FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Ched Evans

Ched Evans

By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Conviction overturned on appeal.

Personally I was always unsure of the verdict, given that defence evidence included texts between him, the woman and another guy...arranging an mfm threesome which apparently took place. The other guy never charged with anything!

Wonder where the re-trial will go as I can't see there being any other evidence. The appeal court judges were very clear that the evidence in first trial indicated not guilty.

Watch this space I suppose!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The other guy was charged...and was found not guilty

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By *anchestercubMan over a year ago

manchester & NI

There did seem to be a good chance he'd win his appeal from what I'd read about it.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Why is there a re-trial if they feel he's not guilty? I don't understand why?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I don't know how it works but would think the women wontcwant to go back to court .he is lucky that his girlfriend and her very rich dad have stood by him even the he has admitted having sex with girl

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By *isscheekychopsWoman over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

He faces a retrial

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By *oo hotCouple over a year ago

North West

"Why is there a re-trial if they feel he's not guilty? I don't understand why? "

I am guessing that the Appeal Court is probably mortified at what the CPS and North Wales Police did. So rather than let them off the hook, the Appeal Court has thrown the ball firmly back to North Wales to sort their own shit out.

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By *oo hotCouple over a year ago

North West

"He faces a retrial "

The people on trial will be North WEales Police and the CPS. They are up shit creek at the moment and they only have themselves to blame.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Look at his web site and read some of the stuff what wasn't aloud in the first trial and what the video of the girl ( who says she was so d*unk she didn't know what she was doing ) also she just happened to lose her phone with all the text message and deleted tweets about the night

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By *olgateMan over a year ago

on the road to nowhere in particular

"Look at his web site and read some of the stuff what wasn't aloud in the first trial and what the video of the girl ( who says she was so d*unk she didn't know what she was doing ) also she just happened to lose her phone with all the text message and deleted tweets about the night

Obviously his website it totally impartial

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"He faces a retrial

The people on trial will be North WEales Police and the CPS. They are up shit creek at the moment and they only have themselves to blame."

You seem to ignore the fact that a jury convicted him

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

A jury consists of 12 ordinary people. There are a lot of thick / prejudice / gullible people in any given population.

If you run enough trials, the probability of getting 12 absolute morons on the jury is a actually scarily common.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"He faces a retrial

The people on trial will be North WEales Police and the CPS. They are up shit creek at the moment and they only have themselves to blame.

You seem to ignore the fact that a jury convicted him"

I'm sure it wouldn't be the first time an innocent man has been found guilty.......

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Obviously his website it totally impartial

If you read the BBC coverage, the case is suspicious enough!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

When he was convicted I was quite vociferous in saying it was a joke on these very forums .

I got proper chastised by other forumites but stood by my comments .

Any reason minded person could see she was hell bent on getting him done , maybe because she regretted her part in it , maybe because he saw her as an easy shag , who knows ?

But thank goodness we have a legal system that can put right a wrong .

Potentially anyone shagging anyone else in a club or hotel on here could be in his position if the other person has had a drink .

The jurors who decided he was guilty should be ashamed of themselves .

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By *razedcatMan over a year ago

London / Herts

It will be interesting to see how the retrial is run, and I wonder what this new relevant evidence that has recently come to light is.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"When he was convicted I was quite vociferous in saying it was a joke on these very forums .

I got proper chastised by other forumites but stood by my comments .

Any reason minded person could see she was hell bent on getting him done , maybe because she regretted her part in it , maybe because he saw her as an easy shag , who knows ?

But thank goodness we have a legal system that can put right a wrong ."

For the small price of 5 years of your life it can.

I hope that bitch Jessica Ennis-Hill feels good about herself now.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It will be interesting to see how the retrial is run, and I wonder what this new relevant evidence that has recently come to light is. "

My guess would be that it's the same evidence the other jury saw that didn't convict another guy of fucking the same woman, on the same night, in the same room. But that's just a hunch.

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By *oo hotCouple over a year ago

North West

"When he was convicted I was quite vociferous in saying it was a joke on these very forums .

I got proper chastised by other forumites but stood by my comments .

Any reason minded person could see she was hell bent on getting him done , maybe because she regretted her part in it , maybe because he saw her as an easy shag , who knows ?

But thank goodness we have a legal system that can put right a wrong .

Potentially anyone shagging anyone else in a club or hotel on here could be in his position if the other person has had a drink .

The jurors who decided he was guilty should be ashamed of themselves ."

I too have championed this guys case on here and elsewhere. Please remember that the alleged victim did not complain of rape or assault. She was led down that path by North Wales Police and the CPS.

This is going to be tough on her and none of it is her fault. She has been treated appallingly by everyone because she agreed to stand by what the Police and CPS said would be best.

Heads need to roll in North Wales.

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By *ancadamMan over a year ago

Stockport

"When he was convicted I was quite vociferous in saying it was a joke on these very forums .

I got proper chastised by other forumites but stood by my comments .

Any reason minded person could see she was hell bent on getting him done , maybe because she regretted her part in it , maybe because he saw her as an easy shag , who knows ?

But thank goodness we have a legal system that can put right a wrong .

For the small price of 5 years of your life it can.

I hope that bitch Jessica Ennis-Hill feels good about herself now. "
what's she got to do with it?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"When he was convicted I was quite vociferous in saying it was a joke on these very forums .

I got proper chastised by other forumites but stood by my comments .

Any reason minded person could see she was hell bent on getting him done , maybe because she regretted her part in it , maybe because he saw her as an easy shag , who knows ?

But thank goodness we have a legal system that can put right a wrong .

For the small price of 5 years of your life it can.

I hope that bitch Jessica Ennis-Hill feels good about herself now. what's she got to do with it?"

She was very proud of the fact that she was instrumental in preventing him getting a job again after he was released.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"When he was convicted I was quite vociferous in saying it was a joke on these very forums .

I got proper chastised by other forumites but stood by my comments .

Any reason minded person could see she was hell bent on getting him done , maybe because she regretted her part in it , maybe because he saw her as an easy shag , who knows ?

But thank goodness we have a legal system that can put right a wrong .

For the small price of 5 years of your life it can.

I hope that bitch Jessica Ennis-Hill feels good about herself now. what's she got to do with it?

She was very proud of the fact that she was instrumental in preventing him getting a job again after he was released."

At that stage he was a convicted rapist...so why does that make her a bitch?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"When he was convicted I was quite vociferous in saying it was a joke on these very forums .

I got proper chastised by other forumites but stood by my comments .

Any reason minded person could see she was hell bent on getting him done , maybe because she regretted her part in it , maybe because he saw her as an easy shag , who knows ?

But thank goodness we have a legal system that can put right a wrong .

For the small price of 5 years of your life it can.

I hope that bitch Jessica Ennis-Hill feels good about herself now. what's she got to do with it?

She was very proud of the fact that she was instrumental in preventing him getting a job again after he was released.

At that stage he was a convicted rapist...so why does that make her a bitch?"

2 reasons:

1) Any idiot could see his conviction was suspect

2) He'd served his time and was ready to become a contributing member of society again

Plus isn't hindsight a wonderful fucking thing

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"A jury consists of 12 ordinary people. There are a lot of thick / prejudice / gullible people in any given population.

If you run enough trials, the probability of getting 12 absolute morons on the jury is a actually scarily common. "

It must be awful to have such a dim _iew of humanity.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

these days who makes up the jury? could any normal working person be able to go on a jury? I only know one person who has been on jury service in 50 years .....

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By *ancadamMan over a year ago

Stockport

"When he was convicted I was quite vociferous in saying it was a joke on these very forums .

I got proper chastised by other forumites but stood by my comments .

Any reason minded person could see she was hell bent on getting him done , maybe because she regretted her part in it , maybe because he saw her as an easy shag , who knows ?

But thank goodness we have a legal system that can put right a wrong .

For the small price of 5 years of your life it can.

I hope that bitch Jessica Ennis-Hill feels good about herself now. what's she got to do with it?

She was very proud of the fact that she was instrumental in preventing him getting a job again after he was released.

At that stage he was a convicted rapist...so why does that make her a bitch?

2 reasons:

1) Any idiot could see his conviction was suspect

2) He'd served his time and was ready to become a contributing member of society again

Plus isn't hindsight a wonderful fucking thing"
couldn't agree more.anyone looking at the case in detail should have realised it was a very odd conviction.hadn't realised that ennis hill had stuck her oar in.just currying favour and raising profile i would think.i would think the girl involved and the police will be exposed through this.i don't admire ched Evans.the incident was sleazy cheap and commonplace.however i don't think there is evidence of actual non consent having studied the case.very interesting though.and scary what can happen at a trial.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"A jury consists of 12 ordinary people. There are a lot of thick / prejudice / gullible people in any given population.

If you run enough trials, the probability of getting 12 absolute morons on the jury is a actually scarily common.

It must be awful to have such a dim _iew of humanity."

It must be awful for you to be blindsided by the realisation that our legal system can fail so epically!

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By *ancadamMan over a year ago

Stockport

"A jury consists of 12 ordinary people. There are a lot of thick / prejudice / gullible people in any given population.

If you run enough trials, the probability of getting 12 absolute morons on the jury is a actually scarily common.

It must be awful to have such a dim _iew of humanity."
I've served on a jury and believe me its amazing the level of intellect and inability to absorb information some people display.all wrapped up in pre conceptions and imbedded prejudice.sorry but its true.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"these days who makes up the jury? could any normal working person be able to go on a jury? I only know one person who has been on jury service in 50 years ....."

Anyone on the Electoral Roll can be called for jury service. The chances of getting 12 "morons" is actually decidedly slim, if not impossible.

But perhaps we should reserve jury service for scrutinsed and politically sound "clever" people, like they do in, say, North Korea.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"When he was convicted I was quite vociferous in saying it was a joke on these very forums .

I got proper chastised by other forumites but stood by my comments .

Any reason minded person could see she was hell bent on getting him done , maybe because she regretted her part in it , maybe because he saw her as an easy shag , who knows ?

But thank goodness we have a legal system that can put right a wrong .

For the small price of 5 years of your life it can.

I hope that bitch Jessica Ennis-Hill feels good about herself now. what's she got to do with it?

She was very proud of the fact that she was instrumental in preventing him getting a job again after he was released.

At that stage he was a convicted rapist...so why does that make her a bitch?

2 reasons:

1) Any idiot could see his conviction was suspect

2) He'd served his time and was ready to become a contributing member of society again

Plus isn't hindsight a wonderful fucking thing couldn't agree more.anyone looking at the case in detail should have realised it was a very odd conviction.hadn't realised that ennis hill had stuck her oar in.just currying favour and raising profile i would think.i would think the girl involved and the police will be exposed through this.i don't admire ched Evans.the incident was sleazy cheap and commonplace.however i don't think there is evidence of actual non consent having studied the case.very interesting though.and scary what can happen at a trial.

Oh sure, I don't like him at all! He's an idiot but being an idiot doesn't justify taking 5 years away from the prime of his life.

Since it actually costs the taxpayer money to stick someone in prison, even if they are guilty, then I'd rather they get a job after and pay some tax back please.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"these days who makes up the jury? could any normal working person be able to go on a jury? I only know one person who has been on jury service in 50 years .....

Anyone on the Electoral Roll can be called for jury service. The chances of getting 12 "morons" is actually decidedly slim, if not impossible.

But perhaps we should reserve jury service for scrutinsed and politically sound "clever" people, like they do in, say, North Korea."

Perhaps we should convict people of bogus crimes like they do in North Korea...

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By *ancadamMan over a year ago

Stockport

"these days who makes up the jury? could any normal working person be able to go on a jury? I only know one person who has been on jury service in 50 years .....

Anyone on the Electoral Roll can be called for jury service. The chances of getting 12 "morons" is actually decidedly slim, if not impossible.

But perhaps we should reserve jury service for scrutinsed and politically sound "clever" people, like they do in, say, North Korea."
i know what you mean but it just takes a couple of very strong prejudice people with their own agenda about the charge to sway the thinking.plus i found that unbelievably many were primarily concerned with getting it all over with.

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By *piritsonfabCouple over a year ago

Nottingham

I believe the extra evidence are the phone texts and messages between the woman and Evans. Which mysteriously disappeared for the first trial......

If my experiences are anything to go by the police will now be shitting themselves as unpleasant facts about their conduct have come to light

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"these days who makes up the jury? could any normal working person be able to go on a jury? I only know one person who has been on jury service in 50 years .....

Anyone on the Electoral Roll can be called for jury service. The chances of getting 12 "morons" is actually decidedly slim, if not impossible.

But perhaps we should reserve jury service for scrutinsed and politically sound "clever" people, like they do in, say, North Korea. i know what you mean but it just takes a couple of very strong prejudice people with their own agenda about the charge to sway the thinking.plus i found that unbelievably many were primarily concerned with getting it all over with.

Then there's the "no smoke without fire" lot who know the verdict before the trial even starts. Also ~70% of trials end in a guilty verdict so the administrators are more used to seeing 'guilty' people than 'innocents' which carries other biases with it.

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By *ancadamMan over a year ago

Stockport

"these days who makes up the jury? could any normal working person be able to go on a jury? I only know one person who has been on jury service in 50 years .....

Anyone on the Electoral Roll can be called for jury service. The chances of getting 12 "morons" is actually decidedly slim, if not impossible.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"these days who makes up the jury? could any normal working person be able to go on a jury? I only know one person who has been on jury service in 50 years .....

Anyone on the Electoral Roll can be called for jury service. The chances of getting 12 "morons" is actually decidedly slim, if not impossible.

There's no doubt that the system has it's flaws and I'm sure that your experience is not untypical, but the alternatives to the system are even more unpalatable.

The Evans case is unusual and if there is any evidence of police or institutional corruption then I hope the system reacts accordingly. Equally so, if he is convicted again.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

"A jury consists of 12 ordinary people. There are a lot of thick / prejudice / gullible people in any given population.

If you run enough trials, the probability of getting 12 absolute morons on the jury is a actually scarily common.

It must be awful to have such a dim _iew of humanity. I've served on a jury and believe me its amazing the level of intellect and inability to absorb information some people display.all wrapped up in pre conceptions and imbedded prejudice.sorry but its true."

Maybe its where you live?

actually i'm only joking but my experience of being a Jury foreman in an alleged rape case was the opposite, we had a mixed bag of people builders, teachers, retired, partner of a police officer etc..

i was quite impressed with the way the majority were engaged with the process and scrutinising the evidence..

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By *oo hotCouple over a year ago

North West

"I believe the extra evidence are the phone texts and messages between the woman and Evans. Which mysteriously disappeared for the first trial......

If my experiences are anything to go by the police will now be shitting themselves as unpleasant facts about their conduct have come to light"

Bang on

The Appeal Court have quite rightly dropped this back in the lap of North Wales Police and the local CPS to dig themselves out of a big hole.

All reporting restrictions remain in place, the woman can't be named and the North Wales Prosecutors have to work out a way forward in re-trying a guy who had evidence witheld from his defence at the first trial.

It should make for an interesting outcome and hopefully heads will roll in North Wales. I also reckon that both Evans AND the woman will get significant compensation because of the way this has been so badly mishandled.

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By *ancadamMan over a year ago

Stockport

"these days who makes up the jury? could any normal working person be able to go on a jury? I only know one person who has been on jury service in 50 years .....

Anyone on the Electoral Roll can be called for jury service. The chances of getting 12 "morons" is actually decidedly slim, if not impossible.

There's no doubt that the system has it's flaws and I'm sure that your experience is not untypical, but the alternatives to the system are even more unpalatable.

The Evans case is unusual and if there is any evidence of police or institutional corruption then I hope the system reacts accordingly. Equally so, if he is convicted again. "

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"these days who makes up the jury? could any normal working person be able to go on a jury? I only know one person who has been on jury service in 50 years .....

Anyone on the Electoral Roll can be called for jury service. The chances of getting 12 "morons" is actually decidedly slim, if not impossible.

There's no doubt that the system has it's flaws and I'm sure that your experience is not untypical, but the alternatives to the system are even more unpalatable.

The Evans case is unusual and if there is any evidence of police or institutional corruption then I hope the system reacts accordingly. Equally so, if he is convicted again. "

How do you know it's unusual?

Ched Evans is a relatively rich man who can afford a legal team and has a public profile that makes people take note of his case.

The average convicted criminal is from a poorer background, not brilliantly educated or clever. Ergo, the average crinimal put in the same position as Ched would not have the same means to get their conviction overturned, which means it never would be and they'd be invisible to you.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

worrying if that is the case and sadly not the first time, someone should be held to account if that has happened..

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By *isscheekychopsWoman over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

So who exactly is going to face a re trial?

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By *oo hotCouple over a year ago

North West

"So who exactly is going to face a re trial? "

The Appeal Court has effectively passed the buck back to the CPS and North Wales Police and ordered them to re-try Ched Evans on the same charge.

Tough call for them when the Appeal Court has just quashed his conviction based on new evidence not available to the defence at the time of the first trial.

Two possible options I think:

1) Re-trial goes ahead with all evidence available. This is a risk for CPS bearing in mind what the Appeal Court has just said.

2) CPS make some wriggling manoevre and issue a statement about a re-trial not being in the public interest and a couple of senior police officers and CPS staff resign as sacrificial lambs.

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By *isscheekychopsWoman over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

"So who exactly is going to face a re trial?

The Appeal Court has effectively passed the buck back to the CPS and North Wales Police and ordered them to re-try Ched Evans on the same charge.

Tough call for them when the Appeal Court has just quashed his conviction based on new evidence not available to the defence at the time of the first trial.

Two possible options I think:

1) Re-trial goes ahead with all evidence available. This is a risk for CPS bearing in mind what the Appeal Court has just said.

2) CPS make some wriggling manoevre and issue a statement about a re-trial not being in the public interest and a couple of senior police officers and CPS staff resign as sacrificial lambs."

I'm guilty of not following the case, so don't know what was evidence was provided but what seems to me out of the comments on here is that the girl was some what "brain washed" by agencies involved in the case, but that's me going by the comments on here I'll have to do a bit more research.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"these days who makes up the jury? could any normal working person be able to go on a jury? I only know one person who has been on jury service in 50 years .....

Anyone on the Electoral Roll can be called for jury service. The chances of getting 12 "morons" is actually decidedly slim, if not impossible.

There's no doubt that the system has it's flaws and I'm sure that your experience is not untypical, but the alternatives to the system are even more unpalatable.

The Evans case is unusual and if there is any evidence of police or institutional corruption then I hope the system reacts accordingly. Equally so, if he is convicted again.

How do you know it's unusual?

Ched Evans is a relatively rich man who can afford a legal team and has a public profile that makes people take note of his case.

It's unusual for the very reasons you mention.

I do take your point though. I work with people in the Criminal Justice System; they often have similar complaints about the system. I don't suppose any reform would be balanced in their favour though.

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

There is a ton of vitriol going on in this thread which I find really distasteful bearing in mind the alleged crime...

Some people need to remember that the conviction was not quashed... Which means that where this particular verdict may have been overturned.... He is not innocent of the alleged crime either ...

They are saying certain facts should have been presented at the time that was not

If another jury finds him guilty then what? Are ppl going to still complain?

We still do not know all the new stuff because they are not allowing it to be made public yet... So a lot of people here are jumping the gun a bit

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By *oo hotCouple over a year ago

North West

"There is a ton of vitriol going on in this thread which I find really distasteful bearing in mind the alleged crime...

Some people need to remember that the conviction was not quashed... Which means that where this particular verdict may have been overturned.... He is not innocent of the alleged crime either ...

They are saying certain facts should have been presented at the time that was not

If another jury finds him guilty then what? Are ppl going to still complain?

We still do not know all the new stuff because they are not allowing it to be made public yet... So a lot of people here are jumping the gun a bit "

Uhmmm. It absolutely was quashed and overturned. Headlines from a reputable Newspaper....

"Ched Evans spent two-and-a-half years in jail after he was convicted in 2012 of raping a 19-year-old but three appeal judges on Thursday quashed the conviction after fresh evidence emerged"

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Technically he's back to being innocent until proven guilty.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"There is a ton of vitriol going on in this thread which I find really distasteful bearing in mind the alleged crime...

Some people need to remember that the conviction was not quashed... Which means that where this particular verdict may have been overturned.... He is not innocent of the alleged crime either ...

They are saying certain facts should have been presented at the time that was not

If another jury finds him guilty then what? Are ppl going to still complain?

We still do not know all the new stuff because they are not allowing it to be made public yet... So a lot of people here are jumping the gun a bit

Uhmmm. It absolutely was quashed and overturned. Headlines from a reputable Newspaper....

"Ched Evans spent two-and-a-half years in jail after he was convicted in 2012 of raping a 19-year-old but three appeal judges on Thursday quashed the conviction after fresh evidence emerged""

Are quashed and overturned the same thing then?

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By *anchestercubMan over a year ago

manchester & NI

"There is a ton of vitriol going on in this thread which I find really distasteful bearing in mind the alleged crime...

Some people need to remember that the conviction was not quashed... Which means that where this particular verdict may have been overturned.... He is not innocent of the alleged crime either ...

They are saying certain facts should have been presented at the time that was not

If another jury finds him guilty then what? Are ppl going to still complain?

We still do not know all the new stuff because they are not allowing it to be made public yet... So a lot of people here are jumping the gun a bit

Uhmmm. It absolutely was quashed and overturned. Headlines from a reputable Newspaper....

"Ched Evans spent two-and-a-half years in jail after he was convicted in 2012 of raping a 19-year-old but three appeal judges on Thursday quashed the conviction after fresh evidence emerged"

Are quashed and overturned the same thing then?"

Pretty much - they have overruled the lower court.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Pretty much - they have overruled the lower court. "

They haven't said the lower court was wrong, what they have said is that there is new evidence (obviously favourable to Evans) which needs to be put before the lower court in a fresh trial. I believe that the CPS could decide not to proceed with another trial if they felt the new evidence would exonerate him.

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

"these days who makes up the jury? could any normal working person be able to go on a jury? ....."

Yes.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"There is a ton of vitriol going on in this thread which I find really distasteful bearing in mind the alleged crime...

Some people need to remember that the conviction was not quashed... Which means that where this particular verdict may have been overturned.... He is not innocent of the alleged crime either ...

They are saying certain facts should have been presented at the time that was not

If another jury finds him guilty then what? Are ppl going to still complain?

We still do not know all the new stuff because they are not allowing it to be made public yet... So a lot of people here are jumping the gun a bit

Uhmmm. It absolutely was quashed and overturned. Headlines from a reputable Newspaper....

"Ched Evans spent two-and-a-half years in jail after he was convicted in 2012 of raping a 19-year-old but three appeal judges on Thursday quashed the conviction after fresh evidence emerged"

Are quashed and overturned the same thing then?

Pretty much - they have overruled the lower court. "

Yes I'm being stupid

The point I was trying to make (and failing) is that he hasn't been acquitted.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"A jury consists of 12 ordinary people. There are a lot of thick / prejudice / gullible people in any given population.

If you run enough trials, the probability of getting 12 absolute morons on the jury is a actually scarily common.

The jury is chosen very carefully.

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

"There is a ton of vitriol going on in this thread which I find really distasteful bearing in mind the alleged crime...

...

I must have missed them....but if there are any they could never be as bad as the many threads about him being a dirty low life rapist on here in the past , some comments aimed at what he "did" were vile

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"A jury consists of 12 ordinary people. There are a lot of thick / prejudice / gullible people in any given population.

If you run enough trials, the probability of getting 12 absolute morons on the jury is a actually scarily common.

The jury is chosen very carefully.

How? It's not chosen in the same way they choose a jury in America.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"A jury consists of 12 ordinary people. There are a lot of thick / prejudice / gullible people in any given population.

If you run enough trials, the probability of getting 12 absolute morons on the jury is a actually scarily common.

The jury is chosen very carefully.

No it's not they're picked at random.

I've been on a jury and unfortunately experienced a lot of what people above have referred to - people who weren't interested or were too stupid to understand the process, people who seemed to be pushing their own agenda and people who wanted it all over with so they could go home early and would have agreed with anything if it meant they finished quicker. It was a totally depressing experience. I'm no legal expert by any stretch but I seemed to be in the minority just by taking it seriously and trying to do a good job

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The point I was trying to make (and failing) is that he hasn't been acquitted. "

In fact, his conviction has been overturned. He is now not guilty of the crime unless a retrial finds him guilty.

We don't have a legal concept of "innocent" in English law. It is either guilty or not guilty.

Currently, he is not guilty.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"There is a ton of vitriol going on in this thread which I find really distasteful bearing in mind the alleged crime...

Some people need to remember that the conviction was not quashed... Which means that where this particular verdict may have been overturned.... He is not innocent of the alleged crime either ...

They are saying certain facts should have been presented at the time that was not

If another jury finds him guilty then what? Are ppl going to still complain?

We still do not know all the new stuff because they are not allowing it to be made public yet... So a lot of people here are jumping the gun a bit "

The actual court judgement says that " the court has no choice other than to overturn the verdict as it was "unsound" based on the evidence (at the initial trial)"

The new evidence which it appears could have been withheld from the defence is likely to make it even more unsound. The ball is now with the North Wales CPS to bring what looks like an even more flimsy case against him. It could be very interesting!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"There is a ton of vitriol going on in this thread which I find really distasteful bearing in mind the alleged crime...

Some people need to remember that the conviction was not quashed... Which means that where this particular verdict may have been overturned.... He is not innocent of the alleged crime either ...

They are saying certain facts should have been presented at the time that was not

If another jury finds him guilty then what? Are ppl going to still complain?

We still do not know all the new stuff because they are not allowing it to be made public yet... So a lot of people here are jumping the gun a bit "

Check out the facts Fabio .

The texts and messages on her phone , ( which mysteriously disappeared for the trial ) will obviously back his story up .

With this new evidence coming to light now it's a no brainer .

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"There is a ton of vitriol going on in this thread which I find really distasteful bearing in mind the alleged crime...

Some people need to remember that the conviction was not quashed... Which means that where this particular verdict may have been overturned.... He is not innocent of the alleged crime either ...

They are saying certain facts should have been presented at the time that was not

If another jury finds him guilty then what? Are ppl going to still complain?

We still do not know all the new stuff because they are not allowing it to be made public yet... So a lot of people here are jumping the gun a bit

Check out the facts Fabio .

The texts and messages on her phone , ( which mysteriously disappeared for the trial ) will obviously back his story up .

With this new evidence coming to light now it's a no brainer .

I might get slated for saying this but oh well.

I find use of the word 'rape' distasteful in this context. We have different words for murder and manslaughter, different words for GBH and assault, and frankly think we need a new word for this alleged crime.

I've worked with women from countries that would be described as third world. In return for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, groups of soldiers came to their homes and brutalised them. To give that experience the same name as unforced sex in a hotel room is something I find insulting to women that are attacked and traumatised by strangers.

I know there will be fake outrage from the champaign feminists, but seriously go take a trip outside Europe for a while and see the real world.

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

'I don't know enough about the case, I haven't seen the evidence or transcripts from the court, so I will not comment.'

that was my comment on the original thread, nothing much has changed to that

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By *hetalkingstoveMan over a year ago

London

I might get slated for saying this but oh well.

I know there will be fake outrage from the champaign feminists, but seriously go take a trip outside Europe for a while and see the real world. "

What are you even talking about?

If the woman in this case consented to sex then she wasn't raped. If she didn't, she was. It makes no difference if that happened in a hotel room or in a warzone.

Grading rape is a disgusting idea. It's only 'real rape' if you get beaten up in the process?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I might get slated for saying this but oh well.

I know there will be fake outrage from the champaign feminists, but seriously go take a trip outside Europe for a while and see the real world.

What are you even talking about?

If the woman in this case consented to sex then she wasn't raped. If she didn't, she was. It makes no difference if that happened in a hotel room or in a warzone.

Grading rape is a disgusting idea. It's only 'real rape' if you get beaten up in the process?

We grade every other crime so it's not an outrageous principle and perhaps read about the case before typing your fake outrage; she never said she didn't consent.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I might get slated for saying this but oh well.

I know there will be fake outrage from the champaign feminists, but seriously go take a trip outside Europe for a while and see the real world.

What are you even talking about?

If the woman in this case consented to sex then she wasn't raped. If she didn't, she was. It makes no difference if that happened in a hotel room or in a warzone.

Grading rape is a disgusting idea. It's only 'real rape' if you get beaten up in the process?

We grade every other crime so it's not an outrageous principle and perhaps read about the case before typing your fake outrage; she never said she didn't consent. "

How do we grade EVERY other crime?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I might get slated for saying this but oh well.

I know there will be fake outrage from the champaign feminists, but seriously go take a trip outside Europe for a while and see the real world.

What are you even talking about?

If the woman in this case consented to sex then she wasn't raped. If she didn't, she was. It makes no difference if that happened in a hotel room or in a warzone.

Grading rape is a disgusting idea. It's only 'real rape' if you get beaten up in the process?

We grade every other crime so it's not an outrageous principle and perhaps read about the case before typing your fake outrage; she never said she didn't consent.

How do we grade EVERY other crime? "

Because not every death is a murder, some are murder and some are manslaughter.

Not every hand on a face is assault, some are GBH.

Do I really need to go on...

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By *hetalkingstoveMan over a year ago

London

I might get slated for saying this but oh well.

I know there will be fake outrage from the champaign feminists, but seriously go take a trip outside Europe for a while and see the real world.

What are you even talking about?

If the woman in this case consented to sex then she wasn't raped. If she didn't, she was. It makes no difference if that happened in a hotel room or in a warzone.

Grading rape is a disgusting idea. It's only 'real rape' if you get beaten up in the process?

We grade every other crime so it's not an outrageous principle and perhaps read about the case before typing your fake outrage; she never said she didn't consent. "

I'm not interested in arguing the case.I'm objecting (apparently 'fake' objecting, I don't know how you can tell) to the horrible idea the you have to suffer to a certain level to be worthy of being considered a rape victim.

We actually don't really grade other crimes. If someone has £50 or £5m stolen from them, they are a victim of theft either way.

You seem very angry about this. Why do't you tell us some more women who are 'bitches'?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I might get slated for saying this but oh well.

I know there will be fake outrage from the champaign feminists, but seriously go take a trip outside Europe for a while and see the real world.

What are you even talking about?

If the woman in this case consented to sex then she wasn't raped. If she didn't, she was. It makes no difference if that happened in a hotel room or in a warzone.

Grading rape is a disgusting idea. It's only 'real rape' if you get beaten up in the process?

We grade every other crime so it's not an outrageous principle and perhaps read about the case before typing your fake outrage; she never said she didn't consent.

How do we grade EVERY other crime?

Because not every death is a murder, some are murder and some are manslaughter.

Not every hand on a face is assault, some are GBH.

Do I really need to go on... "

Yeh you do. Murder isn't graded, homicide is separated into different types. Perhaps you should read about CPS offences before going on.

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By *hetalkingstoveMan over a year ago

London

Manslaughter and murder are different crimes.

We have different levels of assault for levels of damage done.

But someone is either raped or they aren't. There's no better or worse rape.

If someone is raped and beaten up, the attacker has committed rape *and* assault

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Manslaughter and murder are different crimes.

We have different levels of assault for levels of damage done.

But someone is either raped or they aren't. There's no better or worse rape.

If someone is raped and beaten up, the attacker has committed rape *and* assault"

Well fucking news flash, this woman wasn't raped but a guy has lost 5 years of his life over it as well as been dragged through the mud by people that took a lot of pride in calling him a "convicted rapist". I guess you think that's fine though as long as it doesn't happen to you.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Manslaughter and murder are different crimes.

We have different levels of assault for levels of damage done.

But someone is either raped or they aren't. There's no better or worse rape.

If someone is raped and beaten up, the attacker has committed rape *and* assault

How come he's facing a retrial? What do you know that the courts don't?

Anyway, that's ignoring the fact that you're wrong about murder.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I might get slated for saying this but oh well.

I know there will be fake outrage from the champaign feminists, but seriously go take a trip outside Europe for a while and see the real world.

What are you even talking about?

If the woman in this case consented to sex then she wasn't raped. If she didn't, she was. It makes no difference if that happened in a hotel room or in a warzone.

Grading rape is a disgusting idea. It's only 'real rape' if you get beaten up in the process?

We grade every other crime so it's not an outrageous principle and perhaps read about the case before typing your fake outrage; she never said she didn't consent. "

....and yet on another thread, you went to great pains to tell me, in your usual locquatious manner, how a tradesman doing a cash deal was exactly the same as multi-million pound tax evasion

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Manslaughter and murder are different crimes.

We have different levels of assault for levels of damage done.

But someone is either raped or they aren't. There's no better or worse rape.

If someone is raped and beaten up, the attacker has committed rape *and* assault

How come he's facing a retrial? What do you know that the courts don't?

Anyway, that's ignoring the fact that you're wrong about murder."

Actually you made my point for me, murder and manslaughter are different crimes even though a person still died!

I'm just saying i'd like a different crime name for people who, by their own admission, may have consented.

You're welcome to disagree.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I might get slated for saying this but oh well.

I know there will be fake outrage from the champaign feminists, but seriously go take a trip outside Europe for a while and see the real world.

What are you even talking about?

If the woman in this case consented to sex then she wasn't raped. If she didn't, she was. It makes no difference if that happened in a hotel room or in a warzone.

Grading rape is a disgusting idea. It's only 'real rape' if you get beaten up in the process?

We grade every other crime so it's not an outrageous principle and perhaps read about the case before typing your fake outrage; she never said she didn't consent.

....and yet on another thread, you went to great pains to tell me, in your usual locquatious manner, how a tradesman doing a cash deal was exactly the same as multi-million pound tax evasion

That comparison would only make sense if all sex was illegal.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Manslaughter and murder are different crimes.

We have different levels of assault for levels of damage done.

But someone is either raped or they aren't. There's no better or worse rape.

If someone is raped and beaten up, the attacker has committed rape *and* assault

How come he's facing a retrial? What do you know that the courts don't?

Anyway, that's ignoring the fact that you're wrong about murder.

Actually you made my point for me, murder and manslaughter are different crimes even though a person still died!

I'm just saying i'd like a different crime name for people who, by their own admission, may have consented.

You're welcome to disagree. "

Er they're not the same crime. Homicide is the act you're talking about, murder isn't graded.

Are you just pathologically avoidant to facts or what?

How can rape, a very definite act, be separated? "You got punched, so you're serious rape, however they didn't so they're less serious rape". Yeh, good idea

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 21/04/16 18:16:33]

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"[Removed by poster at 21/04/16 18:16:33]"

Yes I have. When someone is intoxicated to such a degree, consent simply cannot be given. Have you read the guidelines for prosecution at all?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Manslaughter and murder are different crimes.

We have different levels of assault for levels of damage done.

But someone is either raped or they aren't. There's no better or worse rape.

If someone is raped and beaten up, the attacker has committed rape *and* assault

How come he's facing a retrial? What do you know that the courts don't?

Anyway, that's ignoring the fact that you're wrong about murder.

Actually you made my point for me, murder and manslaughter are different crimes even though a person still died!

I'm just saying i'd like a different crime name for people who, by their own admission, may have consented.

You're welcome to disagree.

Er they're not the same crime. Homicide is the act you're talking about, murder isn't graded.

Are you just pathologically avoidant to facts or what?

How can rape, a very definite act, be separated? "You got punched, so you're serious rape, however they didn't so they're less serious rape". Yeh, good idea

Have you read the case at all?

Rape is about consent. She didn't say that she didn't consent. She may have, she may have not. That is easily seperate from cases where consent was clearly never given.

Let's just wait for the result of the new case and when he's cleared then it's only 5 years lost from a man's prime. A small price to pay...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"[Removed by poster at 21/04/16 18:16:33]

Yes I have. When someone is intoxicated to such a degree, consent simply cannot be given. Have you read the guidelines for prosecution at all?"

Anyway, you seem to have concrete evidence he didn't commit rape despite a retrial being ordered. Why aren't you testifying?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"[Removed by poster at 21/04/16 18:16:33]

Yes I have. When someone is intoxicated to such a degree, consent simply cannot be given. Have you read the guidelines for prosecution at all?

Anyway, you seem to have concrete evidence he didn't commit rape despite a retrial being ordered. Why aren't you testifying?"

Too busy on here chatting to us "bitches" and "morons"

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"[Removed by poster at 21/04/16 18:16:33]

Yes I have. When someone is intoxicated to such a degree, consent simply cannot be given. Have you read the guidelines for prosecution at all?

Anyway, you seem to have concrete evidence he didn't commit rape despite a retrial being ordered. Why aren't you testifying?

Too busy on here chatting to us "bitches" and "morons"

It's always the ill educated who trivialise the experiences of others.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Well that's enough of that for one day. Looking forward to all the backtracking after the retrial.

I'm sure then that the same people will argue it was worth destroying 6 years of a man's life to be sure and it couldn't possibly have been dealt with quicker.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Well that's enough of that for one day. Looking forward to all the backtracking after the retrial.

I'm sure then that the same people will argue it was worth destroying 6 years of a man's life to be sure and it couldn't possibly have been dealt with quicker. "

I'm pretty sure I won't be saying "this rape is worse than that rape" after his retrial. It's just people with disgusting ways of thinking, like you, who want to grade rapes because of a famous footballer's case. Star struck in the worst way.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Well that's enough of that for one day. Looking forward to all the backtracking after the retrial.

I'm sure then that the same people will argue it was worth destroying 6 years of a man's life to be sure and it couldn't possibly have been dealt with quicker.

Do you ever actually read the thread or just enjoying miss quoting people?

If you did then you'd see I called him and idiot earlier so I'm not star struck thanks.

My _iews come from working with people who definately never gave consent so I'm not trivialising anyone's experience.

Finally, I bet if we revealed our education to a neutral third party that I'm better educated than you so don't call me "Ill educated" just because we have different _iews on things.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Well that's enough of that for one day. Looking forward to all the backtracking after the retrial.

I'm sure then that the same people will argue it was worth destroying 6 years of a man's life to be sure and it couldn't possibly have been dealt with quicker.

Do you ever actually read the thread or just enjoying miss quoting people?

If you did then you'd see I called him and idiot earlier so I'm not star struck thanks.

My _iews come from working with people who definately never gave consent so I'm not trivialising anyone's experience.

Finally, I bet if we revealed our education to a neutral third party that I'm better educated than you so don't call me "Ill educated" just because we have different _iews on things. "

What have I misquoted? You don't think this case is rape, am I wrong? You're definitely trivialising people who have been raped seeing as you don't want to call this a rape as it doesn't fit in with your ideal of rape. Bizarre and mental - completely lacking in empathy.

You're clearly ill educated seeing as you don't know the difference between murder being graded or not, and that you say all crimes are graded (they're not).

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By *oo hotCouple over a year ago

North West

"[Removed by poster at 21/04/16 18:16:33]

Yes I have. When someone is intoxicated to such a degree, consent simply cannot be given. Have you read the guidelines for prosecution at all?

Anyway, you seem to have concrete evidence he didn't commit rape despite a retrial being ordered. Why aren't you testifying?"

Have you thought this through?....

The Appeal Court has just quashed his conviction based on evidence not submitted at the original trial. The new (re) trial WILL have this evidence.

The CPS will have to come up with something pretty special to swing it.

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

OK lets not get personal, it is just a discussion

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"[Removed by poster at 21/04/16 18:16:33]

Yes I have. When someone is intoxicated to such a degree, consent simply cannot be given. Have you read the guidelines for prosecution at all?

Anyway, you seem to have concrete evidence he didn't commit rape despite a retrial being ordered. Why aren't you testifying?

Have you thought this through?....

The Appeal Court has just quashed his conviction based on evidence not submitted at the original trial. The new (re) trial WILL have this evidence.

The CPS will have to come up with something pretty special to swing it."

No. The court has decided that there is fresh evidence to consider. We do not know what that is. The CPS will consider and make the decision. You cannot predict the likelihood as you have no knowledge of the fresh evidence.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"[Removed by poster at 21/04/16 18:16:33]

Yes I have. When someone is intoxicated to such a degree, consent simply cannot be given. Have you read the guidelines for prosecution at all?

Anyway, you seem to have concrete evidence he didn't commit rape despite a retrial being ordered. Why aren't you testifying?

Have you thought this through?....

The Appeal Court has just quashed his conviction based on evidence not submitted at the original trial. The new (re) trial WILL have this evidence.

The CPS will have to come up with something pretty special to swing it."

My point is that rape is rape, and yes I have thought that through. I am not commenting on Ched Evans' innocence.

New evidence does not mean innocent nor guilty. It's a new trial. You can't possibly know otherwise.

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By *ancadamMan over a year ago

Stockport

"[Removed by poster at 21/04/16 18:16:33]

Yes I have. When someone is intoxicated to such a degree, consent simply cannot be given. Have you read the guidelines for prosecution at all?

Anyway, you seem to have concrete evidence he didn't commit rape despite a retrial being ordered. Why aren't you testifying?

Have you thought this through?....

The Appeal Court has just quashed his conviction based on evidence not submitted at the original trial. The new (re) trial WILL have this evidence.

The CPS will have to come up with something pretty special to swing it.

My point is that rape is rape, and yes I have thought that through. I am not commenting on Ched Evans' innocence.

New evidence does not mean innocent nor guilty. It's a new trial. You can't possibly know otherwise. "
with respect i think the poster was alluding to the facts that the young woman involved did not bring the charge of rape.she only reported her phone missing.following that the police inter_iewed her about the circumstances and then inter_iewed her Evans and his co accused who was tried and found not guilty in spite of having admitted sexual intercourse with the girl before or with Evans.following the police inter_iew both were charged.the woman claimed not to recall the event.the police brought the charge.the poster is alluding to the fact rape wasn't claimed by the woman,but the jury found Evans guilty as there didn't seem to be consent with him.its a tricky one but those of us who have followed the detail of the case have expected this result.there is also other evidence which apparently involves Facebook comments which were deleted which may throw light on motives.none of us will know till the retrial. he is as yet not guilty .....not innocent....until this concludes.as for the angry exchanges on this post....thank god we are all passionate about the terrible ugly horrifying crime of rape which is a sign of our decency and civilisation.

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By *oo hotCouple over a year ago

North West

Update...

A Hearing at Mold Crown Court has been set on May 27th to make arrangements for the re-trial.

Question is... Will the CPS offer up a new case bearing in mind the evidence that is now on the table that caused the CCRC to quash Evans first conviction?

From a purely legal perspective, I think this is such an intruiging case and what on earth will happen to him and the woman if the CPS decide not to offer up a case?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Update...

A Hearing at Mold Crown Court has been set on May 27th to make arrangements for the re-trial.

Question is... Will the CPS offer up a new case bearing in mind the evidence that is now on the table that caused the CCRC to quash Evans first conviction?

From a purely legal perspective, I think this is such an intruiging case and what on earth will happen to him and the woman if the CPS decide not to offer up a case?"

That'll be a media scrum on my doorstep then

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"Update...

A Hearing at Mold Crown Court has been set on May 27th to make arrangements for the re-trial.

Question is... Will the CPS offer up a new case bearing in mind the evidence that is now on the table that caused the CCRC to quash Evans first conviction?

From a purely legal perspective, I think this is such an intruiging case and what on earth will happen to him and the woman if the CPS decide not to offer up a case?"

i think you would see some sort of private prosecution by the girl again ched, where the burden of proof is lower... since she is the only person in the uk ever to be granted witness protection with is not linked to murder charge, and that not being respected by some of his big money backers.....you could see someone footing the bill and having a huge money claim for distress at least....

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Update...

A Hearing at Mold Crown Court has been set on May 27th to make arrangements for the re-trial.

Question is... Will the CPS offer up a new case bearing in mind the evidence that is now on the table that caused the CCRC to quash Evans first conviction?

From a purely legal perspective, I think this is such an intruiging case and what on earth will happen to him and the woman if the CPS decide not to offer up a case?

A prosecution is a criminal proceeding where the burden of proof is beyond reasonable doubt.

She could bring a civil suit for damages where the burden of proof is on the balance of probabilities.

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By *atietvsheffTV/TS over a year ago

Sheffield

"When he was convicted I was quite vociferous in saying it was a joke on these very forums .

I got proper chastised by other forumites but stood by my comments .

Any reason minded person could see she was hell bent on getting him done , maybe because she regretted her part in it , maybe because he saw her as an easy shag , who knows ?

But thank goodness we have a legal system that can put right a wrong .

For the small price of 5 years of your life it can.

I hope that bitch Jessica Ennis-Hill feels good about herself now. "

I was stood listening to the club chairman the day after he was convicted while he spoke with an acquaintance of mine, the club was 90% sure he would be acquitted based on the evidence but the mobile phone footage albeit not a good thing to be doing filming and also the texts etc were not allowed for technical reasons. The woman's father who if you know about the case is high profile in football and was the one who would not let it drop, and could certainly afford the legal fees if needed. As for a retrial, if the appeal court found the original verdict unsafe based upon evidence not allowed at the original trial then when it comes to the CPS deciding to actually arrange another trial at taxpayers expenses makes no sense at all, even if he is found guilty again he has served his time inside and on licence so other than placing him on the sex offenders register what good will it do as he has done his time in jail. TheCPS or North Wales police might well fear the financial impact of dropping the case as Ched will go for wrongful imprisonment.

As for Jess Ennis, she should keep her fucking nose out of Sheffield United, she doesn't go to the ground and is only a supporter by preference to the 2 teams in Sheffield, she was recognised by the club for her Olympic achievements and they names a stand after her and in doing so lost £100000's of sponsorship money in naming rights for that stand, as her name was on the stand she said she didn't want to be associated with Sheff U if they took Evans back, her choice, and now the club have taken her name off the stand, but she should understand that when he was released he had done his time and had a right to integrate into society as she would have wanted the chance to do if she had done something wrong, people in glasshouses shouldn't throw stones. All she was interested in was the potential that her sponsors would not support her financially if she was loosely associated with Sheff U.

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By *oo hotCouple over a year ago

North West

Why against Ched Evans? Surely it would make more sense for her to take a lawsuit against the CPS and North Wales Police for leading her down a path that has become a disaster for her. AFAIK she did not make the claim that she was raped, that claim was made by NWP and the CPS and they have much deeper pockets than a footballer who has been out of work for rather a long time. She rightly will feel very, very aggreived at how all of this has turned out and she was led by the hand by people who should have known better.

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