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Shame on Stoke Gifford parish council
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They have voted 6:4 to charge parkrun to hold their weekly free run every Saturday.
The whole ethos of parkrun is that it is free and encourages all people of all abilities to get up and walk/run 5k on a Saturday morning.
They state that because parkrun have paid directors and sponsors etc they don't see why they shouldn't pay. That sponsorship pays for all the technology, infrastructure, publicity etc of the movement.
It seems a shame that their narrow mindedness means that parkrun will now have to stop holding the event there.
Grrrrr |
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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
Other councils were looking at charging for running and sporting activities in their parks. They held off due to public opposition but after this it may be back on the table.
The public health argument needs to be aired more.
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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"Can't people just get together and run round the park for free?"
They can, but at what point will the local authority deem the numbers running together to be chargeable? Two is ok but four costs £x?
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By *olgateMan
over a year ago
on the road to nowhere in particular |
Do park run earn money from the event? If so they should pay some of the costs. This is not a unique situation. Camden council have been charging private personal trainers to use Primrose Hill park for quite a while. Parks should not be used for commercial gain |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Can't people just get together and run round the park for free?
They can, but at what point will the local authority deem the numbers running together to be chargeable? Two is ok but four costs £x?
"
Worth playing the game to make a protest.
Oh we all just happen to be running the same route as individuals. |
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"
They state that because parkrun have paid directors and sponsors etc they don't see why they shouldn't pay. That sponsorship pays for all the technology, infrastructure, publicity etc of the movement. parkrun will now have to stop holding the event there.
"
Wasn't this the ultimate theory behind George's omnishambles budget?
That too many charities are paying huge sums of money to the Directors, often as a tax avoidance scheme, duplicating work done more efficiently by others? I know the charity I worked for everyone gave their time for free because it was something we truely believed in.
What opened my eyes was the letter signed by all the charities such as "joe bloggs of the joe bloggs foundation, money spent on charitable causes: 15% 
Maybe the council's hope is that if has a public health implication, the local heath authority will chip in?
Mr ddc |
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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"
They state that because parkrun have paid directors and sponsors etc they don't see why they shouldn't pay. That sponsorship pays for all the technology, infrastructure, publicity etc of the movement. parkrun will now have to stop holding the event there.
Wasn't this the ultimate theory behind George's omnishambles budget?
That too many charities are paying huge sums of money to the Directors, often as a tax avoidance scheme, duplicating work done more efficiently by others? I know the charity I worked for everyone gave their time for free because it was something we truely believed in.
What opened my eyes was the letter signed by all the charities such as "joe bloggs of the joe bloggs foundation, money spent on charitable causes: 15%
Maybe the council's hope is that if has a public health implication, the local heath authority will chip in?
Mr ddc"
Most charities operate at £10k and under. There is little tax avoidance in that.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Bloody disgusting in my opinion.
Council probably saw it as a cash cow a way of screwing money out of people who are just trying to get fit and healthy.
They just don't get the whole concept of park run at all.
Shame on them. |
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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"This is something I actually work in and it is so important but hard to get councillors annd CCG's to see the big picture and how much more inactivity will cost in comparison!! Frustrating"
The problem is that by pushing all of the bad news onto local authority tables (this government has been very good at that) they have to look at money in and money out, as you know. The real problem is that no one will ever look at it holistically and always chop it up so that health and social care sits over here, housing over there, parks and rec in this pot etc.
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"
Mr ddc
Most charities operate at £10k and under. There is little tax avoidance in that.
"
The implication was that Joe Bloggs, a multimillionaire, can pay a large sum of his salary to his charity, and claim the tax back. The charity directors are his spouse and children who can draw a wage, but keep it low enough to keep them below the upper tax bracket. It's a very clever way of passing your income tax-free onto your family.
But I admit to being a bit weird, I understood the cornish pasty argument too
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By *olgateMan
over a year ago
on the road to nowhere in particular |
I caught the discussion on Jeremy Vine today. Parkrun is not a charity but a limited company that claims to operate on a not for profit basis. As such they are being treated the same as any other organisation whether it is a football team, cricket club or whatever.
The council has told Parkrun that the facilities provided by the council ie: toilets, upkeep of paths, litter bins need to be provided and Parkrun as an organisation using the park should contribute towards that.
The council has also told Parkrun that they can apply for a grant to cover these costs. For some unknown reason Parkrun seem to be reluctant to do this. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Do park run earn money from the event? If so they should pay some of the costs. This is not a unique situation. Camden council have been charging private personal trainers to use Primrose Hill park for quite a while. Parks should not be used for commercial gain"
It's a non profit charitable organisation, run by local volunteers.
Often the costs of setting up the park run in the first place are met by the local council.
 |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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".
They state that because parkrun have paid directors and sponsors etc they don't see why they shouldn't pay. That sponsorship pays for all the technology, infrastructure, publicity etc of the movement.
Grrrrr"
The council are spot on, no Grrrr required
Park Run is a business there is no disputing it
If you listen to BBC Jeremy vine on iplayer or radio4 on iplayer today you will here an inept debate on this,
The council are charging park run, exactly the same as they charge cricket clubs & football clubs, they are not charging any individual that wants to run on their own
anybody can walk or run on own but Park Run is no question a business and as such has to pay |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Do park run earn money from the event? If so they should pay some of the costs. This is not a unique situation. Camden council have been charging private personal trainers to use Primrose Hill park for quite a while. Parks should not be used for commercial gain
It's a non profit charitable organisation, run by local volunteers.
Often the costs of setting up the park run in the first place are met by the local council.
"
It is not a charity. It does claim to be a not-for-profit organisation. It is a limited company. It accepts donations and does try to get funding from local authorities where possible. |
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".
They state that because parkrun have paid directors and sponsors etc they don't see why they shouldn't pay. That sponsorship pays for all the technology, infrastructure, publicity etc of the movement.
Grrrrr
The council are spot on, no Grrrr required
Park Run is a business there is no disputing it
If you listen to BBC Jeremy vine on iplayer or radio4 on iplayer today you will here an inept debate on this,
The council are charging park run, exactly the same as they charge cricket clubs & football clubs, they are not charging any individual that wants to run on their own
anybody can walk or run on own but Park Run is no question a business and as such has to pay"
I stand by my Grrrrr
Parkrun do not make profit from what they do. Parkrun is not a club, no subs are paid to take part unlike cricket or football clubs. If all 300 participants ran on their own through the park the same wear and tear would occur on the paths yet they would have to find the funding to maintain them from somewhere else so their argument is invalid.
Parkrun changes lives, no doubt about it and a large part if that is because it is free. If the parish council had simply put collection boxes out and asked users to donate towards the up keep I bet they would have had more success in raising funds.
My local parkrun works very successfully with the local council. The volunteers that turn up early each week to set the course out have set about minor repairs to the equipment they use, they help with keeping the drainage system in the woods clear and they have raised money to provide a defib machine on site for all Park users to benefit from should they need it.
At no point have they substantiated their claims of increased maintenance costs and I'd wager that is because they can't. |
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"I caught the discussion on Jeremy Vine today. Parkrun is not a charity but a limited company that claims to operate on a not for profit basis. As such they are being treated the same as any other organisation whether it is a football team, cricket club or whatever.
The council has told Parkrun that the facilities provided by the council ie: toilets, upkeep of paths, litter bins need to be provided and Parkrun as an organisation using the park should contribute towards that.
The council has also told Parkrun that they can apply for a grant to cover these costs. For some unknown reason Parkrun seem to be reluctant to do this. "
They are not reluctant. They have offered to help the parish council make funding applications but they have refused that help. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I imagine an appeal will go in? Can Park Run appeal against the decision? Giving their reasoning?
We have ladies running groups here who use the footpaths, roads and off road to run. They don't get charged for wear and tear on those and I'm glad they don't. It's a similar concept to park run though.
Plus personal trainers use the outdoor gym in the park for Boot Camp and personal sessions for free.
Sarah |
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"They have voted 6:4 to charge parkrun to hold their weekly free run every Saturday.
The whole ethos of parkrun is that it is free and encourages all people of all abilities to get up and walk/run 5k on a Saturday morning.
They state that because parkrun have paid directors and sponsors etc they don't see why they shouldn't pay. That sponsorship pays for all the technology, infrastructure, publicity etc of the movement.
It seems a shame that their narrow mindedness means that parkrun will now have to stop holding the event there.
Grrrrr"
We have to pay a obscene amount of money to hire football pitches and that keeps kids healthy and junior football clubs haven't got paid directors
I didn't realise the directors were paid, if that's the case they should pay
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By *olgateMan
over a year ago
on the road to nowhere in particular |
Parkrun stated today that they are not a charity.
The council have told them they will help in every way including filling the grant application in for them. All they need to do is sign it. They haven't done that. Why don't you ask the limited company called Parkrun why they are so reluctant to apply for the grant that will solve a problem of their making?
Ps: please don't call them a charity, it dilutes the impact of genuine charities and the good work they do. |
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"I imagine an appeal will go in? Can Park Run appeal against the decision? Giving their reasoning?
We have ladies running groups here who use the footpaths, roads and off road to run. They don't get charged for wear and tear on those and I'm glad they don't. It's a similar concept to park run though.
Plus personal trainers use the outdoor gym in the park for Boot Camp and personal sessions for free.
Sarah "
I would be suprised of the boot camps get to use the park for free if the LA know they are there. Normally an annual fee to run organised activities in the parks |
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"Parkrun stated today that they are not a charity.
The council have told them they will help in every way including filling the grant application in for them. All they need to do is sign it. They haven't done that. Why don't you ask the limited company called Parkrun why they are so reluctant to apply for the grant that will solve a problem of their making?
Ps: please don't call them a charity, it dilutes the impact of genuine charities and the good work they do. "
It says why on the link I posted....why don't you go and read that? |
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"Can't people just get together and run round the park for free?
They can, but at what point will the local authority deem the numbers running together to be chargeable? Two is ok but four costs £x?
"
Sure they've said they don't mind people running in the park it's the fact they have paid directors. Fund raisers and sponsors I think |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Parkrun stated today that they are not a charity.
The council have told them they will help in every way including filling the grant application in for them. All they need to do is sign it. They haven't done that. Why don't you ask the limited company called Parkrun why they are so reluctant to apply for the grant that will solve a problem of their making?
Ps: please don't call them a charity, it dilutes the impact of genuine charities and the good work they do. "
It sounds like they all need to sit around a table and discuss it. Would be much easier than waging war on each other. |
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"Can't people just get together and run round the park for free?
They can, but at what point will the local authority deem the numbers running together to be chargeable? Two is ok but four costs £x?
"
Isn't the deciding factor whether anyone is doing it as a business? Technically I'm a not-for-profit organisation once you exclude my (the director) salary.
Don't Hyde Park charge fitness instructors even if they only have 1 client a week (on a sliding-scale up to some quite eye-watering sums)?
Mr ddc |
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By *i1971Man
over a year ago
Cornwall |
Must confess to be confused here. OK, there may well be paid directors etc at Parkrun BUT park runs are free to take part and are run by local volunteers.
On that basis, any other group of volunteers could do exactly the same run, with the same numbers attending, and get it for free? Crazy or what?
Also, would be interesting to know how much of a grant it is they want Parkrun to apply for. If it was the whole £60, it's just a case of some narrow minded Councillors throwing their toys out the pram |
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By *umpkinMan
over a year ago
near the sounds of the wimborne quarter jack! |
"Do park run earn money from the event? If so they should pay some of the costs. This is not a unique situation. Camden council have been charging private personal trainers to use Primrose Hill park for quite a while. Parks should not be used for commercial gain"
These parks don`t run themselves!!! They actually cost a fortune to keep up together. If there`s a bowling rink provided, the bowling club pay a pretty tidy sum to keep it up to standard, you`re looking at several hundred pounds a set for football posts, nets aren`t far behind and with the average cost of a large tractor and mower set up with all the rest of the odd machinery needed to keep standards up costing the thick end of £50,000+ plus the wages of someone to do the work plus overtime for weekends, locking up and unlocking, why shouldn`t the council charge if someone else is making profits? People who play organised football games have to pay for pitches and they more than likely play for fun! |
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By *umpkinMan
over a year ago
near the sounds of the wimborne quarter jack! |
"Must confess to be confused here. OK, there may well be paid directors etc at Parkrun BUT park runs are free to take part and are run by local volunteers.
On that basis, any other group of volunteers could do exactly the same run, with the same numbers attending, and get it for free? Crazy or what?
Also, would be interesting to know how much of a grant it is they want Parkrun to apply for. If it was the whole £60, it's just a case of some narrow minded Councillors throwing their toys out the pram"
See my comment above about football matches and you`ll see it`s no different! |
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I work for a council.
I also parkrun.
Each local parkrun is run by volunteers.
National parkrun is the 'business'. The sponsors are mainly fitness companies who provide the free 'milestone' t-shirt (a free t-shirt after 10 runs for under-16s, 50, 100 & 250 for adults)
It seems to me that if the parish start charging, the park will no longer be exempt from non-domestic rates.
Also, if it is such an burden on the hosts, why do other organisations such as the National Trust encourage Parkrun to start free runs at their location? |
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By *i1971Man
over a year ago
Cornwall |
"I work for a council.
I also parkrun.
Each local parkrun is run by volunteers.
National parkrun is the 'business'. The sponsors are mainly fitness companies who provide the free 'milestone' t-shirt (a free t-shirt after 10 runs for under-16s, 50, 100 & 250 for adults)
It seems to me that if the parish start charging, the park will no longer be exempt from non-domestic rates.
Also, if it is such an burden on the hosts, why do other organisations such as the National Trust encourage Parkrun to start free runs at their location?"
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I personally think that the council didn't want to lose face by backing down after underestimating the reaction this would get.
As establishing a Park Run takes many moths and is very much in conjunction with the local authority I do wonder what has happened to change their view.
Parkrun is a not for profit organisation, all events are organised by volunteers, everyone runs for free, it is community focussed, totally inclusive and even encourages people to not drive to events and supports local businesses. It;s sad that this is seen as a potential cash cow |
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"Do park run earn money from the event? "
No.
Parkrun is free.
You register for free on the website. You can turn up at any parkrun event anywhere, run, and get your barcode scanned.
Only people making money are the hosts I.e. The council or whoever owns the park, from car parking fees and cafe sales. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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".
They state that because parkrun have paid directors and sponsors etc they don't see why they shouldn't pay. That sponsorship pays for all the technology, infrastructure, publicity etc of the movement.
Grrrrr
The council are spot on, no Grrrr required
Park Run is a business there is no disputing it
If you listen to BBC Jeremy vine on iplayer or radio4 on iplayer today you will here an inept debate on this,
The council are charging park run, exactly the same as they charge cricket clubs & football clubs, they are not charging any individual that wants to run on their own
anybody can walk or run on own but Park Run is no question a business and as such has to pay
These parks don`t run themselves!!! They actually cost a fortune to keep up together. If there`s a bowling rink provided, the bowling club pay a pretty tidy sum to keep it up to standard, you`re looking at several hundred pounds a set for football posts, nets aren`t far behind and with the average cost of a large tractor and mower set up with all the rest of the odd machinery needed to keep standards up costing the thick end of £50,000+ plus the wages of someone to do the work plus overtime for weekends, locking up and unlocking, why shouldn`t the council charge if someone else is making profits? People who play organised football games have to pay for pitches and they more than likely play for fun!
.
Parkrun stated today that they are not a charity.
The council have told them they will help in every way including filling the grant application in for them. All they need to do is sign it. They haven't done that. Why don't you ask the limited company called Parkrun why they are so reluctant to apply for the grant that will solve a problem of their making?
Ps: please don't call them a charity, it dilutes the impact of genuine charities and the good work they do
"
you will find the answers in all the above, you just need to read
Be aware Park Run not only pay directors, they also pay over 12 other staff in their business, did you read the last word? business, not charity, business.
If you are unclear on any of the above If you listen to BBC Jeremy vine on iplayer or radio4 on iplayer today you will here an inept debate on this where Park run state openly they are a business.
and like any other business they should pay |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The key words here are indeed not for profit!
The idea of familes and everyone having a run on a weekend is a great idea and should be continued.
The only problem is that they state they are a non profit organisation not a charity the meaning is that someone somewhere is getting paid so it is a business.
I do think it should be continued and supported by the local councils and ewhy not be run by the local councils? after all we all pay for the parks out of council tax or at least thats what the money is suppossed to be spent on.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Do park run earn money from the event? If so they should pay some of the costs. This is not a unique situation. Camden council have been charging private personal trainers to use Primrose Hill park for quite a while. Parks should not be used for commercial gain"
Parkrun are a cost neutral organisation. They do not generate a profit stream. Anything revenue they receive is directly pumped back onto the running on pun intended) of the organisation.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The key words here are indeed not for profit!
The idea of familes and everyone having a run on a weekend is a great idea and should be continued.
The only problem is that they state they are a non profit organisation not a charity the meaning is that someone somewhere is getting paid so it is a business.
I do think it should be continued and supported by the local councils and ewhy not be run by the local councils? after all we all pay for the parks out of council tax or at least thats what the money is suppossed to be spent on.
"
What is wrong with you guys????
listen to the debates on iplayer, the council openly agrees everyone can walk, run, jump, skip for free but the Business has to pay, same as cricket clubs, football clubs and other organisations
listen to the debates before putting in your 2 pence worth |
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"The key words here are indeed not for profit!
The idea of familes and everyone having a run on a weekend is a great idea and should be continued.
The only problem is that they state they are a non profit organisation not a charity the meaning is that someone somewhere is getting paid so it is a business.
I do think it should be continued and supported by the local councils and ewhy not be run by the local councils? after all we all pay for the parks out of council tax or at least thats what the money is suppossed to be spent on.
What is wrong with you guys????
listen to the debates on iplayer, the council openly agrees everyone can walk, run, jump, skip for free but the Business has to pay, same as cricket clubs, football clubs and other organisations
listen to the debates before putting in your 2 pence worth"
There is nothing wrong with any of us we just don't agree without it the parish council.
As mentioned by someone else, football clubs and cricket clubs require much more maintenance on parks such as grass cutting, football posts etc plus they charge their participants to play, parkrun doesn't.
The support behind parkrun is massive and I hope that the parish council realise how much it will lose when the run eventually moves somewhere else where they realise the potential. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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But what will it lose? They don't pay 
Parish councils have really tiny budgets. Those are being stretched like everywhere else. It stands to reason that 300 people turning up to do an organised event is leading to more of a maintenance requirement to keep the park suitable for everyone else to use too because it's not just there for runners.
I get that the point of Parkrun is it's free, but would people doing it really begrudge paying say £1 a time of it would help keep it going? |
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By *umpkinMan
over a year ago
near the sounds of the wimborne quarter jack! |
"But what will it lose? They don't pay
Parish councils have really tiny budgets. Those are being stretched like everywhere else. It stands to reason that 300 people turning up to do an organised event is leading to more of a maintenance requirement to keep the park suitable for everyone else to use too because it's not just there for runners.
I get that the point of Parkrun is it's free, but would people doing it really begrudge paying say £1 a time of it would help keep it going? "
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By *umpkinMan
over a year ago
near the sounds of the wimborne quarter jack! |
"The key words here are indeed not for profit!
The idea of familes and everyone having a run on a weekend is a great idea and should be continued.
The only problem is that they state they are a non profit organisation not a charity the meaning is that someone somewhere is getting paid so it is a business.
I do think it should be continued and supported by the local councils and ewhy not be run by the local councils? after all we all pay for the parks out of council tax or at least thats what the money is suppossed to be spent on.
What is wrong with you guys????
listen to the debates on iplayer, the council openly agrees everyone can walk, run, jump, skip for free but the Business has to pay, same as cricket clubs, football clubs and other organisations
listen to the debates before putting in your 2 pence worth
There is nothing wrong with any of us we just don't agree without it the parish council.
As mentioned by someone else, football clubs and cricket clubs require much more maintenance on parks such as grass cutting, football posts etc plus they charge their participants to play, parkrun doesn't.
The support behind parkrun is massive and I hope that the parish council realise how much it will lose when the run eventually moves somewhere else where they realise the potential. "
And you`d be surprised how much wear "a few" runners can do to a playing field, especially if you get a shower of rain. Hopefully all the participents and spectators will be taking their rubbish away with them? I think not!! Rubbish is expensive to dispose of commercially with is what any council will be charged. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"But what will it lose? They don't pay
Parish councils have really tiny budgets. Those are being stretched like everywhere else. It stands to reason that 300 people turning up to do an organised event is leading to more of a maintenance requirement to keep the park suitable for everyone else to use too because it's not just there for runners.
I get that the point of Parkrun is it's free, but would people doing it really begrudge paying say £1 a time of it would help keep it going?
"
What hasn't been mentioned is that a lot of the people organising these events actually help to maintain the parks.
They litter pick, clean up dog shit, help maintain the paths and trails and clean out drainage ditches and more.
They put a lot more into the park than they take out |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"But what will it lose? They don't pay
Parish councils have really tiny budgets. Those are being stretched like everywhere else. It stands to reason that 300 people turning up to do an organised event is leading to more of a maintenance requirement to keep the park suitable for everyone else to use too because it's not just there for runners.
I get that the point of Parkrun is it's free, but would people doing it really begrudge paying say £1 a time of it would help keep it going?
What hasn't been mentioned is that a lot of the people organising these events actually help to maintain the parks.
They litter pick, clean up dog shit, help maintain the paths and trails and clean out drainage ditches and more.
They put a lot more into the park than they take out "
If that was true in this case then it would make no sense for the parish council to be seeking payment then |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I can see both sides of the argument. the run is a victim of its own success, 50 people running through a park once a day in groups of 1 or 2 have little impact on how the ark is used by others. 500 running together every week dominate the park, stop others using it, and have even got angry with mothers pushing their pushchairs on the path for getting in the way.
Once the organisers perceive ownership of a public space they lose the right to use it for free, had they moved to a different park each weekend, or kept the numbers down so as not to dominate the space then the issue need never have arisen.
We suffer the same in events I organise, numbers are 500 to 1000, but we make sure it never happens in the same place more than once a year, that way we remain a novelty and always welcomed back. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Increase parking fees as you can bet your bottom dollar all those people attending will drive there.
No one who takes fitness serious will be there as they dont need motivation |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Increase parking fees as you can bet your bottom dollar all those people attending will drive there.
No one who takes fitness serious will be there as they dont need motivation"
You do know that there are olympiad thst occasionally turn up at Park Run? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Increase parking fees as you can bet your bottom dollar all those people attending will drive there.
No one who takes fitness serious will be there as they dont need motivation
You do know that there are olympiad thst occasionally turn up at Park Run?"
Im sure there will be, any publicity is good publicity
(attention seeker) |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Why don't all the runners just go and run through the park one at a time just to make the point that wether they run singly or collectively it makes no odds..
I'm sure the police would love to be called out week after week by the council to help with enforcing the ridiculous stance they've taken.
I'd be up for it because I think this is probably going to be just the start of loads of this bullshit.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Increase parking fees as you can bet your bottom dollar all those people attending will drive there.
No one who takes fitness serious will be there as they dont need motivation"
Seeing as the parkrun record is less than 13 minutes for the 5 km ..... you're talking out of your (.) |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Seeing as the parkrun record is less than 13 minutes for the 5 km ..... you're talking out of your (.)"
There are well over 52 parks in Bristol, why not run in a different one each week, spread the message to more people, and have no traceable damage to be charged for?
If they really could be in and out of the park in 20 minutes or so then they would not be denying it to others as they currently do.
Personally I disagree with charging people to use the parks. But I can totally see where the council and other public opposition is coming from.
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By *olgateMan
over a year ago
on the road to nowhere in particular |
I find it ironic that companies are castigated for tax evasion, yet people are up in arms about them being expected to pay for facilities that they use. I wonder how much tax Parkrun pay? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I find it ironic that companies are castigated for tax evasion, yet people are up in arms about them being expected to pay for facilities that they use. I wonder how much tax Parkrun pay?"
Does not matter dude it has an "ethos"
I'm with the Council on this one. If they have offered help then why not take it and carry on running.
Don't get me wrong though it's a wonderful thing to get people fit. |
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"But what will it lose? They don't pay
Parish councils have really tiny budgets. Those are being stretched like everywhere else. It stands to reason that 300 people turning up to do an organised event is leading to more of a maintenance requirement to keep the park suitable for everyone else to use too because it's not just there for runners.
I get that the point of Parkrun is it's free, but would people doing it really begrudge paying say £1 a time of it would help keep it going?
What hasn't been mentioned is that a lot of the people organising these events actually help to maintain the parks.
They litter pick, clean up dog shit, help maintain the paths and trails and clean out drainage ditches and more.
They put a lot more into the park than they take out
If that was true in this case then it would make no sense for the parish council to be seeking payment then "
As I said before. My local parkrun work very closely with the local council. They use their wheelbarrows etc to setup and gave made repairs to them where necessary. They clear the paths of debris which benefits alk Park users, they clear and drainage pipes they see are blocked, there is not a spot of rubbish left on site when they leave,in fact at any parkrun I've been to I have seen no rubbish left behind....im usually last so I'm sure I'd spit it if there was.
They have raised more than enough money to buy a defib for the whole package to use, not just runners. If the usual course, which runs around a field, is too muddy we use an alternative route so as not toimpact on the field.
Every parkrun must have a cafe on site and runners are encouraged to stay and buy coffee,cake,food etc after their run. The management have admitted that Saturday morning is now their busiest period and enjoy the parkrun being there.
It is more than just a run. It is a community event. The number of people who Marshall and never run is very high. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"They have voted 6:4 to charge parkrun to hold their weekly free run every Saturday.
The whole ethos of parkrun is that it is free and encourages all people of all abilities to get up and walk/run 5k on a Saturday morning.
They state that because parkrun have paid directors and sponsors etc they don't see why they shouldn't pay. That sponsorship pays for all the technology, infrastructure, publicity etc of the movement.
It seems a shame that their narrow mindedness means that parkrun will now have to stop holding the event there.
Grrrrr"
I was watching this on the news yesterday its a piss take if you ask me, they have just seen a way of making money out of people going for a run, personally I don't agree with it, our council tax already pays for upkeep of parks people now have to pay to run in a group in them |
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"Increase parking fees as you can bet your bottom dollar all those people attending will drive there.
No one who takes fitness serious will be there as they dont need motivation"
So because I drive the 16 miles it takes to get to my favourite parkrun I don't take my fitness seriously?! Best cancel my gym membership, tell the pei's at work I won't be down the gym at work again,tell my lunch time running buddy I can't play any more and cancel my place in the half marathon I'm running next week cos....you know....im just not taking it seriously enough  |
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"Increase parking fees as you can bet your bottom dollar all those people attending will drive there.
No one who takes fitness serious will be there as they dont need motivation
You do know that there are olympiad thst occasionally turn up at Park Run?
Im sure there will be, any publicity is good publicity
(attention seeker)"
Yeah...cos they're always in the news when they run it....you really are clutching at straws |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Can't people just get together and run round the park for free?"
Yes so long as it's not an organised run, you can go and run in their park with 20 family members for free but if it's part of an organisation you have to pay, or at least the organisation has to pay then it's upto them if and how much they charge their members |
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"The irony of driving 16 miles to run 3. Greenhouse effect blah blah"
Any other blanket argument you want to shoehorn into the debate? We've done charity v not for profit, we've done tax, now greenhouse effect....when does terrorism come into it for you?! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The irony of driving 16 miles to run 3. Greenhouse effect blah blah
Any other blanket argument you want to shoehorn into the debate? We've done charity v not for profit, we've done tax, now greenhouse effect....when does terrorism come into it for you?! "
Done that one, the Bristol woman with her pram who got shouted at and terrorised to get off the path as it was a running track....  |
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By *olgateMan
over a year ago
on the road to nowhere in particular |
I'm not even remotely interested in terrorism. I don't see why a limited company should avoid paying charges purely under the pretence of boldly helping the nation. If they were that worthy they would become a genuine charity. Even then they should pay their way.
They won't do that because the directors are raking in a tidy sum under the "worthy cause banner" |
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"Do park run earn money from the event? If so they should pay some of the costs. This is not a unique situation. Camden council have been charging private personal trainers to use Primrose Hill park for quite a while. Parks should not be used for commercial gainParkrun are a cost neutral organisation. They do not generate a profit stream. Anything revenue they receive is directly pumped back onto the running on pun intended) of the organisation. "
Our junior football club doesn't maaake a profit and has to beg and borrow to keep going yet we still have to pay £40 per pitch to hire it(with up to 5 teams playing at home that's £200 per week) so why should they get it's use free ?
Ps not one person gets paid at the club,as at every junior clubs we give our time for free |
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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"I'm not even remotely interested in terrorism. I don't see why a limited company should avoid paying charges purely under the pretence of boldly helping the nation. If they were that worthy they would become a genuine charity. Even then they should pay their way.
They won't do that because the directors are raking in a tidy sum under the "worthy cause banner""
The not for profit world contains many forms now. Not every not for profit goes for full charitable status. There have always been companies limited by guarantee, which is the not for profit company form.
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By *olgateMan
over a year ago
on the road to nowhere in particular |
"I'm not even remotely interested in terrorism. I don't see why a limited company should avoid paying charges purely under the pretence of boldly helping the nation. If they were that worthy they would become a genuine charity. Even then they should pay their way.
They won't do that because the directors are raking in a tidy sum under the "worthy cause banner"
The not for profit world contains many forms now. Not every not for profit goes for full charitable status. There have always been companies limited by guarantee, which is the not for profit company form.
"
thank you for clarifying,it's no reason for them not to pay for facilities. |
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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"I'm not even remotely interested in terrorism. I don't see why a limited company should avoid paying charges purely under the pretence of boldly helping the nation. If they were that worthy they would become a genuine charity. Even then they should pay their way.
They won't do that because the directors are raking in a tidy sum under the "worthy cause banner"
The not for profit world contains many forms now. Not every not for profit goes for full charitable status. There have always been companies limited by guarantee, which is the not for profit company form.
thank you for clarifying,it's no reason for them not to pay for facilities. "
It may make the whole thing nonviable but it is something they will have to look at. Whether they end up charging or having to apply for grants, which if they win will mean another local group won't get a grant, is something I am sure they will be discussing. Paying one local authority opens them up to paying all of them.
I don't understand people criticising them having paid staff or operating as a business. Not for profits, including fully fledged charities, have paid staff as well as volunteers. Something at the scale of Park Run with the technological infrastructure and large scale organisation needed would find it almost impossible to do with people giving the odd hour of volunteering here and there, when they felt like it.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I'm not even remotely interested in terrorism. I don't see why a limited company should avoid paying charges purely under the pretence of boldly helping the nation. If they were that worthy they would become a genuine charity. Even then they should pay their way.
They won't do that because the directors are raking in a tidy sum under the "worthy cause banner"
The not for profit world contains many forms now. Not every not for profit goes for full charitable status. There have always been companies limited by guarantee, which is the not for profit company form.
thank you for clarifying,it's no reason for them not to pay for facilities. "
Is a park a facility? I though a park was a public place open for everybody
Should people who run play groups pay to use parks if they take the children in their care over to use them? |
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I've not read the whole thing but Parish Councils are at the bottom of the Government pile and often function largely with volunteers and fundraising of their own.
The people within the parish play extra council tax for local services and why should they have to fork out for a bunch of people making a mess of the place?
If an organisation like the parkrun people wanted to use a football stadium or sports village they'd have to pay. Why should a tiny council have to let them use their public land for free? |
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How about a new argument about then?:
Stoke Gifford Town Council answer to the electorate of Stoke Gifford.
We must assume there have been some problems, certainly the roads around there on a Saturday used to have enough problems.
Yes a company who is out to make money can put-up a one-sided story, encourage thousands of their supporters to raise awareness throughout social media, and organise a massive petition, but the council will only listen to their electorate. I assume there have been local complaints.
This is democracy people, you can't ignore it when it gives you the answer you don't like.
Frankly the early two statements still are the most sensible:
This is only one side of the story.
Both sides will only resolve it by getting round a bit table and talking.
Mr ddc |
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"I've not read the whole thing but Parish Councils are at the bottom of the Government pile and often function largely with volunteers and fundraising of their own.
The people within the parish play extra council tax for local services and why should they have to fork out for a bunch of people making a mess of the place?
If an organisation like the parkrun people wanted to use a football stadium or sports village they'd have to pay. Why should a tiny council have to let them use their public land for free?"
Ahhh, that's why I could only see one of my posts, you'd snuck in between them
And you said it better
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Do park run earn money from the event? If so they should pay some of the costs. This is not a unique situation. Camden council have been charging private personal trainers to use Primrose Hill park for quite a while. Parks should not be used for commercial gainParkrun are a cost neutral organisation. They do not generate a profit stream. Anything revenue they receive is directly pumped back onto the running on pun intended) of the organisation.
Our junior football club doesn't maaake a profit and has to beg and borrow to keep going yet we still have to pay £40 per pitch to hire it(with up to 5 teams playing at home that's £200 per week) so why should they get it's use free ?
Ps not one person gets paid at the club,as at every junior clubs we give our time for free"
When you pay £40 to hire the pitch, can anyone turn up and use it at the same time the teams are playing or is it exclusively yours for the hire period?
The parks used for parkrun are not hired or used exclusively by the runners. The ethos is that you move to allow other park users uninterrupted access.
There is a difference between exclusive use of a pitch and a bunch of folks running round an open path.
The parish council makes more profit than parkrun UK does. And has not paid a single penny on park upkeep over the past 12 months (spending records are available on their website) and yet they still want to charge for wear and tear? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I've not read the whole thing but Parish Councils are at the bottom of the Government pile and often function largely with volunteers and fundraising of their own.
The people within the parish play extra council tax for local services and why should they have to fork out for a bunch of people making a mess of the place?
If an organisation like the parkrun people wanted to use a football stadium or sports village they'd have to pay. Why should a tiny council have to let them use their public land for free?"
Because a football stadium is private property, a park is public
As I asked earlier if a nursery or play group decided to take the children over to the park for a picnic and play in the summer should they have to pay too?
Where do you stop |
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"
Because a football stadium is private property, a park is public
As I asked earlier if a nursery or play group decided to take the children over to the park for a picnic and play in the summer should they have to pay too?
Where do you stop "
All Bristol parks are protected by by-laws. One undoubtedly relates to non-use by businesses rather than local inhabitants. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I don't think it's justifiable or excusable.
Parks are provided for public benefit and funded via public taxation.
Where do you now draw the line?
- charging for picnics
- charging for ramblers
- charging for charity fun funs
- a maintenance charge for using the road to access the car park?
- charging schools for day trips to the park?
If they were charging a fee I could see a possible justification at a certain level of usage to cover additional maintenance. But this as it stands is wrong. |
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"The council has also told Parkrun that they can apply for a grant to cover these costs. For some unknown reason Parkrun seem to be reluctant to do this. "
This hasn't been done for two reasons:
1) Parkrun don't want to set a precedent where grants are encouraged to be sought, thus deminishing it's "free" ethos. They also do not have the man power to do this on behalf of each parkrun if needed.
2) Out of curiosity Parkrun enquired to South Gloucs Council (Little Stoke's overseers) to what grants would be needed, and South Gloucs do not offer grants for park maintenance - which is what Little Stoke are insisting a grant is needed for.
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"I work for a council.
I also parkrun.
Each local parkrun is run by volunteers.
National parkrun is the 'business'. The sponsors are mainly fitness companies who provide the free 'milestone' t-shirt (a free t-shirt after 10 runs for under-16s, 50, 100 & 250 for adults)
It seems to me that if the parish start charging, the park will no longer be exempt from non-domestic rates.
Also, if it is such an burden on the hosts, why do other organisations such as the National Trust encourage Parkrun to start free runs at their location?"
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".
They state that because parkrun have paid directors and sponsors etc they don't see why they shouldn't pay. That sponsorship pays for all the technology, infrastructure, publicity etc of the movement.
Grrrrr
The council are spot on, no Grrrr required
Park Run is a business there is no disputing it
If you listen to BBC Jeremy vine on iplayer or radio4 on iplayer today you will here an inept debate on this,
The council are charging park run, exactly the same as they charge cricket clubs & football clubs, they are not charging any individual that wants to run on their own
anybody can walk or run on own but Park Run is no question a business and as such has to pay
These parks don`t run themselves!!! They actually cost a fortune to keep up together. If there`s a bowling rink provided, the bowling club pay a pretty tidy sum to keep it up to standard, you`re looking at several hundred pounds a set for football posts, nets aren`t far behind and with the average cost of a large tractor and mower set up with all the rest of the odd machinery needed to keep standards up costing the thick end of £50,000+ plus the wages of someone to do the work plus overtime for weekends, locking up and unlocking, why shouldn`t the council charge if someone else is making profits? People who play organised football games have to pay for pitches and they more than likely play for fun!
.
Parkrun stated today that they are not a charity.
The council have told them they will help in every way including filling the grant application in for them. All they need to do is sign it. They haven't done that. Why don't you ask the limited company called Parkrun why they are so reluctant to apply for the grant that will solve a problem of their making?
Ps: please don't call them a charity, it dilutes the impact of genuine charities and the good work they do
you will find the answers in all the above, you just need to read
Be aware Park Run not only pay directors, they also pay over 12 other staff in their business, did you read the last word? business, not charity, business.
If you are unclear on any of the above If you listen to BBC Jeremy vine on iplayer or radio4 on iplayer today you will here an inept debate on this where Park run state openly they are a business.
and like any other business they should pay"
There's a difference between a business and non profit organisation. It'd be naive to think that the services Parkrun provide on a whole, to come at zero cost. However these are free to the end user, and the Parkrun ethos is to keep them free.
But, the providence of and management of these services need to be paid for - so is it unreasonable for a few that do this on a full time basis get paid? |
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By *olgateMan
over a year ago
on the road to nowhere in particular |
".
They state that because parkrun have paid directors and sponsors etc they don't see why they shouldn't pay. That sponsorship pays for all the technology, infrastructure, publicity etc of the movement.
Grrrrr
The council are spot on, no Grrrr required
Park Run is a business there is no disputing it
If you listen to BBC Jeremy vine on iplayer or radio4 on iplayer today you will here an inept debate on this,
The council are charging park run, exactly the same as they charge cricket clubs & football clubs, they are not charging any individual that wants to run on their own
anybody can walk or run on own but Park Run is no question a business and as such has to pay
These parks don`t run themselves!!! They actually cost a fortune to keep up together. If there`s a bowling rink provided, the bowling club pay a pretty tidy sum to keep it up to standard, you`re looking at several hundred pounds a set for football posts, nets aren`t far behind and with the average cost of a large tractor and mower set up with all the rest of the odd machinery needed to keep standards up costing the thick end of £50,000+ plus the wages of someone to do the work plus overtime for weekends, locking up and unlocking, why shouldn`t the council charge if someone else is making profits? People who play organised football games have to pay for pitches and they more than likely play for fun!
.
Parkrun stated today that they are not a charity.
The council have told them they will help in every way including filling the grant application in for them. All they need to do is sign it. They haven't done that. Why don't you ask the limited company called Parkrun why they are so reluctant to apply for the grant that will solve a problem of their making?
Ps: please don't call them a charity, it dilutes the impact of genuine charities and the good work they do
you will find the answers in all the above, you just need to read
Be aware Park Run not only pay directors, they also pay over 12 other staff in their business, did you read the last word? business, not charity, business.
If you are unclear on any of the above If you listen to BBC Jeremy vine on iplayer or radio4 on iplayer today you will here an inept debate on this where Park run state openly they are a business.
and like any other business they should pay
There's a difference between a business and non profit organisation. It'd be naive to think that the services Parkrun provide on a whole, to come at zero cost. However these are free to the end user, and the Parkrun ethos is to keep them free.
But, the providence of and management of these services need to be paid for - so is it unreasonable for a few that do this on a full time basis get paid? "
Why should Parkrun be treated differently to other local groups just because they have a big PR machine?
If other groups must pay so should Parkrun |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Actually the charge of football pitches is a good argument - except that presumably that includes the use of changing facilities, storage and pitch markings etc.
So presumably Parkrun will be able to demand extra provision in return for the fees required. |
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The difference with Parkrun vs other clubs etc is that Parkrun does not charge it's users subscriptions.
Neither does Parkrun make use of the showering facilities, or storage facilities there. Pitches do not need to be kept.
Parkrun have offered to help with the upkeep with regular trash walks and other maintenance.
Parkrun have also offered to help with integrating a failing local council funded (~£33k) youth club into it's youth park run and other affiliated groups. The parish council have rejected all of these and are only focused on a revenue in which they continuously change the reason for. |
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By *olgateMan
over a year ago
on the road to nowhere in particular |
"The difference with Parkrun vs other clubs etc is that Parkrun does not charge it's users subscriptions.
Neither does Parkrun make use of the showering facilities, or storage facilities there. Pitches do not need to be kept.
Parkrun have offered to help with the upkeep with regular trash walks and other maintenance.
Parkrun have also offered to help with integrating a failing local council funded (~£33k) youth club into it's youth park run and other affiliated groups. The parish council have rejected all of these and are only focused on a revenue in which they continuously change the reason for."
how will Parkrun pay for this? |
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"The difference with Parkrun vs other clubs etc is that Parkrun does not charge it's users subscriptions.
Neither does Parkrun make use of the showering facilities, or storage facilities there. Pitches do not need to be kept.
Parkrun have offered to help with the upkeep with regular trash walks and other maintenance.
Parkrun have also offered to help with integrating a failing local council funded (~£33k) youth club into it's youth park run and other affiliated groups. The parish council have rejected all of these and are only focused on a revenue in which they continuously change the reason for.how will Parkrun pay for this?"
If you mean how will parkrun pay for the labour of what they've offered? It's all offered by the local volunteers. None of the staffing at each of the parkrun events is paid for - all crowd-sourced among the runners. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The difference with Parkrun vs other clubs etc is that Parkrun does not charge it's users subscriptions.
Neither does Parkrun make use of the showering facilities, or storage facilities there. Pitches do not need to be kept.
Parkrun have offered to help with the upkeep with regular trash walks and other maintenance.
Parkrun have also offered to help with integrating a failing local council funded (~£33k) youth club into it's youth park run and other affiliated groups. The parish council have rejected all of these and are only focused on a revenue in which they continuously change the reason for.how will Parkrun pay for this?"
Pay for what? Do you understand what voluteering is? What needs paying for? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I understand fully, I don't agree with a limited company exploiting unpaid labour"
How does volunteers giving back something to the community and to the park that they run in anyway equate to that? |
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"I understand fully, I don't agree with a limited company exploiting unpaid labour"
Being a limited company doesn't assure huge labour resources and financial power.
To put it into context looking at their accounts for last year this limited company had £33k in the bank. A company that manages ~850 events globally a week!
This isn't exploitation, it's how this initiative operates keeping participation free. To fund the free time scores text and emailed to every participant weekly, for the T-shirts given free to the non-fee paying participants on their milestone runs - These all have to be purchased.
Operating as a limited company I'm sure is a way to make this as cost effective as possible whilst not having a regular revenue. |
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"I understand fully, I don't agree with a limited company exploiting unpaid labour"
you really are scraping the bottom of the argument barrel now.....how can you exploit people who can pick or choose how to turn up? |
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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"I understand fully, I don't agree with a limited company exploiting unpaid labour"
Cancer Research is a limited company (by guarantee as previously explained), as are many other charities. Most incorporate in this form as the stage before getting charitable status but principally to protect the directors and members by limiting the liability. This, in turn, protects the funds. The funds can't be given to shareholders on closure. It's not for private profit. |
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