FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Does our benefits system annoy you?

Does our benefits system annoy you?

By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Always a contentious issue. Many of us could end up on benefits at any time. We may be one pay packet away from it. The benefit claimants that annoy me are those that do it through each generation. Like its a right.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

No.

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By *rightonsteveMan over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

They learn from what they see and know.

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By *ungBlackTopMan over a year ago

salford

some people need government assistance even if they've never contributed anything into it. But what get's my goat is when I see how much I've been taxed to help that government benefits system. Then I think, give up and go on benefits myself.

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By *educedWoman over a year ago

Birmingham

YES IT BLOODY WELL DOES!

Don't get me started. Worked for 25 years plus. Recently made jobless (as a direct result of the austerity measures) and they're making me wait 5 weeks for a payment. That's me in arrears with rent and bills.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It is a right to have enough money to live off if you aren't employed or your employer doesn't pay you enough to live off.

It's also the law.

I don't like all the stereotypes and how they get slagged off for being perceived as something they're not. Yes some exist, but most do not.

Like people who have kids for the benefits money, er no they just neglect their kids and are shit parents, they didn't have them for the benefits though they probably had them to keep a partner (sad) or because abortion is still somewhat stigmatised, as is adoption.

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By *educedWoman over a year ago

Birmingham

Recently been made unemployed. Applied for Job seekers. Was told I would be receiving Universal Credit and as I have paid into the system for the last twenty odd years I'd get a little extra. Brilliant. Thank you very much. But I won't get paid for five weeks! Oh and I'm not entitled for the first two weeks of the claim. Also inform your landlord that you will be late with your rent (which will be minus two weeks worth of rent). You will get into debt but here contact this organisation so that you can manage your debt.

Have you got a CV? No I say! In my field, employers very rarely accept CVs. You apply via application form. You need a CV! What for? What if you apply for this job at Dixie Chicken? Why would I apply for that job? I know nothing about chicken! If you don't apply for this job at Dixie Chicken without a valid reason we will sanction you! But it's only part time! Not a valid reason. Anyway, present them with a CV. This CV is too indepth! But it lists all my experience, qualifications etc. This is not what Dixie Chicken is looking for. So what do you suggest? Condense it. Make it more relatable to a fast food environment etc etc. Don't include your highest qualifications! Why? You're over qualified! Right! Anyway, to cut a long story short applied to Dixie Chicken. Didn't get job! Bloke rang and said whilst I was a little ray of sunshine he didn't feel he had the time to train me for me to just leave! Reported to advisor who asked why I would leave said job that I didn't get. So I said it could be down to five years of hard work at university and twenty years experience in a specialist field which pays well. Okay. Have you seen this job at Shoe Zone?

From Rant Thursday a few weeks ago.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

it is extremely contentious and I usually shy away from such threads but here goes as I'm quite used to being judged by strangers by now ...;-)

I worked for the benefits agency, and later jobcentre plus, for years and saw plenty of changes by successive governments.

Now I find myself on the receiving end of the system and sadly it has not moved on since I last worked there just over 10 years ago...

I am a carer and am happy to stay at home and look after those who need me and would gladly do it for nothing but needs must and all that

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By *asokittyWoman over a year ago

Nr Worksop

Those people that talk about their tax paying for benefits. You do realise it's literally pennies that you pay toward the benefit system don't know. Not the hundreds of thousands people seem to think it is.

Maybe you should think about where all your council tax money goes as that's far more costly to you than benefits.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

From Rant Thursday a few weeks ago. "

Try telling the Job Centre that you've a Masters Degree in Astrophysics, and that you're looking for work in that field, and they just stare at you blankly

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By *hetalkingstoveMan over a year ago

London

Not really. I'm more annoyed by the rich elite who play the system to make millions they don't even need than I am some dodgy geezer getting a few hundred quid he's not entitled to.

The estimated benefit fraud is tiny compared to the estimated tax fraud.

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By *asokittyWoman over a year ago

Nr Worksop

"Not really. I'm more annoyed by the rich elite who play the system to make millions they don't even need than I am some dodgy geezer getting a few hundred quid he's not entitled to.

The estimated benefit fraud is tiny compared to the estimated tax fraud."

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Not really. I'm more annoyed by the rich elite who play the system to make millions they don't even need than I am some dodgy geezer getting a few hundred quid he's not entitled to.

The estimated benefit fraud is tiny compared to the estimated tax fraud."

i wanted to write whole wall of text about that but couldn't even be arsed any more.

it's pointless.

we've still got people who think hard work = rewards.

poor people = stupid or lazy.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The benefit system does not annoy me people who abuse it do

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I'm on benefits due to illness that atm prevents me from working. I want to get back to work but atm my doc won't allow it.

Since I've been on benifits as a single person I'm amazed at those who say that they can not suvive on what the goverment gives them. Bare in mind I'm classed as a single person so I'm on the lowest tier but I do have my daughter's with me three times a week. Most of the people who complain about not receiving enogh to live on have children so there for will get more then me. (I can't claim for my children as I'm not the sole carer). I manage my money effectively so I can pay all my bills. Feed all three of us plus the cat and have money left over for treats. So my bug bare are the people who claim that they don't have enogh to live off. I could apply for more money but I don't as I don't feel I need it. We ain't all bad. Xxx

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I'm at work now but i was out of work awhile back. it's bed room tax gets me. single guy you only get about £64 then they deduct so much off because bedroom tax.there no point in signing on

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I'm at work now but i was out of work awhile back. it's bed room tax gets me. single guy you only get about £64 then they deduct so much off because bedroom tax.there no point in signing on"

The deduction for the unusued bedrooms.comes off housing alowance doesnt it?

Where the heck sre you staying with rent of 64 quid?

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By *asokittyWoman over a year ago

Nr Worksop

"I'm at work now but i was out of work awhile back. it's bed room tax gets me. single guy you only get about £64 then they deduct so much off because bedroom tax.there no point in signing on

The deduction for the unusued bedrooms.comes off housing alowance doesnt it?

Where the heck sre you staying with rent of 64 quid?"

No it doesn't. My mother has to pay £25 per week out of her weekly benefits. Despite downgrading to a smaller flat but they didn't have one room places she could only get a 2 bedroom flat therefore still having to pay 'bedroom tax' anyway.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I don't think it's fair that single men have no chance of getting a council house or flat as single mums or addicts etc get to top of the list.

A friend of mine who has fallen on hard times lost his job wife divorced him and kept the family home etc.

He now has a future of living in HMO's IE bedsit land as he will never be able to get a council property and been told so by the council.

It's not fair that single guys should be at the back of the queue where council housing is concerned.

Another way that the single guy seems to get treated unfairly.

Boooo

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By *asokittyWoman over a year ago

Nr Worksop

He's been told wrong. He can get a flat but it will be a longer wait (which I agree is unfair)

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I'm at work now but i was out of work awhile back. it's bed room tax gets me. single guy you only get about £64 then they deduct so much off because bedroom tax.there no point in signing on

The deduction for the unusued bedrooms.comes off housing alowance doesnt it?

Where the heck sre you staying with rent of 64 quid?"

I think he means he can only claim £64 a week in benefits not that his rents £64 a week

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"He's been told wrong. He can get a flat but it will be a longer wait (which I agree is unfair)"

A longer wait of never in reality.

I've been on the waiting list since I was 24

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By *asokittyWoman over a year ago

Nr Worksop

"He's been told wrong. He can get a flat but it will be a longer wait (which I agree is unfair)

A longer wait of never in reality.

I've been on the waiting list since I was 24

That's shocking

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"He's been told wrong. He can get a flat but it will be a longer wait (which I agree is unfair)

A longer wait of never in reality.

I've been on the waiting list since I was 24

you have to hassle them. nobody 'gets' housed because there's a shortage for everyone.

hassling them is things like getting other people to back up your need for housing on your behalf or just keep going in and asking where you are on the list, moan about why there's a shortage of housing, also if you have nay circumstances that make you more 'needy' then play on those.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"He's been told wrong. He can get a flat but it will be a longer wait (which I agree is unfair)

A longer wait of never in reality.

I've been on the waiting list since I was 24

That's shocking

Very.

Most HMO'S are filled with young men or middle aged men as healthy single guys with no children in reality have nxt to zero chance of ever securing a council property.

Where's the equality in that ??

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By *asokittyWoman over a year ago

Nr Worksop

"He's been told wrong. He can get a flat but it will be a longer wait (which I agree is unfair)

A longer wait of never in reality.

I've been on the waiting list since I was 24

That's shocking

Very.

Most HMO'S are filled with young men or middle aged men as healthy single guys with no children in reality have nxt to zero chance of ever securing a council property.

Where's the equality in that ??"

To he fair, playing devils advocate, why would they forever need a council house. There are lots of private rent flats out there

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By *educedWoman over a year ago

Birmingham

"I don't think it's fair that single men have no chance of getting a council house or flat as single mums or addicts etc get to top of the list.

A friend of mine who has fallen on hard times lost his job wife divorced him and kept the family home etc.

He now has a future of living in HMO's IE bedsit land as he will never be able to get a council property and been told so by the council.

It's not fair that single guys should be at the back of the queue where council housing is concerned.

Another way that the single guy seems to get treated unfairly.

Boooo "

Not just single guys unfortunately.

I was homeless for a year and slept on my sons living room floor. This they deemed was adequate shelter. Because I was in employment I couldn't afford to move into emergency accommodation which would of helped me because I was liable for my own rent. Some hostels were charging 250 per week and I earned slightly more than allowed for HB top up.

Eventually I saved enough money for the extortionate amounts of money needed to rent privately.

I've been on the waiting list since 2010 and have been told it's unlikely I will ever get social housing because I no longer have dependants.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I think the system is pretty good, faults do occur but on whole it's good.

Reliance on benefits when not necessary is a social issue. Reliance on council housing is too. I've had colleagues on similar wages as me on the waiting list receive housing, even though we could have all rented privately with ease.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I don't think it's fair that single men have no chance of getting a council house or flat as single mums or addicts etc get to top of the list.

A friend of mine who has fallen on hard times lost his job wife divorced him and kept the family home etc.

He now has a future of living in HMO's IE bedsit land as he will never be able to get a council property and been told so by the council.

It's not fair that single guys should be at the back of the queue where council housing is concerned.

Another way that the single guy seems to get treated unfairly.

Boooo

Not just single guys unfortunately.

Eventually I saved enough money for the extortionate amounts of money needed to rent privately.

I've been on the waiting list since 2010 and have been told it's unlikely I will ever get social housing because I no longer have dependants. "

Not fair is it

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

i've been homeless while pregnant and with a young child. will just repeat there is a shortage of housing for everyone.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

No because neither of us are entitled to claim benefits.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I'm on benefits due to illness that atm prevents me from working. I want to get back to work but atm my doc won't allow it.

This is my experience too, only I have two children as well. I'm working now but while I was on ESA, then JSA as I had my illness under control, I could feed us all and pay my bills. I was lucky enough to get child maintenance so the kids were well provided for, but there wasn't any money left over for treats. We were warm and fed and that was enough.

The amount of assessments and appointments required in order to claim any kind of benefit means it must be nigh on impossible to play the system. I just don't see how it can happen.

Nell

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I don't think it's fair that single men have no chance of getting a council house or flat as single mums or addicts etc get to top of the list.

A friend of mine who has fallen on hard times lost his job wife divorced him and kept the family home etc.

He now has a future of living in HMO's IE bedsit land as he will never be able to get a council property and been told so by the council.

It's not fair that single guys should be at the back of the queue where council housing is concerned.

Another way that the single guy seems to get treated unfairly.

Boooo "

It would be the same for a single female. If the single male had a child and was a single fathers he would be treated as a priority.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"i've been homeless while pregnant and with a young child. will just repeat there is a shortage of housing for everyone."

Bet you went to the top of the list because you have child though and managed to get a council property??

And if you haven't managed to get a council property you will though won't you?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 27/04/16 15:10:57]

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By *educedWoman over a year ago

Birmingham

"He's been told wrong. He can get a flat but it will be a longer wait (which I agree is unfair)

A longer wait of never in reality.

I've been on the waiting list since I was 24

That's shocking

Very.

Most HMO'S are filled with young men or middle aged men as healthy single guys with no children in reality have nxt to zero chance of ever securing a council property.

Where's the equality in that ??

To he fair, playing devils advocate, why would they forever need a council house. There are lots of private rent flats out there "

If you earn lots of money then yes loads of private lets. So, you fork out for security deposits, lettings agents fees, a months rent in advance...1800 I forked out and it all depends on where you live in the country and costs differ.

I rent a bed sit because that's all I can afford. It's not a home it's just a place for me to sleep.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"He's been told wrong. He can get a flat but it will be a longer wait (which I agree is unfair)

A longer wait of never in reality.

I've been on the waiting list since I was 24

That's shocking

Very.

Most HMO'S are filled with young men or middle aged men as healthy single guys with no children in reality have nxt to zero chance of ever securing a council property.

Where's the equality in that ??

To he fair, playing devils advocate, why would they forever need a council house. There are lots of private rent flats out there "

Not everybody can afford to move into private rent, my daugher has moved into a one bedroomed flat it cost her over £1200 to move in, with the bond, fees and the rent up front, it costs nothing to move into a council property, just your weeks rent for the first week you move in

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By *educedWoman over a year ago

Birmingham

"I don't think it's fair that single men have no chance of getting a council house or flat as single mums or addicts etc get to top of the list.

A friend of mine who has fallen on hard times lost his job wife divorced him and kept the family home etc.

He now has a future of living in HMO's IE bedsit land as he will never be able to get a council property and been told so by the council.

It's not fair that single guys should be at the back of the queue where council housing is concerned.

Another way that the single guy seems to get treated unfairly.

Boooo

Not just single guys unfortunately.

Eventually I saved enough money for the extortionate amounts of money needed to rent privately.

I've been on the waiting list since 2010 and have been told it's unlikely I will ever get social housing because I no longer have dependants.

Not fair is it

No its not. But I'm lucky. I'm resourceful and have support. Lots of people are not and the system is failing them!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I'm on benefits due to illness that atm prevents me from working. I want to get back to work but atm my doc won't allow it.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"i've been homeless while pregnant and with a young child. will just repeat there is a shortage of housing for everyone.

Bet you went to the top of the list because you have child though and managed to get a council property??

And if you haven't managed to get a council property you will though won't you? "

no. they didn't even put me on the list.

it's a myth that they have to help anyone get housed, and there are priorities but when there's 0 housing then nobody is really a priority because they get nothing.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I don't think it's fair that single men have no chance of getting a council house or flat as single mums or addicts etc get to top of the list.

A friend of mine who has fallen on hard times lost his job wife divorced him and kept the family home etc.

He now has a future of living in HMO's IE bedsit land as he will never be able to get a council property and been told so by the council.

It's not fair that single guys should be at the back of the queue where council housing is concerned.

Another way that the single guy seems to get treated unfairly.

Boooo

Not just single guys unfortunately.

Eventually I saved enough money for the extortionate amounts of money needed to rent privately.

I've been on the waiting list since 2010 and have been told it's unlikely I will ever get social housing because I no longer have dependants.

Not fair is it

No its not. But I'm lucky. I'm resourceful and have support. Lots of people are not and the system is failing them! "

Well said that girl

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Did write a long piece, but quite frankly I'm fed up with being viewed as a lefty loon.

Let's just say I know a lot of tradesmen who moan about the benefits system, but don't out every job they do through the books

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

the only way to get housed now is by exploiting the housing system. by making yourself more important than anyone else waiting for a home because you're up against thousands.

i used equality laws to get housed, but i half bullshitted as well. because they do not have any obligation to house anyone, nobody would be homeless otherwise.

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By *asokittyWoman over a year ago

Nr Worksop

"I'm on benefits due to illness that atm prevents me from working. I want to get back to work but atm my doc won't allow it.

If you have a sick note then you are not insured to be in work. You have to be signed off by the gp

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By *educedWoman over a year ago

Birmingham

From Rant Thursday a few weeks ago.

Try telling the Job Centre that you've a Masters Degree in Astrophysics, and that you're looking for work in that field, and they just stare at you blankly

They suggested I remove my degrees from my CV. It makes me less employable apparently. I refused!

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By *asokittyWoman over a year ago

Nr Worksop

"Did write a long piece, but quite frankly I'm fed up with being viewed as a lefty loon.

Let's just say I know a lot of tradesmen who moan about the benefits system, but don't out every job they do through the books"

*raises hand* fellow lefty loon here too.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I'm on benefits due to illness that atm prevents me from working. I want to get back to work but atm my doc won't allow it.

If you have a sick note then you are not insured to be in work. You have to be signed off by the gp"
you still have the option of telling the doc you feel ABLE to work. at the end of the day they cant force you to stay on a sick note. they can advise but cannot force you to stay on the sick

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I'm on benefits due to illness that atm prevents me from working. I want to get back to work but atm my doc won't allow it.

The amount of assessments and appointments required in order to claim any kind of benefit means it must be nigh on impossible to play the system. I just don't see how it can happen.

Nell"

Me either I've been put on long term I don't want to be on long term but because of my problems I end up out of work anyway so I just end up going round in circles. That in turns makes me worse hence why my doc has "put his foot down" with me.

I think it's who people see treats too. I don't have a landline internet or "posh" telly. Tbh I don't want it. My treats are bath bombs and sweets lol. Xxx

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I worked for a housing association for 8 years, it's the people who don't work, claim all the benefits they can and only have to pay the shortfall of their rent usually not even a fiver who then manage to fall into thousands of pounds of rent arrears but have a new car in the drive and a massive Tvs with sky in every room. Those are the people on benefits who annoy me and then have the nerve to scream and shout at me when "they pay my wages" errmmm no actually i and every other hard worker pay for you to live!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

hsort term being on benefits isn't too bad tbh. it's long term benefits where you start struggling.

once things start to need replacing in your home (like your washing machine), that's when you end up fucked.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"He's been told wrong. He can get a flat but it will be a longer wait (which I agree is unfair)

A longer wait of never in reality.

I've been on the waiting list since I was 24

That's shocking

Very.

Most HMO'S are filled with young men or middle aged men as healthy single guys with no children in reality have nxt to zero chance of ever securing a council property.

Where's the equality in that ??

To he fair, playing devils advocate, why would they forever need a council house. There are lots of private rent flats out there

Well said

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I'm on benefits due to illness that atm prevents me from working. I want to get back to work but atm my doc won't allow it.

Yes. My doc is correct tho I shouldn't work atm as it makes my problems worse. I've been fighting it stubornly for a long time. Xx

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By *educedWoman over a year ago

Birmingham

"I'm on benefits due to illness that atm prevents me from working. I want to get back to work but atm my doc won't allow it.

The amount of assessments and appointments required in order to claim any kind of benefit means it must be nigh on impossible to play the system. I just don't see how it can happen.

Nell

I think it's who people see treats too. I don't have a landline internet or "posh" telly. Tbh I don't want it. My treats are bath bombs and sweets lol. Xxx"

I've been unemployed for four weeks now and the 60 inch plasma TV and Sky Package has not been forthcoming. I'm gonna write a scathing letter of complaint to the Daily Fail!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I'm on benefits due to illness that atm prevents me from working. I want to get back to work but atm my doc won't allow it.

The amount of assessments and appointments required in order to claim any kind of benefit means it must be nigh on impossible to play the system. I just don't see how it can happen.

Nell

I think it's who people see treats too. I don't have a landline internet or "posh" telly. Tbh I don't want it. My treats are bath bombs and sweets lol. Xxx

I've been unemployed for four weeks now and the 60 inch plasma TV and Sky Package has not been forthcoming. I'm gonna write a scathing letter of complaint to the Daily Fail! "

Hahaha when I walk thro rhyl n the sky man asks if I have sky n i say no and I don't want it thank you he looks at me like I'm prehistoric. Btw nor do i want a car!!!! Xxxx

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I'm at work now but i was out of work awhile back. it's bed room tax gets me. single guy you only get about £64 then they deduct so much off because bedroom tax.there no point in signing on

The deduction for the unusued bedrooms.comes off housing alowance doesnt it?

Where the heck sre you staying with rent of 64 quid?

No they dont charge you they reduce the amount of housing benifit you get.

So hes getting way more than 64 hes just being asked to subiside his house

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I'm at work now but i was out of work awhile back. it's bed room tax gets me. single guy you only get about £64 then they deduct so much off because bedroom tax.there no point in signing on

The deduction for the unusued bedrooms.comes off housing alowance doesnt it?

Where the heck sre you staying with rent of 64 quid?

I think he means he can only claim £64 a week in benefits not that his rents £64 a week"

If hes being hit for "bedroom tax" hes claiming a lot more than 64 a week its just not cash in his hand

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By *asokittyWoman over a year ago

Nr Worksop

"I'm at work now but i was out of work awhile back. it's bed room tax gets me. single guy you only get about £64 then they deduct so much off because bedroom tax.there no point in signing on

The deduction for the unusued bedrooms.comes off housing alowance doesnt it?

Where the heck sre you staying with rent of 64 quid?

No they dont charge you they reduce the amount of housing benifit you get.

So hes getting way more than 64 hes just being asked to subiside his house"

Yes they do.

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By *educedWoman over a year ago

Birmingham

"I'm at work now but i was out of work awhile back. it's bed room tax gets me. single guy you only get about £64 then they deduct so much off because bedroom tax.there no point in signing on

The deduction for the unusued bedrooms.comes off housing alowance doesnt it?

Where the heck sre you staying with rent of 64 quid?

I think he means he can only claim £64 a week in benefits not that his rents £64 a week

If hes being hit for "bedroom tax" hes claiming a lot more than 64 a week its just not cash in his hand"

Or that he was only left with 64 quid in terms of money in his hand from his JSA after topping up his rent deficit as a result of the bedroom tax.

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By *educedWoman over a year ago

Birmingham

"I'm at work now but i was out of work awhile back. it's bed room tax gets me. single guy you only get about £64 then they deduct so much off because bedroom tax.there no point in signing on

The deduction for the unusued bedrooms.comes off housing alowance doesnt it?

Where the heck sre you staying with rent of 64 quid?

No they dont charge you they reduce the amount of housing benifit you get.

So hes getting way more than 64 hes just being asked to subiside his house

Yes they do."

Payments from Housing and Council Tax Benefits are still benefits paid to you for you even if you don't get to see the cash.

Sane with free school meals, free prescriptions, eye tests, glasses, dentistry. It's all got to be paid for.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Not everybody can afford to move into private rent, my daugher has moved into a one bedroomed flat it cost her over £1200 to move in, with the bond, fees and the rent up front, it costs nothing to move into a council property, just your weeks rent for the first week you move in"

I don't think £1200 is a lot to get yourself out of your parental home and set up, and I don't see why around 1-2 months of wages can't be saved in between 16-18 years old to support themselves financially.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Yes the system annoys me.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

if he's on UC then that gets capped to a certain amount by DWP, if on JSA then he's entitled to that money but his housing benefit will be separate from this and the local authority places a limit on how much of that you can claim, this limit depends on the amount of rooms you're occupying.

so if on JSA he might not be entitled to full rent and have to pay some of it out of his benefits.

if on UC circumstances might be different.

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By *inaTitzTV/TS over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

Totally, I don't see why the royal family should be paid by the tax payer when they are already rich, nor do I see why MPs should have their expenses paid.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Always a contentious issue. Many of us could end up on benefits at any time. We may be one pay packet away from it. The benefit claimants that annoy me are those that do it through each generation. Like its a right."
There are very few who dont receive some sort of benefit. The NHS is a benefit as is education, child benefit, marriage allowance and a myriad of other similar benefits. How many families do you personally know who have claimed benefits through generations ? what do you know about their personal circumstances to judge people ? The govt ran a very succesful propaganda campaign against people on benefits and I can't help wonder what you actually know opposed to what bull shit you have been fed as facts.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Always a contentious issue. Many of us could end up on benefits at any time. We may be one pay packet away from it. The benefit claimants that annoy me are those that do it through each generation. Like its a right.There are very few who dont receive some sort of benefit. The NHS is a benefit as is education, child benefit, marriage allowance and a myriad of other similar benefits. How many families do you personally know who have claimed benefits through generations ? what do you know about their personal circumstances to judge people ? The govt ran a very succesful propaganda campaign against people on benefits and I can't help wonder what you actually know opposed to what bull shit you have been fed as facts."

Children have a right to education, it's not a benefit.

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By *adyboy-DaddyCouple over a year ago

Andover

"Those people that talk about their tax paying for benefits. You do realise it's literally pennies that you pay toward the benefit system don't know. Not the hundreds of thousands people seem to think it is.

Maybe you should think about where all your council tax money goes as that's far more costly to you than benefits. "

Literally pennies??????

Welfare bill (not inc pensions) is over 20% of govt expenditure.

So each month a pay around £300 into the benefits pot.

That's a hell of a lot of pennies.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Maybe you should think about where all your council tax money goes as that's far more costly to you than benefits.

Literally pennies??????

Welfare bill (not inc pensions) is over 20% of govt expenditure.

So each month a pay around £300 into the benefits pot.

That's a hell of a lot of pennies. "

A lot of us will have received breakdowns on how our tax payments are spent. You're right, it's not pennies. It's around 23%, and for some of us that is thousands of pounds.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"YES IT BLOODY WELL DOES!

no way you've worked 25 years, you look too young

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By *educedWoman over a year ago

Birmingham

"YES IT BLOODY WELL DOES!

no way you've worked 25 years, you look too young"

Ahh you smooth talker

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I dony think about it much im lucky enough to have always been employed. Is it thr system or thr people that scam it though?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

What gets me is the other end of the spectrum my dad who has worked all his life is battling cancer back and forth to endless doctors appointments and addenbrooks cant claim a penny as he has savings. So what's the point in savings or pensions when it comes to later stages of life x

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"What gets me is the other end of the spectrum my dad who has worked all his life is battling cancer back and forth to endless doctors appointments and addenbrooks cant claim a penny as he has savings. So what's the point in savings or pensions when it comes to later stages of life x"

Why does he need to claim anything if he has financial resources?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

From Rant Thursday a few weeks ago.

Try telling the Job Centre that you've a Masters Degree in Astrophysics, and that you're looking for work in that field, and they just stare at you blankly

They suggested I remove my degrees from my CV. It makes me less employable apparently. I refused! "

when I was looking for work I was told I had too much experience and was overqualified and could I dumb down my CV!!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

its part of the UK and you never know when you or anyone else will need it

anyone that doesn't like it - as part of the UK is free to leave (the UK) if they have the balls and finance to get up and go

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Why does he need to claim anything if he has financial resources?"

He has savings but not a lot which he is living off at the moment and my mum is his carer. Savings will soon go x

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I don't often post so forgive me for wading in but had this exact conversation with a friend.

I've been fortunate that i've never had to claim benefits. I've worked all of my adult life and when i've been out of work, i've been able to cut back enough to survive until i was working again. I strongly believe that we should have a benefits system for those in need. Whether their need is short or long term is not for me to judge and there is no doubt that the system we have has significant flaws.

My biggest issue is that drawing on benefits system is a seen by many as a right. A human right. Something that they deserve because they exist. I appreciate that there is probably a legal standing that will back that up in some way, but i see our benefits system as a privilege. A privilege which should be entirely withdrawn if abused.

I'm probably more conservative than most. Coming from an immigrant family i was taught that the benefits system is for people who NEED it. Not for those who are too proud to take a cleaning job because they consider it beneath them. Not for those who think having a child is a better option for getting their own flat than working and paying for it. Not for those who think a sore ankle is an excuse for the benefits system to pay for their Sky TV and mobile phone.

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By *errygTV/TS over a year ago

denton

in a local pub where all the drinkers are in all day and dont work, when you come out of work there was a bloke in there who would fill out all the forms for a few pints, he knew every dodge there was, and could give better advice than the job center

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I dony think about it much im lucky enough to have always been employed. Is it thr system or thr people that scam it though?"

I worked for the benefit fraud investigation service for a number of years...in Salford! we used to regularly go out and check companies who paid workers cash in hand and also giro and order book fraud was rife but it all gets paid into banks now...to be honest if people want to scam the system they will always find a way

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By *ervent_fervourMan over a year ago

Halifax

Yeah. I hate how we pay for the rich's tax fucking breaks.

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By *adyboy-DaddyCouple over a year ago

Andover

"Yeah. I hate how we pay for the rich's tax fucking breaks."

Not sure what that's got to do with the subject.

You do realise it's the rich people that pay the majority of tax the govt spend?

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By *ervent_fervourMan over a year ago

Halifax

"Yeah. I hate how we pay for the rich's tax fucking breaks.

Not sure what that's got to do with the subject.

You do realise it's the rich people that pay the majority of tax the govt spend?"

Tut. Because they're benefitting...

No I don't think they do you know.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Why does he need to claim anything if he has financial resources?

He has savings but not a lot which he is living off at the moment and my mum is his carer. Savings will soon go x"

If he has been sick now for 3 months get him to try to claim again. He should be entitled to PIP. Get them to call for the forms asap as you can get back paid from the day you phone up.

If he gets PIP, and he should be able to, there's a whole host of other benefits he could also get (and your mum as a carer), and their tax bills will go down as well.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I dony think about it much im lucky enough to have always been employed. Is it thr system or thr people that scam it though?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Maybe you should think about where all your council tax money goes as that's far more costly to you than benefits.

Literally pennies??????

Welfare bill (not inc pensions) is over 20% of govt expenditure.

So each month a pay around £300 into the benefits pot.

That's a hell of a lot of pennies.

A lot of us will have received breakdowns on how our tax payments are spent. You're right, it's not pennies. It's around 23%, and for some of us that is thousands of pounds. "
.

You'll probably find about 18% of that 23% figure will be state pensions

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I don't think it's fair that single men have no chance of getting a council house or flat as single mums or addicts etc get to top of the list.

A friend of mine who has fallen on hard times lost his job wife divorced him and kept the family home etc.

He now has a future of living in HMO's IE bedsit land as he will never be able to get a council property and been told so by the council.

It's not fair that single guys should be at the back of the queue where council housing is concerned.

Another way that the single guy seems to get treated unfairly.

Boooo

It would be the same for a single female. If the single male had a child and was a single fathers he would be treated as a priority. "

This. There's a shortage of one bed properties. That's one of the problems. Universal credit is going to make the benefits system harder for many to manage. And the housing benefit for under 36 is being capped I think so only pays for a bedsit. So this will make getting housed harder under that age as a single person.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Why does he need to claim anything if he has financial resources?

He has savings but not a lot which he is living off at the moment and my mum is his carer. Savings will soon go x"

When he reaches the lower threshold, he can apply again. He won't be left completely broke but he has to support himself if he can as it's not a free for all.

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By *ervent_fervourMan over a year ago

Halifax

Maybe you should think about where all your council tax money goes as that's far more costly to you than benefits.

Literally pennies??????

Welfare bill (not inc pensions) is over 20% of govt expenditure.

So each month a pay around £300 into the benefits pot.

That's a hell of a lot of pennies.

A lot of us will have received breakdowns on how our tax payments are spent. You're right, it's not pennies. It's around 23%, and for some of us that is thousands of pounds. .

You'll probably find about 18% of that 23% figure will be state pensions

Shh. Don't tell the right wingers. Their whole outlook bubble on life(politically at least)will be popped.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Maybe you should think about where all your council tax money goes as that's far more costly to you than benefits.

Literally pennies??????

Welfare bill (not inc pensions) is over 20% of govt expenditure.

So each month a pay around £300 into the benefits pot.

That's a hell of a lot of pennies.

A lot of us will have received breakdowns on how our tax payments are spent. You're right, it's not pennies. It's around 23%, and for some of us that is thousands of pounds. .

You'll probably find about 18% of that 23% figure will be state pensions

I don't think that's true - 42% of my welfare goes to the elderly and 21% goes to working families, 3% on benefits, and that's still a significant amount of my tax. I also hope you're not confusing this as resentment, it's not, it's just inaccurate to claim we only contribute pennies.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Maybe you should think about where all your council tax money goes as that's far more costly to you than benefits.

Literally pennies??????

Welfare bill (not inc pensions) is over 20% of govt expenditure.

So each month a pay around £300 into the benefits pot.

That's a hell of a lot of pennies.

A lot of us will have received breakdowns on how our tax payments are spent. You're right, it's not pennies. It's around 23%, and for some of us that is thousands of pounds. .

You'll probably find about 18% of that 23% figure will be state pensions

Shh. Don't tell the right wingers. Their whole outlook bubble on life(politically at least)will be popped. "

He's wrong FYI.

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By *adyboy-DaddyCouple over a year ago

Andover

Maybe you should think about where all your council tax money goes as that's far more costly to you than benefits.

Literally pennies??????

Welfare bill (not inc pensions) is over 20% of govt expenditure.

So each month a pay around £300 into the benefits pot.

That's a hell of a lot of pennies.

A lot of us will have received breakdowns on how our tax payments are spent. You're right, it's not pennies. It's around 23%, and for some of us that is thousands of pounds. .

You'll probably find about 18% of that 23% figure will be state pensions

Nope. Like I said, that's excluding pensions, which is around 20%nof total spend.

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By *ervent_fervourMan over a year ago

Halifax

Fair enough. I've seen figures banded about in the past and thought it was pretty minimal in the context of the total we contribute. Will do some sniffing around.

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By *adyboy-DaddyCouple over a year ago

Andover

Love the judgemental attitudes here.

I have given no opinion on benefits, just pointed out some facts that you can all find on google.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I've been lucky to never have to seek benefits.

I have set up businesses, helped create jobs, pay those employees, pay tax, social insurance and after all are paid have nothing for myself some months. When I had to close down the business, the employees got benefits, and I as self employed was entitled to NOTHING. I would have to wait two years and then be offer a fraction of current benefits. I was left with no choice but to get up and go at it again and through hard work, some luck and great employees the wheel turns again. Seeking benefits is an absolute last resort for me and I hope I can continue to avoid that scenario.

I do not like paying tax that is used unwisely. I do believe if a person is on benefits and can afford to by drugs, alcohol and cigarettes then they should not be getting any!!!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Maybe you should think about where all your council tax money goes as that's far more costly to you than benefits.

Literally pennies??????

Welfare bill (not inc pensions) is over 20% of govt expenditure.

So each month a pay around £300 into the benefits pot.

That's a hell of a lot of pennies. "
.

I just looked on gov.co.uk...

DWP spending was 23% of government expenditure totaling 171 billon of that 171 billon 93 billon was paid out in pensions, so the DWP minus pensions is around 11.5% of government expenditure

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Fair enough. I've seen figures banded about in the past and thought it was pretty minimal in the context of the total we contribute. Will do some sniffing around."

Unite have some figures easily found on Google.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Love the judgemental attitudes here.

I have given no opinion on benefits, just pointed out some facts that you can all find on google.

"
.

I've just corrected one of your facts!

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By *adyboy-DaddyCouple over a year ago

Andover

"Yeah. I hate how we pay for the rich's tax fucking breaks.

Not sure what that's got to do with the subject.

You do realise it's the rich people that pay the majority of tax the govt spend?

Tut. Because they're benefitting...

No I don't think they do you know."

Again, really easy stuff to look up.

The wealthiest 10% of taxpayers pay 55% of the total govt tax bill.

Thank good for rich people! Without them those of us on moderate incomes would be far worse off.

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By *ervent_fervourMan over a year ago

Halifax

Fair enough. I've seen figures banded about in the past and thought it was pretty minimal in the context of the total we contribute. Will do some sniffing around.

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By *adyboy-DaddyCouple over a year ago

Andover

"Love the judgemental attitudes here.

I have given no opinion on benefits, just pointed out some facts that you can all find on google.

I've just corrected one of your facts!"

Not sure how, I pointed out that pensions spending was around 20% and you pointed out that the DWP expenditure was 23%. Supporting what I said.

And none of that changes the benefit bill being over 20%.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Yeah. I hate how we pay for the rich's tax fucking breaks.

Not sure what that's got to do with the subject.

You do realise it's the rich people that pay the majority of tax the govt spend?

Tut. Because they're benefitting...

No I don't think they do you know.

Again, really easy stuff to look up.

The wealthiest 10% of taxpayers pay 55% of the total govt tax bill.

Thank good for rich people! Without them those of us on moderate incomes would be far worse off.

In addition to this point, it's unfair to claim all rich people avoid tax as much as possible. There are honest rich people and there are definitely honest high earners.

Just cos someone is jealous of another's wealth, it doesn't mean it's ill gotten gains.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Yeah. I hate how we pay for the rich's tax fucking breaks.

Not sure what that's got to do with the subject.

You do realise it's the rich people that pay the majority of tax the govt spend?

Tut. Because they're benefitting...

No I don't think they do you know.

Again, really easy stuff to look up.

The wealthiest 10% of taxpayers pay 55% of the total govt tax bill.

Thank good for rich people! Without them those of us on moderate incomes would be far worse off.

"
.

Well I'm looking it up on the ifs PDF download for 2014 .

Income tax was 22%

Vat 21%

Ni was 17%

Corporation tax 6%

Fuel duty 5%

UK adult population of around 52.4 million, it is estimated that there

will be 29.9 million income tax payers in 2014–15. Around 4.6 million of

these will pay tax at the higher rate, providing 38.5% of total income tax

revenue, and 343,000 taxpayers will pay tax at the additional rate,

providing 28.9% of total income tax revenue

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Love the judgemental attitudes here.

I have given no opinion on benefits, just pointed out some facts that you can all find on google.

I've just corrected one of your facts!

Not sure how, I pointed out that pensions spending was around 20% and you pointed out that the DWP expenditure was 23%. Supporting what I said.

And none of that changes the benefit bill being over 20%. "
.

Your misleading

Benefit bill less pensions was 11.5% of government expenditure

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Yeah. I hate how we pay for the rich's tax fucking breaks.

Not sure what that's got to do with the subject.

You do realise it's the rich people that pay the majority of tax the govt spend?

Tut. Because they're benefitting...

No I don't think they do you know.

Again, really easy stuff to look up.

The wealthiest 10% of taxpayers pay 55% of the total govt tax bill.

Thank good for rich people! Without them those of us on moderate incomes would be far worse off.

In addition to this point, it's unfair to claim all rich people avoid tax as much as possible. There are honest rich people and there are definitely honest high earners.

Just cos someone is jealous of another's wealth, it doesn't mean it's ill gotten gains. "
.

That's just a random bullshit statement... She didn't define "rich" or "moderate".

Nobody mentioned jealousy.

And none of her "googled claims" are even remotely accurate

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By *ervent_fervourMan over a year ago

Halifax

Right. According to the Guardian's research, the DWP spent £166.98bn in 2011-12, 159 of which on benefits, and which is 23% of all public spending.

Council tax benefit is 4.8 bill of that, housing benefit 17 bill,jobseekers allowance is less than 5. There's various other benefits too, obviously(some of which I have no idea what they are admittedly) but 'benefits' which are defrauded was 1.3 bill(c/o House of Commons Library via parliament.co.uk).

Hang on. Back of an envelope required here!

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By *rednginger1Couple over a year ago

Cramlington

A couple few door away from thet kid with one problem or the other and get load's of funding by the why of benfits but they keep having more kids he's about 8 stone wet though she's about24 stone on dry day they have take aways deliverd 6 to 7 day a week sometimes twice in one night then I saw them in the shops with about £150.00 of bozz in there trolly .also as mobilty mini bus but cn afford to buy the old 62 plate of mobilty so as to car /mini bus

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By *ervent_fervourMan over a year ago

Halifax

"Love the judgemental attitudes here.

I have given no opinion on benefits, just pointed out some facts that you can all find on google.

I've just corrected one of your facts!

Not sure how, I pointed out that pensions spending was around 20% and you pointed out that the DWP expenditure was 23%. Supporting what I said.

And none of that changes the benefit bill being over 20%. "

So. Of the total public spending, %age of total spemt on the following is as, er, follows:

'benefits'(ie unemployment, housing, council tax and fraud):4.22 %

That's 4.22 % of total public expenditure on the above benefits.

Jobseekers(which i assume is 'unemployment' benefit) : 0.75 of total public spending.

I may have got mixed up with something, but feel free to check it out.

Also, using the above, defrauding the state via benfits is, as stated, 1.3 bill(although I'm sure some fraud isn't acounted for unless the Daily Mail or Scum get hold of something..).

This loses 0.20 % of total public spending.

So yeah. Benefits (for who I personally would term as undeserving 'scroungers' IS annoying. But probably costs me at most a couple of quid a year..).

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By *isscheekychopsWoman over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

It never did in the first place

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By *rednginger1Couple over a year ago

Cramlington

[Removed by poster at 27/04/16 17:59:24]

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By *rednginger1Couple over a year ago

Cramlington

[Removed by poster at 27/04/16 18:00:31]

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By *ervent_fervourMan over a year ago

Halifax

Soz. Of the above the Guardian figures were for 2011/12, and the direct from gov stuff was from lst year I think(just in case there were people scratching their heads at differences in total bills spent according to diff posters).

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Yeah. I hate how we pay for the rich's tax fucking breaks.

Not sure what that's got to do with the subject.

You do realise it's the rich people that pay the majority of tax the govt spend?

Tut. Because they're benefitting...

No I don't think they do you know.

Again, really easy stuff to look up.

The wealthiest 10% of taxpayers pay 55% of the total govt tax bill.

Thank good for rich people! Without them those of us on moderate incomes would be far worse off.

In addition to this point, it's unfair to claim all rich people avoid tax as much as possible. There are honest rich people and there are definitely honest high earners.

Just cos someone is jealous of another's wealth, it doesn't mean it's ill gotten gains. .

That's just a random bullshit statement... She didn't define "rich" or "moderate".

Nobody mentioned jealousy.

And none of her "googled claims" are even remotely accurate"

I'd ask for a impartial response on how it's "bullshit" but you seem unable to give them. Just move on.

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

Why do these benefits threads turn so nasty?

Why do people dislike the idea of someone getting money to which they are entitled?

I don;t get the problem

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By *rednginger1Couple over a year ago

Cramlington

A couple few door away from us that kid with one problem or the other and get load's of funding by the why of benfits but they keep having more kids he's about 8 stone wet though she's about24 stone on dry day they have take aways deliverd 6 to 7 a week sometimes twice in one night then I saw them in the shops with about £150.00 of bozz in there trolly .also as mobilty mini bus but can afford to buy the old 62 plate of mobilty so as two car /mini bus

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Why do these benefits threads turn so nasty?

Why do people dislike the idea of someone getting money to which they are entitled?

I don;t get the problem"

I think it's more so about people who cheat or "play" the system in a way for their own benefit as opposed to those in actual need. Plus the people who choose to avoid work as they're better off financially on benefits, it's just not a good characteristic.

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By *isscheekychopsWoman over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

"Why do these benefits threads turn so nasty?

Why do people dislike the idea of someone getting money to which they are entitled?

I don;t get the problem"

Because that's our society is now a day a society of some people looking down their nose at others. I bet you most don't have a clue as to the in's and outs of the benefit system

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By *isscheekychopsWoman over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

"A couple few door away from us that kid with one problem or the other and get load's of funding by the why of benfits but they keep having more kids he's about 8 stone wet though she's about24 stone on dry day they have take aways deliverd 6 to 7 a week sometimes twice in one night then I saw them in the shops with about £150.00 of bozz in there trolly .also as mobilty mini bus but can afford to buy the old 62 plate of mobilty so as two car /mini bus"

Stop being so nosey as to what they are doing then you wouldn't be so pissed off

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Stop being so nosey as to what they are doing then you wouldn't be so pissed off "

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

"Why do these benefits threads turn so nasty?

Why do people dislike the idea of someone getting money to which they are entitled?

I don;t get the problem

Ok - so how many people like that do you know, personally?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Why do these benefits threads turn so nasty?

Why do people dislike the idea of someone getting money to which they are entitled?

I don;t get the problem

Ok - so how many people like that do you know, personally?"

Eh, I was giving you a potential answer to your question. I'm not being nasty to anyone, not sure why I have to explain myself?

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By *B9 QueenWoman over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge

"some people need government assistance even if they've never contributed anything into it. But what get's my goat is when I see how much I've been taxed to help that government benefits system. Then I think, give up and go on benefits myself."

I've been on benefits. Really I think you'd rather work. I know I would.

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By *irtyGirlWoman over a year ago

Edinburgh

I've never claimed benefits so I'm not really of any opinion other than its a system in place to help those who need help. The people who cheat the system piss me off more than the system.

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

"I've never claimed benefits so I'm not really of any opinion other than its a system in place to help those who need help. The people who cheat the system piss me off more than the system.

And again, who are these people who cheat the system - do you know any?

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By *illwill69uMan over a year ago

moston

It is such a shame and indictment on our Thatcherite breed 'greed is good' society that we get more upset about the money paid out supporting the most vulnerable in society than about mega rich individuals and corporations systematic frauds (stealing) 10s sometimes 100s of billions annually out of pension funds (which are then bailed out by the public purse) and the public purse itself through tax evasion and avoidance schemes!

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

"Why do these benefits threads turn so nasty?

Why do people dislike the idea of someone getting money to which they are entitled?

I don;t get the problem

Ok - so how many people like that do you know, personally?

Eh, I was giving you a potential answer to your question. I'm not being nasty to anyone, not sure why I have to explain myself?"

There is a perception, certainly, I'm just asking if anyone knows someone/some people who are actually fiddling the system?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Yeah. I hate how we pay for the rich's tax fucking breaks.

Not sure what that's got to do with the subject.

You do realise it's the rich people that pay the majority of tax the govt spend?

Tut. Because they're benefitting...

No I don't think they do you know.

Again, really easy stuff to look up.

The wealthiest 10% of taxpayers pay 55% of the total govt tax bill.

Thank good for rich people! Without them those of us on moderate incomes would be far worse off.

In addition to this point, it's unfair to claim all rich people avoid tax as much as possible. There are honest rich people and there are definitely honest high earners.

Just cos someone is jealous of another's wealth, it doesn't mean it's ill gotten gains. .

That's just a random bullshit statement... She didn't define "rich" or "moderate".

Nobody mentioned jealousy.

And none of her "googled claims" are even remotely accurate

I'd ask for a impartial response on how it's "bullshit" but you seem unable to give them. Just move on. "
.

She claimed 10% pay 55% of total taxes... I've already put up the institute of fiscal studies PDF for 2014/15

Income tax was 20?% of total tax

29 million tax payers 10% equals 2.9 million and they clearly show they only pay about 32% of income tax.

Vat was next with no breakdown but I'd eat my hat if the top ten % paid 55% of it.

Ni was third and again no breakdown but I'll eat your hat if it's 55% paid by the top 10%.

Tobacco, petrol and alcohol brought in more than corporation tax, business tax and inheritance tax combined... Are the top 10% quaffing Bollinger while driving hummers and smoking Cubans... I doubt it.

Like I said it's just misleading bullshit

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

"Like I said it's just misleading bullshit"

I think she's quoting from this:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/tax/11233686/How-top-3000-earners-pay-more-tax-than-bottom-9-million.html

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Why do these benefits threads turn so nasty?

Why do people dislike the idea of someone getting money to which they are entitled?

I don;t get the problem

Ok - so how many people like that do you know, personally?

Eh, I was giving you a potential answer to your question. I'm not being nasty to anyone, not sure why I have to explain myself?

There is a perception, certainly, I'm just asking if anyone knows someone/some people who are actually fiddling the system?

Ah okay, I have known of 3 people who have done questionable things. One even intentionally got pregnant in order to be bumped up the social housing list which I think is mad . My social circle doesn't really have people who claim benefits, so I can't really comment on it.

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

"Like I said it's just misleading bullshit

I think she's quoting from this:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/tax/11233686/How-top-3000-earners-pay-more-tax-than-bottom-9-million.html"

But then...

"The British public dramatically underestimate what the poorest pay in tax and wrongly believe the richest face the biggest tax burden, according to new research that calls for a more progressive system.

The poorest 10% of households pay eight percentage points more of their income in all taxes than the richest – 43% compared to 35%, according to a report from the Equality Trust.

The thinktank highlights what it sees as a gulf between perceptions of the tax system and reality. Its poll, conducted with Ipsos Mori found that nearly seven in ten people believe that households in the highest 10% income group pay more of their income in tax than those in the lowest 10%.

The survey of more than 1,000 people also found a strong majority – 96% – believe that the tax system should be more progressive than is currently the case."

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2014/jun/16/british-public-wrong-rich-poor-tax-research

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

"Why do these benefits threads turn so nasty?

Why do people dislike the idea of someone getting money to which they are entitled?

I don;t get the problem

Ok - so how many people like that do you know, personally?

Eh, I was giving you a potential answer to your question. I'm not being nasty to anyone, not sure why I have to explain myself?

There is a perception, certainly, I'm just asking if anyone knows someone/some people who are actually fiddling the system?

When did your friend get pregnant, and where?

So beyond that, what are you relying on as your sources of information?

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By *ervent_fervourMan over a year ago

Halifax

"Yeah. I hate how we pay for the rich's tax fucking breaks.

Not sure what that's got to do with the subject.

You do realise it's the rich people that pay the majority of tax the govt spend?

Tut. Because they're benefitting...

No I don't think they do you know.

Again, really easy stuff to look up.

The wealthiest 10% of taxpayers pay 55% of the total govt tax bill.

Thank good for rich people! Without them those of us on moderate incomes would be far worse off.

Yep. Good for rich people.

It's all about proportions and proportionality isn't it?

If the wealthiest 10% pay 55% of our taxes, just imagine if they ALL were paying the same rate as what they should be(higher rated for above whatever hundred K be damned). We'd have a much better society.

Personally I think that if EVERYBODY paid the exact same rate (24% plus council tax on top??)then there would be absolutely no excuse for tax dodging at all.

And before someone says 'ah it's within the law so they're not doing anything wrong' then F them. They won't have a leg to stand on. - There would be no excuse or need for such convoluted schemes.

Yes, I'm aggrieved that 0.2 % of my taxes goes to cheats, but I'm even more aggrieved at what percentage of taxes are lost to the system(to the utter detriment of the society within which they live/operate) by many rich people/corporations essentially 'cheating' us.

They're the bigger 'benefits' cheats.

And just like the traditional tabloidesque 'benefits cheats' who are banged up in prison(ironically cranking up our expenditure i know...)for this, then so should the rich people who (thanks to the dodgy tax laws and access to decent accountants and lawyers) avoid paying the same proportion of taxes as everyone else.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I've never claimed benefits so I'm not really of any opinion other than its a system in place to help those who need help. The people who cheat the system piss me off more than the system.

And again, who are these people who cheat the system - do you know any?"

Sadly, I know several families who take the piss, either claiming benefits while working, claiming benefits as a single parent but has a partner living with them, and he works, getting a good wage, claiming that their partner is a carer for one of their 7 kids, so that he doesn't have to work .... It's totally wrong. Boils my piss.

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

"I've never claimed benefits so I'm not really of any opinion other than its a system in place to help those who need help. The people who cheat the system piss me off more than the system.

And again, who are these people who cheat the system - do you know any?

Fair enough.

But do you think that family is representative of people in benefits?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I worked for the same company for 20 years then I was made redundant on my birthday in 2011. I was also 4 months pregnant with my only child.

I suffered a nervous breakdown when she was born in 2012 and I still have depression and bpd now.

Who is actually going to employ someone who doesn't know if I can get out of bed of a morning. They would put up with it for a month tops. Then I'd be back to square one.

And don't get me started on childcare costs I've been told I'd be better off by 20 quid a week at the expense of seeing my child grow up!!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Stop being so nosey as to what they are doing then you wouldn't be so pissed off "

My oldest and bestest chum is now my ex oldest and bestest chum because of something similar. He's been milking the dole, graduating to disability, for a very long time because of some supposed personality disorder. Having known this guy all of my teenage and adult life, I can safely say that he's faking it - he's all but admitted it to me in the past.

Last year he married his girlfriend who is also registered as his carer. Because of this, they have a pretty sleek 63 plate Focus, and have their rent paid for them. The two young kids they have are being brought up by the state's money and have no concept of self control or graft. He used to moan to me that he wasn't getting enough money for them, yet he and his wife want more. I asked him if that was kinda irresponsible, and his reply was that "The Muslims do it so why can't I?"

The part I love most is how much ganja that guy can smoke and how often he and his wife get a macdonalds or a Chinese... Me and my girlfriend do okay and we don't seem to have even half the disposable income of these two clowns and quite frankly, it boils my piss.

And if you really think the solution is to be less nosey to be less angry, when there is clearly a systemic flaw in the benefits system, taking resources from those who have NO choice but to claim them, then, quite frankly, you need to have a think about your level of maturity and reasoning.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Stop being so nosey as to what they are doing then you wouldn't be so pissed off "

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By *irtyGirlWoman over a year ago

Edinburgh

"I've never claimed benefits so I'm not really of any opinion other than its a system in place to help those who need help. The people who cheat the system piss me off more than the system.

And again, who are these people who cheat the system - do you know any?"

Yes. Fortunately not in my personal life but in my professional life I've known a number of people over the years who are quite simply workshy, lazy bastards and claim more than they're supposed to cause apparently it beats doing an honest day's work.

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By *isscheekychopsWoman over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

Stop being so nosey as to what they are doing then you wouldn't be so pissed off

Ok I'll have a sit down and have a strong word with myself about my level of maturity and reasoning....cheers for the heads up

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Yes they annoy me. Too easily abused by the lazy, junkies and alkies

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

It's very easy to fix upon single examples, either through the press or personally that 'boil your piss' but I think you'll find the majority of benefit recipients (as per the Work & Pension's Dept's £217bn budget)

* £92bn is pensions

* £6.4bn is pension credits

* £36.7bn is disability benefits

* £29.9bn is Child & Working Tax Credits

* £26bn is Housing benefit

* £11.7bn is Child Benefit

* £14.5 bn in 'Misc.' benefits

And

* £2.4bn is Unemployment Benefits

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Someone i know got thenselves a disability car, first thing they did with it was carry their new armchairs out of the back into their house...next thing was they did up their garden, moving heavy concrete slabs about and bags of soil.

We probably all know at least one good bullshitter, they're more common than you think. Pisses me off how easy it is for con artists to claim disability yet it is hard to claim disability benefits if you're genuinely disabled (my doubly incontinent sister who cannot walk without aids had to appeal for years to get help).

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Why do these benefits threads turn so nasty?

Why do people dislike the idea of someone getting money to which they are entitled?

I don;t get the problem

Ok - so how many people like that do you know, personally?

Eh, I was giving you a potential answer to your question. I'm not being nasty to anyone, not sure why I have to explain myself?

There is a perception, certainly, I'm just asking if anyone knows someone/some people who are actually fiddling the system?

When did your friend get pregnant, and where?

So beyond that, what are you relying on as your sources of information?"

I don't understand why I'm being questioned to explain my own experiences to help you understand why someone else is angry? I'm not angry about it. People do abuse the help on offer, it will always be the case. I gave you a possible answer to your question, next time I'll remember you'll ask for dates and times of certain things and remind myself it's not worth the effort.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I've never claimed benefits so I'm not really of any opinion other than its a system in place to help those who need help. The people who cheat the system piss me off more than the system.

And again, who are these people who cheat the system - do you know any?

My parents gardener got caught signing on several times and in the end gave up work because it was an easier life to claim. Usually around lunchtime the village pub will start to fill up with the too sick to work who will stay in till closing.

It's sad that these people are allowed to do it. But I think for the sake of the genuine I don't get bothered over it. It's important to protect the vulnerable of society and if the feckless take advantage then so be it.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I've never claimed benefits so I'm not really of any opinion other than its a system in place to help those who need help. The people who cheat the system piss me off more than the system.

And again, who are these people who cheat the system - do you know any?

Fair enough.

But do you think that family is representative of people in benefits?"

That's 3 separate families.

No,, it's not a fair representation of ALL people on benefits ....just a few people I know who take the piss

I've been on benefits.... I'm not saying all people are like that.... It's just far too easy to 'work' the system

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

"I don't understand why I'm being questioned to explain my own experiences to help you understand why someone else is angry? I'm not angry about it. People do abuse the help on offer, it will always be the case. I gave you a possible answer to your question, next time I'll remember you'll ask for dates and times of certain things and remind myself it's not worth the effort. "

Fair enough - I'm just saying there is perception and then there is reality

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It's very easy to fix upon single examples, either through the press or personally that 'boil your piss' but I think you'll find the majority of benefit recipients (as per the Work & Pension's Dept's £217bn budget)

* £92bn is pensions

* £6.4bn is pension credits

* £36.7bn is disability benefits

* £29.9bn is Child & Working Tax Credits

* £26bn is Housing benefit

* £11.7bn is Child Benefit

* £14.5 bn in 'Misc.' benefits

And

* £2.4bn is Unemployment Benefits

How come those single examples aren't allowed to be considered? I mean most people aren't murderers, it doesn't mean that a person who is a murderer should be allowed as the majority aren't.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Fair enough - I'm just saying there is perception and then there is reality"

I'm not sure many people mind their benefits going to help unemployed people though. People just mind when it's abused and taken advantage of. That's okay, isn't it?

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

"I've never claimed benefits so I'm not really of any opinion other than its a system in place to help those who need help. The people who cheat the system piss me off more than the system.

And again, who are these people who cheat the system - do you know any?

Fair enough.

But do you think that family is representative of people in benefits?

That's 3 separate families.

No,, it's not a fair representation of ALL people on benefits ....just a few people I know who take the piss

I've been on benefits.... I'm not saying all people are like that.... It's just far too easy to 'work' the system "

For 2014-15 it is estimated that 0.4%, or £1.2bn, of total benefit expenditure was overpaid as a result of fraud. This is far lower than the figures widely believed by the public, as revealed repeatedly in opinion polls.

A TUC poll recently revealed that people believe 27% of the welfare budget is claimed fraudulently.

Perception vs reality

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By *illwill69uMan over a year ago

moston

"Ah okay, I have known of 3 people who have done questionable things. One even intentionally got pregnant in order to be bumped up the social housing list which I think is mad. My social circle doesn't really have people who claim benefits, so I can't really comment on it."

And you find this questionable?

I find it disgusting that in one of the richest countries in the world a girl in need of social housing because she is poor can become so desperate that she would feel the need to become pregnant in order to get a secure place to live!

As for your comment about your social circle: Its a crock! You may not be able to comment but you sure are able to judge!

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

Fair enough - I'm just saying there is perception and then there is reality

I'm not sure many people mind their benefits going to help unemployed people though. People just mind when it's abused and taken advantage of. That's okay, isn't it?"

Correct, but it happens less than people think

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Maybe you should think about where all your council tax money goes as that's far more costly to you than benefits. "

Now you're talking as pay around £100 council tax part of which is supposedly to empty my bins so why do I have to put up with a fortnightly collection and those in the councils flats by me get a weekly collection yet don't pay! Fed up with having to take stuff to the council tip at my bloody expense. And yes I do recycle and even that's a bloody waste of time given they only take certain cardboard jeez

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By *ervent_fervourMan over a year ago

Halifax

* £92bn is pensions

* £6.4bn is pension credits

* £36.7bn is disability benefits

* £29.9bn is Child & Working Tax Credits

* £26bn is Housing benefit

* £11.7bn is Child Benefit

* £14.5 bn in 'Misc.' benefits

And

* £2.4bn is Unemployment Benefits

Aye. So apart from the angst and moral fury(legitmate, towards what I'd imagine were the vast minority of unemployment claimants), they really do cost us bugger all in toatl expenditure, and in £/p per person.

Could someone do a costing of how much in real money each person in the country(based on avergae per person spend to include VAT)orking on an average salary of 23-5k or whatever actually pays for unemployment benefit please?

I was just a middle C student at GCSE Maths so it's beyond me.

Sweepstakes says it's about 15p a week..

I'll buy you a creamcake if you can do a similar figure for the share of the total DWP budget!

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

* £92bn is pensions

* £6.4bn is pension credits

* £36.7bn is disability benefits

* £29.9bn is Child & Working Tax Credits

* £26bn is Housing benefit

* £11.7bn is Child Benefit

* £14.5 bn in 'Misc.' benefits

And

* £2.4bn is Unemployment Benefits

How come those single examples aren't allowed to be considered? I mean most people aren't murderers, it doesn't mean that a person who is a murderer should be allowed as the majority aren't."

I don;t follow?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Not at all. Some people in life need help.

Sime people will take advantage of it, but really it's a small percentage who do in the grand scheme of things.

You can't constantly close down industries, factories etc and neglect towns and then complain when people don't have jobs.

I'm glad we live in a country where we look after those who need it. Fuck being like America where you have single mums working 2 jobs and still end up below the poverty line.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Fair enough - I'm just saying there is perception and then there is reality

I'm not sure many people mind their benefits going to help unemployed people though. People just mind when it's abused and taken advantage of. That's okay, isn't it?

Correct, but it happens less than people think"

Yeh but that's not what people have said. You're kinda having a go at people for being annoyed at opportunistic people, when almost everyone would be annoyed. No one has said everyone claiming a benefit of sorts is cheating the system, just that those who are cheating are not the people they want their taxes going to.

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

So if you get child benefit or a pension you are a benefit claimant - and those two categories alone make up over half of the DWP budget

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By *eavenscentitCouple over a year ago

barnstaple

Why does he need to claim anything if he has financial resources?

He has savings but not a lot which he is living off at the moment and my mum is his carer. Savings will soon go x"

Then he can claim

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So if you get child benefit or a pension you are a benefit claimant - and those two categories alone make up over half of the DWP budget"

Fraud can be committed with these benefits, too.

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

Fair enough - I'm just saying there is perception and then there is reality

I'm not sure many people mind their benefits going to help unemployed people though. People just mind when it's abused and taken advantage of. That's okay, isn't it?

Correct, but it happens less than people think

People are wont to read or observe the things they want in to a situation - seizing the headline or the anecdotal without regard for the whole picture, is what I'm saying...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

and don't forget all the many billions that go unclaimed every year ...

last year it was approximately £13.23 billion that vulnerable and older people were missing out on because of the apparent complexity of the benefits system...

the total includes £2 billion in unclaimed benefits for jobseekers and £3 billion for pensioners...but the highest amount was unclaimed in housing benefits at £4 billion..

a lot of it is down to ignorance of what people are actually entitled but also in the case of many pensioners and to a certain extent working age people, its simply down to pride...and avoiding the stigma that comes with claiming such benefits

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

"So if you get child benefit or a pension you are a benefit claimant - and those two categories alone make up over half of the DWP budget

Fraud can be committed with these benefits, too. "

And yet all we hear about are Mr & Mrs Slobb with 7 kids and a flatscreen...

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By *ervent_fervourMan over a year ago

Halifax

Fair enough - I'm just saying there is perception and then there is reality

I'm not sure many people mind their benefits going to help unemployed people though. People just mind when it's abused and taken advantage of. That's okay, isn't it?"

In my opinion yes. I agree!

But it's utterly the smallest of small fry when compared to money wasted/not contributed to the country as a whole.

It's almost irrelevent.

Unfortunately the media like whipping people into a frenzy about it to pursue their agendas, and the agendas of the real money makers who want more £.

They(the media)blatantly klnow there's far worse things going on, and far better things they should be printing stories about for the public 'good'.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"and don't forget all the many billions that go unclaimed every year ...

last year it was approximately £13.23 billion that vulnerable and older people were missing out on because of the apparent complexity of the benefits system...

the total includes £2 billion in unclaimed benefits for jobseekers and £3 billion for pensioners...but the highest amount was unclaimed in housing benefits at £4 billion..

My relatives have gone without during times of extreme need due to the embarrassment of claiming. I'm fortunate in that I'm able to afford income protection insurance. Still, it's not the case for everyone.

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By *ervent_fervourMan over a year ago

Halifax

Where've Ladyboy and Morning disappeared to?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"and don't forget all the many billions that go unclaimed every year ...

last year it was approximately £13.23 billion that vulnerable and older people were missing out on because of the apparent complexity of the benefits system...

the total includes £2 billion in unclaimed benefits for jobseekers and £3 billion for pensioners...but the highest amount was unclaimed in housing benefits at £4 billion..

I was offered to claim for the short fall in my housing benefit witch is £75 but I declined cos I feel I claim enogh allready. I only claim hb ctb & esa

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Fair enough - I'm just saying there is perception and then there is reality

I'm not sure many people mind their benefits going to help unemployed people though. People just mind when it's abused and taken advantage of. That's okay, isn't it?

Correct, but it happens less than people think

People are wont to read or observe the things they want in to a situation - seizing the headline or the anecdotal without regard for the whole picture, is what I'm saying...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias"

See I'm not sure that applies here. I think you're expecting people to believe a HUGE percentage of claimants are fraudulent and expect them to have less knowledge than you - which isn't quite the case.

It still stands that people are okay with honest claimants and not okay with fraudulent claimants.

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

So to get some perspective, benefit fraud represents 2% of the estimated total annual fraud in the UK.

Public sector fraud, which includes benefit fraud, is £20.3bn a year, so within this category it accounts for just under 8%.

The majority of this £20 bn is tax fraud which costs the economy £14 bn annually, or 69%.

So we can see that both in absolute and percentage terms tax fraud is a much bigger issue than benefit fraud.

In fact, out of all the categories of fraud calculated by the UK Government, benefit fraud is the second lowest.

Only identity fraud which costs individuals £1.4bn a year comes below it.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Fair enough - I'm just saying there is perception and then there is reality

I'm not sure many people mind their benefits going to help unemployed people though. People just mind when it's abused and taken advantage of. That's okay, isn't it?

In my opinion yes. I agree!

But it's utterly the smallest of small fry when compared to money wasted/not contributed to the country as a whole.

It's almost irrelevent.

Unfortunately the media like whipping people into a frenzy about it to pursue their agendas, and the agendas of the real money makers who want more £.

They(the media)blatantly klnow there's far worse things going on, and far better things they should be printing stories about for the public 'good'."

I think a lot of rich people and a lot of poor people get equally bad press. It just depends on the source you're checking.

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

Fair enough - I'm just saying there is perception and then there is reality

I'm not sure many people mind their benefits going to help unemployed people though. People just mind when it's abused and taken advantage of. That's okay, isn't it?

Correct, but it happens less than people think

People are wont to read or observe the things they want in to a situation - seizing the headline or the anecdotal without regard for the whole picture, is what I'm saying...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

It still stands that people are okay with honest claimants and not okay with fraudulent claimants. "

A TUC poll recently revealed that people believe 27% of the welfare budget is claimed fraudulently.

Perception vs reality

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

No. Our Benefits system doesn't annoy me but then I've No first hand experience of it. I'm glad there is something there if i ever find myself in the position to need it.

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By *irtyGirlWoman over a year ago

Edinburgh

When things are wrong, they piss me off.

Claiming benefits when you could be working is wrong.

Claiming expenses for a second home or unnecessary spending when you're in government is wrong.

I'm an equal opporchancers hater.

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By *ervent_fervourMan over a year ago

Halifax

"So to get some perspective, benefit fraud represents 2% of the estimated total annual fraud in the UK.

Public sector fraud, which includes benefit fraud, is £20.3bn a year, so within this category it accounts for just under 8%.

The majority of this £20 bn is tax fraud which costs the economy £14 bn annually, or 69%.

So we can see that both in absolute and percentage terms tax fraud is a much bigger issue than benefit fraud.

In fact, out of all the categories of fraud calculated by the UK Government, benefit fraud is the second lowest.

Only identity fraud which costs individuals £1.4bn a year comes below it."

AND I imagine that tax fraud is going to be massively higher if you count in tax evasion which is legal.

Eye watering.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Fair enough - I'm just saying there is perception and then there is reality

I'm not sure many people mind their benefits going to help unemployed people though. People just mind when it's abused and taken advantage of. That's okay, isn't it?

Correct, but it happens less than people think

People are wont to read or observe the things they want in to a situation - seizing the headline or the anecdotal without regard for the whole picture, is what I'm saying...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

It still stands that people are okay with honest claimants and not okay with fraudulent claimants.

A TUC poll recently revealed that people believe 27% of the welfare budget is claimed fraudulently.

Perception vs reality"

So because of these numbers, it's not acceptable to find fraudulent claims bad?

I don't know how the frequency of the crime changes anything. I don't follow your point here at all.

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By *ervent_fervourMan over a year ago

Halifax

Fair enough - I'm just saying there is perception and then there is reality

I'm not sure many people mind their benefits going to help unemployed people though. People just mind when it's abused and taken advantage of. That's okay, isn't it?

In my opinion yes. I agree!

But it's utterly the smallest of small fry when compared to money wasted/not contributed to the country as a whole.

It's almost irrelevent.

Unfortunately the media like whipping people into a frenzy about it to pursue their agendas, and the agendas of the real money makers who want more £.

They(the media)blatantly klnow there's far worse things going on, and far better things they should be printing stories about for the public 'good'.

I think a lot of rich people and a lot of poor people get equally bad press. It just depends on the source you're checking. "

The House of Commons library and The Guardian. See my post above.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"and don't forget all the many billions that go unclaimed every year ...

last year it was approximately £13.23 billion that vulnerable and older people were missing out on because of the apparent complexity of the benefits system...

the total includes £2 billion in unclaimed benefits for jobseekers and £3 billion for pensioners...but the highest amount was unclaimed in housing benefits at £4 billion..

I was offered to claim for the short fall in my housing benefit witch is £75 but I declined cos I feel I claim enogh allready. I only claim hb ctb & esa "

if you are entitled to it you should claim it..

the way I look at it is I have worked all my life (some of it for the jobcentre and some of it for benefit fraud incidentally) and my tax has gone into a pot to help pay me for when I need it....which is now, so its pay back time

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Fair enough - I'm just saying there is perception and then there is reality

I'm not sure many people mind their benefits going to help unemployed people though. People just mind when it's abused and taken advantage of. That's okay, isn't it?

In my opinion yes. I agree!

But it's utterly the smallest of small fry when compared to money wasted/not contributed to the country as a whole.

It's almost irrelevent.

Unfortunately the media like whipping people into a frenzy about it to pursue their agendas, and the agendas of the real money makers who want more £.

They(the media)blatantly klnow there's far worse things going on, and far better things they should be printing stories about for the public 'good'.

I think a lot of rich people and a lot of poor people get equally bad press. It just depends on the source you're checking.

The House of Commons library and The Guardian. See my post above."

I wasn't questioning your sources. My point is that the spin will be different depending on sources. All have different biases or incentives.

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

"When things are wrong, they piss me off.

Claiming benefits when you could be working is wrong.

Claiming expenses for a second home or unnecessary spending when you're in government is wrong.

I'm an equal opporchancers hater.

That's what we like to see

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

"For 2014-15 it is estimated that 0.4%, or £1.2bn, of total benefit expenditure was overpaid as a result of fraud. This is far lower than the figures widely believed by the public, as revealed repeatedly in opinion polls.

A TUC poll recently revealed that people believe 27% of the welfare budget is claimed fraudulently.

Perception vs reality"

So because of these numbers, it's not acceptable to find fraudulent claims bad?

I don't know how the frequency of the crime changes anything. I don't follow your point here at all."

Because all the coverage is directed at 'benefits scroungers' when, as we have discovered, tax fraud (by working people and companies) accounts for a much higher proportion.

Where are the Mail exclusives about that?

Perception vs reality...

Anyway.

Thread over.

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By *ervent_fervourMan over a year ago

Halifax

Fair enough - I'm just saying there is perception and then there is reality

I'm not sure many people mind their benefits going to help unemployed people though. People just mind when it's abused and taken advantage of. That's okay, isn't it?

In my opinion yes. I agree!

But it's utterly the smallest of small fry when compared to money wasted/not contributed to the country as a whole.

It's almost irrelevent.

Unfortunately the media like whipping people into a frenzy about it to pursue their agendas, and the agendas of the real money makers who want more £.

They(the media)blatantly klnow there's far worse things going on, and far better things they should be printing stories about for the public 'good'.

I think a lot of rich people and a lot of poor people get equally bad press. It just depends on the source you're checking.

The House of Commons library and The Guardian. See my post above.

I wasn't questioning your sources. My point is that the spin will be different depending on sources. All have different biases or incentives. "

No: the spin will be different based on how they want to spin regardless of sources.

And some sources are more reliable than others remember(depending on who has commissioned it/produced it).

I'd like to think(fingers crossed)that the HOC Library is objective information that doesn't have an agenda apart from that of setting out the facts. Same goes for the Guardian(their source was Department of Work and Pensions).

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Because all the coverage is directed at 'benefits scroungers' when, as we have discovered, tax fraud (by working people and companies) accounts for a much higher proportion.

Where are the Mail exclusives about that?

Perception vs reality...

Anyway.

Thread over"

Yes, but they're not mutually exclusive things. I still don't see why someone can't be unhappy about fraudulent benefit claims just cos the Mail reports about "benefit scroungers".

Surely people are expected to dislike crimes.

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

Oi!

I said thread over.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The benefits system doesn't annoy me, but what does is when people try to palm benefits fraud off against other crimes. Benefit fraud is wrong, tax evasion is wrong, tax avoidance is wrong, but only the first two are crimes and both should be dealt with equally.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"No: the spin will be different based on how they want to spin regardless of sources.

And some sources are more reliable than others remember(depending on who has commissioned it/produced it).

A news outlet IS a media source, I'm not talking about a source in terms of person being interviewed or whatever.

Ignoring that, this is exactly what I said, how come my phrasing is wrong but yours is right?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Yeah!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

*coffs*

Admin will be along shortly to nail this shut

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