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Tories to re-nationalise steel plant ??
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"We have one plant left. We plan to build new warships but will have to import Chinese steel to do it. Not exactly secure to me"
and letting them put the software into our new nuclear power stations is... |
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I think all critical national infrastructure (transport, energy, communications etc) and critical national industries should be state run. Yes it was a bureaucratic nightmare when they were and horrendously inefficient, but that has to be better than the financial and social cost of having hundreds of thousands of workers on the dole.
Oh, but we'd need to leave the EU in order to do that |
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By *olgateMan
over a year ago
on the road to nowhere in particular |
"We have one plant left. We plan to build new warships but will have to import Chinese steel to do it. Not exactly secure to me
and letting them put the software into our new nuclear power stations is..."
i am against Chinese power stations, German Rail companies French water companies and Spanish owned airports too |
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"It's not allowed under EU regs - national governments can't subsidise and protect their industries"
The EU has failed totally to protect the British steel industry. As you say EU rules prohibit us from taking any action on our own to protect our own interests. So much for the EU being good for UK jobs. |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"It's not allowed under EU regs - national governments can't subsidise and protect their industries"
they actually can if the intent is to sell it on as a going concern.....
the scottish government basically did the same thing last year....save it and sold it on |
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"I think all critical national infrastructure (transport, energy, communications etc) and critical national industries should be state run. Yes it was a bureaucratic nightmare when they were and horrendously inefficient, but that has to be better than the financial and social cost of having hundreds of thousands of workers on the dole.
Oh, but we'd need to leave the EU in order to do that"
Someone should inform Jeremy Corbyn as he wants to nationalise the railways, lol. |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"It's not allowed under EU regs - national governments can't subsidise and protect their industries
The EU has failed totally to protect the British steel industry. As you say EU rules prohibit us from taking any action on our own to protect our own interests. So much for the EU being good for UK jobs. "
another EU shot..... another wrong EU shot, but keep trying champ!!!!! 
what they can't do for example is what the italian govt tried to do with alitalia (the state airline) which was to keep it in state hands permenently to avoid it from going bust.........
what they can do is save it and renationalise temporarily if needed to then sell it on as a going concern... which is exactly what the scottish government did with some steel works last year.....
whether chancellor george is going to want to take on the debt, and the that it is losing money hand over fist long enough to turn it around and sell it is a different matter....
he did with the banks... will he want to with the steel industry.... |
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Centaur I'm pretty sure the Tory MEPS went against the voting of other EU states who wanted to protect, amongst others, British steel against cheap Chinese imports recently.
"It's not allowed under EU regs - national governments can't subsidise and protect their industries
The EU has failed totally to protect the British steel industry. As you say EU rules prohibit us from taking any action on our own to protect our own interests. So much for the EU being good for UK jobs. "
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"It's not allowed under EU regs - national governments can't subsidise and protect their industries
The EU has failed totally to protect the British steel industry. As you say EU rules prohibit us from taking any action on our own to protect our own interests. So much for the EU being good for UK jobs.
another EU shot..... another wrong EU shot, but keep trying champ!!!!!
what they can't do for example is what the italian govt tried to do with alitalia (the state airline) which was to keep it in state hands permenently to avoid it from going bust.........
what they can do is save it and renationalise temporarily if needed to then sell it on as a going concern... which is exactly what the scottish government did with some steel works last year.....
whether chancellor george is going to want to take on the debt, and the that it is losing money hand over fist long enough to turn it around and sell it is a different matter....
he did with the banks... will he want to with the steel industry...."
The USA steel tariffs against Chinese steel dumping are twice as high as the EU's. I thought you would know that being American but never mind. Truth is the EU has not done enough and has failed to protect from Chinese steel dumping in Europe. |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"
The USA steel tariffs against Chinese steel dumping are twice as high as the EU's. I thought you would know that being American but never mind. Truth is the EU has not done enough and has failed to protect from Chinese steel dumping in Europe. "
but that is a WTO (World Trade Organisation) issue.... not an EU issue as such, and the EU are actually putting in a complaint with the WTO with regards to the chinese dumping steel....
The EC (European Commisson) is set to impose provisional duties which actually started this month of up to 16 percent on China, and of up to 26 percent on Russia, following its investigation into alleged dumping by the two countries.
provisional measures are due to be announced by Feb. 14 and definitive duties, if imposed at the conclusion of the investigation, by Aug. 12. Such duties would typically apply for five years. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
The USA steel tariffs against Chinese steel dumping are twice as high as the EU's. I thought you would know that being American but never mind. Truth is the EU has not done enough and has failed to protect from Chinese steel dumping in Europe.
but that is a WTO (World Trade Organisation) issue.... not an EU issue as such, and the EU are actually putting in a complaint with the WTO with regards to the chinese dumping steel....
The EC (European Commisson) is set to impose provisional duties which actually started this month of up to 16 percent on China, and of up to 26 percent on Russia, following its investigation into alleged dumping by the two countries.
provisional measures are due to be announced by Feb. 14 and definitive duties, if imposed at the conclusion of the investigation, by Aug. 12. Such duties would typically apply for five years."
.
Communism beating capitalism... Who'd a thunked it  |
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"
The USA steel tariffs against Chinese steel dumping are twice as high as the EU's. I thought you would know that being American but never mind. Truth is the EU has not done enough and has failed to protect from Chinese steel dumping in Europe.
but that is a WTO (World Trade Organisation) issue.... not an EU issue as such, and the EU are actually putting in a complaint with the WTO with regards to the chinese dumping steel....
The EC (European Commisson) is set to impose provisional duties which actually started this month of up to 16 percent on China, and of up to 26 percent on Russia, following its investigation into alleged dumping by the two countries.
provisional measures are due to be announced by Feb. 14 and definitive duties, if imposed at the conclusion of the investigation, by Aug. 12. Such duties would typically apply for five years."
As with the migrant crisis the EU is typically slow and sluggish to take any action. Too little to late from the EU as usual. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"We have one plant left. We plan to build new warships but will have to import Chinese steel to do it. Not exactly secure to me
and letting them put the software into our new nuclear power stations is...i am against Chinese power stations, German Rail companies French water companies and Spanish owned airports too"
its ok,the French government are going to decide in may if edf can go ahead with hinkley point!wtf!!!!! |
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"It's not allowed under EU regs - national governments can't subsidise and protect their industries"
Not so.
There is an exclusion to this rule for any industry that is deemed to be of necessary for national security.
We are an island and trading nation therefore we need to be able to build ships to protect our trade routes, for that we need shipyards and steel production plants. |
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"The EU has failed totally to protect the British steel industry. As you say EU rules prohibit us from taking any action on our own to protect our own interests. So much for the EU being good for UK jobs. "
No, successive British governments have refused to use the safeguards provide in EU treaties to protect British industries because British politics is corrupt. |
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"Communism beating capitalism... Who'd a thunked it "
Again not so. Just because China (and the rest of the world) calls itself communist does not make it so. China is a single party dictatorship with a mixed free market capitalist and command economy is not communist. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think all critical national infrastructure (transport, energy, communications etc) and critical national industries should be state run. Yes it was a bureaucratic nightmare when they were and horrendously inefficient, but that has to be better than the financial and social cost of having hundreds of thousands of workers on the dole.
Oh, but we'd need to leave the EU in order to do that"
Exactly
Britain is being torn apart and stripped right in front of our own eyes and everyone is so caught up in their own little worlds that they fail to see
We need out of the EU before its too late, it may already be too late!!!!!!!!!  |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"The EU has failed totally to protect the British steel industry. As you say EU rules prohibit us from taking any action on our own to protect our own interests. So much for the EU being good for UK jobs.
No, successive British governments have refused to use the safeguards provide in EU treaties to protect British industries because British politics is corrupt."
but that doesn't help the "we should leave" narrative if you blame the british govt....... |
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"Funny how we get back to the EU again, going to be so pleased when it's over and hopefully we are out."
before we joined the EU we have showed regardless of which party in power a distinct lack of forward planning in our infrastructure and heavy industries, probably since just after the 2nd world war..
blaming the EU when this is an issue about high running costs, a slump in the market, cheap Chinese steel etc is a bit short sighted..
we import 8 times the amount of steel from the EU than we do China and that would still be the case now if we were out of the EU, market forces..
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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About the same job losses as we outsource to India (and Poland) every month from banking
* 99% of people in banking are not bankers - just regular workers doing a job on a normal wage - before the bash a banker starts |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"
The USA steel tariffs against Chinese steel dumping are twice as high as the EU's. I thought you would know that being American but never mind. Truth is the EU has not done enough and has failed to protect from Chinese steel dumping in Europe.
but that is a WTO (World Trade Organisation) issue.... not an EU issue as such, and the EU are actually putting in a complaint with the WTO with regards to the chinese dumping steel....
The EC (European Commisson) is set to impose provisional duties which actually started this month of up to 16 percent on China, and of up to 26 percent on Russia, following its investigation into alleged dumping by the two countries.
provisional measures are due to be announced by Feb. 14 and definitive duties, if imposed at the conclusion of the investigation, by Aug. 12. Such duties would typically apply for five years.
As with the migrant crisis the EU is typically slow and sluggish to take any action. Too little to late from the EU as usual. "
well nice of you to change the subject... and since the UK have an opt out and have had an opt out on any migrant quota scheme.... it actually wouldn't effect any numbers coming here...
so what would like to try and blame the EU for now..... i'd like to blame them for the lack of education of the "outers" and the fear they are trying to put into people...... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Communism beating capitalism... Who'd a thunked it
Again not so. Just because China (and the rest of the world) calls itself communist does not make it so. China is a single party dictatorship with a mixed free market capitalist and command economy is not communist."
.
It was a joke!!  .
However they do own vast swathes of their own industry and seem to succeeded very well at it?.
Is there a lesson there... Who knows! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
The USA steel tariffs against Chinese steel dumping are twice as high as the EU's. I thought you would know that being American but never mind. Truth is the EU has not done enough and has failed to protect from Chinese steel dumping in Europe.
but that is a WTO (World Trade Organisation) issue.... not an EU issue as such, and the EU are actually putting in a complaint with the WTO with regards to the chinese dumping steel....
The EC (European Commisson) is set to impose provisional duties which actually started this month of up to 16 percent on China, and of up to 26 percent on Russia, following its investigation into alleged dumping by the two countries.
provisional measures are due to be announced by Feb. 14 and definitive duties, if imposed at the conclusion of the investigation, by Aug. 12. Such duties would typically apply for five years.
As with the migrant crisis the EU is typically slow and sluggish to take any action. Too little to late from the EU as usual.
well nice of you to change the subject... and since the UK have an opt out and have had an opt out on any migrant quota scheme.... it actually wouldn't effect any numbers coming here...
so what would like to try and blame the EU for now..... i'd like to blame them for the lack of education of the "outers" and the fear they are trying to put into people......"
Well, we could lay some blame at the EU's door for limiting the Chinese steel import duties. But it does start to get complex. The major car manufacturers lobbied the EU to limit duty rises as cheap steel makes for cheaper cars. Any big rise would harm the car industry. |
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i'm not at all sure the present government want to save this industry. they have a history of wanting to "save" people from doing "dirty" jobs.
the privatisation of all the feeder industries for steel production such as coal, , power, docks, rail, shipping etc. has lead to them all being swallowed up by an unpredictable private enterprise market. there is no way of spreading the cost of a hiccup in one of the feeder industries across the others and minimising the impact of a slump to buy time.
this will devastate the region where i live, even the existance of the metalurgy department in swansea university will be under threat.
i suspect the crocodile tears being shed by some folks on the forum today for those tens of thousands who will lose their jobs, will turn to venom in the months to follow when the jobless are accused of sponging off their taxes by having to receive welfare from the state.
the torys are treading on eggshells here and if there is a brexit this will strengthen the call for self determination for wales.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
i suspect the crocodile tears being shed by some folks on the forum today for those tens of thousands who will lose their jobs, will turn to venom in the months to follow when the jobless are accused of sponging off their taxes by having to receive welfare from the state.
"
I suspect that your view of forum users in general is somewhat skewed. Very few people, whatever their views on what can be done to save the steel industry, will shed "crocodile tears." Who would want to see someone unemployed? And who would not want to see a welfare net for an unemployed steelworker? Do you really think that most people think that way? |
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"It's not allowed under EU regs - national governments can't subsidise and protect their industries
The EU has failed totally to protect the British steel industry. As you say EU rules prohibit us from taking any action on our own to protect our own interests. So much for the EU being good for UK jobs.
another EU shot..... another wrong EU shot, but keep trying champ!!!!!
what they can't do for example is what the italian govt tried to do with alitalia (the state airline) which was to keep it in state hands permenently to avoid it from going bust.........
what they can do is save it and renationalise temporarily if needed to then sell it on as a going concern... which is exactly what the scottish government did with some steel works last year.....
whether chancellor george is going to want to take on the debt, and the that it is losing money hand over fist long enough to turn it around and sell it is a different matter....
he did with the banks... will he want to with the steel industry...."
Wasn't it Alastair Darling and Gordon Brown that did it for the banks? |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"It's not allowed under EU regs - national governments can't subsidise and protect their industries
The EU has failed totally to protect the British steel industry. As you say EU rules prohibit us from taking any action on our own to protect our own interests. So much for the EU being good for UK jobs.
another EU shot..... another wrong EU shot, but keep trying champ!!!!!
what they can't do for example is what the italian govt tried to do with alitalia (the state airline) which was to keep it in state hands permenently to avoid it from going bust.........
what they can do is save it and renationalise temporarily if needed to then sell it on as a going concern... which is exactly what the scottish government did with some steel works last year.....
whether chancellor george is going to want to take on the debt, and the that it is losing money hand over fist long enough to turn it around and sell it is a different matter....
he did with the banks... will he want to with the steel industry....
Wasn't it Alastair Darling and Gordon Brown that did it for the banks?"
that they did... and its not a party political point i am making from that respect.... the fact that it looks as if the govt are going to eventually make a profit from the banking bailout, will the govt want to do the same with the steel industry bearing in mind it is losing money hand over fist at the moment.... |
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"
The USA steel tariffs against Chinese steel dumping are twice as high as the EU's. I thought you would know that being American but never mind. Truth is the EU has not done enough and has failed to protect from Chinese steel dumping in Europe.
but that is a WTO (World Trade Organisation) issue.... not an EU issue as such, and the EU are actually putting in a complaint with the WTO with regards to the chinese dumping steel....
The EC (European Commisson) is set to impose provisional duties which actually started this month of up to 16 percent on China, and of up to 26 percent on Russia, following its investigation into alleged dumping by the two countries.
provisional measures are due to be announced by Feb. 14 and definitive duties, if imposed at the conclusion of the investigation, by Aug. 12. Such duties would typically apply for five years.
As with the migrant crisis the EU is typically slow and sluggish to take any action. Too little to late from the EU as usual.
well nice of you to change the subject... and since the UK have an opt out and have had an opt out on any migrant quota scheme.... it actually wouldn't effect any numbers coming here...
so what would like to try and blame the EU for now..... i'd like to blame them for the lack of education of the "outers" and the fear they are trying to put into people......
Well, we could lay some blame at the EU's door for limiting the Chinese steel import duties. But it does start to get complex. The major car manufacturers lobbied the EU to limit duty rises as cheap steel makes for cheaper cars. Any big rise would harm the car industry."
It was discussed on BBC radio 2 Jeremy Vine talk show today. It turns out the EU tariff on Chinese steel is around 16%, while the USA has it set at 200%. What a contrast. It was also mentioned on the programme that it is mainly France who want to keep the EU tariff on Chinese steel low so they can get cheap steel to make french cars. This is why the EU just doesn't work for us, the French don't care about the British steel industry, they are looking after their own interests and they will make sure the EU tariff on Chinese steel stays low. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Do you really think that most people think that way?
where did i mention or even infer "most people"? "
I stand corrected. You said, "the crocodile tears being shed by some." Why did you believe that they were crocodile tears and that people would be complaining that they were in receipt of benefits?
Not being horrid - just wondered why those were your thoughts. |
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"Do you really think that most people think that way?
where did i mention or even infer "most people"?
I stand corrected. You said, "the crocodile tears being shed by some." Why did you believe that they were crocodile tears and that people would be complaining that they were in receipt of benefits?
Not being horrid - just wondered why those were your thoughts."
because some folks post time and time again about bludgers skimming the dole. what i was bringing in to question was after mass job losses like this, where on the timeline does someone go from being a worthy recipient to scrounger?
on a previous thread a couple of months ago about steel job losses, some folks were actually saying that the soon to be redundant workers desrved to be made unemployed on account of going on strike all the time. the steel industry hasn't been on strike for roughly 40 years. go figure out that kind of attitude  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Do you really think that most people think that way?
where did i mention or even infer "most people"?
I stand corrected. You said, "the crocodile tears being shed by some." Why did you believe that they were crocodile tears and that people would be complaining that they were in receipt of benefits?
Not being horrid - just wondered why those were your thoughts.
because some folks post time and time again about bludgers skimming the dole. what i was bringing in to question was after mass job losses like this, where on the timeline does someone go from being a worthy recipient to scrounger?
on a previous thread a couple of months ago about steel job losses, some folks were actually saying that the soon to be redundant workers desrved to be made unemployed on account of going on strike all the time. the steel industry hasn't been on strike for roughly 40 years. go figure out that kind of attitude "
Apologies, then - I had no knowledge of the context of your post. Noone on this thread is posting crocodile tears and noone is making any comment about benefits being deserved or not. It seemed a strange post but if there is context of which I am unaware, that might be the explanation. |
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"Apologies, then - I had no knowledge of the context of your post. Noone on this thread is posting crocodile tears and noone is making any comment about benefits being deserved or not. It seemed a strange post but if there is context of which I am unaware, that might be the explanation."
no worries. just to add another layer of context though, i didn't mention this thread, what i actually wrote was "on the forum today".
on a side note, the region around port talbot has benefited immensely from the welsh assembly spending of EU provided money on infrastructure, job creation and repair to the urban and rural environment on a massive scale, after the devastation left behind from the withdrawl of industry some 35 years ago. until the late 1990's the government point blank refused to spend treasury money on these problems and point blank refused to apply for the regeneration grants available to them for the purpose. without it the place would quite probably look like a squatter camp built in lanzarote national park. |
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I doubt the steel industry was very high in priority when we signed our trade deal with China last year.
We can protect industries deemed essential, but don't count on the Tories nationalising anything. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Good but bad- may help some jobs temporarily, but then the tories will sell it super-cheap to one of their mates in the private sector, who will fire half the workforce anyway and then sell it on at a massive profit down the line.
Tax payers will be shafter a few billion in the process. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I've just been reading that last month our government blocked EU plans to raise tarrifs on Chinese steels imports.
Jesus wept! "
.
Horse, bolt, stable!.
I suspect Jesus may have done more than weep if he'd born 2000 years later |
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"I've just been reading that last month our government blocked EU plans to raise tarrifs on Chinese steels imports.
Jesus wept! .
Horse, bolt, stable!.
I suspect Jesus may have done more than weep if he'd born 2000 years later"
Think of all those loaves and fishes for the homeless, a drop of wine too. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I've just been reading that last month our government blocked EU plans to raise tarrifs on Chinese steels imports.
Jesus wept! "
Haha you think thats bad, Just wait til TTIP comes in!! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I have a few good friends with young families who could be devastated if it doesn't happen so hopefully the government does the right thing for once!!!!! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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And today we see the largest trade account deficit in history and all the bbc can worry about in their writing is the problem of foreign investment pulling out if the brexit camp succeed!.
It's the catch 22 scenario we've created, we don't make anything so we need foreigners money, the more foreigners money we take the less we can't make anything!. |
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"I've just been reading that last month our government blocked EU plans to raise tarrifs on Chinese steels imports.
Jesus wept! "
So did the French. Even if we wanted to raise tariffs on cheap Chinese steel, the French would block us in the EU parliament. The EU is slow and cumbersome making such decisions when you need to get agreement from 28 countries who are only interested in looking after their own interests. |
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"It's not allowed under EU regs - national governments can't subsidise and protect their industries
Exactly;
another reason to exit EU  "
Although doesn't Germany continue to subsidise their coal industry, despite being told it's against EU rules?
One rule for them, another for us, I guess. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I have a few good friends with young families who could be devastated if it doesn't happen so hopefully the government does the right thing for once!!!!!"
Noone wants to see unemployment. Companies do go bust. We can't rescue them all. |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"I've just been reading that last month our government blocked EU plans to raise tarrifs on Chinese steels imports.
Jesus wept!
So did the French. Even if we wanted to raise tariffs on cheap Chinese steel, the French would block us in the EU parliament. The EU is slow and cumbersome making such decisions when you need to get agreement from 28 countries who are only interested in looking after their own interests. "
actually i do find it interesting that in a financial times article. the fingers are now being pointed at the UK for the reason the EU have been slow at reacting to this.... they are saying other EU countries wanted to act on this sooner.... but because the uk wants a better trade situation with china, they are the ones who slowed this down.... |
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"Good or bad thing..a ploy or good politics?"
. It seem pointless to nationalise an industry which is losing in excess of one million pounds every day .
I do not want to see my taxes being wasted on supporting loss making industries . |
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David Cameron, says, leaving the EU, would lead to job losses.
We are in the EU, and the rules prevent him trying to save jobs.
The sooner we get out of the EU, the better.
Yes, we can and will stand alone.
I'm for voting OUT. |
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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"I couldn't find a thread about the new deal for a new British Steel so resurrecting this one.
It has been quite a quick deal.
What was it?"
Greybull Capital are buying Port Talbot Steel Works from Tata. Staff are being asked to take a pay cut and change their pension terms to allow the deal to go through.
Greybull Capital say they will call the new venture British Steel. Government has said it is considering co-investing to make it all happen.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I couldn't find a thread about the new deal for a new British Steel so resurrecting this one.
It has been quite a quick deal.
What was it?
Greybull Capital are buying Port Talbot Steel Works from Tata. Staff are being asked to take a pay cut and change their pension terms to allow the deal to go through.
Greybull Capital say they will call the new venture British Steel. Government has said it is considering co-investing to make it all happen.
"
I see, better then nothing i guess.  |
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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"I couldn't find a thread about the new deal for a new British Steel so resurrecting this one.
It has been quite a quick deal.
What was it?
Greybull Capital are buying Port Talbot Steel Works from Tata. Staff are being asked to take a pay cut and change their pension terms to allow the deal to go through.
Greybull Capital say they will call the new venture British Steel. Government has said it is considering co-investing to make it all happen.
I see, better then nothing i guess. "
It's an investment company that have got it for a peppercorn £1 - or will have when the deal is finalised.
They will then try and sell it on. Liberty House might still be in play. There was an interesting programme on R4 about their chair, Sanjeev Gupta just a few days before the Port Talbot story broke.
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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"How come they got it for £1? They could have got more on eBay. "
Tata have been talking to them for months apparently. This stops Tata having to deal with the £1m a day loss and is a means to keeping the plant open - for now.
More news tomorrow after the Commons debate.
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