FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > has feminism killed the gentleman

has feminism killed the gentleman

By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Well what do you think? Is it sexist to stand when a lady enters the room, or is it old fashioned good manners, is it patronizing to offer a lady your seat on a train, or a noble act of chivalry.

Is it acceptable to treat someone differently because of their gender, does it make you a outdated dinosaur, with values that have no place in the modern world, or does it show that you were bought up with manners and respect.

Your thoughts please

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Someone i know wrote a really good article on this. I will find it xx

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Someone i know wrote a really good article on this. I will find it xx"

But what do YOU think?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I don't consider it patronising of a man to offer me a seat, but neither do I expect to be offered one - I'm no less able-bodied currently than anyone else (I would thank him politely and decline unless I felt ill)

What's wrong with simple courtesy and consideration, where anyone regardless of gender can offer their seat to someone else who appears to be in greater need due to age, disability, pregnancy, or carrying a small child, again, regardless of gender.

Why does everything have to turn into a gender war?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

When I was in my 20's I was a nightmare feminist - frowned if a door was opened for me etc. With age - I've found I rather like it. B opens the car door for me, will always hold a door open etc. Sometimes, as one sex or the other, we get arsey about things just because we think it's what we should do. I'll hold a door open whether it's a male or female going through. I'll give my seat up for someone who looks like they need it more than me. It's manners rather than a gender related thing.

Sarah

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Well what do you think? Is it sexist to stand when a lady enters the room, or is it old fashioned good manners, is it patronizing to offer a lady your seat on a train, or a noble act of chivalry.

Your thoughts please"

I do those things regardless of gender, I consider it good manners.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Good manners, courtesy, respect are all things that should be applauded. Non of those actions should ever be dictated by gender though

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Well what do you think? Is it sexist to stand when a lady enters the room, or is it old fashioned good manners, is it patronizing to offer a lady your seat on a train, or a noble act of chivalry.

Your thoughts please"

I don't find it patronising at all... Call me old fashioned but I love it...

I have had random men walk me home before or to my car because I failed to have an umbrella and so they held theirs for me...

Saying that I don't expect it... But it's nice when it happens...

Like above... I won't accept a seat unless I really needed one (started a fight between two randoms due to this before - so maybe I'll just accept the seat this time lol)

Standing when entering the room though? That's a little extreme and if someone did that I'd feel uncomfortable.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I think that if you believe the answer is YES then you either don't understand feminism, or don't understand what it is to be a gentleman.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"When I was in my 20's I was a nightmare feminist - frowned if a door was opened for me etc. With age - I've found I rather like it. B opens the car door for me, will always hold a door open etc. Sometimes, as one sex or the other, we get arsey about things just because we think it's what we should do. I'll hold a door open whether it's a male or female going through. I'll give my seat up for someone who looks like they need it more than me. It's manners rather than a gender related thing.

Sarah

Sarah "

I'm specifically talking about if I'm on a train, and a perfectly able bodied woman git on and had to stand, I personaly feel uncomfortable sitting while she stands, its how I was bought up, and so its part of who I am, but sometimes I have offered my seat and been looked at like I've slapped her arse

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It's nice to have manners and use them.

It is sexist to treat people differently based on gender, and that includes with manners.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Someone i know wrote a really good article on this. I will find it xx

But what do YOU think?"

Im not gonna bother as just realised everyone on fab will know who i am

I think chivalry is just good manners and opening doors etc is not limited to doing these for women.

I think women who says its sexist are crazy. But i dont think it alone is to blame. I think some manners have been forgotten in modern society.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I can only answer for myself, I'd take the seat! As I said though, my view has altered with age. I'm all mellow nowadays.

Sarah

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I think that if you believe the answer is YES then you either don't understand feminism, or don't understand what it is to be a gentleman."

I'm trying to ascertain what the general consensus is among the population of the fab forums, and maybe start an interesting debate about old fashioned values in the modern world

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Feminists" nowaday are weirdly selective on what they decide to support or not... as the defense of human right through the world.

Surely as the appelation suggests feminism should support the right of women, whatever it is, however most of the time it supports an ideology rather than what the right of women.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Rather than what women want* sorry

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If you read up on what feminists have actually done, you realise it's a hate movement. The prime example that sticks with me is a student tried doing an event to raise awareness for men's mental health, he was probably depressed and the suicide rate is way higher for men. But the feminists for "equality" shut it down as it was "sexist" and the guy commit suicide himself. Says it all to me tbh

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

""Feminists" nowaday are weirdly selective on what they decide to support or not... as the defense of human right through the world.

Surely as the appelation suggests feminism should support the right of women, whatever it is, however most of the time it supports an ideology rather than what the right of women.

Can I have an example? I have no idea what you mean.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"If you read up on what feminists have actually done, you realise it's a hate movement. The prime example that sticks with me is a student tried doing an event to raise awareness for men's mental health, he was probably depressed and the suicide rate is way higher for men. But the feminists for "equality" shut it down as it was "sexist" and the guy commit suicide himself. Says it all to me tbh "

That's not true feminism then. It's idiots on high horses.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Its not a hate movement at all but i think thats for another thread/debate. I would agree sometimes it goes to far and men and women are different sometimes its ok to admit that xx

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

""Feminists" nowaday are weirdly selective on what they decide to support or not... as the defense of human right through the world.

Surely as the appelation suggests feminism should support the right of women, whatever it is, however most of the time it supports an ideology rather than what the right of women.

Can I have an example? I have no idea what you mean."

The fact that they care more about trivial things like manspreading, rather than how in the Middle East women get stoned for being raped. Stuff like that

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

For the record though the modern gentlemen hasnt died out and if anything i would say its on its way back xx

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I think that if you believe the answer is YES then you either don't understand feminism, or don't understand what it is to be a gentleman.

I'm trying to ascertain what the general consensus is among the population of the fab forums, and maybe start an interesting debate about old fashioned values in the modern world"

Ah if that's your case you should remove feminists from the point.

I don't think it's anything to do with feminists, I think it's to do with people not being taught how to respect others or show consideration to some. Females and males hold doors open for others, it's just manners. I think the other old traditional norms would be responded to differently, not someone refusing to accept it, but more embarrassment, as it isn't often seen.

Times change and many things change with it, like community spirit

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Some of the old ways still work, but if you don't know the woman, it is now bad manners to stand when she enters the room. Doors should be held for either gender, and your sword arm should always be free.

The trickiest one is offering your seat, best to stick to gender nutral if they need it more than you, or offer your lap to the cute ones

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If you think feminists are angry man-haters with hairy armpits then you're sorely mistaken. I can already tell this thread will be a who's who of people to avoid for me/ people who should definitely avoid me!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

""Feminists" nowaday are weirdly selective on what they decide to support or not... as the defense of human right through the world.

Surely as the appelation suggests feminism should support the right of women, whatever it is, however most of the time it supports an ideology rather than what the right of women.

Can I have an example? I have no idea what you mean."

Well you'll see some women calling themselve "feminists" defending the right of some women of dressing the way they want, which is fair enough, nonetheless when some women want to wear an headscarf she is considered as oppressed and backward.

Double standard.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

""Feminists" nowaday are weirdly selective on what they decide to support or not... as the defense of human right through the world.

Surely as the appelation suggests feminism should support the right of women, whatever it is, however most of the time it supports an ideology rather than what the right of women.

Can I have an example? I have no idea what you mean.

The fact that they care more about trivial things like manspreading, rather than how in the Middle East women get stoned for being raped. Stuff like that "

We all should care about that, regardless of gender.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I don't consider it patronising of a man to offer me a seat, but neither do I expect to be offered one - I'm no less able-bodied currently than anyone else (I would thank him politely and decline unless I felt ill)

Why does everything have to turn into a gender war?"

I completley agree

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

""Feminists" nowaday are weirdly selective on what they decide to support or not... as the defense of human right through the world.

Surely as the appelation suggests feminism should support the right of women, whatever it is, however most of the time it supports an ideology rather than what the right of women.

Can I have an example? I have no idea what you mean.

Double standard."

I will state that she is seen as oppressed or empowered. Oppressed would be if she was wearing it due to the patriarchy within the culture, empowered would mean she was wearing it through choice regardless of the patriarchy

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I open doors etc. I remember once I opened a door for a lady who was going into a cafe behind me. She looked at me saying " I'm perfectly capable of opening a door ! " I replied that it wasn't because she was female but because I had been taught manners from an early age. She was so impressed she bought me a coffee , that evening I cooked her dinner...and breakfast. Manners make man.

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By *piritsonfabCouple over a year ago

Nottingham

I'd accept the seat, smile and nod a thank you if a gentleman stood when I entered the room, held my chair, took my coat and so on - not because I want or need to but to acknowledge his manners and courtesy - to do otherwise would be rude in itself.

It's more noticeable to me if others (men and women both) DONT do courteous things like hold doors for each other.

Manners aren't dead yet. I hope .

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By *amatCouple over a year ago

all over

I think many women don't know what they want and they live their lives and values to what they think society wants them to be.

There are a lot of women and I include myself that portray idealism in their professional lives as this is expected however it is a totally different story in their private lives. Hence fab for me ! The one place I can be who I want.

Sam

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

""Feminists" nowaday are weirdly selective on what they decide to support or not... as the defense of human right through the world.

Surely as the appelation suggests feminism should support the right of women, whatever it is, however most of the time it supports an ideology rather than what the right of women.

Can I have an example? I have no idea what you mean.

Double standard.

Totally agree, but most of the time they don't even bothered asking those women though.

The perfect example is the FEMEN group over the europ. They called themselves feminist yet you need to be topless for them to help you defending your right.

Not all the feminists are like that though.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I think the problem is feminism is used to back up too many debates. When what they are standing for isnt feminism.

I dont want to be called a feminist these days because the meaning has been warped.

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By *iss AdventureWoman over a year ago

Wonderland

Im at risk of becoming totally besotted with you kinkybutler, although there'd be no need to give up your seat for me, I'll sit on your knee so neither of us need stand

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By *ELLONS AND CREAMWoman over a year ago

stourbridge area

We should all treat other with respect. ...but I do think it is good for a man to be courteous

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Well what do you think? Is it sexist to stand when a lady enters the room, or is it old fashioned good manners, is it patronizing to offer a lady your seat on a train, or a noble act of chivalry.

Your thoughts please"

I always hold a door open for a lady, then check out her bum as she goes through

Honestly though I would always offer a lady a seat, hold the door take a coat etc. Just the way I was brought up to treat people kindly and manners cost nothing. I appreciate that some ladies will find offense in these actions but the vast majority see it as it is intended and appreciate the gesture.

Chivalry is dead yet

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I think the problem is feminism is used to back up too many debates. When what they are standing for isnt feminism.

I dont want to be called a feminist these days because the meaning has been warped."

Totally agree.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I prefer gentlemen

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

OP what a gentleman .... How lovely you are Sir.

My opinion .... Men and women are equal YET different ....

Simple Example

2 plus 2 equals 4

And

3 plus 1 equals 4

Equal YET different

As a women who has broken many ceilings - done many things ONLY men did and down to even being the first female buyer in Australia for the worlds largest supermarket chain and at the time of interview ..... "if you make a mess of this we will NEVER hire a female again" "we are taking a big chance on you being a woman" - so you get the picture ..... And my thoughts I'm doing this for every future women and girl....

I'm known for my feistiness and ability to get things done..... Thus strong willed... I adore a man opening a door, offering me a seat and even standing when I enter a room and equally I will serve him tea with his favourite biscuits, fluff his pillow on the sofa or bathe him and sponge his back ...... I like old fashioned manners if that's what they are called .... For me it's all just rather fun, lovely and good communication X

Mwah

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"If you think feminists are angry man-haters with hairy armpits then you're sorely mistaken. I can already tell this thread will be a who's who of people to avoid for me/ people who should definitely avoid me!"

What do I think a feminist is? Hmm, firstly I'm going to address your point about hairy armpit man hater, that's not a feminist, that person is no better than a man who believes a woman's place is in the kitchen,

I believe a feminist is a woman who lives her life on her own terms, but isn't afraid that a man in her life will in some how diminish her independence.

A feminist excels in her endeavours, not compete with others, no matter the gender.

A feminist celebrates womanhood, without degrading masculinity

A feminist treats men as equals, not as potential rapists or sperm donors

A feminist would never dismiss the poor treatment of a man by a woman by saying, "they have been doing that to us for years, its about time they got a taste if their own medicine" (true story)

That's what I see a feminist is, a woman concerned with equality, not obsessed by the things that men do

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I think its feminized the gentleman

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I believe a feminist is a woman who lives her life on her own terms, but isn't afraid that a man in her life will in some how diminish her independence.

A feminist excels in her endeavours, not compete with others, no matter the gender.

A feminist celebrates womanhood, without degrading masculinity

A feminist treats men as equals, not as potential rapists or sperm donors

A feminist would never dismiss the poor treatment of a man by a woman by saying, "they have been doing that to us for years, its about time they got a taste if their own medicine" (true story)

That's what I see a feminist is, a woman concerned with equality, not obsessed by the things that men do "

potential rapists or sperm donors hahahaha

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I think the problem is feminism is used to back up too many debates. When what they are standing for isnt feminism.

I dont want to be called a feminist these days because the meaning has been warped."

Yep I agree. There are extremists in everything unfortunately.

Sarah

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I believe a feminist is a woman who lives her life on her own terms, but isn't afraid that a man in her life will in some how diminish her independence.

A feminist excels in her endeavours, not compete with others, no matter the gender.

A feminist celebrates womanhood, without degrading masculinity

A feminist treats men as equals, not as potential rapists or sperm donors

A feminist would never dismiss the poor treatment of a man by a woman by saying, "they have been doing that to us for years, its about time they got a taste if their own medicine" (true story)

That's what I see a feminist is, a woman concerned with equality, not obsessed by the things that men do "

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I believe a feminist is a woman who lives her life on her own terms, but isn't afraid that a man in her life will in some how diminish her independence.

A feminist excels in her endeavours, not compete with others, no matter the gender.

A feminist celebrates womanhood, without degrading masculinity

A feminist treats men as equals, not as potential rapists or sperm donors

A feminist would never dismiss the poor treatment of a man by a woman by saying, "they have been doing that to us for years, its about time they got a taste if their own medicine" (true story)

That's what I see a feminist is, a woman concerned with equality, not obsessed by the things that men do

But how many feminists are like that? Feminists came up with "toxic masculinity" and don't like the "not all men" argument. Feminists have said that men who suffer for false rape accusations deserve it for the actions of other men. Again, this is only some feminists, mainly the radfems "
thats the point they arent feminists they are claiming to be so they can try and add some creedance to their crap hoping it qill come up polished. That is not feminism thats sexism at its worst

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I believe a feminist is a woman who lives her life on her own terms, but isn't afraid that a man in her life will in some how diminish her independence.

A feminist excels in her endeavours, not compete with others, no matter the gender.

A feminist celebrates womanhood, without degrading masculinity

A feminist treats men as equals, not as potential rapists or sperm donors

A feminist would never dismiss the poor treatment of a man by a woman by saying, "they have been doing that to us for years, its about time they got a taste if their own medicine" (true story)

That's what I see a feminist is, a woman concerned with equality, not obsessed by the things that men do "

I 100% agree with you

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I think the problem is feminism is used to back up too many debates. When what they are standing for isnt feminism.

I dont want to be called a feminist these days because the meaning has been warped.

Yep I agree. There are extremists in everything unfortunately.

Sarah "

Exactly, its the extremist element that is causing the confusion

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I think the problem is feminism is used to back up too many debates. When what they are standing for isnt feminism.

I dont want to be called a feminist these days because the meaning has been warped.

Yep I agree. There are extremists in everything unfortunately.

Sarah

Exactly, its the extremist element that is causing the confusion "

Its the extremists that get the publicity and thats why people think thats what feminism is theae days

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I think the problem is feminism is used to back up too many debates. When what they are standing for isnt feminism.

I dont want to be called a feminist these days because the meaning has been warped.

Yep I agree. There are extremists in everything unfortunately.

Sarah

Exactly, its the extremist element that is causing the confusion

Its the extremists that get the publicity and thats why people think thats what feminism is theae days

So why don't the "good" feminists do anything about it?

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

So would anyone agree, that its time for men to claim back the right to be a gentleman, and time for women to claim back feminist values, and for both to live side by side in a world of mutual respect?

Or am I just being an idealist?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Well what do you think? Is it sexist to stand when a lady enters the room, or is it old fashioned good manners, is it patronizing to offer a lady your seat on a train, or a noble act of chivalry.

Your thoughts please"
I offer my seat not just to women but older guys, families etc sometimes people turn you down ,that doesn't affect me I see it not as just being a gentleman but also as a social opportunity

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I think the problem is feminism is used to back up too many debates. When what they are standing for isnt feminism.

I dont want to be called a feminist these days because the meaning has been warped.

Yep I agree. There are extremists in everything unfortunately.

Sarah

Exactly, its the extremist element that is causing the confusion

Its the extremists that get the publicity and thats why people think thats what feminism is theae days

So why don't the "good" feminists do anything about it?"

They do. They don't put up with any type of inequality. They know that making things worse for men means making things worse for themselves (ie. everyone). We often have sons, brothers, and male friends and don't want their lives making worse.

I'm part of a fb group that discusses some of the more extreme issues also.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Like SSSassy. I'm a woman in a man's world work wise. I'm also the breadwinner at home (our decision - it just works better this way).

I wouldn't ever want men to stop being gentleman. Some acts are for me a little outdated - don't dare order my meal for me, but please do pour the wine.

I don't think feminism has threatened this, however feminism is interpretation. It still boils down to respect. That goes both ways. If a man opens a door, gives up a chair (without motive we shall assume) then where's the harm in accepting?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I think the problem is feminism is used to back up too many debates. When what they are standing for isnt feminism.

I dont want to be called a feminist these days because the meaning has been warped.

Yep I agree. There are extremists in everything unfortunately.

Sarah

Exactly, its the extremist element that is causing the confusion

Its the extremists that get the publicity and thats why people think thats what feminism is theae days

So why don't the "good" feminists do anything about it?

I'm part of a fb group that discusses some of the more extreme issues also."

But people never see the good feminists, just Laci Green and Anita Sarkeesian shouting patriarchy!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So would anyone agree, that its time for men to claim back the right to be a gentleman, and time for women to claim back feminist values, and for both to live side by side in a world of mutual respect?

Or am I just being an idealist? "

Equally yes. Men are entitled to manners also. Just not on here.

As a FLR enthusiast i feel slightly hypocritical talking about it also because i've been in FLR where i had most of the control but was given that, but i do ultimately believe that men deserve the same treatment as women and that women shouldn't be presumed to be incapable just for being female nor that men are incapable of doing 'women' stuff.

I think presuming people have roles based on gender is very harmful also. So being a gentlemen to women might mean that some women demand all men to be gentlemen when men also have the right not be gentlemen or submit to a female if they don't want to.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I think the problem is feminism is used to back up too many debates. When what they are standing for isnt feminism.

I dont want to be called a feminist these days because the meaning has been warped.

Yep I agree. There are extremists in everything unfortunately.

Sarah

Exactly, its the extremist element that is causing the confusion

Its the extremists that get the publicity and thats why people think thats what feminism is theae days

So why don't the "good" feminists do anything about it?

I'm part of a fb group that discusses some of the more extreme issues also.

But people never see the good feminists, just Laci Green and Anita Sarkeesian shouting patriarchy!"

Laci Green (used to anyway) make(s) some good points and is good at getting them across. Although i've not really bothered listening to her for a couple of years so she might have changed.

I've even seen some 'feminazi's making good points but they're ranty and shouting and angry and that's all anyone sees. A lot of people don't hear the message, just the ranting.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I think the problem is feminism is used to back up too many debates. When what they are standing for isnt feminism.

I dont want to be called a feminist these days because the meaning has been warped.

Yep I agree. There are extremists in everything unfortunately.

Sarah

Exactly, its the extremist element that is causing the confusion

Its the extremists that get the publicity and thats why people think thats what feminism is theae days

So why don't the "good" feminists do anything about it?

I'm part of a fb group that discusses some of the more extreme issues also.

But people never see the good feminists, just Laci Green and Anita Sarkeesian shouting patriarchy!"

I think the tide is turning, and there is now a want and a need for a feminist "leader" who speaks for all women, and too all women.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

So with that in mind, would you condemn another guy for continuing to sit and not offer a female a seat?

look forward to the answer

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I think the problem is feminism is used to back up too many debates. When what they are standing for isnt feminism.

I dont want to be called a feminist these days because the meaning has been warped.

Yep I agree. There are extremists in everything unfortunately.

Sarah

Exactly, its the extremist element that is causing the confusion

Its the extremists that get the publicity and thats why people think thats what feminism is theae days

So why don't the "good" feminists do anything about it?

I'm part of a fb group that discusses some of the more extreme issues also.

But people never see the good feminists, just Laci Green and Anita Sarkeesian shouting patriarchy!

I think the tide is turning, and there is now a want and a need for a feminist "leader" who speaks for all women, and too all women."

The vast majority of women aren't feminists, I can't remember the actual figure.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

So with that in mind, would you condemn another guy for continuing to sit and not offer a female a seat?

look forward to the answer"

No absolutely not, its my way, not everyone else's way. It's just who I am

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I think the problem is feminism is used to back up too many debates. When what they are standing for isnt feminism.

I dont want to be called a feminist these days because the meaning has been warped.

Yep I agree. There are extremists in everything unfortunately.

Sarah

Exactly, its the extremist element that is causing the confusion

Its the extremists that get the publicity and thats why people think thats what feminism is theae days

So why don't the "good" feminists do anything about it?

I'm part of a fb group that discusses some of the more extreme issues also.

But people never see the good feminists, just Laci Green and Anita Sarkeesian shouting patriarchy!

I think the tide is turning, and there is now a want and a need for a feminist "leader" who speaks for all women, and too all women."

So in your opinion, all women want and need a feminist leader?

Pmsl

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

So with that in mind, would you condemn another guy for continuing to sit and not offer a female a seat?

look forward to the answer

No absolutely not, its my way, not everyone else's way. It's just who I am"

that's cool, the answer I was hoping for as although all males may look fit and healthy, there may be an underlying illness or disability which prevents

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I think the problem is feminism is used to back up too many debates. When what they are standing for isnt feminism.

I dont want to be called a feminist these days because the meaning has been warped.

Yep I agree. There are extremists in everything unfortunately.

Sarah

Exactly, its the extremist element that is causing the confusion

Its the extremists that get the publicity and thats why people think thats what feminism is theae days

So why don't the "good" feminists do anything about it?

I'm part of a fb group that discusses some of the more extreme issues also.

But people never see the good feminists, just Laci Green and Anita Sarkeesian shouting patriarchy!

I think the tide is turning, and there is now a want and a need for a feminist "leader" who speaks for all women, and too all women.

So in your opinion, all women want and need a feminist leader?

Pmsl

Lol I see how that sounded now, I could have worded that a lot better, I just wish I had the education to do so, well spotted

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By *ee VianteWoman over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

"I think the problem is feminism is used to back up too many debates. When what they are standing for isnt feminism.

I dont want to be called a feminist these days because the meaning has been warped.

Yep I agree. There are extremists in everything unfortunately.

Sarah

Exactly, its the extremist element that is causing the confusion

Its the extremists that get the publicity and thats why people think thats what feminism is theae days

So why don't the "good" feminists do anything about it?

I'm part of a fb group that discusses some of the more extreme issues also.

But people never see the good feminists, just Laci Green and Anita Sarkeesian shouting patriarchy!

I think the tide is turning, and there is now a want and a need for a feminist "leader" who speaks for all women, and too all women."

How could that be possible when women are individuals? How could one person speak for all women?

Could one man speak for you and all other men on any and every subject?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I think presuming people have roles based on gender is very harmful also. So being a gentlemen to women might mean that some women demand all men to be gentlemen when men also have the right not be gentlemen or submit to a female if they don't want to."

Wish there was some sort of 'amen my sista' emoji right now, so well said :love: It's just as damaging to say that "men should be men", and I'm equally as likely to go on a rant about that!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"How could that be possible when women are individuals? How could one person speak for all women?

Could one man speak for you and all other men on any and every subject?"

I understand the idea behind identity politics and the like, but women are half the population. The differences among us are as vast as the differences among men.

I always hear these stories of women telling off men for offering them a seat on the train. I've had men refuse, absolutely refuse, to walk through a door because I (a woman) was holding it open for them. Do those men speak for all men?

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I think the problem is feminism is used to back up too many debates. When what they are standing for isnt feminism.

I dont want to be called a feminist these days because the meaning has been warped.

Yep I agree. There are extremists in everything unfortunately.

Sarah

Exactly, its the extremist element that is causing the confusion

Its the extremists that get the publicity and thats why people think thats what feminism is theae days

So why don't the "good" feminists do anything about it?

I'm part of a fb group that discusses some of the more extreme issues also.

But people never see the good feminists, just Laci Green and Anita Sarkeesian shouting patriarchy!

I think the tide is turning, and there is now a want and a need for a feminist "leader" who speaks for all women, and too all women.

How could that be possible when women are individuals? How could one person speak for all women?

Could one man speak for you and all other men on any and every subject?"

See the post above yours, I had a duffus moment, where I didn't type what was in my head, I typed something else instead, and I'm not clear on what I was even trying to say, I think my morning cuppa has worn off

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Wish there was some sort of 'amen my sista' emoji right now, so well said :love: It's just as damaging to say that "men should be men", and I'm equally as likely to go on a rant about that!"

I've had to point out to so many misogynists that men have also advanced thanks to feminism it's kind of a natural thing now to stick up for men when talking about it.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Right, time for a nice fresh country walk to enjoy the fresh air and scenery and well as the keep fit part, enjoy your chat on fab every one

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Wish there was some sort of 'amen my sista' emoji right now, so well said :love: It's just as damaging to say that "men should be men", and I'm equally as likely to go on a rant about that!

I've had to point out to so many misogynists that men have also advanced thanks to feminism it's kind of a natural thing now to stick up for men when talking about it. "

Do third wave feminists stick up for men though? Again I'd refer back to the student who killed himself thanks to the feminists

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By *artytwoCouple over a year ago

Wolverhampton

So should the gentleman offer a seat or open a door for a TV/TS?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Wish there was some sort of 'amen my sista' emoji right now, so well said :love: It's just as damaging to say that "men should be men", and I'm equally as likely to go on a rant about that!

I've had to point out to so many misogynists that men have also advanced thanks to feminism it's kind of a natural thing now to stick up for men when talking about it.

Do third wave feminists stick up for men though? Again I'd refer back to the student who killed himself thanks to the feminists "
again i point put people who call themseleves feminists that arent

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So should the gentleman offer a seat or open a door for a TV/TS?"

People should open doors for people and should offer seats where needed. Gender and sexuality shouldnt come into it. Its just manners xx

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Wish there was some sort of 'amen my sista' emoji right now, so well said :love: It's just as damaging to say that "men should be men", and I'm equally as likely to go on a rant about that!

I've had to point out to so many misogynists that men have also advanced thanks to feminism it's kind of a natural thing now to stick up for men when talking about it.

Do third wave feminists stick up for men though? Again I'd refer back to the student who killed himself thanks to the feminists again i point put people who call themseleves feminists that arent"

But they are feminists. When Emma Watson said some men are better feminists, and Shailene Woodley said she still wasn't a feminist, you should have seen how these good feminists reacted.

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By *jj46Man over a year ago

rhyl

"So should the gentleman offer a seat or open a door for a TV/TS?

People should open doors for people and should offer seats where needed. Gender and sexuality shouldnt come into it. Its just manners xx"
My mother taught me well as a kid with a few clips around the ear I still open the door for anyone give up my seat

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"So should the gentleman offer a seat or open a door for a TV/TS?"

Yes, transgender people have to literally fight to be recognized as their CORRECT gender, I for one, don't want to add to that fight so I recognise all transgender as their outward appearance would suggest

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By *ath_Neil_bifunCouple over a year ago

near cardiff

"I think the problem is feminism is used to back up too many debates. When what they are standing for isnt feminism.

I dont want to be called a feminist these days because the meaning has been warped.

Yep I agree. There are extremists in everything unfortunately.

Sarah

Exactly, its the extremist element that is causing the confusion

Its the extremists that get the publicity and thats why people think thats what feminism is theae days

I always, ALWAYS see more people saying 'feminists are extremists' than I see extremist feminists. Not saying there aren't extremist feminists, just thst they are vastly outnumbered by people who misrepresent basic, common feminism.

I'm a feminist. I meet lots of feminists like me, have never met a feminazi, but the conversation always focuses on a fictional side of feminism. It's not above criticism, but keep it real. Extremists? Femen got their tits out. Compare it to an isis extremist.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So should the gentleman offer a seat or open a door for a TV/TS?"

Why not?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Wish there was some sort of 'amen my sista' emoji right now, so well said :love: It's just as damaging to say that "men should be men", and I'm equally as likely to go on a rant about that!

I've had to point out to so many misogynists that men have also advanced thanks to feminism it's kind of a natural thing now to stick up for men when talking about it.

Do third wave feminists stick up for men though? Again I'd refer back to the student who killed himself thanks to the feminists"

I do understand that someone depressed can be further harmed by a society that encourages men to be 'strong', 'not cry', 'to be 'men'', and that a lot of problems men have are supposed to be hidden and not discussed for fear of ridicule.

I don't believe in gender structures. I do believe that there are still gender structures to this day. 3rd wave feminists are trying to end that.

Not sure how a college refusing to hold a mens day portrays all 3rd wave feminists?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I love all the old fashioned values, itis a very rare thing to come across these days, but when you do, its a wonderful thing.

I wouldnt say its all about flowers, door opening for the opposite sex...its manners in general, it seems to be fading away.

I love to help ppl, be kind, hold doors open, reach things off shelves if ppl cannot reach.

For me,no act of kindness is ever wasted, and it makes me feel good.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I think the problem is feminism is used to back up too many debates. When what they are standing for isnt feminism.

I dont want to be called a feminist these days because the meaning has been warped.

Yep I agree. There are extremists in everything unfortunately.

Sarah

Exactly, its the extremist element that is causing the confusion

Its the extremists that get the publicity and thats why people think thats what feminism is theae days

I just read that, and then re read it replacing the words feminist and feminism, with the words Muslim and Islam, it still makes sense, just saying

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Chivalry from men in the way op describes is nice and ive had an umbrella held over me by a bloke before.

And because I have manners I also try to do the same for others.

Consideration/manners for others is on a rapid decline, I've noticed since my childhood.. it's every man/woman for him/herself and stuff anyone else around you.. and that's sad.

I sometimes wish I was born in an earlier era.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I love all the old fashioned values, itis a very rare thing to come across these days, but when you do, its a wonderful thing.

I wouldnt say its all about flowers, door opening for the opposite sex...its manners in general, it seems to be fading away.

I love to help ppl, be kind, hold doors open, reach things off shelves if ppl cannot reach.

For me,no act of kindness is ever wasted, and it makes me feel good."

I'm glad I'm not the only person to notice. I often talk about this with my parents.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Wish there was some sort of 'amen my sista' emoji right now, so well said :love: It's just as damaging to say that "men should be men", and I'm equally as likely to go on a rant about that!

I've had to point out to so many misogynists that men have also advanced thanks to feminism it's kind of a natural thing now to stick up for men when talking about it.

Do third wave feminists stick up for men though? Again I'd refer back to the student who killed himself thanks to the feminists

I don't believe in gender structures. I do believe that there are still gender structures to this day. 3rd wave feminists are trying to end that.

Not sure how a college refusing to hold a mens day portrays all 3rd wave feminists?

Like I said before, it was "toxic masculinity" that pushed him to take his life. He'd put so much into it and the feminists, wanting everything to be about themselves, got it cancelled calling it sexist. That's what was too much for him. What's wrong with gender structures? Some men and women fit into it perfectly. Society teaches men not to cry? A quick google search and you'll find pictures of feminists drinking from mugs labelled "male tears". Bit hypocritical don't you think? For me that pretty much sums up feminism but I respect your views

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Wish there was some sort of 'amen my sista' emoji right now, so well said :love: It's just as damaging to say that "men should be men", and I'm equally as likely to go on a rant about that!

I've had to point out to so many misogynists that men have also advanced thanks to feminism it's kind of a natural thing now to stick up for men when talking about it.

Do third wave feminists stick up for men though? Again I'd refer back to the student who killed himself thanks to the feminists

I don't believe in gender structures. I do believe that there are still gender structures to this day. 3rd wave feminists are trying to end that.

Not sure how a college refusing to hold a mens day portrays all 3rd wave feminists?

*wasnt toxic masculinity. My bad. I should proof read lol

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Radical feminists are the worst of all. I prefer to be treated exactly as an equal to men. That means if you're not going to stand up when a man also walks away from a table, don't stand up for me.

I hold the door open for anyone, not just a certain gender.

Have manners and respect for both genders, not just one or the other. We all deserve to be treated the same.

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By *isscheekychopsWoman over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

I open a door for a man what does that make me?

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By *oward1978Man over a year ago

Rotherham

I like to try and employ good manners and respect at all times. I also like to think of myself as a gentleman. That's just the way I am. A persons gender alone has no bearing on how I would act towards them in this regard.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

In this world of equal rights which I strongly agree with. I think it is only right for women too open their legs..sorry doors for me.

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By *icentiousCouple over a year ago

Up on them there hills

This one isn't dead...

I do admit my social values flex with context. Gentleman in the dining room, not so gentlemanly in the bedroom and neutral in the boardroom. However this flexibility does cause me problems, I struggle around the juxtaposition of people who have tight tunnelled opinions who need to stereotype, generalise humanity and usually live in a world of model operators of necessity. But hey, that's life.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Wish there was some sort of 'amen my sista' emoji right now, so well said :love: It's just as damaging to say that "men should be men", and I'm equally as likely to go on a rant about that!

I've had to point out to so many misogynists that men have also advanced thanks to feminism it's kind of a natural thing now to stick up for men when talking about it.

Do third wave feminists stick up for men though? Again I'd refer back to the student who killed himself thanks to the feminists

I don't believe in gender structures. I do believe that there are still gender structures to this day. 3rd wave feminists are trying to end that.

Not sure how a college refusing to hold a mens day portrays all 3rd wave feminists?

*wasnt toxic masculinity. My bad. I should proof read lol"

But not everyone fits into gender structures, and when society then expects them to there is the problem.

You've got to understand that ogliarchy pushed this onto us. In fact i suspect that those in power want us to be emotionless zombies but that's a whole other debate.

I do like how liberal we are as a country when it comes to this stuff and most people are allowed to go about as the want to and not as what they're 'expected' to.

The male tears thing isn't about suicide, it's taking the piss out of men who cry that feminism is unfair and how men lose their rights when women gain equality (which i will agree that men do lose the upper hand when women gain equality but they don't lose their rights, they now have to compete against women as well as other men that's all). It is childish and there are better ways to combat misogynists than with stupid, demeaning slogans.

I'm not sure why they didn't hold a mens day, have had a google and found stuff but still not sure why not tbh.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So should the gentleman offer a seat or open a door for a TV/TS?"
yes a gentleman is a man with manners and they include all people

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I open a door for a man what does that make me?

Polite and well mannered but its not quite my point.

Many men my age and slightly older were bought up to with certain etiquette surrounding their behavior around women, but sometimes we are made to feel awkward, in social situations where the values we were taught would be appropriate, are dismissed as sexist, and made to feel out if touch in modern society

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Wish there was some sort of 'amen my sista' emoji right now, so well said :love: It's just as damaging to say that "men should be men", and I'm equally as likely to go on a rant about that!

I've had to point out to so many misogynists that men have also advanced thanks to feminism it's kind of a natural thing now to stick up for men when talking about it.

Do third wave feminists stick up for men though? Again I'd refer back to the student who killed himself thanks to the feminists

I don't believe in gender structures. I do believe that there are still gender structures to this day. 3rd wave feminists are trying to end that.

Not sure how a college refusing to hold a mens day portrays all 3rd wave feminists?

*wasnt toxic masculinity. My bad. I should proof read lol

But not everyone fits into gender structures, and when society then expects them to there is the problem.

You've got to understand that ogliarchy pushed this onto us. In fact i suspect that those in power want us to be emotionless zombies but that's a whole other debate.

I do like how liberal we are as a country when it comes to this stuff and most people are allowed to go about as the want to and not as what they're 'expected' to.

I'm not sure why they didn't hold a mens day, have had a google and found stuff but still not sure why not tbh."

I do agree that those in power want to pacify us, with entertainment etc. With the male tears it's the fact that feminists don't care, especially third wave feminists. I think Milo Yiannopoulus would be arguing this better than me lol. My question is what rights don't women in western countries have?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

And they didn't hold the men's day because of the feminists. No need to pretend otherwise

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Wish there was some sort of 'amen my sista' emoji right now, so well said :love: It's just as damaging to say that "men should be men", and I'm equally as likely to go on a rant about that!

I've had to point out to so many misogynists that men have also advanced thanks to feminism it's kind of a natural thing now to stick up for men when talking about it.

Do third wave feminists stick up for men though? Again I'd refer back to the student who killed himself thanks to the feminists again i point put people who call themseleves feminists that arent

But they are feminists. When Emma Watson said some men are better feminists, and Shailene Woodley said she still wasn't a feminist, you should have seen how these good feminists reacted."

Ok let me put it this way i can call myself a feminist and actually not be holding up femnism and its true values. I can go around diluting it and using it for other purposes and take it to an edtreme women against men.

I dont believe that is what feminism is about. Its an idealogy for equality across sexes. Lets be honest how many extremeists claim they are acting according to islam teachings? Most of them and we recognise that as bollocks...at least i hope.

As for good feminists doing something about it. As far as im aware no owns the feminist idea they can only call those people and groups out. Feminism isnt a person or a group of people iys a belief in equality they share.

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By *iss AdventureWoman over a year ago

Wonderland

There is a distinction between being well mannered and being a gentleman. Don't ask me to define it because it's about more than just actions.

I once knew a man who on paper was a total gentleman but his efforts and actions came across as slimy because of his manner.

A gentleman has something extra, that little bit of je ne sais quoi

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"And they didn't hold the men's day because of the feminists. No need to pretend otherwise "

Because a group of people 'claiming' to be feminists. There is a womans day and a mens day should be celebrated too xx

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Wish there was some sort of 'amen my sista' emoji right now, so well said :love: It's just as damaging to say that "men should be men", and I'm equally as likely to go on a rant about that!

I've had to point out to so many misogynists that men have also advanced thanks to feminism it's kind of a natural thing now to stick up for men when talking about it.

Do third wave feminists stick up for men though? Again I'd refer back to the student who killed himself thanks to the feminists again i point put people who call themseleves feminists that arent

But they are feminists. When Emma Watson said some men are better feminists, and Shailene Woodley said she still wasn't a feminist, you should have seen how these good feminists reacted.

Those feminists who you say aren't real feminists, probably would say the same about you. You can talk about the ideology all day long, but you're being judged by the actions of your group. What have you done to improve the treatment of women in the world? And the Islamic terrorists are actually just obeying what their book says, but that's a whole other debate I won't get into

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"There is a distinction between being well mannered and being a gentleman. Don't ask me to define it because it's about more than just actions.

I once knew a man who on paper was a total gentleman but his efforts and actions came across as slimy because of his manner.

A gentleman has something extra, that little bit of je ne sais quoi"

That je ne sais quoi that you speak of, its a beard, definitely a beard, oh and a hat

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"And they didn't hold the men's day because of the feminists. No need to pretend otherwise

Because a group of people 'claiming' to be feminists. There is a womans day and a mens day should be celebrated too xx"

They're feminists. Can't claim "not all feminists" if you don't accept "not all men"

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By *iss AdventureWoman over a year ago

Wonderland

"There is a distinction between being well mannered and being a gentleman. Don't ask me to define it because it's about more than just actions.

I once knew a man who on paper was a total gentleman but his efforts and actions came across as slimy because of his manner.

A gentleman has something extra, that little bit of je ne sais quoi

That je ne sais quoi that you speak of, its a beard, definitely a beard, oh and a hat

You know what, I think you might have a point there

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Or am I just being an idealist? "

And admirable, yet romantically utopic sentiment. However, only when until, the human proclivities which rely on the instinctive self-preservation, are overridden by altruistic intellect, will realise such utopia. The incidence of a global, pandemic mutation that quashes instinct will encapsulate the vision, so succinctly expressed by the song Imagine.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Wish there was some sort of 'amen my sista' emoji right now, so well said :love: It's just as damaging to say that "men should be men", and I'm equally as likely to go on a rant about that!

I've had to point out to so many misogynists that men have also advanced thanks to feminism it's kind of a natural thing now to stick up for men when talking about it.

Do third wave feminists stick up for men though? Again I'd refer back to the student who killed himself thanks to the feminists again i point put people who call themseleves feminists that arent

But they are feminists. When Emma Watson said some men are better feminists, and Shailene Woodley said she still wasn't a feminist, you should have seen how these good feminists reacted.

Yes they would and good cause i wouldnt want to be identified as belonging to their warped view of feminism.

If you read my earlier comments ive actually said i wouldnt want to be called a feminist in this day and age.

As for terrorist are they? Id like to see that page of the qouran thanks because thats a load of shit. But like you say thats another debate.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Or am I just being an idealist?

So basically

When we stop being dicks to each other

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By *iss AdventureWoman over a year ago

Wonderland

Thank you for putting that in normal words LOL

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Wish there was some sort of 'amen my sista' emoji right now, so well said :love: It's just as damaging to say that "men should be men", and I'm equally as likely to go on a rant about that!

I've had to point out to so many misogynists that men have also advanced thanks to feminism it's kind of a natural thing now to stick up for men when talking about it.

Do third wave feminists stick up for men though? Again I'd refer back to the student who killed himself thanks to the feminists again i point put people who call themseleves feminists that arent

But they are feminists. When Emma Watson said some men are better feminists, and Shailene Woodley said she still wasn't a feminist, you should have seen how these good feminists reacted.

Yes they would and good cause i wouldnt want to be identified as belonging to their warped view of feminism.

If you read my earlier comments ive actually said i wouldnt want to be called a feminist in this day and age.

As for terrorist are they? Id like to see that page of the qouran thanks because thats a load of shit. But like you say thats another debate.

That's fair enough, it wouldn't take long to find quotes from the Quran about how non Muslims should be treated(cough Cologne cough), but again, I think I've hijacked this thread enough