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Junior doctor strike.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Doctors walked out at 08:00am today and the strike will lasts to tomorrow, they are in a row with the government over the imposition of a new contract. Are they becoming as bad as the tube drivers going on strike? |
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Its amazing that if you work as a driver its illegal to work more that 8 hours and there has to be a set amount of hours between shifts by law for safety reasons... yet they want to make someone working in a hospital directly with people work days... |
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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago
Titz Towers, North Notts |
I think the actual doctors probably know better than a minister how things work. A decent compromise may be trialling the government's plans in a particular area, rather than just rolling them out.  |
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"I think the actual doctors probably know better than a minister how things work. A decent compromise may be trialling the government's plans in a particular area, rather than just rolling them out. "
Have you thought of standing as an MP ? Nah wouldn't work to many sensible ideas .  |
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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago
Titz Towers, North Notts |
"If they dont crack on with their jobs then eventually, someone else will do it for them,,
Who will?
I fully support them "
Yes, who else will do it?  It's not like anyone is going to go to see dodgy Dave about their heart bypass on account that he is an odd job man who can turn his hand to anything. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Nothing wrong with people striking for better working conditions.
I personally don't want to go back to the days where we worked for nothing but one meal a day and they begrudged us that. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If they dont crack on with their jobs then eventually, someone else will do it for them,,"
Who will? You? There's a massive recruitment crisis in parts of medical training and we have to import doctors from abroad to fill the gaps. If it's such a cushy number, you'd think all the jobs would be oversubscribed... |
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It is a tricky one this as both sides are saying it is more about patient care than money.
Hmmm, who should I believe , the thousands of junior doctors I am prepared to trust the lives of my loved ones with, or Jeremy Hunt? |
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Hunt was offered a deal to settle this, the employers would've accepted it as would the doctors, but Hunt vetoed it because it would've 'sent a signal'
In other words he wanted to be seen as the tough guy by not agreeing to a negotiated settlement and imposing one instead - so say thanks to jezza for your missed appointments
To be honest if I was offered the sort of pay cut they are being imposed I'd strike as well
To all those who say stuff them I just say I hope your private Heath insurance is pretty comprehensive because over the next few years you're going to need it |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I'm struck by how many people offer one-sided support to the doctors ,,,,,,
However I've yet too see anyone acknowledge a problem needs fixing and offer details of an alternate solution that provides a better deal for doctors and patients and tax payers ......
It's easy to pick sides but less easy to offer workable answers .....
I hope common sense prevails ,,,,, but that will require a fair amount of give and take from all sides and only work efficiently if everyone gets on the same side...
All working together for a better more efficient and cost effective NHS .....  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I absolutely support all workers in their right to strike if conditions become unmanageable. Thankfully gone are the days when we had to put up and shut up.
Too many chiefs in their ivory towers making unreasonable decisions.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I'm struck by how many people offer one-sided support to the doctors ,,,,,,
However I've yet too see anyone acknowledge a problem needs fixing and offer details of an alternate solution that provides a better deal for doctors and patients and tax payers ......
It's easy to pick sides but less easy to offer workable answers .....
I hope common sense prevails ,,,,, but that will require a fair amount of give and take from all sides and only work efficiently if everyone gets on the same side...
All working together for a better more efficient and cost effective NHS ..... "
I thought the deal that was on the table that the BMA would have signed up to and the employers would have signed up to and would have delivered most of what Mr Hunt wants was the answer. The other parties gave in on some aspects, he wouldn't give in on any and that's why there's a third strike. Seems to me like it was nearly there, and there was really no need for this.
One of the fundamental things is that if you reduce antisocial hours payments then you're going to hit recruitment to those specialties even more. So A&E, anaesthetics etc will have even more unfilled vacancies. And what does that mean? Locums. One thing that never seems to be grasped is that if you piss your staff and potential future staff off so much, you will end up paying through the nose to buy the services in via agencies.
It's happened throughout the public sector over the last 5 years or so and its an increasing problem for NHS budgets at the moment. It was a massive issue in social work a few years back which had to be addressed by improving the salary. Ditto teaching recruitment. It's causing big problems in some of the professional specialities like high level project management, because people who have the appropriate skills don't want to have a massive pay cut and be subjected to enormous public scrutiny and derision to work for the government.
I'll be amazed if this saves much off the total NHS budget at all. It'll just divert spend from employees to agencies... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I'm pretty sure the doctors aren't striking for the hell of it. The right to strike is a right we should protect at all costs as it acts as a counterbalance to the decreasing rights of employees under this government. Good luck to them. Sooner the government gives way, the better but suspect it will be a long haul, as the Tories won't want to be seen to give way, for fear of other action in other areas |
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By *eavenNhellCouple
over a year ago
carrbrook stalybridge |
"Doctors walked out at 08:00am today and the strike will lasts to tomorrow, they are in a row with the government over the imposition of a new contract. Are they becoming as bad as the tube drivers going on strike?"
do you mean the Tube drivers who have just voted to accept the new revised offer from LUL thats suited them better and means they dont lose out ? its called standing up for your self and your fellow employees its why they have some of the best pay and conditions in all the transport industrys compare them with HGV drivers who would undercut each other at the drop of a hat hence very poor wages and conditions for them some of them earning little more than the minimum wage
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By *olgateMan
over a year ago
on the road to nowhere in particular |
"Doctors walked out at 08:00am today and the strike will lasts to tomorrow, they are in a row with the government over the imposition of a new contract. Are they becoming as bad as the tube drivers going on strike?do you mean the Tube drivers who have just voted to accept the new revised offer from LUL thats suited them better and means they dont lose out ? its called standing up for your self and your fellow employees its why they have some of the best pay and conditions in all the transport industrys compare them with HGV drivers who would undercut each other at the drop of a hat hence very poor wages and conditions for them some of them earning little more than the minimum wage "
 |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The conspiracy theory is that all the doctors leave and the NHS collapses. "
THere is an association/body that GP's subscribe too and a mass resignation in protest at Hunt has been discussed as a last resort |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It is a tricky one this as both sides are saying it is more about patient care than money.
Hmmm, who should I believe , the thousands of junior doctors I am prepared to trust the lives of my loved ones with, or Jeremy Hunt?"
Its not just the NHS, they may be the ones making the stand but pretty much the whole of the NHS back the junior doctors and are against Hunt. When Hunt said he was imposing the deal heads of trusts were publicly distancing themselves from the decision
It's probably worth remembering that Hunt personally vetoed a resolution that both sides felt was acceptable |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Doctors walked out at 08:00am today and the strike will lasts to tomorrow, they are in a row with the government over the imposition of a new contract. Are they becoming as bad as the tube drivers going on strike?"
Absolutely not, at least they have the stomach and guts to stand up and fight against the government, good on them, not enough people in the UK have the bottle to stand together as one work force and stand up for their rights
most employees today wouldn't think twice on stabbing another employee in the back to suck up to a boss, an employee they consider a friend too.
Well done junior doctors |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Doctors walked out at 08:00am today and the strike will lasts to tomorrow, they are in a row with the government over the imposition of a new contract. Are they becoming as bad as the tube drivers going on strike?do you mean the Tube drivers who have just voted to accept the new revised offer from LUL thats suited them better and means they dont lose out ? its called standing up for your self and your fellow employees its why they have some of the best pay and conditions in all the transport industrys compare them with HGV drivers who would undercut each other at the drop of a hat hence very poor wages and conditions for them some of them earning little more than the minimum wage "
Yes the lul and as well the night tube, it is good they stand up for themselves and also the doctors, lets hope they can get something good from the contracts and working hours.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If they dont crack on with their jobs then eventually, someone else will do it for them,,
Who will?
I fully support them "
Plenty,,there are doctors from other Euro countries who would love the experience of working in the NHS. Many already do so.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If they dont crack on with their jobs then eventually, someone else will do it for them,,
Who?!! I wouldn't, it'd be a pay cut and I don't have someone's life in my hand."
Other professions with a lot more life in their hands have endured similar economic pressures. It isnt just yer tradesmen who feel the cold wind around their ankles any more.
Try being an airline pilot these days. Many have to fork out fortunes for their own training/type approval etc and then scrat around for a job to get experience/hours under their belts.
Thats the person in charge of a multimillion pound asset and a couple of hundred people in the back. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If they dont crack on with their jobs then eventually, someone else will do it for them,,
Who will?
I fully support them
Plenty,,there are doctors from other Euro countries who would love the experience of working in the NHS. Many already do so.."
Those bloody British doctors staying over here and taking cheaper foreigners jobs. |
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By *olgateMan
over a year ago
on the road to nowhere in particular |
"If they dont crack on with their jobs then eventually, someone else will do it for them,,
Who will?
I fully support them
Plenty,,there are doctors from other Euro countries who would love the experience of working in the NHS. Many already do so.."
Plenty of deaths and serious disciplinary matters and malpractice cases from foreign doctors who can't speak English. Do you seriously want more of the same? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Much as I sympathise with doctors as well as any other low paid workers, there really is no money left. The country is over 1.5 trillion in debt as an estimate. This debt can never be repaid as it is not money what banks print but debt as is is loaned to us with interest. Therefore the system is unsustainable no matter what cuts the government makes and crashes happen now and again in order to reset the system. Too much to go into detail but basically it's a phony economic system based on fiat money as opposed to the gold standard and most likely it will become privatised and sold off like everything else, lower wages etc etc. |
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By *olgateMan
over a year ago
on the road to nowhere in particular |
"Much as I sympathise with doctors as well as any other low paid workers, there really is no money left. The country is over 1.5 trillion in debt as an estimate. This debt can never be repaid as it is not money what banks print but debt as is is loaned to us with interest. Therefore the system is unsustainable no matter what cuts the government makes and crashes happen now and again in order to reset the system. Too much to go into detail but basically it's a phony economic system based on fiat money as opposed to the gold standard and most likely it will become privatised and sold off like everything else, lower wages etc etc."
all the more reason to make Google, Amazon, Starbucks et al to pay their way in this country. Doctors are not overpaid by any stretch of the imagination. If they were paid the going rate less overpriced agency staff would be needed. None of it is rocket science
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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As an nhs worker fucks me of .. cut pay
Unsociable hours.. lets work double. I already do 12 n a half hour shifts but its not enough.. cut our pay up our hours i for one will be off.
And then where will England be.. no nurses n no drs.. we will all be working in Starbucks.. coz i for one will stick two fingers up.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"was at the hospital today and there was only a handful on the picket line
You are only allowed 4 people on a picket line at any one time by law."
Apologies, that's not true - but there are locally arranged agreements in each workplace. My own trust has agreed 4, others may be different. Doctors are not there to disrupt any emergencies. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If they dont crack on with their jobs then eventually, someone else will do it for them,,
Who will?
I fully support them
Plenty,,there are doctors from other Euro countries who would love the experience of working in the NHS. Many already do so.."
Where's the head-slap smiley? |
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"Hunt was offered a deal to settle this, the employers would've accepted it as would the doctors, but Hunt vetoed it because it would've 'sent a signal'
In other words he wanted to be seen as the tough guy by not agreeing to a negotiated settlement and imposing one instead - so say thanks to jezza for your missed appointments
To be honest if I was offered the sort of pay cut they are being imposed I'd strike as well
To all those who say stuff them I just say I hope your private Heath insurance is pretty comprehensive because over the next few years you're going to need it"
That is what the Tories want any way. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If they dont crack on with their jobs then eventually, someone else will do it for them,,
Who will?
I fully support them
Plenty,,there are doctors from other Euro countries who would love the experience of working in the NHS. Many already do so..
Plenty of deaths and serious disciplinary matters and malpractice cases from foreign doctors who can't speak English. Do you seriously want more of the same?"
Can you substantiate that in any way? |
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By *olgateMan
over a year ago
on the road to nowhere in particular |
"If they dont crack on with their jobs then eventually, someone else will do it for them,,
Who will?
I fully support them
Plenty,,there are doctors from other Euro countries who would love the experience of working in the NHS. Many already do so..
Plenty of deaths and serious disciplinary matters and malpractice cases from foreign doctors who can't speak English. Do you seriously want more of the same?
Can you substantiate that in any way?"
Google it if you like, highest profile case was an African doctor based in Germany that moonlighted as a locum over here at weekends. Killed a patient, found guilty. Can't be struck off because BMA has no jurisdiction in Germany. Dr Daniel Ubani |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Hunt was offered a deal to settle this, the employers would've accepted it as would the doctors, but Hunt vetoed it because it would've 'sent a signal'
In other words he wanted to be seen as the tough guy by not agreeing to a negotiated settlement and imposing one instead - so say thanks to jezza for your missed appointments
To be honest if I was offered the sort of pay cut they are being imposed I'd strike as well
To all those who say stuff them I just say I hope your private Heath insurance is pretty comprehensive because over the next few years you're going to need it
That is what the Tories want any way."
I don't think that a Tory v Labour debate is terribly helpful.
We know what Mr Blair did.
The role of Health Minister is renowned as a bitter pill.
I think the problem is lack of personnel. If you have 100 people, trying to get staffing 7 days a week is going to be impossible.
There is no short term fix. The long term fix is obvious.
Still uncertain as to the issue preventing an agreement at the moment though. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If they dont crack on with their jobs then eventually, someone else will do it for them,,
Who will?
I fully support them
Plenty,,there are doctors from other Euro countries who would love the experience of working in the NHS. Many already do so..
Plenty of deaths and serious disciplinary matters and malpractice cases from foreign doctors who can't speak English. Do you seriously want more of the same?
Can you substantiate that in any way?
Google it if you like, highest profile case was an African doctor based in Germany that moonlighted as a locum over here at weekends. Killed a patient, found guilty. Can't be struck off because BMA has no jurisdiction in Germany. Dr Daniel Ubani"
Oh I can easily find examples. And just as easily find cases of British born and english speaking doctors. I'm just wondering how you are quantifying that there are 'plenty of examples'?
And are you honestly saying that there are doctors who can't speak English? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If they dont crack on with their jobs then eventually, someone else will do it for them,,
Who will? You? There's a massive recruitment crisis in parts of medical training and we have to import doctors from abroad to fill the gaps. If it's such a cushy number, you'd think all the jobs would be oversubscribed..."
Well if it's not a cushy number why do doctors want to come from abroad to fill the gaps? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Well if it's not a cushy number why do doctors want to come from abroad to fill the gaps?"
They come for the cash. And leave the countries they come from under-resourced in their health care systems as a result. |
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By *uby0000Woman
over a year ago
hertfordshire |
"was at the hospital today and there was only a handful on the picket line
You are only allowed 4 people on a picket line at any one time by law."
didn't know that thanks
if I haven't confirmed an appointment am I still expected to go its a sort of hospital question |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"if u don't like /enjoy your job conditions rules contract etc etc ,have balls and walk away.is 43k a year that bad ,?????.....get to work ...wont be long before public support fails"
they have walked away - they're doing that right now!
Don't work so well without 'em, does it?! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If they dont crack on with their jobs then eventually, someone else will do it for them,,
Who will? You? There's a massive recruitment crisis in parts of medical training and we have to import doctors from abroad to fill the gaps. If it's such a cushy number, you'd think all the jobs would be oversubscribed...
Well if it's not a cushy number why do doctors want to come from abroad to fill the gaps?"
What do you think average salaries are like in Hungary? Romania? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If they dont crack on with their jobs then eventually, someone else will do it for them,,
Who will? You? There's a massive recruitment crisis in parts of medical training and we have to import doctors from abroad to fill the gaps. If it's such a cushy number, you'd think all the jobs would be oversubscribed...
Well if it's not a cushy number why do doctors want to come from abroad to fill the gaps?
What do you think average salaries are like in Hungary? Romania? "
What's that got to do with it? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"if u don't like /enjoy your job conditions rules contract etc etc ,have balls and walk away.is 43k a year that bad ,?????.....get to work ...wont be long before public support fails"
So they should all just "get new jobs"? All of them? Because the point is the job conditions rules contract etc etc that they've all been working under is being changed. Dunno where you've got £43k from but I certainly wouldn't take that pay cut for a job that held such antisocial hours and level of responsibility. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"was at the hospital today and there was only a handful on the picket line
You are only allowed 4 people on a picket line at any one time by law.
didn't know that thanks
if I haven't confirmed an appointment am I still expected to go its a sort of hospital question"
Check with the hospital - there are plenty of consultant or other staff-lead clinics still operating. |
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Good luck to the doctors and hope this proves that the government can't do what they want.
I'm an ex miner and was on strike for the whole year in 84-85
Maggie was determined to beat us after the 74 strike and would have bankrupted the country to do so
The doctors are more powerful than us the miners ever were |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If they dont crack on with their jobs then eventually, someone else will do it for them,,
Who will? You? There's a massive recruitment crisis in parts of medical training and we have to import doctors from abroad to fill the gaps. If it's such a cushy number, you'd think all the jobs would be oversubscribed...
Well if it's not a cushy number why do doctors want to come from abroad to fill the gaps?
What do you think average salaries are like in Hungary? Romania?
What's that got to do with it?"
That's the type of countries where the doctors coming from abroad and filling the gaps are coming from. Are you being deliberately obtuse?
Ok, how about India? Poland? Iraq? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If they dont crack on with their jobs then eventually, someone else will do it for them,,
Who will? You? There's a massive recruitment crisis in parts of medical training and we have to import doctors from abroad to fill the gaps. If it's such a cushy number, you'd think all the jobs would be oversubscribed...
Well if it's not a cushy number why do doctors want to come from abroad to fill the gaps?
What do you think average salaries are like in Hungary? Romania?
What's that got to do with it?
That's the type of countries where the doctors coming from abroad and filling the gaps are coming from. Are you being deliberately obtuse?
Ok, how about India? Poland? Iraq? "
So you are saying that our doctors have it better than in other countries then? |
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By *olgateMan
over a year ago
on the road to nowhere in particular |
"If they dont crack on with their jobs then eventually, someone else will do it for them,,
Who will?
I fully support them
Plenty,,there are doctors from other Euro countries who would love the experience of working in the NHS. Many already do so..
Plenty of deaths and serious disciplinary matters and malpractice cases from foreign doctors who can't speak English. Do you seriously want more of the same?
Can you substantiate that in any way?
Google it if you like, highest profile case was an African doctor based in Germany that moonlighted as a locum over here at weekends. Killed a patient, found guilty. Can't be struck off because BMA has no jurisdiction in Germany. Dr Daniel Ubani
Oh I can easily find examples. And just as easily find cases of British born and english speaking doctors. I'm just wondering how you are quantifying that there are 'plenty of examples'?
And are you honestly saying that there are doctors who can't speak English?"
I gave you an example of a foreign doctor working in this country that killed a patient that couldn't speak English. I am a lazy git at the best of times, I certainly don't intend to spend the rest of the night digging out all the other cases to prove a point I have already proven.
As I have already pointed out, there are plenty more examples where that one came from. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If they dont crack on with their jobs then eventually, someone else will do it for them,,
Who will? You? There's a massive recruitment crisis in parts of medical training and we have to import doctors from abroad to fill the gaps. If it's such a cushy number, you'd think all the jobs would be oversubscribed...
Well if it's not a cushy number why do doctors want to come from abroad to fill the gaps?
What do you think average salaries are like in Hungary? Romania?
What's that got to do with it?
That's the type of countries where the doctors coming from abroad and filling the gaps are coming from. Are you being deliberately obtuse?
Ok, how about India? Poland? Iraq?
So you are saying that our doctors have it better than in other countries then?"
I'm saying that a doctor in the UK gets paid more than a doctor in those countries. As does pretty much every job in the entire economy.
"UK doctors get paid more than doctors in Iraq!" Shocking news, they must be incredibly overpaid, the greedy gits.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If they dont crack on with their jobs then eventually, someone else will do it for them,,
Who will? You? There's a massive recruitment crisis in parts of medical training and we have to import doctors from abroad to fill the gaps. If it's such a cushy number, you'd think all the jobs would be oversubscribed...
Well if it's not a cushy number why do doctors want to come from abroad to fill the gaps?
What do you think average salaries are like in Hungary? Romania?
What's that got to do with it?
That's the type of countries where the doctors coming from abroad and filling the gaps are coming from. Are you being deliberately obtuse?
Ok, how about India? Poland? Iraq?
So you are saying that our doctors have it better than in other countries then?
I'm saying that a doctor in the UK gets paid more than a doctor in those countries. As does pretty much every job in the entire economy.
"UK doctors get paid more than doctors in Iraq!" Shocking news, they must be incredibly overpaid, the greedy gits.
"
But surely it's relevant to the cost of living isn't it? |
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"If they dont crack on with their jobs then eventually, someone else will do it for them,,
Who will? You? There's a massive recruitment crisis in parts of medical training and we have to import doctors from abroad to fill the gaps. If it's such a cushy number, you'd think all the jobs would be oversubscribed...
Well if it's not a cushy number why do doctors want to come from abroad to fill the gaps?
What do you think average salaries are like in Hungary? Romania?
What's that got to do with it?
That's the type of countries where the doctors coming from abroad and filling the gaps are coming from. Are you being deliberately obtuse?
Ok, how about India? Poland? Iraq? "
So are saying it's an acceptable government policy to treat our doctors so bad they leave as long as we can replace them with foreign doctors who're happy to take the rubbish conditions? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's all relevant which is why British doctors are going to New Zealand USA and Australia, better conditions and better quality of life. "
Are they? Well why don't the Romanians/Hungarians or whoever as mentioned just go straight to those countries? |
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By *olgateMan
over a year ago
on the road to nowhere in particular |
"It's all relevant which is why British doctors are going to New Zealand USA and Australia, better conditions and better quality of life.
Are they? Well why don't the Romanians/Hungarians or whoever as mentioned just go straight to those countries?"
Because they can't speak good enough English |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's all relevant which is why British doctors are going to New Zealand USA and Australia, better conditions and better quality of life.
Are they? Well why don't the Romanians/Hungarians or whoever as mentioned just go straight to those countries?"
So you are saying that all jobs - no matter how highly trained - in this country should be open to a globalised capital market? Whoever is willing to come and do the job the cheapest should come in order to drive down wages?
Should we replace teachers with the cheapest available to jolt them out of their cushy lifestyles? How about military personnel? Judges? Nurses?
Is any profession open to be driven to the bottom of wages and conditions?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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As far as I can see it, this boils down to Junior Doctors not wanting to be rostered to work a weekend and lose out on their overtime. I cannot see anywhere where where anyone has said that they won't have time off elsewhere, like in the week.... Oh, and don't forget that they're being offered a 13.5% pay increase to level it all out.
I have to work the occasional weekend, and I get a day off before, and a day off after. I also had to sign out of the Working Time Directive when I signed my contract. My company still has a responsibility to look after my health and wellbeing as much as they can and don't demand that I work 12 days straight.
We need a 7 day a week NHS, the death rates at weekends are unacceptable - if you had a family member admitted at the weekend that died due to lack of staff, you wouldn't be so quick to support what I think isn't an unreasonable request.
The other topic about getting pay band increases just for length of service is also outmoded. You shouldn't be rewarded just because you managed to stick it for another year. Pay increases in line with additional qualifications and experiences are a better idea. |
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By *olgateMan
over a year ago
on the road to nowhere in particular |
I don't want to be seen by a doctor that has already worked 70 hours thanks, I don't care how many days off he gets afterwards. Incidentally, the figures about higher deaths at the weekend have already been discredited as a load of bollocks |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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good on them the goverment wants them to work weekends too and back to a 70 to 90 hour week... no way do you want a doctor falling asleep as he treats you |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I don't want to be seen by a doctor that has already worked 70 hours thanks, I don't care how many days off he gets afterwards. Incidentally, the figures about higher deaths at the weekend have already been discredited as a load of bollocks"
Really? The BMJ making stuff up? I can't see that somehow.
And you get days off before you work the weekend. If you can't work a simple rota out, maybe they shouldn't be doctors. The actual time worked is no different, other than they don't get paid a premium for the Saturday. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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if the goverment wants full weekend cover then it should employ more doctors
doctors have put in the last 2 years to leave uk than last 20 ..out of all the newly qualified doctors ony 25% are in work the goverment should hang its heaD IN DISGRACE |
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By *olgateMan
over a year ago
on the road to nowhere in particular |
A deal was agreed between the BMA and the employers. Then Jeremy Hunt came along and scuppered it.
Why should someone work on Saturday for less money this year than they got last year? Explain how that is a raise? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"As far as I can see it, this boils down to Junior Doctors not wanting to be rostered to work a weekend and lose out on their overtime. I cannot see anywhere where where anyone has said that they won't have time off elsewhere, like in the week.... Oh, and don't forget that they're being offered a 13.5% pay increase to level it all out.
I have to work the occasional weekend, and I get a day off before, and a day off after. I also had to sign out of the Working Time Directive when I signed my contract. My company still has a responsibility to look after my health and wellbeing as much as they can and don't demand that I work 12 days straight.
We need a 7 day a week NHS, the death rates at weekends are unacceptable - if you had a family member admitted at the weekend that died due to lack of staff, you wouldn't be so quick to support what I think isn't an unreasonable request.
The other topic about getting pay band increases just for length of service is also outmoded. You shouldn't be rewarded just because you managed to stick it for another year. Pay increases in line with additional qualifications and experiences are a better idea. "
If the aim of this is to deliver a 7 day NHS (which already exists, btw, the stuff around weekend death rates is an appalling manupulation of statistics) then explain how that will be done at cost neutral? Either you have the same number of doctors working a shitload more hours, or more doctors being paid significantly less. The government is claiming neither of these is the case and, as a numbers bod, that's where they've lost their argument with me entirely because it just doesn't add up. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"As far as I can see it, this boils down to Junior Doctors not wanting to be rostered to work a weekend and lose out on their overtime. I cannot see anywhere where where anyone has said that they won't have time off elsewhere, like in the week.... Oh, and don't forget that they're being offered a 13.5% pay increase to level it all out.
I have to work the occasional weekend, and I get a day off before, and a day off after. I also had to sign out of the Working Time Directive when I signed my contract. My company still has a responsibility to look after my health and wellbeing as much as they can and don't demand that I work 12 days straight.
We need a 7 day a week NHS, the death rates at weekends are unacceptable - if you had a family member admitted at the weekend that died due to lack of staff, you wouldn't be so quick to support what I think isn't an unreasonable request.
The other topic about getting pay band increases just for length of service is also outmoded. You shouldn't be rewarded just because you managed to stick it for another year. Pay increases in line with additional qualifications and experiences are a better idea.
If the aim of this is to deliver a 7 day NHS (which already exists, btw, the stuff around weekend death rates is an appalling manupulation of statistics) then explain how that will be done at cost neutral? Either you have the same number of doctors working a shitload more hours, or more doctors being paid significantly less. The government is claiming neither of these is the case and, as a numbers bod, that's where they've lost their argument with me entirely because it just doesn't add up. "
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The government is claiming neither of these is the case and, as a numbers bod, that's where they've lost their argument with me entirely because it just doesn't add up. "
You need to get yourself a capitalist calculator |
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By *razedcatMan
over a year ago
London / Herts |
I appreciate that doctors are in high demand, but forcing juniors to work extra hours for little remuneration is unacceptable. The quality of service will inevitably suffer, and costly mistakes will be made.
What's more, they already have a remarkably challenging job that only became available to them by way of years of hard studying. A meritocratic balance must be struck.
Cut MPs wages and increase the pay offered to juniors further, perhaps? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"As far as I can see it, this boils down to Junior Doctors not wanting to be rostered to work a weekend and lose out on their overtime. I cannot see anywhere where where anyone has said that they won't have time off elsewhere, like in the week.... Oh, and don't forget that they're being offered a 13.5% pay increase to level it all out.
I have to work the occasional weekend, and I get a day off before, and a day off after. I also had to sign out of the Working Time Directive when I signed my contract. My company still has a responsibility to look after my health and wellbeing as much as they can and don't demand that I work 12 days straight.
We need a 7 day a week NHS, the death rates at weekends are unacceptable - if you had a family member admitted at the weekend that died due to lack of staff, you wouldn't be so quick to support what I think isn't an unreasonable request.
The other topic about getting pay band increases just for length of service is also outmoded. You shouldn't be rewarded just because you managed to stick it for another year. Pay increases in line with additional qualifications and experiences are a better idea. "
Let's just use a bit of logic here. Say you're right and that's what we need to do.
We need more staff at the weekend. Where are we going to get them from? I know, we'll make some of the weekday staff do weekend shifts. Problem sorted, this ridiculous made up statistic of more deaths at the weekend is no longer a problem.
Now we have a different problem. People are dying more during the week because there are staff shortages. But its probably just because they are all being lazy isn't it? Not because you've cut the staff numbers in the weekday team.
We've also got a problem because less people want to work in specialties with lots of overtime... The financial incentive to work in undersubscribed jobs like emergency medicine has been taken away. And if you combine that with an already unpleasant environment of four-hour wait targets and angry patients complaining noone has seen them for their sprained wrist whilst simultaneously performing CPR on a brain-dead mother-of-two, you've suddenly not got enough doctors.
Okay, so let's get some more doctors. We've got two options here; find trained doctors from abroad or train up some more ourselves. Apparently this thread has already decided foreign doctors are a no-go, so we'll need to train our own. Its five years at medical school, and applications are started at least a year in advance. We'll need to go into high schools and persuade 16-year olds they really want to become doctors for no incentive whatsoever. Job satisfaction? Try talking about that when your patients die because of lack of funding and then their relatives put in a complaint about you.
Congratulations, you've just broken the NHS. I hope you have private insurance.
(ps. It's the NHS which will have trained your privately employed doctors) |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The Juniors already work the additional hours, on top of their usual work to make up their money. They're already putting patients at risk if that's the argument.
I personally think that the gov. should push this through, but should have first turned their attention next to the appalling waste and ridiculous management structures that pervades the NHS.
They could use this to free up money for additional doctors, and bring back Ward Matrons. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The Juniors already work the additional hours, on top of their usual work to make up their money. They're already putting patients at risk if that's the argument.
I personally think that the gov. should push this through, but should have first turned their attention next to the appalling waste and ridiculous management structures that pervades the NHS.
They could use this to free up money for additional doctors, and bring back Ward Matrons. "
Can you explain what you mean by 'they already work the additional hours'? Or do you mean the hours they stay after their shifts end to ensure their patients get the care they need? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The Juniors already work the additional hours, on top of their usual work to make up their money. They're already putting patients at risk if that's the argument.
I personally think that the gov. should push this through, but should have first turned their attention next to the appalling waste and ridiculous management structures that pervades the NHS.
They could use this to free up money for additional doctors, and bring back Ward Matrons.
Can you explain what you mean by 'they already work the additional hours'? Or do you mean the hours they stay after their shifts end to ensure their patients get the care they need?"
No, I mean the hours that they work to top up their salaries. This dispute has never mentioned working additional hours, just moving them around and not being paid a premium for what for most is a normal working day - Saturday. |
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"If they dont crack on with their jobs then eventually, someone else will do it for them,,
Who will?
I fully support them
Plenty,,there are doctors from other Euro countries who would love the experience of working in the NHS. Many already do so..
Plenty of deaths and serious disciplinary matters and malpractice cases from foreign doctors who can't speak English. Do you seriously want more of the same?
Can you substantiate that in any way?
Google it if you like, highest profile case was an African doctor based in Germany that moonlighted as a locum over here at weekends. Killed a patient, found guilty. Can't be struck off because BMA has no jurisdiction in Germany. Dr Daniel Ubani
Oh I can easily find examples. And just as easily find cases of British born and english speaking doctors. I'm just wondering how you are quantifying that there are 'plenty of examples'?
And are you honestly saying that there are doctors who can't speak English?"
Yep, I worked with quite a few. They also don't understand how our culture works and are stopped time and time again from making mistakes.
For some non EU doctors, women patients are treated with distain and little respect. I was once reported for kicking an uninvited doctor out of a quiet birthing room, invading privacy so much the woman shook with fear. He accused me of being racist. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The Juniors already work the additional hours, on top of their usual work to make up their money. They're already putting patients at risk if that's the argument.
I personally think that the gov. should push this through, but should have first turned their attention next to the appalling waste and ridiculous management structures that pervades the NHS.
They could use this to free up money for additional doctors, and bring back Ward Matrons.
Can you explain what you mean by 'they already work the additional hours'? Or do you mean the hours they stay after their shifts end to ensure their patients get the care they need?
No, I mean the hours that they work to top up their salaries. This dispute has never mentioned working additional hours, just moving them around and not being paid a premium for what for most is a normal working day - Saturday. "
Exactly my point. Where are you planning on getting these weekend working doctors? Ah yes, you're taking them off the weekday shift. How does that help anyone?
Also, please check your sources for your information. The weekend deaths thing is a false manipulation of statistics by Jeremy Hunt. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The Juniors already work the additional hours, on top of their usual work to make up their money. They're already putting patients at risk if that's the argument.
I personally think that the gov. should push this through, but should have first turned their attention next to the appalling waste and ridiculous management structures that pervades the NHS.
They could use this to free up money for additional doctors, and bring back Ward Matrons.
Can you explain what you mean by 'they already work the additional hours'? Or do you mean the hours they stay after their shifts end to ensure their patients get the care they need?
No, I mean the hours that they work to top up their salaries. This dispute has never mentioned working additional hours, just moving them around and not being paid a premium for what for most is a normal working day - Saturday.
Exactly my point. Where are you planning on getting these weekend working doctors? Ah yes, you're taking them off the weekday shift. How does that help anyone?
Also, please check your sources for your information. The weekend deaths thing is a false manipulation of statistics by Jeremy Hunt. "
All reform has to start somewhere - it's simple, it has to change. |
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"The Juniors already work the additional hours, on top of their usual work to make up their money. They're already putting patients at risk if that's the argument.
I personally think that the gov. should push this through, but should have first turned their attention next to the appalling waste and ridiculous management structures that pervades the NHS.
They could use this to free up money for additional doctors, and bring back Ward Matrons.
Can you explain what you mean by 'they already work the additional hours'? Or do you mean the hours they stay after their shifts end to ensure their patients get the care they need?
No, I mean the hours that they work to top up their salaries. This dispute has never mentioned working additional hours, just moving them around and not being paid a premium for what for most is a normal working day - Saturday.
Exactly my point. Where are you planning on getting these weekend working doctors? Ah yes, you're taking them off the weekday shift. How does that help anyone?
Also, please check your sources for your information. The weekend deaths thing is a false manipulation of statistics by Jeremy Hunt.
All reform has to start somewhere - it's simple, it has to change. "
The idea that you should do something stupid, counterproductive and won't work, just because something 'needs to be done' is ludicrous |
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lets get some more doctors from the eu here esp Spanish ones ....falling over them selves to work here for good money.....ps miners striker....yes that done you the world of good didn't it.....strikers never win long term.... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"lets get some more doctors from the eu here esp Spanish ones ....falling over them selves to work here for good money.....ps miners striker....yes that done you the world of good didn't it.....strikers never win long term...."
By your logic, what can employees do to get better working conditions??
No, the miners' strike didn't achieve its aims - but who benefitted from the Tories winning that long, hard battle? It decimated our local economy - and we have never recovered. Who won? And what did they win?
Perhaps if employers learned to treat workers in a better fashion, we'd all then win |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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In a hospital, there are X number of doctors.
It may be a good idea to have more in at a cheaper price at the weekend.
But when all is said and done, there are still only X doctors. There will then be less during the week.
The only solution is ... employ more doctors. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Fair play to 'em. Striking is the last resort. They've tried negotiating, but the government don't want to know. They have my support, for what it's worth. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If they dont crack on with their jobs then eventually, someone else will do it for them,,
Who will? You? There's a massive recruitment crisis in parts of medical training and we have to import doctors from abroad to fill the gaps. If it's such a cushy number, you'd think all the jobs would be oversubscribed...
Well if it's not a cushy number why do doctors want to come from abroad to fill the gaps?
What do you think average salaries are like in Hungary? Romania?
What's that got to do with it?"
Lololololol. I hope you're not a doctor. |
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By *eavenNhellCouple
over a year ago
carrbrook stalybridge |
"lets get some more doctors from the eu here esp Spanish ones ....falling over them selves to work here for good money.....ps miners striker....yes that done you the world of good didn't it.....strikers never win long term...."
except for train drivers thier safeties have massively increased due to them fighting for them haven't they just agreed a better deal with LUL over night tube working after going on strike but hey they never win
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"lets get some more doctors from the eu here esp Spanish ones ....falling over them selves to work here for good money.....ps miners striker....yes that done you the world of good didn't it.....strikers never win long term...."
Not like you to be pro-immigration... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Doctors walked out at 08:00am today and the strike will lasts to tomorrow, they are in a row with the government over the imposition of a new contract. Are they becoming as bad as the tube drivers going on strike?
Absolutely not, at least they have the stomach and guts to stand up and fight against the government, good on them, not enough people in the UK have the bottle to stand together as one work force and stand up for their rights
most employees today wouldn't think twice on stabbing another employee in the back to suck up to a boss, an employee they consider a friend too.
Well done junior doctors "
+ |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Death of a thousand cuts with this government! I am fully behind the doctors.. Hunt is just being an arsehole after vetoing a settled deal. There has to be a hidden agenda with this guy hunt. |
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By *aeBabeWoman
over a year ago
London |
My sister is a junior doctor as is my brother in law. I support them in their right to strike for a better contract. I use to work in the NHS, but now I'm in the private sector. Both have their issues. |
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"If they dont crack on with their jobs then eventually, someone else will do it for them,,
Who will?
I fully support them
Plenty,,there are doctors from other Euro countries who would love the experience of working in the NHS. Many already do so..
Plenty of deaths and serious disciplinary matters and malpractice cases from foreign doctors who can't speak English. Do you seriously want more of the same?
Can you substantiate that in any way?
Google it if you like, highest profile case was an African doctor based in Germany that moonlighted as a locum over here at weekends. Killed a patient, found guilty. Can't be struck off because BMA has no jurisdiction in Germany. Dr Daniel Ubani"
...I am pretty certain the GMC (not BMA) would have removed him from the register...
...he was actually reasonably clever by reporting himself to the german authorities and was subsequently trialled and sentenced ...if I remember correctly, well before the UK coroner had concluded his case...hence he couldn't be trialled in the UK for the same offence anymore...
...loosing your licence in germany is almost impossible - unless you are convicted of murder..
...this guy used a drug, that he was not familiar with, since it is neither licensed nor used in germany ...more incompetence than a language problem in my opinion..
...his secondary schooling was in nigeria btw ...in english funnily enough... |
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By *olgateMan
over a year ago
on the road to nowhere in particular |
I notice the OP changed his stance when the majority of opinion backed the doctors. I fully backed them then, I fully back them now. I do not condone this governments attitude towards junior doctors, London Underground staff. Licensed taxi drivers or anyone else. My political leanings are not towards the left but I can see the country heading towards a revolution. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I notice the OP changed his stance when the majority of opinion backed the doctors. I fully backed them then, I fully back them now. I do not condone this governments attitude towards junior doctors, London Underground staff. Licensed taxi drivers or anyone else. My political leanings are not towards the left but I can see the country heading towards a revolution. "
A revolution, no. But I suspect Cameron's time will soon be up. The government is now being seen for the heartless bastards they are - the Budget fiasco and the clash with Doctors have shown this. I expect a leadership challenge soon after the referendum. Shame people didn't see the obvious prior to the last election. We have several years left of Tory misrule |
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"I notice the OP changed his stance when the majority of opinion backed the doctors. I fully backed them then, I fully back them now. I do not condone this governments attitude towards junior doctors, London Underground staff. Licensed taxi drivers or anyone else. My political leanings are not towards the left but I can see the country heading towards a revolution.
A revolution, no. But I suspect Cameron's time will soon be up. The government is now being seen for the heartless bastards they are - the Budget fiasco and the clash with Doctors have shown this. I expect a leadership challenge soon after the referendum. Shame people didn't see the obvious prior to the last election. We have several years left of Tory misrule"
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By *olgateMan
over a year ago
on the road to nowhere in particular |
The problem is that the political system with career politicians means there is no diversity or experience outside of Whitehall.
That is why so many policies are similar on either side of the chamber.
It's also why in my opinion, a change of leadership won't change much on policy |
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"The problem is that the political system with career politicians means there is no diversity or experience outside of Whitehall.
That is why so many policies are similar on either side of the chamber.
It's also why in my opinion, a change of leadership won't change much on policy"
sadly i have to agree |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I notice the OP changed his stance when the majority of opinion backed the doctors. I fully backed them then, I fully back them now. I do not condone this governments attitude towards junior doctors, London Underground staff. Licensed taxi drivers or anyone else. My political leanings are not towards the left but I can see the country heading towards a revolution.
A revolution, no. But I suspect Cameron's time will soon be up. The government is now being seen for the heartless bastards they are - the Budget fiasco and the clash with Doctors have shown this. I expect a leadership challenge soon after the referendum. Shame people didn't see the obvious prior to the last election. We have several years left of Tory misrule"
I do like how it's going now. This time last year some people were openly defending the tories for their heartless stuff. Now they can't. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"op, would you like a doctor to treat you that has worked 70 hours plus or a doctor that has worked a reasonable number of hours.
"
I would say a numbers of hours but wouldn't mind the 70, it depends what operation you would have. |
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"op, would you like a doctor to treat you that has worked 70 hours plus or a doctor that has worked a reasonable number of hours.
I would say a numbers of hours but wouldn't mind the 70, it depends what operation you would have."
Cock extension op.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"op, would you like a doctor to treat you that has worked 70 hours plus or a doctor that has worked a reasonable number of hours.
I would say a numbers of hours but wouldn't mind the 70, it depends what operation you would have."
if your happy for a doctor, falling asllep giving the wrong diagnosis and wrong medication, as they fall aslleep standing theen go for it, yes doctors make mistakes, but gees 70 hour a week plus wwill only increase this |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"op, would you like a doctor to treat you that has worked 70 hours plus or a doctor that has worked a reasonable number of hours.
I would say a numbers of hours but wouldn't mind the 70, it depends what operation you would have.
Cock extension op. "
I am pretty happy with mine, but yes someone with reasonable hours cos its a tricky operation I think, u? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If they dont crack on with their jobs then eventually, someone else will do it for them,,"
What....like a plumber?
It takes seven years to fully qualify as a doctor....where do you suggest they suddenly get replacements from?
And anyone else who would work regular 16 hour, back to back shifts and 80+ hours a week? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"op, would you like a doctor to treat you that has worked 70 hours plus or a doctor that has worked a reasonable number of hours.
I would say a numbers of hours but wouldn't mind the 70, it depends what operation you would have.
Cock extension op. I am pretty happy with mine, but yes someone with reasonable hours cos its a tricky operation I think, u?"
yes getting haribo's that have been lodged in your bum needs dedication and not a tired doctor |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"op, would you like a doctor to treat you that has worked 70 hours plus or a doctor that has worked a reasonable number of hours.
I would say a numbers of hours but wouldn't mind the 70, it depends what operation you would have.if your happy for a doctor, falling asllep giving the wrong diagnosis and wrong medication, as they fall aslleep standing theen go for it, yes doctors make mistakes, but gees 70 hour a week plus wwill only increase this"
That is right and yeah reasonable hours is best for the doctors as they can perform its best and give good advice for the patient. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Do you trust 98% (the overwhelming percentage that won the strike ballot) of the some of the most educated, dedicated and caring workers in this country or Cameron, Osborne and Hunt ?
The lies perpetuated by this Government have been simply shocking. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"What I don't understand is how can these doctors work 70 hours plus when the useless EU only allow a maximum of 48 hours?britain has certain opt outs"
Really? If I say I am only going to work for 48 hours a week my employer can force me to work more? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"What I don't understand is how can these doctors work 70 hours plus when the useless EU only allow a maximum of 48 hours?britain has certain opt outs
Really? If I say I am only going to work for 48 hours a week my employer can force me to work more?"
we have the mandoraty hours by law, but really, how many people would keep their jobs if they did not opt out |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"What I don't understand is how can these doctors work 70 hours plus when the useless EU only allow a maximum of 48 hours?britain has certain opt outs
Really? If I say I am only going to work for 48 hours a week my employer can force me to work more?we have the mandoraty hours by law, but really, how many people would keep their jobs if they did not opt out"
So all the doctors would be sacked if they did not opt out? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"What I don't understand is how can these doctors work 70 hours plus when the useless EU only allow a maximum of 48 hours?britain has certain opt outs
Really? If I say I am only going to work for 48 hours a week my employer can force me to work more?we have the mandoraty hours by law, but really, how many people would keep their jobs if they did not opt out
So all the doctors would be sacked if they did not opt out?"
i worked for teaco and you had to opt out as an employee through an agency or got no work
a think it depends on each employer, but a lot of agency work for hospital and having know a friend who worked with one the same applied |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"What I don't understand is how can these doctors work 70 hours plus when the useless EU only allow a maximum of 48 hours?britain has certain opt outs
Really? If I say I am only going to work for 48 hours a week my employer can force me to work more?we have the mandoraty hours by law, but really, how many people would keep their jobs if they did not opt out
So all the doctors would be sacked if they did not opt out?
i worked for teaco and you had to opt out as an employee through an agency or got no work
a think it depends on each employer, but a lot of agency work for hospital and having know a friend who worked with one the same applied"
Just saying, maybe the junior doctors are going about things the wrong way. Or maybe they enjoy the money extra hours brings |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Or maybe they have been forced into a position by a Government that has decided to impose a contract rejected by 98% of the workforce by foul means or fair. |
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"What I don't understand is how can these doctors work 70 hours plus when the useless EU only allow a maximum of 48 hours?britain has certain opt outs
Really? If I say I am only going to work for 48 hours a week my employer can force me to work more?we have the mandoraty hours by law, but really, how many people would keep their jobs if they did not opt out
So all the doctors would be sacked if they did not opt out?
i worked for teaco and you had to opt out as an employee through an agency or got no work
a think it depends on each employer, but a lot of agency work for hospital and having know a friend who worked with one the same applied
Just saying, maybe the junior doctors are going about things the wrong way. Or maybe they enjoy the money extra hours brings"
What other way would you advise?
They've tried talking, they've tried strikes but preserving emergency cover with the end result the government just ignored them anyway, how else would you suggest they get the government to listen? |
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"Just saying, maybe the junior doctors are going about things the wrong way. Or maybe they enjoy the money extra hours brings"
Really?
I think you may find they are now about to go about solving this dispute in exactly the right way. I have a feeling that when the doors to hospitals start closing because there are no doctors to deal with the sick and injured that Cunt and the government he represents will suddenly realise that they have gone too far. |
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By *olgateMan
over a year ago
on the road to nowhere in particular |
"Better for it to be the juniors than the seniors. I can put a plaster on myself."
i suggest you find out what a junior doctor actually is before you make crass comments like that.
Every doctor below consultant and that includes senior registrars is classed as a junior doctor. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I notice the OP changed his stance when the majority of opinion backed the doctors. I fully backed them then, I fully back them now. I do not condone this governments attitude towards junior doctors, London Underground staff. Licensed taxi drivers or anyone else. My political leanings are not towards the left but I can see the country heading towards a revolution. "
This government is cramming more and more people into London,yet they don't want to provide the services they need. I have no idea what it's like in other city's but my town,which is growing rapidly in numbers is becoming a nightmare. |
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"I notice the OP changed his stance when the majority of opinion backed the doctors. I fully backed them then, I fully back them now. I do not condone this governments attitude towards junior doctors, London Underground staff. Licensed taxi drivers or anyone else. My political leanings are not towards the left but I can see the country heading towards a revolution.
A revolution, no. But I suspect Cameron's time will soon be up. The government is now being seen for the heartless bastards they are - the Budget fiasco and the clash with Doctors have shown this. I expect a leadership challenge soon after the referendum. Shame people didn't see the obvious prior to the last election. We have several years left of Tory misrule
I do like how it's going now. This time last year some people were openly defending the tories for their heartless stuff. Now they can't."
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seriously?