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Panama, not just great for hats and cigars II
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" - "Have you seen the news about this tax avoidance scandal?" - "...something to do with that criminal Putin, isn't it?" - "No, many people here too" - "Ah, well - we'd all do it if we had the chance, good luck to them...." -"but this is potentially the biggest financial scandal of all time, dragging in world leaders..." -"You're just envious! It's only the same as tradesmen doing a job for cash.." -"but it's looking like this might go to the heart government, with lots of Donors seemingly advised to use such schemes and give the proceeds to the Tories" -"Why do you always have to bring politics into it, it's nothing to do with that" -*sigh* (copied unashamedly from FB, but has a familiar ring) " | |||
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"Shorter posts please everyone. Markoh "Meanie" Smith. Standing for the rich capitalists of the world party." stop moaning..
unless words are to be taxed.. | |||
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"It's not tax avoidance! It's tax evasion. The whole point of the Panama schemes was holding companies and shell companies designed to look like "legit" business but in effect were illegally laundering money for the purposes of evading tax!. Camerons dad was evading tax for his clients doing the same thing!. . . There are genuine tax avoidance schemes like Jimmy carr was upto that are questionable on morality and maybe questionable on legality but these are not them!. The whole point of a tax heaven is to "hide" your money, just like the old Swiss bank account. Now passing money around via shell companies for the purpose of tax evasion is money laundering and it's a crime, AL Capone did life for it!" It's. Not. Illegal. | |||
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"Dont worry... HMRC are investigating... In 10 years time they will come to an agreement with all the wealthy criminals who have been defrauding this country (thats all of us!) and will accept a payment of 10% of what should have been paid 5 years ago writing off the other 14 years worth of tax and the chancellor will tell us what a good deal he has got for us. "Reminds me of Vodafone... wish I could owe billions and then pop to see my friendly local tax man/woman and settle it for a fraction of what I owe on a handshake. It would make my life so much easier... http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/vodafones-84bn-tax-avoidance-bonanza-nothing-for-taxpayers-in-verizon-deal-while-bankers-share-500m-8794169.html | |||
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" It's. Not. Illegal." Using a tax haven to avoid tax in itself isn't illegal, no. However, as several tax experts, Jolyon Maugham QC for example, are saying, there may be criminality involved in these particular cases. Apart from anything else, why Panama? It's not like other tax havens aren't available. Panama is an odd choice for UK residents. Of course, proving criminal behaviour will be the difficult part. | |||
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" It's. Not. Illegal. Using a tax haven to avoid tax in itself isn't illegal, no. However, as several tax experts, Jolyon Maugham QC for example, are saying, there may be criminality involved in these particular cases. Apart from anything else, why Panama? It's not like other tax havens aren't available. Panama is an odd choice for UK residents. Of course, proving criminal behaviour will be the difficult part." If crminilaty is proved, prosecute. 
Agreed about choosing Panama though. Who'd have thought we'd agree on something. | |||
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"It's not tax avoidance! It's tax evasion. The whole point of the Panama schemes was holding companies and shell companies designed to look like "legit" business but in effect were illegally laundering money for the purposes of evading tax!. Camerons dad was evading tax for his clients doing the same thing!. . . There are genuine tax avoidance schemes like Jimmy carr was upto that are questionable on morality and maybe questionable on legality but these are not them!. The whole point of a tax heaven is to "hide" your money, just like the old Swiss bank account. Now passing money around via shell companies for the purpose of tax evasion is money laundering and it's a crime, AL Capone did life for it! It's. Not. Illegal." . . . Listen if you ever do make millions, listen to these words because ignorance of the law is no defence. It's illegal to launder money through shell companies for the purposes of evading tax. | |||
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" It's. Not. Illegal. Using a tax haven to avoid tax in itself isn't illegal, no. However, as several tax experts, Jolyon Maugham QC for example, are saying, there may be criminality involved in these particular cases. Apart from anything else, why Panama? It's not like other tax havens aren't available. Panama is an odd choice for UK residents. Of course, proving criminal behaviour will be the difficult part. If crminilaty is proved, prosecute.
Agreed about choosing Panama though. Who'd have thought we'd agree on something. "2 things. Ragdoll cats. | |||
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"It's illegal to launder money through shell companies for the purposes of evading tax." I agree with you. However, where is the proof any of the named people did, have done or do that? Maybe I've missed it, but I haven't seen any. From what I've read, even renowned tax experts are saying there *may* be criminal behaviour involved but it's going to be bloody difficult to prove it. | |||
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"It's illegal to launder money through shell companies for the purposes of evading tax. I agree with you. However, where is the proof any of the named people did, have done or do that? Maybe I've missed it, but I haven't seen any. From what I've read, even renowned tax experts are saying there *may* be criminal behaviour involved but it's going to be bloody difficult to prove it." If it's legal, how come... * Crowds gathering outside Iceland's parliament demanding the Prime Minister Sigmundur Gunnlaugsson step down over allegations he concealed investments in an offshore company * Close relatives of seven current or former Chinese leaders have been found to have links to offshore firms and there has been a media blackout in China regarding the story * The Australian Tax Office (ATO) is investigating more than 800 individual taxpayers, all residents of Australia * The US Department of Justice is re_iewing the leaked documents to look for evidence of corruption that could be prosecuted in the US, the Wall Street Journal reports * France and Spain are investigating money laundering exposed by the leaks among their resident taxpayers * Panama President Juan Carlos Varela has said his government has "zero tolerance" for illicit financial activities and would co-operate vigorously with any judicial investigation in any country | |||
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"It's illegal to launder money through shell companies for the purposes of evading tax. I agree with you. However, where is the proof any of the named people did, have done or do that? Maybe I've missed it, but I haven't seen any. From what I've read, even renowned tax experts are saying there *may* be criminal behaviour involved but it's going to be bloody difficult to prove it. If it's legal, how come... * Crowds gathering outside Iceland's parliament demanding the Prime Minister Sigmundur Gunnlaugsson step down over allegations he concealed investments in an offshore company * Close relatives of seven current or former Chinese leaders have been found to have links to offshore firms and there has been a media blackout in China regarding the story * The Australian Tax Office (ATO) is investigating more than 800 individual taxpayers, all residents of Australia * The US Department of Justice is re_iewing the leaked documents to look for evidence of corruption that could be prosecuted in the US, the Wall Street Journal reports * France and Spain are investigating money laundering exposed by the leaks among their resident taxpayers * Panama President Juan Carlos Varela has said his government has "zero tolerance" for illicit financial activities and would co-operate vigorously with any judicial investigation in any country" "It's illegal to launder money through shell companies for the purposes of evading tax. I agree with you. However, where is the proof any of the named people did, have done or do that? Maybe I've missed it, but I haven't seen any. From what I've read, even renowned tax experts are saying there *may* be criminal behaviour involved but it's going to be bloody difficult to prove it. If it's legal, how come... * Crowds gathering outside Iceland's parliament demanding the Prime Minister Sigmundur Gunnlaugsson step down over allegations he concealed investments in an offshore company * Close relatives of seven current or former Chinese leaders have been found to have links to offshore firms and there has been a media blackout in China regarding the story * The Australian Tax Office (ATO) is investigating more than 800 individual taxpayers, all residents of Australia * The US Department of Justice is re_iewing the leaked documents to look for evidence of corruption that could be prosecuted in the US, the Wall Street Journal reports * France and Spain are investigating money laundering exposed by the leaks among their resident taxpayers * Panama President Juan Carlos Varela has said his government has "zero tolerance" for illicit financial activities and would co-operate vigorously with any judicial investigation in any country" I didn't say there hasn't been illegal activity. There may have been. It's likely there was. However, just having money in an offshore account is not illegal, at least not here. I'm seeing lots of "investigating" and "alleging". No proof of anything illegal. At least not yet. People being pissed off about it and applying pressure for something to be done doesn't make it illegal. | |||
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" It's. Not. Illegal. Using a tax haven to avoid tax in itself isn't illegal, no. However, as several tax experts, Jolyon Maugham QC for example, are saying, there may be criminality involved in these particular cases. Apart from anything else, why Panama? It's not like other tax havens aren't available. Panama is an odd choice for UK residents. Of course, proving criminal behaviour will be the difficult part. If crminilaty is proved, prosecute.
Agreed about choosing Panama though. Who'd have thought we'd agree on something.
2 things.
Ragdoll cats." | |||
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"It's illegal to launder money through shell companies for the purposes of evading tax. I agree with you. However, where is the proof any of the named people did, have done or do that? Maybe I've missed it, but I haven't seen any. From what I've read, even renowned tax experts are saying there *may* be criminal behaviour involved but it's going to be bloody difficult to prove it. If it's legal, how come... * Crowds gathering outside Iceland's parliament demanding the Prime Minister Sigmundur Gunnlaugsson step down over allegations he concealed investments in an offshore company * Close relatives of seven current or former Chinese leaders have been found to have links to offshore firms and there has been a media blackout in China regarding the story * The Australian Tax Office (ATO) is investigating more than 800 individual taxpayers, all residents of Australia * The US Department of Justice is re_iewing the leaked documents to look for evidence of corruption that could be prosecuted in the US, the Wall Street Journal reports * France and Spain are investigating money laundering exposed by the leaks among their resident taxpayers * Panama President Juan Carlos Varela has said his government has "zero tolerance" for illicit financial activities and would co-operate vigorously with any judicial investigation in any country" Is that an echo..... | |||
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"It's illegal to launder money through shell companies for the purposes of evading tax. I agree with you. However, where is the proof any of the named people did, have done or do that? Maybe I've missed it, but I haven't seen any. From what I've read, even renowned tax experts are saying there *may* be criminal behaviour involved but it's going to be bloody difficult to prove it. If it's legal, how come... * Crowds gathering outside Iceland's parliament demanding the Prime Minister Sigmundur Gunnlaugsson step down over allegations he concealed investments in an offshore company * Close relatives of seven current or former Chinese leaders have been found to have links to offshore firms and there has been a media blackout in China regarding the story * The Australian Tax Office (ATO) is investigating more than 800 individual taxpayers, all residents of Australia * The US Department of Justice is re_iewing the leaked documents to look for evidence of corruption that could be prosecuted in the US, the Wall Street Journal reports * France and Spain are investigating money laundering exposed by the leaks among their resident taxpayers * Panama President Juan Carlos Varela has said his government has "zero tolerance" for illicit financial activities and would co-operate vigorously with any judicial investigation in any country" These posts are getting a bit long again.... | |||
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"Is that an echo....." Just underlining the point as people have a tendency to read the last post rather than scan the whole argument. I'm making it easier for people | |||
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"Is that an echo..... Just underlining the point as people have a tendency to read the last post rather than scan the whole argument. I'm making it easier for people "Yer all heart | |||
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"It's not tax avoidance! It's tax evasion. The whole point of the Panama schemes was holding companies and shell companies designed to look like "legit" business but in effect were illegally laundering money for the purposes of evading tax!. Camerons dad was evading tax for his clients doing the same thing!. . . There are genuine tax avoidance schemes like Jimmy carr was upto that are questionable on morality and maybe questionable on legality but these are not them!. The whole point of a tax heaven is to "hide" your money, just like the old Swiss bank account. Now passing money around via shell companies for the purpose of tax evasion is money laundering and it's a crime, AL Capone did life for it! It's. Not. Illegal.. . . Listen if you ever do make millions, listen to these words because ignorance of the law is no defence. It's illegal to launder money through shell companies for the purposes of evading tax." Another million actually. 
I'm not sure where the "ignorance of the law" comment comes from or why you've thrown it in the mix.
Are people passing you random phrases to put into a post for comedy effect? You know, like buzzword bingo or something.
Can you point us all in the direction of the legislation that states; "It's illegal to launder money through shell companies for the purposes of evading tax." Better still, where the proof is that this has been done.
FYI, newspaper headlines are not proof.
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"Is that an echo..... Just underlining the point as people have a tendency to read the last post rather than scan the whole argument. I'm making it easier for people
Yer all heart "But it's such a great story! | |||
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"It's not tax avoidance! It's tax evasion. The whole point of the Panama schemes was holding companies and shell companies designed to look like "legit" business but in effect were illegally laundering money for the purposes of evading tax!. Camerons dad was evading tax for his clients doing the same thing!. . . There are genuine tax avoidance schemes like Jimmy carr was upto that are questionable on morality and maybe questionable on legality but these are not them!. The whole point of a tax heaven is to "hide" your money, just like the old Swiss bank account. Now passing money around via shell companies for the purpose of tax evasion is money laundering and it's a crime, AL Capone did life for it! It's. Not. Illegal.. . . Listen if you ever do make millions, listen to these words because ignorance of the law is no defence. It's illegal to launder money through shell companies for the purposes of evading tax. Another million actually.
I'm not sure where the "ignorance of the law" comment comes from or why you've thrown it in the mix.
Are people passing you random phrases to put into a post for comedy effect? You know, like buzzword bingo or something.
Can you point us all in the direction of the legislation that states; "It's illegal to launder money through shell companies for the purposes of evading tax." Better still, where the proof is that this has been done.
FYI, newspaper headlines are not proof.
". AL Capone, life in prison! | |||
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"Oh my gods who fucking cares really. This corrupted little system we find ourselves in has existed in this way for hundreds of years and was put in place by the rich and powerful to keep themselves rich and powerful. We will never stop them. Their behaviour is pathological and cannot be helped. Ask yourself, if you had limitless power and influence what would you do? You wanna stop this? We need to kick over the board and start a new game. " . So what do you care about? | |||
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" AL Capone, life in prison!" Hmm. Convicted of income tax evasion, yes, but that's all I know. Please provide a link to a reputable source showing Capone evaded that tax by stashing money in offshore companies. It's a bit of a weak argument without a lot more information. | |||
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Council empty your bins badly.. Yeah don't complain, just train to drive a bin wagon and do it yourself!!!.
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" AL Capone, life in prison! Hmm. Convicted of income tax evasion, yes, but that's all I know. Please provide a link to a reputable source showing Capone evaded that tax by stashing money in offshore companies. It's a bit of a weak argument without a lot more information." . Front company's open, provide loans, write off loans, shell company passess money along and like a giant merry go round... Out the other end comes legit bonafida Wonga that you can account for!. The input cash, could be drug money, terrorists money, prostitution, gambling or just plain old fashioned money you didn't want to pay tax on from a legit source.... Either way it starts unaccountable and finishes up being... Hey look me with my honest hard working millions in the bank | |||
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" So what do you care about? " A great many things. I care about my friends and my community, I care about the mess we are leaving the planet in for the next generation. I care about my world and the innocent people who live here just trying every day to live good lives and positively influence the world around them. I DON'T care about silly evil selfish little children running around using their imaginary laws and powers to tell me how I should live my very short life. When they clearly not of high moral standard. Truly, they are of little importance to us and only have power because we continue to allow it. I have spent too much time and energy, risked my very mental health on issues like this for too many years. It does us no good to be fighting amongst ourselves while they giggle at how stupid we are. We laughed at those who saw this coming. We brand conspiracy theories as all rubbing so by the time one becomes fact it is already too late. It is too late. We have no power here, no influence and our opinions (right or wrong) will inevitably amount to shit. Concern yourself with the things you love and that bring you peace and let the business of destroying humanity to the people you elected to do it. | |||
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"If you don't like it, why don't you run for government and put a stop to it!. . . Just what the fuck type of thinking is that. I don't like my doctor or his ways, yeah why don't I train to be a doctor and put a stop to his meddling. You don't like your garage and it's fancy Dan fiddling on overpriced parts... Don't legislate or go through the means of consumer law... Nooooo.. Run your own and put a stop to it! .
Council empty your bins badly.. Yeah don't complain, just train to drive a bin wagon and do it yourself!!!.
"You can choose a different dr. Different garage. You can complain or drive to the tip I guess. The HMRC isn't optional - there's no alternative or am I mis understanding as I've not read the whole thread. Sarah | |||
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"I haven't read the threads through. Does anyone have advice for how I can stop paying taxes in two fucking countries, yet? Many thanks "Hold on , I'll get you the details of a really helpful firm in Panama. They'll sort it for you, no problem. Sarah  | |||
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"I haven't read the threads through. Does anyone have advice for how I can stop paying taxes in two fucking countries, yet? Many thanks "Set yourself up as a series of shell companies running through off-shore tax havens. Simples. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06ygl19 | |||
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"It's not tax avoidance! It's tax evasion. The whole point of the Panama schemes was holding companies and shell companies designed to look like "legit" business but in effect were illegally laundering money for the purposes of evading tax!. Camerons dad was evading tax for his clients doing the same thing!. . . There are genuine tax avoidance schemes like Jimmy carr was upto that are questionable on morality and maybe questionable on legality but these are not them!. The whole point of a tax heaven is to "hide" your money, just like the old Swiss bank account. Now passing money around via shell companies for the purpose of tax evasion is money laundering and it's a crime, AL Capone did life for it! It's. Not. Illegal.. . . Listen if you ever do make millions, listen to these words because ignorance of the law is no defence. It's illegal to launder money through shell companies for the purposes of evading tax. Another million actually.
I'm not sure where the "ignorance of the law" comment comes from or why you've thrown it in the mix.
Are people passing you random phrases to put into a post for comedy effect? You know, like buzzword bingo or something.
Can you point us all in the direction of the legislation that states; "It's illegal to launder money through shell companies for the purposes of evading tax." Better still, where the proof is that this has been done.
FYI, newspaper headlines are not proof.
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AL Capone, life in prison!"Are you really saying your proof is an American gangster who died in 1947? I've read it all now....... | |||
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"If you don't like it, why don't you run for government and put a stop to it!. . . Just what the fuck type of thinking is that. I don't like my doctor or his ways, yeah why don't I train to be a doctor and put a stop to his meddling. You don't like your garage and it's fancy Dan fiddling on overpriced parts... Don't legislate or go through the means of consumer law... Nooooo.. Run your own and put a stop to it! .
Council empty your bins badly.. Yeah don't complain, just train to drive a bin wagon and do it yourself!!!.
"I'll get that one..... It's the logical sort of thinking. If you don't do anything to affect the change you want, you'll be on here banging your drum about the same thing forever. You want change, make the changes you want. And don't give us all that shite about politics being a closed shop. Anyone with a deposit can run a campaign. | |||
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" AL Capone, life in prison! Hmm. Convicted of income tax evasion, yes, but that's all I know. Please provide a link to a reputable source showing Capone evaded that tax by stashing money in offshore companies. It's a bit of a weak argument without a lot more information.. Front company's open, provide loans, write off loans, shell company passess money along and like a giant merry go round... Out the other end comes legit bonafida Wonga that you can account for!. The input cash, could be drug money, terrorists money, prostitution, gambling or just plain old fashioned money you didn't want to pay tax on from a legit source.... Either way it starts unaccountable and finishes up being... Hey look me with my honest hard working millions in the bank" So no actual link to actual evidence that the Capone case is similar to the Panama situations at all then? Righto. I've filed this theory in an appropriate place. NEXT! | |||
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"It's not tax avoidance! It's tax evasion. The whole point of the Panama schemes was holding companies and shell companies designed to look like "legit" business but in effect were illegally laundering money for the purposes of evading tax!. Camerons dad was evading tax for his clients doing the same thing!. . . There are genuine tax avoidance schemes like Jimmy carr was upto that are questionable on morality and maybe questionable on legality but these are not them!. The whole point of a tax heaven is to "hide" your money, just like the old Swiss bank account. Now passing money around via shell companies for the purpose of tax evasion is money laundering and it's a crime, AL Capone did life for it! It's. Not. Illegal.. . . Listen if you ever do make millions, listen to these words because ignorance of the law is no defence. It's illegal to launder money through shell companies for the purposes of evading tax. Another million actually.
I'm not sure where the "ignorance of the law" comment comes from or why you've thrown it in the mix.
Are people passing you random phrases to put into a post for comedy effect? You know, like buzzword bingo or something.
Can you point us all in the direction of the legislation that states; "It's illegal to launder money through shell companies for the purposes of evading tax." Better still, where the proof is that this has been done.
FYI, newspaper headlines are not proof.
.
AL Capone, life in prison!
Are you really saying your proof is an American gangster who died in 1947?
I've read it all now.......". Ok smart arse go right ahead and do it here if you think it's legal!. I'll come visit you honestly I will!. Have you ever stopped and wondered why they were setting up shell companies in Panama and not Birmingham or London?. Secrecy!... And why do you think you need secrecy if it's legal? | |||
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" So what do you care about? A great many things. I care about my friends and my community, I care about the mess we are leaving the planet in for the next generation. I care about my world and the innocent people who live here just trying every day to live good lives and positively influence the world around them. I DON'T care about silly evil selfish little children running around using their imaginary laws and powers to tell me how I should live my very short life. When they clearly not of high moral standard. Truly, they are of little importance to us and only have power because we continue to allow it. I have spent too much time and energy, risked my very mental health on issues like this for too many years. It does us no good to be fighting amongst ourselves while they giggle at how stupid we are. We laughed at those who saw this coming. We brand conspiracy theories as all rubbing so by the time one becomes fact it is already too late. It is too late. We have no power here, no influence and our opinions (right or wrong) will inevitably amount to shit. Concern yourself with the things you love and that bring you peace and let the business of destroying humanity to the people you elected to do it." . This is excellent advise.... Unfortunately I'm not your typical voter and I don't belive letting people do bad things is good in the long run | |||
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" AL Capone, life in prison! Hmm. Convicted of income tax evasion, yes, but that's all I know. Please provide a link to a reputable source showing Capone evaded that tax by stashing money in offshore companies. It's a bit of a weak argument without a lot more information.. Front company's open, provide loans, write off loans, shell company passess money along and like a giant merry go round... Out the other end comes legit bonafida Wonga that you can account for!. The input cash, could be drug money, terrorists money, prostitution, gambling or just plain old fashioned money you didn't want to pay tax on from a legit source.... Either way it starts unaccountable and finishes up being... Hey look me with my honest hard working millions in the bank So no actual link to actual evidence that the Capone case is similar to the Panama situations at all then? Righto. I've filed this theory in an appropriate place. NEXT! ". None whatsoever!. I'm just stating that Capone bribed politicans and cajoled elections to suit his business plan for which he paid no tax's(he morally might have wanted to) and he used secretive and illegal operations to hide his true wealth for which he was eventually imprisoned for! | |||
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"Sweet. I'm set. As you were. "Maybe not quite set..... If you are paying taxes to US govt. they have tighter/stronger regulations and look through arrangements in place than other countries... it might mean a few more layers or shells | |||
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"I think it's cool they've been infiltrated and exposed though. Going on about probing into our personal mails/whatsapp and stuff and this happens to them. "Who are "them" though? I'm sure everyone would have a shit if I referred to everyone who earns less than £20k, or receives any kind of benefits, for example, as "them" - some kind of homogenous mass, all with the same nefarious intentions and the same motivations. I'm not aware that the Icelandic PM, or DC's dad, or the echelons of Chinese politics, or Putin have been pressing for access to people's private communications. | |||
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"I think it's cool they've been infiltrated and exposed though. Going on about probing into our personal mails/whatsapp and stuff and this happens to them.
Who are "them" though?
I'm sure everyone would have a shit if I referred to everyone who earns less than £20k, or receives any kind of benefits, for example, as "them" - some kind of homogenous mass, all with the same nefarious intentions and the same motivations. I'm not aware that the Icelandic PM, or DC's dad, or the echelons of Chinese politics, or Putin have been pressing for access to people's private communications.
"But it's all about sticking it to "The Man" Eat the rich etc | |||
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"poor people starving to death, in the UK?" yeah i believe we spoke about this recently and i am not gonna over take this topic with him. all because we didn't have people paying enough taxes so we had austerity cuts instead and these killed people. also look up calums list. | |||
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"poor people starving to death, in the UK? yeah i believe we spoke about this recently and i am not gonna over take this topic with him. all because we didn't have people paying enough taxes so we had auaterity suts instead and these killed people. also look up calums list."
Cases of malnourishment are increasing rapidly. People are being hospitalised and it's definitely contributing to premature deaths. | |||
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"and I thought people wanted the Foreign Aid to stop and spend the money in the UK so it's okay for some to stave to death, just not us" I don't want foreign aid to stop. I do want the budget imbalance caused by the rich and greedy to be fixed at their expense rather than squeezing the poor and vulnerable to death, as the debt increases anyway! | |||
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"and I thought people wanted the Foreign Aid to stop and spend the money in the UK so it's okay for some to stave to death, just not us I don't want foreign aid to stop. I do want the budget imbalance caused by the rich and greedy to be fixed at their expense rather than squeezing the poor and vulnerable to death, as the debt increases anyway!" lobby your MP | |||
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" - "Have you seen the news about this tax avoidance scandal?" - "...something to do with that criminal Putin, isn't it?" - "No, many people here too" - "Ah, well - we'd all do it if we had the chance, good luck to them...." -"but this is potentially the biggest financial scandal of all time, dragging in world leaders..." -"You're just envious! It's only the same as tradesmen doing a job for cash.." -"but it's looking like this might go to the heart government, with lots of Donors seemingly advised to use such schemes and give the proceeds to the Tories" -"Why do you always have to bring politics into it, it's nothing to do with that" -*sigh* (copied unashamedly from FB, but has a familiar ring) "We could all be so lucky. (Said imagining how many sex toys and latex the tax avoidance money would purchase) | |||
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"and I thought people wanted the Foreign Aid to stop and spend the money in the UK so it's okay for some to stave to death, just not us I don't want foreign aid to stop. I do want the budget imbalance caused by the rich and greedy to be fixed at their expense rather than squeezing the poor and vulnerable to death, as the debt increases anyway!" me neither. some people do but not me too. i don't like WHY the aid is given, with certain agendas and stipulations, but i do like global communism and benefits to those being held back by poverty. and that is how it is going now, global. global exposure of what is going on, global gathering together of people, anf global pushing for them to stop the madness and bullshit and to be fair. | |||
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"It's not tax avoidance! It's tax evasion. The whole point of the Panama schemes was holding companies and shell companies designed to look like "legit" business but in effect were illegally laundering money for the purposes of evading tax!. Camerons dad was evading tax for his clients doing the same thing!. . . There are genuine tax avoidance schemes like Jimmy carr was upto that are questionable on morality and maybe questionable on legality but these are not them!. The whole point of a tax heaven is to "hide" your money, just like the old Swiss bank account. Now passing money around via shell companies for the purpose of tax evasion is money laundering and it's a crime, AL Capone did life for it! It's. Not. Illegal.. . . Listen if you ever do make millions, listen to these words because ignorance of the law is no defence. It's illegal to launder money through shell companies for the purposes of evading tax. Another million actually.
I'm not sure where the "ignorance of the law" comment comes from or why you've thrown it in the mix.
Are people passing you random phrases to put into a post for comedy effect? You know, like buzzword bingo or something.
Can you point us all in the direction of the legislation that states; "It's illegal to launder money through shell companies for the purposes of evading tax." Better still, where the proof is that this has been done.
FYI, newspaper headlines are not proof.
.
AL Capone, life in prison!
Are you really saying your proof is an American gangster who died in 1947?
I've read it all now........
Ok smart arse go right ahead and do it here if you think it's legal!.
I'll come visit you honestly I will!.
Have you ever stopped and wondered why they were setting up shell companies in Panama and not Birmingham or London?.
Secrecy!... And why do you think you need secrecy if it's legal?
"Thanks for the compliment, backatcha. I don't need to do it or have any desire to do it. You keep saying it's illegal, all I'm asking is for you to show us the proof. Saying "Al Capone" isn't proof of illegal activity. If it was I'd counter with Bungle the Bear. I have a theory about why they keep it secret. It's nobodies fecking business. | |||
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"hahaha... focus on those points, it's ok. i love the way all this is going and the hypocrisy and the i would do it if i could, you'll never be able to do it though so what's the point in pretending you ever will and saying it's ok for them, yeah them, to do it and it's ok there's poor people starving to death because of them, them, them, it's ok people work hard all their lives and are honest citizens but they would be scum if allowed to or ever given the opportunity...hahaha witaf." I said all I wanted to say about tax avoidance on the other thread, so that's why I picked up on a new point. Of course I'm never going to fucking do it, I am never going to have that level of wealth for it to be worth my while putting complicated and expensive arrangements in place to minimise my tax bill. But you're the first to complain about dehumanising language being used about particular groups in society, so it just amused me that it's ok about one section of society and not another. (And yes, I'm sure they're crying into their gold plated cornflakes, but it's still incredibly hypocritical, even if they don't care.) As for poor people starving to death in the UK, any poor person who starves to death in the UK now has issues (mental health, physical health, addiction, lack of family support, for example) that mean they would also starve to death in a UK where we collected 100% of all taxes everyone owed and the public services were abundantly overflowing with spare cash. | |||
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"poor people starving to death, in the UK? yeah i believe we spoke about this recently and i am not gonna over take this topic with him. all because we didn't have people paying enough taxes so we had auaterity suts instead and these killed people. also look up calums list.
Cases of malnourishment are increasing rapidly. People are being hospitalised and it's definitely contributing to premature deaths."What bullshit. I'm sorry but we have first world poverty here, if you were that fucking hungry you could sit outside a supermarket begging and someone would buy you food within half an hour. I'm not saying it's ok for people to beg for food in this country but I hate those dramatic phrases spewed out by people who have clearly never travelled to a country where people actually starve to death. | |||
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"What bullshit. I'm sorry but we have first world poverty here, if you were that fucking hungry you could sit outside a supermarket begging and someone would buy you food within half an hour. I'm not saying it's ok for people to beg for food in this country but I hate those dramatic phrases spewed out by people who have clearly never travelled to a country where people actually starve to death. " So what's your position on UK tax policy? | |||
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"What bullshit. I'm sorry but we have first world poverty here, if you were that fucking hungry you could sit outside a supermarket begging and someone would buy you food within half an hour. I'm not saying it's ok for people to beg for food in this country but I hate those dramatic phrases spewed out by people who have clearly never travelled to a country where people actually starve to death. " One of the first cases I attended was a little old blind man. We were asked to pop by his house and see if he as ok. Went there, spoke to a friend called Stanley. Stanley helped the little old man with his washing and food, and benefits and shopping. Ok. We went away. On speck, a few weeks later, happened to try the doorbell again. This time we met the little old man, who let us in. First thing I noticed was the brown accretion of dust and grease that builds up over time... on every surface... My caseworking partner asked me to look in the fridge... which was full of dog food. And Stanley, nice, friendly helpful Stanley was robbing this blind man and feeding him dog food. That kind of poverty exists. | |||
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"What bullshit. I'm sorry but we have first world poverty here, if you were that fucking hungry you could sit outside a supermarket begging and someone would buy you food within half an hour. I'm not saying it's ok for people to beg for food in this country but I hate those dramatic phrases spewed out by people who have clearly never travelled to a country where people actually starve to death. One of the first cases I attended was a little old blind man. We were asked to pop by his house and see if he as ok. Went there, spoke to a friend called Stanley. Stanley helped the little old man with his washing and food, and benefits and shopping. Ok. We went away. On speck, a few weeks later, happened to try the doorbell again. This time we met the little old man, who let us in. First thing I noticed was the brown accretion of dust and grease that builds up over time... on every surface... My caseworking partner asked me to look in the fridge... which was full of dog food. And Stanley, nice, friendly helpful Stanley was robbing this blind man and feeding him dog food. That kind of poverty exists. " thats very sad, what help were you able to give him | |||
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"What bullshit. I'm sorry but we have first world poverty here, if you were that fucking hungry you could sit outside a supermarket begging and someone would buy you food within half an hour. I'm not saying it's ok for people to beg for food in this country but I hate those dramatic phrases spewed out by people who have clearly never travelled to a country where people actually starve to death. One of the first cases I attended was a little old blind man. We were asked to pop by his house and see if he as ok. Went there, spoke to a friend called Stanley. Stanley helped the little old man with his washing and food, and benefits and shopping. Ok. We went away. On speck, a few weeks later, happened to try the doorbell again. This time we met the little old man, who let us in. First thing I noticed was the brown accretion of dust and grease that builds up over time... on every surface... My caseworking partner asked me to look in the fridge... which was full of dog food. And Stanley, nice, friendly helpful Stanley was robbing this blind man and feeding him dog food. That kind of poverty exists. thats very sad, what help were you able to give him" We turned Stanley over to the cops and made sure he had a proper package of care that involved him being moved to sheltered a/c | |||
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"That kind of poverty exists. thats very sad, what help were you able to give him We turned Stanley over to the cops and made sure he* had a proper package of care that involved him being moved to sheltered a/c" * the client | |||
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"What bullshit. I'm sorry but we have first world poverty here, if you were that fucking hungry you could sit outside a supermarket begging and someone would buy you food within half an hour. I'm not saying it's ok for people to beg for food in this country but I hate those dramatic phrases spewed out by people who have clearly never travelled to a country where people actually starve to death. One of the first cases I attended was a little old blind man. We were asked to pop by his house and see if he as ok. Went there, spoke to a friend called Stanley. Stanley helped the little old man with his washing and food, and benefits and shopping. Ok. We went away. On speck, a few weeks later, happened to try the doorbell again. This time we met the little old man, who let us in. First thing I noticed was the brown accretion of dust and grease that builds up over time... on every surface... My caseworking partner asked me to look in the fridge... which was full of dog food. And Stanley, nice, friendly helpful Stanley was robbing this blind man and feeding him dog food. That kind of poverty exists. thats very sad, what help were you able to give him We turned Stanley over to the cops and made sure he had a proper package of care that involved him being moved to sheltered a/c" well done | |||
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"What bullshit. I'm sorry but we have first world poverty here, if you were that fucking hungry you could sit outside a supermarket begging and someone would buy you food within half an hour. I'm not saying it's ok for people to beg for food in this country but I hate those dramatic phrases spewed out by people who have clearly never travelled to a country where people actually starve to death. One of the first cases I attended was a little old blind man. We were asked to pop by his house and see if he as ok. Went there, spoke to a friend called Stanley. Stanley helped the little old man with his washing and food, and benefits and shopping. Ok. We went away. On speck, a few weeks later, happened to try the doorbell again. This time we met the little old man, who let us in. First thing I noticed was the brown accretion of dust and grease that builds up over time... on every surface... My caseworking partner asked me to look in the fridge... which was full of dog food. And Stanley, nice, friendly helpful Stanley was robbing this blind man and feeding him dog food. That kind of poverty exists. " I once knew a man who had a friend who got robbed walking home from work. It's nothing to do with government cuts through. Doesn't mean the UK is turning into syria now does it. | |||
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"I once knew a man who had a friend who got robbed walking home from work. It's nothing to do with government cuts through. Doesn't mean the UK is turning into syria now does it. " Lovely. So what's your take on UK tax policy? Good Thing or Bad Thing? | |||
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"you think that sort of poverty doesn't exist, but the fact is that when an autopsy has shown some people have died of starvation while in poverty then it becomes a fact. just the same as how it happens in the poorer war torn countries. except over here we won't have learned the skill to survive on eating flies and ants or other native foods that exist in our habitat." You don't need to eat flies ffs, as I say, if you are that hungry then use a food bank / beg. There's enough tax money being paid to provide for people that legitimately can't look after themselves. If they aren't getting that help then that's because the system isn't working properly, not because there isn't enough money in it. If you can look after yourself people will literally give you food in this country because it's cheap and plentiful. | |||
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"deniers. who's the conspiracy theorists now?" Walk down the high street and you'll see this country has a much bigger problem with obesity than starvation. | |||
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"you think that sort of poverty doesn't exist, but the fact is that when an autopsy has shown some people have died of starvation while in poverty then it becomes a fact. just the same as how it happens in the poorer war torn countries. except over here we won't have learned the skill to survive on eating flies and ants or other native foods that exist in our habitat. You don't need to eat flies ffs, as I say, if you are that hungry then use a food bank / beg. There's enough tax money being paid to provide for people that legitimately can't look after themselves. If they aren't getting that help then that's because the system isn't working properly, not because there isn't enough money in it. If you can look after yourself people will literally give you food in this country because it's cheap and plentiful." Which is why food banks have become so popular? http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/apr/22/food-bank-users-uk-low-paid-workers-poverty | |||
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"deniers. who's the conspiracy theorists now? Walk down the high street and you'll see this country has a much bigger problem with obesity than starvation." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_htmQTbgms | |||
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"you think that sort of poverty doesn't exist, but the fact is that when an autopsy has shown some people have died of starvation while in poverty then it becomes a fact. just the same as how it happens in the poorer war torn countries. except over here we won't have learned the skill to survive on eating flies and ants or other native foods that exist in our habitat. You don't need to eat flies ffs, as I say, if you are that hungry then use a food bank / beg. There's enough tax money being paid to provide for people that legitimately can't look after themselves. If they aren't getting that help then that's because the system isn't working properly, not because there isn't enough money in it. If you can look after yourself people will literally give you food in this country because it's cheap and plentiful." thankyou that middle paragraph... the austerity cuts were supposed to be because we cannot afford everything using the tax we are taking in now. that is the link here. they decided to make cuts to the most vulnerable in cruel ways. the system is failing, for more reasons than just money, but yeah it failed a fair amount of people because of their lack of access to anything and being denied knowledge of what help they are entitled to (this happens a fair bit to save money). | |||
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"you think that sort of poverty doesn't exist, but the fact is that when an autopsy has shown some people have died of starvation while in poverty then it becomes a fact. just the same as how it happens in the poorer war torn countries. except over here we won't have learned the skill to survive on eating flies and ants or other native foods that exist in our habitat. You don't need to eat flies ffs, as I say, if you are that hungry then use a food bank / beg. There's enough tax money being paid to provide for people that legitimately can't look after themselves. If they aren't getting that help then that's because the system isn't working properly, not because there isn't enough money in it. If you can look after yourself people will literally give you food in this country because it's cheap and plentiful. thankyou that middle paragraph... the austerity cuts were supposed to be because we cannot afford everything using the tax we are taking in now. that is the link here. they decided to make cuts to the most vulnerable in cruel ways. the system is failing, for more reasons than just money, but yeah it failed a fair amount of people because of their lack of access to anything and being denied knowledge of what help they are entitled to (this happens a fair bit to save money). " The UK government had £111.1bn for welfare alone last year. If they can't feed everyone who can't feed themself, in a country of 60 odd million people on that fecking budget then I'd say more money isn't the answer. Do you honestly think that there are enough MPs who just sit around trying to think of ways to fuck over vulnerable people? As in the agenda for Mondays meeting looks like: 9am - 10am let's stick pins into baby rabbits 10am - 11am find new ways to harm the disabled 11am - lunch go shoot dogs ... And that also, enough people don't know or care about these meetings thay they continue to vote them into government. Now we actually agree that the government is less than stellar in its performance, but my default assumption would be incompetence rather than evil intent. | |||
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"The prime minister of Iceland has resigned - the first major casualty of the Panama Papers leaks which have shed an embarrassing spotlight on the world of offshore finance. Cameron is keeping quiet & gone into hiding (who mentioned £30 million wealth) "I thought he said that he had nothing offshore, he was asked questions earlier and he answered, Mr Cameron that is | |||
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"It's not tax avoidance! It's tax evasion. The whole point of the Panama schemes was holding companies and shell companies designed to look like "legit" business but in effect were illegally laundering money for the purposes of evading tax!. Camerons dad was evading tax for his clients doing the same thing!. . . There are genuine tax avoidance schemes like Jimmy carr was upto that are questionable on morality and maybe questionable on legality but these are not them!. The whole point of a tax heaven is to "hide" your money, just like the old Swiss bank account. Now passing money around via shell companies for the purpose of tax evasion is money laundering and it's a crime, AL Capone did life for it! It's. Not. Illegal.. . . Listen if you ever do make millions, listen to these words because ignorance of the law is no defence. It's illegal to launder money through shell companies for the purposes of evading tax. Another million actually.
I'm not sure where the "ignorance of the law" comment comes from or why you've thrown it in the mix.
Are people passing you random phrases to put into a post for comedy effect? You know, like buzzword bingo or something.
Can you point us all in the direction of the legislation that states; "It's illegal to launder money through shell companies for the purposes of evading tax." Better still, where the proof is that this has been done.
FYI, newspaper headlines are not proof.
.
AL Capone, life in prison!
Are you really saying your proof is an American gangster who died in 1947?
I've read it all now........
Ok smart arse go right ahead and do it here if you think it's legal!.
I'll come visit you honestly I will!.
Have you ever stopped and wondered why they were setting up shell companies in Panama and not Birmingham or London?.
Secrecy!... And why do you think you need secrecy if it's legal?
Thanks for the compliment, backatcha. I don't need to do it or have any desire to do it. You keep saying it's illegal, all I'm asking is for you to show us the proof.
Saying "Al Capone" isn't proof of illegal activity. If it was I'd counter with Bungle the Bear.
I have a theory about why they keep it secret. It's nobodies fecking business.". Honestly, your just one of those people who endure being obtuse for nothing more than being it!. . . This advice from the hmrc. . . the tax benefits or returns are out of proportion to any real economic activity, expense or investment risk the scheme involves arrangements which seem very complex, given what you want to do the scheme involves artificial or contrived arrangements the scheme involves money going around in a circle, back to where it started the scheme promoter either provides any funding needed to make the scheme work or arranges for it to be made available by another party offshore companies or trusts are involved for no sound commercial reason a tax haven or banking secrecy country is involved the scheme contains exit arrangements designed to side-step tax consequences there are secrecy or confidentiality agreements upfront fees are payable or the arrangement is on a "no win, no fee" basis | |||
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"The prime minister of Iceland has resigned - the first major casualty of the Panama Papers leaks which have shed an embarrassing spotlight on the world of offshore finance. Cameron is keeping quiet & gone into hiding (who mentioned £30 million wealth) ". I offered 5 for 10 he'd be gone... Nobody took me up on it... Even the guy who swears it's legal!! | |||
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"The prime minister of Iceland has resigned - the first major casualty of the Panama Papers leaks which have shed an embarrassing spotlight on the world of offshore finance. Cameron is keeping quiet & gone into hiding (who mentioned £30 million wealth)
I thought he said that he had nothing offshore, he was asked questions earlier and he answered, Mr Cameron that is"yup, he was on The News | |||
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"The prime minister of Iceland has resigned - the first major casualty of the Panama Papers leaks which have shed an embarrassing spotlight on the world of offshore finance. Cameron is keeping quiet & gone into hiding (who mentioned £30 million wealth)
I thought he said that he had nothing offshore, he was asked questions earlier and he answered, Mr Cameron that is"I just heard his answer, nothing was the answer. Sounded pretty clear to me, I'm guessing you heard the same. | |||
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"It's not tax avoidance! It's tax evasion. The whole point of the Panama schemes was holding companies and shell companies designed to look like "legit" business but in effect were illegally laundering money for the purposes of evading tax!. Camerons dad was evading tax for his clients doing the same thing!. . . There are genuine tax avoidance schemes like Jimmy carr was upto that are questionable on morality and maybe questionable on legality but these are not them!. The whole point of a tax heaven is to "hide" your money, just like the old Swiss bank account. Now passing money around via shell companies for the purpose of tax evasion is money laundering and it's a crime, AL Capone did life for it! It's. Not. Illegal.. . . Listen if you ever do make millions, listen to these words because ignorance of the law is no defence. It's illegal to launder money through shell companies for the purposes of evading tax. Another million actually.
I'm not sure where the "ignorance of the law" comment comes from or why you've thrown it in the mix.
Are people passing you random phrases to put into a post for comedy effect? You know, like buzzword bingo or something.
Can you point us all in the direction of the legislation that states; "It's illegal to launder money through shell companies for the purposes of evading tax." Better still, where the proof is that this has been done.
FYI, newspaper headlines are not proof.
.
AL Capone, life in prison!
Are you really saying your proof is an American gangster who died in 1947?
I've read it all now........
Ok smart arse go right ahead and do it here if you think it's legal!.
I'll come visit you honestly I will!.
Have you ever stopped and wondered why they were setting up shell companies in Panama and not Birmingham or London?.
Secrecy!... And why do you think you need secrecy if it's legal?
Thanks for the compliment, backatcha. I don't need to do it or have any desire to do it. You keep saying it's illegal, all I'm asking is for you to show us the proof.
Saying "Al Capone" isn't proof of illegal activity. If it was I'd counter with Bungle the Bear.
I have a theory about why they keep it secret. It's nobodies fecking business..
Honestly, your just one of those people who endure being obtuse for nothing more than being it!.
.
.
This advice from the hmrc.
.
.
the tax benefits or returns are out of proportion to any real economic activity, expense or investment risk
the scheme involves arrangements which seem very complex, given what you want to do
the scheme involves artificial or contrived arrangements
the scheme involves money going around in a circle, back to where it started
the scheme promoter either provides any funding needed to make the scheme work or arranges for it to be made available by another party
offshore companies or trusts are involved for no sound commercial reason
a tax haven or banking secrecy country is involved
the scheme contains exit arrangements designed to side-step tax consequences
there are secrecy or confidentiality agreements
upfront fees are payable or the arrangement is on a "no win, no fee" basis"Well done in finding the proof. What you actually found was, and I quote your own post; "This advice from the hmrc". Still waiting for your proof. So far we've had Al Capone and advice from the taxman. Waiting....... *taps foot. | |||
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"you think that sort of poverty doesn't exist, but the fact is that when an autopsy has shown some people have died of starvation while in poverty then it becomes a fact. just the same as how it happens in the poorer war torn countries. except over here we won't have learned the skill to survive on eating flies and ants or other native foods that exist in our habitat. You don't need to eat flies ffs, as I say, if you are that hungry then use a food bank / beg. There's enough tax money being paid to provide for people that legitimately can't look after themselves. If they aren't getting that help then that's because the system isn't working properly, not because there isn't enough money in it. If you can look after yourself people will literally give you food in this country because it's cheap and plentiful. thankyou that middle paragraph... the austerity cuts were supposed to be because we cannot afford everything using the tax we are taking in now. that is the link here. they decided to make cuts to the most vulnerable in cruel ways. the system is failing, for more reasons than just money, but yeah it failed a fair amount of people because of their lack of access to anything and being denied knowledge of what help they are entitled to (this happens a fair bit to save money). The UK government had £111.1bn for welfare alone last year. If they can't feed everyone who can't feed themself, in a country of 60 odd million people on that fecking budget then I'd say more money isn't the answer. Do you honestly think that there are enough MPs who just sit around trying to think of ways to fuck over vulnerable people? As in the agenda for Mondays meeting looks like: 9am - 10am let's stick pins into baby rabbits 10am - 11am find new ways to harm the disabled 11am - lunch go shoot dogs ... And that also, enough people don't know or care about these meetings thay they continue to vote them into government. Now we actually agree that the government is less than stellar in its performance, but my default assumption would be incompetence rather than evil intent. " The vast majority of that fucking money goes to pensioners
Pensions are not "welfare" but it's classed that way so the government can say look at the huge amount we spend on welfare!
Most of that "welfare" is a savings scheme paid into over 50 years of work.
Bloody welfare indeed. | |||
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"deniers. who's the conspiracy theorists now?" Smug people who're fine thank you Jack. Ever was it thus. | |||
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"poor people starving to death, in the UK? yeah i believe we spoke about this recently and i am not gonna over take this topic with him. all because we didn't have people paying enough taxes so we had auaterity suts instead and these killed people. also look up calums list.
Cases of malnourishment are increasing rapidly. People are being hospitalised and it's definitely contributing to premature deaths.
What bullshit. I'm sorry but we have first world poverty here, if you were that fucking hungry you could sit outside a supermarket begging and someone would buy you food within half an hour. I'm not saying it's ok for people to beg for food in this country but I hate those dramatic phrases spewed out by people who have clearly never travelled to a country where people actually starve to death. "Try it. See if anyone buys you food. You're more likely to be assaulted and/or moved on by the police. You live in a fantasy world, sheltered from what's actually happening. | |||
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"and I thought people wanted the Foreign Aid to stop and spend the money in the UK so it's okay for some to stave to death, just not us I don't want foreign aid to stop. I do want the budget imbalance caused by the rich and greedy to be fixed at their expense rather than squeezing the poor and vulnerable to death, as the debt increases anyway! lobby your MP "Tory. "Rising star" Tory. 'nuff said. | |||
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"and I thought people wanted the Foreign Aid to stop and spend the money in the UK so it's okay for some to stave to death, just not us I don't want foreign aid to stop. I do want the budget imbalance caused by the rich and greedy to be fixed at their expense rather than squeezing the poor and vulnerable to death, as the debt increases anyway! lobby your MP
Tory. "Rising star" Tory. 'buff said." good to hear people are coming through the ranks | |||
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"poor people starving to death, in the UK? yeah i believe we spoke about this recently and i am not gonna over take this topic with him. all because we didn't have people paying enough taxes so we had auaterity suts instead and these killed people. also look up calums list.
Cases of malnourishment are increasing rapidly. People are being hospitalised and it's definitely contributing to premature deaths.
What bullshit. I'm sorry but we have first world poverty here, if you were that fucking hungry you could sit outside a supermarket begging and someone would buy you food within half an hour. I'm not saying it's ok for people to beg for food in this country but I hate those dramatic phrases spewed out by people who have clearly never travelled to a country where people actually starve to death.
Try it. See if anyone buys you food.
You're more likely to be assaulted and/or moved on by the police.
You live in a fantasy world, sheltered from what's actually happening."No I have bought food for people that asked on many occasions. In fact I've never denied anyone who asked for food as opposed to drug money. Maybe you should travel a bit and see what a real poor country looks like where people actually starve to death. | |||
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"The prime minister of Iceland has resigned - the first major casualty of the Panama Papers leaks which have shed an embarrassing spotlight on the world of offshore finance. Cameron is keeping quiet & gone into hiding (who mentioned £30 million wealth)
I thought he said that he had nothing offshore, he was asked questions earlier and he answered, Mr Cameron that is"given that his father has been one of those named, one would like to think after this issue is investigated that anyone who has benefited as Cameron and others may have done through inheritance will pay back what is due.. or will that not apply ..? | |||
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"The prime minister of Iceland has resigned - the first major casualty of the Panama Papers leaks which have shed an embarrassing spotlight on the world of offshore finance. Cameron is keeping quiet & gone into hiding (who mentioned £30 million wealth)
I thought he said that he had nothing offshore, he was asked questions earlier and he answered, Mr Cameron that is
given that his father has been one of those named, one would like to think after this issue is investigated that anyone who has benefited as Cameron and others may have done through inheritance will pay back what is due..
or will that not apply ..?"no idea, I just answered the point that he had gone into hiding and said nothing. I am happy to wait until any investigation is complete and any recommendations set | |||
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"First World Poverty. i.e. If you live in Britain and are poor, it's your own fault, loser!! Who the hell came up with that piece of dehumanising crap? " You did! | |||
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Tis a funny old world. | |||
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"First World Poverty. i.e. If you live in Britain and are poor, it's your own fault, loser!! Who the hell came up with that piece of dehumanising crap? You did! " Quote of the thread. Actually quote of the day. Possibly quote of the week. | |||
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"First World Poverty. i.e. If you live in Britain and are poor, it's your own fault, loser!! Who the hell came up with that piece of dehumanising crap? You did! Quote of the thread. Actually quote of the day. Possibly quote of the week. "Don;t you start lol | |||
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"First World Poverty. i.e. If you live in Britain and are poor, it's your own fault, loser!! Who the hell came up with that piece of dehumanising crap? You did! Quote of the thread. Actually quote of the day. Possibly quote of the week.
Don;t you start lol"I thought you'd appreciate a short post response...... | |||
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"The prime minister of Iceland has resigned - the first major casualty of the Panama Papers leaks which have shed an embarrassing spotlight on the world of offshore finance. Cameron is keeping quiet & gone into hiding (who mentioned £30 million wealth)
I thought he said that he had nothing offshore, he was asked questions earlier and he answered, Mr Cameron that is
given that his father has been one of those named, one would like to think after this issue is investigated that anyone who has benefited as Cameron and others may have done through inheritance will pay back what is due..
or will that not apply ..?"FFS, how would any possible sins of the father be the responsibility of the son. I've read some dreadful shite on here sometimes, I have no biscuits left to be taken. | |||
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"I thought you'd appreciate a short post response...... "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fK8mneO8yvU | |||
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"I thought you'd appreciate a short post response......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fK8mneO8yvU
" | |||
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"The prime minister of Iceland has resigned - the first major casualty of the Panama Papers leaks which have shed an embarrassing spotlight on the world of offshore finance. Cameron is keeping quiet & gone into hiding (who mentioned £30 million wealth)
I thought he said that he had nothing offshore, he was asked questions earlier and he answered, Mr Cameron that is
given that his father has been one of those named, one would like to think after this issue is investigated that anyone who has benefited as Cameron and others may have done through inheritance will pay back what is due..
or will that not apply ..?
FFS, how would any possible sins of the father be the responsibility of the son.
I've read some dreadful shite on here sometimes, I have no biscuits left to be taken.
"clearly your being obtuse or you've not read it properly..? i did't say it was the responsibility of the son however the principles of the proceeds of crime act may well apply ..? or is that only when the state seeks recovery from drug dealers and not the inheritances left from illegal tax evasion of albeit deceased fathers of serving PM's..? if proven of course.. | |||
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"It's not tax avoidance! It's tax evasion. The whole point of the Panama schemes was holding companies and shell companies designed to look like "legit" business but in effect were illegally laundering money for the purposes of evading tax!. Camerons dad was evading tax for his clients doing the same thing!. . . There are genuine tax avoidance schemes like Jimmy carr was upto that are questionable on morality and maybe questionable on legality but these are not them!. The whole point of a tax heaven is to "hide" your money, just like the old Swiss bank account. Now passing money around via shell companies for the purpose of tax evasion is money laundering and it's a crime, AL Capone did life for it! It's. Not. Illegal.. . . Listen if you ever do make millions, listen to these words because ignorance of the law is no defence. It's illegal to launder money through shell companies for the purposes of evading tax. Another million actually.
I'm not sure where the "ignorance of the law" comment comes from or why you've thrown it in the mix.
Are people passing you random phrases to put into a post for comedy effect? You know, like buzzword bingo or something.
Can you point us all in the direction of the legislation that states; "It's illegal to launder money through shell companies for the purposes of evading tax." Better still, where the proof is that this has been done.
FYI, newspaper headlines are not proof.
.
AL Capone, life in prison!
Are you really saying your proof is an American gangster who died in 1947?
I've read it all now........
Ok smart arse go right ahead and do it here if you think it's legal!.
I'll come visit you honestly I will!.
Have you ever stopped and wondered why they were setting up shell companies in Panama and not Birmingham or London?.
Secrecy!... And why do you think you need secrecy if it's legal?
Thanks for the compliment, backatcha. I don't need to do it or have any desire to do it. You keep saying it's illegal, all I'm asking is for you to show us the proof.
Saying "Al Capone" isn't proof of illegal activity. If it was I'd counter with Bungle the Bear.
I have a theory about why they keep it secret. It's nobodies fecking business..
Honestly, your just one of those people who endure being obtuse for nothing more than being it!.
.
.
This advice from the hmrc.
.
.
the tax benefits or returns are out of proportion to any real economic activity, expense or investment risk
the scheme involves arrangements which seem very complex, given what you want to do
the scheme involves artificial or contrived arrangements
the scheme involves money going around in a circle, back to where it started
the scheme promoter either provides any funding needed to make the scheme work or arranges for it to be made available by another party
offshore companies or trusts are involved for no sound commercial reason
a tax haven or banking secrecy country is involved
the scheme contains exit arrangements designed to side-step tax consequences
there are secrecy or confidentiality agreements
upfront fees are payable or the arrangement is on a "no win, no fee" basis
Well done in finding the proof.
What you actually found was, and I quote your own post;
"This advice from the hmrc".
Still waiting for your proof.
So far we've had Al Capone and advice from the taxman.
Waiting.......
*taps foot.". Yeah well you can tap your foot all day long. I've done debating with you! | |||
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"The prime minister of Iceland has resigned - the first major casualty of the Panama Papers leaks which have shed an embarrassing spotlight on the world of offshore finance. Cameron is keeping quiet & gone into hiding (who mentioned £30 million wealth)
I thought he said that he had nothing offshore, he was asked questions earlier and he answered, Mr Cameron that is
given that his father has been one of those named, one would like to think after this issue is investigated that anyone who has benefited as Cameron and others may have done through inheritance will pay back what is due..
or will that not apply ..?
FFS, how would any possible sins of the father be the responsibility of the son.
I've read some dreadful shite on here sometimes, I have no biscuits left to be taken.
clearly your being obtuse or you've not read it properly..?
i did't say it was the responsibility of the son however the principles of the proceeds of crime act may well apply ..?
or is that only when the state seeks recovery from drug dealers and not the inheritances left from illegal tax evasion of albeit deceased fathers of serving PM's..?
if proven of course..
"It's entirely possible that I missconstrued your post, if so I'm happy to apologise. When you said; "given that his father has been one of those named, one would like to think after this issue is investigated that anyone who has benefited as Cameron and others may have done through inheritance will pay back what is due.." I thought you were implying that if Cameron senior had made a lot of money through dodgy dealing and that if Cameron junior had inherited said money, he should pay it back. Hence my question; how would any possible sins of the father be the responsibility of the son? Apologies if I didn't understand your point. | |||
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"Hence my question; how would any possible sins of the father be the responsibility of the son? Apologies if I didn't understand your point." I agree and don't think they are his sins personally. But committing crime is a bit different than personal responsibility. Stolen things have to be given back to their rightful owners. Even if you were ignorant of the fact that something was stolen before it is given to you or you buy it. It's still stolen and you cannot legally own it. | |||
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"Hence my question; how would any possible sins of the father be the responsibility of the son? Apologies if I didn't understand your point. I agree and don't think they are his sins personally. But committing crime is a bit different than personal responsibility. Stolen things have to be given back to their rightful owners. Even if you were ignorant of the fact that something was stolen before it is given to you or you buy it. It's still stolen and you cannot legally own it." What's been stolen? | |||
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"Hence my question; how would any possible sins of the father be the responsibility of the son? Apologies if I didn't understand your point. I agree and don't think they are his sins personally. But committing crime is a bit different than personal responsibility. Stolen things have to be given back to their rightful owners. Even if you were ignorant of the fact that something was stolen before it is given to you or you buy it. It's still stolen and you cannot legally own it. What's been stolen?" They should just do the right thing. Hard working tax payers. erm... | |||
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"At least the posts are getting shorter" It won't last. I think I can stop tapping my foot now though. | |||
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"... What's been stolen?" Potentially, the tax due on assets and revenue. If DC's dad evaded tax and then DC inherited some of the money, DC should have to pay back the tax that his dad evaded. | |||
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"... What's been stolen? Potentially, the tax due on assets and revenue. If DC's dad evaded tax and then DC inherited some of the money, DC should have to pay back the tax that his dad evaded." Nothing actually stolen then | |||
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"... What's been stolen? Potentially, the tax due on assets and revenue. If DC's dad evaded tax and then DC inherited some of the money, DC should have to pay back the tax that his dad evaded. Nothing actually stolen then" . No technically it's fraud. Of course that carries a bigger sentence than stealing so he might prefer it! | |||
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"The prime minister of Iceland has resigned - the first major casualty of the Panama Papers leaks which have shed an embarrassing spotlight on the world of offshore finance. Cameron is keeping quiet & gone into hiding (who mentioned £30 million wealth)
I thought he said that he had nothing offshore, he was asked questions earlier and he answered, Mr Cameron that is
given that his father has been one of those named, one would like to think after this issue is investigated that anyone who has benefited as Cameron and others may have done through inheritance will pay back what is due..
or will that not apply ..?
FFS, how would any possible sins of the father be the responsibility of the son.
I've read some dreadful shite on here sometimes, I have no biscuits left to be taken.
clearly your being obtuse or you've not read it properly..?
i did't say it was the responsibility of the son however the principles of the proceeds of crime act may well apply ..?
or is that only when the state seeks recovery from drug dealers and not the inheritances left from illegal tax evasion of albeit deceased fathers of serving PM's..?
if proven of course..
It's entirely possible that I missconstrued your post, if so I'm happy to apologise.
When you said;
"given that his father has been one of those named, one would like to think after this issue is investigated that anyone who has benefited as Cameron and others may have done through inheritance will pay back what is due.."
I thought you were implying that if Cameron senior had made a lot of money through dodgy dealing and that if Cameron junior had inherited said money, he should pay it back.
Hence my question; how would any possible sins of the father be the responsibility of the son?
Apologies if I didn't understand your point."fair point, not saying Cameron is in any way 'responsible' however if and its a big if its proven that anyone has profited through unlawful actions then that falls within the remit or principle of the proceeds of crime act.. whether that person is still on this mortal coil and has said funds under the bed or in a form where they've been 'cleaned up' then yes i believe there should be some form of redress for the holder of that gained.. its no different to stashing the nicked telly in someone's lock up, its still nicked etc.. and to clarify i would expect it for anyone regardless whether they are a politician or not.. i can't see how anyone would disagree with that premise.. | |||
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"... What's been stolen? Potentially, the tax due on assets and revenue. If DC's dad evaded tax and then DC inherited some of the money, DC should have to pay back the tax that his dad evaded. Nothing actually stolen then. No technically it's fraud. Of course that carries a bigger sentence than stealing so he might prefer it!" That might be true, but not actually David Cameron's crime? Didn't someone comment about not visiting the sins of the father on the son?  | |||
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"... What's been stolen? Potentially, the tax due on assets and revenue. If DC's dad evaded tax and then DC inherited some of the money, DC should have to pay back the tax that his dad evaded. Nothing actually stolen then. No technically it's fraud. Of course that carries a bigger sentence than stealing so he might prefer it! That might be true, but not actually David Cameron's crime? Didn't someone comment about not visiting the sins of the father on the son? "if say i nick some gold bullion and ask you to hold onto it then i pop my clogs and you get caught with it you still have it, ok one could say honest guv i had no idea Surrey didn't own it and maybe get away with holding the stolen property.. if after i pop my clogs you spend some of it then your pretty much bang to rights i would suggest.. | |||
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"... What's been stolen? Potentially, the tax due on assets and revenue. If DC's dad evaded tax and then DC inherited some of the money, DC should have to pay back the tax that his dad evaded. Nothing actually stolen then. No technically it's fraud. Of course that carries a bigger sentence than stealing so he might prefer it!" at what point, and where, does the fraud take place? | |||
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"... What's been stolen? Potentially, the tax due on assets and revenue. If DC's dad evaded tax and then DC inherited some of the money, DC should have to pay back the tax that his dad evaded. Nothing actually stolen then. No technically it's fraud. Of course that carries a bigger sentence than stealing so he might prefer it! That might be true, but not actually David Cameron's crime? Didn't someone comment about not visiting the sins of the father on the son?
if say i nick some gold bullion and ask you to hold onto it then i pop my clogs and you get caught with it you still have it, ok one could say honest guv i had no idea Surrey didn't own it and maybe get away with holding the stolen property..
if after i pop my clogs you spend some of it then your pretty much bang to rights i would suggest.. "So, about this gold you're looking after......
You say stolen, the doors says fraud, no one knows what's happened, there's no hard evidence, no investigation, no charges, no trial, no conviction, no sentence, just lots of wishful thinking from people who don't like him.
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"... What's been stolen? Potentially, the tax due on assets and revenue. If DC's dad evaded tax and then DC inherited some of the money, DC should have to pay back the tax that his dad evaded. Nothing actually stolen then. No technically it's fraud. Of course that carries a bigger sentence than stealing so he might prefer it! at what point, and where, does the fraud take place?" Tuesday, back of the Red Lion, behind the bins. Shhhhhhhhhhhh | |||
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"... What's been stolen? Potentially, the tax due on assets and revenue. If DC's dad evaded tax and then DC inherited some of the money, DC should have to pay back the tax that his dad evaded. Nothing actually stolen then. No technically it's fraud. Of course that carries a bigger sentence than stealing so he might prefer it! at what point, and where, does the fraud take place? Tuesday, back of the Red Lion, behind the bins. Shhhhhhhhhhhh" Just off to the Red Lion to check for gold ....... | |||
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"... What's been stolen? Potentially, the tax due on assets and revenue. If DC's dad evaded tax and then DC inherited some of the money, DC should have to pay back the tax that his dad evaded. Nothing actually stolen then. No technically it's fraud. Of course that carries a bigger sentence than stealing so he might prefer it! That might be true, but not actually David Cameron's crime? Didn't someone comment about not visiting the sins of the father on the son?
if say i nick some gold bullion and ask you to hold onto it then i pop my clogs and you get caught with it you still have it, ok one could say honest guv i had no idea Surrey didn't own it and maybe get away with holding the stolen property..
if after i pop my clogs you spend some of it then your pretty much bang to rights i would suggest..
So, about this gold you're looking after......
You say stolen, the doors says fraud, no one knows what's happened, there's no hard evidence, no investigation, no charges, no trial, no conviction, no sentence, just lots of wishful thinking from people who don't like him.
"'if its proven' 'basically anyone regardless of whether they are politicians or not' both of those i've stated above.. and yes at the moment its a lot of speculation until more is revealed, hence its a debate.. someone like Cameron is bound to attract a lot of attention given his all in it together, the austerity which has affected some etc.. where this to have taken place under Tony the shifty eyed car salesman Blair' my stance would be the same.. and equally some would prevaricate and be pedantic to the nth degree in defence of the latter also.. twas ever thus.. anyway can i have me gold back please, i'm due to meet a nice man in Nassau who lives in the next village here but we can't sort out my affairs in this country.. | |||
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"... What's been stolen? Potentially, the tax due on assets and revenue. If DC's dad evaded tax and then DC inherited some of the money, DC should have to pay back the tax that his dad evaded. Nothing actually stolen then. No technically it's fraud. Of course that carries a bigger sentence than stealing so he might prefer it! at what point, and where, does the fraud take place? Tuesday, back of the Red Lion, behind the bins. Shhhhhhhhhhhh Just off to the Red Lion to check for gold ....... "do they still do mild on tap..? | |||
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"... What's been stolen? Potentially, the tax due on assets and revenue. If DC's dad evaded tax and then DC inherited some of the money, DC should have to pay back the tax that his dad evaded. Nothing actually stolen then. No technically it's fraud. Of course that carries a bigger sentence than stealing so he might prefer it! at what point, and where, does the fraud take place?" . Tax evasion is fraud!. Profiting from crime was made an offence awhile back, proceeds of crime have to be paid back. You can't just give your Loot to your parents or your children and say... Ahh well I've spent it!. . . Nobody is saying he's committed tax evasion, there just saying it looks like he may have!. His scheme literally fits every definition on the hmrc website of "problem areas". | |||
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"If all this information has been obtained by illegal means (news reports now stating the leak was in fact an illegal hack), the details may not be able to be used for further investigation/legal cases??" Investigative journalism isn't illegal if it's in the public interest... | |||
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"If all this information has been obtained by illegal means (news reports now stating the leak was in fact an illegal hack), the details may not be able to be used for further investigation/legal cases??" entirely possible.. but the mud will still stick and for politicians etc that's going to stain.. | |||
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"... What's been stolen? Potentially, the tax due on assets and revenue. If DC's dad evaded tax and then DC inherited some of the money, DC should have to pay back the tax that his dad evaded. Nothing actually stolen then. No technically it's fraud. Of course that carries a bigger sentence than stealing so he might prefer it! at what point, and where, does the fraud take place?. Tax evasion is fraud!. Profiting from crime was made an offence awhile back, proceeds of crime have to be paid back. You can't just give your Loot to your parents or your children and say... Ahh well I've spent it!. . . Nobody is saying he's committed tax evasion, there just saying it looks like he may have!. His scheme literally fits every definition on the hmrc website of "problem areas". " Tax evasion only occurs when there is in fact tax to be paid. | |||
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"... What's been stolen? Potentially, the tax due on assets and revenue. If DC's dad evaded tax and then DC inherited some of the money, DC should have to pay back the tax that his dad evaded. Nothing actually stolen then. No technically it's fraud. Of course that carries a bigger sentence than stealing so he might prefer it! at what point, and where, does the fraud take place?. Tax evasion is fraud!. Profiting from crime was made an offence awhile back, proceeds of crime have to be paid back. You can't just give your Loot to your parents or your children and say... Ahh well I've spent it!. . . Nobody is saying he's committed tax evasion, there just saying it looks like he may have!. His scheme literally fits every definition on the hmrc website of "problem areas". Tax evasion only occurs when there is in fact tax to be paid. " . Exactly, hopefully somewhere in the 11 million documents that's been leaked, evidence either way over the 215,000 shell company's created will it be sorted!. What I'm saying is it's highly likely that tax evasion occurred! | |||
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"If all this information has been obtained by illegal means (news reports now stating the leak was in fact an illegal hack), the details may not be able to be used for further investigation/legal cases??" . Woodward and Bernstein had the same accusations. It didn't stick, journalists are allowed to keep their sources private | |||
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"If all this information has been obtained by illegal means (news reports now stating the leak was in fact an illegal hack), the details may not be able to be used for further investigation/legal cases??" You can see this in the USA lawyers are prolly already working on it now LoL | |||
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"... Nobody is saying he's committed tax evasion, there just saying it looks like he may have!. His scheme literally fits every definition on the hmrc website of "problem areas". Tax evasion only occurs when there is in fact tax to be paid. . Exactly, hopefully somewhere in the 11 million documents that's been leaked, evidence either way over the 215,000 shell company's created will it be sorted!. What I'm saying is it's highly likely that tax evasion occurred!" I think it unlikely. I also think the status of this being a leak or not will greatly affect the outcome for any future legal cases. | |||
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"... Nobody is saying he's committed tax evasion, there just saying it looks like he may have!. His scheme literally fits every definition on the hmrc website of "problem areas". Tax evasion only occurs when there is in fact tax to be paid. . Exactly, hopefully somewhere in the 11 million documents that's been leaked, evidence either way over the 215,000 shell company's created will it be sorted!. What I'm saying is it's highly likely that tax evasion occurred! I think it unlikely. I also think the status of this being a leak or not will greatly affect the outcome for any future legal cases. " . That's OK we differ in opinion about why and how the scheme existed and it's legality's. I'm sure it will come to light either way sooner or later!. It won't make any difference at all, investigative journalists are not the police! They don't get have to prove where they got any evidence of wrong doing from!. Whistle blowers are no legally different than hackers! | |||
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"... Nobody is saying he's committed tax evasion, there just saying it looks like he may have!. His scheme literally fits every definition on the hmrc website of "problem areas". Tax evasion only occurs when there is in fact tax to be paid. . Exactly, hopefully somewhere in the 11 million documents that's been leaked, evidence either way over the 215,000 shell company's created will it be sorted!. What I'm saying is it's highly likely that tax evasion occurred! I think it unlikely. I also think the status of this being a leak or not will greatly affect the outcome for any future legal cases. . That's OK we differ in opinion about why and how the scheme existed and it's legality's. I'm sure it will come to light either way sooner or later!. It won't make any difference at all, investigative journalists are not the police! They don't get have to prove where they got any evidence of wrong doing from!. Whistle blowers are no legally different than hackers!" If the information was "stolen" then that makes a difference | |||
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"... Nobody is saying he's committed tax evasion, there just saying it looks like he may have!. His scheme literally fits every definition on the hmrc website of "problem areas". Tax evasion only occurs when there is in fact tax to be paid. . Exactly, hopefully somewhere in the 11 million documents that's been leaked, evidence either way over the 215,000 shell company's created will it be sorted!. What I'm saying is it's highly likely that tax evasion occurred! I think it unlikely. I also think the status of this being a leak or not will greatly affect the outcome for any future legal cases. . That's OK we differ in opinion about why and how the scheme existed and it's legality's. I'm sure it will come to light either way sooner or later!. It won't make any difference at all, investigative journalists are not the police! They don't get have to prove where they got any evidence of wrong doing from!. Whistle blowers are no legally different than hackers!" There's nothing suspicious about doing your banking in an obscure place that most people couldn't locate on a map. I always bank with Panamanian banks because it's nice to pop in and see your bank manager when you are on holiday. No other reason. | |||
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"... Nobody is saying he's committed tax evasion, there just saying it looks like he may have!. His scheme literally fits every definition on the hmrc website of "problem areas". Tax evasion only occurs when there is in fact tax to be paid. . Exactly, hopefully somewhere in the 11 million documents that's been leaked, evidence either way over the 215,000 shell company's created will it be sorted!. What I'm saying is it's highly likely that tax evasion occurred! I think it unlikely. I also think the status of this being a leak or not will greatly affect the outcome for any future legal cases. . That's OK we differ in opinion about why and how the scheme existed and it's legality's. I'm sure it will come to light either way sooner or later!. It won't make any difference at all, investigative journalists are not the police! They don't get have to prove where they got any evidence of wrong doing from!. Whistle blowers are no legally different than hackers! If the information was "stolen" then that makes a difference" . It's stolen by whistle blowers!. Why do you think Bradley Manning got 20 years and the other guys hiding in Russia!. Most NHS trust whistleblowers have been prosecuted for it!. It has absolutely no effect on the datas legality though unless it was done illegally by police forces who then try to use it in court | |||
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"... Nobody is saying he's committed tax evasion, there just saying it looks like he may have!. His scheme literally fits every definition on the hmrc website of "problem areas". Tax evasion only occurs when there is in fact tax to be paid. . Exactly, hopefully somewhere in the 11 million documents that's been leaked, evidence either way over the 215,000 shell company's created will it be sorted!. What I'm saying is it's highly likely that tax evasion occurred! I think it unlikely. I also think the status of this being a leak or not will greatly affect the outcome for any future legal cases. . That's OK we differ in opinion about why and how the scheme existed and it's legality's. I'm sure it will come to light either way sooner or later!. It won't make any difference at all, investigative journalists are not the police! They don't get have to prove where they got any evidence of wrong doing from!. Whistle blowers are no legally different than hackers! There's nothing suspicious about doing your banking in an obscure place that most people couldn't locate on a map. I always bank with Panamanian banks because it's nice to pop in and see your bank manager when you are on holiday. No other reason. " . According to some on here!. They just like privacy... And you just don't get privacy with Barclays or HSBC on your high St or even in a different city or even say Wales or Scotland. No for real real privacy, you need Panama!. Not that your illegally hiding anything with that ultra privacy you require! No. If it's good enough for Assadd, Saddam, Gaddafi, putin to use it, it's surely private enough for Dave's dad. | |||
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"... Nobody is saying he's committed tax evasion, there just saying it looks like he may have!. His scheme literally fits every definition on the hmrc website of "problem areas". Tax evasion only occurs when there is in fact tax to be paid. . Exactly, hopefully somewhere in the 11 million documents that's been leaked, evidence either way over the 215,000 shell company's created will it be sorted!. What I'm saying is it's highly likely that tax evasion occurred! I think it unlikely. I also think the status of this being a leak or not will greatly affect the outcome for any future legal cases. . That's OK we differ in opinion about why and how the scheme existed and it's legality's. I'm sure it will come to light either way sooner or later!. It won't make any difference at all, investigative journalists are not the police! They don't get have to prove where they got any evidence of wrong doing from!. Whistle blowers are no legally different than hackers! There's nothing suspicious about doing your banking in an obscure place that most people couldn't locate on a map. I always bank with Panamanian banks because it's nice to pop in and see your bank manager when you are on holiday. No other reason. . According to some on here!. They just like privacy... And you just don't get privacy with Barclays or HSBC on your high St or even in a different city or even say Wales or Scotland. No for real real privacy, you need Panama!. Not that your illegally hiding anything with that ultra privacy you require! No. If it's good enough for Assadd, Saddam, Gaddafi, putin to use it, it's surely private enough for Dave's dad. " If you want privacy you go to Switzerland. It's a place you have an outside chance of visiting one day and fairly civilised so you don't worry about the bank being seized in a government coup. The only reason you go to Panama is because they are even more dodgy than the Swiss!! Plus hats and cigars of course. | |||
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"... If the information was "stolen" then that makes a difference. It's stolen by whistle blowers!. Why do you think Bradley Manning got 20 years and the other guys hiding in Russia!. Most NHS trust whistleblowers have been prosecuted for it!. It has absolutely no effect on the datas legality though unless it was done illegally by police forces who then try to use it in court" your argument may carry some weight if they are in fact "whistleblowers". In reality you will see that a criminal investigation will take place around the theft of the data. And we all know how much everybody loves their private details to be stolen by whistleblowers.... | |||
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"... What's been stolen? Potentially, the tax due on assets and revenue. If DC's dad evaded tax and then DC inherited some of the money, DC should have to pay back the tax that his dad evaded. Nothing actually stolen then. No technically it's fraud. Of course that carries a bigger sentence than stealing so he might prefer it! That might be true, but not actually David Cameron's crime? Didn't someone comment about not visiting the sins of the father on the son?
if say i nick some gold bullion and ask you to hold onto it then i pop my clogs and you get caught with it you still have it, ok one could say honest guv i had no idea Surrey didn't own it and maybe get away with holding the stolen property..
if after i pop my clogs you spend some of it then your pretty much bang to rights i would suggest..
So, about this gold you're looking after......
You say stolen, the doors says fraud, no one knows what's happened, there's no hard evidence, no investigation, no charges, no trial, no conviction, no sentence, just lots of wishful thinking from people who don't like him.
'if its proven'
'basically anyone regardless of whether they are politicians or not'
both of those i've stated above..
and yes at the moment its a lot of speculation until more is revealed, hence its a debate..
someone like Cameron is bound to attract a lot of attention given his all in it together, the austerity which has affected some etc..
where this to have taken place under Tony the shifty eyed car salesman Blair' my stance would be the same..
and equally some would prevaricate and be pedantic to the nth degree in defence of the latter also..
twas ever thus..
anyway can i have me gold back please, i'm due to meet a nice man in Nassau who lives in the next village here but we can't sort out my affairs in this country..
"If it's related to Camerons father it could well have been on Blairs watch. As you say, it's all speculation and a lot of wishful thinking. I doubt we'll ever know the full story. Gold, what gold? I ain't seen no gold. | |||
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"... What's been stolen? Potentially, the tax due on assets and revenue. If DC's dad evaded tax and then DC inherited some of the money, DC should have to pay back the tax that his dad evaded. Nothing actually stolen then. No technically it's fraud. Of course that carries a bigger sentence than stealing so he might prefer it! That might be true, but not actually David Cameron's crime? Didn't someone comment about not visiting the sins of the father on the son?
if say i nick some gold bullion and ask you to hold onto it then i pop my clogs and you get caught with it you still have it, ok one could say honest guv i had no idea Surrey didn't own it and maybe get away with holding the stolen property..
if after i pop my clogs you spend some of it then your pretty much bang to rights i would suggest.. "I hope that's not true, my dad stole a bike when he was 7 and I've still got it. I guess technically he wasn't my dad when he was 7 so I hope I'm going to be ok. It's like a family heirloom now, it's the only reminder we've got left of him.  | |||
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"My heart bleeds... A partner at Mossack Fonseca, the Panamanian law firm at the centre of a huge leak of confidential financial data, says it was the victim of a hack. Ramon Fonseca said the leak was not an "inside job" - the company had been hacked by servers based abroad. It had filed a complaint with the Panamanian attorney general's office http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-35975503" It wasn't me, I didn't do it, it was like it when I found it.... | |||
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"i'm fucked if i'm responsible for my dads crimes. "ditto but if your living off the proceeds of his crimes then that's a different outcome.. | |||
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"i'm fucked if i'm responsible for my dads crimes.
ditto but if your living off the proceeds of his crimes then that's a different outcome..
"nope. i am not. the one person who was is dead now, also she didn't know about it. | |||
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