FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Junior doctor strike.

Junior doctor strike.

By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

They are going on strike over the new contract being imposed by the health secretary jeremey hunt.

It starts tomorrow 8am and goes on until 5pm the same day. Then it resumes 8am on wednesday and finishes 5pm that day.

What do you think of them going on strike? I think it is good cos they need a good contract, although it is not fair on the patients as they are running a limit service.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Our A&E has just shut down 3 weeks ago anyway

"The trust blamed a national shortage of emergency doctors, an insufficient number of junior doctors being assigned to the hospital, and difficulties arising from a recent Department of Health-imposed cap on spending on temporary agency staff."

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan over a year ago

here

Get back to work and be grateful you have the opportunity of a career

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It's good to see the junior doctors standing into the imposed contract. They are already spread very thin, with _educing numbers of staff bringing more struggles to the NHS. They shouldn't be looking at a contract to include weekends when they don't have enough staff to comfortably withstand the usual NHS patients during the week.

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By *eavenscentitCouple over a year ago

barnstaple

People get ill at weekends and in the evenings lol

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I feel sorry for the people waiting in pain who will have received calls saying their electives are cancelled tomorrow. It's a shame patients are being punished and left to suffer.

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By *asokittyWoman over a year ago

Nr Worksop

"People get ill at weekends and in the evenings lol"

And they work in the evenings and weekends.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"People get ill at weekends and in the evenings lol"

Yes, they do. The time I was in hospital, I was sent on a Friday afternoon and was there until Monday afternoon. They still had the necessary care teams there. They had surgical staff on call too and all urgent services and surgeries still happened as they do today.

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By *lanemikeMan over a year ago

Bolton

"Get back to work and be grateful you have the opportunity of a career

They just want to be treated correctly....

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By *asokittyWoman over a year ago

Nr Worksop

"I feel sorry for the people waiting in pain who will have received calls saying their electives are cancelled tomorrow. It's a shame patients are being punished and left to suffer. "

If it's elective it's not going to be an emergency. Frankly if things go on like this any longer people won't be able to afford the surgery anyway.

All power to then. Completely behind them

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By *uited staffs guyMan over a year ago

staffordshire

None of us alive can ever remember an all out strike before - Jeremy Hunt will leave a legacy in the NHS but it won't be one anyone of us will be grateful for

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By *est Wales WifeCouple over a year ago

Near Carmarthen

Totally behind the doctors but not sure why they are going down this route.

All they have to do is say (en masse) "we're not signing a new contract as of which ever day it starts."

Over to you Mr Hunt, your problem.

Game over.

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By *asokittyWoman over a year ago

Nr Worksop

"Totally behind the doctors but not sure why they are going down this route.

All they have to do is say (en masse) "we're not signing a new contract as of which ever day it starts."

Over to you Mr Hunt, your problem.

Game over."

Because it will he enforced signed or not. This literally is their last option and it wouldn't be taken lightly

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I feel sorry for the people waiting in pain who will have received calls saying their electives are cancelled tomorrow. It's a shame patients are being punished and left to suffer.

If it's elective it's not going to be an emergency. Frankly if things go on like this any longer people won't be able to afford the surgery anyway.

All power to then. Completely behind them "

No, not life and death necessarily, but it doesn't mean that people aren't in huge amounts of pain waiting for electives. It seems sadistic to me to walk away from them.

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By *lanemikeMan over a year ago

Bolton

"Totally behind the doctors but not sure why they are going down this route.

All they have to do is say (en masse) "we're not signing a new contract as of which ever day it starts."

Over to you Mr Hunt, your problem.

Game over."

Not really, he is imposing it unilaterally..

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

They have said that. They've also written several statements and proposed further meetings to Mr Hunt. Unfortunately, he has imposed a contract upon them, although he may not have the authority to do that. (Not confirmed)

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By *est Wales WifeCouple over a year ago

Near Carmarthen

Because it will he enforced signed or not. This literally is their last option and it wouldn't be taken lightly"

If they all in effect resign on the 1st August or whatever the start date is. What exactly is Hunt going to do? Send in the army?

It will then be down to him. You can try to impose a new contract; no one has to accept it.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I feel sorry for the people waiting in pain who will have received calls saying their electives are cancelled tomorrow. It's a shame patients are being punished and left to suffer.

If it's elective it's not going to be an emergency. Frankly if things go on like this any longer people won't be able to afford the surgery anyway.

All power to then. Completely behind them

No, not life and death necessarily, but it doesn't mean that people aren't in huge amounts of pain waiting for electives. It seems sadistic to me to walk away from them. "

Oh and I also feel sorry for those waiting for a diagnosis who have had their clinic appointments cancelled. I know the waiting for a diagnosis was worse than being diagnosed mentally for me.

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By *rightonsteveMan over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

Doctors know what's best for them, not the health secretary. They've spent years in training and have a high level of expertise, Jeremy Hunt needs no qualification for his job.

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By *lanemikeMan over a year ago

Bolton

Because it will he enforced signed or not. This literally is their last option and it wouldn't be taken lightly

If they all in effect resign on the 1st August or whatever the start date is. What exactly is Hunt going to do? Send in the army?

It will then be down to him. You can try to impose a new contract; no one has to accept it."

He does not seem to grasp that.....

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By *asokittyWoman over a year ago

Nr Worksop

"I feel sorry for the people waiting in pain who will have received calls saying their electives are cancelled tomorrow. It's a shame patients are being punished and left to suffer.

If it's elective it's not going to be an emergency. Frankly if things go on like this any longer people won't be able to afford the surgery anyway.

All power to then. Completely behind them

No, not life and death necessarily, but it doesn't mean that people aren't in huge amounts of pain waiting for electives. It seems sadistic to me to walk away from them.

Oh and I also feel sorry for those waiting for a diagnosis who have had their clinic appointments cancelled. I know the waiting for a diagnosis was worse than being diagnosed mentally for me. "

So done. I've been there many times. Still behind them as my point still stands

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By *inaTitzTV/TS over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

Hunt seems to be doing his best on inflame the situation. It's almost as if the NHS is being run down so that choice bits can be outsourced

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By *obka3Couple over a year ago

bournemouth

Thousands and thousands of people work in jobs that require a seven day service and earn nowhere near what a JD does. Cant see the problem myself, In my job I work seven days a wk for long periods, as self employed its what I do to earn a living, if they dont want to they can always get a job doing something else

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By *asokittyWoman over a year ago

Nr Worksop

"Hunt seems to be doing his best on inflame the situation. It's almost as if the NHS is being run down so that choice bits can be outsourced

Funny that....but of course it's the greedy doctors that are wrong!

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By *at69driveMan over a year ago

Hertford

"They are going on strike over the new contract being imposed by the health secretary jeremey hunt.

It starts tomorrow 8am and goes on until 5pm the same day. Then it resumes 8am on wednesday and finishes 5pm that day.

What do you think of them going on strike? I think it is good cos they need a good contract, although it is not fair on the patients as they are running a limit service."
Medicine is a very well paid profession with many privileges . In any career you expect to work long hours in you first few years . Why should the tax payers pay Doctors premium rates for working Saturdays . This is just arrogance and greed. It has nothing to do with Doctors being concerned about patient care .

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By *est Wales WifeCouple over a year ago

Near Carmarthen

"Hunt seems to be doing his best on inflame the situation. It's almost as if the NHS is being run down so that choice bits can be outsourced

Exactly, to their Tory mates of course.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I feel sorry for the people waiting in pain who will have received calls saying their electives are cancelled tomorrow. It's a shame patients are being punished and left to suffer.

If it's elective it's not going to be an emergency. Frankly if things go on like this any longer people won't be able to afford the surgery anyway.

All power to then. Completely behind them

No, not life and death necessarily, but it doesn't mean that people aren't in huge amounts of pain waiting for electives. It seems sadistic to me to walk away from them.

Oh and I also feel sorry for those waiting for a diagnosis who have had their clinic appointments cancelled. I know the waiting for a diagnosis was worse than being diagnosed mentally for me.

So done. I've been there many times. Still behind them as my point still stands "

Your support of the strike doesn't negate my sympathy for those who suffer as a result.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It is a difficult one. I really am not sure about the version coming from Jeremy Cunt or the BMA/junior doctors. To be honest, I don't think the issues are too defined (other than Saturdays becoming a normal working day without overtime).

I do think that the junior doctors need to beware about public opinion, though. They seem to have the public on their side at the moment but that may change quickly if deaths occur as a result of strike action.

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By *asokittyWoman over a year ago

Nr Worksop

"They are going on strike over the new contract being imposed by the health secretary jeremey hunt.

It starts tomorrow 8am and goes on until 5pm the same day. Then it resumes 8am on wednesday and finishes 5pm that day.

What do you think of them going on strike? I think it is good cos they need a good contract, although it is not fair on the patients as they are running a limit service. Medicine is a very well paid profession with many privileges . In any career you expect to work long hours in you first few years . Why should the tax payers pay Doctors premium rates for working Saturdays . This is just arrogance and greed. It has nothing to do with Doctors being concerned about patient care ."

Privileges? ? Such as?

Working 48 hour shifts. Working every Christmas and not seeing your kids? Being exhausted to the point of tears but still being in charge of someone's life....

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By *rightonsteveMan over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

"Thousands and thousands of people work in jobs that require a seven day service and earn nowhere near what a JD does. Cant see the problem myself, In my job I work seven days a wk for long periods, as self employed its what I do to earn a living, if they dont want to they can always get a job doing something else"

Hmmm....designing cathedrals or writing violin concertos?

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By *asokittyWoman over a year ago

Nr Worksop

"I feel sorry for the people waiting in pain who will have received calls saying their electives are cancelled tomorrow. It's a shame patients are being punished and left to suffer.

If it's elective it's not going to be an emergency. Frankly if things go on like this any longer people won't be able to afford the surgery anyway.

All power to then. Completely behind them

No, not life and death necessarily, but it doesn't mean that people aren't in huge amounts of pain waiting for electives. It seems sadistic to me to walk away from them.

Oh and I also feel sorry for those waiting for a diagnosis who have had their clinic appointments cancelled. I know the waiting for a diagnosis was worse than being diagnosed mentally for me.

So done. I've been there many times. Still behind them as my point still stands

Your support of the strike doesn't negate my sympathy for those who suffer as a result. "

As I said above I sympathise too.

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By *rightonsteveMan over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

I'd rather a doctor dealt with me or my family who was alert and fresh, not on their last legs at the end of an 18 hour shift. It's when people get ti_ed that mistakes get made. Your health is too important for that to be a risk that isn't minimised.

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By *eavenscentitCouple over a year ago

barnstaple

Its been that way ever since I started nursing in the 1980's. We are constantly told there is no money and that the nhs is failing. There is money and it is not perfect but not failing.

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By *nfamyMan over a year ago

Goole

"They are going on strike over the new contract being imposed by the health secretary jeremey hunt.

It starts tomorrow 8am and goes on until 5pm the same day. Then it resumes 8am on wednesday and finishes 5pm that day.

What do you think of them going on strike? I think it is good cos they need a good contract, although it is not fair on the patients as they are running a limit service."

The Government hasn't handle it well, I think (hope) they've research it well but it looks like they did their research on the back of a fag packet which smacks of shoddy standards.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I feel sorry for the people waiting in pain who will have received calls saying their electives are cancelled tomorrow. It's a shame patients are being punished and left to suffer.

If it's elective it's not going to be an emergency. Frankly if things go on like this any longer people won't be able to afford the surgery anyway.

All power to then. Completely behind them

No, not life and death necessarily, but it doesn't mean that people aren't in huge amounts of pain waiting for electives. It seems sadistic to me to walk away from them.

Oh and I also feel sorry for those waiting for a diagnosis who have had their clinic appointments cancelled. I know the waiting for a diagnosis was worse than being diagnosed mentally for me.

So done. I've been there many times. Still behind them as my point still stands

Your support of the strike doesn't negate my sympathy for those who suffer as a result.

As I said above I sympathise too. "

You dismissed it as "not an emergency". I wouldn't say that's sympathetic, I'd say that's supporting the strike knowing (and caring very little that) its at the cost of patients.

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By *isa 59Woman over a year ago

Newcastle

If this is the only way that they can get their point across then I am behind them. I am sure this decision won't have been taken lightly.

I agree that we need to bring the weekend staffing levels up to what they are during the week but this proposed contract is not the answer...we simply need more doctors!

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By *est Wales WifeCouple over a year ago

Near Carmarthen

" It has nothing to do with Doctors being concerned about patient care ."

Doctors (and other medical staff) are quite simply at breaking point. Why do you think lorry drivers and airline pilots etc have legally limited hours of work and rest breaks?

Do you think a starting salary of £22,500 is greed for the training, resposibility and hours?

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By *asokittyWoman over a year ago

Nr Worksop

"I feel sorry for the people waiting in pain who will have received calls saying their electives are cancelled tomorrow. It's a shame patients are being punished and left to suffer.

If it's elective it's not going to be an emergency. Frankly if things go on like this any longer people won't be able to afford the surgery anyway.

All power to then. Completely behind them

No, not life and death necessarily, but it doesn't mean that people aren't in huge amounts of pain waiting for electives. It seems sadistic to me to walk away from them.

Oh and I also feel sorry for those waiting for a diagnosis who have had their clinic appointments cancelled. I know the waiting for a diagnosis was worse than being diagnosed mentally for me.

So done. I've been there many times. Still behind them as my point still stands

Your support of the strike doesn't negate my sympathy for those who suffer as a result.

As I said above I sympathise too.

You dismissed it as "not an emergency". I wouldn't say that's sympathetic, I'd say that's supporting the strike knowing (and caring very little that) its at the cost of patients."

Not at all. I certainly didn't mean it to sound that way. It's extremely unfortunate.

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By *etter the devil you knowWoman over a year ago

Lyndhurst

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By *lanemikeMan over a year ago

Bolton

Oh yes, doing what exactly....?? We need them as doctors..

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By *asokittyWoman over a year ago

Nr Worksop

"If this is the only way that they can get their point across then I am behind them. I am sure this decision won't have been taken lightly.

I agree that we need to bring the weekend staffing levels up to what they are during the week but this proposed contract is not the answer...we simply need more doctors! "

But in order to get the same service at weekends you need more nurses/nursing assistants/lab workers/radiologists/secretaries/receptionists etc. Getting doctors to work more at weekends isn't going to solve it.

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By *asokittyWoman over a year ago

Nr Worksop

Ridiculous comment

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By *lanemikeMan over a year ago

Bolton

"If this is the only way that they can get their point across then I am behind them. I am sure this decision won't have been taken lightly.

I agree that we need to bring the weekend staffing levels up to what they are during the week but this proposed contract is not the answer...we simply need more doctors!

OK, maybe we just accept that we can't afford a seven day week health service, emergencies excepted....

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By *lanemikeMan over a year ago

Bolton

Ridiculous comment "

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By *est Wales WifeCouple over a year ago

Near Carmarthen

" if they dont want to they can always get a job doing something else"

That's the problem they certainly can including working overseas or easily transferring their skills into another field with less grief, hassle and hours.

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By *asokittyWoman over a year ago

Nr Worksop

"If this is the only way that they can get their point across then I am behind them. I am sure this decision won't have been taken lightly.

I agree that we need to bring the weekend staffing levels up to what they are during the week but this proposed contract is not the answer...we simply need more doctors!

OK, maybe we just accept that we can't afford a seven day week health service, emergencies excepted...."

That's the problem though. Hunt won't. He wants a 7 day service without giving anymore resources meaning the ones already in place are stretched further.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"If this is the only way that they can get their point across then I am behind them. I am sure this decision won't have been taken lightly.

I agree that we need to bring the weekend staffing levels up to what they are during the week but this proposed contract is not the answer...we simply need more doctors!

OK, maybe we just accept that we can't afford a seven day week health service, emergencies excepted...."

How come it costs extra to schedule a doctor to work at the weekend? It's not antisocial for retail, or businesses with clients in the UAE for example. Perhaps wasting money in areas like that should be revised.

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By *etter the devil you knowWoman over a year ago

Lyndhurst

[Removed by poster at 25/04/16 18:53:05]

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By *lanemikeMan over a year ago

Bolton

"If this is the only way that they can get their point across then I am behind them. I am sure this decision won't have been taken lightly.

I agree that we need to bring the weekend staffing levels up to what they are during the week but this proposed contract is not the answer...we simply need more doctors!

OK, maybe we just accept that we can't afford a seven day week health service, emergencies excepted....

That's the problem though. Hunt won't. He wants a 7 day service without giving anymore resources meaning the ones already in place are stretched further.

We just have to accept we, as a country, just can't afford it...

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By *asokittyWoman over a year ago

Nr Worksop

"If this is the only way that they can get their point across then I am behind them. I am sure this decision won't have been taken lightly.

I agree that we need to bring the weekend staffing levels up to what they are during the week but this proposed contract is not the answer...we simply need more doctors!

OK, maybe we just accept that we can't afford a seven day week health service, emergencies excepted....

Because there has always been unsocial hours pay. Bottom line is it's not the pay that's the issue. It's the conditions.

Not quite sure what your chip with me is but carry on.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Can someone explain to me the basics of the dispute please? I have watched it debated on Question Time and followed the news but I am still confused.

Is it about

1. Pay on a Saturday

2. Being forced to work on a Saturday

3. General pay

4. Specific pay terms

5. Overall working hours

6. Some of the above

7. None of the above

8. Some of the above and other things

I am confused.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If you can't see the problem with all our doctors leaving to do something else that rather nullifies anything else you say? How do you propose to run an NHS without doctors?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"If this is the only way that they can get their point across then I am behind them. I am sure this decision won't have been taken lightly.

I agree that we need to bring the weekend staffing levels up to what they are during the week but this proposed contract is not the answer...we simply need more doctors!

OK, maybe we just accept that we can't afford a seven day week health service, emergencies excepted....

Because there has always been unsocial hours pay. Bottom line is it's not the pay that's the issue. It's the conditions.

Not quite sure what your chip with me is but carry on.

I wasn't replying to you, you're aware that you keep replying to me?

Also "that's the way it's always been" isn't a good reason.

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By *isa 59Woman over a year ago

Newcastle

"If this is the only way that they can get their point across then I am behind them. I am sure this decision won't have been taken lightly.

I agree that we need to bring the weekend staffing levels up to what they are during the week but this proposed contract is not the answer...we simply need more doctors!

I think you've taken my comment about simply needing more doctors a bit too literally...or perhaps it was poor phrasing on my part, for which I apologise. I'm ex NHS so I know exactly what's requi_ed for 7-day working but the thread was about whether we support the 'doctors' in their strike action.

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By *est Wales WifeCouple over a year ago

Near Carmarthen

In case anyone has failed to notice we already have a 7 day service. Anyone ever heard of someone being turned away from hospital after a car crash on a Saturday?

'Sorry mate we're closed until Monday?'

Hunt is talking through his backside.

Perhaps we can 7 day a week access to our politicians who we pay for?

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By *asokittyWoman over a year ago

Nr Worksop

"If this is the only way that they can get their point across then I am behind them. I am sure this decision won't have been taken lightly.

I agree that we need to bring the weekend staffing levels up to what they are during the week but this proposed contract is not the answer...we simply need more doctors!

Possibly me misreading. I may have not quoted the right thing!

Sorry. But yeah there are sadly lots of people, and unfortunately people in charge that think it's simply just getting doctors to work more hours.

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By *asokittyWoman over a year ago

Nr Worksop

"In case anyone has failed to notice we already have a 7 day service. Anyone ever heard of someone being turned away from hospital after a car crash on a Saturday?

'Sorry mate we're closed until Monday?'

Hunt is talking through his backside.

Perhaps we can 7 day a week access to our politicians who we pay for? "

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I think though it may be a fair deal (I don't know the details) I can't blame them as I'd be annoyed at having a new contract forced on me.

A full walk out does risk alienatinf public though

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"In case anyone has failed to notice we already have a 7 day service. Anyone ever heard of someone being turned away from hospital after a car crash on a Saturday?

'Sorry mate we're closed until Monday?'

Hunt is talking through his backside.

Perhaps we can 7 day a week access to our politicians who we pay for? "

That's 7 day emergency care, not a full 7 day NHS service.

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By *uriousc88Woman over a year ago

Reading

I think with the way the government and the media are trying to turn this into a witch hunt, it would be very easy to dismiss this as greed and arrogance on the part of junior doctors.

"It's normal to work overtime when you're starting out in your career." Etc.

Difference is, if I work overtime and lose a bit of concentration, a line of data might get ente_ed wrong and someone gets over or underpaid.

A junior doctor works overtime, loses concentration (because they're overworked, under supported, not to mention mentally and physically exhausted), and people die.

The potential risk in my job is that my company might lose a bit of money. So I am remunerated accordingly.

For a junior doctor, the potential risks are death, lifelong injury, or extreme trauma. So yes, they SHOULD get paid according to the potential risks of the decisions they have to make.

Please do some real research on what the current plans will mean for junior doctors rotas, hours worked, etc, before dismissing it as 'greedy overpaid doctors'

There are not enough junior doctors in emergency medicine as it is, (possibly illegally) imposing a contract which means unfair and unsafe working hours, with little to no consequence for the hospital trust for forcing junior doctors to work more than reasonable hours, is only going to put pressure on an already overworked staff and demoralised staff.

Please also remember that the BMA and the Royal colleges, as well as a cross party group of MPs, have approached Mr Hunt with at least 2 possible solutions to the problem, and Mr Hunt has refused to return to the negotiating table.

Apart from anything else, having extra doctors on wards will mean nothing if there aren't the additional auxiliary staff also present. A Junior Doctor can prescribe painkillers but, if the dispensing pharmacist isn't present, the drugs can't be dispensed. Likewise a diagnostic X-Ray can't be completed without a radiographer present.

The Junior Doctor contract will not result in 'a truly 7 day NHS'...we already have a 7 day NHS. It's just that sometimes, if you're not immediately in need, you have to wait until you can be treated.

The NHS provides some of the best emergency medical care IN THE WORLD. It is also the absolute best service of its kind in the world. Its staff are there when they are needed, day in and day out. All of this, and it is free at the point of service! Take a moment to think about what we have, and the consequences for us if we lose that.

Throughout the contract negotiations, Jeremy Hunt has consistently been discove_ed to be manipulating the truth or, in actual fact, outright lying. Contrast that with individuals who have dedicated at least 7 years of their lives to learning how to care for people, how to fix us when we are broken.

Personally, I know in whom I'd rather put my faith.

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By *est Wales WifeCouple over a year ago

Near Carmarthen

"In case anyone has failed to notice we already have a 7 day service. Anyone ever heard of someone being turned away from hospital after a car crash on a Saturday?

'Sorry mate we're closed until Monday?'

Hunt is talking through his backside.

Perhaps we can 7 day a week access to our politicians who we pay for?

That's 7 day emergency care, not a full 7 day NHS service. "

So they kick out all the recuperating knee and hip operations on a Friday evening a 5.00 p.m.?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"In case anyone has failed to notice we already have a 7 day service. Anyone ever heard of someone being turned away from hospital after a car crash on a Saturday?

'Sorry mate we're closed until Monday?'

Hunt is talking through his backside.

Perhaps we can 7 day a week access to our politicians who we pay for?

That's 7 day emergency care, not a full 7 day NHS service.

So they kick out all the recuperating knee and hip operations on a Friday evening a 5.00 p.m.?"

When have you ever had an elective surgery scheduled for a Sunday, or seen your GP with a normal appointment on a Sunday? That would make it a 7 day NHS.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Can someone explain to me the basics of the dispute please? I have watched it debated on Question Time and followed the news but I am still confused.

Is it about

1. Pay on a Saturday

2. Being forced to work on a Saturday

3. General pay

4. Specific pay terms

5. Overall working hours

6. Some of the above

7. None of the above

8. Some of the above and other things

I am confused."

Awww, go on someone, please help me out on this? I really can't whinge or cheer without knowing.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The NHS is under enormous pressure at present. It's literally creaking at the hinges and is struggling to cope with what have been many underhand cuts to services as well as massively increased need.

Whether or not a 7-day service of the kind that is proposed (although there are no firm details on that) is either necessary or helpful is unclear. Certainly most independent research has questioned the need for it - and particularly at this time.

So why, when the service is struggling so much, try to impose a new controversial system upon it - and try to do it with very little extra resources? Why force contract changes on staff? and why, in particular, deliberately choose to target JD's first? There is no question that other staff will quickly follow)

It's either madness, or something much more concerning....

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By *asokittyWoman over a year ago

Nr Worksop

I think with the way the government and the media are trying to turn this into a witch hunt, it would be very easy to dismiss this as greed and arrogance on the part of junior doctors.

"It's normal to work overtime when you're starting out in your career." Etc.

Difference is, if I work overtime and lose a bit of concentration, a line of data might get ente_ed wrong and someone gets over or underpaid.

A junior doctor works overtime, loses concentration (because they're overworked, under supported, not to mention mentally and physically exhausted), and people die.

The potential risk in my job is that my company might lose a bit of money. So I am remunerated accordingly.

For a junior doctor, the potential risks are death, lifelong injury, or extreme trauma. So yes, they SHOULD get paid according to the potential risks of the decisions they have to make.

Please do some real research on what the current plans will mean for junior doctors rotas, hours worked, etc, before dismissing it as 'greedy overpaid doctors'

Personally, I know in whom I'd rather put my faith.

Brilliantly explained!!! Thank you

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By *obka3Couple over a year ago

bournemouth

Ridiculous comment "

Why ? If you or I dont like the terms and conditions of a job then we can leave and find a better one, no one will say they dont do a very important job but so do many others including care workes who work for far less and just as long.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *asokittyWoman over a year ago

Nr Worksop

I think with the way the government and the media are trying to turn this into a witch hunt, it would be very easy to dismiss this as greed and arrogance on the part of junior doctors.

"It's normal to work overtime when you're starting out in your career." Etc.

Difference is, if I work overtime and lose a bit of concentration, a line of data might get ente_ed wrong and someone gets over or underpaid.

A junior doctor works overtime, loses concentration (because they're overworked, under supported, not to mention mentally and physically exhausted), and people die.

The potential risk in my job is that my company might lose a bit of money. So I am remunerated accordingly.

For a junior doctor, the potential risks are death, lifelong injury, or extreme trauma. So yes, they SHOULD get paid according to the potential risks of the decisions they have to make.

Please do some real research on what the current plans will mean for junior doctors rotas, hours worked, etc, before dismissing it as 'greedy overpaid doctors'

Personally, I know in whom I'd rather put my faith.

Brilliantly explained!!! Thank you

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *uriousc88Woman over a year ago

Reading

"Can someone explain to me the basics of the dispute please? I have watched it debated on Question Time and followed the news but I am still confused.

Is it about

1. Pay on a Saturday

2. Being forced to work on a Saturday

3. General pay

4. Specific pay terms

5. Overall working hours

6. Some of the above

7. None of the above

8. Some of the above and other things

I am confused."

Short answer is No.8

There are lots of things wrong with the contract but, for the most part, the contract means that junior doctors will mainly be paid less for doing the same amount of, if not more, work.

The consequences for hospital trusts (employers) are not particularly dire if they decide to force their JDs to work more than reasonable hours, meaning that there's no reason for them to not do so.

It's a really big, complex issue that is being oversimplified by the media and the government to try to negate the public sympathy.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Less pay and bonuses etc for MP's more money for doctors.

Simple.

But then the tory scum are trying to destroy the NHS.

And doing a good job of it.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Can someone explain to me the basics of the dispute please? I have watched it debated on Question Time and followed the news but I am still confused.

Is it about

1. Pay on a Saturday

2. Being forced to work on a Saturday

3. General pay

4. Specific pay terms

5. Overall working hours

6. Some of the above

7. None of the above

8. Some of the above and other things

I am confused.

Awww, go on someone, please help me out on this? I really can't whinge or cheer without knowing."

It's all so massively inconsistent. Each person interviewed in favour of the strike has a different problem.

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By *asokittyWoman over a year ago

Nr Worksop

Ridiculous comment

Because there's not enough doctors...part of the strike reasons...

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By *etter the devil you knowWoman over a year ago

Lyndhurst

Ridiculous comment

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By *anejohnkent6263Couple over a year ago

canterbury

if u don't like your contract of employ show some balls and fuck off abroad.....there are plenty of doctors without placements, if not we will get some more from abroad who at least know what a days work is....all for 43k per year plus xtra payments ....not a bad screw

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By *its_n_piecesCouple over a year ago

Ridiculous comment

so what exactly is your back up plan when they all walk away from this particular career as you suggest?

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By *asokittyWoman over a year ago

Nr Worksop

It's all smoke and mirrors to _edirect the public away from the fact MP's work half the year for double the pay. And it the half the year they are in work they do nothing but a screw over anyone not warning over 300k per year.

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By *obka3Couple over a year ago

bournemouth

If you can't see the problem with all our doctors leaving to do something else that rather nullifies anything else you say? How do you propose to run an NHS without doctors?"
there wont be any need to run it without them because when it comes to it they will see they do pretty well compa_ed to many others

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By *est Wales WifeCouple over a year ago

Near Carmarthen

"When have you ever had an elective surgery scheduled for a Sunday, or seen your GP with a normal appointment on a Sunday? That would make it a 7 day NHS. "

The NHS operates 24 hours a day 7 days a week, if you wish to have GP appointments at 10.00 p.m. on a Sunday that's fine. But you have to resouce it not spread it thinner. In that scenario you need more doctors, receptionists, diagnostic services, nurse, caretakers etc etc.

If society wishes to fund that well fine. The problem is that there are no more doctors etc. or resources to fund them One third of GPs are planning to take early retirement in the next 5 years because they have had enough.

This is all about destabilising the NHS to bring about privatisation. And guess where that will lead? You want to try getting an NHS dentist round Carmarthenshire.

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By *etter the devil you knowWoman over a year ago

Lyndhurst

"if u don't like your contract of employ show some balls and fuck off abroad.....there are plenty of doctors without placements, if not we will get some more from abroad who at least know what a days work is....all for 43k per year plus xtra payments ....not a bad screw"

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By *asokittyWoman over a year ago

Nr Worksop

Where pray tell are all these doctors hiding? Is this why we recruit from abroad because they're all hiding away??

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Ridiculous comment

Doctors are walking out in unprecedented numbers - to Australia, Canada, the US, to private providers. As taxpayers we have all made huge contributions to their training, I'd hope that most people would prefer to keep them by paying them competitively and, more importantly, allowing the proper conditions to do the job properly.

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By *est Wales WifeCouple over a year ago

Near Carmarthen

"there are plenty of doctors without placements,"

Really? Can we see your reference for that. Meanwhile if it's such a great job just get yourself 3 A* 'A' levels, study for 6 years and get yourself a 'cushy little number'

Better still have no qualifications and become an MP for a lot more money and half the hours.

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By *obka3Couple over a year ago

bournemouth

Ridiculous comment

so what exactly is your back up plan when they all walk away from this particular career as you suggest?"

cant see many going anywhere, their pay is well above the national average and a big % of jobs require weekend working as part of their normal hours these days, I am not saying that there isn't a need for more doctors that is a completely different subject

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Can someone explain to me the basics of the dispute please? I have watched it debated on Question Time and followed the news but I am still confused.

Is it about

1. Pay on a Saturday

2. Being forced to work on a Saturday

3. General pay

4. Specific pay terms

5. Overall working hours

6. Some of the above

7. None of the above

8. Some of the above and other things

I am confused.

Short answer is No.8

There are lots of things wrong with the contract but, for the most part, the contract means that junior doctors will mainly be paid less for doing the same amount of, if not more, work.

The consequences for hospital trusts (employers) are not particularly dire if they decide to force their JDs to work more than reasonable hours, meaning that there's no reason for them to not do so.

It's a really big, complex issue that is being oversimplified by the media and the government to try to negate the public sympathy.

Thanks! I knew it wasn't as simple as many portray. I am still none the wiser though. (Everyone else on this post seems to have a clear opinion though, so it may just be me being stoopid).

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"When have you ever had an elective surgery scheduled for a Sunday, or seen your GP with a normal appointment on a Sunday? That would make it a 7 day NHS.

This is all about destabilising the NHS to bring about privatisation. And guess where that will lead? You want to try getting an NHS dentist round Carmarthenshire."

But that's a 7 day NHS, it doesn't change meaning just cos you don't think it's viable

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By *its_n_piecesCouple over a year ago

Ridiculous comment

so what exactly is your back up plan when they all walk away from this particular career as you suggest?

that doesn't answer my question.

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By *rightonsteveMan over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

"there are plenty of doctors without placements,

Really? Can we see your reference for that. Meanwhile if it's such a great job just get yourself 3 A* 'A' levels, study for 6 years and get yourself a 'cushy little number'

Better still have no qualifications and become an MP for a lot more money and half the hours."

See my comment earlier. Would Jeremy Hunt reconsider his stance if he needed emergency surgery and the yawning surgeon said 'which leg?'

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By *anejohnkent6263Couple over a year ago

canterbury

god u so right some piss poor a levels ,years pissing it up and party time...6 yrs doctor.....takes longer to be a vet by the way

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By *asokittyWoman over a year ago

Nr Worksop

"there are plenty of doctors without placements,

Really? Can we see your reference for that. Meanwhile if it's such a great job just get yourself 3 A* 'A' levels, study for 6 years and get yourself a 'cushy little number'

Better still have no qualifications and become an MP for a lot more money and half the hours.

See my comment earlier. Would Jeremy Hunt reconsider his stance if he needed emergency surgery and the yawning surgeon said 'which leg?'"

I want to be in theatre for this!

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By *asokittyWoman over a year ago

Nr Worksop

"god u so right some piss poor a levels ,years pissing it up and party time...6 yrs doctor.....takes longer to be a vet by the way"

Oh you are adorable!!!

If you genuinely believe that then I feel for you.

Maybe mention this next time you need their help.

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By *anejohnkent6263Couple over a year ago

canterbury

no thanks I go private

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"god u so right some piss poor a levels ,years pissing it up and party time...6 yrs doctor.....takes longer to be a vet by the way"

Fucking Hell !!!!!

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By *asokittyWoman over a year ago

Nr Worksop

"no thanks I go private"

.....they still did the same training. It's not different training for private doctors you know.

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By *uriousc88Woman over a year ago

Reading

"god u so right some piss poor a levels ,years pissing it up and party time...6 yrs doctor.....takes longer to be a vet by the way"

Or sitting at home working while your flat mates live it up. Attending lectures from 0830 to 1730, Monday to Friday, and then having to do extra work outside those hours, while paying for the privilege.

Have you actually been to uni? Or do you just get your understanding of student behaviour from articles in the daily mail?

It does take longer to initially qualify as a vet, you're right. Because doctors only have to learn one lot of anatomy where vets have to learn multiple anatomies. Doctors then spend the next few years of their career first identifying their specialty area, then completing (and paying for out of their own pocket) further training to qualify in their area of special expertise.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I feel sorry for the people waiting in pain who will have received calls saying their electives are cancelled tomorrow. It's a shame patients are being punished and left to suffer.

If it's elective it's not going to be an emergency. Frankly if things go on like this any longer people won't be able to afford the surgery anyway.

All power to then. Completely behind them

No, not life and death necessarily, but it doesn't mean that people aren't in huge amounts of pain waiting for electives. It seems sadistic to me to walk away from them. "

I agree with you.

I had planned surgery recently. I had waited a long time for it. I was in huge pain and had been for many years. When i got my date my work place organised cover for me. My hubby and his work place sorted out cover for him. We organised the hire of specialised equipment and alte_ed how our house is set out to enable me to be able to get about once home. My children were prepa_ed for it.

I was nervous that my surgery would be cancelled and was warned that it was a possibility but we still had to sort out everything as if it was going ahead.

If it had been cancelled due to the strike i would have been devastated. Plus our work places would have been seriously out of pocket. Plus we would have been out of pocket because we would still have to pay for the hi_ed equipment. I would have to spend heaven knows how much longer in pain with limited mobility. Not to mention the emotional issues surrounding it. Then we would have to do all that preparation again for the new date !!!

I am behind the junior doctors but i don't agree with strike action. They should find other ways to resolve this issue !

I used to be a nurse and there was strike action taken while i was nursing however i didn't agree with striking then either so i worked, i did the job of several other members of staff to enable the patients to be kept safe and ca_ed for. That strike didn't solve anything then either !

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

so what your saying is its ok to have immigrant doctors coming in..?

you have changed your tune, normally your calling all immigrants scroungers, a drain, leeches not those who know what a days work is..

having balls btw is not about running away (another volte-face given you have been referring to the Syrians fleeing as cowards?), having balls is not being bullied by some duplicitous Politician who is hell bent on trouble..

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"god u so right some piss poor a levels ,years pissing it up and party time...6 yrs doctor.....takes longer to be a vet by the way"
.

Of course it does! It's exactly the same job but you have the added problem of working on several different species that are very different!.

Vets share practically the exact same university courses for about 5 years.

PS vets get paid more than doctors

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I feel sorry for the people waiting in pain who will have received calls saying their electives are cancelled tomorrow. It's a shame patients are being punished and left to suffer.

If it's elective it's not going to be an emergency. Frankly if things go on like this any longer people won't be able to afford the surgery anyway.

All power to then. Completely behind them

No, not life and death necessarily, but it doesn't mean that people aren't in huge amounts of pain waiting for electives. It seems sadistic to me to walk away from them.

I agree with you.

I was nervous that my surgery would be cancelled and was warned that it was a possibility but we still had to sort out everything as if it was going ahead.

I am behind the junior doctors but i don't agree with strike action. They should find other ways to resolve this issue !

It should be a discussion between them and management. I don't agree with people suffering just so some people can make a point. It seems the opposite of what a doctor should do.

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By *rightonsteveMan over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

Obviously in the short term, the junior doctors strike will affect people. If it didn't, their action would have no effect. Better to complain to Jeremy Hunt that his actions are causing pain and dismay as he has equal power to relieve them, if not the skills or experience or qualifications or knowledge.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Being x front line nhs i am fully behind the doctors. As mentioned on the news, consultants will be covering. They are more experiencex, so if anything, the cover will be to a high standard. Yes, those waiting for operations will suffer, but the stakes are very high and hunt rejected a pilot scheme, backed by cross party groups ffs!! Do you want an untried system rolled out? Hunt is the cause of this!!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Ridiculous comment

so what exactly is your back up plan when they all walk away from this particular career as you suggest?

So you don't think that pay and conditions are linked in any way to the lack of NHS doctors in many specialities?

Biggest problems with this contract are that it discriminates against women (who make up 60% of the workforce), it disincentivises doctors from choosing a career in the most acute specialities such as A&E with the biggest pay cuts and it will exacerbate existing staffing shortages which is not safe for those left behind and for patients.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"god u so right some piss poor a levels ,years pissing it up and party time...6 yrs doctor.....takes longer to be a vet by the way.

Of course it does! It's exactly the same job but you have the added problem of working on several different species that are very different!.

Vets share practically the exact same university courses for about 5 years.

PS vets get paid more than doctors"

PS. Vets take a longer course than doctors. Go figure.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Ridiculous comment

so what exactly is your back up plan when they all walk away from this particular career as you suggest?

So you don't think that pay and conditions are linked in any way to the lack of NHS doctors in many specialities?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"god u so right some piss poor a levels ,years pissing it up and party time...6 yrs doctor.....takes longer to be a vet by the way.

Of course it does! It's exactly the same job but you have the added problem of working on several different species that are very different!.

Vets share practically the exact same university courses for about 5 years.

PS vets get paid more than doctors

PS. Vets take a longer course than doctors. Go figure."
.

I know, it's like it comes as fucking shock to some people..

Where the fucks Shipman when you need him

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By *obka3Couple over a year ago

bournemouth

No they dont average vet pay is 30,000 a year unless they do large animal practice and get more experience then it rises to about the same level as a qualified JD, and they will turn up at any time of the day or night in all winds or weather, try getting a GP to do a home call at night, many now opt out of doing out of hours calls

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

"Obviously in the short term, the junior doctors strike will affect people. If it didn't, their action would have no effect. Better to complain to Jeremy Hunt that his actions are causing pain and dismay as he has equal power to relieve them, if not the skills or experience or qualifications or knowledge. "

theis..

the BMA have been asking for talks since the last strike and even today said they would call off the Industrial action if the threat of imposition was removed..

Hunts response is to ignore the call for talks to resolve the issue and to say that they the BMA are trying to bring the Government down!

complete codswallop and his actions are to play roulette with patients care ..

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By *rightonsteveMan over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

"god u so right some piss poor a levels ,years pissing it up and party time...6 yrs doctor.....takes longer to be a vet by the way.

Of course it does! It's exactly the same job but you have the added problem of working on several different species that are very different!.

Vets share practically the exact same university courses for about 5 years.

PS vets get paid more than doctors

PS. Vets take a longer course than doctors. Go figure."

Ah....one of the obvious reasons is that doctors deal with humans who, physiologically speaking, are all generally the same but bets hVe to deal with hamsters and elephants via birds and snakes, the insides of which tend to be in different places and also doctors don't have to put their arms up cows woo-woos but vets do especially in Yorkshire.

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By *obka3Couple over a year ago

bournemouth

Ridiculous comment

so what exactly is your back up plan when they all walk away from this particular career as you suggest?

So you don't think that pay and conditions are linked in any way to the lack of NHS doctors in many specialities?

Why does it discriminate against women?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"No they dont average vet pay is 30,000 a year unless they do large animal practice and get more experience then it rises to about the same level as a qualified JD, and they will turn up at any time of the day or night in all winds or weather, try getting a GP to do a home call at night, many now opt out of doing out of hours calls "

GPs are not junior doctors and are thus irrelevant to this strike.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I feel sorry for the people waiting in pain who will have received calls saying their electives are cancelled tomorrow. It's a shame patients are being punished and left to suffer.

If it's elective it's not going to be an emergency. Frankly if things go on like this any longer people won't be able to afford the surgery anyway.

All power to then. Completely behind them

No, not life and death necessarily, but it doesn't mean that people aren't in huge amounts of pain waiting for electives. It seems sadistic to me to walk away from them.

I agree with you.

I was nervous that my surgery would be cancelled and was warned that it was a possibility but we still had to sort out everything as if it was going ahead.

I am behind the junior doctors but i don't agree with strike action. They should find other ways to resolve this issue !

It should be a discussion between them and management. I don't agree with people suffering just so some people can make a point. It seems the opposite of what a doctor should do. "

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Ridiculous comment

so what exactly is your back up plan when they all walk away from this particular career as you suggest?

So you don't think that pay and conditions are linked in any way to the lack of NHS doctors in many specialities?

Why does it discriminate against women? "
impacts on single parents with hours

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Ridiculous comment

so what exactly is your back up plan when they all walk away from this particular career as you suggest?

So you don't think that pay and conditions are linked in any way to the lack of NHS doctors in many specialities?

Why does it discriminate against women? impacts on single parents with hours"

That's not discrimination

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Ridiculous comment

so what exactly is your back up plan when they all walk away from this particular career as you suggest?

So you don't think that pay and conditions are linked in any way to the lack of NHS doctors in many specialities?

Why does it discriminate against women? impacts on single parents with hours"
majority being women apparently

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

So you don't think that pay and conditions are linked in any way to the lack of NHS doctors in many specialities?

Why does it discriminate against women? "

The government's own equality assessment for what it's worth admits that the brunt of the negative effects will be borne by women, single mothers in particular. It will widen the gender pay gap in medicine and force many women out of their jobs as they find they can no longer afford childcare or juggle family life with their work.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Ridiculous comment

so what exactly is your back up plan when they all walk away from this particular career as you suggest?

So you don't think that pay and conditions are linked in any way to the lack of NHS doctors in many specialities?

Why does it discriminate against women? impacts on single parents with hours

That's not discrimination

Yes it is. Refer to the legal case of Michelle Chew vs Avon and Somerset police.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Can anyone help me find the interview with a female doctor (also a single mother) explaining that she'll only have ~£80 a day left over after all outgoings (mortgage, car, bills, childcare, living expenses)?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Ridiculous comment

so what exactly is your back up plan when they all walk away from this particular career as you suggest?

So you don't think that pay and conditions are linked in any way to the lack of NHS doctors in many specialities?

Why does it discriminate against women? impacts on single parents with hours

That's not discrimination

"
tell you what.. I'll come over to where you work, rewrite your contract and try to force you to sign it. Ok?

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By *rightonsteveMan over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

"Can anyone help me find the interview with a female doctor (also a single mother) explaining that she'll only have ~£80 a day left over after all outgoings (mortgage, car, bills, childcare, living expenses)?"

It's all relative. £80 to someone with very little is a lot, £80 to someone with a healthy salary is peanuts. It's not just about pay....my concern is that I don't want an over ti_ed doctor treating me as they may make a mistake.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Ridiculous comment

so what exactly is your back up plan when they all walk away from this particular career as you suggest?

So you don't think that pay and conditions are linked in any way to the lack of NHS doctors in many specialities?

Why does it discriminate against women? impacts on single parents with hours

That's not discrimination

Yes it is. Refer to the legal case of Michelle Chew vs Avon and Somerset police. "

How is that case (allowing flexible working) related to doctor's pay being less if they take time out for maternity?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Ridiculous comment

so what exactly is your back up plan when they all walk away from this particular career as you suggest?

So you don't think that pay and conditions are linked in any way to the lack of NHS doctors in many specialities?

Why does it discriminate against women? impacts on single parents with hours

That's not discrimination

tell you what.. I'll come over to where you work, rewrite your contract and try to force you to sign it. Ok? "

Sure. It's still not discrimination.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"god u so right some piss poor a levels ,years pissing it up and party time...6 yrs doctor.....takes longer to be a vet by the way.

Of course it does! It's exactly the same job but you have the added problem of working on several different species that are very different!.

Vets share practically the exact same university courses for about 5 years.

PS vets get paid more than doctors

PS. Vets take a longer course than doctors. Go figure.

True. A dentist has a longer university course than a doctor, too. I don't think they have to put their arms up a cows woo-woo.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *rightonsteveMan over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

"god u so right some piss poor a levels ,years pissing it up and party time...6 yrs doctor.....takes longer to be a vet by the way.

Of course it does! It's exactly the same job but you have the added problem of working on several different species that are very different!.

Vets share practically the exact same university courses for about 5 years.

PS vets get paid more than doctors

PS. Vets take a longer course than doctors. Go figure.

True. A dentist has a longer university course than a doctor, too. I don't think they have to put their arms up a cows woo-woo."

Not that they'd tell you as they was doing your teef.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Just gonna mention again that our A&E shut down recently because there's not enough staff for it because of the way the NHS is being run...

Things are being shut down as of now.

There'll be no services for anyone wanting test results, or even tests, if people don't oppose this and strike..

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

20k free cash isnt something to scoff at. Anyway, I don't see why an educated doctor would not realise they're unfit to treat a patient.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I feel sorry for the people waiting in pain who will have received calls saying their electives are cancelled tomorrow. It's a shame patients are being punished and left to suffer.

If it's elective it's not going to be an emergency. Frankly if things go on like this any longer people won't be able to afford the surgery anyway.

All power to then. Completely behind them

No, not life and death necessarily, but it doesn't mean that people aren't in huge amounts of pain waiting for electives. It seems sadistic to me to walk away from them.

I agree with you.

I was nervous that my surgery would be cancelled and was warned that it was a possibility but we still had to sort out everything as if it was going ahead.

I am behind the junior doctors but i don't agree with strike action. They should find other ways to resolve this issue !

It should be a discussion between them and management. I don't agree with people suffering just so some people can make a point. It seems the opposite of what a doctor should do. "

What if the management have lied, misinformed, treated with contempt, consistently refused talks on any reasonable terms (including this week) and have an agenda to break up the service you work for and believe in; and finally have stuck two fingers up and said take the terms that you absolutely believe will be dangerous and provide a poorer service for all patients, or lump it.

What would you do then?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ath_Neil_bifunCouple over a year ago

near cardiff

"I feel sorry for the people waiting in pain who will have received calls saying their electives are cancelled tomorrow. It's a shame patients are being punished and left to suffer.

If it's elective it's not going to be an emergency. Frankly if things go on like this any longer people won't be able to afford the surgery anyway.

All power to then. Completely behind them

No, not life and death necessarily, but it doesn't mean that people aren't in huge amounts of pain waiting for electives. It seems sadistic to me to walk away from them.

Oh and I also feel sorry for those waiting for a diagnosis who have had their clinic appointments cancelled. I know the waiting for a diagnosis was worse than being diagnosed mentally for me.

So done. I've been there many times. Still behind them as my point still stands

Your support of the strike doesn't negate my sympathy for those who suffer as a result.

As I said above I sympathise too.

You dismissed it as "not an emergency". I wouldn't say that's sympathetic, I'd say that's supporting the strike knowing (and caring very little that) its at the cost of patients."

But the actual point is they are striking for the benefit of their patients in the long term. All their patients.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *asokittyWoman over a year ago

Nr Worksop

"Just gonna mention again that our A&E shut down recently because there's not enough staff for it because of the way the NHS is being run...

Things are being shut down as of now.

There'll be no services for anyone wanting test results, or even tests, if people don't oppose this and strike.."

Exactly this

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Ridiculous comment

so what exactly is your back up plan when they all walk away from this particular career as you suggest?

So you don't think that pay and conditions are linked in any way to the lack of NHS doctors in many specialities?

Why does it discriminate against women? impacts on single parents with hours

That's not discrimination

Yes it is. Refer to the legal case of Michelle Chew vs Avon and Somerset police.

How is that case (allowing flexible working) related to doctor's pay being less if they take time out for maternity?"
explaint to me, why you follow the government line, when they manufactu_ed this problem

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I feel sorry for the people waiting in pain who will have received calls saying their electives are cancelled tomorrow. It's a shame patients are being punished and left to suffer.

If it's elective it's not going to be an emergency. Frankly if things go on like this any longer people won't be able to afford the surgery anyway.

All power to then. Completely behind them

No, not life and death necessarily, but it doesn't mean that people aren't in huge amounts of pain waiting for electives. It seems sadistic to me to walk away from them.

I agree with you.

I was nervous that my surgery would be cancelled and was warned that it was a possibility but we still had to sort out everything as if it was going ahead.

I am behind the junior doctors but i don't agree with strike action. They should find other ways to resolve this issue !

It should be a discussion between them and management. I don't agree with people suffering just so some people can make a point. It seems the opposite of what a doctor should do.

What would you do then?

Yeh you're right, in those cases I'd go against my training and refuse to treat people in need knowing I'm one of the few legally allowed to.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *rightonsteveMan over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

20k free cash isnt something to scoff at. Anyway, I don't see why an educated doctor would not realise they're unfit to treat a patient. "

They do! That's one of the reasons why they are striking because Hunt doesn't realise (or does but doesn't care about consequences to patients) that people don't operate (pun intended) at peak performance when they are ti_ed.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I feel sorry for the people waiting in pain who will have received calls saying their electives are cancelled tomorrow. It's a shame patients are being punished and left to suffer.

If it's elective it's not going to be an emergency. Frankly if things go on like this any longer people won't be able to afford the surgery anyway.

All power to then. Completely behind them

No, not life and death necessarily, but it doesn't mean that people aren't in huge amounts of pain waiting for electives. It seems sadistic to me to walk away from them.

Oh and I also feel sorry for those waiting for a diagnosis who have had their clinic appointments cancelled. I know the waiting for a diagnosis was worse than being diagnosed mentally for me.

So done. I've been there many times. Still behind them as my point still stands

Your support of the strike doesn't negate my sympathy for those who suffer as a result.

As I said above I sympathise too.

You dismissed it as "not an emergency". I wouldn't say that's sympathetic, I'd say that's supporting the strike knowing (and caring very little that) its at the cost of patients.

But the actual point is they are striking for the benefit of their patients in the long term. All their patients. "

For the patients at the expense of the patients doesn't make sense to me. It's like an abusive partner hitting out for their own benefit.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Ridiculous comment

so what exactly is your back up plan when they all walk away from this particular career as you suggest?

So you don't think that pay and conditions are linked in any way to the lack of NHS doctors in many specialities?

Why does it discriminate against women? impacts on single parents with hours

That's not discrimination

Yes it is. Refer to the legal case of Michelle Chew vs Avon and Somerset police.

I do not understand your question.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Ridiculous comment

so what exactly is your back up plan when they all walk away from this particular career as you suggest?

So you don't think that pay and conditions are linked in any way to the lack of NHS doctors in many specialities?

Why does it discriminate against women? impacts on single parents with hours

That's not discrimination

Yes it is. Refer to the legal case of Michelle Chew vs Avon and Somerset police.

How is that case (allowing flexible working) related to doctor's pay being less if they take time out for maternity? explaint to me, why you follow the government line, when they manufactu_ed this problem"
why do you follow a politician's line, rather than those in the profession telling you otherwise

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Ridiculous comment

so what exactly is your back up plan when they all walk away from this particular career as you suggest?

So you don't think that pay and conditions are linked in any way to the lack of NHS doctors in many specialities?

Why does it discriminate against women? impacts on single parents with hours

That's not discrimination

Yes it is. Refer to the legal case of Michelle Chew vs Avon and Somerset police.

How is that case (allowing flexible working) related to doctor's pay being less if they take time out for maternity?"

I didn't mention maternity. It's inhibition of promotion when you can't work enough hours because they won't give you the hours you need. Constructive dismissal when you can't afford childcare to go to work so have to quit. All discrimination. Even the government have admitted it discriminates against women.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Ridiculous comment

so what exactly is your back up plan when they all walk away from this particular career as you suggest?

So you don't think that pay and conditions are linked in any way to the lack of NHS doctors in many specialities?

Why does it discriminate against women? impacts on single parents with hours

That's not discrimination

Yes it is. Refer to the legal case of Michelle Chew vs Avon and Somerset police.

How is that case (allowing flexible working) related to doctor's pay being less if they take time out for maternity? explaint to me, why you follow the government line, when they manufactu_ed this problem why do you follow a politician's line, rather than those in the profession telling you otherwise "

I'm not, I just think striking when you're responsible for the care of people is not on.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Ridiculous comment

so what exactly is your back up plan when they all walk away from this particular career as you suggest?

So you don't think that pay and conditions are linked in any way to the lack of NHS doctors in many specialities?

Why does it discriminate against women? impacts on single parents with hours

That's not discrimination

Yes it is. Refer to the legal case of Michelle Chew vs Avon and Somerset police.

I do not understand your question. "
Hunt's version of events and his contract

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I feel sorry for the people waiting in pain who will have received calls saying their electives are cancelled tomorrow. It's a shame patients are being punished and left to suffer.

If it's elective it's not going to be an emergency. Frankly if things go on like this any longer people won't be able to afford the surgery anyway.

All power to then. Completely behind them

No, not life and death necessarily, but it doesn't mean that people aren't in huge amounts of pain waiting for electives. It seems sadistic to me to walk away from them.

Oh and I also feel sorry for those waiting for a diagnosis who have had their clinic appointments cancelled. I know the waiting for a diagnosis was worse than being diagnosed mentally for me.

So done. I've been there many times. Still behind them as my point still stands

Your support of the strike doesn't negate my sympathy for those who suffer as a result.

As I said above I sympathise too.

You dismissed it as "not an emergency". I wouldn't say that's sympathetic, I'd say that's supporting the strike knowing (and caring very little that) its at the cost of patients.

But the actual point is they are striking for the benefit of their patients in the long term. All their patients.

For the patients at the expense of the patients doesn't make sense to me. It's like an abusive partner hitting out for their own benefit. "

The patients are not an emergency, so not going to die. They are just going to be inconvenienced.

Without the strike you are going to lose services anyway, some have gone already.

So it totally makes sense to plan for the future of the nhs, than to carry on doing your job and allow the government take things away from us that are worse than one days inconvenience for non-priority patients.

Nobody is invalidating that being inconvenienced is not a problem, but there's bigger problems than that right now and you can't sort them out by ignoring them and carrying on like nothing is happening to our NHS.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The terms offe_ed will effect different specialties differently. Some doctors will benefit financially, although their hours and terms will increase.

Others - in particular A&E and critical care, already the most difficult areas to recruit to, will see a substantial pay cut.

Why did Hunt absolutely, without discussion, reject proposals by the Royal Colleges and others to trial the new contract in a few areas before imposing it nationally? It seems very sensible proposal.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Just gonna mention again that our A&E shut down recently because there's not enough staff for it because of the way the NHS is being run...

Things are being shut down as of now.

There'll be no services for anyone wanting test results, or even tests, if people don't oppose this and strike.."

They are killing the NHS in order to sell it off when it fails.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Ridiculous comment

so what exactly is your back up plan when they all walk away from this particular career as you suggest?

So you don't think that pay and conditions are linked in any way to the lack of NHS doctors in many specialities?

Why does it discriminate against women? impacts on single parents with hours

That's not discrimination

Yes it is. Refer to the legal case of Michelle Chew vs Avon and Somerset police.

How is that case (allowing flexible working) related to doctor's pay being less if they take time out for maternity?

But it's not solely against women, men can take time off too to do other things, perhaps even paternity leave. I can't think of other jobs where you get promotions/pay rises when you're absent, I don't see how it is discriminatory to require people to work to improve their careers.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Ridiculous comment

so what exactly is your back up plan when they all walk away from this particular career as you suggest?

So you don't think that pay and conditions are linked in any way to the lack of NHS doctors in many specialities?

Why does it discriminate against women? impacts on single parents with hours

That's not discrimination

Yes it is. Refer to the legal case of Michelle Chew vs Avon and Somerset police.

How is that case (allowing flexible working) related to doctor's pay being less if they take time out for maternity? explaint to me, why you follow the government line, when they manufactu_ed this problem why do you follow a politician's line, rather than those in the profession telling you otherwise

I'm not, I just think striking when you're responsible for the care of people is not on. "
how else can they stop a crap deal being imposed. Hunt and his faulty figures are the problem, plus his attitude to negotiation

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

Ridiculous comment

so what exactly is your back up plan when they all walk away from this particular career as you suggest?

So you don't think that pay and conditions are linked in any way to the lack of NHS doctors in many specialities?

Why does it discriminate against women? impacts on single parents with hours

That's not discrimination

Yes it is. Refer to the legal case of Michelle Chew vs Avon and Somerset police.

How is that case (allowing flexible working) related to doctor's pay being less if they take time out for maternity? explaint to me, why you follow the government line, when they manufactu_ed this problem why do you follow a politician's line, rather than those in the profession telling you otherwise

I'm not, I just think striking when you're responsible for the care of people is not on. "

i respect that that is your view but for too long the fact that the NHS and some other public sector workers have been viewed as too caring to take Industrial action to protect the conditions of service etc has been fully exploited ..

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By *asokittyWoman over a year ago

Nr Worksop

It's clearly all about the money. ...

This article is worth a read.

http://www.theguardian.com/healthcare-network/2015/oct/22/nhs-doctor-surgeon-junior-contract-quit-job-stress-family-children

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *rightonsteveMan over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

I think, if you're in extreme pain or in danger of death, or one of your kids are or your close family, then you might be grateful that you're treated by an alert doctor who hasn't been working for 18 hours than one who is.

I'd be grateful anyway. It seems like a non argument to me.

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By *asokittyWoman over a year ago

Nr Worksop

[Removed by poster at 25/04/16 20:29:13]

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Had my "URGENT" appointment to see a cadiologist cancelled for tomorrow (Tuesday)

Angina getting worse despite max dose of all medication.

Rescheduled for July.

Unfortunately someone has to take a stand against this draconian government,that seems to show no compassion to anyone, that isnt giving big business a profit they can sell.

I support them 100% in their strike.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Ridiculous comment

so what exactly is your back up plan when they all walk away from this particular career as you suggest?

So you don't think that pay and conditions are linked in any way to the lack of NHS doctors in many specialities?

Why does it discriminate against women? impacts on single parents with hours

That's not discrimination

Yes it is. Refer to the legal case of Michelle Chew vs Avon and Somerset police.

How is that case (allowing flexible working) related to doctor's pay being less if they take time out for maternity? explaint to me, why you follow the government line, when they manufactu_ed this problem why do you follow a politician's line, rather than those in the profession telling you otherwise

I'm not, I just think striking when you're responsible for the care of people is not on. how else can they stop a crap deal being imposed. Hunt and his faulty figures are the problem, plus his attitude to negotiation "

Exert leverage by solely inconveniencing the bureaucracy instead of punishing patients.

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By *rightonsteveMan over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

If it's purely about money, then I'd willing pay a huge amount to someone who has the skills, knowledge, experience and ability to save my life. It could be a junior doctor. It sure as hell won't be Jeremy Hunt.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

There are many problems with the deal, but virtually every doctor and health professional I speak with now has a pathological hat_ed of Jeremy Hunt because of his lies and contempt.

These are not militant people generally. Indeed, most doctors are naturally conservative (small c). 98% reluctantly support these strikes. What does this tell you?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *asokittyWoman over a year ago

Nr Worksop

Ridiculous comment

so what exactly is your back up plan when they all walk away from this particular career as you suggest?

So you don't think that pay and conditions are linked in any way to the lack of NHS doctors in many specialities?

Why does it discriminate against women? impacts on single parents with hours

That's not discrimination

Yes it is. Refer to the legal case of Michelle Chew vs Avon and Somerset police.

How is that case (allowing flexible working) related to doctor's pay being less if they take time out for maternity? explaint to me, why you follow the government line, when they manufactu_ed this problem why do you follow a politician's line, rather than those in the profession telling you otherwise

I'm not, I just think striking when you're responsible for the care of people is not on.

No one is being left without care as the senior doctors are doing the work for the day as they do when the JD's start their new rotation and no one has ever noticed a difference in service. Only addition is the non urgent ops being cancelled.

For too long the NHS has worked on good will. The amount of overtime doctors/nurses etc do without pay is ridiculous. If care workers worked to rule, that would bring the NHS to a grinding halt.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The terms offe_ed will effect different specialties differently. Some doctors will benefit financially, although their hours and terms will increase.

Others - in particular A&E and critical care, already the most difficult areas to recruit to, will see a substantial pay cut.

Why did Hunt absolutely, without discussion, reject proposals by the Royal Colleges and others to trial the new contract in a few areas before imposing it nationally? It seems very sensible proposal.

If the government succeeds in imposing this contract they have already indicated that other NHS professionals will be subject to similar contract "negotiations". Nurses, HCA's, AHP's, porters etc; - they're undoubtedly coming for you next."
the government are also being devisive, they are too sneaky to roll out contracts in one go. Try to get groups devided and arguing and slip controversial plans through

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It's clearly all about the money. ...

This article is worth a read.

http://www.theguardian.com/healthcare-network/2015/oct/22/nhs-doctor-surgeon-junior-contract-quit-job-stress-family-children"

DWP are offering £70-90k a year to doctors to work for them doing work capability assessments. A 9-5 office based job. However hard they try they cannot fill these posts. If JDs wanted more money they'd be biting the DWPs hand off to apply for those jobs.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *asokittyWoman over a year ago

Nr Worksop

"The terms offe_ed will effect different specialties differently. Some doctors will benefit financially, although their hours and terms will increase.

Others - in particular A&E and critical care, already the most difficult areas to recruit to, will see a substantial pay cut.

Why did Hunt absolutely, without discussion, reject proposals by the Royal Colleges and others to trial the new contract in a few areas before imposing it nationally? It seems very sensible proposal.

If the government succeeds in imposing this contract they have already indicated that other NHS professionals will be subject to similar contract "negotiations". Nurses, HCA's, AHP's, porters etc; - they're undoubtedly coming for you next. the government are also being devisive, they are too sneaky to roll out contracts in one go. Try to get groups devided and arguing and slip controversial plans through"

They've already come for nurses. Many times over.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Ridiculous comment

so what exactly is your back up plan when they all walk away from this particular career as you suggest?

So you don't think that pay and conditions are linked in any way to the lack of NHS doctors in many specialities?

Why does it discriminate against women? impacts on single parents with hours

That's not discrimination

Yes it is. Refer to the legal case of Michelle Chew vs Avon and Somerset police.

How is that case (allowing flexible working) related to doctor's pay being less if they take time out for maternity? explaint to me, why you follow the government line, when they manufactu_ed this problem why do you follow a politician's line, rather than those in the profession telling you otherwise

I'm not, I just think striking when you're responsible for the care of people is not on.

For too long the NHS has worked on good will. The amount of overtime doctors/nurses etc do without pay is ridiculous. If care workers worked to rule, that would bring the NHS to a grinding halt. "

The people who have waited weeks for procedures or consultancy appointments are being left without care. I'm not sure why non emergency means that the person ceases to matter to you?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *asokittyWoman over a year ago

Nr Worksop

"It's clearly all about the money. ...

This article is worth a read.

http://www.theguardian.com/healthcare-network/2015/oct/22/nhs-doctor-surgeon-junior-contract-quit-job-stress-family-children

They take on all kinds of health professionals. I was offe_ed an interview with an almost guaranteed job for 35k per year..I'd rather have shat in my hands and clapped than work for that bunch of scumbags.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *asokittyWoman over a year ago

Nr Worksop

Ridiculous comment

so what exactly is your back up plan when they all walk away from this particular career as you suggest?

So you don't think that pay and conditions are linked in any way to the lack of NHS doctors in many specialities?

Why does it discriminate against women? impacts on single parents with hours

That's not discrimination

Yes it is. Refer to the legal case of Michelle Chew vs Avon and Somerset police.

How is that case (allowing flexible working) related to doctor's pay being less if they take time out for maternity? explaint to me, why you follow the government line, when they manufactu_ed this problem why do you follow a politician's line, rather than those in the profession telling you otherwise

I'm not, I just think striking when you're responsible for the care of people is not on.

For too long the NHS has worked on good will. The amount of overtime doctors/nurses etc do without pay is ridiculous. If care workers worked to rule, that would bring the NHS to a grinding halt.

The people who have waited weeks for procedures or consultancy appointments are being left without care. I'm not sure why non emergency means that the person ceases to matter to you? "

Once again that's not what I'm saying. But you twist it for your own devices.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *edMan over a year ago

cambridgeshire

Blimey... Not sure I want to jump into this but does anyone know ALL the facts. Such as ..

1 how much they are paid now and what hours

2 how much they are paid after and what hours after the contract changes

3 What are the facts behind the government's assertion that there has been long and fruitless negotiations before they felt they had to change the contracts. What offers and counter offers were made. If any?

If we don't know these things we are making a huge mistake throwing I'll informed opinions about out there.

I don't know the answers tbh, but I'd like to.

One observation. The JDs on the picket lines need to look at their image carefully. Striking and looking like youre just having a bit of a laugh on something so serious don't sit together well.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Ridiculous comment

so what exactly is your back up plan when they all walk away from this particular career as you suggest?

So you don't think that pay and conditions are linked in any way to the lack of NHS doctors in many specialities?

Why does it discriminate against women? impacts on single parents with hours

That's not discrimination

Yes it is. Refer to the legal case of Michelle Chew vs Avon and Somerset police.

How is that case (allowing flexible working) related to doctor's pay being less if they take time out for maternity? explaint to me, why you follow the government line, when they manufactu_ed this problem why do you follow a politician's line, rather than those in the profession telling you otherwise

I'm not, I just think striking when you're responsible for the care of people is not on.

For too long the NHS has worked on good will. The amount of overtime doctors/nurses etc do without pay is ridiculous. If care workers worked to rule, that would bring the NHS to a grinding halt.

The people who have waited weeks for procedures or consultancy appointments are being left without care. I'm not sure why non emergency means that the person ceases to matter to you?

Once again that's not what I'm saying. But you twist it for your own devices. "

You said no one is left without care and "only" non emergencies are cancelled. Those are cancer diagnoses, pacemaker fittings, biopsies. All are extremely important to the patient who is being turned away for a political point to be made.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *asokittyWoman over a year ago

Nr Worksop

Ridiculous comment

so what exactly is your back up plan when they all walk away from this particular career as you suggest?

So you don't think that pay and conditions are linked in any way to the lack of NHS doctors in many specialities?

Why does it discriminate against women? impacts on single parents with hours

That's not discrimination

Yes it is. Refer to the legal case of Michelle Chew vs Avon and Somerset police.

How is that case (allowing flexible working) related to doctor's pay being less if they take time out for maternity? explaint to me, why you follow the government line, when they manufactu_ed this problem why do you follow a politician's line, rather than those in the profession telling you otherwise

I'm not, I just think striking when you're responsible for the care of people is not on.

For too long the NHS has worked on good will. The amount of overtime doctors/nurses etc do without pay is ridiculous. If care workers worked to rule, that would bring the NHS to a grinding halt.

The people who have waited weeks for procedures or consultancy appointments are being left without care. I'm not sure why non emergency means that the person ceases to matter to you?

Once again that's not what I'm saying. But you twist it for your own devices.

Sweetheart, like I said I have been in their position several times so I am not dismissing them.

Go chew on someone else's bone eh.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Ridiculous comment

so what exactly is your back up plan when they all walk away from this particular career as you suggest?

So you don't think that pay and conditions are linked in any way to the lack of NHS doctors in many specialities?

Why does it discriminate against women? impacts on single parents with hours

That's not discrimination

Yes it is. Refer to the legal case of Michelle Chew vs Avon and Somerset police.

How is that case (allowing flexible working) related to doctor's pay being less if they take time out for maternity? explaint to me, why you follow the government line, when they manufactu_ed this problem why do you follow a politician's line, rather than those in the profession telling you otherwise

I'm not, I just think striking when you're responsible for the care of people is not on.

For too long the NHS has worked on good will. The amount of overtime doctors/nurses etc do without pay is ridiculous. If care workers worked to rule, that would bring the NHS to a grinding halt.

The people who have waited weeks for procedures or consultancy appointments are being left without care. I'm not sure why non emergency means that the person ceases to matter to you?

Once again that's not what I'm saying. But you twist it for your own devices.

Sweetheart, like I said I have been in their position several times so I am not dismissing them.

Go chew on someone else's bone eh. "

No you're just making bogus claims that ignore the fact that they are, in fact, left without care.

And don't be silly, I'm not your sweetheart.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Ridiculous comment

so what exactly is your back up plan when they all walk away from this particular career as you suggest?

So you don't think that pay and conditions are linked in any way to the lack of NHS doctors in many specialities?

Why does it discriminate against women? impacts on single parents with hours

That's not discrimination

Yes it is. Refer to the legal case of Michelle Chew vs Avon and Somerset police.

How is that case (allowing flexible working) related to doctor's pay being less if they take time out for maternity? explaint to me, why you follow the government line, when they manufactu_ed this problem why do you follow a politician's line, rather than those in the profession telling you otherwise

I'm not, I just think striking when you're responsible for the care of people is not on.

For too long the NHS has worked on good will. The amount of overtime doctors/nurses etc do without pay is ridiculous. If care workers worked to rule, that would bring the NHS to a grinding halt.

The people who have waited weeks for procedures or consultancy appointments are being left without care. I'm not sure why non emergency means that the person ceases to matter to you?

Once again that's not what I'm saying. But you twist it for your own devices.

Do you realise how many appointments and operations are cancelled every week due to lack of staff or underfunding? Or how many will be cancelled in the future if this government succeeds in its aims? It's considerably more than the number from each of these strikes. Every day will be like a strike day.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Ridiculous comment

so what exactly is your back up plan when they all walk away from this particular career as you suggest?

So you don't think that pay and conditions are linked in any way to the lack of NHS doctors in many specialities?

Why does it discriminate against women? impacts on single parents with hours

That's not discrimination

Yes it is. Refer to the legal case of Michelle Chew vs Avon and Somerset police.

How is that case (allowing flexible working) related to doctor's pay being less if they take time out for maternity? explaint to me, why you follow the government line, when they manufactu_ed this problem why do you follow a politician's line, rather than those in the profession telling you otherwise

I'm not, I just think striking when you're responsible for the care of people is not on.

For too long the NHS has worked on good will. The amount of overtime doctors/nurses etc do without pay is ridiculous. If care workers worked to rule, that would bring the NHS to a grinding halt.

The people who have waited weeks for procedures or consultancy appointments are being left without care. I'm not sure why non emergency means that the person ceases to matter to you?

Once again that's not what I'm saying. But you twist it for your own devices.

Again, I don't see why patients in need are being punished to make a point to the government.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *asokittyWoman over a year ago

Nr Worksop

Ridiculous comment

so what exactly is your back up plan when they all walk away from this particular career as you suggest?

So you don't think that pay and conditions are linked in any way to the lack of NHS doctors in many specialities?

Why does it discriminate against women? impacts on single parents with hours

That's not discrimination

Yes it is. Refer to the legal case of Michelle Chew vs Avon and Somerset police.

How is that case (allowing flexible working) related to doctor's pay being less if they take time out for maternity? explaint to me, why you follow the government line, when they manufactu_ed this problem why do you follow a politician's line, rather than those in the profession telling you otherwise

I'm not, I just think striking when you're responsible for the care of people is not on.

For too long the NHS has worked on good will. The amount of overtime doctors/nurses etc do without pay is ridiculous. If care workers worked to rule, that would bring the NHS to a grinding halt.

The people who have waited weeks for procedures or consultancy appointments are being left without care. I'm not sure why non emergency means that the person ceases to matter to you?

Once again that's not what I'm saying. But you twist it for your own devices.

Again, I don't see why patients in need are being punished to make a point to the government."

It's not punishment. What are you not grasping. They are cancelled because there is not enough staff. Nothing to do with making a point or whatever rubbish you are spouting.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Ridiculous comment

so what exactly is your back up plan when they all walk away from this particular career as you suggest?

So you don't think that pay and conditions are linked in any way to the lack of NHS doctors in many specialities?

Why does it discriminate against women? impacts on single parents with hours

That's not discrimination

Yes it is. Refer to the legal case of Michelle Chew vs Avon and Somerset police.

How is that case (allowing flexible working) related to doctor's pay being less if they take time out for maternity? explaint to me, why you follow the government line, when they manufactu_ed this problem why do you follow a politician's line, rather than those in the profession telling you otherwise

I'm not, I just think striking when you're responsible for the care of people is not on.

For too long the NHS has worked on good will. The amount of overtime doctors/nurses etc do without pay is ridiculous. If care workers worked to rule, that would bring the NHS to a grinding halt.

The people who have waited weeks for procedures or consultancy appointments are being left without care. I'm not sure why non emergency means that the person ceases to matter to you?

Once again that's not what I'm saying. But you twist it for your own devices.

Again, I don't see why patients in need are being punished to make a point to the government.

It's not punishment. What are you not grasping. They are cancelled because there is not enough staff. Nothing to do with making a point or whatever rubbish you are spouting. "

How is a strike not a punishment? Its removal of service, at the expense of a patient's quality of life. The appointments and procedures tomorrow are cancelled due to the strike. This strike is about making a political point. Perhaps if you don't understand this, then you may be out of your depth. You're seemingly lacking in compassion, anyway.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It's clearly all about the money. ...

This article is worth a read.

http://www.theguardian.com/healthcare-network/2015/oct/22/nhs-doctor-surgeon-junior-contract-quit-job-stress-family-children

I would never ever work for them dirty bastards at the dwp., being party to denying benefits to the disabled, basex on dodgy assessments.