FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > With friends like Obama who needs enemies

With friends like Obama who needs enemies

By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Absolutely incredible language from the POTUS, supposedly our best friend internationally! The threat to the British people is simply disgraceful, surely it is our choice whether we stay members of the EU (an organisation the US would never join on the terms offered) without being the subject of threats from the US if we exercise our right to leave.

Nauseating turn of events frankly.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Victoria Wood is dead

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

"Absolutely incredible language from the POTUS, supposedly our best friend internationally! The threat to the British people is simply disgraceful, surely it is our choice whether we stay members of the EU (an organisation the US would never join on the terms offered) without being the subject of threats from the US if we exercise our right to leave.

Nauseating turn of events frankly."

carrots..?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The UK is excersizing it's right to leave the EU, but the US is making the UK the "subject of threats" by voicing the consequences of that decision?

Consider that the US can exercise it's rights with regards to the UK just as freely as the UK can exercise it's rights with regards to the EU.

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By *ngel n tedCouple over a year ago

maidstone

Yea, like mcdonalds and disney won't sell us their stuff if we leave

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

Earth shattering news that elected leaders have a view on other countries future plans..

hold the front page..

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

I suppose it's tit for tat against the ludicrous call for Trump to be banned from entering the UK, hey ho.

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By *oobsandballsMan over a year ago

st andrews

So if the U.S. can't warn us about leaving the EU then we can't warn them about Trump? Is that how it works?

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By *oobsandballsMan over a year ago

st andrews

"I suppose it's tit for tat against the ludicrous call for Trump to be banned from entering the UK, hey ho."

Or Obama thinks it's just a bad idea and has said so, as many others have. We all think Trump's a nutter, and say so. Not sure why this is a drama.

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By *ervent_fervourMan over a year ago

Halifax

Nauseating turn of events frankly."

Wouldn't you want someone(or: your 'friend') to tell you what would happen if you were about to get hit by a train(in his opinion)?

Everyone's free to disagree with what he said. He was just being straight when asked the question.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Strangely it is about democracy, not threatening a so called friend with punitive measures if we don't do as we are told.

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By *ervent_fervourMan over a year ago

Halifax

"I suppose it's tit for tat against the ludicrous call for Trump to be banned from entering the UK, hey ho."

Well. SOme would argue he's said some very nasty things about Mexicans, incites violence at his rallies, threatens violence on the streets(in so many words)if he doesn't get the nomination before the wotsit, Republican conference thingy, and smears all Muslims(while knowing that it must have a knock on effect against any Muslims already resident in the US. Ditto for Mexicans).

What was your view on Abu Hamza(if you thought he used hate speech and was provactiveand therefore needed deporting then you have to apply the same to Trump).

I think that's enough to deny him entry. Even if it was never going to happen and was done merely to make a point.

PLenty of MPs on both sides agreed with the idea also.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Perhaps I missed it but I don't recall 500,000 strong petition signed by the left to ban Abu Hamza?

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By *ervent_fervourMan over a year ago

Halifax

1. What punitive measures did Obama propose?

2. Why was it ridiculous to deny Trump entry?

3. Why was the Trump petition any less worthy than the Hamza one(if the Hamza one was legitimate in your eyes because of the huge number of signatures involved, I'm assuming)?

I think number 1 is the pertinent one though in relation to your orig post.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

That we would be at the back of the queue for a trade deal with the US, an entirely arbitrary and probably inaccurate position to take given that we are the 5th biggest economy on the planet.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Whether we like Trump or not he has mass public support from the US electorate and may end up as the democratically elected POTUS.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

I may have missed it but I am not aware of any significant petition against Abu Hamza?

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By *oobsandballsMan over a year ago

st andrews

"Whether we like Trump or not he has mass public support from the US electorate and may end up as the democratically elected POTUS."

And that doesn't worry you but Obama saying he thinks us leaving the EU is bad does?

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By *oobsandballsMan over a year ago

st andrews

Also, if you're replying to specific posts use 'reply and quote' so we know who you're talking to

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Obama threatening us with sanctions unless we comply with his will worries me greatly.

Trump is a buffoon in the fine traditions of US populism, not a worry really.

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By *radleyandRavenCouple over a year ago

Herts

I'm glad I'm not the only one who saw it as a threat...

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By *oobsandballsMan over a year ago

st andrews

Ok, you don't like Obama. We get it. I'll leave you to it

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Don't like being threatened regardless of who it is by.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

How much money would we save it we didn't get drawn into conflicts by the USA ? .

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

"Obama threatening us with sanctions unless we comply with his will worries me greatly.

Trump is a buffoon in the fine traditions of US populism, not a worry really."

'threaten'..?

and what sanctions btw..

even Farage and Boris missed those..

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Obama threatening us with sanctions unless we comply with his will worries me greatly.

Trump is a buffoon in the fine traditions of US populism, not a worry really."

Again, why can't the US act towards the UK as it sees fit? Why are US actions towards the UK seen as threats but UK actions towards the EU are just exercised rights?

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

The sanction of being placed at the back of the queue to broker a trade deal with?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

When I joined this site, I never imagined I'd see one of the greatest goalkeepers discussing politics on here

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Obama threatening us with sanctions unless we comply with his will worries me greatly.

Trump is a buffoon in the fine traditions of US populism, not a worry really.

Again, why can't the US act towards the UK as it sees fit? Why are US actions towards the UK seen as threats but UK actions towards the EU are just exercised rights? "

Cos you're meant to be our FRIEND

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By *an_WoodMan over a year ago

Stafford

Pram and rattle separated by great aniexty caused by free speech

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Monty Python understood this point!

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

It is our free speech which is at risk when the leader of the free world seeks to threaten the democratic process in the UK.

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By *an_WoodMan over a year ago

Stafford

Thank you

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Obama threatening us with sanctions unless we comply with his will worries me greatly.

Trump is a buffoon in the fine traditions of US populism, not a worry really.

Again, why can't the US act towards the UK as it sees fit? Why are US actions towards the UK seen as threats but UK actions towards the EU are just exercised rights?

Cos you're meant to be our FRIEND

I'm giving my BFF charm back.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

"The sanction of being placed at the back of the queue to broker a trade deal with?"

but surely in post exit UK there will be no such problems as we will have none EU countries knocking on the door to trade with us..?

end of the day if we have the right goods at the right prices and hit the right markets then no matter what is said by a head of state then commerce will over ride..

on the other hand what he has said according to many of the leave camp is of no consequence as he's out of office in Nov so whats the worry..

he has no influence according to Brexit but then again if thats the case why the hoo har..?

puzzling it is..

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

"It is our free speech which is at risk when the leader of the free world seeks to threaten the democratic process in the UK."

tell Boris and Farage..

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Stubbed my toe earlier. Thanks Obama

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By *an_WoodMan over a year ago

Stafford

Noone said Putin threatened us when he voiced support for Scottish independence. Shock horror political speech made. Get a grip and keep calm man

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It is our free speech which is at risk when the leader of the free world seeks to threaten the democratic process in the UK."

So our free speech is protected by denying the right of free speech.

Gotcha!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

" but surely in post exit UK there will be no such problems as we will have none EU countries knocking on the door to trade with us..?

I'm completely clueless about this topic, could you tell me why they wouldn't want to trade with us?

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By *isscheekychopsWoman over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

" but surely in post exit UK there will be no such problems as we will have none EU countries knocking on the door to trade with us..?

I'm completely clueless about this topic, could you tell me why they wouldn't want to trade with us?"

I'm glad I'm not the only one that is clueless

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I'm glad I'm not the only one that is clueless

I thought coming on a swinger's site, my total lack of political knowledge wouldn't be uncovered :s

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

" but surely in post exit UK there will be no such problems as we will have none EU countries knocking on the door to trade with us..?

I'm completely clueless about this topic, could you tell me why they wouldn't want to trade with us?"

i am paraphrasing what has been said by some of the leave campaign, that our future will be ok in fact they 'know' (not sure how) that we will be free of the bureaucratic shackles that the EU place on us..

it does make sense that if the product is right etc then we will be able to but there will be trade deals etc to negotiate and no one can say just how long that will take or what will be the outcomes for us as UK plc..

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

@surreysensual thank you!

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

To be clear; it is my view that if we vote to leave the EU, the US would be more than happy to negotiate a trade deal with us, as the corporate giants in the states, Microsoft, Google, Amazon, Pfizer, Johnson and Johnson, Ford, General Motors, Mars, Kellogs, Heinz etc etc would simply demand of their government access to the UK market (5th biggest on the planet).

Therefore it is entirely disengenuos of Obama to threaten us that if we vote Leave we will go to the back of the queue for a trade deal - that constitutes a clear attempt to manipulate the democratic process in the UK by the US - simply unacceptable.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"To be clear; it is my view that if we vote to leave the EU, the US would be more than happy to negotiate a trade deal with us, as the corporate giants in the states, Microsoft, Google, Amazon, Pfizer, Johnson and Johnson, Ford, General Motors, Mars, Kellogs, Heinz etc etc would simply demand of their government access to the UK market (5th biggest on the planet).

Completely acceptable. The US can do whatever it wants with regards to trade with the UK (within international trade laws, of course).

If the UK leaves the EU it becomes less important to the US than the EU. Don't like it? Then either get more trading power or a bigger army.

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By *ensualtouch15Man over a year ago

ashby de la zouch

Nauseating turn of events frankly."

Maybe he thinks he is right ?

Do you have data to prove his opinion is wrong

It is perfectly reasonabe as it is the unknown , to reason leaving Europe will be very painful

I really don't know the answer and I'm perfectly happy with anyone giving a view point in order to help make a reasoned hopefully good choice

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By *isscheekychopsWoman over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

I'm glad I'm not the only one that is clueless

I thought coming on a swinger's site, my total lack of political knowledge wouldn't be uncovered :s"

Me too

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Completely acceptable. The US can do whatever it wants with regards to trade with the UK (within international trade laws, of course).

If the UK leaves the EU it becomes less important to the US than the EU. Don't like it? Then either get more trading power or a bigger army."

The U.K. Will continue to be the US only realistic ally in pursuit of its foreign policy and as its strong partner in NATO as the rest of the EU countries are largely unprepared to exercise force and deploy their militaries in the that way we are. Consequentially it is not in the best interests of the US to artificially damage the UK economy.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Completely acceptable. The US can do whatever it wants with regards to trade with the UK (within international trade laws, of course).

If the UK leaves the EU it becomes less important to the US than the EU. Don't like it? Then either get more trading power or a bigger army.

You're dreaming if you think the UK military really matters much to the US. The military importance of the UK for the US is a moral one - the support of the UK helps the US justify its often immoral and legally questionable military behavior. If the UK leaves the EU then even that role of the UK military becomes largely dimished as it will no longer be a force within the EU.

Don't believe me? Come back with hard numbers. How much hard cash does the UK put into its military and how much does the US? How about as a percentage of GDP? How about we compare the number of US troops in action compared to the number of UK troops?

The position and usefulness of the UK to the US is heavily (though not solely) dependant on its position within Europe. If you think otherwise then Obama was trying to enlighten you. But you're just sticking your head in the sand.

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By *sianmale89Man over a year ago

Stockport

Nauseating turn of events frankly."
it's pretty obvious OP that since this whole brexit thing began there have been various countries making threats or suggestions as to what would happen to the uk relationship wise if they leave the EU. America is just trying to flex their muscles with this statement as a warning/intimidation tactic. I personally have never voted or ever will bother voting at that but it seems the outcome can probably be a close cut outcome be if either stay in or exit.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Nauseating turn of events frankly."

Of course it's our choice. I'm not aware he threatened anyone about anything anyway - just expressed the wholly unsurprising view that actually the UK isn't that significant a player on the world stage. If you want to leave the EU and have trade deals with major world economies, aren't the views of the heads of state of those major world economies worth listening to?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Obama sees us as the gateway to the EU. The CIA and its 'best friend' Mossad both need us in there as we are their main conduit for access.

If we come out of the EU they'll probably 'pick on' Germany, which - due to obvious reasons - doesn't overly criticise Isreal and is also a superpower in itself.

I don't think Obama has done himself or Cameron any favours in saying what he did.

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By *isscheekychopsWoman over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

Completely acceptable. The US can do whatever it wants with regards to trade with the UK (within international trade laws, of course).

If the UK leaves the EU it becomes less important to the US than the EU. Don't like it? Then either get more trading power or a bigger army.

As an ex US military wife I can say that far more money goes into the US military than the UK military...we were given literally anything we wanted while stationed over seas

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By *rightonsteveMan over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

Someone pointed out that he'd said 'queue' instead of 'line' as he normally would have, being an American, which made the person suggest his speech had had help in being written from Number 10.

I still like him. I think he's been a good president. His inaugural speech made the hairs on my arms stand up.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Completely acceptable. The US can do whatever it wants with regards to trade with the UK (within international trade laws, of course).

If the UK leaves the EU it becomes less important to the US than the EU. Don't like it? Then either get more trading power or a bigger army.

Don't disagree. The U.K. Provides moral justification for US foreign policy when we deploy the UK military in support of US. And at last we are getting to the real reason the US wants the UK to stay within the EU. However even outside of the EU ( which as an economic zone is stagnant at best) as the 5th biggest economy on the planet and at the centre of the Commonwealth (in which lives a third of the worlds population) we will still provide the US with its only credible supporter.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Obama threatening us with sanctions unless we comply with his will worries me greatly.

Trump is a buffoon in the fine traditions of US populism, not a worry really."

Obama did NOT threaten the UK with sanctions. He said that the US would not be letting the UK jump the queue in trade negotiations.

What he said is much more realistic than anthing from BoJo, Gove, et al.

On the subject of Boris, isn't his description of Obama's intervention in the EU debate as hypocritical, hypocritical in itself?

When Obama urged Scots to vote NO in the independence referendum, what did Boris say? Nothing.

Because Obama just happened to agree with his stance, Boris did not speak out. So, is Obama a hypocrite for interfering in UK politics or not, Boris? Or is it you, for picking and chosing which subjects he's a hypocrite about?

Boris, you are the hypocrite.

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By *imiUKMan over a year ago

Hereford

Theres nothing like the EU debate to drag the total fucktards out of the woodwork.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

its a bit like one person asking for a pay rise or raising an issue of concern at work, noted now back to work..

collectively there is a different emphasis and it's the same if we are on our own as opposed to being part of a bigger trading block..

why would we be put ahead of our collective bargaining much bigger neighbours when doing trade deals post leave..?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Completely acceptable. The US can do whatever it wants with regards to trade with the UK (within international trade laws, of course).

If the UK leaves the EU it becomes less important to the US than the EU. Don't like it? Then either get more trading power or a bigger army.

You keep stating that the UK is the 5th largest economy as if that really matters. If the state of California were it's own country then it would have a larger economy than the UK. The size of economies after the big 3 is drastically smaller.

What Obama is saying is if the UK leaves the EU then it will have to go to the back of the line when it comes to trade deals - behind the EU and it's trading block, behind China, behind the countries whose trading policies matter more to the US. He was saying not to expect anything from any perceived "special relationship."

You took that as a threat instead of a clear statement of facts.

The fact is that the US will be able to pull it's weight with the UK even more if it leaves the EU than it does currently. The UK won't have much push-back power because it's trading power will be much less than it currently is within the EU.

It's fact. If you don't like it, then consider it when you vote in the referendum. If you still want to vote to leave then you've decided that other issues outweigh this one. That's fine, but to shrug it off as "threats" is misleading.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Victoria Wood is dead"

And Prince

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"its a bit like one person asking for a pay rise or raising an issue of concern at work, noted now back to work..

collectively there is a different emphasis and it's the same if we are on our own as opposed to being part of a bigger trading block..

why would we be put ahead of our collective bargaining much bigger neighbours when doing trade deals post leave..? "

The US is more than capable of negotiating more than one trade deal at a time. Obama was lying through his teeth when he said the UK would go to the back of the queue to negotiate a trade deal with. Ultimately as far as the US is concerned UK membership of the EU is nothing to do with trade and everything to do with US foreign policy and our support of it.

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By *enard ArgenteMan over a year ago

London and France

He just stated the facts...

The US wants to enhance global interests;

UK isolating itself makes us insignificant.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"He just stated the facts...

The US wants to enhance global interests;

UK isolating itself makes us insignificant.

Who is talking about isolation? Leaving the moribund EU is all about the UK taking a world view once again. We have a thousand years history behind us a trading with the rest of the world, it is only since 1971 when we joined the then EEC that our isolation from the rest of the planet began. Tying ourselves to a failing political institution in Europe is isolation.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Trade deals, unions, presidents and economics!.

You all want to know what's around the corner!.

You really should read more scientific journals, the biggest changes you'll see in the next 20 years will NOT come from anything from politics or free trade or unions!. The coming change will be from low carbon emissions, get on the boat now or be lost in 10 years.

No free trade or union will save you from it

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Depending on the source the EU or the USA are either the biggest or second biggest economy in the world. In reality they are near enough equal whilst our economy is approximately a fifth of their size. The EU economy would be reduced by approximately 20% by us leaving. Even with this reduction the EU economy will still be the second largest world economy. It therefore makes far more sense for the USA to negotiate with the EU rather than us.

I would be grateful if you could explain why you think we the British should jump to the head of the trade negotiations queue?

I also doubt that we would stop all the US companies you mention from trading with us whilst we negotiated a trade deal with the US.

Your charge that Obama is being disengenuos is in fact you being so.

I think it's of vital importance that we the electorate have as much information as possible so that we can make an informed choice.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

"its a bit like one person asking for a pay rise or raising an issue of concern at work, noted now back to work..

collectively there is a different emphasis and it's the same if we are on our own as opposed to being part of a bigger trading block..

why would we be put ahead of our collective bargaining much bigger neighbours when doing trade deals post leave..?

you can't have it both ways, on one hand what he says will be ignored by the US commercial giants and their interests and now its not about what he said about 'back of the queue' its about foreign policy..?

if he will be ignored and therefore his words were of no consequence, then why has what he said given you the ache..?

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

"He just stated the facts...

The US wants to enhance global interests;

UK isolating itself makes us insignificant.

most of our trading during that time was done with the then British military representative's sat next to whomever was 'negotiating' and often with people who's countries we had colonised..

not sure its a comparison..

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By *imiUKMan over a year ago

Hereford

"Victoria Wood is dead

And Prince "

There's now a very good Bowie doccumentary on Netflix...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Trade deals, unions, presidents and economics!.

You all want to know what's around the corner!.

No free trade or union will save you from it"

Yes that's quite likely and must be addressed but in doing so we must not lose sight of the fact that too many of the world's population live in poverty and/or lack human rights.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Depending on the source the EU or the USA are either the biggest or second biggest economy in the world. In reality they are near enough equal whilst our economy is approximately a fifth of their size. The EU economy would be reduced by approximately 20% by us leaving. Even with this preduction the EU economy will still be the second largest world economy. It therefore makes far more sense for the USA to negotiate with the EU rather than us.

I would be grateful if you could explain why you think we the British should jump to the head of the trade negotiations queue?

I also doubt that we would stop all the US companies you mention from trading with us whilst we negotiated a trade deal with the US.

Your charge that Obama is being disengenuos is in fact you being so.

I think it's of vital importance that we the electorate have as much information as possible so that we can make an informed choice.

I believe I have clearly answered points already within this thread.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"its a bit like one person asking for a pay rise or raising an issue of concern at work, noted now back to work..

collectively there is a different emphasis and it's the same if we are on our own as opposed to being part of a bigger trading block..

why would we be put ahead of our collective bargaining much bigger neighbours when doing trade deals post leave..?

if he will be ignored and therefore his words were of no consequence, then why has what he said given you the ache..?"

My 'ache' is that Obama has deliberately threatened/mislead the UK electorate in an attempt to influence the outcome of the EU referendum.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Why do you persist in calling a statement of fact a threat - In the face of all evidence presented on this thread? You weaken your own position when you stick with a a poor argument.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I just read my daughter a scary bedtime story and before going to sleep, she asked me to check the wardrobe for Obamas.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

"its a bit like one person asking for a pay rise or raising an issue of concern at work, noted now back to work..

collectively there is a different emphasis and it's the same if we are on our own as opposed to being part of a bigger trading block..

why would we be put ahead of our collective bargaining much bigger neighbours when doing trade deals post leave..?

if he will be ignored and therefore his words were of no consequence, then why has what he said given you the ache..?

My 'ache' is that Obama has deliberately threatened/mislead the UK electorate in an attempt to influence the outcome of the EU referendum."

threatened or misled..?

he has given an opinion and funnily enough as the President of the US that will carry some credence, maybe it explains Boris's less than called for remarks..

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Why do you persist in calling a statement of fact a threat - In the face of all evidence presented on this thread? You weaken your own position when you stick with a a poor argument. "

Fact? That we will go to the back of the queue? Where is the evidence? The US needs UK support of its foreign policy and will not sacrifice the UK economy and risk damaging its only credible ally. The US sells us Trident for around £129billion pounds plus maintenance ad owns and many other very expensive military gizmos. UK and US pharmaceutical giants collobarate to develop new medicines worth billions of dollars each year. The U.K. Scientific community collaborates extensively with US counterparts to further give US government and companies a competitive edge, and yet we will go to the back of the queue should we vote to leave the EU - bull poop if you know what I mean!

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I just read my daughter a scary bedtime story and before going to sleep, she asked me to check the wardrobe for Obamas."

Project fear doesn't hide in the wardrobe, it's right in your face!

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By *atietvsheffTV/TS over a year ago

Sheffield

I was probably going to be a "stay in" but I take unbridgeable at Obama making veiled threats about trade and back of the Q for deals, so much for a "special relationship" , looks a pretty shallow relationship time if we are dumped behind some bankrupt europhiles who are in a recession and serious major financial difficulties when our economy is in growth and heading for a surplus which is more than the US are. I wonder how Obama would feel if we decided our "special relationship" went to the wall anyway and it meant his nuclear weapons were not welcome on our soil and we were no longer the 53rd state or a landing zone for his armed forces to wage war with who ever he wants at arms length from his home soil, also if we sent all the US banks back across the water so they were not trading in GMT meaning they were no longer global banks in response to going tongue back of the trade deal Q, Also maybe the US should spend there time sorting out human rights in their own country and stop persecuting LGBT. I don't like someone coming to my home to threaten me, it makes me want to do totally the opposite

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By *horehouseCouple over a year ago

dissatisfied

"I just read my daughter a scary bedtime story and before going to sleep, she asked me to check the wardrobe for Obamas.

Project fear doesn't hide in the wardrobe, it's right in your face!"
are you people really thick or is it you just don't believe the truth when you are told it by a world leader ..Obama's words of wisdom for the UK were not a threat he was mearly explaining the way US/UK relations would progress if the UK left the umbrella of the EU ..were putins words of wisdom a threat as well? ....

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Why do you persist in calling a statement of fact a threat - In the face of all evidence presented on this thread? You weaken your own position when you stick with a a poor argument.

As I said, you just stick your head in the sand. I addressed your points on the military earlier. UK support will matter less to the US if it leaves the EU. As for research collaboration - particularly pharmaceutical - give me numbers. To my knowledge the US puts far more money into such research. And that collaboration is unlikely to change because of this referendum.

You know what will change? Trade and military policy. Fact. He said it and the leave campaign doesn't like it because it erodes their financial argument to leave the EU.

As I said, what Obama said about the UK going to the back of the line was fact. And I don't believe he meant it in a simplistic temporal sense. He also meant that the interests of the UK will be less important to the US. That, too, is fact, not threat.

The leave campaign is going to have to admit that trade will be harder for the UK if it leaves the EU. There may be other reasons to leave - like the sovereignty argument - but that is different than what the leave campaigners have been arguing so far.

Your other points gave been addressed above which is why I find your persistent use of the "threat" argument unsatisfactory.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Why do you persist in calling a statement of fact a threat - In the face of all evidence presented on this thread? You weaken your own position when you stick with a a poor argument.

You know what will change? Trade and military policy. Fact. He said it and the leave campaign doesn't like it because it erodes their financial argument to leave the EU.

Your other points gave been addressed above which is why I find your persistent use of the "threat" argument unsatisfactory. "

You are yet to present a single fact beyond the persistent threat inherent in Obamas words. You can lead a horse to water...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Why do you persist in calling a statement of fact a threat - In the face of all evidence presented on this thread? You weaken your own position when you stick with a a poor argument.

You know what will change? Trade and military policy. Fact. He said it and the leave campaign doesn't like it because it erodes their financial argument to leave the EU.

Your other points gave been addressed above which is why I find your persistent use of the "threat" argument unsatisfactory.

You are yet to present a single fact beyond the persistent threat inherent in Obamas words. You can lead a horse to water..."

Head ... Sand.

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By *ordweaver2018Man over a year ago

Carlisle

Nauseating turn of events frankly."

So the UK can do what it chooses by it America can't!? They simply said they would not trade in the same way I believe. Which if we are a small country with very little economic exports compared to larger countries makes perfect sense.

It's capitalism.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I just read my daughter a scary bedtime story and before going to sleep, she asked me to check the wardrobe for Obamas.

Project fear doesn't hide in the wardrobe, it's right in your face!are you people really thick or is it you just don't believe the truth when you are told it by a world leader ..Obama's words of wisdom for the UK were not a threat he was mearly explaining the way US/UK relations would progress if the UK left the umbrella of the EU ..were putins words of wisdom a threat as well? ...."

there are none so blind as those who will not see.

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By *oo hotCouple over a year ago

North West

"Why do you persist in calling a statement of fact a threat - In the face of all evidence presented on this thread? You weaken your own position when you stick with a a poor argument.

Do you know the difference between trading with another country and negotiating a trade deal? You don't appear to have a grasp of what is involved in negotiating trade deals because their priority revolves around ultimate benefit.

Put another way, if you had two jobs in front of you and one was going to pay three times what the other pays which would you do first? Also would you jeopardise the big deal by doing work on the small deal that may dilute the eventual outcome of the big deal?

No threats there, no blackmail - just common sense that dictates you set priorities right as an individual, as a family and indeed as a country.

Finally, for what it is worth - President Obama simply outlined what is US state policy and that is highly unlikely to change if/when Hilary gets in. Any policy of any country is going to be underpinned by common sense decisions that will prove most beneficial.

By the way, unless there is a sudden centralising of Republican policy or an extraordinary increase in the birth rate of white Americans we are unlikely to see another Republican President for a generation - or more.

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By *enard ArgenteMan over a year ago

London and France

"Why do you persist in calling a statement of fact a threat - In the face of all evidence presented on this thread? You weaken your own position when you stick with a a poor argument.

Having worked until recently in the UK: US/UK and UK/EU scientific and military research and development areas; I can state without any doubt that whilst the UK has significant interests in collaborating with the US; the US has huge interests in Europe and in particular with France; and US/ French collaboration is outstripping US /UK levels already.

UK aerospace and defence industry is wholly reliant on collaboration with the EU ( particularly France).

Outside the EU, the UK defence industry will dissapear ( bearing in mind that the majority of "UK" defence industry is actually French/German/US owned anyway.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Why do you persist in calling a statement of fact a threat - In the face of all evidence presented on this thread? You weaken your own position when you stick with a a poor argument.

No threats there, no blackmail - just common sense that dictates you set priorities right as an individual, as a family and indeed as a country.

US foreign policy is defined by hard nosed pragmatism. They will not allow the UK to be damaged by a refusal to negotiate a trade deal. The EU is in terminal decline, a shrinking economy, migrant crisis, eurozone in melt down and a rising dissatisfaction with the EU from within the peoples of Europe. The U.K. Is not perfect but the US know us to be a reliable ally more so than the French or the Germans.

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By *ittie4UCouple over a year ago

Watford

Nauseating turn of events frankly."

That's the Brexiteers Taliban for you. Brexit supporters can say what they want, be as obnoxious as they want, twist the truth, verge on racism....that's all fine. But it's as far as free speech goes.

That someone who doesn't agree with them has the audacity to state an opinion or a point of view ....you can almost hear their knickers twisting across the land.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Most yanks hate him for his lack of bollocks against Isis roll on the trump days ahead

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Why do you persist in calling a statement of fact a threat - In the face of all evidence presented on this thread? You weaken your own position when you stick with a a poor argument.

UK aerospace and defence industry is wholly reliant on collaboration with the EU ( particularly France).

Outside the EU, the UK defence industry will dissapear ( bearing in mind that the majority of "UK" defence industry is actually French/German/US owned anyway."

I do not dispute the Francoamerican collaboration or your other points about defence industry ownership. However the US will only sell Trident to the UK and there is a closer relationship on defence issues between US/UK than between US and any other country. Explain to me please why the US would deliberately damage the UK economically when we are the 5th biggest economy on the planet and offer unstinting support of their foreign policy?

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By *imiUKMan over a year ago

Hereford

Did history cease for you in 1945?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Most yanks hate him for his lack of bollocks against Isis roll on the trump days ahead

I love hearing what most Americans think from British people. I wonder how he ever got elected...twice.

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By *ittie4UCouple over a year ago

Watford

"US foreign policy is defined by hard nosed pragmatism. They will not allow the UK to be damaged by a refusal to negotiate a trade deal. The EU is in terminal decline, a shrinking economy, migrant crisis, eurozone in melt down and a rising dissatisfaction with the EU from within the peoples of Europe. The U.K. Is not perfect but the US know us to be a reliable ally more so than the French or the Germans."

Game, set and match to Brexit then.

Brexit supporters know more about US foreign policy than the US President, who is after all from Kenyan origin, so can't be believed.

Brexit supporters know more about economics than the IMF, which is run by a French woman, so can't be believed.

Brexit supporters know more about trade negotiations than trade negotiators do, but they work for our government, so they can't be believed.

You must all be amazed that the polls aren't 100% for Brexit already.

Not.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Game, set and match to Brexit then.

Brexit supporters know more about US foreign policy than the US President, who is after all from Kenyan origin, so can't be believed.

Brexit supporters know more about economics than the IMF, which is run by a French woman, so can't be believed.

Brexit supporters know more about trade negotiations than trade negotiators do, but they work for our government, so they can't be believed.

You must all be amazed that the polls aren't 100% for Brexit already.

Not.

Hadn't thought about it like that before, but now you come to mention it...

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By *enard ArgenteMan over a year ago

London and France

[Removed by poster at 23/04/16 22:58:26]

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"[Removed by poster at 23/04/16 22:58:26]"

That presupposes that the EU is a safe and stable economically and politically organisation, which it clearly isn't.

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By *ittie4UCouple over a year ago

Watford

" Explain to me please why the US would deliberately damage the UK economically when we are the 5th biggest economy on the planet and offer unstinting support of their foreign policy?"

Seeing that we were mentally unstable enough to damage our economy and standing in the world by leaving the EU and with Brexit Boris and his mate Farage in charge, they might just think they were in fact just making the world a safer place.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Depending on the source the EU or the USA are either the biggest or second biggest economy in the world. In reality they are near enough equal whilst our economy is approximately a fifth of their size. The EU economy would be reduced by approximately 20% by us leaving. Even with this preduction the EU economy will still be the second largest world economy. It therefore makes far more sense for the USA to negotiate with the EU rather than us.

I would be grateful if you could explain why you think we the British should jump to the head of the trade negotiations queue?

I also doubt that we would stop all the US companies you mention from trading with us whilst we negotiated a trade deal with the US.

Your charge that Obama is being disengenuos is in fact you being so.

I think it's of vital importance that we the electorate have as much information as possible so that we can make an informed choice.

I believe I have clearly answered points already within this thread."

I think you are deliberately missing the point which is: If we exit the EU their economy will still be four times larger than ours. It makes far more sense for the USA to trade with an economy almost as large as their's. Any trade deal between the UK and the USA will only open up a UK market which is the fifth of the size of the USA. Your whole premise is based on the assumption that Obama is lying. If you wish to convince people of the strength of your argument, you should be willing to produce irrefutable evidence that Obama is lying.

We are fortunate to have an American couple (Marc.Courtney) contributing to this thread and they make the point that the Calafonian economy alone is bigger than ours. They also point out that after the USA, the EU and I shall add China; our's and the German economy (fourth largest) are both considerably smaller. By remaing in the EU, Germany will continue to have access to the two biggest world markets. Whilst we will be urgently trying to negotiate trade deals with both. This will result in the gap between our's and German's economy becoming larger and larger

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Depending on the source the EU or the USA are either the biggest or second biggest economy in the world. In reality they are near enough equal whilst our economy is approximately a fifth of their size. The EU economy would be reduced by approximately 20% by us leaving. Even with this preduction the EU economy will still be the second largest world economy. It therefore makes far more sense for the USA to negotiate with the EU rather than us.

I would be grateful if you could explain why you think we the British should jump to the head of the trade negotiations queue?

I also doubt that we would stop all the US companies you mention from trading with us whilst we negotiated a trade deal with the US.

Your charge that Obama is being disengenuos is in fact you being so.

I think it's of vital importance that we the electorate have as much information as possible so that we can make an informed choice.

I believe I have clearly answered points already within this thread.

The EU economy is in decline despite the best efforts of the Germans. The EU is also showing rapidly increasing evidence of instability, partly as a consequence of the poor economic performance, terrorism threat, the eurozone crisis and of course the migrant crisis - all of which are linked. I do not dispute your numbers, but would point out that the German export industry will be as keen to trade with the U.K. as the US. To suggest that the US can only negotiate one trade deal at a time is palpable nonsense. Obama is lying and we shouldn't be surprised about that.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Back of the queue for a trade deal! We weren't back of the queue when the US wanted countries to join them in their illegal invasion of Iraq.

And anyway Obama won't be president by then so how does he know what the next US administration will do?

Maybe he's forgotten that the US fought a war against the British to gain their independence to make their own laws and govern themselves. Just total hypocrisy.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Completely acceptable. The US can do whatever it wants with regards to trade with the UK (within international trade laws, of course).

If the UK leaves the EU it becomes less important to the US than the EU. Don't like it? Then either get more trading power or a bigger army.

On the 30th August 2013 The Commons voted against joining the US led strikes against Syria. The French said that the UK vote does not change it's resolve on the need to act in Syria. In this case it appears that France and not us were more prepared to act.

If we leave the EU we will firstly need to negotiate the terms of our leaving. Thus it would be pointless for us to negotiate new trade deals with non EU countries until we are certain of the consequences of our departure.

The above two points clearly illustrate that your last paragraph is nothing more than wishful thinking.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Completely acceptable. The US can do whatever it wants with regards to trade with the UK (within international trade laws, of course).

If the UK leaves the EU it becomes less important to the US than the EU. Don't like it? Then either get more trading power or a bigger army.

The above two points clearly illustrate that your last paragraph is nothing more than wishful thinking."

Neither did we join the US in Vietnam but the fact remains we are the most important US ally in pursuit of their foreign policy aims.

You are correct about negotiating our Brexit terms and all else will follow. So be it!

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By *horehouseCouple over a year ago

dissatisfied

Completely acceptable. The US can do whatever it wants with regards to trade with the UK (within international trade laws, of course).

If the UK leaves the EU it becomes less important to the US than the EU. Don't like it? Then either get more trading power or a bigger army.

The above two points clearly illustrate that your last paragraph is nothing more than wishful thinking.

Neither did we join the US in Vietnam but the fact remains we are the most important US ally in pursuit of their foreign policy aims.

You are correct about negotiating our Brexit terms and all else will follow. So be it!"
are You really a British born citizen holding a UK passport and not an ally Putin intent on destroying europe and the UK ?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The U.K. Will continue to be the US only realistic ally in pursuit of its foreign policy and as its strong partner in NATO as the rest of the EU countries are largely unprepared to exercise force and deploy their militaries in the that way we are. Consequentially it is not in the best interests of the US to artificially damage the UK economy.

The above two points clearly illustrate that your last paragraph is nothing more than wishful thinking.

Neither did we join the US in Vietnam but the fact remains we are the most important US ally in pursuit of their foreign policy aims.

You are correct about negotiating our Brexit terms and all else will follow. So be it!"

We are only the most important US ally when our foreign policy aims match those of the US.

Thank you for agreeing with me over negotiating our EU leaving terms. How can the UK negotiate trade deals with non EU countries if we don't know the consequences of our leaving. For that reason alone we will be at the back of the queue. Therefore by your own admission Obama's statement re trade deals must be true.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Completely acceptable. The US can do whatever it wants with regards to trade with the UK (within international trade laws, of course).

If the UK leaves the EU it becomes less important to the US than the EU. Don't like it? Then either get more trading power or a bigger army.

The above two points clearly illustrate that your last paragraph is nothing more than wishful thinking.

Neither did we join the US in Vietnam but the fact remains we are the most important US ally in pursuit of their foreign policy aims.

You are correct about negotiating our Brexit terms and all else will follow. So be it!are You really a British born citizen holding a UK passport and not an ally Putin intent on destroying europe and the UK ? "

Britains membership of the EU has little to do with the Wests ability to deal with Putin. Our membership of NATO and the UN Security Council on the other hand has everything to do with it.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

The above two points clearly illustrate that your last paragraph is nothing more than wishful thinking.

Neither did we join the US in Vietnam but the fact remains we are the most important US ally in pursuit of their foreign policy aims.

You are correct about negotiating our Brexit terms and all else will follow. So be it!

We are only the most important US ally when our foreign policy aims match those of the US.

Sorry to break the harmonious note, but you make a very strangulated point. In real world politics following a Brexit vote, negotiations would proceed across a broad front including trade terms as a non EU member with other non EU states.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Trade deals, unions, presidents and economics!.

You all want to know what's around the corner!.

No free trade or union will save you from it

Yes that's quite likely and must be addressed but in doing so we must not lose sight of the fact that too many of the world's population live in poverty and/or lack human rights.

"
.

I think 99.9% of the population are completely unaware of the scale of the problems, and the solutions.

Look every single country just signed the Paris accord, they all know, they've seen the evidence on what's coming, that's why they've suddenly got eager, the big problems are only 20 years away, at most.

Your all worried about the wrong things, in 20 years you'll think what the fuck was I banging on about!.

What were seeing now is just the beginning of whats to come, you think you've got migrant problems now!!! Just wait ten more years.

The cuts are coming, there'll be here within 5 years, flying will be a thing of the past within 10 years for most people as costs are going to go up 10 fold, you know for crying out loud, the pentagon builds all these facts into nearly every long term plan they have, ask any five star general.

The public just seen ambivalent with this idea that everything will just roll along as normal!.

They will be sadly disappointed

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

"Back of the queue for a trade deal! We weren't back of the queue when the US wanted countries to join them in their illegal invasion of Iraq.

And anyway Obama won't be president by then so how does he know what the next US administration will do?

Maybe he's forgotten that the US fought a war against the British to gain their independence to make their own laws and govern themselves. Just total hypocrisy."

Well it's interesting now to look at what is happening back in America as a result of Obama's comments here. Hillary Clinton taking the same line as Obama saying Britain should stay in the EU (as you would expect really as she is just another copy of the Obama establishment line which the people in America are becoming increasingly fed up with).

It was reported on sky news earlier in the day though a senior Whitehouse official said he "winced" when Obama said the UK can join the back of the queue for a trade deal. Seems like the Whitehouse trying to distance themselves from Obama's comments.

Then on the Republican side they seem to be taking a different angle with Ted Cruz saying Obama has made a complete mess of all this and that Obama should have actually said Britain leaving the EU would be an opportunity for the USA - UK special relationship to be strengthened.

Then you have Donald Trump who did an interview with Piers Morgan a few weeks ago in March in which he said he thinks Britain will leave the EU. He also said if he becomes President he will seek to strengthen ties with the UK even if we leave EU, and Britain has a special place in his heart because he has British relatives. When Piers Morgan asked him about the calls to ban him from Britain he said he didn't take any notice of it because it was all nonsense and it didn't gain any traction.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The above two points clearly illustrate that your last paragraph is nothing more than wishful thinking.

Neither did we join the US in Vietnam but the fact remains we are the most important US ally in pursuit of their foreign policy aims.

You are correct about negotiating our Brexit terms and all else will follow. So be it!

We are only the most important US ally when our foreign policy aims match those of the US.

Maybe some countries will start negotiations with us but it will be difficult to reach a satisfactory conclussion without knowing the consequences; financial and otherwise of our EU exit. So what's the point of wasting time on futile talks that are dependant on external factors.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The UK army is a joke compared to our US army. They are not even comparable, no military branch in the world is. Some of the comments on here are assinine and hold no weight in any conversation. U S A all the way. One more thing, Fuck Trump, if he gets elected we're all fucked.

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By *ngel n tedCouple over a year ago

maidstone

"The UK army is a joke compared to our US army. They are not even comparable, no military branch in the world is. Some of the comments on here are assinine and hold no weight in any conversation. U S A all the way. One more thing, Fuck Trump, if he gets elected we're all fucked."

Just lol

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

Nauseating turn of events frankly."

The Leave campaign will never be happy with anything

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

Nauseating turn of events frankly.

The Leave campaign will never be happy with anything "

Oh, and Obama is right

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Apparently in America there is 1 guy sitting in a small dingy office with a piece of paper and a pencil writing out trade deals and his only form of communication is by pigeon post. This is why trade deals take so long and there is such a big queue

Its bollocks

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

well you better hope that cruz or trump would beat hillary in a general election run off......

shame its not happening....

plus cruz and trump are both whackjobs......

there have been economists on the sunday news shows this morning saying that any uk-us trade deal would likely take closer to 10 years to complete rather than 2 the brexiters like to claim....

also if you think the EU-Canada deal took 8 years..... and you are really not going to tell me that it took that long because our european brothers were holding it up....

the people on the leave side always like the say that the EU needs the UK more than the UK needs the EU....... but the Problem is the UK needs the US more than the US needs the UK...

there is a fair amount of irony in the fact that brexiters want to leave the EU..... but desperately want to fall back into the arms of the old "commonwealth".... the canada, australia, india, ect......

they do truely live in a bygone era......

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By *ngel n tedCouple over a year ago

maidstone

We'll be alright when ttip arrives, i'll be supporting london at rollerball

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

"Apparently in America there is 1 guy sitting in a small dingy office with a piece of paper and a pencil writing out trade deals and his only form of communication is by pigeon post. This is why trade deals take so long and there is such a big queue

Its bollocks"

Yes and as Boris Johnson pointed out yesterday Britain has had no trade deal with USA for the last 40 years because we can't have a Uk/USA one while we are members of the EU.

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

"We'll be alright when ttip arrives, i'll be supporting london at rollerball"

It'll also privatise the NHS.

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"friends don't let friends get behind a steering wheel d*unk!"

let me use a different analogy....

if you saw "miss world" in a club and you wanted to try your luck.... you mate doesn't tell you that you should or you shouldn't..... but what he tells you is the person next to miss world is her "6ft7 triple world champion mma boyfriend/ape, who has a notoriously short temper......"

so you could go up to her if you really really want to.... and you could sweet talk her like you have never done before...and she could end leaving with you and you could live happily ever after....... but its more likely reality is that he end up breaking every bone in your body and you end up having to take hospital food thru a straw for a long time

see..... all i hear from the leave side is " we are going to leave, and we will get everything we want on our timetable!!! because!!!! just because!!!"

but that not realistic!!!!

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By *adystephanieTV/TS over a year ago

glos

As I understand it it could take 2 years to renegotiate trade deals with the US, and we would be still disconnecting from Europe during that period so I guess as a large part of trade with the US involves defence maybe they wouldn't need any spare parts for a couple of years ......

But to be honest here that is not the real issue....we would be dealing with a nation that allows mass shootings to continue on almost a monthly basis, and who's people are so fucked up they might actually elect a total twat to run their madhouse....

FFS what have we to worry about let's talk to Putin

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

'The EU faces an age of comparative economic decline'

'EU share of global gdp will soon be down to 15%'

'80% of growth will come from outside the EU' -- Jean-Claude Juncker

The future is the EU? Don't make me laugh.

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"'The EU faces an age of comparative economic decline'

'EU share of global gdp will soon be down to 15%'

'80% of growth will come from outside the EU' -- Jean-Claude Juncker

The future is the EU? Don't make me laugh."

the future is in big trading blocks.... so if you think you are going to be trading one (the EU) for another (the Commonwealth) thats a bit of living on past glories.......

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

well you better hope that cruz or trump would beat hillary in a general election run off......

shame its not happening....

plus cruz and trump are both whackjobs......

there have been economists on the sunday news shows this morning saying that any uk-us trade deal would likely take closer to 10 years to complete rather than 2 the brexiters like to claim....

also if you think the EU-Canada deal took 8 years..... and you are really not going to tell me that it took that long because our european brothers were holding it up....

the people on the leave side always like the say that the EU needs the UK more than the UK needs the EU....... but the Problem is the UK needs the US more than the US needs the UK...

they do truely live in a bygone era......"

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"'The EU faces an age of comparative economic decline'

'EU share of global gdp will soon be down to 15%'

'80% of growth will come from outside the EU' -- Jean-Claude Juncker

The future is the EU? Don't make me laugh.

the future is in big trading blocks.... so if you think you are going to be trading one (the EU) for another (the Commonwealth) thats a bit of living on past glories.......

Why is it in big trading blocks? What, like the Soviet Union? You do realise that India will soon be the worlds biggest economy don't you?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Nauseating turn of events frankly."

agree;

the correct thing he should have said is;

"whatever way the UK decides to vote, the USA will stand by as close and strategic allies"

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

agree;

the correct thing he should have said is;

"whatever way the UK decides to vote, the USA will stand by as close and strategic allies""

he did say that.....

but what he also said was there wouldn't be any sweetheart deal just because you were on your own, which is being realistic!!!! and thats the bit you don't like!!!!

so what people are telling you will happen on a possible exit is incorrect....and he made that point clear

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

"'The EU faces an age of comparative economic decline'

'EU share of global gdp will soon be down to 15%'

'80% of growth will come from outside the EU' -- Jean-Claude Juncker

The future is the EU? Don't make me laugh.

the future is in big trading blocks.... so if you think you are going to be trading one (the EU) for another (the Commonwealth) thats a bit of living on past glories.......

Why is it in big trading blocks? What, like the Soviet Union? You do realise that India will soon be the worlds biggest economy don't you?"

India not part of any trading block, China not part of any trading block, USA not part of any trading block.....I see a trend developing here.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

agree;

the correct thing he should have said is;

"whatever way the UK decides to vote, the USA will stand by as close and strategic allies"

he did say that.....

but what he also said was there wouldn't be any sweetheart deal just because you were on your own, which is being realistic!!!! and thats the bit you don't like!!!!

so what people are telling you will happen on a possible exit is incorrect....and he made that point clear"

So what you really mean is Obama contradicted himself then?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

"'The EU faces an age of comparative economic decline'

'EU share of global gdp will soon be down to 15%'

'80% of growth will come from outside the EU' -- Jean-Claude Juncker

The future is the EU? Don't make me laugh.

the future is in big trading blocks.... so if you think you are going to be trading one (the EU) for another (the Commonwealth) thats a bit of living on past glories.......

Why is it in big trading blocks? What, like the Soviet Union? You do realise that India will soon be the worlds biggest economy don't you?

India not part of any trading block, China not part of any trading block, USA not part of any trading block.....I see a trend developing here.

the only similarity if we left would be that we were a single trading country as they are, to try to make any correlation trade wise is not even Brexit fantasy land..

its la la land..

do the numbers...

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"'The EU faces an age of comparative economic decline'

'EU share of global gdp will soon be down to 15%'

'80% of growth will come from outside the EU' -- Jean-Claude Juncker

The future is the EU? Don't make me laugh.

the future is in big trading blocks.... so if you think you are going to be trading one (the EU) for another (the Commonwealth) thats a bit of living on past glories.......

Why is it in big trading blocks? What, like the Soviet Union? You do realise that India will soon be the worlds biggest economy don't you?

India not part of any trading block, China not part of any trading block, USA not part of any trading block.....I see a trend developing here.

the only similarity if we left would be that we were a single trading country as they are, to try to make any correlation trade wise is not even Brexit fantasy land..

its la la land..

do the numbers... "

Australia?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"'The EU faces an age of comparative economic decline'

'EU share of global gdp will soon be down to 15%'

'80% of growth will come from outside the EU' -- Jean-Claude Juncker

The future is the EU? Don't make me laugh.

the future is in big trading blocks.... so if you think you are going to be trading one (the EU) for another (the Commonwealth) thats a bit of living on past glories.......

Why is it in big trading blocks? What, like the Soviet Union? You do realise that India will soon be the worlds biggest economy don't you?"

thanks for displaying your ignorance on the subject....

the Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership (RCEP) comprising the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) plus Australia, China, India, Japan, Korea and New Zealand - involving 45% of the world population and a third of world GDP, and including two of the three largest

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

"'The EU faces an age of comparative economic decline'

'EU share of global gdp will soon be down to 15%'

'80% of growth will come from outside the EU' -- Jean-Claude Juncker

The future is the EU? Don't make me laugh.

the future is in big trading blocks.... so if you think you are going to be trading one (the EU) for another (the Commonwealth) thats a bit of living on past glories.......

Why is it in big trading blocks? What, like the Soviet Union? You do realise that India will soon be the worlds biggest economy don't you?

India not part of any trading block, China not part of any trading block, USA not part of any trading block.....I see a trend developing here.

the only similarity if we left would be that we were a single trading country as they are, to try to make any correlation trade wise is not even Brexit fantasy land..

its la la land..

do the numbers...

Australia?"

as they are behind us and all of the ones mentioned, not really relevant unless your cherry picking one of the more successful members of the 'commonwealth'..?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

"'The EU faces an age of comparative economic decline'

'EU share of global gdp will soon be down to 15%'

'80% of growth will come from outside the EU' -- Jean-Claude Juncker

The future is the EU? Don't make me laugh.

the future is in big trading blocks.... so if you think you are going to be trading one (the EU) for another (the Commonwealth) thats a bit of living on past glories.......

Why is it in big trading blocks? What, like the Soviet Union? You do realise that India will soon be the worlds biggest economy don't you?

thanks for displaying your ignorance on the subject....

Funny surreysensual just said India and China were independent trading countries.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"'The EU faces an age of comparative economic decline'

'EU share of global gdp will soon be down to 15%'

'80% of growth will come from outside the EU' -- Jean-Claude Juncker

The future is the EU? Don't make me laugh.

the future is in big trading blocks.... so if you think you are going to be trading one (the EU) for another (the Commonwealth) thats a bit of living on past glories.......

Why is it in big trading blocks? What, like the Soviet Union? You do realise that India will soon be the worlds biggest economy don't you?

thanks for displaying your ignorance on the subject....

That is a trade agreement not a trading bloc

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *rmrshorny2Couple over a year ago

Seaside

funny pops in to see her majesty think she might had quiet word with Obama

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Strangely it is about democracy, not threatening a so called friend with punitive measures if we don't do as we are told."

Not this again lol

He was hardly threatening us....more like trying to make people wake up to the realities of leaving. Its obvious that any country would put getting a trade deal with the EU first before dealing with one country.

Boris and Farage have had plenty to say over the years about politics in other countries and our relationship with them.

Cant believe im being sucked into this lol

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ittie4UCouple over a year ago

Watford

the correct thing he should have said is;

"whatever way the UK decides to vote, the USA will stand by as close and strategic allies""

Team Brexit. Quick to dish it out. Quick to take offence. And now deaf too, apparently.

That is exactly what he did say.

He also said the UK would be mad to leave the EU and that the Brexit fantasy of a quick trade agreement with the US was just that. a Brexit fantasy.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ittie4UCouple over a year ago

Watford

agree;

the correct thing he should have said is;

"whatever way the UK decides to vote, the USA will stand by as close and strategic allies"

he did say that.....

but what he also said was there wouldn't be any sweetheart deal just because you were on your own, which is being realistic!!!! and thats the bit you don't like!!!!

so what people are telling you will happen on a possible exit is incorrect....and he made that point clear

So what you really mean is Obama contradicted himself then? "

When is your birthday?

I'll buy you a new barrel scraper. Yours must be well worn by now.

A good German one too, as we all know you don't like Chinese rubbish.

I'll wrap it and everything. I'll even send it to Cannock for you.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *enard ArgenteMan over a year ago

London and France

the correct thing he should have said is;

"whatever way the UK decides to vote, the USA will stand by as close and strategic allies"

Team Brexit. Quick to dish it out. Quick to take offence. And now deaf too, apparently.

That is exactly what he did say.

He also said the UK would be mad to leave the EU and that the Brexit fantasy of a quick trade agreement with the US was just that. a Brexit fantasy."

And before Boris Johnson decided to back BREXIT ( which he has only done as he thinks it's an easier way to grab the Tory leadership) he actually said exactly the same thing as Obama; that UK needed to be in the EU for trade reasons; and that leaving would make UK have to spend years trying to set up individual trade agreements .

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

agree;

the correct thing he should have said is;

"whatever way the UK decides to vote, the USA will stand by as close and strategic allies"

he did say that.....

but what he also said was there wouldn't be any sweetheart deal just because you were on your own, which is being realistic!!!! and thats the bit you don't like!!!!

so what people are telling you will happen on a possible exit is incorrect....and he made that point clear

So what you really mean is Obama contradicted himself then?

When is your birthday?

I'll buy you a new barrel scraper. Yours must be well worn by now.

A good German one too, as we all know you don't like Chinese rubbish.

I'll wrap it and everything. I'll even send it to Cannock for you."

Are you sure you can afford the expense? I mean with all the pessimism, doom and gloom the remain in campaign keep peddling, you must be watching every single penny.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

the correct thing he should have said is;

"whatever way the UK decides to vote, the USA will stand by as close and strategic allies"

Team Brexit. Quick to dish it out. Quick to take offence. And now deaf too, apparently.

That is exactly what he did say.

He also said the UK would be mad to leave the EU and that the Brexit fantasy of a quick trade agreement with the US was just that. a Brexit fantasy.

That would still be quicker than the 40 years we've not had a Uk/USA trade deal as members of the EU.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

the correct thing he should have said is;

"whatever way the UK decides to vote, the USA will stand by as close and strategic allies"

Team Brexit. Quick to dish it out. Quick to take offence. And now deaf too, apparently.

That is exactly what he did say.

He also said the UK would be mad to leave the EU and that the Brexit fantasy of a quick trade agreement with the US was just that. a Brexit fantasy."

Seeing as we imported 59 billion dollars worth of goods from the USA last year, as much as Spain, Italy and France combined, I don't think they'll take too long over it

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Question: I figure a lot of Brits have taken jobs in other EU countries.

What happens to them?

They'll lose their free pass into Schengen.

Will it result in many people returning, jobless to the UK?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Question: I figure a lot of Brits have taken jobs in other EU countries.

What happens to them?

They'll lose their free pass into Schengen.

Will it result in many people returning, jobless to the UK?"

Nope. I've got friends who've lived and worked or opened bars in Spain since the 60s and early 70s, before the EU. Why should it change?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"'The EU faces an age of comparative economic decline'

'EU share of global gdp will soon be down to 15%'

'80% of growth will come from outside the EU' -- Jean-Claude Juncker

The future is the EU? Don't make me laugh.

the future is in big trading blocks.... so if you think you are going to be trading one (the EU) for another (the Commonwealth) thats a bit of living on past glories.......

Why is it in big trading blocks? What, like the Soviet Union? You do realise that India will soon be the worlds biggest economy don't you?

thanks for displaying your ignorance on the subject....

That is a trade agreement not a trading bloc"

Both the Institute for International Economics and the World Bank describe ASEAN as one of the worlds trading blocs. But what would they know?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Was thinking that the 90 day Schengen Zone rules would then apply to Brits.

If in SZ 90 days ya gotta go out 90 days. Brits would need to start present passports like other non-EU

Just asking.

Doesn't affect me.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

the correct thing he should have said is;

"whatever way the UK decides to vote, the USA will stand by as close and strategic allies"

Team Brexit. Quick to dish it out. Quick to take offence. And now deaf too, apparently.

That is exactly what he did say.

He also said the UK would be mad to leave the EU and that the Brexit fantasy of a quick trade agreement with the US was just that. a Brexit fantasy.

Seeing as we imported 59 billion dollars worth of goods from the USA last year, as much as Spain, Italy and France combined, I don't think they'll take too long over it

But maybe slightly longer than they'd take dealing with the EU for it's $272 billion dollars worth of imports ($216 bn if you subtract the $56bn to the UK). It's odd that you chose a comparison with France, Italy and Spain when if you were to choose 3 countries the US exports to Germany, the Netherlands and Belgium are more than double the figure to the UK.

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By *enard ArgenteMan over a year ago

London and France

"Question: I figure a lot of Brits have taken jobs in other EU countries.

What happens to them?

They'll lose their free pass into Schengen.

Will it result in many people returning, jobless to the UK?"

No.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ittie4UCouple over a year ago

Watford

agree;

the correct thing he should have said is;

"whatever way the UK decides to vote, the USA will stand by as close and strategic allies"

he did say that.....

but what he also said was there wouldn't be any sweetheart deal just because you were on your own, which is being realistic!!!! and thats the bit you don't like!!!!

so what people are telling you will happen on a possible exit is incorrect....and he made that point clear

So what you really mean is Obama contradicted himself then?

When is your birthday?

I'll buy you a new barrel scraper. Yours must be well worn by now.

A good German one too, as we all know you don't like Chinese rubbish.

I'll wrap it and everything. I'll even send it to Cannock for you.

Are you sure you can afford the expense? I mean with all the pessimism, doom and gloom the remain in campaign keep peddling, you must be watching every single penny. "

No pessimism, doom or gloom here. I'd describe it more as hilarity at the contortions you continue to go through to justify the unjustifiable.

Honestly, it's no problem. Besides, you'll need something to cheer you up on June 24th, when the electorate demonstrate that they are far smarter than you give them credit for.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ittie4UCouple over a year ago

Watford

"Question: I figure a lot of Brits have taken jobs in other EU countries.

What happens to them?

They'll lose their free pass into Schengen.

Will it result in many people returning, jobless to the UK?

Nope. I've got friends who've lived and worked or opened bars in Spain since the 60s and early 70s, before the EU. Why should it change?"

So, lets just get this one straight then. In your world (the Brexit fantasy world) we would all continue to have unrestricted access to live and work in the EU.

But obviously EU citizens could not have that right to come here to live or work, because that would be unrestricted immigration - and that is one of the main reasons you want to leave the EU.

And the justification in your head for this completely absurd and impossibly one-sided situation is that a few of your mates owned a bar in Spain in the 1960s

Yep, I see a Brexit logic in it!

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

The great problem with this country is that it never got over its 'great' moment in 1945.

We have had 300-odd years of vaguely stable parliamentary democracy. We had the empire. We were never invaded, unlike the rest of Europe during WWII. And that 20 miles of English Channel mean a lot, psychologically.

However.

We don't live in the 1940s - and I'm thankful for that (btw 'our' victory in 1945 was mostly down to the Russians). We don;t have an empire as a captive market anymore.

We are smaller part of a larger world now, and I genuinely think that we're better off in the driving seat of Europe than sniping from the sidelines.

The Chinese won't listen to the UK on its own.

They might listen to the EU.

For instance.

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By *sianmale89Man over a year ago

Stockport

"The great problem with this country is that it never got over its 'great' moment in 1945.

However.

We don't live in the 1940s - and I'm thankful for that (btw 'our' victory in 1945 was mostly down to the Russians). We don;t have an empire as a captive market anymore.

We are smaller part of a larger world now, and I genuinely think that we're better off in the driving seat of Europe than sniping from the sidelines.

The Chinese won't listen to the UK on its own.

They might listen to the EU.

For instance. "

a student of history are we brother joseph? Impressive

, I have to say though that maybe the main reason why people want to exit the EU is down to their dislike off what they see is mass immigration..

other factors are laws being made and controlled by the EU instead of the british are some of the main reasons why they want out..

I personally have never voted or will ever bother for that matter but it's always interesting to see different/views or accounts so long as their reasonable from right wing to left wing so long as their not extreme.

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By *sianmale89Man over a year ago

Stockport

that and plus there are many people who want out off the U.K. for one reason or the other but probably have not fully looked at the pros and cons necessarily to it..

there are those who have done their thorough research in depth and want to take the brexit route and face the risks at first to come out stronger..

where as others even though they realise its not the greatest or best thing to be in the EU at times have figured out that it can be a necessary thing with the benefits which slightly out weight the cons at times who will vote stay in.

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

But this is a pointless circus - the EU referendum.

The Tories never wanted it - sure it was a manifesto pledge but ONLY if they got a majority, which no-one, least of all the Tories, expected. They only said it to out UKIP UKIP.

And now the party that proposed the referendum has to go through with this ridiculous charade, whilst the government itself opposes an exit...

Point is:

There's a slim majority of people who want to remain. A (hard core) minority of a 1/3rd or so who want to leave and then 15-20% undecided, who Camp Fear will scare shitless for the next 3 months.

The result is a foregone conclusion and yet it will cost a lot of government time and public money. Oh and important government business has all been put on the back burner.

Utter waste of time.

imo

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ittie4UCouple over a year ago

Watford

"The great problem with this country is that it never got over its 'great' moment in 1945.

However.

We don't live in the 1940s - and I'm thankful for that (btw 'our' victory in 1945 was mostly down to the Russians). We don;t have an empire as a captive market anymore.

We are smaller part of a larger world now, and I genuinely think that we're better off in the driving seat of Europe than sniping from the sidelines.

The Chinese won't listen to the UK on its own.

They might listen to the EU.

For instance. "

As usual, wise words from you. Have you ever thought about going into politics (joke!).

I'd add in the psychological impact of English being the global language too.

On average a European (and that includes the UK) speaks 2.6 languages. 60% of Brits can't even hold a basic conversation in a foreign language. Maybe, instead of trying to create some fantasy anglophonic single market across the world, we might actually try to learn to communicate with our European partners in the world's largest single market that we are already a member of.

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By *sianmale89Man over a year ago

Stockport

"But this is a pointless circus - the EU referendum.

The Tories never wanted it - sure it was a manifesto pledge but ONLY if they got a majority, which no-one, least of all the Tories, expected. They only said it to out UKIP UKIP.

And now the party that proposed the referendum has to go through with this ridiculous charade, whilst the government itself opposes an exit...

Point is:

There's a slim majority of people who want to remain. A (hard core) minority of a 1/3rd or so who want to leave and then 15-20% undecided, who Camp Fear will scare shitless for the next 3 months.

The result is a foregone conclusion and yet it will cost a lot of government time and public money. Oh and important government business has all been put on the back burner.

Utter waste of time.

imo"

It is a utter waste of time indeed but you have to remember in a democracy when a demand for something grows and it's well within the laws of voting to be decided then gets brought up hence the referendum..

Cameron being the genius he is wasted millions on this including on the leaflets to persuade people to vote stay in on this campaign instead off out..

If you ask me its a win/lose in a sense if the country votes out then its like a catch 22 in a sense it will be a struggle at first but can then slowly develop stronger over the years and flourish and have more money to invest and spend on it's own people..

however if that does not work out the repercussions can and will be severe as time goes on and for a while set backs would be imminent so for most the safer option would be to vote to stay in and reap the benefits more....so to speak

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

"The great problem with this country is that it never got over its 'great' moment in 1945.

However.

We don't live in the 1940s - and I'm thankful for that (btw 'our' victory in 1945 was mostly down to the Russians). We don;t have an empire as a captive market anymore.

We are smaller part of a larger world now, and I genuinely think that we're better off in the driving seat of Europe than sniping from the sidelines.

The Chinese won't listen to the UK on its own.

They might listen to the EU.

For instance.

As usual, wise words from you. Have you ever thought about going into politics (joke!).

I'd add in the psychological impact of English being the global language too.

A great friend of mine, now dead, once told me when he were a lad, in the 40s, came home and proudly told his father that Britain ruled 1/4 of the globe and had the biggest fleet.

"Yes," his father replied, "and children go to school with no shoes on their feet."

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ittie4UCouple over a year ago

Watford

"But this is a pointless circus - the EU referendum.

The Tories never wanted it - sure it was a manifesto pledge but ONLY if they got a majority, which no-one, least of all the Tories, expected. They only said it to out UKIP UKIP.

And now the party that proposed the referendum has to go through with this ridiculous charade, whilst the government itself opposes an exit...

Point is:

There's a slim majority of people who want to remain. A (hard core) minority of a 1/3rd or so who want to leave and then 15-20% undecided, who Camp Fear will scare shitless for the next 3 months.

The result is a foregone conclusion and yet it will cost a lot of government time and public money. Oh and important government business has all been put on the back burner.

Utter waste of time.

imo"

But some of us can dream....no more Farage, the Conservatives fatally split and continuing at war with each other.

Yes, I know. I'll wake up and it'll carry on as it ever did. The UK behaving like a spoiled child in Europe, idiots like Redwood, Cash et al continually bickering from the sidelines, Farage being as obnoxious as he ever was.

Maybe voting out and splitting up the Union isn't such a bad option....so long as I can apply for Scottish nationality afterwards. Would Scotland accept refugees?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

"But this is a pointless circus - the EU referendum.

The Tories never wanted it - sure it was a manifesto pledge but ONLY if they got a majority, which no-one, least of all the Tories, expected. They only said it to out UKIP UKIP.

And now the party that proposed the referendum has to go through with this ridiculous charade, whilst the government itself opposes an exit...

Point is:

There's a slim majority of people who want to remain. A (hard core) minority of a 1/3rd or so who want to leave and then 15-20% undecided, who Camp Fear will scare shitless for the next 3 months.

The result is a foregone conclusion and yet it will cost a lot of government time and public money. Oh and important government business has all been put on the back burner.

Utter waste of time.

imo

But some of us can dream....no more Farage, the Conservatives fatally split and continuing at war with each other.

Maybe voting out and splitting up the Union isn't such a bad option....so long as I can apply for Scottish nationality afterwards. Would Scotland accept refugees?"

It tells you something about the British attitude towards Europe that the largest UK party bloc is UKIP (not that the European Parliament decides much...).

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By *sianmale89Man over a year ago

Stockport

A great friend of mine, now dead, once told me when he were a lad, in the 40s, came home and proudly told his father that Britain ruled 1/4 of the globe and had the biggest fleet.

"Yes," his father replied, "and children go to school with no shoes on their feet." "

who knows maybe some people just feel nostalgic off the old days where they probably felt more independent or patriotic off their own identities off where they originate and their countries history..

nowadays it's probably why their fighting back so much to try and reclaim some off their past identities/glories as a way to make them proud again I suppose in a sense?

(just an observation nothing more or less of how SOME people may think NOT everyone)

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

A great friend of mine, now dead, once told me when he were a lad, in the 40s, came home and proudly told his father that Britain ruled 1/4 of the globe and had the biggest fleet.

"Yes," his father replied, "and children go to school with no shoes on their feet."

who knows maybe some people just feel nostalgic off the old days where they probably felt more independent or patriotic off their own identities off where they originate and their countries history..

nowadays it's probably why their fighting back so much to try and reclaim some off their past identities/glories as a way to make them proud again I suppose in a sense?

(just an observation nothing more or less of how SOME people may think NOT everyone)"

I suppose this is my point - for a continent that fought two devastating wars in 30 years that reshaped the world, consequently France and Germany had their economies shackled together so they couldn't ever fight...

But on a broader level, Spain was a dictatorship into the 1970s, as was Portugal. The Balkan states fought a series of wars in the 90s. The new or 'accession' states of Eastern Europe have 70 years of Soviet repression to think about.

For most, the EU represents stability and security. A collective.

The British psychological make up doesn't always understand this.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"But this is a pointless circus - the EU referendum.

The Tories never wanted it - sure it was a manifesto pledge but ONLY if they got a majority, which no-one, least of all the Tories, expected. They only said it to out UKIP UKIP.

And now the party that proposed the referendum has to go through with this ridiculous charade, whilst the government itself opposes an exit...

Point is:

There's a slim majority of people who want to remain. A (hard core) minority of a 1/3rd or so who want to leave and then 15-20% undecided, who Camp Fear will scare shitless for the next 3 months.

The result is a foregone conclusion and yet it will cost a lot of government time and public money. Oh and important government business has all been put on the back burner.

Utter waste of time.

imo"
.

Never a truer word wrote, everybody's arguing about trade and movement as if it's never going to change in the next 20 years... Even though every government in the world just signed a pledge to reduce carbon emissions by A MINIMUM 40%(but more likely 80%) in the next 14 years or face a world you can't even habituate in, in 40 years!!!

You know why Obama is being sent to tell you, you can't vote out, why the imf are saying you can't vote out... I mean according to the remainers, were an inconsequential tiny island with no clout whatsoever... Yet Obama the imf the world bank are taking time out of their ever so busy schedules to tell you... YOU CAN'T VOTE OUT??.

I mean he's been super busy with visits to the fed res, 4 in a week?, what do you think they were discussing before his visit??.

Write something worth reading or do something worth writing about

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Question: I figure a lot of Brits have taken jobs in other EU countries.

What happens to them?

They'll lose their free pass into Schengen.

Will it result in many people returning, jobless to the UK?

Nope. I've got friends who've lived and worked or opened bars in Spain since the 60s and early 70s, before the EU. Why should it change?

So, lets just get this one straight then. In your world (the Brexit fantasy world) we would all continue to have unrestricted access to live and work in the EU.

But obviously EU citizens could not have that right to come here to live or work, because that would be unrestricted immigration - and that is one of the main reasons you want to leave the EU.

And the justification in your head for this completely absurd and impossibly one-sided situation is that a few of your mates owned a bar in Spain in the 1960s

Yep, I see a Brexit logic in it!

Of course there would be some restrictions. The point I was trying to make was why would it change from how its always been! People have always moved around Europe to work!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

the correct thing he should have said is;

"whatever way the UK decides to vote, the USA will stand by as close and strategic allies"

Team Brexit. Quick to dish it out. Quick to take offence. And now deaf too, apparently.

That is exactly what he did say.

He also said the UK would be mad to leave the EU and that the Brexit fantasy of a quick trade agreement with the US was just that. a Brexit fantasy.

Seeing as we imported 59 billion dollars worth of goods from the USA last year, as much as Spain, Italy and France combined, I don't think they'll take too long over it

Like I said, theres just one bloke sitting in a room doing deals and 59 billion isnt worth bothering with is it?

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By *sianmale89Man over a year ago

Stockport

For most, the EU represents stability and security. A collective.

The British psychological make up doesn't always understand this. "

I guess it is quite a come down for some given the british empire used to rule quite a bit over the world and was once a force to be reckoned with in their hey day..

now they are pretty much over ruled by their over lords in brussels and they don't quite fancy bending the knee or being told what to do by outsiders in a sense..

I think maybe this is what genuinely life in britain is like when no mass wars/conflicts are on they are now dealing with their own internal issues be it economic/political/social etc is now being effected in many different levels and ways which is causing a strain..

who knows I guess maybe hard lessons will be learnt be it from staying in or exiting as ultimately people only learn the real out come one way or the other and will either get closure or continue to resist.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Speaking as an outsider - from what I've observed the "exit thang" comes from "foreigners" arriving in the UK and getting benefits while not contributing, not changing habits to British style, and having babies.

Could say the same about my ex-wife. But when the shit all came down she got the farm and I didn't even get an ass.

Shit happens so git yer boots on...

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

agree;

the correct thing he should have said is;

"whatever way the UK decides to vote, the USA will stand by as close and strategic allies"

he did say that.....

but what he also said was there wouldn't be any sweetheart deal just because you were on your own, which is being realistic!!!! and thats the bit you don't like!!!!

so what people are telling you will happen on a possible exit is incorrect....and he made that point clear

So what you really mean is Obama contradicted himself then?

When is your birthday?

I'll buy you a new barrel scraper. Yours must be well worn by now.

A good German one too, as we all know you don't like Chinese rubbish.

I'll wrap it and everything. I'll even send it to Cannock for you.

Are you sure you can afford the expense? I mean with all the pessimism, doom and gloom the remain in campaign keep peddling, you must be watching every single penny.

No pessimism, doom or gloom here. I'd describe it more as hilarity at the contortions you continue to go through to justify the unjustifiable.

Honestly, it's no problem. Besides, you'll need something to cheer you up on June 24th, when the electorate demonstrate that they are far smarter than you give them credit for. "

I won't need anything from you to cheer me up on June 24th because the electorate will demonstrate how smart they are by voting to leave the EU. Then I'll be out celebrating down the pub.

*note, you don't really need to save your pennies like Cameron's project fear tells you, we'll all be much better off outside of the EU as Professor Patrick Minford professor of economics at Cardiff University writes in the newspaper today, we'll all be financially better off outside of the EU as the price of goods comes down and the economy is boosted as a result of that.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

the correct thing he should have said is;

"whatever way the UK decides to vote, the USA will stand by as close and strategic allies"

Team Brexit. Quick to dish it out. Quick to take offence. And now deaf too, apparently.

That is exactly what he did say.

He also said the UK would be mad to leave the EU and that the Brexit fantasy of a quick trade agreement with the US was just that. a Brexit fantasy.

Seeing as we imported 59 billion dollars worth of goods from the USA last year, as much as Spain, Italy and France combined, I don't think they'll take too long over it

Like I said, theres just one bloke sitting in a room doing deals and 59 billion isnt worth bothering with is it?

What sort of skills do you think you need to negotiate a trade agreement? How many people do you need in the team? Which government departments are you going to involve? Who in industry will you involve? What diplomats will you need? What types of lawyers? What level of government are you going to involve in getting it ratified? Are all the people you need actually free to work on your trade agreement?

Have a little look at the NAFTA or the Canadian agreement with the EU. They're each about 1500 to 2000 pages of well defined legalese defined over years of meetings.

If you think that the people who know how to manage and deliver the different pieces of work involved successfully are freely available, you've got another think coming.

And of course if they don't get it exactly right for all the vested interests in the UK there'll be massive whinges from people who don't know what they're talking about telling us how the deal has sold the NHS down the river, or destroyed our steel industry, or given away our aerospace industry or undermined our military or whatever else they can dig up.

So you're right, there isn't just one person - it takes a lot of people over a long time. So they'll prioritise the bigger deals over the not so big ones.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

agree;

the correct thing he should have said is;

"whatever way the UK decides to vote, the USA will stand by as close and strategic allies"

he did say that.....

but what he also said was there wouldn't be any sweetheart deal just because you were on your own, which is being realistic!!!! and thats the bit you don't like!!!!

so what people are telling you will happen on a possible exit is incorrect....and he made that point clear

So what you really mean is Obama contradicted himself then?

When is your birthday?

I'll buy you a new barrel scraper. Yours must be well worn by now.

A good German one too, as we all know you don't like Chinese rubbish.

I'll wrap it and everything. I'll even send it to Cannock for you.

Are you sure you can afford the expense? I mean with all the pessimism, doom and gloom the remain in campaign keep peddling, you must be watching every single penny.

No pessimism, doom or gloom here. I'd describe it more as hilarity at the contortions you continue to go through to justify the unjustifiable.

Honestly, it's no problem. Besides, you'll need something to cheer you up on June 24th, when the electorate demonstrate that they are far smarter than you give them credit for.

I won't need anything from you to cheer me up on June 24th because the electorate will demonstrate how smart they are by voting to leave the EU. Then I'll be out celebrating down the pub.

So the President of The United States talks bollocks, but the former economic advisor to the government of Malawi is the dogs bollocks? Hmmmmmm

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

the correct thing he should have said is;

"whatever way the UK decides to vote, the USA will stand by as close and strategic allies"

Team Brexit. Quick to dish it out. Quick to take offence. And now deaf too, apparently.

That is exactly what he did say.

He also said the UK would be mad to leave the EU and that the Brexit fantasy of a quick trade agreement with the US was just that. a Brexit fantasy.

Seeing as we imported 59 billion dollars worth of goods from the USA last year, as much as Spain, Italy and France combined, I don't think they'll take too long over it

Like I said, theres just one bloke sitting in a room doing deals and 59 billion isnt worth bothering with is it?

Have a little look at the NAFTA or the Canadian agreement with the EU. They're each about 1500 to 2000 pages of well defined legalese defined over years of meetings.

If you think that the people who know how to manage and deliver the different pieces of work involved successfully are freely available, you've got another think coming.

So you're right, there isn't just one person - it takes a lot of people over a long time. So they'll prioritise the bigger deals over the not so big ones."

Thank you, you've just given an excellent reason for leaving the EU

Do you not realise that trade deals with the EU take so long because all 28 members have to be in agreement?

How much quicker to do a deal with one? We could have made billions while the EU are prevaricating!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Oh and RECP is a trade agreement not a trading block!

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

As the thread is now closing will we see the usual rhetoric from those in the leave camp who as with other threads have duck and prevaricated rather than address the issue's raised..

'yeah but no but we are right' because we said so and 'it will be ok' (despite the mounting case against by those in the know and with the experience of dealing with such issues) because we think so is sort of becoming rather predictable..

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By *ngel n tedCouple over a year ago

maidstone

[Removed by poster at 24/04/16 20:04:21]

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

And (apologies if iv'e missed it) when is the leave camp going to give their own economic case in writing..?

not saying i trust Osborne but there needs to be an alternative position again rather than the bluff and bluster that some have come out with thus far..