FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Brexit pt.2

Brexit pt.2

By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

We have all heard the lies told to us in regards the UK never having to accept quotas of immigrants being forced upon us by the EU. The truth is that if we vote to stay in we will end up having to take a share. And anyway immigrants don't take any notice of EU agreements. An illegal immigrant attempts to enter the UK every 8 seconds. The only way to keep our borders safe is to vote to come out of the EU and take control of them ourselves.

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"We have all heard the lies told to us in regards the UK never having to accept quotas of immigrants being forced upon us by the EU. "

really.... after being told 4 times this is not true... you are still trying to peddle that as fact.......

Denmark, Ireland and the United Kingdom have opt-outs from the area of freedom, security and justice.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Your opening gambit sounds so impartial OP; makes for a great premise for a thread.

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By *now white1000Woman over a year ago

York

There's actually nothing wrong in taking 'our share' of legal immigrants, some of our best surgeons and doctors were legal immigrants once upon a time.

As for keeping our borders safe, they already are pretty much as safe as they can be, don't forget the terror attacks in France were EU nationals, the Belgian attacks were Belgian nationals, our own London attack in 2005 were born right here in the UK.

There are good arguments for and against Brexit, but this is NOT one of them.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Yawn

Why don't you think about something else for a while instead of worrying about nonsense like this?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

OUT / EXIT

1 - vote here

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The original post was a little wider.

There is far more to debate than security.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Lemmie guess? You'd have me and my co-workers at dover / sailing the channel forming a 24 hour guard for any illegals?

Don't get me wrong, I want out of he EU, apart from cheaper mobile phone calls and free health care when in another eu country I don't know what else it does for us as a nation. NATO is what protects us and I believe we'd be better off forming a common market agreement with the commonwealth, but scaremongering about illegals is not the way to win the argument as even if Britain did leave the eu, I doubt we'd ever end up with a policy like that of Australia.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Lemmie guess? You'd have me and my co-workers at dover / sailing the channel forming a 24 hour guard for any illegals?

Well the Army is always ready to take up the slack when you navy guys can't hack it.

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By *isandreTV/TS over a year ago

Durham

"An illegal immigrant attempts to enter the UK every 8 seconds."

He sounds about as persistent as Wile E Coyote.

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

Think an apology is in order, don't you?

if you waiting on one of those from the OP i fear you may be waiting a long time.... as he doesn't tend to acknowledge when he is incorrect.....

isn't that correct op.....

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By *nfamyMan over a year ago

Goole

You can't FAB for a bit of casual Racism.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Think an apology is in order, don't you?

if you waiting on one of those from the OP i fear you may be waiting a long time.... as he doesn't tend to acknowledge when he is incorrect.....

isn't that correct op.....

Looks like his quote - and my post - has been removed. Grrrr!

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

A poll by Midlands newspaper The Express and Star last week showed the following results...

Leave the EU....80%

Remain in the EU....16%

Don't know.....4%

That seems to be a resounding result in favour of Brexit for the Midlands area.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Denmark, Ireland and the United Kingdom have opt-outs from the area of freedom, security and justice."

Incorrect. Cameron tried to negotiate a deal for an opt out, but it was rejected.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Lemmie guess? You'd have me and my co-workers at dover / sailing the channel forming a 24 hour guard for any illegals?

Well the Army is always ready to take up the slack when you navy guys can't hack it."

And we're there for the army when they need military cross wearing medics who earned their medals in afghan patching squaddies up, or marines who do the job of one soldier, 3 CDO X being a corps of specialists. Still doesn't change my original point though.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Cheer up OP, we have a moat

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

Denmark, Ireland and the United Kingdom have opt-outs from the area of freedom, security and justice.

Incorrect. Cameron tried to negotiate a deal for an opt out, but it was rejected. "

It was also interesting to see a well respected international organisation like Amnesty international publicly condemn the EU/Turkey deal last week.

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

Denmark, Ireland and the United Kingdom have opt-outs from the area of freedom, security and justice.

Incorrect. Cameron tried to negotiate a deal for an opt out, but it was rejected. "

ahem..... you are wrong.... The opt-out from the JHA (Justice and Home affairs, which covers immigration) policy area was originally obtained by both states in the Treaty of Amsterdam of 1997, and was retained with the Treaty of Lisbon

basically the uk has had this opt out for the best part of almost 20 years....

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By *ittie4UCouple over a year ago

Watford

"A poll by Midlands newspaper The Express and Star last week showed the following results...

Leave the EU....80%

Remain in the EU....16%

Don't know.....4%

That seems to be a resounding result in favour of Brexit for the Midlands area.

And a poll of my friends and family showed a resounding 100% to Remain in. The two polls are about as statistically representative as each other.

You post only highlights that not everything you read in the papers is the truth.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Denmark, Ireland and the United Kingdom have opt-outs from the area of freedom, security and justice.

Incorrect. Cameron tried to negotiate a deal for an opt out, but it was rejected.

It was also interesting to see a well respected international organisation like Amnesty international publicly condemn the EU/Turkey deal last week. "

I had to have a hearty laugh at the

irony of you quoting Amnesty

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Poland is showing the world by example of how to defend a country, they deal with the problem head on.

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

"Poland is showing the world by example of how to defend a country, they deal with the problem head on."

How so?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Hello Fabio,

but how have the practicalities worked? The level of immigration is far higher than government targets. Now with more Syrian and other immigrants being accepted in Europe, who will then be able to travel throughout Europe at will.

That surely is not in our best interests.

We should only allow in those that are of benefit to ourselves, I would guess that only a very small percentage of immigrants to the U.K. are highly skilled and if they are, are we short of those skills?

It's all about being selective rather than having a virtual open door policy.

Alec

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

"A poll by Midlands newspaper The Express and Star last week showed the following results...

Leave the EU....80%

Remain in the EU....16%

Don't know.....4%

That seems to be a resounding result in favour of Brexit for the Midlands area.

And a poll of my friends and family showed a resounding 100% to Remain in. The two polls are about as statistically representative as each other.

You post only highlights that not everything you read in the papers is the truth."

You have 8000 friends who you've asked then? 8000 people is the number polled by the Express and Star newspaper in the Midlands area.

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

Denmark, Ireland and the United Kingdom have opt-outs from the area of freedom, security and justice.

Incorrect. Cameron tried to negotiate a deal for an opt out, but it was rejected.

It was also interesting to see a well respected international organisation like Amnesty international publicly condemn the EU/Turkey deal last week.

I had to have a hearty laugh at the

irony of you quoting Amnesty

I have to have a hearty laugh at you lefties and socialists continuing to defend and support the EU while its being condemned by Amnesty international.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Poland is showing the world by example of how to defend a country, they deal with the problem head on.

How so?"
.

There building camps!.

It's like the alcoholics child in adulthood!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"8000 people is the number polled by the Express and Star newspaper in the Midlands area. "

I make a point of telling opinion pollsters the exact opposite of what I am going to do, nosey buggers.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"We have all heard the lies told to us in regards the UK never having to accept quotas of immigrants being forced upon us by the EU. The truth is that if we vote to stay in we will end up having to take a share. And anyway immigrants don't take any notice of EU agreements. An illegal immigrant attempts to enter the UK every 8 seconds. The only way to keep our borders safe is to vote to come out of the EU and take control of them ourselves."
well you make a statement, then contradict it in the next sentence why bother? As stated illegal immigrants respect no laws so in or out makes no difference. The worrying thing is lots of people who have not researched enough are going to make emotional decisions and not factual. God help us!This referendum is NOT about immigration!

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By *its_n_piecesCouple over a year ago

"8000 people is the number polled by the Express and Star newspaper in the Midlands area.

I make a point of telling opinion pollsters the exact opposite of what I am going to do, nosey buggers.

ahhhh!! .... so what are you going to do?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Poland is showing the world by example of how to defend a country, they deal with the problem head on.

How so?.

There building camps!.

It's like the alcoholics child in adulthood!"
That too. And how the police is dealing with it, they use force to restore order.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I'd heartily laugh at people who want to see refugees pushed back to Turkey heartily laughing that Amnesty saw the EU plan as flawed.

After all what Amnesty was criticising is the EU plan to do what you wanted to happen to refugees all along i.e. illegally return them to a country that isn't viewed to be a safe haven

According to Amnesty's web site:

"A new plan to tackle unprecedented refugee flows to Europe, mooted by the Dutch Presidency of the European Union today, is fundamentally flawed since it would hinge on illegally returning asylum seekers and refugees from Greece to Turkey, Amnesty International warned.

Plans to label Turkey a “safe third country” in order to ferry back tens of thousands of people from Greece without due process or access to asylum application procedures would blatantly violate both European and international law."

Own goals all round, it seems

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

"We have all heard the lies told to us in regards the UK never having to accept quotas of immigrants being forced upon us by the EU. The truth is that if we vote to stay in we will end up having to take a share. And anyway immigrants don't take any notice of EU agreements. An illegal immigrant attempts to enter the UK every 8 seconds. The only way to keep our borders safe is to vote to come out of the EU and take control of them ourselves.well you make a statement, then contradict it in the next sentence why bother? As stated illegal immigrants respect no laws so in or out makes no difference. The worrying thing is lots of people who have not researched enough are going to make emotional decisions and not factual. God help us!This referendum is NOT about immigration!"

I have researched this subject thoroughly, on sovereignty and democracy, ability to govern ourselves better, economics, for political and social reasons and of course on immigration, on every count I come to the conclusion Britain will be better off out of the failing EU.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Poland is showing the world by example of how to defend a country, they deal with the problem head on.

How so?.

There building camps!.

It's like the alcoholics child in adulthood!That too. And how the police is dealing with it, they use force to restore order."
.

Muslim bashing is the second favourite sport in Poland after fence erecting on vodka!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Denmark, Ireland and the United Kingdom have opt-outs from the area of freedom, security and justice.

Incorrect. Cameron tried to negotiate a deal for an opt out, but it was rejected.

It was also interesting to see a well respected international organisation like Amnesty international publicly condemn the EU/Turkey deal last week.

I had to have a hearty laugh at the

irony of you quoting Amnesty

I have to have a hearty laugh at you lefties and socialists continuing to defend and support the EU while its being condemned by Amnesty international.

I don't support the policy of sending back desperate people to a state like Turkey. I agree with Amnesty entirely that it is regressive and inhumane.

Do you agree? Or is anything critical just a stick to bash the EU with?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 24/03/16 15:48:21]

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Poland is showing the world by example of how to defend a country, they deal with the problem head on.

How so?.

There building camps!.

It's like the alcoholics child in adulthood!That too. And how the police is dealing with it, they use force to restore order..

Muslim bashing is the second favourite sport in Poland after fence erecting on vodka!

"
That is right and I heard going to a football game, is a big no no, them wisla Krakow fans have a fearsome reputation.

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By *ildt123Man over a year ago

Huddersfield

I'm still undecided but the CBI view is interesting. 80% want to stay only 5% want out. Latest fully independent study suggests that we will be £100bn worse off economically if we leave and that we want recover until well into the 2030's and even then we will be behind where we would be if we stayed.

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

Denmark, Ireland and the United Kingdom have opt-outs from the area of freedom, security and justice.

Incorrect. Cameron tried to negotiate a deal for an opt out, but it was rejected.

It was also interesting to see a well respected international organisation like Amnesty international publicly condemn the EU/Turkey deal last week.

I had to have a hearty laugh at the

irony of you quoting Amnesty

I have to have a hearty laugh at you lefties and socialists continuing to defend and support the EU while its being condemned by Amnesty international.

I don't support the policy of sending back desperate people to a state like Turkey. I agree with Amnesty entirely that it is regressive and inhumane.

Do you agree? Or is anything critical just a stick to bash the EU with?"

So you want Britain to stay in a regressive and inhumane European Union?

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By *enard ArgenteMan over a year ago

London and France

Denmark, Ireland and the United Kingdom have opt-outs from the area of freedom, security and justice.

Incorrect. Cameron tried to negotiate a deal for an opt out, but it was rejected.

It was also interesting to see a well respected international organisation like Amnesty international publicly condemn the EU/Turkey deal last week.

I had to have a hearty laugh at the

irony of you quoting Amnesty

I have to have a hearty laugh at you lefties and socialists continuing to defend and support the EU while its being condemned by Amnesty international.

I don't support the policy of sending back desperate people to a state like Turkey. I agree with Amnesty entirely that it is regressive and inhumane.

Do you agree? Or is anything critical just a stick to bash the EU with?"

I agree; some will take any twist and turn to EU bash.

Though interestingly; even though it is rather unpleasant to send the refugees back to Turkey from Greece; in fact Amnesty International has itself chosen to " interpret " the international laws wrongly; it is quite legal to send them from Greece back to Turkey; because it is not their origin; it's against the rules to send them back to the place they were originally from.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Poland is showing the world by example of how to defend a country, they deal with the problem head on.

How so?.

There building camps!.

It's like the alcoholics child in adulthood!That too. And how the police is dealing with it, they use force to restore order."

You condone this . Why???

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Poland is showing the world by example of how to defend a country, they deal with the problem head on.

How so?.

There building camps!.

It's like the alcoholics child in adulthood!That too. And how the police is dealing with it, they use force to restore order.

You condone this . Why???"
I am not saying it is bad. I agree what they do is fine.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Poland is showing the world by example of how to defend a country, they deal with the problem head on.

How so?.

There building camps!.

It's like the alcoholics child in adulthood!That too. And how the police is dealing with it, they use force to restore order..

Muslim bashing is the second favourite sport in Poland after fence erecting on vodka!

How racist is that!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Poland is showing the world by example of how to defend a country, they deal with the problem head on.

How so?.

There building camps!.

It's like the alcoholics child in adulthood!That too. And how the police is dealing with it, they use force to restore order.

You condone this . Why???I am not saying it is bad. I agree what they do is fine."

No I'm saying it's bad..

M8 these are human beings like ourselves. Most are actually genuinely fleeing war. That our nation among other created... We're causing mayhem in there homelands throug illegal war...

They are being treated like shit at every corner. This will only serve too create more hatred amount them... Come on dude have some compassion... They have fuck all but the clothes on their backs and whatever they can carry.... Many children....

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By *ittie4UCouple over a year ago

Watford

"A poll by Midlands newspaper The Express and Star last week showed the following results...

Leave the EU....80%

Remain in the EU....16%

Don't know.....4%

That seems to be a resounding result in favour of Brexit for the Midlands area.

And a poll of my friends and family showed a resounding 100% to Remain in. The two polls are about as statistically representative as each other.

You post only highlights that not everything you read in the papers is the truth.

You have 8000 friends who you've asked then? 8000 people is the number polled by the Express and Star newspaper in the Midlands area. "

Yet again you put front and centre in your comments that you have no idea what you are talking about. It is truly sad that you still manage to be so opinionated though.

You might want to research the famous Literary Times poll of 1936. It will help you understand what happens when you make a poll that is not representative. It's why any newspaper poll isn't worth the paper it is written on. In case you didn't know.

Every day is a school day though. At least you can learn something today, instead of just spouting off rubbish.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Poland is showing the world by example of how to defend a country, they deal with the problem head on.

How so?.

There building camps!.

It's like the alcoholics child in adulthood!That too. And how the police is dealing with it, they use force to restore order..

Muslim bashing is the second favourite sport in Poland after fence erecting on vodka!

How racist is that!"

It can't be, he says he's not racist and not xenophobic.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Denmark, Ireland and the United Kingdom have opt-outs from the area of freedom, security and justice.

Incorrect. Cameron tried to negotiate a deal for an opt out, but it was rejected.

It was also interesting to see a well respected international organisation like Amnesty international publicly condemn the EU/Turkey deal last week.

I had to have a hearty laugh at the

irony of you quoting Amnesty

I have to have a hearty laugh at you lefties and socialists continuing to defend and support the EU while its being condemned by Amnesty international.

I don't support the policy of sending back desperate people to a state like Turkey. I agree with Amnesty entirely that it is regressive and inhumane.

Do you agree? Or is anything critical just a stick to bash the EU with?

So you want Britain to stay in a regressive and inhumane European Union? "

No, I'd like to stay and have influence to change things. I certainly don't want the kind of inhumane (and far poorer ) society that some envisage for this country.

Good game this, isn't it?

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

"I'm still undecided but the CBI view is interesting. 80% want to stay only 5% want out. Latest fully independent study suggests that we will be £100bn worse off economically if we leave and that we want recover until well into the 2030's and even then we will be behind where we would be if we stayed. "

This is the same CBI who sided with the likes of Peter Mandelson and Ken Clarke before and told us all Britain would suffer economically and jobs would be lost if we didn't join the Euro. In fact quite the opposite happened, to use Bojo's turn of phrase they were wrong then and they are wrong now. Some economists are saying Britain will be much better off outside of the EU such as Professor Patrick Minford who is Professor of Applied Economics of Cardiff Business school. He wrote an article about Brexit the other week in which he says in the event we leave the EU the price of goods in Britain will fall by upto 8% which would be good for consumers and as a result of that the economy would be boosted by 4%. Also if you listened to Mark Littlewood who is the Director General of Institute of Economic affairs when he appeared on BBC Question Time on Thursday 17th March he said he would prefer a Britain that can make its own laws and govern itself rather than unelected Eurocrats in Brussels doing it for us so from what he said he seems to be in favour of Brexit too.

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

Denmark, Ireland and the United Kingdom have opt-outs from the area of freedom, security and justice.

Incorrect. Cameron tried to negotiate a deal for an opt out, but it was rejected.

It was also interesting to see a well respected international organisation like Amnesty international publicly condemn the EU/Turkey deal last week.

I had to have a hearty laugh at the

irony of you quoting Amnesty

I have to have a hearty laugh at you lefties and socialists continuing to defend and support the EU while its being condemned by Amnesty international.

I don't support the policy of sending back desperate people to a state like Turkey. I agree with Amnesty entirely that it is regressive and inhumane.

Do you agree? Or is anything critical just a stick to bash the EU with?

So you want Britain to stay in a regressive and inhumane European Union?

No, I'd like to stay and have influence to change things. I certainly don't want the kind of inhumane (and far poorer ) society that some envisage for this country.

Good game this, isn't it?"

You can't change or reform the EU though. David Cameron's pathetic renegotiation deal surely proved that.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I am lucky, if we vote to stay / Remain in Europe, It wont change much for me, I am at an age that I can give up work, retire, live anywhere I wish to lay my hat, leave or stay, wont change much for me

in saying that, opting out of the EU would be my choice

But for the younger ones, kids of today I sure hope they opt to leave and make the UK a far better country than we live in today

1977, 78, 79 80 were fantastic years all the same

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

For every survey suggesting we will suffer financially, there is another one suggesting that we will benefit. Statistics, huh?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Sad fact is, the majority of UK have no guts and are frightened of change

they will vote to stay, remain

they have lost the fighting spirit

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By *ittie4UCouple over a year ago

Watford

"You can't change or reform the EU though. David Cameron's pathetic renegotiation deal surely proved that. "

'You can't change or reform the EU' is a classic - it must be one of your best ever.

Since the EU's creation in 1992 by the Maastricht Treaty it has done nothing but change and reform, growing from 12 to 28 members.

How about 1997 and the Treaty of Amsterdam which developed employment and social protection policies?

Or maybe in 2001 and the Treaty of Nice which reformed the institutions and reinforced fundamental citizen's rights and judicial cooperation in criminal matters?

Or maybe 2002 when the Euro was introduced?

Or maybe 2009 when the Lisbon Treaty strengthened the role of the European Parliament?

Just to mention a few changes and reforms that it's impossible to make in the EU.

And before you jump in, all those treaties were signed by your democratically elected governments.

Yes, I know they didn't ask you personally, but in case you missed it, that's not how democracy works in the UK - and I know how much you love and cherish UK democracy. You keep on telling us. See, UK governments don't generally ask your opinion on any major topic - be it building a nuclear deterrent, joining NATO or going to war in Iraq, Afganistan or Libya.

But anyway 'you can't change or reform the EU'. Priceless.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"You can't change or reform the EU though. David Cameron's pathetic renegotiation deal surely proved that.

'You can't change or reform the EU' is a classic - it must be one of your best ever.

Since the EU's creation in 1992 by the Maastricht Treaty it has done nothing but change and reform, growing from 12 to 28 members.

How about 1997 and the Treaty of Amsterdam which developed employment and social protection policies?

Or maybe in 2001 and the Treaty of Nice which reformed the institutions and reinforced fundamental citizen's rights and judicial cooperation in criminal matters?

Or maybe 2002 when the Euro was introduced?

Or maybe 2009 when the Lisbon Treaty strengthened the role of the European Parliament?

Just to mention a few changes and reforms that it's impossible to make in the EU.

And before you jump in, all those treaties were signed by your democratically elected governments.

But anyway 'you can't change or reform the EU'. Priceless."

What he means is "You can't reform the EU to make it go away, so we can have our country back.....gawd save our gracious queen, they don't like it up 'em etc etc"

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By *ittie4UCouple over a year ago

Watford

"But for the younger ones, kids of today I sure hope they opt to leave and make the UK a far better country than we live in today

1977, 78, 79 80 were fantastic years all the same

The only reason for the younger generation would want to vote to leave is if they have absolutely no belief in themselves.

They have access to an employment market of 500 million jobs in the world's largest economic block. They have the right to live or work anywhere from Stockholm to Athens, from Lisbon to Warsaw, in some of the world's best and most successful economies. They have opportunities you and I couldn't have dreamt of.

But the Brexiters will tell you that staying in the EU gives our kids no future.

Says a lot about Brexiters really.

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

"You can't change or reform the EU though. David Cameron's pathetic renegotiation deal surely proved that.

'You can't change or reform the EU' is a classic - it must be one of your best ever.

Since the EU's creation in 1992 by the Maastricht Treaty it has done nothing but change and reform, growing from 12 to 28 members.

How about 1997 and the Treaty of Amsterdam which developed employment and social protection policies?

Or maybe in 2001 and the Treaty of Nice which reformed the institutions and reinforced fundamental citizen's rights and judicial cooperation in criminal matters?

Or maybe 2002 when the Euro was introduced?

Or maybe 2009 when the Lisbon Treaty strengthened the role of the European Parliament?

Just to mention a few changes and reforms that it's impossible to make in the EU.

And before you jump in, all those treaties were signed by your democratically elected governments.

But anyway 'you can't change or reform the EU'. Priceless."

Did David Cameron get what he asked for then?

I'll answer for you in one word....No.

To quote Jacob Rees Mogg Conservative MP when he commented on it in the house of Commons, "the thin gruel of the deal has been watered down even further. "

Summed it up perfectly, Cameron asked for basic reforms really and they couldn't even give him that in full, he asked for pretty much nothing and he came back with less than nothing. That tells you how open to reform the EU is.

All those treaties you listed well we were promised referendums on a couple of those (which we never got), so yeah so much for democracy where the EU is concerned.

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

"But for the younger ones, kids of today I sure hope they opt to leave and make the UK a far better country than we live in today

1977, 78, 79 80 were fantastic years all the same

The only reason for the younger generation would want to vote to leave is if they have absolutely no belief in themselves.

But the Brexiters will tell you that staying in the EU gives our kids no future.

Says a lot about Brexiters really.

Quite the opposite really. It's the Remainians who have no belief in this country, and who talk down Britain every chance they get. Just had to laugh at the "world's best and most successful economies" comment, LOL the euro zone is a basket case economy with very high unemployment rates. The real opportunities for us now and for future generations of Brits are beyond the borders of the EU in the growth economies of the world, not in an EU which is in decline and has been declining for years now.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"But for the younger ones, kids of today I sure hope they opt to leave and make the UK a far better country than we live in today

1977, 78, 79 80 were fantastic years all the same

The only reason for the younger generation would want to vote to leave is if they have absolutely no belief in themselves.

But the Brexiters will tell you that staying in the EU gives our kids no future.

Says a lot about Brexiters really.

Why would they have no access to jobs in Europe if we left? That is ridiculous. People from this country have always worked in Europe.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I would have a lot more respect for all MP's who promote Brexit if they would offer to resign if it all went wrong. They would then be in the same boat as the rest of us. There's an awful lot of maybes - for those of you who have divorced - is there such a thing as an amicable split? Some countries would be bloody awkward to the UK. Bearing in mind 78% of our GDP is Services - no none member has full access to the EU for services. The truth is we just don't know. It's a gamble and it depends on what your appetite for risk is. The grass is always greener on the other side.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"You can't change or reform the EU though. David Cameron's pathetic renegotiation deal surely proved that.

'You can't change or reform the EU' is a classic - it must be one of your best ever.

Since the EU's creation in 1992 by the Maastricht Treaty it has done nothing but change and reform, growing from 12 to 28 members.

How about 1997 and the Treaty of Amsterdam which developed employment and social protection policies?

Or maybe in 2001 and the Treaty of Nice which reformed the institutions and reinforced fundamental citizen's rights and judicial cooperation in criminal matters?

Or maybe 2002 when the Euro was introduced?

Or maybe 2009 when the Lisbon Treaty strengthened the role of the European Parliament?

Just to mention a few changes and reforms that it's impossible to make in the EU.

And before you jump in, all those treaties were signed by your democratically elected governments.

But anyway 'you can't change or reform the EU'. Priceless.

What he means is "You can't reform the EU to make it go away, so we can have our country back.....gawd save our gracious queen, they don't like it up 'em etc etc"

Why do you continually make jibes or insinuate that anyone who wants to leave the EU is somehow bigoted/racist/old fashioned 'little englander'/shouldn't be patriotic etc? It says a lot about the argument, or lack of, you have for staying in by resorting to things like that. Is it just possible that people might know more/better than you?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"You can't change or reform the EU though. David Cameron's pathetic renegotiation deal surely proved that.

'You can't change or reform the EU' is a classic - it must be one of your best ever.

Since the EU's creation in 1992 by the Maastricht Treaty it has done nothing but change and reform, growing from 12 to 28 members.

How about 1997 and the Treaty of Amsterdam which developed employment and social protection policies?

Or maybe in 2001 and the Treaty of Nice which reformed the institutions and reinforced fundamental citizen's rights and judicial cooperation in criminal matters?

Or maybe 2002 when the Euro was introduced?

Or maybe 2009 when the Lisbon Treaty strengthened the role of the European Parliament?

Just to mention a few changes and reforms that it's impossible to make in the EU.

And before you jump in, all those treaties were signed by your democratically elected governments.

But anyway 'you can't change or reform the EU'. Priceless.

What he means is "You can't reform the EU to make it go away, so we can have our country back.....gawd save our gracious queen, they don't like it up 'em etc etc"

There were factual examples of changes to th EU but you seem to have resorted to personal jibes yourself instead of responding to the factual content.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

We are agents of Project Fear.

All those who vote for Brexit shall be lined up against the wall and shot once we have voted to stay with the glorious union.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 24/03/16 18:26:04]

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"You can't change or reform the EU though. David Cameron's pathetic renegotiation deal surely proved that.

'You can't change or reform the EU' is a classic - it must be one of your best ever.

Since the EU's creation in 1992 by the Maastricht Treaty it has done nothing but change and reform, growing from 12 to 28 members.

How about 1997 and the Treaty of Amsterdam which developed employment and social protection policies?

Or maybe in 2001 and the Treaty of Nice which reformed the institutions and reinforced fundamental citizen's rights and judicial cooperation in criminal matters?

Or maybe 2002 when the Euro was introduced?

Or maybe 2009 when the Lisbon Treaty strengthened the role of the European Parliament?

Just to mention a few changes and reforms that it's impossible to make in the EU.

And before you jump in, all those treaties were signed by your democratically elected governments.

But anyway 'you can't change or reform the EU'. Priceless.

What he means is "You can't reform the EU to make it go away, so we can have our country back.....gawd save our gracious queen, they don't like it up 'em etc etc"

There were factual examples of changes to th EU but you seem to have resorted to personal jibes yourself instead of responding to the factual content."

What???

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By *MaleMan over a year ago

Is there anybody in this thread that doesn't originate from an immigrant of some form at some point ???

I doubt there will be many if any yes's. As for the NO's they would be fooked and not exist as they are now without migration.

Opinion/discussion on valid non racist/non xenophobic border control. However rarely is the anti immigrant stance not due to blatant or disguised/closet racism& xenophobia.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Is there anybody in this thread that doesn't originate from an immigrant of some form at some point ???

I doubt there will be many if any yes's. As for the NO's they would be fooked and not exist as they are now without migration.

Opinion/discussion on valid non racist/non xenophobic border control. However rarely is the anti immigrant stance not due to blatant or disguised/closet racism& xenophobia."

Rubbish

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Poland is showing the world by example of how to defend a country, they deal with the problem head on.

How so?.

There building camps!.

It's like the alcoholics child in adulthood!That too. And how the police is dealing with it, they use force to restore order..

Muslim bashing is the second favourite sport in Poland after fence erecting on vodka!

How racist is that!

It can't be, he says he's not racist and not xenophobic."
.

Anybody with a half a brain can see I was quite clearly being sarcastic!!!.

For Gods sake grow up!

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By *rightonsteveMan over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

Whatever the Prime Minister wants, the online Rebel Alliance will vote the opposite purely on a Contrary Mary basis.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Poland is showing the world by example of how to defend a country, they deal with the problem head on.

How so?.

There building camps!.

It's like the alcoholics child in adulthood!That too. And how the police is dealing with it, they use force to restore order..

Muslim bashing is the second favourite sport in Poland after fence erecting on vodka!

How racist is that!

It can't be, he says he's not racist and not xenophobic..

Anybody with a half a brain can see I was quite clearly being sarcastic!!!.

For Gods sake grow up!

Is that a memo to yourself?

What do you think we were being?

And anyway, don't you know you can't stereotype or be sarcastic about other nationalities these days

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Poland is showing the world by example of how to defend a country, they deal with the problem head on.

How so?.

There building camps!.

It's like the alcoholics child in adulthood!That too. And how the police is dealing with it, they use force to restore order..

Muslim bashing is the second favourite sport in Poland after fence erecting on vodka!

How racist is that!

It can't be, he says he's not racist and not xenophobic..

Anybody with a half a brain can see I was quite clearly being sarcastic!!!.

For Gods sake grow up!

Obviously it wasn't as obvious as you thought.

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By *ittie4UCouple over a year ago

Watford

"Is it just possible that people might know more/better than you?"

There are so many that know more than me - and in so many different fields.

The difference between us though is that I try very hard to base my views and opinion on research and facts. You frequently spout-off 'facts' on subjects you clearly do not understand and have not even bothered to research. So to be honest, it's not that difficult for anyone on here to show they know more/better than you.

Sorry, but you did ask.

The EU referendum is important for this country. I don't mind how anyone votes. I do mind though if they make their decision on the kind of uneducated, unresearched 'Daily Mail' propaganda that you constantly put out.

The good members of FAB deserve better!

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By *ittie4UCouple over a year ago

Watford

"Just had to laugh at the "world's best and most successful economies" comment, LOL the euro zone is a basket case economy with very high unemployment rates."

What dross, again!

OK, so the world's 4th, 5th, 7th, 8th, 14th and 17th biggest economies are 'basket cases'?

So the world's 2nd, 12th, 14th, 17th 18th and 21st biggest GDP per capita economies (oh, and the UK isn't in that list by the way) are 'basket cases'?

No, you want to do deals with the high growth economies. Which are at the moment? Well the top 20 are: Papua New Guinea, Turks and Caicos Islands, Monaco, Ethiopia, Turkmenistan, Myanmar, The Congo, Ivory Coast, Nauru, Bhutan, Maldives, Laos, India, Cambodia, Mozambique, Chad, China and Uzbekistan. And the EU is already negotiating deals with India & China, which are the only two of any size.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Is it just possible that people might know more/better than you?

There are so many that know more than me - and in so many different fields.

Sorry, but you did ask.

The good members of FAB deserve better!"

I think you are mixing me up with someone else because I haven't spouted any facts and figures in these threads so maybe you should do your research and get your facts right. What I have done is a lot of research on the matter and come to the conclusion like a lot of the good people of fab that we will be better off when we are out of the EU. And as an aside I have never read the daily mail in my life and neither I suspect have many millions of other people who have the sense to want to leave the EU. And the question at the top of this thread was not even directed at you so maybe you should read things and study things more carefully in future

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The sooner we are out of Europe the better.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Is it just possible that people might know more/better than you?

There are so many that know more than me - and in so many different fields.

Sorry, but you did ask.

The good members of FAB deserve better!

They'd written a long piece about changes to the eu and you tacked your question onto the end of it. You getting upset about a dads army reference was a bit of an irrelevance to the post, as you'd have seen if you'd studied it more carefully.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Is it just possible that people might know more/better than you?

There are so many that know more than me - and in so many different fields.

Sorry, but you did ask.

The good members of FAB deserve better!

"
.

Are you just uptight about it because your wife's voting brexit!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Is it just possible that people might know more/better than you?

There are so many that know more than me - and in so many different fields.

Sorry, but you did ask.

The good members of FAB deserve better!

As is common in these threads so what do you mean getting upset about the dads army reference was an irrelevance? My question was to the people who wrote that, not to the guy who'd wrote the irrelevant crap above it. And maybe you could show me a post or tell me of a post where I have spouted off facts and figures? Or don't you read too carefully?

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"Sad fact is, the majority of UK have no guts and are frightened of change

they will vote to stay, remain

they have lost the fighting spirit"

And funny enough the Scottish nationalist said exactly the same thing about anyone who was thinking of voting against independence....

They were called scare mongers.....

Remember their economic plans were based on oil being 120 dollars a barrel.... At the moment it is just under 40 dollars

What sort of trouble would they have been if they had decided to go right now...

It isn't a case of people being scared... They are making huge decision... And a decision to say isn't always a weak decision, the grass isn't always greener as people would like you to think.... You won't get all the things the exit side like you to believe, and there will be major consequences and reactions to the decisions

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The sooner we are out of Europe the better."

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Well said out out

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"But for the younger ones, kids of today I sure hope they opt to leave and make the UK a far better country than we live in today

1977, 78, 79 80 were fantastic years all the same

The only reason for the younger generation would want to vote to leave is if they have absolutely no belief in themselves.

But the Brexiters will tell you that staying in the EU gives our kids no future.

Says a lot about Brexiters really.

..Well said.

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By *atcoupleCouple over a year ago

Suffolk - East Anglia

Absolutely correct

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

"Is it just possible that people might know more/better than you?

There are so many that know more than me - and in so many different fields.

Sorry, but you did ask.

The good members of FAB deserve better!

I think the Remainians calling Brexiters Dad's army could work to the Brexit side advantage. Everyone loves Dad's army!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Is it just possible that people might know more/better than you?

There are so many that know more than me - and in so many different fields.

Sorry, but you did ask.

The good members of FAB deserve better!

Are you just uptight about it because your wife's voting brexit!

Are you going to write anything of substance or just stick to being a smart arse?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Is it just possible that people might know more/better than you?

There are so many that know more than me - and in so many different fields.

Sorry, but you did ask.

The good members of FAB deserve better!

I think the Remainians calling Brexiters Dad's army could work to the Brexit side advantage. Everyone loves Dad's army!

Well said Jonesy

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

"Is it just possible that people might know more/better than you?

There are so many that know more than me - and in so many different fields.

Sorry, but you did ask.

The good members of FAB deserve better!

I think the Remainians calling Brexiters Dad's army could work to the Brexit side advantage. Everyone loves Dad's army!

Well said Jonesy"

Yes everyone loves Jonesy too.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Is it just possible that people might know more/better than you?

There are so many that know more than me - and in so many different fields.

Sorry, but you did ask.

The good members of FAB deserve better!

I haven't seen anything factual from you at all. You've stuck very laudably to your strengths of calling the views of other people rubbish or crap or shit without contributing any of your great wisdom to back it up.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The same professor Minford who was an architect of the community charge! Now there was a great success, wasn't it? Have you actually read any of his work? You'll love the bits about the 30 million workers in the uk being a small country in a huge world market. Or that boost in the first year being because all tariffs are dropped to zero. Enjoy that Chinese steel dumping that you hate, won't you? Or how about his ideas on other countries putting up barriers to uk trade - along the lines of oh well we can just go and find business elsewhere (his solution for protectionism in the Indian insurance market).

Yep, professor poll tax - let's follow him into the deep blue yonder.

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

Yep, professor poll tax - let's follow him into the deep blue yonder."

I posted that comment yesterday and it took you a whole 24 hours to dig up that, lol, as Captain Mainwaring would say.... "You stupid boy"

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Is it just possible that people might know more/better than you?

There are so many that know more than me - and in so many different fields.

Sorry, but you did ask.

The good members of FAB deserve better!

Well according to the other guy I'm always spouting off facts. So which is it?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The sooner we are out of Europe the better.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Absolutely correct

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Is it just possible that people might know more/better than you?

There are so many that know more than me - and in so many different fields.

Sorry, but you did ask.

The good members of FAB deserve better!

Well according to the other guy I'm always spouting off facts. So which is it?"

I've answered that already

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Yep, professor poll tax - let's follow him into the deep blue yonder.

I posted that comment yesterday and it took you a whole 24 hours to dig up that, lol, as Captain Mainwaring would say.... "You stupid boy"

It'll take a whole lot more than 24 years to recover from the damage that you and your very own professor poll tax want to inflict on the country, Jonesy. Plenty of Chinese steel will be available for your WW1 bayonet.

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By *MaleMan over a year ago

"Is there anybody in this thread that doesn't originate from an immigrant of some form at some point ???

I doubt there will be many if any yes's. As for the NO's they would be fooked and not exist as they are now without migration.

Opinion/discussion on valid non racist/non xenophobic border control. However rarely is the anti immigrant stance not due to blatant or disguised/closet racism& xenophobia.

Rubbish"

Rubbish lol. Of course it's rubbish eh. Non of us are immigrants or from ultimately. Or was is the rarely is anti immigration stance from blatant or closet racists that hit the nail lol.

Some meathead was blowing off in work how he's a wasp the other day (white Anglo Saxon protistant) but not racist but hates immigrants. He went onto tell us how he was a pure breed English Anglo Saxon not an immigrant

He was devastated to discover the Anglo Saxons originate from Germany. The reply, this one doesn't he's pure Anglo Saxon.

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By *MaleMan over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 25/03/16 13:29:10]

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Ok Pike, the thing is, nobody can provide facts because nobody knows for sure what the consequences of us leaving the EU will be. All people are doing here is lifting figures etc from the internet to try to reinforce their arguments. Give Centaur his due though, at least he will quote his sources and not pretend that these are things that he has known all along as some of the remainers do in an attempt to portray themselves as beings of superior intelligence. I have not only researched the matter but actually experienced it too, having lived here and in Spain for several years and seen the devastation caused there because of the Eurozone.

Having said that, I will provide you with one fact though - Greenland benefited enormously when they left the EEC, not my words by the way. There is no reason to suggest that we won't do the same

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Is there anybody in this thread that doesn't originate from an immigrant of some form at some point ???

I doubt there will be many if any yes's. As for the NO's they would be fooked and not exist as they are now without migration.

Opinion/discussion on valid non racist/non xenophobic border control. However rarely is the anti immigrant stance not due to blatant or disguised/closet racism& xenophobia.

Rubbish

Rubbish lol. Of course it's rubbish eh. Non of us are immigrants or from ultimately. Or was is the rarely is anti immigration stance from blatant or closet racists that hit the nail lol.

He was devastated to discover the Anglo Saxons originate from Germany. The reply, this one doesn't he's pure Anglo Saxon.

That is one guy. You think the majority are against mass immigration due to racism? That is what is rubbish

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

Yep, professor poll tax - let's follow him into the deep blue yonder.

I posted that comment yesterday and it took you a whole 24 hours to dig up that, lol, as Captain Mainwaring would say.... "You stupid boy"

Real damage to this country will be done over the next 24 years if we stay in the EU, with the continued mass immigration from the EU we will be swamped. I've never once mentioned anything about Chinese steel dumping on any of my posts on this forum so no idea why you have got a bee in your bonnet about that? Seeing as you mentioned it though the EU has not protected us from Chinese steel dumping and we cant take action on our own to stop it because EU rules prohibit us from doing so, on that basis I can't see what point you are trying to make about the Chinese steel.

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By *ee VianteWoman over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

Members of my own family, intelligent people, believe this referendum is about immigration and rules about the shape of bananas.

I am rather concerned.

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By *ee VianteWoman over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

"An illegal immigrant attempts to enter the UK every 8 seconds. The only way to keep our borders safe is to vote to come out of the EU and take control of them ourselves."

Will illegal immigrants no longer try to come here if we leave the EU then?

As far as I am aware, we are already free to protect our borders to keep illegal immigrants out. At the moment we have France helping us.

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By *enard ArgenteMan over a year ago

London and France

Real damage to this country will be done over the next 24 years if we stay in the EU, with the continued mass immigration from the EU we will be swamped. "

What " mass immigration"?

In reality it's quite small; and the majority of "EU migrants" contribute more to the economy than they take:

"Mass immigration" is an emotive term used by the xenophobics and borderline racists who populate organisations like migration watch and by rags like the Daily Mail

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

"An illegal immigrant attempts to enter the UK every 8 seconds. The only way to keep our borders safe is to vote to come out of the EU and take control of them ourselves.

Will illegal immigrants no longer try to come here if we leave the EU then?

As far as I am aware, we are already free to protect our borders to keep illegal immigrants out. At the moment we have France helping us."

It's not really illegal immigration I'm concerned about its the mass uncontrolled legal immigration from the EU people should be worried about under the EU free movement of people rules. David Cameron has been a staunch supporter of Turkey joining the EU since around 2005, and with the recent EU/Turkey deal agreement to fast track Turkey EU membership the legal EU immigration situation will become much worse for us once they join. The Tories have twice now promised as manifesto pledges to cut net immigration into this country down to the tens of thousands, Twice they have failed to keep that promise because of the EU free movement of people rules.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Real damage to this country will be done over the next 24 years if we stay in the EU, with the continued mass immigration from the EU we will be swamped.

What " mass immigration"?

In reality it's quite small; and the majority of "EU migrants" contribute more to the economy than they take:

"Mass immigration" is an emotive term used by the xenophobics and borderline racists who populate organisations like migration watch and by rags like the Daily Mail"

What mass immigration???

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By *enard ArgenteMan over a year ago

London and France

Real damage to this country will be done over the next 24 years if we stay in the EU, with the continued mass immigration from the EU we will be swamped.

What " mass immigration"?

In reality it's quite small; and the majority of "EU migrants" contribute more to the economy than they take:

"Mass immigration" is an emotive term used by the xenophobics and borderline racists who populate organisations like migration watch and by rags like the Daily Mail

What mass immigration???

Yes: what " mass immigration?"

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

Real damage to this country will be done over the next 24 years if we stay in the EU, with the continued mass immigration from the EU we will be swamped.

What " mass immigration"?

In reality it's quite small; and the majority of "EU migrants" contribute more to the economy than they take:

"Mass immigration" is an emotive term used by the xenophobics and borderline racists who populate organisations like migration watch and by rags like the Daily Mail"

Legal immigration from the EU is currently running at around 180,000 per annum and over the years that figure has been increasing. When you take in immigration from outside the EU on top of that we now have a net immigration figure of 350,000 per annum total which is unsustainable for this country. We don't have the infrastructure to cope with those figures and it's already starting to show with lack of housing, an Nhs in crisis and parents struggling to find school places for their kids. There is nothing xenophobic or borderline racist about that, it is just basic logic which the Remain in side don't seem able to grasp.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Real damage to this country will be done over the next 24 years if we stay in the EU, with the continued mass immigration from the EU we will be swamped.

What " mass immigration"?

In reality it's quite small; and the majority of "EU migrants" contribute more to the economy than they take:

"Mass immigration" is an emotive term used by the xenophobics and borderline racists who populate organisations like migration watch and by rags like the Daily Mail

What mass immigration???

Yes: what " mass immigration?""

Net migration to the uk for the year to march was 330000

You call that a small number?

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By *an_WoodMan over a year ago

Stafford

Lack of housing is down to decades of neglect not building enough by both major parties. Nhs crisis is down to demographics of the population getting older plus advances in medicine making bills more expensive. Education as a political football there's a novelty. Yet to UKIP it's all about immigration. Same old crap from Farage no wonder Suzanne Evans is pissed off.

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By *enard ArgenteMan over a year ago

London and France

Real damage to this country will be done over the next 24 years if we stay in the EU, with the continued mass immigration from the EU we will be swamped.

What " mass immigration"?

In reality it's quite small; and the majority of "EU migrants" contribute more to the economy than they take:

"Mass immigration" is an emotive term used by the xenophobics and borderline racists who populate organisations like migration watch and by rags like the Daily Mail

That's a half of one percent of the UK population, and of those which nearly 60% already had employment. So they are paying taxes, which pays for their infrastructure...

And the " home grown population" grows by 0.6% anyway.....

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Real damage to this country will be done over the next 24 years if we stay in the EU, with the continued mass immigration from the EU we will be swamped.

What " mass immigration"?

In reality it's quite small; and the majority of "EU migrants" contribute more to the economy than they take:

"Mass immigration" is an emotive term used by the xenophobics and borderline racists who populate organisations like migration watch and by rags like the Daily Mail

That's a half of one percent of the UK population, and of those which nearly 60% already had employment. So they are paying taxes, which pays for their infrastructure...

And the " home grown population" grows by 0.6% anyway.....

Half of one percent of the UK population in one year! What percentage over the last 10 and the next 10?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Infrastructure grows out of thin air and can spring up overnight

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By *ittie4UCouple over a year ago

Watford

Oh, I did, you are correct. I apologise!

Just for the record I didn't say you did read the Mail, BTW. And as for the question in the OP, well let's go back and follow the thread. Who takes these topics 'off topic'. Personal view is that it's a couple of Brexiters who take the opportunity to post Daily Mail lies and propaganda that get's challenged -as it should be. Brainless comments like 'it's impossible to change/reform the EU' or 'EU economies are basket cases'....

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By *ittie4UCouple over a year ago

Watford

" Half of one percent of the UK population in one year! What percentage over the last 10 and the next 10?"

Did you see The Guardian's survey earlier this week?

Question: Approximately what percentage of the UK population do you believe were born in other EU countries?

Survey answers:

Less than 10% 16%;

11-20% 23%;

21-30%. 19%;

31-40% 19%;

41-50% 11%;

51-60% 6%;

61-70%. 2%;

71-80%. 2%;

81-90% 1%;

91-100% 0%

Average estimate 28%

The average for UKIP and Brexit supporters was 34%

Over one in ten surveyed thought that more than 50% of the UK Population was born in other EU countries.

The actual answer (Office for National Statistics figures for year ending December 2014) show that 8.3 million UK residents, 13% of the total population, were born abroad. However, only 3 million of those were born in an EU country so the actual figure is less than 5%.

Note that EU migration is much less than half of total migration.

Question: Approximately how many UK nationals do you think live in other EU countries? For reference, the total population of the UK is 64.1 million while the total population of all EU countries (including UK) is 503 million.

Survey answers:

Fewer than 100,000 6%;

100,001-250,000 9%;

250,001-500,000 14%;

500,001-1 million 19%;

1-1.5 million 17%;

1.5-2 million 9%;

2-2.5 million 9%;

2.5-3 million 5%;

3-3.5 million 3%;

3.5-4 million 2%;

4-4.5 million 1%;

4.5-5 million 2%;

More than 5 million 4%

Average estimate 1.48 million

Actual answer: (According to figures used in a government response to a parliamentary question by Matthew Oakeshott in 2014) the real figure is 2.2 million. There are just over 1 million Britons living in Spain, 330,000 in France, 329,000 in Ireland, 107,000 in Germany, 65,000 in Cyprus, 48,000 in the Netherlands, 45,000 in Greece, 39,000 in Portugal and 37,000 in Italy.

In other words, net migration to the UK from the EU since Mastrict Treaty in 1992 is about 800,000 in 24 years.

I won't bother to answer your question about the next ten years. I'm sure my crystal ball will say something very different from your crystal ball.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Ok Pike, the thing is, nobody can provide facts because nobody knows for sure what the consequences of us leaving the EU will be. All people are doing here is lifting figures etc from the internet to try to reinforce their arguments. Give Centaur his due though, at least he will quote his sources and not pretend that these are things that he has known all along as some of the remainers do in an attempt to portray themselves as beings of superior intelligence. I have not only researched the matter but actually experienced it too, having lived here and in Spain for several years and seen the devastation caused there because of the Eurozone.

Having said that, I will provide you with one fact though - Greenland benefited enormously when they left the EEC, not my words by the way. There is no reason to suggest that we won't do the same"

Ah Godfrey you clearly haven't bothered to pay attention to the dozens of sources that people including me have given you whilst you still fail to add anything of value except your adoration of centaur ukip. As for Greenland the Danes will tell you how it benefits from their ongoing membership of the eu.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Real damage to this country will be done over the next 24 years if we stay in the EU, with the continued mass immigration from the EU we will be swamped.

What " mass immigration"?

In reality it's quite small; and the majority of "EU migrants" contribute more to the economy than they take:

"Mass immigration" is an emotive term used by the xenophobics and borderline racists who populate organisations like migration watch and by rags like the Daily Mail

What mass immigration???

The mass immigration taking place right now. I've never understood why people want their country swamped with foreigners. The British way of life is disappearing.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Real damage to this country will be done over the next 24 years if we stay in the EU, with the continued mass immigration from the EU we will be swamped.

What " mass immigration"?

In reality it's quite small; and the majority of "EU migrants" contribute more to the economy than they take:

"Mass immigration" is an emotive term used by the xenophobics and borderline racists who populate organisations like migration watch and by rags like the Daily Mail

What mass immigration???

Yes: what " mass immigration?"

Net migration to the uk for the year to march was 330000

You call that a small number?"

Compared to the 30 million tourists each year it is a small number. It's small compared to the 4 million french tourists and one million Belgians each year too. Somehow infrastructure like electricity water sewage hospitals roads railways seems to survive that mass influx each year.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Yep, professor poll tax - let's follow him into the deep blue yonder.

I posted that comment yesterday and it took you a whole 24 hours to dig up that, lol, as Captain Mainwaring would say.... "You stupid boy"

You were the one boasting about professor poll tax aka Minford being pro brexit. You didn't even bother to look at what he stands for did you? Total tariff abolition and free trade, survival of the fittest. He'd have you gobbled up in a minute Jonesy. They don't like it up em.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Real damage to this country will be done over the next 24 years if we stay in the EU, with the continued mass immigration from the EU we will be swamped.

What " mass immigration"?

In reality it's quite small; and the majority of "EU migrants" contribute more to the economy than they take:

"Mass immigration" is an emotive term used by the xenophobics and borderline racists who populate organisations like migration watch and by rags like the Daily Mail

People gave been moaning about a lack of housing and the disastrous state of the NHS since we'll before you were born. Poor planning and investment has nothing to do with immigrants and a hell of a lot to do with govermment policy failures of all parties.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Real damage to this country will be done over the next 24 years if we stay in the EU, with the continued mass immigration from the EU we will be swamped.

What " mass immigration"?

In reality it's quite small; and the majority of "EU migrants" contribute more to the economy than they take:

"Mass immigration" is an emotive term used by the xenophobics and borderline racists who populate organisations like migration watch and by rags like the Daily Mail

What mass immigration???

Yes: what " mass immigration?"

Net migration to the uk for the year to march was 330000

You call that a small number?

Just taken a look at your profile man4you and it says that you are 62 so its fair to say that youve had your fair share of life, coming to the end of your working life, are no longer in education and probably have your own place to live. So therefore don't you think you are being selfish by promoting mass immigration that will lead to the younger generation having difficulty finding jobs, getting school places for their children and getting a home of their own. Youve had a full measure of your life and selfishly you are now promoting immigration that hinders our children.

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By *ittie4UCouple over a year ago

Watford

Real damage to this country will be done over the next 24 years if we stay in the EU, with the continued mass immigration from the EU we will be swamped.

What " mass immigration"?

In reality it's quite small; and the majority of "EU migrants" contribute more to the economy than they take:

"Legal immigration from the EU is currently running at around 180,000 per annum and over the years that figure has been increasing. Wfhen you take in immigration from outside the EU on top of that we now have a net immigration figure of 350,000 per annum total which is unsustainable for this country. We don't have the infrastructure to cope with those figures and it's already starting to show with lack of housing, an Nhs in crisis and parents struggling to find school places for their kids. There is nothing xenophobic or borderline racist about that, it is just basic logic which the Remain in side don't seem able to grasp. "

What you don't seem able to grasp is that EU immigration is much less than half of total UK migration figures. Take out the over 2million British citizens living abroad and net migration is around only 1million (compared to over 5million non-EU immigrants living in the UK)

If you have an immigration issue, leaving the EU doesn't fix it!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Real damage to this country will be done over the next 24 years if we stay in the EU, with the continued mass immigration from the EU we will be swamped.

What " mass immigration"?

In reality it's quite small; and the majority of "EU migrants" contribute more to the economy than they take:

If you have an immigration issue, leaving the EU doesn't fix it!"

Rubbish!

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By *ittie4UCouple over a year ago

Watford

"Just taken a look at your profile man4you and it says that you are 62 so its fair to say that youve had your fair share of life, coming to the end of your working life, are no longer in education and probably have your own place to live. So therefore don't you think you are being selfish by promoting mass immigration that will lead to the younger generation having difficulty finding jobs, getting school places for their children and getting a home of their own. Youve had a full measure of your life and selfishly you are now promoting immigration that hinders our children."

I don't reply for man4you, he is able to do that himself.

I woul make two points:

First, as I posted above EU immigration is much less than half of total UK migration figures. Take out the over 2million British citizens living abroad and net migration is around only 1million (compared to over 5million non-EU immigrants living in the UK)

If you have an immigration issue, leaving the EU doesn't fix it!

Secondly I find it stunningly depressing that people have so little faith in their children that they think staying in the EU would make it difficult for their kids to find a job. It will only make it difficult for them if they leave school with no qualifications and unable to speak a European language. For any child that takes their education seriously, the EU gives then the right to live or work in 28 nations with over 500 million jobs across the continent, in some of the world's most successful economies. Unless of course you have no faith in your kids.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Real damage to this country will be done over the next 24 years if we stay in the EU, with the continued mass immigration from the EU we will be swamped.

What " mass immigration"?

In reality it's quite small; and the majority of "EU migrants" contribute more to the economy than they take:

"Mass immigration" is an emotive term used by the xenophobics and borderline racists who populate organisations like migration watch and by rags like the Daily Mail

What mass immigration???

Yes: what " mass immigration?"

Net migration to the uk for the year to march was 330000

You call that a small number?

Oh dear, you're really not helping your argument. How many tourists use our schools and hospitals etc? And what kind of length of time are they here for? A week or 2? A weekend? A day? Our infrastructure is set up to cope with tourists not permanent residents. How many extra classrooms and hospital beds etc would we need to provide for an extra million residents every 3 years? Thats without the housing. And when all these people reach retirement age how will we keep them/us? Import more and more people to tax and pay their pensions? Where does it end?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It's becoming increasingly likely that we are sleepwalking into a disastrous decision for this country based almost entirely on immigration concerns/xenophobia.

Perhaps the biggest worry will be when those people who voted Brexit based on this utterly false premise realise that immigration will continue at similar levels (with possibly more "brown people" instead of Europeans) because the capitalist economy we have requires cheap labour (although the inevitable shrinking of the economy might have some impact).

It's no so much the exit that bothers me (saddening though that will be) but the forces of Nationalism that will be inevitably unleashed.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

What " mass immigration"?

In reality it's quite small; and the majority of "EU migrants" contribute more to the economy than they take:

You obviously don't travel in and around London very much to see the effects of mass immigration and how crowded it really is. In some areas the health service has gone beyond the break point. It can take months just to get a GP appointment - and two years wait for a routine operation. Public transport is crammed to bursting point even with trains and tubes running at 2 minute intervals all day and 6000 plus buses on the capital's roads. Buying property is beyond the reach of ordinary people and the response to the vast increase in demand is to conrete over even more of the dwindling countryside. Schools are full to bursting with very few getting their first choice in schools and some lucky to get ANY school

- and you say What Mass Immigration ?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

What " mass immigration"?

In reality it's quite small; and the majority of "EU migrants" contribute more to the economy than they take:

- and you say What Mass Immigration ?

Funny, because published data shows that schools in London are out performing every other area and London NHS Trusts are amongst the best performing in the country.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The Australian PM has just said that the recent terror attacks were a result of porous European borders. Just thought I'd throw that out there as a link between mass, uncontrolled immigration and terrorism. I'm voting out because it's the only way to control our borders and who we let in.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

What " mass immigration"?

In reality it's quite small; and the majority of "EU migrants" contribute more to the economy than they take:

- and you say What Mass Immigration ?

Funny, because published data shows that schools in London are out performing every other area and London NHS Trusts are amongst the best performing in the country."
citation needed lol

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

No it isn't. Google it - there's plenty of evidence from official and media sources.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

So ima file that under bs you just made up then lmao fam ??

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So ima file that under bs you just made up then lmao fam ??"

No, Google it. The evidence is there, in both official sources and every respectable media outlet - just perhaps it's not on Fascist sites like Breitbart, doesn't mean it isn't true.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Funny, because published data shows that schools in London are out performing every other area and London NHS Trusts are amongst the best performing in the country."

you mean... the "government statisitics" - you phone up your local GP surgery and they tell you the next available appointment is seven weeks. This 'statisitic' is not recorded anywhere. All they record is that your appointment has been made - it will only become a statistic if it is cancelled by them.

You'll be telling me you believe everything they print in the sun and mail next.

I prefer to go by what I experience and see on a daily basis - I used to get a GP appointment at least same week, not anymore, I used to get a seat on the train to work, not anymore - I used to view a few rolling fields from the train window as opposed to building sites - not anymore.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

* just because

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Seeing as you can't provide evidence on that I'm just gonna take it as something you came up with ???? nice one fam

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Funny, because published data shows that schools in London are out performing every other area and London NHS Trusts are amongst the best performing in the country.

You'll be telling me you believe everything they print in the sun and mail next.

The NHS is indisputablely under pressure.

It's your own deduction process that tells you that immigration (from mostly young, healthy, tax paying people) is primarily to blame for this rather than other demographic factors and Government policy.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Tax paying? You make me laugh fam ???? We're the ones paying for it haha. Think all the new migrants are paying taxes, you're crazy fam lol

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Seeing as you can't provide evidence on that I'm just gonna take it as something you came up with ???? nice one fam

If you are unable to research for yourself, that's not my problem. I don't need to provide evidence, it's in the public domain.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS over a year ago

Central

Assuming that NHS issues are to do primarily with Europe seems to overlook the obvious. Ie government funding and management. It has been starved of investment at a time of rising costs. GP funding has also seen changes and pressured the front line further.

The ideology is reduction of state services and every man for himself.

To then pressure funding even further by plunging our economy into uncertainty in the hold of people with this mindset is to ask for catastrophe, if it's important to you.

But with a right wing media most of your opinions are managed by them.

Some free thinking is needed.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Seeing as you can't provide evidence on that I'm just gonna take it as something you came up with ???? nice one fam

If you are unable to research for yourself, that's not my problem. I don't need to provide evidence, it's in the public domain.

"
"I don't need to provide evidence" glad our courts don't think like that haha. You make me laugh my guy

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Assuming that NHS issues are to do primarily with Europe seems to overlook the obvious. Ie government funding and management. It has been starved of investment at a time of rising costs. GP funding has also seen changes and pressured the front line further.

The ideology is reduction of state services and every man for himself.

To then pressure funding even further by plunging our economy into uncertainty in the hold of people with this mindset is to ask for catastrophe, if it's important to you.

But with a right wing media most of your opinions are managed by them.

Some free thinking is needed."
implying the economy won't go to shit if we stay in either. Who knows, everyone says differently

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"No it isn't. Google it - there's plenty of evidence from official and media sources."

I'm assuming that both you and your parents are white British. So I'm just wondering why you are so keen for foreign people to come and live here. Do you have absolutely no concerns regarding people coming here or is all immigration good immigration? Do you not care about British culture and way of life?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"No it isn't. Google it - there's plenty of evidence from official and media sources.

"The British Way of Life?' I honestly don't have a clue what that is. It's an abstract concept which has very little meaning. My "Way of Life" may well be very different to yours, and yet we are both British. There are British laws, which I'd expect everyone to adhere to whatever their background.

What do you mean by "good immigration"?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It's becoming increasingly likely that we are sleepwalking into a disastrous decision for this country based almost entirely on immigration concerns/xenophobia.

It's no so much the exit that bothers me (saddening though that will be) but the forces of Nationalism that will be inevitably unleashed."

Why do you keep relating immigration concerns to xenophobia?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I don't reply for man4you, he is able to do that himself.

I woul make two points:

If you have an immigration issue, leaving the EU doesn't fix it!

Thank you for your apology earlier, but I find it depressing and rather absurd that you think our children wouldn't be able to live and work in the nations across the continent if we left the EU. Could you explain your reasons for thinking that?

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By *rightonsteveMan over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

We only entered the Common Market in 1974. We coped without 'being in Europe' before and I think we can again. I haven't decided yet with way to vote but I don't like the politics of fear which is being touted as fact. It's all an unknown but the only thing to fear is fear itself.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It's becoming increasingly likely that we are sleepwalking into a disastrous decision for this country based almost entirely on immigration concerns/xenophobia.

It's no so much the exit that bothers me (saddening though that will be) but the forces of Nationalism that will be inevitably unleashed.

Why do you keep relating immigration concerns to xenophobia? "

I'm not sure whether you are being deliberately obtuse? A brief glimpse at any mention of the subject across social media, newspaper comment sections or indeed threads on these forums would tell any objective person all they need to know.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It's becoming increasingly likely that we are sleepwalking into a disastrous decision for this country based almost entirely on immigration concerns/xenophobia.

It's no so much the exit that bothers me (saddening though that will be) but the forces of Nationalism that will be inevitably unleashed.

Why do you keep relating immigration concerns to xenophobia? "

On 2nd thoughts don't answer that and carry on doing it. Look what it did for Gordon Brown

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It's becoming increasingly likely that we are sleepwalking into a disastrous decision for this country based almost entirely on immigration concerns/xenophobia.

It's no so much the exit that bothers me (saddening though that will be) but the forces of Nationalism that will be inevitably unleashed.

Why do you keep relating immigration concerns to xenophobia?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Real damage to this country will be done over the next 24 years if we stay in the EU, with the continued mass immigration from the EU we will be swamped.

What " mass immigration"?

In reality it's quite small; and the majority of "EU migrants" contribute more to the economy than they take:

"Mass immigration" is an emotive term used by the xenophobics and borderline racists who populate organisations like migration watch and by rags like the Daily Mail

What mass immigration???

Yes: what " mass immigration?"

Net migration to the uk for the year to march was 330000

You call that a small number?

Much as it might disappoint one or two people here, I plan on being around for quite a while so I'll quite greedily take that full measure and a bit more, thanks. I work in a diverse environment with people from countries across the world. Those people contribute to the success of the company and are part of the economic well being of the UK. I can't be bothered to waste my time treating foreigners as a threat and I'm certainly not scared of losing my job to one. I'd see it as an opportunity to find something better if it did happen.

As I said before, there have been shortages of school places for at least 40 years that I can remember, well before people could blame it on EU immigrants though there were other migrant groups to be picked on at the time - try 1968 and Powell's famous rivers of blood speech for an example.

Successive governments have failed to upgrade or replace the UK housing stock. It's nothing at all to do with immigrants and a lot to do with lack of a coherent housing strategy.

You can be sure of two things: if you got rid of every single foreign worker from this country, and all their children, there'd be people here in 10 and 20 years time moaning about housing, schools, hospitals, power stations and looking for some new scapegoat to blame it all on.

The second is that the population of this country is getting older and the younger people in it aren't having families at a rate that will provide workers to pay taxes and keep those older people in pensions and healthcare. Oddly enough if Brexit succeeds it'll be to a large part because of those older voters, who in the next few years will be wondering where their carers are going to come from, why there aren't enough staff in hospitals etc etc

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By *ittie4UCouple over a year ago

Watford

"Thank you for your apology earlier, but I find it depressing and rather absurd that you think our children wouldn't be able to live and work in the nations across the continent if we left the EU. Could you explain your reasons for thinking that?"

OMG. You are just being silly now! Right?

You don't understand the difference between a current 'right' and a future 'well who knows what might happen'

Just out of interest, have you tried to enter the US saying you have a fancy to live there and you are going to get a job in the US? Or Canada? Or China? Or anywhere else outside the single market.

But actually you missed my point. My point was that our kids have access to the biggest employment market in the world outside China and India and someone says 'if we stay in our kids won't be able to get a job'.

And the really depressing and absurd thing is that it's the same people who say Remain In don't believe in Britain and the British who say that the best way for our kids to get jobs is to come out of the EU because they can't compete with other EU nationals.

Depressing and very absurd.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Real damage to this country will be done over the next 24 years if we stay in the EU, with the continued mass immigration from the EU we will be swamped.

What " mass immigration"?

In reality it's quite small; and the majority of "EU migrants" contribute more to the economy than they take:

"Mass immigration" is an emotive term used by the xenophobics and borderline racists who populate organisations like migration watch and by rags like the Daily Mail

What mass immigration???

Yes: what " mass immigration?"

Net migration to the uk for the year to march was 330000

You call that a small number?

If you want some numbers for visitors to the UK and how long they stay you can look it up on the visit britain web site.

Schools? - I never mentioned them, so perhaps you can explian what you're going on about?

As far as hospitals are concerned, according to plenty of Brexit people our health service is crumbling because of health tourism, so perhaps they can answer that part of your question for you?

You say our infrastructure is set up to handle tourists, not permanent residents? I think you'll find infrastructure planners looking a bit puzzled at that idea. Anyway, is there something about a tourist that uses different roads or electricity or water supplies or sewerage or trains or buses to all normal residents?

Other than they tend to come during the holiday season(s) which means seasonal loads on infrastructure, which it isn't very good at coping with.

I think someone else has already pointed out to you that the percentage change/growth each year is about 0.5% per year, so you can calculate your own answers to the how many questions. There's also the plus that that building contributes to GDP and national wealth.

The pension age thing is an interesting point. When you exclude immigration, the population of this country falls. Fewer younger people paying for more older people is the underlying trend. That definitely isn't sustainable and it's there whatever you say about immigration

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Real damage to this country will be done over the next 24 years if we stay in the EU, with the continued mass immigration from the EU we will be swamped.

What " mass immigration"?

In reality it's quite small; and the majority of "EU migrants" contribute more to the economy than they take:

"Mass immigration" is an emotive term used by the xenophobics and borderline racists who populate organisations like migration watch and by rags like the Daily Mail

What mass immigration???

Yes: what " mass immigration?"

Net migration to the uk for the year to march was 330000

You call that a small number?

Successive governments have failed to upgrade or replace the UK housing stock. It's nothing at all to do with immigrants and a lot to do with lack of a coherent housing strategy.

As I said earlier, who will pay the taxes to pay for the immigrants when they need a pension? More and more immigrants? And when they then need a pension? More immigrants? Where does it end?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"We only entered the Common Market in 1974. We coped without 'being in Europe' before and I think we can again. I haven't decided yet with way to vote but I don't like the politics of fear which is being touted as fact. It's all an unknown but the only thing to fear is fear itself. "
did you know that the UK had to have a financial bail out from the imf in the 1970s I hardly call that coping then inside the eu it's now the world's 5th largest economy and yet people say say the UK get nothing from Europe I find that absurd ...all the out campaigns are quick to say we give so much to the eu but non of them say that we make the money back plus more from trading in the single market the truth and reality is not fear mongering

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By *ittie4UCouple over a year ago

Watford

"Tax paying? You make me laugh fam ???? We're the ones paying for it haha. Think all the new migrants are paying taxes, you're crazy fam lol"

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Real damage to this country will be done over the next 24 years if we stay in the EU, with the continued mass immigration from the EU we will be swamped.

What " mass immigration"?

In reality it's quite small; and the majority of "EU migrants" contribute more to the economy than they take:

"Mass immigration" is an emotive term used by the xenophobics and borderline racists who populate organisations like migration watch and by rags like the Daily Mail

What mass immigration???

Yes: what " mass immigration?"

Net migration to the uk for the year to march was 330000

You call that a small number?

Successive governments have failed to upgrade or replace the UK housing stock. It's nothing at all to do with immigrants and a lot to do with lack of a coherent housing strategy.

As I said earlier, who will pay the taxes to pay for the immigrants when they need a pension? More and more immigrants? And when they then need a pension? More immigrants? Where does it end?"

It ends when we have a pension system that funds itself properly. There's no use blaming immigrants for that. Public pension liabilities have largely been built up historically to be paid out of current taxes. There's no 'fund' supporting the UK old age pension system. Police, fire brigade, civil service, NHS pensions for many years have been unfunded so they get paid out of current taxation.. That's why more and more workers are needed to pay for the aging population. That's why the government has pushed back pension dates for all and more so for women.

Migrants in work pay taxes and NI - that means that they are contributing to today's pensioners. If they contribute for a s long as you or I why shouldn't they get a pension?

But you really have to believe in Ponzi schemes to support the current unfunded system.

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By *ittie4UCouple over a year ago

Watford

"As I said earlier, who will pay the taxes to pay for the immigrants when they need a pension? More and more immigrants? And when they then need a pension? More immigrants? Where does it end?"

Brilliant question. And one you should keep on asking UK governments until you stop taking a pension.

It's a microcosm of the political process in the UK - a fundamental question that should be up front at every election - but no political party will raise the issue for fear of the media and political backlash.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Love to think that was true...but there have been NO INDEPENDENT STUDIES as all TGE studies have been instigated by one side or the other. There are other "studies" showing just the opposite.

There cannot be a study as you can only study something that has or is happening. You can only dummies and try to predict something that has not yet happened. And there has never yet been an accurate economic forecast from any organisation! They all get it wrong!

This leaves us all still guessing at what may or may not happen on this one measure.

On just about every other measure....I'm out!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Summise not dummies ...sorry!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

But with a right wing media most of your opinions are managed by them.

Some free thinking is needed."

Most of the right wing media WANT immigration. Immigration provides a cheap labour pool. It enhances the profits for business. Many of the immigrants also bring with them their own right wing politics and beliefs, set up their own communities and exclude others - all the very things people deem unacceptable if practiced by the indigenous inhabitants.

The glaringly obvious fact is that over populating ANY country will make it a less pleasant and ultimately a more dangerous place to live.

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By *orestersCouple over a year ago

The Forest

I love these forums sometimes, they can be so helpful. I don't really give a shit about in or out of Europe, we're emigrating to Canada as soon as my pension is sorted (and we'll be eligible to draw on NHS funded treatment there!) but there are two "stay in" posters on this thread whose sheer pomposity has decided the Mem and I to vote out. Our "out" vote will give us the great pleasure of knowing that these two pompous gits' votes will count for absolutely nothing

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I love these forums sometimes, they can be so helpful. I don't really give a shit about in or out of Europe, we're emigrating to Canada as soon as my pension is sorted (and we'll be eligible to draw on NHS funded treatment there!) but there are two "stay in" posters on this thread whose sheer pomposity has decided the Mem and I to vote out. Our "out" vote will give us the great pleasure of knowing that these two pompous gits' votes will count for absolutely nothing

Enjoy your retirement, I'm sure you'll be much missed

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By *ittie4UCouple over a year ago

Watford

BTW, I agree that we can cope outside the EU. That isn't the issue though; it's will we do better in or out. You will make up your own mind.

But this isn't 1974. The world has changed since my Dad drove a Ford Cortina made in Dagenham, China was a closed country and mobile telecoms were still the preserve of Captain Kirk in Star Trek.

What was right (or wrong) before 1974 has no relevance on what is best for England (and note I don't say the UK, because Scotland will likely vote to stay in the EU) for the twenty-first century of globalisation with developing huge economic blocks.

As I said, you will make up your own mind.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Tax paying? You make me laugh fam ???? We're the ones paying for it haha. Think all the new migrants are paying taxes, you're crazy fam lol

And if you think that net EU immigration isn't a net contribution to the UK economy and that, on average, EU migrants here don't more than pay there way, then you are (deliberately) ignoring all independent research on the subject."
I'm talking about the 'economic migrants', but you knew that, you just didn't have a response to it

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

But with a right wing media most of your opinions are managed by them.

Some free thinking is needed.

The glaringly obvious fact is that over populating ANY country will make it a less pleasant and ultimately a more dangerous place to live.

and yet violent crime is on a significant downward trend....and continues to fall in spite of unprecedented levels of immigration in the last 20 years.

A real mystery, n'est pas? Are they just biding their time to make things dangerous?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Tax paying? You make me laugh fam ???? We're the ones paying for it haha. Think all the new migrants are paying taxes, you're crazy fam lol

And if you think that net EU immigration isn't a net contribution to the UK economy and that, on average, EU migrants here don't more than pay there way, then you are (deliberately) ignoring all independent research on the subject. I'm talking about the 'economic migrants', but you knew that, you just didn't have a response to it"

Who are the "economic migrants"? Remember to link your research

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By *ittie4UCouple over a year ago

Watford

Was it because I was disparaging of the Daily Mail?

Yes, it's funny though isn't it.

It seems OK for some members to spout propaganda headlined by sections of the UK press and post comments that are clearly absurd. But when others try to bring fact and counter arguments, then they are, of course, pompous.

But then, you have the right to believe whatever you want to believe.

Enjoy Canada. It's a great country with a wonderfully progressive Federal government. I'm sure you will love it.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

But with a right wing media most of your opinions are managed by them.

Some free thinking is needed.

The glaringly obvious fact is that over populating ANY country will make it a less pleasant and ultimately a more dangerous place to live.

and yet violent crime is on a significant downward trend....and continues to fall in spite of unprecedented levels of immigration in the last 20 years.

A real mystery, n'est pas? Are they just biding their time to make things dangerous?"
is this relevant? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/12112024/Violent-crime-jumps-27-in-new-figures.html

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By *ittie4UCouple over a year ago

Watford

"Tax paying? You make me laugh fam ???? We're the ones paying for it haha. Think all the new migrants are paying taxes, you're crazy fam lol

And if you think that net EU immigration isn't a net contribution to the UK economy and that, on average, EU migrants here don't more than pay there way, then you are (deliberately) ignoring all independent research on the subject. I'm talking about the 'economic migrants', but you knew that, you just didn't have a response to it"

Oh, OK. Sorry, no you didn't make that clear and as this was a thread about the EU....

Of course 'economic migrants' are nothing to do with EU membership, as we are not part of Schengen. So we agree then. Great.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Tax paying? You make me laugh fam ???? We're the ones paying for it haha. Think all the new migrants are paying taxes, you're crazy fam lol

And if you think that net EU immigration isn't a net contribution to the UK economy and that, on average, EU migrants here don't more than pay there way, then you are (deliberately) ignoring all independent research on the subject. I'm talking about the 'economic migrants', but you knew that, you just didn't have a response to it

Who are the "economic migrants"? Remember to link your research"
You not been reading the news fam? Smh regressive lefties all the same

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"A poll by Midlands newspaper The Express and Star last week showed the following results...

Leave the EU....80%

Remain in the EU....16%

Don't know.....4%

That seems to be a resounding result in favour of Brexit for the Midlands area.

But the Guess and stir has being a well known bullshit rag for years, I don't believe the date on it most days! It gets its football stories off the fans forums its that wank, and that's not an exaggeration

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

But with a right wing media most of your opinions are managed by them.

Some free thinking is needed.

The glaringly obvious fact is that over populating ANY country will make it a less pleasant and ultimately a more dangerous place to live.

and yet violent crime is on a significant downward trend....and continues to fall in spite of unprecedented levels of immigration in the last 20 years.

A real mystery, n'est pas? Are they just biding their time to make things dangerous? is this relevant? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/12112024/Violent-crime-jumps-27-in-new-figures.html"

I see you've leaned how to use Google in the last couple of hours. Go you.

You should be aware that "research" isn't just leaping upon the first article that supports your point of view. Perhaps try looking up the word "trend" too.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Was it because I was disparaging of the Daily Mail?

Yes, it's funny though isn't it.

But then, you have the right to believe whatever you want to believe.

Enjoy Canada. It's a great country with a wonderfully progressive Federal government. I'm sure you will love it.

"
Feminist Trudeau will bankrupt Canada lol

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By *rightonsteveMan over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

I'd like to make a pint if I may......

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By *rightonsteveMan over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

Sorry point

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

But with a right wing media most of your opinions are managed by them.

Some free thinking is needed.

The glaringly obvious fact is that over populating ANY country will make it a less pleasant and ultimately a more dangerous place to live.

and yet violent crime is on a significant downward trend....and continues to fall in spite of unprecedented levels of immigration in the last 20 years.

A real mystery, n'est pas? Are they just biding their time to make things dangerous? is this relevant? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/12112024/Violent-crime-jumps-27-in-new-figures.html

I see you've leaned how to use Google in the last couple of hours. Go you.

You should be aware that "research" isn't just leaping upon the first article that supports your point of view. Perhaps try looking up the word "trend" too."
I brought the numbers to back up my argument, you still haven't fam. Smh when y'all gonna learn ????

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By *rightonsteveMan over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

Statistics can be manipulated

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It really was a miserable time for the UK economy in the first half of the 70s. There was an oil crisis (I remember being issued with coupons for fuel rationing), a steel crisis, a stock market crash, massive increases in unemployment and it was the entry point for a three year recession. There was an enormously contentious miner's strike and a 3 day week (electricity for 3 days out of 7). The pound collapsed and in 1976 the government had to get a loan from the IMF to tide us over.

In the 40 years since we've grown into a robust and powerful economy and have floated through a number of recessions and other crises. You can decide for yourself if that was due to being in the EU, I just know I wouldn't want to return to the UK of 1970-1976 for any reason at all. It was dire and far worse than anything the so called project fear threatens.

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By *ittie4UCouple over a year ago

Watford

"Feminist Trudeau will bankrupt Canada lol"

Well, the election turned to a Liberal landslide when he said he would run a deficite. So at least the country knew what it was getting.

Maybe Canadian's just failed to read the neo-liberal right-wing press that tells us all that Governments have no role in society and should sell off and downsize and let us all fight it out amongst ourselves without a safety net for the less well off.

Maybe they are just nice people living in a great society that cares: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-35065008

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