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Supermarket fuel
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By *olgateMan
over a year ago
on the road to nowhere in particular |
Doesn't have the same additives and detergents as the branded stuff. At up to 10p per litre cheaper I use it the majority of the time. I do use premium stuff every now and then to clean the system out |
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Nothing - I get the same mpg - extensive test over 20k miles, different fuels, additives etc, worked out pence per mile, only fractions of a penny in it and when you factor in the extra cost, it simply isn't worth it for everyday motoring |
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"used to work in the trade. Most pf it comes out of the same tanks at the depot."
Yes the base fuel comes out of the same tanks, then the brands add their own additives - there is a difference, but not enough to make it worth the extra cost |
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By *olgateMan
over a year ago
on the road to nowhere in particular |
"used to work in the trade. Most pf it comes out of the same tanks at the depot.
Yes the base fuel comes out of the same tanks, then the brands add their own additives - there is a difference, but not enough to make it worth the extra cost"
I knew someone was going to say that. You answered for me.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Tesco garages are Esso.....exactly the same stuff!
I followed an Esso tanker out of an Esso Garage....he pulled out a few cars in front of me. His next delivery was to a Tesco garage a mile or so down the road!
The Tesco garages even have Esso signs n stuff up. Sainsburys is BP.....dunno what Morrisons is?
The fuel comes out of the refineries with the additives in....it's all the same! (Apart from the "superduper " varieties that the garages charge 10p a litre extra for .) |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I dunno, I make my own fuel, it's cleaner and greener and a make it for about 20p a litre!
Open a garage , I'll buy it at that price  "
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It's ridiculously easy, requires a small investment in equipment and a friendly chippy owner, what's more I think you can make about 4000? litres a year perfectly legally providing its for personal use |
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By *horltzMan
over a year ago
heysham |
"I dunno, I make my own fuel, it's cleaner and greener and a make it for about 20p a litre!
Open a garage , I'll buy it at that price .
It's ridiculously easy, requires a small investment in equipment and a friendly chippy owner, what's more I think you can make about 4000? litres a year perfectly legally providing its for personal use"
Is it just for diesels ? |
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It's not the same. At least, not all the time.
The fuel comes from the same tanks but as said, the additives are different and in some cases the supermarkets add up to 5% "bio fuel" to essentially water down the fuel. This is half the reason it cheaper.
The other half is that while, for instance, Shell will always buy from the same source, the supermarkets buy form whoever is cheaper on the day and also buy small amounts (relatively speaking, if you call 32'000 litres a small amount) to "mop up" from various suppliers.
As a result, from supermarkets you sometimes get mixtures of numerous different octane levels and there is an arguments that this is not as good quality as you might expect from a pure source.
I don't touch it myself, but then I'm a bit odd like that. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I dunno, I make my own fuel, it's cleaner and greener and a make it for about 20p a litre!
Open a garage , I'll buy it at that price .
It's ridiculously easy, requires a small investment in equipment and a friendly chippy owner, what's more I think you can make about 4000? litres a year perfectly legally providing its for personal use
Is it just for diesels ?"
.
Well you can make your own petrol but it's harder, costlier and it's a little more hazardous!... Plus I think there's a rule about not storing more than 25 litres!.
I like to do a hundred litres at a time |
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By *horltzMan
over a year ago
heysham |
"I dunno, I make my own fuel, it's cleaner and greener and a make it for about 20p a litre!
Open a garage , I'll buy it at that price .
It's ridiculously easy, requires a small investment in equipment and a friendly chippy owner, what's more I think you can make about 4000? litres a year perfectly legally providing its for personal use
Is it just for diesels ?.
Well you can make your own petrol but it's harder, costlier and it's a little more hazardous!... Plus I think there's a rule about not storing more than 25 litres!.
I like to do a hundred litres at a
time"
Cheers , I'll do some research |
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By *olgateMan
over a year ago
on the road to nowhere in particular |
"Doesn't alter the fact that Tescos is always Esso...exactly the same as branded garages, Sainsburys is BP...again always the same."
The base distillate is the same, the additives are different!
The additives come in 5 gallon drums and are added before they leave the depot |
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The supermarkets don't " add ethanol to water it down" ;
"E5" ( 5%ethanol ) is a common mixed fuel from all suppliers.
All part of the " green initiative"
UK will soon be on " E10" as well. ( if you aren't already . The labels on the pumps indicate which are E5 .
As to additives; yes; there are some basic additives in All fuel; individual fuel companies then add small amounts of their own additives; which are marketed as lubricators; octane enhancers, detergents, combustion improves, and loads of other bollocks.
And it is bollocks; none of it makes the slightest real difference to the actual fuel performance . And all the " secret magic " ingredients in the " different" fuels are actually the same chemicals, whatever name the fuel has.
Supermarkets sel cheap fuel because they buy fuel in two ways; contracted guaranteed amounts from the big fuel comoanies at discount, and " spot purchases " of bulk when the price is right. The big supermarkets can afford to sell at a smaller profit margin due to economies of scale that the high street garage can't match.
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By *htcMan
over a year ago
MK |
there is no difference, the ones in the super markets and forecourts are super/ultra low sulphur diesel or low sulphur unleaded.
they have no effect on the lifespan of the engine or mpg regardless of where you fill up, unless you are buying something like bp ultimate you will not notice the performance difference or difference in the mpg of your car.
since 2006 eu law has come in to reduce sulphur the fuel, and slowing decreasing its value. all forecourt are required to follow the same regulations this is both eu law and uk law. |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"there is no difference, the ones in the super markets and forecourts are super/ultra low sulphur diesel or low sulphur unleaded.
they have no effect on the lifespan of the engine or mpg regardless of where you fill up, unless you are buying something like bp ultimate you will not notice the performance difference or difference in the mpg of your car.
since 2006 eu law has come in to reduce sulphur the fuel, and slowing decreasing its value. all forecourt are required to follow the same regulations this is both eu law and uk law. "
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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It can also depend on your car as well but I've always found Morrison's fuel has never agreed with any of my cars. I much prefer shell optimax but then again I can't use anything less than 99 Ron. X |
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"there is no difference, the ones in the super markets and forecourts are super/ultra low sulphur diesel or low sulphur unleaded.
they have no effect on the lifespan of the engine or mpg regardless of where you fill up, unless you are buying something like bp ultimate you will not notice the performance difference or difference in the mpg of your car.
since 2006 eu law has come in to reduce sulphur the fuel, and slowing decreasing its value. all forecourt are required to follow the same regulations this is both eu law and uk law. "
Correct |
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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago
Somewhere in North Norfolk |
"What's wrong with it?"
Nothing, if you like that sort of thing
The cheapest place here for fuel is usually Asda but I won't go there because I don't like the setup of the forecourt and it's always chaos there.
Unless you've got a performance car or highly tuned engine, the effective difference between branded and supermarket fuel is probably price. |
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By *tevelizCouple
over a year ago
northampton |
when i was in the trade there were times that Esso tankers would fill from our Shell/bp tanks and the other way around.
"Tesco garages are Esso.....exactly the same stuff!
I followed an Esso tanker out of an Esso Garage....he pulled out a few cars in front of me. His next delivery was to a Tesco garage a mile or so down the road!
The Tesco garages even have Esso signs n stuff up. Sainsburys is BP.....dunno what Morrisons is?
The fuel comes out of the refineries with the additives in....it's all the same! (Apart from the "superduper " varieties that the garages charge 10p a litre extra for .)"
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By *olgateMan
over a year ago
on the road to nowhere in particular |
If there were no difference all the oil companies would have been prosecuted by trading standards. By now.
The base fuel which can come from any refinery must comply with BS standards or equivalent. The additives and detergents are added by the individual companies. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Tankers aren't just one big tank?, there like lots of little tanks, you can put diesel in one tank and high octane diesel in another, I guess you could even put shell petrol in one and esso petrol in the other if you wanted to save money you could get shell to deliver your esso petrol and vise versa |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I only buy my biscuits directly from the biscuit factory. More expensive but more oats per bite than at the supermarket "
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Do you reckon mcvities make those aldi biscuits but then just use a little less oats... Sneaky buggers |
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By *errygTV/TS
over a year ago
denton |
"used to work in the trade. Most pf it comes out of the same tanks at the depot.
Yes the base fuel comes out of the same tanks, then the brands add their own additives - there is a difference, but not enough to make it worth the extra cost"
i was told that at a oil refinery, some add a dye to match the brand, one thing todays fuels are a lot better than yrs ago, i used supermarket and garage fuel not really noticed a differance |
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By *errygTV/TS
over a year ago
denton |
"Tankers aren't just one big tank?, there like lots of little tanks, you can put diesel in one tank and high octane diesel in another, I guess you could even put shell petrol in one and esso petrol in the other if you wanted to save money you could get shell to deliver your esso petrol and vise versa"
years ago i worked on a sea going tanker for mobil, fuel is bought and sold on spot charter, i have been in shell bp chevron refinerys on a mobil ship, they all just put their own additives in
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By *artytwoCouple
over a year ago
Wolverhampton |
You can use old chip fat (cooking oil) in diesels. A friend of mine had a pub and I used to 'dispose' of his old oil for him. Strained through D's old tights to get rid of the bits, it worked great during the summer but I never used it in winter due to waxing. This was an old Golf Tdi however. More modern diesels don't work too well with it due to these digital (or something) injectors. The smell as you drive down the street makes everyone following hungry |
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By *olgateMan
over a year ago
on the road to nowhere in particular |
"You can use old chip fat (cooking oil) in diesels. A friend of mine had a pub and I used to 'dispose' of his old oil for him. Strained through D's old tights to get rid of the bits, it worked great during the summer but I never used it in winter due to waxing. This was an old Golf Tdi however. More modern diesels don't work too well with it due to these digital (or something) injectors. The smell as you drive down the street makes everyone following hungry"
I would never use old chip fat without proper refining. It contains small particles, emulsions and water. All of which are bad for the fuel pump and injectors.
I used to use fresh veg oil in my old haddock in the summer. The engine was smoother, quieter and more powerful than when running on diesel.
I did feel hungry all the time though |
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By *athnBobCouple
over a year ago
sandwell |
"
I used to use fresh veg oil in my old haddock in the summer. The engine was smoother, quieter and more powerful than when running on diesel.
I did feel hungry all the time though "
I either buy bio diesel from a garage not far from work @30p a Ltr less or during the summer I buy a large drum of veg oil from the cash and carry and mix it with regular dino juice. I have to change the fuel filter more often but that is a 5 minute job (if that) and costs £4 it is no great hardship |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Got to admit get much better performance in my car if I don't use supermarket fuel tbh, much of the time I use super-unleaded seems to give my car the extra grunt. |
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By *athnBobCouple
over a year ago
sandwell |
"i wouldnt chance old chip fat, fuel pumps are built to fine tolerances so are injectors thus very expensive to repair"
Depends on the car. We have 3, a 35 year old, a 25 year old and a 1 year old. First 2 are more than happy but the 1 year old would keel over and die
The first diesel engine was design to run on peanut oil BTW because they thought the world was about to run out of dino juice at the turn of the century (that was 1900!) |
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"i wouldnt chance old chip fat, fuel pumps are built to fine tolerances so are injectors thus very expensive to repair"
Generally it's the rubber in the hoses and seals of newer cars that have the problem.
Before you use vegetable oil to run an engine or make bio fuel it is filtered to remove particals and has any water drained off... |
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"i wouldnt chance old chip fat, fuel pumps are built to fine tolerances so are injectors thus very expensive to repair"
Old cooking oil works ok in old Diesel engines ( used to put it in an old landrover) but not in modern engines,
But it is very easy to actually make proper bio diesel; you filter the cooking oil, add sodium hydroxide, some methanol, warm it and stir it, let residue settle out, decant it and it's done .
It shouldn't be used in the most sophisticated diesels, but works fine in others. It won't work well in winter as it goes waxy in the cold . ( commercial diesel has a" winter grade" which has a waxing inhibitor added.)
It's legal to make your own , ( up to a certain amount) for your own use. -as long as you do it safely.
You are supposed to send HMRC a declaration of how much you have used/ made; up to a certain level, they don't tax it.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Nothing - I get the same mpg - extensive test over 20k miles, different fuels, additives etc, worked out pence per mile, only fractions of a penny in it and when you factor in the extra cost, it simply isn't worth it for everyday motoring"
Take the head off your engine then you'll see the difference.
Supermarket fuel IS the same fuel as everywhere else it just doesn't have the detergents and additives that other brands, such as Shell, add at the pump.
Over time you get excessive carbon build up around the valves, injectors and inside the combustion chamber. Also the diesel contains more soot after combustion meaning you're more likely to have issues with the EGR valve, MAP sensor, DPF filter, lambda sensors, throttle body, swirl valves and inlet manifold. This can lead to poor emissions and often premature engine failure due to the swirl flaps getting clogged up, coming loose and dropping into a cylinder.
I personally would only use the stuff in an absolute emergency and also add a bottle of fuel system cleaner at the same time. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Lucas pumps don't like veg oil. Bear this in mind if you want to experiment "
DON'T do this with a modern direct injection diesel engine, you'll kill it.
Only the older mechanical injection engines. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Tesco garages are Esso.....exactly the same stuff!
I followed an Esso tanker out of an Esso Garage....he pulled out a few cars in front of me. His next delivery was to a Tesco garage a mile or so down the road!
The Tesco garages even have Esso signs n stuff up. Sainsburys is BP.....dunno what Morrisons is?
The fuel comes out of the refineries with the additives in....it's all the same! (Apart from the "superduper " varieties that the garages charge 10p a litre extra for .)"
Exactly
Grangemouth; the one refinery supplies ALL the garages and supermarkets. (the different tankers are filled from the same tanks).
Supermarkets take a cut & loss at the pumps to encourage people to come in and shop, their tanks are normally cleaner too, not as much sludge as older garages |
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If you travel on motorways and towns alot eg: on holiday, work when you need to fill up or top up on fuel where ever you might be at the time what difference does it make & how can you tell, the fuel in your tank will be all mixed up anyway |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I used to use fresh veg oil in my old haddock in the summer. The engine was smoother, quieter and more powerful than when running on diesel.
I did feel hungry all the time though
I either buy bio diesel from a garage not far from work @30p a Ltr less or during the summer I buy a large drum of veg oil from the cash and carry and mix it with regular dino juice. I have to change the fuel filter more often but that is a 5 minute job (if that) and costs £4 it is no great hardship "
.
It's really not that hard to make your own bio diesel from the veg oil, a basic centrifuge,a heater some bits and bobs and a bit of knowledge, don't get me wrong you can run them on veg oil easily with a few changes to your vehicle like pre heaters, filters, different injectors, pump seals and alike but I like to just refine my own bio diesel in the shed.
.
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As a pedantic side note, regular oil was actually vastly made from plant life not dinosaurs perse, the carboniferous period (high c02) produced huge amounts of plants, firs(not trees they hadn't evolved yet) and algae, these plants used photosynthesis to convert carbon into oxygen and made the atmosphere as we know it today with a 21% oxygen level, photosynthesis converts solar energy into plant matter.
.
.
So in a way were still running on solar energy in one form or another |
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"Nothing - I get the same mpg - extensive test over 20k miles, different fuels, additives etc, worked out pence per mile, only fractions of a penny in it and when you factor in the extra cost, it simply isn't worth it for everyday motoring
Take the head off your engine then you'll see the difference.
Supermarket fuel IS the same fuel as everywhere else it just doesn't have the detergents and additives that other brands, such as Shell, add at the pump.
Over time you get excessive carbon build up around the valves, injectors and inside the combustion chamber. Also the diesel contains more soot after combustion meaning you're more likely to have issues with the EGR valve, MAP sensor, DPF filter, lambda sensors, throttle body, swirl valves and inlet manifold. This can lead to poor emissions and often premature engine failure due to the swirl flaps getting clogged up, coming loose and dropping into a cylinder.
I personally would only use the stuff in an absolute emergency and also add a bottle of fuel system cleaner at the same time."
Sorry but that is utter nonsense; it has all the additives it needs; supermarket fuel will not do any of the things stated above; if it did, it could not be sold; because all fuel has to meet particular standards.
It is all Shell/ Essie/ texaco/ whatever fuel.
In fact if you were to follow a Shell tanker, you would probably see it go into a Shell garage to top up some Tanks; then go to a Tesco/Sainsburys and fill their tanks. In fact where I used to live, there was a Shell Garage almost directly opposite the Sainsburys; tankers would often be filling the Shell Garage, then drive straight across the road to top up the Sainsburys petrol station.
Presumably they have a special filter to take out all the " good stuff" from the fuel, and add special extra shit into it for the supermarkets ?
Take it from someone who used to buy fuel for a large organisation.
It's all the same stuff! The basic additives are in all of it!
The " special additives" in particular fuel are bullshit and are so diluted that they have no effect on the fuel performance at all .
As a senior chemist from a large petrol company told me " it's all complete bullshit; but customers believe it, and so we have to play the game and put traces of this stuff in the fuel , so that we can legally market it as "sooperdooper power max " or some other rubbish. The standard stuff has all the detergents and stuff you need ." |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Nothing - I get the same mpg - extensive test over 20k miles, different fuels, additives etc, worked out pence per mile, only fractions of a penny in it and when you factor in the extra cost, it simply isn't worth it for everyday motoring
Take the head off your engine then you'll see the difference.
Supermarket fuel IS the same fuel as everywhere else it just doesn't have the detergents and additives that other brands, such as Shell, add at the pump.
Over time you get excessive carbon build up around the valves, injectors and inside the combustion chamber. Also the diesel contains more soot after combustion meaning you're more likely to have issues with the EGR valve, MAP sensor, DPF filter, lambda sensors, throttle body, swirl valves and inlet manifold. This can lead to poor emissions and often premature engine failure due to the swirl flaps getting clogged up, coming loose and dropping into a cylinder.
I personally would only use the stuff in an absolute emergency and also add a bottle of fuel system cleaner at the same time.
Sorry but that is utter nonsense; it has all the additives it needs; supermarket fuel will not do any of the things stated above; if it did, it could not be sold; because all fuel has to meet particular standards.
It is all Shell/ Essie/ texaco/ whatever fuel.
In fact if you were to follow a Shell tanker, you would probably see it go into a Shell garage to top up some Tanks; then go to a Tesco/Sainsburys and fill their tanks. In fact where I used to live, there was a Shell Garage almost directly opposite the Sainsburys; tankers would often be filling the Shell Garage, then drive straight across the road to top up the Sainsburys petrol station.
Presumably they have a special filter to take out all the " good stuff" from the fuel, and add special extra shit into it for the supermarkets ?
Take it from someone who used to buy fuel for a large organisation.
It's all the same stuff! The basic additives are in all of it!
The " special additives" in particular fuel are bullshit and are so diluted that they have no effect on the fuel performance at all .
As a senior chemist from a large petrol company told me " it's all complete bullshit; but customers believe it, and so we have to play the game and put traces of this stuff in the fuel , so that we can legally market it as "sooperdooper power max " or some other rubbish. The standard stuff has all the detergents and stuff you need .""
Did you actually read the start of my post?
I stated that it IS the same fuel as all other garages.
The fuel you get at the supermarket meets the minimum requirements to be sold, that doesn't mean it's good fuel. The companies such as Shell, Esso and BP add the additives and detergents at the pump (as I stated).
MrWho. |
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By *artytwoCouple
over a year ago
Wolverhampton |
"You can use old chip fat (cooking oil) in diesels. A friend of mine had a pub and I used to 'dispose' of his old oil for him. Strained through D's old tights to get rid of the bits, it worked great during the summer but I never used it in winter due to waxing. This was an old Golf Tdi however. More modern diesels don't work too well with it due to these digital (or something) injectors. The smell as you drive down the street makes everyone following hungry
I would never use old chip fat without proper refining. It contains small particles, emulsions and water. All of which are bad for the fuel pump and injectors.
I used to use fresh veg oil in my old haddock in the summer. The engine was smoother, quieter and more powerful than when running on diesel.
I did feel hungry all the time though "
Well, I ran the the old Golf Tdi 130 on all sorts for about 2 years and it never gave any trouble. In winter I used something else which was naughty but bought the blue dye off the web. You have to change the fuel filter more regular to keep the bits of chip and batter out of the system btw.
As others have said, modern diesels don't like bio. We tried bio (from a garage) in our fiat 2.3JTD van and we had to replace injectors which cost us a fortune |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Is it just me or have anyone noticed how quick the fuel prices went up everywhere after the budget?"
that because the price of oil has started creeping back up.... nothing to do with the budget.... and more to do with the talking between opec and russia to limit oil production..... |
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By *errygTV/TS
over a year ago
denton |
i got caught yrs ago with red diesel, even if you put blue dye in it they may smell a rat, im not sure if the mod dye theirs blue, all red diesel is normal diesel with a red dye , so they can tell its bought for industrial use |
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By *errygTV/TS
over a year ago
denton |
"Is it just me or have anyone noticed how quick the fuel prices went up everywhere after the budget?
that because the price of oil has started creeping back up.... nothing to do with the budget.... and more to do with the talking between opec and russia to limit oil production....."
i will bet the THE SUN wont take the credit for that, when the price dropped they said it was their keep fuel down canpaign, also all the papers went up slyly 10p last week |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Nothing - I get the same mpg - extensive test over 20k miles, different fuels, additives etc, worked out pence per mile, only fractions of a penny in it and when you factor in the extra cost, it simply isn't worth it for everyday motoring
Take the head off your engine then you'll see the difference.
Supermarket fuel IS the same fuel as everywhere else it just doesn't have the detergents and additives that other brands, such as Shell, add at the pump.
Over time you get excessive carbon build up around the valves, injectors and inside the combustion chamber. Also the diesel contains more soot after combustion meaning you're more likely to have issues with the EGR valve, MAP sensor, DPF filter, lambda sensors, throttle body, swirl valves and inlet manifold. This can lead to poor emissions and often premature engine failure due to the swirl flaps getting clogged up, coming loose and dropping into a cylinder.
I personally would only use the stuff in an absolute emergency and also add a bottle of fuel system cleaner at the same time.
Sorry but that is utter nonsense; it has all the additives it needs; supermarket fuel will not do any of the things stated above; if it did, it could not be sold; because all fuel has to meet particular standards.
It is all Shell/ Essie/ texaco/ whatever fuel.
In fact if you were to follow a Shell tanker, you would probably see it go into a Shell garage to top up some Tanks; then go to a Tesco/Sainsburys and fill their tanks. In fact where I used to live, there was a Shell Garage almost directly opposite the Sainsburys; tankers would often be filling the Shell Garage, then drive straight across the road to top up the Sainsburys petrol station.
Presumably they have a special filter to take out all the " good stuff" from the fuel, and add special extra shit into it for the supermarkets ?
Take it from someone who used to buy fuel for a large organisation.
It's all the same stuff! The basic additives are in all of it!
The " special additives" in particular fuel are bullshit and are so diluted that they have no effect on the fuel performance at all .
As a senior chemist from a large petrol company told me " it's all complete bullshit; but customers believe it, and so we have to play the game and put traces of this stuff in the fuel , so that we can legally market it as "sooperdooper power max " or some other rubbish. The standard stuff has all the detergents and stuff you need .""
i do like the thought of a tanker driver having a special box marked "extra shit" that they can sprinkle when they get to the supermarket forecourt...........
do they get sacked if they forget to put it on......
do they get sacked if they put in too much!!! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Nothing - I get the same mpg - extensive test over 20k miles, different fuels, additives etc, worked out pence per mile, only fractions of a penny in it and when you factor in the extra cost, it simply isn't worth it for everyday motoring
Take the head off your engine then you'll see the difference.
Supermarket fuel IS the same fuel as everywhere else it just doesn't have the detergents and additives that other brands, such as Shell, add at the pump.
Over time you get excessive carbon build up around the valves, injectors and inside the combustion chamber. Also the diesel contains more soot after combustion meaning you're more likely to have issues with the EGR valve, MAP sensor, DPF filter, lambda sensors, throttle body, swirl valves and inlet manifold. This can lead to poor emissions and often premature engine failure due to the swirl flaps getting clogged up, coming loose and dropping into a cylinder.
I personally would only use the stuff in an absolute emergency and also add a bottle of fuel system cleaner at the same time.
Sorry but that is utter nonsense; it has all the additives it needs; supermarket fuel will not do any of the things stated above; if it did, it could not be sold; because all fuel has to meet particular standards.
It is all Shell/ Essie/ texaco/ whatever fuel.
In fact if you were to follow a Shell tanker, you would probably see it go into a Shell garage to top up some Tanks; then go to a Tesco/Sainsburys and fill their tanks. In fact where I used to live, there was a Shell Garage almost directly opposite the Sainsburys; tankers would often be filling the Shell Garage, then drive straight across the road to top up the Sainsburys petrol station.
Presumably they have a special filter to take out all the " good stuff" from the fuel, and add special extra shit into it for the supermarkets ?
Take it from someone who used to buy fuel for a large organisation.
It's all the same stuff! The basic additives are in all of it!
The " special additives" in particular fuel are bullshit and are so diluted that they have no effect on the fuel performance at all .
As a senior chemist from a large petrol company told me " it's all complete bullshit; but customers believe it, and so we have to play the game and put traces of this stuff in the fuel , so that we can legally market it as "sooperdooper power max " or some other rubbish. The standard stuff has all the detergents and stuff you need ."
i do like the thought of a tanker driver having a special box marked "extra shit" that they can sprinkle when they get to the supermarket forecourt...........
do they get sacked if they forget to put it on......
do they get sacked if they put in too much!!! "
It has nothing to do with the tanker driver or the tanker delivering the fuel. The additives are added at the pump by the garage. Not a difficult concept to understand really.
Mrwho. |
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OMG!
How DO you guys know all this stuff???
AND do you really sit there & compare how many mpg you get on ASDA, BP or Shell fuel for example!?! And then analyse your err…contents of your fuel tank or the state of your 'valves' or whatever???
I can't believe it!?!
And is the chemical composition of used vegetable oil that similar to diesel?
This stuff is blowing my mind & that so rarely happens  |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"
It has nothing to do with the tanker driver or the tanker delivering the fuel. The additives are added at the pump by the garage. Not a difficult concept to understand really.
Mrwho."
I know..... I was being facetious because the person above me was being sarcastic by mentioning a box of "extra shit".........
its nowhere near as fun when you have to explain the joke..... probably why i gave up comedy......  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"OMG!
How DO you guys know all this stuff???
AND do you really sit there & compare how many mpg you get on ASDA, BP or Shell fuel for example!?! And then analyse your err…contents of your fuel tank or the state of your 'valves' or whatever???
I can't believe it!?!
And is the chemical composition of used vegetable oil that similar to diesel?
This stuff is blowing my mind & that so rarely happens "
30yrs of playing with engines and following the innovations within the industry. I'm also a member of several motoring associations and owners clubs, we exchange a lot of information and statistics in order to keep our vehicles in then best mechanical condition. |
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"I dunno, I make my own fuel, it's cleaner and greener and a make it for about 20p a litre!
Open a garage , I'll buy it at that price .
It's ridiculously easy, requires a small investment in equipment and a friendly chippy owner, what's more I think you can make about 4000? litres a year perfectly legally providing its for personal use
Is it just for diesels ?.
Well you can make your own petrol but it's harder, costlier and it's a little more hazardous!... Plus I think there's a rule about not storing more than 25 litres!.
I like to do a hundred litres at a time"
Wow!!
Could you please explain what 'petrol' is…in the sense of what its composed of? I assume its derived from crude oil…which is why the price of a barrel of oil affects petrol prices so acutely ??
Could you please explain the legalities of 'home made ' petrol…I'm seriously intrigued now…. |
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"OMG!
How DO you guys know all this stuff???
AND do you really sit there & compare how many mpg you get on ASDA, BP or Shell fuel for example!?! And then analyse your err…contents of your fuel tank or the state of your 'valves' or whatever???
I can't believe it!?!
And is the chemical composition of used vegetable oil that similar to diesel?
This stuff is blowing my mind & that so rarely happens
30yrs of playing with engines and following the innovations within the industry. I'm also a member of several motoring associations and owners clubs, we exchange a lot of information and statistics in order to keep our vehicles in then best mechanical condition."
Gulp!
I had no idea that all this kind of thing went on…this has really taken the lid off a lot of the 'mystery' surrounding cars for me…I now feel utterly dim-witted to have only ever really considered the cost of fuel
What an amazing thread…this has to be the most informative thread I've ever read, ever…
(thank you)  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"OMG!
How DO you guys know all this stuff???
AND do you really sit there & compare how many mpg you get on ASDA, BP or Shell fuel for example!?! And then analyse your err…contents of your fuel tank or the state of your 'valves' or whatever???
I can't believe it!?!
And is the chemical composition of used vegetable oil that similar to diesel?
This stuff is blowing my mind & that so rarely happens "
.
Diesel is just a slightly more refined paraffin/kerosene, it's basically an oil.
Veg oil/soya/sunflower/fats are basically glycerol or sugar liquid, that's a fancy hydrogen chain compound, you can make explosives from it glycerin (TNT).
Petrol is a little bit different as it's effectively the gaseous vapour, with chemicals added to keep in liquid form, LPG is similar to petrol but in gas form, liquidised only by pressure!.
The common thread is that they all go boom in one form or another, some slowly some quickly but essentially it's the boom that makes the piston go up and down.
There's added problems with viscosity and lubrication but everything is doable providing you have a little bit of knowledge! |
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By *olgateMan
over a year ago
on the road to nowhere in particular |
Crude oil is thick lumpy tar like liquid. Paraffin, diesel, petrol etc all have different boiling points. Refineries take the crude and heat it to produce the different products. The crude is boiled at different temperatures. Lpg has a very low boiling point. As the product gets heavier the boiling point increases. Diesel is classed as a heavy oil, petroleum or gasoline is a distillate |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I dunno, I make my own fuel, it's cleaner and greener and a make it for about 20p a litre!
Open a garage , I'll buy it at that price .
It's ridiculously easy, requires a small investment in equipment and a friendly chippy owner, what's more I think you can make about 4000? litres a year perfectly legally providing its for personal use
Is it just for diesels ?.
Well you can make your own petrol but it's harder, costlier and it's a little more hazardous!... Plus I think there's a rule about not storing more than 25 litres!.
I like to do a hundred litres at a time
Wow!!
Could you please explain what 'petrol' is…in the sense of what its composed of? I assume its derived from crude oil…which is why the price of a barrel of oil affects petrol prices so acutely ??
Could you please explain the legalities of 'home made ' petrol…I'm seriously intrigued now…."
.
Sorry I missed your post.
It's actually quite an intriguing subject, but a hard one to explain easily especially as I'm not a chemist lol.
Petroleum (crude oil) are at heart hydrocarbon molecules, they break these down into smaller different molecules by refining(cracking off the oil) basically pressure and temperature.... So you put crude oil in and get lots of different chemicals out(petrol, diesel, kerosene etc etc) (light crude or sweet crude) needs less refining and makes transportation fuels quite easily, (heavy crude) is alot harder takes more refining and tends to be used more for making chemicals for plastics and such as it's hydrogen levels are not always high enough(they can add hydrogen to it, but that all adds to cost) hydrogen is the essential ingredient in fuels unfortunately it's bonded to carbon so that's why we get the c02 problem from "burning" it... In reality when making a fuel, what your really looking for is the hydrogen content, what and how that's bonded to other elements gives it it's slow or fast "burn" and obviously the problems with the emissions afterwards.
The unfortunate but with hydrogen is that it's not available anywhere on the planet on its own, so you need to separate it from other elements, it's this separation where you get the energy from, so you always have to put x energy in to get x hydrogen out!.
I'm waffling a bit now, but that's the basic premise |
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"OMG!
How DO you guys know all this stuff???
AND do you really sit there & compare how many mpg you get on ASDA, BP or Shell fuel for example!?! And then analyse your err…contents of your fuel tank or the state of your 'valves' or whatever???
I can't believe it!?!
And is the chemical composition of used vegetable oil that similar to diesel?
This stuff is blowing my mind & that so rarely happens "
You're not alone.
And I'm part of the same species as them. |
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"
Could you please explain the legalities of 'home made ' petrol…I'm seriously intrigued now…."
Home made " diesel" is relatively easy as above:
To make homemade petrol is a lot more difficult; you need to start from crude petroleum ; and do a complex "distillation".
It's also fucking dangerous. Not worth the bother.
You can, of course make your own ethanol ( alcohol); and a lot of modern " petrol" has 5% Ethanol in it. A " petrol" engine will run on ethanol , but Ned's quite a bit of modification to do it properly.
you can make ethanol the same way you make wine or beer: it's just brewing sugar ( fruit, grain, vegetables) fermenting with yeast, then filtering and distilling . Distilling is illegal in UK unless you have a Licence .
The legalities:
Anything " distilled" is illegal in UK without a Licence.
Diesel doesn't need to be distilled if you are making it from chip oil.
But the government imposes taxes (VAT and fuel duty) on all fuel. If you make a small amount, ( cant remember the quantity ; I think it's something like 4000 liters a year) for your own use, not for resale; you don't have to pay tax on it.
you are supposed to tell the taxman, and send him a spreadsheet showing how much you have made. Up to the limit , he doesn't tax you; after that, you pay fuel duty on each litre you make.
Other than that, you have a legal duty to do it safely, without hazard to neighbours etc.
That's it..... It's just time consuming, ( a batch takes about a day, as you have to filter it, do the chemistry ( it has to " cook" for a few hours) then settle and be separated. You need a large shed/ garage to do it in ( you need to make at least 50/100 litres at a time.)
And you have to find a friendly chippy: bear in mind, old chip fat is now actually being bought up and recycled into bio diesel by a number of small " green energy companies"; so " giveaway" chip oil is becoming rare.
|
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"OMG!
How DO you guys know all this stuff???
AND do you really sit there & compare how many mpg you get on ASDA, BP or Shell fuel for example!?! And then analyse your err…contents of your fuel tank or the state of your 'valves' or whatever???
I can't believe it!?!
And is the chemical composition of used vegetable oil that similar to diesel?
This stuff is blowing my mind & that so rarely happens
You're not alone.
And I'm part of the same species as them. "
I know…who would have thought it… I've obviously under estimated this place in the past…I'm happy to now stand corrected!! |
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"OMG!
How DO you guys know all this stuff???
AND do you really sit there & compare how many mpg you get on ASDA, BP or Shell fuel for example!?! And then analyse your err…contents of your fuel tank or the state of your 'valves' or whatever???
I can't believe it!?!
And is the chemical composition of used vegetable oil that similar to diesel?
This stuff is blowing my mind & that so rarely happens
You're not alone.
And I'm part of the same species as them.
I know…who would have thought it… I've obviously under estimated this place in the past…I'm happy to now stand corrected!!"
Well, I'm not even worthy.
All I can distinguish is, one pump says diesel and is black, the other unleaded petrol and is green.
I'm just thankful I don't get them mixed up!  |
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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago
Somewhere in North Norfolk |
"I actually am a chemist and I don't find petrol or diesel remotely exciting. I'm clearly missing something. 
The Clarkson-gene "
Thank goodness for that.
I am, however, a lover of performance cars and of driving. |
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"I actually am a chemist and I don't find petrol or diesel remotely exciting. I'm clearly missing something. "
its definitely just me…I loved chemistry but went into the Arts, so I'm just filling some gaps that Chemists know already, I guess…its just so rare that chemistry comes up in my world |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Nothing wrong with it.
And as for the argument about getting better mpg from branded fuels, extensive tests have been done and allowing for the price premium, there's nothing in it cost-wise."
You've clearly seen different test results than I have then! |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Fuel is slowly but surely starting to creep up in price again. X"
the price of oil has started creeping up again... it did hit a low of just under 30 dollars a barrel and at the moment it is just below 40..... |
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"Nothing - I get the same mpg - extensive test over 20k miles, different fuels, additives etc, worked out pence per mile, only fractions of a penny in it and when you factor in the extra cost, it simply isn't worth it for everyday motoring
Take the head off your engine then you'll see the difference.
Supermarket fuel IS the same fuel as everywhere else it just doesn't have the detergents and additives that other brands, such as Shell, add at the pump.
Over time you get excessive carbon build up around the valves, injectors and inside the combustion chamber. Also the diesel contains more soot after combustion meaning you're more likely to have issues with the EGR valve, MAP sensor, DPF filter, lambda sensors, throttle body, swirl valves and inlet manifold. This can lead to poor emissions and often premature engine failure due to the swirl flaps getting clogged up, coming loose and dropping into a cylinder.
I personally would only use the stuff in an absolute emergency and also add a bottle of fuel system cleaner at the same time."
Why would I take the head off a perfectly good engine that's been running fine for over 200,000 miles? Premature engine failure - don't make me laugh |
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"anyway.... being the eco hippy i am..... wait till the "baby tesla" is finally revealed next week... then all i'll need to rely on is the price of electricity!!!
(p.s is it being marketed , the madel 3, as coming at somewhere between 25 and 30 thousand.... and that is before the 4500 government EV discount..... )"
But if you are using electrical cars for ecological reasons, it's rather a bad idea at the moment; the CO 2 produced when generating the electricity to run the car is more than the CO 2 generated in driving a petrol car, and the immense Eco damage done in making the batteries ( and disposing of them) is eye- watering... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Tankers aren't just one big tank?, there like lots of little tanks, you can put diesel in one tank and high octane diesel in another, I guess you could even put shell petrol in one and esso petrol in the other if you wanted to save money you could get shell to deliver your esso petrol and vise versayears ago i worked on a sea going tanker for mobil, fuel is bought and sold on spot charter, i have been in shell bp chevron refinerys on a mobil ship, they all just put their own additives in"
Exxon Mobil has a fantastic pension that's why guys like us can retire young |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"anyway.... being the eco hippy i am..... wait till the "baby tesla" is finally revealed next week... then all i'll need to rely on is the price of electricity!!!
(p.s is it being marketed , the madel 3, as coming at somewhere between 25 and 30 thousand.... and that is before the 4500 government EV discount..... )
But if you are using electrical cars for ecological reasons, it's rather a bad idea at the moment; the CO 2 produced when generating the electricity to run the car is more than the CO 2 generated in driving a petrol car, and the immense Eco damage done in making the batteries ( and disposing of them) is eye- watering..."
Electric cars are only good for the lack of pollutants coming from the car. Before that point they don't make ecological sense.
I believe the way forward is in hydrogen which is currently in development, it has the advantage that it is the most abundant substance we have, it burns very cleanly and is non-toxic. |
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By *MaleMan
over a year ago
|
Some of the super unleaded blends are different depending on brand. In two distribution depots I'm aware of the regular unleaded comes from the same tanks that all the road tankers load up from. |
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"a
Electric cars are only good for the lack of pollutants coming from the car. Before that point they don't make ecological sense.
I believe the way forward is in hydrogen which is currently in development, it has the advantage that it is the most abundant substance we have, it burns very cleanly and is non-toxic. "
Does it work in reverse as well?
But seriously, yes Hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe, but we do not have the required molecular gaseous hydrogen needed. That has to either be electrolysed from water (there's that electricity thing again), or more environmentally damaging, by the re-gassification of coal.
I'm with Brian Cox and several other leading physicists, we need to sort fusion out. 30 years ago when I first studied fusion, it was said to be about 5-10 years away - it still is |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"a
Electric cars are only good for the lack of pollutants coming from the car. Before that point they don't make ecological sense.
I believe the way forward is in hydrogen which is currently in development, it has the advantage that it is the most abundant substance we have, it burns very cleanly and is non-toxic.
Does it work in reverse as well?
But seriously, yes Hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe, but we do not have the required molecular gaseous hydrogen needed. That has to either be electrolysed from water (there's that electricity thing again), or more environmentally damaging, by the re-gassification of coal.
I'm with Brian Cox and several other leading physicists, we need to sort fusion out. 30 years ago when I first studied fusion, it was said to be about 5-10 years away - it still is "
.
Nobody ever gets that point, they just buy into the spin that they can keep on trucking on!.
1 kW of hydrogen in your car requires 1.6 kW of electricity in electrolysis... Yep you might as well just put the 1.6kw of electric straight into the car in the first place.
I'm with you and Brian cox and most physics professors... We really need fusion and like yesterday, you just get that awful feeling that it's a technology that might not be mastered for a long long time due to engineering complexity |
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