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The travesty of faith schools
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"School and the education systems in general is, always has been and ever will be an important part of human development. Hence it should be as balanced and secular as possible in all ways to ensure healthy mental and physical development in the important formative years. Surely no-one could disagree with this. It might shock people to know that nearly all selectively religious schools are blatantly breaking the law with respect to the 'School Admissions Code' Both the British Humanist Association and the Fair Admissions Campaign have reported this extensively to Parliament with the result that these civil organisations have been effectively banned from formally challenging school admission arrangements where they are not compliant with the School Admissions Code. The ban, which has been proposed essentially in response to the BHA’s and FAC’s report, has been roundly criticised by a range of prominent figures since it was announced last month. Just yesterday Lord Watson wrote that the move was ‘a clear case of shoot the messenger rather than address the problem’, To save a lot of cut-and-pasting, we urge fabbers to check this out on the British Humanist Association website. This affects all of us at a basic level as another 'thin end of the wedge' " Funny how you combined balanced and secular in the same sentence, as Catholic school or other religious schools were unbalanced due to the fact that they aren't secular. | |||
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"The issue here (for the pedants especially) is that the Government is attempting to GAG organisations that are exposing flagrant disregard of the law by faith/selective schools and other 'academies' " To be honest, knowing how some academies function, their treatment of the faith curriculum is the least of our worries | |||
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"The issue here (for the pedants especially) is that the Government is attempting to GAG organisations that are exposing flagrant disregard of the law by faith/selective schools and other 'academies' To be honest, knowing how some academies function, their treatment of the faith curriculum is the least of our worries"   | |||
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"The issue here (for the pedants especially) is that the Government is attempting to GAG organisations that are exposing flagrant disregard of the law by faith/selective schools and other 'academies' To be honest, knowing how some academies function, their treatment of the faith curriculum is the least of our worries" this | |||
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"It affects us all, you say? How does it affect me?" These are the adults of the future who will be making the decisions for us as we age. We will be dependent on their decisions, so let's home they have a strong moral compass and compassion. It affects us all. | |||
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"It affects us all, you say? How does it affect me? These are the adults of the future who will be making the decisions for us as we age. We will be dependent on their decisions, so let's home they have a strong moral compass and compassion. It affects us all." They're at school now so it's going to be a while before they're making important decisions on behalf of anyone else. I'm already 42. I'm not particularly worried. The lot currently making decisions bother me far more! | |||
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"It affects us all, you say? How does it affect me? These are the adults of the future who will be making the decisions for us as we age. We will be dependent on their decisions, so let's home they have a strong moral compass and compassion. It affects us all. They're at school now so it's going to be a while before they're making important decisions on behalf of anyone else. I'm already 42. I'm not particularly worried. The lot currently making decisions bother me far more!" You don't feel you have any responsibility to others? Or wouldn't want others looking out for you? My teens are just out of school, my youngest is at secondary, an academy .... not long until they are in adulthood, certainly before we retire. This generation are suffering from Gove's ideas .... and this I'm alright jack attitude is partly what has let it happen .... | |||
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"It affects us all, you say? How does it affect me? These are the adults of the future who will be making the decisions for us as we age. We will be dependent on their decisions, so let's home they have a strong moral compass and compassion. It affects us all. They're at school now so it's going to be a while before they're making important decisions on behalf of anyone else. I'm already 42. I'm not particularly worried. The lot currently making decisions bother me far more! You don't feel you have any responsibility to others? Or wouldn't want others looking out for you? My teens are just out of school, my youngest is at secondary, an academy .... not long until they are in adulthood, certainly before we retire. This generation are suffering from Gove's ideas .... and this I'm alright jack attitude is partly what has let it happen ...." I don't know much about what's happening in schools and it's quite low down on my list of priorities at the moment. I'm very often on the thin end of I'm all right Jack attitudes at the moment so, yes, I am prioritising taking care of myself over worrying about things that have little impact on me. | |||
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"I wonder if anyone can defend the teaching of Noah and the ark as being a fact is balanced and a positive attribute for a child's education ? Because it is being taught . I had the great displeasure of a work experience boy who was convinced what he had been taught was fact
"The whole issue with the RE curriculum, in my opinion, is that it is left up to local advisory councils to set up an agreed syllabus to which local schools adhere to, some more loosely than others (I am not talking about academies here). Thus every children is sort of left to the whims of their local area. I don't think this is a good thing. Far from being in favour of some of Gove's changes it the curriculum, and the constraints of it and the lack of preparation for the world of the future these children will go into, one thing that I think should be more standardized to atop the very thing you talk about is that there should be a national curriculum for RE and all schools should covered it in the tone of 'this is what this faith believes' etc .. for children to get a grasp that many faiths are actually built up in the same principles as well as for children to reflect and come to terms with their own spirituality and belief system. | |||
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"Cake anyone?" Your point is?? | |||
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"School and the education systems in general is, always has been and ever will be an important part of human development. Hence it should be as balanced and secular as possible in all ways to ensure healthy mental and physical development in the important formative years. Surely no-one could disagree with this. It might shock people to know that nearly all selectively religious schools are blatantly breaking the law with respect to the 'School Admissions Code' Both the British Humanist Association and the Fair Admissions Campaign have reported this extensively to Parliament with the result that these civil organisations have been effectively banned from formally challenging school admission arrangements where they are not compliant with the School Admissions Code. The ban, which has been proposed essentially in response to the BHA’s and FAC’s report, has been roundly criticised by a range of prominent figures since it was announced last month. Just yesterday Lord Watson wrote that the move was ‘a clear case of shoot the messenger rather than address the problem’, To save a lot of cut-and-pasting, we urge fabbers to check this out on the British Humanist Association website. This affects all of us at a basic level as another 'thin end of the wedge' " . As the UK is still a Christian country , why would anyone be bothered about the admission criteria of selectively religious schools . Religion and Christianity is or should be an important part of people's lives . No one is compelled to send their child to s religious school. Many religious schools achieve higher results than non religious ones . | |||
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". As the UK is still a Christian country , why would anyone be bothered about the admission criteria of selectively religious schools . Religion and Christianity is or should be an important part of people's lives . No one is compelled to send their child to s religious school. Many religious schools achieve higher results than non religious ones . " What bollocks. The only reason church attendance hasn't dies out in this country is thanks to immigrants boosting the numbers. Even with them it's a fucking big stretch to still claim this is a 'Christian nation'. | |||
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". As the UK is still a Christian country , why would anyone be bothered about the admission criteria of selectively religious schools . Religion and Christianity is or should be an important part of people's lives . No one is compelled to send their child to s religious school. Many religious schools achieve higher results than non religious ones . What bollocks. The only reason church attendance hasn't dies out in this country is thanks to immigrants boosting the numbers. Even with them it's a fucking big stretch to still claim this is a 'Christian nation'." . It is surprising then than many people still want a church wedding or funeral and also want their children to be baptised . . I would be surprised if immigration had any real impact on church attendance . Many people are very gratefull for the standards achieved by church schools | |||
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". As the UK is still a Christian country , why would anyone be bothered about the admission criteria of selectively religious schools . Religion and Christianity is or should be an important part of people's lives . No one is compelled to send their child to s religious school. Many religious schools achieve higher results than non religious ones . What bollocks. The only reason church attendance hasn't dies out in this country is thanks to immigrants boosting the numbers. Even with them it's a fucking big stretch to still claim this is a 'Christian nation'.. It is surprising then than many people still want a church wedding or funeral and also want their children to be baptised . . I would be surprised if immigration had any real impact on church attendance . Many people are very gratefull for the standards achieved by church schools " . No offence pat but have you actually looked at church attendance figures!. Or baptism figures. Or the fact that the vast majority of immigration in the last 14 years has been from very catholic countries | |||
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"You make the assumption that secular is balanced. That is a highly subjective statement to make" Actually they really don't. I think that was a case of you deciding what they said before reading their words! | |||
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"It affects us all, you say? How does it affect me?" Oh, it just impacts the kind of society we live in and the way the government that represents us operates. So, it's completely irrelevant to you I expect. | |||
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"School and the education systems in general is, always has been and ever will be an important part of human development. Hence it should be as balanced and secular as possible in all ways to ensure healthy mental and physical development in the important formative years. Surely no-one could disagree with this. It might shock people to know that nearly all selectively religious schools are blatantly breaking the law with respect to the 'School Admissions Code' Both the British Humanist Association and the Fair Admissions Campaign have reported this extensively to Parliament with the result that these civil organisations have been effectively banned from formally challenging school admission arrangements where they are not compliant with the School Admissions Code. The ban, which has been proposed essentially in response to the BHA’s and FAC’s report, has been roundly criticised by a range of prominent figures since it was announced last month. Just yesterday Lord Watson wrote that the move was ‘a clear case of shoot the messenger rather than address the problem’, To save a lot of cut-and-pasting, we urge fabbers to check this out on the British Humanist Association website. This affects all of us at a basic level as another 'thin end of the wedge' . As the UK is still a Christian country , why would anyone be bothered about the admission criteria of selectively religious schools . Religion and Christianity is or should be an important part of people's lives . No one is compelled to send their child to s religious school. Many religious schools achieve higher results than non religious ones . " Accept that the vast majority of them have been shown to be breaking the law and they are paid for mostly by taxpayers money rather than the religious institutions money. | |||
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"It affects us all, you say? How does it affect me? Oh, it just impacts the kind of society we live in and the way the government that represents us operates. So, it's completely irrelevant to you I expect." By the time these children are in a position to be making important decisions, I'll be very old or possibly dead. So I'm questioning the claim that it affects everyone. I can't see how it has any sort of major impact on me. | |||
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"School and the education systems in general is, always has been and ever will be an important part of human development. Hence it should be as balanced and secular as possible in all ways to ensure healthy mental and physical development in the important formative years. Surely no-one could disagree with this. It might shock people to know that nearly all selectively religious schools are blatantly breaking the law with respect to the 'School Admissions Code' Both the British Humanist Association and the Fair Admissions Campaign have reported this extensively to Parliament with the result that these civil organisations have been effectively banned from formally challenging school admission arrangements where they are not compliant with the School Admissions Code. The ban, which has been proposed essentially in response to the BHA’s and FAC’s report, has been roundly criticised by a range of prominent figures since it was announced last month. Just yesterday Lord Watson wrote that the move was ‘a clear case of shoot the messenger rather than address the problem’, To save a lot of cut-and-pasting, we urge fabbers to check this out on the British Humanist Association website. This affects all of us at a basic level as another 'thin end of the wedge' . As the UK is still a Christian country , why would anyone be bothered about the admission criteria of selectively religious schools . Religion and Christianity is or should be an important part of people's lives . No one is compelled to send their child to s religious school. Many religious schools achieve higher results than non religious ones . Accept that the vast majority of them have been shown to be breaking the law and they are paid for mostly by taxpayers money rather than the religious institutions money. " . If they are paid by tax payers money it makes no difference as a child still has to be educated some where so there is no additional cost to the tax payer . Parents sending their children to these schools appreciate high standards . Why should non believers be allowed to attend ?.. | |||
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"School and the education systems in general is, always has been and ever will be an important part of human development. Hence it should be as balanced and secular as possible in all ways to ensure healthy mental and physical development in the important formative years. Surely no-one could disagree with this. It might shock people to know that nearly all selectively religious schools are blatantly breaking the law with respect to the 'School Admissions Code' Both the British Humanist Association and the Fair Admissions Campaign have reported this extensively to Parliament with the result that these civil organisations have been effectively banned from formally challenging school admission arrangements where they are not compliant with the School Admissions Code. The ban, which has been proposed essentially in response to the BHA’s and FAC’s report, has been roundly criticised by a range of prominent figures since it was announced last month. Just yesterday Lord Watson wrote that the move was ‘a clear case of shoot the messenger rather than address the problem’, To save a lot of cut-and-pasting, we urge fabbers to check this out on the British Humanist Association website. This affects all of us at a basic level as another 'thin end of the wedge' . As the UK is still a Christian country , why would anyone be bothered about the admission criteria of selectively religious schools . Religion and Christianity is or should be an important part of people's lives . No one is compelled to send their child to s religious school. Many religious schools achieve higher results than non religious ones . Accept that the vast majority of them have been shown to be breaking the law and they are paid for mostly by taxpayers money rather than the religious institutions money. . If they are paid by tax payers money it makes no difference as a child still has to be educated some where so there is no additional cost to the tax payer . Parents sending their children to these schools appreciate high standards . Why should non believers be allowed to attend ?.." By implication, parents who send their children to non-faith schools don't want better standards for their children? I think those who send their children to 'bog standard' primary schools realise that education is one thing, one's faith and belief system is another. I want my children to have a broad and balanced education, not one religion pushed down their throat with the result that my children can't think for themselves. RE education is, on some ways, more fundamental than English and Maths as it establishes ones belief system and values. Indeed the government is considering rebranding it religious and moral education. This is something I have voiced my dissention on as there is again the implication that to be moral, one must be religious. Hardly the case. In terms of the UK being a Christian country, try teaching a class of children of varying faiths and then see where the knowledge base is for those who deem themselves to be Christian as opposed to Hindu, Muslim, Jewish or Sikh. Children from these other faiths, even from an early age, often have a secure knowledge not only of their festivals but of the belief systems upon which they are based. Attendance at a church wedding or baptism is not the same as being a Christian. I know this partly because my seventeen year old has recently, by his own choice, become a Christian. As an agnostic myself, I broadly brought my children up in the Christian tradition but we had not been to church. I dutifully took him to a number of local ones, at the age of sixteen, so he could find himself. I would term him a Christian as he goes weekly, reads his bible daily and now has a good knowledge of the scriptures and uses them as the basis for his decision and choices in life. | |||
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"Ban Drama schools too..... Because lets face it teaching kids that tap dancing is a life skill must surely rank as a crime against humanity .... " To be honest about 50% of what is taught at secondary level is obsolete for the majority of pupils. Turning 30 soon and still haven't need to calculate the circumference of anything, not suffering because I can't remember how rocks are formed and haven't painted a picture in a decade and not missing it | |||
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"Ban Drama schools too..... Because lets face it teaching kids that tap dancing is a life skill must surely rank as a crime against humanity .... To be honest about 50% of what is taught at secondary level is obsolete for the majority of pupils. Turning 30 soon and still haven't need to calculate the circumference of anything, not suffering because I can't remember how rocks are formed and haven't painted a picture in a decade and not missing it " It's about all of the other things you learn by the by, I think .... as the mother of two boys who have recently left secondary school, one for travelling and uni after a levels and the other to pursue a professional sports career after GCSEs ... many life skills and lessons in all of that | |||
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"Ban Drama schools too..... Because lets face it teaching kids that tap dancing is a life skill must surely rank as a crime against humanity .... To be honest about 50% of what is taught at secondary level is obsolete for the majority of pupils. Turning 30 soon and still haven't need to calculate the circumference of anything, not suffering because I can't remember how rocks are formed and haven't painted a picture in a decade and not missing it " In my industry calculating circumference can be the difference between life and death for 100's of crewmembers and it's a not an option to get it wrong.... Same goes for understanding rock formation and geology......  | |||
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"School and the education systems in general is, always has been and ever will be an important part of human development. Hence it should be as balanced and secular as possible in all ways to ensure healthy mental and physical development in the important formative years. Surely no-one could disagree with this. It might shock people to know that nearly all selectively religious schools are blatantly breaking the law with respect to the 'School Admissions Code' Both the British Humanist Association and the Fair Admissions Campaign have reported this extensively to Parliament with the result that these civil organisations have been effectively banned from formally challenging school admission arrangements where they are not compliant with the School Admissions Code. The ban, which has been proposed essentially in response to the BHA’s and FAC’s report, has been roundly criticised by a range of prominent figures since it was announced last month. Just yesterday Lord Watson wrote that the move was ‘a clear case of shoot the messenger rather than address the problem’, To save a lot of cut-and-pasting, we urge fabbers to check this out on the British Humanist Association website. This affects all of us at a basic level as another 'thin end of the wedge' Funny how you combined balanced and secular in the same sentence, as Catholic school or other religious schools were unbalanced due to the fact that they aren't secular. " Agreed | |||
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"Ban Drama schools too..... Because lets face it teaching kids that tap dancing is a life skill must surely rank as a crime against humanity .... To be honest about 50% of what is taught at secondary level is obsolete for the majority of pupils. Turning 30 soon and still haven't need to calculate the circumference of anything, not suffering because I can't remember how rocks are formed and haven't painted a picture in a decade and not missing it In my industry calculating circumference can be the difference between life and death for 100's of crewmembers and it's a not an option to get it wrong.... Same goes for understanding rock formation and geology...... "Agreed with regard to math and geology and to boot drama schools can foster great musicians, poets, writers and actors - and add growth as well as expression for culture Mwah | |||
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"Ban Drama schools too..... Because lets face it teaching kids that tap dancing is a life skill must surely rank as a crime against humanity .... To be honest about 50% of what is taught at secondary level is obsolete for the majority of pupils. Turning 30 soon and still haven't need to calculate the circumference of anything, not suffering because I can't remember how rocks are formed and haven't painted a picture in a decade and not missing it In my industry calculating circumference can be the difference between life and death for 100's of crewmembers and it's a not an option to get it wrong.... Same goes for understanding rock formation and geology...... "Good for you, in my industry you are a bit fucking useless if you can't read a balance sheet and a cash flow statement... doesn't mean it should be taught to everyone... | |||
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"Ban Drama schools too..... Because lets face it teaching kids that tap dancing is a life skill must surely rank as a crime against humanity .... To be honest about 50% of what is taught at secondary level is obsolete for the majority of pupils. Turning 30 soon and still haven't need to calculate the circumference of anything, not suffering because I can't remember how rocks are formed and haven't painted a picture in a decade and not missing it It's about all of the other things you learn by the by, I think .... as the mother of two boys who have recently left secondary school, one for travelling and uni after a levels and the other to pursue a professional sports career after GCSEs ... many life skills and lessons in all of that" Because if we weren't at school then we wouldn't learn any of that stuff any other way? The real purpose of school is as a national babysitting service, keeping teachers employed and then a tedious link to education. Nothing about the school day is structured around the students. It's scientific fact that teenagers function better from mid morning to late afternoon but school won't start then because that would inconvenience everyone else. Most university graduates are border line useless for the first two years of their career until they complete some kind of graduate course that gives them skills employers actually need. By all means learn for the sake of learning if you want to, but school / uni is tedious torture for those of us who actually want to achieve something more than collecting qualifications. | |||
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"Ban Drama schools too..... Because lets face it teaching kids that tap dancing is a life skill must surely rank as a crime against humanity .... To be honest about 50% of what is taught at secondary level is obsolete for the majority of pupils. Turning 30 soon and still haven't need to calculate the circumference of anything, not suffering because I can't remember how rocks are formed and haven't painted a picture in a decade and not missing it In my industry calculating circumference can be the difference between life and death for 100's of crewmembers and it's a not an option to get it wrong.... Same goes for understanding rock formation and geology......
Good for you, in my industry you are a bit fucking useless if you can't read a balance sheet and a cash flow statement... doesn't mean it should be taught to everyone... "But surely its vital to give to kids a educational background that will provide them with knowledge and life skills too potentially match the various requirement sought by the largest range of prospective employers and the demands of living in a multicultural society ..... PS my Drama school quips were just intended as a bit of fun...and not to be taken seriously.... | |||
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"Ban Drama schools too..... Because lets face it teaching kids that tap dancing is a life skill must surely rank as a crime against humanity .... To be honest about 50% of what is taught at secondary level is obsolete for the majority of pupils. Turning 30 soon and still haven't need to calculate the circumference of anything, not suffering because I can't remember how rocks are formed and haven't painted a picture in a decade and not missing it In my industry calculating circumference can be the difference between life and death for 100's of crewmembers and it's a not an option to get it wrong.... Same goes for understanding rock formation and geology......
Good for you, in my industry you are a bit fucking useless if you can't read a balance sheet and a cash flow statement... doesn't mean it should be taught to everyone...
But surely its vital to give to kids a educational background that will provide them with knowledge and life skills too potentially match the various requirement sought by the largest range of prospective employers and the demands of living in a multicultural society .....
"Yeah I agree with that, I'm just saying that the current system fails miserably at doing so | |||
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"Ban Drama schools too..... Because lets face it teaching kids that tap dancing is a life skill must surely rank as a crime against humanity .... To be honest about 50% of what is taught at secondary level is obsolete for the majority of pupils. Turning 30 soon and still haven't need to calculate the circumference of anything, not suffering because I can't remember how rocks are formed and haven't painted a picture in a decade and not missing it It's about all of the other things you learn by the by, I think .... as the mother of two boys who have recently left secondary school, one for travelling and uni after a levels and the other to pursue a professional sports career after GCSEs ... many life skills and lessons in all of that Because if we weren't at school then we wouldn't learn any of that stuff any other way? The real purpose of school is as a national babysitting service, keeping teachers employed and then a tedious link to education. Nothing about the school day is structured around the students. It's scientific fact that teenagers function better from mid morning to late afternoon but school won't start then because that would inconvenience everyone else. Most university graduates are border line useless for the first two years of their career until they complete some kind of graduate course that gives them skills employers actually need. By all means learn for the sake of learning if you want to, but school / uni is tedious torture for those of us who actually want to achieve something more than collecting qualifications. " Totally disagree, but then I am the mother of teenagers, so what would I know? Society is changing so much that most in education know that all learning as in academic is going to be redundant when these children we are teaching reach adulthood, its the skills and dispositions for being successful in life that are needed, be they learning skills, social skills or just plain how to get along skills. The government has imposed a knowledge based curriculum when what is needed is skills based so we can apply the skills is a work that is changing so rapidly that we don't have a clue what it will look like. I think about how much technology has changed since I went to school, but I have transferable skills which means I have had three career changes and managed to succeed in all three careers. My boys acquired the skills of time and project management, budgeting, team work and interpersonal skills. I personally dont think school and education is just about teaching children and young adults to be good at doing their job ...we aren't necessarily breeding workers, but whole human beings. The world of work will change so much anyway, but any human is more than the sum of their ability to do a job ... why should what employers want be more important than creating a whole person. If that were the case, why read books, go to the theatre or go on trips which give some children the only opportunity they get to experience the world around them outside of the virtual world of call of duty? | |||
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"Ban Drama schools too..... Because lets face it teaching kids that tap dancing is a life skill must surely rank as a crime against humanity .... To be honest about 50% of what is taught at secondary level is obsolete for the majority of pupils. Turning 30 soon and still haven't need to calculate the circumference of anything, not suffering because I can't remember how rocks are formed and haven't painted a picture in a decade and not missing it " How, though, if you do not teach a broad syllabus, can you work out what individual children enjoy and have an aptitude for? How could they determine the direction in which they choose to go in later years? School taught me I love science, maths and technical subjects, that I'm good at English and that I don't much like history and geography. I also found I liked practical subjects like woodwork and sewing but wanted to concentrate on academic subjects for exams. Although I got good grades in all the subjects I took, the ones I most enjoyed and was best at helped decide which A levels I took and my A levels decided my degree subject. School was where I worked out a lot of my interests and aptitudes. | |||
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"Ban Drama schools too..... Because lets face it teaching kids that tap dancing is a life skill must surely rank as a crime against humanity .... To be honest about 50% of what is taught at secondary level is obsolete for the majority of pupils. Turning 30 soon and still haven't need to calculate the circumference of anything, not suffering because I can't remember how rocks are formed and haven't painted a picture in a decade and not missing it In my industry calculating circumference can be the difference between life and death for 100's of crewmembers and it's a not an option to get it wrong.... Same goes for understanding rock formation and geology......
Good for you, in my industry you are a bit fucking useless if you can't read a balance sheet and a cash flow statement... doesn't mean it should be taught to everyone...
But surely its vital to give to kids a educational background that will provide them with knowledge and life skills too potentially match the various requirement sought by the largest range of prospective employers and the demands of living in a multicultural society .....
Yeah I agree with that, I'm just saying that the current system fails miserably at doing so"I'm from a generation that was taught be teachers who had spent time working outwith the confines of the educational environment..... They were able to use that experience too deliver education and life-skill based on their experience in the same real world they were preparing us to enter... I feel todays system can suffer sometimes when it fail to provide teachers with those credentials | |||
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"Went to School in the 5,s 60,s we had Assembly every morning Sang hymns Said prayers Because we were Christians,s. None of that know it upsets other faith,s " Once I was old enough to understand religion and make up my own mind, I stopped singing hymns and saying prayers because I didn't believe in it. I don't think any hymns or prayers should have a place in schools. | |||
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"Ban Drama schools too..... Because lets face it teaching kids that tap dancing is a life skill must surely rank as a crime against humanity .... To be honest about 50% of what is taught at secondary level is obsolete for the majority of pupils. Turning 30 soon and still haven't need to calculate the circumference of anything, not suffering because I can't remember how rocks are formed and haven't painted a picture in a decade and not missing it It's about all of the other things you learn by the by, I think .... as the mother of two boys who have recently left secondary school, one for travelling and uni after a levels and the other to pursue a professional sports career after GCSEs ... many life skills and lessons in all of that Because if we weren't at school then we wouldn't learn any of that stuff any other way? The real purpose of school is as a national babysitting service, keeping teachers employed and then a tedious link to education. Nothing about the school day is structured around the students. It's scientific fact that teenagers function better from mid morning to late afternoon but school won't start then because that would inconvenience everyone else. Most university graduates are border line useless for the first two years of their career until they complete some kind of graduate course that gives them skills employers actually need. By all means learn for the sake of learning if you want to, but school / uni is tedious torture for those of us who actually want to achieve something more than collecting qualifications. Totally disagree, but then I am the mother of teenagers, so what would I know? Society is changing so much that most in education know that all learning as in academic is going to be redundant when these children we are teaching reach adulthood, its the skills and dispositions for being successful in life that are needed, be they learning skills, social skills or just plain how to get along skills. The government has imposed a knowledge based curriculum when what is needed is skills based so we can apply the skills is a work that is changing so rapidly that we don't have a clue what it will look like. I think about how much technology has changed since I went to school, but I have transferable skills which means I have had three career changes and managed to succeed in all three careers. My boys acquired the skills of time and project management, budgeting, team work and interpersonal skills. I personally dont think school and education is just about teaching children and young adults to be good at doing their job ...we aren't necessarily breeding workers, but whole human beings. The world of work will change so much anyway, but any human is more than the sum of their ability to do a job ... why should what employers want be more important than creating a whole person. If that were the case, why read books, go to the theatre or go on trips which give some children the only opportunity they get to experience the world around them outside of the virtual world of call of duty?" If you feel school achieves that then that's where i disagree with you. I think we have one of the world's most selfish and anti-social cultures going. Plenty of good things about our country but the average standard of social skills are not one of them in my opinion. | |||
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"Ban Drama schools too..... Because lets face it teaching kids that tap dancing is a life skill must surely rank as a crime against humanity .... To be honest about 50% of what is taught at secondary level is obsolete for the majority of pupils. Turning 30 soon and still haven't need to calculate the circumference of anything, not suffering because I can't remember how rocks are formed and haven't painted a picture in a decade and not missing it It's about all of the other things you learn by the by, I think .... as the mother of two boys who have recently left secondary school, one for travelling and uni after a levels and the other to pursue a professional sports career after GCSEs ... many life skills and lessons in all of that Because if we weren't at school then we wouldn't learn any of that stuff any other way? The real purpose of school is as a national babysitting service, keeping teachers employed and then a tedious link to education. Nothing about the school day is structured around the students. It's scientific fact that teenagers function better from mid morning to late afternoon but school won't start then because that would inconvenience everyone else. Most university graduates are border line useless for the first two years of their career until they complete some kind of graduate course that gives them skills employers actually need. By all means learn for the sake of learning if you want to, but school / uni is tedious torture for those of us who actually want to achieve something more than collecting qualifications. Totally disagree, but then I am the mother of teenagers, so what would I know? Society is changing so much that most in education know that all learning as in academic is going to be redundant when these children we are teaching reach adulthood, its the skills and dispositions for being successful in life that are needed, be they learning skills, social skills or just plain how to get along skills. The government has imposed a knowledge based curriculum when what is needed is skills based so we can apply the skills is a work that is changing so rapidly that we don't have a clue what it will look like. I think about how much technology has changed since I went to school, but I have transferable skills which means I have had three career changes and managed to succeed in all three careers. My boys acquired the skills of time and project management, budgeting, team work and interpersonal skills. I personally dont think school and education is just about teaching children and young adults to be good at doing their job ...we aren't necessarily breeding workers, but whole human beings. The world of work will change so much anyway, but any human is more than the sum of their ability to do a job ... why should what employers want be more important than creating a whole person. If that were the case, why read books, go to the theatre or go on trips which give some children the only opportunity they get to experience the world around them outside of the virtual world of call of duty? If you feel school achieves that then that's where i disagree with you. I think we have one of the world's most selfish and anti-social cultures going. Plenty of good things about our country but the average standard of social skills are not one of them in my opinion. " Schools dont achieve it because if the constraints of a curriculum that is knowledge based as opposed to skills based, and I am not talking about skills that get us ready for employment, but social skills, learning skills etc. Difficult to give enough time to within the constraints of an overly academic curriculum but the other main problem is the issues around closing the gap, so many of certain types of children come to school with such poor basic skills that they wont be able to function in society .... they wont ever be empowered and articulate without them. | |||
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"Ban Drama schools too..... Because lets face it teaching kids that tap dancing is a life skill must surely rank as a crime against humanity .... To be honest about 50% of what is taught at secondary level is obsolete for the majority of pupils. Turning 30 soon and still haven't need to calculate the circumference of anything, not suffering because I can't remember how rocks are formed and haven't painted a picture in a decade and not missing it How, though, if you do not teach a broad syllabus, can you work out what individual children enjoy and have an aptitude for? " It's not the principle that's the problem, it's how long you allow that to go on for. They can't drop any subjects until they are 13 ffs, in yester years people started their careers at 13!! (albeit under an apprenticeship) now it's at least 21 for a graduate. Did we get dumber or something? | |||
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"Ban Drama schools too..... Because lets face it teaching kids that tap dancing is a life skill must surely rank as a crime against humanity .... To be honest about 50% of what is taught at secondary level is obsolete for the majority of pupils. Turning 30 soon and still haven't need to calculate the circumference of anything, not suffering because I can't remember how rocks are formed and haven't painted a picture in a decade and not missing it How, though, if you do not teach a broad syllabus, can you work out what individual children enjoy and have an aptitude for? It's not the principle that's the problem, it's how long you allow that to go on for. They can't drop any subjects until they are 13 ffs, in yester years people started their careers at 13!! (albeit under an apprenticeship) now it's at least 21 for a graduate. Did we get dumber or something?" Quite the opposite. We know more so there's more t' learn. | |||
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"Ban Drama schools too..... Because lets face it teaching kids that tap dancing is a life skill must surely rank as a crime against humanity .... To be honest about 50% of what is taught at secondary level is obsolete for the majority of pupils. Turning 30 soon and still haven't need to calculate the circumference of anything, not suffering because I can't remember how rocks are formed and haven't painted a picture in a decade and not missing it How, though, if you do not teach a broad syllabus, can you work out what individual children enjoy and have an aptitude for? It's not the principle that's the problem, it's how long you allow that to go on for. They can't drop any subjects until they are 13 ffs, in yester years people started their careers at 13!! (albeit under an apprenticeship) now it's at least 21 for a graduate. Did we get dumber or something? Quite the opposite. We know more so there's more t' learn. " As I said, where would I be without all those lessons on circumferences and rocks... | |||
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"Ban Drama schools too..... Because lets face it teaching kids that tap dancing is a life skill must surely rank as a crime against humanity .... To be honest about 50% of what is taught at secondary level is obsolete for the majority of pupils. Turning 30 soon and still haven't need to calculate the circumference of anything, not suffering because I can't remember how rocks are formed and haven't painted a picture in a decade and not missing it How, though, if you do not teach a broad syllabus, can you work out what individual children enjoy and have an aptitude for? It's not the principle that's the problem, it's how long you allow that to go on for. They can't drop any subjects until they are 13 ffs, in yester years people started their careers at 13!! (albeit under an apprenticeship) now it's at least 21 for a graduate. Did we get dumber or something? Quite the opposite. We know more so there's more t' learn. As I said, where would I be without all those lessons on circumferences and rocks... " Well actually you would be cold and stuck at home in a poorly constructed house ! Because although you cannot fathom the usefulness of geology and geometry in your life , luckily many do and it is that knowledge that permits your modern life ,safe transport, energy supply , water .roads house building and materials Now tell me the function to society teaching anyone that Noah was the father to all humanity ? | |||
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"Ban Drama schools too..... Because lets face it teaching kids that tap dancing is a life skill must surely rank as a crime against humanity .... To be honest about 50% of what is taught at secondary level is obsolete for the majority of pupils. Turning 30 soon and still haven't need to calculate the circumference of anything, not suffering because I can't remember how rocks are formed and haven't painted a picture in a decade and not missing it How, though, if you do not teach a broad syllabus, can you work out what individual children enjoy and have an aptitude for? It's not the principle that's the problem, it's how long you allow that to go on for. They can't drop any subjects until they are 13 ffs, in yester years people started their careers at 13!! (albeit under an apprenticeship) now it's at least 21 for a graduate. Did we get dumber or something? Quite the opposite. We know more so there's more t' learn. As I said, where would I be without all those lessons on circumferences and rocks... Well actually you would be cold and stuck at home in a poorly constructed house ! Because although you cannot fathom the usefulness of geology and geometry in your life , luckily many do and it is that knowledge that permits your modern life ,safe transport, energy supply , water .roads house building and materials Now tell me the function to society teaching anyone that Noah was the father to all humanity ?" Making sure you build your house so there are no leaks in the roof? The importance of living things and planning ahead? There are lots of messages in every story ... | |||
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"Ban Drama schools too..... Because lets face it teaching kids that tap dancing is a life skill must surely rank as a crime against humanity .... To be honest about 50% of what is taught at secondary level is obsolete for the majority of pupils. Turning 30 soon and still haven't need to calculate the circumference of anything, not suffering because I can't remember how rocks are formed and haven't painted a picture in a decade and not missing it How, though, if you do not teach a broad syllabus, can you work out what individual children enjoy and have an aptitude for? It's not the principle that's the problem, it's how long you allow that to go on for. They can't drop any subjects until they are 13 ffs, in yester years people started their careers at 13!! (albeit under an apprenticeship) now it's at least 21 for a graduate. Did we get dumber or something? Quite the opposite. We know more so there's more t' learn. As I said, where would I be without all those lessons on circumferences and rocks... Well actually you would be cold and stuck at home in a poorly constructed house ! Because although you cannot fathom the usefulness of geology and geometry in your life , luckily many do and it is that knowledge that permits your modern life ,safe transport, energy supply , water .roads house building and materials Now tell me the function to society teaching anyone that Noah was the father to all humanity ? Making sure you build your house so there are no leaks in the roof? The importance of living things and planning ahead? There are lots of messages in every story ..." Aways be wary of religious apologist's misdirection , it's almost dishonest  ?
Ok the thread was about how faith schools are not exactly cosher with their admission criteria (pun intended) as their exclusions can indeed be shown to go against discrimination laws
And that the teaching of religious text as fact is again an unbalanced indoctrination of our precious future
These Poignant truths about faith schools have been distorted and manipulated to form a false argument regarding the validity of any specific subject upon a child's future, clever huh xx
So in the above example the poster trys to draw us to think we are discussing parallel subjects both with positive merits
If indeed we were discussing the subject of religious texts and their metaphors I'd totally agree, in a secular school I would want to be taught about all the world's religions , their texts their beliefs and the impacts and invite lively discussion with regards the meanings of the metaphors , just as in english we could discuss the three little pigs and what it has to say about various building materials and their practicality in the real world .
We must not however teach that the three little pigs existed beyond doubt and that the one piggy who avoided the wolf's jaws is the father pig of all piggies on the planet
And that's why the above was dishonest trying to suggest the faith school teaches the religious text as an un proven metaphor as a subject about, they don't
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" And that's why the above was dishonest trying to suggest the faith school teaches the religious text as an un proven metaphor as a subject about, they don't " How do you know? Do you teach in a faith school? Have you visited all the faith schools in the country? Did you attend a faith school? Even when I went to school which is some time ago now, it wasn't what you claim. | |||
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" And that's why the above was dishonest trying to suggest the faith school teaches the religious text as an un proven metaphor as a subject about, they don't How do you know? Do you teach in a faith school? Have you visited all the faith schools in the country? Did you attend a faith school? Even when I went to school which is some time ago now, it wasn't what you claim. " Hmmm twisting again I'd suggest the thing that makes a faith school , a faith school By definition is absolutely that If a faith school did not teach that it's belief is the correct one it would not be a faith school Your faith school sounds just my school , so what made it a faith school? Maybe you will remember some of the other things they told you that make it different from my schooling It would be my opinion that the correlation between faith school and good education is wrongly apportioned to the faith elements I'd suggest it has a lot more to do with money and aspiration of parents . I think you will find UK Christianity can be witnessed in a particular, not the poorest, social demographic | |||
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" And that's why the above was dishonest trying to suggest the faith school teaches the religious text as an un proven metaphor as a subject about, they don't How do you know? Do you teach in a faith school? Have you visited all the faith schools in the country? Did you attend a faith school? Even when I went to school which is some time ago now, it wasn't what you claim. Hmmm twisting again I'd suggest the thing that makes a faith school , a faith school By definition is absolutely that If a faith school did not teach that it's belief is the correct one it would not be a faith school Your faith school sounds just my school , so what made it a faith school? Maybe you will remember some of the other things they told you that make it different from my schooling It would be my opinion that the correlation between faith school and good education is wrongly apportioned to the faith elements I'd suggest it has a lot more to do with money and aspiration of parents . I think you will find UK Christianity can be witnessed in a particular, not the poorest, social demographic " I think you'd be wrong on that actually, certainly when it comes to Catholicism. It doesn't tend to be the richer sections of society at all, not least among recent European immigrants who are often Catholic. In the city where I live, the Catholic schools are high achieving schools despite being in some of the poorest catchment areas. I've looked up the stats for my old school. 35% pupils entitled to free school meals, compared to a national average of 28%. The 2 other faith secondaries in the city, 33% and 40%. Pupils with English as an additional language, about 1 in 5. Thinking about where most of the Catholic primaries are located, it will be the same. The demographics don't point to it being about rich parents and a particular rich demographic. I'm not twisting anything, you're making a number of completely unsubstantiated claims. | |||
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". As the UK is still a Christian country , why would anyone be bothered about the admission criteria of selectively religious schools . Religion and Christianity is or should be an important part of people's lives . No one is compelled to send their child to s religious school. Many religious schools achieve higher results than non religious ones . What bollocks. The only reason church attendance hasn't dies out in this country is thanks to immigrants boosting the numbers. Even with them it's a fucking big stretch to still claim this is a 'Christian nation'.. It is surprising then than many people still want a church wedding or funeral and also want their children to be baptised . . I would be surprised if immigration had any real impact on church attendance . Many people are very gratefull for the standards achieved by church schools " I agree about baptisms but like weddings for many people it's just an event and you'll never see most of those there at a church for the remainder of the year. It's also true that the standards at schools with a religious bias are good. But just like it's a farce that Mummy and Daddy attend church for a few weeks to ensure their kid can qualify for entry, it's also a farce to bang on about this country still being a "Christian country". It ain't. | |||
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"Ban Drama schools too..... Because lets face it teaching kids that tap dancing is a life skill must surely rank as a crime against humanity .... To be honest about 50% of what is taught at secondary level is obsolete for the majority of pupils. Turning 30 soon and still haven't need to calculate the circumference of anything, not suffering because I can't remember how rocks are formed and haven't painted a picture in a decade and not missing it How, though, if you do not teach a broad syllabus, can you work out what individual children enjoy and have an aptitude for? It's not the principle that's the problem, it's how long you allow that to go on for. They can't drop any subjects until they are 13 ffs, in yester years people started their careers at 13!! (albeit under an apprenticeship) now it's at least 21 for a graduate. Did we get dumber or something? Quite the opposite. We know more so there's more t' learn. As I said, where would I be without all those lessons on circumferences and rocks... Well actually you would be cold and stuck at home in a poorly constructed house ! Because although you cannot fathom the usefulness of geology and geometry in your life , luckily many do and it is that knowledge that permits your modern life ,safe transport, energy supply , water .roads house building and materials Now tell me the function to society teaching anyone that Noah was the father to all humanity ? Making sure you build your house so there are no leaks in the roof? The importance of living things and planning ahead? There are lots of messages in every story ... Aways be wary of religious apologist's misdirection , it's almost dishonest ?
Ok the thread was about how faith schools are not exactly cosher with their admission criteria (pun intended) as their exclusions can indeed be shown to go against discrimination laws
And that the teaching of religious text as fact is again an unbalanced indoctrination of our precious future
These Poignant truths about faith schools have been distorted and manipulated to form a false argument regarding the validity of any specific subject upon a child's future, clever huh xx
So in the above example the poster trys to draw us to think we are discussing parallel subjects both with positive merits
If indeed we were discussing the subject of religious texts and their metaphors I'd totally agree, in a secular school I would want to be taught about all the world's religions , their texts their beliefs and the impacts and invite lively discussion with regards the meanings of the metaphors , just as in english we could discuss the three little pigs and what it has to say about various building materials and their practicality in the real world .
We must not however teach that the three little pigs existed beyond doubt and that the one piggy who avoided the wolf's jaws is the father pig of all piggies on the planet
And that's why the above was dishonest trying to suggest the faith school teaches the religious text as an un proven metaphor as a subject about, they don't
"I am not a religious apologist, if you knew me you would laugh at such a suggestion BUT I have a good knowledge of how RE is taught in schools across the board, and the curriculum and how it is taught, rather than one student on one work placement. Ridiculous generalisations like yours, based on limited knowledge don't do your 'cause' any good .... try thinking about it... and you might make more impact. | |||
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" And that's why the above was dishonest trying to suggest the faith school teaches the religious text as an un proven metaphor as a subject about, they don't How do you know? Do you teach in a faith school? Have you visited all the faith schools in the country? Did you attend a faith school? Even when I went to school which is some time ago now, it wasn't what you claim. " Ruby, I am not talking about faith schools either, because my knowledge is of how the RE curriculum is delivered in ordinary primary schools, like the ones in my area, where half of the population are Muslim, and, of course, Islam, Judaism and Christianity share the stories of the old testament. Good teachers of RE dont let on their own faith and one wouldn't be able to guess at it either as they value and education about everyone's beliefs and don't deride, but explore | |||
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"Although RE is only a part of how religion is taught in schools. Daily worship, prayers at meal times, assemblies etc. etc. etc." I don't know of many schools that have these other things regularly. On another note, I decided, despite being approached by a local faith school in order to apply for a place for my daughter there (her friend easy going, I was virtually assured a place for her because she is so bright) that I wouldn't because of my belief system. I wanted her to have an enquiring mind and the freedom to choose, plus even though she went to church with her friend and despite her recently converted Christian brother, none of my children were brought up in the Christian faith. I talked to her about some of her fundamental beliefs and ours, as a family and she saw that she wouldn't fit in there. I like a debate about these things. I don't like the assumption that children at faith schools will get a better education though ... as it should be fair for all, or even fairer for those who dont have the access at home ... as mentioned before, much focus in education these days is on 'closing the gap' and I am not sure how faith schools do that ... but only some of us in this society believe we have a responsibility to help others. Interesting, for me, given that many of the world's faiths are based on helping others less fortunate, that some want to turn our back on them and set up faith schools which exclude them ... | |||
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"Although RE is only a part of how religion is taught in schools. Daily worship, prayers at meal times, assemblies etc. etc. etc. I don't know of many schools that have these other things regularly. On another note, I decided, despite being approached by a local faith school in order to apply for a place for my daughter there (her friend easy going, I was virtually assured a place for her because she is so bright) that I wouldn't because of my belief system. I wanted her to have an enquiring mind and the freedom to choose, plus even though she went to church with her friend and despite her recently converted Christian brother, none of my children were brought up in the Christian faith. I talked to her about some of her fundamental beliefs and ours, as a family and she saw that she wouldn't fit in there. I like a debate about these things. I don't like the assumption that children at faith schools will get a better education though ... as it should be fair for all, or even fairer for those who dont have the access at home ... as mentioned before, much focus in education these days is on 'closing the gap' and I am not sure how faith schools do that ... but only some of us in this society believe we have a responsibility to help others. Interesting, for me, given that many of the world's faiths are based on helping others less fortunate, that some want to turn our back on them and set up faith schools which exclude them ..." a school approached YOU to request that your child attend their school because she's so intelligent? | |||
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"I'm not even that young, but the catholic schools I attended in the 90s were genuinely not what the stereotypes claim. Yes we were taught about Catholicism, but also a huge amount about other denominations and other religions. A bit about humanism too. The ethos was far more about a Christian school in the sense of tolerance, forgiveness and understanding between pupils and between pupils and staff than it was about ramming the catechism down our throat. Compared to what my friends at non-faith schools were learning and doing, I feel like going to a faith school, which automatically means there's a level of importance placed on the subject of RE, meant we had more opportunity to learn about other religions, and discuss attitudes to topics like abortion, euthanasia etc. In some secular schools RE can be relegated to an afterthought and ticking a box and that's a missed opportunity to develop debating skills and discuss key ethical and moral issues that might be prevalent in the media at the time. As for admissions, you would only choose to send your children to a faith school if you're either of that faith or agree with it, so I don't see anything wrong at all in selecting on that basis. It generally makes for a far better mix of pupils than selecting on whether the parents are pretending to live in the catchment area or the kids have been tutored to pass a test. " | |||
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"Although RE is only a part of how religion is taught in schools. Daily worship, prayers at meal times, assemblies etc. etc. etc. I don't know of many schools that have these other things regularly. On another note, I decided, despite being approached by a local faith school in order to apply for a place for my daughter there (her friend easy going, I was virtually assured a place for her because she is so bright) that I wouldn't because of my belief system. I wanted her to have an enquiring mind and the freedom to choose, plus even though she went to church with her friend and despite her recently converted Christian brother, none of my children were brought up in the Christian faith. I talked to her about some of her fundamental beliefs and ours, as a family and she saw that she wouldn't fit in there. I like a debate about these things. I don't like the assumption that children at faith schools will get a better education though ... as it should be fair for all, or even fairer for those who dont have the access at home ... as mentioned before, much focus in education these days is on 'closing the gap' and I am not sure how faith schools do that ... but only some of us in this society believe we have a responsibility to help others. Interesting, for me, given that many of the world's faiths are based on helping others less fortunate, that some want to turn our back on them and set up faith schools which exclude them ... a school approached YOU to request that your child attend their school because she's so intelligent?" Her friend was going and the mother was involved in the selection panel and said she would get in .... despite us not going to church etc, there would not be any problems. I wasn't interested, but in a nutshell, although it wasn't officially the school, we were approached | |||
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"faith based schools are inspected by the relevant faith based organisation in addition to OFSTED - so you'll find those additional practises in most faith based schools." It wasn't clear from your post that you were referring to faith schools. | |||
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"faith based schools are inspected by the relevant faith based organisation in addition to OFSTED - so you'll find those additional practises in most faith based schools. It wasn't clear from your post that you were referring to faith schools." that's the topic innit?! | |||
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"Her friend was going and the mother was involved in the selection panel and said she would get in .... despite us not going to church etc, there would not be any problems. I wasn't interested, but in a nutshell, although it wasn't officially the school, we were approached" well let's just say that would be highly unusual - in every respect. | |||
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"I'm against such restrictions against reporting etc. And coming to the conclusion that indoctrination of religion onto children is child abuse. I'd like to see all schools run without religion, except for when some cultural education is needed." I agree totally, my wife is Catholic and as such our children are attending our local Catholic school. Whilst their academic standards are excellent I do object to the brainwashing of my children. Faith and religious belief should be chosen, not enforced. We are currently experiencing a global problem with ISIS terrorising and murdering those who don't adhere to their ideals. I'm not suggesting that all people who follow a particular faith are fanatics but perhaps we should not condone the "grooming" of our children by religious fanatics. Rant over! | |||
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"Ban Drama schools too..... Because lets face it teaching kids that tap dancing is a life skill must surely rank as a crime against humanity .... To be honest about 50% of what is taught at secondary level is obsolete for the majority of pupils. Turning 30 soon and still haven't need to calculate the circumference of anything, not suffering because I can't remember how rocks are formed and haven't painted a picture in a decade and not missing it How, though, if you do not teach a broad syllabus, can you work out what individual children enjoy and have an aptitude for? It's not the principle that's the problem, it's how long you allow that to go on for. They can't drop any subjects until they are 13 ffs, in yester years people started their careers at 13!! (albeit under an apprenticeship) now it's at least 21 for a graduate. Did we get dumber or something? Quite the opposite. We know more so there's more t' learn. As I said, where would I be without all those lessons on circumferences and rocks... Well actually you would be cold and stuck at home in a poorly constructed house ! Because although you cannot fathom the usefulness of geology and geometry in your life , luckily many do and it is that knowledge that permits your modern life ,safe transport, energy supply , water .roads house building and materials Now tell me the function to society teaching anyone that Noah was the father to all humanity ? Making sure you build your house so there are no leaks in the roof? The importance of living things and planning ahead? There are lots of messages in every story ... Aways be wary of religious apologist's misdirection , it's almost dishonest ?
Ok the thread was about how faith schools are not exactly cosher with their admission criteria (pun intended) as their exclusions can indeed be shown to go against discrimination laws
And that the teaching of religious text as fact is again an unbalanced indoctrination of our precious future
These Poignant truths about faith schools have been distorted and manipulated to form a false argument regarding the validity of any specific subject upon a child's future, clever huh xx
So in the above example the poster trys to draw us to think we are discussing parallel subjects both with positive merits
If indeed we were discussing the subject of religious texts and their metaphors I'd totally agree, in a secular school I would want to be taught about all the world's religions , their texts their beliefs and the impacts and invite lively discussion with regards the meanings of the metaphors , just as in english we could discuss the three little pigs and what it has to say about various building materials and their practicality in the real world .
We must not however teach that the three little pigs existed beyond doubt and that the one piggy who avoided the wolf's jaws is the father pig of all piggies on the planet
And that's why the above was dishonest trying to suggest the faith school teaches the religious text as an un proven metaphor as a subject about, they don't
I am not a religious apologist, if you knew me you would laugh at such a suggestion BUT I have a good knowledge of how RE is taught in schools across the board, and the curriculum and how it is taught, rather than one student on one work placement. Ridiculous generalisations like yours, based on limited knowledge don't do your 'cause' any good .... try thinking about it... and you might make more impact. "Sorry reading in context I see you were expressing a point I agree with which is teaching about religion However it was used as a counter quote to my anti Fath school post refering to the teaching of Scripture as fact ? Thus my bite Took your post literally and missed the humour sorry xx | |||
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" And that's why the above was dishonest trying to suggest the faith school teaches the religious text as an un proven metaphor as a subject about, they don't How do you know? Do you teach in a faith school? Have you visited all the faith schools in the country? Did you attend a faith school? Even when I went to school which is some time ago now, it wasn't what you claim. Ruby, I am not talking about faith schools either, because my knowledge is of how the RE curriculum is delivered in ordinary primary schools, like the ones in my area, where half of the population are Muslim, and, of course, Islam, Judaism and Christianity share the stories of the old testament. Good teachers of RE dont let on their own faith and one wouldn't be able to guess at it either as they value and education about everyone's beliefs and don't deride, but explore " Yes I agree with that. And there also seems to be an assumption in this that RE teachers are all automatically religious. I know about 5, and only one identifies with a particular faith. The others are atheist, agnostic or just undecided. Oh, and they all teach in faith schools. | |||
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"I don't think there should be any faith schools. Teaching fairy tales as fact to children has no place in education and I consider it child abuse. If you really must indoctrinate your kids into a fantasy belief system involving imaginary friends, do it on your own time, at your own cost." . Referring to fairy tales seems very odd. As the Bible has survived many generations ,it is hardly relevant and many would think insulting to refer to it as fairy tales | |||
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"I'm against such restrictions against reporting etc. And coming to the conclusion that indoctrination of religion onto children is child abuse. I'd like to see all schools run without religion, except for when some cultural education is needed. I agree totally, my wife is Catholic and as such our children are attending our local Catholic school. Whilst their academic standards are excellent I do object to the brainwashing of my children. Faith and religious belief should be chosen, not enforced. We are currently experiencing a global problem with ISIS terrorising and murdering those who don't adhere to their ideals. I'm not suggesting that all people who follow a particular faith are fanatics but perhaps we should not condone the "grooming" of our children by religious fanatics. Rant over!" "I'm not suggesting all people who follow a particular faith are fanatics" - but if they work in a faith school they are and they're also grooming children? Uh huh... | |||
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"Anyone in this thread mention Vanessa George? Or is that irrelevant for this thread because facts and evidence aren't allowed? " Don't know what the relevance of that is? | |||
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"I don't think there should be any faith schools. Teaching fairy tales as fact to children has no place in education and I consider it child abuse. If you really must indoctrinate your kids into a fantasy belief system involving imaginary friends, do it on your own time, at your own cost." Exactly. | |||
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"Ban Drama schools too..... Because lets face it teaching kids that tap dancing is a life skill must surely rank as a crime against humanity .... To be honest about 50% of what is taught at secondary level is obsolete for the majority of pupils. Turning 30 soon and still haven't need to calculate the circumference of anything, not suffering because I can't remember how rocks are formed and haven't painted a picture in a decade and not missing it How, though, if you do not teach a broad syllabus, can you work out what individual children enjoy and have an aptitude for? It's not the principle that's the problem, it's how long you allow that to go on for. They can't drop any subjects until they are 13 ffs, in yester years people started their careers at 13!! (albeit under an apprenticeship) now it's at least 21 for a graduate. Did we get dumber or something? Quite the opposite. We know more so there's more t' learn. As I said, where would I be without all those lessons on circumferences and rocks... Well actually you would be cold and stuck at home in a poorly constructed house ! Because although you cannot fathom the usefulness of geology and geometry in your life , luckily many do and it is that knowledge that permits your modern life ,safe transport, energy supply , water .roads house building and materials Now tell me the function to society teaching anyone that Noah was the father to all humanity ?" I think you're getting Noah mixed up with Adam. But either way, while some fundamentalist churches teach the stories of the bible as actual truth, most teach a more metaphorical meaning to the stories. It seems to me that those who oppose religion are yet again trying to force their view of the world on everyone and only their beliefs should be allowed to be passed on to the youth of the nation. Many religions tried this approach in the past and it has always ended in failure and often with terrible conflict. People should be allowed to have their children brought up in the faith they chose and that choice should exist for both rich and poor alike. A tolerant society is not one where all have to learn to believe the same but one where all are allowed to believe what they choose and pass those beliefs on, whilst learning to respect others who believe differently. | |||
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"School and the education systems in general is, always has been and ever will be an important part of human development. Hence it should be as balanced and secular as possible in all ways to ensure healthy mental and physical development in the important formative years. Surely no-one could disagree with this. It might shock people to know that nearly all selectively religious schools are blatantly breaking the law with respect to the 'School Admissions Code' Both the British Humanist Association and the Fair Admissions Campaign have reported this extensively to Parliament with the result that these civil organisations have been effectively banned from formally challenging school admission arrangements where they are not compliant with the School Admissions Code. The ban, which has been proposed essentially in response to the BHA’s and FAC’s report, has been roundly criticised by a range of prominent figures since it was announced last month. Just yesterday Lord Watson wrote that the move was ‘a clear case of shoot the messenger rather than address the problem’, To save a lot of cut-and-pasting, we urge fabbers to check this out on the British Humanist Association website. This affects all of us at a basic level as another 'thin end of the wedge' . As the UK is still a Christian country , why would anyone be bothered about the admission criteria of selectively religious schools . Religion and Christianity is or should be an important part of people's lives . No one is compelled to send their child to s religious school. Many religious schools achieve higher results than non religious ones . " Religion should be an important part of the lives of those who choose to follow any particular faith. For those who are not religious, it should be no part of their lives whatsoever. Introduce me to any god, then let me ask why said god lets bad stuff happen unchallenged. If I'm given a satisfactory answer, then hallefrigginglujah! Until then, I think I'll pass. | |||
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"Ban Drama schools too..... Because lets face it teaching kids that tap dancing is a life skill must surely rank as a crime against humanity .... To be honest about 50% of what is taught at secondary level is obsolete for the majority of pupils. Turning 30 soon and still haven't need to calculate the circumference of anything, not suffering because I can't remember how rocks are formed and haven't painted a picture in a decade and not missing it How, though, if you do not teach a broad syllabus, can you work out what individual children enjoy and have an aptitude for? It's not the principle that's the problem, it's how long you allow that to go on for. They can't drop any subjects until they are 13 ffs, in yester years people started their careers at 13!! (albeit under an apprenticeship) now it's at least 21 for a graduate. Did we get dumber or something? Quite the opposite. We know more so there's more t' learn. As I said, where would I be without all those lessons on circumferences and rocks... Well actually you would be cold and stuck at home in a poorly constructed house ! Because although you cannot fathom the usefulness of geology and geometry in your life , luckily many do and it is that knowledge that permits your modern life ,safe transport, energy supply , water .roads house building and materials Now tell me the function to society teaching anyone that Noah was the father to all humanity ? I think you're getting Noah mixed up with Adam. But either way, while some fundamentalist churches teach the stories of the bible as actual truth, most teach a more metaphorical meaning to the stories. It seems to me that those who oppose religion are yet again trying to force their view of the world on everyone and only their beliefs should be allowed to be passed on to the youth of the nation. Many religions tried this approach in the past and it has always ended in failure and often with terrible conflict. People should be allowed to have their children brought up in the faith they chose and that choice should exist for both rich and poor alike. A tolerant society is not one where all have to learn to believe the same but one where all are allowed to believe what they choose and pass those beliefs on, whilst learning to respect others who believe differently." I think you forget that God killed every human apart from Adam by covering the planet with more water than exists on 0if planet today , thus to the myth all humans stem from Noah , and that silly story is only dated about 5 thousand years ago Sadly I've met a number of people who are under 18 and are adamant that this story is fact | |||
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"Ban Drama schools too..... Because lets face it teaching kids that tap dancing is a life skill must surely rank as a crime against humanity .... To be honest about 50% of what is taught at secondary level is obsolete for the majority of pupils. Turning 30 soon and still haven't need to calculate the circumference of anything, not suffering because I can't remember how rocks are formed and haven't painted a picture in a decade and not missing it How, though, if you do not teach a broad syllabus, can you work out what individual children enjoy and have an aptitude for? It's not the principle that's the problem, it's how long you allow that to go on for. They can't drop any subjects until they are 13 ffs, in yester years people started their careers at 13!! (albeit under an apprenticeship) now it's at least 21 for a graduate. Did we get dumber or something? Quite the opposite. We know more so there's more t' learn. As I said, where would I be without all those lessons on circumferences and rocks... Well actually you would be cold and stuck at home in a poorly constructed house ! Because although you cannot fathom the usefulness of geology and geometry in your life , luckily many do and it is that knowledge that permits your modern life ,safe transport, energy supply , water .roads house building and materials Now tell me the function to society teaching anyone that Noah was the father to all humanity ? I think you're getting Noah mixed up with Adam. But either way, while some fundamentalist churches teach the stories of the bible as actual truth, most teach a more metaphorical meaning to the stories. It seems to me that those who oppose religion are yet again trying to force their view of the world on everyone and only their beliefs should be allowed to be passed on to the youth of the nation. Many religions tried this approach in the past and it has always ended in failure and often with terrible conflict. People should be allowed to have their children brought up in the faith they chose and that choice should exist for both rich and poor alike. A tolerant society is not one where all have to learn to believe the same but one where all are allowed to believe what they choose and pass those beliefs on, whilst learning to respect others who believe differently. I think you forget that God killed every human apart from Adam by covering the planet with more water than exists on 0if planet today , thus to the myth all humans stem from Noah , and that silly story is only dated about 5 thousand years ago Sadly I've met a number of people who are under 18 and are adamant that this story is fact "Even more sadly, I've met a number of people who are over 18 and are adamant that they have the right to tell others what they should and shouldn't believe and what faith they should be allowed to pass on to their children. And that is far more worrying to me. | |||
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"It's a little disingenuous to make the point that one 'has never had to use' a certain part of their education. Obviously the having to use it lies in the future so some people WILL need to know how to calculate the circumference of circles or how rocks are made. So everyone learns it all so you all have the opportunity to use what you need. Be grateful for a rounded education, it's one of the most long lasting gifts you can receive and makes life more interesting. It's not either the actual 'what you learnt' either per se, it's how you learnt it and the life journey in doing so. " I can't help but agree with you there. I would also add that if you feel you have no more to learn you're wrong. | |||
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"It's a little disingenuous to make the point that one 'has never had to use' a certain part of their education. Obviously the having to use it lies in the future so some people WILL need to know how to calculate the circumference of circles or how rocks are made. So everyone learns it all so you all have the opportunity to use what you need. Be grateful for a rounded education, it's one of the most long lasting gifts you can receive and makes life more interesting. It's not either the actual 'what you learnt' either per se, it's how you learnt it and the life journey in doing so. I can't help but agree with you there. I would also add that if you feel you have no more to learn you're wrong." Thinking one is educated enough for life is, in itself, a sign of lack of education. Aristotle would have been proud of me.  | |||
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"Thinking one is educated enough for life is, in itself, a sign of lack of education. Aristotle would have been proud of me. "As they say "every day is a school day" - just not a faith school day. | |||
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"Religion should be an important part of the lives of those who choose to follow any particular faith. For those who are not religious, it should be no part of their lives whatsoever. Introduce me to any god, then let me ask why said god lets bad stuff happen unchallenged. If I'm given a satisfactory answer, then hallefrigginglujah! Until then, I think I'll pass." There are a few additional questions you could throw in for me too, if you wouldn't mind: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fX3gMDJCZ-4 | |||
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"faith based schools are inspected by the relevant faith based organisation in addition to OFSTED - so you'll find those additional practises in most faith based schools. It wasn't clear from your post that you were referring to faith schools." Faith schools in relation to others, especially vis a vis the teaching of the RE curriculum, especially as regards to standards .... at least they aren't academies | |||
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"It's a little disingenuous to make the point that one 'has never had to use' a certain part of their education. Obviously the having to use it lies in the future so some people WILL need to know how to calculate the circumference of circles or how rocks are made. So everyone learns it all so you all have the opportunity to use what you need. Be grateful for a rounded education, it's one of the most long lasting gifts you can receive and makes life more interesting. It's not either the actual 'what you learnt' either per se, it's how you learnt it and the life journey in doing so. " Your comments lack any proportionality. Your logic is that some people need to learn how rocks are formed which means everyone should learn it! On the other other hand, far more youngsters would benefit from leaning a bit of C++ rather than rock formation but do they teach that - not at my school... There's a limited amount of time at school so you can't defend everything by saying that some poor sod needs it. | |||
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"There should be no religion in schools other than that taught in the specific subject of RE ...and this should cover all faiths. And taught as a "this is what some people believe" . There is no excuse in this day and age of any kind of indoctrination or teaching the existence of any kind of god. There should be no faith schools.....we may as well gave a Father Christmas Schools or Jolly Green a Giant schools." | |||
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"It's a little disingenuous to make the point that one 'has never had to use' a certain part of their education. Obviously the having to use it lies in the future so some people WILL need to know how to calculate the circumference of circles or how rocks are made. So everyone learns it all so you all have the opportunity to use what you need. Be grateful for a rounded education, it's one of the most long lasting gifts you can receive and makes life more interesting. It's not either the actual 'what you learnt' either per se, it's how you learnt it and the life journey in doing so. Your comments lack any proportionality. Your logic is that some people need to learn how rocks are formed which means everyone should learn it! On the other other hand, far more youngsters would benefit from leaning a bit of C++ rather than rock formation but do they teach that - not at my school... There's a limited amount of time at school so you can't defend everything by saying that some poor sod needs it. " It's a same you have an either or attitude Personally I would like children to be introduced to understanding both and many more subjects and concepts I absolutely think humans should be taught ABOUT religions I absolutely don't think any child should be taught that a religious doctrine is factual or that the underlying god concept is the undisputable creator and rule makes me our planet The difference is vast xx | |||
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"It's a little disingenuous to make the point that one 'has never had to use' a certain part of their education. Obviously the having to use it lies in the future so some people WILL need to know how to calculate the circumference of circles or how rocks are made. So everyone learns it all so you all have the opportunity to use what you need. Be grateful for a rounded education, it's one of the most long lasting gifts you can receive and makes life more interesting. It's not either the actual 'what you learnt' either per se, it's how you learnt it and the life journey in doing so. Your comments lack any proportionality. Your logic is that some people need to learn how rocks are formed which means everyone should learn it! On the other other hand, far more youngsters would benefit from leaning a bit of C++ rather than rock formation but do they teach that - not at my school... There's a limited amount of time at school so you can't defend everything by saying that some poor sod needs it. It's a same you have an either or attitude Personally I would like children to be introduced to understanding both and many more subjects and concepts I absolutely think humans should be taught ABOUT religions I absolutely don't think any child should be taught that a religious doctrine is factual or that the underlying god concept is the undisputable creator and rule makes me our planet The difference is vast xx" Agree. Sex is considered such a touchy subject in schools and many people have strong views about what their children are told by educationalists and the curriculum in general particularly regarding suitable age and areas such as LGBT. But when it comes to religion there seems to be no age barrier as to the onslaught of indoctrination. Our children are still threatened with eternal damnation, read about killing witches, stoning, beheading and all kinds of lovely stuff. In certain schools religion is forced upon very young children using mental and physical abuse. | |||
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"Get the kids in all schools to spend the time currently used for worship to be used for exercise, including running a mile a day. We could improve health physically and leave religious indoctrination to outside of school - though I'd prefer that they didn't have any. (Differently to education to broaden their knowledge of major religions, though I'd keep that to a few hours each year)." I agree with this. There are loads of health type things that would be great for kids to learn instead and they'd be happier and more fulfilled which benefits everyone | |||
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"It's a little disingenuous to make the point that one 'has never had to use' a certain part of their education. Obviously the having to use it lies in the future so some people WILL need to know how to calculate the circumference of circles or how rocks are made. So everyone learns it all so you all have the opportunity to use what you need. Be grateful for a rounded education, it's one of the most long lasting gifts you can receive and makes life more interesting. It's not either the actual 'what you learnt' either per se, it's how you learnt it and the life journey in doing so. Your comments lack any proportionality. Your logic is that some people need to learn how rocks are formed which means everyone should learn it! On the other other hand, far more youngsters would benefit from leaning a bit of C++ rather than rock formation but do they teach that - not at my school... There's a limited amount of time at school so you can't defend everything by saying that some poor sod needs it. It's a same you have an either or attitude Personally I would like children to be introduced to understanding both and many more subjects and concepts I absolutely think humans should be taught ABOUT religions I absolutely don't think any child should be taught that a religious doctrine is factual or that the underlying god concept is the undisputable creator and rule makes me our planet The difference is vast xx" Ever heard the foxes and hedgehogs analogy? | |||
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"It's a little disingenuous to make the point that one 'has never had to use' a certain part of their education. Obviously the having to use it lies in the future so some people WILL need to know how to calculate the circumference of circles or how rocks are made. So everyone learns it all so you all have the opportunity to use what you need. Be grateful for a rounded education, it's one of the most long lasting gifts you can receive and makes life more interesting. It's not either the actual 'what you learnt' either per se, it's how you learnt it and the life journey in doing so. Your comments lack any proportionality. Your logic is that some people need to learn how rocks are formed which means everyone should learn it! On the other other hand, far more youngsters would benefit from leaning a bit of C++ rather than rock formation but do they teach that - not at my school... There's a limited amount of time at school so you can't defend everything by saying that some poor sod needs it. It's a same you have an either or attitude Personally I would like children to be introduced to understanding both and many more subjects and concepts I absolutely think humans should be taught ABOUT religions I absolutely don't think any child should be taught that a religious doctrine is factual or that the underlying god concept is the undisputable creator and rule makes me our planet The difference is vast xx Agree. Sex is considered such a touchy subject in schools and many people have strong views about what their children are told by educationalists and the curriculum in general particularly regarding suitable age and areas such as LGBT. But when it comes to religion there seems to be no age barrier as to the onslaught of indoctrination. Our children are still threatened with eternal damnation, read about killing witches, stoning, beheading and all kinds of lovely stuff. In certain schools religion is forced upon very young children using mental and physical abuse." Wow, I really missed out! We were so busy learning about loving our neighbour, singing carols in old peoples' homes, going on visits to temples, mosques, synagogues and gurdwaras, charity fundraising, studying such traumatic parables as "the Good Samaritan", debating issues such as abortion and euthanasia, learning about self respect, treating our bodies as temples and not being pressured into sex (girls school) that we didn't have time for ANY of that hellfire and damnation and witches and beheading and stoning stuff  And I was there for 13 years, I'd have thought they'd have found the time to squeeze some in  | |||
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"Personally, I think religion should just be taught as a small part of general world history. Saying that, how cool would a Jedi school be? "I am a Jedi | |||
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"It's possible to teach all of those values without the religious bias. The influence the church still has, particularly in primary schools is bizarre." Of course. But, and I can only go off my own experience, faith schools do a lot more of it because a focus on RE gives them the space in the timetable for more emphasis on debate, discussion, citizenship type concepts. Do you think the 1/3 Muslim pupils and 1/3 pupils of no religious affiliation who were at my Catholic secondary school would have allowed themselves to be "brainwashed" by the "religious bias"? We were always encouraged to discuss, debate and question. Some people came away with stronger faith. Others came away thinking it was a crock of shit. If people don't agree with faith schools they always have the option not to send their children to one. It's not difficult. But so much of what's on this thread bears literally no relation to the actual experience of people who have attended or taught in them. | |||
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"I don't think the debate is about the teaching of RE - that's entirely separate to schools that have a religious bias. And the argument about choice leads me to think you've either not had to find a school for your own children, or you've been very fortunate in the choices available to you." I don't have children. Thus rendering me not allowed to have an opinion on anything, yeah yeah, heard it before ad nauseum on this forum
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"I don't think the debate is about the teaching of RE - that's entirely separate to schools that have a religious bias. And the argument about choice leads me to think you've either not had to find a school for your own children, or you've been very fortunate in the choices available to you. I don't have children. Thus rendering me not allowed to have an opinion on anything, yeah yeah, heard it before ad nauseum on this forum
"I'm pointing out that the reality of obtaining a school place isn't always so simple as being able to pick and choose to suit your ideology (unless you're particularly wealthy of course). My argument would be that school should be a place for children to learn in as neutral a way as possible in order that when they become adults they may make informed choices about the ideologies they wish to pursue - opposed to being led towards them within school. | |||
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"It's a little disingenuous to make the point that one 'has never had to use' a certain part of their education. Obviously the having to use it lies in the future so some people WILL need to know how to calculate the circumference of circles or how rocks are made. So everyone learns it all so you all have the opportunity to use what you need. Be grateful for a rounded education, it's one of the most long lasting gifts you can receive and makes life more interesting. It's not either the actual 'what you learnt' either per se, it's how you learnt it and the life journey in doing so. Your comments lack any proportionality. Your logic is that some people need to learn how rocks are formed which means everyone should learn it! On the other other hand, far more youngsters would benefit from leaning a bit of C++ rather than rock formation but do they teach that - not at my school... There's a limited amount of time at school so you can't defend everything by saying that some poor sod needs it. It's a same you have an either or attitude Personally I would like children to be introduced to understanding both and many more subjects and concepts I absolutely think humans should be taught ABOUT religions I absolutely don't think any child should be taught that a religious doctrine is factual or that the underlying god concept is the undisputable creator and rule makes me our planet The difference is vast xx Agree. Sex is considered such a touchy subject in schools and many people have strong views about what their children are told by educationalists and the curriculum in general particularly regarding suitable age and areas such as LGBT. But when it comes to religion there seems to be no age barrier as to the onslaught of indoctrination. Our children are still threatened with eternal damnation, read about killing witches, stoning, beheading and all kinds of lovely stuff. In certain schools religion is forced upon very young children using mental and physical abuse. Wow, I really missed out! We were so busy learning about loving our neighbour, singing carols in old peoples' homes, going on visits to temples, mosques, synagogues and gurdwaras, charity fundraising, studying such traumatic parables as "the Good Samaritan", debating issues such as abortion and euthanasia, learning about self respect, treating our bodies as temples and not being pressured into sex (girls school) that we didn't have time for ANY of that hellfire and damnation and witches and beheading and stoning stuff And I was there for 13 years, I'd have thought they'd have found the time to squeeze some in "Yea it was good in the days of free milk and rose coloured glasses. | |||
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"It's a little disingenuous to make the point that one 'has never had to use' a certain part of their education. Obviously the having to use it lies in the future so some people WILL need to know how to calculate the circumference of circles or how rocks are made. So everyone learns it all so you all have the opportunity to use what you need. Be grateful for a rounded education, it's one of the most long lasting gifts you can receive and makes life more interesting. It's not either the actual 'what you learnt' either per se, it's how you learnt it and the life journey in doing so. Your comments lack any proportionality. Your logic is that some people need to learn how rocks are formed which means everyone should learn it! On the other other hand, far more youngsters would benefit from leaning a bit of C++ rather than rock formation but do they teach that - not at my school... There's a limited amount of time at school so you can't defend everything by saying that some poor sod needs it. It's a same you have an either or attitude Personally I would like children to be introduced to understanding both and many more subjects and concepts I absolutely think humans should be taught ABOUT religions I absolutely don't think any child should be taught that a religious doctrine is factual or that the underlying god concept is the undisputable creator and rule makes me our planet The difference is vast xx Agree. Sex is considered such a touchy subject in schools and many people have strong views about what their children are told by educationalists and the curriculum in general particularly regarding suitable age and areas such as LGBT. But when it comes to religion there seems to be no age barrier as to the onslaught of indoctrination. Our children are still threatened with eternal damnation, read about killing witches, stoning, beheading and all kinds of lovely stuff. In certain schools religion is forced upon very young children using mental and physical abuse. Wow, I really missed out! We were so busy learning about loving our neighbour, singing carols in old peoples' homes, going on visits to temples, mosques, synagogues and gurdwaras, charity fundraising, studying such traumatic parables as "the Good Samaritan", debating issues such as abortion and euthanasia, learning about self respect, treating our bodies as temples and not being pressured into sex (girls school) that we didn't have time for ANY of that hellfire and damnation and witches and beheading and stoning stuff And I was there for 13 years, I'd have thought they'd have found the time to squeeze some in
Yea it was good in the days of free
milk and rose coloured glasses."Nah pet, I'm considerably younger than you. They didn't even have corporal punishment. | |||
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Maybe the clue is in the name of the school type or the fact such schools exists. They're what they are and exempt from the equalities acts in order for them to apply bias.
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"It's a little disingenuous to make the point that one 'has never had to use' a certain part of their education. Obviously the having to use it lies in the future so some people WILL need to know how to calculate the circumference of circles or how rocks are made. So everyone learns it all so you all have the opportunity to use what you need. Be grateful for a rounded education, it's one of the most long lasting gifts you can receive and makes life more interesting. It's not either the actual 'what you learnt' either per se, it's how you learnt it and the life journey in doing so. Your comments lack any proportionality. Your logic is that some people need to learn how rocks are formed which means everyone should learn it! On the other other hand, far more youngsters would benefit from leaning a bit of C++ rather than rock formation but do they teach that - not at my school... There's a limited amount of time at school so you can't defend everything by saying that some poor sod needs it. It's a same you have an either or attitude Personally I would like children to be introduced to understanding both and many more subjects and concepts I absolutely think humans should be taught ABOUT religions I absolutely don't think any child should be taught that a religious doctrine is factual or that the underlying god concept is the undisputable creator and rule makes me our planet The difference is vast xx Agree. Sex is considered such a touchy subject in schools and many people have strong views about what their children are told by educationalists and the curriculum in general particularly regarding suitable age and areas such as LGBT. But when it comes to religion there seems to be no age barrier as to the onslaught of indoctrination. Our children are still threatened with eternal damnation, read about killing witches, stoning, beheading and all kinds of lovely stuff. In certain schools religion is forced upon very young children using mental and physical abuse. Wow, I really missed out! We were so busy learning about loving our neighbour, singing carols in old peoples' homes, going on visits to temples, mosques, synagogues and gurdwaras, charity fundraising, studying such traumatic parables as "the Good Samaritan", debating issues such as abortion and euthanasia, learning about self respect, treating our bodies as temples and not being pressured into sex (girls school) that we didn't have time for ANY of that hellfire and damnation and witches and beheading and stoning stuff And I was there for 13 years, I'd have thought they'd have found the time to squeeze some in "I'd love to hear the Catholic perspective of "debate " with regards to abortion and contraception ? As for the rest I was also taught the same xx luckily our debates on contraception did not have an over bearing doctrine suggesting we were bad people if we used them xx | |||
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"Quite funny reading this to see that some people make out that faith schools wont be biased towards the relative faith, children of that faith with parents of that faith
Maybe the clue is in the name of the school type or the fact such schools exists. They're what they are and exempt from the equalities acts in order for them to apply bias.
"Are any parents seriously stupid enough to complain about the fact that a school from a faith they disagree with operates an admissions policy that preferences those who do agree with it? | |||
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"Are any parents seriously stupid enough to complain about the fact that a school from a faith they disagree with operates an admissions policy that preferences those who do agree with it? "Wouldn't that be a legitimate complaint if you live somewhere rural and the only nearby school is faith based? | |||
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"It's a little disingenuous to make the point that one 'has never had to use' a certain part of their education. Obviously the having to use it lies in the future so some people WILL need to know how to calculate the circumference of circles or how rocks are made. So everyone learns it all so you all have the opportunity to use what you need. Be grateful for a rounded education, it's one of the most long lasting gifts you can receive and makes life more interesting. It's not either the actual 'what you learnt' either per se, it's how you learnt it and the life journey in doing so. Your comments lack any proportionality. Your logic is that some people need to learn how rocks are formed which means everyone should learn it! On the other other hand, far more youngsters would benefit from leaning a bit of C++ rather than rock formation but do they teach that - not at my school... There's a limited amount of time at school so you can't defend everything by saying that some poor sod needs it. It's a same you have an either or attitude Personally I would like children to be introduced to understanding both and many more subjects and concepts I absolutely think humans should be taught ABOUT religions I absolutely don't think any child should be taught that a religious doctrine is factual or that the underlying god concept is the undisputable creator and rule makes me our planet The difference is vast xx Agree. Sex is considered such a touchy subject in schools and many people have strong views about what their children are told by educationalists and the curriculum in general particularly regarding suitable age and areas such as LGBT. But when it comes to religion there seems to be no age barrier as to the onslaught of indoctrination. Our children are still threatened with eternal damnation, read about killing witches, stoning, beheading and all kinds of lovely stuff. In certain schools religion is forced upon very young children using mental and physical abuse. Wow, I really missed out! We were so busy learning about loving our neighbour, singing carols in old peoples' homes, going on visits to temples, mosques, synagogues and gurdwaras, charity fundraising, studying such traumatic parables as "the Good Samaritan", debating issues such as abortion and euthanasia, learning about self respect, treating our bodies as temples and not being pressured into sex (girls school) that we didn't have time for ANY of that hellfire and damnation and witches and beheading and stoning stuff And I was there for 13 years, I'd have thought they'd have found the time to squeeze some in
I'd love to hear the Catholic perspective of "debate " with regards to abortion and contraception ?
As for the rest I was also taught the same xx luckily our debates on contraception did not have an over bearing doctrine suggesting we were bad people if we used them xx"Mine didn't either. They got external people in to teach us about condoms and all that stuff. Again, you are repeating what you think goes on rather than what my experience tells me actually went on. As for the debates, they would be along the lines of telling us what the catholic view was, what the view of other religions were, then encouraging us to discuss what our own thoughts were. Which would involve some people being pro, some being anti, others being unsure. GCSE papers were always framed as explain one Christian viewpoint, compare and contrast with another religion or denomination, and give your own view and why you thought that. Nobody would have got very good results if we'd just regurgitated the catechism. I really don't care if people disagree with faith schools - but as someone who went to one, who is married to someone non-religious who teaches at one, I have a much better understanding of the realities of what they teach and how they teach it than someone who didn't, but thinks they know all about it. | |||
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"Are any parents seriously stupid enough to complain about the fact that a school from a faith they disagree with operates an admissions policy that preferences those who do agree with it?
Wouldn't that be a legitimate complaint if you live somewhere rural and the only nearby school is faith based?"Not really, you choose to live somewhere rural, you accept you're going to have less choice. | |||
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"Not really, you choose to live somewhere rural, you accept you're going to have less choice. " So this just descended into the ridiculous. Everyone that lives in the sticks moved there for a lifestyle choice right? | |||
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"Not really, you choose to live somewhere rural, you accept you're going to have less choice. So this just descended into the ridiculous. Everyone that lives in the sticks moved there for a lifestyle choice right?" If they didn't, and they didn't want to live in the countryside where there might be - god forbid - a terrible, brainwashing, hellfire and damnation C of E primary school for their children then they should have made different career choices. Or they can send them to school a bit further away. | |||
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"It's a little disingenuous to make the point that one 'has never had to use' a certain part of their education. Obviously the having to use it lies in the future so some people WILL need to know how to calculate the circumference of circles or how rocks are made. So everyone learns it all so you all have the opportunity to use what you need. Be grateful for a rounded education, it's one of the most long lasting gifts you can receive and makes life more interesting. It's not either the actual 'what you learnt' either per se, it's how you learnt it and the life journey in doing so. Your comments lack any proportionality. Your logic is that some people need to learn how rocks are formed which means everyone should learn it! On the other other hand, far more youngsters would benefit from leaning a bit of C++ rather than rock formation but do they teach that - not at my school... There's a limited amount of time at school so you can't defend everything by saying that some poor sod needs it. It's a same you have an either or attitude Personally I would like children to be introduced to understanding both and many more subjects and concepts I absolutely think humans should be taught ABOUT religions I absolutely don't think any child should be taught that a religious doctrine is factual or that the underlying god concept is the undisputable creator and rule makes me our planet The difference is vast xx Agree. Sex is considered such a touchy subject in schools and many people have strong views about what their children are told by educationalists and the curriculum in general particularly regarding suitable age and areas such as LGBT. But when it comes to religion there seems to be no age barrier as to the onslaught of indoctrination. Our children are still threatened with eternal damnation, read about killing witches, stoning, beheading and all kinds of lovely stuff. In certain schools religion is forced upon very young children using mental and physical abuse. Wow, I really missed out! We were so busy learning about loving our neighbour, singing carols in old peoples' homes, going on visits to temples, mosques, synagogues and gurdwaras, charity fundraising, studying such traumatic parables as "the Good Samaritan", debating issues such as abortion and euthanasia, learning about self respect, treating our bodies as temples and not being pressured into sex (girls school) that we didn't have time for ANY of that hellfire and damnation and witches and beheading and stoning stuff And I was there for 13 years, I'd have thought they'd have found the time to squeeze some in
I'd love to hear the Catholic perspective of "debate " with regards to abortion and contraception ?
As for the rest I was also taught the same xx luckily our debates on contraception did not have an over bearing doctrine suggesting we were bad people if we used them xx
Mine didn't either. They got external people in to teach us about condoms and all that stuff. Again, you are repeating what you think goes on rather than what my experience tells me actually went on.
As for the debates, they would be along the lines of telling us what the catholic view was, what the view of other religions were, then encouraging us to discuss what our own thoughts were. Which would involve some people being pro, some being anti, others being unsure. GCSE papers were always framed as explain one Christian viewpoint, compare and contrast with another religion or denomination, and give your own view and why you thought that. Nobody would have got very good results if we'd just regurgitated the catechism.
I really don't care if people disagree with faith schools - but as someone who went to one, who is married to someone non-religious who teaches at one, I have a much better understanding of the realities of what they teach and how they teach it than someone who didn't, but thinks they know all about it. "It seems you did not go to a faith school ? As they taught you EXACTLY the same as my none faith school . It seems they were being very dishonest to the parents ? | |||
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"It's a little disingenuous to make the point that one 'has never had to use' a certain part of their education. Obviously the having to use it lies in the future so some people WILL need to know how to calculate the circumference of circles or how rocks are made. So everyone learns it all so you all have the opportunity to use what you need. Be grateful for a rounded education, it's one of the most long lasting gifts you can receive and makes life more interesting. It's not either the actual 'what you learnt' either per se, it's how you learnt it and the life journey in doing so. Your comments lack any proportionality. Your logic is that some people need to learn how rocks are formed which means everyone should learn it! On the other other hand, far more youngsters would benefit from leaning a bit of C++ rather than rock formation but do they teach that - not at my school... There's a limited amount of time at school so you can't defend everything by saying that some poor sod needs it. It's a same you have an either or attitude Personally I would like children to be introduced to understanding both and many more subjects and concepts I absolutely think humans should be taught ABOUT religions I absolutely don't think any child should be taught that a religious doctrine is factual or that the underlying god concept is the undisputable creator and rule makes me our planet The difference is vast xx Agree. Sex is considered such a touchy subject in schools and many people have strong views about what their children are told by educationalists and the curriculum in general particularly regarding suitable age and areas such as LGBT. But when it comes to religion there seems to be no age barrier as to the onslaught of indoctrination. Our children are still threatened with eternal damnation, read about killing witches, stoning, beheading and all kinds of lovely stuff. In certain schools religion is forced upon very young children using mental and physical abuse. Wow, I really missed out! We were so busy learning about loving our neighbour, singing carols in old peoples' homes, going on visits to temples, mosques, synagogues and gurdwaras, charity fundraising, studying such traumatic parables as "the Good Samaritan", debating issues such as abortion and euthanasia, learning about self respect, treating our bodies as temples and not being pressured into sex (girls school) that we didn't have time for ANY of that hellfire and damnation and witches and beheading and stoning stuff And I was there for 13 years, I'd have thought they'd have found the time to squeeze some in
I'd love to hear the Catholic perspective of "debate " with regards to abortion and contraception ?
As for the rest I was also taught the same xx luckily our debates on contraception did not have an over bearing doctrine suggesting we were bad people if we used them xx
Mine didn't either. They got external people in to teach us about condoms and all that stuff. Again, you are repeating what you think goes on rather than what my experience tells me actually went on.
As for the debates, they would be along the lines of telling us what the catholic view was, what the view of other religions were, then encouraging us to discuss what our own thoughts were. Which would involve some people being pro, some being anti, others being unsure. GCSE papers were always framed as explain one Christian viewpoint, compare and contrast with another religion or denomination, and give your own view and why you thought that. Nobody would have got very good results if we'd just regurgitated the catechism.
I really don't care if people disagree with faith schools - but as someone who went to one, who is married to someone non-religious who teaches at one, I have a much better understanding of the realities of what they teach and how they teach it than someone who didn't, but thinks they know all about it.
It seems you did not go to a faith school ? As they taught you EXACTLY the same as my none faith school . It seems they were being very dishonest to the parents ?"Nope, definitely Catholic. There were nuns and everything. My parents were quite happy with me being taught the Catholic position on various issues while also being encouraged to discuss and think about other points of view. Why would they not be? | |||
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"If they didn't, and they didn't want to live in the countryside where there might be - god forbid - a terrible, brainwashing, hellfire and damnation C of E primary school for their children then they should have made different career choices. Or they can send them to school a bit further away. " And so it descends further
This may comes as a shock... there are people who live in rural places who were actually born there.
Furthermore they're not all rich and may not be able to transport Tarquin in a Chelsea Tractor to a place convenient to your argument.
If a school is placed to serve a local community made up of people of different faiths (that being pretty much everywhere now) - I can see no justifiable reason for it to have a religious bias except perhaps where it's a fee paying school that receives no state subsidy. | |||
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"Are any parents seriously stupid enough to complain about the fact that a school from a faith they disagree with operates an admissions policy that preferences those who do agree with it?
Wouldn't that be a legitimate complaint if you live somewhere rural and the only nearby school is faith based?
Not really, you choose to live somewhere rural, you accept you're going to have less choice. "Probably better firing such question at those trying to spell out such schools don't have a bias. Saying that a bit of lateral thinking might give a clue that many children not of whatever faith are in the catchment area for the school. They either go to that school (whilst obviously expected to stfu it's been taken over as a faith school) or travel outside the area. | |||
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"Quite funny reading this to see that some people make out that faith schools wont be biased towards the relative faith, children of that faith with parents of that faith
Maybe the clue is in the name of the school type or the fact such schools exists. They're what they are and exempt from the equalities acts in order for them to apply bias.
Are any parents seriously stupid enough to complain about the fact that a school from a faith they disagree with operates an admissions policy that preferences those who do agree with it?
Probably better firing such question at those trying to spell out such schools don't have a bias.
Saying that a bit of lateral thinking probably means many children not of whatever faith are in the catchment area for the school. They either go to that school (whilst obviously expected to stay) or travel outside the area.
"I'm not saying they don't have a bias. I'm saying it's perfectly acceptable for them to have a bias. But I don't know why anyone who is anti-faith schools or anti-organised religion would want to send their child there in the first place. And incidentally, I travelled far outside my catchment area to go to catholic school. About 45minutes each way on public transport. Thus freeing up a place at the secular schools in the area I lived. So it's swings and roundabouts. | |||
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"I really don't see the problem here. If you don't like faith schools then don't send your kid to one. It's not like anyone is forcing people to send their kids to a faith school if they don't want to. What the argument of those who think faith schools should be banned or closed seems to be is that everyone should be forced to bring up their kids only according to what atheist think is right; that people should not be allowed to bring up their own children in the way and accordingly to their beliefs. I don't know what sort of world these so called atheist want to create but it seems to me like it would be a pretty intolerant and intolerable one for most normal people to live in." I'm not a so called atheist. I didn't argue against them for the reasons you suggest. I don't think there's any justification for the state to support schools pushing a religious agenda. | |||
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"I really don't see the problem here. If you don't like faith schools then don't send your kid to one. It's not like anyone is forcing people to send their kids to a faith school if they don't want to. What the argument of those who think faith schools should be banned or closed seems to be is that everyone should be forced to bring up their kids only according to what atheist think is right; that people should not be allowed to bring up their own children in the way and accordingly to their beliefs. I don't know what sort of world these so called atheist want to create but it seems to me like it would be a pretty intolerant and intolerable one for most normal people to live in. I'm not a so called atheist. I didn't argue against them for the reasons you suggest. I don't think there's any justification for the state to support schools pushing a religious agenda." Why? | |||
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"I'm not a so called atheist. I didn't argue against them for the reasons you suggest. I don't think there's any justification for the state to support schools pushing a religious agenda. Why?" Because it ain't the job of the state to push religion on to children. | |||
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"I really don't see the problem here. If you don't like faith schools then don't send your kid to one. It's not like anyone is forcing people to send their kids to a faith school if they don't want to. What the argument of those who think faith schools should be banned or closed seems to be is that everyone should be forced to bring up their kids only according to what atheist think is right; that people should not be allowed to bring up their own children in the way and accordingly to their beliefs. I don't know what sort of world these so called atheist want to create but it seems to me like it would be a pretty intolerant and intolerable one for most normal people to live in. I'm not a so called atheist. I didn't argue against them for the reasons you suggest. I don't think there's any justification for the state to support schools pushing a religious agenda. Why?" Not the most objective reply ? children deserve not to be manipulated to believe Out of 6 regions at most only one doctrine could be right at most Far better to teach about rather teach something is | |||
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"I'm not a so called atheist. I didn't argue against them for the reasons you suggest. I don't think there's any justification for the state to support schools pushing a religious agenda. Why? Because it ain't the job of the state to push religion on to children." There's more important stuff and facts about life to learn, like rocks and how to play the glockenspiel. | |||
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"I'm not a so called atheist. I didn't argue against them for the reasons you suggest. I don't think there's any justification for the state to support schools pushing a religious agenda. Why? Because it ain't the job of the state to push religion on to children." Unfortunately it HAS been the job of the state to push religion on children for hundreds of years and in some areas/communities it still goes on. | |||
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"I'm not a so called atheist. I didn't argue against them for the reasons you suggest. I don't think there's any justification for the state to support schools pushing a religious agenda. Why? Because it ain't the job of the state to push religion on to children. Unfortunately it HAS been the job of the state to push religion on children for hundreds of years and in some areas/communities it still goes on. " To be fair to churches it is because of them that many schools exist and indeed most of the education system, so historically it's understandable. But times are different now. | |||
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"I'm thinking there's going to be some really red faces on judgement day, When everybody's lining up,at the one gate. "I'm thinking it's the worms and bacteria who have the last laugh ? | |||
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"I'm not a so called atheist. I didn't argue against them for the reasons you suggest. I don't think there's any justification for the state to support schools pushing a religious agenda. Why? Because it ain't the job of the state to push religion on to children. Unfortunately it HAS been the job of the state to push religion on children for hundreds of years and in some areas/communities it still goes on. " You make me giggle with your disdain for geology In my opinion It's one of the most revealing and fascinating subjects Visit mountains geology expands the pleasure , go to the coast geology expands the pleasure , hear about volcanos or earthquakes , it helps our understanding we the situation , tsunami makes more sense , go on holiday to am island , more pleasure , Any human that wants to understand the history of our planet and know why certain religious teachings are untrue , geology Crossing the Atlantic , understanding some geology will explain your questions if you are of enquiring mind Driven past stone henge , geology , been to Wales , geology , been to Dover, geology Telling a 7 year old a god exists bad Telling them some think one of many exist , reasonable Telling them the cliffs of Dover were once under the Sea and are the francois of sea creatures , priceless , fascinating , and inspiring xxx Telling a child to respect others is a human teaching and not exclusive to religions It's the none sense beyond that which is needless Or maybe you would not want a child to understand volcanos or the Dover cliffs | |||
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"I'm not a so called atheist. I didn't argue against them for the reasons you suggest. I don't think there's any justification for the state to support schools pushing a religious agenda. Why? Because it ain't the job of the state to push religion on to children. Unfortunately it HAS been the job of the state to push religion on children for hundreds of years and in some areas/communities it still goes on. You make me giggle with your disdain for geology In my opinion It's one of the most revealing and fascinating subjects Visit mountains geology expands the pleasure , go to the coast geology expands the pleasure , hear about volcanos or earthquakes , it helps our understanding we the situation , tsunami makes more sense , go on holiday to am island , more pleasure , Any human that wants to understand the history of our planet and know why certain religious teachings are untrue , geology Crossing the Atlantic , understanding some geology will explain your questions if you are of enquiring mind Driven past stone henge , geology , been to Wales , geology , been to Dover, geology Telling a 7 year old a god exists bad Telling them some think one of many exist , reasonable Telling them the cliffs of Dover were once under the Sea and are the francois of sea creatures , priceless , fascinating , and inspiring xxx Telling a child to respect others is a human teaching and not exclusive to religions It's the none sense beyond that which is needless Or maybe you would not want a child to understand volcanos or the Dover cliffs "It was geography rather than geology. Google "what can I do with a geography degree?" And the number 1 job is "become a geography teacher" - says it all really. | |||
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"I'm not a so called atheist. I didn't argue against them for the reasons you suggest. I don't think there's any justification for the state to support schools pushing a religious agenda. Why? Because it ain't the job of the state to push religion on to children. Unfortunately it HAS been the job of the state to push religion on children for hundreds of years and in some areas/communities it still goes on. You make me giggle with your disdain for geology In my opinion It's one of the most revealing and fascinating subjects Visit mountains geology expands the pleasure , go to the coast geology expands the pleasure , hear about volcanos or earthquakes , it helps our understanding we the situation , tsunami makes more sense , go on holiday to am island , more pleasure , Any human that wants to understand the history of our planet and know why certain religious teachings are untrue , geology Crossing the Atlantic , understanding some geology will explain your questions if you are of enquiring mind Driven past stone henge , geology , been to Wales , geology , been to Dover, geology Telling a 7 year old a god exists bad Telling them some think one of many exist , reasonable Telling them the cliffs of Dover were once under the Sea and are the francois of sea creatures , priceless , fascinating , and inspiring xxx Telling a child to respect others is a human teaching and not exclusive to religions It's the none sense beyond that which is needless Or maybe you would not want a child to understand volcanos or the Dover cliffs
It was geography rather than geology. Google "what can I do with a geography degree?" And the number 1 job is "become a geography teacher" - says it all really. "Again your diversion tactics are admirable xxx Let's phrase it the other way What benefit do you think I would have from being indoctrinated that a specific god concept is a belief I should hold Let's be clear the benefits you give should be exclusive to a particlar doctrine , so loving ones neighbours, sharing love, being selfless, modesty, etc are not included You need to tell me how devoutly hoping a specific god exist would make me better or the world better Granny feels better with a god crutch is not an answer She was not given the loving care to show her how she can be happy without a god concept . But I and many others prove otherwise God is not shown to exist but only exists as a fairy tail meme . So sad not to give our children the tool kit to survive planet earth and it's shit rather give them an un justified dream So what does faith school teach that is non manipulative and is beneficial | |||
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"I'm not religious, I have no problem with any parent who wishes their child to have a religiously based education - I just object to State funds being used to pay for it. Want to use public funds? Then follow a non religious/secular curriculum. Want a religious education? Then go private." So, basically, what you're saying is that, if you're rich or a good teacher yourself, you can bring your children up the way you believe to be best but if you're poor and not that good at teaching kids yourself you have to bring them up the way someone else thinks is best. And this level of total intolerance will somehow make the world better? | |||
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"I'm not a so called atheist. I didn't argue against them for the reasons you suggest. I don't think there's any justification for the state to support schools pushing a religious agenda. Why? Because it ain't the job of the state to push religion on to children." But it is a fundamental human right to be allowed to bring your own children up the way you believe to be best and, so long as the state does not prefer one faith over another, why is it wrong for the people to be allowed choose what faith, if any, they wish to pass on to their children and choose a school that will help them to achieve that? | |||
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"I really don't see the problem here. If you don't like faith schools then don't send your kid to one. It's not like anyone is forcing people to send their kids to a faith school if they don't want to. What the argument of those who think faith schools should be banned or closed seems to be is that everyone should be forced to bring up their kids only according to what atheist think is right; that people should not be allowed to bring up their own children in the way and accordingly to their beliefs. I don't know what sort of world these so called atheist want to create but it seems to me like it would be a pretty intolerant and intolerable one for most normal people to live in. I'm not a so called atheist. I didn't argue against them for the reasons you suggest. I don't think there's any justification for the state to support schools pushing a religious agenda. Why? Not the most objective reply ? " It's not a reply at all, it's a question. " children deserve not to be manipulated to believe " No more or less then they deserve to be manipulated not to believe. " Out of 6 regions at most only one doctrine could be right at most " Or possibly even none! " Far better to teach about rather teach something is " Far better to teach religion as religion, sciences as sciences and arts as arts but be clear about where one ends and the other begins. | |||
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"I'm not a so called atheist. I didn't argue against them for the reasons you suggest. I don't think there's any justification for the state to support schools pushing a religious agenda. Why? Because it ain't the job of the state to push religion on to children. Unfortunately it HAS been the job of the state to push religion on children for hundreds of years and in some areas/communities it still goes on. You make me giggle with your disdain for geology In my opinion It's one of the most revealing and fascinating subjects Visit mountains geology expands the pleasure , go to the coast geology expands the pleasure , hear about volcanos or earthquakes , it helps our understanding we the situation , tsunami makes more sense , go on holiday to am island , more pleasure , Any human that wants to understand the history of our planet and know why certain religious teachings are untrue , geology Crossing the Atlantic , understanding some geology will explain your questions if you are of enquiring mind Driven past stone henge , geology , been to Wales , geology , been to Dover, geology Telling a 7 year old a god exists bad " Telling your own child something you believe to be untrue would be bad but telling them what you believe to be true is not. " Telling them some think one of many exist , reasonable Telling them the cliffs of Dover were once under the Sea and are the francois of sea creatures , priceless , fascinating , and inspiring xxx " As part of science yes, as a tool to help them judge right from wrong, totally useless. " Telling a child to respect others is a human teaching and not exclusive to religions " The most important part of learning to respect others is also learning to respect others beliefs, something that seems to desperately lacking from most of the people on here wanting to ban faith schools and force their own secular view of the world on all. " It's the none sense beyond that which is needless " that's your idea of respecting's others? Calling what they believe nonsense! You should learn to practice what you breach. " Or maybe you would not want a child to understand volcanos or the Dover cliffs
It was geography rather than geology. Google "what can I do with a geography degree?" And the number 1 job is "become a geography teacher" - says it all really.
Again your diversion tactics are admirable xxx
Let's phrase it the other way
What benefit do you think I would have from being indoctrinated that a specific god concept is a belief I should hold
"I don't know what benefit you might gain from being indoctrinated about a specific god concept but as that's not what most faith schools do it's not really relevant. What you would benefit from is learning about respect for and tolerance of others, which is something that is taught at most faith schools and something you seem to me to seriously lack. " Let's be clear the benefits you give should be exclusive to a particular doctrine , so loving ones neighbours, sharing love, being selfless, modesty, etc are not included. " Why should they not be included? The fact they are common themes in many religions does not discount their worth from any. " You need to tell me how devoutly hoping a specific god exist would make me better or the world better " The only thing that makes people better is learning to accept others for who and what they are, including what they believe, and not trying to force your own view of the world on them and their children. " Granny feels better with a god crutch is not an answer " Trying to make others feel better is a pretty good place for start. You should try it. " She was not given the loving care to show her how she can be happy without a god concept . But I and many others prove otherwise " The only thing your proving in this thread is your own intolerance of others. " God is not shown to exist but only exists as a fairy tail meme." this is your 'respect for others' that you talked about coming through again is it? " So sad not to give our children the tool kit to survive planet earth and it's shit rather give them an un justified dream " I see no evidence that any, either on this thread or otherwise, who have been to faith schools are any less prepared or in anyway lack the tool kit required to survive, if anything quite the opposite. " So what does faith school teach that is non manipulative and is beneficial " Well they don't teach anything in my experience that is manipulative and the main thing they taught me was that what you believe is simply what you believe and so you should always show respect for all and there beliefs. In short, what faith schools seem to teach more than most non faiths schools would appear, rather surprisingly, to be tolerance. | |||
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"I'm not a so called atheist. I didn't argue against them for the reasons you suggest. I don't think there's any justification for the state to support schools pushing a religious agenda. Why? Because it ain't the job of the state to push religion on to children. But it is a fundamental human right to be allowed to bring your own children up the way you believe to be best and, so long as the state does not prefer one faith over another, why is it wrong for the people to be allowed choose what faith, if any, they wish to pass on to their children and choose a school that will help them to achieve that?" I already answered that: 'Because it ain't the job of the state to push religion on to children.' Though soon it won't matter because they'll all be academies and the state won't have any job to educate kids. | |||
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"I'm not a so called atheist. I didn't argue against them for the reasons you suggest. I don't think there's any justification for the state to support schools pushing a religious agenda. Why? Because it ain't the job of the state to push religion on to children. But it is a fundamental human right to be allowed to bring your own children up the way you believe to be best and, so long as the state does not prefer one faith over another, why is it wrong for the people to be allowed choose what faith, if any, they wish to pass on to their children and choose a school that will help them to achieve that? I already answered that: 'Because it ain't the job of the state to push religion on to children.' Though soon it won't matter because they'll all be academies and the state won't have any job to educate kids." There's the point in a nutshell, but most people don't realise the implications of letting schools become academies .... the impact on future generations. Its one thing to privatise the railways and the post office, white another to hand over the education of our children to carpet chains. Thank goodness my children are nearing the end of their education, but not the case for everyone ... | |||
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" Though soon it won't matter because they'll all be academies and the state won't have any job to educate kids." Shit imagine that, schools that aren't run by the state. They must be terrible places with awful results... | |||
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"shit, imagine that they start to charge for kids tuition fees "As opposed to state schools which are funded by the money that grows on trees | |||
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" Though soon it won't matter because they'll all be academies and the state won't have any job to educate kids. Shit imagine that, schools that aren't run by the state. They must be terrible places with awful results..." Shall we just throw in random rants now? Let's go with something like Forest Schools ruin the environment.. or how my studies of pollen analysis led to meeting my life long love.. or it's long overdue that school playing fields were converted to pay and display car parks.. | |||
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"shit, imagine that they start to charge for kids tuition fees
As opposed to state schools which are funded by the money that grows on trees"sounds like you're an early advocate of that idea | |||
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" Though soon it won't matter because they'll all be academies and the state won't have any job to educate kids. Shit imagine that, schools that aren't run by the state. They must be terrible places with awful results... Shall we just throw in random rants now? Let's go with something like Forest Schools ruin the environment.. or how my studies of pollen analysis led to meeting my life long love.. or it's long overdue that school playing fields were converted to pay and display car parks.." It's not random, just making the point that education has never benefited from political tinkering. I don't know why the state moving away from education should provide any gasps, it was never much good at education in the first place. | |||
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"The point I was alluding to was that while we might reasonably expect for a state provided education to be neutral of bias and ideologies.. we can't realistically expect that independent education providers will do so. " Have you actually been in both systems? I have, in my experience it works the other way around. Private schools actually have to deliver a service lest the parents send their children elsewhere. State schools are constantly being meddled with by politicans with agendas and the teachers own political views are not evenly distributed across the political spectrum. | |||
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"Academies are not private schools. If it puts your mind at ease, yes I have been into lots of schools, in lots of places. Sweden (upon which the free school stuff is based) have had interesting issues with religion in schools. It seems nonsense to me. If all schools were neutral of religion and religion were respected as a private and personal matter there could be no concern by anyone. To have the current hotchpotch of choice and provision makes no sense except by those with an ideological agenda to push." As I say, there's no shortage of ideology being pushed in state schools. It's just political rather than religious... | |||
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"I live 1.5 miles away from our "local primary ". Down unlit country lanes with no pavement. No school bus service. When I went to look around, I discovered it was a church aided school. I was a bit naive as to what that meant at the time, but all over the school were bible quotes and stories about God. Other viewpoints may have possibly been taught but it was sure evident which viewpoint was favoured. .... So, not having funds to go private and not wanting my child to be indoctrinated to that degree. ... I opted not to send her at all and taught her myself (with family assistance) to college age. I was very lucky to have this choice. Teach about religion by all means... but any sensible child will soon work out they can't all be right.... so probably none of them are
"I have no problem with religion being taught as a philosophy but to indoctrinate the kids and peddle unfounded claims upon them is quite wrong. | |||
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"With a Muslim dad and working myself in mainstream education I really object to most faith schools. All those apart from catholic schools who produce great results! " and this is the other reason they prevail. | |||
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"As I say, there's no shortage of ideology being pushed in state schools. It's just political rather than religious... " You've been in some curious schools. I don't see too many that have embraced Citizenship and 'British values' | |||
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