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Getting the VOTE ?
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Watched the "big question" prog on sunday and apparantly prisoners intend to sue the government if not allowed the vote whilst inside. 
I know what MY thoughts on this are 
How about you ? |
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By *ne ShotMan
over a year ago
Manchester |
if they break the law why should they be allowed to make it, surely they realise when they get there bird they give up there human rights as part of there punishments, im sure theres loads of soilicitors rubbing there hands in glee waiting to get on the make on humanitarium grounds of course. |
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By *ne ShotMan
over a year ago
Manchester |
"They are taking advantage of european laws ..i think ?
Its a bloody disgrace that murderers and the like have the right so many people fought and died for "
Yep right up there with labour signing up to the european constitution and handing over most of our laws in a penstroke to Brussels which thousands died for in 2nd world war to protect our freedoms. Its Brussels who state prisoners should get the vote,and due to labour theres fook all really we can do about it . |
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"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x6gqO2Amhs
(only link I could find on YouTube; I am nothing to do with the BNP)"
OMG is that a new flag pole for Buckingham Palace. Madge would love her flag flying on that!  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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".........,and due to labour theres fook all really we can do about it . "
Even if that were true, which it isn't, nobody remembers who's at fault for something happening - they only remember on whose watch the legislation went through. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Well from the bit i saw , they were talking about lifers getting it etc. ?
Which ever way. it shouldnt happen "
This is one of the few occasions I actually feel sorry for Cameron. He's fucked which ever way he jumps.
If he approves votes for prisoners he'll get it in the next from the Broadmoor wing of the Tory Party and the electorate and if he holds out against votes for prisoners he'll get it in the pocket from the courts and in the ballot box from the electorate. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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".........,and due to labour theres fook all really we can do about it .
Even if that were true, which it isn't, nobody remembers who's at fault for something happening - they only remember on whose watch the legislation went through."
so whose watch was it that it went through on? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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A convicted felon that has a determinate sentence should be permitted to vote as he or she will soon be regaining their liberty and living under the same conditions that affect the rest of us, so they should be able to vote on those conditions.
Lifers and those convicted of the most henious of crimes with no chance of parole should not be permitted to vote as part of their punishment.
Not all felons are inside because they are hardened criminals, and some find themselves there through matters of circumstance, some are even wrongly convicted.
It is an antiquated law some 160 years old and has no place on the staute books that govern us today. If the govt don't wish to scrap it, they should at least modernise it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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".........,and due to labour theres fook all really we can do about it .
Even if that were true, which it isn't, nobody remembers who's at fault for something happening - they only remember on whose watch the legislation went through.
so whose watch was it that it went through on?"
IF it goes through it'll be during this parliament - that'd be the parliament with Cameron supposedly in charge  |
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By *ne ShotMan
over a year ago
Manchester |
".........,and due to labour theres fook all really we can do about it .
Even if that were true, which it isn't, nobody remembers who's at fault for something happening - they only remember on whose watch the legislation went through."
was new labours tony blaie started it when he had illusions of being mr president of europe talk about putting his own agenda over his own countries. Then it fell flat on its arse when the dutch dint play ball,so the eurocrats just changed the name of it used the word ratified and pushed a federal europe on em again , which i believe gordon brown and david milliband signed up for without the british peopele having any say on the matter at all.
So yeah if your saying tony blair Gordon Brown and David Millband were never members of New labour you could be right. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Well i for one will be emailing the kin prime minister and will tell him exactly what i think and he can stick that in his pipe and smoke it.
I know it probably wont make a bit of difference but ill feel much better doing it.   |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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".........,and due to labour theres fook all really we can do about it .
Even if that were true, which it isn't, nobody remembers who's at fault for something happening - they only remember on whose watch the legislation went through.
so whose watch was it that it went through on?
IF it goes through it'll be during this parliament - that'd be the parliament with Cameron supposedly in charge "
i was meaning the legislation that allowed the european court to impose directives upon us? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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".........,and due to labour theres fook all really we can do about it .
Even if that were true, which it isn't, nobody remembers who's at fault for something happening - they only remember on whose watch the legislation went through.
was new labours tony blaie started it when he had illusions of being mr president of europe talk about putting his own agenda over his own countries. Then it fell flat on its arse when the dutch dint play ball,so the eurocrats just changed the name of it used the word ratified and pushed a federal europe on em again , which i believe gordon brown and david milliband signed up for without the british peopele having any say on the matter at all.
So yeah if your saying tony blair Gordon Brown and David Millband were never members of New labour you could be right. "
You're missing the point ....... again.
Most people don't care about the minutae of the who and why and when something was passed into European Law.
All that concerns them is the headlines in the UK press the day the UK parliament gives some UK prisoners the vote. However is PM that day will get it in the neck - regardless. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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".........,and due to labour theres fook all really we can do about it .
Even if that were true, which it isn't, nobody remembers who's at fault for something happening - they only remember on whose watch the legislation went through.
so whose watch was it that it went through on?
IF it goes through it'll be during this parliament - that'd be the parliament with Cameron supposedly in charge
i was meaning the legislation that allowed the european court to impose directives upon us?"
I realised that but it makes no difference. What happens in the European Union is of little interest to Brits till the UK govt has to effect the appropriate legislation.
Whoever passes that law gets the blame. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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".........,and due to labour theres fook all really we can do about it .
Even if that were true, which it isn't, nobody remembers who's at fault for something happening - they only remember on whose watch the legislation went through.
was new labours tony blaie started it when he had illusions of being mr president of europe talk about putting his own agenda over his own countries. Then it fell flat on its arse when the dutch dint play ball,so the eurocrats just changed the name of it used the word ratified and pushed a federal europe on em again , which i believe gordon brown and david milliband signed up for without the british peopele having any say on the matter at all.
So yeah if your saying tony blair Gordon Brown and David Millband were never members of New labour you could be right.
You're missing the point ....... again.
Most people don't care about the minutae of the who and why and when something was passed into European Law.
All that concerns them is the headlines in the UK press the day the UK parliament gives some UK prisoners the vote. However is PM that day will get it in the neck - regardless."
i care who was the one who signed us up to have this pish forced upon us rather than the poor sod who has to accept it......the present government is on a hiding to nothing and will have no option but to have whatever directive the european court force upon us.......if i remember correctly the prime minister who was in charge and whom i find responsible for this debacle is the same prime minister whose wife stood to make a kin fortune from it all!!!! at last count their property portfolio was mightily impressive......not bad for a so called reformed socialist  |
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By *ne ShotMan
over a year ago
Manchester |
"A convicted felon that has a determinate sentence should be permitted to vote as he or she will soon be regaining their liberty and living under the same conditions that affect the rest of us, so they should be able to vote on those conditions.
Lifers and those convicted of the most henious of crimes with no chance of parole should not be permitted to vote as part of their punishment.
Not all felons are inside because they are hardened criminals, and some find themselves there through matters of circumstance, some are even wrongly convicted.
It is an antiquated law some 160 years old and has no place on the staute books that govern us today. If the govt don't wish to scrap it, they should at least modernise it."
Maybe its all just proactive planning for the future for political parties to get there votes from there friends for when they get sent down for fiddling there exspenses or even allowed back in to politics. u might think what im saying is mad but didnt gordon brown bring back mendleson even though he had not once but twice been found to be as they would say dishonest as we would say a criminal....fook Brown even give him a peerage. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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".........,and due to labour theres fook all really we can do about it .
Even if that were true, which it isn't, nobody remembers who's at fault for something happening - they only remember on whose watch the legislation went through.
so whose watch was it that it went through on?
IF it goes through it'll be during this parliament - that'd be the parliament with Cameron supposedly in charge
i was meaning the legislation that allowed the european court to impose directives upon us?
I realised that but it makes no difference. What happens in the European Union is of little interest to Brits till the UK govt has to effect the appropriate legislation.
Whoever passes that law gets the blame."
totally disagree....its the fools who signed us up to allow european law to govern us that i find personally to blame |
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By *ne ShotMan
over a year ago
Manchester |
".........,and due to labour theres fook all really we can do about it .
Even if that were true, which it isn't, nobody remembers who's at fault for something happening - they only remember on whose watch the legislation went through.
so whose watch was it that it went through on?
IF it goes through it'll be during this parliament - that'd be the parliament with Cameron supposedly in charge
i was meaning the legislation that allowed the european court to impose directives upon us?
I realised that but it makes no difference. What happens in the European Union is of little interest to Brits till the UK govt has to effect the appropriate legislation.
Whoever passes that law gets the blame."
Have to agree to disagee.. was Blair Brown and Millband (New Labour) that signed all the majority of our laws over to brussells it certainly wasnt the British people as they considered us to thick to even allow us a referendum. if it was not New Labour then tell me ...who was it then ?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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".........,and due to labour theres fook all really we can do about it .
Even if that were true, which it isn't, nobody remembers who's at fault for something happening - they only remember on whose watch the legislation went through.
so whose watch was it that it went through on?
IF it goes through it'll be during this parliament - that'd be the parliament with Cameron supposedly in charge
i was meaning the legislation that allowed the european court to impose directives upon us?
I realised that but it makes no difference. What happens in the European Union is of little interest to Brits till the UK govt has to effect the appropriate legislation.
Whoever passes that law gets the blame.
totally disagree....its the fools who signed us up to allow european law to govern us that i find personally to blame"
That would be Ted Heath. |
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By *ne ShotMan
over a year ago
Manchester |
".........,and due to labour theres fook all really we can do about it .
Even if that were true, which it isn't, nobody remembers who's at fault for something happening - they only remember on whose watch the legislation went through.
so whose watch was it that it went through on?
IF it goes through it'll be during this parliament - that'd be the parliament with Cameron supposedly in charge
i was meaning the legislation that allowed the european court to impose directives upon us?
I realised that but it makes no difference. What happens in the European Union is of little interest to Brits till the UK govt has to effect the appropriate legislation.
Whoever passes that law gets the blame.
totally disagree....its the fools who signed us up to allow european law to govern us that i find personally to blame
That would be Ted Heath."
i think your getting confused ted heath signed us up to the european union the Eu this was simply for trade it did not involve us handing over most of our soverign laws to brussels under the european constitution taking away our laws to govern ourselves which brussells pushed onto us during New Labour and Tony Blairs term as prime minister.
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By *ig badMan
over a year ago
Up North :-) |
"Watched the "big question" prog on sunday and apparantly prisoners intend to sue the government if not allowed the vote whilst inside.
I know what MY thoughts on this are
How about you ? "
I have not a huge prob with them voting more an issue with the eurotwats telling the UK what we should do. Let them vote but take away TV,s games consoles, ping pong balls and the rest. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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and is this voting for prisoners not related to the european court of human rights anyway?
dont recall ted heath giving power to them?? but then again im not old enough to know.....ha ha |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"i think your getting confused ted heath signed us up to the european union the Eu this was simply for trade it did not involve us handing over most of our soverign laws to brussels under the european constitution taking away our laws to govern ourselves which brussells pushed onto us during New Labour and Tony Blairs term as prime minister.
"
Heath signed us up to the European Economic Community and the damage, if you see it as damage, was done then. |
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What about the Maastricht Treaty?.....negotiated and signed by John Major.
The Amsterdam Treaty?.....negotiated by John Major but signed Five weeks after Blair took power.
Please don't fall into the trap of believing that the Conservaties never signed up to anything in the EU since Ted Heath.
These treaties are negotiated over many years.....and by succesive governments since Heath. |
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By *ne ShotMan
over a year ago
Manchester |
"Probably in the minority but i fell that if an inmate is due to be released during the term of a government he should be allowed to vote."
Yeah ill go with that ,,,,after his release and the prisoner has served his time but not during it. |
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"Probably in the minority but i fell that if an inmate is due to be released during the term of a government he should be allowed to vote."
That is the argument of the European Court of Human Rights, after all an inmate released will have to live under that government.
It's important to remember that many prisoners have been sentenced to imprisonment for minor crimes such as failure to pay fines as well.
Rapists and Murderers are in the minority in our penal system. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"i think your getting confused ted heath signed us up to the european union the Eu this was simply for trade it did not involve us handing over most of our soverign laws to brussels under the european constitution taking away our laws to govern ourselves which brussells pushed onto us during New Labour and Tony Blairs term as prime minister.
Heath signed us up to the European Economic Community and the damage, if you see it as damage, was done then."
i dont see what heath done as being the cause of the damage.
the current situation of prisoners having the right to vote is totally separate from joining the european union
but i suppose it depends on your allegiances that will give you good reason to apportion blame on one party/person or another
bottom line is a reform of their voting rights is due....labour did have a consultation paper in dec 2006 that looked at this issue........but doesnt look that it went anywhere as the 2nd stage wasnt until april 2009 and that was closed in sept 2009
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Simple solution,follow the French system that includes a fixed term denial of civic rights as part of the punishment."
Yeah I agree with that. Prison's a punishment, and that should mean you lose your right to vote too.
If you're homeless and don't have a registered address like a hostel you can't vote which always sums up how the democratic system fails those most in need of its assistance anyway. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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all of this is totally ridiculous to me.
how can someone who breaks the rules be allowed to use those same rules to gain more money from the state that i could earn in 2 years of work.
i teach my children to accept the consequences of their actions, whatever they maybe.
that's the message the government should send to those that choose to break the law.
i have bent the rules in my time but when i've had to pay the price i,ve accepted it as i knew that it's part and parcel of the choice i made.
i watched the show that started this thread and there was a convicted killer who claimed to have been rehabilitated but when asked if he would give the majority of his compensation to the daughter of the woman he killed he said "no"
the anger i felt when he said that i haven't felt for a long long time
as much as we ridicule the way they do things in the middle east, all credit to them that man wouldn't be breathing now, let alone airing his views on tv.
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By *ne ShotMan
over a year ago
Manchester |
"What about the Maastricht Treaty?.....negotiated and signed by John Major.
The Amsterdam Treaty?.....negotiated by John Major but signed Five weeks after Blair took power.
Please don't fall into the trap of believing that the Conservaties never signed up to anything in the EU since Ted Heath.
These treaties are negotiated over many years.....and by succesive governments since Heath."
we dont ! but in terms of the current predicament allowing prisoners the vote the reason that they are being allowed the vote is because Brussells pushed the the european constitution of human rights on us and Tony Blair agreed to accept it and sign over our soverign rights to govern and continue to make our own laws.. over to Brussells.
He never even allowed the British Public the referndum he promised us in his manifesto, Prior to his third term in office, makes him liar. My personal opinion on why that reason may be was.
A./ probably some Brussells pwerbrokers made noises of him becoming the president of Europe should he sign away our rights to govern ourselves. We all know Tony the crony had a huge ego and his mrs has made millions as her role as a barrister ,,,speacialising in yep defending human rights laws.
So the current predicament now of allowing prisoners the vote was done and dusted years back when Tony blair signed us up to europe . He had a choice ...He didnt have to sign away our soverenty to govern ourselves he could have told them to simply do one.
If you ask me Tony Blair put his own greed and ego before the rights and welfare of ours and his own country sorry but in my eyes he is one of many things ,,including a traitor to his own
country.
I can imagine it hmmmm finish my last term as prime minister move on to become the president of Europe i have the right not to let the British public vote so i wont after all they will only say no and stop me from further coining it in. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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the problem we have is that we are either in Europe or we are not.
if we are then we abide by their rules.
if not then tell them to sod off.
by trying to play both sides of the fence leaves us open to attack from both sides |
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By *ne ShotMan
over a year ago
Manchester |
Jane i dislike the tories as much as i disliked New Labour,,,, so why are you trying to throw a smoke screen? yes the tories signed us up to things but it wasnt them that agreed and signed away our laws and our rights to Brussells leading to the predicament were now facing of allowing prisoners the vote.
Cameron has said the thought of allowing prisoners the vote makes him feel sick. The fact is though his hands are tied because Brussells now dictates our laws as a result of Tony Blair signing the uk up to the european constitution allowing Brussells to dictate our laws. including having to keep rather than deport illegal immigrants who come here and commit crimes.
QC Cherie Blair is raking it in defending them and preaching yes he may be in this country illegally and had no car insurance and ran over and killed a young child but you can not deport him /her because it would take away his quality of life. Makes me want to puke |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"all of this is totally ridiculous to me.
how can someone who breaks the rules be allowed to use those same rules to gain more money from the state that i could earn in 2 years of work.
i teach my children to accept the consequences of their actions, whatever they maybe.
that's the message the government should send to those that choose to break the law.
i have bent the rules in my time but when i've had to pay the price i,ve accepted it as i knew that it's part and parcel of the choice i made.
i watched the show that started this thread and there was a convicted killer who claimed to have been rehabilitated but when asked if he would give the majority of his compensation to the daughter of the woman he killed he said "no"
the anger i felt when he said that i haven't felt for a long long time
as much as we ridicule the way they do things in the middle east, all credit to them that man wouldn't be breathing now, let alone airing his views on tv.
"
Totally agree |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"all of this is totally ridiculous to me.
how can someone who breaks the rules be allowed to use those same rules to gain more money from the state that i could earn in 2 years of work.
i teach my children to accept the consequences of their actions, whatever they maybe.
that's the message the government should send to those that choose to break the law.
i have bent the rules in my time but when i've had to pay the price i,ve accepted it as i knew that it's part and parcel of the choice i made.
i watched the show that started this thread and there was a convicted killer who claimed to have been rehabilitated but when asked if he would give the majority of his compensation to the daughter of the woman he killed he said "no"
the anger i felt when he said that i haven't felt for a long long time
as much as we ridicule the way they do things in the middle east, all credit to them that man wouldn't be breathing now, let alone airing his views on tv.
Totally agree "
OMG
Them talking boobs are following me
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Im about to remove my matchsticks and get some
zzzzzzzzzzzz
And i dont have a stalker list...
Only a nice guy list
so ner ner "
well i'm halfway there being a guy
zzzzzzzzz well
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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We have a prison population (as of January 2011) of 85,000.
Looking at the breakdown of population totals of individual prisons it appears there is no more than 1635 (Wandsworth) currently serving their sentence in any one prison.
Given that the winning majority in many of the wards in which these prisons are located is much higher than the prison population in that ward.
* Wandsworth was won by Labour in 2010 with a majority of 2,524..which would mean that even if the entire prison population of Wandsworth had been allowed to vote, and then subsequently voted Conservative - it wouldn't have made a blind bit of difference to the outcome of the election.
So, let the buggers vote, it will make them feel like they have a little bit of power, satisfy Strasburg, head off the compo claims from pissed off lags, deny Cherie a few zillion quid defending them and silence the right wing media who'll jump on anything to discredit the Coalition. Sorted! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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this is along the same lines as the police telling owners of sheds that they shouldnt put wire mesh on the windows of their sheds. in case the burgalars get hurt.........
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I have come to have a deep understanding of European politics.
If something works in favour of the general population, no one says a dickie and we all forget about it.
If something doesn’t appear to be favourable, everyone points figures at the foreigners and screams like a biatch.
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By *ne ShotMan
over a year ago
Manchester |
"I have come to have a deep understanding of European politics.
If something works in favour of the general population, no one says a dickie and we all forget about it.
If something doesn’t appear to be favourable, everyone points figures at the foreigners and screams like a biatch.
"
Nope we point the finger at the political party in power at the time that,, agreed and signed up to allow bad ideas ,,,,such as allowing prisoners the vote. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I have come to have a deep understanding of European politics.
If something works in favour of the general population, no one says a dickie and we all forget about it.
If something doesn’t appear to be favourable, everyone points figures at the foreigners and screams like a biatch.
Nope we point the finger at the political party in power at the time that,, agreed and signed up to allow bad ideas ,,,,such as allowing prisoners the vote. "
Whether it makes Cameron feel physically sick or not, the matter is effectively out of our hands unless we vote as a nation to quit Europe altogether and re-instate our own laws governing our own affairs.
As I pointed out above, the prison population is not high enough to make a difference in an election and as we've signed up for the Human Rights Act we must abide by it's rulings, or it isn't worth the paper it's written on.
I will feel far more aggrieved if lags start leaving prison with a nice fat cheque for £100k because they've been denied their human right to vote.
(not to be confused with whether it's morally right or wrong to let them vote, the EU has decided they must vote, and we signed up to it). |
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"this is along the same lines as the police telling owners of sheds that they shouldnt put wire mesh on the windows of their sheds. in case the burgalars get hurt.........
"
And outside the wank fantasies of littlejohn,when did that ever happen? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I'm watching Jeremy Kyle and I have the answer...
.. an aptitude test and if you pass it you get the vote.
Some of these numb nuts don't know how to open a front door let alone vote...
....and they ALWAYS say, "Nah man, the lie detector test is... um... lying!"
So there we have it. No thickos voting (which discounts lags and they were stupid enough to get caught in the first place). Job done! |
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"I have come to have a deep understanding of European politics.
If something works in favour of the general population, no one says a dickie and we all forget about it.
If something doesn’t appear to be favourable, everyone points figures at the foreigners and screams like a biatch.
Nope we point the finger at the political party in power at the time that,, agreed and signed up to allow bad ideas ,,,,such as allowing prisoners the vote.
Whether it makes Cameron feel physically sick or not, the matter is effectively out of our hands unless we vote as a nation to quit Europe altogether and re-instate our own laws governing our own affairs.
As I pointed out above, the prison population is not high enough to make a difference in an election and as we've signed up for the Human Rights Act we must abide by it's rulings, or it isn't worth the paper it's written on.
I will feel far more aggrieved if lags start leaving prison with a nice fat cheque for £100k because they've been denied their human right to vote.
(not to be confused with whether it's morally right or wrong to let them vote, the EU has decided they must vote, and we signed up to it)."
Absolutely spot on Wishy! |
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By *ombre35Man
over a year ago
Manchester |
"I have come to have a deep understanding of European politics.
If something works in favour of the general population, no one says a dickie and we all forget about it.
If something doesn’t appear to be favourable, everyone points figures at the foreigners and screams like a biatch.
Nope we point the finger at the political party in power at the time that,, agreed and signed up to allow bad ideas ,,,,such as allowing prisoners the vote.
Whether it makes Cameron feel physically sick or not, the matter is effectively out of our hands unless we vote as a nation to quit Europe altogether and re-instate our own laws governing our own affairs.
As I pointed out above, the prison population is not high enough to make a difference in an election and as we've signed up for the Human Rights Act we must abide by it's rulings, or it isn't worth the paper it's written on.
I will feel far more aggrieved if lags start leaving prison with a nice fat cheque for £100k because they've been denied their human right to vote.
(not to be confused with whether it's morally right or wrong to let them vote, the EU has decided they must vote, and we signed up to it)."
I would disagree Labour signed us up to the European constitution which is now allowing the eurocrats to dictate our laws such as forcing on us the prisoners right to vote.
So i would say New labour signed up to it not the british public. If the British public had been allowed the referendum, that New labour refused to give us and the British public voted in favour of joining the European constitution then yes i would agree and say "we" signed up to it.
As we know labour refused us the referendum the choice to vote on it so no "we" did not sign up to it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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forget this being 18 before you can vote nonsence
aptitude tests
thats whats needed
before you get the chance to vote take a test
the higher your score the more your vote should count
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