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Ia Duncan smith resigns
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"who is he??" I'm guessing he means Ian Duncan Smith, ex leader of the Conservative party. | |||
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"who is he??" minister of state for work and pensions.... which says to me really unhappy about the cuts to the disability budget... and says to me those cuts at the expense of the cuts made for higher earning tax payers was driven thru by the treasury.... | |||
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"oh rights , thanx, poolitics not my thing" wellya knoo naw  | |||
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"who is he?? minister of state for work and pensions.... which says to me really unhappy about the cuts to the disability budget... and says to me those cuts at the expense of the cuts made for higher earning tax payers was driven thru by the treasury.... " she's making fun of my typing skillz | |||
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"Never saw that coming particularly over the cuts to disability benefits. Be very interesting to see how this spirals " this.. given there are meant to be about 20 other tory MP's also unhappy it could be a tricky one.. | |||
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"He is a cunt of a man ...snivelling and a right bell end " yes he's an arrogant man. Possibly jeremy hunt will take over when the nhs is dead | |||
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"Never saw that coming particularly over the cuts to disability benefits. Be very interesting to see how this spirals " loving this 2nd paragraph..... shows where he is putting the blame “I have for some time and rather reluctantly come to believe that the latest changes to benefits to the disabled, and the context in which they’ve been made are, a compromise too far. “While they are defensible in narrow terms, given the continuing deficit, they are not defensible in the way they were placed within a budget that benefits higher earning taxpayers. They should have instead been part of a wider process to engage others in finding the best way to better focus resources on those most in need. | |||
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"Never saw that coming particularly over the cuts to disability benefits. Be very interesting to see how this spirals this.. given there are meant to be about 20 other tory MP's also unhappy it could be a tricky one.." it will be more than 20... and i bet this never see's the light of day..... george thought he had ids to deflect the blame.... ids said "not me" and bolted for all the thing IDS could have gone for... this is almost noble... i said almost!!!!! | |||
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"Never saw that coming particularly over the cuts to disability benefits. Be very interesting to see how this spirals loving this 2nd paragraph..... shows where he is putting the blame “I have for some time and rather reluctantly come to believe that the latest changes to benefits to the disabled, and the context in which they’ve been made are, a compromise too far. “While they are defensible in narrow terms, given the continuing deficit, they are not defensible in the way they were placed within a budget that benefits higher earning taxpayers. They should have instead been part of a wider process to engage others in finding the best way to better focus resources on those most in need." I always felt he was a decent man in comparison with other MPs on both sides of the house. His statement when becoming leader of the opposition to be "the quiet man of politics " showed to me that he really didn't understand the job | |||
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"Never saw that coming particularly over the cuts to disability benefits. Be very interesting to see how this spirals this.. given there are meant to be about 20 other tory MP's also unhappy it could be a tricky one.. it will be more than 20... and i bet this never see's the light of day..... george thought he had ids to deflect the blame.... ids said "not me" and bolted for all the thing IDS could have gone for... this is almost noble... i said almost!!!!! "I get what you're saying but would you? If you had been in IDS position? Would you have 'championed' these types of reforms? | |||
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"Never saw that coming particularly over the cuts to disability benefits. Be very interesting to see how this spirals loving this 2nd paragraph..... shows where he is putting the blame “I have for some time and rather reluctantly come to believe that the latest changes to benefits to the disabled, and the context in which they’ve been made are, a compromise too far. “While they are defensible in narrow terms, given the continuing deficit, they are not defensible in the way they were placed within a budget that benefits higher earning taxpayers. They should have instead been part of a wider process to engage others in finding the best way to better focus resources on those most in need." agree totally | |||
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"Never saw that coming particularly over the cuts to disability benefits. Be very interesting to see how this spirals loving this 2nd paragraph..... shows where he is putting the blame “I have for some time and rather reluctantly come to believe that the latest changes to benefits to the disabled, and the context in which they’ve been made are, a compromise too far. “While they are defensible in narrow terms, given the continuing deficit, they are not defensible in the way they were placed within a budget that benefits higher earning taxpayers. They should have instead been part of a wider process to engage others in finding the best way to better focus resources on those most in need. I always felt he was a decent man in comparison with other MPs on both sides of the house. His statement when becoming leader of the opposition to be "the quiet man of politics " showed to me that he really didn't understand the job" Don't buy it! He put his name next to a series of reforms that destroyed people's lives. Vulnerable people. | |||
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"He does realise that since he voluntarily left his post he isn't entitled to claim any benefits for 26 weeks? "And I'm gonna means test his food bank voucher! | |||
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"Obviously this doesn't fit the "nasty Tory" narrative, but IDS has always been at loggerheads with the Treasury because he wanted benefit reforms as a means to end the disincentives for people to work (I'm sure you'll all mock, but that's what he claims) as opposed to the treasury who wanted benefit reforms as a means to save money. So this isn't a surprise in the slightest. "  | |||
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"Never saw that coming particularly over the cuts to disability benefits. Be very interesting to see how this spirals loving this 2nd paragraph..... shows where he is putting the blame “I have for some time and rather reluctantly come to believe that the latest changes to benefits to the disabled, and the context in which they’ve been made are, a compromise too far. “While they are defensible in narrow terms, given the continuing deficit, they are not defensible in the way they were placed within a budget that benefits higher earning taxpayers. They should have instead been part of a wider process to engage others in finding the best way to better focus resources on those most in need. I always felt he was a decent man in comparison with other MPs on both sides of the house. His statement when becoming leader of the opposition to be "the quiet man of politics " showed to me that he really didn't understand the job Don't buy it! He put his name next to a series of reforms that destroyed people's lives. Vulnerable people. " And he stood in the house and cheered at the top of his voice and pumped his fists as they were getting announced. I've never disliked a politician so much since Maggie Thatcher | |||
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"Never saw that coming particularly over the cuts to disability benefits. Be very interesting to see how this spirals loving this 2nd paragraph..... shows where he is putting the blame “I have for some time and rather reluctantly come to believe that the latest changes to benefits to the disabled, and the context in which they’ve been made are, a compromise too far. “While they are defensible in narrow terms, given the continuing deficit, they are not defensible in the way they were placed within a budget that benefits higher earning taxpayers. They should have instead been part of a wider process to engage others in finding the best way to better focus resources on those most in need. I always felt he was a decent man in comparison with other MPs on both sides of the house. His statement when becoming leader of the opposition to be "the quiet man of politics " showed to me that he really didn't understand the job Don't buy it! He put his name next to a series of reforms that destroyed people's lives. Vulnerable people. And he stood in the house and cheered at the top of his voice and pumped his fists as they were getting announced. I've never disliked a politician so much since Maggie Thatcher " That was disgusting to watch. He is a horrible, dispicable man who caused so much dispair to so many. I hope karma hits him hard! | |||
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"Never saw that coming particularly over the cuts to disability benefits. Be very interesting to see how this spirals " Me neither! Given he was the architect that started this ball rolling it's an interesting turn. Three disability charities have sacked Tory MPs from their trustee boards. It gives me hope that the fight back has finally started. | |||
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"Never saw that coming particularly over the cuts to disability benefits. Be very interesting to see how this spirals loving this 2nd paragraph..... shows where he is putting the blame “I have for some time and rather reluctantly come to believe that the latest changes to benefits to the disabled, and the context in which they’ve been made are, a compromise too far. “While they are defensible in narrow terms, given the continuing deficit, they are not defensible in the way they were placed within a budget that benefits higher earning taxpayers. They should have instead been part of a wider process to engage others in finding the best way to better focus resources on those most in need. I always felt he was a decent man in comparison with other MPs on both sides of the house. His statement when becoming leader of the opposition to be "the quiet man of politics " showed to me that he really didn't understand the job Don't buy it! He put his name next to a series of reforms that destroyed people's lives. Vulnerable people. " think frankly Boyle summed it up " keep seeing people described as vulnerable where they used to be called oppressed | |||
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"Never saw that coming particularly over the cuts to disability benefits. Be very interesting to see how this spirals this.. given there are meant to be about 20 other tory MP's also unhappy it could be a tricky one.." Good. I hope all the licenced bandits resign. | |||
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"Never saw that coming particularly over the cuts to disability benefits. Be very interesting to see how this spirals Me neither! Given he was the architect that started this ball rolling it's an interesting turn. Three disability charities have sacked Tory MPs from their trustee boards. It gives me hope that the fight back has finally started. " If only  | |||
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"Never saw that coming particularly over the cuts to disability benefits. Be very interesting to see how this spirals Me neither! Given he was the architect that started this ball rolling it's an interesting turn. Three disability charities have sacked Tory MPs from their trustee boards. It gives me hope that the fight back has finally started. If only "yep if only | |||
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"Never saw that coming particularly over the cuts to disability benefits. Be very interesting to see how this spirals this.. given there are meant to be about 20 other tory MP's also unhappy it could be a tricky one.. it will be more than 20... and i bet this never see's the light of day..... george thought he had ids to deflect the blame.... ids said "not me" and bolted for all the thing IDS could have gone for... this is almost noble... i said almost!!!!! "Or it could be a very very calculated move, showing him to be more human and caring while twisting the knife in Osbourne and to a slightly lesser degree Cameron. Wonder what his motivation could be just 3 months away from the EU referendum | |||
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"Earlier today I was told be a friend that I trust explicitly that they had been told by a well known journalist (with a pro-tory stance) that there was serious disharmony within the tory party that could potentially split the party to the extent an early general election is a possibility. I dismissed it as wishful thinking but I'm begining to think there may be some truth in it. " it has been inevitable since the announcement of the referendum hence bojos very clever positioning he can't loose what ever the result totaly outflanked Gideon in the leadership race post cammororons time as for grayling laughable | |||
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"Earlier today I was told be a friend that I trust explicitly that they had been told by a well known journalist (with a pro-tory stance) that there was serious disharmony within the tory party that could potentially split the party to the extent an early general election is a possibility. I dismissed it as wishful thinking but I'm begining to think there may be some truth in it. " You have made my week | |||
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"Never saw that coming particularly over the cuts to disability benefits. Be very interesting to see how this spirals this.. given there are meant to be about 20 other tory MP's also unhappy it could be a tricky one.. it will be more than 20... and i bet this never see's the light of day..... george thought he had ids to deflect the blame.... ids said "not me" and bolted for all the thing IDS could have gone for... this is almost noble... i said almost!!!!!
Or it could be a very very calculated move, showing him to be more human and caring while twisting the knife in Osbourne and to a slightly lesser degree Cameron. Wonder what his motivation could be just 3 months away from the EU referendum"Absolutely this
He is being lauded on the news as "principled". A less "principled" man I can barely think of. If IDS is the "nice" face of the Tory party, then God help us all. | |||
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"Never saw that coming particularly over the cuts to disability benefits. Be very interesting to see how this spirals loving this 2nd paragraph..... shows where he is putting the blame “I have for some time and rather reluctantly come to believe that the latest changes to benefits to the disabled, and the context in which they’ve been made are, a compromise too far. “While they are defensible in narrow terms, given the continuing deficit, they are not defensible in the way they were placed within a budget that benefits higher earning taxpayers. They should have instead been part of a wider process to engage others in finding the best way to better focus resources on those most in need. I always felt he was a decent man in comparison with other MPs on both sides of the house. His statement when becoming leader of the opposition to be "the quiet man of politics " showed to me that he really didn't understand the job Don't buy it! He put his name next to a series of reforms that destroyed people's lives. Vulnerable people. think frankly Boyle summed it up " keep seeing people described as vulnerable where they used to be called oppressed " Oppressed: subject to harsh and authoritarian authority! Vulnerable: prone to being oppressed. | |||
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"With luck he is just the first rat to to jump ship. " Osborne is the real rat, no way he can squirm his way out of this one now. | |||
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"With luck he is just the first rat to to jump ship. Osborne is the real rat, no way he can squirm his way out of this one now. " He will.....he will. He will either do nothing and blame IDS or postpone any changes citing that he's listening to concerns. Or he might twist the knife in harder in a savage manner and take away money from the disabled as soon as he can. | |||
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"With luck he is just the first rat to to jump ship. Osborne is the real rat, no way he can squirm his way out of this one now. He will.....he will. He will either do nothing and blame IDS or postpone any changes citing that he's listening to concerns. Or he might twist the knife in harder in a savage manner and take away money from the disabled as soon as he can. " He'll wait until after the Hokey Cokey Referendum. | |||
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"Or it could be a very very calculated move, showing him to be more human and caring..." and no doubt back in a few months time.. | |||
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"With luck he is just the first rat to to jump ship. Osborne is the real rat, no way he can squirm his way out of this one now. " Are we agreeing on a politics thread!  | |||
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"..and the soothsayer said unto Caesar, 'beware the IDS of March'... "
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"..and the soothsayer said unto Caesar, 'beware the IDS of March'... " Damn, that's good!  | |||
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"With luck he is just the first rat to to jump ship. Osborne is the real rat, no way he can squirm his way out of this one now. " agree but he's more slimy and slippery than an oil coated eel so will wheedle his way out somehow i reckon.. | |||
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"..and the soothsayer said unto Caesar, 'beware the IDS of March'... " very good.. | |||
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"How Much " £ " Does He Leave With.. hhmmm.. "He hasn't resigned as an MP. | |||
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"Earlier today I was told be a friend that I trust explicitly that they had been told by a well known journalist (with a pro-tory stance) that there was serious disharmony within the tory party that could potentially split the party to the extent an early general election is a possibility. I dismissed it as wishful thinking but I'm begining to think there may be some truth in it. You have made my week "Well I wouldn't hold your breath. | |||
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"Because he resigned, he won't be eligible for Job Seekers for six months. "He qualifies for PIP..  | |||
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"He is a cunt of a man ...snivelling and a right bell end " | |||
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"who is he?? minister of state for work and pensions.... which says to me really unhappy about the cuts to the disability budget... and says to me those cuts at the expense of the cuts made for higher earning tax payers was driven thru by the treasury.... " ......ex minister | |||
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"Why am I not surprised but still disappointed by the very personal attacks on this man? It may have sort of passed some by but when he was ousted as leader of the Opposition he put a huge amount of time and his own money into The Centre for Social Justice (CSJ) (Google it I am not allowed to link it) which was established as an independent think-tank in 2004 to research the causes of poverty, social breakdown and lack of opportunity in certain areas. The CSJ has also won three times at the annual Prospect Magazine Awards: 2008: Best Publication of the Year for Breakthrough Britain - ending the costs of social breakdown 2009: Think Tank of the Year jointly awarded to the CSJ and the IFS 2013: UK Social Policy Think Tank of the Year So this man came to the job in 2010 with a huge personal knowledge, researhed ideas, personal interest in and a passion for making things better for those who society and Governments had previously passed by. His was the department that created the Triple Lock for Pensioners and gave huge freedom for Pensioners when the did retire. Univeral Credit (IMHO) will be seen as one of the most creative and beneficial Welfare developments. I guess its easier to slag someone off rather than know the subject matter .... " | |||
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"Why am I not surprised but still disappointed by the very personal attacks on this man? It may have sort of passed some by but when he was ousted as leader of the Opposition he put a huge amount of time and his own money into The Centre for Social Justice (CSJ) (Google it I am not allowed to link it) which was established as an independent think-tank in 2004 to research the causes of poverty, social breakdown and lack of opportunity in certain areas. The CSJ has also won three times at the annual Prospect Magazine Awards: 2008: Best Publication of the Year for Breakthrough Britain - ending the costs of social breakdown 2009: Think Tank of the Year jointly awarded to the CSJ and the IFS 2013: UK Social Policy Think Tank of the Year So this man came to the job in 2010 with a huge personal knowledge, researhed ideas, personal interest in and a passion for making things better for those who society and Governments had previously passed by. His was the department that created the Triple Lock for Pensioners and gave huge freedom for Pensioners when the did retire. Univeral Credit (IMHO) will be seen as one of the most creative and beneficial Welfare developments. I guess its easier to slag someone off rather than know the subject matter .... "I know the subject matter. I even met the man during that research phase. I'm still happy to criticise the man and his flawed application of the ideas. Just as Gideon failed to meet his targets, IDS's plans have failed to achieve the lofty ideals sold as the reason for the changes. When people actually die on the day they are told they are fit enough to work by the system IDS created then it's fair enough to point out his application of his ideology is and was crap. He didn't resign over any of those things. He's resigned because he's in a battle with Dave and Gideon over Europe. The comments Gideon made about IDS not being up to the job will be quoted somewhere soon no doubt. | |||
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"With luck he is just the first rat to to jump ship. Osborne is the real rat, no way he can squirm his way out of this one now. Are we agreeing on a politics thread! "In the interests of balance NO we aren't | |||
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"Because he resigned, he won't be eligible for Job Seekers for six months.
He qualifies for PIP..
"On the grounds of his mental health?
He gives me the PIP. Same as the rest of his party.
Hopefully they won't take my PIP (Benefit) away. | |||
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"He didn't resign over any of those things. He's resigned because he's in a battle with Dave and Gideon over Europe. " In fairness you didn't use the very personally abusive terms many have used on here. But to say his policies are crap (in total) because you allege the vetting process failed is hardly objective? Why not summarise his very wide areas of responsibility and summarise the good and bad. Do you really believe pensioners have been badly treated? Or the Welfare Cap was a wrong idea? And while you may believe his resignation is part of the wider Anti-EU debate his letter clearly staes (and I quote): "There has been too much emphasis on money-saving exercises and not enough awareness from the Treasury, in particular, that the government's vision of a new welfare-to-work system could not be repeatedly salami-sliced. It is therefore with enormous regret that I have decided to resign." That is a very principled resignation and as you say Osborne is now in a hole. But again lets understand the bigger economic hole the Government is trying to pull the country out of! But thanks for confirming my statement of his efforts out of office are correct. | |||
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" Do you really believe pensioners have been badly treated? Or the Welfare Cap was a wrong idea?" Why focus on those two specifics when IDS is responsible for so much more? Of course he hasn't, in general, badly treated pensioners. They actually have voting power. He's picked exclusively, time and time again, on the most vulnerable and the least able to defend themselves. He's been involved in a prolonged campaign of propaganda against those people to ensure nobody else objects to what he's doing and will support his repeated attacks. Specifically the Fit For Work assessments have been mentioned as seriously flawed and responsible for extreme, unnecessary, stress and suffering. That was part of IDS's "reforms". Bringing in PIP to replace DLA is his too. Universal Credit is a shambles; over budget and overdue by an extent which is so far beyond ridiculous, it's ridiculous. Some of IDS's "reforms" have been truly sick and he has lied continually, refused to answer questions and has used a vast sum of public money to fight FOI requests. In many of those cases he's ultimately lost the fight to keep the information secret because there was no justification beyond protecting his own arse. He's a despicable man and I'd love to see him on the street and suffering, where he has put so many. Unfortunately, his lot always take care of their own and his (wife's) family's fortune will ensure he never suffers. Odious man. Good riddance. | |||
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"Why am I not surprised but still disappointed by the very personal attacks on this man? It may have sort of passed some by but when he was ousted as leader of the Opposition he put a huge amount of time and his own money into The Centre for Social Justice (CSJ) (Google it I am not allowed to link it) which was established as an independent think-tank in 2004 to research the causes of poverty, social breakdown and lack of opportunity in certain areas. The CSJ has also won three times at the annual Prospect Magazine Awards: 2008: Best Publication of the Year for Breakthrough Britain - ending the costs of social breakdown 2009: Think Tank of the Year jointly awarded to the CSJ and the IFS 2013: UK Social Policy Think Tank of the Year So this man came to the job in 2010 with a huge personal knowledge, researhed ideas, personal interest in and a passion for making things better for those who society and Governments had previously passed by. His was the department that created the Triple Lock for Pensioners and gave huge freedom for Pensioners when the did retire. Univeral Credit (IMHO) will be seen as one of the most creative and beneficial Welfare developments. I guess its easier to slag someone off rather than know the subject matter .... "And knowing all this he killed thousands of people. To save a few quid. To give to rich people. I guess it's easier to google some things than comprehend the genuine horror of the impact of this revolting man's time in office. | |||
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" Do you really believe pensioners have been badly treated? Or the Welfare Cap was a wrong idea? Why focus on those two specifics when IDS is responsible for so much more? Of course he hasn't, in general, badly treated pensioners. They actually have voting power. He's picked exclusively, time and time again, on the most vulnerable and the least able to defend themselves. He's been involved in a prolonged campaign of propaganda against those people to ensure nobody else objects to what he's doing and will support his repeated attacks. Specifically the Fit For Work assessments have been mentioned as seriously flawed and responsible for extreme, unnecessary, stress and suffering. That was part of IDS's "reforms". Bringing in PIP to replace DLA is his too. Universal Credit is a shambles; over budget and overdue by an extent which is so far beyond ridiculous, it's ridiculous. Some of IDS's "reforms" have been truly sick and he has lied continually, refused to answer questions and has used a vast sum of public money to fight FOI requests. In many of those cases he's ultimately lost the fight to keep the information secret because there was no justification beyond protecting his own arse. He's a despicable man and I'd love to see him on the street and suffering, where he has put so many. Unfortunately, his lot always take care of their own and his (wife's) family's fortune will ensure he never suffers. Odious man. Good riddance." | |||
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"I hear hes off to the city next !" Let's hope the city is Pyongyang. | |||
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"Unfortunately, since I think this is political strategy, and this man floats to the top like the turd he is, I don't think it's the last we've seen of him in a position to cause misery." Bingo. He's jostled ahead of Osborne nicely for the leadership race eh? | |||
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"Unfortunately, since I think this is political strategy, and this man floats to the top like the turd he is, I don't think it's the last we've seen of him in a position to cause misery. Bingo. He's jostled ahead of Osborne nicely for the leadership race eh? " He didn't do too well the last time he was in charge. (2001-2003) | |||
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"Why am I not surprised but still disappointed by the very personal attacks on this man? It may have sort of passed some by but when he was ousted as leader of the Opposition he put a huge amount of time and his own money into The Centre for Social Justice (CSJ) (Google it I am not allowed to link it) which was established as an independent think-tank in 2004 to research the causes of poverty, social breakdown and lack of opportunity in certain areas. The CSJ has also won three times at the annual Prospect Magazine Awards: 2008: Best Publication of the Year for Breakthrough Britain - ending the costs of social breakdown 2009: Think Tank of the Year jointly awarded to the CSJ and the IFS 2013: UK Social Policy Think Tank of the Year So this man came to the job in 2010 with a huge personal knowledge, researhed ideas, personal interest in and a passion for making things better for those who society and Governments had previously passed by. His was the department that created the Triple Lock for Pensioners and gave huge freedom for Pensioners when the did retire. Univeral Credit (IMHO) will be seen as one of the most creative and beneficial Welfare developments. I guess its easier to slag someone off rather than know the subject matter ....
I know the subject matter. I even met the man during that research phase. I'm still happy to criticise the man and his flawed application of the ideas.
Just as Gideon failed to meet his targets, IDS's plans have failed to achieve the lofty ideals sold as the reason for the changes. When people actually die on the day they are told they are fit enough to work by the system IDS created then it's fair enough to point out his application of his ideology is and was crap.
He didn't resign over any of those things. He's resigned because he's in a battle with Dave and Gideon over Europe.
The comments Gideon made about IDS not being up to the job will be quoted somewhere soon no doubt.
"Agreed. A person's failings and successes are separate. Unless their successes reverse their failings then they are still on their record for criticism . | |||
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"IDS suddenly develops a conscience. After killing all those people. Bless his heart. " The following isn't directed at a single poster, but a frustration at the lack of facts and truth... I always feel when reading these vitriolic responses that it is worth adding in some facts. Firstly, I think it is a reasonably principled thing to do to resign over this; secondly, calling someone a 'cunt' just because you disagree with them just highlights the accusers inadequacies; thirdly, accusing someone of 'killing all those people', shows a tenuous grasp of any of the facts - see Guardian article "The figures revealed that between December 2011 and February 2014, 50,580 recipients of ESA had died. Of this number, 2,380 – or 4.7% – had received a decision that they were fit for work" - .... so lies, damned lies and statistics - clearly every one of these people whether they stayed on ESA or not were someone's loved one. To say that IDS caused 2,380 deaths just leaves me incredulous. Just because this is social media doesn't mean you can make up accusations and fire out half truths and lies as though they are facts! And no I am no fan of IDS. Rant over - genuine debate, with passionate, but honest opinion I can get, but vitriol, bile and misinformation I can't. | |||
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"IDS suddenly develops a conscience. After killing all those people. Bless his heart. The following isn't directed at a single poster, but a frustration at the lack of facts and truth... I always feel when reading these vitriolic responses that it is worth adding in some facts. Firstly, I think it is a reasonably principled thing to do to resign over this; secondly, calling someone a 'cunt' just because you disagree with them just highlights the accusers inadequacies; thirdly, accusing someone of 'killing all those people', shows a tenuous grasp of any of the facts - see Guardian article "The figures revealed that between December 2011 and February 2014, 50,580 recipients of ESA had died. Of this number, 2,380 – or 4.7% – had received a decision that they were fit for work" - .... so lies, damned lies and statistics - clearly every one of these people whether they stayed on ESA or not were someone's loved one. To say that IDS caused 2,380 deaths just leaves me incredulous. Just because this is social media doesn't mean you can make up accusations and fire out half truths and lies as though they are facts! And no I am no fan of IDS. Rant over - genuine debate, with passionate, but honest opinion I can get, but vitriol, bile and misinformation I can't." Unfortunately, these days, politics seems to be more about insulting and denigrating your opponents rather than trying to understand their argument and putting forward a convincing counter argument. This has the major disadvantage of increasing division whilst not actually convincing anyone to change their point of view. | |||
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"IDS suddenly develops a conscience. After killing all those people. Bless his heart. The following isn't directed at a single poster, but a frustration at the lack of facts and truth... I always feel when reading these vitriolic responses that it is worth adding in some facts. Firstly, I think it is a reasonably principled thing to do to resign over this; secondly, calling someone a 'cunt' just because you disagree with them just highlights the accusers inadequacies; thirdly, accusing someone of 'killing all those people', shows a tenuous grasp of any of the facts - see Guardian article "The figures revealed that between December 2011 and February 2014, 50,580 recipients of ESA had died. Of this number, 2,380 – or 4.7% – had received a decision that they were fit for work" - .... so lies, damned lies and statistics - clearly every one of these people whether they stayed on ESA or not were someone's loved one. To say that IDS caused 2,380 deaths just leaves me incredulous. Just because this is social media doesn't mean you can make up accusations and fire out half truths and lies as though they are facts! And no I am no fan of IDS. Rant over - genuine debate, with passionate, but honest opinion I can get, but vitriol, bile and misinformation I can't." Firstly, do you think it likely *anyone* is actually fit for work if they are claiming sickness benefit and then die within a few months of the decision? There's clearly a problem with a system declaring people fit for work when they're so unwell they die within a few weeks or months. Do you not agree that the increased anxiety of this process, and of being told they have to move to JSA and actively look for work full time, might have brought about many of those deaths sooner than they would have occurred otherwise? If you doubt the failure of the Fit to Work tests, just look at how many are taken to tribunal and how many decisions are over-turned. And before you say oh well, if the appeals process is working then it's fine, bear in mind those appeals can take a year or more, can leave an unwell person with no money or forced to look for work when they aren't well enough. Can you even begin to imagine the stress of that? I note you've not mentioned how many suicides the Fit For Work assessment has been linked to. Care to look it up? Whose responsibility would you say those deaths are? I note you've also not mentioned the number of deaths linked to the brutal regime of sanctions IDS brought in for those on JSA. Some of those were suicides. Many were deaths due to malnutrition or the case of the diabetic who died because he couldn't afford food or electricity to run his 'fridge to keep his insulin cool. IDS has long claimed sanctions were the last resort when people refused to look for work. Overwhelming evidence and stories of the situations people have faced in reality, prove that to be untrue. Jobcentre staff actively look for reasons to sanction people. They're even told to be abrasive with people to try to engineer excuses. Sanctions leave people, probably people with no savings and little access to credit, without any money at all for weeks or months at a time. How could that possibly not be detrimental to someone's health? IDS has also long claimed that there are no targets for the number of sanctions Jobcentre staff are expected to hand out. Again, there is a lot of evidence that this is untrue. He's a liar, a heartless, self-interested, greedy bully and he has blood on his hands. | |||
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"Always best to read the facts..... In his resignation letter, Mr Duncan Smith said.... "because of the perilous public finances we inherited from the last Labour administration, difficult cuts have been necessary". "I have found some of these cuts easier to justify than others but aware of the economic situation and determined to be a team player I have accepted their necessity. I am unable to watch passively whilst certain policies are enacted in order to meet the fiscal self imposed restraints that I believe are more and more perceived as distinctly political. "You are aware that I believe the cuts would have been even fairer to younger families and people of working age if we had been willing to reduce some of the benefits given to better-off pensioners but I have attempted to work within the constraints that you and the chancellor set." "I have for some time and rather reluctantly come to believe that the latest changes to benefits to the disabled and the context in which they've been made are a compromise too far. "While they are defensible in narrow terms, given the continuing deficit, they are not defensible in the way they were placed within a Budget that benefits higher earning taxpayers.... "I'd already read it. It's bullshit. | |||
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"Always best to read the facts..... In his resignation letter, Mr Duncan Smith said.... "because of the perilous public finances we inherited from the last Labour administration, difficult cuts have been necessary". "I have found some of these cuts easier to justify than others but aware of the economic situation and determined to be a team player I have accepted their necessity. I am unable to watch passively whilst certain policies are enacted in order to meet the fiscal self imposed restraints that I believe are more and more perceived as distinctly political. "You are aware that I believe the cuts would have been even fairer to younger families and people of working age if we had been willing to reduce some of the benefits given to better-off pensioners but I have attempted to work within the constraints that you and the chancellor set." "I have for some time and rather reluctantly come to believe that the latest changes to benefits to the disabled and the context in which they've been made are a compromise too far. "While they are defensible in narrow terms, given the continuing deficit, they are not defensible in the way they were placed within a Budget that benefits higher earning taxpayers....
I'd already read it. It's bullshit."I think its a pretty reasonable acknowledgment of his changing feelings and don't see that as bad thing...... | |||
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"Always best to read the facts..... In his resignation letter, Mr Duncan Smith said.... "because of the perilous public finances we inherited from the last Labour administration, difficult cuts have been necessary". "I have found some of these cuts easier to justify than others but aware of the economic situation and determined to be a team player I have accepted their necessity. I am unable to watch passively whilst certain policies are enacted in order to meet the fiscal self imposed restraints that I believe are more and more perceived as distinctly political. "You are aware that I believe the cuts would have been even fairer to younger families and people of working age if we had been willing to reduce some of the benefits given to better-off pensioners but I have attempted to work within the constraints that you and the chancellor set." "I have for some time and rather reluctantly come to believe that the latest changes to benefits to the disabled and the context in which they've been made are a compromise too far. "While they are defensible in narrow terms, given the continuing deficit, they are not defensible in the way they were placed within a Budget that benefits higher earning taxpayers....
I'd already read it. It's bullshit.
I think its a pretty reasonable acknowledgment of his changing feelings and don't see that as bad thing......
"It's rubbish. This is a calculated political act intended to benefit him. He's got no conscience about the cuts and his feelings haven't changed. The excuse is to try to drop Gideon in it and come out smelling of roses. Just before Brexit and a leadership contest. The Canary has a good piece on it but I don't think I can link to it. It's probably not considered a main news source. | |||
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"IDS will resurface as a contender in the Tory leadership race when Cameron steps down before the next election. This selfless act is, I suspect, more self-serving than anything; trying to clean up his image after the 'fist pumping' exhibition several budgets prior to this one. But, I'm a natural born cynic. "I agree. In this case I think it's more realism than cynicism. It's all about the referendum and the new leadership contest. | |||
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"IDS will resurface as a contender in the Tory leadership race when Cameron steps down before the next election. This selfless act is, I suspect, more self-serving than anything; trying to clean up his image after the 'fist pumping' exhibition several budgets prior to this one. But, I'm a natural born cynic. "I can't imagine that even in the madhouse of ego driven political ambition he would genuinely think he was a real contender for being selected as tory party leader again...... | |||
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"IDS will resurface as a contender in the Tory leadership race when Cameron steps down before the next election. This selfless act is, I suspect, more self-serving than anything; trying to clean up his image after the 'fist pumping' exhibition several budgets prior to this one. But, I'm a natural born cynic.
I can't imagine that even in the madhouse of ego driven political ambition he would genuinely think he was a real contender for being selected as tory party leader again......
"I'm seeing him backing BoJo and going for the Chancellor's job in all fairness. | |||
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"IDS will resurface as a contender in the Tory leadership race when Cameron steps down before the next election. This selfless act is, I suspect, more self-serving than anything; trying to clean up his image after the 'fist pumping' exhibition several budgets prior to this one. But, I'm a natural born cynic.
I can't imagine that even in the madhouse of ego driven political ambition he would genuinely think he was a real contender for being selected as tory party leader again......
"That won't stop him cosying up to Boris, who may be a contender and also, by some amazing coincidence, also shares his stance on the Europe referendum. He's cut his ties with Dave and Gideon, leaving them with the fallout from the turning tide against the cuts, and making out he's actually a good guy. Now he'll back Boris in the leadership contest and the referendum campaign. Then if Boris is successful, he'll be getting another good job in the Cabinet, where he can stamp on the little people to his heart's content again. Change of heart, my arse. He must be laughing his head off that he's taking people in again. | |||
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"IDS will resurface as a contender in the Tory leadership race when Cameron steps down before the next election. This selfless act is, I suspect, more self-serving than anything; trying to clean up his image after the 'fist pumping' exhibition several budgets prior to this one. But, I'm a natural born cynic.
I can't imagine that even in the madhouse of ego driven political ambition he would genuinely think he was a real contender for being selected as tory party leader again......
I'm seeing him backing BoJo and going for the Chancellor's job in all fairness.
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 And don't try and pin any blame on me for the £billions in over-spend on IT for benefits systems that are a complete shambles - I've already gone, so blame whoever gets the poisoned chalice and takes my job. Any perceived damage that may be lumped onto Osbone is merely coincidence: I'm not trying to harm his chances of taking over after the current monkey leaves. | |||
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"I'm quitting and Friday is a good day to do it - burying bad news and all that. OK, I was found out about not having a degree that I'd listed on my CV, but rest assured that I am not a psychopathic liar. Nor would I take any pleasure from ruthlessly hitting the vulnerable where it hurts - I'm quitting because Osbone is taking the credit for it now and anyway, these disability benefit cuts are likely to be reversed: I have no choice but to pretend that I don't know that. I'll be around, so don't think you've seen the last of me And don't try and pin any blame on me for the £billions in over-spend on IT for benefits systems that are a complete shambles - I've already gone, so blame whoever gets the poisoned chalice and takes my job. Any perceived damage that may be lumped onto Osbone is merely coincidence: I'm not trying to harm his chances of taking over after the current monkey leaves." | |||
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"the content of his letter of resignation just goes to show how spineless he's been over the last 6 years by rolling over and showing his soft white underbelly every time the treasury demanded. to think that this guy has deliberately and consistantly favoured idealogical party harmony over doing the right thing by the people of the country is pretty digusting. the fact that all of a sudden he has managed to grow himself a complete set of vertibrae so close to the imminent implosion of the conservative party over the referendum and subsequent leadership debarcle is quite frankly suspicious to say the least and it is quite clear that he is busy feathering his future nest in the political tree." | |||
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"IDS is the archetypal Tory. Over the last six years in the Cabinet he has been the architect of draconian attacks on the vulnerable. That's what they do - they get elected, compose a Cabinet of Eton educated pricks who give their rich chums a tax break and then to pay for that they start to screw disabled and working people. Does anyone not realise thats what the Tories "do" when in government. Oh I almost forgot - those filthy Tories have doubled, yes DOUBLED the UK National Debt in six years. Our children and further generations of working people will be paying for their ineptitude and clueless mistakes. Why oh why can't pople see that ? By the way " Call me Dave" must be shitting bimself at the thought of a "UK Brexit". Bring it on I say ??" The last bit of IDS resignation letter was a clear parting pop shot at Cameron calling into question Cameron's catchphrase "we are all in it together". IDS questioned are we really all in it together? In other words saying Cameron is full of shit. | |||
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"IDS will resurface as a contender in the Tory leadership race when Cameron steps down before the next election. This selfless act is, I suspect, more self-serving than anything; trying to clean up his image after the 'fist pumping' exhibition several budgets prior to this one. But, I'm a natural born cynic.
I can't imagine that even in the madhouse of ego driven political ambition he would genuinely think he was a real contender for being selected as tory party leader again......
"IDS has ZERO chance of becoming leader of the Tory party and I'm pretty sure he already knows that. I personally think has far more to do with the EU referendum and IDS, a very active BREXITer, wanting to seriously damage Gideon's (the effective leader on the REMAIN group of Conservatives) credibility. Nothing else really makes any sense. | |||
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"Contrary to the majority, I rate IDS highly (aside from the god awful young Tory conference moment which even he considers cringe worthy). He makes a balanced, informed argument and, unlike many has stood by something he feels passionately about at the (short term) risk to his long fought career. He also has historically taken a remarkably sane view towards the British military and national security. Suspect its strategic positioning to side step the Euro debate and position ready for a leadership challenge which will probably be Bonkers Boris and him. But what do I know? Two penny worth duly delivered. " his views on the military may come from the fact that his farther was a battle of brittian pilot | |||
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"the content of his letter of resignation just goes to show how spineless he's been over the last 6 years by rolling over and showing his soft white underbelly every time the treasury demanded. to think that this guy has deliberately and consistantly favoured idealogical party harmony over doing the right thing by the people of the country is pretty digusting. the fact that all of a sudden he has managed to grow himself a complete set of vertibrae so close to the imminent implosion of the conservative party over the referendum and subsequent leadership debarcle is quite frankly suspicious to say the least and it is quite clear that he is busy feathering his future nest in the political tree." pretty much in agreement.. the 'caring compassion' he is attempting to portray now on behalf of some of the most vulnerable people he has subjected to the incompetent, lying ineptitude of some staff at ATOS (their successor doesn't seem to have started too well either) is revolting... | |||
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"I'd really like to vote against what Call Me Dave, Gideon AND IDS want in the referendum. I want them all to bloody lose." I must say, if it's something Cameron and Osborne want, my initial knee jerk reaction is to NOT to want it. I won't make my mind up about the EU referendum till nearer the turn though....although the more they use scare tactics to encourage people to vote in, the more I'm inclined to vote for an exit. *member of the online Rebel Alliance* | |||
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"He is a cunt of a man ...snivelling and a right bell end " | |||
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"He is a cunt of a man ...snivelling and a right bell end " Trouble is, when people refer to people as 'cunts'....I actually really like cunts. Maybe 'dog shit' would be better as I don't know anyone who likes that. Not even dog owners. | |||
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"http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nadine-dorries-slams-iain-duncan-7587749 Tory backbencher publicly attacking him now. doesn't exactly suggest things are particularly harmonious in the backbenches either. I think the party is going to really struggle to keep a lid on all the different factions in the lead up to the exit referendum and regardless of the outcome even more so after it" The Tories always tear themselves up from within, they don't need anyones help. | |||
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"Let's hope the new DWP minister has a heart...he looks young which is great I think we need more younger people in government and it seems he has a bit of real world experience " He doesn't, judging by how he's voted previously. You can see how he's voted on the They Work For You site. | |||
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"Let's hope the new DWP minister has a heart...he looks young which is great I think we need more younger people in government and it seems he has a bit of real world experience He doesn't, judging by how he's voted previously. You can see how he's voted on the They Work For You site." Oh well..I'm just going off by what I saw...ill have a look when I don't mind a bit of depressive reading | |||
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"IDS will resurface as a contender in the Tory leadership race when Cameron steps down before the next election. This selfless act is, I suspect, more self-serving than anything; trying to clean up his image after the 'fist pumping' exhibition several budgets prior to this one. But, I'm a natural born cynic.
I can't imagine that even in the madhouse of ego driven political ambition he would genuinely think he was a real contender for being selected as tory party leader again......
I'm seeing him backing BoJo and going for the Chancellor's job in all fairness.
Ditto."Do you think Boris would be prepared to saddle himself with the baggage of association that would bring.... I think Boris is too crafty to risk his own chances by returning loyalty to someone with IDS's history ,,,,,, Boris will use people to his own advantage but I don't think he's a soft touch and I don't think he'd be above dropping anyone like a stone... .... But hey ,,,,, none of can predict the future ,,,, we can only make our best guess ,,,,,, but all will unravel in the fullness of time,,, But you can all rest assured if I'm right and you are wrong I will sing this song........ I told you so! I told you so! Aye-aye-aye told you so,,,,  | |||
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"Let's hope the new DWP minister has a heart...he looks young which is great I think we need more younger people in government and it seems he has a bit of real world experience " From what I've seen of him in the past on QT you'll be disappointed. | |||
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"Let's hope the new DWP minister has a heart...he looks young which is great I think we need more younger people in government and it seems he has a bit of real world experience " They start out that way honourable and forward thinking then realise t's hopless to have your own ideas because someone else is pulling the strngs.You then resign yourself to be unable to change things for the better make what you can out of it retire nice and early on a fat pension write a book and live out your days somewhere hot and lovely. Bastards Sorry feelng cynical | |||
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"Let's hope the new DWP minister has a heart...he looks young which is great I think we need more younger people in government and it seems he has a bit of real world experience He doesn't, judging by how he's voted previously. You can see how he's voted on the They Work For You site. Oh well..I'm just going off by what I saw...ill have a look when I don't mind a bit of depressive reading " He's pretty much voted as you'd expect for a standard issue Tory. For the bedroom tax, for cuts cuts and more cuts, against anything to help the unemployed/ill/disabled. He voted against allowing same sex marriage. He was also voted against publication of a report into food bank usage and hunger in the UK and against taking action to reduce it. | |||
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"Let's hope the new DWP minister has a heart...he looks young which is great I think we need more younger people in government and it seems he has a bit of real world experience He doesn't, judging by how he's voted previously. You can see how he's voted on the They Work For You site. Oh well..I'm just going off by what I saw...ill have a look when I don't mind a bit of depressive reading " His voting history is pretty depressing reading but he's far from a typical tory, grew up in a council house in a single parent household and if stories are to believed he worked on building sites to finance his degree. But that background doesn;t seem to be reflected in how he votes | |||
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"Let's hope the new DWP minister has a heart...he looks young which is great I think we need more younger people in government and it seems he has a bit of real world experience From what I've seen of him in the past on QT you'll be disappointed. " Ah right like I said I haven't really looked into him, I just went off first impressions | |||
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"Let's hope the new DWP minister has a heart...he looks young which is great I think we need more younger people in government and it seems he has a bit of real world experience He doesn't, judging by how he's voted previously. You can see how he's voted on the They Work For You site. Oh well..I'm just going off by what I saw...ill have a look when I don't mind a bit of depressive reading His voting history is pretty depressing reading but he's far from a typical tory, grew up in a council house in a single parent household and if stories are to believed he worked on building sites to finance his degree. But that background doesn;t seem to be reflected in how he votes " He votes with the party because he wants to succeed. He doesn't have family money to fall back on. | |||
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"Let's hope the new DWP minister has a heart...he looks young which is great I think we need more younger people in government and it seems he has a bit of real world experience He doesn't, judging by how he's voted previously. You can see how he's voted on the They Work For You site. Oh well..I'm just going off by what I saw...ill have a look when I don't mind a bit of depressive reading His voting history is pretty depressing reading but he's far from a typical tory, grew up in a council house in a single parent household and if stories are to believed he worked on building sites to finance his degree. But that background doesn;t seem to be reflected in how he votes He votes with the party because he wants to succeed. He doesn't have family money to fall back on." Sad really then if someone doesn't have the balls to stand up for what they believe I'd make a shit MP | |||
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"They should employ a disabled person to be the DWP person. " Give the job to Alex Brooker. | |||
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"This just in: In the light of IDS' resignation, mental health chiefs have announced this as a ringing endorsement of the government's mental health policies. Speaking from his office at the Royal College for the Nastily Bonkers, Dr Archibald Gluestick commented: "Look, it won't last. Ian will be back to torturing small animals and strangling little old ladies by the end of the month. But, if a cold psychopathic arsehole like him can show a shred of conscience and empathy even for a moment then we're clearly doing something right"" Baroness Stroud who is chief executive of centre for social justice was just on sky news defending IDS resignation. Her attacks seemed to be aimed more towards Osborne and Cameron. The new guy Steven Crabb is just going to be an Osborne yes man, yes sir Mr Osborne, 3 bags full Mr Osborne. | |||
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"Let's hope the new DWP minister has a heart...he looks young which is great I think we need more younger people in government and it seems he has a bit of real world experience He doesn't, judging by how he's voted previously. You can see how he's voted on the They Work For You site. Oh well..I'm just going off by what I saw...ill have a look when I don't mind a bit of depressive reading His voting history is pretty depressing reading but he's far from a typical tory, grew up in a council house in a single parent household and if stories are to believed he worked on building sites to finance his degree. But that background doesn;t seem to be reflected in how he votes " Working class Tories are often the most vindictive. They like to pull the ladder up after them. | |||
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"Contrary to the majority, I rate IDS highly (aside from the god awful young Tory conference moment which even he considers cringe worthy). He makes a balanced, informed argument and, unlike many has stood by something he feels passionately about at the (short term) risk to his long fought career. He also has historically taken a remarkably sane view towards the British military and national security. Suspect its strategic positioning to side step the Euro debate and position ready for a leadership challenge which will probably be Bonkers Boris and him. But what do I know? Two penny worth duly delivered. "
That was an oasis of sanity in the desert of abuse and ignorance being spouted on this Thread. | |||
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"when you see people spouting this: ".....And don't try and pin any blame on me for the £billions in over-spend on IT for benefits systems that are a complete shambles" And they are supposedly making an 'informed' comment on a system that is budgeted to cost £2.4 Bn it makes me wonder if people understand even the word 'informed'. And sarcasm is never 'clever'. In Summer last year it was £600 Million under budget and when people get into 'variable costs' and 'capital write down' they maybe need a basic course in accounting to understand the subjects about which they speak. " Ah I see you're well trained in the art of Tory creative accounting. You'll be telling us next that Gideon is successfully reducing the national debt. | |||
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"Contrary to the majority, I rate IDS highly (aside from the god awful young Tory conference moment which even he considers cringe worthy). He makes a balanced, informed argument and, unlike many has stood by something he feels passionately about at the (short term) risk to his long fought career. He also has historically taken a remarkably sane view towards the British military and national security. Suspect its strategic positioning to side step the Euro debate and position ready for a leadership challenge which will probably be Bonkers Boris and him. But what do I know? Two penny worth duly delivered.
That was an oasis of sanity in the desert of abuse and ignorance being spouted on this Thread."You say sanity, I say gullibility or agenda. The "abuse and ignorance" is more like seeing the foul man for exactly what he is. | |||
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"Let's hope the new DWP minister has a heart...he looks young which is great I think we need more younger people in government and it seems he has a bit of real world experience He doesn't, judging by how he's voted previously. You can see how he's voted on the They Work For You site. Oh well..I'm just going off by what I saw...ill have a look when I don't mind a bit of depressive reading His voting history is pretty depressing reading but he's far from a typical tory, grew up in a council house in a single parent household and if stories are to believed he worked on building sites to finance his degree. But that background doesn;t seem to be reflected in how he votes He votes with the party because he wants to succeed. He doesn't have family money to fall back on." Or maybe that's what he genuinely believes? I don't agree with any of it, but how the hell do I inow his motivations for voting the way he does? | |||
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" And knowing all this he killed thousands of people. To save a few quid. To give to rich people. I guess it's easier to google some things than comprehend the genuine horror of the impact of this revolting man's time in office." That comments absurdity is only exceeded by its ignorance. Where exactly has IDS killed anyone? YOU made the allegation now prove it. And you say he killed people to save money? Prove it. And you say that money was given to rich people? Prove it. And as it happens I didn't need to 'google' anything Old Son. I only mentioned Google because site rules forbid people posting 'inappropriate links'. It is apparent you weren't even capable of doing that and just gobbed off regardless in a very personal way like too many others in the Thread. I know the man's background and what he did in 2004. I also know he didn't have ANY need to take on the job he did in 2010 let alone keep it in 2015 but did so out of conviction for his beliefs, what his charity work told him and what he thought could be achieved for those less well off. So do tell me what is worse. What IDS tried to achieve and get so many people back into work or consigning millions of 'disabled' people to the scrapheap of eternal welfare with zero hope on the altar of fabricating unemployment figures like Labour did? | |||
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"Always best to read the facts..... In his resignation letter, Mr Duncan Smith said.... "because of the perilous public finances we inherited from the last Labour administration, difficult cuts have been necessary". "I have found some of these cuts easier to justify than others but aware of the economic situation and determined to be a team player I have accepted their necessity. I am unable to watch passively whilst certain policies are enacted in order to meet the fiscal self imposed restraints that I believe are more and more perceived as distinctly political. "You are aware that I believe the cuts would have been even fairer to younger families and people of working age if we had been willing to reduce some of the benefits given to better-off pensioners but I have attempted to work within the constraints that you and the chancellor set." "I have for some time and rather reluctantly come to believe that the latest changes to benefits to the disabled and the context in which they've been made are a compromise too far. "While they are defensible in narrow terms, given the continuing deficit, they are not defensible in the way they were placed within a Budget that benefits higher earning taxpayers....
I'd already read it. It's bullshit.
I think its a pretty reasonable acknowledgment of his changing feelings and don't see that as bad thing......
"I think the little Thatcher loving shit may well be running for cover because of the publicity he has been getting from Wear Red and Another Angry Voice on facebook. Seems tory mps dont like being named and shamed when they vote to harm the vulnerable. But then the NAZIs didnt want to take the credit for what they did to the sick and disabled either. | |||
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"Contrary to the majority, I rate IDS highly (aside from the god awful young Tory conference moment which even he considers cringe worthy). He makes a balanced, informed argument and, unlike many has stood by something he feels passionately about at the (short term) risk to his long fought career. He also has historically taken a remarkably sane view towards the British military and national security. Suspect its strategic positioning to side step the Euro debate and position ready for a leadership challenge which will probably be Bonkers Boris and him. But what do I know? Two penny worth duly delivered.
That was an oasis of sanity in the desert of abuse and ignorance being spouted on this Thread."He may be a really nice guy, but he went along with an unpleasant scheme he might have done the right thing, but he agreed with it in the past and people have made their judgment.
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" And you say that money was given to rich people? Prove it. " Did you miss the bit where he resigned because he felt that the latest cuts set against a budget that benefited higher earners was unfair? | |||
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" Ah I see you're well trained in the art of Tory creative accounting. You'll be telling us next that Gideon is successfully reducing the national debt." At least I understand what a set of accounts looks like ... No I will never say the National Debt has been reduced because it hasn't. And funnily enough neither does the Government say that either. But what has been reduced is the Annual Deficit. By over 65% in 6 years. Which of course if you DID understand basic accounting or even mathematics you would know that it is the Deficit that creates the Debt. So the National Debt is getting bigger at a slower rate and the costs of that Debt are falling as the lenders give us the lowest rates possible. But then I guess you subscribe to the Gordon Brown School of Economic Thought that says borrowing isn't actually getting into debt .... Don't try to be 'clever' ... | |||
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"Always best to read the facts..... In his resignation letter, Mr Duncan Smith said.... "because of the perilous public finances we inherited from the last Labour administration, difficult cuts have been necessary". "I have found some of these cuts easier to justify than others but aware of the economic situation and determined to be a team player I have accepted their necessity. I am unable to watch passively whilst certain policies are enacted in order to meet the fiscal self imposed restraints that I believe are more and more perceived as distinctly political. "You are aware that I believe the cuts would have been even fairer to younger families and people of working age if we had been willing to reduce some of the benefits given to better-off pensioners but I have attempted to work within the constraints that you and the chancellor set." "I have for some time and rather reluctantly come to believe that the latest changes to benefits to the disabled and the context in which they've been made are a compromise too far. "While they are defensible in narrow terms, given the continuing deficit, they are not defensible in the way they were placed within a Budget that benefits higher earning taxpayers....
I'd already read it. It's bullshit.
I think its a pretty reasonable acknowledgment of his changing feelings and don't see that as bad thing......
I think the little Thatcher loving shit may well be running for cover because of the publicity he has been getting from Wear Red and Another Angry Voice on facebook. Seems tory mps dont like being named and shamed when they vote to harm the vulnerable. But then the NAZIs didnt want to take the credit for what they did to the sick and disabled either."Well that certainly made me chuckle..... but probably not in the way that acknowledges it's comedic content .... | |||
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"... fabricating unemployment figures like Labour did?" how did you put it? ah yes ... "YOU made the allegation now prove it." | |||
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"At least I understand what a set of accounts looks like ... No I will never say the National Debt has been reduced because it hasn't. And funnily enough neither does the Government say that either. But what has been reduced is the Annual Deficit. By over 65% in 6 years. Which of course if you DID understand basic accounting or even mathematics you would know that it is the Deficit that creates the Debt. So the National Debt is getting bigger at a slower rate and the costs of that Debt are falling as the lenders give us the lowest rates possible. But then I guess you subscribe to the Gordon Brown School of Economic Thought that says borrowing isn't actually getting into debt .... Don't try to be 'clever' ..." Obviously you dont! Although the headline figure is down when you factor in the cuts to infrastructure investment and maintenance you will find that actually the deficit is still rising, only now we have nothing to show for all the money we are borrowing! | |||
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" And you say that money was given to rich people? Prove it. Did you miss the bit where he resigned because he felt that the latest cuts set against a budget that benefited higher earners was unfair? " Errr ... that isn't the same thing. I was challenging the previous writer to prove money had been taken from people IDS had killed and given to the rich. But to your point: To make a budget that reduces an increase in payment to one sector of society and increases the tax allowances to another isn't robbing one to pay another. If I rob your house that is stealing. If your employer changes your annual salary increase from 10% to 5% that isn't stealing. Unless you are a Leftie in which case its a 5% 'cut'..... And since when are the middle income earners around the £45k a year 'rich people'? The rate at which the 40% higher tax would be paid was increased from £43k to £45k so the £2,000 rise in the starting point for 40% tax means a £400 annual saving from 2017. What was also raised was the Personal Allowance – that part of everyone’s pay that is not liable for any income tax – from £11,000 for 2016-17 to £11,500 from 2017. Which is ANOTHER £500 tax saving for the poorest paid on top of the £400 saved by raising the Personal Allowance from £10,600 last year to £11,000 from next month. But we hear NO mention of the £900 combined saving for the poorest in work but we do of course get distortions about how the disabled are paying £500 for the so called 'rich'. | |||
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" Obviously you dont! Although the headline figure is down when you factor in the cuts to infrastructure investment and maintenance you will find that actually the deficit is still rising, only now we have nothing to show for all the money we are borrowing!" Without wishing to be unkind maybe you should go and read up on the subject? The Annual DEFICIT is what the Government borrows to fund its expenditure each year. That has been reducing since 2010 and is now some 65% less than in 2010. The National DEBT is the accumulation of the monies borrowed annually to fund the Annual DEFICIT. And DEBT has increased but at a slower rate. So mentioning infrastructure expenditure is not exactly relevant especially when THAT spending has been substantially increased and funded by a smaller DEFICIT. This is 2 years old but it might help you: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25944653 | |||
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" Ah I see you're well trained in the art of Tory creative accounting. You'll be telling us next that Gideon is successfully reducing the national debt. At least I understand what a set of accounts looks like ... No I will never say the National Debt has been reduced because it hasn't. And funnily enough neither does the Government say that either. But what has been reduced is the Annual Deficit. By over 65% in 6 years. Which of course if you DID understand basic accounting or even mathematics you would know that it is the Deficit that creates the Debt. So the National Debt is getting bigger at a slower rate and the costs of that Debt are falling as the lenders give us the lowest rates possible. But then I guess you subscribe to the Gordon Brown School of Economic Thought that says borrowing isn't actually getting into debt .... Don't try to be 'clever' ..." More Toryspeak. I shouldn't be surprised. I may not be as "clever" as you but I do live in the real world, which apparently you don't. | |||
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"At least I understand what a set of accounts looks like ... No I will never say the National Debt has been reduced because it hasn't. And funnily enough neither does the Government say that either. But what has been reduced is the Annual Deficit. By over 65% in 6 years. Which of course if you DID understand basic accounting or even mathematics you would know that it is the Deficit that creates the Debt. So the National Debt is getting bigger at a slower rate and the costs of that Debt are falling as the lenders give us the lowest rates possible. But then I guess you subscribe to the Gordon Brown School of Economic Thought that says borrowing isn't actually getting into debt .... Don't try to be 'clever' ... Obviously you dont! Although the headline figure is down when you factor in the cuts to infrastructure investment and maintenance you will find that actually the deficit is still rising, only now we have nothing to show for all the money we are borrowing! " Now don't go messing up the propaganda and rhetoric with facts! | |||
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" Obviously you dont! Although the headline figure is down when you factor in the cuts to infrastructure investment and maintenance you will find that actually the deficit is still rising, only now we have nothing to show for all the money we are borrowing! Without wishing to be unkind maybe you should go and read up on the subject? The Annual DEFICIT is what the Government borrows to fund its expenditure each year. That has been reducing since 2010 and is now some 65% less than in 2010. The National DEBT is the accumulation of the monies borrowed annually to fund the Annual DEFICIT. And DEBT has increased but at a slower rate. So mentioning infrastructure expenditure is not exactly relevant especially when THAT spending has been substantially increased and funded by a smaller DEFICIT. This is 2 years old but it might help you: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25944653" I like the fact that you are now shouting to prove to us you are right! | |||
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" I like the fact that you are now shouting to prove to us you are right!" I am amused you can't see a difference between shouting and emphasis for clarity ... Oh wait ... This isn't a serious discussion is it? Its about scoring silly points .. my bad ... | |||
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" Obviously you dont! Although the headline figure is down when you factor in the cuts to infrastructure investment and maintenance you will find that actually the deficit is still rising, only now we have nothing to show for all the money we are borrowing! Without wishing to be unkind maybe you should go and read up on the subject? The Annual DEFICIT is what the Government borrows to fund its expenditure each year. That has been reducing since 2010 and is now some 65% less than in 2010. The National DEBT is the accumulation of the monies borrowed annually to fund the Annual DEFICIT. And DEBT has increased but at a slower rate. So mentioning infrastructure expenditure is not exactly relevant especially when THAT spending has been substantially increased and funded by a smaller DEFICIT. This is 2 years old but it might help you: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25944653 I like the fact that you are now shouting to prove to us you are right! "He's been watching too much parliamentary coverage. S/he who shouts loudest and longest is right. | |||
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" He's been watching too much parliamentary coverage. S/he who shouts loudest and longest is right." I guess its too much to hope you will cut the personal abuse, crap and sarcasm we have had to endure from your last half a dozen posts and actually make a valid point before too long? And maybe with some facts? And if you think THIS is shouting you have led a very sheltered life indeed .... | |||
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"At least I understand what a set of accounts looks like ... No I will never say the National Debt has been reduced because it hasn't. And funnily enough neither does the Government say that either. But what has been reduced is the Annual Deficit. By over 65% in 6 years. Which of course if you DID understand basic accounting or even mathematics you would know that it is the Deficit that creates the Debt. So the National Debt is getting bigger at a slower rate and the costs of that Debt are falling as the lenders give us the lowest rates possible. But then I guess you subscribe to the Gordon Brown School of Economic Thought that says borrowing isn't actually getting into debt .... Don't try to be 'clever' ... To make a budget that reduces an increase in payment to one sector of society and increases the tax allowances to another isn't robbing one to pay another. If I rob your house that is stealing. If your employer changes your annual salary increase from 10% to 5% that isn't stealing. Unless you are a Leftie in which case its a 5% 'cut'..... And since when are the middle income earners around the £45k a year 'rich people'? The rate at which the 40% higher tax would be paid was increased from £43k to £45k so the £2,000 rise in the starting point for 40% tax means a £400 annual saving from 2017. What was also raised was the Personal Allowance – that part of everyone’s pay that is not liable for any income tax – from £11,000 for 2016-17 to £11,500 from 2017. Which is ANOTHER £500 tax saving for the poorest paid on top of the £400 saved by raising the Personal Allowance from £10,600 last year to £11,000 from next month. But we hear NO mention of the £900 combined saving for the poorest in work but we do of course get distortions about how the disabled are paying £500 for the so called 'rich'. Without wishing to be unkind maybe you should go and read up on the subject? The Annual DEFICIT is what the Government borrows to fund its expenditure each year. That has been reducing since 2010 and is now some 65% less than in 2010. The National DEBT is the accumulation of the monies borrowed annually to fund the Annual DEFICIT. And DEBT has increased but at a slower rate. So mentioning infrastructure expenditure is not exactly relevant especially when THAT spending has been substantially increased and funded by a smaller DEFICIT. This is 2 years old but it might help you: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25944653" why do you attempt to hijack the thread with is kind of irrelevant economic cabbage? the facts are immutable. he explains in his own letter that for the last six years he was too spineless to follow his own convictions in favour of appeasing party ideology. | |||
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" I guess its too much to hope you will cut the personal abuse, crap and sarcasm " Sounds pretty much like when you suggest that people shouldn't try and be clever? Because that was neither sarcastic or abusive was it? | |||
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" He's been watching too much parliamentary coverage. S/he who shouts loudest and longest is right. I guess its too much to hope you will cut the personal abuse, crap and sarcasm we have had to endure from your last half a dozen posts and actually make a valid point before too long? And maybe with some facts? And if you think THIS is shouting you have led a very sheltered life indeed .... "I've not made a single personal insult. If you believe I have, report the post. I've said you're gullible or have an agenda but you're proving that yourself. I can tell there's absolutely no point presenting you with facts. You don't want to hear about actual reality or facts and I'm not convinced you can tell fact from opinion or rhetoric. If you don't realise THIS on the Internet is shouting, it's your life experience that is lacking, not mine. | |||
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" I guess its too much to hope you will cut the personal abuse, crap and sarcasm Sounds pretty much like when you suggest that people shouldn't try and be clever? Because that was neither sarcastic or abusive was it?" Or that they can't understand a balance sheet
Fortunately some of us have sufficiently thick skin that we don't have to whine about abuse when people disagree with us. | |||
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"At least I understand what a set of accounts looks like ... No I will never say the National Debt has been reduced because it hasn't. And funnily enough neither does the Government say that either. But what has been reduced is the Annual Deficit. By over 65% in 6 years. Which of course if you DID understand basic accounting or even mathematics you would know that it is the Deficit that creates the Debt. So the National Debt is getting bigger at a slower rate and the costs of that Debt are falling as the lenders give us the lowest rates possible. But then I guess you subscribe to the Gordon Brown School of Economic Thought that says borrowing isn't actually getting into debt .... Don't try to be 'clever' ... To make a budget that reduces an increase in payment to one sector of society and increases the tax allowances to another isn't robbing one to pay another. If I rob your house that is stealing. If your employer changes your annual salary increase from 10% to 5% that isn't stealing. Unless you are a Leftie in which case its a 5% 'cut'..... And since when are the middle income earners around the £45k a year 'rich people'? The rate at which the 40% higher tax would be paid was increased from £43k to £45k so the £2,000 rise in the starting point for 40% tax means a £400 annual saving from 2017. What was also raised was the Personal Allowance – that part of everyone’s pay that is not liable for any income tax – from £11,000 for 2016-17 to £11,500 from 2017. Which is ANOTHER £500 tax saving for the poorest paid on top of the £400 saved by raising the Personal Allowance from £10,600 last year to £11,000 from next month. But we hear NO mention of the £900 combined saving for the poorest in work but we do of course get distortions about how the disabled are paying £500 for the so called 'rich'. Without wishing to be unkind maybe you should go and read up on the subject? The Annual DEFICIT is what the Government borrows to fund its expenditure each year. That has been reducing since 2010 and is now some 65% less than in 2010. The National DEBT is the accumulation of the monies borrowed annually to fund the Annual DEFICIT. And DEBT has increased but at a slower rate. So mentioning infrastructure expenditure is not exactly relevant especially when THAT spending has been substantially increased and funded by a smaller DEFICIT. This is 2 years old but it might help you: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25944653 why do you attempt to hijack the thread with is kind of irrelevant economic cabbage? the facts are immutable. he explains in his own letter that for the last six years he was too spineless to follow his own convictions in favour of appeasing party ideology. " Oh my bad. I was trying to make in informed and factual response to particularly ignorant challenges.
And his resignation letter says nothing of the sort of course ... For 6 years he has been driving through structural change in the links between Welfare and work and the driving societal dynamics that persuade people work is better than Welfare. Given, as he was Secretary of State for Work & Pensions, that we now have the lowest unemployment rates ever recorded, more disabled people are in work than ever before (especially disabled women), more young are employed than ever before and the UK Pensioner now has bigger choices and better guarantees I would suggest on balance he has presided over some major successes. And so had no reasons to resign before. All of which suggests that this latest budget and how it was spun out was something he couldn't take.
And yes the EU debate will be a reason as well but then Cabinet rules say he isn't allowed to mention this in his letter. He is now absolutely free to speak as he wishes from wherever he wishes on Brexit. And that debate will be the better for it.... | |||
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"And his resignation letter says nothing of the sort of course ..." yes it does | |||
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" He's been watching too much parliamentary coverage. S/he who shouts loudest and longest is right. I guess its too much to hope you will cut the personal abuse, crap and sarcasm we have had to endure from your last half a dozen posts and actually make a valid point before too long? And maybe with some facts? And if you think THIS is shouting you have led a very sheltered life indeed ....
I've not made a single personal insult. If you believe I have, report the post.
I've said you're gullible or have an agenda but you're proving that yourself.
I can tell there's absolutely no point presenting you with facts. You don't want to hear about actual reality or facts and I'm not convinced you can tell fact from opinion or rhetoric.
If you don't realise THIS on the Internet is shouting, it's your life experience that is lacking, not mine."It would be good to see you even trying to present us with some factual responses. All we have heard is your highly emotive and exaggerated opinions on IDS and others when they show the slightest disagreement in those opinions. You are entitled to your opinions as are we all. But facts are not a matter of choice. So go on try us with some FACTS .. Oops 'shouting again'... | |||
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" And his resignation letter says nothing of the sort of course ... yes it does " Do we now replay the Mr Argument sketch from Monty Python? "Oh no it doesn't ..." | |||
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"Without wishing to be unkind maybe you should go and read up on the subject? The Annual DEFICIT is what the Government borrows to fund its expenditure each year. That has been reducing since 2010 and is now some 65% less than in 2010. The National DEBT is the accumulation of the monies borrowed annually to fund the Annual DEFICIT. And DEBT has increased but at a slower rate. So mentioning infrastructure expenditure is not exactly relevant especially when THAT spending has been substantially increased and funded by a smaller DEFICIT. This is 2 years old but it might help you: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25944653" I fully understand the difference between the DEFICIT and the NATIONAL DEBT and I can use capitals as well. However you seem to be missing the point. The national debt has been doubled by this Tory governments economic policies over 6 years and what we are now borrowing annually (the deficit) is not being used to finance capital projects it is being used to service the national debt. As for your comments about Gordon Brown I will point out that it was the banking crisis caused by corrupt American banks selling worthless bonds to corrupt unregulated bankers in London that caused the world recession and that it may have happened under a Labour government it was Thatcher who deregulated the British financial markets. Therefore like it or not the crash of 2008 was caused by tories and tories are now strangling our recovery by taking money out of the economy. It really is quite simple: 10-1=9 its called subtraction or in economics its called contraction and causes markets to shrink, this leads to deflation and recession. That is what Osborne has been doing for 6 years. And funnily enough every year he tells us the same thing... We are not doing as well as he thought we would be and we need more of the same! I seem to remember another tory saying similar as she fucked us all in the 80's or maybe you dont remember TINA as Thatcher raped the country! | |||
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"Too many long posts in 'ere " true ... you're better off sitting in the sun and doves with a guiness for the rest of the afternoon | |||
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" He's been watching too much parliamentary coverage. S/he who shouts loudest and longest is right. I guess its too much to hope you will cut the personal abuse, crap and sarcasm we have had to endure from your last half a dozen posts and actually make a valid point before too long? And maybe with some facts? And if you think THIS is shouting you have led a very sheltered life indeed ....
I've not made a single personal insult. If you believe I have, report the post.
I've said you're gullible or have an agenda but you're proving that yourself.
I can tell there's absolutely no point presenting you with facts. You don't want to hear about actual reality or facts and I'm not convinced you can tell fact from opinion or rhetoric.
If you don't realise THIS on the Internet is shouting, it's your life experience that is lacking, not mine." | |||
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"I cba with the intricacies of the debate but it strikes me that this is a lesson from Machiavelli's The Prince. The Prince (ie Obbo) will use a brutal deputy to enforce his will and terrify the populace... And then steps in, cuts off the deputy's head. Objectives achieved: 1/ a cowed populace 2/ a grateful to the Prince for 'freeing' them from the 'tyranny' of the deputy Politics." If Osborne is the so called Prince in all this, and IDS the brutal deputy then the Prince has failed. He hasn't cut off the deputy's head because the deputy resigned, so now the blame is being placed on the Prince. The populace are not greatful to the Prince because the deputy is saying the Prince was forcing his agenda onto the deputy and making the deputy out to be the fall guy and the scapegoat. | |||
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" Do we now replay the Mr Argument sketch from Monty Python? " in so far as we've all walked into room 12 instead of 12A and you seem to be playing the part of the bloke who gives abuse | |||
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" The national debt has been doubled by this Tory governments economic policies over 6 years and what we are now borrowing annually (the deficit) is not being used to finance capital projects it is being used to service the national debt." Of course debt will increase until we return to an Annual Surplus. Something the last Labour Government inherited, maintained for 2 years while they kept to Tory spending plans and then happily blew away year on year by creating huge deficits even before the 2009 crash. I will happily give you the numbers but they are a matter of record. To say what we are borrowing annually is just to repay debt is not actually true. But even if it was in 2010 we were repaying some £45 Bn annual interest when the Deficit was some £153.5 Bn. This year it was some £57 Bn when the Deficit is some £75 Bn. So not a massive increase in interest payments but a huge change in % terms as the deficit comes down especially given Labour inherited debt repayments of some £29 Bn in 1997 (amounts monetised at 2015 values). But what all this proves is the Nation is and will be paying for the costs incurred by Labour over 13 years (not just in 2009) for many years and only by returning to a Surplus will the costs start to reduce. Just as untrue is your statement the Tories are not investing in Infrastructure. What is Crossrail then? And the railway electrification project? HS2? And road schemes all over the place? And only this week we have upgrades to the A66 and A69, HS3, and possibly a road tunnel under the Pennines. Osborne even called in Labour's Adonis to chair the Infrastructure Commission to get priorities right. And the IMF disagrees with you as well. It says George Osborne's infrastructure plans are a 'win-win' for UK. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11920011/George-Osbornes-infrastructure-plans-are-a-win-win-for-UK-says-IMF.html | |||
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" Do we now replay the Mr Argument sketch from Monty Python? in so far as we've all walked into room 12 instead of 12A and you seem to be playing the part of the bloke who gives abuse "Nicely twisted.... | |||
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" The national debt has been doubled by this Tory governments economic policies over 6 years and what we are now borrowing annually (the deficit) is not being used to finance capital projects it is being used to service the national debt. Of course debt will increase until we return to an Annual Surplus. Something the last Labour Government inherited, maintained for 2 years while they kept to Tory spending plans and then happily blew away year on year by creating huge deficits even before the 2009 crash. I will happily give you the numbers but they are a matter of record. To say what we are borrowing annually is just to repay debt is not actually true. But even if it was in 2010 we were repaying some £45 Bn annual interest when the Deficit was some £153.5 Bn. This year it was some £57 Bn when the Deficit is some £75 Bn. So not a massive increase in interest payments but a huge change in % terms as the deficit comes down especially given Labour inherited debt repayments of some £29 Bn in 1997 (amounts monetised at 2015 values). But what all this proves is the Nation is and will be paying for the costs incurred by Labour over 13 years (not just in 2009) for many years and only by returning to a Surplus will the costs start to reduce. Just as untrue is your statement the Tories are not investing in Infrastructure. What is Crossrail then? And the railway electrification project? HS2? And road schemes all over the place? And only this week we have upgrades to the A66 and A69, HS3, and possibly a road tunnel under the Pennines. Osborne even called in Labour's Adonis to chair the Infrastructure Commission to get priorities right. And the IMF disagrees with you as well. It says George Osborne's infrastructure plans are a 'win-win' for UK. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11920011/George-Osbornes-infrastructure-plans-are-a-win-win-for-UK-says-IMF.html" really not sure what flooding the thread with this kind of economic clap-trap has to do with IDS being too spineless to stand by his convictions in favour of conservative ideaology just to keep his grip on a cbinet seat | |||
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"Just as untrue is your statement the Tories are not investing in Infrastructure. What is Crossrail then? And the railway electrification project? HS2? And road schemes all over the place? And only this week we have upgrades to the A66 and A69, HS3, and possibly a road tunnel under the Pennines. Osborne even called in Labour's Adonis to chair the Infrastructure Commission to get priorities right. And the IMF disagrees with you as well. It says George Osborne's infrastructure plans are a 'win-win' for UK. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11920011/George-Osbornes-infrastructure-plans-are-a-win-win-for-UK-says-IMF.html" Funny! I hear about lots of money (going to consultants) for schemes that will start some time in the future and Osborne taking credit for projects that were started by a Labour government and are now being completed. But I dont know of any non emergency Government funded infrastructure project started by this government in the last 6 years. | |||
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"Well I'd hate to steal the last word on this subject......." don't worry... there's no danger of that happening | |||
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