldn't put off someone from a lower-income background?

But if that lower income person comes out at the end of the degree earning the same as a higher income person, what's the difference?"

The problem is two-fold:-

1/ the sheer numbers attending university now have devalued a degree.

2/ the economy doesn't have enough high-skilled jobs for all its graduates.

Britain’s failure to create sufficient high-skilled jobs for its rising proportion of graduates means the money invested in education is being squandered, while young people are left crippled by student debts.

The mismatch between the number of university leavers and the jobs appropriate to their skills has left the UK with more than half of its graduates in non-graduate jobs, one of the highest rates in Europe, according to the Chartered Institute of Personnel and Development (CIPD).

That's from Aug. 2015

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

“The assumption that we will transition to a more productive, higher-value, higher-skilled economy just by increasing the conveyor belt of graduates is proven to be flawed... Simply increasing the qualification level of individuals going into a job does not typically result in the skill required to do the job being enhanced – in many cases that skills premium, if it exists at all, is simply wasted. This situation is unsustainable given that the government estimates that 45% of university graduates will not earn enough to repay their student loans.”

CIPD chief executive Peter Cheese.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Only if they cannot understand how the loans work.

If they cannot understand how the loans work they might not be ready for university.

So is it fine for people to expect £30k+ debt and for the cost of a university education?

And that wouldn't put off someone from a lower-income background?

But if that lower income person comes out at the end of the degree earning the same as a higher income person, what's the difference?

The problem is two-fold:-

1/ the sheer numbers attending university now have devalued a degree.

2/ the economy doesn't have enough high-skilled jobs for all its graduates.

That's from Aug. 2015"

But I still don't understand how it, if the graduate isn't earning and won't be repaying the loan or isn't earning as much and paying lower amounts, affects them being put off? It seems like a misunderstanding of the payment or a cultural stigma instead of the cost.

It's the same as lower income family students getting grants, I don't follow the logic.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"“The assumption that we will transition to a more productive, higher-value, higher-skilled economy just by increasing the conveyor belt of graduates is proven to be flawed... Simply increasing the qualification level of individuals going into a job does not typically result in the skill required to do the job being enhanced – in many cases that skills premium, if it exists at all, is simply wasted. This situation is unsustainable given that the government estimates that 45% of university graduates will not earn enough to repay their student loans.”

CIPD chief executive Peter Cheese."

That's a problem for the government and not the graduate, surely?

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

CIPD chief executive Peter Cheese.

That's a problem for the government and not the graduate, surely?"

It's undeniably a problem for the graduate

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

CIPD chief executive Peter Cheese.

That's a problem for the government and not the graduate, surely?

It's undeniably a problem for the graduate "

How? Their debt repayments remain the same, it's the government that eats the shortfall, isn't it?

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

CIPD chief executive Peter Cheese.

That's a problem for the government and not the graduate, surely?

It's undeniably a problem for the graduate

How? Their debt repayments remain the same, it's the government that eats the shortfall, isn't it?"

So you spend all that/get in to debt... there isn't the job available...

How's that the government's problem?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

CIPD chief executive Peter Cheese.

That's a problem for the government and not the graduate, surely?

It's undeniably a problem for the graduate

How? Their debt repayments remain the same, it's the government that eats the shortfall, isn't it?

So you spend all that/get in to debt... there isn't the job available...

How's that the government's problem?"

Not sure I follow, but I'm talking about the unpaid debts, they're the government's problem.

If you don't get a job, you won't earn and you won't repay the loan.

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

CIPD chief executive Peter Cheese.

That's a problem for the government and not the graduate, surely?

It's undeniably a problem for the graduate

How? Their debt repayments remain the same, it's the government that eats the shortfall, isn't it?

So you spend all that/get in to debt... there isn't the job available...

How's that the government's problem?

Not sure I follow, but I'm talking about the unpaid debts, they're the government's problem.

If you don't get a job, you won't earn and you won't repay the loan.

So it's ok to borrow money and not repay it? Ok.

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

This from professors at Royal Holloway, 2014:

"The effect of this situation on our younger colleagues is crippling.

First-class young scholars who have spent all their lives in an education system where merit is consistently rewarded suddenly find themselves unsuccessful; naturally they attribute this failure to their own lack of merit.

For a while such an assumption

may cause them to work harder, but when hard work fails to produce results they often collapse in anguish, their self-confidence shattered.

Many people who could have been happy in good non-academic careers if they had left academia after the BA find themselves with far fewer options once they have done a PhD: not only have they invested many years in a degree that turns out not to be of any practical use to them, perhaps accumulating debt along the way, but they have often been damaged psychologically by the failure to succeed in their chosen profession, and the emotional investment in the academic profession entailed in completing a PhD can leave people without the will to start over in another career."

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

CIPD chief executive Peter Cheese.

That's a problem for the government and not the graduate, surely?

It's undeniably a problem for the graduate

How? Their debt repayments remain the same, it's the government that eats the shortfall, isn't it?

So you spend all that/get in to debt... there isn't the job available...

How's that the government's problem?

Not sure I follow, but I'm talking about the unpaid debts, they're the government's problem.

If you don't get a job, you won't earn and you won't repay the loan.

So it's ok to borrow money and not repay it? Ok."

That's how the system is set up, you'd be a fool not to take advantage of it.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

CIPD chief executive Peter Cheese.

That's a problem for the government and not the graduate, surely?

It's undeniably a problem for the graduate

How? Their debt repayments remain the same, it's the government that eats the shortfall, isn't it?

So you spend all that/get in to debt... there isn't the job available...

How's that the government's problem?

Not sure I follow, but I'm talking about the unpaid debts, they're the government's problem.

If you don't get a job, you won't earn and you won't repay the loan.

So it's ok to borrow money and not repay it? Ok."

Hang on, that's a different argument. It just isn't the graduates problem if they don't repay the loan, it affects the government and not them in terms of the debt. Quality of life would probably be no different than if they hadn't attended uni, it's not a deterrent for not attending.

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

A degree is no longer a passport to success.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"A degree is no longer a passport to success. "

It's still much harder to succeed without one.

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

CIPD chief executive Peter Cheese.

That's a problem for the government and not the graduate, surely?

It's undeniably a problem for the graduate

How? Their debt repayments remain the same, it's the government that eats the shortfall, isn't it?

So you spend all that/get in to debt... there isn't the job available...

How's that the government's problem?

Not sure I follow, but I'm talking about the unpaid debts, they're the government's problem.

If you don't get a job, you won't earn and you won't repay the loan.

So it's ok to borrow money and not repay it? Ok.

That's how the system is set up, you'd be a fool not to take advantage of it. "

Shouldn't we pay for what we use? Isn't that the conservative mantra?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"A degree is no longer a passport to success. "

That isn't an argument for scrapping the loan though.

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

"A degree is no longer a passport to success.

It's still much harder to succeed without one. "

I disagree - I'm willing to bet that in the future a degree will of less value than an adaptable mind capable of configuring and re-configuring ideas and information.

A degree as a marker of excellence is a concept from the 1950s

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

CIPD chief executive Peter Cheese.

That's a problem for the government and not the graduate, surely?

It's undeniably a problem for the graduate

How? Their debt repayments remain the same, it's the government that eats the shortfall, isn't it?

So you spend all that/get in to debt... there isn't the job available...

How's that the government's problem?

Not sure I follow, but I'm talking about the unpaid debts, they're the government's problem.

If you don't get a job, you won't earn and you won't repay the loan.

So it's ok to borrow money and not repay it? Ok.

That's how the system is set up, you'd be a fool not to take advantage of it.

Shouldn't we pay for what we use? Isn't that the conservative mantra?

I've no idea. But the loan is set up in such a way that you only pay it back when you can afford to.

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

"So it's ok to borrow money and not repay it? Ok.

That's how the system is set up, you'd be a fool not to take advantage of it.

Shouldn't we pay for what we use? Isn't that the conservative mantra?

I've no idea. But the loan is set up in such a way that you only pay it back when you can afford to. "

But you just said it's ok not to repay it... I don't follow...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"A degree is no longer a passport to success.

It's still much harder to succeed without one.

I disagree - I'm willing to bet that in the future a degree will of less value than an adaptable mind capable of configuring and re-configuring ideas and information.

A degree as a marker of excellence is a concept from the 1950s"

Yeh but that's a possibility in the future as opposed to the very real present.

I do not know of any company in my industry that will accept a CV of a non graduate (or similar experience, which is nonsense as a non graduate would never get experience).

I do know of a lot of below average salary companies that would accept a non graduate though.

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

"A degree is no longer a passport to success.

It's still much harder to succeed without one.

I disagree - I'm willing to bet that in the future a degree will of less value than an adaptable mind capable of configuring and re-configuring ideas and information.

A degree as a marker of excellence is a concept from the 1950s

Yeh but that's a possibility in the future as opposed to the very real present.

I do not know of any company in my industry that will accept a CV of a non graduate (or similar experience, which is nonsense as a non graduate would never get experience).

I do know of a lot of below average salary companies that would accept a non graduate though. "

Depends on the field, of course, but we produce very few science or maths graduates - the silly buggers doing media studies haven't a hope

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I would love to go to uni, but at 45 with all the usual adult responsibilities it is impossible. Instead I am doing an open university course

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"A degree is no longer a passport to success.

It's still much harder to succeed without one.

I disagree - I'm willing to bet that in the future a degree will of less value than an adaptable mind capable of configuring and re-configuring ideas and information.

A degree as a marker of excellence is a concept from the 1950s

Yeh but that's a possibility in the future as opposed to the very real present.

I do not know of any company in my industry that will accept a CV of a non graduate (or similar experience, which is nonsense as a non graduate would never get experience).

I do know of a lot of below average salary companies that would accept a non graduate though.

Depends on the field, of course, but we produce very few science or maths graduates - the silly buggers doing media studies haven't a hope"

Still true though, just like there's no non graduate doctors. Or engineers. Or dentists. Typically high earning careers require a degree, or a lot of luck.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So it's ok to borrow money and not repay it? Ok.

That's how the system is set up, you'd be a fool not to take advantage of it.

Shouldn't we pay for what we use? Isn't that the conservative mantra?

I've no idea. But the loan is set up in such a way that you only pay it back when you can afford to.

But you just said it's ok not to repay it... I don't follow...

Try and keep up , I'll speak louder for those at the back.

If you reach the age of 50 without repaying the loan it is written off. This is ok.

If you don't earn enough you don't pay it back. This is ok.

If you move abroad and they are unable to take the loan from your salary. This is ok.

If you earn above the threshold you pay it back in increments depending on how much you earn. This is ok.

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By *imiUKMan over a year ago

Hereford

Fuck me, this thread is depressing.

Whatever happened to "intellectual capital"?

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

"A degree is no longer a passport to success.

It's still much harder to succeed without one.

I disagree - I'm willing to bet that in the future a degree will of less value than an adaptable mind capable of configuring and re-configuring ideas and information.

A degree as a marker of excellence is a concept from the 1950s

Yeh but that's a possibility in the future as opposed to the very real present.

I do not know of any company in my industry that will accept a CV of a non graduate (or similar experience, which is nonsense as a non graduate would never get experience).

I do know of a lot of below average salary companies that would accept a non graduate though.

Depends on the field, of course, but we produce very few science or maths graduates - the silly buggers doing media studies haven't a hope

Still true though, just like there's no non graduate doctors. Or engineers. Or dentists. Typically high earning careers require a degree, or a lot of luck. "

...and how many people train in those professions?

Look at the problems for junior doctors, or the high prevalence of foreign-born engineers and dentists...

Our children prefer to do 'softer' subjects

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

"Fuck me, this thread is depressing.

Whatever happened to "intellectual capital"?"

Or learning for its own sake?

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

"So it's ok to borrow money and not repay it? Ok.

That's how the system is set up, you'd be a fool not to take advantage of it.

Shouldn't we pay for what we use? Isn't that the conservative mantra?

I've no idea. But the loan is set up in such a way that you only pay it back when you can afford to.

But you just said it's ok not to repay it... I don't follow...

Try and keep up , I'll speak louder for those at the back.

If you reach the age of 50 without repaying the loan it is written off. This is ok.

If you don't earn enough you don't pay it back. This is ok.

If you move abroad and they are unable to take the loan from your salary. This is ok.

If you earn above the threshold you pay it back in increments depending on how much you earn. This is ok. "

So it's ok to get in to debt for a degree if you don;t have to pay it back?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The problem at the moment and not just for the UK but globally, is the lack of demand from debt repayment.

The average starting salary for graduates is appox 29k ... Less your tax, ni and £100 a month loan repayment.... This in reality means your ability to even receive further credit to simulate demand is decidedly lacking.

Wages have been depressed by globalisation and currently the problem is the west who are the demand have depressed debt ridden wages and the east has started from a low point already... So in effect we no longer have a consumer but at the same time a very over capacity producer.

Sooner or later a debt Jubile will almost certainly be required or we'll need to push up wages by a 100% in the west.

What were currently trying to do is get out of a debt crises with more debt and as Japan proved decades ago.... It's a hopeless failure where you wait around thirty years trying to clear debt by traditional means of bankruptcy, insolvency while slowly your gdp and debt ratio get further apart.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So it's ok to borrow money and not repay it? Ok.

That's how the system is set up, you'd be a fool not to take advantage of it.

Shouldn't we pay for what we use? Isn't that the conservative mantra?

I've no idea. But the loan is set up in such a way that you only pay it back when you can afford to.

But you just said it's ok not to repay it... I don't follow...

Try and keep up , I'll speak louder for those at the back.

If you reach the age of 50 without repaying the loan it is written off. This is ok.

If you don't earn enough you don't pay it back. This is ok.

If you move abroad and they are unable to take the loan from your salary. This is ok.

If you earn above the threshold you pay it back in increments depending on how much you earn. This is ok.

So it's ok to get in to debt for a degree if you don;t have to pay it back?"

If you abide by the rules of the contract. This is ok.

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

Case in point. Me.

I have a BA from a Russel Group university and a Master's from one of the top universities on the planet.

I studied those subjects for the love of them and, to an extent, because my parents expected me to.

Neither of my subsequent career paths (caseworking drugs, alcohol & mental health and now in communications) have used those degrees.

Rather I have taught myself new skills and taken new opportunities as circumstance requires.

My parents must be steaming

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

"So it's ok to borrow money and not repay it? Ok.

That's how the system is set up, you'd be a fool not to take advantage of it.

Shouldn't we pay for what we use? Isn't that the conservative mantra?

I've no idea. But the loan is set up in such a way that you only pay it back when you can afford to.

But you just said it's ok not to repay it... I don't follow...

Try and keep up , I'll speak louder for those at the back.

If you reach the age of 50 without repaying the loan it is written off. This is ok.

If you don't earn enough you don't pay it back. This is ok.

If you move abroad and they are unable to take the loan from your salary. This is ok.

If you earn above the threshold you pay it back in increments depending on how much you earn. This is ok.

So it's ok to get in to debt for a degree if you don;t have to pay it back?

If you abide by the rules of the contract. This is ok. "

Consistent, I suppose.

So what happens if the majority don't get a job in their chosen field and doesn't pay back their loans?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So it's ok to borrow money and not repay it? Ok.

That's how the system is set up, you'd be a fool not to take advantage of it.

Shouldn't we pay for what we use? Isn't that the conservative mantra?

I've no idea. But the loan is set up in such a way that you only pay it back when you can afford to.

But you just said it's ok not to repay it... I don't follow...

Try and keep up , I'll speak louder for those at the back.

If you reach the age of 50 without repaying the loan it is written off. This is ok.

If you don't earn enough you don't pay it back. This is ok.

If you move abroad and they are unable to take the loan from your salary. This is ok.

If you earn above the threshold you pay it back in increments depending on how much you earn. This is ok.

So it's ok to get in to debt for a degree if you don;t have to pay it back?

If you abide by the rules of the contract. This is ok.

Consistent, I suppose.

So what happens if the majority don't get a job in their chosen field and doesn't pay back their loans?"

Its left to every other poor bugger on minimum wage to pick the bill up....so its ok not to pay it back.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So it's ok to borrow money and not repay it? Ok.

That's how the system is set up, you'd be a fool not to take advantage of it.

Shouldn't we pay for what we use? Isn't that the conservative mantra?

I've no idea. But the loan is set up in such a way that you only pay it back when you can afford to.

But you just said it's ok not to repay it... I don't follow...

Try and keep up , I'll speak louder for those at the back.

If you reach the age of 50 without repaying the loan it is written off. This is ok.

If you don't earn enough you don't pay it back. This is ok.

If you move abroad and they are unable to take the loan from your salary. This is ok.

If you earn above the threshold you pay it back in increments depending on how much you earn. This is ok.

So it's ok to get in to debt for a degree if you don;t have to pay it back?

If you abide by the rules of the contract. This is ok.

Consistent, I suppose.

So what happens if the majority don't get a job in their chosen field and doesn't pay back their loans?"

The government of the day will have to rethink the student loan repayment system.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So it's ok to borrow money and not repay it? Ok.

That's how the system is set up, you'd be a fool not to take advantage of it.

Shouldn't we pay for what we use? Isn't that the conservative mantra?

I've no idea. But the loan is set up in such a way that you only pay it back when you can afford to.

But you just said it's ok not to repay it... I don't follow...

Try and keep up , I'll speak louder for those at the back.

If you reach the age of 50 without repaying the loan it is written off. This is ok.

If you don't earn enough you don't pay it back. This is ok.

If you move abroad and they are unable to take the loan from your salary. This is ok.

If you earn above the threshold you pay it back in increments depending on how much you earn. This is ok.

So it's ok to get in to debt for a degree if you don;t have to pay it back?

If you abide by the rules of the contract. This is ok.

Consistent, I suppose.

So what happens if the majority don't get a job in their chosen field and doesn't pay back their loans?

Its left to every other poor bugger on minimum wage to pick the bill up....so its ok not to pay it back."

What about the minimum wage buggers who I'm subsidising on my higher wage?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Case in point. Me.

I have a BA from a Russel Group university and a Master's from one of the top universities on the planet.

I studied those subjects for the love of them and, to an extent, because my parents expected me to.

Neither of my subsequent career paths (caseworking drugs, alcohol & mental health and now in communications) have used those degrees.

Rather I have taught myself new skills and taken new opportunities as circumstance requires.

My parents must be steaming

I'm similar in that I no longer work in the field that I studied, but I recognise that my degree was necessary to work in a high earning job. Same for everyone in my company.

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

"What about the minimum wage buggers who I'm subsidising on my higher wage? "

*yawns*

General taxation supports a lot of things that I don;t agree with. Let's not get into a debate over 'benefits scum'... this is about higher education.

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

"Case in point. Me.

I have a BA from a Russel Group university and a Master's from one of the top universities on the planet.

I studied those subjects for the love of them and, to an extent, because my parents expected me to.

Neither of my subsequent career paths (caseworking drugs, alcohol & mental health and now in communications) have used those degrees.

Rather I have taught myself new skills and taken new opportunities as circumstance requires.

My parents must be steaming

I'm similar in that I no longer work in the field that I studied, but I recognise that my degree was necessary to work in a high earning job. Same for everyone in my company."

Untrue for me

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"What about the minimum wage buggers who I'm subsidising on my higher wage?

*yawns*

General taxation supports a lot of things that I don;t agree with. Let's not get into a debate over 'benefits scum'... this is about higher education."

Why can't I give the other side of why what he said was wrong... ?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The current govèrment dramitically reduced their subsudies towards universities and capped the fees at the same time. Whilst i agree the fees are far too expensive for most students you cant cut money by that amount and expect the same level of service for less money.

They have done exactly the same in local goverment and other public services. Yet the spin they put on it makes most of the public think its the sole fault of the evil local council or evil university.

When people wake up to the conservatives and the consequences of these cuts it will be too late. It probably already is.

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By *its_n_piecesCouple over a year ago

"So it's ok to borrow money and not repay it? Ok.

That's how the system is set up, you'd be a fool not to take advantage of it.

Shouldn't we pay for what we use? Isn't that the conservative mantra?

I've no idea. But the loan is set up in such a way that you only pay it back when you can afford to.

But you just said it's ok not to repay it... I don't follow...

Try and keep up , I'll speak louder for those at the back.

If you reach the age of 50 without repaying the loan it is written off. This is ok.

If you don't earn enough you don't pay it back. This is ok.

If you move abroad and they are unable to take the loan from your salary. This is ok.

If you earn above the threshold you pay it back in increments depending on how much you earn. This is ok.

So it's ok to get in to debt for a degree if you don;t have to pay it back?

If you abide by the rules of the contract. This is ok.

Consistent, I suppose.

So what happens if the majority don't get a job in their chosen field and doesn't pay back their loans?

The government of the day will have to rethink the student loan repayment system. "

nah .... they'll just sell another tranche of ten years worth of student debt to a private debt collection company like they did with the first tranche when they sold it to erudio.

they are basically like a recovery agency staffed by morons with a management team made up of T1000 Terminators.

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

"The current govèrment dramitically reduced their subsudies towards universities and capped the fees at the same time. Whilst i agree the fees are far too expensive for most students you cant cut money by that amount and expect the same level of service for less money.

When people wake up to the conservatives and the consequences of these cuts it will be too late. It probably already is. "

Ah yes!

*Those* conservatives!

I remember them from the 80s and 90s. Ah yes.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

When people wake up to the conservatives and the consequences of these cuts it will be too late. It probably already is.

Ah yes!

*Those* conservatives!

I remember them from the 80s and 90s. Ah yes.

Nothings really changed has it?

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By *imiUKMan over a year ago

Hereford

"Fuck me, this thread is depressing.

Whatever happened to "intellectual capital"?

Or learning for its own sake?"

Hippy.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

As far as the overseas students go. Without them many universities would have gone under the only reasons some russell groups unis are still up and running is because of overseas students and the money they bring in.

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

"As far as the overseas students go. Without them many universities would have gone under the only reasons some russell groups unis are still up and running is because of overseas students and the money they bring in. "

Don't the Conservatives want to reduce the number of foreigners coming to this country tho'?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

OP, you should have made the title University Fees - England; Wales & N. Ireland only

we scots don't pay

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Don't the Conservatives want to reduce the number of foreigners coming to this country tho'?"

Honestly i dont know the conservative stance. I suspect its more complex than that. Universities though want to increase the the number of foreign students xx

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I am now studying an MSc, part time over three years for £2,000 per year. I think this is a reasonable cost.

If you were looking to go to uni in the next few years, would you? "

The only reason prices went up to £9000 was to increase competition and force the crap unis to either close or merge with the better one.

It failed once, and all uni's started charging the same price and no doubt will fail again..

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I am now studying an MSc, part time over three years for £2,000 per year. I think this is a reasonable cost.

If you were looking to go to uni in the next few years, would you?

The only reason prices went up to £9000 was to increase competition and force the crap unis to either close or merge with the better one.

It failed once, and all uni's started charging the same price and no doubt will fail again.."

No the only reason was because goverment cut their funding dramatically and allowed unis to put fees upto 9 grand to make up for some of that funding.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I am a mature student, currently studying for a BA via the Open University in Wales

I study part time and I study because it interests me ...by the time I graduate I will be 53 so I am not kidding myself that they will be beating my door down with job offers

because I am on a low income I get grants to fund my learning, which consists of a tuition fee grant and a course grant...I also get a single parents learning allowance which helps with childcare costs ...

as I left school with no qualifications to speak of, the very idea of me ever going to university was pretty far fetched but I am glad I had a few careers in the real world as all that experience definitely counts for something later on in life

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The only reason prices went up to £9000 was to increase competition and force the crap unis to either close or merge with the better one.

It failed once, and all uni's started charging the same price and no doubt will fail again..

No the only reason was because goverment cut their funding dramatically and allowed unis to put fees upto 9 grand to make up for some of that funding."

Being an education student and studying all this crap for the last three years I can assure it was with the intention to close down the not very good uni's.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS over a year ago

Central

If she's working abroad she doesn't have to pay the loan back , it is deducted from your salary but they only have the facility to do this in the uk.

Wow that is good to know I never knew that. Thanks "

I believe that just because someone may live or work abroad is not an escape from the necessity to repay it. I think they have a formula for repayment that covers all countries - although no ability to take it directly from salaries abroad.

The debts can also be sold on to private debt collectors who can add their own charges plus change the rate of interest and terms of the loan.

The government changed the loans vehicle so that it would potentially be more attractive to buyers to take on the debtors in future.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The problem at the moment and not just for the UK but globally, is the lack of demand from debt repayment.

Sooner or later a debt Jubile will almost certainly be required or we'll need to push up wages by a 100% in the west.

Translation: a lot of people are at university that don't need to be.

It's only because the alternatives are generally shit that we argue they should be there.

Solution: come up with better alternatives.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The problem at the moment and not just for the UK but globally, is the lack of demand from debt repayment.

Sooner or later a debt Jubile will almost certainly be required or we'll need to push up wages by a 100% in the west.

Translation: a lot of people are at university that don't need to be.

It's only because the alternatives are generally shit that we argue they should be there.

Solution: come up with better alternatives. "
.

It's not just a UK problem, in the US the average college debt is about $100,000 and weirdly enough it's the only debt in the US I don't think you lose from going bankrupt?.

For quite some time classical economists have been far too obsessed with state debt ratios but there really not that big or problematic compared to private debt, I could be wrong but I think I remember the UK private debt to be around 280% of GDP and if that's unserviceable,I think I remember other countries being over 300%

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By *its_n_piecesCouple over a year ago

"Solution: come up with better alternatives. .

like stop selling what used to be BA courses under the pretence of them being a BSc

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The only reason prices went up to £9000 was to increase competition and force the crap unis to either close or merge with the better one.

It failed once, and all uni's started charging the same price and no doubt will fail again..

No the only reason was because goverment cut their funding dramatically and allowed unis to put fees upto 9 grand to make up for some of that funding.

Being an education student and studying all this crap for the last three years I can assure it was with the intention to close down the not very good uni's. "
one of the bonus's but i too work in this area.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Solution: come up with better alternatives. .

like stop selling what used to be BA courses under the pretence of them being a BSc"

I was actually thinking of more part time degrees integrated with jobs, 2 year degrees and (real) apprenticeships but hey ho

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Solution: come up with better alternatives. .

like stop selling what used to be BA courses under the pretence of them being a BSc

I was actually thinking of more part time degrees integrated with jobs, 2 year degrees and (real) apprenticeships but hey ho"
.

The world economy doesn't and probably never will need 2 billon degree holders, most are just worthless pieces of paper that just about hold any value out of snobbery.

What we actually need is well trained well educated school leavers with technical skills, I'm of the belief that should be perfectly possible in 12 years of education.

Sure we need really bright university educated people to do the very hard technical stuff and that's like probably about 8% of university courses which we could just give for free... Like we always did to the very brightest.

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By *imiUKMan over a year ago

Hereford

"Solution: come up with better alternatives. .

like stop selling what used to be BA courses under the pretence of them being a BSc"

Are BSc courses somehow better than BAs?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Solution: come up with better alternatives. .

like stop selling what used to be BA courses under the pretence of them being a BSc

I was actually thinking of more part time degrees integrated with jobs, 2 year degrees and (real) apprenticeships but hey ho.

The world economy doesn't and probably never will need 2 billon degree holders, most are just worthless pieces of paper that just about hold any value out of snobbery.

What we actually need is well trained well educated school leavers with technical skills, I'm of the belief that should be perfectly possible in 12 years of education.

Yeah but you and I know both know the real reason the government is so keen on degrees is to keep unemployment down.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Solution: come up with better alternatives. .

like stop selling what used to be BA courses under the pretence of them being a BSc

I was actually thinking of more part time degrees integrated with jobs, 2 year degrees and (real) apprenticeships but hey ho.

The world economy doesn't and probably never will need 2 billon degree holders, most are just worthless pieces of paper that just about hold any value out of snobbery.

What we actually need is well trained well educated school leavers with technical skills, I'm of the belief that should be perfectly possible in 12 years of education.

Yeah but you and I know both know the real reason the government is so keen on degrees is to keep unemployment down. "
.

Well the participation in work figures always show something different to the unemployment figures... At the moment we seem to have a massive downturn in both!! Which is strangely quirky

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

because i was on such a low income my kids got full loan and also grants that were available - they worked hard and achieved grades that allowed them to receive bursaries as well - they did without a lot of extras but survived and now both following their dream careers - its a means to an end and the loan is a low rate one that is only paid back if they earn a certain amount

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Those with nowt and those with gout get everything.

Those of us with a little bit just get short fingers an early grave

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By *its_n_piecesCouple over a year ago

"Solution: come up with better alternatives. .

like stop selling what used to be BA courses under the pretence of them being a BSc

Are BSc courses somehow better than BAs?"

is lamb actually better than mutton or do some folks just find lamb more appealing?

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By *winny445Man over a year ago

battersea

9 g is crazy money and that's without cost of living,

like i was never uni ready but if i was i would be worried about that money

if they said ok 9g for all of your years i could understand ie 3g a year,

people from poorer backgrounds will generally avoid getting into minimum 27g debt with this economy and the current job market.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Solution: come up with better alternatives. .

like stop selling what used to be BA courses under the pretence of them being a BSc

Are BSc courses somehow better than BAs?"

Language courses come under Arts degrees - kids are proud of them - one modern languages who is now fluent in at least 4 languages and the other in our native english with literature - what courses are 'sold' as science over art now

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By *its_n_piecesCouple over a year ago

"Solution: come up with better alternatives. .

like stop selling what used to be BA courses under the pretence of them being a BSc

Are BSc courses somehow better than BAs?

fashion, hospitality, alternative therapies, history ....

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Solution: come up with better alternatives. .

like stop selling what used to be BA courses under the pretence of them being a BSc

Are BSc courses somehow better than BAs?

fashion, hospitality, alternative therapies, history .... "

Economics

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By *its_n_piecesCouple over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 17/05/16 20:47:12]

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