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New council Pay to stay rules
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Protest in London yesterday
So anyone that earns over £30k (40k in London) will be paying full market rental rather than subsidied council rates
Simeone I know (she is a teacher, he is a delivery driver earning a total of £52k) will see there concil rent rise from £550 a month to £2200 (London)
Anyone else hit hard with this ?
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So Osborne’s story is this “market” of his: social housing is subsidised, while the price of private rental stock is the true price, the natural one, reached by the irresistible logic of the market.
Of course, social housing is only subsidised in the cost of its creation: it then pays for itself in two or three decades of rents.
It only looks cheap in comparison with private rents, which themselves aren’t arrived at by market imperatives at all, but are the result of three decades of governments subsidising landlords with housing benefit.
Like so many of his measures – the closure of the independent living fund, even the bedroom tax – I sincerely doubt that this will save the money they claim it will, and sometimes doubt that it will save any money at all.
It’s about changing the atmosphere, the commonly held assumptions: life is hard and you’re on your own. |
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"Can't understand anyone wanting to live in London  It's an ok place to visit to see sights but that's about it "
There are millions of people who can't afford the rental market or have a cat's chance in hell of being able to buy in London.
It's all very well turning London into a ghetto for the super-rich but where will the people who drive them cook for them and clean up after them live? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Can't understand anyone wanting to live in London It's an ok place to visit to see sights but that's about it
There are millions of people who can't afford the rental market or have a cat's chance in hell of being able to buy in London.
It's all very well turning London into a ghetto for the super-rich but where will the people who drive them cook for them and clean up after them live?"
ilford or cornbeef city  |
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"Can't understand anyone wanting to live in London It's an ok place to visit to see sights but that's about it
There are millions of people who can't afford the rental market or have a cat's chance in hell of being able to buy in London.
It's all very well turning London into a ghetto for the super-rich but where will the people who drive them cook for them and clean up after them live? ilford or cornbeef city "
Thames Gateway?
I don;t think so... |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"i earn less thn that i earn around 15k a year and i dont see why i should subsidise other on a great deal more from my taxes"
Remember it's household income, so mum (12k) hubby (20k) and 2 teenages working in tesco part time on say £8K) will trigger full rent payments |
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"i earn less thn that i earn around 15k a year and i dont see why i should subsidise other on a great deal more from my taxes
Remember it's household income, so mum (12k) hubby (20k) and 2 teenages working in tesco part time on say £8K) will trigger full rent payments "
Exactly - the threshold is lower than you think. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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when i worked full time i paid my dues, now part time a pay my dues , no subsidies so if they earn enough they should pay there way or look for cheaper housing |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Can't understand anyone wanting to live in London It's an ok place to visit to see sights but that's about it "
It's not just London , others peoples rent will double |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Protest in London yesterday
So anyone that earns over £30k (40k in London) will be paying full market rental rather than subsidied council rates
Simeone I know (she is a teacher, he is a delivery driver earning a total of £52k) will see there concil rent rise from £550 a month to £2200 (London)
Anyone else hit hard with this ?
"
Well it will just make areas of council estates into low income housing areas . In others words slums |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"i earn less thn that i earn around 15k a year and i dont see why i should subsidise other on a great deal more from my taxes
Remember it's household income, so mum (12k) hubby (20k) and 2 teenages working in tesco part time on say £8K) will trigger full rent payments "
Yeh that I get and accept but I still don't understand why your friends on 52k are in a council home. They are why it's been put in place |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"i earn less thn that i earn around 15k a year and i dont see why i should subsidise other on a great deal more from my taxes
Remember it's household income, so mum (12k) hubby (20k) and 2 teenages working in tesco part time on say £8K) will trigger full rent payments "
in your post you have someone you know a teacher and delivery driver earning over 50k
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"Can't understand anyone wanting to live in London It's an ok place to visit to see sights but that's about it
There are millions of people who can't afford the rental market or have a cat's chance in hell of being able to buy in London.
It's all very well turning London into a ghetto for the super-rich but where will the people who drive them cook for them and clean up after them live? ilford or cornbeef city "
Then there's the knock on effect for places that are an easy commute to London. Prices there will go up to as people working in London look to move outwards in order to pay less on accommodation.  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Am I missing Why is a couple earning 52k in a council home?"
Because they have lived in it for 20 years paying rent and bringing up a family - and a 3 bedroom house would be £900k and they can only get a mortgage of £208k |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Am I missing Why is a couple earning 52k in a council home?
Because they have lived in it for 20 years paying rent and bringing up a family - and a 3 bedroom house would be £900k and they can only get a mortgage of £208k"
the still on a good wack and have saved a fortune renting cheap, but did they save the difference in money???? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"i earn less thn that i earn around 15k a year and i dont see why i should subsidise other on a great deal more from my taxes
Remember it's household income, so mum (12k) hubby (20k) and 2 teenages working in tesco part time on say £8K) will trigger full rent payments in your post you have someone you know a teacher and delivery driver earning over 50k
"
That's a real life example, my 2nd example shows it will effect lots more - even people who share a council house |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Choices. I earn a decent wage and live in a lovely spot.
If they're allowed to live in council accommodation then let them if that's their choice.
So many people are just angry at others even though any change in the situation wouldn't improve their own.
Personally I haven't read this story and wonder if they will receive some new benefit or reduction in how they pay rent. Ultimately London needs public sector in terms form of teachers,nurses etc. It's easy to just say live somewhere else...and a bit twatish. |
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" Choices. I earn a decent wage and live in a lovely spot.
If they're allowed to live in council accommodation then let them if that's their choice.
So many people are just angry at others even though any change in the situation wouldn't improve their own.
Personally I haven't read this story and wonder if they will receive some new benefit or reduction in how they pay rent. Ultimately London needs public sector in terms form of teachers,nurses etc. It's easy to just say live somewhere else...and a bit twatish."
 |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Protest in London yesterday
So anyone that earns over £30k (40k in London) will be paying full market rental rather than subsidied council rates
Simeone I know (she is a teacher, he is a delivery driver earning a total of £52k) will see there concil rent rise from £550 a month to £2200 (London)
Anyone else hit hard with this ?
Well it will just make areas of council estates into low income housing areas . In others words slums "
No it won't. Most of my neighbours own their houses,that were once council homes. If you can afford to pay market prices for a nice private rental you should,or buy. People on low incomes who can't afford high rents live in council houses,if they can. If not,they rent private and get rent help,or whatever it's called now. Council homes were built so people who were poor weren't giving all their wages to property owners. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I understand why - they can afford the cost of private rent so why should they pay subsidised rent. Subsidised by the tax payer. London is a bad example though - elsewhere the rents won't be so vast in difference.
They've enjoyed paying a low rent until now.
Their other option is to purchase the property - that's the next madness the Government are bringing in under the Housing Bill. Extending Right to Buy even further.
Sarah
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"I understand why - they can afford the cost of private rent so why should they pay subsidised rent. Subsidised by the tax payer. London is a bad example though - elsewhere the rents won't be so vast in difference.
They've enjoyed paying a low rent until now.
Their other option is to purchase the property - that's the next madness the Government are bringing in under the Housing Bill. Extending Right to Buy even further.
Sarah
"
No - the commercial rented sector is priced too high |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Am I missing Why is a couple earning 52k in a council home?
Because they have lived in it for 20 years paying rent and bringing up a family - and a 3 bedroom house would be £900k and they can only get a mortgage of £208k"
isnt there a right to buy scheme? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"All this does is pit the 'have nots' against the 'have nothings'"
I don't think it does. Maybe I'm becoming cynical in my old age though. I get the bedroom tax too - harsh aren't I !
Sarah |
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"Am I missing Why is a couple earning 52k in a council home?
Because they have lived in it for 20 years paying rent and bringing up a family - and a 3 bedroom house would be £900k and they can only get a mortgage of £208k
isnt there a right to buy scheme? "
A lack of affordable and Council housing is the root cause of the problem |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Am I missing Why is a couple earning 52k in a council home?
Because they have lived in it for 20 years paying rent and bringing up a family - and a 3 bedroom house would be £900k and they can only get a mortgage of £208k
isnt there a right to buy scheme?
A lack of affordable and Council housing is the root cause of the problem"
Mutual exchange to a different area - far from ideal but would poss help them buy.
It's the inflated prices that are the problem . |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Am I missing Why is a couple earning 52k in a council home?
Because they have lived in it for 20 years paying rent and bringing up a family - and a 3 bedroom house would be £900k and they can only get a mortgage of £208k
isnt there a right to buy scheme? "
Yes and they would get a discount of up to £103k plus the house valued as bricks and mortar. My mother in law bought her house for £26k and sold it 3 years later for £140k
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"Am I missing Why is a couple earning 52k in a council home?
Because they have lived in it for 20 years paying rent and bringing up a family - and a 3 bedroom house would be £900k and they can only get a mortgage of £208k
isnt there a right to buy scheme?
Yes and they would get a discount of up to £103k plus the house valued as bricks and mortar. My mother in law bought her house for £26k and sold it 3 years later for £140k
"
Thus inflating property prices further and decreasing the Council stock.
But fair play, doing the government's bidding and making money out of it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Where a lot of government money is going is housing benefit/council tax benefit to people who have been moved to housing association properties with higher rents. |
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"Where a lot of government money is going is housing benefit/council tax benefit to people who have been moved to housing association properties with higher rents. "
No it's going in the MP's pocket....social housing is fucked in this country... |
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"Where a lot of government money is going is housing benefit/council tax benefit to people who have been moved to housing association properties with higher rents. "
Which the government is also trying to open up so people can buy/sell HA properties...
Increasing prices and decreasing affordability... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Am I missing Why is a couple earning 52k in a council home?
Because they have lived in it for 20 years paying rent and bringing up a family - and a 3 bedroom house would be £900k and they can only get a mortgage of £208k
isnt there a right to buy scheme?
Yes and they would get a discount of up to £103k plus the house valued as bricks and mortar. My mother in law bought her house for £26k and sold it 3 years later for £140k
Thus inflating property prices further and decreasing the Council stock.
But fair play, doing the government's bidding and making money out of it. "
And the properties they are building,or rather developers are building as part of the deal they struck for getting council owned land,and renting to council tenants ,are a much higher rent and people are claiming benefits to pay them. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Where a lot of government money is going is housing benefit/council tax benefit to people who have been moved to housing association properties with higher rents.
No it's going in the MP's pocket....social housing is fucked in this country..."
Completely agree!
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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lets not forget if its a council house they can get upto 75% discount if buying the property its 25% discount on market value after 5 years, then between 5 and 10% each year total not to exceed 75% of market value |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Where a lot of government money is going is housing benefit/council tax benefit to people who have been moved to housing association properties with higher rents.
Which the government is also trying to open up so people can buy/sell HA properties...
Increasing prices and decreasing affordability... "
After 4 years my family member will be given the option of buying her flat,with the same discount as council tenants. I'm thinking that the Government doesn't want to have to upkeep properties any more |
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"Where a lot of government money is going is housing benefit/council tax benefit to people who have been moved to housing association properties with higher rents.
Which the government is also trying to open up so people can buy/sell HA properties...
Increasing prices and decreasing affordability...
After 4 years my family member will be given the option of buying her flat,with the same discount as council tenants. I'm thinking that the Government doesn't want to have to upkeep properties any more "
Exactly.
It's ideological, not practical. |
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"Protest in London yesterday
So anyone that earns over £30k (40k in London) will be paying full market rental rather than subsidied council rates
Simeone I know (she is a teacher, he is a delivery driver earning a total of £52k) will see there concil rent rise from £550 a month to £2200 (London)
Anyone else hit hard with this ?
Well it will just make areas of council estates into low income housing areas . In others words slums "
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Protest in London yesterday
So anyone that earns over £30k (40k in London) will be paying full market rental rather than subsidied council rates
Simeone I know (she is a teacher, he is a delivery driver earning a total of £52k) will see there concil rent rise from £550 a month to £2200 (London)
Anyone else hit hard with this ?
Well it will just make areas of council estates into low income housing areas . In others words slums
"
i like how you band people on low income slums  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's easy to just say live somewhere else...and a bit twatish."
Well yes it is a bit twatish, but think it through, if everyone who couldn't afford to live in London without tax payers from the rest of the country subsidising it did move out...
No cleaners, bank tellers, shop assistants, teachers, police, nurses, the place would colapse in weeks not months or years.
Now that would be a protest with real impact.
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By *obletonMan
over a year ago
A Home Among The Woodland Creatures |
"
Well it will just make areas of council estates into low income housing areas . In others words slums "
They aren't already?
And what's wrong with low income housing areas?
Everyone's got to live somewhere, even the people who sweep streets and flip burgers.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Well it will just make areas of council estates into low income housing areas . In others words slums
They aren't already?
And what's wrong with low income housing areas?
Everyone's got to live somewhere, even the people who sweep streets and flip burgers.
"
On new developments it's all mixed in together anyway. Private and social housing. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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So who will benefit from this bill? That's right the private landlords who bought their property and rented it back for 3x the amount they paid in rent. Most of which will vote Tory because Maggie thatcher put them on the property ladder. All the while lower earning people are fucked over again. It's all well and good spouting bollocks like use the right to buy but can these people actually get a mortgage? And even if they could how much would their repayments be?
As stated above who'll be the cleaners, drivers, teachers, waiting staff for the Tory utopia once the working class have been priced out? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Well it will just make areas of council estates into low income housing areas . In others words slums
They aren't already?
And what's wrong with low income housing areas?
Everyone's got to live somewhere, even the people who sweep streets and flip burgers.
On new developments it's all mixed in together anyway. Private and social housing."
My brother and his wife live in one of those properties wow talk about being treated like a lower class citizen |
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By *obletonMan
over a year ago
A Home Among The Woodland Creatures |
Thing is, we're damned if we do anything about and damned if we don't
There's currently around £220 billion owed to banks by private individuals for buy to let mortgages - to put that in perspective that's not far off the national debt of Greece.
Now ask anyone who's ever had a BTL and they'll tell you honestly that unless you out a big slice of the equity down on the property, there's not a lot of fat in it.
All it takes is a big repair bill, a month or two of vacancy, or a hike in interest rates and your so-called investment is going to cost you money.
Interest rates are a particular problem as they have been held at an artificially low level for some time now.
So the upshot is that there's a huge stack of consumer debt that's on pretty shaky ground and if anything happens to bring rents and house prices down (like increasing housing supply in the social housing market), or increase interest rates, could quite likely turn that debt toxic.
The last 2 recessions in a row were kicked off by consumer mortgage debt bubbles, the government, tossers that they are would probably quite like to avoid that happening for a third time (and a second time on their watch) so it's in the Government's interest to keep rents and house prices as high as possible for as long as possible - even if that means subsidising high rents and manipulating the market. |
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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"
Well it will just make areas of council estates into low income housing areas . In others words slums
They aren't already?
And what's wrong with low income housing areas?
Everyone's got to live somewhere, even the people who sweep streets and flip burgers.
On new developments it's all mixed in together anyway. Private and social housing.
My brother and his wife live in one of those properties wow talk about being treated like a lower class citizen "
Are they in one with so-called 'poor doors' that designate private and social residents?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Protest in London yesterday
So anyone that earns over £30k (40k in London) will be paying full market rental rather than subsidied council rates
Simeone I know (she is a teacher, he is a delivery driver earning a total of £52k) will see there concil rent rise from £550 a month to £2200 (London)
Anyone else hit hard with this ?
Well it will just make areas of council estates into low income housing areas . In others words slums
i like how you band people on low income slums "
I should have said in America they have areas of low income housing and these are slums
It won't happen becaus too many people bought council houses and won't want the areas to decline
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Well it will just make areas of council estates into low income housing areas . In others words slums
They aren't already?
And what's wrong with low income housing areas?
Everyone's got to live somewhere, even the people who sweep streets and flip burgers.
On new developments it's all mixed in together anyway. Private and social housing.
My brother and his wife live in one of those properties wow talk about being treated like a lower class citizen "
You can tell the guy That doesn't work in my street new car every 3 years but still keeps the scrap car on the drive and has two sofas and a bed in front garden never cuts the grass.
Kids out all hours of night , he is the only person who doesn't work in my street |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So who will benefit from this bill? That's right the private landlords who bought their property and rented it back for 3x the amount they paid in rent. Most of which will vote Tory because Maggie thatcher put them on the property ladder. All the while lower earning people are fucked over again. It's all well and good spouting bollocks like use the right to buy but can these people actually get a mortgage? And even if they could how much would their repayments be?
As stated above who'll be the cleaners, drivers, teachers, waiting staff for the Tory utopia once the working class have been priced out?"
Those earning over 40k per annum in London would pay market rent.
30k outside of London. It's the prices of London property that causes the issue though - as affording to buy is so difficult.
No idea how you solve it in the Capital.
But it made all be delayed anyway.
Sarah |
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"Those earning over 40k per annum in London would pay market rent.
30k outside of London. It's the prices of London property that causes the issue though - as affording to buy is so difficult.
No idea how you solve it in the Capital.
But it made all be delayed anyway.
Sarah "
You're not actually defending this, are you?
lol |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Well it will just make areas of council estates into low income housing areas . In others words slums
They aren't already?
And what's wrong with low income housing areas?
Everyone's got to live somewhere, even the people who sweep streets and flip burgers.
On new developments it's all mixed in together anyway. Private and social housing.
My brother and his wife live in one of those properties wow talk about being treated like a lower class citizen
You can tell the guy That doesn't work in my street new car every 3 years but still keeps the scrap car on the drive and has two sofas and a bed in front garden never cuts the grass.
Kids out all hours of night , he is the only person who doesn't work in my street "
Is it a motability car, as he is disabled? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Well it will just make areas of council estates into low income housing areas . In others words slums
They aren't already?
And what's wrong with low income housing areas?
Everyone's got to live somewhere, even the people who sweep streets and flip burgers.
On new developments it's all mixed in together anyway. Private and social housing.
My brother and his wife live in one of those properties wow talk about being treated like a lower class citizen
Are they in one with so-called 'poor doors' that designate private and social residents?
"
No it's a new build but the private owners treat the ha residents like shit. I wouldn't mind but some of them are worse. There's one lady who drags her rubbish to dump in the ha bin room. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Those earning over 40k per annum in London would pay market rent.
30k outside of London. It's the prices of London property that causes the issue though - as affording to buy is so difficult.
No idea how you solve it in the Capital.
But it made all be delayed anyway.
Sarah
You're not actually defending this, are you?
lol"
I do get it ! We cannot sustain it all anymore. I can't afford to live in London, I've always worked but I can't.
Sarah |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So who will benefit from this bill? That's right the private landlords who bought their property and rented it back for 3x the amount they paid in rent. Most of which will vote Tory because Maggie thatcher put them on the property ladder. All the while lower earning people are fucked over again. It's all well and good spouting bollocks like use the right to buy but can these people actually get a mortgage? And even if they could how much would their repayments be?
As stated above who'll be the cleaners, drivers, teachers, waiting staff for the Tory utopia once the working class have been priced out?
Those earning over 40k per annum in London would pay market rent.
30k outside of London. It's the prices of London property that causes the issue though - as affording to buy is so difficult.
No idea how you solve it in the Capital.
But it made all be delayed anyway.
Sarah "
Those earning over 40k generally have no choice, as for travelling into london that costs a fair whack too |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Well it will just make areas of council estates into low income housing areas . In others words slums
They aren't already?
And what's wrong with low income housing areas?
Everyone's got to live somewhere, even the people who sweep streets and flip burgers.
On new developments it's all mixed in together anyway. Private and social housing.
My brother and his wife live in one of those properties wow talk about being treated like a lower class citizen
You can tell the guy That doesn't work in my street new car every 3 years but still keeps the scrap car on the drive and has two sofas and a bed in front garden never cuts the grass.
Kids out all hours of night , he is the only person who doesn't work in my street
Is it a motability car, as he is disabled?"
Him and his wife plays football with the kids in the street so I doubt it yet he has a blue badge |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Protest in London yesterday
So anyone that earns over £30k (40k in London) will be paying full market rental rather than subsidied council rates
Simeone I know (she is a teacher, he is a delivery driver earning a total of £52k) will see there concil rent rise from £550 a month to £2200 (London)
Anyone else hit hard with this ?
Well it will just make areas of council estates into low income housing areas . In others words slums
i like how you band people on low income slums
I should have said in America they have areas of low income housing and these are slums
It won't happen becaus too many people bought council houses and won't want the areas to decline
"
Councils are knocking down the slums and selling the highly sought after land to developers. The tenants are moved to greater London new developments and mix in with the people who bought theirs. Some are not very desirable neighbours,some are hard working nice people. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Protest in London yesterday
So anyone that earns over £30k (40k in London) will be paying full market rental rather than subsidied council rates
Simeone I know (she is a teacher, he is a delivery driver earning a total of £52k) will see there concil rent rise from £550 a month to £2200 (London)
Anyone else hit hard with this ?
Well it will just make areas of council estates into low income housing areas . In others words slums
i like how you band people on low income slums
I should have said in America they have areas of low income housing and these are slums
It won't happen becaus too many people bought council houses and won't want the areas to decline
Councils are knocking down the slums and selling the highly sought after land to developers. The tenants are moved to greater London new developments and mix in with the people who bought theirs. Some are not very desirable neighbours,some are hard working nice people. "
Oh and some are not working,nice people |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Well it will just make areas of council estates into low income housing areas . In others words slums
They aren't already?
And what's wrong with low income housing areas?
Everyone's got to live somewhere, even the people who sweep streets and flip burgers.
On new developments it's all mixed in together anyway. Private and social housing.
My brother and his wife live in one of those properties wow talk about being treated like a lower class citizen
You can tell the guy That doesn't work in my street new car every 3 years but still keeps the scrap car on the drive and has two sofas and a bed in front garden never cuts the grass.
Kids out all hours of night , he is the only person who doesn't work in my street
Is it a motability car, as he is disabled?
Him and his wife plays football with the kids in the street so I doubt it yet he has a blue badge "
Not all disabilities render you unable to do activities  . My ex's mother had a blue badge as she had sciatica, she could still do things only it'd play up often, and she had a mobility car, my besties sister has a mobility car as her son is autistic |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Protest in London yesterday
So anyone that earns over £30k (40k in London) will be paying full market rental rather than subsidied council rates
Simeone I know (she is a teacher, he is a delivery driver earning a total of £52k) will see there concil rent rise from £550 a month to £2200 (London)
Anyone else hit hard with this ?
Well it will just make areas of council estates into low income housing areas . In others words slums
i like how you band people on low income slums
I should have said in America they have areas of low income housing and these are slums
It won't happen becaus too many people bought council houses and won't want the areas to decline
Councils are knocking down the slums and selling the highly sought after land to developers. The tenants are moved to greater London new developments and mix in with the people who bought theirs. Some are not very desirable neighbours,some are hard working nice people. "
In southampton they are knocking down spacious 3 bed maisonettes with one bed flats at bottom floor and putting in loAds of tiny 2 bed flats putting 100 flats where 10 used to be |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
In southampton they are knocking down spacious 3 bed maisonettes with one bed flats at bottom floor and putting in loAds of tiny 2 bed flats putting 100 flats where 10 used to be "
We can't have it all ways though. We dont have unlimited land and cities will be more densely populated. Two beds are in demand and that helps with bedroom tax too. It makes sense. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Protest in London yesterday
So anyone that earns over £30k (40k in London) will be paying full market rental rather than subsidied council rates
Simeone I know (she is a teacher, he is a delivery driver earning a total of £52k) will see there concil rent rise from £550 a month to £2200 (London)
Anyone else hit hard with this ?
Well it will just make areas of council estates into low income housing areas . In others words slums
i like how you band people on low income slums
I should have said in America they have areas of low income housing and these are slums
It won't happen becaus too many people bought council houses and won't want the areas to decline
Councils are knocking down the slums and selling the highly sought after land to developers. The tenants are moved to greater London new developments and mix in with the people who bought theirs. Some are not very desirable neighbours,some are hard working nice people.
In southampton they are knocking down spacious 3 bed maisonettes with one bed flats at bottom floor and putting in loAds of tiny 2 bed flats putting 100 flats where 10 used to be "
all well and good until some buy to let landlord snaps the lot up and rents them for double the value. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I do not know what income limits should be imposed on social housing but since its purpose is to help those on a lower income, I am in agreement with the general principle of an income limit after which market rate is charged.
I can see some logic in a small right-to-buy discount to encourage reinvestment in new build but fail to see the logic or justice in offering major discounts. |
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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"
Well it will just make areas of council estates into low income housing areas . In others words slums
They aren't already?
And what's wrong with low income housing areas?
Everyone's got to live somewhere, even the people who sweep streets and flip burgers.
On new developments it's all mixed in together anyway. Private and social housing.
My brother and his wife live in one of those properties wow talk about being treated like a lower class citizen
Are they in one with so-called 'poor doors' that designate private and social residents?
No it's a new build but the private owners treat the ha residents like shit. I wouldn't mind but some of them are worse. There's one lady who drags her rubbish to dump in the ha bin room. "
I understand it's new build, mixed tenure. Some have been criticised because the social housing tenants have different entrances. Some have constant complaints from the owners who object to the social housing tenants being on the same development (they knew they would be there when they bought), even when they are shared ownership buyers.
Some HAs have looked at making the split on the tenure more obvious and separating out the developments.
London has always had rich and poor living cheek by jowl so I find it even more odious that there are moves to make it even more obvious that there are socio-economic differences on new builds.
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"
Well it will just make areas of council estates into low income housing areas . In others words slums
They aren't already?
And what's wrong with low income housing areas?
Everyone's got to live somewhere, even the people who sweep streets and flip burgers.
On new developments it's all mixed in together anyway. Private and social housing.
My brother and his wife live in one of those properties wow talk about being treated like a lower class citizen
You can tell the guy That doesn't work in my street new car every 3 years but still keeps the scrap car on the drive and has two sofas and a bed in front garden never cuts the grass.
Kids out all hours of night , he is the only person who doesn't work in my street "
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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"I do not know what income limits should be imposed on social housing but since its purpose is to help those on a lower income, I am in agreement with the general principle of an income limit after which market rate is charged.
I can see some logic in a small right-to-buy discount to encourage reinvestment in new build but fail to see the logic or justice in offering major discounts."
Why is a £100k public money incentive to buy any different to £100k being used for housing benefit? One person is called a scrounger for getting HB and the other is patted on the back for getting the same public money for their own benefit.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I do not know what income limits should be imposed on social housing but since its purpose is to help those on a lower income, I am in agreement with the general principle of an income limit after which market rate is charged.
I can see some logic in a small right-to-buy discount to encourage reinvestment in new build but fail to see the logic or justice in offering major discounts.
Why is a £100k public money incentive to buy any different to £100k being used for housing benefit? One person is called a scrounger for getting HB and the other is patted on the back for getting the same public money for their own benefit.
"
I suppose the difference is you're now one of us. Also who actually owns the property? Just because a property is valued at £250k it doesn't mean the government are giving £100k to the council the buyer is buying from. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I do not know what income limits should be imposed on social housing but since its purpose is to help those on a lower income, I am in agreement with the general principle of an income limit after which market rate is charged.
I can see some logic in a small right-to-buy discount to encourage reinvestment in new build but fail to see the logic or justice in offering major discounts.
Why is a £100k public money incentive to buy any different to £100k being used for housing benefit? One person is called a scrounger for getting HB and the other is patted on the back for getting the same public money for their own benefit.
"
I just feel it depletes the social housing stock. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I have real mixed feelings about this. The issue isn't social housing being rented at less than market value, it's that market value is so ridiculously overinflated due to the greed of private landlords. This isn't the way to tackle that problem but on an entirety selfish value I was priced out of London and so have many of my friends and it does grate that people who's salaries make them by definition middle class live in social housing.
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"Can't understand anyone wanting to live in London It's an ok place to visit to see sights but that's about it
There are millions of people who can't afford the rental market or have a cat's chance in hell of being able to buy in London.
It's all very well turning London into a ghetto for the super-rich but where will the people who drive them cook for them and clean up after them live? ilford or cornbeef city
Then there's the knock on effect for places that are an easy commute to London. Prices there will go up to as people working in London look to move outwards in order to pay less on accommodation. "
True. Will be selling my Dulwich home and retire out of London and live mortgage free. I wanted to live within easy commute to London but each week my search circle gets bigger as the price of houses grow. At the moment I'm looking in Wiltshire and Oxfordshire. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I have real mixed feelings about this. The issue isn't social housing being rented at less than market value, it's that market value is so ridiculously overinflated due to the greed of private landlords. This isn't the way to tackle that problem but on an entirety selfish value I was priced out of London and so have many of my friends and it does grate that people who's salaries make them by definition middle class live in social housing.
"
'Greed' is a bit emotive. You could replace it with 'commercial sense.' They don't owe the world a living and (knowing two) suspect that many of them have their own financial pressures. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Can't understand anyone wanting to live in London It's an ok place to visit to see sights but that's about it
There are millions of people who can't afford the rental market or have a cat's chance in hell of being able to buy in London.
It's all very well turning London into a ghetto for the super-rich but where will the people who drive them cook for them and clean up after them live? ilford or cornbeef city
Then there's the knock on effect for places that are an easy commute to London. Prices there will go up to as people working in London look to move outwards in order to pay less on accommodation.
True. Will be selling my Dulwich home and retire out of London and live mortgage free. I wanted to live within easy commute to London but each week my search circle gets bigger as the price of houses grow. At the moment I'm looking in Wiltshire and Oxfordshire. "
Bicester is very nice and reasonable priced |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Move out of London simple !
It's a shit hole anyway, over crowded dump  "
Shhhhhhhhh
don't tell them that, keep them believing they live somewhere nice hehe |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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what i find astonishing that over the last 10 years in england and wales over 1 million properties have been compulsory purchased by local authorities and demolished and the land given or sold off and less than 250,000 properties replaced, mostly to buy and not rentals. so many local authorities have contributed to the housing crisis that all levels face, whether it be buying or renting |
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it's quite bizarre to think that so many folk hold such an odd notion that the difference in price between a local authorities rent (based on the model of running and maintaining their exisiting housing stock in a non-profit fashion) and the private sectors (based on the model of maximum profit on top of maintenance and administration costs) market rate is somehow a subsidy.
everyone on this thread has had the right to apply to be placed on the council housing waiting list in their area but most have chosen not to.
this all just sounds like jealousy really. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"it's quite bizarre to think that so many folk hold such an odd notion that the difference in price between a local authorities rent (based on the model of running and maintaining their exisiting housing stock in a non-profit fashion) and the private sectors (based on the model of maximum profit on top of maintenance and administration costs) market rate is somehow a subsidy.
everyone on this thread has had the right to apply to be placed on the council housing waiting list in their area but most have chosen not to.
this all just sounds like jealousy really."
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Dead simple really.
If people cant afford to live in London, then leave the place and let it become a place that only the rich live in.
No hospitals,no public transport,no police.
Watch the prices drop quickly as those that are left alone with no public services.
Then let all those pesky immigrants, have free run of the place.
 |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Can't understand anyone wanting to live in London It's an ok place to visit to see sights but that's about it
There are millions of people who can't afford the rental market or have a cat's chance in hell of being able to buy in London.
It's all very well turning London into a ghetto for the super-rich but where will the people who drive them cook for them and clean up after them live?"
Earning in excess of 40k per annum you are able to afford private / full rental price......
What a joke...... I don't earn anywhere near that and have to pay full market value |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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It seems an excessive increase going right up to market rents, but £550 pcm is incredibly low. A more rational plan would be some kind of stepped increase. More money for the LA or housing association, but still affordable for those who have to pay it.
It'll be delayed anyway, no legislation that's even remotely controversial is going anywhere anytime soon, government is paralysed by the referendum. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Can't understand anyone wanting to live in London It's an ok place to visit to see sights but that's about it
There are millions of people who can't afford the rental market or have a cat's chance in hell of being able to buy in London.
It's all very well turning London into a ghetto for the super-rich but where will the people who drive them cook for them and clean up after them live?
Earning in excess of 40k per annum you are able to afford private / full rental price......
What a joke...... I don't earn anywhere near that and have to pay full market value"
In London ? Where it's £2k for a 2 bedroom flat ? |
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"It seems an excessive increase going right up to market rents, but £550 pcm is incredibly low. A more rational plan would be some kind of stepped increase. More money for the LA or housing association, but still affordable for those who have to pay it.
It'll be delayed anyway, no legislation that's even remotely controversial is going anywhere anytime soon, government is paralysed by the referendum. "
if the LA or housing associations can maintain and administer their housing stocks at a break-even rent of £550 per month then exactly why should the rent be increased by a central government mandate? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It seems an excessive increase going right up to market rents, but £550 pcm is incredibly low. A more rational plan would be some kind of stepped increase. More money for the LA or housing association, but still affordable for those who have to pay it.
It'll be delayed anyway, no legislation that's even remotely controversial is going anywhere anytime soon, government is paralysed by the referendum.
if the LA or housing associations can maintain and administer their housing stocks at a break-even rent of £550 per month then exactly why should the rent be increased by a central government mandate? "
Because if slightly higher rents could be levied on those with levels of income to be able to afford it, those LAs and housing associations would be able to invest that surplus in increasing the housing stock for those who need it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Yep more than 3/4 of my income would go on rent if I did not own..... It's just the way it is all over the country, but why should someone earning 40k a year. Take home 3k a month be subsidised by others that pay tax and earn less than half that..... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It seems an excessive increase going right up to market rents, but £550 pcm is incredibly low. A more rational plan would be some kind of stepped increase. More money for the LA or housing association, but still affordable for those who have to pay it.
It'll be delayed anyway, no legislation that's even remotely controversial is going anywhere anytime soon, government is paralysed by the referendum.
if the LA or housing associations can maintain and administer their housing stocks at a break-even rent of £550 per month then exactly why should the rent be increased by a central government mandate?
Because if slightly higher rents could be levied on those with levels of income to be able to afford it, those LAs and housing associations would be able to invest that surplus in increasing the housing stock for those who need it. "
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"It seems an excessive increase going right up to market rents, but £550 pcm is incredibly low. A more rational plan would be some kind of stepped increase. More money for the LA or housing association, but still affordable for those who have to pay it.
It'll be delayed anyway, no legislation that's even remotely controversial is going anywhere anytime soon, government is paralysed by the referendum.
if the LA or housing associations can maintain and administer their housing stocks at a break-even rent of £550 per month then exactly why should the rent be increased by a central government mandate?
Because if slightly higher rents could be levied on those with levels of income to be able to afford it, those LAs and housing associations would be able to invest that surplus in increasing the housing stock for those who need it. "
that idea is erroneus mostly because without the government completely removing the borrowing-cap on LAs then that's never going to happen, especially when the LAs are forced to sell existing stock at huge discounts to tennants if they ask and are then disallowed to re-invest the monies from those sales in new-build stock. besides it would be more financially productive to raise the cash by adding another couple of layers of council tax banding to the upper half of the banding system. |
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"Yep more than 3/4 of my income would go on rent if I did not own..... It's just the way it is all over the country, but why should someone earning 40k a year. Take home 3k a month be subsidised by others that pay tax and earn less than half that....."
again.... where is the subsidy you speak of when the social housing model is one of non-profit/break even? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It seems an excessive increase going right up to market rents, but £550 pcm is incredibly low. A more rational plan would be some kind of stepped increase. More money for the LA or housing association, but still affordable for those who have to pay it.
It'll be delayed anyway, no legislation that's even remotely controversial is going anywhere anytime soon, government is paralysed by the referendum.
if the LA or housing associations can maintain and administer their housing stocks at a break-even rent of £550 per month then exactly why should the rent be increased by a central government mandate?
Because if slightly higher rents could be levied on those with levels of income to be able to afford it, those LAs and housing associations would be able to invest that surplus in increasing the housing stock for those who need it.
that idea is erroneus mostly because without the government completely removing the borrowing-cap on LAs then that's never going to happen, especially when the LAs are forced to sell existing stock at huge discounts to tennants if they ask and are then disallowed to re-invest the monies from those sales in new-build stock. besides it would be more financially productive to raise the cash by adding another couple of layers of council tax banding to the upper half of the banding system."
I don't see a problem with lifting the borrowing cap for housing, where a clear income stream can be shown to meet the repayments (the increased rents). Councils already have widespread borrowing powers under the Prudential Code for non-housing investment, and they've managed these perfectly well for the last 10 years or so since the system was brought in.
I'd end right to buy anyway, it's now an anachronism which only benefits the very few who were lucky enough to get their feet through the door of a council property before it became so difficult to do so.
I just think if someone on £20k can afford £500pcm, someone on £40k could afford say £750. That's £250pcm extra that could be ploughed into providing more social housing for more people. Those people in turn pay rents to the LA/HA, which also repays the borrowing.
I agree that someone on £40k in central London can't afford the market rent in many areas, but what about all those who earn less but aren't in social housing? Most of my friends in London end up moving every year as rents go up and up, they don't have the level of security to be able to plan their lives beyond the short term.
Increasing CT would do nothing to help this situation, because council's HRAs are completely ring fenced and separate from their general funds. And it misses housing associations out of the loop who are major providers of social housing.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Yep more than 3/4 of my income would go on rent if I did not own..... It's just the way it is all over the country, but why should someone earning 40k a year. Take home 3k a month be subsidised by others that pay tax and earn less than half that.....
again.... where is the subsidy you speak of when the social housing model is one of non-profit/break even?"
But it's not is it..... All housing schemes have to make a profit, if they did not then they would not afford the up keep on the properties etc.... I know I worked with a housing company for nearly two years, until they pulled out of the project in my local village stating it was not profitable and as such could take the scheme no further... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"it's quite bizarre to think that so many folk hold such an odd notion that the difference in price between a local authorities rent (based on the model of running and maintaining their exisiting housing stock in a non-profit fashion) and the private sectors (based on the model of maximum profit on top of maintenance and administration costs) market rate is somehow a subsidy.
everyone on this thread has had the right to apply to be placed on the council housing waiting list in their area but most have chosen not to.
this all just sounds like jealousy really."
Waiting lists - aren't open to everyone. It's all constantly changing. It'll all end up being means tested, local connections are getting more stringent.
This isn't about social housing - I want it to stay. It's about those on good incomes - paying low rents when they can afford more.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I'm sorry but if your talking about a council property rather than housing tenancy, the the subsidy is from all our council tax......"
Is it all from council tax? Not from the Local Authority's other income streams too? Nothing from the Government?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I'm sorry but if your talking about a council property rather than housing tenancy, the the subsidy is from all our council tax......"
It's not. Housing Revenue Accounts are ring fenced and self-financing. Council tenants support the costs of it. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"i earn less thn that i earn around 15k a year and i dont see why i should subsidise other on a great deal more from my taxes "
But you are a net burden already on society the cut off point is a gross of £39k under that you get more out than you pay in |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"i earn less thn that i earn around 15k a year and i dont see why i should subsidise other on a great deal more from my taxes
But you are a net burden already on society the cut off point is a gross of £39k under that you get more out than you pay in "
Really ? That's too simplistic surely , there must be lots of variables around that. |
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"i earn less thn that i earn around 15k a year and i dont see why i should subsidise other on a great deal more from my taxes
But you are a net burden already on society the cut off point is a gross of £39k under that you get more out than you pay in "
That's crap, I don't know where you get your info from but I earn a lot less then £39k and I don't get a penny back out |
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Don't demonize the small buy to let landlords, they don't charge in tent much more than the mortgage they are paying. Plus the new rules penalise them and mean that it's going to be uneconomical to consider doing.
Unless, of course, you're a multi millionaire who owns in excess of 15 properties when these new rules won't apply.
The housing crisis is due to piss poor planning by governments of all sides over the last 40 years.
This is just the latest bandaid, the latest example of those at the top getting us to be at each other's throats blaming our neighbours for the debt crisis.
It's the millionaires, bankers and greedy idiot MPs who created the problem. |
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"
Earning in excess of 40k per annum you are able to afford private / full rental price......
What a joke...... I don't earn anywhere near that and have to pay full market value"
What a joke indeed. You do realise that by living where you do, 'full market value' to you is less than half what folks in London - and down South in general actually - have to pay.
Your version of 'full market rental' is probably about the social housing reduced rate in London so your coma rising is not a fair one.
*Her* |
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I was born and raised in london and it will always be home, but I decided to move out a few years ago because it just became fucking ridiculous spending 6/8s my money on having a pokey 1 bed flat. I earn under the national average and i'm about to buy my first home. With a mortgage of 208k you can buy a 4 bed house in some places...if you choose to live in London I think it's fair to pay the going rate. You can be a teacher and a delivery driver anywhere in the country. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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This whole idea sounds like the usual give in one hand take with the other, you watch the budget when mr bean raises the tax threshold and loads of people are better off, but fail to see where it's being taken back.
The other thing this does is discourages people wanting to work, why bother if once you start you cannot afford to live once the government starts taking their share? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"i earn less thn that i earn around 15k a year and i dont see why i should subsidise other on a great deal more from my taxes
But you are a net burden already on society the cut off point is a gross of £39k under that you get more out than you pay in
That's crap, I don't know where you get your info from but I earn a lot less then £39k and I don't get a penny back out"
Not crap but facts I'm afraid
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/tax/10638283/How-much-we-give-the-state-in-tax-and-how-much-we-get-back.html
+ many more sources of information
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By *umpkinMan
over a year ago
near the sounds of the wimborne quarter jack! |
"Can't understand anyone wanting to live in London It's an ok place to visit to see sights but that's about it
There are millions of people who can't afford the rental market or have a cat's chance in hell of being able to buy in London.
It's all very well turning London into a ghetto for the super-rich but where will the people who drive them cook for them and clean up after them live?"
This |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"i earn less thn that i earn around 15k a year and i dont see why i should subsidise other on a great deal more from my taxes
But you are a net burden already on society the cut off point is a gross of £39k under that you get more out than you pay in
That's crap, I don't know where you get your info from but I earn a lot less then £39k and I don't get a penny back out
Not crap but facts I'm afraid
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/tax/10638283/How-much-we-give-the-state-in-tax-and-how-much-we-get-back.html
+ many more sources of information
"
Just read the article and it's slightly less as at £35-38k you break even, so don't take more out.
Plus it looks at lots of variables, so if you have children it takes their education into account - which makes sense. But they're the future tax payers - so you need them ! They're not just a drain on our taxes forever.
Sarah |
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By *dd269Man
over a year ago
Clee |
Trailer Parks in America! - We have them here too - vast caravan holiday parks in most UK seaside resorts that only allow 10 months per year occupation to keep up the pretence that they are only holiday homes.
For two months the pensioners living there go to Spain - we call them Sunbirds |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Trailer Parks in America! - We have them here too - vast caravan holiday parks in most UK seaside resorts that only allow 10 months per year occupation to keep up the pretence that they are only holiday homes.
For two months the pensioners living there go to Spain - we call them Sunbirds"
Considering the fact that I very much doubt there will be a state pension by the time I reach retirement age, I'd be quite happy with this arrangement if it allowed me to live in relative comfort! |
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"i earn less thn that i earn around 15k a year and i dont see why i should subsidise other on a great deal more from my taxes"
How are you subsidising them?
The home was likely built before 1980.
That they pay a reduced rent is not the same as receiving housing benefit. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"i earn less thn that i earn around 15k a year and i dont see why i should subsidise other on a great deal more from my taxes"
Let's face it we all got conned in the biggest con ever pulled by anyone. Selling London bridge has nothing on the right to buy con.
In a few swift moves the government transfered public owned housing to personal debt removing the option to strike for better wages, destroyed the unions putting all the power with the government and big businesses. Then followed up with share ownership of utilities and national services along with social housing. So that people can make profit if they have the money to get into the game.
Even if we get a Social minded government that builds replacement housing stock, the rents will have to be at current market rates to cover land purchase and build costs and it would need to be a 20+ year finance game to make it viable, probably 50 year in London.
With a 5 year government term it is extremely unlikely.
Maggie Thatcher puts Charles Ponzi and all the other con artists to shame. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Maggie Thatcher puts Charles Ponzi and all the other con artists to shame."
Wonder when we will have another female PM - and if the USA will ever have a female president ! Strange that they never have.
Sarah |
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