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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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I know Fabbers like a welfare debate. Keeps the blood flowing.
Ian Hislop on BBC2 tonight.
Last night, on the One Show, he revealed that the history of welfare reform in this country is ... erm ... entirely predictable, and has been the same for hundreds of years (including the work houses).
Step 1. Politician points to money being spent for nothing in return.
Step 2. Public agrees. My word, but I have to work hard for a living. Why should they get it for nothing? Blah, blah.
Step 3. Politician introduces cut.
Step 4. Public puts arms in air. How unfair! Picking on the worst off. Just not English.
Step 5. Politician villified and lucky if they survive in their political career.
Sounds familiar, hey? Yet time after time, there is always someone trying to do it again.
Is it because it is not possible to achieve meaningful reform without unfairness or is it because no one has found a fair formula? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I know Fabbers like a welfare debate. Keeps the blood flowing.
Ian Hislop on BBC2 tonight.
Last night, on the One Show, he revealed that the history of welfare reform in this country is ... erm ... entirely predictable, and has been the same for hundreds of years (including the work houses).
Step 1. Politician points to money being spent for nothing in return.
Step 2. Public agrees. My word, but I have to work hard for a living. Why should they get it for nothing? Blah, blah.
Step 3. Politician introduces cut.
Step 4. Public puts arms in air. How unfair! Picking on the worst off. Just not English.
Step 5. Politician villified and lucky if they survive in their political career.
Sounds familiar, hey? Yet time after time, there is always someone trying to do it again.
Is it because it is not possible to achieve meaningful reform without unfairness or is it because no one has found a fair formula?"
Gets one thinking certainly. Plato's Republic springs to mind. |
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Apropos...
Iain Duncan Smith 'wept about plight of single mother' in TV interview
Ian Hislop says former work and pensions secretary broke down during filming of new Workers or Shirkers documentary.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/apr/05/iain-duncan-smith-wept-tv-interview-ian-hislop-workers-or-shirkers |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I love the Victorian era, they were great plutocrats with some fabulously wealthy oligarchs who were very philanthropic.... The trouble is very were usually religious do-gooders who were teetotalers.... Built Lovely villagers away from the city shit tips for the workers....
But not a pub in site  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"A reform is supposed to improve something..
Anyway, we're back to victorian levels of homelessness.  "
Are we? From where do you get your figures? I can't find any (and suspect there are no reliable figures - either from that period or from ours). |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The temperance movement was enormous in the late 19th/early 20th century, closely linked with Methodism.
My grandfather was an avid temperance man in the North East in the 1930, but also a Communist. He said he liked the temperance movement for the parades, but the communist club for the fighting  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"A reform is supposed to improve something..
Anyway, we're back to victorian levels of homelessness.
Are we? From where do you get your figures? I can't find any (and suspect there are no reliable figures - either from that period or from ours)."
Crisis, a homeless charity. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"A reform is supposed to improve something..
Anyway, we're back to victorian levels of homelessness.
Are we? From where do you get your figures? I can't find any (and suspect there are no reliable figures - either from that period or from ours)."
Crisis, a homeless charity.
But the way they did it was weird.
There's actually half as many people on the streets now than there was then, just most homerless people have no permanent housing and they got classed into it (but made lesser) and this is how they calculated that. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"A reform is supposed to improve something..
Anyway, we're back to victorian levels of homelessness.
Are we? From where do you get your figures? I can't find any (and suspect there are no reliable figures - either from that period or from ours).
Crisis, a homeless charity.
But the way they did it was weird.
There's actually half as many people on the streets now than there was then, just most homerless people have no permanent housing and they got classed into it (but made lesser) and this is how they calculated that. "
I had a look at the Crisis site but could not find that. It may, of course, be the case that some Victorian did a valid statistical survey.
I have heard rough figures of 30,000 London homeless in Victorian times though how acuurate that is, I have no idea, and that did refer to "on the street" as opposed to the equivalent of sofa-surfing. I doubt there are any figures available. I doubt whether figures available to us today are any more than conjecture. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"A reform is supposed to improve something..
Anyway, we're back to victorian levels of homelessness.
Are we? From where do you get your figures? I can't find any (and suspect there are no reliable figures - either from that period or from ours).
Crisis, a homeless charity.
But the way they did it was weird.
There's actually half as many people on the streets now than there was then, just most homerless people have no permanent housing and they got classed into it (but made lesser) and this is how they calculated that.
I had a look at the Crisis site but could not find that. It may, of course, be the case that some Victorian did a valid statistical survey.
I have heard rough figures of 30,000 London homeless in Victorian times though how acuurate that is, I have no idea, and that did refer to "on the street" as opposed to the equivalent of sofa-surfing. I doubt there are any figures available. I doubt whether figures available to us today are any more than conjecture."
thy do research articles also. i can't post them because they aren't in the mainstream media but you might find them using google.
idk where they got their victorian statistics from but the salvation army was going in those days. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"A reform is supposed to improve something..
Anyway, we're back to victorian levels of homelessness.
Are we? From where do you get your figures? I can't find any (and suspect there are no reliable figures - either from that period or from ours).
Crisis, a homeless charity.
But the way they did it was weird.
There's actually half as many people on the streets now than there was then, just most homerless people have no permanent housing and they got classed into it (but made lesser) and this is how they calculated that.
I had a look at the Crisis site but could not find that. It may, of course, be the case that some Victorian did a valid statistical survey.
I have heard rough figures of 30,000 London homeless in Victorian times though how acuurate that is, I have no idea, and that did refer to "on the street" as opposed to the equivalent of sofa-surfing. I doubt there are any figures available. I doubt whether figures available to us today are any more than conjecture.
thy do research articles also. i can't post them because they aren't in the mainstream media but you might find them using google.
idk where they got their victorian statistics from but the salvation army was going in those days."
I am sorry but without some sort of source, I remain to be convinced. While there is no doubt a real and increasing problem in this country, I do not for a second equate it to Victorian times. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"A reform is supposed to improve something..
Anyway, we're back to victorian levels of homelessness.
Are we? From where do you get your figures? I can't find any (and suspect there are no reliable figures - either from that period or from ours).
Crisis, a homeless charity.
But the way they did it was weird.
There's actually half as many people on the streets now than there was then, just most homerless people have no permanent housing and they got classed into it (but made lesser) and this is how they calculated that.
I had a look at the Crisis site but could not find that. It may, of course, be the case that some Victorian did a valid statistical survey.
I have heard rough figures of 30,000 London homeless in Victorian times though how acuurate that is, I have no idea, and that did refer to "on the street" as opposed to the equivalent of sofa-surfing. I doubt there are any figures available. I doubt whether figures available to us today are any more than conjecture.
thy do research articles also. i can't post them because they aren't in the mainstream media but you might find them using google.
idk where they got their victorian statistics from but the salvation army was going in those days.
I am sorry but without some sort of source, I remain to be convinced. While there is no doubt a real and increasing problem in this country, I do not for a second equate it to Victorian times."
yeah that's fine. it is weird how they did what they're claiming anyway so i'm not sure about it myself. |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Hereford |
"The temperance movement was enormous in the late 19th/early 20th century, closely linked with Methodism.
My grandfather was an avid temperance man in the North East in the 1930, but also a Communist. He said he liked the temperance movement for the parades, but the communist club for the fighting "
Sounds like my grandad. Booze distracts one from the class struggle apparently. |
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